As a kid I just found Banjo Tooie was more satisfying, I loved the scale/connectedness of the worlds plus how much effort it took to get some jiggies - you have to be ok with being patient and spending time with the game. Guess its a matter of taste, the jiggy just simply sitting there easily like in kazooie wasnt as memorable for me.
This. It's absolutely subjective taste and nobody is 'wrong'. I love Grunty Industries for example. Wasn't a fan first time but as I got to know it, I came to love it for precisely the same reason. It's insanely convoluted and a lot of stuff is interconnected but once you start wearing down things one at a time the 'puzzle' of the level comes together really well.
Totally, I mean you can even see all the isle from above at some point, while in Kazooie all the worlds felt... trapped in the lair (even though the entrances could be interpreted as portals to other places, it doesn't quite feel like it). I love both games, but I think tooie is overall better in many aspects, including this one.
I think it's amazing how much of the DNA of DK64 is in Banjo Tooie. The bigger worlds, the more conveluted quests... It just feels like Rare learned during the developement of DK64 that this was the direction they wanted to take Games in the future
I think their thought process at least at the time makes sense like how you make Banjo Kazooie better. Well you take everything that game did and expand on it.
I felt the love they put into those games, when I played DK64 growing up. Until I FINALLY got to play Tooie in my late teens (U.S. problem, eh?), Dk64 was my all-time, undisputed favorite game ever!! (It only changed when I got to play Tooie; now Tooie is my undisputed favorite, DK64 a very much beloved, deeply cherished second!!)
Yeah, I totally agree Tooie suffers many of the same issues Donkey Kong 64 had previously. Although, Donkey Kong 64 had done it much worse with the constant Kong switching. Granted, collect-a-thons can be fun, but Rare just went a little too overboard and it makes both games sometimes a chore just to get through one level. Kazooie just had the perfect ratio of collectibles, level size and mini-games/challenges to keep the game going at a constant pace.
@@mattb6522 The main thing that DK64 and Tooie are both criticized for is the backtracking; you have to only do part of a level, collect several things, then maybe beat a boss or whatever; then 3 levels later you learn a new skill, then have to go back to that previous level to use that skill... (Of course, especially in DK64, you would then need to switch to another character after that, then do some sort of a puzzle or minigame... Admittedly, it could get frustrating (glares at you, Fungi Forest lobby mushroom golden banana!))
4:01 fun fact! There's a cheat in the game that the book guy never tells you, and you'll never guess what it helps with! I believe it's "SUPERBANJO" or somethin
I honestly think Tooie is the better game. I think it's Donkey Kong 64 without the rough edges. There are tasks that are quite tedious but I enjoy the fact that I am fully immersed in the environment. I also second the love of WitchyWorld!
Agree with the DK comp but that's why to me it's not as good. Far too many tedious back tracking missions and slow gameplay. Kazooie was far more seamless.
@@ts7844 Glad I'm not alone in this sentiment, even if we're in the minority. Tooie just isn't as fun to me, I never really liked exploring for exploration's sake. I could replay Kazooie endlessly for its tightness
What I’m still trying to grasp at, is how anyone can really flame the game when it’s probably aged just as well as Banjo-Kazooie has, would take this game over many newer games that might come out. It’s a testament to how great these games are, and even with their flaws they are both some of the best in their industries.
I didn’t notice any difference when I was a kid. I just loved how much fun both these games were to play. I loved the world, the music and the atmosphere. I had fun just running around these worlds doing nothing as a kid.
There is a cheat code for double walking speed. Only really usable on the N64 version though because XBLA and Rare Replay versions disable saving if you put a cheat in Banjo Tooie that's not from Cheato
It's fucking lame that the remaster disables saving like that. I prefer Tooie and will still happily concede that the double walk speed makes the game significantly more enjoyable.
@OrenOfClubs Yup, enter CHEATO into the code chamber followed by SUPERBANJO The second word won't make sounds while you enter but will let you know if you did it right when you finish. There are several other codes as well, and you can even enter the ones you get from Cheato this way if you spell those ones backwards. Unlike Banjo Kazooie, the special cheats won't risk your save file in Tooie
I looked up all the cheats before my first playthrough and I think I decided against using this one since I thought it would make some of the platforming segments easier. Maybe I should use it next time, since there's less focus on tight platforming in this game
Funny enough, despite tooie being more complex than kazooie, I managed to beat tooie first at 6 years old whereas I stopped around RBB/CCC for Kazooie. As for a 3rd game, not only is the original team there, but where'd they'd even go from there. Kazooie built upon the foundation set by SM64 by having a more involved hub world, missions not booting you out of the level upon completion and being more story driven. Tooie built upon the foundation set by every other collectathon (Rareware said OOT inspired Tooie) afterwards by having levels interconnect through shortcuts and missions being able to involve more than 1 world (which is the closest we got to Metroid 64 in a way). Most collectathons don't go past the SM64 scale (mission select that changes a level) or Kazooie scale (hub world -> levels with missions; pretty much everyone stops here). The closest I can think of is Ty 2 which was influenced by the gaming landscape changing post GTA 3 and became an open world sandbox with a main hub world village and then driving segments that led you to other levels which were more closed off and linear obstacle courses with occasional pockets of non linearity. That's the closest I think a 3rd game banjo game could go but if reception to tooie was already mixed, I doubt an open world sandbox would recede well. It'd be odd to go back to a kazooie scale after the 2nd game expanded on that.
