Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 6: Book fan review
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Amazon's The Wheel of Time TV Show is still pretty good in its second season, much better than at this point in season one, especially if you don't think about the details.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The Yellow sister was the first proper Aes Sedai portrayal of the series so far, she is serien and calm when Nynaeve has the burst of power that causes their discovery, she is serien during the battle and only drops her composure when her warder dies and she is captured.
I agree, I liked her: a true servant of all. Also her yellow-Ajah battle moves. But I did not unterstand why she agreed to this super risky plan of maybe rescueing some damane, when she should have made sure that the Amyrlin is informed of the Seanchan and the Black Ajah.
I think they have fundamentally changed that part of the Aes Sedai to allow the actors more scope to emote for TV
I totally understand the issue with pouncing names. Anytime my friends and I would get together and talk about the fantasy books we were reading, we all had different pronunciations for the characters' names. Keep making your videos!
Thanks as always for your thoughts.
Agreed that the Egwene damane scenes were the strongest of the episode. It's clear that Rafe really was looking forward to this part of TGH and so it will be given the show's full attention. It deserves it - Egwene's damane arc in TGH is important, but as always we wish they put the same effort into the other characters.
Regarding Elayne and Nynaeve lacking agency in their scenes with Ryma... I'm afraid my first thought was 'welcome to the party,' as this is what the 3 Emonds Field boys have been subjected to all along. No agency, told where to go and what to do by other characters. But I take your point that they are doing something similar now to our female leads as well.
I'm afraid I didn't feel much about Ryma's capture or the death of her Warder. It's like Kerene and Stepin in S1... we didn't know these characters well enough to care and their stories and bad fates just seem to have been added for drama without actually making us care about the characters first.
Regarding Mat, they still can't give him anything meaningful to do apart from abandoning his friends yet again. How many times is that, now? First outside the Waygate, next in Tar Valon (failing to go to Egwene), now in Cairhien (without even telling Rand why)... He's still not a likeable rogue, and still hasn't shown his famous self-effacing bravery and loyalty.
With you on not caring about the invented conflict between Moiraine and her sister. I'm not sure what the writers think this is adding to the story. It's using up limited screen time and simply isn't important to the overall narrative. Like the whole shielding/stilling thing, and the ridiculous way she pushed Lan away, her conflict with her sister seems to just be there to give her more scene time.
And yes, the Lan scenes continue to be awful. Accusing Lan of being a Darkfriend is ridiculous. Nobody who knew Lan, and certainly not another Warder or Aes Sedai, would ever accuse him of being a Darkfriend. I'm just not sure why they are inventing this nonsense, other than to give more scene time to Alanna, Maksim and Ihvon. It's not needed and it makes all the characters look silly.
Just as a prediction, the wedding is being built up a lot, and I think they are going to attempt a 'Red Wedding' type event (possibly a Shadowspawn attack organised by Lanfear who gets angry that Rand and Lan meet up again with Moiraine). The show often borrows plot ideas from other shows, and the Red Wedding in GoT was an infamous scene and fan favourite. So expect something similar in the show.
As you say near the end, lack of respect for the source material leading to a huge missed opportunity is a good way to sum up the show, including this season. They had gold to work with, and somehow turned it into tin.
I did not get why Ryma Sedai would accept to camp out with the girls in Falme to make an incredibly dangerous plan to rescue a single novice, when it is of utmost importance that the Amyrlin learns of the Seanchan and Black Ajah.
I also don't get why she sacrifices her Warder instead of sending him to Tar Valon.
Audio was definitely WAY better! Thanks for everything! Following your journey is fun
My favorite part is where Liandrin takes the horses through The Ways when in season one Loial had them send the horses away because "they won't survive in The Ways". I'm fairly certain these writers don't care about details or continuity. But overall, I'm with you. it was a good episode. It's no coincidence that the best episodes are ones that have the most accurate book scenes.
I'm going to call that out in a review of the full season
@@amys0482 Looking forward to it! Best WoT reviewer on the internets! It's nice hearing reasoning behind opinions and not just either fawning over the show or trashing it like most others seem to do :)
Shhh... we don't talk about that. Just like the stabbing of Loial with the Shaddar Logoth dagger... or the 'everyone not the Dragon will die at tEotW' and Moiraine doing just fine... or Nyneave being brought back from the dead by Egwene... never happend...
In the books there is a hint that she has a way around Machin chin. In the show, I don't know how anything works TBH. things happen because they do. There is no explanation to anything. They are treating a hard magic system like a soft one. The author goes through painstaking time and pages to explain every new magical ability and it's limitations. In the show they just ignore these and just do what they think looks cool or is convenient.
They need another choreographer for this show. The fight scene was ridiculous. Seanchan soldiers and damane/suldam are just standing around in their bizarre pose, waiting for Ryma to finish doing her thing.
They also need to start figuring out distances and time for traveling. Rand heading off to Falme on foot?
Rand's channeling lesson was just 10 seconds of him embracing the source, while he came in asking for "battle weaves" (interesting term). Conclusion: he's so powerful he need not care about all that learning crap.
All their new plotlines are starting to collide with the original stories in ways that don't bode well.
Still, there were more things that worked in this episode than things that didn't. IF you shut your brains down.
basically this. I want to wait for the season to be over before commenting on the traveling but it is very eyebrow arching.
YES! The only well choreographed scene was blood snow (or whatever it was called) from season 1. Aviendha had some cool moves but the shakey quick cut camera drove me insance and we also literallly have not seen perrin swing his hammer once.
Can't wait to see Rand travel, on foot, from Cairhien to Falme in a couple of days on this abomination of a show. Or perhaps he will find a stable of horses, where he will take a horse but thinking that someone is following him, he will have to stupidly kill all the other horses like, Moiraine taught him. Temple of the Forsaken? are you F in kidding? plus the "we will kill you if we think you are a darkfriend" is not how the three oaths work. Min should see symbols and images, not actually see future events as they will happen. Some images that she sees she has grown to know, means that certain things will happen and others that she sees she has no clue what they mean, like how the show runners have no clue how to make a thoughtful and entertaining show..
@@tiger35jbAes Sedai can kill people, just not with the Power, but even then, as soon as one of her Warders is in danger. Alanna can't hold him with Air all the time, but she can release him and either a Warder kills him, or he fights back and then she can roast him.
@@Gilescowdemdembut, to be fair, they had rented some super expensive special camera for the Blood Snow +had a stunt woman as the protagonist. You can't expect them to keep up this quality in every fight scene.
Nevertheless, the Ryma fight was really weird choreographed.
It honestly bothers me more when they attempt scenes from the books that don't make sense in the context of the show than when there are non-book scenes added to try to make the story coherent.
Lan giving Rand advice might spin out that way. Lots of "Easter egg" scenes but not all of them are well done. I did like seeing the stones board.
It’s like the serial killer that makes a skin suit, but you know it isn’t that person, it is nothing like that person, but then the serial killer makes an effort but it still looks so wrong.
@@amys0482The go/stones board made me very happy as well. :)
I generally agree, but my issue is that if they spent less time on stuff not in the books or out of order, they could do the context book material...
The damane being held in rooms that are not gaurded, locked, or made very secure at all, helps inderscore the fact that they are completely helpless and have no way to free themselves. Being locked in a secure, stone dungeon implies they are a danger to their captives.
It's the overplay they do with everything. Huge rings. Ridiculous nails. Cells instead of rooms. Dragging damane by the collar and then saying they believe in friendship.
I don't see why they can't just run away. Can't cut a hole in the cell the same way Matt cut a way out of his cell.
