Great video. The "cutting of the fingernails" was yet another example of what I see as "spectacle over substance" (forgot where I read that originally, but I think it was in regard of season 1 of WoT, RoP). On some level it's like "woow, they took her status", but since we have no clue what her status even was before and how it even changed (she is still completely in command afterwards apparently), it's basically a pointless scene accomplishing nothing meaningful within the story they created :(
You're right about it at least bringing people to the book series; thank you for that positive last thought. My partner asked to listen to the books with me despite not particularly enjoying season one, and a friend read the first book because he enjoyed the first season. They both became shocked and somewhat aghast at the adaptation, wondering why they would cut so much excitement and characterization, not to mention mangle the worldbuilding. Anyway, thank you for another interesting and helpful take.
Your videos are really great mini-case studies on writing, logical consistency, characterization and just enough "I wish the books were represented better" that I find myself hate-watching the show just to have context for these videos.
I apologize for being a bit snide with this comment, but I think we may just see Gaul, plus Bain and Chiad, come in later. Mainly because I don't think Rafe can refrain from an opportunity for Bain and Chiad to man-bash Gaul. I don't know if it's just me, but I'm finding it really weird that in almost every scene where people are portrayed as having been rendered unconscious, they're always in a semi sitting position with their head lolled to the side, and seemingly always the same side. Lan, after being drugged by suicide man. Then the ladies in the Ways before they wake up, and again in the forest after the Seanchan set them down. I actually laughed out loud when Liandrin arrived back at the Tower and Verin catches her. Liandrin immediately, in false nonchalance, leans against a pillar and smiles like, "What? I wasn't doing anything nefarious". It immediately reminded me of one of those classic comedy scenes where the good guy is following the bad guy, then the bad guy looks back and the good guy immediately leans against something, looking everywhere but at the other guy, pretending to be grossly interested in whatever it is.
Until she works out why it's coming out mono (maybe only recording to 1 channel?) you can enable mono audio in windows to make it play it in both sides of headphones. Then just turn it back off after.
my left ear is lonely. I think the sound is in mono :) great review tho random comment. The mouth sewing felt very World of dreams and not "one powery"
This latest video of yours, excellent as always, answered an important question for me - how do the kitties descend from their basket? (That was quite a leap of faith, I must say, especially if there's no furniture behind your chair - all joking aside, I do hope no injury was suffered.) I wouldn't say this episode was the best of the series, but it was without question the best of S2. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it seemed like a completely different show. Things started happening at last, with a minimum of pointless dialogue. And the first scene, at least, was impressive from a production point of view. The ambition to achieve GoT's grandeur was clearly evident, notwithstanding WoT's critical failure to equal that show's imitation of reality. I thought Valda, the Whitecloaks leader, was killed in S1E5 - but what do I know? Liandrin's jawline is practically a character in its own right, and the term "eidetic memory," put in the mouth of a faux-medieval character, is as clueless as would've been "photographic memory" - as clueless as the use of the word "adrenaline" elsewhere in the series. (Whatever else they may be, the showrunners are no linguists.)
All of this. I was startled the first time kitten leapt from the top of the cat tree to the floor but she's done it several times now so she seems to think this is the best way. No injuries. I know Valda didn't die, but since Egwene stabbed him, I would think his vendetta would be against her not Perrin (in the show...) but I suppose people can be unreasonable. I think photographic memories are lazy writing 90% of the time, but if they really wanted to have that, they should have has her say she remembers everything perfectly and can reproduce what she has only glanced at.
@@amys0482 Good to hear about the kitten. Both have blindingly fast reflexes - their strikes at the catnip are so quick that they're practically invisible. And Valda is one of the better characters, so I'm glad he survived what looked to me like a deep stab wound between his collarbones. And about total recall - one of my favorite movies, with one of my favorite actresses (who gives an incredible performance in it), is TEMPLE GRANDIN (2010). It's touching.
Hey Amy, appreciate your take. I'm not sure if you know this, but your commercials come in stereo, but your commentary comes in Mono on my earbuds. Not a big deal, just wasn't sure if you were aware. I'm not a book reader and get some clarification from the show by watching those that know the show explain things the show doesn't explain well. Thanks for all the great input.
What really confused me is how old Anaveare, Moiraine and Barthanes are supposed to be. Considering the Anavaere actress is 73 (but would pass for younger), I would have placed Moiraine and her in their late 60ies. But then Barthanes is introduced: He says it has been 20 years since he saw Moiraine last and she says, then he was as big as the table, meaning he is in his early 20es. So Anavaere would have been quite old, when she birthed him, like 40-50. Or are they supposed to be younger?! I am confused.
@@amys0482 I just realized that they may have aged up Moiraine, so that they could show New Spring scenes without having to explain why Rosamund Pike looks to old to be Accepted.
And Moiraine’s warning on not touching anything in the waste in s1e8, and in the next scene Rand is sleeping in the waste. I know I am very demanding with my media, but details are important and a little consistency would be appreciated
@@denglongfist4270 thank you! Much appreciated. I'm starting to think about S2...it's gonna be MUCH longer given all the material (likely a 2-parter), but I think already there's at least 1 hour to cut.
As usual, an excellent analysis! A few observations: - I didn't get why Elyas would lead Perrin back to the village and not into the wilderness instead. - I really struggle with the show's ethnic depictions here. I remember Errol's panic at seeing Rand. Obviously there are traits that Aiel share, but I can't for the life of me figure out which ones. - It seems like Yessica stole pages from the novice register for Verin to peruse? Or did she copy the page from memory? That was really weird. - My worst scene was the Liandrin hand-over to Suroth. The directing of this scene was really bad. Retconning lore established in season 1. Illogical behaviour from the Seanchan soldiers (where they drop the girls). V ery B-movie pyrotechnics, and the "5 seconds escape". - It is worth noting that "embracing the Source" is not a concept that the show has presented, probably for practical reasons, but it will have an effect on the dynamics of channeling. - a nitpick for Aviendha: she seems rather relaxed sitting by a lake 😉 - I sense an internet storm coming if they go ahead and have Ryma (black woman) be broken to the a'dam 😅 - Don't badmouth Lanfear's dom attire! We likes it 😁 This episode was a 6/10 for me. I don't understand the show's rave reviews on RT. I think the show is coasting on the enthusiasm of book readers.
Honestly, I think that from a biological perspective if nothing else, the Aiel probably SHOULD be somewhat darker skinned. They've been living in basically the Sahara Desert for nearly four thousand years after all. If nothing else, they would be so darkly tanned that they may as well be darker-skinned.
@@fanghur except redheads don't really tan all that often even generations down the line unless they're mixed heritiage, so biologically it doesn't make too much sense since they're again isolated
@@fanghur I don't care about Aiel skin tone. I care that they _share_ features. The show insists (sometimes very dramatically) that Rand looks like an Aiel, but only characters on-screen can tell. Make their eyes glow, make them blue, whatever. Just do SOMETHING so I can see the resemblance for myself without needing to be told.
The whole point of the Aiel being pale gingers in the books is to indicate that there is an obvious problem here. Since when are desert dwellers pale gingers? It is supposed to immediately remind the reader that something happened for this race of people to end up in the waste (the Breaking) as they clearly don’t belong there. I also don’t care so much about how they look as long as it’s consistent (which it isn’t) but the book logic for this would have been good to include.
For me it’s like listening to a song sung out of tune. You know how it’s supposed to sound and it grates on your ears hearing it. I’ve stopped watching it after ep 3 this season. I’ll just watch the reviews. Thank you for your thoughts on this show.
That's exactly what the great Mark Twain said about James Fenimore Cooper's writing, which he compared to a bad musical performance - you know what he's trying to say, and you know he's not saying it. "Good writing means using the right word, not its first cousin."
Honestly, it's a bummer if Semirhage gets cut. By in large, most of the female Forsaken are considerably more unique and distinctive than most of the male ones. Really the only one that I wouldn't really care if they cut/combined is Mesaana. But Rahvin, Sammael, Balthamal, and Be'lal could easily be reduced to one I think. The only male Forsaken I personally found to be overly interesting were Ishamael, Demandred (and by extension *spoiler*), and Asmodean.
Agree with that. But I think we are only getting the three girls. I might have guessed some of the wrong boys, but there are only 8 seals. Ishy, Lanfear, Moggy, Graendel, and "the boys" (4) make 8.
I feel Semirhage will be cut, not because of a potential conflation with Lanfear that Amy mentions, but because Ishy is himself taking her place as the one influencing the Seanchan/Suroth. Asmodean, unfortunately, may get the cut because it seems like they are going to give the job of teaching Rand to Logain.
@@lazerbungalow I think Ishy is taking Semirhage's place among the Seanchan but Lanfear is absorbing some of her personality and other plot arcs. Regardless, I don't think Semirhage is in the story.
A review longer than the episode itself? Yes please! Looking forward to this :) For sure the strongest episode of the show so far, yet still with it's logic problems. But it passes verisimilitude on the first pass.
One additional late thought: the reason this episode feels stronger is because plot- and production-wise, there's just more *motion* happening, and a lot of it outdoors. Being on location with characters moving place to place lends a lot of dynamism to the plot, vs shot-reverse shot dialogs on an indoor set. It makes you more invested in what happens next.
Yes, the tension is better. There is more action with higher stakes. It is still riddled with inconsistencies and nonsense but it was more fun to watch than Lan peeing on a tree
Thank god you said it, I had it with the show slamming people against the wall, particularly in the last episode with Liandrin ... when you throw someone 10 meters across into a stone wall you smash that person's skull and spine into 100 pieces
I don't really blame WoT show for this. Audiences have been well-trained by TV and movies for that past 40+ years that being thrown 10 feet into a solid object is not that bad, that people are both easy to knock unconscious and that it's not all that damaging. It's a conceit of drama to which I've largely reconciled myself. As long as the show doesn't take great pains to be very physically realistic in general, I don't really care about it. If the show had taken pains to be realistic, though, I'd certainly be annoyed by the inconsistency.
Love this video! That's so interesting, I've never watched any show or even movie twice, I guess. Only some childhood movies with my kids, and even then, I'm not really watching closely. For me now it's not even watchable, I can't keep concentration. I've watched the first season of the show first and then bought first three books for my son, he started reading and asked me to join him for a year. Now I'm ahead of him on book six. And now I can't watch the show at all.
P.s. Please mix your audio down to mono. The sound is only coming out of the right channel ever since you moved to this side mic setup, and with earphones it's mildly annoying.
I agree that this episode was much more watchable than some of the others. Things are actually happening. The lack of things happening is often a problem in the books...I felt like it was very odd that the show would have similar problems (even earlier than the books did). However, the idea that the show will portray the three women who are in love with Rand as being all in love with Rand in the way that happens in the books...? No way. This show is far too embarrassed of anything that smacks of a male fantasy to present it as anything but a thing to mock or a negative personality trait. It will not allow multiple of its leading women obsess over a a single man's affections with the sort of harem-ish suggestion of the books.
Around 32:00 it's worse that you describe. I can't recall the exact episode (somewhere around 6), but Moiraine explicitly states in S1 that Rand shouldn't worry about dreams because they can't hurt you. I recall it (but now I'm going to have to rewatch to make sure I'm not misremembering) because it was so very wrong, but it's something book-Moiraine could have said since as far as I know at that point of the story she didn't know better, but S2E5 mean show-Moiraine did (and was lying?)
