I Bought A Minimill to see if they are Worth It
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2024
- I've been wondering if a minimill is worth buying for awhile now and looking around forums about the Craftex CX605 / SIEG X2 it's hard to tell what is tested and what is speculation.
I figured I would make a quick review and get to the bottom of the question. Can the minimill cut steel? Can an amateur hold tolerances and make decent parts? Tune in to find out.
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Tool collectors are vital in maintaining the time honoured tradition of irritating the beneficiaries of one's will.
Well said, it’s definitely true, I’m certain Mark DeFriest has many choice remarks about tools and wills as well.
My collection of electronic parts, computer chips and cables should also achieve that aim! Better than when we cleared out my late mum's sideboard and threw out her almost worthless wedding presents and some aluminium tea and coffee pots.
I feel called out.
"One day, son, this will all be yours"
*gestures to piles of miscellaneous cräp
i feel bad for whoever inherits my loot pile. i hold onto all the iron i can get my hands on, lol
Got a mini lathe for by 18th birthday. About 5 years later having "basic machining" experience on my resume helped me land my current job where being able to fabricate an occational part on a mill or lathe is an asset.
That’s awesome! It’s an extremely useful skill to have.
Same thing for me! Bought a manual mini metal lathe and brought a machinist hammer into the interview that was .0015 - .002 thou from target dimension. Can't say it landed me a job, but I'd like to believe it did.
Where I'm from you aren't allowed to use a mill or lathe if you aren't properly (officially) trained.
:D
Same here.
I litteraly got my internship over my machine tool restoration project.
Thats how, Keep exploring.!
Running larger equipment can give someone unreasonable expectations of what a small lathe or mill should do. Tiny horsepower and tiny machine means tiny cuts. I have found that having even small machines at home is super useful for DIY project. There are so many things that pop up that could use a spacer or a bushing, a custom over-sized key or just cleaned up on the lathe with a file. And once you have the machines you can use them make parts to make them better. Rock on tiny machine owners.
expectations can easily be exaggerated both on a persons 'real needs' and the output for the investment... I have an even simpler (AKA cheap) 750w pillar drill (yes... drill) and an even cheaper compound base for occasional Aluminium but mostly hard plastics. I don't need anything more than 0.1mm accuracy and i'm super happy with the output. As seen here you can get the most out of anything by clamping stuff down 'PROPERLY' and minimising the slack via the gibs. but above all; keep expectations realistic
exactly why I purchased a mini mill and mini lathe after leaving my previous employer. I had grown accustomed to having access to those machines for personal use, and I missed it. It's so nice to be able to just make simple things that would otherwise be a long wait with shipping costing exponentially more than the price of the material.
THIS ! I am always afraid to let anyone near my small Proma lathe, because they would ram that and went 1.5mm cuts, my poor little boy trembles, when he hears we gon cut steel today.
Exactly, appropriate material, tooling geometry and depth of cut are important. Chip load can't really change much or you're just rubbing and work hardening the material
yes i agree, there are times i would love to have a mini mill and lathe.
but i can not afford the cost of even hf stuff. or make the purchase qualify in my budget.
2:25 Use aluminum foil for finetuning. It's about .001", so folding it over a few times can give a good range of thicknesses.
Use feeler gauges as shims. Cheap shims.
Pop cans are .004" and beer cans are usually .002" they are the traditional bike shop shims!
standard aluminum foil is .006
If using it for headgear, remember that it takes at least five layers to block government control signals.
0.006mm, perhaps? Aluminum foil is way thinner than aluminum beverage can sidewalls, which are 0.004” thick.
You probably did far more initial setup than 99.9 % of the complainers.
I bought a mini lathe and found a new hobby: hotrodding my mini lathe! I learned how to lap and scrape ways, made and installed stops, saddle locks, quick release tail stock… the list goes on. Meanwhile, it was capable of really good work. Lest scoffers say I don’t know how well a good machine works, I worked on Hardinge lathes for decades. Clearly, these mini lathes are no match for a hardinge, but they are satisfying in their own right. It’s all about knowing your tools.
Hardinge machines do set high standards. They may spoil you.
I’m glad I learned on a South Bend so I could appreciate a Hardinge’s sheer luxury. As I said before, it’s all about learning and understanding your machine and what’s happening at the sharp end of the tool.
@@trackie1957 When I bought SB was a lot cheaper than chinese, and those lathes were incomprehensible, anyway. Every change in model size was a completely different feature set. SB was more than adequate in the day, and parts are easy to find.
