Just another day in the garage. Needed some tooling arbors for the new mill, decided to make my own. 3 end mill holders and 1 slitting saw arbor -- 30 taper in this case.
You just can't buy the satisfaction of holding what you need in your hand without having to grind your teeth for a week waiting for it to arrive. I mean, you can, but have you seen what they charge for express delivery I mean goddamn
I am loving going through all the old "This Old Tony" videos, and catching up with where you came from as a machinist, knowing roughly how far you've come. It is going to be a sad day when I get through the rest of your library (I predict 1 week tops,) and have to wait for a new video.
my grandfather was a machinist for the L&N railroad here in Louisville. I like watching guys like you to learn about his job. fascinating! I always thought he was a mean old fart but I assume he had great talent. was a machinist for 40 plus years. thanks for your time and effort.
When we needed to "hack" a piece of custom tooling, we cut the taper, put it in the machine for which it was destined, and used tool holders on that machine to finish it. Concentricity was guaranteed (if you bolted down your tooling properly!)
Too much common sense in that. I did think that on making the taper & fitting it with draw bar - then hammering it home to make it a good fit. Then loosening the draw bar, tapping the taper loose and then retightening the draw bar to a normal amount and calling that 'it' for fit - then machining the business end. Thus ensuring the taper is well fitting prior to machining the business end. It's a pity those international tapers have 2 drive dogs. 1 would be better as that'd guarantee refitipeatability orientation.
good stuff however for the drilled hole drill it while the mass of material is still there. When you get down small there is no place for the heat to go and it gets hotter than hell. One thing you can implement instantly by the way is there are no laws against placing a plastic thing under the chuck for a second and dumping coolant, or better yet put some coolant in water and freeze it into various chunks such as dixie cups or whatever--it works quite well. I do that surface grinding also all the time. But when roughing and the item gets hotter than hell there are no police that will break down the door and arrest you should you dump coolant or use ice to cool it off quickly if in a rush.. I make universal arbors similar to your concept and I rough off alot of material to make the 1 inch shank I stay away .020 and dump coolant over it or ice--and move in for the finish passes on the spot. But by drilling so hot there are strange things that happen--the diameter heats up and first grabs onto the drill then in a second or 2 the total heat expands it--now as you drill deeper--the first part you drilled COOLS AND SHRINKS DOWN ONTO THE UPPER PART OF THE DRILL.. (note where the breakage of the drill occured).. When you go to press or knock the drill out from the other end heat up the outer part FAST AND HOT and knock within a few seconds--the drill may come out.
Hi Tony, i work chrome-moly steels alot for my work mostly 4140. to get it to chip well you need a pretty aggresive feed 0.2-0.3mm/rev with that feed and a decent chipbreaker it should come off nicely. even taking inly a few mms of the diameter.
Your videos are very entertaining. I work with metal cutting since I graduated in highschool twenty-five years ago and still love working with these machines. The Schaublin milling is a yet-to-be-true dream at least for me.
Great job! Love the indicator bit at the end! Know know where to tune when I'm feeling blue and need a laugh, thanks so much for taking the time to put these videos together and adding that comic flare!
+Stefan Gotteswinter Morse taper I've always found to be a bit trickier.. those are self locking, mine are not. I'd recommend against using wood though, the blueing always turns out so weird. ;)
I have truly enjoyed your videos and have learned a good bit from them. I enjoy your humor and the fact that you are not afraid to show when things go south. Regarding cold bluing of parts. I have done quite a bit of gun smithing and I learned a very simple trick to make cold bluing more effective. Try warming the part up a bit above room temperature. Not enough to effect the grain structure, just enough to make the solution bite deeper. You are spot on about the cleanliness though. Cold bluing solutions are so touchy. Your work looks great. Stay safe and have fun.
Thanks for your videos, glad to see someone else making his own tools. My dad was making a really heavy-duty drill press using an automotive transmission, it was huge. Unfortunately he passed away back in 1996 before it was done. Family wanted the money and could not see letting me run it in his name. Now that it is 2020 I have a mini engraving machine not large only 300 * 180 * 45 mm it is a steep learning curve converting. AutoCAD drawings to CAM g-code
Hello there Tony from deep down across the Pond !!! Like the style of Your Videos. No long drawn out delayed Turning Cutting runs. Explanations given. Set up shown. Run executed. Job done. Cool. Keep 'em rolling And Thanks for showing and sharing. All the best aRM
HUGE insperation, I just made two ISO 30 end mill holders.... 20mm and 25mm inspried by your video.I didn't have a collet big enough to fit the outside OD of the business end of the tool holder so I had to turn an arbor, first 25mm, then took it down to 20mm. I nice snugg fit and set scerws for secruring. they ran true and worked out well with light cuts... 1mm roughing, 0.25 final cuts.Thanks for the ver very cool videos that beginners, homeshop guys and pros can enjoy
Probably a bit late now but I was wondering if you could just press that broken drill bit out? I'm sure it's well and truly jammed in there but I'd be surprised if it was 25 tons of jammed in.
