The only good that came out of the show is that it got me reading the books again. I stopped around book 9 due to waiting for the next book to be released and I decided to wait until the series was finished before continuing. The show got me reading from book 1 again. Currently, I am on book 12 and can really appreciate the books being able to read the whole thing at once.
Don’t give up in the slowdown books. As the last book, not written by the official writer (luckily) is very good. Good enough to fix the wrongs of the previous 2.5 books
The last book was very hard for me because while waiting for it I reread the series and figured out the ending… at least what I thought the ending should be, and needless to say the ending was very different and it was very upsetting to me how it was ended.
@@jsbrads1how was the ending different than what you expected? Jordan wrote the outline and even some of the text for the ending. And I thought the foreshadowing did pretty much predict a lot of it. Oh and make sure to add spoiler space if you answer this. Some on this thread haven't finished it.
One other thing that bugs me: I was re-reading The Great Hunt and realized another thing missing in the Rand story in the TV series. We've already skipped the relationship w/ Lan and the impact that had on Rand ("Elayne taught me how to rule, you taught me how to stand."). But in TGH, Rand first learns how to be a leader. When he Hurin and Loial get split, Rand has to figure out how to lead that small group. Where is Rand learning that here?
Rand isn't learning anything, obviously. But that doesn't matter in a way. The writers just have people accomplish things when their plans for the story call for it.
Who even knows if he will lead in this travesty of a story. They could solve that with Lews Therrin's memories but I don't expect this show to do anything logical.
@@amys0482 I'm still waiting to find out Moiraine is actually the Dragon Reborn... Not that I'm actually watching this train wreck...I just watch reviews from folks like you who have chosen to take one for the team, as it were. Your sacrifice is appreciated.
This is so true. That is my biggest criticism for the show. They keep side-lining the protagonist and diminishing significant moments and accomplishments in his story. He is meant to be a much better sword fighter at this point by training in the forms regularly for months with Lan then with Ingtar as they hunt the horn. They already destroyed his growth in the first book. he is meant to have skills and knowledge from the time spent with Thom that he uses in future books. Like paying the flute. This comes back over and over again. Also him running away and letting Thom ''die'' affects his decisions and refusing to let other die for him in other books.
This isn't the wheel of time. This is a modern fantasy series written by Rafe Judkins with a few themes stolen from Robert Jordan. For example. Rafe Judkins writes JK Rowlins Harry Potter as a television series. Heromine Grainger and her friends Parvarti Patil and Moaning Mertel, after graduating from high school enroll at a wizarding university. There they meet an opposing group of guys, Harry Potter the spoiled rich kid who thinks he is the chosen one, his friend Draco Malfoy who being from a poor upbringing lives in Harry's shadow and is the moral voice that keeps Harry's ego in check, and Neville Longbottom who recently lost his wife to a night bus accident. The angry and malicious grounds keeper, Hagrid constantly makes the boys go on dangerous quests in the forbidden forest, and they only succeed because of the help of the quirky, goofy and loveable Severous Snape, their potions professor. Most of the series focuses on the girls sexual exploits and Hermonie's sports prowess as the captain of the university quittage team.
The funny thing about his approach is how hamfisted he is at interpreting the themes. Example: one big thing across the series is how the current problems facing the characters during the run of the series, originated because men and women couldn't work together. The Taint on Saidin results after men run off on their own to fight a necessary fight without women who have all agreed not to join them. The Taint is a great metaphor for toxic masculinity and men and women solve it together. All of which is reinterpreted by Judkins as: men = arrogant and they endangered the world for no reason. He arguably isn't even using the themes or is using a very basic and often unintentionally subverted understanding of them. The whole production process of the series is a tragedy.
Outstanding analogue story, ameliamccombs4313! I have attempted to do what you just did twice; and I never landed it nearly as competently as what you just did.
Antelope, I don’t think there’s anything unintentional about rafe’s subverting of the themes in this story. He comes off as someone who despises the themes and the story on a deep level and sympathizes with the dark one and co. If you watch this show with the understanding that it is one of the visions of the way the world would be if the dark one won TLB it will make much more sense.
@@theabhorrentchef7226 Maybe, but then the whole 'hero' aspect that has for so long been a part of humanities cultural self reflection is being denied in every aspect - due to the fact that 'hero's' are not usually paragons of virtue but because they have done something heroic, so can be 'cast down' because they were not a paragon. I think Amy, in her review of series 1, stated that the equality inherent in the story was cast aside for the 'toxic masculine'/'feminine good' twist - in that series they do openly state that the male use of the power utilised the more aggressive elements of the power, which is just a reflection of reality rather than the theme of the world they are in. Males are, generally, more physically aggressive than females. Females are more verbally aggressive, perhaps, 100% speculation, that is why cancel culture has come about - reputation damage is more prevalent now than it used to be due to the equality of the sexes,
The whole Nynaeave wielding a sword.... It seems pretty clear to me that Judkins really likes to bring to life these elseworld-esque visions of things that never happened in the books. The whole Perrin wife thing originated because of a a very minor character that Perrin offhandedly remembers he once had a crush on when he runs into her in Book 4, with the larger context being how that theoretical relationship wouldn't have worked. Similarly, Nynaeve wielding a sword seems an outgrowth of a comment she made in Book 2, Chapter 18 ----- // The Amyrlin barked a laugh. “They told me you had a temper in you like a fisher-bird with a bone in its throat. Some of them, child, say you’d do well for some time as a novice, no matter how old you are. I say, if you have the ability I hear of, you deserve to be one of the Accepted.” She gave another laugh. “I always believe in giving people what they deserve. Yes. I suspect you will learn a great deal once you reach the White Tower.” // // *“I’d rather one of the Warders taught me how to use a sword,”* Nynaeve growled. // // “A sword?” the Amyrlin said. “I never thought swords were much use-even if you have the skill, child, there are always men who have as much, and a deal more strength-but if you want a sword. . . .” So this comment she makes results in her getting a lesson in the One Power and how much more useful it is than simple swordsmanship. In the TV show, it's a vehicle for Judkins to show some titillating sword action where she kicks more ass without any training required. And for them to so blithely/casually mention female warders even though the two halves of the Power make that rather problematic. But I guess if they're going to change the way the magic system works and the characters are getting overhauled into people that they weren't before, what difference does it make?
@@krissaunders6418Rafe did say, in response to a fan question about Mat’s famous quarterstaff scene with Galad and Gawyn that fans have been looking forward to seeing, that there would be a ‘more believable’ version in the show. I don’t see how anyone could possibly think giving a 2v1 sword fight to Nynaeve is either more believable (why would she be a better fighter than Mat?) or an adequate representation of Mat’s achievement. I guess we’ll find out for sure in the next few episodes whether that was it, or not. If that was the replacement, I think even more book fans will turn on the show.
@@ThumbMerrilin one could say one person being taught how to use a sword by 2 people and doing well is a more realistic version. Also winning a 2v1 because you have reach and luck is very realistic.
Thank you for sharing your takes on WoT series; I really enjoyed and benefitted from your less culture war-ish takes on it. They are thought-provoking and challenging in the best ways. My basic analysis of this series is that if you haven't read the books, you cannot possibly understand what's going on, or what the real stakes are, and if you *have* read the books, you probably hate large chunks of what the current showrunners are doing because it is an unfaithful adaptation. I don't mind an unfaithful adaptation if it is well-executed and has something interesting to say. This adaptation does not appear to have either quality. They seem to be trying to do a lot of things, and doing all of them poorly. Rather than telling a cohesive, character-driven story, they are creating a hodge-podge of tropes and beats from other ways of telling stories without the skill to fit them together. 1) They seem to be writing in a sort of show-don't-tell style, like a Hemingway-iceberg style where nine tenths of what's going on is below the surface, and we only see the small bits and have to decipher the rest. This is a technique that works well in other cases (the one that leaps to mind for me is The Way of the Gun, a movie that I'm sure did not inspire these showrunners in the least, but shows a successful use of that kind of style). However, here, it makes things feel kinda like a whodunit, and worse like a whatsgoingon. 2) Taking people like Nyneave, a very strong female character, and putting her into male roles (like swordfighter) and making her seem action-hero-y. This is a trope from a lot of more recent fare, but I generally think it suffers from trying to transform the woman into a man, and when it does, the results tend to be flattening and boring. Women can obviously have great action scenes and be badass warriors, but Nyneave isn't. To me, at least, she would think that men waving swords around as a means to settle arguments is one of their least endearing qualities (even if she did enjoy watching them practice), but even if it were in character, it doesn't make sense that she does as well as she does against trained warriors. The scene is executed so poorly here that it's both not believable *and* not in character. 3) They want to have their "good and evil" be less black and white, like most successful adult TV series of late (among them, GoT, Breaking Bad, etc.). They are trying to be morally ambiguous, which is a very common contemporary theme, in a story that has both a very distinct idea of good and evil (the light and the shadow) as well as the much more ambiguous human "evil" of class and gender conflict, political manipulation, abusive behavior, etc. The only "real" evil in the show is first, Shadar Logoth, and second, Child Byar and the Children of the Light. One is amorphous and not at all personified, so abstract that it seems more a force than a true evil of intent, and the other is utterly human cruelty. 4) The show wants its characters to have a traumatic background. It thinks, for some bizarre reason, that suffering emotional trauma (no matter how pointless) makes characters somehow more interesting. Egwene shoved off a cliff to become a woman (that felt like a very male look at a coming of age ritual; in my experience, women as a group rarely decide to engage in pointlessly risky, life-threatening rituals; that sort of seemingly pointless physical risk-taking strikes me as much more male). Perrin killing his wife by accident (as far as I can tell, the only reason they gave him a wife was to kill her). Matt having an alcoholic mother an nasty philanderer father. It's like they were embarrassed of the idyllic village life that the books imagine for their heroes, like they had a point of view that even villages like that only *seem* idyllic. If that was the point, okay, but it was done without any real regard to their character or what the central conflicts of the immediately proceeding aspects of the story would be (the very sheltered, very conservative children going into a world which did not share their values and which was far more dangerous than they could imagine). The whole thing stinks of focusing on one "unreality" of which the show is embarrassed in the book (the idyllic village) and wanting to subvert that, but doing so in a ham-handed way that has immense impacts on the downstream parts of the story. In short, it's all poorly executed. 5) They want to diversify the people, so that they don't appear so uniformly white. I get this, but again, it's executed poorly. If you want to have, say, black or asian or native american or any other non-white set of main characters, I'm fine with that. I like that kind of subversion even. But it *has to make sense*. Why the heck would you have all these dramatically mixed races within a tiny hamlet village that's been geographically isolated for hundreds of years? If you want to do this kind of subversion, make the whole place Kenyan or Brazilian or Mongolian or something; they don't need to look identical, but they do all need to look like they are interrelated. Make the *place* make sense. Otherwise, that kind of huge variation does two things: 1) it muddies the fact that Rand is actually an outsider, and 2) it makes the entire place feel weirdly incoherent, like it's some bustling town at the nexus of trade routes between several distinct nations, rather than a backwater. My overall impression is that the show is embarrassed of the book's values. It's embarrassed by its classical fantasy epic tone and conflicts (good versus evil, for example). It's embarrassed of heroism in general, and especially of male heroism. It's embarrassed of the romantic ideal of the innocent country backwater. It's embarrassed of the fact that most fantasy tends to have white protagonists. It's embarrassed of the story's fairly stiffly-defined gender traits and gender roles (while at the same time seeming to be unaware of the fairly radically egalitarian vision the novel has of the genders). It's embarrassed of the Two Rivers folk's very conservative attitudes towards sex. It's being rewritten to obscure or modify the things that embarrass it, and doing so in ham-handed and incompetent ways that destroy everything that made the original story compelling by people who either care more about what's embarrassing than they do about compelling and coherent characters, or are too poorly-skilled at what they do to execute the changes in tone and character without wrecking the characters and story. It's like an epic fantasy story that's embarrassed of being a fairly normal to the genre epic fantasy story, so it's trying to make itself a less embarrassing version of itself, and succeeding only in creating a chaos of tropes and ideas that it fails to weave together, at least so far.
Always appreciate your reviews. You picked on a lot of things I didn’t think about. I was just happy the show wasn’t a complete disaster like last season. I was also really upset about Lan losing almost every fight. I don’t see how he’s going to be useful if he can’t take on some fades. He’s supposed to be one of the 10 best swordsmen in the world. Maybe it’s the weakened warded bond? I also agree that he’s way too sensitive. He has a sensitivity that shows over time, not always gushy
Yeah, it's super frustrating. Lan without a bond should still be deadly in hand to hand, and it was explained in the books that 1v1ing a Fade was entirely possible for a skilled human fighter (though armed, as D&D Monks aren't a thing in WOT).
Love your reviews, by far the most balanced and honest I've watched. Only thing I would point out is the story of Lan's carneira, the older woman being his first lover is not made up, but is a minor plot point in New Spring(RJ's prequel for those who don't know).
hey Amy, great to see your review again - I watched your reviews back in S1 and had very similar feelings. I almost didn't want to watch S2 but I guess I couldn't help myself. my older brother who introduced me to Robert Jordan recently passed and I just felt like wanting to see this world again for his sake. To be fair, S2 seems slightly better but I'm stunned honestly how anyone who hasn't read the books even knows WTH is going on with literally no introduction of characters or backstory. I'm invested so far I guess but like you, I have low expectations lol
Rafe is a darkfriend Racism is on life support, kept alive with things like tokenism, forced inclusion, low expectations, MSM & “entertainment” psyop bs. Every aspect of this show is horrendous
I think it's great how the books were so well written, with more or less of a message that even though there can be a great hero, everyone is important. Saddly, here, there's no such hero. Rand is given the barest minimum of action and relevance, even though there is no more secrecy or suspence anymore about him being the Dragon Reborn. The boys are let to the side to not bring shadow to the girls, and the girls do not even get to have great character arcs. A lot of the improvements actually cheapen the characters even more than their actual arcs. Moiraine learnt humility and honesty in a great way in the books, furthering her relationship with Rand, instead of being stilled and playing housemaid. Nyneave has actual reasons to act angry and to despise Aes Sedai, instead of just acting sulky. Even though there is a moment in the books where Egwene disagrees with Nyneave taking the lead like she's still the wisdom of their village, she never act jealous about being less powerful than Nyneave. I still think it was a bad idea to not have the different nations have their own distinctive look, in costume as in hairstyling and ethnicity. The people travel in the map, and I feel like distance barely shows, and that the funny culture shocks cannot be done anymore.
