Matt Redman Talks About Mike Pilavachi Abuse
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Matt Redman talks about what Mike Pilavachi did to him during his time at Soul Survivor.
Matt Redman video link: • Let There Be Light
Article links:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023...
Help for abuse survivors:
thirtyoneeight.org/
safespacesenglandandwales.org...
www.netgrace.org/
www.churchofengland.org/safeg...
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It has been like this in the church for years and it’s the same pattern over and over again the people who are victims report it and are ignored. I am tired of hearing the phrase.” this must never happen again.” Because it keeps happening. Nobody in leadership in the established church seems willing to learn lessons and actually walk as Jesus calls us to walk
This has brought me to tears - The hurt those poor young lives have faced, people's faith and lives destroyed, someone representing Jesus behaving in this way, is sickening to the very core. This is from the very pit of hell. My prayers go out to those who suffered. I hope and pray, that I am not stood next to those who abused and those who took no action at the day of judgement. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Bless you and your ministry.
Which hurt? Did Mike engage in any sexual activity with the youths? Wrestling and massaging are not sexual activities. May be inappropriate or stupid but not sexual. Massaging goes with vigorous exercises. Wrestling is a vigorous exercise.
Watched it earlier today. So sad. Beyond upsetting just how many others have been impacted who haven’t come forward.
Thank you, Rev Dan.
I was spiritually abused by a supposed “Bible teacher” for 4 years. I identified with so much on the video as shared by Matt and Beth, and wept both with and for them. It was triggering for me, but I needed to see it. It is a long journey out of abuse, and I’m still on mine.
I was interested to see Dr. Diane Langberg on the video. She spoke at a conference on
spiritual abuse at All Souls Langham Place several years ago, and she prayed for and counselled me, a step along my journey out of abuse.
Sorry to hear what u have shared. I just prayed for you. Be secure like ur name tag... @Psalm125v1, Mount Zion in Jesus' Holy name. Well dun!!!🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Thank you. 🙏🏼♥️🙏🏼
I watched it too. I used to attend although i never spoke to leaders as it was a large congregation. I am really saddened by this. We must do better as the church at safeguarding.
WE ALWAYS HEAR THAT THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN AGAIN AND THE LESSONS NEED TO BE LEARNED BUT VERY SADLY THIS HAPPENS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THIS DEPRESSING CYCLE IS NEVER BROKEN ! ! !
Here’s a simple rule of thumb. Never idolize men, it never works out well!!!
Unfortunately, it /will/ happen again. Wherever thre are people, there will be abuse of power - from small and relatively innocent pressure on people, to large and abusive. The more powerful the leader, the more we should watch them carefully. I wholeheartedly agree with Diane Langerg in the video that there should be regular teaching in churches about how to recognise abuse and what to do about it. We need to proactively ask questions about what makes us feel uncomfortable in church groups - and investigate any issues.
Agreed.
Too many 'names' in the church, and too many adults are obsessed with following them. This cult then sets a bad example to young followers who in turn fall under their spell because others worship these Christian celebrities. There should be one Name.
Very right. That is the problem. Paul saw this problem among the Corinthians - an obsession with super Apostles, etc. In 1 Corinthians 3, he asks, "What (NOT who) is Paul?". "Merely servants through whom you believed."
Why is it that so few Christians who would claim to be filled with the Spirit ever seem receive a word of knowledge or gift of discerning of spirits or prophecy in the sense of disclosing the secrets of men's hearts in cases like this?
Like the Ravi case abuse was going on for years and almost no-one noticed it.
I'm not saying teaching about the way abusers operate is made redundant by this, both approaches are necessary.
Perhaps too much 'this is not for today' is abroad amongst evangelicals, so no-one asks and no-one receives.
I'm convinced God doesn't want us to be deceived and will equip us accordingly.
