I think on the one hand he was telling Saul this because he needed to tell someone about it after going through the stock of it all but ended up treating it like a joke so that Saul doesn't report it and he's really afraid of Cain and wouldn't want her to know he's being spilling his guys to Adama's number two.
Yeah the chief of the boat man of the Pegasus he got a battlefield promotion not what he was looking forward to not like that because he knew he would be next he didn't have no choice in the matter man she could have arrested him at the MPS put them in the brick but in situation like that in the heat of combat she had to make an officer discretion she had to set an example that she did it without no hesitation. After all the government had fallen she wouldn't be persecuted for it the entire colonial government was gone so as captain of the boat she was both governor and military officer she was a piece of s*** anyway but it really didn't matter she was the commander of the boat
@@barbiquearea that is a good analysis of what the show was trying to achieve. It was done subtly and well done. However, the actual murder scene is pretty stupid as written, and does not do this justice.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." -William Adama-
I understand the thought, but that is a misleading assumption. Take a look at Kitty Genovese, who was r*ped in broad daylight in a public street while a lot of people were watching. This is where we derive the bystander effect from in psychology. People understand that it is wrong and someone has to intervene. But its a rare trait to step up, enter conflict, call it out or even call for help (e.g. police). If people are not even acting in such a low-risk scenario (call the cops), why would they risk their lives in a mutiny which is one of the riskiest social deduction games: No one will play with their intentions visible to others. If you tell the wrong person that you are a mutineer, you will get court martialed and executed. Or simply executed, if you tell the hidden mutineers that you are loyal to the current command. But in addition to this: The bigger the group, the harder it is to know, if you end up in the majority or the minority. And since we have developed ways of fighting quite a bit, numbers are not everything: If you end up in the less competent group, the mistakes of your fellow mates might kill you fast. A coup often relies on orchestrated key actions. When was the last time that you saw groups of people following through with a structured plan that was not trained/given by drilled process instructions like how to make a burger at McDonalds? There is another layer to it: Take a look around in the economy. Since the boom of Covid, a lot of big companies are now laying off people in mass scales. Sometimes they hide it behind a big restructuring. These transformation processes happen everywhere in big companies right now and are basically tied to the goals of the CEOs. Make this company profitable. They dont know how to increase the income or get a bigger market share. They often dont know how the business model actually works: Hideo Kojima was the last guy on the board at Konami who was actually a software developer. Now its filled with business administration people. Blizzard is the same. Aside from videogame companies, you ll find this in other tech companies, logistics and a lot in hospitals. But if you dont know how the business model is done and what is an urgent thing to do, you dont want to touch a house of cards that you could ruin. Instead, you ll just reduce the costs which are there right now. And that always leads to rationalize / automate processes to fire people. You should take a look how these processes work: the CEO asks for a way of replacement and someone needs to assure with technological, law and other knowledge: this will work. Only then will the CEO allow it. Publicly you want to separate the connection of having fired a lot of people (which is why they always state the big companies name "Amazon let off 100k people" but never the one in charge. But when it comes to the earnings / winning: "Jeff Bezos increased the market share by 2%". Now the transformation process is similarly ruthless and existentially threatening as the mutiny in BSG: I dont care about you. I will fire you. I will take all of your basis for life (salary, therefore means to live and qualification because if you dont find a job in a while, you will have a harder time in the market). Yes, it is not running around with guns on a small ship. But you know that you will ruin people. You articulate that this is just capitalism and everyone needs to take care of themselves and see that they can maintain a life and all. You have less scarcity than on the Pegasus (BSG) which is space to live. While in life, it is available jobs, money and that. But the similarity is: People notice how their companies are run into the wall every day. There are a lot of bad choices by management. Solid employers are run down by bad top management decisions, not by the barista overfilling the cups. But the consequences hit the common folk. Have you ever seen people standing up? Fighting for the jobs against leadership? Another example is how easy Union busting is. If you have a need for an Union, it should be highly motivational to establish it. But people are waiting there like the hare sitting in front of a snake. My finest example is Edward Snowden. He did the right thing. Maybe one of the actual few heroes of our lifetime. And no one cares. Where is the fair process he wanted? Where are the people rallying up for his rights because he ensured other peoples rights? Seeing him getting no reaction whatsoever was just a confirmation that you can cut peoples lives hard and get away with everything.
Nope, you're in battle, mutiny would guarantee battle loss & your death, in the moment you would absolutely not question the leader. In history, there are accounts of leaders during battle having executed those out of line as a means to restore lost morale in a squad - the 'fear but follow' technique.