It was super refreshing watching shadow and bone when they portrayed a nation of people as a distinct ethnicity! The Shu people had this neat chinese aesthetic that enhanced immersion rather nicely.
Appreciate your initial thoughts, Amy. I agree on most of them. It's a shame that the show, and supporting or criticising it, has become politicised in the culture wars and this has clouded frank and respectful discussion and criticism of it. Which I find strange because I still don't find the show to be a particularly authentic or effective vehicle for progressive messages - if that is the intent of the writers, I don't think it's working. I really struggle to come up with many positive things to say about season 2. The production quality has improved as you noted, they've found a lot more extras to make places like the Tower feel more lived in and populated, and the CGI for the Power looks better (still not the intricate weaves described in the books, but better looking than the single coloured streams in season 1). As to negatives, your video covers most of mine very well so I won't waste too much more space on them here. I just want to reiterate your point about the show not seeming to respect or understand its male characters, especially Rand, Mat and Perrin. Even in the few scenes they are in, things just happen to them, and other characters make choices for them and talk at them, rather than them making deliberate choices, proactively taking actions and holding their own in conversations as main characters are meant to do. Will it improve? We'll see, but I'm not optimistic about it. Also, sorry to hear about your cat, and I hope the other one is doing OK.
So, you have a ready-made winner with an established fanbase that has been around for three decades. Why would you diverge from the themes, characters, and plots in a huge way, if it WASN'T about ideology? The reason it doesn't come off as authentic or effective, is that they suck at writing, and their ideology does not even remotely fit Jordan's world, or ours for that matter.
55:20 this is mention in 1e04 when Nynaeve catches Lan praying and she says a prayer that were the last words her father told her before they got overrun by brigands. So presumably this is exactly the scene as she remembered it.
I think they wanted it more visual and less encumbering for the actors than leashes but it's one of those changes that isn't really necessary. I do think the costumes are striking, despite being inaccurate
So good at what you do Amy, love your break downs. S1 already revealed Rafe to be a casual WoT fan at best, and S2 just drives it home. I came in expecting absolutely nothing to be the same so I was actually pleasantly surprised to see some easter eggs of faithful moments…which is so sad when you think about it. Our beloved story has been reduced to “easter egg” moments within a total reimagining of far less quality. The show is so reductive in so many ways, it’s sickening when you stop to think about it. I was actually a little high on the improvement to production, but then I watched this and realized I had just lowered my expectations so much that i mind jobbed myself into acquiescence. Thx for fighting the good fight on our behalf!
The production quality is better and it's kind of enjoyable for the glimpses of wheel of time. And the acting. But it is very frustrating as an adaptation.
@@amys0482 I noticed that they no longer refer to it as an "adaptation", but rather, as "based on" Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. At least they are being more honest about it.
It's the same with the Witcher, Rings of Power, etc. The producers THINK they're making something for a bigger audience, but in doing so (badly), they abandon the built-in audience that drives the hype-train. I know plenty of people that ENJOYED the Star Wars Disney trilogy... but they're not buying the books, action figures, toys, clothing, etc. The same for the recent series of Game of Thrones wannabes - they'll enjoy the spectacle, but don't really care or connect with it, and aren't obsessed with every aspect of it the way a core fan(atic) is. The original material is almost universally better. What do I think is the lesson for producers? When you find yourself saying "we can improve on this," ask yourself if you're a better writer than the original author. Ask yourself if you could have written the massive best-sellers these properties are based on. If the answer is no, then take a humble pill and let the authors speak for themselves. Do the best you can to translate the work without transforming it entirely.
How did Liandrin Know that Mat would attempt to escape thru the wall into that specific cell where Min was? This season already has some weird loopholes as well as not explaining or changing errors made in the last season. It's like the writers have no editors or at least anyone with reasoning skills. Also it needs to be said that when one writes for a character of the opposite gender, consideration should be made to ask,"Is this something this character would do or a man or woman would do or say?"
Yes. I haven't read the books but I got so confused by everything that I started discussing it with Chatgpt. That got me intrigued though and now I am reading the books which only makes me more frustrated with the show. Yay.
Thank you so much for the work that you do. I had given up on this "adaption" after the 3rd episode of season 1. However, I have SO enjoyed your analysis and insight for S1, and am extremely excited to see your posts re S2,, so please keep them up, they are great. ✌️ a fellow book lover 🇦🇺
The canon #1 trait of all followers of the Dark One, explicitly stated in the books, is selfishness. But Rafe seems to be obsessed with making the Dark One the good guy, to the point where he made the sealing of the bore a preemptive, unprovoked first strike by Lews Therin.
Thanks for another fascinating video. You really manage to put my confused feelings about the programme into words whilst keeping a measured and resonable outlook. Another Elayne fan, hooray! I didn't (couldn't?) appreciate her when I read the books as a teenager, but as an adult she's a clear favourite (apart from most of Winter's Heart til Towers of Midnight anyway).
Hi Amy - so happy to see your review! I've been waiting for your take since I heard S2 dropped. Based on what I've heard so far, it wasn't likely I'd jump back in but after hearing your take I definitely will not. In some ways, I feel relieved that this show has deviated so far it is no longer recognizable. I won't need to get get my brain into a twist trying to reconcile this thing with the books. Lots of mental energy saved. I might have been interested in binging it after the show airs completely but hearing that the writing has not improved I will not be wasting any time on this show at all. Regarding the curious character changes (ie Selene and Lliandin) I wonder if it is because they are merging several characters together on the show versions. For example, I've heard a theory that Lliandrin maybe an amalgam of Alviarin and/or Galina. Selene maybe merged with Semirhage (possibly Graendal as well) since her place with the Seanchan appears to have been taken (from the trailers I've seen) by Ishmael. i have no idea what they're doing with the 3 boys at all based on these reviews. It's mind boggling that they spend so much time on developing secondary characters while shunting the main characters to the background and simultaneously making them as unlikable as possible. It all sounds a bit like an anthology with character vignettes and no overarching storyline. It all seems so pointless. If the dragon reborn isn't the focus then what is the point of this story? Is there a story?
This is a great point...they have combined so many characters into one, okay fine, because of the need to condense the story to fit within the confines of an episodic series. But why introduce new, made up characters and story lines not directly related to the story? They spent an entire episode on a warder that never existed (and what they have done to Lan upsets me greatly)! Meanwhile, Thom gets barely a head nod and they have seemingly ruined the 3 ta'veren at a fundamental level (Mat not going into the ways and abandoning his friends, Perrin and the frigged wife, and Rand sleeping with Selene...sigh. All unnecessary.) And the whole Min/Mat plot, Liandrin's personal story line? I just can't watch this show.
@@katakayogi5033 More and more I get the impression that Thom in the first season was a cameo - a nod (and not a particularly good one) to the fans, and that he will not be back. What after all, at this point, would be the point?
@@nathanmorgan3647 My first thought upon watching that episode. However, I don't expect to see him anyway/ What is he? A great captain? Heck, we don't need no stinkin great captains! Obvious too, from season 1. The girls can handle anything and everything. Maybe they will just put Aviendha in charge of the armies.
Thanks Amy, I look forward to and will continue to watch your reviews, but I will pass on the show. As a book fan I wanted to see Jordans story brought to life, not the travesty that was put to screen from season one and what you describe for season 2. It truly saddens me what has been done to my favorite story.
Never thought about the meaning of a “round table”, good catch. I took Moiraine’s manual labor to be, they’re in a remote area and have no servants. They probably mirrored her catching fish with Perrin. Moiraine and Lan’s interaction is horrid. I didn’t like her threat about, passing his bond. Bonds shouldn’t exist for stilled. Just like the 3 oaths go away. Also if she is stilled, her oath of exile goes away. Moiraine is the greatest Aes Sedai in the whole series and they really are bringing down her character. The aes Sedai hitting on Lan I did not like. They books mention how rude it is to command or mess with another Aes Sedai’s Warder. It may not be law but it’s “custom” as they say. Yeah, she told Lan last season, “he’s gone”. Lan took that as dead. But very true, it’s all about Tarmon Gai’don. Moiraine doesn’t let Rand get away, “what the dark one wants I oppose”, “I’ll kill you before letting the dark one have you”. Mat, is getting better. I said last season the actor didn’t have Mat energy. This one seems to be headed in the right direction even if they aren’t letting him be book Mat. Nyneave’s storyline continues to be terrible. Egwene’s still the threatening people🤦🏻♂️. Also THEY’RE NOVICES!!! They should be so busy they don’t have time to sword fight, they shouldn’t speak to Aes Sedai unless first addressed. But they’re running around giggling and doing whatever. And get that waist belt off Nyneave. This is like boot camp and she’s like I’m gonna wear what I want. Who’s delivering Perrin’s letters? That’s the real question. I think they’re hitting the beats of the book for the book fans. “They’re going after the horn” okay bake to the girls. Rand’s ran off on his own, okay back to the girls. Look it’s Bayle Doman; okay back to the girls. See we still have mat, okay back to the girls. Yes Lan is way too emotive in the show. Elyas is fine, though he did feel like just another “beat”, like Thom. It was like, see we showed Elyas, okay back to the girls. Liandren, I’m so confused with the direction, but the actor is killing it. Story wise I don’t like it, acting wise she’s great. Rand sleeping with Selene, the show should end there. That’s the end of the world, Tarmon Gai’don is lost. Yeah his actions in this season so far he should be considered already lost. The Dark One already owns him. At first I thought the change of Perrin seeing the fly scene with his wolf senses made sense but the lord I think about it I just don’t know. Okay I’m tired lol
Hey, so I have been watching your channel since the first season came out because I like to get different viewpoints on the show and from people with different backgrounds and opinions. I don’t know if your other viewers would agree or not, but honestly, I think I would like to get your in-depth take on the books themselves! Like a re-read and walk through section by section of each book, even on a weekly basis, where you divide each book into sections, and go through it! I love rereading these pugs, and I like watching channels that go through each of the books in detail, and talk about it. Kind of like a watch party, but for books! Is that something you would ever consider or would be fun for you?
It would be fun if I had time for it. I am fighting my own quality bar, where to really do it justice I would have to write essays on each book, then film and edit, which is very time consuming. Maybe I could answer fan questions or something, which would be easier.
I will say regarding your discussion about Tarwin’s Gap, it wasn’t a routine trolloc raid, it was actually a big deal (granted definitely not the Last Battle or Horne of Valere big) and Agelmar was very worried about it, they were on the brink of being destroyed at the Gap until Rand skimmed there from the Eye.
Right. And they took that moment from Rand. But what they showed us in the TV show didn't look that bad. There was a gigantic wall and tiny defendable gates. The whole set up was confusing.
Logain's Talent wasn't seeing men who could channel, but can see Ta'Veren and Rand glowed brighter than any other genre ever saw. Also as Logain was from Ghealdan, desiring a Ghealdanin Red for a taste of home makes sense.
@@Mahalleinir Particularly since in the books, the Aes Sedai never let Logain out of their sight. They were trying to keep him alive, because gentling a man makes him suicidal. Haven't seen anything here yet that makes Logain look suicidal (just insane), and the Aes Sedai seem to have just cast him off.
I just hated Season 1 and can't even be bothered to watch Season 2. I do really enjoy that you gave honest feed back without minimizing the shitty parts of tv show like other youtubers seem to be doing. The showrunner really seems to hate men or wants to minimize the men's role in this show to the point that I honestly thought they were going to be like Egwene is the Dragon Reborn in the last episode of Season 1. Like they can't even be true to the books where Perrin is wielding an axe for his conflict with axe and hammer later. It seems like such a small detail that would cost them 0 production cost to add but they can't even be true in the small things.
I guess at this point it would be hard for Perrin to be seen using an axe - since he used one to kill his wife. Another downstream problem caused by the decision to have him married and kill his wife (with an axe) in season 1.
I thought to give season 2 a chance and started to watch it, but couldn't get past 15 minutes of the first episode. So I am grateful for your insightful recaps of those episodes. Allows me to know what the story being told is without having to go through the cringe of the actual show. As well it shows that having writers with experience and knowledge is a requirement for a story that draws on so many cultural as well as historical themes and complex motivations.
// I thought to give season 2 a chance.... I honestly couldn't after Episode 1. Too much writing on the wall that they had no clue what they were doing in some ways, combined with a shit ton of changes coming from a place that's clearly dismissive and disrespectful of the source material.
I struggled on through episode 3. And I really had to struggle. I really wanted to see Aviendha - but I can't. I simply can't. Probably a good thing. She has probably been desecrated as well.
I can't bring myself to watch the new season, even as a hate watch. I still wanted to hear how much worse they butchered everything, so I appreciate how deeply you go into the differences and story problems they create.
IIRC Lord Agelmar's sister, the one trained in the tower, was asked by Moiraine to send a warning to look out for Matrim Cauthon. She asked to whom she should send the message and Moiraine replied, "the Red Ajah". As Liandrin is the only Red Sister we've been introduced to thus far, she obviously captured and imprisoned him in an effort to discover Moiraine's secrets. I think this is the same reason Min Farshaw was imprisoned in the cell next door.
Which makes Moiraine look like a fool. Sending a DR candidate, and a definite Ta'veren, into the arms of her ideological and political enemies in the Tower (the Reds were diametrically opposed to the Blues). It makes literally zero sense.
I did forget about this, but since it has been two years, it could have been in a recap or dropped in some other way. I also think it's just dumb. This plan is overly convoluted. How did Liandrin know that Mat would dig through the wall?
@@amys0482 Perhaps Min didn't hide the hole in the wall as well as Mat did, and Liandrin found out. Then co-opted Min's cooperation, knowing that at some point Mat would leave, and likely take Min with him? Who knows? Min in this series, like all the other characters, isn't very likable, (or loyal). I think they are trying to play up a Mat/Min hookup here, with Min waiting to betray him in the end.
It’s so refreshing to hear an honest critique of the TV series from a book reader that isn’t focused on skin color, gender and today’s culture wars , though some commentary of that may be unavoidable. The problem with the series isn’t its perceived “wokeness “, it’s the butchering of a great story ( a book series with a large and dedicated fan base), it’s history and lore by less talented storytellers who seem to think that they are better writers than the well respected author of a popular and highly acclaimed fantasy book series!