Obviously not…(in reply to the last paragraph)
You say the senior people in Soul Survivor used to talk about the "Pilli boys" or "Mike's boys" - this means they knew what was happening, and did nothing. Disgraceful! They must all be investigated.
i lived with an abuser for 12 years and can guarantee it’s not as easy as it seems to report, to come out and to leave an abusive relationship. Be more sensible with these people trying to share their pain and struggle
@@quekrt5381 I'm talking about the people in senior positions who knew it was happening - not the victims. It was dreadful for them.
Spiritual abuse is endemic. Had a terrible experience myself at a baptist church. Honestly in hindsight “safeguarding” is a traumatic waste of time. It’s a facade. Everybody in leadership, including the the safeguarding team, at a spiritually abusive church has already been hand picked and groomed by a spiritually abusive leader that it’s inevitable their response is “it’s just Mike”. This was the exact same phase we heard time and time again.
A book called “The Bully pulpit” by Michael Kruger laid out precisely what happened to us. I hope and pray that church leaders learn from these experiences and the church grows in courage to speak out against it.
The warning of being a “gossip” and quoting of Matthew 18 - “you should come to me first” should be red flags!
It is endemic, I agree with you. What we have seen is just the tip of the iceberg, imo.
The other red flag phrase used to cover up abuse is "touch not the Lord's anointed"...
@@Drawn-From-The-Word With its inbuilt assumption as to just who 'the Lord's anointed' are!
If you are being abused, go to the police. Do not go to the church. Go to the police. They will listen and they will act.
The church will tell you to chuff off. Go to the police.
Right, what happened to Matt Redman when he was 13 and being “counselled” by Mike was mental abuse. No therapist asks the victim for details of sexual abuse. Only the police do to bring a case based on facts. No therapist ever asks for details.
A therapist will hold your hand if you want them to or hug you if you have previously said this is what you want and have an agreement about. No therapist will wrestle you. There is a provision in uk law that a therapist can have sex with the client as long as the therapist can stand up in court and prove how having sex has benefited the client. But in reality, that is a theory and it is an absolute no no. No contact apart from holding a hand or hugging for a short period of time.
Mike sexually abused Matt when Matt was a child.
When Matt became an adult, he didn’t have to stick around. When Mike was bullying Matt and his wife, Matt and Beth could have left at any time. They chose to stay. The cynic in me is Matt and Beth were sticking with the money tree. The money tree is highly important to Christian celebrities. Vicky Beeching is a clear example of doing anything for the money tree. Principles, health and truth go out the window.
Matt could have reported Mike to the police at any point for the sexual and mental abuse from his teenage years. Instead, Matt and his wife Beth have stayed silent for over 22 years. They went to the church to complain 22 years ago. They were told to chuff off. They should have gone to the police. Matt should have gone to the police as soon as he turned 18. Why did he not go to the police? Why have they still not gone to the police? We are talking sexual abuse. Why have they still not gone to the police?
Tim Hughes has not gone to the police in the last 20 years since he broke away from Mike. Why?
As for the young males who were all over 16 when they entered pseudo sexual relationships with Mike, they were not abused. They were over the age of consent and they kept going back for more. They went back and went back willingly. That is not abuse. That is a relationship.
Like it or not, adults make stupid decisions. It is not abuse. It is stupid decisions.
As a Christian with same sex attraction, I have seen it many times that people in a pseudo same sex relationship have claimed they were abused or their Christian parents claim their innocent darling was abused. No. They are over the age of consent and have chosen a same sex partner.
No, bullying from church and choosing a pseudo same sex relationship does not cause ptsd. Can we stop equating people’s poor choices with someone having their legs blown off under enemy fire?
I have been bullied in churches. I left. I am same sex attracted. Whenever any female in any church has tried to get with me, including one leader, I am the one who went to church leadership, and yes, I am the one who was bullied to remain silent. I did not remain silent and I left every single time within the week. Most of these women claim to be straight or claim to be in love with their husband while telling me they find him boring etc. None are ever honest and say what they really said or did to me such as grabbing me without my consent and not letting go when I told them to. None are honest about being same sex attracted and none are honest about their conduct towards me.
