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One of the reasons the fbi raided the building was that a courier reported that there was several orders of weapons and live explosives adressed to the house.
Bonus points: the FBI agent in charge at Waco was also in charge at Ruby Ridge. Someone looked at THAT and said "yeah let's put this guy in charge of an even bigger siege with even more unstable people, this'll go great"
FBI knew what they were doing. They just didn't care. After all, you're a highly powerful branch of the most powerful nation in the world. What is someone gonna do if you kill innocent people? Ask to speak to your manager?
@@b-chroniumproductions3177 or and hear me out. The FBI said "Hey you fucked up before but everyone fucks up. Just try not to do it again." In witch he proceeded to fuck up again.
There was an interview with a U.S. Marshal that was on site in Waco and he said it was the worst handling of a crime scene in his 20 plus years in Law Enforcement. He was appalled by the actions of the FBI treating the burned down compound like a beach party. Their smiling group photos definitely support that statement.
At the time, people were questioning why the ATF was even a separate agency, and there was serious talk of it disbanded or being folded back into the FBI. The ATF called the operation "Showtime" and tipped off the journalist to make sure the raid was filmed. Draw your own conclusions. Also, the local sheriff said he could have picked up Koresh away from the compound, but he wasn't consulted.
Warrant for David's arrest was not announced to any other agencies or unneeded units. The Sheriff was a friend of theirs and could have brought David in earlier when he ran into him at a gas station. Feds are just assholes with guns and badges.
@@johnngrey1 I remember reading this at the time. I think the Sheriff stated that Koresh jogged at the same time on the weekend. But regardless, the ATF wanted this huge spectacle of a raid, and it wasn't necessary if they just need wanted to serve the warrant.
Just want to add, the weapon mods the ATF was concerned with turned out to be crank triggers for SKS pattern rifles. Crank triggers sound like true automatic fire from long distance but aren’t actual full auto. Crank triggers are also 100% legal to own and use.
That EE applies to bumpstocks, not crank triggers. The Gatling gun is explicitly legal in the United States without a tax stamp due to the fact it has a crank trigger. Crank triggers are still for sale all over the place without stamps. gatcrank.com. www.firequest.com/GT125.html Places selling it sometimes call it full auto, but it isn’t legally considered full auto unless you put a drill on the shaft of one. Federally they are legal, some individual states ban them but the bans are not well written legally and one decent lawsuit will bring them all tumbling down.
The funny thing is Trump banned bump stocks but not crank triggers, despite the crank trigger being the item which was used, rather than a bump stock, in the main event leading to the push to ban bump stocks
@@KingHalbatorix I heard it sounded like a crank trigger, but that the gov't claimed the guy used a bump stock. I haven't heard it, so I couldn't speak either way. Funny how Trump has been worse for gun rights so far than Obama (Trump also said that firearms should be seized without due process and only returned after mental evaluation).
@@_JayRamsey_ it wasnt a crank trigger, or bumpstock used, it was an 240b, the fire rate was to long and perfectly consistent to be the ar15 with a bump stock they claimed.
David had an FFL and legally sold firearms. He had all the licenses and payed the taxes. The ATF interviewed multiple gunshops and they all said he had no issues. A man name robert Gonzalez working with the ATF was an insider and saw recievers which he thought could be modified to be machine guns which he didnt pay 200$ tax for. David told the ATF they could check and see for themselves but they refused. This being shortly after ruby ridge, the ATF wanted to raid the compound to regain public support but lost even more when they burned 23 children alive.
We need to execute ATF members, and we need to drop their families too. I hope anybody related to an ATF agent gets to meet a drunk driver in a head on collision.
Don't forget operation "Dancing queen" where the agent in Colorado did a flip on the dance floor , dropped his gun , and when he grabbed it he squeezed the trigger shooting a man in the leg ,then got up and ran off.
That was more of an FBI fuck up than a coordinated operation. Then again Waco and Ruby Ridge started as coordinated operations then became massive fuck ups
@@kennedytheretard975 you know the situation with the feds is fuckin stupid when they said child abuse made them take action on the building. Not the shooting or anything, the children they said were "abused" made them take action, resulting in prolly around 10 kids buring to death.
mr_biohallow _tabletop but like the feds didn’t start the fire, thier only intent is to get them out. In general it was basically them suiciding by starting a fire. So really I feel like the feds are not at to much fault here. Not saying that they didn’t make mistakes but it’s stressful with gun fire and overall a hard situation to get a win out off. So I don’t blame them to much. Like the president said “it’s not our fault nutjobs started a fire and killed them selfs.” Like at least they tried to stop it from happening.
@@lucacuneo7218 They pumped a building full of children with a hot, flammable tear gas while blaring "this is not an assault". The fire started in the top tower area where all the heat from the gas was bound to be trapped. Of course they said they started it themselves and did it to themselves when we can never know but frankly I'm not buying anything the government tries to sell me especially about Waco. They were the ones there to siege innocent americans. They caused the fire no matter how you slice it.
FBI: We gotta go in because..... uh.... the children are getting touched! Later, also FBI: Success! We have stopped the children from being touched! *stands ontop of charred kids bodies proudly*
@@marcoreynolds9340 well technically that's not true cps had been going to the compound and said that no abuse had taken place, so there justification for going in was bullshit as well.
@@omsk5286 well that’s the thing, the diddling accusations came afterwards. The original reason the ATF showed up was because apparently they lacked a license to make and have certain types of guns and modify them, even though they did have that paper work. It’s also gone on record that the ATF shot first. From what I remember 1 out of the 10 survivors claimed that abuse was happening, the claim had basically no backing.
Let's not forget the ATF knew David Koresh went out for a daily run and they could have apprehended him there without issue but chose to go with the cameras rolling. Every single ATF and FBI agent should have been dismissed.
@@pettykittyfam Decided not to look it up huh? You do realize they followed him everyday on his run and did nothing right? They waited until they could make a media splash and then burned a bunch of women and children.
Yeah and it turned out that all of the guns that they had were registered and legal. The report has several obviously bs parts to it. Like an agent saying they saw the Davidians modifying "AK-47 upper receivers for full auto fire" which is obviously bullshit because AK pattern rifles don't have an upper or lower receiver. It's all one piece. Anyone who doesn't know that, doesn't know anything about "modifying for full auto"
Yeah, one thing that never seems to get mentioned is the fact that the Davidians ran a licensed gun shop out of the compound. They were a federally licensed firearms dealer in good standing with the ATF and DOJ at the time. Of course they had a "cache" of firearms- they were operating a retail gun store. The only "evidence" the ATF had that they were modifying weapons for full-auto was the word of a couple of local assholes who had personal issues with the Davidians.
Maybe they ment they were modifying the trigger control group. But yes you are right ATF agents should be knowledgeable about firearms and it is suspicious that they use the wrong terms.
Probably the same way, the ATF had an informant in the group that got kicked out just hours before the raid, they knew who he was and what he was doing. If it wasn’t the journalist, it would have been some other thing that tipped them off, you can’t exactly sneak up on a group with that many connections, people, and resources.
@@ibnyahud I think saying that is similar to generalizing all police to being violent, theres so many divisions of the fbi that do different stuff, some better than others
I think something important to note is that one of the largest pieces of evidence the ATF used as a base for the raid was full auto fire on the compounds ground. The Branch Davidians had purchased a Hellfire device for a mini-14 semi auto rifle, it works similarly (meaning what it does, not how it works) to a bump stock, making a semi auto rifle "full auto". The local sheriff had shown the legal documentation for the device to agents and it's widely believe that charges were falsified in order to push the raid.
I think another note is necessary: The use of military explosive flash grenades were used during the gassing. The gas and explosives are a combination that have caused fires on numerous occasions
@@fiskersproductions I think a third note might be in order about how every single one of the nine survivors said those audio recordings were about Molotov Cocktails to use against the armored vehicles, not lighting the compound on fire
I am convinced that there are two kinds of people that go into law enforcement. Those that want to actually help people, and ravenous psychopaths that want a government issued license to kill.
They passed on numerous of opportunities to arrest Koresh peaceably; including one just days before the all out armed assault in which FBI agents knocked on the door, asked for Koresh, Koresh came to speak to them, they got Koresh to agree to go with them so they could let him shoot one of their M-16s.
@@jonnymac8925 Kpresh made the mistake to trust the Government. the American Fed always wanted to eradicate american independance in all forms. and they hate protestant christians. Koresh was both. and charismatic. and he DID something, trying to create a little autonomous colony. The Feds couldnt let him set a example for others to follow, so they set a example themselves.
One key thing to remember is that many of the same agents were involved in both Ruby Ridge AND Waco... So, it's really not surprising that both incidents have the same notoriety
Now imagine that one of the officers at Waco is elected to be the head of the ATF, but cant even tell congress what the definition of an "assault weapon" is. oh wait, no, thats 100% real
oh, he knows what the definition is, he just doesn't want to say it because it'd just enrage those senators. He was being slippery, he specifically pinned it all on whatever the definition was on the books passed by congress at the time.
