Breaking Down Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 7 | Book Fan Review
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- In this video, I break down the best and worst scenes of The Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 7 in a balanced review / reaction that takes into consideration both the source material in the book series and the restraints of the TV production at Amazon Prime.
The sudden, instantaneous and unexplained yeeting of Mat to Falme after they literally invented an entire contrived and convoluted 100% non book related nonsensical plot line with Ishy Min and Liandrin to get him there, only to render it completely defunct and irrelevant with that one act, was absolutely the most mind boggling example of their incompetent stupidity in the entire series so far.
I'll comment on this more after the last episode so I can be sure how it is coming together (or not).
Yeah I thought this. But then considered that Mat was meant to go with Rand to Falme. Min wasn’t supposed to tip him off. Still though it’s annoying
@@Ceej474 That's worse, though, because they planned to walk to Falme.
They wanted mat to get there on his own. They wanted him to CHOOSE to go. When that didn't work, they forced it
@@summernale8818 Were they supposed to walk though? From Cairhien?
I wouldn’t say Lan’s pep talk to Rand (in the books) is due to his feelings for Nynaeve. Lan had been training Rand for several months at that point and had grown to respect Rand and see similarities between the two of them. The show of course never established any relationship between these two and shoehorned the “face it on your feet” speech in there only for lan to walk in on Rand crying on his knees in front of Siuan 3 minutes later. I don’t understand the show’s insistence on destroying central characters…
Lol Lan's relationship with Rand has absolutely nothing to do with Nynaeve
To be fair, Lan's relationship to Rand in the books has nothing to do with Nyn. But Moiraine isn't sure (in the books) which is why she's pushing him away in tGH Ch22. This doesn't at all excuse their character assassination of Rand, who would have stilled half the room if this happened like this in the books.
Am I wrong in thinking that Siuan broke one of the three oaths at the end? She attacked Lan with the one power, using a weave of air to throw him into a wall. That's pretty much identical to what Liandrin did to Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene a few episodes back and Nynaeve said doing that broke the three oaths. She shouldn't be able to do that unless she genuinely believes that Lan is a darkfriend, which, at that point, I do not believe she does.
I mean, NOW she probably does. The Amyrlin Seat just watched Moiraine, Lan and Rand disappear through a waygate with a Forsaken. That should have massive consequences for the show going forward. Moiraine and Lan should be immediately branded as dark friends (particularly since Moiraine's nephew is now also outed as a darkfriend). You could argue that Siuan's past relationship with Moiraine would give her pause to do this but... come the fuck on. They just left with a Forsaken that attacked her and left her bleeding in the street. As soon as she informs the Tower of this, they should be branded as dark friends and Rand should be considered a lost cause to them. I have my doubts they'll follow through on where this should go though.
Plot holes every where. Bad writing. 😂
I was screaming about how they left with Lanfear myself! Blood and bloody ashes!!!
56:41 Ooh please tell me you're collabing with The Sword & The Pen, I've enjoyed both your reviews immensely as I especially appreciate the deep dive into the screenwriting side of the show. Would be great to hear you guys discussing ideas and what ifs and playing through potential changes you'd consider making to key scenes etc.
Yeah, I immediately thought of the sword and the pen. It would make a lot of sense!
Within the context of the show, how do we know Rand is the dragon? How does the magic system work? How does Moraine and Siuan position Logain in front of Rand when they don't know where he's going? Why would Rand want to seek out Logain? What is the Horn of Valere? Why is it important? How do the Seanchan know how to open the box? In 15 episodes, how has the story progressed since episode one?
Well other then the forsaken hinting him not much to show hes the dragon.Thay said what the horn does in the first epsode this season. How yhe female vr works has been gone over in the show.Rand looked for logain for traning as he was the only man he knew of that channled for years before being cought and morain did tell him such in last epsiode of season one.The show and the books never tell you why turock knows how to open the box imo its because he had seen its like before as he was a collertor of thing from the age on legands
Turak was a collector of artifacts from the AoL. That IS the explanation and it is not in the show. He just opens it.
Rand presumed he was the Dragon Reborn in season one and then he broke the seal to the Dark One’s prison…
He doesn’t sound like someone trying to save the world to me.
@@jsbrads1lol he was in the denial stage for a while, then did his best whilst fumbling in the dark and being manipulated, and now after being thrown from pillar to post he is about to reach a turning point ..
And to be fair in the books he really goes to test the theory of being the real dragon reborn in the book with same title
my one big problem with this ep is how it seems they changed how the shields work. when Logain was captured, 2 aes sedai were needed to keep the shield and it was very hard on them. but now, Rand gets shielded by one aes sedai and she acts like its nothing
i think its cause rand is inexperienced, while logain had a lot of experience and was very comfortable using the power
@@chadstacy except rand had hold of saidin at the time and it was still done easily it's sposed to be harder when 1 has grasped the power, and it also doesn't explain how Nynayeve gives liandrin a run for her money either or are they both just more powerful than rand ?
@@SirBlaze75 I have the same gripe about with the way Rand is so easily overpowered and kept shielded. I think it might have worked in isolation to demonstrate the importance of training if we hadn't already seen inexperienced channelers do impressive things. In the last episode Logain saw how much of the power Rand could hold and made it sound like he could fight anyone with raw strength alone.
I think the writers liked the irony of Rand ending up helpless on his knees right after Lan's line about facing things on his feet, but not even having him struggle just made Rand look weak. I find it hard to imagine Nynaeve or Egwene being held prisoner so passively, especially after Egwene's fortitude last week, where she doesn't immediately give up even though she can't fight the a'dam. Rand playing passive mansel in distress and calling on Lanfear for rescue made it hard for me to like the character.
@@chadstacy yeah, other than when we showed Logain his powers and when he broke Moiraine's knot, I think Rand has only channel by instinct. but, you'd think having his friend/love interest captive by a forsaken and him being captured by the aes sedai (whom he doesnt like at all) and being told hes going to be locked away (therefore not being able to save Egwene) till they can use them would be a good time to channel by instinct
Like those have said above, I accepted it as Rand being inexperienced and, therefore, being easily held down. I agree, though, with the sentiment that his lack of struggle was hard to watch. This version of Rand seems to just accept whatever happens to him. Perhaps that’s the underlying point of Season 2, though: watching Rand learn that he is capable of taking what he wants rather than just accepting everything. Thus far, we haven’t seen the fruits of that seed of thought, but we’ll see.
Regarding Mat's scenes; Not only is the magic tea dumb, but it literally never showed him his past lives. Only future ones, where his mother says, "see, a prick just like him", meaning future Mat. And also Mat hanging...well that couldn't be in his past! I'm afraid they gave the red stone ter'angreal's moment to Ishamael. Sad face. Also, something that _completely_ jarred me out of the scene was when Mat went to drink the tea, and even though it had been steeping in a _metal_ pot for 15 minutes, he picks up the pot by it's sides instead of the handle, and it defies thermal dynamics by not hurting him. Not sure why, but that alone just broke it all for me!
"because they let him try to learn to channel with a gentled man and a stilled woman" - This cracked me up so hard. 🤣
Another small plot hole with Lan asking Logain what he saw when he looked at Moiraine is that when Rand does so, he has to be holding the Power in order to see the weaves. Logain didn't have that option, because he's already gentled. 🤨
The other stupid thing about Siuan manipulating Moiraine's oath on the oath rod was the fact that Moiraine didn't have to swear to obey her in the first place. When Siuan made Moiraine swear on the rod, she only says that Moiraine need obey her decree that Moiraine cannot return to the Tower until she calls her back. Nothing about blindly obeying anything she says.
But then Moiraine, in that scene, apparently being clever, changes the oath to "honoring and obeying" Siuan Sanche. You almost miss it because she specifically switches Amyrlin Seat with Siuan Sanche, but she outright says she'll honor and obey Siuan, which she wouldn't have been subject to if she had simply repeated what Siuan said verbatim. She would've _only_ been bound to "not returning to the Tower unless Siuan calls her back". Dumb girl! 😂
I'm really looking forward to your breakdown with Amber, The Sword and the Pen!!!! Her reviews of this show are very insightful and her experience as an editor has made her opinions shine, in my humble opinion!
Woah good points! Bad director, writers, and showrunner. I bet the show fans will try to find reasons to defend these plot holes.