Ain't gonna happen, the Ultimate shear strength of 4145-ChroMoly is about 660 MPa. Assuming that the drill has fused on both sides a good 50 mm in and that it's width is 5 mm the force before it gives is 330 kN, or about 34 metric tons. ChroMoly is hardcore stuff. Material Properties: www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/SAE-AISI-4145-SCM445-G41450-Cr-Mo-Steel
I'm still will to bet with a good hyper therm or similar plasma u could cut that bit in half right between the flutes chisel out what's left done this a few times on broken taps
Give it to an astronaut, ask them to take it to the International Space Station and then throw it back to Earth. The impact just may loosen that drill.
@@millomweb if that fails, apply WD-40 and attempt again. repeat until success, or catastrophic destruction of both the part and the surrounding 10 kilometers of terrestrial landmass.
I've worked with 50CrMo4 a couple of times, and the experience I've had with it, on the lathe that I usually use (can't remember the model), is that to get the chips to break, I have to take very deep cuts and just 'force' the tool against the material. 2mm depth of cuts always seem to make those irritating meals of spaghetti-metal, but as soon as I change it to 3+mm it starts to break nicely at a feedrate of 0.2-0.3mm/rpm and letting my insert get a longer life, though I don't know whether your lathe would have the power to do that :) As for coolant, I use a lot of it when working with this material (but as a trainee-machinist I'm not sure whether I should do that, or just wait and let it cool off on it's own like I usually do with regular steel-types). You are right though, it gets hot as hell :P Greetings from Denmark :b
Man, I wish I kept up metalwork and engineering. I also wish I had room and money for a machine shop. Making your own tools is the most satisfying thing I can think of
As someone in the comments said below, for this type of material a lot of coolant helps and if you want it to chip reduce the rpm..you will find a sweetspot where it chips nicely..i use this material a lot making half shafts for vintage cars..its an excellent choice for your application.
I make a fair bit of my own taper tooling. My mill has a 30INT horizontal spindle, but I converted the vertical to a pneumatic drawbar and that is BT30. (The tapers are, conveniently, identical). My approach has been to make a sleeve for the spindle taper that accepts the 7/24 taper of either tooling. I first made a tapered bush to match the lathe spindle internal taper . (it is almost, but not quite MT4.5, but conveniently self-locking) then in-situ bored that to take my mill tooling tapers. (and marked the point adjacent to peg 1 of the D1-4. You could reference to the key of the L0 on the Student.) That means I can cut the taper as the first op and then pull the tooling back into the lathe spindle with a drawbar and be reasonably confident that it will run true in use.
4 years late, but when we have to make a toolholder concentric, we buy the blank with taper already cut, rough it out, and then stick a boring bar vertically on the mill table and put the toolholder in the spindle. Turn it on and bore it that way. Perfectly concentric every time
Thanks Tony for sharing this project! I've got an NMTB-30 Wells-Index that I need to make some holders for. This answers some of my discovery questions.... :)
Hey, TOT, I'm kind of surprised that you don't have a spark eroder for broken taps, bolts, and drill bits. They sell them fairly inexpensively through several companies, or there are plans for them online.
Great sense of humor. You get right to the point. None of the typical "Welcome to blah....blah...today we are going to...blah...but first I have 57 things I want to .....blah....." click, next video. I actually watched the whole thing and subscribed. Nice work on both the tool and the video!
great video, I'm always amazed at how much patience you have. this work is incredibly tedious, but rewarding and fun. The best part is watching your process for measuring and setting things up to get really precise parts. Amazing work.
42CrMo4 QT (note the QT!) is a joy to machine. Try this next time. And -I am on a mission- it is M 12, not 12 mm thead. Even Stefan G. is starting supporting this 'merican crippilisation (You'd say crippling, but that's not sophisticated enough) of the metric system and its infrastructure. End of mission. Nice job!
That is a sweet little mill. Except for the lack of a quill it has everything. Power feeds and rapid moves on all axis. Hefty tooling (compared to R8). Arbor operations. Its a real mill as opposed to a Bridgeport which is good for anything until you need to do heavy milling. The only thing better than your setup would be a mini horizontal with a built in rotary table. I’ve never seen one that would fit in the corner of a garage though.
Hey Tony, For stuff like flipping those for notching in the mill, I have seen guys that make exhaust collectors with multiple pie cuts use those magnetic dial angle finders when cutting pipe. Basically take some putty, glob it on the back of the dial then shove it on the end of the thing you wanna rotate, un clamp, spin, dial in to +/- a degree. You might even be able to use one of those magnetic digital angle finders (don't know if they work up side down).
Ave used a carbide die grinder bit to cut out a broken tap, that may work for that drill bit. Your videos are really helpful thanks for putting in the effort.