I'm a bit curious about two things here. 1. How did the Pegasus get out of that situation? It looked pretty terrible. 2. What rank was Mr. Belzen? If Cain was an Admiral and Fisk a Colonel, the only solution would be a Commander. The "real" Commander of that Battlestar, while Cain was a flag officer probably in command of a larger fleet (the other Battlestars that were docked at the shipyards perhaps), using Pegasus as her command ship. However, this could also be "Now you are in command, Admiral Piett"-situation, where she adressed Fisk with the rank she just promoted him to.
Not to necro this, but wanted to answer your second question: Belzen was a Colonel and XO at the time. Fisk was a Lieutenant Colonel (still referred to as a Colonel), and was promoted to the full rank shortly after assuming the duties of XO. Supporting/secondary materials show that Cain was in command of Pegasus as a “prestige” position, but as a way to tuck her away
1: she fought her way out with many casualties. She's lucky to have a Mercury class. 2: Belzen is a Colonel. In BSG there are a mix of Army, Navy and AirForce ranks. Tigh is an XO and a Colonel so Belzen is a Colonel as well . Fisk is second officer and a Lt Colonel. 3. Admirals tend to captain their flagship in this universe. The admiral whose ship shut down against the Cylons is an example.
I look at this scene and one thing in the middle of a battle Cain shot her XO then relive him as crew in shock over what happen they not focus allowed Cylons to land on there ship
as much as this spesific character pissed me off. you just couldn't help but understand her Choices. she was however criminally insane but it might have been exactly what the crew of pegasus needed during the beginnings of the war. Michelle Forbes is one of the actresses i've seen on battlestar galactica that seem to not got that many acting roles and it pisses me off because she truly is an amasing actress.
"she was however criminally insane but it might have been exactly what the crew of pegasus needed during the beginnings of the war." Well, she was certainly not what humanity needed at that point. She was reckless to the point of collective suicide, and she willingly sacrificed all that was left of the civilian fleet (at least as far as she knew). Victory, even if it could have been achieved, is completely meaningless if the very thing the military was supposed to protect doesn't exist anymore. She was a total fuckwit and needed to go. I do agree about the actress, though. She _owned_ that role.
An example of a high functioning borderline. Says one thing, gets excited, does something impulsive and then doubles down. Becomes omnipotent and cannot be wrong. A closeted lesbian too.
Not forgetting what she did to that poor Cylon (forgot her name), whom she had a close connection to. Like, what kinda fucked up person justifies that.
Poor? Aint nothing poor with the cylons dude. They are the enemy. They pretty much destroyed all human life. Fuck the cylons. You are the reason why the Cylons destoyed humanity. Fucking liberal. "Poor Cylons, feel sorry for them bubu" fuck you
She was a FAR cry from the flamboyant and often flippant Admiral Cain of the original BSG. He was like General George S. Patton of WWII fame. But he was not a murderer, only obsessed by his own legend. Helena Cain acts almost like this is a twisted, dark version of BSG. Like in Star Trek "Mirror Mirror" An Imperial Pegasus minus the Agony Booth. With an Imperial Admiral who stops at nothing to get the job done (murder and plunder included) If anything, it reinforced that Commander Adama was a good man trying to save the last of humanity. Cain lived up to the biblical equivalent of Cain and Abel when she tried to have Adama assassinated. Michelle Forbes played this version incredibly. Lloyd Bridges played the original BSG version.
Lloyd Bridges? Lmao now I’m picturing him sticking a hanky in one ear and pulling it out the other like in Hot Shots talking about how he lost half his skull to the Cylons in Korea 😂😂
To be fair, the Cylons reduced a population of many billions down to less than 100,000 with nukes. Her planet, almost everyone she ever knew was slaughtered. That tends to change a person. I think her portrayal was fantastic.
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What was her logic behind this decision? rather emotion probably. She only has handful of crew and resources left and her decision is to throw everything she got when she is outnumbered when she could have easily retreat without much casualty.
because if she lets the 1st officer decline orders he doesn’t like, then it falls to the 2nd officer who will have just witnesses you can decline orders and nothing bad happens to you, so the 2nd officer also declines the orders. then it goes to the 3rd officer who saw two senior officers getting away with declining orders, and it just keeps going down the line. by executing the 1st officer, the 2nd officer becomes compliant because he sees there are real consequences for insubordination and he doesn’t want to die
Michelle Forbes is a strong actor. I must seek out ger other film work. I stll say her Ro Laren character as the Bajoran leader in DS9 would have been an awesome idea.
