THE PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIAN BALE'S BATMAN
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- The Dark Knight trilogy is regarded as one of the if not THE best set of Batman films...
but that's not to say it's without it's faults.
Case in point, today we talk about Christian Bale 's Batman.
#thedarkknight #batman #christianbale
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I always thought the Bale Batman voice worked in short, quick sentences: "Why do you want to kill me?" or "Swear to me!" It does not work when he goes on long monologues about philosophy.
I actually thought it worked perfectly when he told Jim Gordon at the end of the dark knight rises that hero could be anyone, like it was a long monologue sure but it didn't sound silly for me in fact I thought the voice made that monologue even better to be honest.
Yeah, I think the voice is absolutely ridiculous. But I appreciate it cuz it’s funny and led to many parodies.
It mostly works in Begins especially the swear to me scene but by TDK it's just ridiculous.
@@playcoarmboy1836 he sounds ridiculous still
Why could he not use a voice changed in the form of a 'sticker' on the outside of his throat, like Oliver Queen did in Smallville? Surely all that money & tech, this could've easily been manufactured.
I feel like it's a misconception that Bruce retired as Batman just because Rachel died. By his own words in "Rises", Batman went away because he wasn't needed anymore. The good guys won the war on crime because of the Dent Act. That's why Batman disappeared for eight years. But Bruce Wayne retreated into isolation because of Rachel's death.
This version of Batman was never meant to be a life-long occupation for Bruce, it was meant to have an expiration date from the beginning. And Bruce pinned the life after Batman on being with Rachel. So without her, there's no need for Bruce Wayne to have a life outside of the mansion. But when a new threat rises, both Bruce and Batman come out of retirement when they're needed.
And that is something batman wouldn't do
Yeaaaaa.... his Batman still sucks..
@@leonunez8335 You suck.
See, this is another big problem I have with the Dark Knight Rises:
Bruce didn't defeat crime in the city. He only suppressed it. Life was still shitty, people were still poor, the population was still disillusioned. Yeah, he crushed the mob and organized crime, but he didn't fix the problem at its root. How else would you explain that Bane could recruit such a massive army of followers if there wasn't a good chunk of poor and disillusioned people around. And Catwoman giving hints at that with comments on socioeconomic disparity.
In every other incarnation it was stated that while Batman fights crime, Bruce Wayne tries to help the poor and disadvantaged. Heck, the latest Batman film this year even showed the importance of being a symbol of hope for the vulnurable.
The Dark Knight Rises on the other hand made a whole point on how the victory in the Dark Knight was hollow and meaningless since it needed only one buff dude to topple it all. That Batman only made the symptomps of crime go away but not the cause.
@@jackduncan5442 not as much as Bale's Batman 😂😂
I always have agreed with Batman being the person and Bruce the mask. That's also what makes Dick Grayson the perfect hero because Nightwing and Dick Grayson are one in the same, he acts the same as both and is comfortable being in the Nightwing suit because it's just him being himself.
Dick Grayson is still my favorite Robin
Imo the best version of Batman is when the real Batman is basically a hybrid of Bruce and Batman
Well then you just misunderstand batman lol
I disagree, I think bringing him down as a character to a certain thing is a bit of a oversimplification of what he is as a character. In my opinion, both Playboy Bruce and Batman are exaggerations of Bruce’s true self not masks necessarily. The real absolute Bruce is the one most don’t see, the one in the cave or that comes out when with his loved ones. Playboy Bruce is the egotistical and cocky self of Bruce personified and multiplied. While Batman is Bruce’s rage and pain personified and multiplied as well. They both are extensions of Bruce and represent parts of him but aren’t necessarily completely who he is.
One is him embracing his demons and using them to fight crime. While the other is him trying to suppress his demons and show out for the public.
The person who Alfred raised. The man who was a mentor and caring person to Dick, Jason, and Damian when they had no one else. That is the true unaltered Bruce Wayne.
The difference is here is that Dick through lines it and is way more in touch than Bruce is. Dick has found the best way at least for him to not become consumed by the symbol.
He is the true heir to the cowl
"DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?" is the best line of the trilogy
Honestly that whole scene is very Batman
What about "I'm not running around in hockey pants." I the first time I heard him say that I laughed and laughed.
I really like "then you're gonna love me" after Joker's "You've got a little fight in ya, I like that"
So the film is not so good
When he says "SWEAR TO ME!" to Fleiss, I felt intimidated.
The bat voice was good in batman begins. All in all though, it felt like Nolan missed the smaller details in place of the overall grander picture, especially in rises.
By Rises I could barley understand him
@@dabatman5187 yeah same with bane. I get what they were going for but giving bane the exposition monologues was just bad execution and doesn't hold up the test of time.
@@ThatReplicant Bane's voice was nearly perfect and perfectly understandable. Batman's voice in Rises wasn't. It was good in Begins, ok in TDK and too extreme in Rises.
@@ThatReplicant good point
My dad called out his voice in The Dark Knight and i was in denial but now I give him credit for noticing it right away.
Fun Fact: Christian Bale had a different voice originally. He was speaking lightly and calmly almost like a whisper. But Nolan didn't like it. So he changed it.
Nolan ruined Batman for future’s to come
@@Chatgptplus-p9v No he didn't
@@Chatgptplus-p9vwell that doesn’t really make much sense because our latest version of Batman literally talks in the whispering manner that the original comment is referring too.
I would love you to make a video about Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow. He was great, but kind of wasted.
Scarecrow always gets wasted sadly
@@MILDMONSTER1234 yeees! And he is such a cool antagonist! I hope they bring him back in the Pattinson movies.
@@elsorzis5692 i think he’s supposed to in The Batman’s Arkham spin-off
I need more Scarecrow in my life.
