Helena Cain | Traitor. Murderer. Villain. & the worst person in BSG | Battlestar Galactica lore
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2023
- Generic greetings and welcome to a video about Helena Cain, my least favorite character in battlestar galactica and arguably the most evil person in the show. She’s a character that I personally wish tripped out an airlock and this video is going to be an expose on her and what she did. What she did was mostly kill civilians, make mistakes and murder her fellow crew because she didn’t like being called out on her mistakes.
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She may not be well written, but her actor was fucking incredible. Also, Jurgen is played by the same guy who played Talemecis and Gaharis Rhade on Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda and his being killed of like this is a gods damned crime.
He was also Camulus, a Goa'uld Lord, on Stargate SG-1.
she actually not badly written imo, it is just that the character was made to be unlikable and hated
Gaharis Rhade is always cursed to do the right thing and get killed for it
Simp
@@stuartwald2395Camulus was so good they even had him cameo in the movie Stargate Continuum. I wish he got more to do in the show than just like 2 meetings and then an episode as a bargaining chip. His underlings and rivals have a really fascinating set of stories in the books made after the show, there's a lot of plotting and backstabbing going on with the Celtic goauld.
Cain ordered a wasteful attack on the Cylon Base and lost many vipers and later on hundreds of crew members were killed when the Cylons boarded Pegasus.
Blood for the bloodgod.
Squandered her ship’s limited resources on a suicidal mission, executed her XO for refusing to follow what he saw as an idiotic order, robbed civilians she should have been protecting, leaving them to die…and this was all before she found Galactica. Cain was a complete psychopath whose crew either worshiped her or were too terrified to stand up to her. She got what she deserved.
Oh no, Cain 100% is a Villain. Did she start out that way? No. The second she shot her XO, she went all the way round the bend.
Aye. On the one hand I think she got that humanity was in dire straits and her aggressive attitude was a missing part of the fleet... Had she been around when Baltar became president she'd have deposed him... But on weighing the benefits vs cons, the negatives outweigh the postives.
She shot her XO, turned her crew into savages, stripped and abandoned another ragtag fleet of civilians, threw her ship into unwinnable battles of attrition, turned her heart to stone when her lover turned out to be a cylon and unleashed her crew whereon she encouraged them into said savagery that... with not so much as a 'May I Commander' unleashed on the Galactica and Boomer that resulted in the death of an officer... Etc. etc.
Cain was her own worst enemy. And if I am correct in the background lore she was recognized as a bad Battlestar operator and strategist. She had a famous mother, had all the right connections... Couldn't win a fight against experienced commanders because she always went for the most direct attack option allowing more experienced commanders to dance around her. The Pegasus was supposed to be an honor to command but in reality it was a place where she could do the least harm as Pegasus wasn't a fighting ship the way other BS's were built. She had facilities that served no purpose in a fight and was intended to be a mobile fighter construction and training platform in the event ground based construction and training was compromised. She wasn't a slugger like Galactica. She had a big right hook, but she was made to work with a fleet to cover her... And even then as a training and fighter construction facility she would be a valuable target that would need to vacate the zone as she is literally the means of continuing an offensive. If you lose a normal Battlestar it's a big loss in offensive capability. If you lose Pegasus it's a loss in firepower and the ability to recover from fighter damage and/or pilot losses... Hence why Cain was placed in command of a BS that would not intended to fight in the front lines where her bloodthirsty nature could not rear it's ugly head.
The Point of No Return. Yup.
@davfree9732 the Pegasus retcon is frankly the dumbest thing they ever wrote into battlestar canon. Pegasus is simply visibly a far more capable vessel than galactica. Better guns, vastly improved fighter capacity, and a distinctly armored design.
Galactica is supposed to be a literal museum ship but the retcon writers have been trying to make it magically better than everything else in the setting since the show ended. Valkyries being garbage is another example. They were supposed to be near equivalent to Galactica but smaller and cheaper and supported by bigger modern battlestars like Pegasus to suit the fighter shortage.
IMHO, after the removal of Cain, Pegasus should have been re-christened as Galactica and the command flag be moved there. I never did understand the writers destroying such a valuable military and civilian asset. >.
If you read the BSG comics, and novels they present some interesting pieces of information about the Mercury-class. For example, we find out that even though it's almost twice as big as the Jupiter class, the Mercury class's interior is mostly taken up by fabrication facilities (not weapons). So being bigger in this case is not necessarily an advantage. The Mercury class was considered a "test-bed" for new technologies (like on-board Viper factories), but was never intended to be mass produced as it was absurdly expensive.
Many Admirals considered the Mercury-class to be bloated, and preferred the cheaper Valkyrie-class, and refit Jupiter classes. Being posted to a highly expensive Mercury-class was considered a "prestige" post (but one with very little fleet authority). The Fleet Adrmirals stuck Admiral Cain on the Pegasus to "honor" her, but secretly they all thought she was crazy and unfit for commanding fleets. They wanted her someplace where she wouldn't be able to make important decisions.
We also find out about some ship war games that were carried out with the Pegasus against the smaller Valkyrie class. Admiral Cain ended up actually losing in the war games repeatedly against older smaller battlestars. The reason? Because she was incredibly inflexible, and not able to adapt to changing/unconventional tactics. She was too by the book. Other Captains, and ship commanders secretly made fun of her for inability to win with a larger more modern ship. So yeah, the BSG books and comics are interesting. You should read them.
Do you have the names of those books or comics so I can search & independently verify that?
That sounds both hilarious and awesome to see.
I would like to point out that according to deadlock, her grandmother, Rear Admiral Lucida Cain, would spin in her grave so fast if she saw what her daughter became.