Good grief, this scene is making me dizzy. Maybe they should have cut back a tad on the special effects and invested in a steady-cam, or even a tripod.
While I'm in agreement with you (I abhor the blinding all-white scenes, that are an all-too-common practice in media, to portray all sorts of phenomena such as lightheadedness, explosions/gunshots, seeing the Sun, or other disorientation) it (and those other things) aids a lot in selling the absolute chaos of the events. Strap in- emotionally and physically.
@@TheArbieo and the intimidation is far more worse, of death here or possible death out there. Something something Stalingrade WW2 not one step back comrades....
Realistic? Are you kidding me? You don't think it's realistic for megalomaniacal officers to murder their subordinates in times of great pressure in combat? Do yourself a favour and look up what the Soviets did to their own people routinely in Stalingrad.
@@RenegadeShepTheSpacer just seems like a good way to encourage mutiny and a complete violation of military protocol. It wasn’t done on the heat of the moment it was cold and calculated. Very cartoon villain which is out of place in the tone of this show. We never get a feeling that the humans are as bad as the soviets until specifically the Pegasus shows up and for some reason this ship in particular is crewed entirely by hitlers
@@Quincy_Morris A violation of not only protocol, but also human rights. I agree with that, of course. But that isn't going to stop people from being led by fear. North Korea is a contemporary example of this in action. She's not cartoonish. This is a very plausible scenario - a military leader, who loses absolutely everything during the genocide of her species, snaps and becomes a cold-blooded, ruthless warlord. That isn't far-fetched whatsoever and fits in with the tone of the show perfectly, given how dark and gritty it is.
One thing that bugs me about this scene is the omission that the Pegasus could manufacture their own Vipers and had much better onboard-training facilities than other Battlestars. Don't get me wrong, Cain is uncaringly ruthless here, potentially throwing away both her pilots and a couple good fighters. But it is callous in a "we have reserves" kind of way, and *not* suicidal, as the scene makes it out to be. Galactica could not sustain loosing their entire air wing - but Pegasus could, given enough time.
Even if you interpret that to mean they could rebuild their air wing from nothing, not just replenish losses, they'd still be effectively defenseless while they rebuilt.
They'd need the raw materials to do that, and I think the onboard production facility is really meant more for "we are on an expeditionary campaign in a fleet environment with plenty of support assets and need to replace a fighter here and there", not "we are literally the only remaining military vessel and need to replace our entire air wing quick-like to keep up our guerilla attacks". Plus, as you touched on, you cannot manufacture experienced pilots in a factory.
@@gaiusbaltar8915 not entirely. Just most of it. And the entire ship is running massively under capacity, not just the air wing. Much of their crew are shanghaied civilians at that point.
Good work to inter cut the two scenes! Cain was right to do what she did. They might all have been about to die anyway, especially so if she made the wrong decision.
Thank's, you are the first one who talk about cutting the scenes! I like Helena Cain too, even so she could communicate a little more with her XO instead of killing him! I like her especially when i'm playing with her in the board game!
Cain was in the wrong, and would have been court martialed. That's why her current XO says it's a joke, because if he hadn't, Tigh would have reported it (you all saw how shook he was, right?) to Adama.
You wonder why there aren't as many australians in sci-fi shows, then you hear old mate on the radar screen and realise it's because it's like crocodile dundee or steve irwin is calling out incoming targets and it just sounds weird.
As a detached flag officer in time of war she has broad authority. She couldn't afford to carry a weak XO and needed to make an example to the crew of the level of fanaticism required in the fight against the enemy.
Cain's actions after finding the human fleet protected by Galactica were the problem, not her focus on this mission which the Pegasus survived. Later under different circumstances she did not prioritise protecting the fleet. That was where she went wrong.
He was right though. Pegasus walked into a trap and she needlessly threw lives away. (Pegasus got boarded and they lost a LOT of people in this fight) Even though they “won” it was a waste of people and resources that she couldn’t afford. It was a miracle Pegasus survived long enough to stumble into Galactica. (Which she was barrelling towards in belief it was more cylons, even with the fleet which, on Dradis aren’t distinguishable from warships.) She had totally lost the plot. And if Fisk had had any balls he would’ve relieved her of command after she shot the XO, recalled and got the frak out of there. (The only positive to come from this attack was the exposure of the humanoid cylons)
@@Quincy_Morris kind of my thoughts seeing this cause yeah as a former NCO i can honestly say if i saw the commanding officer do that in that situation id have a hard time shooting her first.
