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I COMPLETELY agree with Dr. Ramani. I forgave my narcissist ex and he cheated and deceived me again and again. And again. My forgiveness was license for him to keep hurting me. I remember when he begged and pleaded the last time for forgiveness, promising to change, and immediately screwed me over again. I don't believe there can actually be true forgiveness if the person who hurt you isn't actually sorry. One can move on without forgiving.
It is hardest to forgive those who DELIGHT in hurting you and with a grin tell you in a mocking tone, "I was JUST kidding/teasing/joking. And I LOVE you!" Abuse is NOT LOVE. It is contempt.
From my experience, forgiving narcissists can be very dangerous. Because when you forgive them there's a chance that you might allow them back into your life
No its advise to set You Free the other person doesn’t care . You release them and move forward unforgiveness hurts you and your body and mind . Why let someone who already hurt you continue to damage you? Let it go
@@stacymorales7806 No it doesnt set you free. That's just a lie and pop-psychology. And you don't need to "forgive" to move forward or live a happy life.
Letting go and moving on without carrying resentment is healthy healing. Forgiving a narcissist is once again putting the responsibility on the victim.
no, UNFORGIVING IS A SELF IMPOSED IMPRISONING, FOR GIVING RELEASES YOU FROM THE HOLD OF UNFORGIVING, WHAT IF THE OTHER PERSON DOES NOT CARE,WHAT WILL YOU DO?? UNFORGIVING CAUSES THE INFLUENCE OF THE OTHER PERSON TO CAUSE YOU TO MAKE POOR CHOICES AND ATTITUDES TO PEOPLE.
The English language can be so easily misused... To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment.
@@berniefynn6623 I strongly agree. Forgiveness is the what gave me true freedom. Specifically, recognizing the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I CAN forgive the person and not their behavior. I don't want to live like everyone is a narcissist or I'll never be able to be myself and be vulnerable which intimacy requires to some degree. Also it's a distinguishing characteristic that I'm very proud of, narcissist's can't forgive anyone and I refuse to have anything in common with them that I can avoid if at all possible. It feels like bitterness and I have more then enough to cary and manage. Be encouraged everyone. You don't have to forgive but it has been given me a great deal of peace is all I'm saying.
this awful psychiatrist told me if I did not forgive my mother my life would be horrible. My mother has done things to me that nearly killed me. HE was horrible. I am so glad for you, Dr. Ramani.
They don't always give the best advice. They're not in your position and haven't survived your experience. You make your own decisions. Toxic Parents by Susan Forward The Hoffman Process by John and Julie Gottman The Untethered Soul by Micheal Singer
If I may I would offer my advice - be happy that you survived, take courage and 'our power of will and move forward, to heal. Best of lucks from another survivor
@@-astrangerontheinternet6687so on point, but how could you report this and expect a good outcome for you? It's near impossible. So many doctors are narcs, that is best to keep on moving to the next doctor silently. In my opinion, commenting in public forums is better, bc it gets to future patients 👌 I know I had my share of nonsensical doctors already...
I cried (literally) when I read the title and saw the beginning of this video - 'No one ever feels that they have to forgive someone for hijacking their soul.' Such powerful words with a message that finally gives a sense of being understood. No nonsense about 'forgiveness is a moral duty to release you from a karmic circle' etc. Radical. Thank you, Dr Ramani.
@@victoryamartin9773 Too bad the catholic church wrote the books of the new testament. Do your research. You state that you're "terrified." The bible also says that "there is now no condemnation for those that are in Maschiach Yeshua, that have been called according to his purpose."Maybe you weren't called and that's why you're terrified.
@@victoryamartin9773 This is exactly why I found this video freeing and why I wrote, 'No nonsense about forgiveness is a moral duty to release you from a karmic circle'. Most 'man-made' religions (as opposed to authentic spirituality) are about control, moralism, and fear mongering. They weigh heavy on the soul. I want to walk a path that is freeing for the soul and this video definitely figures on this path :).
But please consider that the English language is often misused... Just type in the word FORGIVE ... ... To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment. Which state would you prefer?
Not forgiving is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. The bitterness only hurts you. I know from experience, It hurts and is bad for you're health. You can never see them again, avoid them,but to not forgive by letting go of the resentment is only hurting you. You cannot forget and heal if they anger is eating away at you. Forgiveness is letting go of the pain and anger. It's best for you're health.
I can never forgive my family for what they did nor will I ever forgive my ex narc for the pain and hurt he caused. I’ve written the ex off and it feels awesome. He doesn’t deserve a damn thing from me. As for family, my father has passed. I’m more upset he never apologized or knew what he put me thru. It is my choice to not forgive, especially when the pain has impacted my life and my trust in people. It has forever changed me. So forgiving will never remove the turmoil I have gone thru
She is so honest, and only People who have gone trough the Same for Years can relate and really Understand what she is talking about. Forgiving is a Personal decision, thanks DR. Ramani, Nobody is perfect! WE can only try hard to be the Best Version of ourself!!!!
No wonder I felt an overwhelming sense of repulsion and anger whenever I was told that I had to forgive to feel better. It’s like my body was reacting before my mind did.
Well said. Phoney forgiveness helps nobody. The universe operates on Truth and narcs are phoney people with phoney belief systems holding up phoney relationships. Forgiveness would be like throwing pearls to swine! Forgiveness and phoney Narcs simply don't gel and only victims get it. Victims whose inner cores detest falsehood simply deserve better! No more wasted time and wasted efforts-it's like a job that doesn't pay year after year. Victims whose inner cores detest falsehood simply deserve better! And that is the Truth!
When people have done unforgivable things to others (especially vulnerable children)....no forgiveness required. Narcissists don't ask for forgiveness because they don't do anything they think is wrong. Instead, they, quite often, consider themselves the"victim."
It's not popular psychology. It's actually quite spiritual and a requirement for a lot of things in life that unfortunately you won't get to experience until you do it
Why should you hurt when you know that the narcissist is a mentally ill man who does not have the function in his mind to be able to take responsibility and on the other hand he is a sadist who enjoys giving you pain? A narcissist does not function like a normative person, they are mad man
It’s definitely that inauthenticity that gets at me the most. I was being nothing but genuine 99.99%♾️ of the time and yet never got through to who the other person really was and my brain just has a lot of trouble computing these things.
"I'm sorry." "It won't happen again!" "What do you want me to do about it?" They say these things to put the responsibility of fixing the problem on you.
This is why I love Dr. Ramani. I am sooooo sick of forgiveness rhetoric and toxic positivity. Forgiving someone who isn't sorry does not help me in any way. It doesn't bring me any "peace" or make me feel like the "bigger person", it just makes me feel like a chump. I'm sick of hearing that anger is an unhealthy emotion too. Being angry at someone who abuses you IS healthy. It's indicative of self-love and strong boundaries. Until that person is truly remorseful and changes their behavior permanently, you do NOT have to forgive them. Hell even if they do apologize and change, you _still_ aren't obligated to forgive them. You are allowed to have a one-and-done policy for bad behavior, you can be totally done with someone after a single offense. The beauty of being autonomous creatures is we get to choose who we surround ourselves with 👌
This sounds exactly like Dr. R. speaking! The autonomous part is what I spent my life striving for. Only thousands of miles and passing of offenders finally set me free 💜🕊️
It's easy, and empty advice to say things like "forgiveness is for you!" But also why are we pretending like it's your duty to forgive greater wrongdoing. The logical extreme being "why are you obligated to forgive someone if they ran over your child driving home drunk?" If you can? That seems amazing. But I really can't blame people for not. And that's one end of the spectrum. What if they habitually, repeatedly wrong you? The only reason they say "I'm sorry" anyways is because then the ball is in your court and if you don't play nice then you are the antagonistic one. And then there's anger. There's a whole pretense of anger being a wrong emotion. An empty emotion. An invalid feeling. Because angry people hurt other people right? But what about when you are so wronged, by someone you had so much trust in. How are you not supposed to be angry.
What you say is so true, because the narcissist will NEVER apologize for their treatment of you. I have a sister who has committed terrible things against my brother and myself. She has not once apologized nor asked for forgiveness from either of us.
I feel your pain. My only sibling/sister is a narcissist, just like my dad was. They will never be I either able or willing to admit any wrongdoing. You can not have a reasonable conversation with them about it. I finally realized, looking back, I have no memory of ever hearing my sister give a sincere apology or admit she was wrong. A typical apology from her would be “I am sorry I did not behave the way you wanted me to.”
Then you don’t have to. That’s biblical. We have been taught by abusers in the church we have to forgive without repentance. We forgive ourselves for the anger or resentment and we forgive the way it changed us. God wants us to not have a hard heart of unforgiveness
@@chaimomma9198 Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. "Then you don’t have to. That’s biblical."??