I still think the writers suddenly realized they need the whole gang in Falme and now are just rushing to gett them there.
They could have ledt Siuan and Moraine in their early 40s and everything would work. Why do they act like giddy love drunk 20 year olds in the flash back. Especially Siuan. She stares at Moraine like shes about to jump her bones at any moment.
As a non book reader this whole show not just this episode is just very confusing as nothing makes sense, you never seem to get character development they just do things, the actual rules of the magic never get explained (even if not explicitly), and you just don't ever seem to be shown what any character's intentions or end game is. The fact that there just aren't any characters you have any empathy with, it's just very strange.
Yep. It's a problem.
Yep. Thank you.
As a book reader, I will often notice them including things that a book reader might get right away, but I wonder how anyone who didn’t read the books would understand what is going on.
@@jsbrads1 I've had other people say this which makes me think either they must be aiming this at fans of the books (which can't be the case due to the big changes they've made for no apparent reason that didn't have to be changed) or that they are thinking it's an Easter egg for those who have read the books and those who aren't it will just wash over them. Maybe if it's just about ok if this happens in action scenes for the general non book reading audience, but it happens all the time.
I have thought about the comment I made since I made it thinking am I being too judgemental on this show, were the rules and lore of the Lord of the Rings films explained before a character used some magic or revealed something about the world, but even if it isn't explicitly explained before it is at least building knowledge. In this show when something like this happens in just left confused as to what just happened and it just isn't added to knowledge as nothing gets explained ever it seems.
Thanks for the review, Amy.
I found 2.7 a confusing mess. I’m not sure why people are praising it. Perhaps because it has more action scenes and after such a slow start to the season some action scenes convince them it is improving.
The writers’ agenda was on full display in this one. After the ‘face it on your feet’ line, as usual thrown in out of context and unearned, they made sure to put Rand on his knees, shielded, with no resistance from him, just a few moments later.
And it wasn’t even enough to do it once, they had three separate Aes Sedai shield him (Siuan, Leane, Verin) with no effort, whilst he knelt passively, just to ram the point home that he really is weak and powerless.
Then Siuan says the quiet part out aloud, and straight up says it would be so much easier if Rand was a woman… channeling the clear desire of the writing room to make Egwene or Nynaeve the Dragon Reborn.
At this point, I kinda wish the writers would have the courage to go fully off script, completely abandon any pretence of telling the book story, and embrace their own story.
Just kill off Rand, Perrin and Mat - the writers clearly resent having to give the boys any scene time or agency anyway - and fully focus on a female centred story about the White Tower.
Almost nothing in this episode makes logical and/or emotional sense. It's just a mess
Movie Tropes: 1. Hitting people on the head is a safe and easy way to give them a nap. 2. Two pointing guns at each other is a conversation ice breaker. 3. Explaining need to know information to your fellows is unnecessary, your friends will figure it out
Enjoyed this review! A few comments....
1) In the scene where Lan preps Rand for his meeting, I think the actual phrase that they use in the episode is the same one from the book -- "Whatever comes, face it on your feet." I liked that scene also, because it had some of the same energy the book did, but agree that it missed a lot of its emotional core because Rand and Lan haven't really bonded at all. I also was confused about the cat crossing the courtyard stance; I expected if it was a sword form, it would have been more exaggerated, and given that soooo many things in the show are exaggerated, I figured that would be too. I was kind of disappointed when it looked like he was just walking slowly, like the shooting sequence somehow missed that the words Rand had just heard before he walked into the room. These types of scenes seem to do little more than reinforce just how much more drama and character the book has, and how poorly the show executes those things.
2) My most charitable reading of the scene with Matt and the tea (and the tea was no doubt really odd as a choice) is that it was *not* intended to show Matt his past like...was it the ter'angreal? I can't remember where Matt saw his past exactly, but maybe it was an instance where our knowledge of the book gets i the way, and what the show intended was that Ishamael wanted to break Matt, to make him join in Ishamael's goal of ending the cycles, or just to induce him to join the shadow by preying on the insecurity he seems to feel about his traumatic childhood (and, as a side benefit, re-traumatizing him in the process -- yay trauma it's so character-developing!). Basically, it was just a trick, a trap laid for him by Ishamael. I don't really believe it, I don't think, but that's the only way I could square in my head what Ishamael said the tea would do with what Matt actually experienced.
3) I like Lanfear quite a bit in this adaptation. She's one of the most dynamic characters on the screen. She wants things. She acts to attain them. Her conflicts come from where those actions meet actions of others. I think she's the best part of the season so far.
4) I really did quite enjoy seeing Egwene tell her sul'dam she would kill her. I know it wasn't in the book, but it does seem at least somewhat true to Egwene's very stubbornly independent character.
5) I enjoyed seeing Moiraine's sister do the right thing with her son despite what it would cost her.
I think points 4 and 5 above stem from my perhaps immature epic fantasy love, where characters actually try to do the right thing, try to stand on their principles, even when it will cost them.
I already had my suspicions for a while. I am now even more convinced of it: Egwene is the dragon reborn.
That juxtaposition sequence between Siuan lamenting that it would be so much easier if the dragon were a woman AND Egwene in the desert with the other damane is exactly the sort of puerile cinematic hint one should expect from showrunners of the calibre of the ones presenting us with this convoluted plot and these inane, illogical dialogues. Either that or they're playing with our suspicions with that juxtaposition. Which I very much doubt.
At least, it wouldn't be as bad as having Galadriel fall in love with Sauron.
One further problem with a possibly female Dragon is the appearently non existent number of false female Dragons. Every shady woman with an agendo would have proclaim herself that, even Aes Sedai.
Great point!
Also, isn't liandrin's cover blown now? Moraine's sister told the queen her son is a dark friend, but not the aes sedai in red that gave him his orders? I hope this is something they pick up in next episode. Seeming plot hole for now.
I think it likely Liandrin will cut and run next episode. Siuan might also be deposed early.
Fingers crossed 🤞, the writing so far hasn't inspired confidence. Who knows, Liandrin might get violently knocked out in an alley.
That will really depend upon whom Moiraine sisters informs about it (mostly that she doesn't go to the wrong persons and gets killed.) But the moment Nynaeve, Egwene and Elaine get back her cover will be blown anyway as it also was in the books. So most likely scenario is that Liandrins cover gets blown but she manages to flee. I wonder what the writers plan for her is, now that it has become clear that she is not being merged with Elaida. Because in the books Liandrin is reduced to a handful of cameos from that point on and the show has invested too much time and characterbuilding into her for that to be the plan.
Its a good set up for the dark sisters leaveing the tower and the tower split next season imo
@@MohseenLala 🤣🤣🤣
"Face it on your feet" and Rand kneels and blubbers.
"Rand is everything" yet Moiraine had done nothing on screen for Rand in six months before the start of the season and in the 7 episodes.
How is the story improved by removing the mentoring by Lan, Ingtar and Thom: the sword training, the leadership, the understanding of duty, the understanding of politics. The removal of Moiraine being the one to dress Rand and force him in to prominence. Replacing all of this with two mad men in an asylum and six months of sex with Lanfear? How is show Rand supposed to be ready for anything at Falme? I suspect we will find out he is not and just like last season the big moments will be "shared".
As for Mat it would have been better if the role was never recast and that like Thom he never returned.
I don’t think Moron ever even said Rand’s name in S1 or until halfway through S2.
Yeah, what you said.
Thank you Amy for taking the hit for those of us book fans who've given up on this show. I'm wondering if the writers called this episode Daes Dae'mar because it sounded cool but didn't really know what the term means because they never read the source material. That seems about right based on the reviews I've watched.
I think they are referring to aes sedai politicking but it means Great Game or Game of Houses, and even in reference to aes sedai it is about pulling the strings of kings and queens, not this HS intrigue bs
@@amys0482 I see. It seems to me the show has decided to make the aes sedai the main focus and made everything else secondary in support (including the dragon reborn
plot line). I’ve heard a reviewer say they should just call the show “The White Tower” instead of WOT as it would a) be more accurate to what is being done here b) separate it from the actual WOT main plot lines.
This adaptation makes me think of the movie “Idiocracy”. Thanks Rafe.
