Interesting video, but I think the author got the target wrong by limiting it to 18-34-year-olds. There are a large number of guys over 50 who are successful technology people interested in EVs and now want a motorcycle to go with their Tesla. Just sayin!
I would love to purchase a DelMar, but I have a very short inseam at only 28” and id be afraid of only being able to tiptoe it at stoplights. Now if Livewire will make a proper cruiser with a low seat height, Id be beating fown the door to get one. Love your videos mate, keep them coming…
I really want one, but have never bought a new vehicle and never will. Second objection is that any EV that doesn't warranty the battery and motor for 10+ years is a huge consumer gamble, it would probably take a lifetime warranty to persuade me.
I would consider this bike but no Livewire dealers in my area and I’m not driving 400 miles round trip to buy one. It also needs L2/L3 fast charging. Livewire One charges on L3 in one hour…this isn’t fast considering the size of battery on the bike.
You’re spot on in your assessment. These traditional manufacturers are blowing a huge demographic. All of the livewires are suitable to a niche audience that’s still doped up on petrol. These manufacturers have to maintain & convert their believers & curate an entirely new core, in a new & rapidly emerging segment. I’ll tell you, there are companies that are going to eat their lunch come 2025/6, if they don’t get their acts together. There are pocket segments that these companies have shied away from : Queensbury Rules, we’re well past that era & those rules no longer apply. They’re still solving for motorcycle design & fuel; that’s the wrong approach : it’s time to innovate.
Great video. They need this discussion. No wonder HD pulled these from dealerships. I was in a dealership in 2021 and was begged to test ride it. I should have when I had the chance. LOL.
Harley really needs to just convert one of their baggers into EV with like a 50+kwh battery if they ever want to get the older crowd interested. An electric motorcycle was my first motorcycle and I couldn't be happier, but I only got it because it was basically half off, no way are most first time buyers going to spend $17k-$25k on their first motorcycle that they're going to drop. I'd like to see them make a beginner bike for like that costs closer to $5k to actually get new riders interested in getting their motorcycle license to ride around town. As for me, I'm waiting until Energica comes out with their 200+hp motor bike :) as now I'm willing to spend that much on a bike I know I'll love.
@@Magic_Toaster Yes, who cares? People buy these land yachts all the time and pay a fortune for them. They harley triglide CVO wieghs 1239 lbs and the cash pigs pay MSRP $49,999 for it. The same demo that buys that bought the ELW.
The Del Mar is still too expensive… I can buy a good number of iCE bikes in the $6-10K range and the Del Mar is still 2x that cost. A price premium for being electric is not realistic. This model needs to be $12-13K, including a base charger. Level 2 and 3 charger options needs to be available thru the dealer too. The better aftermarket seat should be standard and that appears to be the only other complaint I have been able to find. I recently found a used one for 12K and now I’m seriously considering buying it, even though it will take a long trip to pick it up.
If you could go buy a Livewire for around $10k or a Del Mar for around $8k I think they'd sell a little better. You can go but a brand new Honda, Kawasaki or Suzuki liter bike for half the cost of these HD electric bikes. So it's no wonder they're not selling.
Great video! Thanks for the insight. I think you can amp that age a bit more when it comes to the target customers. I'm 39 and would love to have one :) Have you reached out to HD? It would be sad if this beautiful bike is indeed stuck in a cycle of missed opportunity! Sending good vibes :)
The Brembo brakes themselves on the LW1 arn't that great. The Regen helps the stopping power. From precision and full power and feel, the larger ones as on my Energica are really better. Prices are the main issue for sure. Also the online thing isn't helping. A trade isn't possible too. It's not like everyone is just a bike collector.
I did the demo ride on the Livewire One last year, and loved it. Looking at your videos and the general attitude from Livewire, I'm really starting to think that Livewire is intentionally sandbagging the brand, likely at the behest of HD.
The same guy is CEO of both companies. I don’t think it’s sandbagging, I just think it’s yesterday’s marketing. The Del Mar will be a winner, though, in spite of this weak effort, and more good stuff in the pipeline.