@@darriuscole8544 that is exactly what @williamholt8326 is talking about. they can not. physically can't. the collar prevents them from running, violence against their captors, channeling or even embracing the source without prrmission
@@darriuscole8544 the collar onlt lets you go so far from the leash before it paralyzes you with pain. You cant touch the leash without it paralyzes you with pain. Thats why sticking them in a dungeon makes no sense. You could just as easily stick them in tents and they would be just as secure.
@@williamholt8326 - Clark Kent's glasses.
Some fictional mythology have magic systems with well defined rules. That are consistently upheld throughout the mythology. The things that can or can not happen are consistent with those rules as they are explained.
On the other hand, sometimes you get something that should not work according to the rules you have been given, but it works any way because they author says it does. So we just accept it and move on because we like the rest of the story. Case in point, Clark Kent's glasses.
They should not hide Superman's identity with the rules we are given in the DC universe, especially not from someone as close to him as Lois Lane was even before they married. But its fiction, as long as they don't let to many things go against the rules like that it's okay.
That is what this collar strikes me as: something that should not work but the fiction says it does so we roll with it.
While I was watching it I was thinking to myself, she has so many options. There are so many ways to kill someone. She should just tell the woman that she is going to kill he so she should just let her go now.
Barricade the door, make traps, use animals, send messages, make alliances, tell lies, get someone else to kill the woman for her, etc.
But I am sure that whatever idea one thinks of the collar will have some counter for it, such that it can only be explained by the collar being all seeing and all knowing. We can already see that it is clearly alive and can read her mind.
I'll roll with it for now as putting the collar on Egwene is the only thing that resembles a coherent villain arc that gives me something to pull for.
Natasha O'Keeffe is killing it. She manages to show lust, jealousy, hatred, arrogance, amusement and an underlying instability with nothing more than facial expressions and she does it brilliantly. Obviously everyone is talking about Madeleine but I think Natasha is the best performer for me.
As much as i love the book series the villians could be one dimensional, she is doing a fab job of making Lanfear interesting and fleshed out.
When Elayne said Liandrin had broken 'every single one of' the Three Oaths, I was wondering were the magic weapon was, that Liandrin supposedly created...😂
good note!
As I am concerned as long as that cat tree is behind in the view I am happy, nothing is more relaxing than watching your beautiful fur babies napping!
they are adorable little floofs
Audio is sounding much better on headphones! L-R synch issues resolved!
Thank you for giving a well thought out comprehensive breakdown of these episodes. Most of the content around this show is over the top fawning where mistakes are noticed but skimmed over, and changes are accepted easily because they knew there would be a lot of changes. On the other side there is a lot of over dramatized negative content for the show as well. I think at best this show is mid. They did so much damage in season 1 and I doubt they are talented enough to correct it.
The last 2 episodes have been the best so far because they included the most book adjacent scenes, but some of them feel out of place because now they don't fit with the changes they have made. Moirane is unlikable, Liandrin is a co main character for some reason while they ignore the three boys, Nynaeve is somehow more insufferable then she was at this point in the books ( mind you, I actually like her character overall in the books as it one of the best character archs we get), and I actually like Elayne, which i thought I would never say. Sorry for rambling, I'm going to go calm my wife down since she is very dissatisfied with the show.
Thanks so much for the reviews. I hope people will read the books to get this amazing world that was built for us.
100% agree with your closing statements. The books are just infinitely better. The show scenes that are good are taken directly from the books and are fine scenes in and of themselves. But they're less impact full because the story is less coherent. The made up show scenes are bad, often nonsense in fact that contradict the lore or confuse the viewers (does the world of dreams have consequences or not? They can't seem to decide) and the character relationships are contrived to create needless drama.
I do not understand why they make adaptations so different from the source material. I think the first season of Game of Thrones and The Fellowship of the Ring Movie, are adaptations that are close to the source material. And I find them superior in quality to other Fantasy Stories on screen.
Thankyou for great videos, Amy.
The name of the other AS captured by Ryma was Sheraine who eventually reappears as Mylen and is present when Kadere visits Mat's camp in book 11
I remembered Mylen but not her real name. I also know Tuon trains her and punishes her for a foretelling that she didn't like.
@amys0482 no that was Lidya that had the foretelling but Mylen was a damane that Tuon trained herself after others had given up trying to break her.
We only knew who Mylen was due to the 3 sisters with Mat recognizing her.
@@Finnssssss Ah
@@amys0482 I only remembered this so quickly because I literally just finished book 11 during my current reread lol
Definitely landing in the country of "decent TV, not so great adaptation". The butchery of Lan is really getting to me, and here I was thinking all the men got the shaft last season (whereas in this season, it's mostly Lanfear and Alanna getting the shaft, *ba dum tish*). Good catch about the lack of agency with the women, though. From your reviews and a few other things I've seen, seems to be getting worse as the season goes on.
Audio is DEFINITELY improved, and please do keep these up! I love having someone able to be critical about the show without shrieking about wokeness every five seconds.
Audio is back in stereo, which is nice!
One thing with the script writing that just kills me is they do the "CW trope" of always choosing the most dramatic dialogue, instead of the most believable. When Lan sees Rand again, instead of saying "We need to talk", it's "I'm afraid I can't let you leave" (or whatever he says). I suppose since they never make Rand and Lan friends, they can't do some line like "Why hello sheepherder, it seems you aren't Walking the Reeds well" or something as he appears out of the shadows next to him which would AT LEAST emphasize something about their relationship as mentor/mentee, etc.
I will be a little sad if Lan delivers more lines from Book Lan without earning any of those lines with the characters.
(Also, can stilled people still see channeling now? How does Logane know how much Rand is channeling / can he see the source?)
As always, enjoy the balanced reviews :) thanks for doing them!
Oh, similarly -- Has Mat earned to say that he has the moral high ground with Rand in the show and will prevent him from becoming too arrogant? Like... Mat abandoned them (and we also see him abandon Egwene when she needed him) and hasn't really done anything to make you think "Wow, I'd be be glad to have him looking out for my moral compass!!"
@@teej_dv I don't think Mat has moral ground over Min either.
This exactly. Every scene is so over the top.
@@amys0482 mat was going to LEAVE min trapped... Until he failed to help his actual friend, Egwene, and was so depressed he went back and let her out 😂
Don’t sweat it about the pronunciation, you are doing great. I have been a fan of yours since season 1. I love your even handed but honest reviews, and they save me from having to watch this season so , thanks for everything you do!!!
Just to let you know I have read the books several times and totally agree that where they have followed the books are the strongest parts. Yes, it is frustrating to see what they have changed result in an inferior show. Agree that while things need to be cut the introduction of new or change for the sake of change, blood and bloody ashes what is LAN’s function. Your audio seems very good.
I think Lans function is to intervene, as he sees Moiraine loosing control of events. He realised she is in over her head and needs allies. That's why he brings Siuan in and tells Alanna (as her confronting him convinces him that she isn't Black Ajah).
I remember reading the scene where Egwene is leashed back when I was 13-14. Up to that point I was indifferent to the series, but that scene and Egwene's training was shocking because it was the first book I'd read where one of the main characters had truly bad things happen to her. After that I was hooked because I knew nothing was off the table.
Yeah, it's great. It was surprising to reread it as an adult because the rescue plan happens much faster than I remembered. The ending of The Great Hunt is one of the best in the series imho.