The best part of my healing was to refuse to forgive my abusers. I learned this in a rush of enlightenment during prayer. (Embrace your anger. It’s a real feeling. It’s there for a reason.)
Prayer to who? To God, I wonder, because He says His people have the desire and the ability, by His Spirit, to forgive others as He has forgiven them, His people. (They are free from resentment and anger because they know God will deal with their enemies.)
@@yvonneherdman4951What you are saying is good as it is transmuting your anger into Gods justice. In that way we dint hold to that anger abd the narcissist is given what he deserves. But (there is a big but here), if abuse is still happening, forgiving them may be dangerous as it prevent us from defending ourselves and establishing boundaries. That anger has its place to say, its enough.
"Healing from narcissistic abuse is individuating, becoming autonomous, and ultimately rising into your authentic self. That's what it is. And your authentic self may not forgive, and that's okay."
I agree. Having healthy anger because you were violated is normal and it is needed to recognize that we are in an increasingly unhealthy situation. Giving ourselves the right to attend and evaluate our own feelings, before the person's attempt to invalidate us, who is pathological or simply enable to care about others boundaries is the necessary first step to walk away from the situation. Once you are reaching a level of rebuilding your own self, you can decide if you learned enough to turn away from other unhealthy relationships before things build up to trauma, you can keep your calm. When it is time, when there are no wounds and not even scabs, on our own time (because it is our right to feel and decide) we can become indifferent or forgive. It is up to us. It is healthy to decide by our own feelings. We are practicing that we matter. Indifference is fine, especially when you were never asked for forgiveness. I think it is healthy. Forgiveness after *meaningful* attempt to deserve one, is possibly a healing experience for both parties. Unfortunately, it is very rare. I find indifference a good level of healing if the abuse was extensive and there is no reflection from the one that abused their power or situation. Wishing you healing and to have the power over your own life!
I think acceptance that forgiveness is not always possible can help with the healing process and moving on. Forcing yourself to forgive when you don't feel comfortable with it, makes matters worse. Victims remain in a state of cognitive dissonance
I don't necessarily do "forgiveness", I do "forgetness". I don't want to think about the creature because it baffles and disgusts me. So I don't think about it. It already stole enough of my time, efforts, energy and happiness.
@@fruitypopwhickle6806 I’m 70. Started in all avenues of psychology more than 50 years ago. What do credentials have to do with anything. Many experts disagree with you. Here you are talking about forgetting. You are not very good at this area of health. Rethink your choices Fruity.
@@ToddDouglasFox I'm a psych major and therefore watch a lot of psych related content. That's why I clicked on this video. For professional reasons, not personal as you had implied. Clearer for you now, Todd? You're welcome. 😊
Completely agree. The grace we give them is to not go eye-for-an-eye with them. But forgive? Someone that has never been sincere in the first place to ask for forgiveness?😂 This ain’t Make A Wish.
You have no idea of how much I needed to hear this! The one thing I would add is the importance of FORGIVING YOURSELF and RELEASING SELF BLAME. Once you've done that, you are good! People who purposely hurt you and others don't deserve your forgiveness but you do deserve to release the resentment and anger you feel for being involved with or believing in them. I love this video so much! Thank you!!
Forgiving those who are beyond any shred of redemption is an exercise in futility. We've wasted enough of our time and energy on those who are undeserving of our compassion. Better to treat them like they don't exist and move on.
FORGIVENESS IS NOT FOR THE ABUSER. IT'S SOLELY FOR YOU! If I have learned anything in my life regarding spirituality, humanism, and my healing from narcissistic abuse, it is the simple fact that forgiveness is a requirement to true healing and personal and spiritual growth. Period.
@matthewmckee561 were told that it is for us, but is it? When you think about it, forgiveness is sometimes forced on victims, making it seem as though they've done something wrong if they choose not to. People can heal and live healthy lives without forgiveness--in some cases, Radical Acceptance is a better option, and forgiveness isn't needed. Forgiveness can be a hard pill to swallow and shouldn't be the end all be all. Were taught that forgiveness is the path to peace and healing, and that's a misnomer and doesn't work for everyone. There should be updated studies on forgiveness vs. Radical Acceptance to determine if one has more or fewer benefits than the other. Most studies strictly focus on forgiveness and its benefits, and that's it. Radical Acceptance should be included in studies to determine if the benefits can be effective as forgiveness.
@@matthewmckee561 "forgiveness is a requirement to true healing and personal and spiritual growth." It may be for you but not for everyone else. Everyone is different and their experiences are different. We are told that forgiveness is for ourselves but it all depends on what you are forgiving. It doesnt work in every instance.
@@LaidOutBare maybe they're not. But it's very difficult to go absolutely no contact with our mothers. Narcissistic mothers are a very special kind. They trickle down our souls, one drop at a time. Unless you have a huge support & understanding from your own partner/ family, it's pretty difficult, almost impossible to cut them off totally. More so when they age, & we age. Like it or not, we all have some enmeshment with our moms. Lucky are those whose moms are healthy & healed.
Bingo. Do what you need to do in order to forgive yourself. That typically means learning from the experience and learning to protect yourself from it. Typically by closing the door on the person hurting you, and moving on.
I am a survivor of horrific narcissist abuse from a family who has poisoned so man family members against me. I agree about not forgiving people. I tried many, many times to forgive. The narcissist become more dangerous each time The one who betrayed me and promised the world when I forgave him took it as permission to lie and betray even more. All forgiveness does is make matters worse and make you ill and even more isolated. The number of times I have forgiven people is ridiculous.
Narcs want forgiveness because it allows them ongoing access to their victims and no accountability. Forgiveness to them is no accountability, which is why it is reinforced in their victims. It has nothing to do with the well-being of victims as one would think. It mainly benefits the aggressors.
I really don't care what forgiveness means to a narc. I'm way too focused on my own well being to consider that. Through radical acceptance, I discovered self trust and know now that that it'll be pretty much impossible for anyone to abuse me ever again, I don't need to be guarded against that, I actually feel very light. I just have such a close relationship with myself now that keeps me grounded and self care is the number 1 priority. I accept everything that happens for the simple reason that it's part of what made me become me today, and I love me, who and what I'm made of. That life of mine is nothing perfect but it's mine and I love it because of that. It's mine, my story, the only life I know, the only one I'm living, the one I embody daily. I have nothing but love for that person in my shoes. Everyone has their struggles, pains, and adventures. Mines happen to be mine, and I take it. No regrets, because regrets imo are denying reality. I have no need for another reality. This one is actually just fine.
Finally someone I agree with. My POS dad beat my mom daily, SA’d me as a child, was incredibly controlling and abusive. I have been no contact with him for over 12 years and perfectly happy with that. Anytime my mom tried to give me an update on him, talk about him I tell him I don’t care and don’t want to hear his name. She then proceeds to try and convince me to forgive him and I just tell her that I barely forgave her for allowing the situation to happen and she stopped bringing it up. People feel entitled to forgiveness and compassion when they have none and violated you in the worst ways. Nope. Go to hell.
I agree with Dr Ramani. There is too often pressure to tie everything up in a neat bow, rather than face the reality of the lasting damage caused by the narcissist. It’s yet another way that victims of narcissistic abuse are expected to carry all of the weight and responsibility for what happened
Yeah, they are energy vampires and soulless beings. When you cut off the supply you realize how much of your energy was being used to keep these demons alive. They only wanted your energy.
I forgive for me. Not for him. I am more than grateful for all the lessons and self reflection I've gained from it. I can now spot a narccisist from a mile away and say whole hearted:" Nope, never again! Not a chance in hell!" It has made my life a lot easier since I was an empath to begin with. I now feel completely free from guilt saying no to people and am becoming the best version of myself.
Im grateful for every lesson learned. I could forgive if my ex would let go of his hatred for me, and truly make amends. However, it's never going to happen and I'm good with that. Not my problem. Living my best life.
Narcissists never feel that others need to forgive them because they didn't do anything wrong to begin with. They don't care about you and so forgiveness is a word they don't get or can they process. Simply move on and forgive someone who is genuine and truly regrets hurting you.
This was so helpful. My sister sent unbelievably cruel texts to me, and when I pointed that out, and asked her to reread them..she said, "I don't see anything wrong with them"..thank you Dr. Ramani for pointing out that we try and try, and nothing works with them.
I've always say there's people who hurt you but didn't mean to then there's the type who sets out to hurt you. Stay away from those ones with intentions.
Dr Ramani you are a treasure. I will never forgive my narcissistic parents and sister but I can forgive myself for not standing up for myself sooner. I can forget them and move on to a healthy relationship with my husband and kids. Thank you for saying this.
