Byf, you’re legit my cure for insomnia. Your videos feel like we’re all sitting next to a fire somewhere, pestering you with questions about our allies or foes and you’re the wise storyteller teaching us our history.
I second this. I love the comfort that your videos provide. I love playing the game, and reading the lore ok my own, but this is a stress-free way to enjoy the game.
My theory stems from the idea that there are 3 Elements: Void, Solar, Arc. The Light *Gives* that type of energy to the target, while The Darkness *Takes* it away. All Stasis does is *Takes* the Solar energy away. The Decay or Poison element seen in Thorn, Striga, etc. *Takes* Arc energy away, causing the target to fall apart at a molecular level. Whatever the orange energy that Rhulk and the Pyramids use is what I believe is the Darkness power that *Takes* Void. It *Takes* the mass energy, gravitational energy, and vacuum energy. What would happen if you used that on a stellar core? The star would shatter. What would happen if you used it on a planet? You could turn it upside down. This is more what I believe drives and powers The Upended. It is entirely possible that your theory holds true, that it is the Planet-Moving engine.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 right, but just because it does "poison" damage over time, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the necrotic type darkness poison
A very good point. Would also allow for there to be 3 light and 3 darkness subclasses. Each an opposite of one another. Although you could argue that decay is the opposite of solar. Which represents life. Stasis may be the opposite of arc. Representing the energy in all molecules.
@@mnn8tvdestiny184 solar and stasis are very much opposites as seen by last season's artifact mods. It was heavily implied they exists within the same spectrum. Where as a type of decay/poison makes sense to be opposite of arc, and some sort of resonance/gravity (the chetto dust) the Rhulk gives off being opposite of void.
@@mnn8tvdestiny184 That could be the case. The way I understood it, Solar is the basic element behind Thermal energy, while Arc is behind Electromagnetic and Nuclear (as in the forces binding atomic nuclei together) energy, and Void is behind Vacuum, Gravitic, and Mass energy. You Take away a target's thermal energy? You cool it down, until it crystalizes. Ergo, Stasis is opposite Solar. The main evidence I have defining Decay as the opposite of Arc is from the Necrotic Grips lore tab: > He's been babbling since it hit his central nervous system, saying, "I'm reborn," or variations thereof. I think… he almost sounds happy. Our central nervous system is a bunch of neurons firing elecrical impulses back and forth. Therefore, gradually Taking or negating the Arc energy within the nerves wouldn't kill them outright, like Stasis would (freezing and locking them up) or the opposite of Void would (rip them apart, maybe?); it may produce some weird results in the mind of the victim, like we see the unfortunate Carro go through.
@@michaelburton4471 Also, the orange energy is usually associated with objects seeming to pass through each other. Mass and Matter Energy is usually Void. (Although, you could argue that it's the Electromagnetic forces that are keeping objects from doing that normally)
The idea of the Upended absorbing power and redirecting makes perfect sense. In the final encounter the dunkers are absorbing energy and turning it back on Rhulk, it’s even how you expose his weak spots. Then the Collective Obligation’s while gimmick is absorbing a debuff and using it yourself. I’d say it checks out
I have a small theory. Remember the 2 truths and 2 lies game with Savathun? in one of them she mentions the power to move worlds becoming ours. We just so happen to have a newly masterless pyramid ship and the Upended within. if the upended is really a relocation engine, then what if we learned how to use it?
Could be like how the shard of darkness and pyramid statues gave us stasis, the Upended will give us Resonance. The power to move planets that lies within the Upended will become ours to wield in the form of new abilities tied to the darkness and Resonance.
I very much doubt that any of the Black Fleet would teach us how to use their own superweapons against them. We would have to discover how to use the thing.
To me, the "turning worlds upside down" reminded me of the Syzygy that flooded Titan and Fundament. This would also essentially flip the world, flooding the continents and any living things with a planets oceans.
I think the Upended must cause a much more immediate destruction. The Syzygy was the product of a slow process of manipulating the moons. This was more likely accomplished with the pyramid's more general gravity manipulating properties.
I still hold it was Guardians that used the Upended to defeat Rhulk. Consider where we fight him, that Guardians had to absorb his resonant power, and then redirect it back at him through the Raid mechanics. Between that and Savathûn’s Light-curse upon him, it may have been the only way we could have defeated him. He single-handed dove deep into Fundament, took a rib from the Leviathan, and subjugated the Worm Gods with ease. Rhulk is far more powerful than Oryx, The Taken King…who was until this point, arguably the most powerful foe we’ve ever fought. IMHO, we basically fought a nerfed/suppressed version of Rhulk…and even then we had use to his own power against him to even initially harm him with ours. Had he been at full strength, we’d likely had no chance against him.
My theory: the "triumvirate" refers to three aspects of darkness. Opportunity refers to the chance to rise up through the use of the sword logic and hone one's blade. Preservation refers to paring back the weak so the strong can grow, like we do in the Preservation mission by cutting down the scorn as they start to regrow like weeds. Salvation refers to the final shape, the end of the garden game where we no longer struggle between life and death. I think it's worth a deep dive through Ishtar Collective to see every usage of Opportunity and Preservation, just as we are all familiar with the usage of Salvation, so we can put any and all theories to the test.
I don’t see the Hive’s magic system being a fundamental aspect of Darkness. They would have based their power on the Worm Gods’ own abilities, which (while considerable) are much lower on the Darkness ladder than we previously thought. I doubt they would have access to primordial power, and think that Soulfire is based largely on the Sword Logic and the paracausal link between the worms and the Worm Gods. Just as Mara Sov and the Awoken’s magic, while powerful and unique, doesn’t describe an elemental aspect of the universe. You also have to consider that Stasis and Solar are diametrically opposed. Resonance may well be an opposite to Arc somehow, but it may also be a more broad type of weapon, similar to Awoken magics and soulfire. I’ve seen people posit that Decay/Poison or whatever Thorn and Ostio Striga represent might be opposite Arc, since Arc is strengthening bonds between particles and Decay weakens them. I personally think that the final Darkness element will be some form of constricting growth. The roots that sprang from Rhulk and the Caretaker on their deaths and the Egregore that overgrew and overran the Glykon feel more primordial and basic to me, and this viral growth provides a pretty stark contrast to Void.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 Just because the colors match doesn't mean it's Canon. The decay/poison spread by Thorn, Ostio Striga, and Necrotic Grips isn't soulfire and is green, so no firm conclusions there. And the Crown of Sorrows was filled to the brim with Hive magic - soulfire - already. Ghaulran was possessed by Hive magics and could easily have been channeling what was already present.
I think that the "darkness dimension" to which the Darkness removes/relocates objects might not even be a "where", but "when"; considering that we got Deepsight after communing with the Darkness again and that it gives us the ability to see into the past/memories of things, the planets that were sunset might in fact be thrown into the distant future/past. This is also corroborated by the fact that our first mission in Mars shows us that there are temporal instabilities that are superposing into the "present" Mars landscape we know. But this is just a theory... a... yes, theory.
There was also some lore a few years ago about that guardian stuck on the Almighty. He was stuck in some sort of slow motion time warp situation. Anyway his ghost couldnt rez him and it went into why it couldnt be done. And in the lore it mentioned that ghosts might be pulling copies of us from other timelines.