Don’t apologize please. I understood exactly what you were talking about while realizing I am speaking for myself. What I am hoping for is your insights. You realize more than I can get in four viewings. For example I can’t remember how many times Nynaeve has died so far. Wow only two more episodes and a whole continent to cross. You are right about the inconsistencies in logic, but again spectacle is paramount. Mat is a problem for me honestly. He is the person who will complain the entire time he is saving your life. Yup, will all of Mins visions come true, or another fake out death. The changes in Lan, the character formerly known as Lan, has me, well you just got there in your review.
So... here we are, about 14 hours into a TV show.
Do we even know the stakes yet?
If Egwene breaks or dies in the next episode, does anyone care?
If Lan gets killed, or Moron, how many people will breathe a sigh of relief?
Even more, if it happens to Nynaeve and/or Mat instead?
or Moron 😅
@@amys0482 Yeah... they've taken away her intelligence by having her be the unreliable narrator too many times.
Not to mention that they've made her unlikable.
They're doing the same thing to Min, turning her into a Darkfriend...
I wonder how long it will be before Elayne and Aviendha get the same treatment.
Excellent, balanced review. I cannot watch this season because I can't enjoy what has happened to a beloved series. I will stick with the audiobooks and actual re-reads. The audio sounded great to me! Thank you.
I have not watched Season 2 of the Wheel of Time yet. Based on what I'm hearing... I'm leaning towards probably not wanting to watch season 2, at the moment. If there's a Robert Jordan tier climax to season 8 (he handled book climaxes *REALLY* well); then that might convince me that it's worth my time. If not; I can find plenty of other things to occupy my time. I really appreciate your episode summaries Amy.
I’m not saying it is good, but so far it seems better than season 1 😅
@@jsbrads1 That's progress, at least. : )
I believe Suian arriving in Cairhein is a mirror to when she arrives in Fal Dara in the books to meet Rand and they keep him from leaving town. . We shall see.
I started reading the series again. I never made it past the 7th or 8th book, despite numerous tries. What that reminded me was just how *ungodly* many characters there are in the books, and at least in the early books, just how many different scenes there are with different characters. That remembrance triggered a reflection on the series: there was just no way they could ever have come close to the kind of depth the books had. While I knew that going into the series, it was easy to forget just how much *stuff* there was there.
And this is why it's so frustrating to me to see how much of the little time they have each season on things which are not in the books at all and are worse than what *is* in the books. These books need every second they can get, judiciously figuring out how to merge and skip scenes and characters while keeping the overall sense alive. But when we get these extra things thrown in like Moirane's family drama and warder drama, things which are not very interesting, I can't help but think what had to be cut to get them.
I also think your comments on lack of agency are dead on: the series seems to let things happen to its characters and then portray their suffering, or when they have the temerity to act on their initiative they are punished for it because most of their decisions prove to be foolish.
Regarding pronunciation: don't feel too bad. Even the show seems to be unable to pronounce everything correctly (e.g., moy-RAIN instead of mwah-RAIN). I still have trouble with Cairhien (I tend to think "KAIR-hee-un" instead of "KEYE-ree-an") We all just do the best we can. 🙂
Honestly as far as pronunciation I could care less what anyone has to say. That would be different if I were making videos for accuracy purposes.
The reality is (for myself) part of reading books is you form your own imagination, and that includes the way things are pronounced. I've been reading since '97 ( i was in high school) if people knew how pronounced the names they would be horrified. Same thing goes for the Seachan culture I personally envisioned a different accent, not the southern accent that even the author has said.
My non-book reader wife is enjoying it. I’ve read the series five times and am having a hard time enjoying it due to how different the adaptation is from the books. If I never read the books I think I’d really like it too. But I’m struggling even though I’ll admit this last episode was pretty good.
I understand your pain. The pain is real, dude.
Well, Kubricks movie "The Shining" is on the one hand a masterpiece and on the other hand hated with a passion by fans of the book, inlcuding Stephen King himself, because its basically a different story in the same setting with the books main villain, the hotel, being reduced to a location. You don't have to like something even if it is very good.
@@gildor8866 I never knew that.
@@gilian2587 it feels like I’m watching some alternate reality fan fiction version. There have been so many changes that have left me scratching my head.
@@gildor8866 Steven Spielberg's Jurassic Park is a deeply unfaithful adaptation of Michael Crichton's book. Of course the majority of the book spends a great deal of time discussing the implications of systems of differential equations and chaos theory. The movie skips a lot of this; writes it's own story and became a blockbuster hit. The discussion from the book was dumbed down by a pretty substantial margin in the movie.
For me, there is not a single character that I like and care about. Every single one is presented by the story as an asshole and there's no reason to root for any of them. Moiraine is supposed to be super intelligent and driven and since almost the beginning, she's been written as just not that smart. None of the characters have any depth to them. They are just shallow, surface imitations of what we have in the books except for Mat and Min who are completely unrecognizable as characters.
Logain, Ishamael or Eamon Valda -- my favorite characters in the show. At this point... I am beyond caring what happens in the show; the themes of the books have been butchered. The characters have been butchered. The lore... um... much could be unreliable narrator still; but probably butchered. I am wondering if perhaps the kindest thing to do with this show is to put it down, at this point -- I have not watched season 2... so I have already put it down, for myself. Perhaps if s2e8 could manage a Robert Jordan scale climax; I might be willing to pick it back up again -- but trying to tolerate 50 Shades of Gray style writing from the showrunners... I'm really not sure that it would even be worth my time.
@@gilian2587 I'll let you know if they stick the landing... anywhere close to the book. Season 2 is better quality than the end of Season 1 by a fair margin (those last two episodes were atrocious) but the writing is still an overly dramatic cheese fest.
@@amys0482 You have been extremely reliable, so far. I have been watching both Nae'blis and your channel as each new episode has been coming out. His for an 'optimistic' take, and yours for a more grounded (generally disapproving) take.
@AmyStewart the biggest problem with he dragging by the chain scene was that Rena wasn't putting any effort into it , and 1 person cannot just walk normally dragging someone like that and i don't give a hoot who they are they would still need to show pulling so that was very farcical too me, i mean it looked and felt like egwene was doing all the work withering around so why put it in. (apart from that most of the egwene scenes i actually liked for a change) i mean the rest of the episode i was going huh wtf why god damn it hate watching still. I did feel they didn't really show that she couldn't escape as there didn't appear to be any tether to the bracelet so no real knowledge of how far away from it she could get which was an issue for me she was in a huge cell and could cover the entire floor no worries. What didn't work for me with the loial scene was that they automatically assumed he could treesing, in the books it's a rare ability and it's rarer still that loial is actually strong with this ability. so like what is every ogier now a tree singer ? I never once felt the characters were in any real danger though, and hey magic can resurect the dead and cure the sheo logath dagger wounds to full without recovery time. and peeps can survive it.
My problem with matt is he is coming across to me as more of a conman the way he explaiend the roll and such felt conman material rather than him gambling with dice and them all knowing the rules already, they're also not really showing his luck and they took away his staff and warder scene and gave it too Nynaeve, and with only 2 episodes left i can't see him doing that nor can i see him using much of the ancient tongue like he should be all males are severely under developed as to where they should be. And Matt takes the cowards way out in the scene where he could of gone to rand told min about the vission and why he can't go with his friend instead he watches from hiding and slinks off :| .
It was commented apon either this episode or the last that the Amyrlin was in Caemyln so she was able to get from there to the tower and down to cairhein extremely quickly like the world is so god damn small, and i'd like to know where the Amyrlins retinue is as she usually went around with a few aes sedai and a horde of warders and honor guard |:
So far all the mains have shown themselves to be evil in some way and they have not really shown them to be good in any way. so it's a show of evil v's evil ?