All these issues you mentioned are direct results of the "wokeness" they want to push. Without that driving factor they wouldnt add these terrible changes
Totally agree. I said as much multiple times. They took a world and it's IP and then made fan fiction that IS NOWHERE NEAR as good as the original. I've watched dozens of "adaptations" that are smart enough to say "based on the world of..." However, them constantly saying its using the source material is like reading a reddit user's rewrite of Pride and Prejudice.
Spoilers for later in the series: The Arches did malfunction when Egwene entered, but she brought a dream terangreal into the room. It made it hard for the Aes Sedai to maintain the function of the Arches, but they held on until Egwene exited and there wasn’t hours and telling friends she was dead. It seems this show is being created by people who like to kill off people and constantly bring them back to life, I’m tired of how often it is being used.
I liked Nyneave's accepted test in the show but not how the ter'angreal totally shuts down. If they had just had the sisters waiting a LONG time and discussing in distress that she might not come out, that would have been better than Nyneave just opening the arches on her own from the inside. This show doesn't care about the magic system though
@@jsbrads1 To me the show implied it was nynaeve's channeling that brought it about. By the time the arch reappeared Egwene had already given up and was sleeping.
with any changes that may or may happen ,most of them could only happen in the editors room unless extensive reshoots were done and weren't covered in the appropriate news, since they finished filming the 2nd season about a month after they released season 1 aka they'd already done 6 -8 months of shooting already. And as far as i know they're filming season 3 currently, aka due to finish filming next month, so just as season 2 ends showing they'll be ending filming so can again only make changes through reshoots or in the editing room Wasn't logains Talent , the ability to see Ta'veren ?
I press pause quite a bit during these episodes so that the actors names, and their character names pop up at the bottom of the screen. This helps immediately knowing who is who.
They don't have extras to portray plausibly large expeditionary force and they don't have VFX artists to create CGI ones. Because it's a major TV series, lest we forget.
Thanks for calling out Rand beating a dude up to a pulp only to take his job. Even the darkest version of later books Rand would never do such a thing.
Seriously. Rand gets physically and emotionally abused and has a lot of tense stress responses that causes him to treat people with increasing callousness as a leader, but he never does anything like this, even at his worst.
Thank you for your recap and review. Season one hurt alot and i won't support this show so im not watching season 2 but i will absolutely watch reviewers recap it for the comedy of both book and non-book readers being utterly bewildered by the writing 😂 Keep up the good work 👍
I know it seems like there was nearly 2 years for the producers to consider "corrections", but they have already filmed much of season 2 before season 1 was finished being published on Amazon. So most of their problems were continued and exacerbated.
The Liandrin/elderly-son subplot did drive home the point about the slow aging of Aes Sedai. But it does seem to raise at least a few questions about warders, who I assume age at normal rates. I would think that in the campfire scene about warder origins, that the Aes Sedai might mention the 5-10 (?) warders they've had over the years. A general criticism of this and other series (such as Rings of Power) is, when you have such rich source material, why invent new things and derail carefully constructed plotlines that authors spent years or decades revising? Do showrunners think they'll get a plum or something? Peter Jackson's rep was at its highest regard when he stuck very close to the plot in the original LOTR trilogy. Dan&Dan (from GoT) were also considered superstars when they stuck to the written material. The book fans *want* to stick to the book plot -- they won't get bored, promise! Rafe Judkins, please take a lesson here!
If they wanted to show the devastating reality of aging, having a scene with a young aes sedai watching her old man wader die in the yellow's ward would have served. I don't think this is important, though. Even if Liandrin is going to be merged with Elaida, which seems likely, I don't understand what we are supposed to take away from this scene. I guess we'll see if it becomes relevant later. So far it just seems like a clumsy attempt to humanize Liandrin. I think the actress is doing a great job, but this scene did not make me like this character more.
@@amys0482elaid ais mentioned m By elayne episode 2. So she is a swperate character. Liandrin is being set up as a reedmed character. She only joined the dark one to save her son and so it's "understandable" It's Scarlett witch killing a entire timelines because she wanted her kids that died in a town she mindcontrolled for months. Don't worry it's OK Scarlett witch is a woman and that's OK that they committed genocide
IIRC Warders live longer and stay active/healthy FAR longer than normal unbonded humans. It's not like they live as long as an Aes Sedai, but the turnover rate is lower than you'd expect. Old Warders are only marginally slower than young ones, and more dangerous due to sheer experience.
Im black. What you said about the casting is nonsense. They literally are forced through dei policies to pick a "diverse" cast. That makes it political. People voicing their disappointment does not make them racist. Especially whem the auther said who and what he wanted the actors to look like. It makes zero sense. After 3000 years blood lines would blend. It makes all the locations look the same when the differences between people and locations was a big part of the books. A show does not have to reflect the skin colour of the people who watch it. That is racist. Regardless of the level of adaptation. This show makes zero sense. The only thing associated with Jordans work is the names. It looks like people in la playing cosplay not a fantasy show.
If this entire show was of the adaptation quality we got for Nynaeve's Accepted test and surrounding scenes, I'd be so so excited. These scenes also really sold Zoe's acting for Nynaeve, she really felt like the character to me here. For all the other issues and inconsistencies and questionable changes of the books I loved, they proved at least that they CAN do a proper adaptation of at least some of this if they really want. So let's see more of that! Subtle and refreshing intelligent changes to better fit TV vs the page, but following the original main plot and lore, please...
Yeah, the changes made to the accepted test were fine. I disliked the terangreal totally closing and Nyneave powering them open from the inside, but overall it was fine. The changes to her visions were fine.
I think Liandrin is actually Liandrin+Elaida. We never went to Camelyn in S1 so Elaida was never introduced. Kate Fleetwood is playing Liandrin very well, but also in a different way than in the books, with previous hints that she is gaining support from other Ajahs. Time will tell, but I think Liandrin may become Amerylin in the future, if the reds continue to get support.
There are leaks suggesting Elaida has been cast and will be played by a fairly well known actor. Elaida is supposedly Rafe Judkins' favorite character.
I forgot about that, I remember a fan twitter storm telling an actress she would be a great Cadsuane, and Rafe contacting her about a role on the show, that he had in mind for her. She is older IRL but could pull off Elaida or Cadsuane.@@cairhieningent
If Elaida is Rafe's favorite character, that explains so much and makes me wonder if he only got as far in the books to the RP game (where you could play Elaida)? SMH, just like Elaida screwing things up in the Tower, Rafe is screwing this up, too.
Thanks for mentioning the missteps with the Seanchan! You are one of the first I have seen actually commenting on this. I realize that there are other things to be upset about, but I really don't like this. They are adding nuance to dark friends, but removing it from the Seanchan? I forgave the small town vibe due to budget, etc. We definitely heard some gruesome/scary things about them, but we the viewers have now seen this brutal attack. This isn't unreliable information. Why are they attacking the town in the middle of the night? Just to give us a fight scene? There should be plenty of legitimate ones lol.
Nice to see the video, thank you for your valued review and insight. Personally, I think that 'standard' script writers need the audience to be stupid in order to just clap along and appreciate something because it has been made, not because it deserves any appreciation due to the quality of the show: hubris and condescension.
I just want to say you are a braver person than I am and thank you for reviewing what’s out for season 2 so far. I stop watching after episode 4 of season 1. I couldn’t bring myself to continue because I feel the show is so awful. It was upsetting from the very beginning to find that they had changed ALL of the characters’ back stories. What was that about? I have come to the same conclusion that you presented in your review, the object of this was and is to make money. Watching your review was as if you and I had sat down over coffee and discussed what we find incredibly wrong with the tv version of Robert Jordan’s work. I have read the entire series 4 times and I don’t think he would have allowed this travesty to have his name attached to it. It just makes me so sad because I was so excited when I found out that Amazon was bringing it to tv.😢
I’ve had many issues with this show. The poor job they did in S1 is what got me to go back to read the books, and I’ve absolutely loved them (currently reading LoC on round 2). Aside for butchering the characters from how they are depicted in the books, the whole Myrdrall/Lan fight is off. Lan is literally one of, if not the best, swordsman alive. In the books he goes up agains dozens of enemies, including multiple fades, and beats them. And here it’s as if he doesn’t know how to fight. Surprised no one commented on that
The fight choreography imo is quite bad. Too many jump cuts, not enough swordplay. Why did the myrdraal bite at him instead of taunting him? We know they can speak... And why fades and not dragkar? That would've been 100x more tense and foreboding having Moiraine caught in the sirens song...
I know this is not the intention but your reviews to Wheel of time come so shady and entertaining, I am living every minute of your videos Amy. Please never change.
Amy you hit the nail on the head with how the writers aren't explaining anything. Scenes are just dropped in one after the other without any context. Who are these people ? Where are they ? What are they doing and why are they doing it ? What is the Horn of Valere and why is it important ? And the same for the dagger from Shadar Logoth. The "writers" either haven't got a clue about the basic and necessary ingredients of story telling or they are deliberately ignoring them. I have a notion of what may be going on with the writing for Rand, Mat and Perrin. I think that so far their characters ( to varying degrees ) have been presented as examples of toxic masculinity. Rand is an angry pain in the butt and now a thug. Mat is an antisocial pain in the butt and a thief. And Perrin killed his probably pregnant wife to whom he was also unfaithful, if only in his heart. Even Lan who was stoical and steadfastly dedicated to Moiraine as her Warder in the books is in this show depicted ( when tested by the fallout from Moiraine's stilling or shielding ) as an angry man and even possibly a possessive type who is also tainted by toxic masculinity. In this show none of them are really trustworthy.
Gawd, I hope not. There was enough toxic masculinity in the original book series to make that unnecessary and offensive. Lan's advice to Rand about duty is toxic af. Nyneave changes Lan for the better. Rand nearly destroys the world trying to distance himself from his emotions. That is central to his character arc. Perrin also has some "nice guy" toxic traits that lead to trouble in his marriage, where he refuses to treat Faile like an equal. Mat's philandering and belittling of women lands him in some trouble too. They didn't need to change these characters to comment on messages given to men that are not always healthy for them.
Amy - Yes Lan's advice could be appalling. " Sheathing the sword " was about as awful as it gets ! I think Robert Jordan was putting his war experiences into the books and it is pretty traumatic at times. Some of his writing is torture porn really.
I think they are going to try to Jamie Liandrin. I think the writers are trying to turn the WOT books into the GOT TV show. I think that's been the goal since day one. I'm surprised we haven't had more nudity and sex.
I won't watch season 3. It took me months to watch season 1 and 2 but I've had enough! I'll continue to watch your reactions though, your insights are great.
46:17 - That's actually taken directly from _New Spring,_ though... Both male and female Malkieri were expected to have a _carneira_ at some point between 15 - 18 years old, and it was absolutely a sexual relationship. In all cases, the women were the ones who initiated the relationship, i.e. young women chose older men, and older women chose a young man. But I'm not surprised that one of the only things they actually adapted accurately is a borderline abusive sexual relationship between an older adult and a minor...
@@amys0482 Yeah, I can understand that. It's different enough to feel a little out of place with the rest of the series. It's not my favorite, either. Also, the hacks making this show have needlessly changed and created so much stuff, it's perfectly understandable that you forgot something from a book you only read once. I'm enjoying your commentary on the series. Keep up the great work!
Selene couldn't be more wrong. She is nothing like the books. She would never be slumming in the Foregate, she was constantly pushing Rand to become great, to pursue power and glory. Also, the actress is quite attractive, but way too old for Selene. She would have been great as Elaida, just not Selene.
I agree. I don't expect the actress to be the most beautiful woman in the world bc that is too subjective, but she should "seem" to be the same age as Rand and very attractive and pristine and haughty. This actress is easily 10 years older than Rand and the physical abuse element of their relationship is just off for me. "Selene" is absolutely abusive, but it should be in a more emotionally manipulative and narcissistic way.
My biggest criticism of the first episode was Rand’s screen time. 12 seconds is just too much for the main character. Also, they could have given us another 30 minutes of Alanna describing how it feels to get railed by two guys, not sure why they kept that to ten minutes isn’t that what WoT is all about? Also, Lan could have whined and been Moiraine’s dog a bit more, not sure why the stone faced upstanding man portrayal. Otherwise it was absolute perfection! I’m so glad we got such a great writing, directing, and showrunning team for the only adaptation of my favorite book series I’ll see in my lifetime! :)
I wonder if, perhaps, you are too pessimistic about that. General audience appetite for fantasy is much greater these days than it used to be. It wouldn't surprise me if we see another attempt at rendering the Wheel of Time within the next 20 years.
@@gilian2587I don’t know, with how much of a flop this is turning out to be I don’t think anyone else will want to touch it for another eternity honestly. I feel the show is unfortunately tainting the books’ reputation, or at least providing fuel for the view that they are “unadaptable”.
@@Mahalleinir The Lord of the Rings also had that reputation before Peter Jackson came along. Dune was considered unadaptable before a certain Canadian studio came along to adapt it as a tv series. Although, I do believe that the Wheel of Time show is on course to catastrophically fail in much a similar way as the Hindenburg; ending with infamy amongst the fanbase, and as a flash in the pan among everyone else - soon to be forgotten.
@@Mahalleinirproblem is that it isn't a flop. Rotten tomatoes rating is high amongst both audience and critics, it's most watched Amazon show in like 15 countries, season 3 is already green lit. I think it's finding an audience just not one made up of book readers.
@@Gilescowdemdem Rotten Tomatoes has been victim to a lot of astroturfing as of late; so it's difficult to tell if the either the critic scores or the audience scores are an accurate reflection of the show's reception. You may be right that the show is finding an audience; only time will tell if this audience is significant enough to keep the holey little boat afloat.
Rand is an interesting case. Rands moral towards men changes as he grows up in the world of Wheel of Time and he becomes increasingly harsher. His will to protect women remain the same throughout. This would of course have been different if the cast was younger like they are in the books. RJ was interested in ordinary people forced to become heroes against their will, but something supernatural forces them and the conflicts that produce.
Whats really sad about these producers is that if they actually read the books they would see it had everything they wanted anyways, women in power, diverse races, lgbtq, everything, they didnt have to ruin the series...and rereading the books
I can't help but think of all the Witcher fans complaining about that show's adaptation and how they don't realize how lucky they a re. The Witcher, although changes have been made, has been way more faithful to the source material than The Wheel of Time. I wish the WoT show writers had been half as faithful to the books as the Witcher (which, especially with the short stories, I think it much harder to weave a continuing story out of).
I might do a Witcher review. I haven't read all the books so I can only speak as a non book fan. It makes some of the same errors in not explaining things / world building in a way that makes it hard to follow the plot, esp. with complex geopolitics.