Omg, the fact you label cloud cuckooland as top-tier world is jarring to me. That level gave me psychotic trauma as a kid - I hated it. Other than that, I agree with your opinion.
I don’t just like both, I love both tbh, I think they both have their ups and downs and are amazing games in their own right. The time it took for things never bothered me that much, maybe it was just because I was a kid with all the time in the world, but I dunno, it made the worlds feel so massive and alive if that makes sense, you don’t just pick up the reward on the ground somewhere you have to actually earn it. I think the fact that Grunty’s Industries is one of my favourite world kinda speaks for itself there lol, I just kinda find the convolution satisfying, every small thing has a purpose that works towards a greater whole.
My opinion solidified after years of playing these games is that Tooie is better AND worse than the original game. It's a wild and bewildering mixture of both pleasure and pain.
The only problem I have with Tooie is that Banjo is sooo slow. He was also slow on Kazooie, but since levels from Kazooie were smaller, it didnt matter that much. If you could play Tooie with the movement of Mario from 64 or Sunshine, the game would be 10x better, since Mario is way more quick and agile
I am absolutely in love with this game . I played the first one and then bought an. Xbox series S to play this. The level design , the problem solving, the thematic world building. Just like you said , you only need 70 jiggies to beat the game. But my favorite jiggy is the family from terrydactland. So much you have to do.!and to me is so satisfying to solve that. Unlike dk64 where you keep having to switch kongs to get the prize . This one if you can’t figure it out now then skip it and then when you get a new power up , you’re like omg now I know what to do
I suspect witchy world is everybody's almost unanimous pick for best world in the game because it follows banjo-kazooie's level design rules the closest, with probably mayahem temple as a close second: It has a centerpiece to it that is particularly important and always recognizable from any angle, constantly enabling the player to ground themselves in their current location in the level via peripheral vision, and all the side areas are dead ends that don't loop in on each other (to my memory) so it's quite literally not possible to get lost going into a side area of the level, you will ALWAYS come back out facing the big tent. Mayahem temple does actually have its interior side areas connected, which lessens this effect on the player as they navigate and play. Furthermore, I think witchy world just played into its theme better than any other world. Everything genuinely feels like a dangerous attraction at an unsanctioned amusement park from the high dive to the boss fight to freak show display to the bumper karts... but compare that with Cloud Cuckoo Land. Cloud Cuckoo Land is supposed to be a giant mountain floating in the sky, yet it has a giant trash can, a huge piece of cheese, some armadillo that loves fitness, central cavern enemies made of probably paper that sound like a cash register when they pop up and spawn. I get the level is supposed to be kinda like it's a dream world and nothing makes sense, but that feels like such a lame cop-out to just NOT have to have the level's areas be cohesive to a singular theme, it's just an excuse for *"lol literally anything, it makes no sense 'cuz it's a dream!"* and thus the level hits much softer to me. You could have a dream level like that while still staying WAY closer to the theme of "in the sky" rather than a random giant trash can and a piece of cheese and a cyborg mumbo. For example, you could have a floating pirate ship with balloons instead of sails. You could have a pod of sky whales that circle the mountain and you need to ride them. You could have a storm cloud that hovers above a singular island and makes it perpetually gloomy and stormy until you come out from under it. *Some* of the level's content hits this mark, like the rainbow and pot 'o gold, or canary mary's sky-race, but others seem like they were thrown in there because they belonged in another level the devs didn't have time for or something.
Both Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie didn't really have a lot of "platforming". Back then we didn't really call these kinds of games "platformers", we just called them "3D action-adventure games". "3D platformer" came to be how we described these kinds of games later, it's sort of a neologism that we adopted over time, but back then we didn't describe them as such. We considered Banjo Kazooie in the same genre of games as stuff like Megaman Legends and Mystical Ninja 64 which weren't really platformers but just "3D adventure" games.
For me having to memorize all thar stuff and figure the best and quickest way to do everything on the game is just incredible to replay over and over again, but I perfectly understand why that is overwhelming for so many people xd
hey, nice video! for me as a die hard banjo fan i love that Tooie brings so much "lore and backstory" (for N64 era) to the table. i love the darker atmosphere and all the worlds. you should check out Designing For´s video on Grunty Industries, its so good! also the older i get, the more i like the Banjo Tooie Soundtrack more than Kazooies. i think both games do still hold up to this day and are really great!
oh my god its gruntilda You're right though I love both games still and hum both of their soundtracks. It's been what, a month this I beat Tooie and I'm still humming the tracks to myself. I will definitely check out that video as I love both games
Tooie's so tonally, graphicaly, atmospherically phenomenal but man the first title is such a nice and neat linear platformer with little to no fluff. For a hypothetical Banjo Threeie I'd prefer an episodic approach like Mario 64/Sunshine/etc. Camera pans around when you start the level, you get an idea of what to do, the whole stage can be deliberately designed around that one jiggy. I love how weird with it Sunshine got, how one episode of Pianta Village the whole stage is just casually on fire.