It particularly bothered me that Moiraine basically just kills those two innocent people by commandeering their horses in the worst way possible. Like, she could have just taken all of the horses instead of killing one and then they just set the horses free once they get further away. I don't like that it seems that if she was smarter she could have avoided the (very brutal) deaths of innocents. I understand sometimes the characters are put in places where people *must* die, but I think it's pretty lame and lazy to make people die for no reason (other than "WOW MUH SHOCK VALUE"). Moiraine death toll just keeps climbing
And also, the mouth sewing thing really bothered me for the same reason you mentioned (although maybe it didn't bother you as much, which is fine @amys0482) in that it doesn't seem to make any sense in something even resembling the magic system of the Wheel of Time :'(
sorry, I know I'm ranting to nowhere.... but isn't it weird that Perrin is somewhat flirting with a girl only a few months after murdering his wife??! haha
Oh, and one last thing, I make UA-cam videos and what not so if you need help solving your audio issue, let me know. Not sure what the easiest way to get ahold of you would be.
I don't get the mouth sewing, because people would ask the victim who had done this to her and she could write it out. That would draw way more attention, than leaving her alone or dead
remember when the writers wanted to make moiraine the main character (skipping the book where she was the main character), it's ironic that the parts of the story they seemed to like the most they did the most damage to
Another terrible inconsistency with the writing in reference to the Seanchan and their display of ruthless aggression. Turok states that they have returned to bring all under one banner in order to prepare for the last battle. So you think the best way to arrive as saviors is to blast the coastlines with Tsunamis? Are we supposed to think that it was just Suroth’s idea to knock on the door with tidal waves to announce their arrival? Just demonstrates they have no idea what they are doing from one episode to the next or one season to the next.
How the heck is Valda suddenly reappearing... after a death blow... NOT a thing? What? He just magically healed himself, like "Selene"? Or maybe Egwene cried on him after she stabbed him? Barely an inconvenience, indeed.
I am notoriously bad at pronunciation. I make up how words sound all the time. But probably when I learned how siuan was supposed to be pronounced and started applying it elsewhere.
I was giving season 2 a chance but I think I'm done. Ishamael saying that Mat has been his from the start shows me that show Mat is not what I want to see. The fact that they are changing a character so much for a "redemption act" shows me that this is not for me. I'm glad others are enjoying it but I can't.
I think the show is talking down to it's audience all of the time. GoT already proved that this sort of simplification and general character reduction is unnecessary. People have no problem following complex book plots or hidden motivations, but this show is intent on proving otherwise, just like The Rings of Power. It's just sad, and more to the point, very bad.
It feels like a show written for casual viewers who have the TV on in the background as they scroll Tiktok on their phones. If so, I suppose the simplistic plot, lack of coherence, and continuity errors won't matter for the intended audience.
I disagree with this - as a complete stranger to the books, I don't think the show simple at all. In fact, I have only the vaguest idea of what's going on and who's in charge and how the magic works, and no longer bother trying to keep up. The execrable "Rings of Power" was a paragon of clarity in comparison. I just go with flow, in large part to enjoy Amy's reviews, which I find at least as entertaining despite her infinitely smaller resources. (I didn't have a clue, for example, that the Seanchan are a seafaring people.)
@@waltergold3457 good feedback. I guess my point is that the show isn't concerned about things like developing a logical plot, or informing viewers about the background lore, or getting its continuity accurate. That is common for a show that expects its casual viewers to have it on as background noise. But I can see that for a viewer paying attention and trying to understand the story and the world, it must be very confusing.
@@ThumbMerrilin "A show written for casual viewers who have the TV on in the background as they scroll Tiktok on their phones..." - I think you've just put your finger precisely on what's wrong with a lot of modern entertainment. 🙂
It's definitely improving. It helps tremendously to give concrete details of the WoT world so that viewers have at least a chance of understanding the import of the characters. It still feels more like Nynaeve's story than Rand's. The Seanchan have a couple of interesting aspects. One is that they have no accent. Given their distance in time and space from the cultures shown so far, that's rather remarkable. The other is that, if wokeism was truly guiding the show, then the Seanchan's invasion could be a chance to explore in barely disguised rhetoric the evils of colonialism and the rights of the dispossessed. Maybe they'll get around to it. But right now there is hardly a peep about the public purpose of the invasion.
@@amys0482 Part of the problem is that I think "making the show woke" isn't a motivation at all. The people running the show have certain perspectives (as everyone running any show does), and those perspectives make their way into the show. It's an outgrowth of perspective rather than some conscious thing; they recognize things that are "bad" in the book from that perspective, and they try to change those things (poorly). It's also demonstrably not really all that "woke" given how much of social justice culture it does ignore (i.e., race: it seems to have a color-blind view of race, which is very much not acceptable in the currently popular "woke" culture). It has some pretty distinct perspectives on gender, much moreso than other elements one might consider "woke."
concerning your last few comments. I always thought the best way to do the wheel of time is an animated miniseries. hour long episodes, take as long as you need to rather than restricting episodes like amazon has done. voices are far easier to replace than full actors if the need arises. and I would stick mostly with the books, maybe with slight tweaks where there is ambiguity and inconsistency. I would be over the moon for that.
I think Ishamael being closely tied to the Seanchan is not too far from the lore of the novels. He was the one who turned Artur Hawkwing against the Aes Sedai and also the one who sent Luthair Paendrag west to seek new territory. It would make sense that after returning in this third age he would seek them out. Of course at this time in the novels he is Ba'alzamon, but out of all the things I detest in this show this is one of my lesser gripes.
Moraine's sister's age makes no sense. They established that their uncle still started the Aiel War. Men and women can live into their 70s and sometimes 80s without the the one power. Who would let a 70+ year old on to a battlefield? If he wasn't on the battlefield then blood snow couldn't happen. So let's assume the king is of 70 years old for the war at max. With a more likely age being in the 40s or 50s. For Moraine's father to not be the king he has to be younger, so if the brothers are close in age then the oldest Moraine's father could be is in his 60s. If we assume the painting is of Moraine and her sister. Then Moraine is in her 40s and her sister is in her 20s during the war. The absolute oldest Moraine can be is in her 50s if her parents had her when they were teenagers. Moraine being in her 40s during the Aiel War also lines up with her age in the leaked s1e1 script. More realistically the king should have been in his 40s or 50s which would have Moraine being in her 20s to 30s. Her sister being a child or teenager. Which would line up more with the books... Either way her sister can't be in her 70s.
I was going off the age of the actress and that scene where they show her waking up very old and putting on a wig. But they haven't given us all the details. I just suspect they don't add up.
@@amys0482 they don't but I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was saying you are right. When Moraine and her sister are talking their uncle starting the Aiel War comes up. The painting establishes a minimum of ~20 year age gap if not 30 years between Moraine and her sister. By stressing that Aes Sedai live longer than normal humans without stating how long normal humans live they imply that they live as long as we do. I used all the info provided by the show to do my estimates.
Laman could have been any age, he wasn’t a front line soldier. Not sure of the progression of the Aiel war, but the simplest track would be Aiel invade Cairhein, the city holds for a while, then the king retreats across the river. The Aiel follow and continue to gain ground slowly over time as the other nations come to Laman’s defense, the advance of the Aiel slows and allows even more distant nations to join the other side… the Aiel can’t stop a retreat but they are able to stop Laman from entering Tar Valon and eventually they overrun the defenders and reach the Pavilion of Laman, kill him and take his sword on the slopes of the Dragonmount.
Damane didn't know the shield weave at first. In fact they don't know alot of weaves that can't be used in war. It makes sense liadrin wouldn't want to reveal anything to the seanchan and dropped it before leaving the ways. Its strange they took loial as a slave. The seanchan treat ogiers very definitely. As for the shape of the collars apparently its so the actors aren't at risk of breaking their necks
didn't watch season 2 and won't. but wasn't it established in the first season that channeling inside the Ways attracts Machin Shin? And isn't holding a shield on several people channeling?
I loved this episode for the wrong reason. Moraine: We have 4 horses in the stable. Rand take one I need to kill the other 2 so Lanfear doesn't follow us. Lanfear reaching the stable: Clever!!! Hahaha how is this clever, instead taking all 4 horses. Riding two and having the the other two as backup to jump on. Show producers probably think, their audience are bunch of idiots.
I doubt they will remove Semirhage. She's one of the female Forsaken with the most book time and actions that actually affect Rand, literally. Semirhage, Moghedien, Lanfear, Graendal are likely staying. Messana is likely the goner.
There are only 8 seals and 8 statues. Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedian, Graendal and "the boys". I might be wrong about which boys, but Semirhage is toast. Her character arc is being split between Ishamael (manipulating the Seanchan) and Lanfear.
I admit this season is "better", only because it is not so aggressively bad. Based upon what it is the show, I do not even get why they need the "dragon". He does not do anything and cannot beat anyone. Defenders say "oh, because he isn't trained!", but that was not a problem when five female novices destroyed an entire army. It seems arbitrary when "training" is needed. The only way to enjoy this is to say this is loosely based on Wheel of Time
What is missing in the show so far are scenes from common folks talking about gossip and the weather acting strange, gossip acts as a fire spread of uncertainty and panic inside this world. Maids talk with customers information spreads, false dragon tarmon'gaidon, black ajah are the main three. However what we gain is more depth on the villain side this could be doable if they remove side plots as well as side characters. They have taken a bold action with Min and made her gift into a curse that she is willing to do anything to get rid off. As a show these characters need to be interesting and have problems to solve so I can somewhat understand were changes comes from, but it is very different from book Min. Mat's actor understands his character almost like he is in the books himself somewhat scary but very welcomed. Moiraine is kinder in the books mostly because she is much younger, as well as the boys she is trying to protect. This is harder to judge because a Moiraine that thought she was stilled would have a panic reaction as well. I havent decided if this Moiraine is book accurate or not.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!! I've been saying since season 1: What are the global stakes? Why is this all so important? They totally ignored the world and only focused on inter-personal antagonism. That is so frustrating!!
Great work Amy! Very thoughtful and detailed. This episode was the first one I actually liked. I had to finally just let go of considering it as an adaption but more an interpretation of the books. This mental gymnastic allows me to consider it a branching story like the portal stones. This is a version of the story. I do think the showrunner thinks he is smarter than Mr. Jordan and Sanderson based on his own interview comments but at the end of the day it is what it is. I would love to see a really detailed adaption like you said in my lifetime but not holding my breath on that. Seeing how poorly they are doing some things has only fueled my love of the books and I am rereading them now, nearly done book three already. The books will always stand on their own merits and the show should be able to do that as well. What you kept saying about maybe not liking the changes but it being interesting is also key for me. If they can at least make it interesting I will keep watching.
The showrunner comes off as smug and arrogant. And with what we know of how they spend the budget in season 1 it's the worst kind of showrunner. No respect for the source material, no respect for the fans, terrible at his job, and not being able to see it. Combine that with his comments about 70% of the book fans finding the show better than the books and we know that he's either delusional or a liar, and there's certainly no way he'll change his way. Rafe Judkins is the worst kind of showrunner for a fantasy show we could get.
@@theupperechelon7634 agreed. His comments immediately after S1 finale in which he is giving himself praises was what made up my mind not to watch this anymore. That there are changes in an adaptation, I can agree, I am not looking for 1:1, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the entire season 1 and my enjoyment of the show diminished (sometime drastically) with each episode
I might agree this was the best episode so far, but its in no way good imo. What helps is that there is no mopey Lan and no Alanna sexual adventures with her warders. The bar is low as you mentioned
I mean Alanna is one of the best things about the show. At least she brings in some colour and dynamic. And it’s good to finally see some good polyamory relationships on screen.
After a reread, I decided Perrin and Min were a very good match. Needless to say, I never liked Faile joining the story, the whole thing is poorly executed and her character is abusive. Rand’s affair with Min was unnecessary. And Rand marrying two women would have been more consistent with the Aiel and I don’t mind that element added to the story.
