My favorite part was how Eido constantly begged us to free Eramis, just for Eramis to tell her that her potions are a joke and she’s a disgrace to Sjur Eido’s name.
I definitely feel like Eido releasing Eremis was totally on brand with what we've done before. Like we've made so many deals similar to this one that it didn't even phase me.
@@Icebuerger4016 agreed. As a hunter from D1 and literally only a hunter. We kinda do what we want. A little renegade if you will. But we'll see it through.
I think that was my favourite seasonal/episodic cutscene they've ever put out. My jaw hit the floor when the Ketches came out of warp speed and the camera panned to Riis under assault from the Black Fleet with that hymn playing. Cinema.
I don’t think Erasmis stil sees herself as an enemy of house light, she wants her people to continue but feels she cannot go with them. She states plenty of times that she expects to be executed and basically gave herself up for her people to integrate into house light.
@@ivanreyes371 because she was a light bearer. If they destroyed her body, Immaru could bring her back next second But I agree that keeping Skolas body is something that Mara would do
I feel stupid I didn't think of this myself. Not cause ego, but cause it makes perfect sense. Could have been gradual too. Act 1 some public events are scornified. Act 2 some fallen v scorn fights in patrol areas. Act 3 scorn everywhere the fallen once were, save maybe Europa cause house salvation are strong enough to put up a fight. Would have been mega cool. Destiny: almost good.
I think Eido's decision came more from desperation than naivety. That's the whole vibe I got from the Fieldworks lore, so I can understand why the Guardian assisted with Eramis "escape". It clear she's grasping at straws for anything tha might help her father. Freeing Eramis felt in part to me because Eido believes in the good inside Eramis and that would in turn also help her cure Mithrax in the long run.
Meanwhile my ass was thinking about my Guardian, ducking and diving between cover trying to get to Eramis' cell. Everyone else sees him and thinks he's crazy. And on top of that, he's humming the Mission Impossible theme while doing this.
Despite what Joe Blackburn says, this game isn’t an RPG. An RPG would give you the option to fist-bump Nimbus, it would give you the option to free Eramis, not force you to do these things. And oddly enough the D1 writers were aware of this ludonarrative dissonance. My favorite Destiny 1 Grimoire card is the one where a Ghost Posessed by the Witness in the Black Garden speaks to a Guardian “You are a Dead Thing, made by a Dead power, in the Shape of the Dead. All you will ever do is k!ll.” Because it’s true. We never had any choices in this game, and the D1 writers knew that. It’s a self-aware critique almost on the level of “Would you kindly?”
you scared THE FUCK out of me when you said "Even the spider in his last moments when he's talking to us at the end of Act 2..." I thought he died sacrificing himself for Eido and spider dying would have made me tweak in ways that can only be compared to when rasputin died.
i literally went to look up "destiny 2 spider death" because i'm not playing the game anymore and thankfully everything was just dialogue about his and mars's beef
For how Revanant will end, the obvious direction is Misraaks gets the Echo and it cures all his problems. The somewhat obvious twist is Eido gets it and uses it to cure him. The fascinating ending is that Eramis gets it and can't save Misraaks, so she freezes him in stasis until they can find a cure, leaving her as the de-facto kell of kells because Misraaks and Fikrul will be out of the picture. Meaning that Eramis has a very powerful source of paracausal power and leads the Eliksni, so the Vanguard has to work with her in a tenuous alliance, Since Mara would be the only one who could challenge her. From there, you could take us into the next saga. Ala: Eramis and Caital talk and propose to the vanguard that we leave sol to reclaim both Torabatl and Riis. Eido would be on board since the whole point of the episode is that a cure for Misraaks only existed on Riis. Much better than the alrernatives in my opinion, Misraaks has no interest in changing the status quo, and Eido isn't ready for leadership, plus they're both solidally allied with us. Things might not play out exactly like this, but if the Echo does happen to have the power to banish Nezarec, that will feel cheap. Also, wow... other people's perception of Eramis really differs from my own, I've been demanding her release since act one and thought it took way too long. Everyone keeps talking about the terrible things she's done to humanity, that's accurrate, but Humanity has done just as many if not more terrible things to the Eliksni, she does not owe us anything. Honestly if Destiny did allow choices, I'd join her house and say sod Misraaks, house light is essentually decideing being second class citizens is better than being murderred on sight, it's true but it's still not a good solution.
Honestly, I wasn't surprised by Eido's plan. You're right, she's not dumb, BUT, she has shown to be exactly like a very particular reckless Awoken who is now Hunter Vanguard. She's headstrong and reckless like Crow, in my opinion, and just like Crow, she is prone to not so great ideas born out of a reckless naïveté when she gets an idea in her head. Let us not forget that she ran off by herself to fetch one of the relics during Season of Plunder. I had a feeling she was going to try and bust Eramis out the second she started showing irritation at Eramis being imprisoned to start with, and that feeling grew as she grew more irritated and desperate with each Fieldwork mission. My only complaint is I honestly would've rather stumbled upon her having released Eramis rather than us helping, because yeah, that did feel a little odd (though my Guardian would've done it out of sheer "you're going to do it anyway, so I might as well" resignation). Given her outburst at Crow earlier in the act, I expected her to take agency and just do things herself out of "None of you are doing enough" frustration.
I can't say for certain of course, but I want to believe the singer is Eramis' mate, and that the song will play a part in it. Maybe, now that she's free, she'll make a go at getting her hands on the Echo, but when she hears that song something changes in her, and either she decides to help Eido, or ends up helping us directly. It's also possible she ends her own life or dies some other way and becomes the first Fallen Lightbearer.
That would be so sad since Eramis sent her mate and children away to specifically avoid The Witness and it ends up taking them and they become the Echo 🥺
@Icebuerger4016 I feel like The Witness likely had information on everyone that served it and knew how to hurt them. We saw this before when they turned old House Salvation leaders into Scorn when she failed before.
@@Noblesix84 my main issue with this is that we know the echoes are based on the memories of those related to the witness, the hive, and any disciples who destroyed their races, their cultures, their people's. The echo of command is the memory of Te'Qal of the Qugu people. And Arthrys, while old enough, was not someone who died during the Whirlwind, and most certainly wouldn't have been someone that the witness or anything serving under it would have an interest in. However, I think there is an eliksni with that potential, that being Chelchis. We know that Chelchis personally stood against Oryx, and still acts as a powerful memory for the eliksni, being the reason many of them were able to escape Riis during the whirlwind. And, with recent lore from The Garden-Way revealing that Chelchis was actually female, it's quite possible that the dirge was one she created to help the eliksni escape.
@UltraLG2444 I do see where you're coming from, it's a very good point, however I would argue that The Witness or one of his agents, even if they didn't know where she was or were able to reach her, would have had interest in her. In previous seasons we've seen The Witness turn former leaders of House Salvation into Scorn in order to spite and/or punish Eramis for her failures. If he's willing to do that then I absolutely believe they would use Arthrys against Eramis if they had the ability to do so.
Eido wants to save her father, having lost my grandfather who raised me, it’s understandable for Eido to try anything even letting Eremis go for even a chance to save him
for a bit there i thought byf was just going to gloss over how incredible that cutscene was, but i'm glad he recognized it at the end. this wasn't just an all-timer for destiny, it was all-timer for bungie in general. just absolutely spectacular!
I assumed that Chelchis was the Herald of Finality in the Salvations edge raid due to her staying back during the whirlwind. I also think Variks would have recognized her voice due to her being one of the major Kells during that time.
@@DaSlimyGoatI take it to Variks being really old since it’s not established if Eliksni can have some kind of dementia. I also heard it’s Athrys, Eramis’s mate.
I very much agree that my guardian wouldn’t have freed Eramis. However, I’m not sure if it’s just the way I played through the story and fieldwork, but Eido’s choice made perfect sense to me. She’s been getting increasingly desperate and she’s grasping at straws to help Mithrax, and all the one-to-one chats she had with eramis in the past have given her some blinders that she can put on when she feels like she has no other options to turn to. Plus Eramis being willing to come quietly in the beginning of this season prolly helped her seem more cooperative. Eido’s choice didn’t sound like naïveté to me as much as desperate and poorly founded hope from someone who has been consistently failing and feels like she has no other recourse.
Going off the point you made about showing the things going on like the army of scorn growing, why don't we get Red War style cutscenes anymore showing us the story as it evolves like the scenes with the speaker and ghaul? It's like they don't give us anything unless our guardian is there present in the scene unless it's one of those sketched throwback
We’ve made deals with Mara and Savathun, we’ve wielded darkness and more. I am not bothered nor surprised by Eido choosing to put trust in Eramis. She’s up against a wall and out of ideas, so what were the alternatives?
Honestly, to me, it read as the apex of eido's desperation. She wants her father to live, she needs her people to survive, and theres just nothing else she can do. Its a insane move to try to save a loved one.
@@joaorugeri9885 there's also an extremely dark and dramatic exchange between eido and her dad in one of the research side quests. it feels like he's having a panic attack, and he yells at his own daughter... it's pretty frightening, and i kinda wish that was part of the main story. so yeah i totally get it.