Dr ramini is such a legend. Forgiveness is a function of organized religion not of self actualization. Forgiveness can set back healing from trauma by years, best to dissolve contact and work on yourself outside of their toxic influence without worrying about the engendered concept of forgiveness
Man-made religion vs the Word of God: Titus 3:10 "As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him". Ephesians 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. But rather, even expose them".
@Doctor Ramani, this title made me cry, it really hit home. After going no contact with my mother and two younger sisters who literally treated me like Cinderella, even having me live in the basement under the stairs of my OWN house. I have no anger or resentment towards them. I feel sorry for them in a way. What I am having a horribke time with is forgiving myself. All the time I wasted my life is half over trying to please them, take care of them. I really dont even like looking at myself. I just love you and your channel. You make me feel not alone. ❤❤
I looked up the word forgive in the thesaurus. Here are the 4 synonyms it listed: CONDONE, ABSOLVE, EXCUSE, FORGET. I will forgive anyone in my life who has hurt me if they ask for my forgiveness and are truly repentant. My narc parents do not fit this category so they don't deserve my absolution. I severed the relationship with my father in 1992 and he died in 2021. When hearing about his death thru family members, I felt relief then I felt angry that he didn't die sooner. No funeral was held nor memorial. He burned every bridge he crossed. I thank you for sharing this perspective on forgiveness.
Damn that feels like justice is served. Some people are just demons and only out for themselves. Family is also overrated today because most are dysfunctional, I don't want to give my energy to something that's not real and only held by lies and abuse.
Finally. I literally rejected companionship for the rest of my life due to a narcissist. I spend 99% of my life alone with my cat. I can count the number of people I'm even willing to talk to on the phone on one hand. Its been 5 years this week....i have no intention of changing
Dr. Ramani's viewpoint is so FREEING. All too many times, i've felt the pressure to "forgive" horrific perpetration such as: The SA of my children by nex partner (their father) and his buddy countless times according to my children. Plus other crimes these two have done against other children beyond my own. And as long as they are free and unchanged, they without a doubt continue. Remembering is not about vengeance, it's about protecting the innocent! I was also harmed by the nex, and ended up escaping for my life. I do not stew in hatred but choose to not dwell on the specifics of what harms they have committed because it isn't bearable to contemplate. Survivors should never have the weight of what they "need" to do on their shoulders. Just offer support and help put away perps for a safer society and the good of all.
This is my story too. Some things ARE unforgivable. And to forgive someone who has harmed your children in this way, feels like betraying your own children. If people want to put a religious spin on it, I thought that God asks for repentance to forgive sin. Should we be above God and forgive someone who has no remorse? They did not “make a mistake.” This is how they live. And they always hope that they get away with it. Crimes against children are unforgivable.
@@jeanpease9327 Wise words.....i'm sorry this is your story also. I know that if the perpetrators admit to what they've done and then turn themselves in for their crimes, they are then truly sorry. And that's the only way i'd trust there's been a change.
Too bad so many people don't know the actual dictionary definition of the word FORGIVE. To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment. Hold and they have a hold on you. Release and you release their power over you.
This is just one more reason why Dr. Ramani has proven herself, once again, to be truly at the top of this field, filled with compassion and courageous honesty and authenticity. Thank you for this interview. 🙏🏼❣️
My sometimes criminally abusive, narcissistic family tried to shame me for not forgiving them, and they have never genuinely apologised to me (the best they could do was, “Sorry you feel that way,” or “Sorry I came across that way.”). Others, including therapists, have insisted I need to forgive for my own good. Ive never understood how that was supposed to work. Thank you for some much needed validation Dr. Ramani! 🎉
Thanks for this post. I never felt the need to forgive the narc in my life. For me, forgiveness is for people who made a mistake. A narc didn’t make a mistake, it was intentional. Once I accepted what happened and understood how I ended up in this relationship, forgiveness wasn’t necessary.
Forgiving is not necessary...but making a plan & building boundaries is. (Forgiving gives permission for repeat). These perpetrators are of no consequence...go no contact & live your best life
Forgiving does not give the person permission to abuse you. It sets you free from tge pain the pain the person caused, it unloads the burden of the pain you carry caused by the abuser.
Have y’all actually been in a relationship with a narcissist? Forgiveness works for normal people. A narcissist takes your forgiveness as permission to continue to behavior and often to escalate it. And then after they take your forgiveness and stab your heart 1000 times with it, they will turn around and blame you for why it happened, you cannot forgive a narcissist. You can only forgive yourself for loving the narcissist.
I forgive myself for believing him when he said he changed. He hadn't changed. There is no forgiveness from me. He'll have to seek from his higher power.
Wow the forgiveness piece was really something!! I loved Lewis's reaction to doctor Ramani about forgiveness,he looked surprised,she surprised me to!! But you know what i kinda agree with her,it makes sense.
Thank you! I lost a long time best friend who studied psychology over an argument with them saying I must forgive them. They didn't understand that they are unforgivable. Their constantly getting forgiveness is how they are able to harm so many people.
You don’t need to forgive someone who has done you harm. You only need to forgive yourself. That’s how I see it being free and being healthy. To forgive someone who has hurt me so much would put me through a noose in shame and self-hatred, but I can forgive myself for putting myself in certain situations that led up to that point.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Psp, do you really miss her or are you grieving for the future you planned that now never will be? When I realized that I was doing that, going on from a former relationship got easier. Had I truly been honest with myself, I would have realized earlier on that much of the relationship was in my head. It's hard to accept, but a relationship requires two yeses, but ends with one no.
Thank-you Dr. Ramani. I’m tired of being told how to feel after nearly being mentally and emotionally destroyed by my narcissistic daughter. No contact and no pressure to tell myself that it’s okay. Finally feeling normal again! You’re the best!😊
I agree. Before I knew about narc abuse, I forgave the narc mother multiple multiple times. Every time I did, she just hurt me again. Thank you Dr. Ramani for putting it out there that it's okay not to forgive. Our culture is obsessed with the feel good story of forgiveness. The focus is always on 'oh be the bigger person' or 'oh people change' or 'oh it wasn't that bad'. The focus is on propping up the person who is awful, never on the person who was hurt. It's invalidating and completely wrong.
Finally! Finally!!! I have been waiting so long for this. I can't forgive that my life have been destroyed by my own family. I can't forgive that I grew up with no confidence and no self-love. My life is a mess and I have to do all the work to try to mend it. I have many desesises and problems that all that people have caused. I take responsibility for my deeds but I'm paying a very large prize for what others shoose to do to me instead of taking care of their own skit. Thank you.
Best I've heard, as I have not forgiven my diseased mother and husband and a few, now zero contact subsequent folk. And like Dr Ramani, am totall secure and happy with this.
What a perfect video! Thank you, Dr. Ramani! My motto is:" Never forgive the abuser, - because the forgiven abuser becomes double as evil, as before. If go unpunished, perpetrators repeat their crimes."
'Never apologize or feel guilty for the actions of someone else who hasn't done any work on themselves' 'If you've been hurt by a narcissist, you don't have to forgive them, you have to heal.' (that's my view at least)
yep - forgiveness for me is just another narcistic game designed to manipulate you further into feeling guilt and the social pressure to go along with their behaviour. Screw them - move on, focus on your life, do the things you want to do and the way you want to do them and start to live and enjoy life finally. Good luck everyone!
Dr Ramani, i have so much respect for the work you do. For years i pretended to forgive, but couldn't let go of the resentment. It never goes away. Thanks for validation 🙏
Finally !! I've said this , debated it nearly endlessly . My best friend and I decided it was for a higher power to do, to forgive them . I personally reject the work of the being the one that has to do that exhausting work.
The notion that you must forgive is yet another example of holding the victim hostage to their abuser. This counsel is a completely ridiculous and dangerous. You can move on and live a life of peace without ever forgiving these monsters. Thank you Dr. Ramani, I struggled with this for years and came to my own conclusion that I decide what forgiveness is and I decide who, when and if ever. Well done...read the book and listened to Audible version, excellent!
I am glad someone talks about it. If you are a narcissist abuse survivor, you already have to deal with a lot of stuff, including a deep guilt and shame. When people tell you that you should forgive (otherwise you are not a good person/believer/spiritual practitioner/you name it), it only puts another heavy load on you. Is anyone going to the narc, telling them that they should ask you for forgiveness or atone their wrongdoings? No. So why we dump all the responsibility on the survivor/victim of the abuse? Anyway, you don't HAVE to forgive them. In fact, you should focus on your own healing. Forgiveness might came on its own eventually, but never force it.
FINALLY! Thank you! This is so freeing. It’s bad enough to suffer cruel behavior by someone you love, but then to be told you must forgive to be a healthy and good person? I can understand the perpetrator and I can have compassion for their inner-misery, but “forgiveness” is too conceptual here, and I’m not feeling it.