As a long time book reader, I really enjoy your perspectives on this "adaptation" of WOT. Don't worry too much about how to pronounce things. Even Michael Kramer and Kate Redding in the audio books frequently change the way they say things. I do have a question. How do your cats get to the top of their "play tower"?
They climb straight up. They don't use the platforms. I'll catch it on video eventually. It happens really fast.
Kittens have these things called claws; and they are really good at using them.
Thanks for fixing the audio for headphones, im a book reader. Glad youre doing this. For me the only really good thing about the season is that when it began I started rereading the eye of the world and am now with the boys on the hunt for the horn. I wanted this to be good. I really did. It hurts that is has deviated so far. Please keep it up. Hopefully we can all watch Dumai's Wells in solidarity.
I can say Rosamund Pike's narration is fantastic. I understand people sticking with the original, but I think I prefer Pike's version. She acts ALL the characters. She puts a lot of effort into it. It's great.
@@amys0482I like and own the originals but I agree with you. She does a great job narrating and you can tell she’s acting it out.
Your audio is much better now. 😊
Yay, thank you!
What they were going for with Lan: The confrontation is there to convince Lan that Alanna and her Warders are not Darkfriends. He sees Moiraine loosing control by trying to do everything herself and decides to bring others in. That is why he is searching for Siuan. He tells her of the failure at the EotW and Moiraines stilling.
Siuan goes to Cairhien to take over.
I said it under your s02e07 review and I'll say it again: they made a mistake in setting up Moiraine as the big main character, and then making up some stuff for her (and Lan). It really distracts from the Emond's Fielders in particular, and also Elayne, while there's not much time. One of those things bugging me is that for book Rand, Perrin and Mat fighting skills are quite crucial. Show Rand... meh... practicing forms for a bit (off screen) is good too. Mat, literally nothing. Though I suspect they'll just (ab)use the Old Blood thing for him.
I thought this episode was the strongest yet. With that said, Mat calling Rand the Dragon Reborn so casually in Caihrien was hilarious. I remember in the books Mat trying his hardest to get as far from Rand as possible during this time. The Dragon has no gravity on this show, the words mean nothing. This man is the most powerful channeler alive destined to go mad and will break the world, yet Mat slaps Rand on the shoulder and has a chuckle about it? I don't understand the vision with this show at all. Perrin and Mat are not interesting at all and have no personality. We spend all our time with the girls and Lan who they have turned into an emotional trainwreck. I could write a novel about what they've done with Rand but I'll spare you.
Anyways, the yellow sister was great. I think Elayne's actress is tremendous, Egwene's actress did a great job this episode too. Renna is the most compelling villain we have in this show which is pretty sad, but the performance was strong.
Another much improved episode. They're definitely handling egwenes story really well. That said, please please give rand some love! His character development has been so lacking all season. Maybe he gets some real focus in 7/8 but show the boys some love 😂
Thank you for your review. It's a my favourite episode of the season. But I'm afraid if they will be able to have a flicker flicker scene
interesting to hear what you thought
You responded to my comments about pronunciation comment. Awww, bless your heart, just teasing.
When you say that Rand is dramatic in the show and such and how he leaves Moirane without explanation /... is he not kinda same in the book? he acts a similar way in the camp, has an argument with her then storms out and goes to Tear...Perin was no any better he used to drive me insane all up to book 4 the way he was with Moirane ...particularly when it came to healing.. but you are absolutely spot on when it comes to all Nyneave and Elayne scenes in this episode ... great insight...I would also prefer if they slow down and answer all these questions, and have more natural conversations and time to bond referring to Mat and Rand Scene ... but we know that with only 8 episodes per season, this is impossible ... Rafe wanted 12 and tried to get at least 10 episodes per season but Amazon only agreed to 8 ... so there will be always supersonic pacing with this many characters ...
Rand chafes at Moiraine trying to manipulate him in the books and is frustrated by her serenity. She is actually trying to help but he doesn't see it that way and she doesn't approach him like a partner. Sometimes he blames her for things the Pattern is doing, which isn't fair. Running away in TDR was to prove he had some control, but he ended up in Tear holding Calendor despite no Aes Sedai pulling strings. That marks the beginning of Rand being less reactive and more strategic. Moiraine struggles with her own loss of control. Only by swearing oaths in later books does Rand start to trust her enough to take advice.
Yet another episode where Rand, Mat and Perrin achieve nothing and don’t advance their book plots. For Lan he should leave his hair down, put on a dress and just maybe get a good scene.
Before the start of the season we were told that this was The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn, they still say that season 3 will more closely follow The Shadow Rising. For that to be true then by the end of the next two episodes then Rand will have:
- Shown he is an excellent swordsman and competent fighter that can earn the respect of soldiers and especially the Aiel;
- Learnt and shown that he can lead a military company;
- Understand and demonstrate how to be a Lord;
- Show the world that the Dragon has been reborn, have armies rise up in his name, sent shockwaves through all of Randland;
- Be the ruler of a large and powerful nation.
No set-up for this in the previous 14 episodes and every important character for Rand has been cut: Lan, Thom, Ingtar and Hurin. Rand of The Shadow Rising is not going to be believable without these achievements so it is safe to assume that there will be none of book Rand in season 3 either.
Whoever said there were safety issues regarding collar use due to the possibility of It breaking the windpipe needs to learn not to spread silly myths. The windpipe is elastic and very hard to seriously damage. It requires 35 pounds of direct force to fracture tracheal cartilage.
You can find videos of people tanking punches to the throat even on platforms like youtube.
Collars can be a choking hazard and/or bad for the neck if janked etc, but the windpipe being broken or crushed? Nah. That would require some pretty intentional application of large amounts of force in a very, very particular way.
Thanks for pointing out that the writing in the show diminishes the achievements of the main characters. In book 2, we don't see much of Morraine, but by the end of it we find that the main plot threads of the book were driven by her meddling in the background. For example, Domon the captain, being in the city at all was due to her. Nynaeve is shown by the author to be uniquely gifted with magic even with the limitations of her needing to be angry to channel.
Egwene gets a lot of character development in the second book that affects her personality going forward. On a surface level, she goes from wanting to learn magic to be great to wanting to learn because she never wants to be caged again. She also loses some of her innocence and becomes much more aggressive in the use of the one power to defend herself and this has negative consequences in the next book. In addition, it is she who figures out the secret of how the adam works, through the conversations she had with Renna. This showed that even when it looked like she had given up, she was always looking for a way out, and that sometimes patience, and appearing to surrender leads to victory quicker than outwardly resisting a greater force.
Most importantly they are likely not going to show another badass moment for Rand(and Mat) that occurred at the end of book 2 like they did in book 1 and these moments and the events leading up to it are moments that are important for his growth as the Dragon, but also in fulfilling the prophecies whch are a central driving point in these early books.
STEREO! I can hear out of both ears, it worked! 😊
Lots of names in this category but the two names i hear pronounced wrong the most are Taim (tah-eem) and Gawyn (gow-win). Suian is definitely up there tho.
Absolutely they combined Lanfear and Semirhage, I've been saying that since e4 and any remaining doubt i had went out the window in the scene with Liandrin's son, that was 1000% Semirhage.
And quite frankly, i love it. This version of Lanfear is much more dangerous than either were on their own in the books and honestly scares the crap out of me going forward.
Wow, good call on Taim; I wasn't even familiar with that correct pronunciation. Gawyn is definitely GAH-wihn though; not sure if that's what you were trying to say. Interestingly enough, it looks like Galad is gah-LAHD, and not GAL-ed, which I think is how most people probably say it.
The one I most consistently see wrong, however, is Moiraine (mwah-RAINE). The show has adopted the wrong pronunciation, probably because people are so used to moy-raine that the correct way just sounds weird/bad.