@amys0482 perhaps. I'm actually reading the Witcher books after watching the show. So having been a show first person, I didn't feel I had trouble understanding what was going on. Once u figured out the whole time jumping thing of course. Now in reading the books I'm impressed with how much seasons 1 and 3 followed the general story. Yennifer had been greatly enhanced in the show, but I thought her character was a little thin in the books so I don't mind.
@@amys0482 terrible story structure and lame dialogue. as usual it's the writing. also in the last season they sidelined the main character, probably in retribution for criticizing the show. oh and ciri found a unicorn in the desert (pukes)
I am not sure that Liandran's arc in the TV series is going to be similar to her arc in the Books. Spoilers: Specifically, I am not sure she is going to be Black Ajah like she is in the books. It seems to me that they are angling more to combine her arc with Elaida's. She is one of the main character's in the TV series at this point, rather than being a rather minor "bad guy" character. We totally skipped Caemlyn in season 1, and thus any introduction to Elaida. We have now been introduced to Elayne, again with no mention of Elaida. So - how would Elaida at this point become a thing? My guess, particularly with some of the comments made in season 1, is that Liandrin will end up deposing Suian and becoming the Amyrlin rather than Elaida, who frankly, I don't think will even appear. Sort of like the way they have been collapsing other characters into each others arc. In a related manner, they are obviously cutting down the number of Forsaken as well. (Both Aginor and Balthamel do not appear). So - perhaps the character of Selene (Lanfear) is being combined with Graendal? That might explain some of her sexual proclivities in episode 2 that would otherwise be out of character for Lanfear.
Thank goodness you're watching this for me because I found S1 to be infuriating and checked out. They've already messed up so much that I have no idea how they can fix it.
I never read the series, partly because I read A Song of Ice and Fire in the mid 2000s, and did not want to invest myself in another series that would never be finished. Of course, Sanderson actually ended up finishing WoT. I had tried reading a couple of his other books previously, but I just could not get into them. I know a lot of fans were fairly happy with his work to wrap up the story though. All of this to say, as someone who did not read the books, I enjoyed season 1, up until the last few episodes. I have enjoyed season 2 quite a bit so far, but I can sympathize with fans who love the books who are are not getting a more faithful adaptation. I also happen to have a soft spot for fantasy TV shows, so I grade them much more easily than other genres.
The series is worth reading. Rosamund Pike's narration of the new audiobooks is particularly good. Sandersons novels are my least favorite, but I am eternally grateful to him.
@@amys0482 I have never tried audio books. I prefer to imagine what different characters sound like when I am reading. I would probably be better served to hold off on reading the books until after the TV series is finished, or else I likely will not enjoy it as much.
Oh, Amy, you have read the producer interviews! Why you still deny his agenda and the visible effects that it has on the show? Anyway,, I still respect your attitude that no matter if you agree with the message that they push, valid criticism still must be made. So far, you are the only feminist person that I have seen having this attitude.
I don't know if I have read all of them. This show is not feminist to me. If anything, it undermines feminism. I did think the books were feminist, despite some flaws.
@@amys0482 I have seen multiple feminists calling out the sexism and the Patriarchy in WoT. The ideea that things must be changed to reflect today's reality. Maybe we are in disagreement about the definition of feminism in 2023.
FYI, I've read these for 30 years as well and I have just accepted (pun intended) the fact that the only enjoyment I am getting out of this hack writing is to see my favorite world brought to life on the screen I feel like I could have had this exact conversation with you in real time. I agree almost 100% with you except the fact I kinda enjoyed the Rand/Selene scenes. NOT because they were great but BECAUSE they weren't a terrible re-imagining of the source material. If I hadn't read the books, I would have liked it. I'm 50/50 on how Rand is since he is my favorite and always will be. I think he gets a pass because I like his book character so much and I feel the actor can do it justice eventually. I can see your points though and his demeanor is written poorly unless this was later in the story where he goes dark side. I won't mention Mat's utter simpness. It's just sad. The continued tossing to the side of our three main male characters and the new sitcom "The Liandrin Show : WOT inspired" is just what it is at this point. I really think Rafe just liked the idea of Jordan's IP and then hired a bunch of 3rd rate Witcher writers to redo the show in his image. The good parts is that production value has increased and I really enjoy areas and sets and characters are front and center on TV. I love Nynaeve and they are doing her justice but not from the source material. Egwene and Elayne are both solid but they doing a disservice to Moiraine. She is literally the epitome of boss bitch in the books but they make her whiny in the tv show? Color me confused. Lastly, I will keep watching just to see things I've read about brought to me in a new medium. This is just poorly written fan fiction with a big budget though. It's not even book snobbishness, you can find HUNDREDS of reviews (that aren't politically or culture based) that just don't understand why less talented writers thought they could do better than an International Best Selling author who is critically lauded throughout the genre. (At least they aren't worse than the Witchers writers though)
@@amys0482 I didn’t read the books either but it’s pretty clear to me when the story is about a Witcher who fights monsters but the show is about , anything except that…. You know? Same reason I couldn’t even get past episode 1 of the rings of power Meanwhile Shadow and Bone was well received and so were a number of Eastern fantasy adaptations
Her son can channel. I can't believe that I didn't put it together during the moment. Moiraine threatened to out her son to the other Reds. That would induce a ton of rage from someone like Liandrin.
There's zero allegiance to book canon. Do you think maybe forkroot was found early and stops channeling madness. Or maybe they've changed the way madness comes on in this turning. @@Gilescowdemdem
you said you were fine with diversity. But making character like Rand not likeable or aes sedai using sword is part of it. This has a lot more impact than chosing the cast. This is why there is so many people that spoke against it.
Force inclusion in a recluded small village like Two Rivers is absurd. They have a whole diverse world, the have the White Tower, different kingdoms, and oversea empire... C´mon!. Two Rivers becoming a Benetton advertisment is so unnecesary and incoherent...
The writers just don't understand the world of the wheel of time. For instance if an Aes Sedai was thirsty she would not filter dirty water, she would just channel water from the air around her and drink it. To be fair though, Aes Sedai do admit that a lot of weaves that are used in training are techically useless, but safe for novices to practice.
I have to assume you mean cleasing the male half (saidin) of the one power. If I remember correctly Rand and Nynaeve make use of the access keys that link with the Choedan Kal (two sa'Angreal), on a hill near Shadar Logoth. Rand then starts channeling massive amounts of saidin and Nynaeve (our greatest healer by this time) uses saidar to strip the taint from his weave into the ruins of Shadar Logoth. The evil in Shadar Logoth then starts distroying the taint. By the time its finished, both the taint and the ruins are gone leaving a massive hole/crater where the city once stood. Ha I think I see what you did there, Nynaeve learnt/knows how too strip fowlness off of something pure! @@cairhieningent
He did “do be” once at the beginning to silence book readers who would complain about this…only to convert over to a strange Scottish dialect for the rest of his lines and not talk like an Illianer anymore.
I feel like they made a big mistake with Perrin's fridge-wife. He killed her with an axe. How would he take up the axe after that? How can they include his arc if they can't give him an axe? The first episode completely messed up his character.
yet again fair and balanced review. I feel stuck between idiotic bookcloacks and what im now calling idiotic showcloacks who think nothing is wrong like we are in a scene from children of the corn. your a breath of fresh air
Amy, New Spring spoilers: Lan’s lover wanted to force Lan to marry her daughter and then his lover was planning to murder him and leverage a type of Regency of Malkier in exile for her pregnant daughter… it was in New Spring. But what was also in New Spring is her daughter was murdered by the Black Ajah, and she retired from the world as a broken woman.
I agreed with your overview completely, but I felt like you skipped too quickly over the unexplained inconsistencies in the time skip except Moiraine lying about Rand. How did Loial recover from being stabbed pretty badly by the Ruby Hilted Dagger? Why does no one care Eg healed Nyn from whatever she healed her from? They left S1 on a bunch of cliff hangers and then started S2 with everybody off the cliff and nobody seems to remember they were ever on it.
While it's necessary to change and adjust a story for a TV, some of the choices made are confusing and I feel that someone who wasn't familiar with the books could struggle to follow the story and relate to the characters in their journey.
Whether you like it or not, we know for a fact that politics entered into this, since Rafe Judkins himself said so: "I'm a feminist and it's very important to me that the show is feminist in today's context". Feminist - in today's context. Crystal clear. If that's not a political agenda, then I honestly don't know what is. But apart from that, I agree with a lot of your points of course. I stopped watching this sham of a show after season 1 episode 4 (I really tried to give it a chance until then, but it quickly became unbearable to watch), but I do listen with great pleasure to your analysis. Thank you very much!
@@amys0482 I wholly agree with that! I always found Wheel of Time to be quite feminist in its own right, and the way female characters seem to be depicted in the show is really not flattering.
I thought Morraine carried the water because she wanted to maintain her status and take baths but didn't want to ask anyone else to do her work for her, especially Lan who she wants to keep at bay right now. Also the scene with the bath and her trying to use her powers is reminescent of the scene in season 1 where she takes a bath with Lan and has the power to heat up the water, a reminder of what she lost for the audience.
I didn't mind the part where she was alone in the bath unable to heat the water. I just don't understand why she is hauling water when the dragon has been reborn and the fate of the world is balanced on the edge of a knife. Even without the One Power, she is a noble woman. Pushing Lan away doesn't make sense.
@@amys0482 Yes I also didn't understand why she was pushing Lan away, given the importance of her mission, but I guess she doesn't want him to die... he was supposed to be the warder to an Aes Sedai who had powers herself, not give his life for one who couldn't contribute anything to the fight.
@@danmusiceasy Problem is, if she pushing Lan aside, Lan will die. He will travel to the Blight and put the end to the last of the Malkier. Canonical Lan, at least.
Dan Flute - Except in the books Moiraine would get the others to do her menial work for her, it was kind of a running joke for a while. But of course this adaptation being "feminist" they have to show poor Moiraine being forced to carry her own water up a steep hill ! As if she hasn't enough to weigh her down as it is what with being disempowered by a male fascist oppressor ! As for the second bath scene it shouldn't have been in the show. It's just another example of the "writers" making up things that don't matter to put into their "adaptation" while they leave things from the books that do matter out of their "adaptation". Like the first bath scene in season one for example, it was completely unnecessary. It was only dropped in as an expression of Rafe Judkins "free wheeling" sexual beliefs. The bath scene they should have had was in Fal Dara where the custom was for the sexes to bathe together which freaked out the prudish Emond's Fielders no end. That was part of the humour that Robert Jordan liberally sprinkled his WoT books with. And humour is something that these "writers" have omitted entirely from their woeful adaptation. Because I guess who needs humour when you can replace it with propaganda.
The only good that came out of the show is that it got me reading the books again. I stopped around book 9 due to waiting for the next book to be released and I decided to wait until the series was finished before continuing. The show got me reading from book 1 again. Currently, I am on book 12 and can really appreciate the books being able to read the whole thing at once.
Me too. I fogot how good they were. It's tough to go from books to show.
Don’t give up in the slowdown books. As the last book, not written by the official writer (luckily) is very good. Good enough to fix the wrongs of the previous 2.5 books
The last book was very hard for me because while waiting for it I reread the series and figured out the ending… at least what I thought the ending should be, and needless to say the ending was very different and it was very upsetting to me how it was ended.
@@jsbrads1how was the ending different than what you expected? Jordan wrote the outline and even some of the text for the ending. And I thought the foreshadowing did pretty much predict a lot of it.
Oh and make sure to add spoiler space if you answer this. Some on this thread haven't finished it.
@@kirielbranson4843 I believe I came up with a better ending for both the Aiel and the Tree of Life, I tied up more loose ends.
One other thing that bugs me: I was re-reading The Great Hunt and realized another thing missing in the Rand story in the TV series. We've already skipped the relationship w/ Lan and the impact that had on Rand ("Elayne taught me how to rule, you taught me how to stand."). But in TGH, Rand first learns how to be a leader. When he Hurin and Loial get split, Rand has to figure out how to lead that small group. Where is Rand learning that here?
Rand isn't learning anything, obviously.
But that doesn't matter in a way. The writers just have people accomplish things when their plans for the story call for it.
Who even knows if he will lead in this travesty of a story. They could solve that with Lews Therrin's memories but I don't expect this show to do anything logical.
@@amys0482 I'm still waiting to find out Moiraine is actually the Dragon Reborn...
Not that I'm actually watching this train wreck...I just watch reviews from folks like you who have chosen to take one for the team, as it were. Your sacrifice is appreciated.
This is so true. That is my biggest criticism for the show. They keep side-lining the protagonist and diminishing significant moments and accomplishments in his story. He is meant to be a much better sword fighter at this point by training in the forms regularly for months with Lan then with Ingtar as they hunt the horn.
They already destroyed his growth in the first book. he is meant to have skills and knowledge from the time spent with Thom that he uses in future books. Like paying the flute. This comes back over and over again. Also him running away and letting Thom ''die'' affects his decisions and refusing to let other die for him in other books.
This isn't the wheel of time. This is a modern fantasy series written by Rafe Judkins with a few themes stolen from Robert Jordan. For example. Rafe Judkins writes JK Rowlins Harry Potter as a television series. Heromine Grainger and her friends Parvarti Patil and Moaning Mertel, after graduating from high school enroll at a wizarding university. There they meet an opposing group of guys, Harry Potter the spoiled rich kid who thinks he is the chosen one, his friend Draco Malfoy who being from a poor upbringing lives in Harry's shadow and is the moral voice that keeps Harry's ego in check, and Neville Longbottom who recently lost his wife to a night bus accident. The angry and malicious grounds keeper, Hagrid constantly makes the boys go on dangerous quests in the forbidden forest, and they only succeed because of the help of the quirky, goofy and loveable Severous Snape, their potions professor. Most of the series focuses on the girls sexual exploits and Hermonie's sports prowess as the captain of the university quittage team.
The funny thing about his approach is how hamfisted he is at interpreting the themes.
Example: one big thing across the series is how the current problems facing the characters during the run of the series, originated because men and women couldn't work together. The Taint on Saidin results after men run off on their own to fight a necessary fight without women who have all agreed not to join them.
The Taint is a great metaphor for toxic masculinity and men and women solve it together.
All of which is reinterpreted by Judkins as: men = arrogant and they endangered the world for no reason.
He arguably isn't even using the themes or is using a very basic and often unintentionally subverted understanding of them.
