I was 9 years old when watched my Grandfather was moving a new, and very hefty, milling machine into his shop. I learned many new words that day. Of course, I was not much help at that time. Especially when I asked him why he didn't take the machine apart and move it in pieces. His kind and wisdom laden response: "It would likely be easy enough to take apart.. but... not as easy to put back together. Overall, just easier to move it in one piece believe it or not." Looking at what was presented here, I can see why he grunted that thing into the shop in one go. I look forward to an entire series of TOT videos on the re-assembly of this masterpiece of German engineering. :-)
i moved a radial arm saw into my basement ,, got it from the father inlaw .. about 15 years ago had too take it all apart to get it down the steps ,, got it back together runs great ,,,, now buying a newer home no basement but have buildings ,, so i have too do it again ,,, ugh might cut a hole in the floor and lift it out of the basement ,,, lol
I can't hear the name "Maho" any more without a rendition of Maho maho man playing in my head... If you are not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I assure you it is.
A huge advantage of keeping the trapezoidal thread on your Z-axis you may or may not have considered is the passive holding force provided by friction. I worked at a company that had a few very large, very old CNC machines that used ball screws on their Z-axis but didn't have any form of power off breaking. If the table was not parked at the bottom of its travel and the power was shut off the z-axis would come crashing down with enough force to damage or even destroy the machine! The last thing you need is 200+lbs slamming to the floor without warning!
Very good point, nice safty warning for all. I think as Tony said, the trap thread should be fine as held buy gravity always in one direction, no back lash until bevel gears wear
@@russcole5685 I agree, the main disadvantage with trap threads excluding backlash (managed by gravity in this case, like you say) is max speed. That said, I personally have never had the need to move a tool very quickly in the z axis. I wonder if Tony intends on adding a spindle encoder. Maybe a ball screw would be better suited to rigid tapping? Otherwise I don't see any reason to mess with what currently works.
@@bullzebub eventually the company had breaks retrofitted onto the older machines. Unfortunately you can't just use regular hydraulic breaks because they require constant hydraulic power to maintain their grip. It ended up being quite an expensive overhaul because they needed specialized breaks that could activate automatically as soon as electrical or hydraulic power was lost. They also had to activate almost instantly to prevent the head from plunging a tool through the table if the power failed during a cut.
When you were explaining the machine base and x-axis I was thinking "man, I can never tell if the parts are really there or just edited in, must be the lighting" then you reached down and moved the entire x-axis. Part of my brain broke deep inside
Hi Tony, Long time watcher, short time commenter. What you've produced are some of the most informative, entertaining, and humorous videos out there on UA-cam. Speaking on behalf of some of the "hobby machinists" in my local community, we would like to thank you for the scope and detail of your videos, and the ever-present insights across several different, well-developed skill sets, (machining, welding, etc.), that I see are often missing from today's up and coming tradesmen. Your videos have inspired me to spend a small chunk of my retirement on a benchtop lathe and mill. (TIG welder is next!) After spending several weeks learning my machines, struggling with the math, and butchering several pieces of stock, I finally started turning out some good projects. Then all of the sudden, all my retired buddies have hit me up for custom motorcycle parts, broken exhaust stud removals, gun sight mounts, etc. etc., and suddenly, it appears that I now have a great part-time, post-retirement job that I love! Mahalo for all the great videos! Sincerely, Bruce P.S. Please thank your wife and kids too for supporting you in everything that you do as a husband and father.
I got let go from my work about the start of lockdown in the UK and It's been a rough time... Seeing a new TOT vid has honestly put a huge smile on my face. It's a real treat to watch this and have my coffee on a Sunday. I don't often remember to like videos, but I really like what you do and I've watched all of them multiple times, they're always very funny and I always learn something. Thanks for making them man, super excited already to see the conversion.
@el Guapo Where I work, we've been setting new sales records. Some people have opted out and left the rest of us holding the bag. Six day work weeks and overtime are not unusual. We're hiring new people now, so things are looking up. The people that have left won't be missed but they will be talked about.
Seeing as how you drink coffee, come on over to the USA. We offer the best coffee, incomprehensible riots, life-threatening civil unrest, and loads of job opportunities. See you soon!
Use a counterweight or a air shock at the z-axis instead of relying on the ballscrew holding all of the weight. It will also prevent the head crashing down in case of a power outage.
A power outage won't do anything but stop the thing. The knee is moving, not the head; if it failed, it would go downward in any case. But counter-balancing would be easy enough, if you had a larger reservoir to avoid pressure changes.
Tony, might I recommend saving your back the heavy lifting and building a nice jib crane or even a rafter-mounted gantry crane, complete with chain hoist? Might make an interesting video (wink wink). Either way, thanks for the consistently great content to help us through the apocalypse and cheers from a fellow trials AND machining enthusiast (There’s dozens of us!)!
right, I did not buy the part about the part that broke his scissor lift which he claimed was 100 lbs, then with the motor 200. his bike weighs about 200...
@@rob12449 i’m assuming a lot of rapid up and down along with the occasional “oops its in forward not reverse” could have cracked it plus it could have broken with his bike eventually
I'm super excited to follow this build! I am the lucky owner of an old maho myself, witch I plan to convert to CNC. Thanks for a great channel, love your videos.
I've seen people who can match your prodution value. I've seen people who can match your engineering skill. But to my knowledge there isn't a single person on the planet who can produce a video that gets close to yours for entertainment and learning in one package. Bravo Sir, bravo! :Edit spelling
I've always heard. A milling machine can build a copy of it self. I kind of wish someone would do that in a video. Just clone their machine. Those big castings might give you some trouble.
@Allan Moore You're gonna hate me, then. I've managed to gather up enough parts and pieces over the last 3-4 years, that I only need to buy a T-slot table, and some misc, minor stuff, and I'll have enough to build a mill, with precision shafts, and linear bearings instead of ways, and recirculating ball lead screws. Including the ER32 collet chuck I'm integrating into an old mill head as the spindle, I only have about $75.00 invested, so far. Just to rub it in, :) , the mill will also have a secondary spindle, it's position fully adjustable in three axi, for sharpening, reconditioning and making tooling. There will be a low speed version (~5 RPM), for creating helix grinds, AND a high speed version, (33,000 RPM). I MIGHT have $500.00 in it, total, by the time I'm done. GeoD
Hey I'm robotics PHD and: I think there is no real reason to change this thread unless it gets heavy wear after some time. Even then I'd rather make perfect copy than try ball screw. 1st of all ball screw have higher steps. You would get probably like 3 or 4 times higher speed off the same rotational speed, and thus need better gears. 2. If the milling machine never jumped while milling it means the weight on Z axis is always enough for the work. 3rd and most important, this screw not only powers the movement but it also supports all the weight and reducing the size of the core is a bad idea for sake of safety and tolerances. If u need help with CNC feel free to contact me. I've done some conversions in my life, not etherCAT tho. Love ya!