Every time I play this game I now unlock the Superbanjo cheat so that traversing the landscape takes half the time and you can get a couple of traditionally out of reach jiggies earlier
When I was a kid, I preferred Tooie for two main reasons. I love how big and interconnected the world was. It's an adventure and I loved that aspect of it a lot. It was also easier than Kazooie. Clankers, for me, was the breaking point of that game since water controls weren't super smooth. Not terrible but Clankers requires you to deep dive to "unlock" the level. And that's a lot to ask for a kid. The water sets a limit on time and doesn't allow for mistakes. Anyways, when I last replayed the games (2 years ago) I preferred Kazooie a lot more for being such a concise game that doesn't overstay it's welcome and creates challenge in a way that is inviting most of the time. It's levels are layed out super well and I don't ever feel like the game is trying to pull a fast one on me (most of the time). I have been replaying the game tho and the challenge of the levels are starting to feel more intimidating but I think it's all in my head. Tooie felt like a slog. I just wanted to get to the next objective since I knew where they were and what to do. I still enjoyed it but the huge worlds and time dump were my complaints too. It's my favorite aspect of the game but maybe when I was younger. I do think if I replayed it, I would accept it's game design more but still prefer Kazooie for it's absolute dedication to delivering on being a platformer collectathon and being just that.
When I was a kid I definitely preferred Tooie, I loved the elaborateness of the world. Now I see how it could annoy people, especially later in the game, and how Kazooie's tighter experience could be better if you like that. I love both, I still prefer Tooie, but I think they've become closer to equal in my mind.
As I’m…ironically currently playing through the game again, I have been reflecting on my relationship with this game. Not only is it my favorite game of all time but I’ve ALWAYS preferred this one to Kazooie. I think, maybe the tone or look of the game always grabbed me. I love the interconnection that the game offers. It makes me feel like this is a WORLD (or Island) as opposed to some disconnected stages. I think, the puzzle box almost Metroidvania type of feel was always super gratifying. To line everything up and then start knocking it down to watch everything add up. And I love the straightforwardness of BK. The charm. It’s a lot more vibrant. I think BK has better levels than BT. I just like playing Tooie more.
I grew up pretty poor and was shocked when we got a second hand system and had this. Loved it so much. People complain about the amount of collecting. I say i got more than my money's worth. I also liked quest. Frustrating as hell but was alright. Oot was magical. I even learned context clues and good English from that game. And then conkers bad fur came and i learned that games can be good comedy too. Not a single section i didnt get a good chuckle. Probably why i like god hand so much
Correct opinion. Tooie tries to do too much, but at least it does it well. Interesting to think about it similar to Ocarina of Time, where Kazooie is more like Mario 64. Most people are going to prefer the more straightforward experience.
Both games are great, but no doubt time has been kinder to Kazooie than Tooie. Back when you could only get one game for possibly months at a time, it was practically a requirement for devs to make it last as long as possible and cram as much as they could into it. A game being a commitment wasn't just acceptable, it was _expected._ In that sense Tooie was a great sequel. Now we're in an age of digital libraries, Steam sales, Game Pass, and acceptance of busy adults (not just children) playing games. People of today want to play as much as they can in as short a time as possible, which makes Kazooie's snappier pacing and shorter length shine brighter.
I had both these carts as a kid, and I played the hell out of both of them, and I still have them now. I've played through both on N64, Xbox, and now the Switch. I love these games, B-K was a fantastic platformer collect-a-thon, and B-T seemed to me like a natural expansion and improvement on the formula. I prefer B-T a bit more because the movement is a bit more fluid, being able to control Banjo's roll attack for example. Plus the Breegull Bash. I mean, come on, it's the best move in the game.
I've always preferred Tooie specifically because it isn't 100%ed in one afternoon like Kazooie. Also because I like the bossfights, despite them being easy. The first game feels like an appetizer for the second one.