The whole production process of the series is a tragedy.
OMG. You nailed it!
Outstanding analogue story, ameliamccombs4313! I have attempted to do what you just did twice; and I never landed it nearly as competently as what you just did.
Antelope, I don’t think there’s anything unintentional about rafe’s subverting of the themes in this story.
He comes off as someone who despises the themes and the story on a deep level and sympathizes with the dark one and co.
If you watch this show with the understanding that it is one of the visions of the way the world would be if the dark one won TLB it will make much more sense.
@@theabhorrentchef7226 Maybe, but then the whole 'hero' aspect that has for so long been a part of humanities cultural self reflection is being denied in every aspect - due to the fact that 'hero's' are not usually paragons of virtue but because they have done something heroic, so can be 'cast down' because they were not a paragon.
I think Amy, in her review of series 1, stated that the equality inherent in the story was cast aside for the 'toxic masculine'/'feminine good' twist - in that series they do openly state that the male use of the power utilised the more aggressive elements of the power, which is just a reflection of reality rather than the theme of the world they are in. Males are, generally, more physically aggressive than females. Females are more verbally aggressive, perhaps, 100% speculation, that is why cancel culture has come about - reputation damage is more prevalent now than it used to be due to the equality of the sexes,
The whole Nynaeave wielding a sword.... It seems pretty clear to me that Judkins really likes to bring to life these elseworld-esque visions of things that never happened in the books.
The whole Perrin wife thing originated because of a a very minor character that Perrin offhandedly remembers he once had a crush on when he runs into her in Book 4, with the larger context being how that theoretical relationship wouldn't have worked.
Similarly, Nynaeve wielding a sword seems an outgrowth of a comment she made in Book 2, Chapter 18
-----
// The Amyrlin barked a laugh. “They told me you had a temper in you like a fisher-bird with a bone in its throat. Some of them, child, say you’d do well for some time as a novice, no matter how old you are. I say, if you have the ability I hear of, you deserve to be one of the Accepted.” She gave another laugh. “I always believe in giving people what they deserve. Yes. I suspect you will learn a great deal once you reach the White Tower.”
//
// *“I’d rather one of the Warders taught me how to use a sword,”* Nynaeve growled.
//
// “A sword?” the Amyrlin said. “I never thought swords were much use-even if you have the skill, child, there are always men who have as much, and a deal more strength-but if you want a sword. . . .”
So this comment she makes results in her getting a lesson in the One Power and how much more useful it is than simple swordsmanship.
In the TV show, it's a vehicle for Judkins to show some titillating sword action where she kicks more ass without any training required. And for them to so blithely/casually mention female warders even though the two halves of the Power make that rather problematic.
But I guess if they're going to change the way the magic system works and the characters are getting overhauled into people that they weren't before, what difference does it make?
The scene you brought up is in comparison to the Liandrin scene but the the Nynaeve sparing scene is most likely Mat's 2v1...
Holy shit you're right! @@krissaunders6418
@@99althor unfortunately 😕
@@krissaunders6418Rafe did say, in response to a fan question about Mat’s famous quarterstaff scene with Galad and Gawyn that fans have been looking forward to seeing, that there would be a ‘more believable’ version in the show.
I don’t see how anyone could possibly think giving a 2v1 sword fight to Nynaeve is either more believable (why would she be a better fighter than Mat?) or an adequate representation of Mat’s achievement.
I guess we’ll find out for sure in the next few episodes whether that was it, or not. If that was the replacement, I think even more book fans will turn on the show.
@@ThumbMerrilin one could say one person being taught how to use a sword by 2 people and doing well is a more realistic version.
Also winning a 2v1 because you have reach and luck is very realistic.
Thank you for sharing your takes on WoT series; I really enjoyed and benefitted from your less culture war-ish takes on it. They are thought-provoking and challenging in the best ways.
My basic analysis of this series is that if you haven't read the books, you cannot possibly understand what's going on, or what the real stakes are, and if you *have* read the books, you probably hate large chunks of what the current showrunners are doing because it is an unfaithful adaptation. I don't mind an unfaithful adaptation if it is well-executed and has something interesting to say. This adaptation does not appear to have either quality.
They seem to be trying to do a lot of things, and doing all of them poorly. Rather than telling a cohesive, character-driven story, they are creating a hodge-podge of tropes and beats from other ways of telling stories without the skill to fit them together.
1) They seem to be writing in a sort of show-don't-tell style, like a Hemingway-iceberg style where nine tenths of what's going on is below the surface, and we only see the small bits and have to decipher the rest. This is a technique that works well in other cases (the one that leaps to mind for me is The Way of the Gun, a movie that I'm sure did not inspire these showrunners in the least, but shows a successful use of that kind of style). However, here, it makes things feel kinda like a whodunit, and worse like a whatsgoingon.
2) Taking people like Nyneave, a very strong female character, and putting her into male roles (like swordfighter) and making her seem action-hero-y. This is a trope from a lot of more recent fare, but I generally think it suffers from trying to transform the woman into a man, and when it does, the results tend to be flattening and boring. Women can obviously have great action scenes and be badass warriors, but Nyneave isn't. To me, at least, she would think that men waving swords around as a means to settle arguments is one of their least endearing qualities (even if she did enjoy watching them practice), but even if it were in character, it doesn't make sense that she does as well as she does against trained warriors. The scene is executed so poorly here that it's both not believable *and* not in character.
3) They want to have their "good and evil" be less black and white, like most successful adult TV series of late (among them, GoT, Breaking Bad, etc.). They are trying to be morally ambiguous, which is a very common contemporary theme, in a story that has both a very distinct idea of good and evil (the light and the shadow) as well as the much more ambiguous human "evil" of class and gender conflict, political manipulation, abusive behavior, etc. The only "real" evil in the show is first, Shadar Logoth, and second, Child Byar and the Children of the Light. One is amorphous and not at all personified, so abstract that it seems more a force than a true evil of intent, and the other is utterly human cruelty.
4) The show wants its characters to have a traumatic background. It thinks, for some bizarre reason, that suffering emotional trauma (no matter how pointless) makes characters somehow more interesting. Egwene shoved off a cliff to become a woman (that felt like a very male look at a coming of age ritual; in my experience, women as a group rarely decide to engage in pointlessly risky, life-threatening rituals; that sort of seemingly pointless physical risk-taking strikes me as much more male). Perrin killing his wife by accident (as far as I can tell, the only reason they gave him a wife was to kill her). Matt having an alcoholic mother an nasty philanderer father. It's like they were embarrassed of the idyllic village life that the books imagine for their heroes, like they had a point of view that even villages like that only *seem* idyllic. If that was the point, okay, but it was done without any real regard to their character or what the central conflicts of the immediately proceeding aspects of the story would be (the very sheltered, very conservative children going into a world which did not share their values and which was far more dangerous than they could imagine). The whole thing stinks of focusing on one "unreality" of which the show is embarrassed in the book (the idyllic village) and wanting to subvert that, but doing so in a ham-handed way that has immense impacts on the downstream parts of the story. In short, it's all poorly executed.
5) They want to diversify the people, so that they don't appear so uniformly white. I get this, but again, it's executed poorly. If you want to have, say, black or asian or native american or any other non-white set of main characters, I'm fine with that. I like that kind of subversion even. But it *has to make sense*. Why the heck would you have all these dramatically mixed races within a tiny hamlet village that's been geographically isolated for hundreds of years? If you want to do this kind of subversion, make the whole place Kenyan or Brazilian or Mongolian or something; they don't need to look identical, but they do all need to look like they are interrelated. Make the *place* make sense. Otherwise, that kind of huge variation does two things: 1) it muddies the fact that Rand is actually an outsider, and 2) it makes the entire place feel weirdly incoherent, like it's some bustling town at the nexus of trade routes between several distinct nations, rather than a backwater.
My overall impression is that the show is embarrassed of the book's values. It's embarrassed by its classical fantasy epic tone and conflicts (good versus evil, for example). It's embarrassed of heroism in general, and especially of male heroism. It's embarrassed of the romantic ideal of the innocent country backwater. It's embarrassed of the fact that most fantasy tends to have white protagonists. It's embarrassed of the story's fairly stiffly-defined gender traits and gender roles (while at the same time seeming to be unaware of the fairly radically egalitarian vision the novel has of the genders). It's embarrassed of the Two Rivers folk's very conservative attitudes towards sex. It's being rewritten to obscure or modify the things that embarrass it, and doing so in ham-handed and incompetent ways that destroy everything that made the original story compelling by people who either care more about what's embarrassing than they do about compelling and coherent characters, or are too poorly-skilled at what they do to execute the changes in tone and character without wrecking the characters and story.
It's like an epic fantasy story that's embarrassed of being a fairly normal to the genre epic fantasy story, so it's trying to make itself a less embarrassing version of itself, and succeeding only in creating a chaos of tropes and ideas that it fails to weave together, at least so far.
All of this is spot-on to me!
Well said, spot on.
You couldn't be more right! An amazing, well thought, well written critique that encapsulates all that is so very wrong with the show.
"I was initially excited"
Yup
Always appreciate your reviews. You picked on a lot of things I didn’t think about. I was just happy the show wasn’t a complete disaster like last season.
I was also really upset about Lan losing almost every fight. I don’t see how he’s going to be useful if he can’t take on some fades. He’s supposed to be one of the 10 best swordsmen in the world. Maybe it’s the weakened warded bond? I also agree that he’s way too sensitive. He has a sensitivity that shows over time, not always gushy
Yeah, it's super frustrating. Lan without a bond should still be deadly in hand to hand, and it was explained in the books that 1v1ing a Fade was entirely possible for a skilled human fighter (though armed, as D&D Monks aren't a thing in WOT).
Love your reviews, by far the most balanced and honest I've watched. Only thing I would point out is the story of Lan's carneira, the older woman being his first lover is not made up, but is a minor plot point in New Spring(RJ's prequel for those who don't know).
I generally agree with your assessment of Lan/Moiraine outside of that lol.
I've been corrected
hey Amy, great to see your review again - I watched your reviews back in S1 and had very similar feelings. I almost didn't want to watch S2 but I guess I couldn't help myself. my older brother who introduced me to Robert Jordan recently passed and I just felt like wanting to see this world again for his sake. To be fair, S2 seems slightly better but I'm stunned honestly how anyone who hasn't read the books even knows WTH is going on with literally no introduction of characters or backstory. I'm invested so far I guess but like you, I have low expectations lol
My condolences to you; he had good taste.
I am sorry for your loss. WOT is emotionally significant to me too.
This show seems disrespectful of Robert Jordan’s work.
Artistic license and production constrains are not reasons to produce hot garbage.
// This show seems disrespectful of Robert Jordan's work.
I mean, yeah.... Late to the party here? :P
Rafe is a darkfriend
Racism is on life support, kept alive with things like tokenism, forced inclusion, low expectations, MSM & “entertainment” psyop bs.
Every aspect of this show is horrendous
Unfortunately, yes. And to feminism imho.
It’s not disrespectful, it’s a full on raping and pillaging of Robert Jordan’s incredible story and legacy
I think it's great how the books were so well written, with more or less of a message that even though there can be a great hero, everyone is important. Saddly, here, there's no such hero. Rand is given the barest minimum of action and relevance, even though there is no more secrecy or suspence anymore about him being the Dragon Reborn. The boys are let to the side to not bring shadow to the girls, and the girls do not even get to have great character arcs. A lot of the improvements actually cheapen the characters even more than their actual arcs. Moiraine learnt humility and honesty in a great way in the books, furthering her relationship with Rand, instead of being stilled and playing housemaid. Nyneave has actual reasons to act angry and to despise Aes Sedai, instead of just acting sulky. Even though there is a moment in the books where Egwene disagrees with Nyneave taking the lead like she's still the wisdom of their village, she never act jealous about being less powerful than Nyneave.
I still think it was a bad idea to not have the different nations have their own distinctive look, in costume as in hairstyling and ethnicity. The people travel in the map, and I feel like distance barely shows, and that the funny culture shocks cannot be done anymore.
What are the odds that Nyneave turns out to be the Dragon Reborn? The reveal of Rand being the Dragon Reborn was so brief that they could retcon it.
@@alexr6092 They should just do it quickly -- don't use any half measures. Make your decision and ride that rocket to the bitter end.
It was super refreshing watching shadow and bone when they portrayed a nation of people as a distinct ethnicity! The Shu people had this neat chinese aesthetic that enhanced immersion rather nicely.
@@gilian2587 And then let everyone forget this show ever existed and let someone else have the chance to re-adapt it better!
@@clevermax7710 Precisely.
Appreciate your initial thoughts, Amy. I agree on most of them. It's a shame that the show, and supporting or criticising it, has become politicised in the culture wars and this has clouded frank and respectful discussion and criticism of it. Which I find strange because I still don't find the show to be a particularly authentic or effective vehicle for progressive messages - if that is the intent of the writers, I don't think it's working.
I really struggle to come up with many positive things to say about season 2. The production quality has improved as you noted, they've found a lot more extras to make places like the Tower feel more lived in and populated, and the CGI for the Power looks better (still not the intricate weaves described in the books, but better looking than the single coloured streams in season 1).
As to negatives, your video covers most of mine very well so I won't waste too much more space on them here. I just want to reiterate your point about the show not seeming to respect or understand its male characters, especially Rand, Mat and Perrin. Even in the few scenes they are in, things just happen to them, and other characters make choices for them and talk at them, rather than them making deliberate choices, proactively taking actions and holding their own in conversations as main characters are meant to do. Will it improve? We'll see, but I'm not optimistic about it.
Also, sorry to hear about your cat, and I hope the other one is doing OK.
So, you have a ready-made winner with an established fanbase that has been around for three decades. Why would you diverge from the themes, characters, and plots in a huge way, if it WASN'T about ideology? The reason it doesn't come off as authentic or effective, is that they suck at writing, and their ideology does not even remotely fit Jordan's world, or ours for that matter.
55:20 this is mention in 1e04 when Nynaeve catches Lan praying and she says a prayer that were the last words her father told her before they got overrun by brigands. So presumably this is exactly the scene as she remembered it.
Thanks for taking the time to make videos about this show.
Would love to hear your opinion of the seanchan costuming, I can't get over the damane sucking on soothers, without wearing collars.