@@majesticmajestic7058 I'm honestly not sure what you're asking. But I was just mentioning how ghosts might be raising guardians thru time. And that could correlate with the darkness. Idk how any of it works. I just hold X lol
during the collapse Titan experienced gravitational anomalies that could be an “upending” and Cayde 6 describe the collapse as tendrils of darkness like what comes out of Rhulk when you defeat him in the raid
My theory is that The Upended will be the source from which we learn either a new Darkness subclass or the "power to move worlds" that Savathun mentions to us.
Know this is a year old comment, but looking at this in a fresh light. I think this will be how we get the third subclass that uses Resonance. Fits with what Savathun said, fits the color opposite of arc, and thematically.
So, according to theory of The Upended being a teleporter for worlds , we can assume that every pyramid ship has a something like that inside or it is a one of a kind thing that Rhulk possessed. I'm assuming that the Witness "bestowed" to Rhulk a one of a kind Darkness powers(Upended I guess) that I think in theory is a: 1) A one of kind of a power to take/ to move planets from one plane to another by turning the gravitational and magnetic fields through the space-time continuum and moves it from one point to another. That would explain the disappearance of the Mars and getting the Golden Age "time scar" in its surface 2) OR it's device that got created by Rhulk himself after he "got risen from the Deep" to become the first Disciple. And I'm assuming that it acts as a forge of re-creation, which erases everything to the ground and does not affect the owner of this device himself
It might be one of a kind because it’s from his home planet. Rhulk is the FIRST disciple of the witness, it’s likely that the black fleet turning planets upside down is actually rhulks doing.
I always thought that it was a twisted version of the original Lurbean sun harvester that Rhulk used to kill his own world. It collects and directs energies, possibly even paracausal energies, which might allow it to do things like move worlds by rending space and time just like it rent Lubrea’s blue sun.
Byf, I think your audio is lower than the commercials that UA-cam plays. So I need to turn it up when listening to you but then get my ear drums blown out when a commercial pops in. I am listening in the car but you are the only content creator this happens with.
What I find odd is that we are using darkness to fight darkness and yet somehow Savathun managed to counteract Rhulk's upended using the light. I wanna know how she did it and if we can use the principles she used.
from prophecy, I think that the nature of light and dark are just aspects of supernatural power. I imagine something like the upended uses a principle to invert things, but savathun did something to change its target from the "throne world" into "the pyramid". In a way, upending the upended. Just that she used the Light as the mechanism to do so.
I think the Upended is some kind of conversion matrix that Rhulk could have had the time to repurpose properly after Lubrae’s shattering. Not exactly sure how, but it converts energy, a lot of it, into a different form for use. Subsequently, it can hold that energy, or redirect it. But I think at this point, this all seems like valid theories that you’re presenting in the video.
Seems like it can halt or reverse the flow with normal energy. And with paracausal energy it can turn something inside out/upsidedown in a perverse way, like the Stranger things show.
I find it likely that the sapphiric converter Rhulk used on Lubrae ultimately became the upended. There is a lot of overlap between his dialogue about the Upended and the demise of Lubrae, which would imply a strong connection between the two. I think he repurposed the Lubraean technology, then augmented it with pyramid technology and even later used Xita to power it.
I believe the Upended is some kind of gravity-engine. Turning worlds upside down sound like gravity is being reversed, which would also be able to shatter stars. In the past is has also been said that the darkness has some power over gravity. Even the ability to move worlds can be explained by it. It can curve space-time to duch a degree that it creates a wormhole.
You can actually see the upended being charged up during the raid. At the start, the light coming from it is dimmer, but as you progress through the next encounters you can see it getting brighter and brighter, and at the end you can see lightning and darkness energy flowing from it.
I think you hit the nail on the head. One you said the upended might relocate worlds, I immediately thought about some of the points you brought up. It makes so much sense
On the note of 'Drown in the Deep, or rise from it' and the relation between the Ascendant Plane and the idea of the Pyramids having some sort of interdimensional relocation. Keep in mind what we learned about the Ascendant Plane during the previous season, with the leylines and how there are what are described as layers in the Plane. It's entirely possible that there are layers of the Plane so deep that Light cannot reach it, but also layers so high that Dark cannot reach it. If one reality exists, it only seems correct that the opposite is true.
I think you are correct about the function of the upended. If you think about the ending of season of arrivals when the darkness swallowed up the planets being vaulted, that could have been the upended at work. We just didn’t know it at the time
Fun idea: It won't be the Witness that is our enemy in Lighfall but another intelligence within Darkness, Calus's call to the Witness was first picked up by the Upended and that is what hides in the Scorn.
My thought on this is that the up ended will quite literally turn worlds upside down with reversing of polarities. Looking up the definition for upended I found that it means to overturn but has synonyms with elevated, lifted or upraised. So perhaps it elevates worlds to a different existence much like was mentioned by Byf. Elevating it to a new state of being and perception
Something really cool that I never would have noticed without the way you out in the voice lines. When you faded out The Upeneded after the third encounter to play the voice line, the whole thing looked like a big head
It is theorized that ghosts pull our reincarnations from alternate time lines. Maybe the upended does something similar, sending objects or worlds into a timeliness where darkness pervades all. Putting them in a dark reflection.
I think this makes alot of sense, especially considering what so many characters linked to the darkness has said before, about drowning in the deep. Personally i think they’re saying “you can’t live in a place without light” rather than anything literal. It would make alot of sense if this dimension these worlds were dragged into was the deep they always speak of. And hey, it might be a stretch, but I keep thinking of that cutscene explaining the collapse in destiny 1, where the darkness reached out from a sort of void or abyss, consuming worlds and such things.
From everything I read, this sounds about right. With the Glycon story added this was the missing piece of the puzzle that had me completely miffed to what it was but now this makes total sense. Initially I thought it was something to do with Luster. But I now think these are completely different things. In typical Bungie story telling there is always loose ends which make us wonder and theorise, I just want to have more clarity on Luster and where it plays it's part as a tool of the Witness.
Referring to the upended as a triumvirate makes me think it could be an engine for converting the three light powers of an entire planet to their 3 darkness alternatives, essentially turning it "upsidedown" but also sealing it from the light.
I think it is a conversion engine. Or at least a crucial part of it. The Upended could suck up the light in the throne world AND Mars. Then the dark could terraform and twist them to whatever it likes. I say this because at the first story mission, the Lure (Savathun’s ship in Mars’ sky) is floating above a structure that looks strikingly similar to the Cradle in Io and last I checked, the pyramids turned it and the Tree of Silver Wings to darkness. Something spooky might be happening to that place.
A colosal ontological paracasual superweapon, wielding the darkness's gravitational distortion waves as a hammer, cracking and overturning the very fabric of space around it. Now that is some scary stuff
I think you're pretty spot on actually. First time I heard Rhulk talk about the "Upended", I immediately thought of the missing planets and the weird Darkness left behind where they ought to be. My mind also leapt to another thing that solidified the theory even more for me, even though it's an entirely separate piece of fiction: the "Upside-Down" in Stranger Things. A place that is out of step with our reality, can be crossed over to, and is a darker mirror to our reality where monsters dwell. Rhulks Upended could send worlds to a place much like the Upside-Down, a place where everything would look and seem much the same, except there would be no Light there. A place meant to perfectly preserve whatever is there since the Light can never reach it to change things. Perfect. Unending. Unchanging till the heat death of the universe. The further Destiny gets along in its story the more I'm beginning to understand what the followers of the Witness mean by "Salvation", and it's honestly terrifying.