@Mad Robot I just told Tony about a zero-backlash nut & screw I have. I bought a bunch of stuff from an engineer retiring due to health issues, and this was in a box of misc. I have seen some anti/no-backlash nuts, but nothing designed like this one. The shaft is ~22 mm and is trapezoidal thread. The nut is some exotic looking metal harder then heck. I described it as looking like it is machined and anodized steel, (I don't think that's possible.) The engineer did high end design and prototype work for the high tech industry here in Oregon. All of the components I got from him were high quality, (expensive) stuff. Lots of brand name stuff, so I have no doubt this lead screw & nut I got are quality. It has the look of quality. The nut has one half with internal threads, which telescopes inside the other half. The 'inner' nut has longitudunal slits, so its threads will tighten on the shaft. The 'outer' nut has a spring wrapped around its mid-portion which squeezes down on the inner nut. (not sure what type of spring that would be. It's not a compression or expansion type spring. wrapped spring?) The anti-backlash nuts I've seen use a expansion type spring to push two internally threaded 'half' nuts, apart, to eliminate the backlash. This ring any bells for you? I doubt he'd find one to match the thread of his shaft, so it would be new shaft and nut, or make one like it. The compression sping type wouldn't work on the vertical screw. If you don't recognize it, perhaps you could point me to somewhere I could look at some, I might find it. Terminology, specifically the correct name, is the biggest challenge I run into when I'm trying to ID/source unfamiliar components. If there is a correct name for them, just that would be a big help. GeoD
I disagree with #2 only because this machine used hydraulic brakes to keep the other axes (axises? axees?) from moving. In other words, the weight of the head plus the hydraulic brake was enough to keep the head from jumping during a cut. IF TOT is trying for a full 3 axis machine, and if he is perhaps wanting to heavy rough steel, the weight might not be enough. At least, I wouldn't risk committing to a build based on the hope that the weight is enough. Chances are he will have to settle for 2.5 axis and leaving the fixed nut and hydraulic brake.
Consider that this machine could not do 3d profiling. If you are ramping up or down on a counter the loads are much different and the cutter could bounce on the Z axis backlash.
Also, the leadscrew with a tighter pitch will require about the same torque as a ballscrew with a courser pitch because there is far more friction in a leadscrew.
I'm an apprentice machinist, and the mill i work on also only has a single-motor powerfeed, and sadly, only on the X axis. I honestly still love working with it because its so interesting to try out different spindle speeds and powerfeed speeds, love it! Your videos, even tho we use different measurement systems, are some of the most interesting I've ever seen! Love and prayers to the machinist gods from germany.
Dear Tony: It has been one month since your last video. I realize that it might have been short-sided of me to limit my doomsday bunker's access to the outside world to only one UA-cam channel, but you never can be TOO careful, and I figured your videos might help me re-build civilization if push came to shove... That said, I can only assume that after one month of radio silence, the end of the world has indeed come and concequently, I am the last person on earth. This is OK since I have about 2 decades worth of canned beans down here, and am still trying to beat my high score of bouncy ball on a paddle (12 bounces!) The time has come for me to shut off my computer - I hope that in 10 years when I climb out of this bunker, that I will use the lessons I have learned from your videos to make your memory proud. Godspeed, Tony. You truly were the best of Humanity.
A local scraping expert (Of whom I am an occasional student in the art of machine tool restoration) told me the short sides of machine tool slideways usually wear from the outside in in this way. If I had to guess why I'd say it's because the slides need some amount of running clearance in order to move, so whenever the longer sliding bit (e.g. the head itself) has its center of mass overhanging the end of the short slide it is sliding only on one end of the dovetail top and the opposite end of the inside of the dovetail. move it back and forth a whole heap and you get that wear pattern. Anyway, the correct way to scrape these things in is to get everything flat and parallel, then relieve the middle 1/3 of the short half. That way you won't end up with the whole arrangement doing a sterling impression of grandma in a rocking chair while you're trying to get chatter free cutting...
I was really starting to wonder... "now how is he going to disassemble that sciss... oh." I thought for a minute that I had somehow missed some part of the scissor lift video where you demonstrate some clever way to make it serviceable. By the way, I really enjoyed watching you build that lift, except for the anxiety I was experiencing as you welded it more and more past the point of any semblance of being able to pull it apart without cutting tools.
I absolutely love your content, Tony! Just wanted to make sure you know I appreciate it... I know my last comment might not have communicated that. Keep it up, please!
If you show too much of the disassembled MAHO, a certain Australian dude might build one from scratch just from the footage you posted, so better be careful
I loved the intro: wow your kids did some job on the lines / veins... so that "100 lbs" (200 with motor) part broke your scissor lift... and you are deciding to change it from one motor to multiple, you are a mad man!
Sharp eyes, man, very sharp eyes. Totally missed that one. Usually when I read through the comments I learn nothing new, but you nailed this one. And so did Tony - very subtle, very well played, sir Tony! :-)
Regarding the unexpected wear pattern you mentioned at 6:30, Stefan Gotteswinter has a very interesting video about that, but I am currently not able to find it (I may add it here once I do). Generally, the longer piece of a dovetail slide will wear to become concave as the middle part is in contact with the other piece more often and the short piece just wears convex to match that. Since you are looking at the shorter piece of the slide, a concave wear pattern is expected. Because of this, dovetail slides may be scraped to oppose this pattern slightly (short piece concave, long piece convex), so that the wear improves the fit before it gets worse.