Great video mate - funny and informative. The first mill I ever used (1975 as a 15 year old) was a Deckle FP1 and I had no idea what a milling machine even was until I used that. I went to trade school a few weeks after starting that job (an apprenticeship in Instrument Making) and was asked to make some parts as part of an exercise. They only had old well abused and worn out Bridgeports and I couldn't get a decent finish. I told my instructor "I never have this problem on the mill where I work." so he asked what type it was. When I told him it was a near new Deckle FP1 he looked shocked and replied "They let YOU use a Deckle?!" I felt privileged and insulted all at once.
There was a deckle group here in Toronto. When i was looking for a mill table to use as a welding fixture, I bumped into some of these guys at a machine rebuilder that was retiring out. They tried to give me a similar machine that had two heads and tables, not sure why, and I wish I could have taken it, but I had decided to be satisfied with my Clausing 85XX.
@@tacticalskiffs8134 Using a Deckle mill table as a welding fixture would be like using a Faberge egg as a door stop! But it's a free country.
I started out with a harbor freight mini mill and mini lathe when I first got into machining and metal working.
I slowly graduated to slightly larger benchtop machines and ended up with a full sized gunsmithing lathe and a CNC mill.
When I retired, I sold most of my metal working machines thinking I'd no longer have much use for them; boy was I wrong.
I sold off my mini lathe many years ago, but I kept the mini mill all this time. I still own it and I still use it and, I just recently bought another mini lathe.
It's true that they require alot of tuning up to get them to run accurately; or, accurately enough for hobby stuff but, with a little experience under your belt that really isn't that hard to do.
Same boat sold the big mill and lathe and spot welder when I sold the shop. Had to buy replacements not quite as big but still good enough.
It's par for the course.
Column won't hold tram ? Remove big nut, remove column, Measure holes and bolt diameter sizes, Get on lathe and turn down a sleeve to fit bolt. Make outside diam large enough when in position INSIDE the column in line with the bolt to be in contact with the two inner faces of the column. You will now be tightening the nut up to a solid column instead of tightening up to a hollow structure which can flex, loosening the nut.
Minimills are absolutely fine for hobby machining. The main issue you're going to find is that many of the issues brought up are probably with using it for business purposes in mind. As in when someone says it can't be used on steel I have always read that as them saying you can use it but the amount of time is not cost effective. I'd also like to point out that you had it go out of tram on the video and your final test was checking after a clean up pass? Not saying roughing will definately make it go off tram but you basically gave it the easiest tast short of using a 1/8" endmill. Tolerance wise you'll basically be okay as long as you're taking slow small passes and creeping up on it but again this is unnaceptable for job shop type work as it takes far too long. I wan't to stress that I have no issues with mini mills but just remember their scope is very limited.
Good post. I'd like to add that due to the all-in-a-line bolts that connect the z pillar to the x-y table the system is prone to nod in the x axis. At the highest z from the table you sometimes (yes, in my case) .128 +,- from TDC. So you may get ~accurate and small or sloppy and tall, but you will never get accurate and tall. My purchase of one has been a worthwhile learning experience since I came to the trade with no experience at all. If you know nothing and want to learn I wouldn't turn one down if it was given to me like I would now.
Excellent point, for producing parts in a production run it wouldn’t be possible to keep pace with full sized machines. As for the testing I see how that was confusing! I didn’t do any re-alignment after I made the t slot nut so the full scope of the test was the roughing and finishing of the t slot nut, plus the clean up pass, after which there was no shifting. I was mainly curious if there was some weirdness going on from vibrations caused by the larger endmill
I used a Sieg X2D (the fixed Z column version of the mill in the video) to start my business. I built my own cnc conversation using Centroid CNC Acorn and closed loop steppers. I added a belt drive kit and a 1.1kw spindle motor. That little mill allowed me to start my business and get a real foothold. I'm now running a Syil X7 and I'm on my way to saving for a Brother Speedio or something else. Not quite sure yet. Long winded way to say that these little mills are great. Also check out John Grimsmo. He built up from one of these minimills to one of the craziest cnc machine shops I've seen in Canada.
Love to hear the success stories. The whole goal of this video was to show that these are very capable machines so it’s nice to see that I’m not mistaken!
It stands to reason that a small machine can only take small cuts. It's right in the name, it is a mini mill.
I have a CX-605 as well, had it for a few years now. I fixed the "noise" issue by changing the gear sets from plastic to cast gears* (*little machine shop) and using a good high pressure grease cut the racket down with good results. I don't have a tramming issue, I think because I literally stripped the machine down scrubbed the packing grease off of every mating surface. I also have a CX-708 Lathe which has been working without issue, it too was noisy but changing the oil and adding Lucas Oil treatment to the gear box make an amazing difference. Great video thanks for the share!