Oh how I needed to hear this! Life long non believer of forgiveness for all who purposely hurt others. No contact is the only thing. I am not petty. Thank you Dr R!!
Love this!! I have been told my nearly every person in my life tell me to forgive the narc in my life and they all look at me like I’m crazy when I say I don’t want to forgive. I don’t need to. People truly believe I am the nutty one. So good to hear I’m not alone. I’ve moved on, I don’t dwell, I’m not angry and I have not forgiven and will not. I am at peace and best of all genuinely happy and at peace with myself.
I agree! One must protect themself from the people who hurt him or her, the narcs and the hypocrites. Religious beliefs, emotional immaturity and unawareness can severely impact a victim's opportunity of healing
When faced with the abuse, they sometimes will pretend they are sorry, but it is only a game for them. They don't respect you, they think they are superior and find deep satisfaction when they see that they can manipulate you. And the next time they will be even more cruel. Why? Because they don't care about you, in their mind you are just a fool. Even if they are your own parents.
Thank u for helping me understand why ive been unable to forgive. I can stop feeling guilty now. Now i can start forgiving myself. Ive always said you only truly understand something when uv been through it yourself. That's why Dr Ramini gets it. Thank u Dr R - I feel unburdened. Uv helped me both now and over last few years. x
I forgave myself for believing the narcissist. I stopped resenting myself, which opened space for my self healing. Also allowed distance between me and narcissist while I explored tools I could use.
Multiplied betrayal < is so real I accepted that I can't forgive the narc not because I'm petty or filled with anger or whatever. But because I know that they did what they did, knowing full well of how they're hurting/damaging others doing it. To me, forgiving them is disrespecting myself (again). I am moving on with my life but I will not forgive the narc ex and I'm completely okay with it!
I heard someone say forgiveness is mandatory. However, trust is earned. It's a small but significant difference. If you can no longer trust a person . It's only sensible to go no contact or, at the very least, limit emotional contact with the person
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! It was so toxic to be told we had to forgive!! My children and I were destroyed by my husband. No contact, self love, somatic work, and shadow work brought us peace, NOT forgiveness. We need something similar to forgiveness but different. We need a new word/feeling/understanding. Not being forced to forgive is so FREEING. THANK YOU FOR THIS❤
I know I will never forgive them. Thank you for this post. I am relieved that I'm not horrible for not forgiving and that I'm not the only one out there. This is empowering. Thank you again.
Thank you Dr Ramani!!!! I know I, and I’d wager many others need to hear it’s ok not to forgive certain people. And I totally agree with that. Some people do certain things that are unforgivable and don’t deserve a pass. You don’t have to let it consume you, and you don’t ever forget what they did to make forgiving them an impossibility.
Forgiveness is putting more weight and responsibility on the victim. You can let go and move on without forgiving. Especially if the Narcissist doesn't even want forgiveness or tries to change. I won't forgive my parents, but I have let it go and moved on from them. I am still healing without it.
To me, going no contact and resisting the urge to wish bad on those who hurt me, (the enablers more so than the narcissist herself!) that's already doing more than they deserve! To forgive, would require that those who wronged us feel remorse and regret for hurting us! We know narcissists not only have no remorse, because that would require empathy, which they have none, but also, if given the opportunity, they would inflict more hurt and misery! The only people the victims need to forgive is themselves. The victims are the only ones with the ability to appreciate it and turn the forgiveness into healing anyway!
Resisting the urge to wish bad on them is the Biblical definition of forgiveness. You have already forgiven if you have done that. God is very fair and just, and His punishment is fair. Forgiveness is like Jesus on the cross, asking God to take into account their mental lack of understanding of their own evil deeds. Asking that repentance could be granted to that person. Under the anger is sadness and grief, and then acceptance and moving on with joy. That’s been my story. ❤
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I COMPLETELY agree with Dr. Ramani. I forgave my narcissist ex and he cheated and deceived me again and again. And again. My forgiveness was license for him to keep hurting me. I remember when he begged and pleaded the last time for forgiveness, promising to change, and immediately screwed me over again. I don't believe there can actually be true forgiveness if the person who hurt you isn't actually sorry. One can move on without forgiving.
It is hardest to forgive those who DELIGHT in hurting you and with a grin tell you in a mocking tone, "I was JUST kidding/teasing/joking. And I LOVE you!" Abuse is NOT LOVE. It is contempt.
YES!
YES
More content like this! This was awesome! Thank you!
I had a narcissistic family member tell me that I had to forgive. I asked them if they had something to confess. Shut their asses up in a heartbeat.
Fabulous. Well done.❤
wow
Love it!
That is awesome! Thank you for sharing your powerful wisdom!!
This message needs to be spread a million times more than “live laugh love” ever freaking did. Brilliant.
From my experience, forgiving narcissists can be very dangerous. Because when you forgive them there's a chance that you might allow them back into your life
All too many times it could turn into forgiving and forgetting, which would definitely mean a chance of that.
Iagree.
Agreed! 💯
Only if you’re stupid.
Forgiveness n reconciliation are 2 very different things.
Telling people to "forgive" those who truly hurt them is another form of emotional blackmail and manipulation. It's also s form of "toxic positivity".
It's gaslighting ⛽ too
@@dontbelongherefromanotherthe entire New Age movement is about gaslighting and victim shaming. It's disgusting 🤮
No its advise to set You Free the other person doesn’t care . You release them and move forward unforgiveness hurts you and your body and mind . Why let someone who already hurt you continue to damage you? Let it go
@@stacymorales7806 No it doesnt set you free. That's just a lie and pop-psychology. And you don't need to "forgive" to move forward or live a happy life.
My narcissistic dad thinks that "forgive and forget" is the same as letting him off the hook. It isn't.
I totally believe that NOT forgiving a narcissist is the only path to healing . I'm so glad she shut down that old trope.
Yep, he totally looked out of depth in front of Dr. RAMANI. She is a life-saver!
Indeed 👍
You should hold no grudges though and move on.
You all are mixing forgive with forget.
Forgiveness has been working for thousands of years. Your way hasn't.
Letting go and moving on without carrying resentment is healthy healing. Forgiving a narcissist is once again putting the responsibility on the victim.
no, UNFORGIVING IS A SELF IMPOSED IMPRISONING, FOR GIVING RELEASES YOU FROM THE HOLD OF UNFORGIVING, WHAT IF THE OTHER PERSON DOES NOT CARE,WHAT WILL YOU DO?? UNFORGIVING CAUSES THE INFLUENCE OF THE OTHER PERSON TO CAUSE YOU TO MAKE POOR CHOICES AND ATTITUDES TO PEOPLE.
@aileene9857 incredibly helpful comment, many thanks 🙏🏻❤
The English language can be so easily misused... To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment.
@@berniefynn6623lol shut up
@@berniefynn6623 I strongly agree. Forgiveness is the what gave me true freedom. Specifically, recognizing the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I CAN forgive the person and not their behavior. I don't want to live like everyone is a narcissist or I'll never be able to be myself and be vulnerable which intimacy requires to some degree. Also it's a distinguishing characteristic that I'm very proud of, narcissist's can't forgive anyone and I refuse to have anything in common with them that I can avoid if at all possible. It feels like bitterness and I have more then enough to cary and manage. Be encouraged everyone. You don't have to forgive but it has been given me a great deal of peace is all I'm saying.
this awful psychiatrist told me if I did not forgive my mother my life would be horrible. My mother has done things to me that nearly killed me. HE was horrible. I am so glad for you, Dr. Ramani.
They don't always give the best advice. They're not in your position and haven't survived your experience. You make your own decisions.
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
The Hoffman Process by John and Julie Gottman
The Untethered Soul by Micheal Singer
If I may I would offer my advice - be happy that you survived, take courage and 'our power of will and move forward, to heal.
Best of lucks from another survivor
You don’t have to forgive that awful psychiatrist either.
That should be reportable. He’s pushing his mommy issues onto patients. Cuss words at him.
@@-astrangerontheinternet6687so on point, but how could you report this and expect a good outcome for you? It's near impossible. So many doctors are narcs, that is best to keep on moving to the next doctor silently.
In my opinion, commenting in public forums is better, bc it gets to future patients 👌
I know I had my share of nonsensical doctors already...
@@sherriflemming3218 I want to recommend one book too. "Will I ever be good enough" by Karyl McBride. It is very easy to read and full of examples.
I cried (literally) when I read the title and saw the beginning of this video - 'No one ever feels that they have to forgive someone for hijacking their soul.' Such powerful words with a message that finally gives a sense of being understood. No nonsense about 'forgiveness is a moral duty to release you from a karmic circle' etc. Radical. Thank you, Dr Ramani.