I think that the issue with Eido's perceived naiive choice re: Eramis's release is that she's apparently been extensively talking with her since her capture...but we've never really heard those conversations. There's some fieldwork dialogue and one onslaught conversation, and that's it. Offhand mentions about Eramis coming around to her POV and her helping to hash out tonic recipes only goes so far when we don't actually know how those conversations went, or how long they've gone on for. Again, it might have felt less stupid if we had the original weekly pacing- bc then that would mean that she's been talking with Eramis for weeks on end, and does have an actual grasp on her intentions- but it doesn't feel like that's happened bc everything is packed together I def. think that the act got shafted by the new pacing, but at the same time, I'm pretty bummed that they haven't really fixed the issue with seasonal storylines going too fast and not fleshing stuff out enough. Act 1 at least had more fieldworks, bugged as they are, but Act 2 feels oddly barren in terms of exposition and loretabs. The Echoes format should allow for more story at a better pace, but it really doesn't feel like that's happening
I really feel like a lot of the issues with seasons boil down to the team not having enough time and resources to cook. Because of that, narrative beats are missing, presentation is watered down, activities feel samey, and mistakes fall through the cracks due to not having enough time to check. Another possibility is that some of the contexulization needed could have been cut and put into the Field research stuff, which are optional for the story.
I like Eido’s plan, its super dumb but what else does she have left? Its just another notch on our guardians belt of “really bad ideas that hopefully have good results”
Gotta be Athrys in the Echo. Eramis needs a moment of character development, and the revelation that the Witness got to her family that she thought was alive for all these centuries might be the tipping point. Maybe I’ve been playing the game too long, but I can sense a twist coming with how we decided to let her go after Fikrul herself for the next 6 weeks. It’s been hammered home so much that she won’t change that I’m now convinced that she will. The song being a “Whirlwind dirge” implies it was written after the fact, during the Long Drift when Chelchis was already dead/taken. We know that Athrys tended to sing to hatchlings, so she has the talent and possibly knew the song the Echo is singing. If it is indeed Athrys, I can imagine Eramis will die in Act 3’s climax, either fighting Fikrul or protecting Eido from Nezarec when he finally takes control of Mithrax. Her house has been gutted by Fikrul and the Witness, and her family is long dead. She hasn’t got anything left to live for.
@@ruthlesslistener most people are thinking it is Chelchis, as she is seeing singing to Irrah and is the one that faced Oryx while letting the Eliksni flee from the Black Fleet.
What I think will happen: Either Éramis or Mithrax will die somehow. Probably killed by Fikrul. Who survive will become the bearer of the echo. Remember that Variks that the Echo is seeking old Strength. And who die may become a light bearer. Remember that the prophecy of the Kell of Kells tell of a Eliksni that will have the light from the Traveler.
@@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596 I think also if it is Chelchis, if Bungie wants to finally establish lore for the Herald of Finality, it would make perfect sense that it would be Chelchis as we know that they were a singer as well and as some people have speculated. However, I find it odd that Variks would never had "heard" Chelchis considering both of their positions at the time.
honestly, i think her dialogue exchange with crow towards the middle of the act was the best part of the whole "eido freeing eramis" part of that. crow confronting eido's logic with the logic that most of us have, and her choosing to free eramis anyway was at least enough for me to hear her out.
Two speculatory pieces on who the voice could be. First is one that feels significant in the context of understanding one's past to know one's future, it could be Chelchis, Kell of Stone, who died defending Riis during the Whirlwind. It would explain their discontent with who possesses the echo now, a being who uses power similar to what powers were used to destroy Riis during the whirlwind, and many Elisnki, regardless of house, revere and worship her to this day. Second one is more difficult but it focuses on the aspect of Eido being the Kell of Kell apparent the story is making her out to be, it could be Inaaks, Mithrax's mother and the Kell of House of Wolves before Stolas. Inaaks story was a troubled one, we see many points in her story where the loss of Riis drives her further and further away from the graces of her people and her son, culminating in their conflict over the Relic of Nezerac where she assaulted him. We know she died at the hands of Korha, the Hollow, a captain from House Winter. Knowing dirges of the whirlwind invokes the same sort of shanties that the Fallen Pirates would come to sing, lamenting the loss of home. But where Inaaks refused Mithrax's ways of respecting the traveler despite the loss of Riis, I feel we will see a similar conflict between Mithrax and Eido, where Mithrax, burdened by his condition and uncertainty of the fallen's future, may begin to fall into behaviors similar to his mother, but I believe that if Mithrax were to hear the voice of his mother, the one who challenged his ideas and the new way of thinking he discussed, it would give him a moment of realization how close he is to becoming her, the one who would wound and belittle their child for having hope. In that moment, I believe, that while Mithrax may not understand Eido's thinking, his trust and faith in her would outweigh his own fear and he would give her his full backing and support. It would be a poingant moment where the old accepts the new and both work together toward a brighter future.
I think a simple but better way to have handled the freedom of Eramis would’ve been to have crow go: “Alright Eido, since you truly believe this I’ll cut you a deal, Eramis is allowed to run tactical and do some support work and IF she does a good job, I’ll see to her freedom myself” instead of “okay fine do a prison break” would’ve allowed for some additional characterization for them in activity dialogue too to help build up that trust
I believe the voice has three candidates: Chelchis, or one of the two Slayer Barons we saw in the new lore from the Revenant - the apprentice Irrha, and Baron Kiiraskes. Back in Echoes, the identity of the person whose Memory formed the Echo of Command was all but broadcasted with the Dynasty lore book. Dynasty was about Te'Qal and the Qugu, and he was name-dropped in-game by Te'Qal. Now, The Garden-Way lore features Slayer Baron Kiiraskes, her apprentice Irrha, and Chelchis. It could be any of the three, but I'd say the best bet is Chelchis. She is known in the old Destiny 1 lore as a Kell whose House stood against Oryx and the Hive to allow the Eliksni to escape the Great Whirlwind and is potentially the reason why the Eliksni survived and escaped. At the end of Garden-Way, Irrha reacts to Chelchis singing a song, a song he describes as "a song for star-sailors headed out into the dark between worlds". What better song to become a Whirlwind dirge? What better identity for the Echo seeking a worthy Kell of Kells than Chelchis, Kell of House of Stone? The lore says Chelchis fought Oryx, but it wouldn't surprise me if, in her final moments, the Witness claimed her. That said, Variks doesn't recognize the singer, so either he never personally knew Chelchis, or it might end up being Kiiraskes or Irrha, since there is little doubt the last of the old Slayer Barons would have fought the Darkness directly.
What if the echo is Eramis' wife? Remember that lullaby? To my knowledge, thats the most significant reference to singing we gave with the Fallen. And, releasing Eramis works for me, because I really, REALLY want to turn her into and intergalactic grease spot
I will say, Eramis willingly accepting capture is her way of seeking help from them. She knows she can't do this alone, she has abandoned her old ways, but she can't fully let go and fully trust guardians understandably. She, like the other ancient eliksni know Eido is their future. So she's inclined to align herself with her. I do think we are seeing Eramis change, even if it is subtly.
For freeing eramis, I think it works. It’s not a smart idea, they make that clear. We know eido trusts eramis, believes there’s good in there somewhere. I think eido’s motivation is solid enough, but really seeing mithrax’s condition worsen would help. The problem is that some people will disagree, so really I think it should have been Crow that freed her, then our guardian can stand there and ghost can get upset or something. Crow reassures and then the decision seems more reasonable for people on both sides. Helps bring eido and crow closer, the decision has weight coming from crow because he knows if and when people find out they won’t be happy. Plus if you keep the emp bit in there we could have an opportunity for a spider/crow interaction, I think it’s been a while. Again, that’s just sorta the issue with having the guardian make any decisions of their own. There’s always going to be people that think “I wouldn’t do that” Scorn Skolas is neat, didn’t feel like much of a twist. I think we could all smell it coming from a mile away. I wish he was more zombified looking though. Also wish there was a better reason why we can’t damage fikrul other than “because immune shield.” Make it so that he’s constantly regenerating or something. I would definitely believe the prison is full of dead things that mara just kept around. Curious what else is in there.
I imagine the structure of the narrative (if we were allowed to make meaningful choices that affected the story being told) would look a lot like a choose-your-own adventure book. We would all start on the same page and as time progresses we would make different choices and follow different paths, but we would all come to the same end page. This would at the very least give us the illusion of choice and give the story some replayability as the player could go back and make different choices and follow a different path. You could explain the different goings-on by saying the story beats not experienced by the player character are still progressing as a result of other fireteams (like the ones we usually hear about in the lore) doing story-related things.
for me personally, I didn't agree with it but rationalized it as my guardian going along with Eido as a favor/giving her a chance to play out a big decision since she IS likely to be the next eliksni leader and since he knew she would force the issue one way or another. at least this way hes standing with them ready to turn Eremis inside out if she tries anything. plus this isn't the first time we've given the benefit of the doubt to someone we really probably shouldn't
My guess is Misraaks. Variks says the Echo wants someone with an old strength, that can unite the scattered in their time of need. He’s already been doing that by taking in any eliksni refugees regardless of their background.