There was no harem. Rand spends almost no time with Elayne in the books and sleeps with her once. Rand spends almost no time romantically with Avi and sleeps with her twice. The girls talk amongst themselves about the idea of sharing him but Rand dies before we find out if it could work. Rand in his head/dreams often thinks about Elayne and Avi but there is no physical element. It should also be noted that Elayne and Avi were the instigators of sex and not Rand.
...while Min was his only true lover, who kept him kind of sane and was a vulnerability for him as well. She is the romance that should not be skipped. Elyane and Avidenda could have a romance with each other though, playing up their connection to a life-partner one.
If Marx was living today, he'd be rolling around in his grave. Randy Newman said that once upon a time. To go by this show, Gullgutten wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of Robert Jordan.
The show-runner is "in love" with the concept of "unreliable narrator"... using it too much. There is a cascade of "butterfly effect" consequences from this... This is how (partially) Moiraine becomes Moron... they've made her the "UN" too many times. Another butterfly effect is that viewers can't trust ANYTHING Moron says... which means we can't rely on her to give us any information on/about anything... which means the writers can't use her to give us information... not even when she states something as an absolute fact.
Lanfear's joining the shadow was for power. The one thing she always desired. Moraine's idea to lead on Lanfear to keep her from coming after Rand and possibly even helping him is RAND's in the book... How many ways do they plan on taking agency from the main characters? I don't remember if Moraine knows anything about Rand and Lanfear's relationship.
The whole Lanfear scene(instead of showing Ishmael braking her seal) would have been so much better if they actually had made a scene of her in the past acting according to her name or even just a scene where she was shown as a shadowy bloody being talking with the previous dragon after getting betrayed by him. So many options but they did the most boring and obvious one that did not add a thing to her character. What we got was moraine telling us that she is a scary bad villain. Show DON'T TELL! Why the heck is that so hard for the writers of this show 😤
Not sure about Lews, I don’t recognize him as part of this story. They would have to introduce him all over again, introduce their relationship, use a different setting…
In ref to nails, I keep wondering how Turok can be a blade master w/ nails like that, kinda hard to grip a sword with nails that long. How does he know what’s in the case? Why was Ishameal allowed to remain in his audience after Suroth was taken away? Moiraine’s “cut throat” moment is totally forced and contrived. She could have slapped the horse’s bum and sent it into the night, or just let the horse run with them. Lanfear can travel, she’d never need a horse to follow. Her mouth binding trick, what was that? That’s not how the power works, it’s just a lame copy paste from horror movie tropes 101. It’s hard for me to get over the dogs, they just aren’t doing it for me, they aren’t Friggin wolves. Couldn’t they’ve found a breed of bigger dogs? They’re not even close to wolf size, it’s laughable. I’m okay with losing Gaul, but pretty sure they are setting Aviendha up to be Perrin’s rebound chic, so that would rule Faile out, which I’m not okay with. They have totally screwed Perrin’s character up.
Rj stated in an interview that the seanchan have a lower bar for the skill of their blade masters. That's the reason Rand had any chance of winning the fight.
For that matter, why didn't Moiraine simply cut Lanfear into kibbles and bits? That, I assume, would've slowed her down considerably. And why didn't Lanfear take the peasant woman's horse in tow, to ride when her own mount foundered? To quote one of Amy's favorite creators, "Don't know!" 🙂
@@waltergold3457 if you think about it, would Lanfear even know anything about horses really? She came from the age of legends, which in lore is even more technologically advanced than we are now, so I assume horses were even more of novelty.
@@leekelly337 I don't think it too much of a stretch for a supernatural being to know something about horses, but on the other hand, why aren't there any remnants of that ancient technological world? The Breaking must have been cataclysmic indeed to remove all traces of it, and then you have to wonder why it took only 3,000 years for humanity to recover. But I guess I should just stop asking questions, consume product and ask for more product.
It would take a miracle to recover the show for fans of WoT. Like Rand waking up from a fever dream knowing all the stuff he dreamed was a worst case scenario. Then pick it up with the trolloc attack on the farm on page 3.
Moiraine is no older than 45 years in the books, nowhere near the age they portray her in the show. the liandrin/suroth scene is extremely problematic as you have suroth announcing to an entire legion of soldiers and sul'dam that she is a dark freind. seachan hunt dark freinds to the ends of the earth, they may commit evil acts but are not alligned with the dark. then you have the seachan acting completely incompetent allowing nynaeve and elayne to escape. at least they didn't resort to nynaeve going super saiyen. lastly the whole bouncing back from being slammed into a wall that would kill a grown man nonsense.
Pretty darn sure the liandrin/suroth scene happened like that in the books with a few changes. That whole conversation basically got ignored by Suroth's underlings.
@@Ailthas in the books suroth rides a horse and only has the 2 sul'dam with the damane. she intentionally avoids bringing anyone else to avoid alerting soldiers on patrol and she only tells the Sul'dam that she is getting some more damane, while she does threaten liandrin she never lets on who she is working for and why. having an entire legion of soldiers involved with all the fan fare is literally announcing to the world she is a dark friend.
@joshuatempleton9556 "others were already there, just out of sight of the other side of the Gate. When she did notice them she stared uncertainly. They were as odd a group as she had ever seen and she had heard too many rumors of the war on Toman Head. Armored men. At least 50 of them with overlapping steel plates down their chests... " There are also 2 damane and 2 suldam. So your memory was close just off by about 50.
I've seen a lot of talk around the mouth sewing and head exploding, with claims about it not being in keeping with the One Power in the books. I haven't watched this season so I'm a little confused. Is it because they're shown only using threads of air? Doing these things with the One Power would certainly be possible, whether or not they would be with only certain elements of the One Power is debatable. I'm guessing the sewing of the mouth was chosen because an actor standing around with their mouth gaped open to show them being gagged with Air probably looked a little silly and they thought this looked more sinister and appropriate coming from one of the Forsaken. That won't work for someone bound by the Three Oaths though, maybe they'll just have their Warder gag people with cloth.
For someone who liked this episode you definitely had a lot of problems with it. You seem to want the show to explain everything to you just like a CW show. In this episode we should view Moraine as extremely desperate and not likable at all. They are all up against overwhelming odds to build tension for the finale.
I’m glad that you are finding the show somewhat more enjoyable. I haven’t watched the whole review yet but I most likely will. The only piece of feedback I would give you is that you should replace where you’ve said or written ‘book readers’ with ‘some book readers’ or ‘book readers that I have spoken to’ because you cannot possibly speak for all book readers. I’ve been reading and re-reading the books since 1990 and I am really enjoying the show. This season is superior to the first season but I have enjoyed the whole thing.
They needed Moirane not to know where the road leads to , nor location, nor any particular spot on that road because if she did , she could have opened a portal and that would not have worked with the plot, because as you know she needs to know and have a clear image of the location in her head where she is opening a portal to... in the Show Liandrin is more likable than Moirane ... I think that says it all ha ha ... none book readers love Liandrin !
Lanfear could Skim, which can be done without being overly familiar with her current location. However, if she can just wait for them to sleep, then why would Lanfear go off chasing them?
My pronunciations are notoriously terrible. I started reading these books when I was 11 and some of the words just stuck in my brain in odd ways. Your amusement is acceptable.
@@amys0482 How about mine when you said "Lanfear's query" (instead of "Lanfear's quarry")? John Ciardi, best known for his English translation of the Divine Comedy, said that the true mark of a poet isn't the wish to say something important (or, I might add, woke - sorry, I couldn't resist) but rather the wish to hear words talking to each other in unexpected ways. Achievement unlocked! 🙂
It is amazing how much lighter an episode is without Alanna and her weepy widdle warders. The only reason they are there is to insert and help normalize poly relationships. That's it, not to forward the story, to forward ideology. I also suspect ideology is why Moraine is so unlikeable. Since every woman must be a girl-boss, she must be the girl-boss of girl-bosses. And since her entire story is "busy work" for the character........well shit, what's not to like? Personally, I can't wait for the next meeting with Siuane, since she is Siaune's slave thanks to the Oath Rod............see? they can't even do girl-bosses right, but I'll bet Siuane can!!!! lol Even so, they are clearly using the existing fan base to keep them afloat while they try to recruit a new audience, a new audience who prefers the "subjective realtity" of 2+2=5. A new audience who cannot seperate fantasy from any reality. A new audience that doesn't care about story, they only care about the characters and feeling "safe" when they self-insert themselves to hang out with said characters. When the target audience has set such a low bar, is it any wonder it shows in the writing? I sound crazy, I know, just don't think about it, blame the drugs lol
Much better. I am happy to see you leaving out the venom and personal attacks against the people working on the show completely this time. This was a fairly good summary without much critical analysis which is fine. Over all vast improvement over previous videos on the show. Before I address some of the things you said I am going to recommend that you do some light reading on formalist, structuralist, and semiotic film theory as I think this may address several "problems" you raise. What you are expecting from the show is a strictly realist which is not unfair as modern cinema is currently in a realist phase. While I won't say the show disregards realism (because it doesn't), it does so in some interesting ways. The realism operates more as a base frame from which more semiotic and structuralist molds build on. Again with Moiriane and Lan both of those characters this season are being modeled much more heavily on their portrayal in book 3 in which they are much less likeable. I think there's a bit bit of nostalgia fog and rose colored glasses going on here. Really from The Dragon Reborn through The Fires of Heaven Moiraine becomes less likable as a character with her redemption coming in The Fires of Heaven. I would say her portrait in the show and in the books line up pretty well at this point. And Lan and her are in conflict throughout those books. The assumption about the fingernail length I don't think bares out. When you look at the other stylistic choices made in the show it fits right in. The fact that this kind of stylistic choice is a repeated pattern lets us know that it's something that is being done intentionally. If we are going to understand it then we need to look at what modes the story is utilizing to tell its story. In terms of the forsaken resurrecting in the same body. I think this is meant to explain how Ishy didn't have a new body the first couple of times he died in the books. Also something of note here how she healed herself. We know from the books that healing oneself with the one power is not a thing that can be done (or at least not something they know how to do). The fact that Lanfear uses the True Power to heal herself builds on the existing lore about the powers and the differences between them rather than changes existing lore. About killing the horse. She tells the boys several times that she will see them dead rather than let them fall into the dark ones hands. Do you actually find it reasonable to claim that she is not ruthless? You keep saying what a likable character you think she is but you seem to be ignoring how ruthless she is in the books. "Where does this road go." It's quite possible even plausible that while she knows where it goes locally she does not know where the road terminates or where it leads. She's been free for months which means prioritizing local and regional knowledge while you establish a power base and base of operations. This would have been moved down in priority while she attempted to seduce Rand. Seduce doesn't just mean sleep with. It's interesting you think they are combining Lanfear and Semirhage as I actually suspect from things that were said that they are combining Semirhage and Moghedien. We could of course both be wrong or both correct. They might be splitting Semirhage between Moghedien and Lanfear, or neither. Hopper is best boy. So I think the reason for not having them show the white cloak legion overcome the town is because they are saving their budget for the battle in episode 8. If this is the case I approve and would rather not see the white cloak arrival. Now I could be wrong but I think Dain knows who Perrin is and is hiding him from Valda. I could be wrong about this. Geofram doesn't seem to hold Valda in high esteme and I could see his son acting against Valda if that were the case. At the same time he is making it clear to Perrin that if he acts openly or acts against the white cloaks he won't protect him. I really like this because it sets up Geofram joining sides with Valda after the death of his father. As for the sewing the woman's mouth shut. She didn't use the one power she used the True Power. You have to really look but you can see Saa in her eyes. Also as to where she is going. She doesn't know where they are going so anywhere is good. My guess is to the next town so she can enter the world of dreams. And again you keep saying you think its out of character for Moiraine but I remind you she straight up threatens to murder the boys more than once. I get why you would have a different set of questions. The three are unaware of the Black Ajah at this point and as far as they know from both lore and being in the white tower sisters cannot break the three oaths. I imagine a shock like that might take priority in their thoughts. But that is my take on it. I also think Liandrin is lying. I think why the show is showing she went to the dark is not why she actually went to the dark. It's misdirection. A question I have is does Suroth know who he is? Or does she think he is just a higher ranking Dark Friend? Also I don't know if we are going to get the Rand Ishy fight. It seems a little early for me. Mat and Rand swore a pact back in season 1 and I think they are moving when Rand gets stabbed by the dagger forward and moving the Rand Ishy fight back. Given Ishy is a blade master I like this decision as even if he had been training with Lan since after the eye it's hard to believe any amount of training for six months can over come that gap. Ishy isn't just a blade master but has been one for hundreds of years. Beating High Lord Turak is already a hard ask. Again when it comes to the fight I don't think its so much that he cares about an Aiel that was captured as he does thwarting Valda. Moiraine knows about Tel'aran'rhiod. She is the one who tells Perrin that it and the wolf dream are probably the same thing and that sisters who could enter it spoke of seeing wolves. Also Moiraine is shielded so she cannot ward their dreams. Also in book 1 she knows that dreams are dangerous and if not explaining dreams to the boys in season 1 is infuriating then you should find it equally as infuriating in book 1. Eidetic memory exists in our world which means it exists in theirs (remember we are a previous age and a future age). It absolutely makes sense that yes an eidetic memory would be rare but if someone had it they would probably end up in the browns or the blues. It is dangerous to the brown sister but Verin knows who is black and who is not. I suspect that just like in the books 1:4/1:5 sisters are black Ajah. As for shielding the girls. It's hard to say if shields work the same way they do in the books, that is unclear to me. If they do however then Liandrin can't transfer the shield and the Seanchan are not able to shield the girls until Liandrin drops her shield. You can link and take over the shielding but you cannot shield someone who is already shielded. I am not exactly sure how that whole scene with Moiraine joining the shielding of Logain works mechanically because they didn't explain it. I can think of three different ways it could work mechanically one of which is incorrect, one of which I don't think they did. This is something I hope gets explained at some point. The chase scene feels like it had more to it originally but it got cut down. I don't see the Min and Mat flirting and I have watched the episode several times. "Nynaeve is occasionally insufferable in the books" LMAO. occasionally... Not a fan of the knocking into the wall. Do I believe someone like a warder with a Yellow sister might do something like that? Ya. But I still don't like it. I do understand why it was done but still not a fan. The advice she gets from her sister makes her much more like Fires of Heaven Moiriane when she stops trying to bully and manipulate Rand and finally becomes "Zen Moiraine". I don't think that's where her character is actually at yet but I do think it's setting up that future. In the books Lanfear uses the mask of mirrors to look younger. When she drops it to show Rand what she looks like she looks older. So something that is unexplained in the books is how much Ishy was locked away. We know that he was involved in world events prior to the dragons birth. How isn't really explained. It's possible that he has been involved in affairs in Seanchan since before Rand broke the seal. He is only half sealed away both in the books and the show but we still don't know what that means (either in the books or the show).