I watched this yesterday, and have memory issues, but my reaction when he was confused by the wear was that it made sense. If I recall correctly, he was talking about wear at each end being more than in the middle, right? For something moving both directions and extending beyond the fixed ways, I would expect that to be the normal wear pattern due to the increased leverage as the moving table extends beyond the fixed ways. It might be a very small increase in force due to the overhang, but with thousands of reps, and progressive wear allowing more 'hang', it would gradually get worse. I was going to watch it again, then forgot about it, when I got sidetracked on the keep or replace the vertical lead screw. I ended up commenting about that, and forgot about the way wear. From watching him work on the trials bike and a few other things, I get the impression Tony doesn't have a lot of experience troubleshooting or seeing worn/broken stuff. Not a knock on him, he's actually been lucky he has had to repair things for a living! I have for most of my 66 years.
That, Ostensibly, Terrorized most viewers, no doubt!!! All the offal from former body parts sticking to everything in sight. AAGGgGGGG! Wincing and cringing as gears meshed and bearings ground against lips and chips from chattering tools in the machines deep dark past. Great job!!! Loved every second.
Another ToT classic with his jokes and visual surprises. You mande me laughing anough for more than a week. I wish you all the best with this conversion. It will be worth it.
I feel very strongly that you should over-engineer the heck out of the z-axis. I also feel very strongly that your videos are addictive and we need more!
You're talking ball screw. He doesnt want to spend that much. Maybe he can find a take off from some other piece of equipment. Maybe a second z-drive in tandem with the existing one that has a travel of a quarter inch or so...a "differential screw". Can be highly precise to make up for slop when the main screw stops turning.
Also I really would enjoy more videos on this conversion I find it really interesting even if It is still in tear down phase even if you don’t spend all the time doing your wonderful editing as you normally do! A “B roll” channel maybe? Just like a hang out time with old Tony in the shop!
19:03 When I saw the three taps on the Z axis I got so excited that he was about to spell "SUBSCRIBE" in Morse code, but alas it's "SNNNNGT" or "OAAAAUE" or something in between.
Hi, Back in the 1970's we called the pattern on the ways "frosting" which was done manually using a hand held scraper and the maroon gunk you thought was a previous DIY botch job was called "Stag paste" which was a liquid gasket oil seal probably used during the original manufacturing process.
Modern updating is understandable, but the mechanical process of the stock machine is incredible. You get a major brain ache from trying to understand how it works on all three axises from a single motor. There is a certain machine beauty about the whole thing. Amazing.
By watching this video, I learned that I can train one eye on you showing how the drive train goes together and the other eye on looking at the diagram down in the corner. 😁
I will be watching for installments of this transformation like nothing else! Like all your videos, excellent! A pleasure to watch and enjoy! Stay well and be safe.
I once went on holidays for a month, when I came back I'd sprouted a whole patch of milling machines, you have to water them with soluble oil though and keep them out of direct sunlight.
Very interesting. That was a clever and concise lecture on how the power is transmitted from the single motor to the three axes. And I adore electromagnetic clutches. So I was in my element.
of all the things you spoke about, the only thing i know is: thats a thinking log, stumps are still in the ground. Anyway, totally enjoying the channel, my wife keeps asking me what im doing watching the videos and i just say learning something new. nothing better than learning.
The most casual machinist you can be while still remaining on the spectrum here. I may also be on the other spectrum :P love your channel. Learning so much about... everything you cover lol
Please include either a short video or just part of a video dedicated to cleaning... Working in a sheet metal production shop, I use a lot of oil on progressive stamping tools. One of my favorite parts is after I pull the tool out of the press, I clean all the oil and any metal shavings, scraps, or just junk off the surface of the press. I usually clean the tool as well which seems like something nobody ever did before I showed up. It's strangely soothing.
That old time German mechanical porn was interesting...Yes, keep the big screw on the Z Axis, gravity is your friend, it may need an automated oiler to keep it lubed...Can't wait to see this thing rebuilt and how...🤔🤔
I understand 3-4% of the info in these videos, have ABSOLUTELY no use for any of it's content besides the creative editing and hilarity), but this one was very informative... and entertaining. Well done sir!😁
As someone who just built a heavy duty 3d Printer, I can tell you you'll probably want a ballscrew on the z. Even with a 6 to 1 advantage to the motor, everytime the power was turned off the table dropped like a pair of cement shoes in the hudson. Replaced the trapezoidal with a ballscrew and she's solid as rock.
I’m glad you are interested in my feelings man. Up to now I thought you didn’t really care. I’ve been feeling a little sad with this whole stay at home thing “but” your video has really helped!
It was done on purpose from the factory. It takes all the backlash out of the gears without causing them to bind...much. That's why all machining tools and parts made in China are full of metal flakes, chips, and sand mixed in with the grease. That MUST be the reason! Right!? RIGHT!?
0:16 in, and already, I'm thinking, "Ooh, fantastic 'film noir' action going on! Has ToT grown as a videogropher?" Then 0:45 occurs, and I realize, no. Never mind.
My dad always said - things are never built to last these days ! I still use some of his tools he got when he was an apprentice !! Things I buy now - I'm happy if it lasts to go back in it's case after using them..
What has always intrigued me or more accurately impressed me about these old machines, is the fact that someone sat down with a drawing table and pencil and designed all those components. No computers, no rapid prototyping. Draw it build it and if it don't work...literally back to the drawing board. And after all that, the things ran forever, and you could repair them yourself.
Same here. It’ll be the best 40+ year old machine out there. Do you think he would tackle the worn gears on my old radial drill when he’s finished the Maho.
I would vote for keeping the original screw. Ballscrews are great for high speed and low backlash applications but might be of little benefit here. Unless you plan on doing a lot of 3D contouring, using the original screw will probably perform just fine and will allow you to use a smaller servo. Good luck with the project, I’ll be doing my own CNC conversion on an E-Beam welder here in a few months and will be interested to see what your choice of CNC control is, and how the final result comes out. EtherCAT is an awesome platform, not only for motion control but for general I/O as well, and a wide variety of stuff can be found on eBay now for dirt cheap.
A tip from a robot guy used to discussing all the different flavors of axis orientations; extend your right hand, point your fingers in the direction of the +X-axis, now curl your fingers towards the +Y axis, your thumb now points in the +Z axis. Now, if you ever run across several robot guys flashing what look to be gang-signs to each other, you'll know that they're discussing the axis orientations and transformations.
Thanks, Tony for the tomato anatomy lesson! Didn't know that they have a posterior orifice. You taught me mechanics and biology at the same time - way to multitask!