Re: Egwene scenes, my take is they did wonderful showing the horror for her slavery, I would argue that it felt worse than in the books because so much of this was off page in the books, so it was sanitized. So good job to the show in that. My issue is the show has not done anything to make us care about Egwene at this point versus how she was devoped in the books. I feel these scenes are severely weakened as a result. If we truely cared about Egwene, these could have been tear inducing moments or severe anger, instead it felt more like a "These people are effed up!"
Your preamble was very confusing for me, since I've never noticed any issues with Audio while watching your videos this Season.
You sound Great.
And not just aurally. Your content is reasoned and reasonable. And most importantly, genuine... existing to inform and evaluate, rather than the agenda driven content that exists only to Praise or to Excoriate, respectively.
Thank You for your time and Effort!
Don't let the technology discourage you.
I think people using earphones were getting audio in one ear, I’m not so I didn’t notice it last time.
I watch channels that Praise and Excoriate the show too. It does provide a more broad overview of how things are going.
@@gilian2587 it was amusing to watch the Lovers & Haters thunder about in their respective blinkers, but it slowly becomes tiresome. If nothing else, at least this Season 2 has been consistently watchable.
@@gearomkologenas5458 I think I may be too close to the source material as it was originally written to be able to tolerate the show. To me, the show seems closer to a parody of the source material than a faithful adaptation.
@@gilian2587 YEAH… there’s very little good faith about adapting the books, still, despite some encouraging moments in Season 2.
Don’t know about parody. More like a contemporarily cocooned co-opting of established IP.
All the Ogier in the Seanchan are Deathwatch Guards tho, Loial isn’t a Deathwatch Guard. I have no idea how Loial would be treated, but it seems impossible someone of Suroth’s standing can treat Loial like property when the Empress doesn’t treat any Ogier like property.
Suroth probably has the options of asking Loial politely to leave, or she can treat him as an honored guest. Maybe Suroth can say the Empress would like to meet you, but she would be required to treat him with kid gloves even if she has to arrest him.
Yes, what they did is wrong for what we know of Ogier in Seanchan culture at a much later point in the series. BUT I doubt we will ever get to this level of detail in the show and even in the books, it isn't essential that the Deathwatch Guards are Ogier or that all Ogier are Deathwatch Guards. I still prefer the books but this a change I can tolerate in an adaptation.
So your saying that the people making this show don't understand the books and thier just making stuff up? No say it isn't so!
Interesting that you give the show a 6-7 and lament that it could have been a 9, those were verbatim my sentiments in regards to S1. I do think S2 is a SIGNIFICANT step up, more so if they're able to stick the landing. It at least reaches the threshold of "good TV" even if it isn't a masterpiece, which S1 simply didn't reach.
As I'm contemplating a fan edit of S2, I have two major thoughts:
1. It will necessarily be much longer than my S1 edit (4.5 hours) just cos there's that much more material and much of it is better.
2. I think the end product could be really really good on a level that the S1 fan edit could not reach due to the material I had to work with in 1e7 and 1e8. S2 could be cut into a properly fantastic two-part film simply by removing the dead weight and trimming some bad dialog so what's left is more compelling and makes more sense.
S1 is downgraded to a 5 or worse after the last two episodes and two years to think about it. But this is subjective.
Yeah like you said, it's entertaining but I wish they would have stuck to the book story.
They changed the collars to look like slave collars used in the Atlantic slave trade. They said that was what it was based off of. They gave no other reason why they changed it. Any other reasons given are all post hoc.
I have only have 2 problems with Egwene's breaking.
1) The show has already defined her as unbreakable so having her go through all of this gives her no real character arc. In the books she becomes independent and finds her iron.
2) The show kinda made Egwene an idiot. Yes it takes a while for her accept that she can't attack Renna. She should have tried to just leave. The show never showed that she can't be too far from the armguard. She never tried to attack her before the armguard was put on. She only tried to smash the collar. She never tried to channel to take it off. Every scene was her just her trying to hurt Renna.
Renna is monotone and stilted except when she makes Egwene burn the tree and beats her.
Moraine getting upset because her plan worked makes no sense. For me her acting there ruins any hint of daes dae'mar that could have been happening.
Yeah Mat is simply a guy who abandons his friends at every opportunity in this show, the exact opposite of his book character…
Agree 100%
What's the plot of this show? I see it as, Rand bangs a MILF, Lan joins a gay hippie commune, Morraine has disfunctional family and girls level up in superpowers. Reread the books and see how bad this show is. The writing is horrific.
The Suldam have to open the Adam without the ability to channel.
Yeah, if they have one they should be able to work it out without channeling. Good catch. In the books, Nyneave had to pop it off with the power but Egwene finds the clasp. She just can't open it.
@@amys0482 yeah, Mat figured out the clasp, some sort of pinch twist pull thing, but Nynaeve must be doing that with air, it’s not like it has a channel wind here here and here to open.
You know…. I think Renna makes a comment that implies it can be opened - but it might actually be stronger if it *cant* be removed (and Elayne/Nynaeve figure it out through healing) In seanchan culture - there should never be a reason to remove a collar. So a magic artifact that anyone can put around a channellers neck but no one can remove seems about ideal.
@@wotsummary302 I suppose death…
I really feel like someone in the writers room just desperately wants to ship warder fan fiction and as a result we keep getting weird warder moments that fuck with Lan's character and warder characters generally.
Hey Amy. It's good to hear you in stereo. I have a problem with windows from time to time that when it updates it changes my sound settings and I have to hunt down the switches and sliders and reset everything. I appreciate your take on the show and though I'm not a book reader, I do see that they make some choices that don't make sense or seem silly. I did enjoy the last episode though they seem to continually lock themselves in a particular location for a long time. I keep waiting the Eguane to be told 2+2=5. It appears that you have an affinity for classic Egyptian jewelry. Your necklaces look nice. I was a big fan of my Mythology studies. Anyway, hope you have a great time and we'll check out your review on the next episode.
The books are great. Give the audiobooks narrated by Rosamund Pike a try.
Audio is better!
I don't know which one is less likely... Lan being a darkfriend or Lan being threatened and caving in.
Rand tells Mat what happened at the Eye of the World, and at the end of their conversation as Mat is leaving to go back to talk to Min, Mat leans in and whispers to Rand, “Dragon Reborn.” So Mat knows who Rand is at this point in the TV story.
I agree with so much of your review. I think if you haven’t read the books the story is probably easier to buy into. I really am not a fan of the Lan storyline. I cannot believe that Lan would give up Rand as the Dragon Reborn so easily after he and Moraine made it their life to find and protect Rand. I also don’t like what they did to Moraine either. Why take away her power? Makes no sense.
Did I just totally space out and miss that? Maybe I was distracted by kittens? I'll have to rewatch it. I just remember them talking about the world not being better off without them and Mat saying he'll come with Rand and then not showing up.
Nyneave s behaviour in the hostile city was beyond stupid. This is supposed to be a wisdom of a community that has shown so much maturity for her age that the elders follow her lead. This is supposed to be a woman who has survived by her own wits after her parents were brutally murdered before being found. A woman that survived the trials of the arches and here she is being guided by a princess behaving as if she had no survivor skills at all. It was disappointing. I also don't agree on RP's acting interpretations of moraine this season. She was like an android. Her micro expressions were so microscopic it seemed like she forgot her lines. The pauses were overly long, over played.
This is just my view from a non reader of the books watching a pretty good fantasy show. A good script does not rely on viewers having read the books.