I think they wanted it more visual and less encumbering for the actors than leashes but it's one of those changes that isn't really necessary. I do think the costumes are striking, despite being inaccurate
So good at what you do Amy, love your break downs. S1 already revealed Rafe to be a casual WoT fan at best, and S2 just drives it home. I came in expecting absolutely nothing to be the same so I was actually pleasantly surprised to see some easter eggs of faithful moments…which is so sad when you think about it. Our beloved story has been reduced to “easter egg” moments within a total reimagining of far less quality. The show is so reductive in so many ways, it’s sickening when you stop to think about it. I was actually a little high on the improvement to production, but then I watched this and realized I had just lowered my expectations so much that i mind jobbed myself into acquiescence. Thx for fighting the good fight on our behalf!
The production quality is better and it's kind of enjoyable for the glimpses of wheel of time. And the acting. But it is very frustrating as an adaptation.
@@amys0482 I admit that I tend to think of the show as more of a hatchet job of the Wheel of Time than an adaptation.
@@amys0482 I noticed that they no longer refer to it as an "adaptation", but rather, as "based on" Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. At least they are being more honest about it.
It's the same with the Witcher, Rings of Power, etc. The producers THINK they're making something for a bigger audience, but in doing so (badly), they abandon the built-in audience that drives the hype-train. I know plenty of people that ENJOYED the Star Wars Disney trilogy... but they're not buying the books, action figures, toys, clothing, etc. The same for the recent series of Game of Thrones wannabes - they'll enjoy the spectacle, but don't really care or connect with it, and aren't obsessed with every aspect of it the way a core fan(atic) is. The original material is almost universally better.
What do I think is the lesson for producers? When you find yourself saying "we can improve on this," ask yourself if you're a better writer than the original author. Ask yourself if you could have written the massive best-sellers these properties are based on. If the answer is no, then take a humble pill and let the authors speak for themselves. Do the best you can to translate the work without transforming it entirely.
How did Liandrin Know that Mat would attempt to escape thru the wall into that specific cell where Min was? This season already has some weird loopholes as well as not explaining or changing errors made in the last season. It's like the writers have no editors or at least anyone with reasoning skills. Also it needs to be said that when one writes for a character of the opposite gender, consideration should be made to ask,"Is this something this character would do or a man or woman would do or say?"
Yes. I haven't read the books but I got so confused by everything that I started discussing it with Chatgpt. That got me intrigued though and now I am reading the books which only makes me more frustrated with the show. Yay.
Thank you so much for the work that you do. I had given up on this "adaption" after the 3rd episode of season 1. However, I have SO enjoyed your analysis and insight for S1, and am extremely excited to see your posts re S2,, so please keep them up, they are great.
✌️ a fellow book lover 🇦🇺
The canon #1 trait of all followers of the Dark One, explicitly stated in the books, is selfishness. But Rafe seems to be obsessed with making the Dark One the good guy, to the point where he made the sealing of the bore a preemptive, unprovoked first strike by Lews Therin.
Rafe prolly has Daniel Larusso was the true bad guy in Karate Kid on loop at his house.
Yeah, this is where "Rafe is a darkfriend" seems credible.
Thanks for another fascinating video. You really manage to put my confused feelings about the programme into words whilst keeping a measured and resonable outlook.
Another Elayne fan, hooray! I didn't (couldn't?) appreciate her when I read the books as a teenager, but as an adult she's a clear favourite (apart from most of Winter's Heart til Towers of Midnight anyway).
Hi Amy - so happy to see your review! I've been waiting for your take since I heard S2 dropped. Based on what I've heard so far, it wasn't likely I'd jump back in but after hearing your take I definitely will not. In some ways, I feel relieved that this show has deviated so far it is no longer recognizable. I won't need to get get my brain into a twist trying to reconcile this thing with the books. Lots of mental energy saved. I might have been interested in binging it after the show airs completely but hearing that the writing has not improved I will not be wasting any time on this show at all. Regarding the curious character changes (ie Selene and Lliandin) I wonder if it is because they are merging several characters together on the show versions. For example, I've heard a theory that Lliandrin maybe an amalgam of Alviarin and/or Galina. Selene maybe merged with Semirhage (possibly Graendal as well) since her place with the Seanchan appears to have been taken (from the trailers I've seen) by Ishmael. i have no idea what they're doing with the 3 boys at all based on these reviews. It's mind boggling that they spend so much time on developing secondary characters while shunting the main characters to the background and simultaneously making them as unlikable as possible. It all sounds a bit like an anthology with character vignettes and no overarching storyline. It all seems so pointless. If the dragon reborn isn't the focus then what is the point of this story? Is there a story?
This is a great point...they have combined so many characters into one, okay fine, because of the need to condense the story to fit within the confines of an episodic series. But why introduce new, made up characters and story lines not directly related to the story? They spent an entire episode on a warder that never existed (and what they have done to Lan upsets me greatly)! Meanwhile, Thom gets barely a head nod and they have seemingly ruined the 3 ta'veren at a fundamental level (Mat not going into the ways and abandoning his friends, Perrin and the frigged wife, and Rand sleeping with Selene...sigh. All unnecessary.) And the whole Min/Mat plot, Liandrin's personal story line? I just can't watch this show.
@@katakayogi5033 More and more I get the impression that Thom in the first season was a cameo - a nod (and not a particularly good one) to the fans, and that he will not be back. What after all, at this point, would be the point?
@@darkstar7999Garrett Bryne will not be a part of it either. Because lesbians!!
@@nathanmorgan3647 My first thought upon watching that episode. However, I don't expect to see him anyway/ What is he? A great captain? Heck, we don't need no stinkin great captains! Obvious too, from season 1. The girls can handle anything and everything. Maybe they will just put Aviendha in charge of the armies.
Thanks Amy, I look forward to and will continue to watch your reviews, but I will pass on the show. As a book fan I wanted to see Jordans story brought to life, not the travesty that was put to screen from season one and what you describe for season 2. It truly saddens me what has been done to my favorite story.
I like that you have cats. I have just lost my soul mate so I’m glad you could get one/or more to fill the void
Never thought about the meaning of a “round table”, good catch.
I took Moiraine’s manual labor to be, they’re in a remote area and have no servants. They probably mirrored her catching fish with Perrin.
Moiraine and Lan’s interaction is horrid. I didn’t like her threat about, passing his bond. Bonds shouldn’t exist for stilled. Just like the 3 oaths go away. Also if she is stilled, her oath of exile goes away. Moiraine is the greatest Aes Sedai in the whole series and they really are bringing down her character.
The aes Sedai hitting on Lan I did not like. They books mention how rude it is to command or mess with another Aes Sedai’s Warder. It may not be law but it’s “custom” as they say.
Yeah, she told Lan last season, “he’s gone”. Lan took that as dead. But very true, it’s all about Tarmon Gai’don. Moiraine doesn’t let Rand get away, “what the dark one wants I oppose”, “I’ll kill you before letting the dark one have you”.
Mat, is getting better. I said last season the actor didn’t have Mat energy. This one seems to be headed in the right direction even if they aren’t letting him be book Mat.
Nyneave’s storyline continues to be terrible.
Egwene’s still the threatening people🤦🏻♂️.
Also THEY’RE NOVICES!!! They should be so busy they don’t have time to sword fight, they shouldn’t speak to Aes Sedai unless first addressed. But they’re running around giggling and doing whatever. And get that waist belt off Nyneave. This is like boot camp and she’s like I’m gonna wear what I want.
Who’s delivering Perrin’s letters? That’s the real question.
I think they’re hitting the beats of the book for the book fans. “They’re going after the horn” okay bake to the girls. Rand’s ran off on his own, okay back to the girls. Look it’s Bayle Doman; okay back to the girls. See we still have mat, okay back to the girls.
Yes Lan is way too emotive in the show.
Elyas is fine, though he did feel like just another “beat”, like Thom. It was like, see we showed Elyas, okay back to the girls.
Liandren, I’m so confused with the direction, but the actor is killing it. Story wise I don’t like it, acting wise she’s great.
Rand sleeping with Selene, the show should end there. That’s the end of the world, Tarmon Gai’don is lost. Yeah his actions in this season so far he should be considered already lost. The Dark One already owns him.
At first I thought the change of Perrin seeing the fly scene with his wolf senses made sense but the lord I think about it I just don’t know.
Okay I’m tired lol
Thanks Amy, I'm always so happy when you drop new videos!!!
Hey, so I have been watching your channel since the first season came out because I like to get different viewpoints on the show and from people with different backgrounds and opinions. I don’t know if your other viewers would agree or not, but honestly, I think I would like to get your in-depth take on the books themselves! Like a re-read and walk through section by section of each book, even on a weekly basis, where you divide each book into sections, and go through it! I love rereading these pugs, and I like watching channels that go through each of the books in detail, and talk about it. Kind of like a watch party, but for books! Is that something you would ever consider or would be fun for you?
It would be fun if I had time for it. I am fighting my own quality bar, where to really do it justice I would have to write essays on each book, then film and edit, which is very time consuming. Maybe I could answer fan questions or something, which would be easier.
I will say regarding your discussion about Tarwin’s Gap, it wasn’t a routine trolloc raid, it was actually a big deal (granted definitely not the Last Battle or Horne of Valere big) and Agelmar was very worried about it, they were on the brink of being destroyed at the Gap until Rand skimmed there from the Eye.
Right. And they took that moment from Rand. But what they showed us in the TV show didn't look that bad. There was a gigantic wall and tiny defendable gates. The whole set up was confusing.
Great to have you back covering the WoT, Amy. Interested in your thoughts on how much the failure of Season 1 has created an unrecoverable story.
Logain's Talent wasn't seeing men who could channel, but can see Ta'Veren and Rand glowed brighter than any other genre ever saw. Also as Logain was from Ghealdan, desiring a Ghealdanin Red for a taste of home makes sense.
Correct on Logain’s Talent. The whole fetch quest and the concept that Logain and Rand would be here is just bonkers though.
I have been corrected. The show confused me.
@@Mahalleinir Particularly since in the books, the Aes Sedai never let Logain out of their sight. They were trying to keep him alive, because gentling a man makes him suicidal. Haven't seen anything here yet that makes Logain look suicidal (just insane), and the Aes Sedai seem to have just cast him off.
I just hated Season 1 and can't even be bothered to watch Season 2. I do really enjoy that you gave honest feed back without minimizing the shitty parts of tv show like other youtubers seem to be doing. The showrunner really seems to hate men or wants to minimize the men's role in this show to the point that I honestly thought they were going to be like Egwene is the Dragon Reborn in the last episode of Season 1. Like they can't even be true to the books where Perrin is wielding an axe for his conflict with axe and hammer later. It seems like such a small detail that would cost them 0 production cost to add but they can't even be true in the small things.
Definitely need to dig into the messaging more when we get more of this show
I guess at this point it would be hard for Perrin to be seen using an axe - since he used one to kill his wife. Another downstream problem caused by the decision to have him married and kill his wife (with an axe) in season 1.
I thought to give season 2 a chance and started to watch it, but couldn't get past 15 minutes of the first episode.
So I am grateful for your insightful recaps of those episodes. Allows me to know what the story being told is without having to go through the cringe of the actual show.
As well it shows that having writers with experience and knowledge is a requirement for a story that draws on so many cultural as well as historical themes and complex motivations.
// I thought to give season 2 a chance....
I honestly couldn't after Episode 1. Too much writing on the wall that they had no clue what they were doing in some ways, combined with a shit ton of changes coming from a place that's clearly dismissive and disrespectful of the source material.
@@FeebleAntelope I'm with you on that - didn't bother with season 2. If I buy a tin of beans, I expect beans inside the tin, not mushroom soup.
I struggled on through episode 3. And I really had to struggle. I really wanted to see Aviendha - but I can't. I simply can't. Probably a good thing. She has probably been desecrated as well.
I can't bring myself to watch the new season, even as a hate watch. I still wanted to hear how much worse they butchered everything, so I appreciate how deeply you go into the differences and story problems they create.
IIRC Lord Agelmar's sister, the one trained in the tower, was asked by Moiraine to send a warning to look out for Matrim Cauthon. She asked to whom she should send the message and Moiraine replied, "the Red Ajah". As Liandrin is the only Red Sister we've been introduced to thus far, she obviously captured and imprisoned him in an effort to discover Moiraine's secrets. I think this is the same reason Min Farshaw was imprisoned in the cell next door.
Which makes Moiraine look like a fool. Sending a DR candidate, and a definite Ta'veren, into the arms of her ideological and political enemies in the Tower (the Reds were diametrically opposed to the Blues). It makes literally zero sense.
I did forget about this, but since it has been two years, it could have been in a recap or dropped in some other way. I also think it's just dumb. This plan is overly convoluted. How did Liandrin know that Mat would dig through the wall?
@@amys0482 Perhaps Min didn't hide the hole in the wall as well as Mat did, and Liandrin found out. Then co-opted Min's cooperation, knowing that at some point Mat would leave, and likely take Min with him? Who knows? Min in this series, like all the other characters, isn't very likable, (or loyal). I think they are trying to play up a Mat/Min hookup here, with Min waiting to betray him in the end.
It’s so refreshing to hear an honest critique of the TV series from a book reader that isn’t focused on skin color, gender and today’s culture wars , though some commentary of that may be unavoidable.
The problem with the series isn’t its perceived “wokeness “, it’s the butchering of a great story ( a book series with a large and dedicated fan base), it’s history and lore by less talented storytellers who seem to think that they are better writers than the well respected author of a popular and highly acclaimed fantasy book series!
All these issues you mentioned are direct results of the "wokeness" they want to push. Without that driving factor they wouldnt add these terrible changes
Totally agree. I said as much multiple times. They took a world and it's IP and then made fan fiction that IS NOWHERE NEAR as good as the original. I've watched dozens of "adaptations" that are smart enough to say "based on the world of..." However, them constantly saying its using the source material is like reading a reddit user's rewrite of Pride and Prejudice.
I am sorry to hear about your kitty that passed away; and I hope that the situation with Fritz is not as dire as you fear.
Spoilers for later in the series: The Arches did malfunction when Egwene entered, but she brought a dream terangreal into the room. It made it hard for the Aes Sedai to maintain the function of the Arches, but they held on until Egwene exited and there wasn’t hours and telling friends she was dead.
It seems this show is being created by people who like to kill off people and constantly bring them back to life, I’m tired of how often it is being used.
I liked Nyneave's accepted test in the show but not how the ter'angreal totally shuts down. If they had just had the sisters waiting a LONG time and discussing in distress that she might not come out, that would have been better than Nyneave just opening the arches on her own from the inside. This show doesn't care about the magic system though
@@amys0482 I thought it was Egwene’s dabbling that jumped the arches.