@Amy Stewart they also gave Lanfear Moghedien's ability of being the best in the world of dreams by saying lanfear is the greatest when Mog can do things that even lanfear can't, the fact this info is given by a 3rd party is also concerning. Aviendha was too short and her hair way to long she's sposed to have short cropped hair at this stage as long hair gets in the way of fighting. but perrin towers over Aviendha. and it seems everyone knows the 2 Rivers intimately and it again makes it seem very cosmapolitan and way out in the middle of nowhere making the world a lot lot smaller also cairhein seems very close to tar valon ? so yeah it's a tiny world. the Aes Sedai do know of the world of dreams and know it's a talent though i think the last one with the talent was like 50 years ago if i remember the books correctly , and Moiraine does know of it but doesn't know how to do anything with it except for warding. My question about the shields is why didn't machinchin come to harass the 3 since it requires channeling to shield and that attracts that being :|, my question wasn't why the damane take the shields over as that i would suspect requires co-operation from all sides, but why the damane didn't respond to liandrins channeling. Didn't the show runners say they were going to go on a more poly route where the women have more partners and that love triangles were going to be a thing ? and this appears to be the first inklings of this, and they were going to change the harem sort of relation ship of rand ? as a book reader i'm really confused about the 3 aes sedai, Liandrin, Sheriam and Verin since i know whom they all are especially with Verin and Sheriam and what they've done by this time. I can't see Moiraine being killed off till the last season of the TV show, due to fear of her star power loosing people watching the show, especially since they've made her the face of the show and she is the Main Character where the others are supporting character I think Aran'gar/Halima has a chance of appearing as 1 of the foresaken, and bring her in as Trans as that does seem in line with Rafe's ideals The other issue with the timeline was you saw the arrival of the Seanchen to the mainland at the end of season 1, which means the seal that released ishmael didn't release him as he had been free more than 5 months of the current season 2 setting as he'd of had to do all this prior to the seanchen coming to the mainland :| and really how far away is this other nation if they got there rather quickly it's something that would take years to organise and orchestrate maybe 20years ?
@@Ailthas no Mog was better in TAR she could do things in there that Lanfear couldn't she was also stronger in there , Lanfear did call it her realm but she was the only 1.
@@SirBlaze75 I think Lanfear is arrogant enough to believe she is best in the dreamworld and would also make it her reputation while Moggy would be more covertly skilled.
@@amys0482 oh to that i agree that lanfears arogance would make her believe she's the best, and promote it ie she does call it her realm, but Ishy would know better,
I like the inclusion of elements from book 3, it leads me to believe for the first time that they can finish the story in 8 seasons. Tho I don’t think it was well written or improved very much.
Lanfear turning to the dark one because a man broke her heart 🤮 Lanfear's motivation has always been about gaining power, LTT left her because of it, she brought the dark one into the world in search of it, but now she's evil because she lost the D Lanfear's outfit in the dream sequence was terrible, her whole look was always white not black. An age gap between Ishy and Lanfear would be bad but Rand being 10-15 years younger than Min and Lanfear is great!? 🤷♂ Show Rand is likely to end up in bed with Moiraine, Alanna, Cadsuane et al. Probably with Ishy too given the scene we had. The suggestion that they are merging Lanfear with Semirhage is a worry, Lanfear's motivations were unique among the forsaken. The event you refer to between Moiraine and Lanfear would then remove an extra forsaken from the show for a long period too. I just don't see them doing the door scene. The Avi fight scene was full superhero not just black widow. They made it so dark that it was hard to see and had loads of cuts but even then it's obvious that not one Whitecloak made any attempt to hit her. The Whitecloaks wear no armour, they don't know how to fight, they don't know what "all at once" means, an absolute joke of a fighting force. It doesn't matter how many of them turn up at Falme, they are no threat to anyone. I always compare the show to The Last Kingdom for fight scenes and it is embarrassing. The assumption that show Rand would need a recommendation from his former girlfriend or his friends to have sex with someone in the show is very strange. Elayne sleeps with Rand once in the books, Avi twice, the only book relationship that exists is with Min. What the show will give us is a complete mystery.
I didn't mean recommendation to have sex. Rand loves all three women in the books but the time he has to get to know and trust them in the show will be reduced. Lanfear thirsts for power and glory but she doesn't go to the shadow until after Lews Therin spurns her. I think this is in the companion book. It was a narcissist's spiteful revenge more than a broken heart.
I still hold that show Aiel are too dangerous in comparison to the books. Book Aiel, from my admittedly fragmented memory, are dangerous but fightable. But this is a personal opinion.
Yes, the fight scenes are very super hero stylized rather than just really competent fighters. I enjoyed it, but I would have preferred something more realistic.
@@amys0482 My point is that with Elayne and Avi it is just sex in the books. Rand has feelings for them and does not know who he likes most but he spends no time with them. Personally if he had spent time with Elayne he'd soon stop thinking of her romantically... Rand meets with Elayne for one afternoon in Caemlyn, a couple of weeks in Tear when they snog (off book) in corridors, one night in Caemlyn when they have sex, one conversation just before the last battle. That is it for Rand and Elayne's interactions in the entire book series. There are conversations between other people about their status but in terms of book / screen time there is almost none between these characters. Avi does act as Rand's guide / teacher for a while but once they have sex she leaves to find Elayne and does not really spend anytime or speak to Rand until she decides to hook-up just before the last battle. Again there are conversations with other people but actual time together is limited to parts of two books in the series. I don't see why the show should create new set-ups for Rand and the girls when (unless they change the story) they are not going to spend anytime together.
Aiel fight choreography was ok. I still think this is an atrociously designed show. Butchery to book readers, yet an analytical person that hasn't read the books would find the story so disjointed.
Hope your kitty is having a swift recovery! Thanks as always for the uploads, you have my favourite WOT show analysis.
Thank you! Kitty has cancer but it is a treatable cancer so we hope to keep him around a little longer.
Great video. The "cutting of the fingernails" was yet another example of what I see as "spectacle over substance" (forgot where I read that originally, but I think it was in regard of season 1 of WoT, RoP). On some level it's like "woow, they took her status", but since we have no clue what her status even was before and how it even changed (she is still completely in command afterwards apparently), it's basically a pointless scene accomplishing nothing meaningful within the story they created :(
this exactly
Gaul is in the show. He was in S1e3
Truth, RIP Gaul
You're right about it at least bringing people to the book series; thank you for that positive last thought. My partner asked to listen to the books with me despite not particularly enjoying season one, and a friend read the first book because he enjoyed the first season. They both became shocked and somewhat aghast at the adaptation, wondering why they would cut so much excitement and characterization, not to mention mangle the worldbuilding.
Anyway, thank you for another interesting and helpful take.
Your videos are really great mini-case studies on writing, logical consistency, characterization and just enough "I wish the books were represented better" that I find myself hate-watching the show just to have context for these videos.
I apologize for being a bit snide with this comment, but I think we may just see Gaul, plus Bain and Chiad, come in later. Mainly because I don't think Rafe can refrain from an opportunity for Bain and Chiad to man-bash Gaul.
I don't know if it's just me, but I'm finding it really weird that in almost every scene where people are portrayed as having been rendered unconscious, they're always in a semi sitting position with their head lolled to the side, and seemingly always the same side. Lan, after being drugged by suicide man. Then the ladies in the Ways before they wake up, and again in the forest after the Seanchan set them down.
I actually laughed out loud when Liandrin arrived back at the Tower and Verin catches her. Liandrin immediately, in false nonchalance, leans against a pillar and smiles like, "What? I wasn't doing anything nefarious". It immediately reminded me of one of those classic comedy scenes where the good guy is following the bad guy, then the bad guy looks back and the good guy immediately leans against something, looking everywhere but at the other guy, pretending to be grossly interested in whatever it is.
Bain and Chiad are cast and will be in this season. Gaul hasn't been and won't be in this season, though. I'm not certain if he'll appear later.
Please God, don't let Rafe have Gaul too!
I've been assuming that Moiraine learned about the TAR and the Forsaken from Verin's library at the start of the season 2.
that's very generous
@@amys0482 that's my head canon and I'm sticking to it! 🙂
It's "funny" how every single show character is more frustrating, makes worse decisions, and has a weird moral compass compared to the book original.
It’s because they tried to do GoT rather than WoT
@@denglongfist4270 GoT without all the arguably misogynistic / exploitative proclivities of that show.
Until she works out why it's coming out mono (maybe only recording to 1 channel?) you can enable mono audio in windows to make it play it in both sides of headphones. Then just turn it back off after.
my left ear is lonely. I think the sound is in mono :) great review tho
random comment. The mouth sewing felt very World of dreams and not "one powery"
I had the same issue with the sound. 😞
I can't figure this out. I have tried different things.