Edgelords who never suffered more than a paper cut think that this is great writing. The whole scene is completely irrational. He was not removing her from command. Her order to attack was stupid and achieved nothing. Only thick feminist plot armor turned the attack into not a complete disaster. The crew would know it. No one would celebrate it. Caine would be removed from command. Junior high writing.
Hilarious that you would call anyone else an edge lord after writing that screed. The attack WAS a disaster, that’s why Pegasus plundered its civvie fleet for resources and personnel. It’s an extreme scenario, you have basically no earthly equivalent in modern western militaries to know that the crew would or would not take her into custody. You accuse other people of being naive or soft, but you exhibit extreme naivety in your faith that a crew would act in unison on principle and arrest a captain in that scenario, a lone ship with zero backup. Additionally, there ARE plenty of examples in human history of soldiers killing a subordinate to ‘motivate’ the rest. Junior high comment.
@ so, you are just saying that you do not understand human nature or how the military works. Nice There was no reason you shoot the XO. There was no good reason for the attack. She would have been removed because: 1. Real people seldom use murder as a way of achieving professional goals. (Look up the word professional before you tirade about general murder rate) 2. Real military has rules. Shooting someone for disagreeing is not acceptable. She would be arrested. 3. Telling non sensual things is not a strategy. Those things do all work in badly written video games and movies, because weak people who never faced danger think it is edgy to imagine this is reality. Hence, edgelord. . Your mom still brings you nuggies, huh?
...this sort of thing has literally happened numerous times throughout history...hell, throughout my lifetime. People tend to follow the leader, and if there isn't another 'leader' ready to draw their weapon on the officer who just shot their subordinate in the face, the crowd is going to go along with what she says, at least for the duration of the battle.
The character of Admiral Cain was ruined from the very first scene she was in. Yet, another Badmiral written by people who don't have the first clue of writing military characters.
I disagree. She serves to show what could happen if a senior officer decided to essentially become God onboard their ship. Judge and Executioner. The colonies are gone, and she answers to no one but herself. Cain and her crew were shocked to run into Galactica, as they believed that they might actually be the last humans left in the universe. AI has destroyed almost all of humanity. If this were real, and almost all of humanity was wiped, who knows how the military would react in that situation.
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I think on the one hand he was telling Saul this because he needed to tell someone about it after going through the stock of it all but ended up treating it like a joke so that Saul doesn't report it and he's really afraid of Cain and wouldn't want her to know he's being spilling his guys to Adama's number two.
Yeah the chief of the boat man of the Pegasus he got a battlefield promotion not what he was looking forward to not like that because he knew he would be next he didn't have no choice in the matter man she could have arrested him at the MPS put them in the brick but in situation like that in the heat of combat she had to make an officer discretion she had to set an example that she did it without no hesitation. After all the government had fallen she wouldn't be persecuted for it the entire colonial government was gone so as captain of the boat she was both governor and military officer she was a piece of s*** anyway but it really didn't matter she was the commander of the boat
That's great writing.
Absolutely!!! And one of the many reasons this series was SO damned special!!! So Say We All!!!
@@barbiquearea that is a good analysis of what the show was trying to achieve. It was done subtly and well done.
However, the actual murder scene is pretty stupid as written, and does not do this justice.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." -William Adama-
Amen!
Wise words.
Sounds like USA under the Biden Regime.
That's why you separate the executive and the judiciary.
@@OpenGL4ever And you don't let the judiciary decide the executive deserves more power.
2:42 This is the censored scene. When Admiral Cain shoots this fellow in the face, behind his head explodes on the tactical chart.
The xo refused to obey an order that he knew was wrong..he didn't even flinch. Props for doing what was right even if it costed his life
Ro Laren shoots the Goa'Uld Camulus ^^
As related to Dick Cheney by Glenn Beck.
She is really gone mad after she left Enterprise. Picard didn't train her well
A Nietzschean can never be trusted... 😉
@@estudiordl
I understood that reference!
@@estudiordl Gaheris had it coming
Steve Bacic likes to play XOs who get killed by their commander before the show really begins.
In Andromeda, he actually returned as the grandson that XO.
Lol why is this hilarious to read.
Saul's reaction to Fisk's laughter is hilarious
"Hey, I'm in Andromeda!" _shot by Dilan Hunt_
"Hey, I'm in Galactica!" _shot by Helena Cain_
"Why, God!" _stabbed by Lucifer_
"Fuck it! I'm done"
best comment :) even if unnoticed
Even if it is fiction you would fully expect the crew to mutiny immediately after she murdered the xo in front of them.