🙂 Fortunately or unfortunately - we are many. Have heart to move forward. Best of lucks ❤
The Bible says that if you don't forgive, then God won't forgive you. That terrifies me.
@@victoryamartin9773 Too bad the catholic church wrote the books of the new testament. Do your research. You state that you're "terrified." The bible also says that "there is now no condemnation for those that are in Maschiach Yeshua, that have been called according to his purpose."Maybe you weren't called and that's why you're terrified.
@@victoryamartin9773 This is exactly why I found this video freeing and why I wrote, 'No nonsense about forgiveness is a moral duty to release you from a karmic circle'. Most 'man-made' religions (as opposed to authentic spirituality) are about control, moralism, and fear mongering. They weigh heavy on the soul. I want to walk a path that is freeing for the soul and this video definitely figures on this path :).
But please consider that the English language is often misused... Just type in the word FORGIVE ... ... To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment. Which state would you prefer?
No need to forgive narcissists. Just heal, live happily, and forget that they exist.
Not forgiving is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. The bitterness only hurts you. I know from experience, It hurts and is bad for you're health. You can never see them again, avoid them,but to not forgive by letting go of the resentment is only hurting you. You cannot forget and heal if they anger is eating away at you. Forgiveness is letting go of the pain and anger. It's best for you're health.
No need to forgive anyone. It up to you to decide if whatever is a 'forgivable' offense.
@@gusmonster59AGREE 💯💜
I can never forgive my family for what they did nor will I ever forgive my ex narc for the pain and hurt he caused.
I’ve written the ex off and it feels awesome. He doesn’t deserve a damn thing from me.
As for family, my father has passed. I’m more upset he never apologized or knew what he put me thru. It is my choice to not forgive, especially when the pain has impacted my life and my trust in people. It has forever changed me. So forgiving will never remove the turmoil I have gone thru
Right
Dr. Ramani is the most authentic, authoritative voice on narcissism. Love and respect her!
absolutely. she is a life saver.
Dr Sam Vaknin is the best, a narcissist himself and has written the first book and many books later on this subject. he has a UA-cam channel
So, so, so, SO empowering!
She is one.so she probly is.
She is so honest, and only People who have gone trough the Same for Years can relate and really Understand what she is talking about. Forgiving is a Personal decision, thanks DR. Ramani, Nobody is perfect! WE can only try hard to be the Best Version of ourself!!!!
No wonder I felt an overwhelming sense of repulsion and anger whenever I was told that I had to forgive to feel better. It’s like my body was reacting before my mind did.
Well said. Phoney forgiveness helps nobody. The universe operates on Truth and narcs are phoney people with phoney belief systems holding up phoney relationships. Forgiveness would be like throwing pearls to swine! Forgiveness and phoney Narcs simply don't gel and only victims get it. Victims whose inner cores detest falsehood simply deserve better! No more wasted time and wasted efforts-it's like a job that doesn't pay year after year. Victims whose inner cores detest falsehood simply deserve better! And that is the Truth!
Yes. Your whole body fights against it. Well said.❤
Absolutely 💯
Agree 💯 forever
When people have done unforgivable things to others (especially vulnerable children)....no forgiveness required. Narcissists don't ask for forgiveness because they don't do anything they think is wrong. Instead, they, quite often, consider themselves the"victim."
"I still don't feel safe in the world." This is exactly what I have been feeling and now you have given me the words to express that. Thank you!
Big cyber huggs.
And you are not alone! No doubts than one closes in oneself!
Thank you Nick for your reply. I agree. "Once someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time!"- Maya Angelou
I will never forgive, and popular psychology's demand that I forgive is just more shaming. Thank you, Ramani, for permission not to betray myself!
Amen
It's refreshing to know that I'm not alone.
The feeling of loneliness stays with you forever, when you had to grow up with a narc mom
It's not popular psychology. It's actually quite spiritual and a requirement for a lot of things in life that unfortunately you won't get to experience until you do it
🎯🎯🎯
What hurts me the most is that narcissist will never admit that he hurt me and even if he does, it won't be genuine
Why should you hurt when you know that the narcissist is a mentally ill man who does not have the function in his mind to be able to take responsibility and on the other hand he is a sadist who enjoys giving you pain? A narcissist does not function like a normative person, they are mad man
It’s definitely that inauthenticity that gets at me the most. I was being nothing but genuine 99.99%♾️ of the time and yet never got through to who the other person really was and my brain just has a lot of trouble computing these things.
Narcs offer pseudo-apologies like handing out pennies
"I'm sorry." "It won't happen again!" "What do you want me to do about it?"
They say these things to put the responsibility of fixing the problem on you.
This is why I love Dr. Ramani. I am sooooo sick of forgiveness rhetoric and toxic positivity. Forgiving someone who isn't sorry does not help me in any way. It doesn't bring me any "peace" or make me feel like the "bigger person", it just makes me feel like a chump. I'm sick of hearing that anger is an unhealthy emotion too. Being angry at someone who abuses you IS healthy. It's indicative of self-love and strong boundaries. Until that person is truly remorseful and changes their behavior permanently, you do NOT have to forgive them. Hell even if they do apologize and change, you _still_ aren't obligated to forgive them. You are allowed to have a one-and-done policy for bad behavior, you can be totally done with someone after a single offense. The beauty of being autonomous creatures is we get to choose who we surround ourselves with 👌
Couldn't agree more.
AGREED ❤🥂💃
This sounds exactly like Dr. R. speaking!
The autonomous part is what I spent my life striving for. Only thousands of miles and passing of offenders finally set me free 💜🕊️
It's easy, and empty advice to say things like "forgiveness is for you!" But also why are we pretending like it's your duty to forgive greater wrongdoing. The logical extreme being "why are you obligated to forgive someone if they ran over your child driving home drunk?" If you can? That seems amazing. But I really can't blame people for not. And that's one end of the spectrum. What if they habitually, repeatedly wrong you? The only reason they say "I'm sorry" anyways is because then the ball is in your court and if you don't play nice then you are the antagonistic one.
And then there's anger. There's a whole pretense of anger being a wrong emotion. An empty emotion. An invalid feeling. Because angry people hurt other people right? But what about when you are so wronged, by someone you had so much trust in. How are you not supposed to be angry.
This comment should be pinned! 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
What you say is so true, because the narcissist will NEVER apologize for their treatment of you. I have a sister who has committed terrible things against my brother and myself. She has not once apologized nor asked for forgiveness from either of us.
That's because a narcissist never does anything wrong.
I feel your pain. My only sibling/sister is a narcissist, just like my dad was. They will never be I either able or willing to admit any wrongdoing. You can not have a reasonable conversation with them about it. I finally realized, looking back, I have no memory of ever hearing my sister give a sincere apology or admit she was wrong. A typical apology from her would be “I am sorry I did not behave the way you wanted me to.”
Idem
Then you don’t have to. That’s biblical. We have been taught by abusers in the church we have to forgive without repentance. We forgive ourselves for the anger or resentment and we forgive the way it changed us. God wants us to not have a hard heart of unforgiveness
@@chaimomma9198 Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. "Then you don’t have to. That’s biblical."??
The best part of my healing was to refuse to forgive my abusers. I learned this in a rush of enlightenment during prayer. (Embrace your anger. It’s a real feeling. It’s there for a reason.)
Prayer to who? To God, I wonder, because He says His people have the desire and the ability, by His Spirit, to forgive others as He has forgiven them, His people. (They are free from resentment and anger because they know God will deal with their enemies.)
@@yvonneherdman4951What you are saying is good as it is transmuting your anger into Gods justice. In that way we dint hold to that anger abd the narcissist is given what he deserves. But (there is a big but here), if abuse is still happening, forgiving them may be dangerous as it prevent us from defending ourselves and establishing boundaries. That anger has its place to say, its enough.
Bless your spirit 🙏.
*Truly. Healing😮🥰😇.*
Anybody that debates that is beyond dumb. They sound like the person you dont want to forgive. Facts
"Healing from narcissistic abuse is individuating, becoming autonomous, and ultimately rising into your authentic self. That's what it is. And your authentic self may not forgive, and that's okay."
I agree.
Having healthy anger because you were violated is normal and it is needed to recognize that we are in an increasingly unhealthy situation. Giving ourselves the right to attend and evaluate our own feelings, before the person's attempt to invalidate us, who is pathological or simply enable to care about others boundaries is the necessary first step to walk away from the situation. Once you are reaching a level of rebuilding your own self, you can decide if you learned enough to turn away from other unhealthy relationships before things build up to trauma, you can keep your calm. When it is time, when there are no wounds and not even scabs, on our own time (because it is our right to feel and decide) we can become indifferent or forgive. It is up to us. It is healthy to decide by our own feelings. We are practicing that we matter. Indifference is fine, especially when you were never asked for forgiveness. I think it is healthy. Forgiveness after *meaningful* attempt to deserve one, is possibly a healing experience for both parties. Unfortunately, it is very rare. I find indifference a good level of healing if the abuse was extensive and there is no reflection from the one that abused their power or situation.