This latest video of yours, excellent as always, answered an important question for me - how do the kitties descend from their basket? (That was quite a leap of faith, I must say, especially if there's no furniture behind your chair - all joking aside, I do hope no injury was suffered.)
I wouldn't say this episode was the best of the series, but it was without question the best of S2. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it seemed like a completely different show. Things started happening at last, with a minimum of pointless dialogue. And the first scene, at least, was impressive from a production point of view. The ambition to achieve GoT's grandeur was clearly evident, notwithstanding WoT's critical failure to equal that show's imitation of reality.
I thought Valda, the Whitecloaks leader, was killed in S1E5 - but what do I know?
Liandrin's jawline is practically a character in its own right, and the term "eidetic memory," put in the mouth of a faux-medieval character, is as clueless as would've been "photographic memory" - as clueless as the use of the word "adrenaline" elsewhere in the series. (Whatever else they may be, the showrunners are no linguists.)
All of this.
I was startled the first time kitten leapt from the top of the cat tree to the floor but she's done it several times now so she seems to think this is the best way. No injuries.
I know Valda didn't die, but since Egwene stabbed him, I would think his vendetta would be against her not Perrin (in the show...) but I suppose people can be unreasonable.
I think photographic memories are lazy writing 90% of the time, but if they really wanted to have that, they should have has her say she remembers everything perfectly and can reproduce what she has only glanced at.
@@amys0482 Good to hear about the kitten. Both have blindingly fast reflexes - their strikes at the catnip are so quick that they're practically invisible. And Valda is one of the better characters, so I'm glad he survived what looked to me like a deep stab wound between his collarbones. And about total recall - one of my favorite movies, with one of my favorite actresses (who gives an incredible performance in it), is TEMPLE GRANDIN (2010). It's touching.
Hey Amy, appreciate your take. I'm not sure if you know this, but your commercials come in stereo, but your commentary comes in Mono on my earbuds. Not a big deal, just wasn't sure if you were aware. I'm not a book reader and get some clarification from the show by watching those that know the show explain things the show doesn't explain well. Thanks for all the great input.
Yep. Like almost all show watchers on YT. I don't remember GoT needing that much hand-holding. It's... unfortunate for this IP.
I have been informed but nothing I try seems to fix it.
What really confused me is how old Anaveare, Moiraine and Barthanes are supposed to be. Considering the Anavaere actress is 73 (but would pass for younger), I would have placed Moiraine and her in their late 60ies.
But then Barthanes is introduced: He says it has been 20 years since he saw Moiraine last and she says, then he was as big as the table, meaning he is in his early 20es. So Anavaere would have been quite old, when she birthed him, like 40-50.
Or are they supposed to be younger?! I am confused.
It's possible to have a child in your 40s or 50s but still baffling.
@@amys0482 I just realized that they may have aged up Moiraine, so that they could show New Spring scenes without having to explain why Rosamund Pike looks to old to be Accepted.
Wait, what - Barthanes in his twenties? He was greying in the books. How mystifying.
@@SilveryRow That is obviously very different. Not material, but different.
37:57 don't forget it undermines Loial's warning in 1e6 "they would not survive the Ways" when Moiraine and Lan chase off the horses.
good one
And Moiraine’s warning on not touching anything in the waste in s1e8, and in the next scene Rand is sleeping in the waste.
I know I am very demanding with my media, but details are important and a little consistency would be appreciated
@@denglongfist4270 at least the 1e8 issue I fixed in my fan edit. I'll have to go back to 1e6 and fix that little speech as well.
@@wotfanedit the fan edit is the most enjoyable part of this experience. I am a big fan of your work.
@@denglongfist4270 thank you! Much appreciated. I'm starting to think about S2...it's gonna be MUCH longer given all the material (likely a 2-parter), but I think already there's at least 1 hour to cut.
As usual, an excellent analysis!
A few observations:
- I didn't get why Elyas would lead Perrin back to the village and not into the wilderness instead.
- I really struggle with the show's ethnic depictions here. I remember Errol's panic at seeing Rand. Obviously there are traits that Aiel share, but I can't for the life of me figure out which ones.
- It seems like Yessica stole pages from the novice register for Verin to peruse? Or did she copy the page from memory? That was really weird.
- My worst scene was the Liandrin hand-over to Suroth. The directing of this scene was really bad. Retconning lore established in season 1. Illogical behaviour from the Seanchan soldiers (where they drop the girls). V ery B-movie pyrotechnics, and the "5 seconds escape".
- It is worth noting that "embracing the Source" is not a concept that the show has presented, probably for practical reasons, but it will have an effect on the dynamics of channeling.
- a nitpick for Aviendha: she seems rather relaxed sitting by a lake 😉
- I sense an internet storm coming if they go ahead and have Ryma (black woman) be broken to the a'dam 😅
- Don't badmouth Lanfear's dom attire! We likes it 😁
This episode was a 6/10 for me. I don't understand the show's rave reviews on RT. I think the show is coasting on the enthusiasm of book readers.
I missed the implications of the lake. But considering they are near Falme, she would have seen bodies of water by this point.
Honestly, I think that from a biological perspective if nothing else, the Aiel probably SHOULD be somewhat darker skinned. They've been living in basically the Sahara Desert for nearly four thousand years after all. If nothing else, they would be so darkly tanned that they may as well be darker-skinned.
@@fanghur except redheads don't really tan all that often even generations down the line unless they're mixed heritiage, so biologically it doesn't make too much sense since they're again isolated
@@fanghur I don't care about Aiel skin tone. I care that they _share_ features. The show insists (sometimes very dramatically) that Rand looks like an Aiel, but only characters on-screen can tell. Make their eyes glow, make them blue, whatever. Just do SOMETHING so I can see the resemblance for myself without needing to be told.
The whole point of the Aiel being pale gingers in the books is to indicate that there is an obvious problem here. Since when are desert dwellers pale gingers? It is supposed to immediately remind the reader that something happened for this race of people to end up in the waste (the Breaking) as they clearly don’t belong there. I also don’t care so much about how they look as long as it’s consistent (which it isn’t) but the book logic for this would have been good to include.
Audio is only coming out on the right earbud. Same with last vid
For me it’s like listening to a song sung out of tune. You know how it’s supposed to sound and it grates on your ears hearing it. I’ve stopped watching it after ep 3 this season. I’ll just watch the reviews. Thank you for your thoughts on this show.
That's exactly what the great Mark Twain said about James Fenimore Cooper's writing, which he compared to a bad musical performance - you know what he's trying to say, and you know he's not saying it. "Good writing means using the right word, not its first cousin."
Honestly, it's a bummer if Semirhage gets cut. By in large, most of the female Forsaken are considerably more unique and distinctive than most of the male ones. Really the only one that I wouldn't really care if they cut/combined is Mesaana. But Rahvin, Sammael, Balthamal, and Be'lal could easily be reduced to one I think. The only male Forsaken I personally found to be overly interesting were Ishamael, Demandred (and by extension *spoiler*), and Asmodean.
Agree with that. But I think we are only getting the three girls. I might have guessed some of the wrong boys, but there are only 8 seals. Ishy, Lanfear, Moggy, Graendel, and "the boys" (4) make 8.
@@amys0482in the books it was 7 seals.
I feel Semirhage will be cut, not because of a potential conflation with Lanfear that Amy mentions, but because Ishy is himself taking her place as the one influencing the Seanchan/Suroth.
Asmodean, unfortunately, may get the cut because it seems like they are going to give the job of teaching Rand to Logain.
@@jsbrads1 7 seals on the Dark One's prison. Seals on the Forsaken is made up in the show. I don't even know if there IS a Dark One's prison.
@@lazerbungalow I think Ishy is taking Semirhage's place among the Seanchan but Lanfear is absorbing some of her personality and other plot arcs. Regardless, I don't think Semirhage is in the story.
A review longer than the episode itself? Yes please! Looking forward to this :)
For sure the strongest episode of the show so far, yet still with it's logic problems. But it passes verisimilitude on the first pass.
I didn't understand why Lanfear even needed a horse.
One additional late thought: the reason this episode feels stronger is because plot- and production-wise, there's just more *motion* happening, and a lot of it outdoors. Being on location with characters moving place to place lends a lot of dynamism to the plot, vs shot-reverse shot dialogs on an indoor set. It makes you more invested in what happens next.
Yes, the tension is better. There is more action with higher stakes. It is still riddled with inconsistencies and nonsense but it was more fun to watch than Lan peeing on a tree
@@amys0482 he was just marking his territory! 😜
@@wotfanedit Isn't that what Perrin should be doing - sending p-mails? (See? I'm catching on to the lore.) 🙂
Thank god you said it, I had it with the show slamming people against the wall, particularly in the last episode with Liandrin ... when you throw someone 10 meters across into a stone wall you smash that person's skull and spine into 100 pieces
I don't really blame WoT show for this. Audiences have been well-trained by TV and movies for that past 40+ years that being thrown 10 feet into a solid object is not that bad, that people are both easy to knock unconscious and that it's not all that damaging. It's a conceit of drama to which I've largely reconciled myself. As long as the show doesn't take great pains to be very physically realistic in general, I don't really care about it. If the show had taken pains to be realistic, though, I'd certainly be annoyed by the inconsistency.
Thank you SO much for the review
Love this video!
That's so interesting, I've never watched any show or even movie twice, I guess. Only some childhood movies with my kids, and even then, I'm not really watching closely.
For me now it's not even watchable, I can't keep concentration.
I've watched the first season of the show first and then bought first three books for my son, he started reading and asked me to join him for a year. Now I'm ahead of him on book six.
And now I can't watch the show at all.
I love your pronunciation of words from the books. Thank you for your review. Again, I agree with almost all your points.
I say almost everything wrong 😅
@@amys0482so say we all 💁♂️
P.s. Please mix your audio down to mono. The sound is only coming out of the right channel ever since you moved to this side mic setup, and with earphones it's mildly annoying.
It is. Or it looks correct. I don't know what I am missing.
@@amys0482 hmmm, then maybe it needs you to upmix it to stereo by duplicating the right channel into the left? Not sure.
Same for me. It's only audio on the right side. Which program are you using to edit video?
I agree that this episode was much more watchable than some of the others. Things are actually happening. The lack of things happening is often a problem in the books...I felt like it was very odd that the show would have similar problems (even earlier than the books did).
However, the idea that the show will portray the three women who are in love with Rand as being all in love with Rand in the way that happens in the books...? No way. This show is far too embarrassed of anything that smacks of a male fantasy to present it as anything but a thing to mock or a negative personality trait. It will not allow multiple of its leading women obsess over a a single man's affections with the sort of harem-ish suggestion of the books.
Around 32:00 it's worse that you describe. I can't recall the exact episode (somewhere around 6), but Moiraine explicitly states in S1 that Rand shouldn't worry about dreams because they can't hurt you. I recall it (but now I'm going to have to rewatch to make sure I'm not misremembering) because it was so very wrong, but it's something book-Moiraine could have said since as far as I know at that point of the story she didn't know better, but S2E5 mean show-Moiraine did (and was lying?)
It particularly bothered me that Moiraine basically just kills those two innocent people by commandeering their horses in the worst way possible.
Like, she could have just taken all of the horses instead of killing one and then they just set the horses free once they get further away. I don't like that it seems that if she was smarter she could have avoided the (very brutal) deaths of innocents. I understand sometimes the characters are put in places where people *must* die, but I think it's pretty lame and lazy to make people die for no reason (other than "WOW MUH SHOCK VALUE").
Moiraine death toll just keeps climbing
And also, the mouth sewing thing really bothered me for the same reason you mentioned (although maybe it didn't bother you as much, which is fine @amys0482) in that it doesn't seem to make any sense in something even resembling the magic system of the Wheel of Time :'(
sorry, I know I'm ranting to nowhere.... but isn't it weird that Perrin is somewhat flirting with a girl only a few months after murdering his wife??! haha
Oh, and one last thing, I make UA-cam videos and what not so if you need help solving your audio issue, let me know. Not sure what the easiest way to get ahold of you would be.