I suspect that it serves two purposes: One, it floods a target with Darkness. This to facilitate Two: separating the target into discrete pieces (potentially sequestering them in one of those dimensional anomalies in the first place), and then reconstructing them into a whole which may or may not make sense. Given the timescars riddling Mars, these pieces may be at least partially temporal in nature, in addition to their spatial qualities.
Theory makes sense seeing as something called the "Upended" is called so because it flips things, so if it'll flip a planet to the deep, which is typically down, that'll swap it up, ultimately flipping the planet upside down by dowsing it in the deep Or drowning as we've heard more often
I was thinking it might be a gravity weapon, as what is considered to be up and down generally has a base in what way gravity is pulling, so that reversing the gravity would be turning things upside-down.
I think it was also used in the collapse as a weapon to "turn Worlds upside down" because the weapon described in the collapse uses gravity in some way.
I'm gonna wager heavily on the "The Upended is Alive" message has been looming in the background of Savathun's Throne World since the raid was completed. It was activated during the raid by us somehow, and it is now "Alive". That energy pouring out of the Pyramid did not start until the raid was done, and since Bungie loves a good bit of Bad happening after we clear a raid...me thinks we may be in for a surprise next season or maybe at the end of this one. Rhulk even says that we came to conqueror but gave assistance during the raid, so that even lends to this theory also 👍🏾
I like the theory, and honestly I’d be shocked if this doesn’t come up again. They’ve put so much emphasis on it, and made sure it’s something we see front and centre, honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a “Season of the Upended/Upending” where it becomes active.
This is probably why Savathun was gathering void light back in the strike Savathuns song. She was probably trying to find a way to enter the void in order to hide from The Witness
This isn’t super related, but I’m so glad that almost all of the material from the video came from actual voice lines instead of lines of text. Bungie has really stepped it up.
I would love to see a podcast style series of you and mylen discussing the lore of destiny in an episodic series just choosing random topics or current events kind of like edptus ridiculous with bricky and DK but for destiny you both could even start a separate channel that benefits you both.
additionally, during one of the "two truths and two lies" with Savanthun, she stated "you will soon have the ability to move worlds" I'm curious if that statement may have hinted at guardians gaining control over the upended
I agree with your theory. The opportunity, preservation, and (most importantly) salvation used in the description reminds me of the 3 different descriptions we have of the force controlling the Darkness. The adjective "upended" is also appropriate for the forced relocation of planets. If Lubrae's sun were suddenly removed from its system, maybe the sudden change in gravity literally cracked Lubrae (not quite so sure about this part). Also, we're like the ultimate accidental proof of the sword logic. The Darkness should feel very conflicted about fighting us.
Given the way we captured Savathun's familiar and got more information out of it, it would be very cool if at some point we were able to speak with Rhulk. The lore about the speeder collecting items from the pyramid, and the speculation that Rhulk could be 'in' one of those containers, or that we could use deepsight on items related to him makes me hopeful that more answers will be provided over time. He's such an interesting character that having him dead almost the moment he was introduced seems like a big loss.
You notice how throughout the pyramids you explore there are lots of statues of petrified bodies of various lifeforms, some resembling humanoids, some resembling horses, etc. Perhaps "preservation" also entailed the collection of these crystallized taxidermies I mean the rooms in the raid Pyramid have names like "Acquisition", "Exhibition", and "Collection" as if it were a Natural History museum made up of extinct species killed by Rhulk/Witness
I do think the whole conversation around darkness powers and relocation is very interesting. Obviously the Darkness, the Witness, the Pyramids, and possibly the Upended have the power to relocate planetary bodies/objects/things. And in the campaign we hear about Savathun discovering the power to "Give" by reading the spaces between the Tablet of Ruin that describes the power to Take. Sav uses this power to move the Traveler into her throneworld and try to relocate the Traveler somewhere else where it can be "sealed away". That all sounds very similar to what the Upended possibly does and what we think the Witness can do. Plus the two truths/lies dialogue that talks about us getting the power to move planets and the symbol in the raid called "Give". But the raid symbol does just show a shard of pyramid tech (presumably) being given so it might not be the same "Giving" that Sav talks about. Idk, to me it seems like the power to move planets that Sav talks about and whatever the Witness does are the same things. Which would mean it's also what the Upended possibly does. Who knows!
The upended is the traveler, thats why the traveler looks exactly thew same as the "upended" above the worm after the seraph ending. With all the gold running between them. It separates worlds, it separated Destiny 1 and 2. Go play destiny 1 again and it can not come before, you can't just wave away all the stark differences as somehow accidents. There is so much intentionally opposite in these games. Reread "Triage" as well, when you watch the cartoon of Safi as well you notice massive inconsistencies with what we think we know.
It would be really cool is at some point, given that the Upended is a world transporter or involved in oir missing worlds, that we enter Rhulk's pyramid once more to use it ourselves and wrest our worlds back from their anomalies. Like Rhulk says, "A simple reversal"
I believe Byf theory is correct because when you were able to run presage the normal run said "Jump coordinates matching an errant distress signal." but on master it read "A nearby anomaly flares with dark radiation. Move quickly or fall to the shadows." normal difficulty throughout destiny 2 describes things different than the harder difficulty which shows that they give context to things where the most observant people that catches it. Just with what Master difficulty text explains why we had a time limit to be there before we drowned in the deep or in this case the ship probably fell back to the other side where it's only darkness, which may explain exactly what the egregore vegetation was which is a plant-based intelligent life that formed on the ship. hense why the guardian was impaled by those things because instead of what I thought was an outside force like the boss of the scorn on the ship controlling it the egregore saw him as an anomaly of our realm and impaled him and turned what was him into more vegetation. I just wonder why it seems dormant on the drifters ship and on the glycon when we boarded it.
Just wanna say that this theory explains why in the Arrivals first cutscene the Javelins seems to hit a pyramid but then it suddenly comes back, so maybe in the future if we control this power, Rasputin can destroy a part of the black fleet alone
It was always my interpretation that the Upended was the Sapphiric Coverter from his home of Lubrae. I thought he weaponized it and used it to reverse the energy flow back to the sapphire sun. When he describes the Upended in Preservation mission he mentions it in the same breadth as his realization of the suns of his planets and what they represent to him. Also in the raid armor lore tabs he mentions he used the coverter to destroy his world... which is also what he claims the Upended did. My theory is that the Sapphiric converter, which the traveler imparted to Lubrae, was turned into the upended when Hulk destroyed Lubrae. Remember that the converter was said to absorb energy and convert it to a usable form... much like how the Upended converts the paracausal power of Xita to power it. Lastly the mural in the pyramid has a building that looks suspiciously like and upside down Upended. In the mural it is placed on the side of the "light" sun of lubrae. Its markings and shape are very close to those seen on the upended.