This is the same reason I couldn't ever get into DK64. I saw some see this as a precursor to Elder Scrolls, another entire game format I can't get into. Banjo Kazooie and its tight level design that respects your time is what I consider perfect. It also doesn't take anything seriously at all. There's kinda a weird tonal whiplash between these two games. Grunty's like fine I'll stop rhyming now. And there's unnecessary amounts of world building like honeycomb expansion. It's fine I guess but nothing is particularly added while lots of your time is taken away. The one major addition being the more logical world-building of the gigantic areas with beautiful draw distances and cast shadows. A lot of this is how I feel about Bethesda games I've never been able to get into. I can see DK64 As being a lot like this too. Banjo by comparison was a giant joke. A simple premise of sister saving, an amazingly nonsensical bad ending where tooty's "beauty" is transferred to Gruntilda with moan based dialog, which I much prefer to random "babe" designs throughout Tooie like Wumba and Honey B. Jinjos are a nonsensical collectible that deux ex machina Grunty at the end, when you help people Kazooie treats everyone as incompetent weirdos but the need is still there, gotta save Banjo's sister. Again, it's fine if you like these changes but it's a weird shift to have happen in one series. To go from a game that makes fun of the idea of these kinds of games to building a serious world out of it. Just goes to show how Tooie and DK64 are sister games and I guess in a way B-K and Conker's BFD are possibly more related than I initially thought. Conker is another game I consider to be perfect and doesn't go overboard with giant vistas and hardly delivers on collecting while upping the ante on tongue-in-cheek comedy and high concept gameplay pretty much exclusively. It almost has RE4 gameplay before re4 existed with over the shoulder laser sight zombie-shotgun gamepla, rather than copying some weak goldeneye analog to both Tooie and DK64...
Quick glance at that tier list, it's seems to be decided by how much you can actually do when you first go to a world, which makes sense for your point.
I LOVE both games because the first one is amazing and the sequel is a sequel DONE RIGHT!! It's different sure but that is why I love it so much! And I love how connected the world is!
Fair enough. I always hated Grunty Industries. And I get your points! But still Banjo Tooie ist my favorite. Its basically Kozooie with.. more. Maybe too much in some places but still.. love it.
With how ambitious and grand scale Tooie is i always thought the best route for a Banjo Kazooie remake was make Banjo Kazooie but have the post-game be Tooie with a playable Tootie.
I personally prefer Banjo-Tooie over Banjo-Kazooie, but personally it's because I rather play a game that is more focused on adventure rather than platforming. Don't get me wrong, I love platformers and I absolutely love retro games, especially from the N64 and Gamecube era. Sm64, banjo-kazooie, etc. They are all fun as well, however Tooie feels more like a big exploration/adventure game kinda leaning more into more of a legend of zelda vibe/direction. Anyways, interesting points talked about in the video, clearly Tooie has a much more different approach than Kazooie. Lastly, it's nice to see another small CC starting their youtube journey, good luck with your endeavors.
I absolutely get what you mean! Liking adventure games will absolutely make you have a higher chance of liking Tooie more, and there's nothing wrong with that, as the game is great! Thanks for the comment and have a great day friend
The game being slow is really two separate issues, and both of them are a problem, but the 2nd one is far more annoying to me. 1. Goodies in the game require a lot of steps and many of the steps can feel like busywork. The alien jiggy in the video is a great example. The most annoying ones for me are ones where you have to play the same minigame 3 times, and each time is slightly more difficult. The stone football minigame makes you play it 6 times even. 2. Everything has painfully long unskippable cutscenes attached to them. The video showed the Mumbo cutscene where he levitates a stone, but cutscenes like that all over the game. Every new world you open you gotta watch a long cutscene. Every time you transform with Wumba, you gotta watch a cutscene. Every time you talk to Mumbo you gotta watch the same cutscene again. The most annoying that I recall is in Grunty Industries there's some screws in the ground you remove with the drill ground pound thing. These come in sets of 4, and every time you remove the 1st of the 4 there's a cutscene, and then when you remove the 4th one there's another cutscene of the thing falling down. How about no cutscenes and when you remove the 4th one it just plays a jingle and you hear a crash! sound. At the worst, after you do this for the first time one of the characters could quickly say "I heard something drop down in the room below us!"
There are a lot of elements that Tooie does better and while there are some elements that its predecessor did better, I definitely think Tooie is the better game because of the amount of content given to us, the hard work put into it, and the overall humor style of the first game is still present and just as good as it was before.
I play games to have an adventure. I don't care if it's an RPG, a shooter, a beat-em-up, a point and click, a platformer, I don't care. I want to get out there and experience stuff and leave with something that sticks out in my head as a memorable experience that changed me somehow. If game doesn't do that it's not my thing, (hence why I don't get into competitive games). All of Rare's work from Goldeneye give me an adventure feel.
Played kazooie and tooie each when they first came out. Love both but im a tooie preferrer. I love how much funnier tooie was and the raised difficulty felt like rare was respecting that i had 2 birthdays since banjo kazooie
Good video! Witchyworld was my favorite level in Tooie as well. Yeah, I like both, but I only ever go revisit Kazooie. I've beaten Tooie 100% _twice_ as a kid and just don't have the drive to ever play it again as an adult. It is a major slog compared to Kazooie. I just prefer the pacing of Kazooie more with less back-tracking, less mini-games, and more condensed levels. I understand that Rare wanted to make a bigger, better game, but a lot of it felt like needless padding. Some Jiggies just require so many steps to complete that I feel more exhaustion than actual achievement once I succeed. Though, I do appreciate Tooie's charm and the game both looks and sounds amazing for an N64 game!
I always prefered the first only because it in my opinion had a clearer sense of direction tooie felt more open just for the sake of being more open which personally took away from it
In my Opinion, Banjo Tooie is amazing for what it is. It only depends on the mood what i want to play, either the easier Banjo Kazooie were i dont even have to think about what i have to do, or the more complex Banjo Tooie were i want to challenge my memory were i have to go first. So it is a positive sideeffect, that both games differenciate from each other.