Tony I'm keen to know more about the bluing solution you're using. I don't recall you discussing that previously, but sorry if I missed it. I'm keen to see you discuss it in more detail in a video. As I understand it, you have a though hole to the point of that broken drill. Obviously EDM is the gold standard to remove it, but not all of us have an EDM sitting in the corner of the shop! I don't expect you are an exception to that rule. Have you tried pressing the broken drill out by pressing from the drawbar side, while heating the material with an oxy? No idea whether it would work, but 20 Tonnes can often do wonders when combined with a bit of heat! Generally speaking it won't damage anything if it doesn't work either. Try cermet inserts on that material in future. I'm a big fan of them and use Kyocera brand extensively. Not too expensive and stand up to hard materials well. They work well on 4140, no idea on 4150, but I would expect similar results. Very nice work on that slitting saw holder.
I don't recall who it was, i think it might have been Stan, but they reground the spindle of their milling machine using a die grinder fixed to the table. Tilted the head over to just the right angle, set up the grinder to go up inside the taper, and it worked out fine. You could potentially do the same thing with taper tooling, grind the taper on the lathe, then stick it in the milling machine like normal, you've just made a perfect setup for grinding the tool end of the holder
Very impressive work mate,inspiring. I made some tooling myself in 30 taper for my Elliott Milmor Super 16. I got around the concentricity issue by making a 30 taper tool holder for the spindle of my lathe. Was quite a lot of work but means I can guarantee concentric tooling every time. I made a draw bar to suit and it works well. As an asides it also means I can use my 30 taper tooling in my lathe should I want to do some milling or boring in the lathe. Really appreciate you videos mate.
+Andrew Wilson Thanks Andrew. I actually had the same though, make a 'receiver' for the lathe, but I don't have small enough tooling to get down into the small end of that female taper. I bet that holder comes in handy / convenient though.
That drill bit, do what we do with small broken taps get a carbide center cutting endmill, run it around 300 surface feet, and just slowly peck out the drill bit, we have an edm for buring out taps ECT, but if we have something that's already setup with and half run in a vise that's how we get it out
The problem is those are old style NMTB 30 which is somewhat old . Btw way those are drive key slots and the greased end fir the draw bar ti pull them up and into spindle taper. All the newer style CNC holders are CT (CAT) or BT metic version 39-40 & 50 Taper. They are also made to a high tolerance standards.
You are like the dad we never had growing up. I mean, I have a mechanically inclined dad who taught me a few things, but he is no where near as knowledgeable, precise or polite as you.
Many Thanks Tony. Great video and editing. Like the PIP inset and how you blasted through the repetitive stuff. Learn a lot from this one, mainly about not being afraid to cut taper tooling. Just worked my first 4140 and was please with the result on my wanna be peanut...That Moly looked like hot cream cheese coming off but was pretty recognizable as medusa razor wire with a bit of color. ~¿@ Your saw was amazingly straight so your tapers and concentricity must have been on the money! Beauty in metal work! Thanks for the hoot at the end. Great builds and Edutainment!! ~PJ
Several people suggested a spark eroder to remove the broken drill arbor I, also, like a Dremel with a stone attachment. I will use up 3 to 6 stone attachments but the broken pieces do come out.
First, I apologise for not reading through 325 comments to see if this has already been said: But Gas (or Plasma) nitriding of steels does not affect the geometry so might have been useful for these. (and you can mask threads and other features if required). There are specialised nitriding steels, but anything with Cr, Mn, Mo, V, W, Al, Ti in them will work. I have had many parts made from BS 817M40 (EN24) nitrided and it works very well. That said, I typically do not harden my spindle-nose tooling as I am a dilettante machinist and value my spindle nose more than my tooling.
When I am turning 42CrMoV 4 I take about 200 m/min and 0.3 mm/Rotation and I take about 2.5 mm in the radius. Always get beautiful small shavings. I am using a W-plate.
Very nice. Bummer about that drill bit. Maybe time for the home brew EDM project? With a second drawbar, you can also make use of NMTB 30 taper tooling that is more common. I've done some of the same but to get the tool bore spot on, I did the finish cut right in the mill with a boring bar clamped in the vise.
Without the possiblity to replace a part, that is a one off,, you know after 200 hrs put into the part . EDM it out. You gotta save it. One way or the other.
The birdnesting can or is a dangerous pain in the heinie eh. I know all about crome induced steels. Not an easy gig for sure. In the long run things turned out great bud.
"...easiest ways to scrap is to measure while its hot... " What if you check the temperature while measuring and adjust for the coef. of thermal expansion? Would that be reliable? Should be reliable with a part of uniform temperature. Wouldnt work with weld bead hot spots.
@@reasonsvoice8554 As long as the temperature if the part being measured is uniform throughout the part, it should work fine. It is a calculation by the machine operator. It's simple arithmetic.
If anyone breaks a drill like Tony did, don't use another drill (carbide or otherwise) to get it out. What you want to do is grab one of your old worn carbide endmills and take small pecks with the carbide endmill till you have gotten through enough of the broken drill flute that it just falls apart.
TONY! TONY! TONY!!! Unbelievable! People already started using "T.O.T" BEFORE TODAY. BEFORE I just invented it minutes ago. Crazy freaky man! What do you see in the chips for me TOT? Cheers, Mick 🇦🇺🍪
Nothing wrong with that slitting saw cut. Nice work! I'm not sure that I would have ever considered making my own toolholder. But I am now. Not sure if I should thank you or not....