Having said that I'm impressed with the details of the story and the immersive quality of the show. It is quite good on the set and the physicality of the magical users use of hand and body movements.
I would really appreciate it if the writers could develop the male character arcs as deeply as they have focused on the female ones. I cannot get over the fact that this show cannot help itself from falling into the typical modern-day stereotyping of male actors' development. Perrin, Matt, and Rand's character arcs have been abysmal. The main female actors in this episode nailed it out of the park but can we start focusing on Perrin, Matt, and Rand so we can develop depth to their character arcs? The actors in this series are consistently carrying the poor writing and directing of this series. I hope that the last two episodes are truly able to expand on this episode and give gravitas to Rand, Matt, and Perrin. Up to this episode, the show is more about the Wheel of Time as seen through the female half of the power than the Dragon reborn. Rand, Matt, and Perrin have become an afterthought and have been written with modern-day male attributes.
Amy your dress and choker are so on theme , you look especially gorgeous and beautiful here.
This episode was probably the best of the series. MINUS THE RIDICULOUS Lan plotline.
As an avid book reader, I agree with almost all your points. I've had to "shut off" what I know and accept the "retelling" Which, by literally every IP recently, has had bad writers with political m otivations ruin most things. (One piece, which actually STAYED on source material per creator, is blowing away EVERYTHING. So maybe things will start to change)
FYI, waygate in Barthanes Manor. (Escape to Falme that way?)
Seems they retconned a ton of bad choices from S1 and act like it didn't happen. (Mat/ Woman burned out / etc) I actually can't blame them for continuity that way. This season caters a lot more to readers than S1 absolute about faces. I still think Moiraine with no power and Lan seperated is one of the WORST choices ever. That story is terrible. Even my non book reading friends ask me if it was that bad in the books....hehe.
Lastly, I really do not like how they handling Min. She was an amazing character in the books with her quirky cynicism and upbeat moments. Right now they write her as the worst of both. However, I see how they are slowly gonna bring them together in Falme and we might get ourselves some really good moments to end the season. I'm enjoying the world on screen enough to watch even if it's bad but it's definately 100x better than S1 (Well after the 1st two episodes honeymoon which basically, all us book readers were just happy to see it LIVE on screen before we re-watched and starting tearing it apart, lol)
What, you were 11 forty years ago? Are you Aes Sedai?
I wondered, too, before rewinding the video twice and realizing that she'd said "thirty" rather than "forty." I'm still not sure, though, that she's not magical. 🙂
😉
I found the Lanfear dream scene kind of lame. I get what theyre doing with her characters but I wish they wouldn't undermine how dangerous she is by showing audiences she'll never harm Rand. The fact that he's chained to the wheel (great thematic visual) but then she instantly lets him go was really lame. I think given the wheel, it wouldve been a good time for her to have a chat about how Rand is essentially helpless to fate and has no choice in his future, and she should've continued to be menacing before eventually unlocking him later and she "broke him"
That sounds more like ishy. Lanfear should be trying to convince Rand to partner with her for some greater glory.
That whole scene was the actor showing his abs.
@@DanWheeler9000 I appreciated the eye candy. He's hot
Without spoiling anything, I can see the situation where Min's vision of Mat killing Rand can happen.. It is not in the book but I can envision how it could come about.
I can too. The question is why does Min think she can prevent this from happening?
The problem with them adding this (completely unnecessary) is that it once again turns into Mat ditching his friends. We've already been through this last season. Why are we doing it again? Mat's best moments have been with the other characters (him and Rand were great here). He needs to grow and develop his character and he's not doing that having literally no role. It's also 100% opposite from the books where Mat is TRYING to escape responsibility yet things always pulling him TOWARD important things and going on his quests. They flipped it where he wants to go, and for dumb reasons they make it where he can't. That makes Mat not Mat.
Plese spoil me with your speculations !!!
@@amys0482 someone pointed out that Min’s first vision didn’t come true either, so the show is setting up that the visions may not come true.
@@jsbrads1 ugh
So most changes they have made is to speed up the plot. Nynaeve and Egwene had trained in the tower in the books, in the show they pretty much leave instantly, so its more believeable that they make mistakes and it also gives them an arc to why they start to respect aes sedais in the first place. However showing the gradual respect Nynaeve gets for aes sedai is extremely important. She now seen healing as well as sacrifice for another sister. These two events make Nyn understand she wants to become a sister, not that she has to. Moiraine is not an aes sedai at least she doesnt think so any longer in the show, she thinks she is stilled and tries desperately to protect Rand anyways. It is of course different but still in character for her.
I will say, seeing Rima use her healing weaves for combat was reallt fucking cool. It was super cool.
Also, wdym, she did explain where she got the collar and bracer???
maybe I just missed it? where did she get them?
For me every single Seline's line in the show was 5 x better than anything in the book ... I remember reading it back then and thinking that sounded as if it was written by a 5-year-old child ... she used to say things that were so over the top either needy or pushy, she kinda used lines that Vilans in cartoons for little kids use ! The best ones are when she goes on about the horn: let me touch it, I want to hold it ... I want that on T-shirt with Lanfear Image in that dominatrix outfit lol
She's a narcissist, which by definition is emotionally immature. How she talked was accurate to me.
Honestly, you're being far too nice. Let one of us with less of a filter lay it out... real simple:
This show sucks. It's an affront to all of the work RJ ever did.
Another excellent review - it left me with almost nothing to say - and the episode itself, except where it sagged in the middle (too many dream sequences, for one thing - an ongoing problem), was pretty impressive. I was particularly gratified by the climax, in which the scenes of Egwene's capitulation were interleaved, to effective music, with those of the Aes Sedai's capture. That was true cinematic art.
I'd quibble about the purpose in the death of Liandrin's son - to me, it made sense as her final break with humanity. (As an aside, Kate Fleetwood, who plays Liandrin, was raised in Arden near Stratford-upon-Avon, joined as a child actor the Royal Shakespeare Company, and earned a Tony nomination by playing Lady Macbeth - I'm sensing a pattern here. 🙂And she was also the "First Order Officer" in STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - I seem to remember her, if nothing else, from that ridiculous masque. 🙂)
Especially by pointing out the folly of Nynaeve and Elayne not fleeing while the Aes Sedai sacrificed herself for them - a folly which, I freely admit, didn't strike me while watching the show - you've helped me put my finger on why I watch distantly, without the suspense with which, against my will - because I dislike dark fantasy - GoT gripped me. WoT has too many shoehorned CW moments - there's frequently no stakes. These are YA friends who'll risk life and limb for one another no matter what the odds, and so far without realistic consequences. Instead of being thrilled, I chuckled at hearing first Nynaeve and then Elayne stubbornly declaring, without a second thought, that they wouldn't flee despite their extraordinarily perilous circumstances.
Also, is it my fault, or that of the books, that I still can't type the name of any character or place without referring to IMDb? If the books are the culprit, then it says something about the world-building - a failing exacerbated by the show's diversity hiring. (Tellingly, I think, Wikipedia's episode synopses, presumably written by fans of the lore, are marred with errors.)
If you have read much fantasy you would find this is normal because they make up many of the names based on it being in a different world. It would also be an issue if you read a lot of foreign translated books from a culture that is not derived from your own. I am now very familiar with Indian names but Chinese, Korea, what is considered Asian, I have a terrible time with.
@@kirielbranson4843 Apart from the older epics and myths and fables, I haven't read any fantasy except for Robert Howard's Conan books and LOTR, the latter of which spoiled everything else for me. But that's not the problem.