Yeah. You could probably power the Galactica with the energy that spinning could generate. I absolutely loved Lucinda Cain as a character and simply wouldn’t believe the two could possibly be related except for sharing a last name (and in fiction that’s usually much more significant than real life as an indicator of being related).
It’s rather telling that grandma Cain said that ships aren’t disposable assets to throw at the enemy.
Pegasus really had shitty luck with Comanding officers. After barely survived Cain, she got Lee Adama who went full kamikaze/retard.
Don't forget Fisk, who got himself involved in the black market, and Garner, who was completely incapable of commanding a ship like Pegasus.
Lee was not bad commander it was lazy writters who needed Pegasus out of action, actualy even mini series showed he can use untested tactics etc, but Kara's and Galactica's plot armor made him in what we got, but for me he redeemed himself in his short career as President
btw whole W.Adama's tactic with Galactica jumping to atmo was stupid, he should have maximaly jump to low orbit release vipers and go to fight basestars, while raptors with assault package would jump in atmo, only good think on his plan was decoys, also should have ordered Lee to go with him, while saying that if thinks get back they will jump out and leave those who won't evacuate.
@@Edbi18 nope, the basestars would have slaughtered her, especially since they didn't have FTL sensors that can pick them up from a distance.
@@Edbi18 I'm not sure if it was true or canon, but I'd assumed Galactica had to jump in the planet because of the radiation that initially kept them safe from detection. Otherwise he would have had to jump outside of it where the decoys were and flown in through the entire cylon fleet.
@@ghs57 New Caprica was hidden/hard to find because of nebula, Cylons found em because of residual radiation after nuclear warhead detonation(given to 6 by Baltar). Only reason Adama had to jump into atmo was to release vipers there, which was kinda stupid cuz for such operations they had raptors. Even from his point of view not counting reinforcment basestars after luring out those counted bz decoys. He could jump to orbit start releasing Vipers, cylons without their Basestarts would need to respond with their raiders from ground. After seeing Cylons responded, then he could send Raptors(with assault package) which would jump into atmo to aid resistance and evacuation. HE still would be intercepted by reinforcement Basestars, but he has his Vipers even tho in small numbers but still has em and second, as I said he should not allow Lee to stay back, instead have him on call if go bad call for him(probably with raptor dont know how long range communication works(in galactica's universe) but from miniseries I would say it would be enough to just make call). So Pegasus jumps there surprising Basestars like in series, but instead on suicide run they would be fully ready for combat. And honestly those BAsestars are no enemy even for those two cripled Battlestars, the new gen Basestars lack of armor and protection of central axis is big design flaw(strange coming from machine's design) but those new gen compared to old gen dont ahve that big disk armor, so as I said their central axis is exposed for concentrated fire. I think Adama or someone mentioned that in Razor.
Cain wasn't poorly written. She was a foil for Adama. She was what any of them could become if they let gonof their humanity. She was a bloodthirsty monster who nearly took Galactica and the last survivors of humanity with her inti oblivion.
Six did them all a favor.
I’d still say she’s arguably poorly written because she’s almost cartoonishly evil given the setting and makes so many idiotic decisions that I find it entirely unbelievable that she wasn’t cashiered from Colonial Fleet a LONG time ago. She’d be barely tolerable as a ship captain in an ongoing war. In peacetime, you’d think she be quietly retired as unprofessional.
@John-fk2ky Like he covered in the video, she got to her position though politics and connections, not on her merits as a capable leader. She makes poor decisions not because she is poorly written but because she is irrational. She is governed by her fear, rage, and hatred rather than sound judgement. She has suppressed her humanity and believes any and all actions are justified in order to hurt the Cylons. She is a zealot of her own ego.
@@STSGingie All those negative traits are why I think she was given Pegasus.
We've seen other Battlestars that are lean fighting machines where every square inch is somehow dedicated to fighting a battle. Not so the Pegasus.
Pegasus has to lug around industrial fabricators to manufacture vipers. This takes time so those fabricators are assets for preparing for a battle... But not for actively fighting an engagement. This means she's carrying more mass in fabricators and raw materials that 1. Makes her slower than she would be if she were not carrying them and 2. Makes her more valuable as an asset in that she is a mobile pilot training center and Viper factory that unlike planet based industry and training centres, can move out of danger zones. She's got BS weaponry to provide a mean right hook, but as part of a fleet it's clear that she'd be to valuable to risk on front lines that require more mobile ships.
As a result, the brass likely gave Cain a prestigious assignment in the Pegasus, that ended up as a glorified post where she'd never be deployed into areas where her nature could endanger anyone.
I can see the brass wanting to keep Pegasus out of direct confrontations and use her as a center to base operations around as Pegasus can support other BS's flight wings, and if attacked she can handle herself long enough to convene with her fleet or jump out of danger... But a slugger like Galactica? I don't see it in a full fleet. Her extra capacity and the limitations they would enforce on her make her a blitzer. Good to break a front line and open it up for the sluggers, but after that she's best deployed far back enough that the sluggers can do their work and if needed, blitz to cover any needed retreat while offering expanded Viper support. You don't want the ship's fabricators taking damage and losing what makes Pegasus valuable to a fleet by putting her in a meat grinder.
@davfree9732 Interesting, so like Kirk, she got promoted to keepnher out of trouble. I like it.
I’d argue that she’s poorly written on the grounds of being inconsistent with her psychopathy. Her response to challenges to her authority is bullets, which makes it incredibly confusing that she didn’t purge the entire crew of the Galactica as planned.
It's a shame more Sci-Fi franchises don't use external hanger bays. Would have loved to see you take on them, alas...
They do not because because there would be less opportunity for witty banter between the various characters 😃
Stargate has the main human ships (for the last 3 seasons and 2-5 of Atlantis) using external hanger bays to launch fighters. It's really good.