Like CH3 collets for my Cincinnati 1B Toolmaster knee mill, circa 1963, only place i could find them still made are in Elmira, NY. FOR $190/ea!!!!!!! Luckily, the free mill came with a 5/8" one and i was smart enough to just buy a ER30 holder with a 5/8" shank.
I had thought of machining the taper in the lathe an bring the business end to size/spec already installed in the mill. (Just thinking outside the box) But i also dont know, if the mill can handle these kind of cuttingloads... Best regards
On the scrapped part with the broken drill bit in it, heat the part then spray the drill bit with a can of electronics air duster, hold the can upside down and you will spray extremely cold liquid on the bit. This might give you just enough clearance to jiggle the bit out with long nose pliers . You could also do a build up tig weld onto broked bit stub. Shouldnt be too hard to TIG down into that hole . Slip some thin aluminum in there to help you weld only to the bit and not welding to the part . You could get that out . This is how you get broken engine studs and exhaust manifold bolts out .
Great video again! I admire your can do it attitude and humour. Please keep up the good work. Currently making a fixed gantry CNC inspired by your build. Would like to see more on the gantry and any modifications you would make to it, now you had some time to get to know each other....
+ReP_Al Thanks Rep! Be sure to share your CNC build and good luck. Only thing I'd change is probably make it a little smaller. My eyes were bigger than my stomach.
you could probably make a holder for an ISO 30 or what ever with a hole in the back for a little draw bold just for lathe chuck and/or mill vice which would allow you to cut the taper and not worry about being able to hold it... maybe concentricity is too much of an issue and me having too green of horns to know it, but, it seems like it could be a decent idea if one were planning on making much more of these.
Eyeball it! EYEBALL it he says! Heretic! That they all came out pretty much perfect and fully functional means NOTHING! ;) Interesting and entertaining as always, Mr. Tony.
11:40 broke 40 bucks in drills and time spent in order to save on buying a 40 dollar piece. Would totally do the same.
You just can't buy the satisfaction of holding what you need in your hand without having to grind your teeth for a week waiting for it to arrive.
I mean, you can, but have you seen what they charge for express delivery I mean goddamn
@@jerryjantola of course, you work for a week to make the part but that does not matter goddamit
The DI running in towards the slitting saw gave me quite a chuckle. Great vid!
I am loving going through all the old "This Old Tony" videos, and catching up with where you came from as a machinist, knowing roughly how far you've come. It is going to be a sad day when I get through the rest of your library (I predict 1 week tops,) and have to wait for a new video.
Rewatchability is high
if you turn chromoly again the best solution is to use, and I'm sure you as an engineer understand this term, "a metric assload" of coolant
An Imperial Assload is more rigid and last much longer.
An assload is not enough. You are supposed to use at least a metrical fuckton
I really think it calls for a shitload of coolant
Just needs some cool soothing LUBE by the ASSLOAD. That should take away the pain. John, Australia.
@@joandar1 as an Australian after last week we could ALL use an assload of cooling
my grandfather was a machinist for the L&N railroad here in Louisville. I like watching guys like you to learn about his job. fascinating! I always thought he was a mean old fart but I assume he had great talent. was a machinist for 40 plus years. thanks for your time and effort.
Using tools to make tools ... I don't know why but watching it is absurdly captivating. Thanks for the videos!
Running out the cross-slide to prevent crashes is a good idea! Nice job on the tooling.
+ArtemiaSalina Thanks Artemia!
Revisiting this vid, cause i need to make some ISO 30 holder as well
Wow, like your brass-hammer-drawbar-wrench combo
I like the parts with using a drill for the automatic feed...
When we needed to "hack" a piece of custom tooling, we cut the taper, put it in the machine for which it was destined, and used tool holders on that machine to finish it. Concentricity was guaranteed (if you bolted down your tooling properly!)
That's what I was thinking.
Looking for this comment, glad it was made.
Too much common sense in that.
I did think that on making the taper & fitting it with draw bar - then hammering it home to make it a good fit. Then loosening the draw bar, tapping the taper loose and then retightening the draw bar to a normal amount and calling that 'it' for fit - then machining the business end. Thus ensuring the taper is well fitting prior to machining the business end. It's a pity those international tapers have 2 drive dogs. 1 would be better as that'd guarantee refitipeatability orientation.
@@millomweb you could mark one dog and one side of each toolholder
@@jonathanshaw6784 When I get power to my mill, that's my intention.
Your so hard on yourself. So far as i can tell, you're an incredible machinist! You should be proud.
good stuff however for the drilled hole drill it while the mass of material is still there. When you get down small there is no place for the heat to go and it gets hotter than hell. One thing you can implement instantly by the way is there are no laws against placing a plastic thing under the chuck for a second and dumping coolant, or better yet put some coolant in water and freeze it into various chunks such as dixie cups or whatever--it works quite well. I do that surface grinding also all the time. But when roughing and the item gets hotter than hell there are no police that will break down the door and arrest you should you dump coolant or use ice to cool it off quickly if in a rush.. I make universal arbors similar to your concept and I rough off alot of material to make the 1 inch shank I stay away .020 and dump coolant over it or ice--and move in for the finish passes on the spot. But by drilling so hot there are strange things that happen--the diameter heats up and first grabs onto the drill then in a second or 2 the total heat expands it--now as you drill deeper--the first part you drilled COOLS AND SHRINKS DOWN ONTO THE UPPER PART OF THE DRILL.. (note where the breakage of the drill occured).. When you go to press or knock the drill out from the other end heat up the outer part FAST AND HOT and knock within a few seconds--the drill may come out.