Man, I thought I was being ambitious until I saw this. I bought a manual PM932 milling machine with the idea of converting it to CNC. Been (VERY slowly) working at that for going on a couple of years now. There's a forum I'm following to guide me. But your project is really ambitious, methinks. I'll be interested in the progress.
Hahahahahahahahahah. That maho is simple; I've had my K&T apart, it has power feed/rapids in all 3 axis, 16 feeds and speeds, all mechanical. All. Mechanical. 2 clutches, everything else is engaged by gears you slam into place
I bought a 1998 haas hs1 1 year ago, I got it mostly functional, and now im getting it ready to move into my garage. The machine is 111" tall, and my garage door is 96", but its 120" tall inside. so I have to take the tool changer, and bunch of other stuff off. I had to build a bridge of sorts to hoist the tool changer off, but it had to be short enough to still fit in my garage. I took the tool changer down last night, and I guess I got lucky since it worked and I still have all the fingers I had when I started.
Tony, Tony, Tony..... If it's one thing I've learnt by watching your videos, you do things properly! You have gone down this path of performing the cnc conversion, you owe it to the machine and us! It's like your motorbike, you replaced everything but the rotor/disc and you still had issues until you change it as well, do the job properly and change it over. Clickspring would be ashamed of you even thought of taking the easy way out! :P Regards
I have to say Iove your videos and your humor. Just good writing and good wholsome wit in jokes is missing in anything mainstream. I also work at a manufacturing plant and love to see the engineering behind this mill. Nice work, keep it up.
Rule of thumb: If the product's price is only accessible via quote, you can't afford it.
"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
I think you are right. Same goes for those catalogs that don't list prices, like Starret.
Lol
If you have to ask how much it is you can't afford it.
If they can't tell me what something costs then I don't want to know.
"Luckily, I built this thing in such a way that you can't take it apart."
- perfect lol
Yeah, it removes the temptation to fix it right, thus saving a lot of time in the short term. 😆
when you build something this way: we will fix it
when someone else builds something this way: she's skooked bud
I'll get there one day... Currently I'm stuck in the "built it in such a way it won't go together" phase
Him when in 2023 it will be taken apart:
ua-cam.com/video/lCl7I7png08/v-deo.html
Lots of things can be taken apart, just some only once.
The non-professional version of EtherCAT is known as EtherKitten.
👍
😸😹😼
@@barongerhardt But spiders like the EtherWEB so don't go getting that!
Almost.
EtherKitty.
And then there is the Etherbunny.....But they always fall a sleep before they hide there eggs.
I was 9 years old when watched my Grandfather was moving a new, and very hefty, milling machine into his shop. I learned many new words that day.
Of course, I was not much help at that time. Especially when I asked him why he didn't take the machine apart and move it in pieces.
His kind and wisdom laden response:
"It would likely be easy enough to take apart.. but... not as easy to put back together. Overall, just easier to move it in one piece believe it or not."
Looking at what was presented here, I can see why he grunted that thing into the shop in one go.
I look forward to an entire series of TOT videos on the re-assembly of this masterpiece of German engineering.
:-)
Just think how mad your grandpa would be to know tony already go it inside his shop before he took it apart lol.
So was one of those words Godamndhdcmhefjd ?
i moved a radial arm saw into my basement ,, got it from the father inlaw .. about 15 years ago had too take it all apart to get it down the steps ,, got it back together runs great ,,,, now buying a newer home no basement but have buildings ,, so i have too do it again ,,, ugh might cut a hole in the floor and lift it out of the basement ,,, lol
Its awsome hey. My dad trained me as apprentice 27yrs ago
I can't hear the name "Maho" any more without a rendition of Maho maho man playing in my head...
If you are not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I assure you it is.
Remember when AvE tried to rebuild a Mazak and ended up buying a brand new Haas....?
Was it brand new? I'm not sure.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Yes, haas is new. He has video where says how dealers were ignoring him and anly haas answered mail.
@@torkalovolodymyr5097 Yep, they only wanted to do commercial.
@@JackHudler AvE finishing a project? Ha. Ooh is that a flying pig?
A huge advantage of keeping the trapezoidal thread on your Z-axis you may or may not have considered is the passive holding force provided by friction. I worked at a company that had a few very large, very old CNC machines that used ball screws on their Z-axis but didn't have any form of power off breaking. If the table was not parked at the bottom of its travel and the power was shut off the z-axis would come crashing down with enough force to damage or even destroy the machine! The last thing you need is 200+lbs slamming to the floor without warning!
Very good point, nice safty warning for all. I think as Tony said, the trap thread should be fine as held buy gravity always in one direction, no back lash until bevel gears wear
@@russcole5685 I agree, the main disadvantage with trap threads excluding backlash (managed by gravity in this case, like you say) is max speed. That said, I personally have never had the need to move a tool very quickly in the z axis.
I wonder if Tony intends on adding a spindle encoder. Maybe a ball screw would be better suited to rigid tapping? Otherwise I don't see any reason to mess with what currently works.
true. i would probably reuse the brakes just to avoid what kind of mishap.
@@bullzebub eventually the company had breaks retrofitted onto the older machines. Unfortunately you can't just use regular hydraulic breaks because they require constant hydraulic power to maintain their grip. It ended up being quite an expensive overhaul because they needed specialized breaks that could activate automatically as soon as electrical or hydraulic power was lost. They also had to activate almost instantly to prevent the head from plunging a tool through the table if the power failed during a cut.
Last thing you need... but first thing some of us want...
Leave it to TOT to solve the old show biz question “What do I do with my hands?” Just hold a tig torch.
When you were explaining the machine base and x-axis I was thinking "man, I can never tell if the parts are really there or just edited in, must be the lighting" then you reached down and moved the entire x-axis. Part of my brain broke deep inside
Just like setting up an Etch-A-Sketch. You got this Tone.
Tony's 6 foot long right arm sure did come in handy making this video.
just advanced myself to level 2 of watching thisoldtony vids: i could tell about the wooden log and oak joke 20 seconds before he actually made it...
There was a log in the video?
@@Pico2199 - Yup, right beside the base he even pointed it out and made jokes about it...did you even watch the video?
@@Pico2199 The Captain's log, yes.
That’s odd, my milling machine only cuts angles, and my lathe only cuts tapers. Super convenient.