They always make the mask look boring af, some Scarecrow mask’s in the DCAU movies are amazing
I’ve read before that it was Nolan who altered the Batman voice in post-production, wanting it more growly and distinct from Bruce’s public voice. I thought the voice was fine in Begins, and actually liked the “SWEAR TO ME!” bit.
How do you alter a voice in pre-production? As in: before anything is filmed?
@@dustywaynemusic6297 he probably meant post.
@@rizzaramon7213 well that's the complete opposite of what he said. I think he's just full of it
Dammit, post-production.
Forensics expert here: You could not get a fingerprint off a bullet in brick even with all the money in the world. The fingerprint would be wiped off the bullet as it passes into the brick. Also pistol bullets don't go through bricks. Also the fingerprint would have been damaged on half of all the sides of the bullet due to it scraping against the rifling as it passed through the barrel. Also I read a paper about the Las Vegas concert mass shooting, and the FBI couldn't get a single fingerprint off of all the fired cartridge casings of all the bullets fired, barely getting a couple off of the unfired ammunition. Ammunition is not a good source for fingerprints in general because they're covered in a layer of grease.
Well its fiction so who cares
Counter argument, Bruce Wayne has more than all the money in the world. He has money out of this world too. After all, he funded the lookout or whatever the JLA floating hq is called. 😅
@@John-Doe-Yo That excuse only really works for stories that embrace the absurdity of this whole superhero thing. The problem was Nolen wanted to make a more "realistic" Batman trilogy, so it makes sense to critique them when they're unrealistic.
@@purplespectre it’s not an excuse just how entertainment works. It’s more grounded but still absurd and the rules of the world in the story are up to whoever crafts them.
@@John-Doe-Yo the video actually asks if that's a thing.
Honestly, I like the three personas thing. Public face Bruce Wayne and Batman when people see him are both acts. The real Bruce is somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, I don't get how that's a bad point (I haven't finished watching the video tbh, maybe he elaborates on that)
It makes complete sense to me, and I really like it.
I read somewhere that the real man is Bruce Wayne in the batcave
He didn’t retire because of Rachel’s death, it was to save Harvey’s reputation and keep those Villians locked up. They mentioned in the film that Gotham was at peace while he was gone. He also was gonna be facing off against the cops as well as the criminals each time he was out.
what I really hate about C bale's batman is the fighting choreography, Is stiff... don't know another way to explain it.
I just want to said he didnt retired thanks to Racheal death, this take of the character isnt trying to avenged his parents death because Joe Chill was capture, but when he was killed by Falcone Bruce understood that in order to achived what his parrents wanted to do with Gorham he needed to clean the system. When the white knight appear the Dark Knight saw the promise for a better a Gotham, One that wouldnt need him and after what the Joker did with Harvey he had to sacrifice the Batman. Rachael only was what he belive would be his life out of the cave/darkness but it was a lie.
I’m not saying is a good way to potrait the character but is how Nolan write him to tell the story.
Finaly someone who understands the Movie
Exactly. They make a big point in The Dark Knight of how Batman wants to retire once the mob is gone, and in The Dark Knight Rises when he talks to Gordon in the hospital about how he wasn’t needed anymore after Harvey’s death because they’d won and beat the mob.
In all three movies, there’s an underlying sense that he doesn’t want to be doing this. He just wants to root out the crime and corruption in Gotham, and once that’s done, so is he.
I'm late to this party, but Nolan's batman is worthless. Batman is known for being one of the world's greatest detectives but was so easily tricked by the joker more then once. Dent really does not mean much to Batman. in the comics batman calls gotham a garden that always has weeds to pull. there will always be crime.
Although I understand the silliness behind Bales Batman voice, I think you misunderstood the ending of the Dark Knight. Batman doesn’t give up because of Rachel’s death. He doesn’t truly “give up” at all. Harvey Dent represented the best and the change of Gotham. He was the white knight trying to clean up Gotham the right way. So him being corrupted by the Joker and killing people would result in the complete downfall of their (dents, Gordon’s, and Batman’s) work. In the end, the Joker won: he corrupted Harvey Dent and got Batman to break his one rule. At the end, the Batman is willing to sacrifice his reputation if it means the preservation of gothams soul- “because he can take it.” Bales Batman doesn’t give up, he sacrifices. In fact, in the Dark Knight Rises breakup scene between Bruce and Alfred, Alfred tries to use Rachel’s death to stop Bruce from continuing, but it doesn’t work.
well putted
But why couldn't he have just put the blame on the joker?
@@OirichEntertainment Because if you tell the public that the Joker turned Dent evil, it tells them that even the best people can be corrupted and that there is no hope for Gotham to truly be fixed. Maintaining the image that Dent was incorruptable was essential to maintaining hope.
I thought everyone understand this after all these years but damn why do movie review youtubers can't grasp a simple idea?
@@ubaldoarias5653 **Put** lmao
It has been mentioned multiple times in the comics that Bruce forgets to stop talking in the Batman voice, when he’s in the mask. There was a scene in the comics were Bruce is in the batcave talking to Alfred and he mentions how he is covered in wounds, and hasn’t taken off his mask in weeks, then Alfred Mentions that Bruce doesn’t have to talk in the voice when it’s just the two of them, and Bruce did realize he was doing.
I think the Batman aspects is just Nolan not being a comic fan and not having someone above him to control him like how the MCU does/did. I think Nolan likes Batman as a character at his core but he was not a fan of the comic book trapping like Robin, his supervillains and everything like that. Probably why the Batsuit is more like armor than a batsuit. Nolan wanted to make Batman in his own aesthetics and that is fine.
Non comic book fans arguably have no business directing comic book films.
As a longtime Batman fan I didn't like the Nolan trilogy. It was trying too hard to be a noir piece instead of comic book film.