Hi Tony, i work chrome-moly steels alot for my work mostly 4140. to get it to chip well you need a pretty aggresive feed 0.2-0.3mm/rev with that feed and a decent chipbreaker it should come off nicely. even taking inly a few mms of the diameter.
Yup, this. Also, coolant, even mist coolant helps a ton. I have a feeling it was work hardening on him.
That's the best slitting saw I have seen ever much less shop made!! Great work, great video.
Thanks Sam, so far so good.
That's the truest running slitting saw I have seen yet!
this is the kid of quality content that we need on youtube and TV.
I hope you'll keep making interresting videos like this.
An hello from France.
Your videos are very entertaining. I work with metal cutting since I graduated in highschool twenty-five years ago and still love working with these machines. The Schaublin milling is a yet-to-be-true dream at least for me.
I love how you try to save every one time by speeding up stuff as small as moving something small around
Great job! Love the indicator bit at the end! Know know where to tune when I'm feeling blue and need a laugh, thanks so much for taking the time to put these videos together and adding that comic flare!
Good one! I am just about to turn a bit more Morsetapertooling - You got me motivated ;)
+Stefan Gotteswinter Morse taper I've always found to be a bit trickier.. those are self locking, mine are not. I'd recommend against using wood though, the blueing always turns out so weird. ;)
+This Old Tony LOL
Nice to see you break out the Pratt Burnerd KC15. I have one myself and I love it
I just got one today.... very happy boy
for milling slots you could have threaded a bolt in the end of part and indicated off of the flats.
Love this video. Also the overarm support, the tool post, these are my favorites. Your stuff on carbide is icing on the cake. Thanks again Tony!
I have truly enjoyed your videos and have learned a good bit from them. I enjoy your humor and the fact that you are not afraid to show when things go south.
Regarding cold bluing of parts. I have done quite a bit of gun smithing and I learned a very simple trick to make cold bluing more effective. Try warming the part up a bit above room temperature. Not enough to effect the grain structure, just enough to make the solution bite deeper. You are spot on about the cleanliness though. Cold bluing solutions are so touchy.
Your work looks great. Stay safe and have fun.
Thanks for your videos, glad to see someone else making his own tools. My dad was making a really heavy-duty drill press using an automotive transmission, it was huge. Unfortunately he passed away back in 1996 before it was done.
Family wanted the money and could not see letting me run it in his name.
Now that it is 2020 I have a mini engraving machine not large only 300 * 180 * 45 mm it is a steep learning curve converting. AutoCAD drawings to CAM g-code
Hello there Tony from deep down across the Pond !!!
Like the style of Your Videos.
No long drawn out delayed Turning Cutting runs. Explanations given. Set up shown. Run executed. Job done. Cool.
Keep 'em rolling
And Thanks for showing and sharing.
All the best
aRM
HUGE insperation, I just made two ISO 30 end mill holders.... 20mm and 25mm inspried by your video.I didn't have a collet big enough to fit the outside OD of the business end of the tool holder so I had to turn an arbor, first 25mm, then took it down to 20mm. I nice snugg fit and set scerws for secruring. they ran true and worked out well with light cuts... 1mm roughing, 0.25 final cuts.Thanks for the ver very cool videos that beginners, homeshop guys and pros can enjoy
I cant believe you are howling about the cold blue process. You are getting great results for cold blue.
The clamp from the V-block "Gave up the goast"...
I love ur vids, so keep on with ur good explanations and work.
Probably a bit late now but I was wondering if you could just press that broken drill bit out? I'm sure it's well and truly jammed in there but I'd be surprised if it was 25 tons of jammed in.
Ain't gonna happen, the Ultimate shear strength of 4145-ChroMoly is about 660 MPa. Assuming that the drill has fused on both sides a good 50 mm in and that it's width is 5 mm the force before it gives is 330 kN, or about 34 metric tons. ChroMoly is hardcore stuff.
Material Properties:
www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/SAE-AISI-4145-SCM445-G41450-Cr-Mo-Steel
I'm still will to bet with a good hyper therm or similar plasma u could cut that bit in half right between the flutes chisel out what's left done this a few times on broken taps
the drill isn't fused, it galled.
Give it to an astronaut, ask them to take it to the International Space Station and then throw it back to Earth. The impact just may loosen that drill.
@@millomweb if that fails, apply WD-40 and attempt again. repeat until success, or catastrophic destruction of both the part and the surrounding 10 kilometers of terrestrial landmass.