I left church every single time. Within days. I went to leadership. Leadership blamed me or tried to cover it up. I left within days.
Why has it taken all of these people over 20 years to say anything? They are all big names. And it has taken them 20 years to say something. There is much more going on behind the scenes. It does not take 20 years to speak up on church bullying. It takes seconds. It takes hours to finish speaking with the police.
The young men, many of whom were over 18, some in their 20s, made bad choices. Plenty of straight men aged 18 get with older women for whatever reasons. They never claim they have been abused.
The men, the interns, are claiming they were abused because
A) they don’t want people to know they have same sex attraction because they will face all the homophobia I face and
B) they are embarrassed about being sexual with a morbidly obese pensioner.
Going back for more for months or even years is a relationship, not abuse.
I have been in churches where there was spiritual abuse. I have been hit on by women. Every single time, I told them to bugger off. Every single time.
Why? Because I did not want a same sex relationship because Jesus is the centre of my life. Also, obese boring women 20 years my senior are not my thing. Call me picky.
As a gay Christian who centres Christ, I can see through why people stuck around. They were same sex attracted, they wanted to be around the month and the fame and they wanted some things to continue. That is why they stuck around, that is why none ever went to the police in FORTY YEARS and they still have not gone to the police.
When someone is held down and they are saying no or they have frozen and things are done to them, that is abuse. That is rape. When someone runs away and never chooses to go near that person again, that is because they have been abused or raped. Children abused by family members have no choice. They are trapped in that home with those people. I have met hundreds. That is sexual abuse, that is rape.
What happened to Matt Redman as a teenager was sexual abuse. He was a child. He was not able to make decisions about who has access to his body. He was a child.
Adults who go back time after time are in a relationship, whether they want to classify it as a relationship or not. It is not abuse if an adult chooses to go back time after time. As a gay Christian, I have seen this over and over in same sex attracted Christians who do not want to be seen as being in a gay relationship because then they are disobeying God, but that is the reality.
Money and fame have had a lot to play in this story.
Choosing to go back for years, choosing to engage in physical activity for years is a relationship.
Let’s stop minimising what happened to Matt Reddman and so many other children. Stop calling consensual relationships abuse. They are not.
I agree that “money & fame” kept them tied to MP. Also, it was noticeable to me that none of the young men said that they wanted to learn about Jesus! Their motives were fame/recogntion/advancement in ministry/money👍🏾🤷🏾♀🇬🇧
I am yet to see any sin committed by MP. Was he ignorant about counselling? Definitely. Did he have personality flaws such being controlling, jealous, etc? Yes and many of us do. Where is the sexual sin? If this is the whole story, people are making a mountain out of a mould. I can’t see any sin and no police can charge him of any offence. PV has been presented as a sex mollester of young boys without any evidence. Someone has even compared him with Ravi Zachary. This is wrong. I don’t know MP and have never seen him apart from watching him on tv. I am not defending him but things should be done proportionally.
You are showing your ignorance about grooming for SA. Views like yours are why SA can happen within the church.
@@faygal2 There is no evidence of grooming here. From the information that are in the open, there is no grooming. I am a doctor and a Christian. I know about grooming. All I can see is that MP is domineering, a lot of people are, I read about what Redman and his wife said. There was nothing sexual there. I noted that MP was attention seeking but no hanging offence from what they said. He was a counselling quack but it was clear that he meant to do good. Let us not make a mountain out of a mould. If there is evidence of sex abuse, the police would be involved. He dashed the hopes of some young men by making promises that he could not keep. Many are guilty of similar things. Show me enough evidence of grooming or sex abuse and I will be the first to criticise MP. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
@@Sam-xm8vg I am a Mental Health practitioner who has worked with young people who have been sexually abused, so I know what I am talking about. Things are not clear cut with SA. SA does not only involve performing sexual acts on people, it is also about its purpose for the instigator. So if straddling someone while massaging them makes them aroused, then that is sexual abuse. What you are doing is minimising what happened, which is what abusers do to try to justify what they have done.