I understand the thought, but that is a misleading assumption.
Take a look at Kitty Genovese, who was r*ped in broad daylight in a public street while a lot of people were watching. This is where we derive the bystander effect from in psychology. People understand that it is wrong and someone has to intervene. But its a rare trait to step up, enter conflict, call it out or even call for help (e.g. police). If people are not even acting in such a low-risk scenario (call the cops), why would they risk their lives in a mutiny which is one of the riskiest social deduction games: No one will play with their intentions visible to others. If you tell the wrong person that you are a mutineer, you will get court martialed and executed. Or simply executed, if you tell the hidden mutineers that you are loyal to the current command. But in addition to this: The bigger the group, the harder it is to know, if you end up in the majority or the minority. And since we have developed ways of fighting quite a bit, numbers are not everything: If you end up in the less competent group, the mistakes of your fellow mates might kill you fast. A coup often relies on orchestrated key actions. When was the last time that you saw groups of people following through with a structured plan that was not trained/given by drilled process instructions like how to make a burger at McDonalds?
There is another layer to it: Take a look around in the economy. Since the boom of Covid, a lot of big companies are now laying off people in mass scales. Sometimes they hide it behind a big restructuring. These transformation processes happen everywhere in big companies right now and are basically tied to the goals of the CEOs. Make this company profitable. They dont know how to increase the income or get a bigger market share. They often dont know how the business model actually works: Hideo Kojima was the last guy on the board at Konami who was actually a software developer. Now its filled with business administration people. Blizzard is the same. Aside from videogame companies, you ll find this in other tech companies, logistics and a lot in hospitals.
But if you dont know how the business model is done and what is an urgent thing to do, you dont want to touch a house of cards that you could ruin. Instead, you ll just reduce the costs which are there right now. And that always leads to rationalize / automate processes to fire people. You should take a look how these processes work: the CEO asks for a way of replacement and someone needs to assure with technological, law and other knowledge: this will work.
Only then will the CEO allow it. Publicly you want to separate the connection of having fired a lot of people (which is why they always state the big companies name "Amazon let off 100k people" but never the one in charge. But when it comes to the earnings / winning: "Jeff Bezos increased the market share by 2%".
Now the transformation process is similarly ruthless and existentially threatening as the mutiny in BSG:
I dont care about you. I will fire you. I will take all of your basis for life (salary, therefore means to live and qualification because if you dont find a job in a while, you will have a harder time in the market).
Yes, it is not running around with guns on a small ship. But you know that you will ruin people. You articulate that this is just capitalism and everyone needs to take care of themselves and see that they can maintain a life and all. You have less scarcity than on the Pegasus (BSG) which is space to live. While in life, it is available jobs, money and that.
But the similarity is: People notice how their companies are run into the wall every day. There are a lot of bad choices by management. Solid employers are run down by bad top management decisions, not by the barista overfilling the cups. But the consequences hit the common folk.
Have you ever seen people standing up? Fighting for the jobs against leadership?
Another example is how easy Union busting is. If you have a need for an Union, it should be highly motivational to establish it. But people are waiting there like the hare sitting in front of a snake.
My finest example is Edward Snowden. He did the right thing. Maybe one of the actual few heroes of our lifetime. And no one cares.
Where is the fair process he wanted? Where are the people rallying up for his rights because he ensured other peoples rights?
Seeing him getting no reaction whatsoever was just a confirmation that you can cut peoples lives hard and get away with everything.
Not necessary. It depends how in shock they are too.
@@Nmagg1776 Hell no... It would have been the DUTY of every officer there to instantly draw down on Cain and relieve her of command
Nope, you're in battle, mutiny would guarantee battle loss & your death, in the moment you would absolutely not question the leader. In history, there are accounts of leaders during battle having executed those out of line as a means to restore lost morale in a squad - the 'fear but follow' technique.
@Amcor09 Maybe you meant discipline? I doubt an execution would rise the morale, unless that person was a really big sob.
Narrator: He was not, in fact, joking
I'm a bit curious about two things here.
1. How did the Pegasus get out of that situation? It looked pretty terrible.
2. What rank was Mr. Belzen? If Cain was an Admiral and Fisk a Colonel, the only solution would be a Commander. The "real" Commander of that Battlestar, while Cain was a flag officer probably in command of a larger fleet (the other Battlestars that were docked at the shipyards perhaps), using Pegasus as her command ship. However, this could also be "Now you are in command, Admiral Piett"-situation, where she adressed Fisk with the rank she just promoted him to.