I've worked with 50CrMo4 a couple of times, and the experience I've had with it, on the lathe that I usually use (can't remember the model), is that to get the chips to break, I have to take very deep cuts and just 'force' the tool against the material.
2mm depth of cuts always seem to make those irritating meals of spaghetti-metal, but as soon as I change it to 3+mm it starts to break nicely at a feedrate of 0.2-0.3mm/rpm and letting my insert get a longer life, though I don't know whether your lathe would have the power to do that :)
As for coolant, I use a lot of it when working with this material (but as a trainee-machinist I'm not sure whether I should do that, or just wait and let it cool off on it's own like I usually do with regular steel-types).
You are right though, it gets hot as hell :P
Greetings from Denmark :b
Man, I wish I kept up metalwork and engineering. I also wish I had room and money for a machine shop. Making your own tools is the most satisfying thing I can think of
Re-watching everything from ToT for 2020 Christmas present...thank god I have a stable job
Great job, Tony! I really like that you're making the tools yourself rather than buying them all.Sincerely,Tom Z
+Tom Zelickman (Inspiration Metalworks) Thanks Tom.. most of what my garage does is make tools for itself :)
As someone in the comments said below, for this type of material a lot of coolant helps and if you want it to chip reduce the rpm..you will find a sweetspot where it chips nicely..i use this material a lot making half shafts for vintage cars..its an excellent choice for your application.
Lathe can smell fear...😂😂😂😂🙀👨🏻🔧😜. Tony, I’m not watching tv anymore thanks to you!!! Your hilarious 😆!
I make a fair bit of my own taper tooling. My mill has a 30INT horizontal spindle, but I converted the vertical to a pneumatic drawbar and that is BT30. (The tapers are, conveniently, identical). My approach has been to make a sleeve for the spindle taper that accepts the 7/24 taper of either tooling. I first made a tapered bush to match the lathe spindle internal taper . (it is almost, but not quite MT4.5, but conveniently self-locking) then in-situ bored that to take my mill tooling tapers. (and marked the point adjacent to peg 1 of the D1-4. You could reference to the key of the L0 on the Student.) That means I can cut the taper as the first op and then pull the tooling back into the lathe spindle with a drawbar and be reasonably confident that it will run true in use.
your videos are really great. And fun, that subtile humor of yours is just so good.
I'll admit. I panicked a bit at the end.
+DammitCoetzee Yeah he got me as well when I saw that saw feeding towards the indicator.
Haha
yeah, i cringed.
its possible to use a rotating ball bearing insert for the inditaor tool.
(or a Diy might be cheaper)
u are not alone
i cut a fair amount of tapers and have never considered using a drill motor to power the compound, that's genius!!!!!
i wish you made 1 vid a day.... i love watching your shit
if you dropped the "r" off 'your' that would be a really wierd comment.
I screamed loudly at that slitting saw vs the dial indicator. I’ll send you the invoice for the pants cleaner, tony.
4 years late, but when we have to make a toolholder concentric, we buy the blank with taper already cut, rough it out, and then stick a boring bar vertically on the mill table and put the toolholder in the spindle. Turn it on and bore it that way. Perfectly concentric every time
Thanks Tony for sharing this project! I've got an NMTB-30 Wells-Index that I need to make some holders for. This answers some of my discovery questions.... :)
Hey, TOT, I'm kind of surprised that you don't have a spark eroder for broken taps, bolts, and drill bits.
They sell them fairly inexpensively through several companies, or there are plans for them online.
Great sense of humor. You get right to the point. None of the typical "Welcome to blah....blah...today we are going to...blah...but first I have 57 things I want to .....blah....." click, next video. I actually watched the whole thing and subscribed. Nice work on both the tool and the video!
great video, I'm always amazed at how much patience you have. this work is incredibly tedious, but rewarding and fun. The best part is watching your process for measuring and setting things up to get really precise parts. Amazing work.
+alex rich Thanks Alex. Glad to have you watching.
42CrMo4 QT (note the QT!) is a joy to machine. Try this next time.
And -I am on a mission- it is M 12, not 12 mm thead. Even Stefan G. is starting supporting this 'merican crippilisation (You'd say crippling, but that's not sophisticated enough) of the metric system and its infrastructure. End of mission.
Nice job!
Great video. Always excited to see your content on my feed! Keep it up brother
+Josh Gallant Thanks Josh!
That is a sweet little mill. Except for the lack of a quill it has everything. Power feeds and rapid moves on all axis. Hefty tooling (compared to R8). Arbor operations. Its a real mill as opposed to a Bridgeport which is good for anything until you need to do heavy milling. The only thing better than your setup would be a mini horizontal with a built in rotary table. I’ve never seen one that would fit in the corner of a garage though.
Hey Tony, For stuff like flipping those for notching in the mill, I have seen guys that make exhaust collectors with multiple pie cuts use those magnetic dial angle finders when cutting pipe. Basically take some putty, glob it on the back of the dial then shove it on the end of the thing you wanna rotate, un clamp, spin, dial in to +/- a degree. You might even be able to use one of those magnetic digital angle finders (don't know if they work up side down).