Tbh the first thing that came to my mind when it came to the voice in the Echo was Athrys, which i guess would be why Eramis is also being freed and maybe she herself finding out and recognizing the voice. Just a maybe (Sorry for bad english, not my first language)
My thing seeing the fleeing eliksni turning in real time made me excited because I thought oh this is how they incorporate onslaught into the last city map, start a zombie apocalypse effectively, cause a crisis of faith for all of the eliksni, they've never had a permanent home without problems and they have to go back to being spacefaring. Or have them try to establish themselves on the planets of the sole system adding new onslaught maps and everywhere running into fikrul leading into each act having more and more fights and less eliksni running out of time and options then we release Eramis and then let them fight and then lastly all out assault on fikrul cmon bungie I literally thought of this while at work
Eido's scheme made sense to me with the build of her relationship with Eramis over the years. Realistically, it's not even a matter of trust. Eido is desperate at this point to save her father, and that actually has been presented both in the normal story beats and fieldwork dialogues. I however agree that the Guardian agreeing to release Eramis was just wrong. With everything Eramis has done, there just isn't a real reason for us to trust her to get the job done willfully or otherwise. Take us out of the actual jail break plan, and it works better narratively. Hell, if they needed our Guardian that badly we could have just popped up with Crow. As far as the Echo goes I'm thinking its Chelchis and goes to Eido or Misraaks. Feels like the best way to save the latter from becoming a new body for Nezarec though they could always go the darker way and let him die off while giving the leadership role to Eido. Honestly I really want my cake and to eat it too with Mithrax alive and healthy but Nezarec fully returned and taking over Scorn, Dread, and Shadow Legion.
Well, I think, We know Eido well enough to know that she would release Eramis from jail with or without us. At least going along with her plan means we can be there to protect her. Additionally, she does know her own people better than us. She is her own person. She will make her own mistakes. That being said, We don't need to release Eramis from jail to access her knowledge on tonics. She can talk to us from behind the barrier. We don't need her to make the tonics.
Personally the only moment that had me flaining my arms was when crow said let's just pretend like ikora doesn't already know like, idk man the idea that our newest vanguard leader is already going behind backs doesn't feel like the same crow that just came out of final shape.
Ikora has tHe Hidden? And I have no doubt that some Hidden kept thier eyes on both Eramis and Crow even after they were capture/raised to Hunter Vanguard.
the voice in the echo is chelchis, kell of the house of stone. The house sacrificed itself to hold off the witness's forces so the other houses could escape Riis. Chelchis even fought oryx
Man idk if its just me but the entire time Eido was talking about breaking Eramis out i had this really bad stomach ache telling me. "Eido its not gonna be good Eido something bad is gonna happen to you. Edio everyone is telling me to keep you safe and look out for you. Something bad is coming".
*Eido:* Look, the echo is free, it seeks someone worthy to wield it! **Echo hovers about** *Eido:* Look, it's coming to me. **Echo ignores Eido** *Eido:* W-wait, if it's not me then, who does it deem worthy? *Randal The Vandal:* Was there really any doubt?
My money on who the Echo of Riis is is Chelchis. The music being diegetic and heard by all characters present means the voice can be taken as a 1-to-1 representation of the vocalist. The singer on sound alone appears to be female and Chelchis is a female Eliksni. The legends of Chelchis' final stand alongside House Stone against the Hive and Black Fleet during the Whirlwind are ingrained into Eliksni history. I think Chelchis is the perfect answer for the identity of the Echo.
To be fair, Eramis DID save Eidos life(Season of Plunder if I remember right), so she, possibly blindly, does see that Eramis has good in her. Also I prefer what Crow(I think) said about Eido, she's optimistic, not naive. On top of that, she's desperate, her Father is suffering, and not in the 'wasting away' kinda way that most stories do, but in the cursed, much more violent and aggressive, saying things she would never expect to hear out of his mouth, kinda way, and idk about you, but any time I've heard my parents say something I'd never expect out of their mouths, it's a SHOCK, especially for someone as kind as Eido who's (mostly) always had words of kindness or support from her father, and some could argue "She knows he doesn't mean it, it's the curse talking" sure, but, she also didn't know that her father was a notorious pirate who did HORRIBLE things at some point, so now there's doubt, especially hearing it in his voice "What if what he's saying are his inner thoughts...". I do however agree that it's stupid to include us in that choice, sure, many of the players would agree with her and free Eramis, I certainly do, but mostly because I know she did most of her harm because she was afraid of the Witness, and now I'm thinking "I killed the thing you feared, don't be stupid..." Oh and, I'm pretty sure Eramis is just kinda done and defeated, she's been through so much, I think it's all finally sunk in, every time the Eliksni make progress, some huge bad thing happens to kick them 2 steps back, and she doesn't want to help less because we're her enemy, and more because she's just lost hope. Also, if you go and check, she's still in prison... thought that was pretty funny.
Honestly, I think that the voice in the Echo is Arthrys. Not Arthrys herself, but an approximation. The Echo recognizes Eramis from when it was a part of the Witness, and it sees her as worthy of it, so it chooses a voice that Eramis knows and loves. Whether or not the Kell of Darkness actually will claim it is up in the air. I think it will be claimed by either Eramis, Misraaks-turned-Nezarec, or Eido.
i still feel that if we can persuade the echo to our side it may allow us to have it persuade maya's echo of command to our side or otherwise make it more reasonable for us to claim it from her rather than her slipping away with it
Eido: “Eramis deserves forgiveness!! 😢😭” Chad Guardian: “The only thing Eramis ‘deserves’ is a Shatterstorm followed by a Outbreak Perfected Finisher. 🗿” I’m getting really tired of them trying to gaslight us into feeding bad for Eramis. This song and dance has been sung for what feels like a thousand Seasons and it’s just never resonated with me. She final-deathed an unknown amount of Guardians in Twilight Gap, she tried to steal Outbreak Prime and reignite the House of Devils/Devil Splicers, she listened to the Voice behind the Darkness and in another Timeline, successfully corrupted her people and numerous guardians to dark powers that resulted in the City being decimated and the Traveler fleeing, she angrily unleashed the Vex, causing an unknown amount of death and destruction of her own people in Riis Reborn, she tried to resurrect Nezarec, she stood by as her House was consumed into Scorn and Wrathborn by the Witness and Xivu Arath, she was the final nail in the coffin that forced Rasputin to uninstall himself, she never showed any level of regret or understanding of the gravity of any of these actions. I’m shocked Eido gets mad at her father for keeping his dark past in wraps out of shame and embarrassment but keeps s!mping and using the respectful honorifics “Eramiskell” for this monster. I’m getting so tired of the recent trend of trying to rationalize and redeem the truly awful and insane things villains have done (Abby from TLOU2, White Diamond from Steven Universe, now Eramis from Destiny)
Ok, here’s my theory… I think Eido dies, either by Fikrul or Eramis hand. Then she gets resurrected as the first light bearing Eliksni. This resurrection and her new found power, draws the echo to her. If it was Fikrul that killed her, then she delivers the final blow to him, if it was Eramis, she spares her. Then she uses the echo to cure Mithrax. Because she’s a guardian now, the Eliksni see her as “having communion or recognition from the traveler” and she’s anointed ‘Kell of Kells’. Being resurrected as a guardian and being anointed Kell of Kells combined with the fact that, if it was Eramis who killed Eido and Eido didn’t retaliate, brings Eramis to our side (or more specifically the non combatant side) finally. Of course, the biggest plot hole in all of this is the fact that once resurrected Eido wouldn’t have any memories of being Eido… 🤷
While it makes her seem a bit dumb, I just took it as her being so desperate to save her father, that she'd do anything to do so. But the compressed story definitely impacts this.
My thoughts on Eido's decision to free Eramis is that it was largely a hail mary type thing, since she is watching Mithrax die slowly in front of her. That's a big emotional push
Some things that come to mind with regards to Eido: -eramis saved both their lives + every other mortal enemy in the galaxy coming together to fight the witness, completely changing eidos world view of enemy/friend and learns of eramis/misraaks shared history -Eido is pragmatic, methodical, and very progressive for an elixsni, and the idea of old grudges getting in the way of saving someone she loves would be extremely frustrating. Like the obvious solution is right there but she can't use it because of the stubborn pride of old warriors -eido's father is dying, and desperation leads to reckless action, anyone whos had to watch a family member decay in a horrible way can attest to turning to irrational methods of coping/treatment when their hands are seemingly tied Eidos choices might not be the "smartest" or "safest", but they're definitely relatable in a situation like hers
One theory i had after getting through the second act is nezzy taking control and before the final blow to eido erimes saves the scribe and uses a potion to make the god of fear go away until he shows up again
When Eido told me that we had to free Eramis, I physically refused. I repeated no as I stood from my chair and walked out of the room. While I regretfully followed through with the prison break, my mind and body was rejecting every moment of it. I hated that we didn't get a choice to refuse.
So i dont think its as shocking as it might seem. Step back and look at it from eidos eyes. Yes ermais is rigid and cold on her exterior but even she has said eido is the future of the fallen. Also with all the fields works and stuff you really have to remember how upset and distressed eido is. I agree she's not stupid she a scholar. But she's tried everything to save her dad and is begging us to try this one last thing to save him. So I understand her decision and why she feels this is right. Now i can only hope it turns out okay
Brotha I’ve been trying to get eido to cook up some of my special hive slushies, but she said that it’s “a waste of time” and “we need to heal mithrax” like my idea wouldn’t beat nezzy out of him
I think it might be Ermis's wife. We know she survived the whirlwind but chose not to come to sol. I think the witness found her colony and well wiped it out.