Wishing you healing and to have the power over your own life!
“Becoming autonomous”, yes! I think this is what’s essential! It’s assuming your own power, and that means manifesting it as you choose!
But you were fine, they violated you essentially no gain.
❤❤❤
I think acceptance that forgiveness is not always possible can help with the healing process and moving on. Forcing yourself to forgive when you don't feel comfortable with it, makes matters worse. Victims remain in a state of cognitive dissonance
Where there's a narcissist, there's also a group of enablers shaming and blaming the victim.
I don't necessarily do "forgiveness", I do "forgetness". I don't want to think about the creature because it baffles and disgusts me. So I don't think about it. It already stole enough of my time, efforts, energy and happiness.
👏👏👏
If you weren’t thinking about it, you would not have clicked on this vid.
@@ToddDouglasFox I'm a psych major... Satisified? You're welcome.
@@fruitypopwhickle6806 I’m 70. Started in all avenues of psychology more than 50 years ago. What do credentials have to do with anything. Many experts disagree with you. Here you are talking about forgetting. You are not very good at this area of health. Rethink your choices Fruity.
@@ToddDouglasFox I'm a psych major and therefore watch a lot of psych related content. That's why I clicked on this video. For professional reasons, not personal as you had implied. Clearer for you now, Todd? You're welcome. 😊
We don't have to forgive them. Just protect your time, energy and sanity. That's more than enough.
Completely agree.
The grace we give them is to not go eye-for-an-eye with them.
But forgive?
Someone that has never been sincere in the first place to ask for forgiveness?😂
This ain’t Make A Wish.
You have no idea of how much I needed to hear this! The one thing I would add is the importance of FORGIVING YOURSELF and RELEASING SELF BLAME. Once you've done that, you are good! People who purposely hurt you and others don't deserve your forgiveness but you do deserve to release the resentment and anger you feel for being involved with or believing in them. I love this video so much! Thank you!!
Glad this was helpful for you. 🧡
Forgiving those who are beyond any shred of redemption is an exercise in futility. We've wasted enough of our time and energy on those who are undeserving of our compassion. Better to treat them like they don't exist and move on.
Yes!
They are not capable of remorse. You cannot talk to them and work things out. Forgiveness is not healthy or warranted.
Forgiving is healthy, if they have no remorse it is just not possible to have a healthy relation with them, so you have to keep your bounderies then
I agree. Since they have no remorse there is no need to forgive unless it helps the forgiver move on. Forgiveness does nothing for the narcissist.
FORGIVENESS IS NOT FOR THE ABUSER.
IT'S SOLELY FOR YOU!
If I have learned anything in my life regarding spirituality, humanism, and my healing from narcissistic abuse, it is the simple fact that forgiveness is a requirement to true healing and personal and spiritual growth. Period.
@matthewmckee561 were told that it is for us, but is it? When you think about it, forgiveness is sometimes forced on victims, making it seem as though they've done something wrong if they choose not to. People can heal and live healthy lives without forgiveness--in some cases, Radical Acceptance is a better option, and forgiveness isn't needed. Forgiveness can be a hard pill to swallow and shouldn't be the end all be all. Were taught that forgiveness is the path to peace and healing, and that's a misnomer and doesn't work for everyone. There should be updated studies on forgiveness vs. Radical Acceptance to determine if one has more or fewer benefits than the other. Most studies strictly focus on forgiveness and its benefits, and that's it. Radical Acceptance should be included in studies to determine if the benefits can be effective as forgiveness.
@@matthewmckee561 "forgiveness is a requirement to true healing and personal and spiritual growth."
It may be for you but not for everyone else. Everyone is different and their experiences are different.
We are told that forgiveness is for ourselves but it all depends on what you are forgiving. It doesnt work in every instance.
THIS WAS SO GOOD TO HEAR! AFTER 63 YEARS of living with a Narcissistic Mother almost ruined my life and my children's life. I am free
I'm with you. ❤
I'm still stuck with mine. And I don't have children because of her.
Why are you still living with your mother after 63 years?
@@LaidOutBare That question sounds aggressive. Fight, flight or freeze.
@@LaidOutBare maybe they're not. But it's very difficult to go absolutely no contact with our mothers. Narcissistic mothers are a very special kind. They trickle down our souls, one drop at a time. Unless you have a huge support & understanding from your own partner/ family, it's pretty difficult, almost impossible to cut them off totally. More so when they age, & we age. Like it or not, we all have some enmeshment with our moms. Lucky are those whose moms are healthy & healed.
You forgive YOURSELF for being duped by them. That’s the true forgiveness. ❤
Absolutely! 100%. Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do.
I forgive myself for being naive, so needy, and so willing to be duped by the narcissist.
Bingo. Do what you need to do in order to forgive yourself. That typically means learning from the experience and learning to protect yourself from it. Typically by closing the door on the person hurting you, and moving on.
Thank you Dr Ramani. I cannot forgive him - never. He stole my life !!
Letting go is necessary, forgiving is extra.
Forgiving takes on a different meaning than just letting go. Most believe that they are similar when in fact, they're not.
Yasss this!!
Thank you Dr. Ramani. To " forgive" someone who has betrayed you ....is to betray yourself all over again and compound the abuse.
Finally someone who is honest. Thanks Dr Ramani Durvasula.
Forgiveness puts the cycle on repeat.
End the cycle & live your best life.
Exactly
I am a survivor of horrific narcissist abuse from a family who has poisoned so man family members against me. I agree about not forgiving people. I tried many, many times to forgive. The narcissist become more dangerous each time
The one who betrayed me and promised the world when I forgave him took it as permission to lie and betray even more. All forgiveness does is make matters worse and make you ill and even more isolated. The number of times I have forgiven people is ridiculous.
Don't do it again
And find new environment
Every time you forgive a Narc, they take it as a license to hurt you again.
This is so spot on
Narcs want forgiveness because it allows them ongoing access to their victims and no accountability. Forgiveness to them is no accountability, which is why it is reinforced in their victims. It has nothing to do with the well-being of victims as one would think. It mainly benefits the aggressors.
I really don't care what forgiveness means to a narc. I'm way too focused on my own well being to consider that. Through radical acceptance, I discovered self trust and know now that that it'll be pretty much impossible for anyone to abuse me ever again, I don't need to be guarded against that, I actually feel very light. I just have such a close relationship with myself now that keeps me grounded and self care is the number 1 priority. I accept everything that happens for the simple reason that it's part of what made me become me today, and I love me, who and what I'm made of. That life of mine is nothing perfect but it's mine and I love it because of that. It's mine, my story, the only life I know, the only one I'm living, the one I embody daily. I have nothing but love for that person in my shoes. Everyone has their struggles, pains, and adventures. Mines happen to be mine, and I take it. No regrets, because regrets imo are denying reality. I have no need for another reality. This one is actually just fine.
Finally someone I agree with. My POS dad beat my mom daily, SA’d me as a child, was incredibly controlling and abusive.
I have been no contact with him for over 12 years and perfectly happy with that. Anytime my mom tried to give me an update on him, talk about him I tell him I don’t care and don’t want to hear his name. She then proceeds to try and convince me to forgive him and I just tell her that I barely forgave her for allowing the situation to happen and she stopped bringing it up.
People feel entitled to forgiveness and compassion when they have none and violated you in the worst ways. Nope. Go to hell.
I agree with Dr Ramani. There is too often pressure to tie everything up in a neat bow, rather than face the reality of the lasting damage caused by the narcissist. It’s yet another way that victims of narcissistic abuse are expected to carry all of the weight and responsibility for what happened
Yeah, they are energy vampires and soulless beings. When you cut off the supply you realize how much of your energy was being used to keep these demons alive. They only wanted your energy.
I forgive for me. Not for him. I am more than grateful for all the lessons and self reflection I've gained from it. I can now spot a narccisist from a mile away and say whole hearted:" Nope, never again! Not a chance in hell!" It has made my life a lot easier since I was an empath to begin with. I now feel completely free from guilt saying no to people and am becoming the best version of myself.
That just seems like toxic positivity to me. But if it helps you survive, then you do what you need.
@@mellie4174what’s toxic about learning a valuable life lesson and be grateful for that?
Im grateful for every lesson learned. I could forgive if my ex would let go of his hatred for me, and truly make amends. However, it's never going to happen and I'm good with that. Not my problem. Living my best life.