@@MrWolfchamp-xi3cu Most comic book fans aren't qualified to direct a big budget production.
@@TheMicael100 I'm not talking about them. That oughta go without saying.
I'm talking about directors that actually love comics.
He did Just like many writer on Batman comic as well : "do their own interpretation on Batman"
Sooo don't see what wrong with it
Christian Bales Bruce/Batman is a more altruistic one. It's more of a James Bond as Batman type character. He still uses Batman as a tool for his anger. Pattinson's is an attempt at a more Pre Keaton version. Bales Batman is actually the most physically imposing one outside of Affleck. His voice is a natural disguise. Bale explained that the only way to play a dude in a weird costume to go all in and create an entity. The universe Nolan created is more based in reality. Had he just used his speaking voice he would have been A. Figured out, B. Made fun of in universe. I think its funny that so many people hate on his voice, when Robert Pattinson basically stole it and just turned it down one notch.
exactly. comments on this video are stupid.
@@masterwayne420 I'd say the video is pretty stupid all in all but well he's free to have his opinion.
tbh all batmen kinda contributed something maybe except for George Clooney. Just kidding he looked the part and also had a good bruce wayne. The perfect batman would be an actor who got all the attributes the actors had. Tbh IMO Christian bale for all the rules his universe had functioned really well to what batman is suppose to be in the comics. The only thing i disliked about his take which tbh isn't his fault at all rather the direction of what the movie told him to function as is His batman voice, and his suit which i think is god awful. The body suit is fine but i cant stand that cowl.
Reeves/Pattinsons portrayal of The Batman absolutely nailed it, imo. Bruce hasn’t separated himself and the bat, he IS The Bat, and is still trying to figure out how to use Bruce as a tool in the real world. Lost in anger and obsession, running on a razors edge. And the movie felt like an actual Batman story, I find myself getting kind of bored with Nolan’s batverse. I understand what he set out to do, but I feel like critical elements were lost in the translation to screen. I’m incredibly excited to see how Pattinsons Bruce, and that world, grows in future instalments!
totally agree, conroy and pattinson are my two faves for different reasons
Reeves doesn’t possess one original idea, so he must base his ”world” on other people’s work, then subsequently overcompensate for this failure by rendering it some kind of interactive experience.
@@JesseBrown-qf6zp and you possess no bitches
@@JesseBrown-qf6zp The Batman is the most overrated film I’ve seen all year. It was another ‘realistic Batman movie’. That’s already been done, and already been perfected. It was a 3hr shit show
@@iacovoskritz4896 finnaly someone who understands.
"Happy watching. Thank you, sir"
Anyways, I definitely agree with the points you made about Christian Bale's performance as Bruce Wayne the person, Bruce Wayne the persona, and Batman the persona. 👀
Batman Begins (2005) and Superman Returns (2006) should’ve led to Batman v Superman. Christian Bale and Brandon Routh were the perfect age to build the DCEU for the next 2 decades.
Lol No thanks. Routh was not a good Superman and Bale sucked as Batman in my opinion but I liked his portrayal of Bruce Wayne the best out of them all
Thank God THAT didn't happen.
@@scinnyc Routh was better than Cavill just as Bale was better than Affleck, thank God we have Pattinson now
@@TheBatman39 😅Routh wasn't better than Cavill in anyway in my opinion and I'm sure most people would agree with me. I didn't think Affleck was that good as Batman either but I never liked Bale's Batman. His voice was goofy, his fighting moves were Power Rangerish and his costume looked like it didn't even fit right
@@scinnyc bales Batman couldn’t fight for shit his fighting style was awful
I love Batfleck's modulated voice... when I first heard it in BVS I was like: that's cool af, they finally nailed Batman, Batfleck is the perfect Batman, the way he fights, talks and carries himself, that's how I've always imagined Batman in live action.
Only problem I had with Affleck was him killing people. Other than that he was great as an older Batman
@@Hugeboss01 well he is a frank miller adaptation batman and miller batman has no such rules
Batfleck is my favorite Batman
@@thepresence2959”these are loud and clumsy,these are the weapons of cowards” Miller’s Batman
10:34 Bruce didn't give up being Batman because of Rachel. It's never said anywhere in the Dark Knight Rises that he gave up because of Rachel or even implied. He stopped going out as Batman because there was no need for him to do so anymore. He didn't "give up", He succeeded. He maintained Harvey's reputation which led to the mob's stranglehold on Gotham being shattered. He said it himself to Gordon "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, we won".
"The Batman doesn't want to do what he's doing for the rest of his life, how could he? He's looking for someone to take up his mantle"
@DM but Batman doesn’t wnna retire as Batman lmaoo 😂it’s who he is even in Batman beyond old 85 year old Bruce Wayne still calls himself Batman lmaoo
The part about Batman being the man and Bruce Wayne being the "mask" is spot on. I forget which series it was exactly, but one of the Batman animated series shows Bruce as an older man. The big bad for the episode is trying to convince Bruce that he's crazy by talking to him like a voice in his head, and when asked how he was able to tell that he wasn't actually going insane, he pointed out that the voice that was supposed to be coming from inside his head always referred to him as "Bruce", but in reality, in his head: "I'm always Batman".
This confirms that Bruce is nothing more than an alter ego and that the true personality of the man at his core is Batman.
It was Batman beyond
@justinkashtock333
Wrong, dumbass.