Honestly i hope at some point we get an Epidsode or Dlc about ojr Guardian Cause while yeah were basically a Legendary Goddlayer that frankly deals with all the Big shit outselves But until forsaken we had that whole Vow of Silence thing for some reason And while yeah i get why getting Voice actors for us to be constantly Talking would be expensive as hell I just wish our Guardian would talk more during season instead of the occasional Line in a Dlc Same goes for our Ghost I just want a proper story about Us rather than being a Side character in everyone elses stories whole being the one to solve there fucking problems
Multibillion company being unable to afford a VA for your character is a big stretch. Especially now since they got rid of race-specific ones anyway. If software devs displaced by war can do it so can Bungie
eido's faith in eramise isn't completely unjustified. Eramis saved eido from the hive in season of plunder and in season of defiance she tried to warn us about the prison where Amanda died and saved mithrax when that prison self-destructed. Also she is desperate to help her father
I think the issue with Eido releasing Eramis could have been eased, if not fixed, if we had a bit of a reminder before hand that the two were in comminication over the radio, reminder of Eramis saving Eido back in Season of Plunder, just walk us through the decision making a bit more to have it make more sense. Without that, we have this sudden jump in logic that feels spur of the moment rather than thought through - especially with everything in act 2 releasing everything all at once, we literally went from "we need to information, which Eramis might have" to "we should stage a prison break".
Personally I had no issues with it. Then again I did it after doing all the fieldwork. Literally exhausting all other leads. Not going to lie Mithraxx yelling at Eido was the first time I actually considered that we might have to Old Yeller the Kell of House Light. Don't know about you, but I felt pretty desperate to avoid that outcome.
My problem with this episode's story is that it's not really Bungie's best story plot. It feels like they wrote the entire thing before the change to release all of it at once but it also feels like they wrote it in a rushed or even uninspired state where they're just going through the motions to get the story on track without any of the genuine care put in like the Bray/Warmind and Hive Pantheon stories. As for the issue of scale in Destiny, Taken King did a great job of showing how massive of a threat the Taken were without actually showing a full army being turned. We saw the Cabal being taken in front of us, we heard reports of them showing up all across Sol, and the game makes the scale of the invasion a huge plot point that they throw in your face. Destiny 2 really drops the ball with most of the armies we fight immediately disappearing after the leader is defeated. Cleanup isn't D2's strong point which is why we get so many 1 to 1 scale foes
Tbh i dont think the push from eido to release eramis was bad and i know me/my guardian would support it. Because its been shown that she trusts eido and we know eido been reaching out too her for several seasons how. She'll probably betray us specifically. But we know for a fact she'll never let any harm come to eido and will help her
I loved the story beats here, until we went and “broke” Eramis out of jail. Like, I get it, Eido believes in her and whatnot but I don’t. Eramis went to Europa to get Stasis and use our Golden Age tech against us and even those that didn’t agree with her. We had a whole mission in Beyond Light helping defectors flee to safety. And in the examples Byf gave for Eramis saving Eido and helping Mithrax, doesn’t mean we should trust her. Did we all forget that, in season of the Seraph, she pulled the damn trigger to SHOOT the Traveler?!? Sure, Eramis had the Witness breathing down her neck but, she was more than willing to do it anyways. Gotta say, I like Eido but this is something that did not pay off during this act. I also doubt it’ll payoff in Act III.
It’s very funny that our guardian can be a mute sometimes and can be part in any problem with no argument comeback! While Destiny rising wolf can make a conversation with his ghost and other NPC with choice of dialogues which is ironic. Also this is just me but since the whole failed management, massive Layoffs, and lightfall Destiny will never have a high scale narrative or gameplay moments again(that’s just me)😔
A singing Eliksni you say? Can't help but think of that song you made for Eramis's lover. Though I think that might be too much wishful thinking (but would be kinda cool).
My big question is if they make Eramis a good guy character then who fills the void as the Fallen big bad? The problems with a lot of Destiny's world and universe is I don't see our big threats and enemies anymore. When I am on patrol I don't know why the enemies are there? Who is commanding them to be there? Loved the point of that we NEED to see the enemy army being built we need to see the threats we're fighting.
i feel the same about having choice in the story, cause i would have never picked crow as my vanguard, i want my exo representation in the vanguard damnit its why i picked an exo hunter
I'm just assuming that any potential reason Eido has to actually trust Eramis beyond naivety is revealed in the dialogue you're supposed to get from completing Fieldwork missions. Dialogue which is now inaccessible to me because you can't redo them on alts. Thanks, Bungo.
They should’ve had more fallen characters like mithrax that we fight besides and are named with dialogue and have them turn to scorn unwillingly so then we had to like put them down and it would actually be a bit sad rather than just fighting more scorn
So take this with a grain of salt because i haven't seen all of act 2's stuff but i agree with mithrax possibly attacking eido but i think that for some reason or another eramis will save/sacrifice herself for eido. Idk i hope im wrong about eramis sacrificing herself because she's one of my favorites but my gut is telling me that she will.
Ok, what if the community were to get a pause in the story make a choice, then depending on the larger vote, the story follows the choices of the majority rather then railroad us. Almost similar to how Helldivers 2 does community challenges, in this case story creation. Alot more work for the Devs, but better for the community. Just a thought.
The echo stayed with fikrul becouse he was the best choice, best candidate out of all. I think the reason why fikrul revived skolas is becouse he made a bargain with the echo(thats my theory). Echo will grant fikrul power and knowlegde, and fikrul will find a vessel(skolas) for echo
My biggest issue is that Yes, Eido has earned credit for being a fantastic leader and driving member of the House of light But man She's getting more glazing by the plot than Crow did and it's making me feel like a side character again.
Honestly, I can trust her based on how she is portrayed as a tsundere. Someone who acts tough, but is really a softy on the inside. Another thing to point out is. Eramis’ hesitation in Seraph where she took a moment before activating the Warsats against the Traveler. in there is some doubt in her grudge. I feel that she should hear the song, perhaps it will remind her of her mate Arthrys and will reaffirm her own stance to officially declare her allegiance to us.
My question is why do we have to break eramis out? At this point The Guardian (our character) should be supreme commander of all FOTC. Given our extensive kill list, including the Witness. We should just be able to say "yeah i need her".
I think destiny should have a war table type system that describes what is happening in the solar system. It would be relatively cheap to produce and just needs to be text, in the style of reports from the field
i certainly dont condemn or judge eido for wanting to free eramis, but i disagree with her that we should. being forced to have my own character into a narrative choice i dont like definitely left a bad taste. also, why is it one extreme or the other? just confine eramis to that little neighborhood where eido is instead of the tiny little cell. why did we have to outright free her?
Few reasons 1) Let's face it. Eramis is 0-3 against the Guardian. Even though Crow got the credit for her capture we know who did the real leg work that day. We've proven that she can be put down easily if she steps out of line. So there is little actual risk to letting her out. 2) While she cares for Eido I don't think she would actually help if she wasn't at least shown some trust. What's the point in asking for her help if she assumes you'll just waste what little time you have scrutinizing every lead she may give you? 3) Letting her out of the cell in to that little neighborhood wasn't going to cut it. Way too risky. At the very least a human from the Last City could freak out and blow the whole deal if she was spotted in the Eliksni Quarter. Had to be able to find a better spot to hold up.
Eido:"Are you winning, dad?"
Mithrax:"YOUR MOTHER HUNG HERSELF RAAAAAA-"
*Cue the Venom Theme*
My favorite part was how Eido constantly begged us to free Eramis, just for Eramis to tell her that her potions are a joke and she’s a disgrace to Sjur Eido’s name.
I definitely feel like Eido releasing Eremis was totally on brand with what we've done before. Like we've made so many deals similar to this one that it didn't even phase me.
2:50 As a hunter, I'm morally obligated to go against my vanguard at some point just to bother them.
You're not unique, we all like to push the bald people's buttons
Crow is definitely a Hunter Vanguard as he’s making decisions without the other two leaders XD
@@Icebuerger4016 agreed. As a hunter from D1 and literally only a hunter. We kinda do what we want. A little renegade if you will. But we'll see it through.
Titans won’t think it through and Warlocks need to…experiment to test for the right course.
As a fellow Hunter...I agree.
I think that was my favourite seasonal/episodic cutscene they've ever put out. My jaw hit the floor when the Ketches came out of warp speed and the camera panned to Riis under assault from the Black Fleet with that hymn playing. Cinema.
I disagree. She's DESPERATE and wants to save her father so she'll do anything. She also has a soft spot for Eramis already.
I absolutely agree
I don’t think Erasmis stil sees herself as an enemy of house light, she wants her people to continue but feels she cannot go with them. She states plenty of times that she expects to be executed and basically gave herself up for her people to integrate into house light.
Keeping Skolas's body around for potential future use does seem to me very much like something Mara would do.
Vanguard did it with Savathuns body after witch queen
@@ivanreyes371 because she was a light bearer. If they destroyed her body, Immaru could bring her back next second
But I agree that keeping Skolas body is something that Mara would do
One way of showing how bad it would have gotten would have been to change the fallen patrols on each destination change from Fallen to Scorn.
It would also be great if they reflected the changes happening to Nessus too
@@Devmode_Nunchaku thats too much of an ask for bungie unfortunately
I feel stupid I didn't think of this myself. Not cause ego, but cause it makes perfect sense. Could have been gradual too. Act 1 some public events are scornified. Act 2 some fallen v scorn fights in patrol areas. Act 3 scorn everywhere the fallen once were, save maybe Europa cause house salvation are strong enough to put up a fight. Would have been mega cool. Destiny: almost good.