There's a scene I can't find where Cain is talking to Jurgen in her quarters. On her treadmill is a fitness report for the ship that basically states the crew is stressed, overworked, and burned out. It's a great contrast between Cain's inflexible style of command, and Adama's "soft touch." Adama had incredibly loyal crew members at all levels of his command that he cared for, even if it meant giving them a reality check now and then. Cain on the other hand, ruled with an iron fist, and had no qualms about executing her own charges even if they were following her orders.
It's in the beginning of Razor, IIRC.
Never been in the military but BSG gave you a good lecture on authority and command. Adama was just the perfect example of a seasoned and experienced leader.
I find a few scenes when Adama Actual was drunk to really showcase the depth of both the character and actor. There was one near the end with he and Saul drunkenly berating Boomer. Likewise a few times when he really snaps on people. Little reminders that the dude is fully capable of leaning and/or giving into narcissistic tendencies and that the way he treats people is intentional.
Cain was diabolical.
She reminded me of the teacher i had when i was a kid. She was stupid, mean spirited, incompetent and narrow minded... and I hated her with every fibre of my being, even when is was just 9 years old.
Cain is just the same, just with more power.
Cain's lover was a Six, but not the *same* Six as the one Baltar knew (either of them).
Baltar never met a Six he didn't like
Not the exact same Six. But aren't all the copies of the various models basically identical? Like when the skin job cylons voted it was an unimaginable occurrence when Boomer voted differently from all the other eights. And it was very much established that humans couldn't tell them apart. Hell, Helios couldn't distinguish Boomer from his wife that time.
As far as I'm concerned she was unfit to wear a uniform. She acted like the rules she was supposed to follow no longer applied. And she routinely said one thing to her personnel that sounded reasonable until it was put to the test then proceeded to do the opposite.
SOUNDS LIKE A MILITIA TO ME!!!!!!
IRL, U.S. Military leaders like Cain accidentally step on grenades. Or are mistaken for enemies during combat and accidentally shot.
Yep she was a disgrace to her species
@@Snapper314”mistaken” and “accidentally” sounds like a not at all suspicious “tragedy”. 😅
@@ugoeze7360 It's a blue-on-blue event, in some circles. In Warhammer 40k, it's sometimes seen as preparation by the regimental commissar for a field promotion of the offending officer's XO or a just another Wednesday in the Death Korps of Krieg... Tuesdays are reserved for tacos.
I honestly think she's well written in a sense that the writers goal was to take the best worst qualities of WWII early era generals and admirals....blend them with Cold War military doctrine into an Admiral Cain smoothie.
What I mean by that, she was written to be hated. Her objectives and overall goals were not strategic. It was akin to Commanders who thought the Magenoit Line was going to defend France (it didnt), nor the commanders who misunderstood how to use tanks (that didnt work out well) or the lack of strategic thinking that was needed to use Aircraft carriers at the start of campaigns (because who would have thunkit that having a floating platform to launch 900 aircraft to bomb a military base was a good idea). Cain was all those bad actions rolled up with the dash of "lets throw bodies into Vietnam/lets fund rebel groups" level of CIA and Career political General's thinking. I mean modern Generals are not great either, too busy politicking than actually understanding the weight of command, knowing that the first goal is to protect the ship if all else is gone.
Cain used her rank to hold hostage her crew and make them do things they morally wouldnt have done. When she got the ACP (Anti Cow Projectile) to the dome it was an end to a bad human written well by the writers.
That makes no sense. You’re comparing not understanding often brand new technology in most of those cases to demonstrably stupid decision-making on Cain’s part. And the Maginot Line was a symptom of too much caution, not aggression (Cain’s most obvious problem) and worked just fine in the areas it covered (you might notice that it was never attacked directly). Frankly, if you’re right in the author’s intent, neither you nor they understand WW1, WW2, or Cold War military commanders nor their thinking very well.
@@John-fk2ky If memory serves, beta lore states that Cain lacked the strategic insight and tactical competence of BS commanders who were of the old guard and fought their way to their positions in times of war. Cain was one of the new bloods coming into the fleet and rose quickly due to her family name and connections... But she never won a mock fight against other BS commanders because she was too straight forward and predictable.
For this reason the brass gave her Pegasus. Yes it's a modern BS... But it's also a valuable BS and thus one to be kept off the front lines as it's ability to recover Viper losses for other BS's while training pilots made it a valuable mobile flight training school that could move to where it was needed, evade attacks that planet based schools were susceptible too, and if necessary, fight it's way out of a predicament...
But as a forward command BS on the front lines? Pegasus would largely be placed out of the thick of battle as it had to lug around fab facilities that gave it no tactical advantage other than slowing down what could have been a faster BS if it didn't have them. It might have an overwhelming forward barrage but that lends itself to secondary lines while the sluggers like Galatica charge ahead. It was ultimately a Battlestar to honor Cains name and legacy in the press while keeping her out of situations where she might plunge a task force into the jaws of defeat.
The portrayal of Cain reminds me of the stories of how the British commanders, during the first and second world wars, were given authority to execute Allied soldiers (including those from my own country) for what they perceived as acts of 'cowardice' for not charging into enemy gunfire (when it was clearly suicidal) when ordered to do so. There was no term for PTSD at the time. Only many, many decades later, did the UK apologize for what was basically execution without trial and even worse than kangaroo court 'justice.'
@@John-fk2ky I think you honestly do not understand at all. The misunderstanding of technology and maintaining of old doctrine has always been an issue pre-cold war.