I want to love this bike I hate shifting gears and I love bone-crushing torque and speed however the two reasons I won't purchase it yet still way overpriced and mileage on a single charge needs to be at least 200 miles on a single charge for me to consider it and I know they could easily do that if they wanted to there's tons of bikes in Europe that go over 200 miles on a single charge so I'll just keep waiting and chugging along with my Hayabusa.
You may be right that the target audience isn't quite right. I'm 57 and currently ride a zero but will probably switch to the Del Mar if it lives up to my expectations on the test ride. That is, if it actually becomes available! Still waiting here in Paris. However, the problem is larger. It's early days for EVs in general and electric motorcyles are even newer and more expensive that their 4 wheel counterparts. Most young people don't have , as you say, over 15k for a first vehicle. But it 5 years, the price will decrease and range will increase exponentially, and the business model will become viable. These are still almost prototypes. I think that the platform will yield real beauties in the coming decade.
I really want to see the Del Mar become available on the market a.s.a.p. It wouldn't surprise me if another brand suddenly appears on the market, just like Stark Varg have done with dirt bikes. One thing is for sure, there's never going to be a 'cheap' electric motorcycle, and buyers are always dubious about a brand they've never heard of before or there isn't an established dealership network. I really want the Del Mar to succeed. And I'd love to have a ride on one.
@@tonydare7614 Wow! A big thumbs up to you Tony. I've had a brief ride on a H-D Livewire back in late 2020 (before the branding changed) and was impressed with the acceleration and motor braking (it felt just like the compression of a normal engine, and didn't need to use the rear brake). With no gears to shift or clutch to operate, the bike was fantastic in the city & suburbia. I felt privileged to have a ride, knowing that I wouldn't be able to afford one. I'm 6'2" and felt that the bike didn't fit me well. By the way, did you get a chance to road test the Del Mar, or just decide to get the Livewire One anyway?
@@Jonathan-L thank you! I actually only got to sit on the Del Mar and it won't be available for several months here. But I far preferred the geometry of the One and I'm sure that it will come across in the handling. Anyway, thrilled will the purchase Take care and ride safe
@@tonydare7614 The good thing about the Livewire One is that it has over 9 years of R&D gone into it, plus broad dealership coverage worldwide (assuming that any H-D dealership is able to assist / support any Livewire owner should it be necessary). By the way, what colour did you get?
I’d love to have it but it’s to far away to get one and I wish they made it shorter like the Rebel 1100 but with the same power and distance so I can ride it every day to work
So I am the target demographic. I have a Honda shadow and a gsxr 600. I loved the hd ELW. I don't mind the range being short. The issue is cost. If it was 7~8 k it would be an acceptable price. I don't see how you can market a 30k bike to the average young rider. 20k is unreasonable. Look at how much sportbike you can get for 10k.
You can get a Del Mar for $200 a month on LIveWire's Future Forward program. Considering you don't have to buy gas and there is no maintenance, I think the price is reasonable.
LiveWire should produce scooters & keep the price affordable. Not everyone needs a flat tracker like the Del Mar. Yes, still keep the Del Mar as a model and make the gen 2 better looking & cheaper.
Nice vintage two stroke small frame vespa in the background of that first interview. I have 6 vintage vespas and a carbed harley. I have a reservation for the del mar and will be buying it. Their target is tech savvy 30-40 yr olds who currently ride bikes and live in a traffic congested city. This is not a cruiser. Its a get to work as fast as possible through stop and go traffic without killing your hands from feathering a clutch for an hour or more each way. Small market. They need to stop resting on their laurels for sure, but this bike is the first EV bike that isn't butt ugly and looks a bit more traditional. If they built a bagger or bobber EV bike, they would broaden their market, but still be up against the majority of harley owners who see their bikes as long distance riders. EV bikes just wont be long distance riders for quite a while.
I degree, you looking at it from one view.. and I understand that but when I look at the onyx rcr it’s a e bike costing 5k .. the rcr has a huge community of riders in nyc and la and maybe of these owner easily drop cost to Del Mar 2 prices modding their 55 mph bike! And they don’t fit the profile you suggest for the Del Mar 2. So why are ppl willing to buy and upgrade an rcr over buying a Del Mar?