I think Eido's decision came more from desperation than naivety. That's the whole vibe I got from the Fieldworks lore, so I can understand why the Guardian assisted with Eramis "escape". It clear she's grasping at straws for anything tha might help her father. Freeing Eramis felt in part to me because Eido believes in the good inside Eramis and that would in turn also help her cure Mithrax in the long run.
Throughout the latter part of the story I was like "My guardian wouldn't do this. I don't agree with this, I don't want to do this"
Agreed
Weird. I had the opposite thought. "My Guardian has to do this. We're at a dead end. There's no other leads. Mithraxx must live."
I just exist
Meanwhile my ass was thinking about my Guardian, ducking and diving between cover trying to get to Eramis' cell. Everyone else sees him and thinks he's crazy. And on top of that, he's humming the Mission Impossible theme while doing this.
Despite what Joe Blackburn says, this game isn’t an RPG. An RPG would give you the option to fist-bump Nimbus, it would give you the option to free Eramis, not force you to do these things. And oddly enough the D1 writers were aware of this ludonarrative dissonance. My favorite Destiny 1 Grimoire card is the one where a Ghost Posessed by the Witness in the Black Garden speaks to a Guardian “You are a Dead Thing, made by a Dead power, in the Shape of the Dead. All you will ever do is k!ll.” Because it’s true. We never had any choices in this game, and the D1 writers knew that. It’s a self-aware critique almost on the level of “Would you kindly?”
you scared THE FUCK out of me when you said "Even the spider in his last moments when he's talking to us at the end of Act 2..." I thought he died sacrificing himself for Eido and spider dying would have made me tweak in ways that can only be compared to when rasputin died.
i literally went to look up "destiny 2 spider death" because i'm not playing the game anymore and thankfully everything was just dialogue about his and mars's beef
For how Revanant will end, the obvious direction is Misraaks gets the Echo and it cures all his problems. The somewhat obvious twist is Eido gets it and uses it to cure him. The fascinating ending is that Eramis gets it and can't save Misraaks, so she freezes him in stasis until they can find a cure, leaving her as the de-facto kell of kells because Misraaks and Fikrul will be out of the picture. Meaning that Eramis has a very powerful source of paracausal power and leads the Eliksni, so the Vanguard has to work with her in a tenuous alliance, Since Mara would be the only one who could challenge her. From there, you could take us into the next saga. Ala: Eramis and Caital talk and propose to the vanguard that we leave sol to reclaim both Torabatl and Riis. Eido would be on board since the whole point of the episode is that a cure for Misraaks only existed on Riis.
Much better than the alrernatives in my opinion, Misraaks has no interest in changing the status quo, and Eido isn't ready for leadership, plus they're both solidally allied with us. Things might not play out exactly like this, but if the Echo does happen to have the power to banish Nezarec, that will feel cheap.
Also, wow... other people's perception of Eramis really differs from my own, I've been demanding her release since act one and thought it took way too long. Everyone keeps talking about the terrible things she's done to humanity, that's accurrate, but Humanity has done just as many if not more terrible things to the Eliksni, she does not owe us anything. Honestly if Destiny did allow choices, I'd join her house and say sod Misraaks, house light is essentually decideing being second class citizens is better than being murderred on sight, it's true but it's still not a good solution.
Honestly, I wasn't surprised by Eido's plan. You're right, she's not dumb, BUT, she has shown to be exactly like a very particular reckless Awoken who is now Hunter Vanguard. She's headstrong and reckless like Crow, in my opinion, and just like Crow, she is prone to not so great ideas born out of a reckless naïveté when she gets an idea in her head. Let us not forget that she ran off by herself to fetch one of the relics during Season of Plunder. I had a feeling she was going to try and bust Eramis out the second she started showing irritation at Eramis being imprisoned to start with, and that feeling grew as she grew more irritated and desperate with each Fieldwork mission. My only complaint is I honestly would've rather stumbled upon her having released Eramis rather than us helping, because yeah, that did feel a little odd (though my Guardian would've done it out of sheer "you're going to do it anyway, so I might as well" resignation). Given her outburst at Crow earlier in the act, I expected her to take agency and just do things herself out of "None of you are doing enough" frustration.
I can't say for certain of course, but I want to believe the singer is Eramis' mate, and that the song will play a part in it. Maybe, now that she's free, she'll make a go at getting her hands on the Echo, but when she hears that song something changes in her, and either she decides to help Eido, or ends up helping us directly. It's also possible she ends her own life or dies some other way and becomes the first Fallen Lightbearer.
My thoughts too.
That would be so sad since Eramis sent her mate and children away to specifically avoid The Witness and it ends up taking them and they become the Echo 🥺
@Icebuerger4016 I feel like The Witness likely had information on everyone that served it and knew how to hurt them. We saw this before when they turned old House Salvation leaders into Scorn when she failed before.
@@Noblesix84 my main issue with this is that we know the echoes are based on the memories of those related to the witness, the hive, and any disciples who destroyed their races, their cultures, their people's. The echo of command is the memory of Te'Qal of the Qugu people. And Arthrys, while old enough, was not someone who died during the Whirlwind, and most certainly wouldn't have been someone that the witness or anything serving under it would have an interest in. However, I think there is an eliksni with that potential, that being Chelchis. We know that Chelchis personally stood against Oryx, and still acts as a powerful memory for the eliksni, being the reason many of them were able to escape Riis during the whirlwind. And, with recent lore from The Garden-Way revealing that Chelchis was actually female, it's quite possible that the dirge was one she created to help the eliksni escape.
@UltraLG2444 I do see where you're coming from, it's a very good point, however I would argue that The Witness or one of his agents, even if they didn't know where she was or were able to reach her, would have had interest in her. In previous seasons we've seen The Witness turn former leaders of House Salvation into Scorn in order to spite and/or punish Eramis for her failures. If he's willing to do that then I absolutely believe they would use Arthrys against Eramis if they had the ability to do so.
Eido wants to save her father, having lost my grandfather who raised me, it’s understandable for Eido to try anything even letting Eremis go for even a chance to save him
for a bit there i thought byf was just going to gloss over how incredible that cutscene was, but i'm glad he recognized it at the end. this wasn't just an all-timer for destiny, it was all-timer for bungie in general. just absolutely spectacular!
I reckon the voice in the shard belongs to Chelchis
That was my thought as well
I assumed that Chelchis was the Herald of Finality in the Salvations edge raid due to her staying back during the whirlwind. I also think Variks would have recognized her voice due to her being one of the major Kells during that time.
@@DaSlimyGoatI take it to Variks being really old since it’s not established if Eliksni can have some kind of dementia. I also heard it’s Athrys, Eramis’s mate.
I very much agree that my guardian wouldn’t have freed Eramis. However, I’m not sure if it’s just the way I played through the story and fieldwork, but Eido’s choice made perfect sense to me. She’s been getting increasingly desperate and she’s grasping at straws to help Mithrax, and all the one-to-one chats she had with eramis in the past have given her some blinders that she can put on when she feels like she has no other options to turn to. Plus Eramis being willing to come quietly in the beginning of this season prolly helped her seem more cooperative. Eido’s choice didn’t sound like naïveté to me as much as desperate and poorly founded hope from someone who has been consistently failing and feels like she has no other recourse.
Also I would do literally anything for Eido cause she’s the best so I happily freed Eramis as a player😂
Going off the point you made about showing the things going on like the army of scorn growing, why don't we get Red War style cutscenes anymore showing us the story as it evolves like the scenes with the speaker and ghaul? It's like they don't give us anything unless our guardian is there present in the scene unless it's one of those sketched throwback
15:45 i find it neat that we finally via the echo get to see some of the whirlwind and of riis like visually instead of just words
Based on the new major field mission, Missraks isn’t home anymore. Gonna start calling him
Nezarec, Kell of Nightmares.
Hmmm.... If I might make a suggestion. Fuse their names.
Missarek, Kell of Fear
Nezaraks, Kell of Torment
Nessarecs, Kell of Whirlwinds
@@horrorfan117 Nezareks, Kell of Torment it is. Nice!
@@coralevolve6468dear God that's insane. Splicer themed exotic for Warlocks please!
We’ve made deals with Mara and Savathun, we’ve wielded darkness and more. I am not bothered nor surprised by Eido choosing to put trust in Eramis. She’s up against a wall and out of ideas, so what were the alternatives?
Exactly, it isn’t like we haven’t made some extreme risks like creating our own Thorns or going through with Cayde’s plan to enter the Dreadnaught
Honestly, to me, it read as the apex of eido's desperation.
She wants her father to live, she needs her people to survive, and theres just nothing else she can do. Its a insane move to try to save a loved one.
i agree that eido wanting what she wants makes sense, but that doesnt mean i agree WITH what she wants
@@joaorugeri9885 there's also an extremely dark and dramatic exchange between eido and her dad in one of the research side quests. it feels like he's having a panic attack, and he yells at his own daughter... it's pretty frightening, and i kinda wish that was part of the main story. so yeah i totally get it.