My main problem with Tooie was the tone. Same as Donkey Kong 64, I didn't like how dark it was compared to its predecessors. Also, both games felt like a chore to complete, not fun. I've played Banjo Kazooie over 100 times because I find it fun. But Donky Kong 64 and Banjo Tooie I only completed once just because I'm a completionist, and I have no desire to ever play them again. And I didn't mind the collectathon part or the vast worlds, or the backtracking, or the extra effort to get jiggies at all. I would have enjoyed those aspects a lot if I actually liked playing the game. But since the game didn't feel enjoyable to me, all of those things just felt that they were unnecessarily dragging out a very depressing and tedious experience. I also didn't like that most of these vast worlds seemed to just be empty space to get lost in. The notes served no purpose anymore. In Banjo Kazooie, it felt very satisfying because every single part of the world you were in had a purpose for something, and the notes were spread out very strategically over the entire world so you could track your progress. You could tell exactly how much of the world you had covered by what your note count was. If you had 50 notes, you'd explored half the level. If you had 94 notes, you could be sure that there was a small area in that level that you had missed. Banjo Tooie though basically just gave you all 100 notes as soon as you started the level. What's the point of that? Why even have them at that point? And then you have no way of knowing how much of the level you had actually explored.
I haven't played much of Kazooie but I was a huge fan of Tooie growing up. I'll say that, for my part, some of the things people complain about it are things I liked about it. For example, with the backtracking, I considered that a plus because it makes the game less linear, you see. Levels in the game aren't "single use", they're still in play much later in the game. And the interconnectedness of it all makes it feel like more a lived-in world and creates a strong sense of scope.
Both are good games but Tooie is far superior, in my opinion. The first game is so much easier and more straightforward, but Tooie has much more interesting of a challenge. It connects the worlds of the game in such neat ways (they’re not connected at all in Kazooie), and the themes of the worlds are great, too. I love how you learn new moves that allow you to split up and do separate moves as Banjo and Kazooie separately! Tooie > Kazooie
4:12 actually, there is a power up that doubles your speed. It’s called super banjo. Enter cheato and then super banjo in the cheat room in mayahem temple Also, Grunty industries is the best level in any game ever.
Banjo Kazooie, I'd the game where I could start playing, and 5 hours later, I'm on my 75th Jiggy and still immersed in the game. Tooie was the opposite because it was too large for its own good, and every single jiggy required a lot of backtracking. It's not a bad game, but it does become tedious.
I think the key word is ‘convoluted’. Both BT and DK64 were plagued with having puzzles with so many moving parts, often involving some sort of alt control challenge that ramps up drastically in difficulty at the end. Like, it’s not enough to just get to an area and do something with your base kit, you gotta do a button mash or minecart minigame
I think Tooie was a natural level up in terms of difficulty and I think the kids who played Kazooie grew up to be ready to handle Tooie 2-3 years later
Banjo-Tooie was the perfect difficulty/complexity increase for 5 year old me growing into a 7 year old between the two releases. Except Canary Mary. Needed to get my dad to do the Cloud Cuckoo Land ones.
You have people who love Banjo-Kazooie, people who love Banjo-Tooie, & people who love Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. I personally love Tooie and the N64 version of Banjo-Kazooie doesn't hold your hand like the Xbox version does, the N64 version doesn't save your notes unless you get all 100 notes unlike the Xbox version that saves your notes. You could miss one note and without following the other notes you could never find it, I couldn't find the last note in Click clock wood on Xbox but on N64 I had no problem because the notes lead me to it
Personally I consider Banjo-Tooie the superior game. I just love the worlds and their themes, the interconnectivity, the new moves and gameplay elements, its atmosphere and so on. Also its graphics were top notch for N64 standards, especially with its dynamic lighting. It's basically an open world game on the N64. And a lot of fun. The only two weakpoints are its story and its performance. I would've loved to see more evil doings of the witches, to make their presence more prominent. And the performance is pretty bad, due to going way over what the N64 could handle.
I agree, though. I played tooie before I beat kazooie. I noticed how fast i was getting things in kazooie and easy too. Personally I prefer tooie over kazooie for nostalgia sake, but I still hate canary mary
Great video!! As a kid I loved banjo tooie since you could really sink time in the game and playing it. The adventure lasted very long, and as a kid it felt like infinite replayability :)
Funnily enough I've beaten -Tooie faster by 4 hours than -Kazooie lol Honestly tho I enjoyed -Tooie so much more, partially cuz it didn't reset the notes count on death _seriously Rusty Bucket Bay Engine Room why do you exist_ but mostly cuz the worlds were absolutely amazing You're not exploring isolated worlds in an evil witch's castle(?), you're travelling the whole island and visiting lively and wildly different places, some stuck in the past and some just funky And the interconnectivity only adds to the experience, in fact I liked walking through the island so much I didn't even use the Silos for fast travel, if anything I wish more 3D platformers did the -Tooie level of interconnectivity between worlds The only thing I'd wish is making Terrydactyland and Grunty Industries bit less confusing, spent like 2h in each just learning the layout
You just let me realize that adventure games are really my thing😂 I liked banjo kazooie its in my top 10 for sure but banjo tooie is next level. Its my all time favorite game. Not even zelda Oot or Botw can beat banjo tooie for me
As a kid there were many jiggies I Ieft on the table just because some of them are just far far more time consuming than others, the game feels like it's telling you, oh don't worry about this one unless you're super serous about fully completing the game, otherwise you're wasting your time. My favorite thing about Tooie is that feeling of exploring and getting lost in this big world, though kazooie had a better hub world.