The ATF knew the movements/routine of the Davidians like the back of their hands. They knew Koresh left the compound to go for runs, and weekly he went into town on supply runs. There was absolutely no reason the ATF needed to raid the compound when a much simpler solution was available. After Ruby Ridge federal agencies felt they needed a win to restore their standing in the eyes of the American public. Simply arresting Koresh away from the compound was not a big enough story to generate the positive publicity the ATF was looking for. They wanted to be heros in the eyes of the public. When the objective of an investigation no longer has anything to do with the investigation itself you know things are bad!
Even if they arrested him they would still need evidence from the property itself in order to convict him, and even if they convicted him that still wouldn't of stopped the cult (if anything it would've radicalized them further, after all they were already indoctrinated).
@@jessemarchese7245 How would it be randomly? They knew exactly where he was during certain times of the week AWAY FROM THE COMPOUND! If they had enough evidence to serve warrants on several members along with Koresh by trying to kick his door in, then they had enough evidence to arrest him where ever the fuck ever. Once a warrant is issued you are cooked on site!
It wasn't just being heroes. It was also a power play, as well as a scheme to keep the ATF going because many parts of the department were planned to be defunded by the government.
@@saudade7842 So what? Since when was the persecution of religion something that America was meant to stand for? We CAME to America to avoid this shit from the British. From Europe! The whole point of the United States was to do what the Davidians did.
The thing is, they _did_ have other tools. As noted in the video, they had negotiators there who were giving concessions in exchange for releasing people. But they didn't commit to either negotiation OR intimidation; they tried to use both. And how can you negotiate in good faith when you know your side is going to break any agreements you try to make?
@@Werrf1 exactly, so why make agreements in the first place if every agreement you make is broken and it all ends in violence anyway? Sounds like the agency came in thinking they were gonna have to hammer some nails and left having hammered some nails.
@@dcbeats1624 Because an agency is made up of multiple people. It's not like the FBI is a single hive-mind Borg collective, it's made up of people who make decisions, make mistakes, and change their minds. The FBI had no clear game plan for what to do in a situation like this, so they were making it all up as they went along - and they made bad decisions. Incompetence is responsible for far more damage than malice.
@@Werrf1 likely, but my point here is not malice it's that they came in using violence like they do in a great deal of other situations and it ended in violence. The ATF and FBI would go so far out of their way to stop a way of life they didnt agree with as to create false justifications of child abuse. They were snuffed out when they didnt need to be.
@@dcbeats1624 Don't get me wrong, I am by NO means trying to defend the FBI/ATF's handling of the situation. They did pretty much EVERYTHING wrong. I'm just trying to say that the aphorism about hammers and nails doesn't really apply, since they DID try more than one approach, but they didn't commit to a single plan of action, instead flip-flopped back and forth until nobody could trust them.
@@Ariana321 good thing he won’t be able to do jack shit in Texas, cause Texas flipped the government the bird and said they ain’t enforcing any of their unconstitutional edicts.
Yep the cult that had armories, got in a shootout with the ATF and FBI, and light themselves on fire killing their own children, yea sounds like the good guys.
The leader of the cult was a dubious guy at best, but it doesn't excuse what the FBI and ATF did. They had plenty of opportunities to arrest him at other times but they needed some headline thing to make themselves seem like heroes, and the compound burning down was partially a result because the ATF and FBI used flammable tear gas that had proven to ignite itself in the past. There's also the entire right door fiasco, the two doors of the compound were metal and would've survived. The left door had bullet holes going thru both ways, from ATF agents that opened fired and Branch Davidians that returned fire. But the right door would've been a massive piece of evidence that proved who shot first, as the Branch Davidians claimed the ATF were the ones that shot first. Too bad that piece of evidence somehow disappeared.
@@acekiller6753 he’s not saying that the cult were good guys, dummy. He’s saying that the feds’ fuckery and incompetence made the whole situation a lot worse, and made both groups seem in the wrong.
@@cortex8239 Mr. Cool Guy over here with his Neo-Nazi slang. My great great uncle died in Germany to vanquish monsters like you. It's a shame there are still some left.
The true scandal of the Waco Siege was that the planning stage of the operation was never investigated. This is where the operation went wrong. (Calling the operation "Showtime" as its code name is your first clue.) Because the operation involved military personnel and hardware, that brought in the Posse Comitatus Act. The Posse Comitatus Act required/requires the president to personally approve the use of any military gear or personnel in a civilian law enforcement operation. That means someone had to brief Bill Clinton on the operation and present him with the order to sign. So, the question is, "What did they tell Bill Clinton about the operation?" Either they told him that they should arrest Koresh when he went into town to collect the mail, or they didn't. They should have told him that by just surrounding the compound while Koresh was in it that they were trapping him inside and he would likely organize his followers into holding out. That is, they deliberately triggered the siege, because that was exactly what happened. The DOJ field manual has a lot of safety regulations for this kind of operation. By breaking those safety regulations, they knew they were endangering people. And they should have told Clinton that. If they did, then they had no problem. They did their job properly. But, if they didn't, then they should have been prosecuted for the reckless deaths of all 75 of those people. NO ONE WAS PROSECUTED. Instead, Janet Reno, who was not even Attorney General at the time the raid began, stood up and announced that it was her fault because she ordered them to assault the compound. But, by that time, there was nothing else to do. She didn't make the mistake, whoever approved the operation did. But as I said, no one was prosecuted, nor even punished. Janet Reno stayed on as Attorney General for the full 8 years of the Clinton Administration. How can this be if she was at fault? What's interesting is that no one, not the Danforth investigators, nor the US Senate's Judiciary Committee, investigated the planning stage. No one has ever heard a word out of the agents who planned the raid. Either they told Clinton what would happen or they didn't. So if they didn't, why weren't they prosecuted. The only plausible explanation that fits is that Clinton was properly briefed, but decided to risk it anyway. He ignored their warnings. But, why would he do that? Why would he make a show out of the operation, thus calling it "Showtime"? A: Because the first major legislative effort of the Clinton Administration was not Hillarycare, it was the Assault Weapons Ban. For two months, every night, the entire country was treated to a crazy doomsday cult holding off the entire FBI with their 50 caliber anti-armor riflles. Thus proving to the world that the 2nd Amendment was a terrible idea. Since those men are propably still alive, it would be fascinating to hear their explanation for it.
Yep. The gvmt/police/feds/DOJ are NOT your friends. The ATF and FBIs entire histories are absolutely riddled with corruption, crime, and unthinkable evils. They were NEVER the "good guys" in general.
its pretty obvious that the fbi/atf lied about many details about what happened here. Crazy how there are us citizens that will side with blatant liars after they admitted to literal torture, gassing children, and after they walked away from an event that only had 1 side of the story told in which 25 children were burned to death.
I grew up in Waco and left when I was 18. I always knew about the siege (even though it technically didn't take place in Waco), but I never about the history of the Davidians, the details of the situation, and just how long federal forces were at the compound. Thank you for the very informative video!
My father grew up in Waco a number of years before this incident. He went to school at Vanguard (preparatory college? I forget) in Waco, which had a building/hall that belonged to the Davidians at one point. He recounted to me one of the common areas had a doomsday clock on the floor from when it was owned by them. This was maybe 1974-1977
11:08 In Splinter Cell, I get an automatic mission failed for “accidentally” killing any hostages or civilians. You’re telling me a French video game can tell when a mission is a failure instead of the US government.
Most of situations where police/military ends up killing several civilian is because authorities don't want to admit that militaries are expendable. That's cute, but then, what is the point of an army? In a video game, cold heart logic is easy to enforce. Of course, players are expendable if it fits the gameplay.
The lead negotiator made a book. The government was much more incompetent than it's made out to be in this operation, and the 'cult' much less extremist than the government broadcasts made it seem.
yeah they were a bit strange but not threatening to anyone, the whole raid was an excuse to crack down on a group of gun owners the government didn't like.
and they tell everyone "if you don't have anything to hide you don't have anything to fear". Well shit looks like they have lots of things to hide. Why can't it go both ways?
I just realized, this siege is what the map, Oregon (from Rainbow Six: Siege) is based on. Even though the name references a completely different state, the map and Mount Carmel Center look very alike.
Yes! Proof being that there was a similar stand-off not too much after Waco with the Michigan Freemen (I think that's what they were called). They were wanted for passing bad checks, so the Feds were involved. They just waited them out this time, peaceful negotiation and no one died.
Yes, just run the building over and over, starting from one corner, with tanks, untill they have no room to hide. Yo make the come out kinda like rolling a thoothpaste tube
The best explanation for the fire that I've seen is a little of both to blame. In order to stop the style of raid from the first day, they were putting fuel canisters by windows they could then shoot. The canisters would be enough to burn the federal agents, and could be put out relatively easily. When the feds threw the CS grenades (they work like smoke grenades, burning a core to create the smoke) one of them happened to land near enough to one of the containers to ignite it. This caught the flammable CS gas on fire, spreading what was supposed to be a contained flame to the entire complex quickly.
the ATF were probably wanting to copy the SAS when the SAS assaulted the Iranian embassy in london in 1980 to save 26-27/30 hostages that were taken over by Iranian Arab seperatists
The rabbits sound like human babies being tortured. They used the same soundtrack when seizing H.W. Bush's stooge Manuel Noriega out of a catholic church in Panama.