Your videos are so good! Jochen must hate your guts. Lol. That your high quality and insightful video’s struggle to get 1000 views says it all. The interest isn’t there because the value proposition is dubious. A motorcycle in our culture is not transportation…it is a fun machine that also connects people. You can neither have fun nor connect with people on a bike with an effective range of 80 miles and limited on the road “refueling” options. Even if the range was 200 miles you still can’t ride with ICE bikes because they’ll have to wait on your one hour charge time. It works for Tesla because cars ARE for transportation. Motorcycles, by and large, just aren’t. If there were millions of well off people commuting on motorcycles then Livewire would be a Fortune 500 company. Well off people do not commute on motorcycles in any significant numbers. Harley took off when the married their bikes with the social aspect of the HOG groups. Perhaps an eHOG group focused on Livewire owners would be a step in the right direction.
They better find a way to make Harley people Livewire people then. That’s were the rabid energy is, not to mention the disposable income and the numbers. Really, it appears there are no Livewire people, Harley or otherwise. They sold, what, 75 bikes last quarter! Would be interested to know if that was a demand limitation or is that all the inventory they had available?
@@LiveWire_Guy They went from being in every HD dealership to, poof, nowhere to be seen. I couldn’t tell you where one is to be found new in Houston. Big mistake abandoning the dealer network. Especially so if “the future of Harley is electric” as was famously said.
@@user-zx4ic7zq2d They didn't seem to in FL. But, when it was uncertain and I was looking for a used Livewire, I decided to buy an ELW because I knew Harley would service it. I had no idea how I would buy an LW1 or get it serviced, at the time because of Harley's signaling they didn't know how they were going distribute the bike.
how does harley davidson attack the broke zoomer market? Livewire E-Bike is the way. Maybe partner with Uber Eats to create financing opportunities for the "customer" (aka brokie zoomer) to make it into a "good" credit purchase that generates income. ;p Now eat ze bugs!!!!
Ebikes have won the urban commuter market. Ebikes are easier to store and most of them have removable batteries. They're also plenty quick for urban environments and don't have to play by the same road rules as motorcycles. The lack of fast charging significantly narrows the appeal of the Del Mar. Level 2 charging isn't sufficient for road trips out of the city.
What’s the point of spending so much time and effort downplaying LiveWire? If you don’t like them or disagree with them, why not move on to something else? If they had harmed you in some way, then this video has a legit purpose and you need to expose that.
In my opinion, LiveWire is the only company that has a chance of success in the electric motorcycle market, short term. I'd love to see them succeed. My videos are an attempt to explain why LIveWire can't seem to sell electric motorcycles in any volume. My hope is that they reconsider their sales and marketing strategy.
As long as they continue to produce gasoline & gas powered vehicles, I'll never own an electric vehicle of any kind...I don't care how it performs, or how fast it charges...I like a fire breathing beast that runs on a tank full of burning dinosaurs...
How can anyone review these bikes if they have not ridden it in the cold/wet over a couple of hundred miles? I dare say they are great if you only ride 20 miles in great weather. Those "great" brakes will kill you on ice with all that lovely top heavy weight.
The one crucial question I didn't hear from the demo ride videos is "Would you buy a LiveWire?" This is a crucial mistake from the marketing team.
Interesting video, but I think the author got the target wrong by limiting it to 18-34-year-olds. There are a large number of guys over 50 who are successful technology people interested in EVs and now want a motorcycle to go with their Tesla. Just sayin!
I agree im one of them. ALL ages are interested PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
I would love to purchase a DelMar, but I have a very short inseam at only 28” and id be afraid of only being able to tiptoe it at stoplights. Now if Livewire will make a proper cruiser with a low seat height, Id be beating fown the door to get one.
Love your videos mate, keep them coming…
I will buy one used once they drop to about 10k. I'm an urban commuter.
we're a few years away from $10k.
Same here. 👍🏿
I really want one, but have never bought a new vehicle and never will. Second objection is that any EV that doesn't warranty the battery and motor for 10+ years is a huge consumer gamble, it would probably take a lifetime warranty to persuade me.