Interesting points you bring up. I actually love the first 2 movies. I think they are fantastic. I thought when he took the wrap for dent at the end it was perfect because maroni points out that they know the bat won’t kill and that was why the criminals couldn’t fear him as much as the joker. Now this saves Harvey’s image and gives Batman the edge without him actually committing the act. I felt the first two movies were building up to make this amazing universe. When rises came out I was pumped. Imagine my disappointment when it came out that it was 8 years later and Bruce stopped being Batman. I assumed it was because of his leg. I never even acknowledged that it was Rachel lol so this video made me reflect on that. Also bale’s batman was only batman clocked in for a total of under 2 years. Very upsetting and when I go back and rewatch them I often skip the 3rd
The third movie was a one and done for me. I already barely liked Bale as Batman, even as a kid compared to all the other shows Batman was in around the 90’s/00’s, Bale was the least interesting to me.
I agree I often skip the 3rd or start it & use it as background noise ☮️
It gets worse each time I see it again.
This is ironic, I just died twice in arkham knight trying to take out a tower and I chose the dark knight skin and tumbler and both times deathstroke popped up saying "you used to put up more of a fight" and litterally right after I got done saying it's this shitty fuckin suit" I look over at my phone and see a notification saying "the problem with Christian bale Batman"!... that's funny!:)
Thank you for continuing to put out such great content! I totally agree with your point of Bruce never giving up being Batman and that “Bruce Wayne” was the mask while Batman was the true persona. To add credence to Bruce never giving up being Batman all you need to do is either read Frank Miller’s the Dark Knight Returns or watch the Batman Beyond series. In both, Bruce may have physically aged out of being still capable of being Batman but his detective mind is still as sharp as ever and he continues being Batman thru his mentorship, in DKR it’s Carrie Kelly and the Sons of the Batman while in Batman Beyond it’s Terry McGuinness. He may be behind the scenes but his presence as Batman is still felt. Bale is a great actor and Nolan is a great director but you are very correct in your assessment of both them missing the mark of who Batman is.
This is why I absolutely adore Ben Affleck's Batman because he had a very comic accurate suit, mastered every single fighting style known to man, and has a fuckin voice modulator to intimidate the criminals. Best Batman ever!
Batman does not kill
@@OdileOdile19 His first appearance in comics would say otherwise
@@callmestorm23 yeah, and nobody likes those comics
@@callmestorm23 while you're correct, they changed it early on
@@callmestorm23 the best Batman but yet showed no signs of being the worlds greatest detective and was more happy go as Batman in justice league instead of the dark knight.... Affleck pulled off the fighting style of Batman but that's literally it. Costume doesn't count because Ben isn't the one that chose the suit. I haven't really fell in love with any live action version yet because none of them has been able to actually understand who Batman is. Patterson came close with him being brooding and showing signs that he will be the worlds greatest detective which is one of the more important traits of Batman.
This is so true. Finally someone who shows the flaws that Many people somehow ignores or shoved aside
*sarcasm mode on max* you don't understand Vee, if Joker was like "no i didn't kill him, he burnt half his face so became obsessed with flipping a coin... went on a brief murder spree and then fell off a roof while waiting to see if the coin would tell him to shoot a kid" EVERYONE would have believed that. obviously. withought a doubt.
Christian Bale is the living embodiment Christopher Lee's quote: Every actor has to make terrible films from time to time, but the trick is never to be terrible in them.
Well it’s not the actors making the movies but the directors and writers
That's almost the exact opposite of what's being described in this video where the films are great but they are let down by Bale .
Finally someone addressing this!! Great vid
Biggest problem they didn’t continue with this version for their cinematic universe.
Thank God they didn't.
Yup, WB would have avoided all the upcoming bs with the DCEU if they used Bale's Batman as the starting point.
@@DaveMiller2 They didn't and everything went downhill very quickly
WB execs were the problem with the DCEU. They interfered, then the film didn't do as well as it should have, then they panicked and blamed someone or something else, then they interfered with the next film, and so on.
Look at how much better Snyders Dawn of Justice is than the theatrical. BvS wasn't bad, but the Ultimate edition was MUCH better.
And of course the Snyder cut of Justice League is orders of magnitude better than Hamadas dumpster fire.
Suicide Squad made a ton of money even though it had harsh reviews. There is no reason not to believe that the Ayer cut is 1000 times better.
So if WB had let Snyder and Ayer do their thing, the DCEU would be much better off. Jenkins too. Don't forget that WB made Patty Jenkins change the ending of Wonder Woman. The ending is the weakest part of the film. Then they did BOP, WW 84, and Gunns Suicide Squad. All were terrible and tanked. Somehow they miraculously managed not to screw up Aquaman, and Shazam was great but WB released it at possibly the worst time that they could have done so. They released it near Endgame. What the hell were they thinking?
Neither Bale nor Routh would have really fit into a coherent universe. Nolan was going for grounded and more realistic, and Routh was a throwback to the campy Reeves films.
Routh was good in the CWs Crisis crossovers.
The Reeve (leave off the last 'S" for Superman) films weren't campy, and neither was Superman Returns. Considering you don't even know how to spell his name, maybe you haven't seen them in awhile, or at all.
I was playing Batman Arkham knight in the living room with my dad and two face started to talk and I was wearing the dark knight suit in the game and my dad said why does Batman sound so weird and I never really noticed how strange Christian bales Batman voice is until he said that
Besides the fact that he shows not one ounce of detective skills? I haven't watched The Batman yet but not one live action Batman iteration has gotten him right. He's a detective first and foremost, yet all live adaptations just show him as a brooding UFC fighter with tech that does more harm than good.
the batman does have detective scenes, its a bit like seven
@neonicon8500
Completely wrong, fucking dumbass. The Keaton films and The Val Kilmer and George Clooney ones all show Batman\Bruce to be a detective, fucking dumbass.
To be fair. For Keaton's batman it wasn't just that one scene in '89 in a scene in Batman returns Bruce is researching by looking at a newspaper article.
Then there is that scene where he tells alfred that he believes penguin knows who his parents are and that there's something else. Which imo is batman saying "I think he already knew who his parents are, there's something else motivating him."