@I Am Sekou in the US, if a criminal points a gun at an officer or runs away carrying a gun, he can be shot because he becomes a danger to both the officer and civilians.
even if you take everything the fbi reported at face value, its a very troubling story, if you cast just a tiny shadow of doubt on the credibility of the testimony, it turn into a much much darker story
Nathan Phillips yeah it’s crazy how they misinterpreted it. There’s tons of photos of fbi dudes posing like badasses in front of the cameras....right after they murdered a bunch of women and children
I lived in Texas at the time and learned *recently* that we took a trip to Houston and Back while this was happening, passing through Waco Before and After.
Let's imagine for a moment - The FBI was telling the truth about one of the kids alleging they had been abused in the compound. Now imagine you are that kid, after the siege.
They where there to kill everyone because - Bill Clinton. Some of the people in the church had evidence of Clinton drug smuggling business. FBI killed everyone hiding the concrete section of the compound with a bunker-buster. Mostly woman and kids.
They could've arrested Koresh and his top guys whenever they left the compound to go to a gun show but the top bosses in the atf wanted to put on a big show for the media.
really liked the show, but it was obviously biased. THe thing that stands out to me most is how in the show they chalk the fire up to the tear gas, but this vid mentions the voice recordings of the davidians spreading fuel, which is strange they left that out of the show, unless they were purposefully trying to paint a certain picture.
@@Maulstrum97 Im sorry, I woulda believed some of what this video claimed if he wasn't named black pilled, called cnn fake news (they're shit but cmon) and used the term "deep state." While I do think the feds massively fucked up at waco and got everyone killed, this video kinda shoots itself in the foot
Yeah you mentioned the siege at the beginning of the video when I was like "is this just a remastered version of the last one?" Of course, Waco is a wackass event which is definitely more insane than the Ruby Ridge siege
Kenneth Miller where was this documented?? And do you have a source for any of this info it kind of seems like it’s off f a whim but I’m just another person from the internet so I’m kinda oblivious to this important stuff I should be knowing
It's been a while, but if memory serves, the primary impetus was Koresh bouncing checks and supposedly reactivating de-milled frag grenades. The post fire pictures that came out later are particularly ghoulish. You can literally see burned human remains in the background. Disgusting.
I actually know a guy who was at Waco with his gf and her son. After being there a while he realised how crazy it was and left about 2 weeks before shit hit the fan.
dont know what you expect from a religious cult but i dont see the problem if they arent hurting anyone. and considering there weren't illegals guns or any pedophilia happening let the idiots believe whatever they want. there are plenty of idiots that believe things much less logical, even some illogical things that 4/10 people would tell you as fact
@@fireman1226576 The first amendment ensures you can believe anything under the sun. You have religious freedom. Heads needed to roll at the FBI and ATF, and the fact they didn't should tell you all you need to know about our government.
Would you be willing to say his name? I've met several of the surviving members of the Branch Davidians, and I'm sure they'd have something interesting to say if I mention him to them
@@commie_slayer4287 They had already discovered informants within them so they knew it was a matter of time until they were raided. Plus the FBI knew exactly when their leader left for supply runs so they could've just taken him then instead of making a big scene for no reason.
This is what happens when the government starts dealing guns. One doesn’t have to agree with the victims, but can agree that handling them can be done way better. Never matters who fired first, especially since the ATF tried doing a “ sting operation “ with guns they sold to the militants, cults, and later to the cartels.
You're putting the case for FBI here better than FBI did while it happened. Several FLIR experts analyzed the footage that came from the day of fire happening, and concluded that FBI officers were shooting in the direction of building complex and that the fires were most likely started by FBI tanks. You also forgot to mention, that David Koresh actually called police when ATF raided them at the first time. Not only was the raid completely unwarranted - people from mt. Caramel were selling guns and gun shows, and that's why they "stockpiled" them, but also the modifications claims never had proof, along with ATF creating story of Koresh being a pedophile, which also had no proof shown. Officials had a chance to arrest Koresh several times when he was outside the compound. Not even official documentaries show this event in neutral light for FBI and ATF, since what happened there was full on mass homicide. FBI supposedly had whole compound bugged, yet they have never released the tapes of people inside actually talking about ingiting fire. Also the gas used was highly flammable, and was known to be dangerous especially for children in closed areas and high concentrations. The _official_ story presented by gov absolutely doesn't hold, and people who gave orders for that should get a chair, along with all agents there being at least charged with manslaughter.
They have released the audio bugs. However, they were edited, by the FBI's own admission, because of how hard they were to hear. As a sidenote, the FBI cut their power, so they had to heat their home during an unusually cold Texas April, with fire, and used laterns to see at night. Some surviving Davidians theorize a tank knocked over a lantern, and that was the flame the gas needed to ignite. However, not all agree. The only thing that's basically universally agreed on is that they didn't set the fire themselves. No surviving Davidians, minus a very small handful, say the fire was set by them. If memory serves out of all the survivors there's 2 or 3 who said it was sent intentionally, and only one was there on the day of the fire itself
Non Americans always ask us why we are so wary of the govt and why we love our guns. This. This is why. (I'm kidding ATF, please don't raid my house or shoot my dog!)
@@thehandliesthandle It really isn't at the moment but there's a very real risk that it might if we let our guard down. Govt has been slowly but surely overstepping their bounds for a while. Unfortunately, we have an entire party here that is anti-human rights and pro big govt. They want huge govt programs funded by taxpayer money while infringing on our 1A, 2A, etc.
@@chinchilla641 they use tax dollars for wars people don't want, you have the highest incarceration rate in the world. I would say its tyrannical to a certain extent. The fbi recently did a vitamin C raid which i found comical
@@thehandliesthandle Yea, Obama and the neo con Republicans like Bush are all about wars but thankfully our current president hasn't started any conflicts thus far. I hope it stays that way.
If there hadn't been guns at the ranch, this never would have happened. It was the presence of firearms on the ranch that not only precipitated the raid itself, but also turned it into a siege. It's a vicious cycle. People are afraid of "The Government", so they arm themselves. Police know people might be armed, so they carry more, bigger guns. People need to defend themselves against the bigger guns, so they get more guns. Police know... etc. I'm not trying to excuse what happened at Waco, and I'm not saying I know the perfect solution, but the attitude of "we have to defend ourselves against The Government" is NOT a solution. It's the problem.
At least a couple things in this story would be considered a break on the Geneva convention, but since it's the American government doing it to their own citizens it's ok. Very cool.
If anybody was wondering the map “Oregon” is based off of this. It’s interesting because you can see little hints around the map that are connected to the event
Phantyr Yep. Actually, almost all maps are based of historical events, like for example the map “Consulate” is a reference to the Iranian embassy siege, or the plane map, based of the Air France hijacking.
You're right actually. They only thought that was the weapons room. No evidence whatsoever of it. It was in fact one of the kid rooms. They kept all their weapons in a room off the kitchen.
definitely fabricated, even modern testimony of the event is riddled with lies from agents involved that can be so easily disproved with just a basic understanding of logic and 2+2=4
When the ATF wants you to be guilty, they’ll make you guilty. Then when they’re in over their heads, they’ll go crying to local authorities to do the hard work for them.
Ive noticed the game Postal 2 references this event. The area is even called "compound" or "the compound" where you gotta deliver a present to your uncle
And another mention: At 9:45 in the video the narrator mentions that the tank which was knocking a hole in the building was taking fire from the Davidians inside, but the FBI did not shoot back. This is false. Some years ago 60 Minutes ran a segment on that part of the seige, showing a view from the air that was done using a FLIR camera (a camera that is sensitive to light in the near-infrared part of the spectrum). The segment included an expert on this technology who pointed out very plainly that the tank was flanked by troops on both sides who were firing into the building. The muzzle flashes are clearly visible in the scenes. The logic behind making holes in the building was that Davidians who wanted to surrender would escape through these holes, but no one did. Well gee whiz FBI, could all that incoming have had something to do with their refusal? Edit: The 60 Minutes host doing this segment admitted on air that it had sat on this story for some time because it was so damming to the FBI. It seems the "mainstream media" was even more skittish because 60 Minutes was the only place that brought this to light.
@@garethjones209 why do you want the government to be the good guys because its horrible to realize you live under the most evil regime in human history
The fact that "Illegal Firearms" was the motivation behind the raid is enough for me to say that the Feds attacked first. "Shall not be infringed" is a /very/ clear statement.
It really wasnt even the "illegal firearms" the atf's warrant made heavy emphasis on the allegations that koresh was a pedo, which is waaayy outside their jurisdiction
They were worried about a group of singular thinking individuals owning weapons so they went to raid them and killed them, sounds like tyranny to me when you kill people who’ve done nothing wrong who want to bare arms
Before the siege, the only thing I knew about Waco was that the AM radio stations in Waco and Ware, Massachusetts, were the only ones whose call letters were the same as the town names.