-”That’s not a fault, it’s a feature”
Ha
my lathe can also cut mirror finish tapers. something you can't ever get with "modern" technology cnc lathes. sigh
What did You expect from an over-engineered German machine? XD
i do wood working and i know what you mean.
Someone said, “ToT and AvE are like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”, since that moment I can’t watch videos on both channels without a smile.
They are orders of magnitude different in every way! I used to watch AvE but his schtick just got old after awhile.
Hi Tony,
Long time watcher, short time commenter. What you've produced are some of the most informative, entertaining, and humorous videos out there on UA-cam. Speaking on behalf of some of the "hobby machinists" in my local community, we would like to thank you for the scope and detail of your videos, and the ever-present insights across several different, well-developed skill sets, (machining, welding, etc.), that I see are often missing from today's up and coming tradesmen. Your videos have inspired me to spend a small chunk of my retirement on a benchtop lathe and mill. (TIG welder is next!)
After spending several weeks learning my machines, struggling with the math, and butchering several pieces of stock, I finally started turning out some good projects. Then all of the sudden, all my retired buddies have hit me up for custom motorcycle parts, broken exhaust stud removals, gun sight mounts, etc. etc., and suddenly, it appears that I now have a great part-time, post-retirement job that I love! Mahalo for all the great videos!
Sincerely, Bruce
P.S. Please thank your wife and kids too for supporting you in everything that you do as a husband and father.
I got let go from my work about the start of lockdown in the UK and It's been a rough time... Seeing a new TOT vid has honestly put a huge smile on my face. It's a real treat to watch this and have my coffee on a Sunday.
I don't often remember to like videos, but I really like what you do and I've watched all of them multiple times, they're always very funny and I always learn something.
Thanks for making them man, super excited already to see the conversion.
@el Guapo Where I work, we've been setting new sales records. Some people have opted out and left the rest of us holding the bag. Six day work weeks and overtime are not unusual. We're hiring new people now, so things are looking up. The people that have left won't be missed but they will be talked about.
Seeing as how you drink coffee, come on over to the USA. We offer the best coffee, incomprehensible riots, life-threatening civil unrest, and loads of job opportunities. See you soon!
@@thatrealba sorry but you guys hav probably the worst coffee, more like warm water with a bit of color, about the rest you are probably right. :)
easy to remember to like ToT vids . . . do it before you watch.
[ you know it's going to be good ]
Use a counterweight or a air shock at the z-axis instead of relying on the ballscrew holding all of the weight. It will also prevent the head crashing down in case of a power outage.
I thought of that too, but he'd lose the "gravity is on my side" advantage in regards to Z-axis slop.
@@Bluuplanet this would't matter if he changed to ballscrews. Since there isn't this much load he could use light duty ones which fit in the frame
A power outage won't do anything but stop the thing. The knee is moving, not the head; if it failed, it would go downward in any case. But counter-balancing would be easy enough, if you had a larger reservoir to avoid pressure changes.
he could add a hydraulic piston that goes in sync with the screw for added support
What? And take away the opportunity to slip in a cliche about the up and down movements of newlyweds on a honeymoon night?
Imagine : Tony's wife findind the "But Butts" folder on the personal computer
@David Parry briliant.
It was labeled "Sir Mix A Lot video" so there weren't a lot of questions.
I personally prefer the racks myself. More classy.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@Evi1M4chine Animal porn?
Good mornign from Germany, it's 6:30am here and the entire house has woken up now because of me laughing.
Tony is known to have that effect on people.
Yeah, that is why I'm always watching TOT only in the evening
Ging mir ähnlich, dank meines wahrscheinlich ebenso verkorkstem humor 🙃
Tony, might I recommend saving your back the heavy lifting and building a nice jib crane or even a rafter-mounted gantry crane, complete with chain hoist? Might make an interesting video (wink wink). Either way, thanks for the consistently great content to help us through the apocalypse and cheers from a fellow trials AND machining enthusiast (There’s dozens of us!)!
right, I did not buy the part about the part that broke his scissor lift which he claimed was 100 lbs, then with the motor 200. his bike weighs about 200...
@@rob12449 i’m assuming a lot of rapid up and down along with the occasional “oops its in forward not reverse” could have cracked it
plus it could have broken with his bike eventually
@@skonky How many times has that been said during a honeymoon....
Still waiting for that "MAHO MAN" shirt.
Great video, This Young Tony.
It'll need to be double 'Maho' to be accurate.. ;)
"Maho" is finnish for a creature unable to bear offspring, especially a sterile cow.
@@AnttiBrax That would make the shirt even better!! :)
Heck yeah, a full length video. He had this video up before his morning stock went away.
"...candy coated in thirty years of it's own filth"
Same
I'm super excited to follow this build! I am the lucky owner of an old maho myself, witch I plan to convert to CNC. Thanks for a great channel, love your videos.
I've seen people who can match your prodution value. I've seen people who can match your engineering skill. But to my knowledge there isn't a single person on the planet who can produce a video that gets close to yours for entertainment and learning in one package. Bravo Sir, bravo! :Edit spelling
I'm just a poor old retired firefighter in desperate need of a milling machine can you send me one of your sprouts so I can grow my own?
At 16:00. This is where I was going, too. I'm interested in one of the cuttings.
Hahah
I've always heard. A milling machine can build a copy of it self. I kind of wish someone would do that in a video. Just clone their machine. Those big castings might give you some trouble.
By the looks of it he is going to discard enough bits to build another mill.
@Allan Moore
You're gonna hate me, then. I've managed to gather up enough parts and pieces over the last 3-4 years, that I only need to buy a T-slot table, and some misc, minor stuff, and I'll have enough to build a mill, with precision shafts, and linear bearings instead of ways, and recirculating ball lead screws.
Including the ER32 collet chuck I'm integrating into an old mill head as the spindle, I only have about $75.00 invested, so far.
Just to rub it in, :) , the mill will also have a secondary spindle, it's position fully adjustable in three axi, for sharpening, reconditioning and making tooling.
There will be a low speed version (~5 RPM), for creating helix grinds, AND a high speed version, (33,000 RPM).
I MIGHT have $500.00 in it, total, by the time I'm done.
GeoD
Hey I'm robotics PHD and: I think there is no real reason to change this thread unless it gets heavy wear after some time. Even then I'd rather make perfect copy than try ball screw. 1st of all ball screw have higher steps. You would get probably like 3 or 4 times higher speed off the same rotational speed, and thus need better gears. 2. If the milling machine never jumped while milling it means the weight on Z axis is always enough for the work. 3rd and most important, this screw not only powers the movement but it also supports all the weight and reducing the size of the core is a bad idea for sake of safety and tolerances.