Changed my plastic gears to brass gears that I cut myself using a hardened silver steel hob ( Rack type cutting edges, not spiral, dimensions in handbook) and a dividing head, (40 to 1 ratio) then I made myself a full set of plates that I drilled myself, (Hole positions on internet, done on Milling Machine). Also replaced the plastic change gears with brass and aluminium on the mini lathe,
It seems to me (admittedly not a machinist, just curious) that the smaller machines offer a cheaper solution if you are willing to input labor to offset the price/space requirements. Which is why it appears to be more popular among hobbyists or those with small needs. Those who need these machines daily cannot afford 'extra' time each go to ensure everything is square. Which is a fair assessment. I think it would be beneficial to actually see the labor you, or others like the video author, ACTUALLY put into improving the performance of these machines. Like when the author admits he needed to tighten down the platform more.
I have machining experience (and a much larger lathe and mill in my garage) and 15 years ago or so bought a Chinese mini-lathe and mini-mill similarly "just to see what they were all about." There are a wide range of opinions from "works fine for me" to "these can be viewed as a kit and you have to fix and improve almost everything." I think this variance is due to a variability in the quality machine to machine, and a variability in expectations. This is the first such machine for many and they don't know what a good quality machine is like. Others DO have experience and can spot the limitations and instantly realize why there is chatter when maybe there shouldn't be and so forth.
I agree completely. If ever someone wants to get into machining I always tell them the best quality and the biggest you can handle! Generally the jobs you pick up or tasks you pick up will be determined by machine size specifically with smaller machines. The smaller stuff generally will have issues though where everything needs to be corrected. Not always but a good chunk. Staying within the capabilities of the smaller machines are important as well even though on a bigger machine those capabilities are generally more maximized.
I have a mini mill and never had a problem. Nothing ever moved and I was able take deep cuts in material with no chatter in aluminum and steel. You just need a basic idea of speeds and feeds, upgrade to a belt drive, and get something better than a screwless vise. Also using industry grade cutters make a big difference. The only limitation I still hit was the size material I can hold in it. So quick cuts I need generally work out, but larger parts I go use a friend's Bridgeport like when I made an exhaust spacer. But I was able to take about an inch depth of cut on aluminum with my mini mill and nothing ever chattered or moved.
I suspect it also makes a huge difference just who you bought it from - the crap castings and terrible finishing on some of them may have started at the same foundry as the good ones. But they could for instance be the quality control rejects from the places that sell reasonably good machines being sold on by somebody else etc... I know my mini mill has a surprisingly good spindle (at least for what it is) but the table is pretty terrible - probably salvageable but I've not really got around to invesitaging that.
agreed. i'm a musician and i've had my 6-string electric bass for almost a decade now. i was working at a music shop, and the owner was a bass player, so we had everything from beginner models to $8000 6 string Zons. none of them felt right.
then one day, i unpacked an LTD D6. it was magic, effortless, just...unreal. AND it was the cheapest 6 string we sold, it listed for $500. and i can almost guarantee the next one off the assembly line played like shit haha
hahaha.
people who use one of these. mills with the rotation of the tool instead of against. ( like it has a ballscrew without backlash, )and then look weird that their tool is destroyed or the surface is shitty and inaccurate.
When buying these machines, it is IMPORTANT to understand that all the castings are finish cut in one go.
Consequently, they are ALL warped.
When one side is cut, the stresses are released, and the metal changes shape.
After initial cutting, the casting should be left to warp, and then be final machined.
Therefore, the first task, is to determine the best datum surfaces to make flat, and then get everything square.
Ideally you need another milling machine, but I re-engineered mine with a surface plate, 4mm float glass, and a large variety of abrasives.
... It was a huge task.
Don't forget to 'grind in' the circular pivot bearing surface to the pillar.
This enables the pillar to be clamped solid.
Prior to assembly, you will need to add rigidity.
Add two bolts to the base, just past the '3 screw fulcrum point' on the pivot block, so that the base has four bolts around the fulcrum point.
The three screws, are almost inline, providing limited rigidity (considering the pillar and head, are flexing around the 3 screw fulcrum point).
On the pivot block, there is only space for two additional 6mm screws (so use hardened screws).
I added concrete to the pillar, to add mass.
Finally; cast a concrete base.
I embedded a pre-cast flat cement garden slab for the mounting surface, and rub ground the base to the slab.
This is a lot of work, but you end up with a proper milling machine for a cost of just £750
Obviously, having another mill, and a surface grinder, would make this work a simple task :)
Exactly why people should seek an old Clausing or similar mill. At least he has a dovetail column. The round ones are near useless.
Did you watch the Video?
Now, THAT would make a great video! You could really contribute to UA-cam if you had a channel. I really don't know if you have a channel of your own or not. I am serious though when I say that you should think about becoming a UA-cam creator, I'd watch your video's!