World War I was often billed as "The war to end all wars" with a heavy misconception that it was going to just be a repeat of the Franco-Prussian war. Where Calvary and small arms would win the day. There was a sense of romanticism, then when World War I, it all boiled down to trench warfare...thousands of lives for inches. While the tech was in its infancy, only those who rose up the ranks understood what they had on their hands. The generals that were still in charge during the itern-years did not understand. Gen. Erwin Rommel who only became the head of the German army only obtained the rank due to Infanterie Greif An (Infantry Attacks) that impressed Hitler. At that point before 1940 the the German High command (like other European High Commands) were littered with nepotistic Aristocrats. Infantry Attack's was such a insight that other military officer's read the book (notably Geroge S. Patton) and even after Rommel's death (after being implicated in the plot to assassinate Hitler) Tank Attack's a collection of rough drafts, notes and manuscripts became a core tenant of Tank Doctrine.
Its the same with Navy Warfare, Theodore Roosevelt wrote the book on naval tactics and warfare...to this day its still used as a cornerstone for fleet management and building. However to get to your main point of me not understand, I do fully understand that the aristocracy and nepotisim of the military has often lead to hundreds if not millions of lives lost because most Generals above two stars are inept to understands what's going on at the squad level. Instead they often look for what's going to gain them good press or a leg up to the next star.
Cain is that type of commander, she never served on a front line ship. She never worked her way through the ranks properly, if the lore around her is to be believed. She used her connections to move up the ranks with the ability to never serve in a position that would put her in harms way. Cain used her rank to force her personnel to do things because she had the right under military code to pop them in the head. If anything she was just one whole fight away of either destroying Pegasus herself or enough casualties on the ship would have forced the crew to remove her permently.
I believe she was a test pilot. She hurt her back thats a fast track to command.
She has two hero admirals in her father. Her great-grandmother was admiral of the fleet. Her grandfather was a admiral in command of Jupiter class pegasus.
I think adama was up from probation to admiral , had his covert mission succedd.
The admiralty moved him sideways. To galactica.
15:30 who the hell was trying to justify Cain letting the crew SA the Cylon? Yes, they genocided the 12 colonies, but how you treat your enemies speaks to your own humanity. I fully admit I don't really see AI as alive, but this AI looks like a human and replicates the feelings and emotions of a human, is visually indistinguishable from a real human. If you can torture and SA it without thinking twice I think that speaks more about you than the AI.
Completely agree, for one how you treat a POW (and she was) says a lot about the kind of ppl and society you are. And IMO it is important to keep yourself from becoming like the enemy you are fighting.
Someone kills my family and whole village but if I punch it I am the monster?
@@heraadrian7764 There is a huge difference between a punching someone and inserting your erect penis into them. The fact they kept the Cylon to be tortured for months on end instead of spacing her says a lot too. They wanted to CONTINUE the abuse.
And let's be real, that one Cylon wasn't like the head leader, they were just a foot soldier. This is like torturing the secretary of the politician that voted to burn your house down.
The ONLY good thing about that 6s treatment is it really drove home the cylons and the humans were the same people. If they weren't, the treatment would have had no effect. That 6 was ultimately mentally unhinged by it shows that the cylons and the humans were the same physically and mentally, which actually makes sense where you realize the 13th colony knew they were "cylon" and when they came back for the other colonies they didn't see a difference in themselves and the "humans" and worked to get the mechanical cylons into a human form.
This show was in the shadow of the War on Terror. There are definitely Gitmo and Abu Graib apologists. Even people today excuse Russian and IDF atrocities.
On the plus side, she is portrayed by Michelle Forbes, who is both talented and … er… ‘aesthetically pleasing’.
I don’t what that means but she she sure was hot.
Jurgen should have gone fullblown comnissar of the holy emperor on Cain and Blam her but he was slow so he got it for himself.
“Spaceball One they’ve gone to plaid”! 😂😂😂
"I said across her nose, not up it!"
@@darkleome5409I’m sorry sir, I’m doing my best.
Cain is a political admiral. They’re common in peacetime. Look at Washington and you see admirals as far as the eye can see. If you study WW2, you’ll notice that they quickly drop off as their incompetence becomes apparent. Calling the extermination a war is generous but if their decapitation strategy failed and the second cylon war was actually a war, Cain’s incompetence and temper would have become quickly apparent and she would have been busted down.
Eh, I'd say Gaius Baltar is the worst character with the most plot armor. Dude ran a Vichy government that everyone knew was controlled by Cylons and wasn't executed for it. And he's considered a Casanova on top of his obvious acts of treason.
And had a great coif. That is good hair, for you living meatsacks.
The Vichy thing is understandable, with him even having a muzzle making contact with his head to get him to comply. He was trying to make the best of a nightmare scenario for as many people as he could without dying.
Him giving a hot stranger with coding skills access to strategic level software? THAT is what we can hate him for. Also just generally being sleazy, annoying, and preachy in that final season.
@@bthsr7113 Except it isn't really though. As the President of the Colonial Government, his job is to represent the human race. Is the human race at war with the Cylons? Yes. Is he running a government that openly collaborates with the Cylons? Yes. That makes him guilty of treason and the evidence is overwhelmingly public. Being under duress isn't really an excuse in wartime.
The real problem was that by the time Billy was killed, there was no one left in the fleet that you could reasonably cheer for their survival. Ron Moore was so ideologically driven that it was far easier to pull for the genocidal robots than the humans.
The sole reason Baltar lived was Lee's speech. End of frakking story.
Introduced her forehead to lead, at a.... considerable velocity. Dude... that is a beautiful, beautiful phrase.
