$100 BMW Electric Water Pump and Controlling it with the Holley Term X
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- --Tecomotive Site--
www.tecomotive...
--CWA400 Connector--
www.bmotorspor...
***EDIT: at 10:48 I say maximize flow through the engine, I meant maximize flow through the radiator
At 11:36 you see me copy the table and make a new one to show to how to build one, I forget to set table units to duty cycle, so make sure you do that.
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Going over the electric water pump, What is it, where does it come from?
Comes from various later model BMW’s, mostly 3 series will have them. Do the research or search by part number from tecomotive
This isn’t the high failure rate pump as seen in the N54’s. Those are the CWA 200 pump. Don’t use those.
Benefits:
This pump is capable of flowing 58GPM at 8 pounds of discharge pressure
$700 55GPM at 0 psi for the Meizere (no idler pulley)
Weighs just over 4 lbs
Brushless
Can easily be run without a thermostat.
Small, about the size of a small coffee can
There are controllers available for this pump but I can assure you that the Term X is more than capable of controlling the pump.
These water pumps have a built in speed controller which interprets duty cycle and converts it into pump speed. The PWM signal you are sending the pump is not directly controlling the pump speed, its telling the controller what the speed is. With that said the pump can accept a wide variation of frequencies, between 50-1000Hz, which the Holley can provide easily. Pump speed will obviously change your flow rate. You can omit your thermostat and block the bypass hole behind the thermostat with a freeze plug. I haven’t done this myself, as I made a plug from aluminum, The freeze plug should be about 31mm according to what I see from other sources online. You can also buy the thermostat delete piece from race cast. With this setup you can still run a heater core if you would like, or delete it and plug both ports on the pump. You could loop them if you wanted as well, but you would be wise to insert some sort of a plug in the loop.
With the Holley you will need a pull up resistor, check old electronics, they are everywhere, a multitude of resistors would likely work fine, just try to keep it between 100-10kohm.
LoL! These routinely fail at 60K! BMW FORUMS ARE FULL OF THREADS OF HOW UNRELIABLE THESE ELECTRIC WATER PUMPS ARE
Long story short, These ones don’t, the n54 pumps were by in large, the problem child.
Short story long, I’ve confirmed that with a few BMW techs including searching the forums myself. The plastic ones commonly found on the n54 were smoldering piles of garbage and made by continental, the forums are flooded with posts about them, some were ringers and could go 200k, but many failed before then. There was a pump that looks similar to this, but is much lower flow, the CWA200, that was used on the N51/N52/N52N. Didn’t do much research into that pump because I really wasn’t interested in the lower flow rate. The CWA400 pump, which is what this is, has been largely very reliable, and is found on the n20. Both the CWA200 and CWA400 are made by pierburg While it’s the newest of the pumps, some people have already been putting 100k+ miles on them without issue. I bought the one for my truck with 52k miles, and I’ve put probably another 18k on it since. I’m not worried, but, with how cheap they were on eBay, I bought a spare just in case.
I have 197.000 miles on my BMW, original water pump. Check your information, thoroughly, before bashing people.
You're my Saving Grace right now I am currently switching to a rear-mounted radiator setup. I wasn't trying to spend $1,500 so thank you
I was wondering if you could run one of those high flow BMW pumps with Terminator, one quick search and I immediately find this video. Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to show this.
Anytime!
i literally was just looking at this pump and i really appreciate your groundwork on this pump. I have megasquirt so ill be ordering this pump and returning the BBC pump and running this instead.
This is awesome dude. Definitely going to switch to this pump when I go electric.
Very helpful! The only video I found that gives this information. Thank you
The N20 engine in the UK at least uses part number ending in 715 which is the CWA200
Interesting, it's definitely the 400 here.
My 2013 BMW uses the 400.
Well done. Thx for posting this
Excellent information. Thank you.
Great instructional video. Be interesting to see if the 32 mm freeze plug and the water pump would like a .039 press fit?
Can’t remember what other people have used, I just shaved an aluminum hole saw punch out on the belt sander until a 4lb sledge could stick it in. Freeze plug would be preferable IMO.
Great video! Picked mine up for $75 on eBay used. One thing, you HAVE TO USE 1k ohm resistor or else this will not have correct voltage.
You need a pull-up resistor, period. 1k, 5k,10k, etc. Doesn't matter as long as the pump works. It will not work any differently so long as pump sees a pwm signal. Too much resistor, pwm isn't visible to the pump, too little resistor, you unnecessarily draw too much current generating the pwm signal and risk damaging the Holley output driver. So no, it does not HAVE to be a 1k ohm resistor.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Data on the pump says it has a pull up resistor built in, so what prevents the pwm of the holley driver from working with it??
Christos you read that wrong, the signal has a 10kohm pull down resistor built in.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Ah yes you are correct! Thank you. But even then as you say, as long as a pwm is present the pump will function properly?? The pull down is needed only in case of pwm output malfunction or disconnect right?
@@christos8189 the pull-up resistor that you add is to create the needed 12V+ to the pwm signal. The termx can only pwm to ground. If you don't use a pull-up resistor, nothing is providing positive voltage, so no duty cycle is detected by the pump. No voltage present, pump is off.
Conversely, a 12V signal is seen as 100% duty cycle. With no pwm signal provided (again, we are using a pull up resistor here) the pump sees 100% duty cycle, which puts the pump at 95% rated speed. The output table uses values inverse to conventional wisdom, because you are pwm'ing to ground. 20% duty in Holley is really 80% duty to the pump.
You are the man! Nice video!
58gpm WOW
brisbonvq at 8psi no less
Just found your channel.
Can you go more in detail on gutting the stock pump, running a heater core, and running this pump?