Absolutely what this man said!!!
I had to true up mine out of the box.
What a great video. I have a hefty lathe and an equally hefty miling machine in my workshop.
Recently I helped a customer of mine set up a mini mill very similar to yours. We had exactly the same issue with tramming in both the X&Y axes. Once bolted down we had a go at milling some small blocks of alloy and steel, and I was surprised at how good it was.
My machines are capable of taking 3-5mm cuts in hard steel if need be, but on a mini mill or lathe that's impossible. Light cuts should be the order of the day. I found that on the mini mill 20 thou was about the maximum on steel, and about 40 thou on alloy
I think that a lot of people who slag off such machines are simply taking cuts that are too heavy, and all machines have a limit as to how much they can handle. A bad workman blames his tools etc.
This is awesome, I'm glad I've found your channel. Thanks for the content!
great humor, solid insight and great attitude! which all made for a great video, subscribed!
The haters simply don't know how to adjust and tune their machines
You're an entertaining presenter with a good mix of humour and seriousness, first vid of yours I've watched and will definitely watch a few more. I feel you're deserving of many more subscribers.
glad to see im not the only one with the idea that tools are what you make of them not what they are out of a box.
Correct. Remember, and acknowledge, that all the magic is in the operator, not the machine.
nothing beats something made for the job,
i always look at "off the shelf" as it'll do for now lol
Artist makes art not the paintbrush. Although better brushes make things easier.
i always laugh when i go to a job and they say "no modified tools" literally every single thing I own besides a few socket sets have been modified to some degree
I've had one of these machines for about 20 years now. After using it for a while with the gear drive supplied I changed to belt drive (bought as a kit) and I think it was really worth the conversion, much smoother running. I find that it max's out at about a 10 mm (3/8") end mill or slot drill for normal cutting work (but usually stick to 6 mm /1/4") and 12 mm (1/2") for light surfacing.
this video popped up in my recommendations. very cool video and I like your humor! you got yourself another sub.
the best addition will be a stiffening plate at the back of the column, and then a 3 axis DRO - this will cost you about $ 250 in LED or about $300 in LCD, both with scales to fit your mill. I have made a polyVee drive myself and do not regret it - there are instructions on youtube and the internet as how to do it. Another tip I can give is to 'cap' the drawbar and give it a square end - a spanner is way more easy on the spindle bearings than a hammer to loosen the MT3 tapers, and a spring loaded spindle stop will be a nice addition too.
I did the stiffening plate too. Had to tap a bolt hole at the back of the frame, and in the column, but that is a lot better than having a colmn shift totally mess up a work.
Haha, I was practially halfway through my comment about the jacobs chuck. Good stuff dude!
These machines are made by more than one company and the quality can vary. Don't buy from the cheapest supplier and try to get a look at the machines before you buy. Both the lathes and the mills are quite capable machines within their size limitations. The main thing I don't like on some of the lathes is where they only have a limited range of belt changes and rely on an electronic speed control. One idea to increase the friction on the tilting column would be to fit a paper gasket. This is also a useful trick to help a job have a good grip on the table or vice face.
He’s in Canada and unfortunately we have fewer choices in suppliers, unless you want to pay a little extra to import something (which I did).
I just love the ti-83plus in the intro
Fantastic!
Thanks for making.
When I try to run my mini mill like I run my bridgeport I get crummy results. When I run my mini mill with responsible feeds, speeds, cutter size, and DOC for the machine, I get fantastic results in even very hard materials.
Turns out basic machining fundamentals don't care how big the machine is.
Keep up the great work!
"shop calculator" I lost it. Guess I need to pull out the TI-89 from all those years ago and start writing programs again!
Good video! Thanks for the humor! I've been loving cutting steel on my minimill.
I had an Enco mini mill in my garage in the 80’s, used it for all kinds of hobby projects. Definitely sturdy enough for milling steel, but only after fine tuning/tightening up from factory assembly and not trying to hog all the material off in one pass. Wouldn’t mind having one again.
you won me over with the maker-v-tool collector bit hahah
Toolamker for over 50 years (Well, I didn't START as a Toolmaker!). It warms my heart to see a newcomer such as yourself with such a positive attitude and the ability to address the small deficiencies in an inexpensive machine. One suggestion is to find a REAL Milling Vise rather trhna a Toolmakers vice.. (although for the work that you're doing, should suffice). In five years you'll be amazed at your skil sets. Keep on. There are millions of tools and parts that are well within your capabilities. Those Capabilities will only increase with time. Very nice.Best to you!
Thank you for the encouragement! I figure a good attitude and willingness to learn is always a good place to start. I’ll be sure to keep an eye out for a proper vice!