@@FK74396 The Dreadnaught was a suicide mission. Releasing someone that has had and continues to spit on any offered hand is just stupid
I think that the issue with Eido's perceived naiive choice re: Eramis's release is that she's apparently been extensively talking with her since her capture...but we've never really heard those conversations. There's some fieldwork dialogue and one onslaught conversation, and that's it. Offhand mentions about Eramis coming around to her POV and her helping to hash out tonic recipes only goes so far when we don't actually know how those conversations went, or how long they've gone on for. Again, it might have felt less stupid if we had the original weekly pacing- bc then that would mean that she's been talking with Eramis for weeks on end, and does have an actual grasp on her intentions- but it doesn't feel like that's happened bc everything is packed together
I def. think that the act got shafted by the new pacing, but at the same time, I'm pretty bummed that they haven't really fixed the issue with seasonal storylines going too fast and not fleshing stuff out enough. Act 1 at least had more fieldworks, bugged as they are, but Act 2 feels oddly barren in terms of exposition and loretabs. The Echoes format should allow for more story at a better pace, but it really doesn't feel like that's happening
I really feel like a lot of the issues with seasons boil down to the team not having enough time and resources to cook. Because of that, narrative beats are missing, presentation is watered down, activities feel samey, and mistakes fall through the cracks due to not having enough time to check.
Another possibility is that some of the contexulization needed could have been cut and put into the Field research stuff, which are optional for the story.
I like Eido’s plan, its super dumb but what else does she have left? Its just another notch on our guardians belt of “really bad ideas that hopefully have good results”
Gotta be Athrys in the Echo.
Eramis needs a moment of character development, and the revelation that the Witness got to her family that she thought was alive for all these centuries might be the tipping point.
Maybe I’ve been playing the game too long, but I can sense a twist coming with how we decided to let her go after Fikrul herself for the next 6 weeks.
It’s been hammered home so much that she won’t change that I’m now convinced that she will.
The song being a “Whirlwind dirge” implies it was written after the fact, during the Long Drift when Chelchis was already dead/taken.
We know that Athrys tended to sing to hatchlings, so she has the talent and possibly knew the song the Echo is singing.
If it is indeed Athrys, I can imagine Eramis will die in Act 3’s climax, either fighting Fikrul or protecting Eido from Nezarec when he finally takes control of Mithrax.
Her house has been gutted by Fikrul and the Witness, and her family is long dead. She hasn’t got anything left to live for.
The one downside to that is that Variks didn't recognize the voice singing, and he was a close friend of Athrys
@@ruthlesslistener most people are thinking it is Chelchis, as she is seeing singing to Irrah and is the one that faced Oryx while letting the Eliksni flee from the Black Fleet.
What I think will happen:
Either Éramis or Mithrax will die somehow. Probably killed by Fikrul.
Who survive will become the bearer of the echo. Remember that Variks that the Echo is seeking old Strength.
And who die may become a light bearer. Remember that the prophecy of the Kell of Kells tell of a Eliksni that will have the light from the Traveler.
@@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596 I think also if it is Chelchis, if Bungie wants to finally establish lore for the Herald of Finality, it would make perfect sense that it would be Chelchis as we know that they were a singer as well and as some people have speculated. However, I find it odd that Variks would never had "heard" Chelchis considering both of their positions at the time.
To edios scheme I had one quote cross my mind and might have crossed hers for this “Let’s be bag guys.”-drifter
15:37 I got another $20 USD that says the voice of the Echo is Eramis’s dead wife.
It might be Chelkits (I spelled that so wrong lol) the kell who stood against oryx during the whirlwind
honestly, i think her dialogue exchange with crow towards the middle of the act was the best part of the whole "eido freeing eramis" part of that. crow confronting eido's logic with the logic that most of us have, and her choosing to free eramis anyway was at least enough for me to hear her out.
Two speculatory pieces on who the voice could be. First is one that feels significant in the context of understanding one's past to know one's future, it could be Chelchis, Kell of Stone, who died defending Riis during the Whirlwind. It would explain their discontent with who possesses the echo now, a being who uses power similar to what powers were used to destroy Riis during the whirlwind, and many Elisnki, regardless of house, revere and worship her to this day. Second one is more difficult but it focuses on the aspect of Eido being the Kell of Kell apparent the story is making her out to be, it could be Inaaks, Mithrax's mother and the Kell of House of Wolves before Stolas. Inaaks story was a troubled one, we see many points in her story where the loss of Riis drives her further and further away from the graces of her people and her son, culminating in their conflict over the Relic of Nezerac where she assaulted him. We know she died at the hands of Korha, the Hollow, a captain from House Winter. Knowing dirges of the whirlwind invokes the same sort of shanties that the Fallen Pirates would come to sing, lamenting the loss of home. But where Inaaks refused Mithrax's ways of respecting the traveler despite the loss of Riis, I feel we will see a similar conflict between Mithrax and Eido, where Mithrax, burdened by his condition and uncertainty of the fallen's future, may begin to fall into behaviors similar to his mother, but I believe that if Mithrax were to hear the voice of his mother, the one who challenged his ideas and the new way of thinking he discussed, it would give him a moment of realization how close he is to becoming her, the one who would wound and belittle their child for having hope. In that moment, I believe, that while Mithrax may not understand Eido's thinking, his trust and faith in her would outweigh his own fear and he would give her his full backing and support. It would be a poingant moment where the old accepts the new and both work together toward a brighter future.
I think a simple but better way to have handled the freedom of Eramis would’ve been to have crow go: “Alright Eido, since you truly believe this I’ll cut you a deal, Eramis is allowed to run tactical and do some support work and IF she does a good job, I’ll see to her freedom myself” instead of “okay fine do a prison break” would’ve allowed for some additional characterization for them in activity dialogue too to help build up that trust
I believe the voice has three candidates: Chelchis, or one of the two Slayer Barons we saw in the new lore from the Revenant - the apprentice Irrha, and Baron Kiiraskes. Back in Echoes, the identity of the person whose Memory formed the Echo of Command was all but broadcasted with the Dynasty lore book. Dynasty was about Te'Qal and the Qugu, and he was name-dropped in-game by Te'Qal.
Now, The Garden-Way lore features Slayer Baron Kiiraskes, her apprentice Irrha, and Chelchis. It could be any of the three, but I'd say the best bet is Chelchis. She is known in the old Destiny 1 lore as a Kell whose House stood against Oryx and the Hive to allow the Eliksni to escape the Great Whirlwind and is potentially the reason why the Eliksni survived and escaped.
At the end of Garden-Way, Irrha reacts to Chelchis singing a song, a song he describes as "a song for star-sailors headed out into the dark between worlds". What better song to become a Whirlwind dirge? What better identity for the Echo seeking a worthy Kell of Kells than Chelchis, Kell of House of Stone? The lore says Chelchis fought Oryx, but it wouldn't surprise me if, in her final moments, the Witness claimed her.
That said, Variks doesn't recognize the singer, so either he never personally knew Chelchis, or it might end up being Kiiraskes or Irrha, since there is little doubt the last of the old Slayer Barons would have fought the Darkness directly.
What if the echo is Eramis' wife? Remember that lullaby? To my knowledge, thats the most significant reference to singing we gave with the Fallen. And, releasing Eramis works for me, because I really, REALLY want to turn her into and intergalactic grease spot
I will say, Eramis willingly accepting capture is her way of seeking help from them. She knows she can't do this alone, she has abandoned her old ways, but she can't fully let go and fully trust guardians understandably. She, like the other ancient eliksni know Eido is their future. So she's inclined to align herself with her. I do think we are seeing Eramis change, even if it is subtly.
And next episode is when Byf says the dirge is being sung by Chelchis, Kell of Stone crying “Where is the Great Machine!”
For freeing eramis, I think it works. It’s not a smart idea, they make that clear. We know eido trusts eramis, believes there’s good in there somewhere. I think eido’s motivation is solid enough, but really seeing mithrax’s condition worsen would help.
The problem is that some people will disagree, so really I think it should have been Crow that freed her, then our guardian can stand there and ghost can get upset or something. Crow reassures and then the decision seems more reasonable for people on both sides.
Helps bring eido and crow closer, the decision has weight coming from crow because he knows if and when people find out they won’t be happy. Plus if you keep the emp bit in there we could have an opportunity for a spider/crow interaction, I think it’s been a while.
Again, that’s just sorta the issue with having the guardian make any decisions of their own. There’s always going to be people that think “I wouldn’t do that”
Scorn Skolas is neat, didn’t feel like much of a twist. I think we could all smell it coming from a mile away. I wish he was more zombified looking though. Also wish there was a better reason why we can’t damage fikrul other than “because immune shield.” Make it so that he’s constantly regenerating or something. I would definitely believe the prison is full of dead things that mara just kept around. Curious what else is in there.
I imagine the structure of the narrative (if we were allowed to make meaningful choices that affected the story being told) would look a lot like a choose-your-own adventure book. We would all start on the same page and as time progresses we would make different choices and follow different paths, but we would all come to the same end page. This would at the very least give us the illusion of choice and give the story some replayability as the player could go back and make different choices and follow a different path. You could explain the different goings-on by saying the story beats not experienced by the player character are still progressing as a result of other fireteams (like the ones we usually hear about in the lore) doing story-related things.
for me personally, I didn't agree with it but rationalized it as my guardian going along with Eido as a favor/giving her a chance to play out a big decision since she IS likely to be the next eliksni leader and since he knew she would force the issue one way or another. at least this way hes standing with them ready to turn Eremis inside out if she tries anything. plus this isn't the first time we've given the benefit of the doubt to someone we really probably shouldn't
My guess is Misraaks. Variks says the Echo wants someone with an old strength, that can unite the scattered in their time of need. He’s already been doing that by taking in any eliksni refugees regardless of their background.