I would just like to point out that as great of a game BK is, its not perfect. Need a bring up Rusty "Fuck it" Bay? Still proud I managed to 100% that game back in the N64 days WITHOUT the note saving that the xbox has. In BT's case, its the one jiggy I ALWAYS save for last...Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckoo Land. I couldn't even get that jiggy until 3 years later when I was older and finally understood what causes Mary to rubberband.
A quote from El Dorado. "Both. Both is good." They are good by their own merits. I agree strongly though that Grunty Industries took WAY too long to beat. The only level in the game that can take over an hour.
My problem with banjo tooie and rare’s other collectathons after Kazooie is that they thought “bigger=better” instead of trying to innovate and improve on kazooie, bigger does not always mean better
You get double the number of your moves, split pads, an absolute armory of eggs, a hell of minigames to play with your friends, an integrated 007 style FPS 4-player game.. dude, Tooie absolutely overdid Kazooie.
For me, Banjo Kazooie is not an enjoyable game. Meanwhile, I played the shit out of Banjo Tooie. And then I actually found a way to make Banjo Kazooie very enjoyable for me - save states in an emulator. I noticed that the things I really hated about BK was 1. the amount of time it can take to get back to a specific challenge and 2. notes not being saved and having to be recollected because of that score thing Once I used save states and the game was more about overcoming platforming challenges instead of tediously re-gathering all the nonsense once I failed if that resulted in death, I really really liked what BK offered in its worlds. Also, one thing imo BK really dropped the ball on vs. e.g. Super Mario 64 was that iirc, you needed like 900 out of 1000 notes to challenge the final boss, meaning you could only skip one stage if you got everything in every other stage, or just beat 90% of the game. Super Mario needed 80/120 or 150 (remake), and that gives soo. muuch. flexibility which I love when i do different kinds of runs, and imo that also lets Super Mario 64 stave off "burnout" way easier than having to complete 90% of BK every time you play it. Banjo Tooie is imo just DK64 but fixed - not a stupid amount of collectibles locked behind specific characters and all that nonsense, and the sheer connectedness making it feel like a 3D metroidvania? Call me biased because I love metroidvanias, but it suckered me in. I'm also a huge sucker for gimmick levels, so the different things Banjo Tooie tried out and threw you into? Loved it. I actually love it more than DK64, Banjo Kazooie, or any other N64 platformer, yes even the iconic Mario 64.
before you flipped your critique into a praise I was thinking man this guy doesnt like adventure. I never knew there were people that didn't like Tooie until the last few years. I think this is a newer phenomenon where the bigger levels don't really impress like they used to now that we have crazy hardware capabilities and draw distances. I hear this a lot more frequently about Tooie nowadays but I never used to hear it. The thing I remember as a criticism was that the fairytale aspect from Kazooie was lessened without the characters rhyming. People used to always bring that up as a point of possible contention.
@@OrenOfClubs It really is. Has the puzzling adventure elements without feeling barren, convoluted, or tedious. And I always like a villainous theme park.
4:50 I believe this is the player's fault. If you know what you have to do and are good at orientation this level is no different than any other. You said it took you an hour to "get things rolling". For me it took a little over an hour to 100% it. Once you know where all the paths lead you'll get to that moment where it just clicks. The problem is this level tries to make you do things out of order by design, so doing one thing after another is very helpful to not lose track.
I grew up with bajo kazooie, never played tooie, tried tooie with the rare collection but couldnt get latched onto it, but your video makes me want to give it a second chance. Maybe i just wanted it to be ine thing but it wasnt that so i was turned off. But the way youre explaining things makes me think its doable now but i just hit that powerup problem you spoke of and that seems like a big issue.
I hope you enjoy the game! it is good. I feel like it isn't too bad if you do what I do and just chill and take it slow while trying to get the power ups first. There is also a cheat code that makes Banjo go double speed apparently if it really gets that bad for you.
As a kid I just found Banjo Tooie was more satisfying, I loved the scale/connectedness of the worlds plus how much effort it took to get some jiggies - you have to be ok with being patient and spending time with the game. Guess its a matter of taste, the jiggy just simply sitting there easily like in kazooie wasnt as memorable for me.