If u need help with CNC feel free to contact me. I've done some conversions in my life, not etherCAT tho.
Love ya!
Agree entirely. Not a robotics PhD (in something else that doesn't matter here :D) -- a zero-backlash nut DIY'd in would probably be the best option.
@Mad Robot
I just told Tony about a zero-backlash nut & screw I have. I bought a bunch of stuff from an engineer retiring due to health issues, and this was in a box of misc. I have seen some anti/no-backlash nuts, but nothing designed like this one.
The shaft is ~22 mm and is trapezoidal thread. The nut is some exotic looking metal harder then heck. I described it as looking like it is machined and anodized steel, (I don't think that's possible.)
The engineer did high end design and prototype work for the high tech industry here in Oregon. All of the components I got from him were high quality, (expensive) stuff. Lots of brand name stuff, so I have no doubt this lead screw & nut I got are quality. It has the look of quality.
The nut has one half with internal threads, which telescopes inside the other half. The 'inner' nut has longitudunal slits, so its threads will tighten on the shaft. The 'outer' nut has a spring wrapped around its mid-portion which squeezes down on the inner nut. (not sure what type of spring that would be. It's not a compression or expansion type spring. wrapped spring?)
The anti-backlash nuts I've seen use a expansion type spring to push two internally threaded 'half' nuts, apart, to eliminate the backlash.
This ring any bells for you?
I doubt he'd find one to match the thread of his shaft, so it would be new shaft and nut, or make one like it. The compression sping type wouldn't work on the vertical screw.
If you don't recognize it, perhaps you could point me to somewhere I could look at some, I might find it. Terminology, specifically the correct name, is the biggest challenge I run into when I'm trying to ID/source unfamiliar components. If there is a correct name for them, just that would be a big help.
GeoD
I disagree with #2 only because this machine used hydraulic brakes to keep the other axes (axises? axees?) from moving. In other words, the weight of the head plus the hydraulic brake was enough to keep the head from jumping during a cut. IF TOT is trying for a full 3 axis machine, and if he is perhaps wanting to heavy rough steel, the weight might not be enough. At least, I wouldn't risk committing to a build based on the hope that the weight is enough.
Chances are he will have to settle for 2.5 axis and leaving the fixed nut and hydraulic brake.
Consider that this machine could not do 3d profiling. If you are ramping up or down on a counter the loads are much different and the cutter could bounce on the Z axis backlash.
Also, the leadscrew with a tighter pitch will require about the same torque as a ballscrew with a courser pitch because there is far more friction in a leadscrew.
I'm an apprentice machinist, and the mill i work on also only has a single-motor powerfeed, and sadly, only on the X axis. I honestly still love working with it because its so interesting to try out different spindle speeds and powerfeed speeds, love it! Your videos, even tho we use different measurement systems, are some of the most interesting I've ever seen! Love and prayers to the machinist gods from germany.
Dear Tony: It has been one month since your last video. I realize that it might have been short-sided of me to limit my doomsday bunker's access to the outside world to only one UA-cam channel, but you never can be TOO careful, and I figured your videos might help me re-build civilization if push came to shove... That said, I can only assume that after one month of radio silence, the end of the world has indeed come and concequently, I am the last person on earth. This is OK since I have about 2 decades worth of canned beans down here, and am still trying to beat my high score of bouncy ball on a paddle (12 bounces!)
The time has come for me to shut off my computer - I hope that in 10 years when I climb out of this bunker, that I will use the lessons I have learned from your videos to make your memory proud. Godspeed, Tony. You truly were the best of Humanity.
I hope he's alright. Been wondering about the silence.........
The engineering, mathmatics, machining of these things still boggles my mind. Brilliant stuff.
A local scraping expert (Of whom I am an occasional student in the art of machine tool restoration) told me the short sides of machine tool slideways usually wear from the outside in in this way. If I had to guess why I'd say it's because the slides need some amount of running clearance in order to move, so whenever the longer sliding bit (e.g. the head itself) has its center of mass overhanging the end of the short slide it is sliding only on one end of the dovetail top and the opposite end of the inside of the dovetail. move it back and forth a whole heap and you get that wear pattern.
Anyway, the correct way to scrape these things in is to get everything flat and parallel, then relieve the middle 1/3 of the short half. That way you won't end up with the whole arrangement doing a sterling impression of grandma in a rocking chair while you're trying to get chatter free cutting...
This sounds a lot like how they grind precision lenses. The back and forth wearing gives you a curved surface.
I was really starting to wonder... "now how is he going to disassemble that sciss... oh." I thought for a minute that I had somehow missed some part of the scissor lift video where you demonstrate some clever way to make it serviceable. By the way, I really enjoyed watching you build that lift, except for the anxiety I was experiencing as you welded it more and more past the point of any semblance of being able to pull it apart without cutting tools.
I absolutely love your content, Tony! Just wanted to make sure you know I appreciate it... I know my last comment might not have communicated that. Keep it up, please!
I know zero about milling, machining, etc, but I find your video very entertaining! Thank you!
I think ToT has left "subscribe" out on purpose so we can all rewatch it to find it and clock up more views.
Godbless you Tony :-)
Is it the tapping he does on the coils?
Ah, the global productivity drop as Tony lays out a Morse code trap.
when ?
If you show too much of the disassembled MAHO, a certain Australian dude might build one from scratch just from the footage you posted, so better be careful
Nothing sprang to mind at first, but then it clicked.
@@mattgies you did not just do that
@@mattgies Here, have my like LOL
No worries, mate, he'll get 6 videos in and disappear forever.
No. It's not made of brass.
I loved the intro: wow your kids did some job on the lines / veins... so that "100 lbs" (200 with motor) part broke your scissor lift... and you are deciding to change it from one motor to multiple, you are a mad man!
23:37 in the bottom left hole in the table. Is this a kittykat ? :3
I think it was the EtherCAT Tony was talking about
Sharp eyes, man, very sharp eyes. Totally missed that one. Usually when I read through the comments I learn nothing new, but you nailed this one. And so did Tony - very subtle, very well played, sir Tony! :-)
I spotted that movement and was waiting for a young finger with subscribe written on it to poke up through the hole.