I'm doing a build where i have the LS3 pump, but now have to mount the radiator in the bed of this 1958 Apache truck. Twin turbo. I don't know if this stock mechanical pump will work with the rear mount radiator.
Find me on Instagram and message me, I can help you better that way. Same handle
Thanks for the video. Cool stuff. How do you think this pump would work for a closed loop air to water intercooler system? I haven't looked up Bosch pump specs to compare, but clearly 40mm ports flow multiple times more than 19. But perhaps the restrictions of an AWIC system might not be an ideal use case?
Great work!!! Can I use this pump without PWM at 95 100 %. ? If so how do I hook it up
Yes, feed the signal wire 12v
Great in depth video, will the pump run without an activation time delay?
Yes, if you provide 12v+ to the signal wire it will go straight to 95%
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Not completely bypassed, but using pwm like you have without an activation time delay. My ecu doesn't have activation time delay, but i think i can work my way around it with some conditions such as 0 rpm and time greater than 0.1 sec.
@@linkems just wake it up using 50% duty @150hz as your base speed. That would properly wake it up, I can try without the time delay tomorrow and see what it does
I had a look at the pwm info on this pump as well as watching another video and it seems that anything above 13% duty will be enough to operate the pump. I don't think the activation time delay on your ecu has any effect on the pumps operation. How has your pump been going? still running good?
@@linkems it was running great until I gave her some muriatic acid. Destroyed the upper bearing lol. Was still spinning, just noisy. Replaced with another $50 pump that had 119k on it and it's been great.
~6 mins in and I'm already a fan. Just like a radiator that you don't want to gush (see what I did there?)... I've got more hardcore gearhead information in 6 mins (more than I spend on my GF) than in an entire video elseware. It's like there is a knowledgeable rodder down the street who is willing to share GR8T advice. Ok, gushed a little. Anyhoot. This is a SUB worthy video. And I may even SUB, Un-SUB and SUB again to make sure it went through. As for the
LOL at everyone commenting on these failing at 50kish miles. How many hot rods ever see 50k miles 😀
For real. Most don't even fail until well after 100k. My truck ran a 170k used unit for 3 years before I killed it with pool acid lol. It still ran, but I destroyed the upper bearing. People think this is the same pump as the n54, it's not, not even close.
I was under the impression that this pump did not need PWM control
Not needed if you don't want speed control. Kind of a waste of power to have it on kill all the time though. It pulls nearly 40 amps
How does this installation change with Holley dominator? Is the pull-up resistor avoided if we use pwm+ and the black wire instead of the red wire for signal? Sorry I just barely understand it yet.
Yeah just use pwm + and it will work. Also, pump speed will follow duty cycle instead of working inversely.
With PWM+ on a Dominator will I need the pull up resistor? I don’t understand pull up resistors.
Super video. What motor setup are you cooling with it?
Twin turbo lq4 with a forged bottom end. Still daily driving it with this setup, still on the same pump, even added a thermostat to the setup for winter driving.
I want to run this pump on a 2.3 Ford engine for street and drag racing. Can I eliminate the thermostat completely and control engine temperature on the street with with my Holley PWM output.
Yes, but just understand that the temp control is going to be bouncy.
Do you know if the pump can be mounted in the vertical position? with the suction pointed down?
You can mount it however you want, as long as you get all the air out of the system.
Would this setup be be suitable for a supercharged sbc stroker used as a daily driver?
No reason it wouldn’t work. Mine has been great. I carry a spare used pump on long trips just in case it fails but I don’t worry much about it otherwise. If you are asking if it’s “enough pump” for your combo, the answer is yes
Awesome! Thanks for the quick response. I was researching Davies Craig kits and ran across your video. Super informative. I run Holley's HP ecm and am already using it to control my pwm cooling fans so I was stoked to see this. $400+ vs $100, no brainer. Thanks again.
gotti1034 no problem, you’ll love it.
By any chance would you happen to know the in/out port sizes?
1.5" on both
Any links for the pump? All I am finding are 300 plus and new. Which models and years they on?
Look up, what year BMWs had the N20 engine.
do you know why the table is inverse? i saw same thing running ecumaster black.
ECU master probably does the same thing that Holly does and pulse's ground. If you use a pull-up resistor whether it's internal or external and pulse ground the signal sent to the computer will look inverse to the table output.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers ok makes sense. yes ecumaster pulsed ground
Has anyone had success with running this pump at max for an extended amount of time, a few hours at a time?
I accidentally flashed over my tune with one that didn't have the pin mapped and it was in emergency mode for an hour. Never had an issue.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers I feel like my F3r procharged big block chevy with rear mount radiator will need to run at max speed to keep it cool.
@@TheRealChuckStefanski not likely. 50-75% is most likely all you'll need unless the rear rad is undersized. What's the core size?
15x28 with oem contour fans on it.
@@TheRealChuckStefanski if that's the core size, it will work alright, never used the contour fans myself, but if they flow well, you probably just need the transportation of BTU's and the cwa400 will deliver
Where did you find the pump for $100, did you source a used one?
Used, eBay, I’ve bought 3 so far, all between 55 and 60. Used the ball ever Motorsports pigtail which cost $20
@@scrapmetal_sleepers what kind of milage are you picking them up at and about what milage would you estimate they last?
josh butcher one was 55k, 75k and 110k. They should last 200k or more IMO. From bmw techs I’ve heard from, they rarely ever replace this style. They do a lot of the earlier style ones though. Fcp also sells them new for 274 with a lifetime warranty. Honestly it’s not a bad deal at All.
How many cfms? Thats important
Water pumps aren't rated in CFM! LOL
Lmao these fail under 50k miles. All of them OEM and aftermarket
I have a 2013 BMW N20 with 197,000 miles on it. Still original water pump!