I remeber I got to interview and talk to Gary Noesner, the head negotiator, he was a very interesting man, and honestly very humble and extremely aware of everything at the compound, it felt like he knew what everyone was feeling, man was incredibly smart
@Anonymous Person So he bombed a daycare center..i'd really like to see how you spin this? The saying is, after all, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
The FBI Hostage Rescue Team wanted to take the raid by themselves and according to a retired HRT agent he said that the raid would been smoother if they took it
My brother not only met David Koresh but he worked on one of his private planes before the Waco incident and actually invited him to join the cult, to this day my brother still has the "business card" David gave him. When I was a kid I would walk by one of the houses David owned in La Verne California and I would see a bunch of women of all ages working in the yard cleaning up, it was creepy as hell to see these people working and not talking to each other.
you know that in Waco they were paying their taxes right? While 'Duncan Lemp' case was bad. it is hardly the best example of why no knock raids are bad
Don’t forget that CS gas in an enclosed area is flammable, and if you look it up there have been many cases of it being used and then a fire starts not long after
Grew up in copperas cove, about 45 minutes from Waco. Never really understood what happened. Just knew it was a cult, and that after a long siege, it was burnt to a crisp
@@Starfighter-nk4mo someone did a cover of it with minimal changes, to make it into an Irish punk anthem, presumably about the IRA. And yeah, when you change the frame of reference, that song is awesome. I was thinking of it the entire time. "They have bombs and they have tanks, Because there's money in the banks"
Davidians: Has Illegal guns ATF: GET THE DOGS "the first shots were fired by the ATF "dog team" sent to kill the dogs in the Branch Davidian kennel" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege Classic ATF
Edit: In the video I mistakenly say Jonestown was 1987 instead of 1978.
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Nice
I eat poop
Yes
One of the reasons the fbi raided the building was that a courier reported that there was several orders of weapons and live explosives adressed to the house.
Bonus points: the FBI agent in charge at Waco was also in charge at Ruby Ridge. Someone looked at THAT and said "yeah let's put this guy in charge of an even bigger siege with even more unstable people, this'll go great"
FBI knew what they were doing. They just didn't care.
After all, you're a highly powerful branch of the most powerful nation in the world. What is someone gonna do if you kill innocent people? Ask to speak to your manager?
Monomi yet, we all know how brain dead the government can be
Monomi innocent people?
@@b-chroniumproductions3177 have 300 million civilians up in arms, not exactly but you get my point.
@@b-chroniumproductions3177 or and hear me out. The FBI said "Hey you fucked up before but everyone fucks up. Just try not to do it again." In witch he proceeded to fuck up again.
“One is killed by fire from a water tower”
Never thought I’d hear that one
That’s dark lmaoo
Did the water tower speak english?
Irony huh
DOOOOON'T DOWNLOAD THIS SOOOONG!
get spawnpeeked
This is the event the R6 siege map ‘Oregon’ map is based off
Cool! That actually makes a lot of sense now.
oh shit, how did I not notice that.
Damn i knew I recognised the building
When I saw the side view of the Waco complex I knew I had seen it somewhere before
yeah, a lot of, maybe 90% of everything in siege is based off a real life event, google what Fuzes gadget is based off
There was an interview with a U.S. Marshal that was on site in Waco and he said it was the worst handling of a crime scene in his 20 plus years in Law Enforcement. He was appalled by the actions of the FBI treating the burned down compound like a beach party. Their smiling group photos definitely support that statement.
At the time, people were questioning why the ATF was even a separate agency, and there was serious talk of it disbanded or being folded back into the FBI. The ATF called the operation "Showtime" and tipped off the journalist to make sure the raid was filmed. Draw your own conclusions. Also, the local sheriff said he could have picked up Koresh away from the compound, but he wasn't consulted.
bullshit
Warrant for David's arrest was not announced to any other agencies or unneeded units. The Sheriff was a friend of theirs and could have brought David in earlier when he ran into him at a gas station. Feds are just assholes with guns and badges.
@@half-kratos21 Prove me wrong with sources.
@@johnngrey1 I remember reading this at the time. I think the Sheriff stated that Koresh jogged at the same time on the weekend. But regardless, the ATF wanted this huge spectacle of a raid, and it wasn't necessary if they just need wanted to serve the warrant.
@@jdraven0890 Prove ME wrong with sources.
ruby ridge happens.
FBI: let's do a sequel.
But this time with tanks and fireballs...
Yeah but this time lets bring a tank, all good sequels need to be bigger!
Waco was first though. :-/
So they can make 2 moneys.
ruby ridge 2: electric boogaloo!
Just want to add, the weapon mods the ATF was concerned with turned out to be crank triggers for SKS pattern rifles. Crank triggers sound like true automatic fire from long distance but aren’t actual full auto. Crank triggers are also 100% legal to own and use.
scott _hunts not anymore though thanks to Trump
That EE applies to bumpstocks, not crank triggers.
The Gatling gun is explicitly legal in the United States without a tax stamp due to the fact it has a crank trigger.
Crank triggers are still for sale all over the place without stamps.
gatcrank.com. www.firequest.com/GT125.html
Places selling it sometimes call it full auto, but it isn’t legally considered full auto unless you put a drill on the shaft of one. Federally they are legal, some individual states ban them but the bans are not well written legally and one decent lawsuit will bring them all tumbling down.
The funny thing is Trump banned bump stocks but not crank triggers, despite the crank trigger being the item which was used, rather than a bump stock, in the main event leading to the push to ban bump stocks
@@KingHalbatorix
I heard it sounded like a crank trigger, but that the gov't claimed the guy used a bump stock. I haven't heard it, so I couldn't speak either way.
Funny how Trump has been worse for gun rights so far than Obama (Trump also said that firearms should be seized without due process and only returned after mental evaluation).
@@_JayRamsey_ it wasnt a crank trigger, or bumpstock used, it was an 240b, the fire rate was to long and perfectly consistent to be the ar15 with a bump stock they claimed.
David had an FFL and legally sold firearms. He had all the licenses and payed the taxes. The ATF interviewed multiple gunshops and they all said he had no issues. A man name robert Gonzalez working with the ATF was an insider and saw recievers which he thought could be modified to be machine guns which he didnt pay 200$ tax for. David told the ATF they could check and see for themselves but they refused. This being shortly after ruby ridge, the ATF wanted to raid the compound to regain public support but lost even more when they burned 23 children alive.
After every report in existence shows that the inhabitants started the fires... you fucking clowns still insist on blaming the government.
AMMMMURIKA
The ATF burned noone, the FBI did
AND on top of that,the children didn’t do ANYTHING
We need to execute ATF members, and we need to drop their families too. I hope anybody related to an ATF agent gets to meet a drunk driver in a head on collision.
Don't forget operation "Dancing queen" where the agent in Colorado did a flip on the dance floor , dropped his gun , and when he grabbed it he squeezed the trigger shooting a man in the leg ,then got up and ran off.
I had forgotten.
That was more of an FBI fuck up than a coordinated operation. Then again Waco and Ruby Ridge started as coordinated operations then became massive fuck ups
Eh. More like another fed being a idiot.
360 NO SCOPE!
@@hihi-dz6dx lmao
God Bless America
"After 2 hours of shooting, the ATF is running out of ammo"
you know the situation with the feds is high when they start to run out of ammo
@@kennedytheretard975 you know the situation with the feds is fuckin stupid when they said child abuse made them take action on the building. Not the shooting or anything, the children they said were "abused" made them take action, resulting in prolly around 10 kids buring to death.
@@bigben9492 kids are being hurt! We need to take action
Causes the whole fuvking building to burn down killing kids
mr_biohallow _tabletop but like the feds didn’t start the fire, thier only intent is to get them out. In general it was basically them suiciding by starting a fire. So really I feel like the feds are not at to much fault here. Not saying that they didn’t make mistakes but it’s stressful with gun fire and overall a hard situation to get a win out off. So I don’t blame them to much. Like the president said “it’s not our fault nutjobs started a fire and killed them selfs.” Like at least they tried to stop it from happening.
@@lucacuneo7218 They pumped a building full of children with a hot, flammable tear gas while blaring "this is not an assault". The fire started in the top tower area where all the heat from the gas was bound to be trapped. Of course they said they started it themselves and did it to themselves when we can never know but frankly I'm not buying anything the government tries to sell me especially about Waco. They were the ones there to siege innocent americans. They caused the fire no matter how you slice it.
FBI: We gotta go in because..... uh.... the children are getting touched!
Later, also FBI: Success! We have stopped the children from being touched! *stands ontop of charred kids bodies proudly*
Ahhh, the name of the FBI dude standing in that famed pic is Christopher Withcomb. He did a live back then trying to justify the unjustifiable
and it's never actually been confirmed that Koresh was a diddler
@@marcoreynolds9340 well technically that's not true cps had been going to the compound and said that no abuse had taken place, so there justification for going in was bullshit as well.
@@omsk5286 that's what I said.
@@omsk5286 well that’s the thing, the diddling accusations came afterwards. The original reason the ATF showed up was because apparently they lacked a license to make and have certain types of guns and modify them, even though they did have that paper work. It’s also gone on record that the ATF shot first. From what I remember 1 out of the 10 survivors claimed that abuse was happening, the claim had basically no backing.
Let's not forget the ATF knew David Koresh went out for a daily run and they could have apprehended him there without issue but chose to go with the cameras rolling. Every single ATF and FBI agent should have been dismissed.
Should have been arrested and charged
🙄 tell me you don't know what you're talking about in one comment 😂
@@pettykittyfam Decided not to look it up huh? You do realize they followed him everyday on his run and did nothing right? They waited until they could make a media splash and then burned a bunch of women and children.
then crime would go wild
did anyone learn from the whole defund the police fiasco
*executed
Yeah and it turned out that all of the guns that they had were registered and legal. The report has several obviously bs parts to it. Like an agent saying they saw the Davidians modifying "AK-47 upper receivers for full auto fire" which is obviously bullshit because AK pattern rifles don't have an upper or lower receiver. It's all one piece. Anyone who doesn't know that, doesn't know anything about "modifying for full auto"
Guns don’t have to be registered in the US, especially Texas, unless they are full auto or SBRs
@@harrisonfuller5015 they were buying them for resale so they all had to be logged and tagged.