Tbh the first thing that came to my mind when it came to the voice in the Echo was Athrys, which i guess would be why Eramis is also being freed and maybe she herself finding out and recognizing the voice.
Just a maybe
(Sorry for bad english, not my first language)
My thing seeing the fleeing eliksni turning in real time made me excited because I thought oh this is how they incorporate onslaught into the last city map, start a zombie apocalypse effectively, cause a crisis of faith for all of the eliksni, they've never had a permanent home without problems and they have to go back to being spacefaring. Or have them try to establish themselves on the planets of the sole system adding new onslaught maps and everywhere running into fikrul leading into each act having more and more fights and less eliksni running out of time and options then we release Eramis and then let them fight and then lastly all out assault on fikrul cmon bungie I literally thought of this while at work
Eido's scheme made sense to me with the build of her relationship with Eramis over the years. Realistically, it's not even a matter of trust. Eido is desperate at this point to save her father, and that actually has been presented both in the normal story beats and fieldwork dialogues. I however agree that the Guardian agreeing to release Eramis was just wrong. With everything Eramis has done, there just isn't a real reason for us to trust her to get the job done willfully or otherwise. Take us out of the actual jail break plan, and it works better narratively. Hell, if they needed our Guardian that badly we could have just popped up with Crow.
As far as the Echo goes I'm thinking its Chelchis and goes to Eido or Misraaks. Feels like the best way to save the latter from becoming a new body for Nezarec though they could always go the darker way and let him die off while giving the leadership role to Eido.
Honestly I really want my cake and to eat it too with Mithrax alive and healthy but Nezarec fully returned and taking over Scorn, Dread, and Shadow Legion.
Well, I think, We know Eido well enough to know that she would release Eramis from jail with or without us. At least going along with her plan means we can be there to protect her. Additionally, she does know her own people better than us. She is her own person. She will make her own mistakes. That being said, We don't need to release Eramis from jail to access her knowledge on tonics. She can talk to us from behind the barrier. We don't need her to make the tonics.
Personally the only moment that had me flaining my arms was when crow said let's just pretend like ikora doesn't already know like, idk man the idea that our newest vanguard leader is already going behind backs doesn't feel like the same crow that just came out of final shape.
Ikora has tHe Hidden? And I have no doubt that some Hidden kept thier eyes on both Eramis and Crow even after they were capture/raised to Hunter Vanguard.
the voice in the echo is chelchis, kell of the house of stone. The house sacrificed itself to hold off the witness's forces so the other houses could escape Riis. Chelchis even fought oryx
Man idk if its just me but the entire time Eido was talking about breaking Eramis out i had this really bad stomach ache telling me. "Eido its not gonna be good Eido something bad is gonna happen to you. Edio everyone is telling me to keep you safe and look out for you. Something bad is coming".
*Eido:* Look, the echo is free, it seeks someone worthy to wield it!
**Echo hovers about**
*Eido:* Look, it's coming to me.
**Echo ignores Eido**
*Eido:* W-wait, if it's not me then, who does it deem worthy?
*Randal The Vandal:* Was there really any doubt?
My money on who the Echo of Riis is is Chelchis. The music being diegetic and heard by all characters present means the voice can be taken as a 1-to-1 representation of the vocalist. The singer on sound alone appears to be female and Chelchis is a female Eliksni. The legends of Chelchis' final stand alongside House Stone against the Hive and Black Fleet during the Whirlwind are ingrained into Eliksni history. I think Chelchis is the perfect answer for the identity of the Echo.
To be fair, Eramis DID save Eidos life(Season of Plunder if I remember right), so she, possibly blindly, does see that Eramis has good in her. Also I prefer what Crow(I think) said about Eido, she's optimistic, not naive. On top of that, she's desperate, her Father is suffering, and not in the 'wasting away' kinda way that most stories do, but in the cursed, much more violent and aggressive, saying things she would never expect to hear out of his mouth, kinda way, and idk about you, but any time I've heard my parents say something I'd never expect out of their mouths, it's a SHOCK, especially for someone as kind as Eido who's (mostly) always had words of kindness or support from her father, and some could argue "She knows he doesn't mean it, it's the curse talking" sure, but, she also didn't know that her father was a notorious pirate who did HORRIBLE things at some point, so now there's doubt, especially hearing it in his voice "What if what he's saying are his inner thoughts...".
I do however agree that it's stupid to include us in that choice, sure, many of the players would agree with her and free Eramis, I certainly do, but mostly because I know she did most of her harm because she was afraid of the Witness, and now I'm thinking "I killed the thing you feared, don't be stupid..."
Oh and, I'm pretty sure Eramis is just kinda done and defeated, she's been through so much, I think it's all finally sunk in, every time the Eliksni make progress, some huge bad thing happens to kick them 2 steps back, and she doesn't want to help less because we're her enemy, and more because she's just lost hope.
Also, if you go and check, she's still in prison... thought that was pretty funny.
Reminder that the exotic mission for act 3 is called Kell’s Fall (no that’s not a leak or data mined thing, you can see it in game)
"And we all agree to pretend like Ikora doesn't already know."
lmao
Honestly, I think that the voice in the Echo is Arthrys.
Not Arthrys herself, but an approximation. The Echo recognizes Eramis from when it was a part of the Witness, and it sees her as worthy of it, so it chooses a voice that Eramis knows and loves.
Whether or not the Kell of Darkness actually will claim it is up in the air. I think it will be claimed by either Eramis, Misraaks-turned-Nezarec, or Eido.
i still feel that if we can persuade the echo to our side it may allow us to have it persuade maya's echo of command to our side or otherwise make it more reasonable for us to claim it from her rather than her slipping away with it
The placement of the cutscene felt out if place, imo it shouldve come after the skolas fight, not after we rallied and begun the fight.
Initially, I thought the game skipped the fight.
Eido: “Eramis deserves forgiveness!! 😢😭”
Chad Guardian: “The only thing Eramis ‘deserves’ is a Shatterstorm followed by a Outbreak Perfected Finisher. 🗿”
I’m getting really tired of them trying to gaslight us into feeding bad for Eramis. This song and dance has been sung for what feels like a thousand Seasons and it’s just never resonated with me.
She final-deathed an unknown amount of Guardians in Twilight Gap, she tried to steal Outbreak Prime and reignite the House of Devils/Devil Splicers, she listened to the Voice behind the Darkness and in another Timeline, successfully corrupted her people and numerous guardians to dark powers that resulted in the City being decimated and the Traveler fleeing, she angrily unleashed the Vex, causing an unknown amount of death and destruction of her own people in Riis Reborn, she tried to resurrect Nezarec, she stood by as her House was consumed into Scorn and Wrathborn by the Witness and Xivu Arath, she was the final nail in the coffin that forced Rasputin to uninstall himself, she never showed any level of regret or understanding of the gravity of any of these actions.
I’m shocked Eido gets mad at her father for keeping his dark past in wraps out of shame and embarrassment but keeps s!mping and using the respectful honorifics “Eramiskell” for this monster.
I’m getting so tired of the recent trend of trying to rationalize and redeem the truly awful and insane things villains have done (Abby from TLOU2, White Diamond from Steven Universe, now Eramis from Destiny)
Ok, here’s my theory…
I think Eido dies, either by Fikrul or Eramis hand. Then she gets resurrected as the first light bearing Eliksni.
This resurrection and her new found power, draws the echo to her.
If it was Fikrul that killed her, then she delivers the final blow to him, if it was Eramis, she spares her. Then she uses the echo to cure Mithrax.
Because she’s a guardian now, the Eliksni see her as “having communion or recognition from the traveler” and she’s anointed ‘Kell of Kells’.
Being resurrected as a guardian and being anointed Kell of Kells combined with the fact that, if it was Eramis who killed Eido and Eido didn’t retaliate, brings Eramis to our side (or more specifically the non combatant side) finally.
Of course, the biggest plot hole in all of this is the fact that once resurrected Eido wouldn’t have any memories of being Eido… 🤷
2:45
Classically, desperation NEVER brings people to drastic, stupid, reckless ideas. Never ever.
While it makes her seem a bit dumb, I just took it as her being so desperate to save her father, that she'd do anything to do so. But the compressed story definitely impacts this.
My thoughts on Eido's decision to free Eramis is that it was largely a hail mary type thing, since she is watching Mithrax die slowly in front of her. That's a big emotional push
I would like the singing voice to be Eramis' partner. Especially if it would choose Eido then Eramis would have reason to join her.
Some things that come to mind with regards to Eido:
-eramis saved both their lives + every other mortal enemy in the galaxy coming together to fight the witness, completely changing eidos world view of enemy/friend and learns of eramis/misraaks shared history
-Eido is pragmatic, methodical, and very progressive for an elixsni, and the idea of old grudges getting in the way of saving someone she loves would be extremely frustrating. Like the obvious solution is right there but she can't use it because of the stubborn pride of old warriors
-eido's father is dying, and desperation leads to reckless action, anyone whos had to watch a family member decay in a horrible way can attest to turning to irrational methods of coping/treatment when their hands are seemingly tied
Eidos choices might not be the "smartest" or "safest", but they're definitely relatable in a situation like hers
One theory i had after getting through the second act is nezzy taking control and before the final blow to eido erimes saves the scribe and uses a potion to make the god of fear go away until he shows up again
I think Eramis is going to take Nezzy into herself and allow herself to be sacrificed.