I heard him preach in a Christchurch, New Zealand Pentecostal church. I hope that there will be justice for the victims.
DISGUSTING THAT THIS ABUSE HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SO LONG & WHY DIDN'T PEOPLE GO TO THE POLICE SOONER ? ? ?
WE 'TRUE' BROTHERS & SISTERS IN CHRIST MUST BE ON OUR GUARD AT ALL TIMES BECAUSE SATAN IS IN OUR MIDST & WALKS AMONG US ! ! !
VERY SADLY SATAN ALSO COMES TO CHURCH ! ! !
Let us not lean on our own understanding but let God reveal his understanding of this.. Christian or not we are all sinners I pray for them all! I pray that God heals them❤️🙏
150 MEN ABUSED ! ! ! WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN THAT WERE ABUSED & WHY ISN'T THIS BEING TALKED ABOUT ? ? ?
This is all very sad, and I echo the call for the church to repent. I have heard the term here 'performing' worship leader'! This is not based on the principle of worship in the Bible. The worship leader has an awesome responsibility, this is not to focus on themselves, or their set, but to draw the worshipers focus onto God /Jesus. We learnt lots about this in the renewal of the 1970s Hebrews 9 shows us the principle. We need to return to basics of waiting on God.
SATAN WALKS AMONG US ! ! !
I went to soul survivor for 5 years in a row and had the best time of my younger life it’s a shame the guy who everyone liked and the guy who actually saved me and I became Christian has done what he done
So so sad. But they won't have the last say. God will🙏🏽🙌🏼... I hope everyone that has been abused will remember that they are not 'mikes children' but they belong to God!!!🙌🏽 They are God's children🙏🏼🙏🏽🙏🏾
Leaders in the Churches need to be prayed for because they are the tip of the spear, evangelically. Even the AoC! But, equally, they need to be prayed for if they they are needing removing. I would rather they do so voluntarily that be left wide-open to vilification and worse if G-d is ignored by them.
Pilavachi, and others, may repent but there are consequences, especially for those given spiritual authority and don't stop their behaviour. Who of us has not been attacked, lied to or seduced by the Enemy at one level or another? No me. Nor you, dear reader.
This *does not* absent Pilavachi's responsibility or actions in this, but this highlights that we are to self-examine and listen to the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit in our hearts of "Go neither to the left nor the right: this the way. Take it.".
Leaders, reread what Paul wrote to Timothy concerning being such a church leader. You *will* be more stringently judged by the Lord that the rest of us.
For some people it is a case of being tough and dealing with it personally and in the context of the Church - biblically. I think the links with Public and Boading schools, also orphanages needs to be investigated.
The moment I realised he was a fraud:
Me: "Where does it say to wait till marriage and not wank"
Mike: "I don't know but it's there somewhere"
I remember going to Soul Survivor one year and there was lots of "healing" going on. People with "back backs" etc magically being healed all of a sudden and they were coming to the front to speak of the healing and give proof to God's healing power.
There was someone in my group who had genuine chronic knee pain and it was really debilitating him, he couldn't play football anymore and was really depressed. Trying to show faith as small as a mustard seed, I prayed with my group for healing for him.
Nothing happened.
I looked around at people around me and there were other groups as well who looked downbeat for whatever reason. I got a feeling there were others feeling as though they weren't being healed.
So I went to the front (I was like 15 years old) and asked a steward to get a message to Mike, to ask him to provide words of comfort for those who feel like they were not being healed. I said "I felt like God compelled me to come forward and say this".
Before I knew it, I was hauled in front of Mike as a worship song was going on, and told him my message.
He nodded and thanked me.
His next act after the music was over, was to end the meeting and praise God for the healing, with no mention of what I had just said..
The people that this has been reported to be held to account. They need to repent and seek forgiveness.
They are as guilty as the individual that carried out the crime
No gift of discernment
LET EVERYMAN BE A LIAR AND LET GOD BE TRUE ! ! !