So Batman is starting to connect dots in his head.
So there are "detective" scenes both in '89 and Returns.
So i'd be one scene in both Batman '89 and Batman Returns then the next two movies fell off.
In forever they are trying to solve the riddles on who is the riddler so that is something as well
@@kyriakoschrist In "Forever" he solves 4 riddles and in "The Batman" he solves one.
Just venting.
@@jonathancampbell5231 i mean that’s not even accurate
@@deanoss777 In "The Batman" it's usually Alfred, Penguin or someone else who solves the riddle
@@jonathancampbell5231 not true, he solves almost all the card riddles himself. he solves all the riddles in the bomb scene and there’s literally like 4 in that scene alone. he solved the one at the beginning of the movie as well.
After seeing Pattinson take on Batman I agree with your take on the voice. Pattinson didn’t exaggerate the steepness of his voice, he just talked deeper and more whispery.
The problem is not the acting, but the voice, they could have done another voice for Batman but they didn't, and the fact that nobody in the production noticed it and said: "That voice is stupid, we should try another one." -- That's really scary. Another thing is the fight choreography. But that's not Bale's fault, both of those things are Nolan's fault, really no one tried to give Bale's Batman a better voice or better fight scenes? It's almost as if nobody on the film's production cared about Batman.
Yeah this version of Bruce Wayne is pretty clingy and needy.
I think he played it the best imo, he had enough distinction between Bruce and Batman while maintaining the relationship that is Bruce being the true mask
Afflecks Bruce was Batman 24/7 and Pattinsons Batman is his Bruce 24/7 I feel
And like mentioned in the video his character is the most multi faceted - Batman, Bruce and Asshole Bruce, and each is completely different - I think this was actually a strength to his performance.
And I think he was brilliant as Batman tbh in Begins he was genuinely terrifying and Dark Knight he had a calmer authoritative presence.
Until the joker interrogation - that’s his best moment - the voice was only bad in TDKR imo
Actually I like Terminator Salvation. And I also like the fact that they had A-10 Warthog attack planes and this version of the resistance held their own having a Air Force and an Army and a Navy.
Underated movie
Had great concepts
I never understood the hate that movie got. It's a lot better than any other sequel past T2.
you brought up a lot of good points in this vid! god his batman voice took me out of the movie so many times. makes me wonder if they ever thought to get/had a voice director on set just to perfect the bat persona. esp since you pointed out kevin conroy's stellar performance who's a voice actor that's just incredible at his job
This is the one I've been waiting on!
Batman is peak physical athleticism, a tactician, a detective, and fighter. I didn't get ANY of that from Bale's Batman.
Good movies. Bad Batman.
Probably the best Bruce Wayne ever in live action but the worst Batman I love the movies but not for the title character for his persona outside of the Bat Suit sadly Adam West did the Bat better and that was like 90 or 80% campy stuff
The series as a whole def dropped the ball on that front. The first movie wqs the only one that highlighted those skills fairly well even though the combat was really dodgy once it turned from Batman's stealth takedowns to actual on foot combat.
Best Bruce Wayne by a mile
@@emperortrevornorton3119 no argument there. They definitely got Bruce Wayne right.
You can't really say he wasn't a tactician. There's plenty of times examples throughout the trilogy that show him strategically taking out does and rescuing hostages.
Counterpoint on the Voice: When he drops the rasp to tell Harvey "It wasn't" after Harvey asks why he was the only one who lost everything hits pretty hard. So... yes, raspy voice was corny, but when Bats said that one line it was effective.
As far as the voice is concerned, Bale said that when he put on the costume he felt like a BEAST. Hince (lol) he altered his voice to reflect his feelings.
and ot makes sense.
Bruce is f in thr head. naturally he is a kid full of rage.
Bruce isn't not right in thr head cause of the damage. but it makes sense for a broken person to do some voice like and think it's cool lol
he dresses as a bat.. come on lol
I always interpreted Batman retiring after The Dark Knight and Rachel's death is because he sees her death and all the events of the film as the fault of Batman. Batman created the Joker and the Joker's crimes were specifically targeting Batman and the ideals Batman stands for. He's realized that, with the Dent Act and Gotham being cleaned up after The Dark Knight, Batman might actually do more harm than good. He doesn't want Batman to inspire more violence and craziness the way he did for The Dark Knight. You could even argue that he believes he's accomplished the mission of shaking Gotham out of apathy that he sets in Batman Begins. Before Bane's arrival, Gotham is in a pretty good place.
All in all, I think this is just a different portrayal of the character that leans much more into the symbolic meaning of Batman than anything else. Batman is a symbol to shake Gotham out of apathy and corruption and that symbol isn't really needed once that goal has been accomplished. Bruce Wayne truly wants to live a life of his own but he worries that Gotham may one day need Batman again, perhaps when he's too old to save it, so he leaves the cave to the younger Detective Blake so that he can be that symbol if Gotham ever falls again.
That is an interesting way to looking at it! Why does this comment not have more likes?
Pete Holmes “badman” sounds just like bales Batman 😂
There’s honestly 3 personas: Batman, Playboy Millionaire, and Bruce
The dark knight ending is not necessarily bad, actually I would argue it's freaking great...for any other character that isn't Batman, and in my opinion that's where the issue comes from, that it's not a good fit for a Batman story, because that's just not who the character is, great movie anyways, I've always said that it was a great villains movie
Also, as someone who knows a thing or two about forensic sciences; that whole “fingerprint in the shattered bullet in the cement wall cutout” thing was absolute bullshit
Still an iconic performance that puts Bale up there with Keaton and Conroy.
Batman Mask of the Phantasm was a far better Batman film then anything Nolan produced.