Let’s also not forget that savathun said in the two truths and two lies said we would soon have the ability to move worlds. She had to know we would confront rhulk soon enough. Given the fact that we beat her and she beat him she probably thought we had a decent enough chance and would have access to the upended
I really like the relocation theory, I think the question is how selective it can be. You could absolutely cause a star to go supernova - or maybe break apart from a lack of gravity? - by selectively removing its core; either way I think this fits the idea of “shattering” a sun
The light is progressing like a green light and the Darkness is to halt like a red light or stop sign. Solar = Stasis, Void = resonance or luster and Arc = Decay.
I’m thinking that maybe the upended is just one of several that are within some of the pyramids, but that we may learn later that Savathun did play a role in some of the worlds going missing, possibly by using the upended as it is still within her throne world despite the disagreements with Rhulk. I believe that it is one of the things that has the power to send objects into a different state of existence or something along those lines, but it’s size is meant to show us that it had the same capabilities for entire celestial bodies.
Been listening to your show for a while as I get caught up and jump back into destiny from dabbling in it back in D1 and have had a great time! Thoroughly enjoy your content and exploration of the lore and finally feel I am getting to a point where I understand much more of what is happening in the destiny universe. That being said, in running with your theory about "the upended" and Rhulk's explanation of it reminds me of how Oryx put his throne world inside the Dreadnaught and it being celebrated as "Inversion day" by the Hive. Additionally, there could be some connection with that ability to the nature of the Taken. So, it could potentially be that the Upended was either the device that helped him do this or he developed one of his own. Though it doesn't rule this out in the former option, the latter of Oryx doing this on his own could put more credibility behind Savathun's statement in the Alter of Reflection that she is the one that took Mars. Anyway, at this point I may be rambling but thanks for your thought provoking theories. Looking forward to more content!
My theory: the deep, which is referenced as any place overwhelmed by darkness, is named as such because these places which are called the deep in the lore reference an actual physical place that is “the deep”. This place is an alternate dimension, or perhaps alternate universe/universes where the darkness completely snuffs out the light and only it remains. When Rhulk tells us to drown in the darkness before our final days he is referencing that when the upended activates it will transport the entire throne world and everything in it into the deep. These combined universes that have achieved their absolute finality under the control of the witness that composes the deep lack any boundaries between physical entities or things that exist within, hence the Glycon excerpts stating that everyone’s thoughts melded together with the ship and everything moves around. This would also explain why the witness references itself as multiple entities, because it is comprised of an amalgamation of all the entities that existed in the universes/timelines that were consumed before ours. This also explains why it speaks to us as ourselves when we first meet, because part of it may have been an alternate timeline version of us that was consumed into it when finality was achieved. People that “rise” from the deep are those that can endure it whilst still maintaining a semblance of themselves, leaving empowered by darkness rather than being subsumed into it, hence why the witness still maintains a physical form, as there are some dominant personalities that still retain a semblance of themselves.
If the Upended is alive If it lives up to its “namesake” Could these be extensions of the Winnower itself? I know many folks think the Witness is the biggest bad, but I’m still not convinced.
the way I see it, the gardener and the winnower became the very aspects of light and dark, the Witness is not the darkness itself, they wear it like a cloak just like savathun said. the witness is simply using the darkness for their own ends, and so we will need to kick that bastard's arse to avoid the universe from being outright wiped into nothingness. This also means destroying his precious black fleet, and I would not be surprised if the rest of those ships have their own disciples, unless said ships are autonomous.
@@xendakakorva3267 It’s also possible that the two entities mentioned in the Unveiling lorebook just because background forces of the universe, but if that lorebook is to be believed at all, then that just can’t be the case. The Witness speaks in plural, and someone or something addressed those lore entries to us speaking *as* the Darkness in the singular. I’ve also seen people posit that the Witness speaks in the plural but can also select a voice, so maybe it can mix and match personalities and tones, but that doesn’t seem consistent with the character atm. And there’s the possibility that the person speaking to us was another Disciple with a very different personality from Rhulk and the Witness, but that would require someone not afraid to assume the mantle of the Darkness itself, which isn’t the vibe I’m getting from Rhulk and he’s the only Disciple we have to go on atm.
@@Ninjewdi well heres something thats been going on in my own head, I think the witness is legit not just one person, they might be a being made of their original race that became obsessed with the darkness, and with their merging into one became outright INSANE, hence why their constantly saying that the people of Sol, OUR HOME SYSTEM, are calling out to them for salvation, which is utter bogus logic cause the witness giving us salvation means total extinction.
Byf, you’re legit my cure for insomnia. Your videos feel like we’re all sitting next to a fire somewhere, pestering you with questions about our allies or foes and you’re the wise storyteller teaching us our history.
I legit hope there's an animation like that one day
I second this. I love the comfort that your videos provide. I love playing the game, and reading the lore ok my own, but this is a stress-free way to enjoy the game.
350lb titan snuggles on Byfs lap
"Lore Daddy! Tell us a story!"
Yeah fr
Byf is our campfire warlock confirmed.
Man, when the rhulk dialogue starts at 2:45, the depth of field blur on the background makes the upended look exactly like a face
ZAVALA
My theory stems from the idea that there are 3 Elements: Void, Solar, Arc. The Light *Gives* that type of energy to the target, while The Darkness *Takes* it away. All Stasis does is *Takes* the Solar energy away. The Decay or Poison element seen in Thorn, Striga, etc. *Takes* Arc energy away, causing the target to fall apart at a molecular level.
Whatever the orange energy that Rhulk and the Pyramids use is what I believe is the Darkness power that *Takes* Void. It *Takes* the mass energy, gravitational energy, and vacuum energy. What would happen if you used that on a stellar core? The star would shatter. What would happen if you used it on a planet? You could turn it upside down.
This is more what I believe drives and powers The Upended. It is entirely possible that your theory holds true, that it is the Planet-Moving engine.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 right, but just because it does "poison" damage over time, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the necrotic type darkness poison
A very good point. Would also allow for there to be 3 light and 3 darkness subclasses. Each an opposite of one another. Although you could argue that decay is the opposite of solar. Which represents life. Stasis may be the opposite of arc. Representing the energy in all molecules.
@@mnn8tvdestiny184 solar and stasis are very much opposites as seen by last season's artifact mods. It was heavily implied they exists within the same spectrum.
Where as a type of decay/poison makes sense to be opposite of arc, and some sort of resonance/gravity (the chetto dust) the Rhulk gives off being opposite of void.
@@mnn8tvdestiny184 That could be the case. The way I understood it, Solar is the basic element behind Thermal energy, while Arc is behind Electromagnetic and Nuclear (as in the forces binding atomic nuclei together) energy, and Void is behind Vacuum, Gravitic, and Mass energy. You Take away a target's thermal energy? You cool it down, until it crystalizes. Ergo, Stasis is opposite Solar.
The main evidence I have defining Decay as the opposite of Arc is from the Necrotic Grips lore tab:
> He's been babbling since it hit his central nervous system, saying, "I'm reborn," or variations thereof. I think… he almost sounds happy.
Our central nervous system is a bunch of neurons firing elecrical impulses back and forth. Therefore, gradually Taking or negating the Arc energy within the nerves wouldn't kill them outright, like Stasis would (freezing and locking them up) or the opposite of Void would (rip them apart, maybe?); it may produce some weird results in the mind of the victim, like we see the unfortunate Carro go through.