Most of your points are very good and I totally agree with you. BUT I need to say that the awesome performance of Michelle Forbes, in this character, is most likely the reason why people love this character and I can understand that... evil leaders need to have charisma to get to where they can do so much damage. Horrible character, Greatly interpreted by the actress :-)
100% agreed, she killed that role. I watched the entier show about 13-15 times since 2003 and I enjoy every minute of her screentime.
A old actor once said, you played a villain well, when the people started to hate you on the streets.
When turbo patton from the original is a better character than the reboot.
Captain Cain was willing to admit he was wrong at times. Admiral Cain shot people who disagreed with her.
@@dragonknightleader1 Kept a tight ship you would say, yes?
well..... thats any female in power. @@dragonknightleader1
@@dragonknightleader1 Commander Cain
🧐 "No complaints here!...Your right, Her character (DID) displayed the actions of a (Sadist & a Coward)." 👍
Raiding an suposedly undefended comunications outpost is exactly what Admiral Graf Spee tried at the Falklands during WW I
before learning the hard way that he had sailed into a british trap
Well remember that R. Moore wrote Cain as a dark What-if counter to Adama. He said in some interview that Cain is what Adama could have turned into without Roslin. If you remember, Adama wanted to stay and fight. Despite knowing it was a suicide mission. And if he would have lost Lee and the civilian fleet never found Galactica, perhaps Adama and the Galactica would have also had a miserable suicidal fate. But those assets in Adama's life prevented him from going down a very dark path. Moore loves this idea as he was also behind Star Trek Voyager's episodes involving the USS Equinox. Also in that story, the Equinox and her crew are a dark reflection of Voyager and her crew. Another what-if they went dark instead of staying in the light. Personally, I LOVE how these ideas play out in different Sci-fi's but when you think about it rationally, sometimes the motivations written that explains why said people went dark is dumb. Sometimes it's lack of creativity as the real meat of the story is just to have the protagonists face their dark reflections, but I do agree that Cain could have been written better. It's a missed opportunity that hopefully the next Sci-fi evil twin story arc will do better.
"We can't stop sir! We have to slow down first!!"
I know Deadlock came after the show, but i think the idea of Helena having both the guilt over her sister + trying to live up to her grandmother (deadlock) really adds a lot to her character and makes it more than a PTSD driven Admiral cracking under pressure, but a PSTD driven Admiral trying to live up to the memory of her grand mother who bascily saved the 12 colonies and colonial fleet.
And she is so blinded trying to recreate the success of her grandmother and avenge her sister that she is literally unable to see a future where she does not rebulid the fleet and retake the 12 colonies, even when everything is screaming at her thats not going to happen.
Yes shes evil, but i liked her as a character and i wish she had gotten a better death and i dont mean dying in battle, but a firing squad or even a failed "mutiny" and i think her death kind of wasted the character.
The way she died made sense. Someone who hated her in the chain of command could decide to let a Cylon do the dirty work of getting rid of her. Or even someone who went Harley Quinn to 6's Joker.
@@richardarriaga6271that was always my assumption too, enough people on the ship hated her enough to turn a blind eye and let Gina get some semblance of justice and put down the mad bitch
In short- she's Galactica's version of Captain Ahab. A bitter creature holding onto one grudge that still makes her life and expiriance mean something.
It does not matter than you can retire- the "White whale" you swore revenge on still lives and you can't let it go.
I honestly think that most of the Cain defenders are trolling by trying to defend the indefensible. You see something similar with Star Wars - there are people who like to defend the actions of the Empire in order to start an argument. Why? I dunno, it's the internet and some people have strange hobbies.
It's incredibly dumb because her whole character was intended to br a demonic narcissistic fuckup...come on people, you were NOT supposed to support her actions at all.
I hate how Disney tried to reboot her in star wars with purple hair and pretend like she was competent.
Uh, hate to ask but where/when did this happen?
@@TheGoddamnBacon Holdo.
👌😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and very well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on Admiral Helena Cain and everything about Her life story and that of Her unstable psychological mentality, A job very wonderfully well done indeed Sir!.
The breaking point here was when Jurgen countermanded her order and thus, effectively mutinied (at least that's how I understood it from SC:I's explanation, I have not seen that episode). He should have immediately shot her and assumed command, but he wasn't prepared to do what was required - it was a failure that he didn't live to regret.
He could have also played a more restrained card in the first place by talking with the ship's doctor and declare Helena Cain unfit for command, and THEN recall the vipers, as armed marines escorted her to the brig. Alas, the road not taken.
Definitely watch the episode (AKA the movie Razor) then. Long story short: they were in a (very dire) combat situation where seconds to give commands costs lives, and his actions, while correct militarily speaking (as far as I know), we're only half complete, the other half of relieving her of command not being taken, which my guess is he didn't think it was necessary because he thought she could still be reasoned with at the time. Unfortunately, it was at that moment (he saw her finger depressing the trigger), he knew he f***ed up.
Space balls! One of the best parodies ever
On the subject of the civilian government... yeah, on confirmation that Adama was taken down by Pegasus marines, Step 2 just would've been a nuke aimed at Colonial One.
“Were they Wrong?” -Lee Adama
“From a tactical perspective it’s hard to find fault with anything she did.” William Adama
Cain did everything she could do to save her crew and her ship in a wartime scenario. Although it wasn’t the way that Adama did it, she got the same results. She was presented as a cold and ruthless leader in the series but Razor humanized her and explained enough of why things happened the way they did.
It’s so easy to villainize her but put some thought into the character beyond face value. Ask yourself what would you do if you faced the same situations she did.
Tauron was also a mining center... Tauron miners were pretty notorious and supported the syndicate. Check your lore. Other than that... yeah, Cain was an embarrassment
Helena Cain probably my biggest disappointment in the Battlestar Galactica reboot. The reboot version of my favorite original Battlestar Galactica character played by the actress who played my favorite Star Trek TNG recurring character. What could go wrong? They could magnify all the original character's flaws a hundred times over, remove the character's redeeming qualities, and add a ton of new nastier traits.