Love the video, I am a forever lurker but I had to instant subscribe after your maker vs tool collector scene.
Can’t wait to watch you learn and cut your teeth as a trail blazer for the rest of us!
Nice test, thank you. Your mill and your cutters would really enjoy some cutting oil though. 😊
Thanks for the tricks. I bought a mini-mill years ago, and had been using it for some rough machining, but one day I will have to use your techniques to fine calibrate the column.
I don't know much about machining, but I have a pretty serious background in electronic and physical/dimensional calibration. I knew right off the bat that you were going to get better results just from a thorough setup. It is also worth mentioning that over time parts will wear, and temp/humidity will change and cause variations, meaning you'll have to occasionally go back through the setup.
Great video man. I'm happy with my combination bench top lathe/mill. i use it mostly for repairing metal and plastic. I really pushed the mill to the limit by making a anvil out of a rail road track. Only negative was i needed to repair the motor control board as the vibration shook some parts free. No problem im an electronic engineer. Everything works great again. Only thing i plan to do is reinforce the mill column so it doesn't move under load. That does cause problems on precision work with steel.
I have the ridgid column version of the Mini Mill. It has been used for years and served me well. A few electrical gremlins sorted out over time, Sieg have a good spares supply in the UK.
I put a dro on the Z axis. But never bothered with the x & y axis. I should do, it will be super useful but the space for the encoders is very limited.
Any ideas are welcome.
After my mini mill inevitably broke the gears, I had a great project for the lathe - making aluminum pullies to convert the mill to v-belt drive. Best thing I ever did for the mill. Now it's quiet, runs with less vibration and when I do something stupid, the belt slips instead of it blowing up the gearbox. SO much more pleasant to use. 100% worth doing.
Had my mini mill now for many years. Mods- gas strut alongside the column to prevent spindle dropping, changed the gears for drive belt, both make it much nicer to use. Yes I use the jacobs chuck a lot for most things, accurate enough for what I use it for on daily basis.
just discovered your channel and im invested bud. Good shit dude
Thank you Sir. a very interesting and useful vid.
I have both a mini lathe and mini Mill. Both have worked great. Recently I am creating an open view case for a Ford Escort Transaxle for illustrative purposes at car shows. Have had to cut perfect holes in plate steel for five bearing races. The mini Mill along with a rotary table mounted to it has done the job beautifully. The races fit snug with no play. When holding the race in the hole I can barley see any light coming through the circumference. All done without a DRO ( Digital Read Out). There's a technique to it, but once you get that down the holes are perfect. Nice thing also is when I cut a hole I also get a perfect circle of steel to make gears out of for a later project. It's not necessary to cut a center hole in the circle Plug but I do anyway. That way if I do use the plug for a gear it already has a perfectly centered hole for a drive shaft with no run-out. ALL DONE ON A MINI MILLING MACHINE! I will say this though...when I received my Harbor Freight mini Mill there was a broken wire in the switch box I had to repair to get it to turn on.
Learned some things here. Thank you for that.
This is a great demonstration of the capabilities of these cheap mini mills. If you're careful and patient, you can absolutely machine useful parts. Wait until you see what heavier machines can do!
I found that the main drawback of the small machine is column rigidity, not only side to side but fore-aft (from the perspective of operator). To fix mine, I bolted 1/2" aluminum plate to the machine column secured with 4ea 1/2" bolts to the column as well as with the column swivel nut/washer arrangement. Bottom of the plate has a stout aluminum 2x2" angle which ties the vertical plate to an additional 1/2" base plate to which the machine base is bolted. Space between the back of the column and the machine base is filled with a fitted aluminum plate appr. 1/2". Vertical plate holes are a bit oversize to allow tramming left-right. Tramming fore-aft adjusted with a shim. Decent finish when cutting steel with either fly cutter or 1/2" endmill at 0.025 depth of cut. Still stable and in tram after 5 years of use.
There are additional updates and tweaks - left-right-axis motor drive, air spring to balance the milling head, larger vertical motion wheel and more accurate single-piece milling head drive. Mechanical indicators on all 3 axes. Much better than original but not a Bridgeport. Alas, no space.
I bought a mini mill (rebranded) from a local provider where I think they do some basic QC checking on the ones they order.
Mine is the exact same model as yours.
There's always an initial setup time in getting everything perfectly square although mine was dead on left to right (only .001" over the whole length) and only had about .004" front to back which was fixed by shimming under the tower where it connects to the base.
That was about 6 years ago and since then it has been invaluable for me in getting projects done, I use it also for my knife making sometimes and it's all around a great tool.
Just like others said, don't expect to be hogging off 1/4" chunks with a small mill like this. Usually i don't go over .030" if I want to remove material quickly. If not I usually just take half that if I'm not in a hurry.