Finally someone has said it. I do not actively seek vengeance, but if the opportunity falls on my lap I'll gladly take it.
Narcissists never feel that others need to forgive them because they didn't do anything wrong to begin with. They don't care about you and so forgiveness is a word they don't get or can they process. Simply move on and forgive someone who is genuine and truly regrets hurting you.
EXACTLY...not forgiving an unrepentant, oblivious narc😠😒Oh No
Absolutely true. They don't process forgiveness so a waste of breath, time, and energy to do so....and only puts my shame and guilt on yourself.
This was so helpful. My sister sent unbelievably cruel texts to me, and when I pointed that out, and asked her to reread them..she said, "I don't see anything wrong with them"..thank you Dr. Ramani for pointing out that we try and try, and nothing works with them.
To a narcasist your forgiveness means you are weak and they can get away with it again.
I've always say there's people who hurt you but didn't mean to then there's the type who sets out to hurt you. Stay away from those ones with intentions.
Dr Ramani you are a treasure. I will never forgive my narcissistic parents and sister but I can forgive myself for not standing up for myself sooner. I can forget them and move on to a healthy relationship with my husband and kids. Thank you for saying this.
Dr ramini is such a legend. Forgiveness is a function of organized religion not of self actualization. Forgiveness can set back healing from trauma by years, best to dissolve contact and work on yourself outside of their toxic influence without worrying about the engendered concept of forgiveness
Man-made religion vs the Word of God:
Titus 3:10
"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him".
Ephesians 5:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. But rather, even expose them".
Yes ! 💯
@Doctor Ramani, this title made me cry, it really hit home. After going no contact with my mother and two younger sisters who literally treated me like Cinderella, even having me live in the basement under the stairs of my OWN house. I have no anger or resentment towards them. I feel sorry for them in a way. What I am having a horribke time with is forgiving myself. All the time I wasted my life is half over trying to please them, take care of them. I really dont even like looking at myself. I just love you and your channel. You make me feel not alone. ❤❤
Appreciate you for being here.
I looked up the word forgive in the thesaurus. Here are the 4 synonyms it listed: CONDONE, ABSOLVE, EXCUSE, FORGET. I will forgive anyone in my life who has hurt me if they ask for my forgiveness and are truly repentant. My narc parents do not fit this category so they don't deserve my absolution. I severed the relationship with my father in 1992 and he died in 2021. When hearing about his death thru family members, I felt relief then I felt angry that he didn't die sooner. No funeral was held nor memorial. He burned every bridge he crossed. I thank you for sharing this perspective on forgiveness.
Damn that feels like justice is served. Some people are just demons and only out for themselves. Family is also overrated today because most are dysfunctional, I don't want to give my energy to something that's not real and only held by lies and abuse.
I have no interest in forgiving anyone, especially narcissists but myself for not listening to myself and putting myself first❤
Peace is on protecting yourself at all costs..that's real love..no excuses, no analyzing.
Finally. I literally rejected companionship for the rest of my life due to a narcissist. I spend 99% of my life alone with my cat. I can count the number of people I'm even willing to talk to on the phone on one hand. Its been 5 years this week....i have no intention of changing
Dr. Ramani's viewpoint is so FREEING. All too many times, i've felt the pressure to "forgive" horrific perpetration such as:
The SA of my children by nex partner (their father) and his buddy countless times according to my children. Plus other crimes these two have done against other children beyond my own. And as long as they are free and unchanged, they without a doubt continue. Remembering is not about vengeance, it's about protecting the innocent!
I was also harmed by the nex, and ended up escaping for my life.
I do not stew in hatred but choose to not dwell on the specifics of what harms they have committed because it isn't bearable to contemplate.
Survivors should never have the weight of what they "need" to do on their shoulders. Just offer support and help put away perps for a safer society and the good of all.
This is my story too. Some things ARE unforgivable. And to forgive someone who has harmed your children in this way, feels like betraying your own children. If people want to put a religious spin on it, I thought that God asks for repentance to forgive sin. Should we be above God and forgive someone who has no remorse? They did not “make a mistake.” This is how they live. And they always hope that they get away with it. Crimes against children are unforgivable.
@@jeanpease9327 Wise words.....i'm sorry this is your story also.
I know that if the perpetrators admit to what they've done and then turn themselves in for their crimes, they are then truly sorry. And that's the only way i'd trust there's been a change.
Thank you for giving me permission not to forgive 🙏🏼
Too bad so many people don't know the actual dictionary definition of the word FORGIVE. To forgive is to RELEASE anger and resentment. To not forgive would then be to HOLD onto anger and resentment. Hold and they have a hold on you. Release and you release their power over you.
You never needed anyone's permission. You decide if you want forgive or not.
@@tuliprose2529 Not true. I don't forgive certain things. Those things do not have a hold on me - I moved on. You can release without forgiving.
This is just one more reason why Dr. Ramani has proven herself, once again, to be truly at the top of this field, filled with compassion and courageous honesty and authenticity. Thank you for this interview. 🙏🏼❣️
My sometimes criminally abusive, narcissistic family tried to shame me for not forgiving them, and they have never genuinely apologised to me (the best they could do was, “Sorry you feel that way,” or “Sorry I came across that way.”). Others, including therapists, have insisted I need to forgive for my own good. Ive never understood how that was supposed to work. Thank you for some much needed validation Dr. Ramani! 🎉
Thanks for this post. I never felt the need to forgive the narc in my life. For me, forgiveness is for people who made a mistake. A narc didn’t make a mistake, it was intentional. Once I accepted what happened and understood how I ended up in this relationship, forgiveness wasn’t necessary.
Forgiving a narcissist is giving them permission to do it again. You cannot forgive them if you’re going to stay in the relationship with them.
Forgive your enemies, just don't forget who they are.
(They no longer get to operate in my sphere).
Forgiving is not necessary...but making a plan &
building boundaries is.
(Forgiving gives permission for repeat).
These perpetrators are of no consequence...go no contact & live your best life
Forgiving does not give the person permission to abuse you. It sets you free from tge pain the pain the person caused, it unloads the burden of the pain you carry caused by the abuser.
Have y’all actually been in a relationship with a narcissist? Forgiveness works for normal people. A narcissist takes your forgiveness as permission to continue to behavior and often to escalate it. And then after they take your forgiveness and stab your heart 1000 times with it, they will turn around and blame you for why it happened, you cannot forgive a narcissist. You can only forgive yourself for loving the narcissist.
@@CTHou13 they are habitual repeat offenders.
I forgive myself for believing him when he said he changed. He hadn't changed. There is no forgiveness from me. He'll have to seek from his higher power.
Wow the forgiveness piece was really something!!
I loved Lewis's reaction to doctor Ramani about forgiveness,he looked surprised,she surprised me to!!
But you know what i kinda agree with her,it makes sense.
Thanks for being here!
Yup! 100% Some things are unforgivable and if you do forgive them, it will make you vulnerable again....
Agree..
We need more brave people. Tired o this toxic forgiveness bs. The world is full of evil people who keep doing others wrong with no consequences.
Thank you! I lost a long time best friend who studied psychology over an argument with them saying I must forgive them. They didn't understand that they are unforgivable. Their constantly getting forgiveness is how they are able to harm so many people.
You don’t need to forgive someone who has done you harm. You only need to forgive yourself. That’s how I see it being free and being healthy. To forgive someone who has hurt me so much would put me through a noose in shame and self-hatred, but I can forgive myself for putting myself in certain situations that led up to that point.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Psp, do you really miss her or are you grieving for the future you planned that now never will be?
When I realized that I was doing that, going on from a former relationship got easier. Had I truly been honest with myself, I would have realized earlier on that much of the relationship was in my head.
It's hard to accept, but a relationship requires two yeses, but ends with one no.
Sounds more like an addiction than a love story to me.
2:25 when she says “I will never forgive them” I felt that.
Thank-you Dr. Ramani. I’m tired of being told how to feel after nearly being mentally and emotionally destroyed by my narcissistic daughter. No contact and no pressure to tell myself that it’s okay. Finally feeling normal again! You’re the best!😊
I agree. Before I knew about narc abuse, I forgave the narc mother multiple multiple times. Every time I did, she just hurt me again. Thank you Dr. Ramani for putting it out there that it's okay not to forgive. Our culture is obsessed with the feel good story of forgiveness. The focus is always on 'oh be the bigger person' or 'oh people change' or 'oh it wasn't that bad'. The focus is on propping up the person who is awful, never on the person who was hurt. It's invalidating and completely wrong.