Maybe its because i never read the books, but i dont get why moraine would even think of taking rand right to the eye of the world when everyone seems to know that the dragon is supposed to reveal himself at Falme.
You are assuming 100% belief/understanding of the prophecy.
hard to remember anything, but felt I remember her catching him reading the prophecies and basically telling him its a fools errand, that you dont know what they mean usually until afterward and that they tend to not be obvious to the point you wouldn't figure it out until afterward and that many probably have been fullfilled but just not in any obvious way. basically she seemed dismissive in some of the conversations of the utility of studying the prophecies but then that would be something a brown sister would enjoy not a blue perhaps, and also if u did study them long enough thats probably the way you would feel after a long time that the time was wasted and that you didnt actually gain any understanding in the effort. :) The show consistently makes things odd and confusing but then prob would have needed a master at the wheel to turn this into something that would have made sense. They didnt bring in an experienced person even though they were going to toss a lot of money at it. Wish they did.
@@estebanelguapo they had Brandon Sanderdon as a consultant but ignored him I think.
@@VespoLiveGaming I mean the showrunner Rafe Judkin has very little experience being a showrunner or producer in anything. If you are going to toss several zeros worth of money at this why not hire someone who has a extensive background. Someone in one of these videos or comments sections said that its possible they knew they could kind of pressure or push him around due to lack of experience but then this was shopped to amazon from sony I think maybe he just was a package deal somewhere along the way. I think the whole issue comes from his lack of actual experience.
Well... in the books the motivation for going to the Eye of the World is quite simple. Moiraine hears from multiple sources that the Dark One's minions are interested in something at the Eye of the World and she knows from Gitara's prophecy (which is 100% more clear in the books -- the showrunners changed the prophecy for the show) that either Mat, Perrin or Rand is the Dragon Reborn and all three of them are ta'veren -- meaning that the Wheel will go out of it's way to keep them safe to fulfill the 'destiny' that it has planned for them. The Eye of the World is an artifact from the Age of Legends -- a great big pool of pure Saidin that no Aes Sedai from the White tower could use -- because they use Saidar. It turned out that the plan of Ishmael was to use the Eye of the World -- which is a massive reserve of power for male channelers -- to free the forsaken who had still been bound and to ultimately break through the Dark One's seals.
In the show... I have no idea what Moiraine's motivation was. Maybe she was hoping to yeet the Dragon Reborn at the Dark One at the Eye of the World and hope everything worked out for the best?
The best way to watch the show is to assume nothing they've shown before has to be adhered to any which way and they'll most likely 180 on major characters at some point or another for the shock value it creates for certain viewers.
I also believe this show is actually quite perfect for my grandma that has moderate dementia.
This exactly. Watch it passively and uncritically and it's good time
Great review Amy. You hit the nail on the head to the point where you can't see the nail anymore. In a very simplistic way one of the themes I get from the show is simply "men bad, women good" Has any male character in 15 episodes had a good moment yet? I can't recall any. I guess Perrin freeing Aviendha but then really she destroys all the whitecloaks while he stands there. The whitecloaks all men= evil, Rand asks Lanfear to help him, she kills hundreds of people to free him, thats on Rand=evil, Matt is apparently owned by the Dark, betrayed his friends, wouldnt go to Egwene when she needed him, wouldnt go to Rand when he said he would = evil, Lan has no purpose after Moriane dumps him, wandering around talking about feelings and such not evil but= useless. I think they really wanted to make Egwene the Dragon Reborn or Nyneave, they hinted at it in season one and the showrunner even said the show is not about Rand, so...not sure what to think. All the female main characters are powerful minus the stupidity they did to Moraine. My favourite character is Lanfear. I didn't like the actress when I first saw her but since then I think she steals every scene she is in. I am so totally cheering for her now. I want her to win and that is diametrically opposed to the story of the books. Is this better than season 1, yeah but that bar was about as low as it could possibly be. To be fair, many of the great tv shows in history had rough starts before they found their stride. This is diferent tho, because its supposed to be adapting from a source. I think they should say "loosely based on the works of Robert Jordan" like you said. Its funny that I keep coming back because I love the book story so much, I just keep hoping its going to get better.
In answer to your question: 1e1 Lan kills/disables 19 trollocs in the background during Winternight. I believe this is the most impressive display of anything we've seen from a male character.
Good point, I had forgotten about that.@@wotfanedit
@@chrispalmer3330 I idly went and counted while I was doing refinements to my fan edit. I had the time 😜
7:00 it's hard to FEEL that their lives have been upended by the Foretelling when we only just heard about their hopes and dreams a sentence ago.
Indeed. So much in these shows is simply so poorly executed. It's disappointing to realize that the show wants to not merely adapt but transform the WoT and see just how poor they are in the craft of storytelling.
'Be careful what you wish for'. I wanted a critical review and did not expect this episode could get so thoroughly shredded. Some things don't bother me as much as they do you, but yeah, now I like the episode quite a bit less lol. I think a huge problem with this entire show is that they made Moiraine the big main character. And so they created all this drama around her, which is both drawn out and stealing very valuable time from the other characters / plotlines. Still, I think season 2 is overall a lot better.
I went the opposite way to you on this one. I strongly disliked it on the first watch. But liked it more on a rewatch. E6 E5 and E3 have been the strongest episodes for me
I think your comment about them causing themselves issues by making moiraine the main character may be correct. My least favourite story arc is the one involving Lans relationship with moiraine
@@tw7998 For me s02e06 was the best. I still liked s02e07, just less so. And I changed my mind about what bothered me most. I thought Mat's tea trip might link him to his past selves, but if I recall correctly, that happens when he loses an eye. The show made pretty clear he will. Still, we saw almost nothing of his old lives (I think I saw him with another face just once) as Ishy said he would, and I suspect it's more unnecessary non-book drama. We'll see.
@@MrMezmerized I read that scene differently, I think he was put to sleep and Ishy messed with his dreams ..although the hanging image suggests we are getting the Finn.
I don't know how they rescue mats character. I have some sympathy for them due to the actor leaving mid filming but he needs time on screen to develop
I joke about being "team forsaken" but I genuinely enjoy the bad guys being on screen a lot more than the protagonists
Show lanfear and Ishy are great.
I suggest more Wine for episode 8!
That ji'e'toh scene was some nonsensical wetlander understanding of honor and obligation. Literally like Cha Faile and their pretend play at ji'e'toh. I'm worried they're gonna do the Aiel dirty when we get further along.
Well, they've done every single character dirty, f'ed up the magic system, and have no clue about the balance that was core in RJs books, so I would expect the same for all other concepts.
What was nonsensical about it?
The scene not making sense to us or Perrin. Check.
Aviendha being way too proud and perceiving toh where she shouldn't. Check.
Them helping her meet her toh in the fastest way possible also works. It's not the best way and we'll learn that.
It did feel like a cha faile interpretation. Maybe a wise one will pop out and say "you're being too proud girl, are you a stone dog?"
@briane8627 or maybe we are shown to be too proud (Luke she is here) and this gets juxtaposed by how other aiel act later (the Aiels arcs are coming next book for sure)
@@csarmiilet the show talk for itself. It's telling us straight out that being in a fight and letting one of your friends die because you were too busy defending yourself incurs obligation. That's what it's saying. If the show wants us to think differently, it can easily present itself differently. Until then, however, you have to accept the show on its own merits.
Just like how the opening episodes told us that men make the one power filthy (as opposed to how books present the inverse relationship ) . That it was the arrogance of men that led to the breaking of the world, etc. These points are canon in the show. We shouldn't make excuses for them.
I totally agree with your summary once again. I have to watch this from a perspective of not being a book reader. If I do that it is a better than average entertaining show. If I think about the books, I find myself repeatedly saying “Nooooo.”
Relisten to what Verin says talking to Leanne when she takes over Rand’s shield. She chooses her words very carefully and doesn’t actually lie. I still have an issue with the Aes Sedai not knowing when they are shielded. Even inexperienced Rand knew he was shielded when the Amyrllin hits him with one. Plus, as smart and curious as Morainne is she would have already asked Logain about her shield/being stilled. She knows that Logain can see channelers in the show version. There are so many holes in this show.