GOD IS CALLING TIME ON ALL THESE CORRUPTED PASTORS BUT SADLY THE DAMAGE IS ALREADY DONE ! ! !
Hi Rev Dan. I've subscribed to your channel. The thing that bothers me about this whole situation, is that people who aren't Christians will potentially have even more 'ammunition' for want of a better word, to throw at Christians. We are all aware of some (not all) Catholic Priests who are guilty of abuse, but now even a Charismatic Evangelical 'Christian' is guilty of it. As if we need more bad things happening in the Church!
Which I believe is the point of all this evil
Seems like we do need the final outcome of the investigation work before we draw conclusions. I have so many unanswered questions about it all.
Listen to the premier radio podcast : soul survivor - it superbly done. The investigation is over.
@@AnnJa-jw8ch Rev Dan says that the full investigation is not complete
MIKE PILAVACHI WASN'T 'THE SOLE SURVIVOR' IN THE END ! ! !
When did the redmana come forward. Seems many years after. Hope I'm wrong.so many voiceless young people suffered but the redmans had a voice....Unless they did come forward and were silenced.
Watch their youtube video
@@zarniwoopb6078 I have. What are you suggesting
They said they first came forward (reported their concerns) in 2002. But we need to allow those in authority at the time (the trustees) the right of reply and detail what exactly was reported and what they did (of didn’t do) about it.
Tim Hughes came forward in 2004 and wasn't taken seriously and he left shortly after
@@francisscott2196 sad. So many broken people.
YOUR SINS FOUND YOU OUT MIKE PILAVACHI ! ! !
SINCE GOD IS FREELY AVAILABLE WHY DO WE NEED PASTORS ANYWAY ? ? ?
THE DANGERS OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PASTORS ARE PUT ON PEDESTALS AND PEOPLE WORSHIP THEM INSTEAD OF JESUS ! ! !
SATAN IS IN OUR MIDST ! ! !
Amazed at the fact that it seemed like he is covering his on back about being a part of the movement and saying nothing until now when it’s out. Also releases live stream of his music directly after video went live. 🤯🤯🤯🤯
This is yet another example and reason why I have nothing to do with ‘church’. You say you’re lost for words Dan I’m not, it’s sick. Let’s call it what it is, it’s just sick and disgusting. It is dreadfully sad that children have subject to this kind of abuse, and even when reported it fell on deaf ears. It’s so sad to see the church once again rocked by scandal and not only that, but rather than confront the issue and deal with the perpetrator, they chose to protect the organisation over the individual. Words fail me because I am incandescent with what has gone on.
You mustn't let fallen man stop you going on with a relationship with God though. People will always let you down keep your eyes on Jesus and read his word.
@@Janet-d2c thank you for your response but alas this is the kind of reply I’ve come to expect from church folks. Please don’t be disheartened and stuff like that, well unfortunately it’s not just incidents like this, that can cause immense damage. I believe the behaviour of a lot of so-called leaders really needs to be called into question. Sadly there have been far too many things brushed under the carpet for too many years and it doesn’t just include this kind of behaviour.
Elijah and the fire in Kings.
So the Church covered up a sexual scandal, who'd have thought
Watch the video. This is not about sexual abuse (which is illegal), it’s about alleged spiritual and psychological abuse (more difficult to categorise). Still very concerning of course.
There’s definitely a sexual element.
2 Corinthians 6: 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
The Church of England is an apostate church. All true believers in the LORD Jesus Christ must remove themselves.
IT IS BETTER TO PUT YOUR TRUST IN JESUS THAN PUT CONFIDENCE IN MAN ! ! ! AND THIS LATEST SCANDAL PROVES THAT ! ! !
the moment i see a dog collar i think of gosh why? its a crutch
EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT OF GOD IS BEING EXPOSED ! ! !
IT IS POSSIBLE TO TURN CAPITALS OFF!! ...