@@teej_dvhe is not flirting. Avienda is messing with him, bc Aiel Humor, but he doesn't flirt back
I don't get the mouth sewing, because people would ask the victim who had done this to her and she could write it out. That would draw way more attention, than leaving her alone or dead
remember when the writers wanted to make moiraine the main character (skipping the book where she was the main character), it's ironic that the parts of the story they seemed to like the most they did the most damage to
True.
Another terrible inconsistency with the writing in reference to the Seanchan and their display of ruthless aggression. Turok states that they have returned to bring all under one banner in order to prepare for the last battle. So you think the best way to arrive as saviors is to blast the coastlines with Tsunamis? Are we supposed to think that it was just Suroth’s idea to knock on the door with tidal waves to announce their arrival? Just demonstrates they have no idea what they are doing from one episode to the next or one season to the next.
The little girl was very threatening apparently
The amount of Swanchan 😂 Great analysis
sorry 😅
How the heck is Valda suddenly reappearing... after a death blow... NOT a thing?
What? He just magically healed himself, like "Selene"?
Or maybe Egwene cried on him after she stabbed him?
Barely an inconvenience, indeed.
Swanchan? Where are you getting that pronunciation?
I am notoriously bad at pronunciation. I make up how words sound all the time. But probably when I learned how siuan was supposed to be pronounced and started applying it elsewhere.
I was giving season 2 a chance but I think I'm done. Ishamael saying that Mat has been his from the start shows me that show Mat is not what I want to see. The fact that they are changing a character so much for a "redemption act" shows me that this is not for me. I'm glad others are enjoying it but I can't.
I think the show is talking down to it's audience all of the time. GoT already proved that this sort of simplification and general character reduction is unnecessary. People have no problem following complex book plots or hidden motivations, but this show is intent on proving otherwise, just like The Rings of Power. It's just sad, and more to the point, very bad.
It feels like a show written for casual viewers who have the TV on in the background as they scroll Tiktok on their phones. If so, I suppose the simplistic plot, lack of coherence, and continuity errors won't matter for the intended audience.
^ this basically. Which is a tragic considering the source material. I was fine with that style for The Magicians. It is sad for WOT.
I disagree with this - as a complete stranger to the books, I don't think the show simple at all. In fact, I have only the vaguest idea of what's going on and who's in charge and how the magic works, and no longer bother trying to keep up. The execrable "Rings of Power" was a paragon of clarity in comparison. I just go with flow, in large part to enjoy Amy's reviews, which I find at least as entertaining despite her infinitely smaller resources. (I didn't have a clue, for example, that the Seanchan are a seafaring people.)
@@waltergold3457 good feedback. I guess my point is that the show isn't concerned about things like developing a logical plot, or informing viewers about the background lore, or getting its continuity accurate.
That is common for a show that expects its casual viewers to have it on as background noise. But I can see that for a viewer paying attention and trying to understand the story and the world, it must be very confusing.
@@ThumbMerrilin "A show written for casual viewers who have the TV on in the background as they scroll Tiktok on their phones..." - I think you've just put your finger precisely on what's wrong with a lot of modern entertainment. 🙂
This episode also gained from not having mopey, dead-weight Lan dragging it down.
You're still having left right audio issues
It's definitely improving. It helps tremendously to give concrete details of the WoT world so that viewers have at least a chance of understanding the import of the characters. It still feels more like Nynaeve's story than Rand's.
The Seanchan have a couple of interesting aspects. One is that they have no accent. Given their distance in time and space from the cultures shown so far, that's rather remarkable. The other is that, if wokeism was truly guiding the show, then the Seanchan's invasion could be a chance to explore in barely disguised rhetoric the evils of colonialism and the rights of the dispossessed. Maybe they'll get around to it. But right now there is hardly a peep about the public purpose of the invasion.
I think woke as a motivation is overblown. If that is the motivation, it is poorly executed. I really think the writing is just... childish.
@@amys0482 Part of the problem is that I think "making the show woke" isn't a motivation at all. The people running the show have certain perspectives (as everyone running any show does), and those perspectives make their way into the show. It's an outgrowth of perspective rather than some conscious thing; they recognize things that are "bad" in the book from that perspective, and they try to change those things (poorly). It's also demonstrably not really all that "woke" given how much of social justice culture it does ignore (i.e., race: it seems to have a color-blind view of race, which is very much not acceptable in the currently popular "woke" culture). It has some pretty distinct perspectives on gender, much moreso than other elements one might consider "woke."
There's no woke here. If there was, Amy wouldn't be on about "black sisters." 🙂
Moraine was an Accepted in the Books, apparently she wasn’t in the TV show…
concerning your last few comments. I always thought the best way to do the wheel of time is an animated miniseries. hour long episodes, take as long as you need to rather than restricting episodes like amazon has done. voices are far easier to replace than full actors if the need arises. and I would stick mostly with the books, maybe with slight tweaks where there is ambiguity and inconsistency. I would be over the moon for that.
I would even be supportive of cutting all dead end scenes and all of the unconnected side stories.
Same. Life goals!
Though the actors are not the problem of the TV series. They are great. Problem is writing.
Ah well. Prior comment deleted. No loss. Good analysis, good review.
I think Ishamael being closely tied to the Seanchan is not too far from the lore of the novels. He was the one who turned Artur Hawkwing against the Aes Sedai and also the one who sent Luthair Paendrag west to seek new territory. It would make sense that after returning in this third age he would seek them out.
Of course at this time in the novels he is Ba'alzamon, but out of all the things I detest in this show this is one of my lesser gripes.
Yeah, this doesn't bother me either. Just thought the infodump with Turak was weirdly placed.
@@amys0482 Agreed, sad how much they info dump on this show without sharing important info like the horn, tainted saidin, the dragon, etc.
So I wasn't going crazy! I thought I was the only one who kinda enjoyed the episode, felt wrong for some reason.
Still only kinda, but it's something
Something's better than nothing!@@amys0482
Moraine's sister's age makes no sense.
They established that their uncle still started the Aiel War. Men and women can live into their 70s and sometimes 80s without the the one power. Who would let a 70+ year old on to a battlefield? If he wasn't on the battlefield then blood snow couldn't happen. So let's assume the king is of 70 years old for the war at max. With a more likely age being in the 40s or 50s.
For Moraine's father to not be the king he has to be younger, so if the brothers are close in age then the oldest Moraine's father could be is in his 60s. If we assume the painting is of Moraine and her sister. Then Moraine is in her 40s and her sister is in her 20s during the war. The absolute oldest Moraine can be is in her 50s if her parents had her when they were teenagers.
Moraine being in her 40s during the Aiel War also lines up with her age in the leaked s1e1 script.
More realistically the king should have been in his 40s or 50s which would have Moraine being in her 20s to 30s. Her sister being a child or teenager. Which would line up more with the books...
Either way her sister can't be in her 70s.
I was going off the age of the actress and that scene where they show her waking up very old and putting on a wig. But they haven't given us all the details. I just suspect they don't add up.
@@amys0482 they don't but I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was saying you are right.
When Moraine and her sister are talking their uncle starting the Aiel War comes up. The painting establishes a minimum of ~20 year age gap if not 30 years between Moraine and her sister. By stressing that Aes Sedai live longer than normal humans without stating how long normal humans live they imply that they live as long as we do. I used all the info provided by the show to do my estimates.
Laman could have been any age, he wasn’t a front line soldier. Not sure of the progression of the Aiel war, but the simplest track would be Aiel invade Cairhein, the city holds for a while, then the king retreats across the river. The Aiel follow and continue to gain ground slowly over time as the other nations come to Laman’s defense, the advance of the Aiel slows and allows even more distant nations to join the other side… the Aiel can’t stop a retreat but they are able to stop Laman from entering Tar Valon and eventually they overrun the defenders and reach the Pavilion of Laman, kill him and take his sword on the slopes of the Dragonmount.
Damane didn't know the shield weave at first. In fact they don't know alot of weaves that can't be used in war. It makes sense liadrin wouldn't want to reveal anything to the seanchan and dropped it before leaving the ways.
Its strange they took loial as a slave. The seanchan treat ogiers very definitely. As for the shape of the collars apparently its so the actors aren't at risk of breaking their necks
Good point on the shields. All the more reason to collar them immediately or while unconscious then.
didn't watch season 2 and won't. but wasn't it established in the first season that channeling inside the Ways attracts Machin Shin? And isn't holding a shield on several people channeling?
The shape of the collars were unsafe? That's a new one, lol.
Is it also why perrin hasn't been using an axe? Those things are sharp!
@@matthewhodges7444a circle of material around the neck if it is pulled on, the biggest problem would be a collapse of the windpipe.
@@jsbrads1 I don't mind the shape change if it is a safety issue but the magically woven part bothers me.
I loved this episode for the wrong reason.
Moraine: We have 4 horses in the stable. Rand take one I need to kill the other 2 so Lanfear doesn't follow us.
Lanfear reaching the stable: Clever!!!
Hahaha how is this clever, instead taking all 4 horses. Riding two and having the the other two as backup to jump on. Show producers probably think, their audience are bunch of idiots.
I doubt they will remove Semirhage. She's one of the female Forsaken with the most book time and actions that actually affect Rand, literally. Semirhage, Moghedien, Lanfear, Graendal are likely staying. Messana is likely the goner.
There are only 8 seals and 8 statues. Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedian, Graendal and "the boys". I might be wrong about which boys, but Semirhage is toast. Her character arc is being split between Ishamael (manipulating the Seanchan) and Lanfear.
I admit this season is "better", only because it is not so aggressively bad. Based upon what it is the show, I do not even get why they need the "dragon". He does not do anything and cannot beat anyone. Defenders say "oh, because he isn't trained!", but that was not a problem when five female novices destroyed an entire army. It seems arbitrary when "training" is needed.
The only way to enjoy this is to say this is loosely based on Wheel of Time
What is missing in the show so far are scenes from common folks talking about gossip and the weather acting strange, gossip acts as a fire spread of uncertainty and panic inside this world. Maids talk with customers information spreads, false dragon tarmon'gaidon, black ajah are the main three. However what we gain is more depth on the villain side this could be doable if they remove side plots as well as side characters. They have taken a bold action with Min and made her gift into a curse that she is willing to do anything to get rid off. As a show these characters need to be interesting and have problems to solve so I can somewhat understand were changes comes from, but it is very different from book Min. Mat's actor understands his character almost like he is in the books himself somewhat scary but very welcomed. Moiraine is kinder in the books mostly because she is much younger, as well as the boys she is trying to protect. This is harder to judge because a Moiraine that thought she was stilled would have a panic reaction as well. I havent decided if this Moiraine is book accurate or not.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!! I've been saying since season 1: What are the global stakes? Why is this all so important? They totally ignored the world and only focused on inter-personal antagonism. That is so frustrating!!
Given Rafe's love if a certain Hero of the Horn I don't think it's going to be a Macguffin m
Great work Amy! Very thoughtful and detailed. This episode was the first one I actually liked. I had to finally just let go of considering it as an adaption but more an interpretation of the books. This mental gymnastic allows me to consider it a branching story like the portal stones. This is a version of the story. I do think the showrunner thinks he is smarter than Mr. Jordan and Sanderson based on his own interview comments but at the end of the day it is what it is. I would love to see a really detailed adaption like you said in my lifetime but not holding my breath on that. Seeing how poorly they are doing some things has only fueled my love of the books and I am rereading them now, nearly done book three already. The books will always stand on their own merits and the show should be able to do that as well. What you kept saying about maybe not liking the changes but it being interesting is also key for me. If they can at least make it interesting I will keep watching.