I'll have to rewatch it for what Verin says. I thought she said the Amyrlin ordered me to relieve you and then Siuan says she didn't
@@amys0482 She said "The Amyrlin requires your strength to protect Cairhien. I've been told to watch the boy. This is an order. I will take the shield". Indeed a excellent example how the words of an Aes Sedai don't mean what you think they mean.
@@gildor8866 Okay fair
@@gildor8866 Also you could interpret the 'this is an order' to be related to verin being told to 'watch the boy'. perhaps whoever told her to 'watch the boy' gave that command as an 'order'. I didn't have a problem with the wording. I thought it was decent. :P
@@gildor8866 Yeah the only possible lie is the 'I've been told to watch the boy'. And Alanna or Moiraine could have told her that when they came up with the plan rather than Siuan.
i don't get why they wasted all that effort and time turning Siuane into Elaida and now Elaida is in season 3. how the hell is rand supposed to defeat all these enemies if he can't even stop a single aes sedai from shielding him. untrained he stops three of the strongest channelers in the world from shielding him. it took 12 linked sisters with constant practice to shield him in the books.
Have you read the early books? Rand is actually stronger and more skilled in the show at this point than in the books.
@@csarmii which was one of the reasons Morraine never took him to Tar Valon.
@@csarmii no he is not. thanks to Lans sword training in the books as well as his fathers bow training with the void he is instinctively stronger than presented in the show. he had months of growth and confidence building at Lans hands before stepping in front of the amyrlin in fal dara.
in the show they have him being semi taught by logain, they have him channeling at the eye of the world etc all of which would have made him strong enough to beat a single aes sedai. that is why it is nonsense for how they wrote the scenes.
@joshuatempleton9556 he is in no shape to defeat anyone with the power in book two. No channeling experience. Doesn't channel at all, certainly not on purpose. He's not reached his maximum poowr yet and is probably much weaker than Siuan at this point.
And I wasn't talking about things like swordfighting skills. That's not what real strength is and absolutely not important to the Dragon as that is not his role (beat up people with a sword). What strength is being able to say no to Lanfear, to stand up for what he wants, that sort of thing.
@@csarmii he can instinctively channel in the eye of the world to defeat a forsaken and to destroy an entire trolloc army. in the great hunt he only channels when pressed by ishy at the end. in tear when nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene try to take him down a peg he instinctively shuts them down from shielding him. he is unstoppable when pressed and siuane sheilding would have caused him to instintually fight it and win. he would not have relied on a bunch of women saving him.
One thing that is particularly difficult with the show is the absolute whiplash in expectations for the audience. On the one hand, you have the CW level mindless audience expectation (nothing inherently wrong with this) where everything is so painfully and on-the-nose spelled out to the watcher (examples: over-acted emotions, conflict must be extreme, repeating lines/phrases since they think you can't remember anything). On the other hand, you have stuff like "I think the tea Mat drank is actually just something that makes him sleepy and Ishy is used the Dream World to manipulate Mat, it's not actually that he's seeing past lives at all!". And my reaction is, that would be cool but how can they expect me to take them seriously doing that when they have to remind me every thirty seconds that alanna and her warders are doing the deed (which... i'm pretty sure is 50% of the jokes in the series).
So much random stuff I feel can only be explained by book readers, or paying super duper close attention (and retroactively understanding that certain characters are lying, etc), and then others I *need* to turn my brain off for it to make sense.
Interested to see how the finale goes :)
I love your attention to detail! And I so-very agree the show is fun to watch as long as you don't think about its many non-sensical plot points and incoherent characterisations. As a book fan I'm doing my best to do exactly that, but geez it's difficult. I am glad, though, that the last couple of episodes have been slightly better than earlier ones. I'm hoping that Episode 8 will keep this slight improvement going.
Keep up your great analyses 🙂
Verin Didn’t Lie.
She clearly made four distinct statements, all four statements are true. Taken together, one can wrongly infer Verin was communicating a command from Siuan. Moiraine noted the difference between the inference made and the statement given.
@AmyStewart The worst bit about the Toh scene apart from not making sense as to why she got the beating, is that in subsiquent scenes' she's not showing the damage of the beating she just took 5 minutes earlier, so the Aiel can regenerate now ? . I didn't like the lan rand scene , because they had no interaction prior, and somehow Rand knows how to fight with a sword like he was working as a nurse in a god damn mental asylym, and he got totalled by a fade when trying to use a sword :| so he now knows forms huh whaaa howww ? . I had a feeling that it was orders from Lanfear, that liandrin asked Barth to kill his aunt. Why on earth would matt drink the frigging tea knowing it's from the hands of a forsaken :O . . .
My question is how can Logain see the flows since he has been stilled and so can no longer channel and you need to be able to channel to see the flows. I don't think any of the characters in the show are good they have all shown at least tendencies of evil, Nynaeve shoved egwene off of a cliff to possible death in the rapids, Moraines actions killed 1 person and existantially killed another due to womans moth being closed now cannot eat so will starve to death, lans followed moiraines lead so accessory to murder, Matt's just evil, Perrin killed his wife, and Rand beat to death or nearly so someone so he could get into see logain, where are these good people ? . I'm not sure if a fisherman is more humble a station than a shephearder so i'm not sure how that is more humble ? sounds about the same to me. The face things on their feet sort of dismisses the Stepin Episodes in season 1 though so i didn't like that :|.
The show also made Rand weaker than both Nynayeve and logain, as the Amyrlin was easily able to cut rand off from embracing the source and hold him, and then later only 1 woman is needed to comfortably hold rands shield, where as 2 were needed to hold logain and they stroggled, and Leandrin struggled with Nynayeve and the fact rand was holding the source at the time he was shielded which is (book lore wise) much harder to do makes him incredible weak :|.
They've also reinforced that you need to channel to use the waygates, so does that mean faine, the Fades and ogier can all channel ? and I'm sure Aes sedai know about tying off weaves in the books and use it on occasion they just suggest tied off weaves are a bit more brittle and easily broken.
Rand got a beating from the maidens for going off without them, remember?
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine yeah going off without them, not going into battle with them and someone dying because of it that is different concept. he got a beating because he didn't want them dying on his behalf as he felt women needed protection and the maidens took offence at that train of thought
Rand is more weak in TGH than in the show, actually. He doesn't even use the power on purpose their either.
And you can ask others to help meet your toh.
Aviendha is just like the books. She's way too proud. Others would probably not feel they had to in the situation but she totally would.
Tying off weaves being a lost knowledge is an intentional change.
@@csarmii rand at his weakest holding full saidin would still need several linked sisters to shield him and hold it though and ou can't really say Nynaeve has much more use of the 1 power on rand at this time and yet she nearly broke through liandrins shield (going by facial expressions f that scene and the apparant struggle on her face)
And yes i know about asking others to meet your toh my stated issu was she had Regenerative powers as shwe looks perfectly fine 5 mins after the fact, and again Aiel expect to die in battle and you don't earn toh from fighting honorably
@SirBlaze75 in book 6 that may be the case. In book 2 it isn't. There's this thing called character progression. It's fine not to remember the books, especially the early books - we all have the FINAL character in mind and that skews our view.
When a non-book reader asks a 4 time book reader (me) what's going on in a scene and I say I have no fing idea. It's not the wheel of time....
SPOILERS
I THINK they're mixing Siuan and Elaida... forcing a 4th oath, and wanting to put the dragon in a box... are things Elaida did.
and they skipped meeting the queen and Elaida.
I HIGHLY doubt they're going to bring in her relationship with, and eventual marriage to, Gareth Bryne, or Moiraine's marriage...
It all boils down to making Moiraine the main character and forcing her to be at the center of everything, thus:
Season 3 is likely to end with Moiraine killing Samael with balefire... and I wouldn't put it past them to combine Samael with Rahvin, and make that all a plot involving Moiraine's sister and "protecting the queen" or something.
I have no idea if they're going to do anything in the 3fold land, including Rhuidean... especially with what they did in the finale of season 2...
What will Rand be doing? Hmm... he's not really important, is he?
Im hoping the whole scene with Matt and the tea is actually all in Tel'aran'rhiod
Sounds like a hallucinogenic tea that lets you to trip into a pyschological higher state. Im not fond of them using that to replace potentially robert jordan's elf land.
The carpet was polyester.