Not to necro this, but wanted to answer your second question:
Belzen was a Colonel and XO at the time. Fisk was a Lieutenant Colonel (still referred to as a Colonel), and was promoted to the full rank shortly after assuming the duties of XO. Supporting/secondary materials show that Cain was in command of Pegasus as a “prestige” position, but as a way to tuck her away
1: she fought her way out with many casualties. She's lucky to have a Mercury class.
2: Belzen is a Colonel. In BSG there are a mix of Army, Navy and AirForce ranks. Tigh is an XO and a Colonel so Belzen is a Colonel as well . Fisk is second officer and a Lt Colonel.
3. Admirals tend to captain their flagship in this universe. The admiral whose ship shut down against the Cylons is an example.
I look at this scene and one thing in the middle of a battle Cain shot her XO then relive him as crew in shock over what happen they not focus allowed Cylons to land on there ship
Lol. Give me your side arm.
Me:hell no lady.
as much as this spesific character pissed me off. you just couldn't help but understand her Choices. she was however criminally insane but it might have been exactly what the crew of pegasus needed during the beginnings of the war. Michelle Forbes is one of the actresses i've seen on battlestar galactica that seem to not got that many acting roles and it pisses me off because she truly is an amasing actress.
"she was however criminally insane but it might have been exactly what the crew of pegasus needed during the beginnings of the war."
Well, she was certainly not what humanity needed at that point. She was reckless to the point of collective suicide, and she willingly sacrificed all that was left of the civilian fleet (at least as far as she knew). Victory, even if it could have been achieved, is completely meaningless if the very thing the military was supposed to protect doesn't exist anymore. She was a total fuckwit and needed to go.
I do agree about the actress, though. She _owned_ that role.
An example of a high functioning borderline. Says one thing, gets excited, does something impulsive and then doubles down. Becomes omnipotent and cannot be wrong. A closeted lesbian too.
Not forgetting what she did to that poor Cylon (forgot her name), whom she had a close connection to. Like, what kinda fucked up person justifies that.
Poor? Aint nothing poor with the cylons dude. They are the enemy. They pretty much destroyed all human life. Fuck the cylons. You are the reason why the Cylons destoyed humanity. Fucking liberal. "Poor Cylons, feel sorry for them bubu" fuck you
aT 2.00 iTS THE FIRST TIME IN HER CAREER, that she didnt get her will. She has a confundesd expression. And only has one answer for it. Bitch
She was a FAR cry from the flamboyant and often flippant Admiral Cain of the original BSG. He was like General George S. Patton of WWII fame. But he was not a murderer, only obsessed by his own legend. Helena Cain acts almost like this is a twisted, dark version of BSG. Like in Star Trek "Mirror Mirror" An Imperial Pegasus minus the Agony Booth. With an Imperial Admiral who stops at nothing to get the job done (murder and plunder included) If anything, it reinforced that Commander Adama was a good man trying to save the last of humanity. Cain lived up to the biblical equivalent of Cain and Abel when she tried to have Adama assassinated. Michelle Forbes played this version incredibly. Lloyd Bridges played the original BSG version.
Deathstrike, Well concurrently, Adama had Starbuck in position to do the same to Cain, so....
Lloyd Bridges? Lmao now I’m picturing him sticking a hanky in one ear and pulling it out the other like in Hot Shots talking about how he lost half his skull to the Cylons in Korea 😂😂
To be fair, the Cylons reduced a population of many billions down to less than 100,000 with nukes. Her planet, almost everyone she ever knew was slaughtered.
That tends to change a person.
I think her portrayal was fantastic.
I still say the OG BSG is better
@@melina001a for dumbasses, sure
Definition of a loose canon...
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What was her logic behind this decision? rather emotion probably. She only has handful of crew and resources left and her decision is to throw everything she got when she is outnumbered when she could have easily retreat without much casualty.
because if she lets the 1st officer decline orders he doesn’t like, then it falls to the 2nd officer who will have just witnesses you can decline orders and nothing bad happens to you, so the 2nd officer also declines the orders. then it goes to the 3rd officer who saw two senior officers getting away with declining orders, and it just keeps going down the line.
by executing the 1st officer, the 2nd officer becomes compliant because he sees there are real consequences for insubordination and he doesn’t want to die
“Colonel Fisk……….COLONEL FISK!”
🤣
Poor Telemachus Rhadé. Survived the war against the Magog worldship only to die when Ro Laren became insane.