Dang it TOT! I hate the way everything in machining is so easy when you do it. Thanks master from Swe, I'm learnings so mutch from your vids.
Ave used a carbide die grinder bit to cut out a broken tap, that may work for that drill bit. Your videos are really helpful thanks for putting in the effort.
Tony I'm keen to know more about the bluing solution you're using. I don't recall you discussing that previously, but sorry if I missed it. I'm keen to see you discuss it in more detail in a video.
As I understand it, you have a though hole to the point of that broken drill. Obviously EDM is the gold standard to remove it, but not all of us have an EDM sitting in the corner of the shop! I don't expect you are an exception to that rule. Have you tried pressing the broken drill out by pressing from the drawbar side, while heating the material with an oxy? No idea whether it would work, but 20 Tonnes can often do wonders when combined with a bit of heat! Generally speaking it won't damage anything if it doesn't work either.
Try cermet inserts on that material in future. I'm a big fan of them and use Kyocera brand extensively. Not too expensive and stand up to hard materials well. They work well on 4140, no idea on 4150, but I would expect similar results.
Very nice work on that slitting saw holder.
Great VIDEO!!!!
+Metal Tips and Tricks (Dale Derry) Thanks Dale, appreciate it!
I don't recall who it was, i think it might have been Stan, but they reground the spindle of their milling machine using a die grinder fixed to the table. Tilted the head over to just the right angle, set up the grinder to go up inside the taper, and it worked out fine. You could potentially do the same thing with taper tooling, grind the taper on the lathe, then stick it in the milling machine like normal, you've just made a perfect setup for grinding the tool end of the holder
Thanks for great video. Btw Behind the lath chuck there is a mores tapper throat to match tapered surfaces with machine surfaces.
Very impressive work mate,inspiring. I made some tooling myself in 30 taper for my Elliott Milmor Super 16. I got around the concentricity issue by making a 30 taper tool holder for the spindle of my lathe. Was quite a lot of work but means I can guarantee concentric tooling every time. I made a draw bar to suit and it works well. As an asides it also means I can use my 30 taper tooling in my lathe should I want to do some milling or boring in the lathe. Really appreciate you videos mate.
+Andrew Wilson Thanks Andrew. I actually had the same though, make a 'receiver' for the lathe, but I don't have small enough tooling to get down into the small end of that female taper. I bet that holder comes in handy / convenient though.
That drill bit, do what we do with small broken taps get a carbide center cutting endmill, run it around 300 surface feet, and just slowly peck out the drill bit, we have an edm for buring out taps ECT, but if we have something that's already setup with and half run in a vise that's how we get it out
Nice job Tony. Enjoyed, thanks for sharing.
+Steve S Thanks for watching Steve!
The finish on Tony's lathe never fails to shock me. My lathe needs some tuning up, or something...
Rob Mckennie the finish has to do with the RPM and quality if your cutting tool
@@theAustriaball Don't be silly, we all know it's the power of the magic trigon inserts. :P
@@joshuac6796 which is also known as the "quality of your cutting tool"
Nice wood shelf.
The problem is those are old style NMTB 30 which is somewhat old . Btw way those are drive key slots and the greased end fir the draw bar ti pull them up and into spindle taper.
All the newer style CNC holders are CT (CAT) or BT metic version 39-40 & 50 Taper. They are also made to a high tolerance standards.
You are like the dad we never had growing up. I mean, I have a mechanically inclined dad who taught me a few things, but he is no where near as knowledgeable, precise or polite as you.
Nice work Tony!👍
Rofl, that end bit with the indicator on the saw blade edge checking "run out".
Wonderful detail explanation and display thank you sir you are a gentlemen and a scholar.
The chips might be stringy, but the surface finish looks amazing!
almost forgot, what are you using for blueing?
+dans-hobbies no-name brand as far as I can tell. See other blueing comment.. more info there.
Many Thanks Tony. Great video and editing. Like the PIP inset and how you blasted through the repetitive stuff. Learn a lot from this one, mainly about not being afraid to cut taper tooling. Just worked my first 4140 and was please with the result on my wanna be peanut...That Moly looked like hot cream cheese coming off but was pretty recognizable as medusa razor wire with a bit of color. ~¿@ Your saw was amazingly straight so your tapers and concentricity must have been on the money! Beauty in metal work! Thanks for the hoot at the end. Great builds and Edutainment!! ~PJ
+pjsalchemy Thanks PJ!
Several people suggested a spark eroder to remove the broken drill arbor I, also, like a Dremel with a stone attachment. I will use up 3 to 6 stone attachments but the broken pieces do come out.
As always, amazing work and great humor.
The Saw Blade Wobbling a little bit. The Joke was so Funny
First, I apologise for not reading through 325 comments to see if this has already been said: But Gas (or Plasma) nitriding of steels does not affect the geometry so might have been useful for these. (and you can mask threads and other features if required). There are specialised nitriding steels, but anything with Cr, Mn, Mo, V, W, Al, Ti in them will work. I have had many parts made from BS 817M40 (EN24) nitrided and it works very well. That said, I typically do not harden my spindle-nose tooling as I am a dilettante machinist and value my spindle nose more than my tooling.