Uh, I want a glass of red wine now. I even didn't read all the books. I shouldn't care, but I'm invested. And you are so eloquent. After the series ends, continue to make content.
You can enjoy this fine glass of wine if you don't mind the salt and bits of smelly goat cheese floating in it.
that entire scene with Aviendha and toh made no sense that is not how it works period.
1. Pretty sure Liandrin is now taking orders from Lanfear, who has definitely expressed interest in killing Moiraine.
2. It's likely they skipped the portal stones because tossing out another fast travel method this early would just be confusing.
3. It appears that Lan's "epiphany" came as a result of Moiraine claiming not to be suicidal, since actual stilled women seem to invariably kill themselves (in this version). Doesn't explain how he knows that Logain has ever seen Moiraine, what a tied-off shield would look like, or how to fix it. Not to mention that Aes Sedai in the books do know how to tie off weaves. But I guess it would make Moiraine look even dumber if she knew it was a possibility and then didn't even consider it.
They've teased Moiraine feeling suicidal several times this season so this seems like it is supposed to be a "gotcha!" revelation but was just confusing.
Really enjoy these episode reviews! Very entertaining
It’s a pretty juvenile adaptation but a fascinating attempt nonetheless. At this point I’m not confident that we will see it continue to a final season. It’s just trying too hard to be something other than what made the books so special. It’s a shame because the casting has been brilliant.
Yes, the actors have been outstanding. I noticed it most with Hammed Animashaun playing Loial. I found the makeup ridiculous and he had very little time on screen, but he immediately convinced me that he was indeed Loial. When Matt mimics the closing of the door and Nynaeve is "not pacing but investigating" I may not know the story but I do know the characters. And Kate Fleetwood has made Liandrin far more interesting than book Liandrin ever was. To be fair to writers: the material they gave her was actually good, it made me notice how little we get to know about the motivations of the Darkfriends other than the Forsaken in the books.
right. i feel like without some of these actors doing their best with atrocious dialogue at times. this would be even so much more of a flop. The casting bar a select few have been on point.
This 1000x. The acting is completely saving show. especially the secondary roles Rhyma, Bassan, Lady Anvaere, and all the Dark friends.
I agree with most of your criticisms. This show is only fun if you don't think too hard. For eg, Gitara clearly said that THE baby dragon was reborn NOW & yet in S1E6 Moiraine wonders of all of the E5 are the dragon collectively (even though she knows Nynaeve is not of the right age, and Gitara was clearly it was just one baby)
One thing I disagree with you is Lanfear's plan for free Rand - that was ok. Lanfear clearly didn't want to risk a confrontation with 14 Aes Sedai, she may not win that fight without exposing the Black sisters. So it makes sense to do a distraction, she clearly enjoys it, and get to Rand away from the AS quarters. That felt in character to me.
I'm pretty sure the Lanfear scene is meant to make sense --- It will be part of some plot by Liandrin to cause Siuan to fall and be replaced by Eliada (who I hope they will make into not a dark friend, but I don't have high hopes).
Here's a headcount so far.Garreth brynn done dirty.Gaul done dirty.loial done dirty...let's cut to the chase,ALL the boys.If this was reversed the outcry would be apocalyptic.Theres a non adaption and then there's insult.This show is an insult.
It has everything to do with the great game Amy. The aes sedai has one plan for the dragon, the forsaken has another. Lanfear may or may not have used compulsion on Siuan. Liandrin ordered Barthanes to kill Moiraine and his mother also very likely an order from Lanfear - her new master. When Rand says "ive been captured" lanfear replies "I know", now how would she know that unless she planned it? Mat is being spoon fed that he is born dark and that Ishamael and him are essentially the same. Rand is going to realise he more or less ordered Lanfear to kill everyone in Cairhien further weakening his resolve against her. On paper Lanfear has helped Rand much more than any of the aes sedai that are supposed to be on his side this is interesting for many reasons. This implies that Lanfear is still a part of Selene were she uses situations to make herself look like his only option in the future. This show is not brainless TV I get what you're saying. Oh the tea was served with a certain wooden figure being carved into it something we saw on display in season 1 as images of forsaken.
I didn't notice the spoon but The Great Game doesn't just mean manipulation or people being deceptive or forming alliances to reach different goals. It is commonly called the Game of Houses because it is about power, specifically who rules the land and under whose dominion. It is the Game of Thrones of Randland. None of that was on display in this episode unless you count the Amyrlin as a queen or Barthanes not getting married afterall. I don't know why so many people are appeased by such dribbles and vague handwaving at the source material.
@@amys0482 The great game is referred to whenever people use language for ulterior motives, and hide their true intentions that was very much on display in this episode. It is true that the outcome very often is a powershift. I agree with that Game of Thrones focus much more on this aspect in the story. This was something I am sure RJ wished he did as well. Anyway great review thank you Amy
I’ve read the series many times and I am struggling to like this adaptation. But my wife who hasn’t read the books is enjoying it, and I’ll admit if I hadn’t read the books I’d probably like it too. But it’s so different I can’t focus on anything else except the differences.
Why I gave up after series one.
@@philipdawes2661 season 2 is much better objectively but it’s so far off book that it’s not even the same story anymore.
This is a good review. I am look forward to your collab video dropping next week.
Who wants to bet that the Lanfear rampage is replacing her end of book Rampage?
To Verin lying: I actually watched her exact words 4 times to try to see if something was an outright lie. Her exact words are:
"The Amyrlin requires your strength to protect Cairhein. I have been told to watch the boy. This is an order, Leanna Sedai. I'll take his sheild."
She does not say who told her to watch the boy or who gave the order. If Moiraine, Alanna, and Verin are working together she could have had Alanna (or Thomas) do this. She does take the shield. So the biggest chance of an outright lie is that "The Amyrlin requires [your] strength to protect Cairhein". That's obviously false, but it's not clear to me she knows it's false so maybe it's not a lie. I actually thought this kind of works as Aes Sedai "truth".
Also, I want to comment that 7 full seconds of silence while you drink a glass of wine to prepare to talk about how stupid show Siuan acts is better editing and pacing that we have seen in two seasons of the show.
After a rewatch I’m pretty sure I hate quite literally everything about this episode. The absolutely annihilation of mat and suian characters is to much for me. Why this additional nonsense from suian about the tower protocol being to capture the dragon!?!?!? They was completely unnecessary and they could have easily introduced elida without this.
May as a whole is just a spit in the face of book fans.
season 1 lvl bad. i also agree this might be in bottom 3 least favorite overall.
@@tarekt8427 reread my comment and I’m amazed you were able to even understand haha. The typing errors oh my.
But yes this was a pretty bad episode for me. I can’t recall which UA-camr I was watching that said this but essentially every change they make from the source material will have a domino effect that makes it more difficult to tell a comprehensive story. This episode was the pinnacle of that to me. They are just making their own jobs move difficult by changing key factors in the world building and story telling.
I had actually forgotten that the Horn of V
Sorry Horn of Valere even exists. You know that thing they were supposed to be hunting for. Maybe for the final scene Mat can play The Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B and we can finish with a rousing dance number.
Couple comments. While I agree overall with a lot of what you say as I am a huge book fan, I'm kinda shutting my brain off on their changes and trying to like what they do add that is good.
I thought the Teapot might be a ter'angreal, not the tea.
Verin never lied. Listen to what she said and Moiraine specifically comments on it.
While weird, I still love the Lanfear scene. She is a badass actress who is really killing the role. Moiraine got her power back. That stupid addition is gone, I honestly dont care how it was done.
Hated the Siuan character change, loved they added the Lan with Rand scene. Think the Aiel are amazingly on screen. The costume design for them is probably the best in show. Madelin is killing it as Egwene....Now I hope they eventually give us Rand or Mat....cuz they are basically non entities still.
I'm going to pretend the tea is ayahuasca.
isnt it sad though that for you to find it palatable. you have to ""shut your brain off"" when we could have gotten so much more even within the limitations imposed by Amazon. with so much clear run time wasted on completely pointless scenes. how much more good stuff could we have gotten. we are being slowly grinded into accepting slightly better then mid. sometimes worse then mid. And wether you enjoy the show or not. anyone that has any passing knowledge of writing has to see the flaws in it. in pacing. Im trying hard. I was finally on board after episode 6. to me this episode was a regression to season 1 bad.