@@michaelburton4471 Also, the orange energy is usually associated with objects seeming to pass through each other. Mass and Matter Energy is usually Void.
(Although, you could argue that it's the Electromagnetic forces that are keeping objects from doing that normally)
The idea of the Upended absorbing power and redirecting makes perfect sense. In the final encounter the dunkers are absorbing energy and turning it back on Rhulk, it’s even how you expose his weak spots. Then the Collective Obligation’s while gimmick is absorbing a debuff and using it yourself. I’d say it checks out
I have a small theory. Remember the 2 truths and 2 lies game with Savathun? in one of them she mentions the power to move worlds becoming ours. We just so happen to have a newly masterless pyramid ship and the Upended within. if the upended is really a relocation engine, then what if we learned how to use it?
Could be like how the shard of darkness and pyramid statues gave us stasis, the Upended will give us Resonance. The power to move planets that lies within the Upended will become ours to wield in the form of new abilities tied to the darkness and Resonance.
I very much doubt that any of the Black Fleet would teach us how to use their own superweapons against them. We would have to discover how to use the thing.
What if that was supposed to be the second darkness class? A gravity based one.
I do believe that can happen, but what if we can sway it to the Light just as we did with the Thorn
This! I was about to comment the same.
Not even 2 minutes into the video and byf shouts out another lore video gotta love the humility is amazing
To me, the "turning worlds upside down" reminded me of the Syzygy that flooded Titan and Fundament. This would also essentially flip the world, flooding the continents and any living things with a planets oceans.
It Literally could have caused both events too
I think the Upended must cause a much more immediate destruction. The Syzygy was the product of a slow process of manipulating the moons. This was more likely accomplished with the pyramid's more general gravity manipulating properties.
I still hold it was Guardians that used the Upended to defeat Rhulk. Consider where we fight him, that Guardians had to absorb his resonant power, and then redirect it back at him through the Raid mechanics.
Between that and Savathûn’s Light-curse upon him, it may have been the only way we could have defeated him.
He single-handed dove deep into Fundament, took a rib from the Leviathan, and subjugated the Worm Gods with ease.
Rhulk is far more powerful than Oryx, The Taken King…who was until this point, arguably the most powerful foe we’ve ever fought.
IMHO, we basically fought a nerfed/suppressed version of Rhulk…and even then we had use to his own power against him to even initially harm him with ours.
Had he been at full strength, we’d likely had no chance against him.
He was full strength during the raid he could’ve killed us as we stepped into the raid but didn’t take a serious until last stand
My theory: the "triumvirate" refers to three aspects of darkness. Opportunity refers to the chance to rise up through the use of the sword logic and hone one's blade. Preservation refers to paring back the weak so the strong can grow, like we do in the Preservation mission by cutting down the scorn as they start to regrow like weeds. Salvation refers to the final shape, the end of the garden game where we no longer struggle between life and death.
I think it's worth a deep dive through Ishtar Collective to see every usage of Opportunity and Preservation, just as we are all familiar with the usage of Salvation, so we can put any and all theories to the test.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 resonance makes sense and seems to be the element used by rhulk in the raid. But where do you see soulfire I wonder?
@@atsukana1704 the hive use soulfire. It's the green fire you see sometimes.
I don’t see the Hive’s magic system being a fundamental aspect of Darkness. They would have based their power on the Worm Gods’ own abilities, which (while considerable) are much lower on the Darkness ladder than we previously thought. I doubt they would have access to primordial power, and think that Soulfire is based largely on the Sword Logic and the paracausal link between the worms and the Worm Gods. Just as Mara Sov and the Awoken’s magic, while powerful and unique, doesn’t describe an elemental aspect of the universe.
You also have to consider that Stasis and Solar are diametrically opposed. Resonance may well be an opposite to Arc somehow, but it may also be a more broad type of weapon, similar to Awoken magics and soulfire. I’ve seen people posit that Decay/Poison or whatever Thorn and Ostio Striga represent might be opposite Arc, since Arc is strengthening bonds between particles and Decay weakens them.
I personally think that the final Darkness element will be some form of constricting growth. The roots that sprang from Rhulk and the Caretaker on their deaths and the Egregore that overgrew and overran the Glykon feel more primordial and basic to me, and this viral growth provides a pretty stark contrast to Void.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 Just because the colors match doesn't mean it's Canon. The decay/poison spread by Thorn, Ostio Striga, and Necrotic Grips isn't soulfire and is green, so no firm conclusions there.
And the Crown of Sorrows was filled to the brim with Hive magic - soulfire - already. Ghaulran was possessed by Hive magics and could easily have been channeling what was already present.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 hey here we are 2 months later and we found that crown!
I think that the "darkness dimension" to which the Darkness removes/relocates objects might not even be a "where", but "when"; considering that we got Deepsight after communing with the Darkness again and that it gives us the ability to see into the past/memories of things, the planets that were sunset might in fact be thrown into the distant future/past. This is also corroborated by the fact that our first mission in Mars shows us that there are temporal instabilities that are superposing into the "present" Mars landscape we know.
But this is just a theory... a... yes, theory.
There was also some lore a few years ago about that guardian stuck on the Almighty. He was stuck in some sort of slow motion time warp situation. Anyway his ghost couldnt rez him and it went into why it couldnt be done. And in the lore it mentioned that ghosts might be pulling copies of us from other timelines.
@@EdwardBoicourtIV But the orange flow was cabal tech, and how would the thanatonauts or warlocks that died to learn the secrets work?
@@majesticmajestic7058 I'm honestly not sure what you're asking. But I was just mentioning how ghosts might be raising guardians thru time. And that could correlate with the darkness. Idk how any of it works. I just hold X lol
I dont think viewing memories means we can access a pocket of the past, sorry
@@NorthernHarker it seems to be a lot more than just “viewing” memories with deep sight, because you are physically able to interact with it.
Destiny Lore Vault is run by a friend of mine, it is nice to see the shout-out.
Eyyyyy, found you!
during the collapse Titan experienced gravitational anomalies that could be an “upending” and Cayde 6 describe the collapse as tendrils of darkness like what comes out of Rhulk when you defeat him in the raid
Now at 10:21 isn’t the only time i‘ve seen this but why does the blurred Upended look like a face? That’s kinda creepy
And now I can't unsee it good lord that is creepy
It kinda looks like the witness
I thought that was creepy zavala
@@johngancarcik5682 with a large nose as well lol
My theory is that The Upended will be the source from which we learn either a new Darkness subclass or the "power to move worlds" that Savathun mentions to us.
No theory is stupid sorry
@@thatoneguy1553 So right. There's absolutely no precedent for us gaining darkness power from a pyramid ship.
Know this is a year old comment, but looking at this in a fresh light. I think this will be how we get the third subclass that uses Resonance. Fits with what Savathun said, fits the color opposite of arc, and thematically.
So, according to theory of The Upended being a teleporter for worlds , we can assume that every pyramid ship has a something like that inside or it is a one of a kind thing that Rhulk possessed.