But to be fair, you probably could get away with hogging off .060" with a quality face mill as long as you have everything else set up very rigid and the mill tuned to eliminate any play.
Good video! I have the same mill and installed the Little Machine Shop air assist for the mill head. It included a new longer rack that increased the Z axis movement by about 3”, with about 1.3” of that in the upper direction if you remove the factory stop. When I removed the old spring mechanism it provided perfect mounting holes for a dro bracket. The Y axis dial has no thrust bearing but a hard steel washer made it every bit as smooth as the X axis. Finally, I used the nylock nuts from the bolts that held it in the crate to replace the double jam nuts holding the X and Y dials, making it much easier to adjust them.
I follow the BerylCNC mantra of "light cuts" on any of this Chinese mini machinery. It's simple physics - the smaller the area of a given pressure, the higher the force on the material. So if you use sharp carbide and take a light cut, you'll push your cutting force up into the range of the "production machines". If you're making prototypes or one-offs, these machines can work great. Also helps to not trash up your good machines on sketchy jobs, so they are good for that too.
I have a mini mill from Seig and have had no issues with it . Along with my 7" x 12" mini lathe I have made a Sine bar (With in 1/10,000 of an inch accurate) I've made two fly cutters and yesterday I made an Arbor for a diamond wheel to sharpen my gravers with. I've made other parts that I could have bought but it was more fun to make things and cheaper too.
I had one of these heavy-duty wood lathes and it was absolutely fine. I know not as precise but was a very capable machine.
I have one. As benchdrill, its really good (compared to drill). As mill, it has several weakness 1) not stiff enough 2) power (electronic speed contol is weak in low RPM, not much torque) 3) size, its impossible to put parts under cutter because there is not enough room. But if you do small parts, its OK.
I've had a mini mill for 16 plus years, don't do a lot with it but when I do, it gets me by. It's for small hobby type of work. If I needed anything larger or super precise, I'd go to a machine shop and have it done on a Bridgeport or similar. Don't expect the world from it!
I loved the "legal disclaimer." 🤣
Just remember to explain to people, making they own Tee-Nuts, never finish the thread, all the way through. The studs, should stop more than a full thread, from the bottom of the nut. Simply because the amount of force, getting multiplied by threads, is enough to snap off a chunk of the brittle iron table.
You're going to end up with a million subs. You've got what it takes: Great video and audio quality, top notch script writing, narration, pace, editing, humor. The whole nine yards. Thumbs and subs.
Thanks for your support! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Would love to hear more about how you use that that ti-83 calculator in the shop! Always looking for ways to make the math easier.
I got my mini mill from little machine shop and quite honestly use it mostly on hardwoods, aluminum, plastic and brass. fits my needs perfectly. Also make the occasional R/C part as needed (when i break stuff)
I added a little machine shop upgraded fixed Z column to my now quite old mini mill which gave it more Y travel. I also did the belt drive. The main thing that annoys me about my mill is the controller goes into overcurrent protection very easily. Like drilling aluminum and it will often shut off. I'd replace the motor & controller if there was an inexpensive alternative.
Good video, thank you. The spacers you used under the piece to hold the piece in the vice looked like a couple of brackets; did you have someone else mill those to size before you were able to use them on your mill or did you painstakingly file them by hand? I only ask because my expectation was that you'd otherwise struggle to cut parallel sides to a piece. Often it's those first references that are the hardest to make without a mill.
I have a Grizzly that is very similar to the Central you're showing. I've cut steel, aluminum, plastic and wood with no issue. All that's needed is recognizing what you're working with and adjusting speeds accordingly. Granted, it has a little more backlash than full sized machines but I like mine.
Definitely interested in seeing a homebrew belt-drive upgrade. 👍
Fresh review. Smashed the Subscribe button. TY for sharing. 🤗
If you ever break the nylon gear, just 3D print a replacement. PLA works just fine. I havent broken the gear again. But it is a mechanical fuse. So im not worried if it does.
Nylon print is better.
My brushless mill is super smooth and quiet, maybe I lucked out, I’m in Canada and got it at Busy Bee Tools, was able to tram mine super close too, almost dead on, as close as I need it for sure. I’m thinking same rebranded mill as other sellers have, anyway more than happy with it for a hobby mill. My lathe needed more cleanup on some rough edges, replaced a few crappy cap screws with good ones, spent some time with motor alignment and now happy with it too, w other the price to me for sure.
In my opinion, a 'small' branded mill or lathe can be a valued asset to a garage/hobbyist's shop. At 65 I had more time to play with projects. Was intimidated by the thoughts of adding larger/heavier/costlier machines to my small shop. For a bit over $3,000 both machines were added to my workspace, positioned and secured by myself. Now instead of +/- 1/32 I can easily work to +/- .001. Tooling costs continue but it has all been worth it.