@@harrisonfuller5015 they even invited the ATF to come and inspect them but the feds declined.
Yeah, one thing that never seems to get mentioned is the fact that the Davidians ran a licensed gun shop out of the compound. They were a federally licensed firearms dealer in good standing with the ATF and DOJ at the time. Of course they had a "cache" of firearms- they were operating a retail gun store. The only "evidence" the ATF had that they were modifying weapons for full-auto was the word of a couple of local assholes who had personal issues with the Davidians.
Maybe they ment they were modifying the trigger control group. But yes you are right ATF agents should be knowledgeable about firearms and it is suspicious that they use the wrong terms.
Imagine how it would have turned out if the journalist didn't open his mouth.
Probably the same way, the ATF had an informant in the group that got kicked out just hours before the raid, they knew who he was and what he was doing. If it wasn’t the journalist, it would have been some other thing that tipped them off, you can’t exactly sneak up on a group with that many connections, people, and resources.
Then the 9 survivors would also be dead
Most likely a mass suicide.
probably less dead, but still a lot of dead, but the raid would have had a better go, maybe not a siege after all.
The would have been Epsteined.
I think Qxir doesn't like the FBI
patriotic Americans don't like the FBI
they are a corrupt organization full of lying sociopaths
@@ibnyahud qxir is irish
@@boonanaman2739 yeah, that's my point...how much more so a non-American would find the FBI sketchy ...
@@ibnyahud I think saying that is similar to generalizing all police to being violent, theres so many divisions of the fbi that do different stuff, some better than others
lekroc he is smarter than people give him credit for
I think something important to note is that one of the largest pieces of evidence the ATF used as a base for the raid was full auto fire on the compounds ground. The Branch Davidians had purchased a Hellfire device for a mini-14 semi auto rifle, it works similarly (meaning what it does, not how it works) to a bump stock, making a semi auto rifle "full auto". The local sheriff had shown the legal documentation for the device to agents and it's widely believe that charges were falsified in order to push the raid.
I think another note is necessary: The use of military explosive flash grenades were used during the gassing. The gas and explosives are a combination that have caused fires on numerous occasions
@@fiskersproductions I think a third note might be in order about how every single one of the nine survivors said those audio recordings were about Molotov Cocktails to use against the armored vehicles, not lighting the compound on fire
@@fiskersproductionson CS gas cans it says flammable; keep away from open spark
Every Siege player is siting here like “I think I’ve seen this before”
Best map
Oh noes
I was like hmm, they are missing a small tower
Fbi: "no u have not this is brand new"
Bro
Edit: I love that map XD Themithe is best for the map fight me if u think not
In court the government referred to their grenades as “rapidly expanding gas devices.”
Technically, true
They literally are lol
They left out their incendiary characteristics.
Concussive stun grenades are.
In fact, almost all grenades period are. Some just have shrapnel, or light the expanding gas on fire.
Verbose Grenade
“But when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail” is a really good quote
Its actually a quite famous one
I am convinced that there are two kinds of people that go into law enforcement. Those that want to actually help people, and ravenous psychopaths that want a government issued license to kill.
There is a third kind. Veterans who join because they don’t fit in anywhere else.
@@tetraxis3011so ravenous psychopaths who want a government issued license to kill
Yes
DING DING DING!!!!!!! You are correct!!!!!
and fourth,idiots who are entitled to their opinion
They passed on numerous of opportunities to arrest Koresh peaceably; including one just days before the all out armed assault in which FBI agents knocked on the door, asked for Koresh, Koresh came to speak to them, they got Koresh to agree to go with them so they could let him shoot one of their M-16s.
That whole situation you just described is a bit "wtf". I am not sure who is the dumber of the two, Koresh or the FBI? Lol
They never had a case that's why they did what they did
@@jonnymac8925 Kpresh made the mistake to trust the Government. the American Fed always wanted to eradicate american independance in all forms. and they hate protestant christians. Koresh was both. and charismatic. and he DID something, trying to create a little autonomous colony. The Feds couldnt let him set a example for others to follow, so they set a example themselves.
Well.. like Gooses say to us.. Peaceful was never an option
Thank you Janet Reno.
As a wise man once said
"Life has many windows fed boi"
"rolfs tractor is not for sale"
@@ShupekMan Because freedom is bad? ... Soviet brainwashing too stronk
when you take a picture in wakeco
Rolf approves
@@ShupekMan Fuck you sound nice and stable
There’s a lot of ways to describe the Waco siege, but my favorite term is a “clusterfuck”
deliberate clusterfuck
Murder. They went there for one intent and this was it get rid of the Davidians but I don’t think they were expecting the mothers to stay.
Weimar Republic works too
fuck the fbi lmao, im American and i hate the feds
One key thing to remember is that many of the same agents were involved in both Ruby Ridge AND Waco... So, it's really not surprising that both incidents have the same notoriety
Now imagine that one of the officers at Waco is elected to be the head of the ATF, but cant even tell congress what the definition of an "assault weapon" is.
oh wait, no, thats 100% real
oh, he knows what the definition is, he just doesn't want to say it because it'd just enrage those senators. He was being slippery, he specifically pinned it all on whatever the definition was on the books passed by congress at the time.
I'm from the future, and I have good news...
3:34 look at that beautiful pontiac
12:14 is the guy himself
An "assault weapon"? Yeah I can answer that. It's any object used as a weapon to assault someone. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that
The ATF knew the movements/routine of the Davidians like the back of their hands. They knew Koresh left the compound to go for runs, and weekly he went into town on supply runs. There was absolutely no reason the ATF needed to raid the compound when a much simpler solution was available. After Ruby Ridge federal agencies felt they needed a win to restore their standing in the eyes of the American public. Simply arresting Koresh away from the compound was not a big enough story to generate the positive publicity the ATF was looking for. They wanted to be heros in the eyes of the public. When the objective of an investigation no longer has anything to do with the investigation itself you know things are bad!
Even if they arrested him they would still need evidence from the property itself in order to convict him, and even if they convicted him that still wouldn't of stopped the cult (if anything it would've radicalized them further, after all they were already indoctrinated).
No they didn't have enough evidence to scoop him randomly
@@jessemarchese7245 How would it be randomly? They knew exactly where he was during certain times of the week AWAY FROM THE COMPOUND!
If they had enough evidence to serve warrants on several members along with Koresh by trying to kick his door in, then they had enough evidence to arrest him where ever the fuck ever. Once a warrant is issued you are cooked on site!
It wasn't just being heroes. It was also a power play, as well as a scheme to keep the ATF going because many parts of the department were planned to be defunded by the government.
@@saudade7842 So what? Since when was the persecution of religion something that America was meant to stand for? We CAME to America to avoid this shit from the British. From Europe! The whole point of the United States was to do what the Davidians did.
"when your only tool is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail"
The thing is, they _did_ have other tools. As noted in the video, they had negotiators there who were giving concessions in exchange for releasing people. But they didn't commit to either negotiation OR intimidation; they tried to use both. And how can you negotiate in good faith when you know your side is going to break any agreements you try to make?
@@Werrf1 exactly, so why make agreements in the first place if every agreement you make is broken and it all ends in violence anyway? Sounds like the agency came in thinking they were gonna have to hammer some nails and left having hammered some nails.
@@dcbeats1624 Because an agency is made up of multiple people. It's not like the FBI is a single hive-mind Borg collective, it's made up of people who make decisions, make mistakes, and change their minds. The FBI had no clear game plan for what to do in a situation like this, so they were making it all up as they went along - and they made bad decisions.
Incompetence is responsible for far more damage than malice.
@@Werrf1 likely, but my point here is not malice it's that they came in using violence like they do in a great deal of other situations and it ended in violence. The ATF and FBI would go so far out of their way to stop a way of life they didnt agree with as to create false justifications of child abuse. They were snuffed out when they didnt need to be.
@@dcbeats1624 Don't get me wrong, I am by NO means trying to defend the FBI/ATF's handling of the situation. They did pretty much EVERYTHING wrong. I'm just trying to say that the aphorism about hammers and nails doesn't really apply, since they DID try more than one approach, but they didn't commit to a single plan of action, instead flip-flopped back and forth until nobody could trust them.
"We investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing."
- The US Government
Now the fbi agent that was present and had a hand in both ruby ridge and waco is now up for being the head of the atf.
David Chipman.... according to Biden he is the “perfect” person to be head of the ATF.
@@howardbaxter2514 Chipmen is a Phukup
@ulfrick11: Chipman is his name,
Disarming Americans is his game.
He belongs in prison for murder, not at the head of any fucking federal agency.
@@Ariana321 good thing he won’t be able to do jack shit in Texas, cause Texas flipped the government the bird and said they ain’t enforcing any of their unconstitutional edicts.
I never thought that the FBI could make a *cult* sound like the good guys
Yep the cult that had armories, got in a shootout with the ATF and FBI, and light themselves on fire killing their own children, yea sounds like the good guys.