I would consider this bike but no Livewire dealers in my area and I’m not driving 400 miles round trip to buy one. It also needs L2/L3 fast charging. Livewire One charges on L3 in one hour…this isn’t fast considering the size of battery on the bike.
You’re spot on in your assessment.
These traditional manufacturers are blowing a huge demographic.
All of the livewires are suitable to a niche audience that’s still doped up on petrol. These manufacturers have to maintain & convert their believers & curate an entirely new core, in a new & rapidly emerging segment.
I’ll tell you, there are companies that are going to eat their lunch come 2025/6, if they don’t get their acts together.
There are pocket segments that these companies have shied away from : Queensbury Rules, we’re well past that era & those rules no longer apply.
They’re still solving for motorcycle design & fuel; that’s the wrong approach : it’s time to innovate.
Send LiveWire your resume...
Spot on, great analyst of the overall Livewire situation.
Great video. They need this discussion. No wonder HD pulled these from dealerships. I was in a dealership in 2021 and was begged to test ride it. I should have when I had the chance. LOL.
They need to release a bike under 10k atleast.
Harley really needs to just convert one of their baggers into EV with like a 50+kwh battery if they ever want to get the older crowd interested. An electric motorcycle was my first motorcycle and I couldn't be happier, but I only got it because it was basically half off, no way are most first time buyers going to spend $17k-$25k on their first motorcycle that they're going to drop. I'd like to see them make a beginner bike for like that costs closer to $5k to actually get new riders interested in getting their motorcycle license to ride around town. As for me, I'm waiting until Energica comes out with their 200+hp motor bike :) as now I'm willing to spend that much on a bike I know I'll love.
Make a $53k bagger and call it a CeVO and paint it real nice. Give it 350 kW charging capability too. Great tourer.
@@LiveWire_Guy who cares if it weighs over 1000lbs, all it has to do is crush miles going straight
@@Magic_Toaster Yes, who cares? People buy these land yachts all the time and pay a fortune for them. They harley triglide CVO wieghs 1239 lbs and the cash pigs pay MSRP $49,999 for it. The same demo that buys that bought the ELW.
Another insightful video. Good stuff. Have you seen any numbers on pre-sale reservations for the Del Mar?
Not sure what makes me think about 1000. Conversation at test ride?
The Del Mar is still too expensive… I can buy a good number of iCE bikes in the $6-10K range and the Del Mar is still 2x that cost. A price premium for being electric is not realistic. This model needs to be $12-13K, including a base charger. Level 2 and 3 charger options needs to be available thru the dealer too. The better aftermarket seat should be standard and that appears to be the only other complaint I have been able to find. I recently found a used one for 12K and now I’m seriously considering buying it, even though it will take a long trip to pick it up.
If you could go buy a Livewire for around $10k or a Del Mar for around $8k I think they'd sell a little better. You can go but a brand new Honda, Kawasaki or Suzuki liter bike for half the cost of these HD electric bikes. So it's no wonder they're not selling.
Yes a lot better price point.
Young urban commuters will buy an electric bicycle not motorcycle.
Great video! Thanks for the insight. I think you can amp that age a bit more when it comes to the target customers. I'm 39 and would love to have one :) Have you reached out to HD? It would be sad if this beautiful bike is indeed stuck in a cycle of missed opportunity!
Sending good vibes :)
The Brembo brakes themselves on the LW1 arn't that great. The Regen helps the stopping power. From precision and full power and feel, the larger ones as on my Energica are really better.
Prices are the main issue for sure. Also the online thing isn't helping. A trade isn't possible too. It's not like everyone is just a bike collector.
I did the demo ride on the Livewire One last year, and loved it. Looking at your videos and the general attitude from Livewire, I'm really starting to think that Livewire is intentionally sandbagging the brand, likely at the behest of HD.
The same guy is CEO of both companies. I don’t think it’s sandbagging, I just think it’s yesterday’s marketing. The Del Mar will be a winner, though, in spite of this weak effort, and more good stuff in the pipeline.