This season has been 10x better than season one, and yet it still isn't good.
Thank You for your sense and sensibility on some ludicrous choices being made, inconsistent even with their own changes to the core story.
It’s as if the people making this TV Show are content to imagine their viewers as idiots, who have no capacity for critical thought and are more invested in being mollified with an overarching emphasis that more closely resembles contemporary societal proselytism, as opposed to the Source Material supposedly being adapted. Or, perhaps more heinously, are invested only as cheerleading lemmings who twist themselves into pretzels justifying the imbecilic adaptation, until they eventually just tumble over the critical cliff, into outright sycophancy.
For me this last Episode tipped the Show from much improved, eminently watchable, if still terrible television, into the domain of utter farce. The writing was entirely moronic, which led to most of the performances suffering, which even infected the rare good moments in just over an hour overripe with stinking continuity errors.
You’ve gone over many of these in detail, but one I want to touch on more closely (if I missed your emphasis I apologise for the rehash) is the conversation between Lan and Rand, where Lan accuses Rand of being selfish for disappearing after The Eye of The World.
As far as Rand knew, he had destroyed the Dark One and his inherent love and kindness led him to isolate himself from those he would be most devastated to cause any harm to come to, because of who he is or what he knows now he can do.
Never mind lambasting the adaptation, Lan attacking Rand makes absolutely no sense within the context of the story specific to the TV Show only. And this is only one of many utter stupidities that infect this Episode.
Even the most powerful dramatic moment between Egwene & Renna is completely stupid in isolation. Even if we limit ourselves to what has been established about sul’dam by the TV Show only, there is no world but one of scripting convenience where, after being threatened with Death, a sul’dam would simply walk away from the Damane that threatened her. She would surely leave her a blubbering mess through the power of the a’dam, to establish hierarchy while squelching any reigniting flame of resistance.
Despite that stupidity though, Egwene spits that line so powerfully, I still got chills… so it worked well enough in the moment.
It’s a pity the people making this show are more entangled in contemporary sensibilities, instead of showing proper respect to the material they have chosen to adapt. The best thing that remains to be said about it after Season 2 Episode 7, is that unfortunately, they are wasting a largely excellent Cast.
For the rest, it wallows in the range of laughable to inexcusably moronic.
Lastly, it’s impossible to have any respect for a work of scripted Adaptive Art that is more invested in taking metatextual shots at external criticism, as well as its own internal failings, than putting together a coherent narrative that respects its own conceits, never mind the Source Material it is allegedly based on.
How difficult would it be in adding some spine to the mc. Rand has been dealt the shorter end of the stick by these people. I would have been much happier if Rand would have atleast tried to stand up to Siuan, my heart skipped a beat anticipating but alas they "subverted" my expectation. The dragon is told he is powerful without the viewers experiencing it themselves. Not expecting any epic fights in the sky in ep 8.
@@abhishekmohanty7820 And they had setup exactly that, with what Logain told Rand about the amount of Power he can wield being an equaliser for not having enough time to learn. As that scene unfolded, I was definitely hoping Rand’s established raw strength would allow him to show some resistance.
Alas, not to be.
@@gearomkologenas5458 yeah, it's enough to have him show resistance. Have them shield him with seeming ease, and then show them start to strain and sweat while he is gathering himself as he rises back to his feet. A good contrast/comparison with Egwene showing that our heroes are tempered by adversity - Egwene and Rand are both being put under pressure by people who would enslave them, so you can do the cut back and forth between them thing the show likes.
@@DrakeBarrowthis show would have benefitted exceedingly by removing Rand's character entirely. Seems he is like a dead weight which the writers have to bear while moving their "enhanced" adaptation forward. The hatred doesn't need any alibi here.
One of the biggest problems with this show is how it does such a great disservice to the characters. Lan lacks any personal conviction, and defines himself by his relationship with Moiraine. Moiraine, instead of being the highly intelligent Stones master she is in the books, acts rashly and rude to everyone. In an interview, Rosamund Pike describes Moiraine as acting like a "stubborn teenager" and a "petulant child". It makes me wonder if Pike is also disappointed with how her character is being depicted. Imagine signing on to play a wise and brilliant mentor figure just to be given the role of someone who is arrogant, foolish, and full of doubt.
I love your two fluffy co-hosts :)
42:33 - "What does that mean?" It means the sea is always right!! Or something to that effect...
We may not get Game of Houses, but Amyrlin was told that the last time she was there they installed a new King on Sun throne. This is no GoT and Tower playing Game of Houses makes sense for viewers similar to Witcher and the Brotherhood. It may be also a nod to the falling of the House (Tower) and schism. For me, in books, Game of Houses was an interesting setting but was not much explored. More of the afterthought, rich bastards are scheming, what's new, if my memory serves me it was completely overshadowed by Elayne and Rand's love at first sight and sneaking into gardens.
I wonder if they are taking attributes and story lines from Elaida’s character in the books and dividing them up between Siuan & Liandrin? Maybe it’s Suian who will take Rand as prisoner & cage him later instead of Elaida?
Please become the senior editor for season 3!
if in control of the show only having Rand wake up from a nightmare after showing the book 1 prologue would make sense and this Rand a younger casted actor along with a younger cast for the other characters. Actual low 20s or 20s casted Aes Sedai etc and Staying to the actual source material.
Why did Lan think he needed to apologize to Moiraine? Other than telling Alanna about their mission, what did he do wrong? How did he fail her? If anything, Moiraine should be apologizing to him for the awful way she treated him.
It is so strange to hear of an adaptation of the Wheel of Time where the prophecies are all but forgotten. And the little bits we get are either a magic spell to resurrect Forsaken, or dumbed down distortions.
I just don't understand why. It would have been the perfect way to tell the audience about the stakes and motivations.
ps.: The prophecies referring to the Dragon Reborn as a "he" do not necessarily mean that he will be male. We need to remember that every single piece of the prophecies we hear is actually a translation of the original. It is entirely possible that (like many languages) the Old Tongue did not have different pronouns for males and females. It is actually interesting, that in the quotes I found, only the pronouns state that the Dragon Reborn is male.
Ups, I take that back. There is a line in the Essanic Cycle where it states that "the blind man shall stand upon his own grave". Though that is the Seanchan version, so it's accuracy is even more doubtful.
Rand falls to his knees when Suian channels at him not because of threads of air, she shields him.
Whenever Rand is shielded in the series he sinks to his knees defeated.
Yea, Suian Sanchez one of the weakest channellers in the book shields the dragon reborn, alone.
I look in at various reaction videos and it's interesting (again) to compare bookreaders' vs nonbookreaders' reactions. The showrunners are counting on the nonbookreaders, a curious choice having chosen such a prominent, best-selling property. But, as you point out repeatedly, the TV story is an incoherent story universe that either ignores, underplays, or distorts the careful, plausible world-building done in the books. They're counting on spectacle and a bit of undeveloped emotionality to kinda slide these inconsistencies and holes by their unknowing nonbook viewers. But the bookers can see the vast voids and warps.
I liked ep 6 because it was so focused on the damane/sul'dam process. They missed a big moment at the end with Maigan -- instead of being coherent enough to empathize with Egwene's "breaking", she should've just sat there blankly mumbling the damane mantras like she was apparently doing earlier in the episode. *That* would've shown where Egwene was headed on the brainwashing journey.
Some questions that ep 7 raised that I haven't seen in any reactions yet:
- why is Rand not TOTALLY PISSED OFF when he runs into Mat, especially when Mat is doing something so ephemeral? Mat abandoned his friends on the most important journey of their lives! And here he is dicing and having a good time!
- why will Moiraine and Siuan not admit that taking Rand to the Eye of the World was a REALLY BAD IDEA since it broke Ishy's seal and accelerated the entry of Forsaken and the end times? They would've had so much more time to train up Rand before the complications of dealing with meddling Forsaken.
- why is no one contrasting the obedience issues of the Amyrlin commanding a channeler to do something (via the Oath Rod) vs the sul'dam/damane doing the same thing? All kinds of conversations about authoritarianism in different forms to be had there.
Another thing I'm not getting, especially from the nonbookers, is why they like Mat or Perrin at all. Neither character has been developed much, and Perrin especially is a very weak, nonagented version of the Perrin from the books. I know nontoxic males are a thing now but c'mon, this is heroic fantasy, grow a pair, Perrin!