When Eido told me that we had to free Eramis, I physically refused. I repeated no as I stood from my chair and walked out of the room. While I regretfully followed through with the prison break, my mind and body was rejecting every moment of it. I hated that we didn't get a choice to refuse.
So i dont think its as shocking as it might seem. Step back and look at it from eidos eyes. Yes ermais is rigid and cold on her exterior but even she has said eido is the future of the fallen. Also with all the fields works and stuff you really have to remember how upset and distressed eido is. I agree she's not stupid she a scholar. But she's tried everything to save her dad and is begging us to try this one last thing to save him. So I understand her decision and why she feels this is right. Now i can only hope it turns out okay
Ok but that cutscene tho🔥🔥
Brotha I’ve been trying to get eido to cook up some of my special hive slushies, but she said that it’s “a waste of time” and “we need to heal mithrax” like my idea wouldn’t beat nezzy out of him
I think it might be Ermis's wife. We know she survived the whirlwind but chose not to come to sol. I think the witness found her colony and well wiped it out.
Honestly i hope at some point we get an Epidsode or Dlc about ojr Guardian
Cause while yeah were basically a Legendary Goddlayer that frankly deals with all the Big shit outselves
But until forsaken we had that whole Vow of Silence thing for some reason
And while yeah i get why getting Voice actors for us to be constantly Talking would be expensive as hell
I just wish our Guardian would talk more during season instead of the occasional Line in a Dlc
Same goes for our Ghost
I just want a proper story about Us rather than being a Side character in everyone elses stories whole being the one to solve there fucking problems
Multibillion company being unable to afford a VA for your character is a big stretch. Especially now since they got rid of race-specific ones anyway. If software devs displaced by war can do it so can Bungie
Eido: I’m going to free Eramis!
Random Massive Titan: The Codex Astartes does not support this action.
eido's faith in eramise isn't completely unjustified. Eramis saved eido from the hive in season of plunder and in season of defiance she tried to warn us about the prison where Amanda died and saved mithrax when that prison self-destructed.
Also she is desperate to help her father
I think the issue with Eido releasing Eramis could have been eased, if not fixed, if we had a bit of a reminder before hand that the two were in comminication over the radio, reminder of Eramis saving Eido back in Season of Plunder, just walk us through the decision making a bit more to have it make more sense. Without that, we have this sudden jump in logic that feels spur of the moment rather than thought through - especially with everything in act 2 releasing everything all at once, we literally went from "we need to information, which Eramis might have" to "we should stage a prison break".
Personally I had no issues with it. Then again I did it after doing all the fieldwork. Literally exhausting all other leads.
Not going to lie Mithraxx yelling at Eido was the first time I actually considered that we might have to Old Yeller the Kell of House Light.
Don't know about you, but I felt pretty desperate to avoid that outcome.
My problem with this episode's story is that it's not really Bungie's best story plot. It feels like they wrote the entire thing before the change to release all of it at once but it also feels like they wrote it in a rushed or even uninspired state where they're just going through the motions to get the story on track without any of the genuine care put in like the Bray/Warmind and Hive Pantheon stories.
As for the issue of scale in Destiny, Taken King did a great job of showing how massive of a threat the Taken were without actually showing a full army being turned. We saw the Cabal being taken in front of us, we heard reports of them showing up all across Sol, and the game makes the scale of the invasion a huge plot point that they throw in your face. Destiny 2 really drops the ball with most of the armies we fight immediately disappearing after the leader is defeated. Cleanup isn't D2's strong point which is why we get so many 1 to 1 scale foes
Tbh i dont think the push from eido to release eramis was bad and i know me/my guardian would support it.
Because its been shown that she trusts eido and we know eido been reaching out too her for several seasons how. She'll probably betray us specifically. But we know for a fact she'll never let any harm come to eido and will help her
While I do agree with your reasoning of releasing Eramis for a flimsy at best reason. We did let Shayura go so, It does track.
I loved the story beats here, until we went and “broke” Eramis out of jail. Like, I get it, Eido believes in her and whatnot but I don’t. Eramis went to Europa to get Stasis and use our Golden Age tech against us and even those that didn’t agree with her. We had a whole mission in Beyond Light helping defectors flee to safety. And in the examples Byf gave for Eramis saving Eido and helping Mithrax, doesn’t mean we should trust her.
Did we all forget that, in season of the Seraph, she pulled the damn trigger to SHOOT the Traveler?!? Sure, Eramis had the Witness breathing down her neck but, she was more than willing to do it anyways. Gotta say, I like Eido but this is something that did not pay off during this act. I also doubt it’ll payoff in Act III.
It’s very funny that our guardian can be a mute sometimes and can be part in any problem with no argument comeback! While Destiny rising wolf can make a conversation with his ghost and other NPC with choice of dialogues which is ironic.
Also this is just me but since the whole failed management, massive Layoffs, and lightfall Destiny will never have a high scale narrative or gameplay moments again(that’s just me)😔
I think I know who the voice of the next echo may be. I bet it’s that krill that was an enemy of Sathona’s old house
A singing Eliksni you say? Can't help but think of that song you made for Eramis's lover. Though I think that might be too much wishful thinking (but would be kinda cool).
I find it funny people have forgotten(or ignore) that we were warned that thus would happen and we would not see it properly done until revenant.
My big question is if they make Eramis a good guy character then who fills the void as the Fallen big bad? The problems with a lot of Destiny's world and universe is I don't see our big threats and enemies anymore. When I am on patrol I don't know why the enemies are there? Who is commanding them to be there? Loved the point of that we NEED to see the enemy army being built we need to see the threats we're fighting.
i feel the same about having choice in the story, cause i would have never picked crow as my vanguard, i want my exo representation in the vanguard damnit its why i picked an exo hunter
I think it's chelchis. The slayer, baron lore even talks about chelchis singing
Let's not forget that the whole jailbreak plan was funded by The Spider for the price of a Golden Age comic book.
I'm just assuming that any potential reason Eido has to actually trust Eramis beyond naivety is revealed in the dialogue you're supposed to get from completing Fieldwork missions.
Dialogue which is now inaccessible to me because you can't redo them on alts. Thanks, Bungo.
They should’ve had more fallen characters like mithrax that we fight besides and are named with dialogue and have them turn to scorn unwillingly so then we had to like put them down and it would actually be a bit sad rather than just fighting more scorn
So take this with a grain of salt because i haven't seen all of act 2's stuff but i agree with mithrax possibly attacking eido but i think that for some reason or another eramis will save/sacrifice herself for eido. Idk i hope im wrong about eramis sacrificing herself because she's one of my favorites but my gut is telling me that she will.
Ok, what if the community were to get a pause in the story make a choice, then depending on the larger vote, the story follows the choices of the majority rather then railroad us.
Almost similar to how Helldivers 2 does community challenges, in this case story creation.
Alot more work for the Devs, but better for the community. Just a thought.
Users: Change it
Users: I can't believe they changed it
Lesson: Play your game kids...
I speculate that the echo will choose misraaks and it will be his cure from the curse of nezarek.
The echo stayed with fikrul becouse he was the best choice, best candidate out of all. I think the reason why fikrul revived skolas is becouse he made a bargain with the echo(thats my theory). Echo will grant fikrul power and knowlegde, and fikrul will find a vessel(skolas) for echo
My biggest issue is that
Yes, Eido has earned credit for being a fantastic leader and driving member of the House of light
But man
She's getting more glazing by the plot than Crow did and it's making me feel like a side character again.
Honestly, I can trust her based on how she is portrayed as a tsundere. Someone who acts tough, but is really a softy on the inside. Another thing to point out is. Eramis’ hesitation in Seraph where she took a moment before activating the Warsats against the Traveler. in there is some doubt in her grudge.
I feel that she should hear the song, perhaps it will remind her of her mate Arthrys and will reaffirm her own stance to officially declare her allegiance to us.
Everyone can be good. Even if they are inherently bad, they can be good.
15:03 $20 USD says Eido gets the Echo and gives it to Eramis. AND SOMEHOW EVERYONE IS OKAY WITH IT.
My question is why do we have to break eramis out? At this point The Guardian (our character) should be supreme commander of all FOTC. Given our extensive kill list, including the Witness. We should just be able to say "yeah i need her".
Lez go more lore
I mean, I wanted to release Eramis in act 1...but...that's because she's my fave lol.
I think destiny should have a war table type system that describes what is happening in the solar system. It would be relatively cheap to produce and just needs to be text, in the style of reports from the field
i certainly dont condemn or judge eido for wanting to free eramis, but i disagree with her that we should. being forced to have my own character into a narrative choice i dont like definitely left a bad taste. also, why is it one extreme or the other? just confine eramis to that little neighborhood where eido is instead of the tiny little cell. why did we have to outright free her?
Few reasons
1) Let's face it. Eramis is 0-3 against the Guardian. Even though Crow got the credit for her capture we know who did the real leg work that day. We've proven that she can be put down easily if she steps out of line. So there is little actual risk to letting her out.
2) While she cares for Eido I don't think she would actually help if she wasn't at least shown some trust. What's the point in asking for her help if she assumes you'll just waste what little time you have scrutinizing every lead she may give you?
3) Letting her out of the cell in to that little neighborhood wasn't going to cut it. Way too risky. At the very least a human from the Last City could freak out and blow the whole deal if she was spotted in the Eliksni Quarter. Had to be able to find a better spot to hold up.