Those koru toga pencils are so nice. Good choice. Had mine for many moons, even use it for D&D and Pathfinder character creation.
You need to drill and ream a tapered hole to the base of that vertical column. Tram it level, then just drill and ream the tapered hole. Fit a tapered pin, tap it in, head square and physically prevented from drifting. French Huron Mills had this, great method....🤔😳😏🇬🇧
I have something very similar, a Little Machine Shop 4190 I bought as factory refurb with the DRO removed. Essentially your machine with belt drive, bigger table, 20 tpi leadscrews, and solid column. It'll pretty much eat aluminum with 3/8 endmills as fast as I can crank, and mild steel at maybe .050" DOC passes. Alloy steels like 4140 though, the mill pretty much has to nibble at. Where the stiffness issues will get you is high DOC cuts, even at super low tool engagement and low feed rates, like knocking down the sides of a part. Listen to your mill and feel what the vibration in the handwheels is telling you, and it should do fine.
LMS does sell conversion kits such as a belt drive kit or 20 TPI leadscrews, if you don't care to make them yourself.
Good advice! I’ll keep that in mind when I need to work with any of the tougher alloys out there
Very nice video! It got my sub! Looking forward to more impressive information.
Thank you! I think I have some pretty cool stuff planned so stay tuned!
These are quite capable little machines that have enabled a lot of home hobby machinists to have the facility of a mill and lathe at very affordable prices. There would be a lot less people able to afford to enjoy the modelling/machining hobby if it weren't for these cheap import machines being available.
Also worthy of mention is the point that great improvement in function and accuracy can be had with a bit of fettling and fine tuning of these cheap,basic machines.
Heck yeah, i wanna see the belt drive upgrade!!
I would argue that the only limitation is the size of parts you can mill, especially as we well know it's the type of cutter that you use which allows you to cut steel.
Great video......I have the Craftex CX 612 mill and it does all that I want .
I am use to a 3 hp Tree mill, and a 7.5 hp lathe. R & D, is fine with the smaller versions. But taking a half inch cut, on the lathe, and hearing the motor begging for mercy, is SOP. But you will never expect that, out of them. And the bigger and heavier the machine, less vibration, and deflection.
Nice! Great video. I have always wondered if I should purchase an affordeable mill for my use. Now I Know.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed!
Great video. I have been thinking about getting a minimill.
Having a piece of steel plate under the mill to give you a place for mag base indicators helps a lot. Ditto the LMS belt drive kit.
I've been doing machining for around 5 years professionally, I've worked with vintage Cincinnatis, Bridgeports, VTLs, Gap lathes ,average lathes and mini lathes and many more i can't think of. I just recently picked up the harbor freight mini mill recently for the house, was disappointed at first but i realized the chuck was .017 thou out. After watching this and getting a new chuck it's not so bad.
I made T slot nuts from big bolt heads. Cut the head to fit the slots, drilled and tapped the centers.
I bolted mine to an old cast iron surface plate “14 x 14”, and replaced the motor & gears with an ebay digital sewing machine motor with speed control and reversing, transforming the mill, I have used it hard for 6 years and counting. Invaluable tool now.
If you decide on a belt drive upgrade, then the gear drive is expendable anyway; would it make sense to apply some lapping compound to see if the gears can be run in a bit?
On those machines, if the tilting head is that much of an issue, since 0 degrees would be the must used position, couldn't one set a good 0 (and or other useful angles) and then drill an indexing hole for a removable pin ?
I mean if you need 31 odd degrees or something, sure you will have to make sure it is not shifting during by taking lighter passes, but otherwise it some indexing holes sounds like a good solution to still have the potential of the tilting head and the piece of mind for regular jobs. It would also make make resetting the head easier after the occasional odd job, so less reason to procrastinate doing it.
Am I missing something that would make it impractical, appart from the difficulty of drilling the hole in the first place ?
The great thing about these machines is that you can improve them by making new components with these machines.
This is a great video, thanks!
Nice vid. Could you check the tram reliability with a small fly-cutter
Is the awkward gradation due to the machine having metric screws but a inch markings on the hand wheel?
Useful video, thanks.
Sixty-two and a half thou seems really weird until you realise that means a lead screw of 16 threads per inch. (Served a machine shop apprenticeship in the UK in the '70s where we had to deal with metric, imperial and imperial fractions in equal measures.)