Unlike in Nolans film where the death of his loved one caused Bruce to give up being Batman, in Phantasm the loss of his first love, Andrea, caused Bruce to give up looking for a happy life settling down and he fully embraced his role as Batman.
I thought I read somewhere that before the tragic loss of Heath Ledger the third of Nolan’s Batman films was going to be something along the lines of ”The Trial of The Joker”.
That would’ve been interesting
Don't completely agree on the voice part but you make solid points. Great video. Keep up the good work.
The comic book moment that fully supports your commentary on Batman being who he really is and Bruce Wayne is the mask he wears. wonder woman was using her lasso of truth to force everyone in the justice league to divulge their secret identity and when it’s his turn he very casually says “I am Batman.” Indicating that is who he truly feels he is.
I hope she had a broken face after he said that, as if to say "OMG. You poor man."
...but that does NOT support it, fucking dumbass.
@@MrParkerman6 actually yes it very much does. When in contact with the lasso of truth you can’t lie, you are physically incapable of doing so. It’s extremely painful if you try and you end up saying the truth anyway! And when asked all of the other heroes give their real names. When he’s asked the same question of who he is he says Batman. Diana had to rephrase the question to get him to say his real name by asking him what his birth certificates says. (His idea for transparency not hers)
there is something in the part where the doctor tell him his injuries that make me think that he didnt stop after the dark knight. something tells me that it took years for him to quit.
I'm so glad to hear I wasn't the only one disappointed by Bale like this, I would honestly love to see a deeper exploration in a tv series with the same tone and feel as Daredevil.
The one line that gets me from daredevil that would be great in Batman is “I’m doing this because I enjoy it”.
Pattinson Batman wants to beat down everyone and an acknowledgment of that would show how messed up Batman can be when he’s starting. Daredevil is probably the best superhero series because it does the characters justice at every level.
CHRISTIAN BALE'S BATMAN was awsome he did not disappoint anyone as batman he was born to play batman and i loved 1989 batman growing up to.
Makes sense he would change his voice to conceal his identity. Bruce wayne as a public figure, people could figure out he's batman based on his voice.
I think it was always Nolan’s idea to do the voice. Because even Rob said that Bale was doing a very similar voice to him in the early teaser trailers of Begins.
I'd love to see videos on the other Batman actors like Keaton, Affleck and Pattinson (maybe even Kilmer and Clooney).
Well this movie was about modern world and in modern world there is not much of "detective work" because everything is so advanced you dont search to find clues because you have everything already
It seems like this Batman is more like moon knight then actually Batman lol
Always enjoy your thoughts. Never really thought of it like this, but I agree with all of it :)
Comic joker: a clown-themed mobster
Dark Knight Joker: a clown-themed terrorist/anarchist/freedom fighter
Comic Batman: a cold bat-themed detective
Dark Knight Batman: a furious bat-theme vigilante
The entire purpose of Batman in this trilogy was to give the city back to the people, and Rachel said once he was done with Batman they could be together so for Batman, to capture the joker, and save the day. Once again, he preserved Harvey’s legacy, and retired because the city was back in the hands of the people. There was nothing left for him to do. this trilogy doesn’t really take into account. The lore of Bruce doing what he does endlessly since this was a more real world approach. It’s kind of like a professional athlete achieving all goals, and then retire but if there’s nothing there then what. yeah, no real reason to keep going back out there. Plus he was physically injured. That’s the only point I would disagree with you on for the most part.
KEVIN CONROY
should be used to dub all
BATMAN voices in all media
TV SHOWS
MOVIES
VIDEO GAMES
Weirdly, Bat Man was an afterthought when watching these movies.
Christian Bale is in my top 3 favorite Batman actors with Robert Pattinson and Michael Keaton
Pattinson is better than bale in my opinion
@@skywalker2676 I respect your opinion because Pattison is a great Batman too
Same Very cool we almost have the same list my top 3 fav actor to play batman is Ben affleck, Robert P and Michael John Douglas
From my understanding the Batman Begins voice was just Bale changing his own voice, but it was fucking up his vocal cords and he kept losing his voice by doing it so much. So for the follow up movies he spoke normally, but in post they heavily altered it to make it sound deeper and raspy, which is probably why it comes off as unnatural. The voice modulator Batfleck uses is far more terrifying because it's not trying to sound natural or growly, it sounds mechanical and inhuman.
THANK U! Finally I’m not the only one! I very much enjoy So many elements of these movies from directing , other performances, cinematography, tone but Bales Voice as Batman instantly takes me out of it plus the fact that me and bale are the same height and build. Batman should be broad and intimidating. That was when he pulls off these crazy physical feats it’s believable. R.Patts Batman even seems larger and more imposing. It’s why I love Batfleck, his appearance is perfect imo and no stupid voice
I liked batfleck and battinson better than bale
It never even crossed my mind that the voice was to be scary, I always just thought it was to help protect his Bruce identity. He's a well known billionaire, anyone could recognize his voice if he didn't try to change it. It is still a bit annoying nonetheless.
I'm glad you gave him praise and didn't just make a single batman video, you broke down enough to know as a watcher you're not a hater
I disagree when it comes to the end.. it was a great ending and awesome line told by Gordon.. if they would’ve just blamed it on Joker it would’ve been boring… and not good writing.. ending was super deep and I enjoy it my my favorite part
Also blaming joker would be a really rotten move by the good guys. That's the ultimate corruption pinning murders on someone that didn't commit them
Personally, I always appreciated Bale's Batman voice in the context of these movies. Well, at least in the last two movies. I think he used it to try to intimidate when he wanted to use it to try to intimidate. Otherwise, he just seemed to change his voice more subtlety for the sake of keeping up the disguise of the character he was using to fulfill its purpose. He modulated it how he saw fit instead of trying to scare everyone just for the sake of trying to scare everyone all the time.