I thought Aviendah's toh would be for Jolene stealing her man when she implored her not to.
Even after reading the books I have no idea how Ji'e'toh works. It almost seems like culturally contracted schizophrenia for ginger desert ninjas.
@@gilian2587Really? That surprises me.
@@amys0482 Honor and duty never made sense to me in even the best of circumstances. As concepts, they seem to be a cultural construct that interferes with an individual's own freedom. If you look into the history of Taoism and how it was practiced in the old Chinese dynasties -- you can see how a cultural impetus of Honor and Duty can easily be used as a manipulative solidifying agent in class crystallization. And class crystallization leads to a monopoly of power in the upper classes; and the lack of a need to compete. This ultimately leads to the stagnation of a civilization.
@@amys0482 And in the Wheel of Time -- Ji'e'toh leads to a lot of wtf moments. Like Aviendha concluding that she has toh towards Elayne and the only sensible way to satisfy this toh is to kill Rand. Culturally contracted schizophrenia distilled into it's finest form.
@@gilian2587 Oh, well I think disagreeing with it is different from having no idea how it works.
Egwene is commanded to attack other Suldam and Damane to prove how strong she is???
I think in season 1 of the show Nynaeve channeled in the ways when machin shin appears. This gave them time to get out of the ways at Faldara.
This episode was not good, too many contradictory and confusing scenes. I agree with you about watching the show as getting some entertainment out of it but disappointed about all the deviations.
Enjoyed this episode with a few caveats - the really goofy Gatira prophesy should have been in season 1, why are the browns just chilling on their knowledge of the black ajah... it's a big deal, non? How did Siuan know where rand and co were going? Matts tripping scene was also really strange, don't feel like we've learnt enough about him for him to go darkside yet. Why is this show obsessed with telling us people want to bone - Perrin knowing one of the aiel is into girls is such useless writing 😂
No way, these writers are far better writers then Robert Jordan, and they are retelling the Wheel of Time the way it should have been told in the first place, you know, taking a flawed, barely known poor selling series of books and making a masterpiece of a show. 🤣
@@tiger35jbhopefully you find something else you enjoy the way I enjoyed this episode but also enjoyed the books 😊
No body said one of the ails one into girls just that would not care that peirn was taken maybe she likes skinny men?
Did you not know. this is Wheel of time Erotica Island by Rafe.
There should be 20 episodes each season, and an hour long if we want to capture the books
I don’t think Rafe understands how to build lore properly. The Horn itself hasn’t been built up, but equally important are the heroes of the Horn.
In the books, we hear about the Horn, Hawkwing, Birgitte, Gaidal Cain and more all in the first novel. It gives their coming a weight and impact that will be completely absent here.
I can’t speak for show-only watchers, but I’d imagine it will just be a bunch of random dudes coming to fight.
Well, when they make every great character unlikable especially changing the most fun character and making him evil with a terrible family, kill off characters that survive until the final book but then bring one back after the fan outrage, completely change the magic system and how it works, hate your main character because he is a sex crazed toxic male, over 10,000 pages to pick from but still feel the need to make 75% of the show new content.... Why is it you expect anything to make sense at this point?
I think the writers of this show could learn a lot from - gonna sound weird, but - Barbie. A lot of people really liked that movie and those that felt it wasn't for them generally just didn't watch it. The difference being, Barbie was always a female-leaning property, so few complained when the film came out really pro-women. It was expected. Would've been weird if it hadn't.
On the flipside, Wheel of Time was (at least at the beginning) a boys' adventure story. Ergo there's an expectation that any adaptation will be 'for the boys'. It's the rug-pull that got to people.
Bottom line being: If the show runners didn't want to adapt a book series that was written about boys, for boys, they should've picked a different property. Doing otherwise is just weird, and begs the question 'Well, what did you expect...?'
We are given the mind set of the Seanchen by Renna (I am in awe of Mendez-Jones portrayal) The empress (may she live forever) is to unite the world against the Dark one. She is collecting weapons to use just like the Amerlyn is doing to the dragon. I look forward to see the portrayal of her.
Siuan uses the Royal Throne on Cairhein for an interview???
At this point, I'm rooting for the trollocs
Virwn doesn't lie. Didn't you hear me moiraine say, nice choice of wording?
Absolutely hate the ayahuasca trip, SO STUPID! Almost as stupid as Lan knowing more about the one power than Moiraine. Both of which compete w/ the stupidity of Rand, Lan, Moiraine running off w/ Lanfear into the ways.
Rand spent more screen time on his knees than on his feet this episode. It was weird how 2 different times he was on his knees throughout these long monologs and conversations.
Rand attempting to draw his sword on Lan when he simply asked for his sword was cringey overreaction, just to have a moment to talk sword forms. Rand hasn't skillfully used his sword 1 time in the entire show, but he is gonna duel Lan???
The name fits as we are seeing how there are motions going around between different aspects
From the Two Towers having its events coming to a boil to how Rand and each of the characters are having their stories told with pieces being moved and sides taken
Use the way of Game of Houses as Teams such as how everyone says "I am Team_____"
People are deciding on where they stand...which House they are backing
Call it Taking Sides or New Alliances. Daes Daemar is specific to political power and the intrigue of thrones.
Viewership minutes for the first week of Season 2 were about 60% lower than those for the first week of Season 1 (according to Nielsen's streaming data). They'll probably continue to lose more viewers if they keep on character assassinating Rand and Mat.
It's also mid writers strike with basically zero promotion from cast etc so they'll likely give it some leeway if the finale is a better numbers grab
@@GilescowdemdemCast promotion sometimes hurts as much as it helps. And besides that, it has not seemed to hurt One Piece or Ahsoka.
@@Gilescowdemdem that wouldn't have made a difference
@@Gilescowdemdemthe only people who pay attention to cast promotions are show apologists who have the show on constant playback to pad watch minutes. But I’m sure this excuse will be used just like “but covid” was the excuse for season 1.
Another WoT episode through which to squirm impatiently - and, this time, I fell asleep halfway through Amy's review. But that wasn't her fault.
After FIFTEEN hours of convoluted circuity graced by some good moments but marred by many bad ones, where are we, really? Nowhere. The good witches and the bad witches are still fighting over a male Dorothy - nothing else has changed in this pale excuse of a fantasy world except for a new power now and then emerging (as one did in this particular episode) from the writers' backsides. The "Rings of Power" moved furiously by comparison even though it, too, eventually returned to its starting point. Have none of these Hollywood hacks ever heard of development?
How is a show enjoyable if things don't make sense? xD
Something I forgot to ask about this forgettable show - why does everyone speak in a hoarse whisper? Is it supposed to equate to drama? I can barely understand it without headphones, and the stupid Amazon app, which I use on my smart TV, is very bad at enabling subtitles. In fact, it's very bad at practically everything, notably the lack of thumbnails when rewinding or fast-forwarding, and the frequent absences of the "Skip" functions during the recaps and intros. And it frequently crashes. Netflix is much more reliable and user-friendly.
The books are no paragon of storytelling. So much frustration because they suck at communicating, rather than having conflicting motivations. I love the books, but Im not dogmatic.
I don't review the books here, but agree they are certainly not perfect; however, I think they are better than some seem to believe, despite their flaws.
This is one of my favourite episodes in what has been a strong season. It was a bit rushed in places but advanced the plot quite well. I'm looking forward to the season finale next week and hope they knock that out of the park. They better not have Hopper be the one to fight the Dark One, though you never know.
S6 was my favourite episode by far.
I disagree, this episode is not the worst this season, but it's not even remotely good or coherent. The writing in this show is High school drama class level is quality.
I'd say the last episode was my favourite of the season and this was my least favourite.
@@tw7998 That -- ... ... ... ... is a reasonable opinion.
@@tiger35jb That -- ... ... ... ... is also a reasonable opinion.
BOX OF WINE !
Wait:- did you just assert that you can only like the show if you didn't love the books or don't like thinking? :) I was hooked on the books, i have read them countless times and i am on a re-read right now. I am enjoying S2 in particular. There are differences, and some inconsistencies but i recognise the plot points advancing. The 'villains' have been fleshed out more fully than the books did and are the best part of the show. If people are disappointed that the adaptation isn't closer to the books i think that is fine. Insinuating people cant love both the books or show however? Or asserting that people who like the show like 'braindead content'? :-that is an odd assertion although you are entitled to an opinion of course.