When I am turning 42CrMoV 4 I take about 200 m/min and 0.3 mm/Rotation and I take about 2.5 mm in the radius. Always get beautiful small shavings. I am using a W-plate.
Very nice. Bummer about that drill bit. Maybe time for the home brew EDM project? With a second drawbar, you can also make use of NMTB 30 taper tooling that is more common. I've done some of the same but to get the tool bore spot on, I did the finish cut right in the mill with a boring bar clamped in the vise.
Hi! This is the year 2020 calling (not a good year btw) - and the end of the video LITERALLY made my heart jump. Thanks 2016!
I used diamond coated dremile bits and tile drill bits to remove broken taps from holes (usually stainless steel causes taps to bind and break).
Also Tony please maybe do a little episode about these milling inserts one of these days!
Without the possiblity to replace a part, that is a one off,, you know after 200 hrs put into the part . EDM it out. You gotta save it. One way or the other.
nice power feed attachment. i now have another use for my makita drill.
The birdnesting can or is a dangerous pain in the heinie eh. I know all about crome induced steels. Not an easy gig for sure. In the long run things turned out great bud.
"...easiest ways to scrap is to measure while its hot... "
What if you check the temperature while measuring and adjust for the coef. of thermal expansion? Would that be reliable?
Should be reliable with a part of uniform temperature. Wouldnt work with weld bead hot spots.
Also taking thermal measurement of part I guess?
Do new cncs account for this now?
@@reasonsvoice8554
As long as the temperature if the part being measured is uniform throughout the part, it should work fine. It is a calculation by the machine operator. It's simple arithmetic.
If anyone breaks a drill like Tony did, don't use another drill (carbide or otherwise) to get it out. What you want to do is grab one of your old worn carbide endmills and take small pecks with the carbide endmill till you have gotten through enough of the broken drill flute that it just falls apart.
About 40 or 50 years ago I used to work in the Bath Iron Works and they used to blow out broken taps with a gouger
Great vid Tony. I use one of those tapping heads, they can be finicky to set up the correct clutch pressure but generally I give them a solid 7
TONY! TONY! TONY!!! Unbelievable! People already started using "T.O.T" BEFORE TODAY. BEFORE I just invented it minutes ago. Crazy freaky man! What do you see in the chips for me TOT? Cheers, Mick 🇦🇺🍪
Just about hurt myself laughing at the end, there. Thanks for the day-brightener!
Nothing wrong with that slitting saw cut. Nice work!
I'm not sure that I would have ever considered making my own toolholder.
But I am now.
Not sure if I should thank you or not....
ha!.. thanks Fred!
Like CH3 collets for my Cincinnati 1B Toolmaster knee mill, circa 1963, only place i could find them still made are in Elmira, NY. FOR $190/ea!!!!!!! Luckily, the free mill came with a 5/8" one and i was smart enough to just buy a ER30 holder with a 5/8" shank.
I had thought of machining the taper in the lathe an bring the business end to size/spec already installed in the mill.
(Just thinking outside the box)
But i also dont know, if the mill can handle these kind of cuttingloads...
Best regards
Know whats really fun with Chrome moly, contouring a 30" bbl between centers on a lathe :)
The chatter and vibration is insane.
On the scrapped part with the broken drill bit in it, heat the part then spray the drill bit with a can of electronics air duster, hold the can upside down and you will spray extremely cold liquid on the bit. This might give you just enough clearance to jiggle the bit out with long nose pliers . You could also do a build up tig weld onto broked bit stub. Shouldnt be too hard to TIG down into that hole . Slip some thin aluminum in there to help you weld only to the bit and not welding to the part . You could get that out . This is how you get broken engine studs and exhaust manifold bolts out .
Great video again! I admire your can do it attitude and humour. Please keep up the good work. Currently making a fixed gantry CNC inspired by your build. Would like to see more on the gantry and any modifications you would make to it, now you had some time to get to know each other....
+ReP_Al Thanks Rep! Be sure to share your CNC build and good luck. Only thing I'd change is probably make it a little smaller. My eyes were bigger than my stomach.
you could probably make a holder for an ISO 30 or what ever with a hole in the back for a little draw bold just for lathe chuck and/or mill vice which would allow you to cut the taper and not worry about being able to hold it...
maybe concentricity is too much of an issue and me having too green of horns to know it, but, it seems like it could be a decent idea if one were planning on making much more of these.
awesome info.... thank you. love your channel and the work you do
Great tooling build enjoyed the video thanks
+Tom Bellus Thank you.
Eyeball it! EYEBALL it he says! Heretic! That they all came out pretty much perfect and fully functional means NOTHING! ;)
Interesting and entertaining as always, Mr. Tony.
Ugh, my mill is INT30 as well. I find one second hand tool for every hundred 40 or 50 taper.
Love this stuff! That's old Tony!
Good job. That's prolly the least runout I've seen on a slitting saw holder
Those look terrific. Tooling can cost a fortune. Very nice job.
+1musicsearcher thanks!