I'm assuming that the Witness "bestowed" to Rhulk a one of a kind Darkness powers(Upended I guess) that I think in theory is a:
1) A one of kind of a power to take/ to move planets from one plane to another by turning the gravitational and magnetic fields through the space-time continuum and moves it from one point to another. That would explain the disappearance of the Mars and getting the Golden Age "time scar" in its surface
2) OR it's device that got created by Rhulk himself after he "got risen from the Deep" to become the first Disciple. And I'm assuming that it acts as a forge of re-creation, which erases everything to the ground and does not affect the owner of this device himself
It might be one of a kind because it’s from his home planet. Rhulk is the FIRST disciple of the witness, it’s likely that the black fleet turning planets upside down is actually rhulks doing.
I always thought that it was a twisted version of the original Lurbean sun harvester that Rhulk used to kill his own world. It collects and directs energies, possibly even paracausal energies, which might allow it to do things like move worlds by rending space and time just like it rent Lubrea’s blue sun.
Byf, I think your audio is lower than the commercials that UA-cam plays. So I need to turn it up when listening to you but then get my ear drums blown out when a commercial pops in. I am listening in the car but you are the only content creator this happens with.
The sequence of Rhulk saying "upended" was hilarious. 10/10
What I find odd is that we are using darkness to fight darkness and yet somehow Savathun managed to counteract Rhulk's upended using the light. I wanna know how she did it and if we can use the principles she used.
from prophecy, I think that the nature of light and dark are just aspects of supernatural power. I imagine something like the upended uses a principle to invert things, but savathun did something to change its target from the "throne world" into "the pyramid". In a way, upending the upended. Just that she used the Light as the mechanism to do so.
I think the Upended is some kind of conversion matrix that Rhulk could have had the time to repurpose properly after Lubrae’s shattering. Not exactly sure how, but it converts energy, a lot of it, into a different form for use. Subsequently, it can hold that energy, or redirect it. But I think at this point, this all seems like valid theories that you’re presenting in the video.
Seems like it can halt or reverse the flow with normal energy. And with paracausal energy it can turn something inside out/upsidedown in a perverse way, like the Stranger things show.
I find it likely that the sapphiric converter Rhulk used on Lubrae ultimately became the upended. There is a lot of overlap between his dialogue about the Upended and the demise of Lubrae, which would imply a strong connection between the two. I think he repurposed the Lubraean technology, then augmented it with pyramid technology and even later used Xita to power it.
i love listening to rhulk talk its so...gentle yet agressive.
I believe the Upended is some kind of gravity-engine. Turning worlds upside down sound like gravity is being reversed, which would also be able to shatter stars. In the past is has also been said that the darkness has some power over gravity. Even the ability to move worlds can be explained by it. It can curve space-time to duch a degree that it creates a wormhole.
It was mentioned by Savathuun in her "2 truths, 2 lies" dialogue, that we would soon have the power to move worlds
I want to take a moment to appreciate that even Savathûn is tired of hearing Rhulk say "the UpENdeD" all the time.
You can actually see the upended being charged up during the raid. At the start, the light coming from it is dimmer, but as you progress through the next encounters you can see it getting brighter and brighter, and at the end you can see lightning and darkness energy flowing from it.
I think you hit the nail on the head. One you said the upended might relocate worlds, I immediately thought about some of the points you brought up. It makes so much sense
On the note of 'Drown in the Deep, or rise from it' and the relation between the Ascendant Plane and the idea of the Pyramids having some sort of interdimensional relocation. Keep in mind what we learned about the Ascendant Plane during the previous season, with the leylines and how there are what are described as layers in the Plane.
It's entirely possible that there are layers of the Plane so deep that Light cannot reach it, but also layers so high that Dark cannot reach it. If one reality exists, it only seems correct that the opposite is true.
I hope that at one point we actually do something with the light and dark other than kill.
I think you are correct about the function of the upended. If you think about the ending of season of arrivals when the darkness swallowed up the planets being vaulted, that could have been the upended at work. We just didn’t know it at the time
Fun idea: It won't be the Witness that is our enemy in Lighfall but another intelligence within Darkness, Calus's call to the Witness was first picked up by the Upended and that is what hides in the Scorn.
Would be interesting if we found a way to use The Upended to bring back the other worlds. Turn it into a tool we can use
Going to have Rhulk saying "the Upended" echoing in my head for at least a week now.
so around 2:44 blurring that box makes it look like some creepy face. had to mention that cuz now i cant unsee it
My thought on this is that the up ended will quite literally turn worlds upside down with reversing of polarities. Looking up the definition for upended I found that it means to overturn but has synonyms with elevated, lifted or upraised. So perhaps it elevates worlds to a different existence much like was mentioned by Byf. Elevating it to a new state of being and perception
Something really cool that I never would have noticed without the way you out in the voice lines. When you faded out The Upeneded after the third encounter to play the voice line, the whole thing looked like a big head
One of Savathun's "Two Lies / Two Truths" is the guardian learning the power to move worlds. Sounds like this upended is this power.
It is theorized that ghosts pull our reincarnations from alternate time lines. Maybe the upended does something similar, sending objects or worlds into a timeliness where darkness pervades all. Putting them in a dark reflection.
I love how when you fade the image of the Upended to play the dialogues, the Upended starts looking like a face watching you.
Starting at 2:45, the blur makes me see a face (a very creepy one at that) in place of "The Upended" (creepy Rhulk voice)
So true
First of all: awesome work! Second, just as a heads-up: the link to Myelin's channel & video is missing from the description.
I think this makes alot of sense, especially considering what so many characters linked to the darkness has said before, about drowning in the deep. Personally i think they’re saying “you can’t live in a place without light” rather than anything literal. It would make alot of sense if this dimension these worlds were dragged into was the deep they always speak of. And hey, it might be a stretch, but I keep thinking of that cutscene explaining the collapse in destiny 1, where the darkness reached out from a sort of void or abyss, consuming worlds and such things.
Opportunity: Traveler
Preservation: Veil
Salvation: Witness
From everything I read, this sounds about right. With the Glycon story added this was the missing piece of the puzzle that had me completely miffed to what it was but now this makes total sense.
Initially I thought it was something to do with Luster. But I now think these are completely different things. In typical Bungie story telling there is always loose ends which make us wonder and theorise, I just want to have more clarity on Luster and where it plays it's part as a tool of the Witness.
2:45 the Upended blurred in the background looks vaguely like a face. It is likely just a meaningless coincidence, but it is interesting.
Anyone else see a giant face in the Upended when Byf plays the voice lines?
Referring to the upended as a triumvirate makes me think it could be an engine for converting the three light powers of an entire planet to their 3 darkness alternatives, essentially turning it "upsidedown" but also sealing it from the light.
Holy shit, 2:45. That machine blurred is a creepy face...
I think it is a conversion engine. Or at least a crucial part of it. The Upended could suck up the light in the throne world AND Mars. Then the dark could terraform and twist them to whatever it likes.
I say this because at the first story mission, the Lure (Savathun’s ship in Mars’ sky) is floating above a structure that looks strikingly similar to the Cradle in Io and last I checked, the pyramids turned it and the Tree of Silver Wings to darkness.