Ah yes the mixing of units is always fun. I’m guilty of designing in metric, but machining in imperial. It’s all fun and games until I need to drill a hole for a metric fastener with my imperial drills haha
I wonder if sending the noisy gears out to a company that tumble polishes gears would be beneficial to lowering the noise. I know that differential ring and pinions, transmission gears and timing gears are polished with great reductions in friction and noise. Might be worth your time and mental sanity to have done. Let us know if you do it and if you have access to a decibel meter, take before and after readings. Thanks.
Princess Auto had a Boxing Week door crasher sale on this mill and its lathe brother in 2010 for $400 each. I couldn't pass them up. Yes, they're tiny and you get what you pay for. I haven't bothered refining them, but they've been really handy over the years.
Nice video👍. I have a Myford ML 7, which I love. It's much too good for my skills but who cares. I've been thinking of a mini mill for those odd times I need it. I figured that as long as I set it up properly, it would be ok for my ability and need level. Having seen your review and set up, I'm now convinced. 👍
I have a Sieg X2 type (from princess auto) and it works pretty good. It can cut steel fine with carbide cutters. I have a 4" 5 insert facing mill that I've used to flatten steel with before. Best upgrade so far was to machine the spindle to accept ER32 collets directly. I also filled the column with expanding concrete, it seemed to like that but maybe filling with lead or something would have been better? I made my own belt drive also, but pick a better belt than a 2L130 they seem to be impossible to buy in Canada.
The column stays in tram just fine when it's filled with concrete, you can clamp it down tight and it stays that way.
I had a Taig micro lathe in the past, then got a Myford 7" lathe. Finally ended up with a south bend 10k with QC gearbox.
Extremely cool! Interesting to hear the 4” facing mill doesn’t cause issues, I would have thought that it would be too much! I may just have to pick one up. Thanks for the tip!
What's that auger-like tool you use at 6:58? Would love to get one and hopefully they have smaller sizes - I use 3d-printed steel parts sometimes and the holes on those usually come out funky.
That was actually just a standard m6 tap! But likely a similar setup with a hand reamer + a tap wrench would work for you
I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on with that benchtop mill. My 1962 Bridgeport cost me rather less than a decent mini-mill, BUT... I have a large brick-built workshop separate from the house. The noise and cutting fluids, 3 phase power and just the SIZE of the thing makes a big old cast-iron beast like a BP a *terrible* choice for someone based in a spare room or garage. It's all about picking the right tools, and understanding chiploads and feeds and speeds, always considering the effects of backlash and fixing the simple inherent manufacturing defects. I just bought a new CNC mill that weighs 2.5 times as much as the Bridgeport and makes the old BP look tiny, but it's only buying me speed, repeatability and the ability to cut complex compound curves. Most of the parts I make could be machined on a mini-mill and lathe with enough preparation and care and correct tool choices. Maybe not the Titanium parts, and getting a mirror finish on 4140 makes even my 3HP lathe break into a sweat, but hey....
I’ve got a Proxxon machine that’s literally as big as my forearm and I machine steel and stainless steel on it no problem. It’s very accurate but you do have to put up with taking small cuts only 3MM wide on its largest End Mill. It is a toolers milling machine though so I didn’t have high expectations. I got it to machine wood scales for knives so they are nice and flat when I bolt and glue them to a knife handle. It’s still very handy and I’ve made all sorts with it.
A hint on plunge or side milling on mini machines... Avoid adjusting for your next cutting pass while the machine is running. One can cut too deep jamming the machine. What I do is to turn the machine off and then pull on my Quill handle until the end mill contacts the surface. Then while I have a little pressure on the Quill handle I lock the Quill and turn on the machine. The end mill will cut in maybe 2 to 4 thousands and I then finish that pass. This eliminates doubts regarding backlash and I never have jammed the machine doing this. I use the same method side milling. Once the end mill contacts the surface and you feel a little pressure you know all backlash is gone. Just learn the appropriate amount of pressure. When first learning this method start with very light pressure and work your way up to where it works best for you and then lock that into muscle memory.
I'm interested in the improvement you've got in mind for increasing the stability. Maintaining settings while running machines can be a pain.
@someone should make that
What Mill did you get? The only one I've been able to find so far to fit my needs has been a Proxxon but I'd like to have other options.
I wanna see ALLLLL the upgrade and tweaks and fun stuff for mini mill! Ill never afford one. So I can at least live through you doing it! lol
I have the HF mini-mill with the belt drive plus ball screws for all 3 axis set up for cnc i made some knobs so i can use it manually because i did all that and still haven't hooked it up to a computer yet but when I first got it the backlash was horrible kept breaking my bits and cheap bits don't have a chance get carbide it will make life easier 1/2" bit 1/4" cut's on mild metal you can tell it's struggling but it's a tuff little machine
I clicked on the video, just for the channel name. Love it!