The leader of the cult was a dubious guy at best, but it doesn't excuse what the FBI and ATF did. They had plenty of opportunities to arrest him at other times but they needed some headline thing to make themselves seem like heroes, and the compound burning down was partially a result because the ATF and FBI used flammable tear gas that had proven to ignite itself in the past.
There's also the entire right door fiasco, the two doors of the compound were metal and would've survived. The left door had bullet holes going thru both ways, from ATF agents that opened fired and Branch Davidians that returned fire. But the right door would've been a massive piece of evidence that proved who shot first, as the Branch Davidians claimed the ATF were the ones that shot first. Too bad that piece of evidence somehow disappeared.
@@acekiller6753 he’s not saying that the cult were good guys, dummy. He’s saying that the feds’ fuckery and incompetence made the whole situation a lot worse, and made both groups seem in the wrong.
@@acekiller6753 Glowie. Super glowie.
@@cortex8239 Mr. Cool Guy over here with his Neo-Nazi slang. My great great uncle died in Germany to vanquish monsters like you. It's a shame there are still some left.
I'm so early the FBI has just started pumping CS gas in the building.
Don Paulsen I’m so early the spetsnaz are doing the same to my theatre
aBandit Dude why are they shooting at my theatre with an apc??? help
They're using HL:OP Gas instead over here.
Sorry for any inconveniences, but i'm going to clean the Barnacles from my kitchen.
The true scandal of the Waco Siege was that the planning stage of the operation was never investigated. This is where the operation went wrong. (Calling the operation "Showtime" as its code name is your first clue.) Because the operation involved military personnel and hardware, that brought in the Posse Comitatus Act. The Posse Comitatus Act required/requires the president to personally approve the use of any military gear or personnel in a civilian law enforcement operation. That means someone had to brief Bill Clinton on the operation and present him with the order to sign. So, the question is, "What did they tell Bill Clinton about the operation?" Either they told him that they should arrest Koresh when he went into town to collect the mail, or they didn't. They should have told him that by just surrounding the compound while Koresh was in it that they were trapping him inside and he would likely organize his followers into holding out. That is, they deliberately triggered the siege, because that was exactly what happened. The DOJ field manual has a lot of safety regulations for this kind of operation. By breaking those safety regulations, they knew they were endangering people. And they should have told Clinton that. If they did, then they had no problem. They did their job properly. But, if they didn't, then they should have been prosecuted for the reckless deaths of all 75 of those people. NO ONE WAS PROSECUTED. Instead, Janet Reno, who was not even Attorney General at the time the raid began, stood up and announced that it was her fault because she ordered them to assault the compound. But, by that time, there was nothing else to do. She didn't make the mistake, whoever approved the operation did. But as I said, no one was prosecuted, nor even punished. Janet Reno stayed on as Attorney General for the full 8 years of the Clinton Administration. How can this be if she was at fault? What's interesting is that no one, not the Danforth investigators, nor the US Senate's Judiciary Committee, investigated the planning stage. No one has ever heard a word out of the agents who planned the raid. Either they told Clinton what would happen or they didn't. So if they didn't, why weren't they prosecuted. The only plausible explanation that fits is that Clinton was properly briefed, but decided to risk it anyway. He ignored their warnings. But, why would he do that? Why would he make a show out of the operation, thus calling it "Showtime"? A: Because the first major legislative effort of the Clinton Administration was not Hillarycare, it was the Assault Weapons Ban. For two months, every night, the entire country was treated to a crazy doomsday cult holding off the entire FBI with their 50 caliber anti-armor riflles. Thus proving to the world that the 2nd Amendment was a terrible idea. Since those men are propably still alive, it would be fascinating to hear their explanation for it.
Yep. The gvmt/police/feds/DOJ are NOT your friends. The ATF and FBIs entire histories are absolutely riddled with corruption, crime, and unthinkable evils. They were NEVER the "good guys" in general.
This is the first time I've heard about the posse comitatus act. The more you know. Thanks for the knowledge.
For a guy who was willing to kill and die for his beliefs, letting unwilling members of his group leave is a pretty altruistic move.
its pretty obvious that the fbi/atf lied about many details about what happened here. Crazy how there are us citizens that will side with blatant liars after they admitted to literal torture, gassing children, and after they walked away from an event that only had 1 side of the story told in which 25 children were burned to death.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
@@lesthodson2802 HE WAS A CHILD MOLESTER
You better do more research.
I grew up in Waco and left when I was 18. I always knew about the siege (even though it technically didn't take place in Waco), but I never about the history of the Davidians, the details of the situation, and just how long federal forces were at the compound. Thank you for the very informative video!
Yeah, I watched this unfold on TV at the time, and did not know the early history of the group, either
The guns that the ATF was after was given back to the Branch Davidians a couple of weeks prior to the siege.
My father grew up in Waco a number of years before this incident. He went to school at Vanguard (preparatory college? I forget) in Waco, which had a building/hall that belonged to the Davidians at one point. He recounted to me one of the common areas had a doomsday clock on the floor from when it was owned by them. This was maybe 1974-1977
@@stanstrum that's surreal. Had no idea the group had holdings besides that compound. Thanks for sharing.
11:08 In Splinter Cell, I get an automatic mission failed for “accidentally” killing any hostages or civilians. You’re telling me a French video game can tell when a mission is a failure instead of the US government.
Most of situations where police/military ends up killing several civilian is because authorities don't want to admit that militaries are expendable. That's cute, but then, what is the point of an army?
In a video game, cold heart logic is easy to enforce. Of course, players are expendable if it fits the gameplay.
Thanks for reminding me the French exist, my year was going so well
@@MichaelJ44 if it makes you feel better, I wake up every morning remembering that Canada exists right above us. So, you’re welcome.
@@Juanhernandez-zx7kt holy fuck, they fly now?
Don't you know? The United States of America is never wrong.
"Fire from a water tower."
Something I never thought I'd hear in my life.
The lead negotiator made a book. The government was much more incompetent than it's made out to be in this operation, and the 'cult' much less extremist than the government broadcasts made it seem.
The FBI makes them look like ISIS
Then they made it into a TV Series.
whats your name on discord
not the tag, just your name
because you look super familiar
Same with a survivor of the incident David thibidou I think is how you spell his name
yeah they were a bit strange but not threatening to anyone, the whole raid was an excuse to crack down on a group of gun owners the government didn't like.
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
*said by no one ever*
The moment you realize the situation is about to get much worse
_just trust me, im doing whats best for you, please, do not resist_
@@makanawinston829 nah, the government really likes to say that, and it never works
''I'm your employer and I genuinely care about your wellbeing''
Title edit: "The FBI's Most Controversial Operation That The FBI Admits To"
There's got to be a ton of shit that we don't know about.
@@Razor-gx2dq there really isn't that many things that can top this shit show
@@Razor-gx2dq well it can't be too much worse otherwise the explosions could be seen cross-country
and they tell everyone "if you don't have anything to hide you don't have anything to fear".
Well shit looks like they have lots of things to hide. Why can't it go both ways?
"That the FBI has no way of denying" might be a more accurate choice of words.
I just realized, this siege is what the map, Oregon (from Rainbow Six: Siege) is based on. Even though the name references a completely different state, the map and Mount Carmel Center look very alike.
Don't forget when these cool agents took photos with the fresh dead kids!
@Katz Meowski they are
When did that happen? That’s a first I’ve heard
black boi in the full picture that’s used as this videos thumbnail there are charred skeletons in the background
black boi the black thing in the background of the thumbnail is a charred skeleton. There are 3 known pictures taken in that particular position.
scott _hunts yes because when you feel remorse for killing women and children you pose in front of their charred bodies.
No matter the stories or sides, can we all agree the ATF could’ve handled this situation infinitely better?
abolish the ATF
Yes! Proof being that there was a similar stand-off not too much after Waco with the Michigan Freemen (I think that's what they were called). They were wanted for passing bad checks, so the Feds were involved. They just waited them out this time, peaceful negotiation and no one died.
@@totus6813 extremely based
No they couldn't. Government agencies like ATF and FBI are irresponsible and are a danger to the American people.
Yes, just run the building over and over, starting from one corner, with tanks, untill they have no room to hide. Yo make the come out kinda like rolling a thoothpaste tube
"they all killed themself lol" - bill clinton
Fucking clinton
accurate
@@hayden8491 cult lover
@Segul Rog Spatha cult lover
He he guys, i love this game !
@@jacques4703 bootlicker
Same lol
The best explanation for the fire that I've seen is a little of both to blame. In order to stop the style of raid from the first day, they were putting fuel canisters by windows they could then shoot. The canisters would be enough to burn the federal agents, and could be put out relatively easily. When the feds threw the CS grenades (they work like smoke grenades, burning a core to create the smoke) one of them happened to land near enough to one of the containers to ignite it. This caught the flammable CS gas on fire, spreading what was supposed to be a contained flame to the entire complex quickly.
Tbf it's not a good idea to be throwing flammable gas into a building where people are trying to stop you with fire sticks
the ATF were probably wanting to copy the SAS when the SAS assaulted the Iranian embassy in london in 1980 to save 26-27/30 hostages that were taken over by Iranian Arab seperatists
@@LeavingGoose046 Did they know about the fire sticks though? this was after the first assault.