Edit: I'm curious if they are any official numbers on how many Basestars the Cylons had because honestly you never see many. Enough to out number Galactica and Pegasus sure but not enough to indicate a fleet remotely as large as the one the Colonies had before the sneak attack IMO. Of course we don't know for sure their weren't Basestars tied up chasing other human ships or fleets we never saw. According to the novelization Galactica's fleet jumped in the opposite direction from the Armistice line. I remember thinking after I read that under those circumstances I would jump perpendicular to the Armistice line instead of away from it. The Cylons have clearly planned this attack out so its likely they'll have ships placed on the most obvious retreat path so going sideways instead of away from the line would be more likely to surprise them IMO.
A person like Cain schould never have been put in a position of authority over other people. Says a lot about the Navy.
I remember Cain telling the story of their escape to Roslin and Adama and remember seeing it in Razor with my mouth open....blew my mind what a scene that was. I thought Michelle Forbes did a phenomenal job portraying her I enjoyed every minute of it. Also shoutout to Tricia Helfer, BSG being her first big acting role and she absolutely killed it, playing several very different versions of her character. 10/10 TV show.
Early seasons were great. Last season, not so much.
Razor was really good. In retrospect, they should have incorporated its scenes as flashbacks in the later seasons. Would've made those seasons as strong as season 1.
Cain, a blood-covered pirate too afraid to die alone. Pathetic, but amazingly acted, and written to be the most detestable character I can honestly ever recall. Well done.
“struggle snuggle”
“Unable to just shut up and make out with a shotgun”
Your ability to take unpleasant concepts and relay the seriousness of it with a portion of humor has garnered a subscription from me, my good sir.
Michelle Forbes (as usual) just KILLED this role. She's a fantastic villain: scary, menacing yet you can also see how/why she got where she is and she's *almost* sympathetic. Regardless where she started from though, murdering her XO, allowing what happened to her cyclon prisoner happen, what she did to the refugees... at the end of the day, she landed on evil, justified in the name of necessity. And goddamn, did she and Adama have some great scenes. The tail end of Pegasus when Adama decides to go to war with 'I *getting* my *men*' and Bear McCreary's peerless soundtrack kicks in with the war drums... damn. Ice on my skin, every goddamn time.
Thanks!
Cain was, and arguably is the best, by the book opposite of Adama. Whereas Adama was smart, calculating and needed 100% of the info before even thinking about an action, Cain just went "Oh, a chance of a toaster bash? Let's go."
She never actually thought her plans out properly, as is comparable with the Cylon Staging battle and the Galactica Tyllium Raid. The Raid had minimal casualties, managed to actually fulfil its target and gave the fleet Tyllium.
The Staging Battle however....bloodbath. Vipers were getting shot left, right and centre, there was next to no Cylon casualties and Cain didn't even think of another approach or just retreating. She just...dumped more vipers in...like the same solution would solve a problem it didn't.
She was callous, she was inflexible, but most infamously, she was stubborn. Not in a good way, but in the real way that will give you maximum casualties for minimal reward.
I love Galactica but... I'm still waiting for the video you promised about the slug emperor of mankind...
Man, DUNE is a monster, and honestly I am scared as hell to even try. I don't spend a lot of time researching stuff for these videos because work and school doesn't give me enough time. Dune is something that demands a deep dive in all aspects and I am not ready for that.
Maybe for 20k I'll do a rough overview with steve.
@@scienceinsanity6927 ... No worries... I know Dune is a hell of a headache to resume in a single video... Damn, even in many videos... Just keep the good work... Thank you and kudos from Brazil...
Thanks for the new perspective on Cain. Never looked from your point of view.. it does make sense.
Great video can you do more about characters
I have found Cain palatable when you view her not as much as a colonial officer, and more a war goddess, this avatar of Mars that the Colonials have to evolve beyond if they hope to survive. It even makes Starbuck's eulogy make sense, 'we were safer with her." Like, yeah, being hyper violent and destructive makes you feel safe, and humanity has to evolve past it to survive the consequences of living like that for so long.
Which is why it's so depressing Adama wasn't allowed by plot contrivance to take her out in a statement.
I enjoyed your take on this. Thanks.
What the hell was that?! Spaceball one, they've gone plaid. 😲
Oh no, Cain went from suck to blow!😂
Dude you should try giving Expeditionary Force a go. The way you make the channel is how basically the tone of the books to a point.
BSG would have been better if it hadn't been directed and produced as a Sci-fi soap opera. It had potential, but it was squandered on poor focus and story choices. It's the "One Life to Live" or "All my Children" of Sci-fi. There are only about 14k humans left, and instead of focusing on survival, they squabble over politics and sex. Watch the first season, then the last episode. Thats all you need. I regret watching the full show and wish I had the time back to watch Deep Space Nine again. :P I must admit that the visual effects carry a lot of weight though.
I think it is a statement to the brilliant performance of Michelle Forbes that you have a character that you can despise so much. She truly portrayed a completely morally bankrupt character in a simple, believable fashion. There are, no doubt, such people who walk this earth at this moment. I loved how chilling her performance was in the the scene where she executes her 'executive officer' in the Razor mini series. I honestly don't understand why you have issues with this character. I have had the misfortune of making the acquaintance of people who most definitely fall into this mindset. There really are crazy, damaged people out there who have been given the authority to carry guns, and worse.
I was looking for something like this and I was not disappointed!! Cain is one of the best characters on TV ever
“If you can be this 🗡️ as long as you have to, then you’re a razor…”
She reminds me of myself before therapy in a way, pure survival mode
Thank you for not making a "Tauron = Calgary" joke.