The showrunner comes off as smug and arrogant. And with what we know of how they spend the budget in season 1 it's the worst kind of showrunner. No respect for the source material, no respect for the fans, terrible at his job, and not being able to see it. Combine that with his comments about 70% of the book fans finding the show better than the books and we know that he's either delusional or a liar, and there's certainly no way he'll change his way. Rafe Judkins is the worst kind of showrunner for a fantasy show we could get.
@@theupperechelon7634 agreed. His comments immediately after S1 finale in which he is giving himself praises was what made up my mind not to watch this anymore. That there are changes in an adaptation, I can agree, I am not looking for 1:1, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the entire season 1 and my enjoyment of the show diminished (sometime drastically) with each episode
I can't stomach this travesty of a show. I don't know why it exists. Kudos to people who are willing to suffer through this. Thanks for your efforts.
The Amazon Execs wanted the Game of Thrones
I might agree this was the best episode so far, but its in no way good imo. What helps is that there is no mopey Lan and no Alanna sexual adventures with her warders. The bar is low as you mentioned
I mean Alanna is one of the best things about the show. At least she brings in some colour and dynamic. And it’s good to finally see some good polyamory relationships on screen.
I would love to see the Rand romances changed up. I was not a fan of his harem in the books
After a reread, I decided Perrin and Min were a very good match. Needless to say, I never liked Faile joining the story, the whole thing is poorly executed and her character is abusive.
Rand’s affair with Min was unnecessary.
And Rand marrying two women would have been more consistent with the Aiel and I don’t mind that element added to the story.
There was no harem. Rand spends almost no time with Elayne in the books and sleeps with her once. Rand spends almost no time romantically with Avi and sleeps with her twice. The girls talk amongst themselves about the idea of sharing him but Rand dies before we find out if it could work. Rand in his head/dreams often thinks about Elayne and Avi but there is no physical element. It should also be noted that Elayne and Avi were the instigators of sex and not Rand.
...while Min was his only true lover, who kept him kind of sane and was a vulnerability for him as well. She is the romance that should not be skipped.
Elyane and Avidenda could have a romance with each other though, playing up their connection to a life-partner one.
@@step4018 Yeah, Rand goes back to the gals after the last book.
If Marx was living today, he'd be rolling around in his grave. Randy Newman said that once upon a time. To go by this show, Gullgutten wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of Robert Jordan.
The Last Battle will take place in Falme at the end of the season? Hurray! There will be no season 3!
The show-runner is "in love" with the concept of "unreliable narrator"... using it too much.
There is a cascade of "butterfly effect" consequences from this...
This is how (partially) Moiraine becomes Moron... they've made her the "UN" too many times.
Another butterfly effect is that viewers can't trust ANYTHING Moron says... which means we can't rely on her to give us any information on/about anything... which means the writers can't use her to give us information... not even when she states something as an absolute fact.
Lanfear's joining the shadow was for power. The one thing she always desired.
Moraine's idea to lead on Lanfear to keep her from coming after Rand and possibly even helping him is RAND's in the book... How many ways do they plan on taking agency from the main characters? I don't remember if Moraine knows anything about Rand and Lanfear's relationship.
The whole Lanfear scene(instead of showing Ishmael braking her seal) would have been so much better if they actually had made a scene of her in the past acting according to her name or even just a scene where she was shown as a shadowy bloody being talking with the previous dragon after getting betrayed by him. So many options but they did the most boring and obvious one that did not add a thing to her character. What we got was moraine telling us that she is a scary bad villain. Show DON'T TELL! Why the heck is that so hard for the writers of this show 😤
Not sure about Lews, I don’t recognize him as part of this story. They would have to introduce him all over again, introduce their relationship, use a different setting…
In ref to nails, I keep wondering how Turok can be a blade master w/ nails like that, kinda hard to grip a sword with nails that long. How does he know what’s in the case? Why was Ishameal allowed to remain in his audience after Suroth was taken away? Moiraine’s “cut throat” moment is totally forced and contrived. She could have slapped the horse’s bum and sent it into the night, or just let the horse run with them. Lanfear can travel, she’d never need a horse to follow. Her mouth binding trick, what was that? That’s not how the power works, it’s just a lame copy paste from horror movie tropes 101. It’s hard for me to get over the dogs, they just aren’t doing it for me, they aren’t Friggin wolves. Couldn’t they’ve found a breed of bigger dogs? They’re not even close to wolf size, it’s laughable. I’m okay with losing Gaul, but pretty sure they are setting Aviendha up to be Perrin’s rebound chic, so that would rule Faile out, which I’m not okay with. They have totally screwed Perrin’s character up.
All of this. Pretty sure Faile is cast so I think she will at least make an appearance.
Rj stated in an interview that the seanchan have a lower bar for the skill of their blade masters. That's the reason Rand had any chance of winning the fight.
For that matter, why didn't Moiraine simply cut Lanfear into kibbles and bits? That, I assume, would've slowed her down considerably. And why didn't Lanfear take the peasant woman's horse in tow, to ride when her own mount foundered? To quote one of Amy's favorite creators, "Don't know!" 🙂
@@waltergold3457 if you think about it, would Lanfear even know anything about horses really? She came from the age of legends, which in lore is even more technologically advanced than we are now, so I assume horses were even more of novelty.
@@leekelly337 I don't think it too much of a stretch for a supernatural being to know something about horses, but on the other hand, why aren't there any remnants of that ancient technological world? The Breaking must have been cataclysmic indeed to remove all traces of it, and then you have to wonder why it took only 3,000 years for humanity to recover. But I guess I should just stop asking questions, consume product and ask for more product.
It would take a miracle to recover the show for fans of WoT. Like Rand waking up from a fever dream knowing all the stuff he dreamed was a worst case scenario. Then pick it up with the trolloc attack on the farm on page 3.
You hit it on the head, a cw show so just go with that and read the books if you want to see a experience the outstanding original story
Moiraine is no older than 45 years in the books, nowhere near the age they portray her in the show. the liandrin/suroth scene is extremely problematic as you have suroth announcing to an entire legion of soldiers and sul'dam that she is a dark freind. seachan hunt dark freinds to the ends of the earth, they may commit evil acts but are not alligned with the dark. then you have the seachan acting completely incompetent allowing nynaeve and elayne to escape. at least they didn't resort to nynaeve going super saiyen. lastly the whole bouncing back from being slammed into a wall that would kill a grown man nonsense.
Pretty darn sure the liandrin/suroth scene happened like that in the books with a few changes. That whole conversation basically got ignored by Suroth's underlings.
@@Ailthas in the books suroth rides a horse and only has the 2 sul'dam with the damane. she intentionally avoids bringing anyone else to avoid alerting soldiers on patrol and she only tells the Sul'dam that she is getting some more damane, while she does threaten liandrin she never lets on who she is working for and why. having an entire legion of soldiers involved with all the fan fare is literally announcing to the world she is a dark friend.
@joshuatempleton9556 "others were already there, just out of sight of the other side of the Gate. When she did notice them she stared uncertainly. They were as odd a group as she had ever seen and she had heard too many rumors of the war on Toman Head. Armored men. At least 50 of them with overlapping steel plates down their chests... "
There are also 2 damane and 2 suldam.
So your memory was close just off by about 50.
I've seen a lot of talk around the mouth sewing and head exploding, with claims about it not being in keeping with the One Power in the books. I haven't watched this season so I'm a little confused. Is it because they're shown only using threads of air? Doing these things with the One Power would certainly be possible, whether or not they would be with only certain elements of the One Power is debatable.
I'm guessing the sewing of the mouth was chosen because an actor standing around with their mouth gaped open to show them being gagged with Air probably looked a little silly and they thought this looked more sinister and appropriate coming from one of the Forsaken. That won't work for someone bound by the Three Oaths though, maybe they'll just have their Warder gag people with cloth.
Watch it and you'll understand.
Your video's sound is only in one ear. The last video was too.
Logain more powerful than Nynaeve confirmed!
I've yet to get to the end of s2e1 😂
Insufferable is a good way to describe the characters - but i just can't accept so many changes to the lore.
For someone who liked this episode you definitely had a lot of problems with it. You seem to want the show to explain everything to you just like a CW show. In this episode we should view Moraine as extremely desperate and not likable at all. They are all up against overwhelming odds to build tension for the finale.
No, I want the opposite of that.
I’m glad that you are finding the show somewhat more enjoyable. I haven’t watched the whole review yet but I most likely will. The only piece of feedback I would give you is that you should replace where you’ve said or written ‘book readers’ with ‘some book readers’ or ‘book readers that I have spoken to’ because you cannot possibly speak for all book readers. I’ve been reading and re-reading the books since 1990 and I am really enjoying the show. This season is superior to the first season but I have enjoyed the whole thing.
I don't believe I speak for all book readers but I think it is clear from context that I mean dissatisfied book readers.
They needed Moirane not to know where the road leads to , nor location, nor any particular spot on that road because if she did , she could have opened a portal and that would not have worked with the plot, because as you know she needs to know and have a clear image of the location in her head where she is opening a portal to... in the Show Liandrin is more likable than Moirane ... I think that says it all ha ha ... none book readers love Liandrin !
Lanfear could Skim, which can be done without being overly familiar with her current location. However, if she can just wait for them to sleep, then why would Lanfear go off chasing them?
Lol "GEO-FRAM Bornhald" 😂😂😂 is he a Geologist? Its pronounced "JEFF-FRAM"
My pronunciations are notoriously terrible. I started reading these books when I was 11 and some of the words just stuck in my brain in odd ways. Your amusement is acceptable.
@@amys0482 How about mine when you said "Lanfear's query" (instead of "Lanfear's quarry")? John Ciardi, best known for his English translation of the Divine Comedy, said that the true mark of a poet isn't the wish to say something important (or, I might add, woke - sorry, I couldn't resist) but rather the wish to hear words talking to each other in unexpected ways. Achievement unlocked! 🙂
It is amazing how much lighter an episode is without Alanna and her weepy widdle warders. The only reason they are there is to insert and help normalize poly relationships. That's it, not to forward the story, to forward ideology. I also suspect ideology is why Moraine is so unlikeable. Since every woman must be a girl-boss, she must be the girl-boss of girl-bosses. And since her entire story is "busy work" for the character........well shit, what's not to like? Personally, I can't wait for the next meeting with Siuane, since she is Siaune's slave thanks to the Oath Rod............see? they can't even do girl-bosses right, but I'll bet Siuane can!!!! lol Even so, they are clearly using the existing fan base to keep them afloat while they try to recruit a new audience, a new audience who prefers the "subjective realtity" of 2+2=5. A new audience who cannot seperate fantasy from any reality. A new audience that doesn't care about story, they only care about the characters and feeling "safe" when they self-insert themselves to hang out with said characters. When the target audience has set such a low bar, is it any wonder it shows in the writing? I sound crazy, I know, just don't think about it, blame the drugs lol
Seanchan, Sean Bean, Jackie Chan, Seanchan. Not swawchen.
Much better. I am happy to see you leaving out the venom and personal attacks against the people working on the show completely this time. This was a fairly good summary without much critical analysis which is fine. Over all vast improvement over previous videos on the show.
Before I address some of the things you said I am going to recommend that you do some light reading on formalist, structuralist, and semiotic film theory as I think this may address several "problems" you raise. What you are expecting from the show is a strictly realist which is not unfair as modern cinema is currently in a realist phase. While I won't say the show disregards realism (because it doesn't), it does so in some interesting ways. The realism operates more as a base frame from which more semiotic and structuralist molds build on.