The raid that made Far Cry 5
And the building that inspired “Oregon” from r6 siege
I thought the same thing
GET THOSE FUCKIN PEGGIES
@@prophswrld THE POWER OF YES
Fellzer YOU WILL ALL SAY YES
The screams of dying rabbits were also played over the speakers. You could look it up, but you will wish you hadn't.
The rabbits sound like human babies being tortured.
They used the same soundtrack when seizing H.W. Bush's stooge
Manuel Noriega out of a catholic church in Panama.
oh god no
Psyops.
I believe they also played some monk chants. The FBI is full of people more insane than david Koresh
Skinny Puppy's songs were being used to torture prisoners at Gitmo. When the band heard about it, they sent an invoice to the US Govt for $666,000.
“It is unclear who shot first” translated to we (the atf) shot first but we don’t want to admit it
Well they suspected they had guns an probably would have shot first if they hadn't
or It is unclear who shot first
Well, technically if the atf agents had guns pointed at them, they were allowed to shot.
@I Am Sekou in the US, if a criminal points a gun at an officer or runs away carrying a gun, he can be shot because he becomes a danger to both the officer and civilians.
@Oussamatha fun fact leg shots can also be deadly
even if you take everything the fbi reported at face value, its a very troubling story, if you cast just a tiny shadow of doubt on the credibility of the testimony, it turn into a much much darker story
They basically massacred a community of civilians
"whats the point of using psychological warfare on people you think are crazy?"
getting inside of people's heads is a very effective strategy for warfare. It's part of the reason why ISIL was around for so long.
@@bobdimitri2402 that and leftover supplys from CIA.
@@iplaygames8090 Yes, but Ronnie need coke money NOW! GRRRRR! REAGAN SMASH! **berlin wall collapses**
"I'm crazy enough to take on Batman but the IRS? Noooo Thank You"
-Joker, Batman the animated series
Thank you eric very cool
I literally just finished watching "Waco" on Netflix last night lol
Same
The ending was inaccurate since FBI agents didn't realize their mistakes and posed in front of the burned down complex full of dead children
@@bnbcraft6666 I didn't know that thanks I guess
Nathan Phillips yeah it’s crazy how they misinterpreted it. There’s tons of photos of fbi dudes posing like badasses in front of the cameras....right after they murdered a bunch of women and children
SAME!
I lived in Texas at the time and learned *recently* that we took a trip to Houston and Back while this was happening, passing through Waco Before and After.
Nothing like watching the feds protect our first and second amendments...
Well technically they were illegally owning, operating, and modifying them...
Tieys Shall not be infringed
@@tieys The Davidians were using "Hell-Fire triggers," which were "interpreted" to be "illegal" 26 years after the fact
@UNABOMBER MANIFESTO The guy was marrying 12 year olds.
Burn the pedos!
@UNABOMBER MANIFESTO no they didnt
Let's imagine for a moment - The FBI was telling the truth about one of the kids alleging they had been abused in the compound.
Now imagine you are that kid, after the siege.
Didnt the bi themselves confirm they made it up?
They made it up dawg, never trust a fed.
They where there to kill everyone because - Bill Clinton. Some of the people in the church had evidence of Clinton drug smuggling business. FBI killed everyone hiding the concrete section of the compound with a bunker-buster. Mostly woman and kids.
III could you send me link to read up more on this?
But it wasn’t true.
So?????????????🤔
They could've arrested Koresh and his top guys whenever they left the compound to go to a gun show but the top bosses in the atf wanted to put on a big show for the media.
Timothy McVey later expressed his concerns with the ATF in Oklahoma.
Oklahoma rip
Wasn't Oklahoma bombing just a cover story for destroying records stored there? (per Cody Snodgres)
he is an American hero
everyone who’s seen Waco on Netflix before: I’m a bit of a historian myself
Impressive
really liked the show, but it was obviously biased. THe thing that stands out to me most is how in the show they chalk the fire up to the tear gas, but this vid mentions the voice recordings of the davidians spreading fuel, which is strange they left that out of the show, unless they were purposefully trying to paint a certain picture.
m.ua-cam.com/video/rDbPlUvMFKc/v-deo.html
They didn't spread fuel it was the atf and fbi forces that burned them alive. They shot people trying to flee the building
@@Maulstrum97 Im sorry, I woulda believed some of what this video claimed if he wasn't named black pilled, called cnn fake news (they're shit but cmon) and used the term "deep state." While I do think the feds massively fucked up at waco and got everyone killed, this video kinda shoots itself in the foot
Yeah you mentioned the siege at the beginning of the video when I was like "is this just a remastered version of the last one?" Of course, Waco is a wackass event which is definitely more insane than the Ruby Ridge siege
Waco is just the insane more morally grey version of Ruby Ridge... David Koresh wasn't innocent but Randy Weaver was
@@theragingnerdz1348 Name a crime Koresh has been proven guilty of.
Up next
The Oklahoma city bombing
Your my god damn twin
Lol wtf bro I'm guessing you watch drew durnil
What the fuck
Woah
Kenneth Miller where was this documented?? And do you have a source for any of this info it kind of seems like it’s off f a whim but I’m just another person from the internet so I’m kinda oblivious to this important stuff I should be knowing
It's been a while, but if memory serves, the primary impetus was Koresh bouncing checks and supposedly reactivating de-milled frag grenades.
The post fire pictures that came out later are particularly ghoulish. You can literally see burned human remains in the background. Disgusting.
The guy went to town daily. They could have arrested him then without any issue. The same FBI and ATF agents were at Ruby and Waco.
I actually know a guy who was at Waco with his gf and her son. After being there a while he realised how crazy it was and left about 2 weeks before shit hit the fan.
Damn
dont know what you expect from a religious cult but i dont see the problem if they arent hurting anyone. and considering there weren't illegals guns or any pedophilia happening let the idiots believe whatever they want. there are plenty of idiots that believe things much less logical, even some illogical things that 4/10 people would tell you as fact
@@fireman1226576 The first amendment ensures you can believe anything under the sun. You have religious freedom. Heads needed to roll at the FBI and ATF, and the fact they didn't should tell you all you need to know about our government.
Would you be willing to say his name? I've met several of the surviving members of the Branch Davidians, and I'm sure they'd have something interesting to say if I mention him to them
Bro that cameraman messed it all up without even knowing it lol.
One word can change history
He didn't, the outcome would've been the same
MannPerson how if the fbi raided on a surprise raid the davidians wouldn’t have time to react and there would be less casualties
@@commie_slayer4287 They had already discovered informants within them so they knew it was a matter of time until they were raided.
Plus the FBI knew exactly when their leader left for supply runs so they could've just taken him then instead of making a big scene for no reason.
Santiago Castro but it was more than one word, it was probably a couple sentences.
This is what happens when the government starts dealing guns. One doesn’t have to agree with the victims, but can agree that handling them can be done way better. Never matters who fired first, especially since the ATF tried doing a “ sting operation “ with guns they sold to the militants, cults, and later to the cartels.
You're putting the case for FBI here better than FBI did while it happened.
Several FLIR experts analyzed the footage that came from the day of fire happening, and concluded that FBI officers were shooting in the direction of building complex and that the fires were most likely started by FBI tanks.
You also forgot to mention, that David Koresh actually called police when ATF raided them at the first time.
Not only was the raid completely unwarranted - people from mt. Caramel were selling guns and gun shows, and that's why they "stockpiled" them, but also the modifications claims never had proof, along with ATF creating story of Koresh being a pedophile, which also had no proof shown. Officials had a chance to arrest Koresh several times when he was outside the compound.
Not even official documentaries show this event in neutral light for FBI and ATF, since what happened there was full on mass homicide.
FBI supposedly had whole compound bugged, yet they have never released the tapes of people inside actually talking about ingiting fire.
Also the gas used was highly flammable, and was known to be dangerous especially for children in closed areas and high concentrations.
The _official_ story presented by gov absolutely doesn't hold, and people who gave orders for that should get a chair, along with all agents there being at least charged with manslaughter.
should get there genitals skinned and the missing skin replaced with gympie gympie leaves
They have released the audio bugs. However, they were edited, by the FBI's own admission, because of how hard they were to hear. As a sidenote, the FBI cut their power, so they had to heat their home during an unusually cold Texas April, with fire, and used laterns to see at night. Some surviving Davidians theorize a tank knocked over a lantern, and that was the flame the gas needed to ignite. However, not all agree. The only thing that's basically universally agreed on is that they didn't set the fire themselves. No surviving Davidians, minus a very small handful, say the fire was set by them. If memory serves out of all the survivors there's 2 or 3 who said it was sent intentionally, and only one was there on the day of the fire itself
Non Americans always ask us why we are so wary of the govt and why we love our guns. This. This is why. (I'm kidding ATF, please don't raid my house or shoot my dog!)
I didnt realize just how tyrranical america is until a few years ago
@@thehandliesthandle It really isn't at the moment but there's a very real risk that it might if we let our guard down. Govt has been slowly but surely overstepping their bounds for a while. Unfortunately, we have an entire party here that is anti-human rights and pro big govt. They want huge govt programs funded by taxpayer money while infringing on our 1A, 2A, etc.