This. It's absolutely subjective taste and nobody is 'wrong'. I love Grunty Industries for example. Wasn't a fan first time but as I got to know it, I came to love it for precisely the same reason. It's insanely convoluted and a lot of stuff is interconnected but once you start wearing down things one at a time the 'puzzle' of the level comes together really well.
Objectively correct
Totally, I mean you can even see all the isle from above at some point, while in Kazooie all the worlds felt... trapped in the lair (even though the entrances could be interpreted as portals to other places, it doesn't quite feel like it). I love both games, but I think tooie is overall better in many aspects, including this one.
Agreed. It is a matter of taste
I think it's amazing how much of the DNA of DK64 is in Banjo Tooie. The bigger worlds, the more conveluted quests... It just feels like Rare learned during the developement of DK64 that this was the direction they wanted to take Games in the future
I think their thought process at least at the time makes sense like how you make Banjo Kazooie better. Well you take everything that game did and expand on it.
I felt the love they put into those games, when I played DK64 growing up.
Until I FINALLY got to play Tooie in my late teens (U.S. problem, eh?), Dk64 was my all-time, undisputed favorite game ever!!
(It only changed when I got to play Tooie; now Tooie is my undisputed favorite, DK64 a very much beloved, deeply cherished second!!)
Yeah, I totally agree Tooie suffers many of the same issues Donkey Kong 64 had previously. Although, Donkey Kong 64 had done it much worse with the constant Kong switching. Granted, collect-a-thons can be fun, but Rare just went a little too overboard and it makes both games sometimes a chore just to get through one level. Kazooie just had the perfect ratio of collectibles, level size and mini-games/challenges to keep the game going at a constant pace.
@@mattb6522 The main thing that DK64 and Tooie are both criticized for is the backtracking; you have to only do part of a level, collect several things, then maybe beat a boss or whatever; then 3 levels later you learn a new skill, then have to go back to that previous level to use that skill...
(Of course, especially in DK64, you would then need to switch to another character after that, then do some sort of a puzzle or minigame... Admittedly, it could get frustrating (glares at you, Fungi Forest lobby mushroom golden banana!))
4:01 fun fact! There's a cheat in the game that the book guy never tells you, and you'll never guess what it helps with!
I believe it's "SUPERBANJO" or somethin
and if you feel like that's cheating, you can also type in "SUPERBADDIE" to apply the buff to the enemies.
I honestly think Tooie is the better game. I think it's Donkey Kong 64 without the rough edges. There are tasks that are quite tedious but I enjoy the fact that I am fully immersed in the environment.
I also second the love of WitchyWorld!
It’s absolutely not the better game. Banjo kazooie is perfect and tooie was a mess.
Agree with the DK comp but that's why to me it's not as good. Far too many tedious back tracking missions and slow gameplay. Kazooie was far more seamless.
@@ts7844 Glad I'm not alone in this sentiment, even if we're in the minority. Tooie just isn't as fun to me, I never really liked exploring for exploration's sake. I could replay Kazooie endlessly for its tightness
What I’m still trying to grasp at, is how anyone can really flame the game when it’s probably aged just as well as Banjo-Kazooie has, would take this game over many newer games that might come out. It’s a testament to how great these games are, and even with their flaws they are both some of the best in their industries.
I didn’t notice any difference when I was a kid. I just loved how much fun both these games were to play. I loved the world, the music and the atmosphere. I had fun just running around these worlds doing nothing as a kid.
There is a cheat code for double walking speed. Only really usable on the N64 version though because XBLA and Rare Replay versions disable saving if you put a cheat in Banjo Tooie that's not from Cheato
It's fucking lame that the remaster disables saving like that. I prefer Tooie and will still happily concede that the double walk speed makes the game significantly more enjoyable.
WHAT
@OrenOfClubs Yup, enter CHEATO into the code chamber followed by SUPERBANJO
The second word won't make sounds while you enter but will let you know if you did it right when you finish. There are several other codes as well, and you can even enter the ones you get from Cheato this way if you spell those ones backwards.
Unlike Banjo Kazooie, the special cheats won't risk your save file in Tooie
I looked up all the cheats before my first playthrough and I think I decided against using this one since I thought it would make some of the platforming segments easier. Maybe I should use it next time, since there's less focus on tight platforming in this game
@@OrenOfClubs Tooie tries to be a collect-a-thon and an open world game at the same time, this was before open world games were even a thing.
Funny enough, despite tooie being more complex than kazooie, I managed to beat tooie first at 6 years old whereas I stopped around RBB/CCC for Kazooie.
As for a 3rd game, not only is the original team there, but where'd they'd even go from there. Kazooie built upon the foundation set by SM64 by having a more involved hub world, missions not booting you out of the level upon completion and being more story driven. Tooie built upon the foundation set by every other collectathon (Rareware said OOT inspired Tooie) afterwards by having levels interconnect through shortcuts and missions being able to involve more than 1 world (which is the closest we got to Metroid 64 in a way).
Most collectathons don't go past the SM64 scale (mission select that changes a level) or Kazooie scale (hub world -> levels with missions; pretty much everyone stops here). The closest I can think of is Ty 2 which was influenced by the gaming landscape changing post GTA 3 and became an open world sandbox with a main hub world village and then driving segments that led you to other levels which were more closed off and linear obstacle courses with occasional pockets of non linearity.