Love the actress she is bloody but I hate the character Admiral Cain yeah you nailed it brother
The Pegasus had terrible commanding officers (Cain, Fisk, Garner, Lee), and a crew of spineless complacent cowards who enabled them. That ship deserved better.
TL:DR Cain is the Anatole Leonard of Battlestar Galactica.
I get that reference.
7:25 You do realize the Cylons are quite literally applying on the background screen the philosophy you are downplaying..... To say they learned it from us would not be much of a stretch.... Even in game, their Basestars are quite literally glass cannons. Can dish out so much damage, almost no armor...... Even the battle doctrine of the Cylon centers around the Ambush. The only thing they have towards defense is throwing more and more raiders at the problem till it goes away.
(thus the Cylon Civil War was indeed very short and pyrrhic.)
They are indeed not wrong.
I watched this right after the Pegasus one, and I think her foil to any reasonable behavior by the Galactica makes the Pegasus looking more pristine but holding despicable people make narrative sense, though it still doesn't make lore sense with the fabricator.
Interesting vid, good points, great summary!
Background sound/music a bit too loud and completely unnecessary thou :)
1. Corporate asskisser, elbower, etc. Our society IRL is already full of those. Time to start worrying...
2. Cain's actions long before she met the Galactica ended up biting humankind in the ass. If it wasn't for Pegasus Six's awful treatment on Cain's ship P6 wouldn't have detonated the nuke that eventually lead to the Cylons discovering New Caprica. Also, P6 wouldn't have assassinated Cain, therefore Lee would've never ended up in charge of the Pegasus. We'd still have a hiding spot on New Caprica AND two battlestars.
3. Lee wasn't formally trained to command a battlestar anyway, hence the way he wrecked the ship. I used to judge him for it big time but we have to realize: there were no training facilities, courses etc. since the Cylon attack on the colonies. Hell, I'm sure in ideal conditions it would've taken many more years for him to become a commander and I'm sure he would've been much better at it that way.
4. The writers fumbled the ball with Lee since right after his cool moment at the tylium asteroid. They had no idea what to do with him anymore. They made him a lawyer (WTF?) but let him get in a Viper one more time (WTF?), he was in this stupid love triangle with Kara and Dee and yes, the decision to get rid of all technology was peak WTF moment for me.
5. RIP Cain's XO. He seemed like a rational officer on board.
Getting rid of the tech makes sense when they lacked resources, researchers, and had an enemy that could exploit any network connection. Galactica was turned into a death trap when they networked the ship's computers to calculate a hyperspace path in time to escape an attack.
Almost all the Cylon models (aside from those close to Adama who didn't know they were Cylons) decided to exterminate all humans. That Six already sabotaged Pegasus when at worst, the Cylons aboard would be resurrected in a new body and would have to build more ships. This was before she was abused and tortured and had the full trust of Cain.
@@richardarriaga6271 If I have to live in Scandinavia like Tigh did, I'm bringing a portable heater. And guns. Wildlife does not care about Amish pledges.
That's what you get with a DEI hire.
Women and responsible pants does not exist in the same place.😊
LOL They actually do in today military, so you better get use to it!
@@justcallmebrian793the women I know from rather well fought for high rankings in the military don't even like women being in the military, the combat roles at the very least. Not saying they can't obviously, and I myself have trained quite a few women: it's generally not most women's place on the front lines.
Skitarii x cylon = cybermen
SPACEBALLS MENTIONED!!!!!!!!
Michelle Forbes the perfect combo of Bad ass and beauty... EFFING HOT!!!! She would of made the perfect live action Aeon Flux
And don't listen to this fanfic this boy is making up... none is lore... he just got jilted on prom night from a girl that looked similar. And venting what his blue ballz has become.
I love bonus points
to be fair offence and defiance is only good if you understand what is going on.
Yeah Everyone Calls me John Bud XD
Just wondering, where did you get the information about Cain being an average officer? I've seen several online sources stating that she used political connections to advance and the promotion over a large list of other admirals was stated on screen but I haven't seen anything saying she was average or unskilled for her rank...
I hated Cain so much it's not even funny, rage fills me every time I see her on screen.
Sad noises
She is the antheisis of lucinda cain
Spaceballs!
For the algorithm
They went plaid!
As a trained psychoanalyst, I approve of your interpretation. However, psychoanalysis is BS anyway...
She is HAL 9000
I finally got over my rational dislike for anything Abrams and started watching BSG because of this channel. Just got the episode Cain is introduced, and I immediately hate her. I'll come back later to actually watch this vid. because spoilers.
4:52 how do you come up with shit like this? That's so fucking hilarious!
Also may the Schwartz be with you ;)
This is not a critique on your disgust of the character as much as why she was "required" to be in the show as a show-case. If nothing else something Kara can look at and say, "thank the Gods I didn't go there." I say this to quell the bad writing complaints only, as much as pointing out the nuances you may have missed. If you were shooting for sarcasm, you won, but I feel you honestly think that way so....