@@chinchilla641 they use tax dollars for wars people don't want, you have the highest incarceration rate in the world. I would say its tyrannical to a certain extent. The fbi recently did a vitamin C raid which i found comical
@@thehandliesthandle Yea, Obama and the neo con Republicans like Bush are all about wars but thankfully our current president hasn't started any conflicts thus far. I hope it stays that way.
If there hadn't been guns at the ranch, this never would have happened. It was the presence of firearms on the ranch that not only precipitated the raid itself, but also turned it into a siege.
It's a vicious cycle. People are afraid of "The Government", so they arm themselves. Police know people might be armed, so they carry more, bigger guns. People need to defend themselves against the bigger guns, so they get more guns. Police know... etc. I'm not trying to excuse what happened at Waco, and I'm not saying I know the perfect solution, but the attitude of "we have to defend ourselves against The Government" is NOT a solution. It's the problem.
"The math may seem queationable untill you realize 6 movies, equals 6 moneys." LMFAO 6 moneys. I love it!
you missed the part that there's only four books but six films equals six money.😂 you're so funny.
At least a couple things in this story would be considered a break on the Geneva convention, but since it's the American government doing it to their own citizens it's ok. Very cool.
If anybody was wondering the map “Oregon” is based off of this. It’s interesting because you can see little hints around the map that are connected to the event
i was wondering why it looked so familiar
R6?
Phantyr Yep. Actually, almost all maps are based of historical events, like for example the map “Consulate” is a reference to the Iranian embassy siege, or the plane map, based of the Air France hijacking.
Siege players are better than the fbi it seens
They didn’t discover a cache of weapons on the initial push I bet. They just needed an excuse
Lol yeah, who the hell discovers a cache of weapons in a bedroom during a firefight?
You're right actually. They only thought that was the weapons room. No evidence whatsoever of it. It was in fact one of the kid rooms. They kept all their weapons in a room off the kitchen.
definitely fabricated, even modern testimony of the event is riddled with lies from agents involved that can be so easily disproved with just a basic understanding of logic and 2+2=4
@@nepttune710 the child molestation was evidence enough
The Lord going to protect you but take this 50 cal.
All the disciples carried swords and when peter attacked a roman soilder when they came to take Jesus, Jesus basically told him "not yet"
my friends dad was a cop when Waco happened, and actually showed up to the scene
When the ATF wants you to be guilty, they’ll make you guilty. Then when they’re in over their heads, they’ll go crying to local authorities to do the hard work for them.
Ive noticed the game Postal 2 references this event. The area is even called "compound" or "the compound" where you gotta deliver a present to your uncle
Mhm, it got fire bombed by the ATF too.
I can't believe that the ATF and FBI survived this. They shouldn't have. Not in the form that allowed this to happen.
FYI those "air distractions" with the helo's were actually straffing runs. They were straffing the compound at night with tracer rounds.
yep
ahh that fact comes from the tv miniseries and has many problems with it, one being the lie that they where firing from the helicopters
And another mention: At 9:45 in the video the narrator mentions that the tank which was knocking a hole in the building was taking fire from the Davidians inside, but the FBI did not shoot back. This is false.
Some years ago 60 Minutes ran a segment on that part of the seige, showing a view from the air that was done using a FLIR camera (a camera that is sensitive to light in the near-infrared part of the spectrum). The segment included an expert on this technology who pointed out very plainly that the tank was flanked by troops on both sides who were firing into the building. The muzzle flashes are clearly visible in the scenes. The logic behind making holes in the building was that Davidians who wanted to surrender would escape through these holes, but no one did. Well gee whiz FBI, could all that incoming have had something to do with their refusal?
Edit: The 60 Minutes host doing this segment admitted on air that it had sat on this story for some time because it was so damming to the FBI. It seems the "mainstream media" was even more skittish because 60 Minutes was the only place that brought this to light.
@@garethjones209 why do you want the government to be the good guys because its horrible to realize you live under the most evil regime in human history
Waco seige- AKA Texas murder party
* Patiently waiting for my Killdozer shirt
Why wait for a shirt when you can build a real one
The fact that "Illegal Firearms" was the motivation behind the raid is enough for me to say that the Feds attacked first.
"Shall not be infringed" is a /very/ clear statement.
Indeed. Presumption of Illegal firearms... and they went in intending to kill everyone
It really wasnt even the "illegal firearms" the atf's warrant made heavy emphasis on the allegations that koresh was a pedo, which is waaayy outside their jurisdiction
They were worried about a group of singular thinking individuals owning weapons so they went to raid them and killed them, sounds like tyranny to me when you kill people who’ve done nothing wrong who want to bare arms
Thomas Bubniak link it
@@irateoperator1074 the atf shouldn't have ever been allowed to deal with it if it was only for sexual charges.
You forgot the part where the fbi cut a hole in the panic room and threw thermite down in it.
And now one of the ATF agents involved that posed with the ashes of kids is in charge of the ATF...
A warning to children everywhere not to displease the ATF
@@aureliusmarcusantoninus3441 otherwise you risk losing your dog
thankfully he was only the nominee and never actually became the head of the atf
@@muha0644 and your life via fire
"Until you realize, 6 movies equals 6 monies" That shit had me dying lol
I’m from Waco. It’s cool to see you cover this. Even if it makes WACO seem weird, any publicity is publicity.
Before the siege, the only thing I knew about Waco was that the AM radio stations in Waco and Ware, Massachusetts, were the only ones whose call letters were the same as the town names.
Wendigoon has a great video on this that goes into more detail.
BTW loving your work Qxir. Recently discovered you and now binging!
I remeber I got to interview and talk to Gary Noesner, the head negotiator, he was a very interesting man, and honestly very humble and extremely aware of everything at the compound, it felt like he knew what everyone was feeling, man was incredibly smart
I would quite like a video on Timothy McVeigh
Fred101j same
@Anonymous Person
So he bombed a daycare center..i'd really like to see how you spin this? The saying is, after all, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
The FBI Hostage Rescue Team wanted to take the raid by themselves and according to a retired HRT agent he said that the raid would been smoother if they took it
My brother not only met David Koresh but he worked on one of his private planes before the Waco incident and actually invited him to join the cult, to this day my brother still has the "business card" David gave him. When I was a kid I would walk by one of the houses David owned in La Verne California and I would see a bunch of women of all ages working in the yard cleaning up, it was creepy as hell to see these people working and not talking to each other.
you should see what they do to factory workers, and is encouraged by the government
Bro ur fucking creepy, what the gov did to them was creepy af, killin a bunch of kids for political points
I got a buddy who’s an expert in David Koresh business cards why don’t you wait right here I’ll go give him a call
8:01 The mass murder/suicide at Jonestown happened in 1978 not 1987
Correct. Slip of the tongue on my part
- Wounded Knee '80
- Philadelphia Bombing '85
- Ruby Ridge '92
- Montana Freemen '92
- Waco '93
- Elian Gonzales '00
- Edward and Elaine '07
- Bundy Standoff '14
- Duncan Lemp '20
Don't forget Daniel Shaver.
Good job.
@@melvinmerkelhopper5752 acab
you know that in Waco they were paying their taxes right?
While 'Duncan Lemp' case was bad. it is hardly the best example of why no knock raids are bad
Talladega Prision Riot was Bill Barr's 1st big "win", but were all of the "rules" followed?
Don’t forget that CS gas in an enclosed area is flammable, and if you look it up there have been many cases of it being used and then a fire starts not long after
Uncle dave always throws cool parties at the compound
@Flare56 no way you freakin pinko!
I rember my grandmother telling me about this she lived with in ear shot of the gun fire and talked about it for hours when in the nurseing home.
This is the story that Ubisoft based the the original map Oregon off of in Rainbow Six Siege.
Grew up in copperas cove, about 45 minutes from Waco. Never really understood what happened. Just knew it was a cult, and that after a long siege, it was burnt to a crisp
"Keep your rifle by your side!"~
Unironically a good anthem when you listen to it whilst understanding what happened at Waco and ruby ridge.
@@Starfighter-nk4mo someone did a cover of it with minimal changes, to make it into an Irish punk anthem, presumably about the IRA. And yeah, when you change the frame of reference, that song is awesome. I was thinking of it the entire time.
"They have bombs and they have tanks,
Because there's money in the banks"
Protestor:your home is next
Me homeless : ok
Rip
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Just get a house
Sampogii You good man? Wanna talk about something?
Then explain how did you fucking make this? Smh
Davidians:
Has Illegal guns
ATF:
Has a tear gas boogaloo*
The best part is they didn’t even have illegal guns, it just sounded like they did because they had crank triggers.
Davidians:
Has Illegal guns
ATF:
GET THE DOGS
"the first shots were fired by the ATF "dog team" sent to kill the dogs in the Branch Davidian kennel" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
Classic ATF
@@nathanphillips6335 i smile when thugs die...i think all the bad shit about the davidians was made up afterward to justify the tyranny of our govt
@@norml.hugh-mann my name is copcapperIII i fuck up dumb bitches like u
Except for the part where their firearms weren't illegal.
I feel sorry for those people and those poor children. I can see why people hate governments.
There is no safe cigarette. It is thermodynamically impossible to have a government that can benefit a carbon-based lifeform. AGAB.
Me seeing this vid: interesting
Me seeing the layout of the compound: oh its T H A T story