How the heck did you see that. I had to rewatch 4 times to find it.
its definitely not a kit kat, like i first read!
Regarding the unexpected wear pattern you mentioned at 6:30, Stefan Gotteswinter has a very interesting video about that, but I am currently not able to find it (I may add it here once I do).
Generally, the longer piece of a dovetail slide will wear to become concave as the middle part is in contact with the other piece more often and the short piece just wears convex to match that.
Since you are looking at the shorter piece of the slide, a concave wear pattern is expected.
Because of this, dovetail slides may be scraped to oppose this pattern slightly (short piece concave, long piece convex), so that the wear improves the fit before it gets worse.
I watched this yesterday, and have memory issues, but my reaction when he was confused by the wear was that it made sense.
If I recall correctly, he was talking about wear at each end being more than in the middle, right?
For something moving both directions and extending beyond the fixed ways, I would expect that to be the normal wear pattern due to the increased leverage as the moving table extends beyond the fixed ways.
It might be a very small increase in force due to the overhang, but with thousands of reps, and progressive wear allowing more 'hang', it would gradually get worse.
I was going to watch it again, then forgot about it, when I got sidetracked on the keep or replace the vertical lead screw. I ended up commenting about that, and forgot about the way wear.
From watching him work on the trials bike and a few other things, I get the impression Tony doesn't have a lot of experience troubleshooting or seeing worn/broken stuff. Not a knock on him, he's actually been lucky he has had to repair things for a living! I have for most of my 66 years.
You and I sir are alot alike. Always troubleshooting and fixing. I enjoy your content, thanks for the informative videos.
That, Ostensibly, Terrorized most viewers, no doubt!!! All the offal from former body parts sticking to everything in sight. AAGGgGGGG! Wincing and cringing as gears meshed and bearings ground against lips and chips from chattering tools in the machines deep dark past.
Great job!!! Loved every second.
How could I be so lucky to wake up and see this. Thank you ToT.
I use maple for my thinking stump, I found that a large diameter works best for balance and comfort.
Thank you for sharing
hope to see you soon!
Another ToT classic with his jokes and visual surprises. You mande me laughing anough for more than a week.
I wish you all the best with this conversion. It will be worth it.
That was a video that was very easy to follow. You have a unique gift Tony! Excellent content as always
I feel very strongly that you should over-engineer the heck out of the z-axis.
I also feel very strongly that your videos are addictive and we need more!
You're talking ball screw. He doesnt want to spend that much. Maybe he can find a take off from some other piece of equipment.
Maybe a second z-drive in tandem with the existing one that has a travel of a quarter inch or so...a "differential screw". Can be highly precise to make up for slop when the main screw stops turning.
Also I really would enjoy more videos on this conversion I find it really interesting even if It is still in tear down phase even if you don’t spend all the time doing your wonderful editing as you normally do! A “B roll” channel maybe? Just like a hang out time with old Tony in the shop!
19:03 When I saw the three taps on the Z axis I got so excited that he was about to spell "SUBSCRIBE" in Morse code, but alas it's "SNNNNGT" or "OAAAAUE" or something in between.
Hi, Back in the 1970's we called the pattern on the ways "frosting" which was done manually using a hand held scraper and the maroon gunk you thought was a previous DIY botch job was called "Stag paste" which was a liquid gasket oil seal probably used during the original manufacturing process.
And just like that I'll be finding myself singing "Maho Maho man" for the next 2 months. Again. Thanks, I guess!
Yep. This just happened to me.
Modern updating is understandable, but the mechanical process of the stock machine is incredible.
You get a major brain ache from trying to understand how it works on all three axises from a single motor. There is a certain machine beauty about the whole thing. Amazing.
I don't get why you aren't at 1M yet, knowledge, editing and humor are ON POINT! Keep up your amazing work T. 👌
By watching this video, I learned that I can train one eye on you showing how the drive train goes together and the other eye on looking at the diagram down in the corner. 😁
Glad I’m not alone.
me: hm its 4am, i should probably sleep
tot: *uploads new video about cnc conversion*
me: damn you, this old tony. let me sleep!
in europe we have 14:00 :)
My thoughts exactly - not sleeping so much - "butt" was working ;-)
Ok
Ball Nuts.
There, I said it.
Someone had to.
I will be watching for installments of this transformation like nothing else! Like all your videos, excellent! A pleasure to watch and enjoy! Stay well and be safe.
"CNC likes to go up and down like newlyweds on their honeymoon. Now that's a lot of wear and tear!"
Fuckin great line Tony xD
I once went on holidays for a month, when I came back I'd sprouted a whole patch of milling machines, you have to water them with soluble oil though and keep them out of direct sunlight.
They also need a sufficient amount of cursing and spilled coffee to grow properly too, if not they may turn out to be shitty 3d printers
My mom used to flush them down the toilet back in the day. Luckily we're more civilized these days.
@@tithund They're a bastard to prune.
You didn't feed them after midnight, did you?
I'd be very interested to see your image search history, butt at the same time I think I'd rather not.
Very interesting. That was a clever and concise lecture on how the power is transmitted from the single motor to the three axes. And I adore electromagnetic clutches. So I was in my element.
I know next to nothing about anything on this channel, but I still enjoy watching all the same.
i knew that was no spark plug !!!!!!!!!! every one knows ther Diesel no spark needed tony :P
It's so obvious in retrospect.
of all the things you spoke about, the only thing i know is: thats a thinking log, stumps are still in the ground. Anyway, totally enjoying the channel, my wife keeps asking me what im doing watching the videos and i just say learning something new. nothing better than learning.
Hydraulic Brakes
The wife when you need a new expensive item .
The most casual machinist you can be while still remaining on the spectrum here. I may also be on the other spectrum :P love your channel. Learning so much about... everything you cover lol
Please include either a short video or just part of a video dedicated to cleaning... Working in a sheet metal production shop, I use a lot of oil on progressive stamping tools. One of my favorite parts is after I pull the tool out of the press, I clean all the oil and any metal shavings, scraps, or just junk off the surface of the press. I usually clean the tool as well which seems like something nobody ever did before I showed up. It's strangely soothing.
This old Tony, i know you really wanted to put "inside maho" rather than "maho inside"
Tot please tell me that you purposely missed out on the opportunity because i don't believe you didn't think of it
@@f4ctual4225
5
Isn't it a play on Intel inside?