I want to love this bike I hate shifting gears and I love bone-crushing torque and speed however the two reasons I won't purchase it yet still way overpriced and mileage on a single charge needs to be at least 200 miles on a single charge for me to consider it and I know they could easily do that if they wanted to there's tons of bikes in Europe that go over 200 miles on a single charge so I'll just keep waiting and chugging along with my Hayabusa.
Bombs just waiting to burst 😢
You may be right that the target audience isn't quite right. I'm 57 and currently ride a zero but will probably switch to the Del Mar if it lives up to my expectations on the test ride. That is, if it actually becomes available! Still waiting here in Paris. However, the problem is larger. It's early days for EVs in general and electric motorcyles are even newer and more expensive that their 4 wheel counterparts. Most young people don't have , as you say, over 15k for a first vehicle. But it 5 years, the price will decrease and range will increase exponentially, and the business model will become viable. These are still almost prototypes. I think that the platform will yield real beauties in the coming decade.
I really want to see the Del Mar become available on the market a.s.a.p. It wouldn't surprise me if another brand suddenly appears on the market, just like Stark Varg have done with dirt bikes. One thing is for sure, there's never going to be a 'cheap' electric motorcycle, and buyers are always dubious about a brand they've never heard of before or there isn't an established dealership network. I really want the Del Mar to succeed. And I'd love to have a ride on one.
@@Jonathan-L in the end, I bought a Livewire One yesterday. Fantastic bike, despite being a little heavy
@@tonydare7614 Wow! A big thumbs up to you Tony. I've had a brief ride on a H-D Livewire back in late 2020 (before the branding changed) and was impressed with the acceleration and motor braking (it felt just like the compression of a normal engine, and didn't need to use the rear brake). With no gears to shift or clutch to operate, the bike was fantastic in the city & suburbia. I felt privileged to have a ride, knowing that I wouldn't be able to afford one. I'm 6'2" and felt that the bike didn't fit me well. By the way, did you get a chance to road test the Del Mar, or just decide to get the Livewire One anyway?
@@Jonathan-L thank you! I actually only got to sit on the Del Mar and it won't be available for several months here. But I far preferred the geometry of the One and I'm sure that it will come across in the handling. Anyway, thrilled will the purchase
Take care and ride safe
@@tonydare7614 The good thing about the Livewire One is that it has over 9 years of R&D gone into it, plus broad dealership coverage worldwide (assuming that any H-D dealership is able to assist / support any Livewire owner should it be necessary). By the way, what colour did you get?
I’d love to have it but it’s to far away to get one and I wish they made it shorter like the Rebel 1100 but with the same power and distance so I can ride it every day to work
So I am the target demographic. I have a Honda shadow and a gsxr 600. I loved the hd ELW. I don't mind the range being short. The issue is cost. If it was 7~8 k it would be an acceptable price. I don't see how you can market a 30k bike to the average young rider. 20k is unreasonable. Look at how much sportbike you can get for 10k.
You can pickup a low mileage LIveWire ONE for under $10K.
It’s literally because of the price tag that’s what killing the sales .
You can get a Del Mar for $200 a month on LIveWire's Future Forward program. Considering you don't have to buy gas and there is no maintenance, I think the price is reasonable.
LiveWire should produce scooters & keep the price affordable. Not everyone needs a flat tracker like the Del Mar. Yes, still keep the Del Mar as a model and make the gen 2 better looking & cheaper.
Good idea 👍
Nice vintage two stroke small frame vespa in the background of that first interview. I have 6 vintage vespas and a carbed harley. I have a reservation for the del mar and will be buying it. Their target is tech savvy 30-40 yr olds who currently ride bikes and live in a traffic congested city. This is not a cruiser. Its a get to work as fast as possible through stop and go traffic without killing your hands from feathering a clutch for an hour or more each way. Small market. They need to stop resting on their laurels for sure, but this bike is the first EV bike that isn't butt ugly and looks a bit more traditional. If they built a bagger or bobber EV bike, they would broaden their market, but still be up against the majority of harley owners who see their bikes as long distance riders. EV bikes just wont be long distance riders for quite a while.