As for Bruce hanging up his cape at the end of the second film, he said it himself to Gordon in the third film. "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, we won." It was because he sacrificed Batman for the sake of maintaining the illusion of Dent having saved Gotham that he was able to do this; even if it didn't sit well with all those who knew the truth about Dent. That's why he eventually had to come back. Because with Bane's appearance and obvious threat, and with Gordan's and Blake's insistence/encouragement, Gotham needed the Batman once again. This is why when he was no longer needed at the end of the third film, Bruce was finally ready to personally retire his Batman for good as both he and Alfred had always wanted him to. This was always supposed to be a more realistic take on the character. For it to be real, considering all his many documented injuries, he likely couldn't have keep it up for much longer than he already had. He could finally retire because in his mind he had finally given Gotham "everything" and was at last at peace. I thought it was a good character arc.
2:36 - Bruce Wayne IS the mask. this is canon in Batman. there is even a scene in Batman Beyond where some villain is trying to drive Bruce Wayne crazy by making him hear voices "in his head" and they keep using the name "bruce" over and over to gas light him. When he finally gets free the new kid batman (Terry) asks him how he kept from going nuts. Bruce's response: The voice referred to me as Bruce. In my head, that's not what I call myself. the episode is Shriek
If anyone hasn't yet... Please go and check out Empire of The Sun. It has Spielberg and child Christian Bale.
It's an autobiographical film of the book by JG Ballard about his time in China during WW2 and life in prison camps.
JG Ballard became a very prolific author, most people know him for Crash, the controversial book about car crashes and sex. They made a film of it... No not the Oscar bait one! The Cronenberg 90s one with James Spader! A few years ago Tom Hiddleston starred in High Rise...
Anyway Ballard has loads of weird, sci fi, interesting work and I'm surprised that there havnt been way more film adaptations.
Anyway Bale like age 12 is absolutely AMAZING in this film. He shows all the wonder, optimism, resilience, enthusiasm that a kid can show in situations like those and really shows it in the emotional scenes. Some great support cast in John Malkovich, Nigel Havers, Joe Pantolianao and even Ben Stiller!
The ending of the movie is beautiful and heart-rending... With hindsight you can really see how talented Christian was back then. Its also a beautifully shot film and one of those Spielberg films you are surprised that he directed! 😂
Batman Begins is the best film in this trilogy to show Batman, Bruce Wayne, the entire character. I think also that he nails the part of Batman in Begins the most. The reason being they didn't have him overaccentuate his "smoker's voice" and the effects on it on Begins. The problem with the voice is it takes so much air to make, so he can't be the cold, calculated, erudite Batman when he can't speak more than a 5 words per sentence without getting winded.
Meant to say this in the last video about the Joker, he was like an anti- Mary Sue in "The Dark Knight". He experienced no set-backs. Even when he got arrested everything went according to plan. It was bad writing to have the guy carrying a bomb in his stomach in the right place at the right time to kill all the cops and to let Joker kidnap Harvey and Rachel off-camera. The "game theory" scenario with the two detonators also had a weakness - it should've been made clear either detonator would blow up both boats.
Combine that with some other problems (Two Face getting shoe-horned in, the silly Hong Kong stopover, stuff you mentioned) and this was the weakest of the Nolan trilogy.
They should've had Harvey disappear after the hospital scene and then later Batman and Gordon learn that half the mob has been killed and a bunch of other people related to Rachael's death. It would've been great because then he can come back as one of the main villains in the sequel and get a proper entrance, and then you get to connect the dots with Gordon and Batman that Harvey was the one who killed those people.
Harvey's fate at the hospital should've been a mystery to Batman. Then Batman can feel that extra bit of guilt and worry
Nothing. Nobodies perfect, but Bale - and the whole Nolan trilogy were so beyond good that we’re a little bit spoiled. No one has strung 3 movies together in a series with such a wonderful combination of depth, action, tragedy, victory, heart, and quality.
Lord of the Rings and the first Star Wars trilogy are also great trilogies. But for me - TDK trilogy tops them all.
The Batman voice, as well as the cowl are some of the most important aspects of Batman. He is calm, collective, and straight faced. That is EVERYTHING Christian Bale's Batman is not! Aside from his voice, his face looks cringey as hell, especially when it is pressed tightly against that mask which clearly didn't fit. His Batman Begins mask was much better, as well as how he'd done his voice in that movie.
Always preferred Michael Keaton's portrayal. As you stated, his Batman voice was way better. And he was just more naturally dark and intimidating without trying.
Plus I always liked how calm, silent, mysterious, subtle & theatrical his version was, whereas Bale just always too angry and aggressive for my liking. Keaton even had the better looking cape and cowl. Just his bat glares alone were spot on.
No one to move angry than Ben Affleck
Keaton look like old bruce wayne now lol
I feel like Batman's voice gets worse in each film, with the first one sounding more natural at the beginning but gradually worsening till the end.
Everyone will have their own opinion about something they don't like about batman no matter how hard these actors work hard to entertain the people who love and watch batman.
13:40 'The Bruce Wayne I know' sounds like you know him personally 😂. Nice video btw!
Definitely the best bat voice from him was the first movie if he kept that voice all movies I do think his Batman would have been better
Many Batman fans consider Christian Bale to be their favorite actor to ever portray the role, based on his turn as Bruce Wayne in Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises).
I don't. Keaton was the best Batman in my opinion but Bale was a way better Bruce Wayne
@@scinnyc how was Keaton the best Batman?🤣🤣🤣
@@skywalker2676 😒Because all the other Batmen were goofy. And dude from Twilight just ain't believable to me. Bale's Batman was probably the most goofiest version with that dumb azz voice, non fitting mask and those Power Rangers fighting moves. Keaton did not fit as Bruce Wayne but he was actually intimidating as Batman, unlike the others
@@scinnyc I think pattinson was pretty intimidating . It felt believable that the thugs were genuinely scared of him unlike Bale’s Batman for example. That intro scene was golden imo.