@@jsbrads1 To me the show implied it was nynaeve's channeling that brought it about. By the time the arch reappeared Egwene had already given up and was sleeping.
with any changes that may or may happen ,most of them could only happen in the editors room unless extensive reshoots were done and weren't covered in the appropriate news, since they finished filming the 2nd season about a month after they released season 1 aka they'd already done 6 -8 months of shooting already. And as far as i know they're filming season 3 currently, aka due to finish filming next month, so just as season 2 ends showing they'll be ending filming so can again only make changes through reshoots or in the editing room
Wasn't logains Talent , the ability to see Ta'veren ?
oof. I think you are right about Logain. I remembered it was his Talent that made him see Rand glow and the show confused me with its nonsense.
33:11 - Yes. In the book, they specifically wonder, "What could do that to a Fade?"
Raginor and his writers have no idea what they're doing...
I press pause quite a bit during these episodes so that the actors names, and their character names pop up at the bottom of the screen. This helps immediately knowing who is who.
Seanchan scenes needed a lot more extras. Why would Suroth have been in a middle of nowhere dump town with like 30 soldiers...
They don't have extras to portray plausibly large expeditionary force and they don't have VFX artists to create CGI ones. Because it's a major TV series, lest we forget.
@@TheNightrider88 Jeff bezos getting cheap on us yo
As usual, another great, informative review. I was hoping I would find your review, and am happy.
Thanks for calling out Rand beating a dude up to a pulp only to take his job. Even the darkest version of later books Rand would never do such a thing.
Seriously. Rand gets physically and emotionally abused and has a lot of tense stress responses that causes him to treat people with increasing callousness as a leader, but he never does anything like this, even at his worst.
Complete charachter assination. Akin to Nynaeva taking up a sword, and Perrin also taking up a sword. WTF
probably should just had you write the adaptation
Thank you for your recap and review. Season one hurt alot and i won't support this show so im not watching season 2 but i will absolutely watch reviewers recap it for the comedy of both book and non-book readers being utterly bewildered by the writing 😂
Keep up the good work 👍
I know it seems like there was nearly 2 years for the producers to consider "corrections", but they have already filmed much of season 2 before season 1 was finished being published on Amazon. So most of their problems were continued and exacerbated.
The Liandrin/elderly-son subplot did drive home the point about the slow aging of Aes Sedai. But it does seem to raise at least a few questions about warders, who I assume age at normal rates. I would think that in the campfire scene about warder origins, that the Aes Sedai might mention the 5-10 (?) warders they've had over the years.
A general criticism of this and other series (such as Rings of Power) is, when you have such rich source material, why invent new things and derail carefully constructed plotlines that authors spent years or decades revising? Do showrunners think they'll get a plum or something? Peter Jackson's rep was at its highest regard when he stuck very close to the plot in the original LOTR trilogy. Dan&Dan (from GoT) were also considered superstars when they stuck to the written material. The book fans *want* to stick to the book plot -- they won't get bored, promise! Rafe Judkins, please take a lesson here!
If they wanted to show the devastating reality of aging, having a scene with a young aes sedai watching her old man wader die in the yellow's ward would have served. I don't think this is important, though. Even if Liandrin is going to be merged with Elaida, which seems likely, I don't understand what we are supposed to take away from this scene. I guess we'll see if it becomes relevant later. So far it just seems like a clumsy attempt to humanize Liandrin. I think the actress is doing a great job, but this scene did not make me like this character more.
@@amys0482elaid ais mentioned m
By elayne episode 2. So she is a swperate character.
Liandrin is being set up as a reedmed character.
She only joined the dark one to save her son and so it's "understandable"
It's Scarlett witch killing a entire timelines because she wanted her kids that died in a town she mindcontrolled for months.
Don't worry it's OK Scarlett witch is a woman and that's OK that they committed genocide
IIRC Warders live longer and stay active/healthy FAR longer than normal unbonded humans. It's not like they live as long as an Aes Sedai, but the turnover rate is lower than you'd expect. Old Warders are only marginally slower than young ones, and more dangerous due to sheer experience.
Im black. What you said about the casting is nonsense.
They literally are forced through dei policies to pick a "diverse" cast. That makes it political. People voicing their disappointment does not make them racist. Especially whem the auther said who and what he wanted the actors to look like.
It makes zero sense. After 3000 years blood lines would blend.
It makes all the locations look the same when the differences between people and locations was a big part of the books.
A show does not have to reflect the skin colour of the people who watch it. That is racist.
Regardless of the level of adaptation. This show makes zero sense.
The only thing associated with Jordans work is the names. It looks like people in la playing cosplay not a fantasy show.
I appreciate your reviews. I cannot bring myself to watch season 2 so I'll just watch you lol. Condolences for your kitty 😢
No Rand, no heron marked sword. Why they just faded away?
I keep imagining Amy about to grab a blowtorch and buy WoT DVDS just to destroy them lmao you go girl lmao
Always love to hear your insights! Thank you
If this entire show was of the adaptation quality we got for Nynaeve's Accepted test and surrounding scenes, I'd be so so excited. These scenes also really sold Zoe's acting for Nynaeve, she really felt like the character to me here. For all the other issues and inconsistencies and questionable changes of the books I loved, they proved at least that they CAN do a proper adaptation of at least some of this if they really want. So let's see more of that! Subtle and refreshing intelligent changes to better fit TV vs the page, but following the original main plot and lore, please...
Yeah, the changes made to the accepted test were fine. I disliked the terangreal totally closing and Nyneave powering them open from the inside, but overall it was fine. The changes to her visions were fine.
@@amys0482 but why did they change the ter'angreal. Its clearly described in the books, 3 arches all touching at the base in a circle. why.
Rand having a wet dream and setting the roof on fire.😂 My wife was laughing about that for hours.
I think Liandrin is actually Liandrin+Elaida. We never went to Camelyn in S1 so Elaida was never introduced. Kate Fleetwood is playing Liandrin very well, but also in a different way than in the books, with previous hints that she is gaining support from other Ajahs. Time will tell, but I think Liandrin may become Amerylin in the future, if the reds continue to get support.
There are leaks suggesting Elaida has been cast and will be played by a fairly well known actor. Elaida is supposedly Rafe Judkins' favorite character.
I forgot about that, I remember a fan twitter storm telling an actress she would be a great Cadsuane, and Rafe contacting her about a role on the show, that he had in mind for her. She is older IRL but could pull off Elaida or Cadsuane.@@cairhieningent
If Elaida is Rafe's favorite character, that explains so much and makes me wonder if he only got as far in the books to the RP game (where you could play Elaida)? SMH, just like Elaida screwing things up in the Tower, Rafe is screwing this up, too.
"I enjoyed Lan working out" lmao
Thanks for mentioning the missteps with the Seanchan! You are one of the first I have seen actually commenting on this. I realize that there are other things to be upset about, but I really don't like this.
They are adding nuance to dark friends, but removing it from the Seanchan? I forgave the small town vibe due to budget, etc. We definitely heard some gruesome/scary things about them, but we the viewers have now seen this brutal attack. This isn't unreliable information.
Why are they attacking the town in the middle of the night? Just to give us a fight scene? There should be plenty of legitimate ones lol.
Darkfriends aren't as evil as slavers, don't you see.
Nice to see the video, thank you for your valued review and insight.
Personally, I think that 'standard' script writers need the audience to be stupid in order to just clap along and appreciate something because it has been made, not because it deserves any appreciation due to the quality of the show: hubris and condescension.
There's contempt for audiences.
I just want to say you are a braver person than I am and thank you for reviewing what’s out for season 2 so far. I stop watching after episode 4 of season 1. I couldn’t bring myself to continue because I feel the show is so awful. It was upsetting from the very beginning to find that they had changed ALL of the characters’ back stories. What was that about? I have come to the same conclusion that you presented in your review, the object of this was and is to make money. Watching your review was as if you and I had sat down over coffee and discussed what we find incredibly wrong with the tv version of Robert Jordan’s work. I have read the entire series 4 times and I don’t think he would have allowed this travesty to have his name attached to it. It just makes me so sad because I was so excited when I found out that Amazon was bringing it to tv.😢
Lan and the older woman thing with the malkieri is in new spring. Robert jordan did write thisx though i dont know why.
Someone else also corrected me on this. I routinely forget New Spring.
I’ve had many issues with this show. The poor job they did in S1 is what got me to go back to read the books, and I’ve absolutely loved them (currently reading LoC on round 2). Aside for butchering the characters from how they are depicted in the books, the whole Myrdrall/Lan fight is off. Lan is literally one of, if not the best, swordsman alive. In the books he goes up agains dozens of enemies, including multiple fades, and beats them. And here it’s as if he doesn’t know how to fight.
Surprised no one commented on that
I was too distracted by Moiraine knifing a fade and it melting instantly
The fight choreography imo is quite bad. Too many jump cuts, not enough swordplay. Why did the myrdraal bite at him instead of taunting him? We know they can speak... And why fades and not dragkar? That would've been 100x more tense and foreboding having Moiraine caught in the sirens song...
@@amys0482 clearly she cut its entire head off with her paring knife.... and also dodged its death throes, offscreen.
I know this is not the intention but your reviews to Wheel of time come so shady and entertaining, I am living every minute of your videos Amy. Please never change.
I assume the Lan X thing with an older woman is from new spring, Edeyn Arrel his carneira
That's possible. I only read New Spring one and don't remember that detail.
Amy you hit the nail on the head with how the writers aren't explaining anything. Scenes are just dropped in one after the other without any context. Who are these people ? Where are they ? What are they doing and why are they doing it ? What is the Horn of Valere and why is it important ? And the same for the dagger from Shadar Logoth. The "writers" either haven't got a clue about the basic and necessary ingredients of story telling or they are deliberately ignoring them.
I have a notion of what may be going on with the writing for Rand, Mat and Perrin. I think that so far their characters ( to varying degrees ) have been presented as examples of toxic masculinity. Rand is an angry pain in the butt and now a thug. Mat is an antisocial pain in the butt and a thief. And Perrin killed his probably pregnant wife to whom he was also unfaithful, if only in his heart. Even Lan who was stoical and steadfastly dedicated to Moiraine as her Warder in the books is in this show depicted ( when tested by the fallout from Moiraine's stilling or shielding ) as an angry man and even possibly a possessive type who is also tainted by toxic masculinity. In this show none of them are really trustworthy.
Gawd, I hope not. There was enough toxic masculinity in the original book series to make that unnecessary and offensive. Lan's advice to Rand about duty is toxic af. Nyneave changes Lan for the better. Rand nearly destroys the world trying to distance himself from his emotions. That is central to his character arc. Perrin also has some "nice guy" toxic traits that lead to trouble in his marriage, where he refuses to treat Faile like an equal. Mat's philandering and belittling of women lands him in some trouble too. They didn't need to change these characters to comment on messages given to men that are not always healthy for them.
Amy - Yes Lan's advice could be appalling. " Sheathing the sword " was about as awful as it gets ! I think Robert Jordan was putting his war experiences into the books and it is pretty traumatic at times. Some of his writing is torture porn really.
Book fan: I don’t understand decisions and changes made in the show
Rafe: “I win again Lews Therin”
Edit: best wishes for your cat!
I miss the wheel of wine and I don't think the audio was that bad :D
I'd love to build a wall of books like yours one day!
Whenever I attack anyone I always will drag them by their heals every time
I think they are going to try to Jamie Liandrin. I think the writers are trying to turn the WOT books into the GOT TV show. I think that's been the goal since day one. I'm surprised we haven't had more nudity and sex.
Well, you're on to something. I mean, Rand just met Syrio Forel who has PTSD from trying to kill a trolloc with a stick and it not working.
I won't watch season 3. It took me months to watch season 1 and 2 but I've had enough! I'll continue to watch your reactions though, your insights are great.
46:17 - That's actually taken directly from _New Spring,_ though... Both male and female Malkieri were expected to have a _carneira_ at some point between 15 - 18 years old, and it was absolutely a sexual relationship. In all cases, the women were the ones who initiated the relationship, i.e. young women chose older men, and older women chose a young man.
But I'm not surprised that one of the only things they actually adapted accurately is a borderline abusive sexual relationship between an older adult and a minor...
Yeah, I was wrong here. I forgot NS
@@amys0482 It happens. It's a rather lengthy series.
@@frocat5163 I don't really like New Spring. I only read it once.
@@amys0482 Yeah, I can understand that. It's different enough to feel a little out of place with the rest of the series. It's not my favorite, either. Also, the hacks making this show have needlessly changed and created so much stuff, it's perfectly understandable that you forgot something from a book you only read once.
I'm enjoying your commentary on the series. Keep up the great work!
Selene couldn't be more wrong. She is nothing like the books. She would never be slumming in the Foregate, she was constantly pushing Rand to become great, to pursue power and glory. Also, the actress is quite attractive, but way too old for Selene. She would have been great as Elaida, just not Selene.
Maybe they intend her to be Lanfear, and only intend to change her hair and makeup a bit 🤷
I agree. I don't expect the actress to be the most beautiful woman in the world bc that is too subjective, but she should "seem" to be the same age as Rand and very attractive and pristine and haughty. This actress is easily 10 years older than Rand and the physical abuse element of their relationship is just off for me. "Selene" is absolutely abusive, but it should be in a more emotionally manipulative and narcissistic way.
My biggest criticism of the first episode was Rand’s screen time. 12 seconds is just too much for the main character. Also, they could have given us another 30 minutes of Alanna describing how it feels to get railed by two guys, not sure why they kept that to ten minutes isn’t that what WoT is all about? Also, Lan could have whined and been Moiraine’s dog a bit more, not sure why the stone faced upstanding man portrayal.
Otherwise it was absolute perfection! I’m so glad we got such a great writing, directing, and showrunning team for the only adaptation of my favorite book series I’ll see in my lifetime! :)
I wonder if, perhaps, you are too pessimistic about that. General audience appetite for fantasy is much greater these days than it used to be. It wouldn't surprise me if we see another attempt at rendering the Wheel of Time within the next 20 years.
@@gilian2587I don’t know, with how much of a flop this is turning out to be I don’t think anyone else will want to touch it for another eternity honestly. I feel the show is unfortunately tainting the books’ reputation, or at least providing fuel for the view that they are “unadaptable”.