There's a slight difference between a suicide mission, and knowing the skills of your pilots. Just about everything Starbuck has ever done is classified as a suicide mission, and as pilots themselves, both Adamas know that, but still keep sending her out anyway. She is the anchor of absolute nope violence thrown at the enemy that allows them to "regain" their humanity, civility, and pride. If Thrace and Cain had been teamed up, that asking "a bit more" than your pilots can dish out, would never have happened. What's worse is all four of them know it. Look at Adama vs Kara vs Kat compared to Cain vs Dualla. Remember, Kara realizing she could "easily" become Cain is pretty much 70% of her whole character Arc through out all of this up to the Battle of New Caprica. (getting married, caring for someone besides herself, willingly training pilots who hate her etc.) Flat out trying to "not" be anything besides a drunk weapon. Side note this is why she never stopped terrorizing the XO, she saw some of her own weaknesses in him, and couldn't stand seeing it in a (cough) Superior Officer. Its not projection if its accurate. Cain was also a knee jerk to Adama Senior, as in episode #1, he "was" Cain. He was ABOUT TO do the same thing. He didn't stop himself, Laura did. When is it no longer indoctrination as much as experience, as you say Adama was one who knew what they were up against, and you do answer fire for fire, you indeed do not take civies into a war front. Too bad the war front was hunting him. He too has executed Bridge Crew. (or will eventually but he did indeed take longer) As far as Laura is concerned, leaving those who can't jump behind is just as bad as taking their supplies first and then jumping. Except these are no longer wasted supplies. (Captain's vendetta withstanding) After their friendship had formed, William and Laura had often wonder what he would have turned into, had she not been there.
And boom... Cain drops in their collective laps in a bigger ship, and shenanigans ensue. Leading to my second point, there is a type of human warrior who will... never retreat, never surrender, many are called Marines, and even "they" are worshiped by fans because well they didn't bite off more than they could chew, or often did. Remember its only a tragedy if they die. Also it is both lauded and laughed at when Tim Allen does it.... I like to call it the Kirk attitude, and indeed Star Trek has spent entire series on the Evil we can produce if pushed too far, and I believe Picard ONLY talks about such with their plots and character development, Picard is indeed the greatest Borg Hunter. In Star Wars everyone just keeps pointing at Vader and Maul. The firm truth is, every Military of every country has Officers like Cain in them, and they are often considered heroes. Its less boot licking and more Admiralty "wanted" someone like her on a ship if the war broke out. She was a Pirate Hunter, the only action, you correctly pointed out, in a peace time setting. They also assumed someone would be there to hold the leash of their attack dog. She didn't boot lick, she offered to eat it. Bad character development is par for the course when dealing with humanity. Programmers call it GIGO, garbage in, garbage out, this isn't a problem with bad writing, the character's intelligence, or their drive to destroy the enemy. These people exist and you should take note. BSG is nothing if not an extremely thorough and exhaustive look at real human archetypes and how they respond to Armageddon, the loss of everything, their coping mechanisms, and how they overcome them and the trauma,
(or don't....)
Cain is what Rage looks like, I'm sorry if its boring or insulting to you, as I consider Razor the best thing they ever wrote. Many military folk "still" wonder where the point of no return is with the thousand yard stare.... And yes. Rage is indeed dumb, very dumb, however it doesn't make it any less real, and BSG does a reaaaaaaally good job at showing you the dumb with no apologies.
(Also, sorry for the delete and repost, I didn't mean to put that on someone else's thread)
One of my specialties is dealing with women who have rage issues. You can call me a professional punching bag. When Cain speaks of distancing herself from her children who don't understand her, in the hope that they don't turn into her, that part is very real and I've seen it a dozen times. Its the human poking out.
This was very thought out. Great essay. I enjoyed reading it and you made several great points. Yes: traumatized people can do stupid things. Doesn't mean there's no reason behind them.
Man, what's the deal with you guys and Apollo?
Easy guy to hate because reasons and compromised writing. Sprinkle in armchair tactician intensifies for maximum results.
@@TheGoddamnBacon compromised writing? They just don't know what love looks like or is. Lol
lloyd bridges was better as cain
She is a strong empowered alphabet whamyn so what did you expect?
Anyone happy with our rainbow military forces today?
lol why are you so triggered?? kinda pathetic imo
Helena Cain was simply another two-dimensional military character written by a raft of Hollywood writers with no military experience, and who foolishly think generals and admirals are the clowns they write. Fair bet these writers know nothing about real generals and admirals and only know legendary and largely media created personas that are not grounded in reality. But when you dig into real biographies of admirals and generals you find they’re nothing like the exaggerated martinets Hollywood writers love. The current crop of writers inherited their view from writers that fought in low level enlisted positions in WW2, Korea and Vietnam who had no idea what their leaders were grappling with (and lacked the security clearance to know) and who resented them; and who suffered from PTSD. Not exactly reliable narrators. And no surprise that every officer is a megalomaniac, and the hero is always a genius of a lower enlisted character with discipline problems…such characters were wish-fulfillment of writers whom were traumatized and/or disgruntled draftees or naive volunteers.
BSG warned us about Liberal women being in charge and how it will lead us all to ruins. Wish we spotted this at the time as a lot of heartache could have been avoided had we known... So say we all.. ;)
I would not say she's a liberal woman though. She is a military commissar and ran her crew like one.
At least there will never be a Hillary Clinton Presidential Library.
Dude, really? You had to make it political? I come to these videos to get away from the real world stuff. Can we please not?
@@The_Viscount Wish I could but when you look at things with new lenses, you view things differently especially knowing that Hollywood just didnt start overnight with this subtle push of strong women. BSG was known for being ahead of it's time in a lot of things, including gender swapping roles ;) And Caine's mannerism is very much in line with the marxist liberal mindset that we see today. Sorry. BSG is political in nature.
Yeah, even I am going to have to disagree with you here. You are comparing literal apples to transmissions here. Just, please, go somewhere else with this. Even if you aren't wrong, it's still inappropriate, and/or just like asking, "Would you please pass the jelly!" Now, go rewatch the series in punishment.
I totally agree. Well done, brother 👍🫡🐻
Michelle Forbes deserved better...she didn't get treated any better in the other si.fi franchise either ☠🕛🤨!
For the algorithm