Again with Moiriane and Lan both of those characters this season are being modeled much more heavily on their portrayal in book 3 in which they are much less likeable. I think there's a bit bit of nostalgia fog and rose colored glasses going on here. Really from The Dragon Reborn through The Fires of Heaven Moiraine becomes less likable as a character with her redemption coming in The Fires of Heaven. I would say her portrait in the show and in the books line up pretty well at this point. And Lan and her are in conflict throughout those books.
The assumption about the fingernail length I don't think bares out. When you look at the other stylistic choices made in the show it fits right in. The fact that this kind of stylistic choice is a repeated pattern lets us know that it's something that is being done intentionally. If we are going to understand it then we need to look at what modes the story is utilizing to tell its story.
In terms of the forsaken resurrecting in the same body. I think this is meant to explain how Ishy didn't have a new body the first couple of times he died in the books. Also something of note here how she healed herself. We know from the books that healing oneself with the one power is not a thing that can be done (or at least not something they know how to do). The fact that Lanfear uses the True Power to heal herself builds on the existing lore about the powers and the differences between them rather than changes existing lore.
About killing the horse. She tells the boys several times that she will see them dead rather than let them fall into the dark ones hands. Do you actually find it reasonable to claim that she is not ruthless? You keep saying what a likable character you think she is but you seem to be ignoring how ruthless she is in the books.
"Where does this road go." It's quite possible even plausible that while she knows where it goes locally she does not know where the road terminates or where it leads. She's been free for months which means prioritizing local and regional knowledge while you establish a power base and base of operations. This would have been moved down in priority while she attempted to seduce Rand. Seduce doesn't just mean sleep with.
It's interesting you think they are combining Lanfear and Semirhage as I actually suspect from things that were said that they are combining Semirhage and Moghedien. We could of course both be wrong or both correct. They might be splitting Semirhage between Moghedien and Lanfear, or neither.
Hopper is best boy.
So I think the reason for not having them show the white cloak legion overcome the town is because they are saving their budget for the battle in episode 8. If this is the case I approve and would rather not see the white cloak arrival. Now I could be wrong but I think Dain knows who Perrin is and is hiding him from Valda. I could be wrong about this. Geofram doesn't seem to hold Valda in high esteme and I could see his son acting against Valda if that were the case. At the same time he is making it clear to Perrin that if he acts openly or acts against the white cloaks he won't protect him. I really like this because it sets up Geofram joining sides with Valda after the death of his father.
As for the sewing the woman's mouth shut. She didn't use the one power she used the True Power. You have to really look but you can see Saa in her eyes. Also as to where she is going. She doesn't know where they are going so anywhere is good. My guess is to the next town so she can enter the world of dreams. And again you keep saying you think its out of character for Moiraine but I remind you she straight up threatens to murder the boys more than once.
I get why you would have a different set of questions. The three are unaware of the Black Ajah at this point and as far as they know from both lore and being in the white tower sisters cannot break the three oaths. I imagine a shock like that might take priority in their thoughts. But that is my take on it. I also think Liandrin is lying. I think why the show is showing she went to the dark is not why she actually went to the dark. It's misdirection.
A question I have is does Suroth know who he is? Or does she think he is just a higher ranking Dark Friend? Also I don't know if we are going to get the Rand Ishy fight. It seems a little early for me. Mat and Rand swore a pact back in season 1 and I think they are moving when Rand gets stabbed by the dagger forward and moving the Rand Ishy fight back. Given Ishy is a blade master I like this decision as even if he had been training with Lan since after the eye it's hard to believe any amount of training for six months can over come that gap. Ishy isn't just a blade master but has been one for hundreds of years. Beating High Lord Turak is already a hard ask.
Again when it comes to the fight I don't think its so much that he cares about an Aiel that was captured as he does thwarting Valda. Moiraine knows about Tel'aran'rhiod. She is the one who tells Perrin that it and the wolf dream are probably the same thing and that sisters who could enter it spoke of seeing wolves. Also Moiraine is shielded so she cannot ward their dreams. Also in book 1 she knows that dreams are dangerous and if not explaining dreams to the boys in season 1 is infuriating then you should find it equally as infuriating in book 1.
Eidetic memory exists in our world which means it exists in theirs (remember we are a previous age and a future age). It absolutely makes sense that yes an eidetic memory would be rare but if someone had it they would probably end up in the browns or the blues. It is dangerous to the brown sister but Verin knows who is black and who is not. I suspect that just like in the books 1:4/1:5 sisters are black Ajah.
As for shielding the girls. It's hard to say if shields work the same way they do in the books, that is unclear to me. If they do however then Liandrin can't transfer the shield and the Seanchan are not able to shield the girls until Liandrin drops her shield. You can link and take over the shielding but you cannot shield someone who is already shielded. I am not exactly sure how that whole scene with Moiraine joining the shielding of Logain works mechanically because they didn't explain it. I can think of three different ways it could work mechanically one of which is incorrect, one of which I don't think they did. This is something I hope gets explained at some point.
The chase scene feels like it had more to it originally but it got cut down.
I don't see the Min and Mat flirting and I have watched the episode several times.
"Nynaeve is occasionally insufferable in the books" LMAO. occasionally...
Not a fan of the knocking into the wall. Do I believe someone like a warder with a Yellow sister might do something like that? Ya. But I still don't like it. I do understand why it was done but still not a fan.
The advice she gets from her sister makes her much more like Fires of Heaven Moiriane when she stops trying to bully and manipulate Rand and finally becomes "Zen Moiraine". I don't think that's where her character is actually at yet but I do think it's setting up that future.
In the books Lanfear uses the mask of mirrors to look younger. When she drops it to show Rand what she looks like she looks older.
So something that is unexplained in the books is how much Ishy was locked away. We know that he was involved in world events prior to the dragons birth. How isn't really explained. It's possible that he has been involved in affairs in Seanchan since before Rand broke the seal. He is only half sealed away both in the books and the show but we still don't know what that means (either in the books or the show).
JFC.
@@IamVendel Holy shit dude nice, antisemitism.
@Amy Stewart they also gave Lanfear Moghedien's ability of being the best in the world of dreams by saying lanfear is the greatest when Mog can do things that even lanfear can't, the fact this info is given by a 3rd party is also concerning. Aviendha was too short and her hair way to long she's sposed to have short cropped hair at this stage as long hair gets in the way of fighting. but perrin towers over Aviendha. and it seems everyone knows the 2 Rivers intimately and it again makes it seem very cosmapolitan and way out in the middle of nowhere making the world a lot lot smaller also cairhein seems very close to tar valon ? so yeah it's a tiny world. the Aes Sedai do know of the world of dreams and know it's a talent though i think the last one with the talent was like 50 years ago if i remember the books correctly , and Moiraine does know of it but doesn't know how to do anything with it except for warding.
My question about the shields is why didn't machinchin come to harass the 3 since it requires channeling to shield and that attracts that being :|, my question wasn't why the damane take the shields over as that i would suspect requires co-operation from all sides, but why the damane didn't respond to liandrins channeling.
Didn't the show runners say they were going to go on a more poly route where the women have more partners and that love triangles were going to be a thing ? and this appears to be the first inklings of this, and they were going to change the harem sort of relation ship of rand ?
as a book reader i'm really confused about the 3 aes sedai, Liandrin, Sheriam and Verin since i know whom they all are especially with Verin and Sheriam and what they've done by this time.
I can't see Moiraine being killed off till the last season of the TV show, due to fear of her star power loosing people watching the show, especially since they've made her the face of the show and she is the Main Character where the others are supporting character
I think Aran'gar/Halima has a chance of appearing as 1 of the foresaken, and bring her in as Trans as that does seem in line with Rafe's ideals
The other issue with the timeline was you saw the arrival of the Seanchen to the mainland at the end of season 1, which means the seal that released ishmael didn't release him as he had been free more than 5 months of the current season 2 setting as he'd of had to do all this prior to the seanchen coming to the mainland :| and really how far away is this other nation if they got there rather quickly it's something that would take years to organise and orchestrate maybe 20years ?
Moghedien might be a true dreamer, but Lanfear was still better in TAR.
@@Ailthas no Mog was better in TAR she could do things in there that Lanfear couldn't she was also stronger in there , Lanfear did call it her realm but she was the only 1.
@@SirBlaze75 I think Lanfear is arrogant enough to believe she is best in the dreamworld and would also make it her reputation while Moggy would be more covertly skilled.
@@amys0482 oh to that i agree that lanfears arogance would make her believe she's the best, and promote it ie she does call it her realm, but Ishy would know better,
I like the inclusion of elements from book 3, it leads me to believe for the first time that they can finish the story in 8 seasons.
Tho I don’t think it was well written or improved very much.
Lanfear turning to the dark one because a man broke her heart 🤮 Lanfear's motivation has always been about gaining power, LTT left her because of it, she brought the dark one into the world in search of it, but now she's evil because she lost the D
Lanfear's outfit in the dream sequence was terrible, her whole look was always white not black.
An age gap between Ishy and Lanfear would be bad but Rand being 10-15 years younger than Min and Lanfear is great!? 🤷♂ Show Rand is likely to end up in bed with Moiraine, Alanna, Cadsuane et al. Probably with Ishy too given the scene we had.
The suggestion that they are merging Lanfear with Semirhage is a worry, Lanfear's motivations were unique among the forsaken. The event you refer to between Moiraine and Lanfear would then remove an extra forsaken from the show for a long period too. I just don't see them doing the door scene.
The Avi fight scene was full superhero not just black widow. They made it so dark that it was hard to see and had loads of cuts but even then it's obvious that not one Whitecloak made any attempt to hit her. The Whitecloaks wear no armour, they don't know how to fight, they don't know what "all at once" means, an absolute joke of a fighting force. It doesn't matter how many of them turn up at Falme, they are no threat to anyone. I always compare the show to The Last Kingdom for fight scenes and it is embarrassing.
The assumption that show Rand would need a recommendation from his former girlfriend or his friends to have sex with someone in the show is very strange. Elayne sleeps with Rand once in the books, Avi twice, the only book relationship that exists is with Min. What the show will give us is a complete mystery.
I didn't mean recommendation to have sex. Rand loves all three women in the books but the time he has to get to know and trust them in the show will be reduced.
Lanfear thirsts for power and glory but she doesn't go to the shadow until after Lews Therin spurns her. I think this is in the companion book. It was a narcissist's spiteful revenge more than a broken heart.
I still hold that show Aiel are too dangerous in comparison to the books. Book Aiel, from my admittedly fragmented memory, are dangerous but fightable. But this is a personal opinion.
Yes, the fight scenes are very super hero stylized rather than just really competent fighters. I enjoyed it, but I would have preferred something more realistic.
@@amys0482 My point is that with Elayne and Avi it is just sex in the books. Rand has feelings for them and does not know who he likes most but he spends no time with them. Personally if he had spent time with Elayne he'd soon stop thinking of her romantically...
Rand meets with Elayne for one afternoon in Caemlyn, a couple of weeks in Tear when they snog (off book) in corridors, one night in Caemlyn when they have sex, one conversation just before the last battle. That is it for Rand and Elayne's interactions in the entire book series. There are conversations between other people about their status but in terms of book / screen time there is almost none between these characters.
Avi does act as Rand's guide / teacher for a while but once they have sex she leaves to find Elayne and does not really spend anytime or speak to Rand until she decides to hook-up just before the last battle. Again there are conversations with other people but actual time together is limited to parts of two books in the series.
I don't see why the show should create new set-ups for Rand and the girls when (unless they change the story) they are not going to spend anytime together.
@@step4018 lol no. He marries all three.
People who keep comparing the show with books will always be disappointed.
Aiel fight choreography was ok. I still think this is an atrociously designed show. Butchery to book readers, yet an analytical person that hasn't read the books would find the story so disjointed.
Please stop saying "SWAN-CHIN" 🦢 It's pronounced "SHAWN CHAN" Like Sean Penn....