Good character and good arc imo. You need to be brutal fighting for survival.
Rhade had this coming.
PAYBACK BIATCH!
Wouldn’t it have been easier for Pegasus to just use forward batteries?
Michelle Forbes is a strong actor. I must seek out ger other film work. I stll say her Ro Laren character as the Bajoran leader in DS9 would have been an awesome idea.
Good grief, this scene is making me dizzy.
Maybe they should have cut back a tad on the special effects and invested in a steady-cam, or even a tripod.
BSG made shaky-ass-cam into a frickin artform. It's the one thing you really had to get used to before you could truly enjoy the show.
@NightRunner417 Well, that and all end drama.
While I'm in agreement with you (I abhor the blinding all-white scenes, that are an all-too-common practice in media, to portray all sorts of phenomena such as lightheadedness, explosions/gunshots, seeing the Sun, or other disorientation) it (and those other things) aids a lot in selling the absolute chaos of the events. Strap in- emotionally and physically.
@@unearth1640 Just because the events are chaotic doesn't mean they can't be depicted clearly.
XO looking at rack with Viper vision. THXOM HE DESERVED IT ^_^
Sir my Boyfriend fiancee dumped me, thats not a lovebite. 2.40 sets lethal.
He was a Goa'uld infiltrator so.....
Doesn’t seem realistic. There are brigs and stuff for a reason.
Yeah, but she can't brig everyone who defies her.
Bullets, on the other hand, are plentiful.
@@TheArbieo and the intimidation is far more worse, of death here or possible death out there. Something something Stalingrade WW2 not one step back comrades....
Realistic? Are you kidding me? You don't think it's realistic for megalomaniacal officers to murder their subordinates in times of great pressure in combat? Do yourself a favour and look up what the Soviets did to their own people routinely in Stalingrad.
@@RenegadeShepTheSpacer just seems like a good way to encourage mutiny and a complete violation of military protocol. It wasn’t done on the heat of the moment it was cold and calculated. Very cartoon villain which is out of place in the tone of this show. We never get a feeling that the humans are as bad as the soviets until specifically the Pegasus shows up and for some reason this ship in particular is crewed entirely by hitlers
@@Quincy_Morris A violation of not only protocol, but also human rights. I agree with that, of course. But that isn't going to stop people from being led by fear. North Korea is a contemporary example of this in action.
She's not cartoonish. This is a very plausible scenario - a military leader, who loses absolutely everything during the genocide of her species, snaps and becomes a cold-blooded, ruthless warlord. That isn't far-fetched whatsoever and fits in with the tone of the show perfectly, given how dark and gritty it is.
fuckin' switch, we only want the shot scene !
One thing that bugs me about this scene is the omission that the Pegasus could manufacture their own Vipers and had much better onboard-training facilities than other Battlestars.
Don't get me wrong, Cain is uncaringly ruthless here, potentially throwing away both her pilots and a couple good fighters. But it is callous in a "we have reserves" kind of way, and *not* suicidal, as the scene makes it out to be. Galactica could not sustain loosing their entire air wing - but Pegasus could, given enough time.
Even if you interpret that to mean they could rebuild their air wing from nothing, not just replenish losses, they'd still be effectively defenseless while they rebuilt.
One thing over look is yes but not the actual people to man them without stripping from other vital areas
They'd need the raw materials to do that, and I think the onboard production facility is really meant more for "we are on an expeditionary campaign in a fleet environment with plenty of support assets and need to replace a fighter here and there", not "we are literally the only remaining military vessel and need to replace our entire air wing quick-like to keep up our guerilla attacks".
Plus, as you touched on, you cannot manufacture experienced pilots in a factory.
@@wll1500 That's true, but Cain *did* lose her entire air wing here, and once we meet Pegasus again, they've replaced them.
@@gaiusbaltar8915 not entirely. Just most of it. And the entire ship is running massively under capacity, not just the air wing. Much of their crew are shanghaied civilians at that point.
Good work to inter cut the two scenes! Cain was right to do what she did. They might all have been about to die anyway, especially so if she made the wrong decision.
Thank's, you are the first one who talk about cutting the scenes! I like Helena Cain too, even so she could communicate a little more with her XO instead of killing him! I like her especially when i'm playing with her in the board game!
What board game is this?!
Cain was in the wrong, and would have been court martialed. That's why her current XO says it's a joke, because if he hadn't, Tigh would have reported it (you all saw how shook he was, right?) to Adama.
She was the best Amiral in a fleet of cowards period
Wow. You missed the entire message.