The problem is the homogeneity of Jordan's world despite its overwhelming and unnecessary detail. Unlike Jordan - whom I've always considered a risible hack after sampling his Conan pastiches - Tolkien was a historian and linguist who knew how to write with economy and precision while creating a variegated world with a historically realistic ebb and flow of culture, including language. It's as easy to distinguish Elvish from Orkish, for example, as it is to distinguish between widely separated real-world languages. You immediately know something - a good deal - about anything in Tolkien from its name alone.
Whereas everyone and everything and everywhere in the WOT books seems to have a name based loosely on Middle English, all blending together in an unmemorable mess - and this, as I say, arises from the dullness of Jordan's world, the basic premise of which is that, after the breaking, a more or less monotone culture arose under the guidance of the Aes Sedai. It's bad fantasy because it's not fantastic - it lacks even the second-rate color of which Howard, an autodidact writer of pulp (some of it very good pulp), was capable.
My problem was always with just how badly the show is written. It is just embarrassing at this point.
I still think ace-sed-eye and was shocked when others pronounced it differently.
How is there any tension in the Ryma fight? The show established in ep 8 of last season and ep 1 of this season that Egewene and Nyneave are unimaginably powerful conduits for the One Power... And Elayne herself seems to be fairly powerful.
Why would Ryma Sedai not link with the girls and destroy all the Seanchan trying to harm them? It wouldn't violate the oaths; it would be in their defense... And If a mere accepted can lead a circle that can kill 10,000 Trollocs, what could a full sister do?
And if Ryma doesn't know she has a god in her presence who can easily solve their problems, why doesn't Nyneave, the one who brought this situation down on their heads, suggest linking?
The show seems too content to try to forget its massive failings in season 1, from killing off four characters (Who are alive in this season) to its characters becoming gods; I will not.
In the hands of a solid writing team, that little thing would be explained as Nynaeve and Egwene actively being AFRAID of linking after the last experience, and their hesitation costing lives.
@@DrakeBarrowPossibly, but in the hands of a solid writing team, they would have never allowed two of our protagonists at the lowest point in their journey to competency to destroy an army without any help but the power they had in themselves.
After you become the cause of the destruction of an army of Trollocs merely from being a battery, there is nowhere but up.
That said if they had from the outset heavily traumatized both Egewene and Nyneave and explicitly chosen to give them both blocks that made it impossible to channel in stressful situations and held to that restriction, maybe, just maybe, the writers could convince you these gods are in danger.
@@constrainedanacronysm1370 It's like modern Star Wars - the powers are so enormous that they break everything except when they prevent Rey from levitating out of "quicksand" flowing into a cave. It's stupid and nothing like Tolkien's meticulously consistent world. But what I wondered was why Ryma, who feared capture more than death, didn't fall on a concealed dagger or the spear poking from her warder.
@@waltergold3457The answer to your last point is for drama.
It's all for drama; the girls can't link and blow up the Seanchan because it would cause less drama, and Ryma needs to have less character agency in preventing herself from being captured because of drama.
They don't care about their world rules or characters. They only care about manufacturing "wow moments" and moving on to the next wow moment before you have time to think about too much.
Can someone who read the books explain 2 things to me.
1. Isn't the dragon reborn supposed to be able to channel without going mad?
If the Dragon Reborn goes mad when he channels like any other man, then what is the point of waiting for him to be re born? If he goes mad then he is not a reliable force.
2. Why doesn't Ishameal go mad?
He channels all the time and he is a man; he should be mad. Is it because he is evil? Then other male channels should be fine if they go evil. The whole thing just seems so inconsistent.
1. No. The Dragon Reborn is the one prophesied to face the Dark One and is also prophesied to "break the world" again. As a man who can channel, he WILL go mad. This is the central conflict in the books and why it sucks to be the Chosen One.
2. The Forsaken are shielded from the Taint. In the books, "men" don't make the Power filthy. The Dark One taints the male half of the True Source but there is a workaround for darkfriends.
The show has underexplained or changed fundamentals so I am not sure how it works in the show. I suspect it does not make sense.
@@amys0482 - Thanks for responding. I've been watching the show since the beginning because I'm starving for high fantasy, but to date it has not articulated any real threat that makes sense. The only reason I know who the Dark One is is from watching your videos and others.
I understand what you say but it still seems like a contradictory premise. So the Dragon Reborn has the power to defeat the Dark One, but he doesn't have the power to prevent the Dark One from driving him crazy? Someone who is strong enough to have even a 1% chance of defeating the Dark One must be strong enough to defend his own sanity from him.
If he can not protect himself from the Dark One how he protect anyone else from him? What chance does a crazy man have of saving the world? If he can not correct the taint on male channelers then how exactly can he save the world even if does not go crazy?
This is not adding up. There must be something left out, something they not not telling us.
@@darriuscole8544 The Dark One is an other worldly being whose ultimate nature isn't revealed until the last book. But The Dragon was the champion of the Light in the Age of Legends and fought the Shadow, including all of the Forsaken. The Dragon, Lews Therrin, was a great hero. He tries to seal the bore to the Dark One's prison with the Power but the women refuse to help. As a result, the Dark One is not fully sealed and his counterstrike taints the male half of the Power. This caused all male channelers to go mad but it isn't instant. It can take years. When the Dragon is Reborn, there is a ticking clock. He has to unite the nations against the Dark One, prepare for the Last Battle, fulfill the prophesies and face the Dark One BEFORE he can go mad and break the world.
This conflict makes sense in the books. For example, Logain isn't mad in the books. The books are great. If you like high fantasy, I suggest giving them a try. The narration by Rosamund Pike is fantastic.
@@amys0482 Who says that a madman can't fulfill prophecy? Fulfilling prophecy whilst half crackers is quite the unenviable superpower.
This season is better in that it is designed for more "cool things" happening that are cinematic and I agree with the video it is kind of like modern star wars, or latter season Game of Thrones, in that you cannot think about it too long or it does not make much sense. The Sedai sacrificing herself and being captured, "looked cool" and was compelling in the moment, but literally everything about it made little sense, to channeling knowing they would be caught, to not at least trying to run away, from Nynaeve and her friend not running and standing there, to a full on Sedai letting herself be captured, when it would be much worse for the Seanchen to have her than protecting two novices.
And this season also "works" when better when you do not compare some things to last season. They made a really big deal that Aes Sedai were super powerful, and even novices like Nynaeve took down huge armies, but now a Sedai cannot seem to beat a squad to soldiers and even powerful Sedai seem easily captured. As the video said, the book more accurately at least explained this in describing how many Seanchen had to die to even get one of them.
But having real stakes and sticking to more of at least the "flavor" of the books and dropping the eye-rolling virtue signaling of the first season has made this season just soo much more watchable where you can at least watch this show and maybe just complain about some book inconsistencies and nitpick a little like here, rather than it being almost kind of hateful to the book readers because of some agenda. I am sure Amazon ordered this after Rings of Power also failed, and it is a very welcome change.
Perhaps Amazon is trying to "quiet the noise." To which I reply, "What noise?" There's no noise. It's all in the mind's ear of a hateful fandom. 🙂
@@waltergold3457 There is a lot of noise because their properties were all bombs. There is no "hateful fandom". There are fans rightfully upset that they are destroying their favorite movies books and shows with pointless virtue signaling then being gaslight by people like you who make it seem like they are the one that are wrong, when they were not the ones that changed the story. Your gaslighting factually failed because every platform and movie and running from far left pandering like they are on fire.
@@bobross1829 You have no appreciation for irony, Bob. I was referencing Disney CEO Bob Iger's recent comments, which put the lie to everything which his woke corporation has been saying - and denying - for the last seven years.