Something spooky might be happening to that place.
if you pause at somewhere from 3:00 to 3:30 , while the image of the Upended is blurred, you can see a silhouette of a face. At 3:25 it is more clear.
A colosal ontological paracasual superweapon, wielding the darkness's gravitational distortion waves as a hammer, cracking and overturning the very fabric of space around it. Now that is some scary stuff
It makes sense that the upended is a tool that the witness is proud of - the witness raid symbol has the upended in its hands, although split in two.
I think you're pretty spot on actually. First time I heard Rhulk talk about the "Upended", I immediately thought of the missing planets and the weird Darkness left behind where they ought to be. My mind also leapt to another thing that solidified the theory even more for me, even though it's an entirely separate piece of fiction: the "Upside-Down" in Stranger Things. A place that is out of step with our reality, can be crossed over to, and is a darker mirror to our reality where monsters dwell. Rhulks Upended could send worlds to a place much like the Upside-Down, a place where everything would look and seem much the same, except there would be no Light there. A place meant to perfectly preserve whatever is there since the Light can never reach it to change things. Perfect. Unending. Unchanging till the heat death of the universe.
The further Destiny gets along in its story the more I'm beginning to understand what the followers of the Witness mean by "Salvation", and it's honestly terrifying.
I suspect that it serves two purposes: One, it floods a target with Darkness. This to facilitate Two: separating the target into discrete pieces (potentially sequestering them in one of those dimensional anomalies in the first place), and then reconstructing them into a whole which may or may not make sense. Given the timescars riddling Mars, these pieces may be at least partially temporal in nature, in addition to their spatial qualities.
Theory makes sense seeing as something called the "Upended" is called so because it flips things, so if it'll flip a planet to the deep, which is typically down, that'll swap it up, ultimately flipping the planet upside down by dowsing it in the deep
Or drowning as we've heard more often
I was thinking it might be a gravity weapon, as what is considered to be up and down generally has a base in what way gravity is pulling, so that reversing the gravity would be turning things upside-down.
2:50 when you look at the Upended in the blurred background, you can see that it forms a face
I noticed that.
I love that intro with every time Rhulk said *THE UPENDED* it's becoming the next *SYLOK, THE DEFILED!!* 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think it was also used in the collapse as a weapon to "turn Worlds upside down" because the weapon described in the collapse uses gravity in some way.
I'm gonna wager heavily on the "The Upended is Alive" message has been looming in the background of Savathun's Throne World since the raid was completed. It was activated during the raid by us somehow, and it is now "Alive". That energy pouring out of the Pyramid did not start until the raid was done, and since Bungie loves a good bit of Bad happening after we clear a raid...me thinks we may be in for a surprise next season or maybe at the end of this one. Rhulk even says that we came to conqueror but gave assistance during the raid, so that even lends to this theory also 👍🏾
The voiceline about Rhulk destroying Lubrae is chilling.
I like the theory, and honestly I’d be shocked if this doesn’t come up again. They’ve put so much emphasis on it, and made sure it’s something we see front and centre, honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a “Season of the Upended/Upending” where it becomes active.
I could see a "Season of the Upended" coming in the Final Shape. Would fit well there.
2:44 scared the shit out of me, when the big block gets blurred for the audio clip it looks like a face
This is probably why Savathun was gathering void light back in the strike Savathuns song. She was probably trying to find a way to enter the void in order to hide from The Witness
This isn’t super related, but I’m so glad that almost all of the material from the video came from actual voice lines instead of lines of text. Bungie has really stepped it up.
I would love to see a podcast style series of you and mylen discussing the lore of destiny in an episodic series just choosing random topics or current events kind of like edptus ridiculous with bricky and DK but for destiny you both could even start a separate channel that benefits you both.
Byf's loadouts are the real hero of these videos, dude is the avatar of anti-meta
2:54 the block looks like a face 👀
That's scary wtf lmao
Huh the upended actually looks like it has a face, with all those glowing red lines on it.
The drowndrowndrown line reminds me of the fine text on one of the Garden of Salvation weapons
Anybody else get creeped out looking at the upended when it was blurred behind the waveform? Looked like a face staring right at me :(
It would be so cool if rasputin was the one to control it in the future.
Don't give him ideas
All makes sense! Especially with the "two lies two truths" "You will soon be able to displace worlds" (or whatever she said)
I think the upended was used during the collapse, it sounds like the weapon cayde spoke of
additionally, during one of the "two truths and two lies" with Savanthun, she stated "you will soon have the ability to move worlds" I'm curious if that statement may have hinted at guardians gaining control over the upended
I agree with your theory. The opportunity, preservation, and (most importantly) salvation used in the description reminds me of the 3 different descriptions we have of the force controlling the Darkness. The adjective "upended" is also appropriate for the forced relocation of planets. If Lubrae's sun were suddenly removed from its system, maybe the sudden change in gravity literally cracked Lubrae (not quite so sure about this part).
Also, we're like the ultimate accidental proof of the sword logic. The Darkness should feel very conflicted about fighting us.
Ok, wild theory. What if his home world's black sun is connected to the upended?
Given the way we captured Savathun's familiar and got more information out of it, it would be very cool if at some point we were able to speak with Rhulk. The lore about the speeder collecting items from the pyramid, and the speculation that Rhulk could be 'in' one of those containers, or that we could use deepsight on items related to him makes me hopeful that more answers will be provided over time. He's such an interesting character that having him dead almost the moment he was introduced seems like a big loss.
You notice how throughout the pyramids you explore there are lots of statues of petrified bodies of various lifeforms, some resembling humanoids, some resembling horses, etc.
Perhaps "preservation" also entailed the collection of these crystallized taxidermies
I mean the rooms in the raid Pyramid have names like "Acquisition", "Exhibition", and "Collection" as if it were a Natural History museum made up of extinct species killed by Rhulk/Witness
2:53 the upended looks like two faces looking at each other. Like the album art for the Division Bell by Pink Floyd
I wonder if every pyramid ship has an upended within it
I do think the whole conversation around darkness powers and relocation is very interesting. Obviously the Darkness, the Witness, the Pyramids, and possibly the Upended have the power to relocate planetary bodies/objects/things. And in the campaign we hear about Savathun discovering the power to "Give" by reading the spaces between the Tablet of Ruin that describes the power to Take. Sav uses this power to move the Traveler into her throneworld and try to relocate the Traveler somewhere else where it can be "sealed away". That all sounds very similar to what the Upended possibly does and what we think the Witness can do. Plus the two truths/lies dialogue that talks about us getting the power to move planets and the symbol in the raid called "Give". But the raid symbol does just show a shard of pyramid tech (presumably) being given so it might not be the same "Giving" that Sav talks about. Idk, to me it seems like the power to move planets that Sav talks about and whatever the Witness does are the same things. Which would mean it's also what the Upended possibly does. Who knows!
The upended is the traveler, thats why the traveler looks exactly thew same as the "upended" above the worm after the seraph ending. With all the gold running between them. It separates worlds, it separated Destiny 1 and 2. Go play destiny 1 again and it can not come before, you can't just wave away all the stark differences as somehow accidents. There is so much intentionally opposite in these games. Reread "Triage" as well, when you watch the cartoon of Safi as well you notice massive inconsistencies with what we think we know.