@@Mahalleinir The Lord of the Rings also had that reputation before Peter Jackson came along. Dune was considered unadaptable before a certain Canadian studio came along to adapt it as a tv series. Although, I do believe that the Wheel of Time show is on course to catastrophically fail in much a similar way as the Hindenburg; ending with infamy amongst the fanbase, and as a flash in the pan among everyone else - soon to be forgotten.
@@Mahalleinirproblem is that it isn't a flop. Rotten tomatoes rating is high amongst both audience and critics, it's most watched Amazon show in like 15 countries, season 3 is already green lit. I think it's finding an audience just not one made up of book readers.
@@Gilescowdemdem Rotten Tomatoes has been victim to a lot of astroturfing as of late; so it's difficult to tell if the either the critic scores or the audience scores are an accurate reflection of the show's reception. You may be right that the show is finding an audience; only time will tell if this audience is significant enough to keep the holey little boat afloat.
I look forward to your review and others WAY more than the show. I couldn't get past s01e02, but at least I'm being entertained by it existing.
Rand is an interesting case. Rands moral towards men changes as he grows up in the world of Wheel of Time and he becomes increasingly harsher. His will to protect women remain the same throughout. This would of course have been different if the cast was younger like they are in the books. RJ was interested in ordinary people forced to become heroes against their will, but something supernatural forces them and the conflicts that produce.
Whats really sad about these producers is that if they actually read the books they would see it had everything they wanted anyways, women in power, diverse races, lgbtq, everything, they didnt have to ruin the series...and rereading the books
I suspect they read a few of them 20 years ago in their teens but don't really remember them.
Pretty sure they are combining sniffers and wolf brothers when it comes to their abilities
I can't help but think of all the Witcher fans complaining about that show's adaptation and how they don't realize how lucky they a re. The Witcher, although changes have been made, has been way more faithful to the source material than The Wheel of Time. I wish the WoT show writers had been half as faithful to the books as the Witcher (which, especially with the short stories, I think it much harder to weave a continuing story out of).
I might do a Witcher review. I haven't read all the books so I can only speak as a non book fan. It makes some of the same errors in not explaining things / world building in a way that makes it hard to follow the plot, esp. with complex geopolitics.
@amys0482 perhaps. I'm actually reading the Witcher books after watching the show. So having been a show first person, I didn't feel I had trouble understanding what was going on. Once u figured out the whole time jumping thing of course. Now in reading the books I'm impressed with how much seasons 1 and 3 followed the general story. Yennifer had been greatly enhanced in the show, but I thought her character was a little thin in the books so I don't mind.
Witcher is a masterpiece compared to WOT. But it is still garbage.
@@scambammer6102 Why?
@@amys0482 terrible story structure and lame dialogue. as usual it's the writing. also in the last season they sidelined the main character, probably in retribution for criticizing the show. oh and ciri found a unicorn in the desert (pukes)
I am not sure that Liandran's arc in the TV series is going to be similar to her arc in the Books. Spoilers:
Specifically, I am not sure she is going to be Black Ajah like she is in the books. It seems to me that they are angling more to combine her arc with Elaida's. She is one of the main character's in the TV series at this point, rather than being a rather minor "bad guy" character. We totally skipped Caemlyn in season 1, and thus any introduction to Elaida. We have now been introduced to Elayne, again with no mention of Elaida. So - how would Elaida at this point become a thing? My guess, particularly with some of the comments made in season 1, is that Liandrin will end up deposing Suian and becoming the Amyrlin rather than Elaida, who frankly, I don't think will even appear. Sort of like the way they have been collapsing other characters into each others arc.
In a related manner, they are obviously cutting down the number of Forsaken as well. (Both Aginor and Balthamel do not appear). So - perhaps the character of Selene (Lanfear) is being combined with Graendal? That might explain some of her sexual proclivities in episode 2 that would otherwise be out of character for Lanfear.
Thank goodness you're watching this for me because I found S1 to be infuriating and checked out. They've already messed up so much that I have no idea how they can fix it.
"And then I watched it." 😂
I never read the series, partly because I read A Song of Ice and Fire in the mid 2000s, and did not want to invest myself in another series that would never be finished. Of course, Sanderson actually ended up finishing WoT. I had tried reading a couple of his other books previously, but I just could not get into them. I know a lot of fans were fairly happy with his work to wrap up the story though.
All of this to say, as someone who did not read the books, I enjoyed season 1, up until the last few episodes. I have enjoyed season 2 quite a bit so far, but I can sympathize with fans who love the books who are are not getting a more faithful adaptation. I also happen to have a soft spot for fantasy TV shows, so I grade them much more easily than other genres.
The series is worth reading. Rosamund Pike's narration of the new audiobooks is particularly good. Sandersons novels are my least favorite, but I am eternally grateful to him.
@@amys0482 I have never tried audio books. I prefer to imagine what different characters sound like when I am reading. I would probably be better served to hold off on reading the books until after the TV series is finished, or else I likely will not enjoy it as much.
Oh, Amy, you have read the producer interviews! Why you still deny his agenda and the visible effects that it has on the show? Anyway,, I still respect your attitude that no matter if you agree with the message that they push, valid criticism still must be made. So far, you are the only feminist person that I have seen having this attitude.
I don't know if I have read all of them. This show is not feminist to me. If anything, it undermines feminism. I did think the books were feminist, despite some flaws.
@@amys0482 I have seen multiple feminists calling out the sexism and the Patriarchy in WoT. The ideea that things must be changed to reflect today's reality. Maybe we are in disagreement about the definition of feminism in 2023.
@@mihaiserafimthere are many disagreements about feminism, the most modern feminism, called by some the fourth wave, a wave yet to come…
There are flaws, but better than the show
I have no idea how i missed that the old guy was Liandrin's son.
FYI, I've read these for 30 years as well and I have just accepted (pun intended) the fact that the only enjoyment I am getting out of this hack writing is to see my favorite world brought to life on the screen
I feel like I could have had this exact conversation with you in real time. I agree almost 100% with you except the fact I kinda enjoyed the Rand/Selene scenes. NOT because they were great but BECAUSE they weren't a terrible re-imagining of the source material. If I hadn't read the books, I would have liked it. I'm 50/50 on how Rand is since he is my favorite and always will be. I think he gets a pass because I like his book character so much and I feel the actor can do it justice eventually. I can see your points though and his demeanor is written poorly unless this was later in the story where he goes dark side. I won't mention Mat's utter simpness. It's just sad.
The continued tossing to the side of our three main male characters and the new sitcom "The Liandrin Show : WOT inspired" is just what it is at this point. I really think Rafe just liked the idea of Jordan's IP and then hired a bunch of 3rd rate Witcher writers to redo the show in his image.
The good parts is that production value has increased and I really enjoy areas and sets and characters are front and center on TV. I love Nynaeve and they are doing her justice but not from the source material. Egwene and Elayne are both solid but they doing a disservice to Moiraine. She is literally the epitome of boss bitch in the books but they make her whiny in the tv show? Color me confused.
Lastly, I will keep watching just to see things I've read about brought to me in a new medium. This is just poorly written fan fiction with a big budget though. It's not even book snobbishness, you can find HUNDREDS of reviews (that aren't politically or culture based) that just don't understand why less talented writers thought they could do better than an International Best Selling author who is critically lauded throughout the genre. (At least they aren't worse than the Witchers writers though)
Witcher is hard for me to review bc I haven't read the books, but it does suffer from some mediocre writing.
@@amys0482 I didn’t read the books either but it’s pretty clear to me when the story is about a Witcher who fights monsters but the show is about , anything except that…. You know?
Same reason I couldn’t even get past episode 1 of the rings of power
Meanwhile Shadow and Bone was well received and so were a number of Eastern fantasy adaptations
Thank you for covering this series. The adaptation is terrible but I appreciate your even keeled commentary.
Her son can channel. I can't believe that I didn't put it together during the moment. Moiraine threatened to out her son to the other Reds. That would induce a ton of rage from someone like Liandrin.
Feel like this is a bit of a reach considering how mad he would be and how old he looks.
There's zero allegiance to book canon. Do you think maybe forkroot was found early and stops channeling madness. Or maybe they've changed the way madness comes on in this turning.
@@Gilescowdemdem
Maybe.
Yay! I don't think i will be watching the show this season, but i will always check out your reviews/thoughts.
you said you were fine with diversity. But making character like Rand not likeable or aes sedai using sword is part of it. This has a lot more impact than chosing the cast. This is why there is so many people that spoke against it.
Force inclusion in a recluded small village like Two Rivers is absurd. They have a whole diverse world, the have the White Tower, different kingdoms, and oversea empire... C´mon!. Two Rivers becoming a Benetton advertisment is so unnecesary and incoherent...
Then again, everybody was talking about Rand looking like an Aiel. But judging by local Aviendha, he was anything, but.
TV-Alanna is a Mix of book-Myrelle and book-Alanna. Myrelle and Moiraine were close enough friends to do the illegal bond switching.
Moiraine loses her magic in S2, just like Yennefer in The Witcher? How unoriginal.
The writers just don't understand the world of the wheel of time. For instance if an Aes Sedai was thirsty she would not filter dirty water, she would just channel water from the air around her and drink it. To be fair though, Aes Sedai do admit that a lot of weaves that are used in training are techically useless, but safe for novices to practice.
Can you tell me how the Cleansing works?
I have to assume you mean cleasing the male half (saidin) of the one power. If I remember correctly Rand and Nynaeve make use of the access keys that link with the Choedan Kal (two sa'Angreal), on a hill near Shadar Logoth. Rand then starts channeling massive amounts of saidin and Nynaeve (our greatest healer by this time) uses saidar to strip the taint from his weave into the ruins of Shadar Logoth. The evil in Shadar Logoth then starts distroying the taint. By the time its finished, both the taint and the ruins are gone leaving a massive hole/crater where the city once stood. Ha I think I see what you did there, Nynaeve learnt/knows how too strip fowlness off of something pure! @@cairhieningent
Nailed that gatekeep check. love to see it@@albertaguy4817
I do be angry that Bayle no accent from Illian.
And he be wearing a moustache by my aged grandmother !
He did “do be” once at the beginning to silence book readers who would complain about this…only to convert over to a strange Scottish dialect for the rest of his lines and not talk like an Illianer anymore.
fortune prick me lol @@LooseTheremin
I feel like they made a big mistake with Perrin's fridge-wife. He killed her with an axe. How would he take up the axe after that? How can they include his arc if they can't give him an axe? The first episode completely messed up his character.
yet again fair and balanced review. I feel stuck between idiotic bookcloacks and what im now calling idiotic showcloacks who think nothing is wrong like we are in a scene from children of the corn. your a breath of fresh air
Amy, New Spring spoilers:
Lan’s lover wanted to force Lan to marry her daughter and then his lover was planning to murder him and leverage a type of Regency of Malkier in exile for her pregnant daughter… it was in New Spring.
But what was also in New Spring is her daughter was murdered by the Black Ajah, and she retired from the world as a broken woman.
I have been corrected here. I only read New Spring once and forgotten most of it.
@@amys0482 just started a reread and started with NS this time.
I agreed with your overview completely, but I felt like you skipped too quickly over the unexplained inconsistencies in the time skip except Moiraine lying about Rand. How did Loial recover from being stabbed pretty badly by the Ruby Hilted Dagger? Why does no one care Eg healed Nyn from whatever she healed her from? They left S1 on a bunch of cliff hangers and then started S2 with everybody off the cliff and nobody seems to remember they were ever on it.
Yeah, that was some pretty poor writing. I don't even know why they bothered including Loial since he doesn't do anything he does in the books.
While it's necessary to change and adjust a story for a TV, some of the choices made are confusing and I feel that someone who wasn't familiar with the books could struggle to follow the story and relate to the characters in their journey.
Whether you like it or not, we know for a fact that politics entered into this, since Rafe Judkins himself said so: "I'm a feminist and it's very important to me that the show is feminist in today's context". Feminist - in today's context. Crystal clear. If that's not a political agenda, then I honestly don't know what is.
But apart from that, I agree with a lot of your points of course. I stopped watching this sham of a show after season 1 episode 4 (I really tried to give it a chance until then, but it quickly became unbearable to watch), but I do listen with great pleasure to your analysis. Thank you very much!
I find Rafe's understanding of feminism to be very ill informed if his takeaway from TWOT is that men make the power filthy.
@@amys0482 I wholly agree with that! I always found Wheel of Time to be quite feminist in its own right, and the way female characters seem to be depicted in the show is really not flattering.
I thought Morraine carried the water because she wanted to maintain her status and take baths but didn't want to ask anyone else to do her work for her, especially Lan who she wants to keep at bay right now. Also the scene with the bath and her trying to use her powers is reminescent of the scene in season 1 where she takes a bath with Lan and has the power to heat up the water, a reminder of what she lost for the audience.
I didn't mind the part where she was alone in the bath unable to heat the water. I just don't understand why she is hauling water when the dragon has been reborn and the fate of the world is balanced on the edge of a knife. Even without the One Power, she is a noble woman. Pushing Lan away doesn't make sense.
@@amys0482 Yes I also didn't understand why she was pushing Lan away, given the importance of her mission, but I guess she doesn't want him to die... he was supposed to be the warder to an Aes Sedai who had powers herself, not give his life for one who couldn't contribute anything to the fight.
@@amys0482 Canonical Moiraine, even without the One Power, would do her best to become Rand's political advisor.
@@danmusiceasy Problem is, if she pushing Lan aside, Lan will die. He will travel to the Blight and put the end to the last of the Malkier. Canonical Lan, at least.
Dan Flute - Except in the books Moiraine would get the others to do her menial work for her, it was kind of a running joke for a while. But of course this adaptation being "feminist" they have to show poor Moiraine being forced to carry her own water up a steep hill ! As if she hasn't enough to weigh her down as it is what with being disempowered by a male fascist oppressor !
As for the second bath scene it shouldn't have been in the show. It's just another example of the "writers" making up things that don't matter to put into their "adaptation" while they leave things from the books that do matter out of their "adaptation".
Like the first bath scene in season one for example, it was completely unnecessary. It was only dropped in as an expression of Rafe Judkins "free wheeling" sexual beliefs. The bath scene they should have had was in Fal Dara where the custom was for the sexes to bathe together which freaked out the prudish Emond's Fielders no end. That was part of the humour that Robert Jordan liberally sprinkled his WoT books with. And humour is something that these "writers" have omitted entirely from their woeful adaptation. Because I guess who needs humour when you can replace it with propaganda.