@@scinnyc he was one of the best but not the best
To answer your question on the bullet fingerprint thing my uncle does forensics and it is possible to create a fingerprint in the way Bruce did
This was a really, really good video!!!! So many good points! I’m one of the biggest Bat fans ever, but hey man, you called it out . 5 stars buddy!! 💯💯💯🙏🏼
10:17 - I recognize that there are issues with The Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole, but I'm not sure about some of these arguments, here.
Bruce didn't quit being Batman because Rachel died. He quit being Batman because Harvey died. And unlike the similar scene in Batman Begins, Alfred can't look him in the eye and say that this wasn't his fault.
"Thought I'd prepare a little supper."
"..."
"Very well."
"Alfred!? It was my fault! I made them leave the theater! If I hadn't gotten scared!"
"Thought I'd prepare a little breakfast."
"..."
"Very well."
"Alfred? ...Did I bring this on us? On her? I was meant to inspire good, not madness!"
"You have inspired good. But you spat in the face of Gotham's criminals, and didn't you think there might be casualties? Things were always going to have to get worse before they got better."
Some people don't understand intimidation... I hear Mr smoker voice and I'm not intimidated. While voice can help meance is more about eye contact low volume methodical pace punctuated by a physical act that implies torments to come.
Yeah I've never been able to stand Bale's Batman voice. I like his performance for the most part, it's just that damn voice that I can't take seriously.
Counter argument against blaming Joker: It would be pretty clear that Joker wouldn’t be around any of the area’s harvey killed his grudges. And he especially wouldn’t be around when harvey died because be was in the polices custody by that time, and autopsies would make it pretty evident he would had to have died around the time batman was present.
As for batman giving up: I think batmans retirement was more influenced by the harvey dent act putting crime in gotham at an all time low, aaaand his leg being absolutely screwed. When bane showed up, It was basically the perfect excuse for bruce to find a way to get back in the field. If anything, Racheals death does push him more into the batman persona. Or at least ostracizes him from a happy civilian life.
The only one of Nolan's Batman movies I saw in the cinema was TDKR and I thought it was OK. Life just got in the way for me getting round to seeing the other two. When I finally sat down to watch all three I think they are beautifully shot and full of great action but Bale's Batman voice is just like nails on a chalkboard for me.
Like you said, someone like Kevin Conroy just nailed that dark, intimidating tone required for Batman without the need for this weird growling voice that Bale does. Big mistake I think not reigning that in.
I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to take issue with Bruce Wayne just giving up his crusade entierly between Dark Knight and Rises. I've been given the argument that it's logical within the logic of the trilogy, that a writer should be free to reinvent the character and whatnots, but I still think that it is such a core part of the character of Batman that if you remove it, well it's not necessarily a bad character, but it's not Batman anymore. What's more it leads mimicking one of my most hated anime thrope: the time gap.
Batman's voice could've been fixed had they set up Christian Bale with a dialect coach and a collection of Batman/Bruce Wayne scenes from "Batman:TAS"/"Justice League"(No matter what else is said, Kevin Conroy was THE voice of Batman that all others should aspire to). The fact that Bale was open to having multiple distinct voices for the character makes this seem that much more useful.
For me not only did Bale’s Batman look goofy with the motorcycle helmet cowl that was way too small for his head, he also looked scrawny in the suit and looked like a GI joe. His Batman was supposed to be realistic, but his first villain was an immortal warlord. His Batman invented the cape-gliding which was never a thing until the Nolan trilogy. And his Batman was a murderer (not as bad as Batfleck’s body count was or Michael Keaton’s but still) he killed Ra’s al ghul, he killed Two-Face, he nearly killed my interest in the franchise…lol
This is thee most accurate video I've ever seen, or shall I say, I've always felt this exact same way and you've articulated it perfectly. This is why these are not my favorite Batman movies, despite their technical feats and other touches of brilliance. You said it best: "it was the best of Bruce Wayne, it was the worst of Batman." Even compared to... you know who. 🦇
All of the things you hated and thought were weak were my favorite parts of the movie / role
Love the vids, Infuso, and while I think you usually make great points, I have to disagree on one thing. I always understood that Batman takes the blame for Harvey's Death because, well, Harvey is clearly...dead. Gordon had a perimeter set up when Dent took the family hostage. The cops knew something was going on. You can't just say you don't know what's happening or blame the Joker, whose already in prison. Gordon would have to tell the police something, and if it were the truth, the mob would be set free because Dent's reputation is ultimately what put them behind bars. Batman took the fall because it was either him, Gordon, or Dent's reputation. He took the best option
I think one thing you’re missing about him hanging up the suit between the dark knight and rises. Is that they didn’t need him anymore. The city was a better place (for a while) without him.
From the first movie, I thought that his voice changes with voice changer device. It's realistic with all this tech, he would easily got recognized as Batman from his voice. And about the story, I think all of it makes sense. Like when he quit because the people didn't need him anymore and know him as a murderer. In the end he was forced to come back because he really is needed. All people have their own opinions, but for me it's still the best Batman
The "Bat Voice" as it's being called really started to grind in the 2nd movie and by DKR, it was simply tedious.
If the image of Batman wasn't enough to put fear into criminals by then....Well, his low grainy delivery of threats wasn't going to.
That aside, Bale was the best Batman on screen and I say that as a fan of the comics and the original TV series which I used to watch twice a week.
Bale was just convincing in the role and is probably the best actor to ever play The Caped Crusader.