I degree, you looking at it from one view.. and I understand that but when I look at the onyx rcr it’s a e bike costing 5k .. the rcr has a huge community of riders in nyc and la and maybe of these owner easily drop cost to Del Mar 2 prices modding their 55 mph bike! And they don’t fit the profile you suggest for the Del Mar 2. So why are ppl willing to buy and upgrade an rcr over buying a Del Mar?
Because a Del Mar requires a motorcycle license, a license plate and insurance.
Your videos are so good! Jochen must hate your guts. Lol. That your high quality and insightful video’s struggle to get 1000 views says it all. The interest isn’t there because the value proposition is dubious. A motorcycle in our culture is not transportation…it is a fun machine that also connects people. You can neither have fun nor connect with people on a bike with an effective range of 80 miles and limited on the road “refueling” options. Even if the range was 200 miles you still can’t ride with ICE bikes because they’ll have to wait on your one hour charge time. It works for Tesla because cars ARE for transportation. Motorcycles, by and large, just aren’t. If there were millions of well off people commuting on motorcycles then Livewire would be a Fortune 500 company. Well off people do not commute on motorcycles in any significant numbers. Harley took off when the married their bikes with the social aspect of the HOG groups. Perhaps an eHOG group focused on Livewire owners would be a step in the right direction.
Harley people are not Livewire people.
They better find a way to make Harley people Livewire people then. That’s were the rabid energy is, not to mention the disposable income and the numbers. Really, it appears there are no Livewire people, Harley or otherwise. They sold, what, 75 bikes last quarter! Would be interested to know if that was a demand limitation or is that all the inventory they had available?
There are LW1s on the showroom floors all over south and central Florida.
@@LiveWire_Guy They went from being in every HD dealership to, poof, nowhere to be seen. I couldn’t tell you where one is to be found new in Houston. Big mistake abandoning the dealer network. Especially so if “the future of Harley is electric” as was famously said.
@@user-zx4ic7zq2d They didn't seem to in FL. But, when it was uncertain and I was looking for a used Livewire, I decided to buy an ELW because I knew Harley would service it. I had no idea how I would buy an LW1 or get it serviced, at the time because of Harley's signaling they didn't know how they were going distribute the bike.
how does harley davidson attack the broke zoomer market? Livewire E-Bike is the way. Maybe partner with Uber Eats to create financing opportunities for the "customer" (aka brokie zoomer) to make it into a "good" credit purchase that generates income. ;p Now eat ze bugs!!!!
72 miles on a full charge on a Livewire Pathetic.
Ebikes have won the urban commuter market. Ebikes are easier to store and most of them have removable batteries. They're also plenty quick for urban environments and don't have to play by the same road rules as motorcycles. The lack of fast charging significantly narrows the appeal of the Del Mar. Level 2 charging isn't sufficient for road trips out of the city.
My Vespa P -150 beats it hands down.
The P-150 is a great ride. I had one for 10 years and sold it for what I paid. However, you can't take it on the freeway...
@@freedomiseverything Very true. But she gets 100+ mpg with my 300 lbs on her. She is my favorite color too orange 🧡🍊. It was the shops last one.
What’s the point of spending so much time and effort downplaying LiveWire? If you don’t like them or disagree with them, why not move on to something else?
If they had harmed you in some way, then this video has a legit purpose and you need to expose that.
In my opinion, LiveWire is the only company that has a chance of success in the electric motorcycle market, short term. I'd love to see them succeed. My videos are an attempt to explain why LIveWire can't seem to sell electric motorcycles in any volume. My hope is that they reconsider their sales and marketing strategy.
As long as they continue to produce gasoline & gas powered vehicles, I'll never own an electric vehicle of any kind...I don't care how it performs, or how fast it charges...I like a fire breathing beast that runs on a tank full of burning dinosaurs...
Biden is working on that
How can anyone review these bikes if they have not ridden it in the cold/wet over a couple of hundred miles? I dare say they are great if you only ride 20 miles in great weather. Those "great" brakes will kill you on ice with all that lovely top heavy weight.