@@waltergold3457 If I misread it, I apologize
@@bobross1829 No need. 🙂
The biggest flaw in the episode to me is that when I read the arc where egwene is captured by the seanchean, it felt so cold and dehumanizing. In the show they gave it the over-the-top YA dramatic acting. It's almost like missing the mark in a similar way to "the room", and it usually tells me that either those involved in production don't understand the nuances of emotion and interaction, or they assume you have to spell it out for the audience like they are five years old. I think in this case it's the former.
To me it was the physical violence. In the books the Suldam and NOT physically violent.All the 'training' and punishment is done through the A'Dam with the Suldam standing there being 'disappointed'.
Everything in the show is over the top. It can be both... that they don't understand nuance AND think no one else can.
Renna's acting was a hard pill to swallow for me, she grew on me after awhile, but she was spoiling Madeleine's performance for me in the beginning. Either she grew on me, or Mad's performance just burned so bright i forgot about Renna, b/c she stopped annoying me after she kicked Egwene for failing the pitcher test. Admittedly a petty gripe, b/c for the most part they nailed that dynamic. The blue sitter comment at the end, "you lasted longer than me, and im a sitter!" also spoiled all the good. You're a sitter? So effing what? This show hasn't established sitters in anyway to give that notion any weight, it's laughable. Its even laughable in the books, when you get to the point in books where you realize just how pompous, arrogant and narcissistic most aes sadai, especially sitters, are. Ryma's surgical strikes on the 2 sul'dame were cool as hell, but at the same time, dumb as doo. They just stood around waiting to get wrecked...Those 3 Sul'dame/damane should've had Ryma shielded with ease, and I worry about channeler vs channeler fights to come. We never saw a wide angle of Ryma and Sul'dame weaving at each other, slicing weaves off, etc. Disappointing. I LOVE Donal Finn, as much as I hate how they've contorted Mat's character. Actually i love him more, b/c he's making me get excited about Mat's new arc, I was really bummed when Barny left the production, b/c I liked the actor, but I think we actually got a blessing disguise. Donal fits my mental picture of Mat better and acts the part just as well if not better. Right on, right on, right on about Liandrin, SO dumb! You build her up as this sympathetic villain hinged on her motherly love, just to have Lanfear smother him? Her only reason for allegiance to the dark one, so now she's probably going to be a double agent on a redemption arc, so friggin lame. Dont get me started on Lan, i just got rid of the puke taste in my mouth, and dont have any more mouth wash. Lan is SOOO wrong! This is the man that gave Rand instruction and guidance to prepare him before audience w/ the Amyrlin, so that he had something to stand on, however weak. He wouldn't serve Rand up to the Aes Sedai so easily. I thought it strange that Lan would ever take the script, doubly strange that Alanna's warder's would be going thru lan's possessions, and their assumption that Lan is a dark friend is even further out of character for them all, but hey, the heavy handed 3some scenes finally paid off, cause I definitely didnt see that rouse coming.
Rand, Mat, and Perrin have been poorly developed or not developed at all. I think this is possible only because they have no confidence that they will get the seasons to tell the story. Self fulfilling likely. Min is also mis-cast and going no where.
Min... short for minimized?
Amy I think your reviews are great. People can take a joke.
The trainer in the show is from the books but not Renna. Ryma is a different character.
Edit: I got this one wrong. Conflated three characters.
The sul'dam played by Xelia Mendes-Jones? Casting says Renna. Confused by your comment. They do change names sometimes for no reason (like Alanna's warders) so maybe I missed it, but I thought she was Renna.
@@amys0482 No issues admitting when I am wrong. I was confusing 3 characters. Ryma is the yellow. The characters name is Renna but (and I am going to need to re-read Winters Heart) the character is actually another sul'dam entirely (or at least that is how it appears to me). When I find the Sul'dam the character is based on I will post the update.
@@alananimus9145 It is Egwene's old sul'dam that ends up with Mat along with Seta (sp?) who Nyneave captures and leaves with Renna. Bethamin finds them later, whom Egeanin captures and then releases after meeting Elayne and Nyneave. All end up with Mat.
@@amys0482 renna is one but there are several sul'dam in winters heart.
@@alananimus9145 The ones that end up with Mat are these same three that know the sul'dam secret.
Dont you react to the episodes?
I liked the moment Mat hugs Rand, but he looked too old.
I don't like the facial hair on him.
I found this episode really boring. Rand's scenes was okay, but unfortunately the show is not about the dragon reborn. Edit: 2/10
Someone mentioned the Amyrlin went to Camlyn.
Yeah, she just seems to be getting around really fast in that horse drawn carriage
So re liandrin starved and wed before you bled. Do you still believe that they aren't shoehorning real world conflicts into RJs world?
It felt like the episode did a reasonable job of Ryma talking about hiding the channeling. She explicitly called out only a trickle, not doing it when suldam were around. Noting a potential change from the books - she highlighted that if any one of them did too much they would be spotted - hence why they needed all 3 (and when nynaeve didn’t have the fine control needed - they were found). I’m pretty sure we see book scenes where people sense channeling in aggregate - but I thought it covered the keeping it secret from the seanchan part fine. (You also said something about how finding the Adam wasn’t explained - but I thought highlighting two dead and one captured AS explained enough)
Agree completely about the lack of agency. Hopefully that can change.
On Lan - one possible interpretation of his actions is not a betrayal of Moiraine’s mission but a rejection of her methods. Moiraine is constantly keeping things secret (even from him). That might be an interesting direction.
Your final words are basically tell me you are a bookcloak without admitting you are a bookcloak. You are the classic example of this. However saying this is a 6 or 7 out of 10 is fine, that is a reasonable overall take even though I think season 2 is a small step up from that.
If bookcloak means I think the books are better than the TV show and they should have taken more from the books, then I am a bookcloak, but that is a really low standard for an adaptation and not the puritanical view that that term implies.
Mat is not different from the book Mat, he is different from your reading of Mat in the books. Min I will grant you is an entirely novel portrayal but I personally am liking it. If they actually make her a dark friend I will have problems.
You think Mat from the books was born poor to drunk, abusive parents and is a thief destined for the dark?
@@amys0482 This is why media literacy is so important. If someone told me pre-dagger Mat was born poor and to a family of drunk and abusive parents that would not surprise me in the least given the behavior he demonstrates in the first couple of chapters. We know nothing of his family life. His father is a horse trader. Think about the opening depiction of the two rivers as a small isolated village. How successful of a horse trader can he really be?
Book 1 Mat pre-dagger is not a trickster he's a monster. The whole honey badger "gag" makes me psychically angry every time I read it. Having grown up in the country with honey badgers... No. The show portrayal of his home life is one valid explanation for his behavior. Yes that is absolutely a valid interpretation.
Mind you I am not saying you have to accept my or the shows interpretation of pre-dagger (or in my case pre-flicker) Mat as monster. Part of criticism is being able to engage with alternative interpretations. No the show Mat is not "your Mat" but he is a Mat that is consistent with some readings (a reading I share).
What needs to be kept in mind is that we (the reader) are doing all the heavy lifting. And our interpretation of the character is going to be heavily influenced by our own experiences and knowledge.
@@alananimus9145 My media literacy is fine, thank you. Book 1 Mat is not a monster. The badger was a prank in poor taste but it's not a honey badger. I don't even think it's an American style badger. It's probably an English style badger, which is still a wild animal that can hurt someone if threatened and cornered but it's not as aggressive and terrifying as you make it sound. It would just run away. An editor might have recommended a possum or something instead, or done away with that line altogether because animal cruelty is unpleasant, but "monster" is still a reach. I think "immature" was the intent.