And did Mat as a leader speak up and protect others at the time? He needs to be looked into aswell
sounds like ... Jonestown ... they followed the piper ...
`so it the scandal that he wrestled with boys.... do the boys say that there was anything sexual like groping or something like that? or is this purely the wrestling which is the abuse?
One more example (it’s becoming quite a regular feature of the church…..) of the spiritual power of Christianity (promised in the Bible)………It almost seems like Christianity is just a man made institution……….just saying.
It is a great pity that instead of helping Mike and his ministry to beput right and restored he is publicly torn down by fellow Christians. This has turned into a revenge witch hunt which is very regrettable. You should read Danny Silk's Culture of Honour and learn from it.
Scripture tells us to expose evil deeds (Ephesians 5.11). If you say we should honour all Christian leaders, however abusive, and not expose their evil deeds, that is giving them a licence to abuse.
Accountability is a safeguard against abuse.
Abusers rarely change. It would never be wise to give someone like Mike Pilavachi power over young people again.
We need to care more about the victims than about the wolf in sheep’s clothing.
@@Jill-jb1jg Maybe Mike P is a victim himself, leading him to behave like this. "Wolf in sheep's clothing"? Be careful how you judge.
Completely right. "I've forgiven Mike", said Redman. It did not sound much like it, to be honest. Kicking a man who is down, with no right of reply? A man who, for all his manifest flaws, did much to help Redman heal from his own issues and set him on a path to fame and fortune. Background tone music to manipulate the emotions?
We live in a fallen world. There are many of us who have to live with the consequences of abuse by church leaders and/or inappropriate sexual attention in our teenage years. Were I more vindictive, I could also name and shame a few individuals (of course, no one cares because neither I nor they are Christian "celebrities"). It is the way of the world to put up with unpleasant, tyrannical and bullying bosses for the sake of one's career, then stab them in the back later once it is safe to do so. What a shame it is to see this happening in the church.
This issue could have been tackled very effectively without turning it into a one-way character assassination focused on the one man and a pity party. One which seemed to rely on an awful lot of hindsight. And without any evident care what demons Pilavachi himself might have to live with causing him to act this way.
And there, but for the grace of God, go I.
In Matthew 18: it says 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.’ It doesn’t say anything about going to the then equivalent to social media and expose him to as many people as possible. And, by the way, I said nothing about‘honouring all leaders’.
I do have some criticism of how the Christian music industry seems to idolise singers. I sing in a small church choir and I have to check myself that while working on my singing ability I don’t do it for vanity purposes and try to maintain the idea of singing well especially during communion to bring some a sense of worship for parishioners. Even writing this I’m conscious of it. I do however believe there is a difference with the heritage of church choirs as there’s a unity of singing together to help bring peace through music in a way that isn’t glorifying the singers. *just to note I started writing this before listening as a whole. This is again why I have huge concerns with the festival approach to these worship events. It’s horrendous what has happened and I do think it’s very easy for those that wish harm especially towards children, to infiltrate ministeries like Soul Survivor. They’re too big and can so easily be corrupted. This is where idolising the stage can lead to a very dark area. I found this when I was 17 in the early 00’s at a Soul Survior weekend and elements didn’t sit well with me. Matt is a wonderful singer and I have always found his music a joy to listen to on a personal level. I hope he finds peace🙏
In the Catholic church the singers were up in the balcony behind so the congregation are not facing them like a band
@@MarthaM-xq6sv it makes sense. Singing for an audience in the way we know it now really can lead to idol worship. I went to a church once and the soloist was singing over the congregation with a microphone to the point it didn’t match and meant others couldn’t enjoy the fulfilling aspect of singing hymns together. I do think it is something that needs looking into. There are those that aren’t confident singers and want to sing out but the focus can easily move back to a stage presence rather than the hymns.
We are tempted in many ways. Satan is a fallen angel who was the worship leader in heaven, he is jealous and would want to destroy worship leaders huge responsibility to bring collective worshipers to focus on the presence of God/Jesus.