It would be really cool is at some point, given that the Upended is a world transporter or involved in oir missing worlds, that we enter Rhulk's pyramid once more to use it ourselves and wrest our worlds back from their anomalies. Like Rhulk says, "A simple reversal"
Did anyone else notice that when the video blurs in the background for Rhulk to talk that the Upended looks like his face?
I believe Byf theory is correct because when you were able to run presage the normal run said "Jump coordinates matching an errant distress signal." but on master it read "A nearby anomaly flares with dark radiation. Move quickly or fall to the shadows." normal difficulty throughout destiny 2 describes things different than the harder difficulty which shows that they give context to things where the most observant people that catches it. Just with what Master difficulty text explains why we had a time limit to be there before we drowned in the deep or in this case the ship probably fell back to the other side where it's only darkness, which may explain exactly what the egregore vegetation was which is a plant-based intelligent life that formed on the ship. hense why the guardian was impaled by those things because instead of what I thought was an outside force like the boss of the scorn on the ship controlling it the egregore saw him as an anomaly of our realm and impaled him and turned what was him into more vegetation. I just wonder why it seems dormant on the drifters ship and on the glycon when we boarded it.
Myelin lore dissection + Lore Daddy voiceover = Massive Lorection
I do love that even the witch queen goes "oh my god shut up about the upended already"
Anyone else notice that when the Upended gets blurred out it turns into a face?
I definitely agree, it seems like the Upended forces planets or areas into the Dark, or the Deep
The blurry shot of the Upended behind the DLV dialog, it uncannily resembles a face.
7:24 the blurred upended looks like a face :3 spooky
This description also reminds me of the Deathsingers song. A song designed to kill everything but can be targeted at only specific targets
Just wanna say that this theory explains why in the Arrivals first cutscene the Javelins seems to hit a pyramid but then it suddenly comes back, so maybe in the future if we control this power, Rasputin can destroy a part of the black fleet alone
It was always my interpretation that the Upended was the Sapphiric Coverter from his home of Lubrae. I thought he weaponized it and used it to reverse the energy flow back to the sapphire sun. When he describes the Upended in Preservation mission he mentions it in the same breadth as his realization of the suns of his planets and what they represent to him. Also in the raid armor lore tabs he mentions he used the coverter to destroy his world... which is also what he claims the Upended did. My theory is that the Sapphiric converter, which the traveler imparted to Lubrae, was turned into the upended when Hulk destroyed Lubrae. Remember that the converter was said to absorb energy and convert it to a usable form... much like how the Upended converts the paracausal power of Xita to power it. Lastly the mural in the pyramid has a building that looks suspiciously like and upside down Upended. In the mural it is placed on the side of the "light" sun of lubrae. Its markings and shape are very close to those seen on the upended.
Let’s also not forget that savathun said in the two truths and two lies said we would soon have the ability to move worlds. She had to know we would confront rhulk soon enough. Given the fact that we beat her and she beat him she probably thought we had a decent enough chance and would have access to the upended
I really like the relocation theory, I think the question is how selective it can be. You could absolutely cause a star to go supernova - or maybe break apart from a lack of gravity? - by selectively removing its core; either way I think this fits the idea of “shattering” a sun
The light is progressing like a green light and the Darkness is to halt like a red light or stop sign. Solar = Stasis, Void = resonance or luster and Arc = Decay.
I’m thinking that maybe the upended is just one of several that are within some of the pyramids, but that we may learn later that Savathun did play a role in some of the worlds going missing, possibly by using the upended as it is still within her throne world despite the disagreements with Rhulk. I believe that it is one of the things that has the power to send objects into a different state of existence or something along those lines, but it’s size is meant to show us that it had the same capabilities for entire celestial bodies.
Been listening to your show for a while as I get caught up and jump back into destiny from dabbling in it back in D1 and have had a great time! Thoroughly enjoy your content and exploration of the lore and finally feel I am getting to a point where I understand much more of what is happening in the destiny universe. That being said, in running with your theory about "the upended" and Rhulk's explanation of it reminds me of how Oryx put his throne world inside the Dreadnaught and it being celebrated as "Inversion day" by the Hive. Additionally, there could be some connection with that ability to the nature of the Taken. So, it could potentially be that the Upended was either the device that helped him do this or he developed one of his own. Though it doesn't rule this out in the former option, the latter of Oryx doing this on his own could put more credibility behind Savathun's statement in the Alter of Reflection that she is the one that took Mars. Anyway, at this point I may be rambling but thanks for your thought provoking theories. Looking forward to more content!
My theory: the deep, which is referenced as any place overwhelmed by darkness, is named as such because these places which are called the deep in the lore reference an actual physical place that is “the deep”. This place is an alternate dimension, or perhaps alternate universe/universes where the darkness completely snuffs out the light and only it remains. When Rhulk tells us to drown in the darkness before our final days he is referencing that when the upended activates it will transport the entire throne world and everything in it into the deep. These combined universes that have achieved their absolute finality under the control of the witness that composes the deep lack any boundaries between physical entities or things that exist within, hence the Glycon excerpts stating that everyone’s thoughts melded together with the ship and everything moves around. This would also explain why the witness references itself as multiple entities, because it is comprised of an amalgamation of all the entities that existed in the universes/timelines that were consumed before ours. This also explains why it speaks to us as ourselves when we first meet, because part of it may have been an alternate timeline version of us that was consumed into it when finality was achieved. People that “rise” from the deep are those that can endure it whilst still maintaining a semblance of themselves, leaving empowered by darkness rather than being subsumed into it, hence why the witness still maintains a physical form, as there are some dominant personalities that still retain a semblance of themselves.
If the Upended is alive
If it lives up to its “namesake”
Could these be extensions of the Winnower itself? I know many folks think the Witness is the biggest bad, but I’m still not convinced.
the way I see it, the gardener and the winnower became the very aspects of light and dark, the Witness is not the darkness itself, they wear it like a cloak just like savathun said.
the witness is simply using the darkness for their own ends, and so we will need to kick that bastard's arse to avoid the universe from being outright wiped into nothingness.
This also means destroying his precious black fleet, and I would not be surprised if the rest of those ships have their own disciples, unless said ships are autonomous.
@@xendakakorva3267 It’s also possible that the two entities mentioned in the Unveiling lorebook just because background forces of the universe, but if that lorebook is to be believed at all, then that just can’t be the case. The Witness speaks in plural, and someone or something addressed those lore entries to us speaking *as* the Darkness in the singular.
I’ve also seen people posit that the Witness speaks in the plural but can also select a voice, so maybe it can mix and match personalities and tones, but that doesn’t seem consistent with the character atm. And there’s the possibility that the person speaking to us was another Disciple with a very different personality from Rhulk and the Witness, but that would require someone not afraid to assume the mantle of the Darkness itself, which isn’t the vibe I’m getting from Rhulk and he’s the only Disciple we have to go on atm.
@@Ninjewdi well heres something thats been going on in my own head, I think the witness is legit not just one person, they might be a being made of their original race that became obsessed with the darkness, and with their merging into one became outright INSANE, hence why their constantly saying that the people of Sol, OUR HOME SYSTEM, are calling out to them for salvation, which is utter bogus logic cause the witness giving us salvation means total extinction.