That old time German mechanical porn was interesting...Yes, keep the big screw on the Z Axis, gravity is your friend, it may need an automated oiler to keep it lubed...Can't wait to see this thing rebuilt and how...🤔🤔
I understand 3-4% of the info in these videos, have ABSOLUTELY no use for any of it's content besides the creative editing and hilarity), but this one was very informative... and entertaining.
Well done sir!😁
As someone who just built a heavy duty 3d Printer, I can tell you you'll probably want a ballscrew on the z. Even with a 6 to 1 advantage to the motor, everytime the power was turned off the table dropped like a pair of cement shoes in the hudson. Replaced the trapezoidal with a ballscrew and she's solid as rock.
7:20 I think it used to be a NC machine and you're trying to make it CNC. Just my two cents on terminology.
Dear God by looking at those tennis shoes make me feel that I’m on the 60s 😂
The only UA-cam related T-shirt I would wear.
Same here!
Amazing ingenuity...both of your mills are enviable to own!
I’m glad you are interested in my feelings man. Up to now I thought you didn’t really care.
I’ve been feeling a little sad with this whole stay at home thing “but” your video has really helped!
I’m so relieved that you finally made a video. This pandemic has been awful with virtually no videos from Tony.
I always miss you Tony, great to see another great video! You always make my day!
dear god ... please clean those chips out of the gears!!
They're now perfect meshing gears. Those chips are a feature not a flaw
Kinda triggered me, too.
It was done on purpose from the factory. It takes all the backlash out of the gears without causing them to bind...much. That's why all machining tools and parts made in China are full of metal flakes, chips, and sand mixed in with the grease. That MUST be the reason! Right!? RIGHT!?
the chips hold oil. Otherwise it would all run off the ground and polished surfaces
0:16 in, and already, I'm thinking, "Ooh, fantastic 'film noir' action going on! Has ToT grown as a videogropher?" Then 0:45 occurs, and I realize, no. Never mind.
Have you seen Step Stool - The Makening? ua-cam.com/video/84PCB3QE8mY/v-deo.html
That jump-scare at 10:40 made me jump harder than I care to admit.
Glad I'm not the only one lol
the flaking as you call it is really called scraping. its for the oil to sit in. thanks to furze i have discovered a great channel :)
My dad always said - things are never built to last these days ! I still use some of his tools he got when he was an apprentice !! Things I buy now - I'm happy if it lasts to go back in it's case after using them..
What has always intrigued me or more accurately impressed me about these old machines, is the fact that someone sat down with a drawing table and pencil and designed all those components. No computers, no rapid prototyping. Draw it build it and if it don't work...literally back to the drawing board. And after all that, the things ran forever, and you could repair them yourself.
the explanation of the electromechanical clutch was worth the price of admission
I can watch stuff like this for hours..
Looking forward to an update on this project.. thanks for sharing.
You are a brave and Smart guy. I like that you don't mock on german egeneering and the metric System
Cant wait to see that thing get scrubbed, de-greased and then re-greased 😂
This would be a perfect time to collab with Abom79. He loves this stuff. 😁
Same here. It’ll be the best 40+ year old machine out there. Do you think he would tackle the worn gears on my old radial drill when he’s finished the Maho.
I would vote for keeping the original screw. Ballscrews are great for high speed and low backlash applications but might be of little benefit here. Unless you plan on doing a lot of 3D contouring, using the original screw will probably perform just fine and will allow you to use a smaller servo. Good luck with the project, I’ll be doing my own CNC conversion on an E-Beam welder here in a few months and will be interested to see what your choice of CNC control is, and how the final result comes out. EtherCAT is an awesome platform, not only for motion control but for general I/O as well, and a wide variety of stuff can be found on eBay now for dirt cheap.
A tip from a robot guy used to discussing all the different flavors of axis orientations; extend your right hand, point your fingers in the direction of the +X-axis, now curl your fingers towards the +Y axis, your thumb now points in the +Z axis. Now, if you ever run across several robot guys flashing what look to be gang-signs to each other, you'll know that they're discussing the axis orientations and transformations.
I remember last time I made the mistake of eating a Maho. You only make that decision once.
This too shall pass...
@@sjoormen1 not easily, though.
Everyone needs a challenging project, I am just glad it's yours!
Thanks, Tony for the tomato anatomy lesson! Didn't know that they have a posterior orifice. You taught me mechanics and biology at the same time - way to multitask!
Man, I thought I was being ambitious until I saw this. I bought a manual PM932 milling machine with the idea of converting it to CNC. Been (VERY slowly) working at that for going on a couple of years now. There's a forum I'm following to guide me. But your project is really ambitious, methinks. I'll be interested in the progress.
please keep me in your prayers.
I think that the fact this autopsy was #trending on UA-cam today is a reflection that we TOT fans are hungry for some more content. Love it !
Hahahahahahahahahah. That maho is simple; I've had my K&T apart, it has power feed/rapids in all 3 axis, 16 feeds and speeds, all mechanical. All. Mechanical. 2 clutches, everything else is engaged by gears you slam into place
Cant tel if you are talking about a truck or a milling macine love it
I bought a 1998 haas hs1 1 year ago, I got it mostly functional, and now im getting it ready to move into my garage. The machine is 111" tall, and my garage door is 96", but its 120" tall inside. so I have to take the tool changer, and bunch of other stuff off. I had to build a bridge of sorts to hoist the tool changer off, but it had to be short enough to still fit in my garage. I took the tool changer down last night, and I guess I got lucky since it worked and I still have all the fingers I had when I started.
Tony, Tony, Tony.....
If it's one thing I've learnt by watching your videos, you do things properly! You have gone down this path of performing the cnc conversion, you owe it to the machine and us!
It's like your motorbike, you replaced everything but the rotor/disc and you still had issues until you change it as well, do the job properly and change it over.
Clickspring would be ashamed of you even thought of taking the easy way out! :P
Regards
**clicky magnetic clutches** me: ah yes, beautifull sound of engineering
I love Maho.... both my father and myself leaned how to work on a CNC Milling Machine with a Maho.
I have to say Iove your videos and your humor. Just good writing and good wholsome wit in jokes is missing in anything mainstream. I also work at a manufacturing plant and love to see the engineering behind this mill. Nice work, keep it up.