@ enlight me then
You wonder why there aren't as many australians in sci-fi shows, then you hear old mate on the radar screen and realise it's because it's like crocodile dundee or steve irwin is calling out incoming targets and it just sounds weird.
see also Frankie adams/bobby draper in the expanse. Farscape largely avoids this because nearly every supporting actor is Aussie/Kiwi
Or Vertiigo. Now that would be something. 🤣🤣
oh, but everybody thought jon snow was cool when he did it
Admiral Cain was the highlight of BSG, after those three episodes is was mostly down hill.
As a detached flag officer in time of war she has broad authority. She couldn't afford to carry a weak XO and needed to make an example to the crew of the level of fanaticism required in the fight against the enemy.
wtf there is no excuse for what she did, she should be the one executed
Cain's actions after finding the human fleet protected by Galactica were the problem, not her focus on this mission which the Pegasus survived. Later under different circumstances she did not prioritise protecting the fleet. That was where she went wrong.
He was right though. Pegasus walked into a trap and she needlessly threw lives away. (Pegasus got boarded and they lost a LOT of people in this fight) Even though they “won” it was a waste of people and resources that she couldn’t afford.
It was a miracle Pegasus survived long enough to stumble into Galactica. (Which she was barrelling towards in belief it was more cylons, even with the fleet which, on Dradis aren’t distinguishable from warships.) She had totally lost the plot. And if Fisk had had any balls he would’ve relieved her of command after she shot the XO, recalled and got the frak out of there. (The only positive to come from this attack was the exposure of the humanoid cylons)
audience2 that’s what brings are for. And strategy is not weakness. I’m surprised nobody shot her immediately.
@@Quincy_Morris kind of my thoughts seeing this cause yeah as a former NCO i can honestly say if i saw the commanding officer do that in that situation id have a hard time shooting her first.
Edgelords who never suffered more than a paper cut think that this is great writing. The whole scene is completely irrational. He was not removing her from command. Her order to attack was stupid and achieved nothing. Only thick feminist plot armor turned the attack into not a complete disaster. The crew would know it. No one would celebrate it. Caine would be removed from command.
Junior high writing.
Hilarious that you would call anyone else an edge lord after writing that screed. The attack WAS a disaster, that’s why Pegasus plundered its civvie fleet for resources and personnel. It’s an extreme scenario, you have basically no earthly equivalent in modern western militaries to know that the crew would or would not take her into custody. You accuse other people of being naive or soft, but you exhibit extreme naivety in your faith that a crew would act in unison on principle and arrest a captain in that scenario, a lone ship with zero backup. Additionally, there ARE plenty of examples in human history of soldiers killing a subordinate to ‘motivate’ the rest.
Junior high comment.
@ so, you are just saying that you do not understand human nature or how the military works. Nice
There was no reason you shoot the XO. There was no good reason for the attack. She would have been removed because:
1. Real people seldom use murder as a way of achieving professional goals. (Look up the word professional before you tirade about general murder rate)
2. Real military has rules. Shooting someone for disagreeing is not acceptable. She would be arrested.
3. Telling non sensual things is not a strategy.
Those things do all work in badly written video games and movies, because weak people who never faced danger think it is edgy to imagine this is reality. Hence, edgelord. .
Your mom still brings you nuggies, huh?
He was committing mutiny by disobeying a legal order. People who get their knowledge from cinema think mutiny is only usurping power. It's not.
@ it was not a legal or military sound order. I am ashamed stupid like you can vote
...this sort of thing has literally happened numerous times throughout history...hell, throughout my lifetime. People tend to follow the leader, and if there isn't another 'leader' ready to draw their weapon on the officer who just shot their subordinate in the face, the crowd is going to go along with what she says, at least for the duration of the battle.
The character of Admiral Cain was ruined from the very first scene she was in. Yet, another Badmiral written by people who don't have the first clue of writing military characters.
I disagree. She serves to show what could happen if a senior officer decided to essentially become God onboard their ship. Judge and Executioner. The colonies are gone, and she answers to no one but herself. Cain and her crew were shocked to run into Galactica, as they believed that they might actually be the last humans left in the universe. AI has destroyed almost all of humanity. If this were real, and almost all of humanity was wiped, who knows how the military would react in that situation.
You do realize that this is science fiction .
@@beccahaaby1007 No excuse for bad, uniformed writing.
Nah, she was written like that. She is mad. She ordered for the looting of civ ships and killed any that resisted.
@@Justin-ui5ti Yep. A terribly written character.