People who like the show, do like 'braindead content'. As consumes, we the customer, need to demand better quality. The only reason I still watch this trash is because I have read the books, I would have stopped watching probably around episode 3 in season 1.
I'd concur. Let's be honest, the writing isn't The Bear or Succession level good but it doesn't have to be. Sometimes shows can just be fun and enjoyable because you see characters you've held dear your entire life brought to life (so far, some with much more screen time than others...ahem the boys need more love please) but I wouldn't call it brain-dead content.
@@tiger35jbyou win, I think. No one will ever be as unhappy as you watching the show.
Yep, they have the huge task of adapting 14 huge novels with 2400+ named characters, some fairly cardboard villains and countless sub-plots. I sure don't love all of their decisions so far, but as a book reader I think they're doing a great job with the major character beats and story lines given the limitations of media, time, technology, money and those who hold the purse strings.
You can't really make a faithful adaptation that meets everyone's head-canon with those limits, but dammit - I still care about the characters now, and I really want to know what happens on this turn of the wheel. Moderating my expectations was also made easier once Season 2 started - they've clearly been improving as a team and they're getting some pretty topnotch performances.
I totally get it if you hate it - Rings of Power was that for me. Yuck! I rewatched LOTR instead. I have no need to hatewatch what I find to be trash and be miserable lol
I love brainless TV sometimes. You can totally like this show and like the books. It's just not very coherent writing if you think about it.
So Suian is Eliada now?
No, it's a way of undermining Siaund leadership i.e she had the dragon and lost him after plotting to break tower law. Sets it up for elaida to challenge her as amyrlin
@@Gilescowdemdemhow was she breaking tower law? Other than being a complete tyrant.
Tower law says they're supposed to cage the dragon. She plotted with Mor so Mor could have time with him and train him. mor obviously failed so she changed her mind. All this information was in the episode...
***mild book spoilers** this is the set up for Siuan's fall. Elaida is in the show, they have cast her already. I thought they had merged liandrin and elaida but was wrong. I also think we are getting the Finn. The scene with mat hanging suggests that.
@@tw7998exactly this
Maybe the game is between Morian and suian, Rand, forsaken, and black ajah. The beginning had a lot of unsaid words and it reminds of siaun and lidia faking their arguments to get information
Sure. Daes Damar was invented by Aes Sedai. But I still feel that the Aes Sedai politicking looks more like checkers than chess.
@@amys0482 The political maneuvering of the Bene Gesserit from the Dune series of books seemed a lot closer to Chess than the tower intrigue. The tower intrigue mostly seemed to reflect the politics of academia -- make yourself look better than thine neighbors for fame and profit (coughs-- reputation and grant money -- -- I did mean reputation and grant money).
23:00 - What? You didn't like the peyo-tea?
Nice to see Hayley Mills again. I enjoyed her in Disney movies growing up in the 60s. I almost like the dark villains more than the main protagonists. Rand is such a wimp - why doesn't he stand up to Siuan like Egwene stands up to the Seanchan? She has become such a Mary Sue.
The villains are a highlight for me in the show. I am definitely rooting for the forsaken now. ***MILD BOOK SPOILERS IF YOU HAVENT READ THEM** How many forsaken do you think we will have? Some are suggesting Lanfear and Semirhage will be merged.
@@tw7998 yeah, I read somewhere that there might be 8. Combining Lanfear and Semirhage make sense. Maybe we're going to get a new one each season, if they don't get canceled.
So Egewene is now a Mary Sue just because she is not being broken immediately? I can understand that some people consider her one in the later books due to the content of her in the tower. But nothing we have seen in the show so far makes her a Mary Sue. Certainly not being the only one of the three allowing herself to be captured.
@@arleenm7367 As a start I would say you should cut any of forsaken whose name doesn't immediatly come to mind. Half of them are only final bosses at the end of the books As a casual bookreader I remember Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien, Graendal, Rahvin, Demandred, Semirhage, Mesanna and Asmodean. Mesanna doesn't really make an appearance, cutting herout wouldn't hurt much. Same for Rahvin if you are willing to loose the entire Morgase-plotline. Semirhage is mostly relevant due to Rand loosing his hand.
In the infamous Stepin episode we see 8 statues when he wards of the Forsaken.
I guess I'm just comparing Egwene's defiance of the Sul'dam to Rand's pathetic reaction to the Amyrlin Seat. Her threatening to kill the the Sul'dam? Why wasn't she severely punished for that? On the other hand why isn't Rand standing on his feet and being defiant or (at least pushing back) towards the Amyrlin? If he's really the Dragon Reborn his character should be stronger.
I used to watch wheel of time and it seemed interesting. I never read the books but Internets didn't like it. Maybe I'll return to it
Thank you for these videos. As a book lover. A Robert Jordan fan (NOT SANDERSON). I don’t think I will ever watch this show.
I need you to have an indepth review/conversation with someone who loves the show and thinks its a geeat adaptation. It would be like conducting interviews at a maga rally. 😮
But seriously, you do a great job with these reviews. Keep it up!
I am really not trying to get people who like the show to hate it. If you like it, don't mind me. I am pointing out what doesn't work from a critical perspective for people who want to like it but can't explain why they don't (I felt this way about the Star Wars prequels) or have read the books and are frustrated that this is how it is being "adapted". It is closer to fanfiction than a different turning of the wheel.
@@amys0482 I just mean that there's such an interesting split in the viewership. Some people see the show and it's incoherence is maddening, like nails on a chalk board. Others watch it and are like, "yeah, Lanfear is blowing stuff up! So cool!"
It's wonderfully interesting that people can see the same phenomenon and come away with such different reactions. I would love to see someone who loved this episode go scene by scene with you and stand up to the critique. I genuinely don't understand their perspective but would like to.
God i am so glad i noped out during season 1 this show judt sounds terrible in every aspect
Your loss.
Not much of a lose.@@ArthurSullivan-cq4uw
Your wisdom does you credit.
I would suggest... skipping season 1... and just start watching season 2... as the show itself tries to forget that season 1 exists
@@Rimidlav71 The problem with that is that they would have no idea who any of these characters are and no context for the story if they skip season 1. Season 1 provides poor context and story -- but it least it has a little.
Vérin didn't lie.
Rafe and the showrunners hate the source material. They hate Rand, Mat, and Perrin the most. This is the Jake Skywalker Rand complete with throwing away the lightsaber and drinking the sea cow blue milk.
Nope.
Most fans of the Show ... are not book readers ... are smart ... enjoyed season 1 .. and this episode.
It is only toxic butt hurt man baby book readers ... who are constantly bitching about the Show not being a direct adaptions of the books.
Stop watching & reviewing this Show ... if you believe people who enjoyed this episode have to be morons.
Again. Most fans of the Show ... are not book readers ... and not morons.
I didn't call anyone a moron. I said the show is fun if you watch it uncritically.
Does your programming require you to capitalize the word “show”?
Regardless, people don’t need your permission or approval to state their opinions…
@@Mahalleinir lol. You have just proved my point.
Why don't you "Critical Thinking" minority stop watching a Show and you have to tell majority that they can only enjoy the Show "uncritical" mind.
Enough with the BS. Call a spade a spade.
You passively aggressive trolls are calling the majority .... morons.
For Liberals only care about me, myself & I my opinions, beliefs, values, wants, feelings and interpretations. You will ignore any fact that that opposes what you believe, misquote, manipulate or simple be anal with words to get emotive responses and support from the ... moronic masses. lol.
You are strawmanning Amy’s video. Unfortunately this tactic is all too common these days.
How would you know the demographics of the show, I can assure you there are many book readers as in 80 million books sold, and your petty insults do nothing for your argument that the show is enjoyable. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including yours. I do not love many of the changes because it goes against its core story and character issues. You know the spirit of the books. You're simply casting genialized aspersions against people you do not agree with, I call that toxic. I find the certain parts of the show enjoyable myself and do like some of the changes. We are well aware of there being a need for changes but just want some more aligned with the spirit of the books and advances the show story more to the point.