Finally! Finally!!! I have been waiting so long for this. I can't forgive that my life have been destroyed by my own family. I can't forgive that I grew up with no confidence and no self-love. My life is a mess and I have to do all the work to try to mend it. I have many desesises and problems that all that people have caused. I take responsibility for my deeds but I'm paying a very large prize for what others shoose to do to me instead of taking care of their own skit. Thank you.
The entire New Age movement is about " victim shaming". They have done so much damage!
Thank you Dr. for your wise words ❤🙏
The Christian religion is full of this nonsense.
Best I've heard, as I have not forgiven my diseased mother and husband and a few, now zero contact subsequent folk. And like Dr Ramani, am totall secure and happy with this.
Thank you. I love my mother, but will never forgive her. And when I was told that it was ok, I finally felt ok and I felt happy.
I instantly ordered her book! Finally someone said that I don’t have to forgive the monsters. No get out of jail free cards! Yay!
THANK YOU, Dr. Ramani, for helping me feel okay to NOT forgive. ❤ One can only keep being treated badly for so long.
What a perfect video! Thank you, Dr. Ramani! My motto is:" Never forgive the abuser, - because the forgiven abuser becomes double as evil, as before. If go unpunished, perpetrators repeat their crimes."
I didn’t even realise how much I needed to hear this. Thank you!
Means a lot!!! Glad this was helpful for you🧡
'Never apologize or feel guilty for the actions of someone else who hasn't done any work on themselves'
'If you've been hurt by a narcissist, you don't have to forgive them, you have to heal.' (that's my view at least)
yep - forgiveness for me is just another narcistic game designed to manipulate you further into feeling guilt and the social pressure to go along with their behaviour. Screw them - move on, focus on your life, do the things you want to do and the way you want to do them and start to live and enjoy life finally. Good luck everyone!
Dr Ramani, i have so much respect for the work you do. For years i pretended to forgive, but couldn't let go of the resentment. It never goes away. Thanks for validation 🙏
Finally !! I've said this , debated it nearly endlessly . My best friend and I decided it was for a higher power to do, to forgive them . I personally reject the work of the being the one that has to do that exhausting work.
Finally someone who tells it like it is
Thank you! I've never understood granting forgiveness to someone who was not remorseful for their horrendous, wrongful behavior
The notion that you must forgive is yet another example of holding the victim hostage to their abuser. This counsel is a completely ridiculous and dangerous. You can move on and live a life of peace without ever forgiving these monsters. Thank you Dr. Ramani, I struggled with this for years and came to my own conclusion that I decide what forgiveness is and I decide who, when and if ever. Well done...read the book and listened to Audible version, excellent!
I am glad someone talks about it.
If you are a narcissist abuse survivor, you already have to deal with a lot of stuff, including a deep guilt and shame.
When people tell you that you should forgive (otherwise you are not a good person/believer/spiritual practitioner/you name it), it only puts another heavy load on you.
Is anyone going to the narc, telling them that they should ask you for forgiveness or atone their wrongdoings? No.
So why we dump all the responsibility on the survivor/victim of the abuse?
Anyway, you don't HAVE to forgive them. In fact, you should focus on your own healing. Forgiveness might came on its own eventually, but never force it.
FINALLY! Thank you! This is so freeing. It’s bad enough to suffer cruel behavior by someone you love, but then to be told you must forgive to be a healthy and good person? I can understand the perpetrator and I can have compassion for their inner-misery, but “forgiveness” is too conceptual here, and I’m not feeling it.
Thank you! I cried listening to this as finally someone described what I felt; I do not want to be pushed, once again! I felt seen and validated!
Thank you so much for watching!
I feel zero quilt, remorse for not forgiving. Def holding onto some resentment and am now so GLAD to hear that is OK!!!!! Thank you Dr. Ramani👍
I forgave all my narcissists. This means I've forgiven their debt to me. This is the only way to really let them go and move on.
Maybe that worked for you, but it doesn't for everyone, and it certainly isn't the only path to peace.
These people dont see the narcisist in the mirror.
He is ruining my life and still is. Financially no where to go.
A pastor once asked me "did the person who hurt you ask you for forgiveness? They don't care. Don't wait for them to change, just protect yourself."
Oh how I needed to hear this! Life long non believer of forgiveness for all who purposely hurt others. No contact is the only thing. I am not petty. Thank you Dr R!!
Thank you for being here!
Love this!! I have been told my nearly every person in my life tell me to forgive the narc in my life and they all look at me like I’m crazy when I say I don’t want to forgive. I don’t need to. People truly believe I am the nutty one. So good to hear I’m not alone.
I’ve moved on, I don’t dwell, I’m not angry and I have not forgiven and will not. I am at peace and best of all genuinely happy and at peace with myself.
I agree! One must protect themself from the people who hurt him or her, the narcs and the hypocrites. Religious beliefs, emotional immaturity and unawareness can severely impact a victim's opportunity of healing
Absolutely correct. Repetitive I'll intent to hurt you is not forgivable, period.
Sometimes the best you can do is radical acceptance, even if they have changed.
They dont change.
Sounds like nobody and NOTHING has changed ….
When faced with the abuse, they sometimes will pretend they are sorry, but it is only a game for them. They don't respect you, they think they are superior and find deep satisfaction when they see that they can manipulate you. And the next time they will be even more cruel. Why? Because they don't care about you, in their mind you are just a fool. Even if they are your own parents.
Finally!!! Someone who validates my sentiments... I don't easily forgive because I DON'T EASILY HURT ❤
Thank you for this, I needed to hear this!!! Narcissists don't need forgiveness because they never care about what they've done.
Thank u for helping me understand why ive been unable to forgive. I can stop feeling guilty now. Now i can start forgiving myself. Ive always said you only truly understand something when uv been through it yourself. That's why Dr Ramini gets it.
Thank u Dr R - I feel unburdened. Uv helped me both now and over last few years. x
"....hijacking their soul."
This woman is brilliant. Thank you for articulating my abject misery.
This woman is such a blessing.
I forgave myself for believing the narcissist. I stopped resenting myself, which opened space for my self healing. Also allowed distance between me and narcissist while I explored tools I could use.
Multiplied betrayal < is so real
I accepted that I can't forgive the narc not because I'm petty or filled with anger or whatever. But because I know that they did what they did, knowing full well of how they're hurting/damaging others doing it.
To me, forgiving them is disrespecting myself (again). I am moving on with my life but I will not forgive the narc ex and I'm completely okay with it!
I heard someone say forgiveness is mandatory. However, trust is earned. It's a small but significant difference. If you can no longer trust a person . It's only sensible to go no contact or, at the very least, limit emotional contact with the person
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! It was so toxic to be told we had to forgive!! My children and I were destroyed by my husband. No contact, self love, somatic work, and shadow work brought us peace, NOT forgiveness. We need something similar to forgiveness but different. We need a new word/feeling/understanding. Not being forced to forgive is so FREEING. THANK YOU FOR THIS❤
I know I will never forgive them. Thank you for this post. I am relieved that I'm not horrible for not forgiving and that I'm not the only one out there. This is empowering. Thank you again.
I AGREE WITH HER WHOLEHEARTEDLY. YOU CAN NOT FORGIVE CERTAIN THINGS!
Dr Ramani I cannot thank you enough for all your sincere authentic iwork ..a true source of inspiration
Thank you Dr Ramani!!!!
I know I, and I’d wager many others need to hear it’s ok not to forgive certain people. And I totally agree with that. Some people do certain things that are unforgivable and don’t deserve a pass. You don’t have to let it consume you, and you don’t ever forget what they did to make forgiving them an impossibility.
Forgiveness is putting more weight and responsibility on the victim. You can let go and move on without forgiving. Especially if the Narcissist doesn't even want forgiveness or tries to change. I won't forgive my parents, but I have let it go and moved on from them. I am still healing without it.
Dr. Ramani is a treasure! This clip is so validating for me. Normalize being at peace with ourselves for not forgiving the toxic people in our lives.
To me, going no contact and resisting the urge to wish bad on those who hurt me, (the enablers more so than the narcissist herself!) that's already doing more than they deserve! To forgive, would require that those who wronged us feel remorse and regret for hurting us! We know narcissists not only have no remorse, because that would require empathy, which they have none, but also, if given the opportunity, they would inflict more hurt and misery! The only people the victims need to forgive is themselves. The victims are the only ones with the ability to appreciate it and turn the forgiveness into healing anyway!
Resisting the urge to wish bad on them is the Biblical definition of forgiveness. You have already forgiven if you have done that. God is very fair and just, and His punishment is fair. Forgiveness is like Jesus on the cross, asking God to take into account their mental lack of understanding of their own evil deeds. Asking that repentance could be granted to that person. Under the anger is sadness and grief, and then acceptance and moving on with joy. That’s been my story. ❤