That's the closest I think a 3rd game banjo game could go but if reception to tooie was already mixed, I doubt an open world sandbox would recede well. It'd be odd to go back to a kazooie scale after the 2nd game expanded on that.
Omg, the fact you label cloud cuckooland as top-tier world is jarring to me. That level gave me psychotic trauma as a kid - I hated it. Other than that, I agree with your opinion.
I knew people would say this. I just loved how simple it was to get around and the freedom of flying everywhere. Canary Mary is a piece of shit tho
I don’t just like both, I love both tbh, I think they both have their ups and downs and are amazing games in their own right. The time it took for things never bothered me that much, maybe it was just because I was a kid with all the time in the world, but I dunno, it made the worlds feel so massive and alive if that makes sense, you don’t just pick up the reward on the ground somewhere you have to actually earn it. I think the fact that Grunty’s Industries is one of my favourite world kinda speaks for itself there lol, I just kinda find the convolution satisfying, every small thing has a purpose that works towards a greater whole.
My opinion solidified after years of playing these games is that Tooie is better AND worse than the original game. It's a wild and bewildering mixture of both pleasure and pain.
Yup, It is so surreal
The only problem I have with Tooie is that Banjo is sooo slow. He was also slow on Kazooie, but since levels from Kazooie were smaller, it didnt matter that much. If you could play Tooie with the movement of Mario from 64 or Sunshine, the game would be 10x better, since Mario is way more quick and agile
I am absolutely in love with this game . I played the first one and then bought an. Xbox series S to play this. The level design , the problem solving, the thematic world building. Just like you said , you only need 70 jiggies to beat the game. But my favorite jiggy is the family from terrydactland. So much you have to do.!and to me is so satisfying to solve that. Unlike dk64 where you keep having to switch kongs to get the prize . This one if you can’t figure it out now then skip it and then when you get a new power up , you’re like omg now I know what to do
I suspect witchy world is everybody's almost unanimous pick for best world in the game because it follows banjo-kazooie's level design rules the closest, with probably mayahem temple as a close second:
It has a centerpiece to it that is particularly important and always recognizable from any angle, constantly enabling the player to ground themselves in their current location in the level via peripheral vision, and all the side areas are dead ends that don't loop in on each other (to my memory) so it's quite literally not possible to get lost going into a side area of the level, you will ALWAYS come back out facing the big tent. Mayahem temple does actually have its interior side areas connected, which lessens this effect on the player as they navigate and play.
Furthermore, I think witchy world just played into its theme better than any other world. Everything genuinely feels like a dangerous attraction at an unsanctioned amusement park from the high dive to the boss fight to freak show display to the bumper karts... but compare that with Cloud Cuckoo Land. Cloud Cuckoo Land is supposed to be a giant mountain floating in the sky, yet it has a giant trash can, a huge piece of cheese, some armadillo that loves fitness, central cavern enemies made of probably paper that sound like a cash register when they pop up and spawn.
I get the level is supposed to be kinda like it's a dream world and nothing makes sense, but that feels like such a lame cop-out to just NOT have to have the level's areas be cohesive to a singular theme, it's just an excuse for *"lol literally anything, it makes no sense 'cuz it's a dream!"* and thus the level hits much softer to me. You could have a dream level like that while still staying WAY closer to the theme of "in the sky" rather than a random giant trash can and a piece of cheese and a cyborg mumbo.
For example, you could have a floating pirate ship with balloons instead of sails. You could have a pod of sky whales that circle the mountain and you need to ride them. You could have a storm cloud that hovers above a singular island and makes it perpetually gloomy and stormy until you come out from under it. *Some* of the level's content hits this mark, like the rainbow and pot 'o gold, or canary mary's sky-race, but others seem like they were thrown in there because they belonged in another level the devs didn't have time for or something.
I love both, but I get why people don’t like Tooie.
Its map is huge, the world links are confusing & don’t even talk to me about canary Mary.
Both Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie didn't really have a lot of "platforming". Back then we didn't really call these kinds of games "platformers", we just called them "3D action-adventure games". "3D platformer" came to be how we described these kinds of games later, it's sort of a neologism that we adopted over time, but back then we didn't describe them as such. We considered Banjo Kazooie in the same genre of games as stuff like Megaman Legends and Mystical Ninja 64 which weren't really platformers but just "3D adventure" games.
For me having to memorize all thar stuff and figure the best and quickest way to do everything on the game is just incredible to replay over and over again, but I perfectly understand why that is overwhelming for so many people xd
hey, nice video! for me as a die hard banjo fan i love that Tooie brings so much "lore and backstory" (for N64 era) to the table. i love the darker atmosphere and all the worlds. you should check out Designing For´s video on Grunty Industries, its so good! also the older i get, the more i like the Banjo Tooie Soundtrack more than Kazooies. i think both games do still hold up to this day and are really great!
oh my god its gruntilda
You're right though I love both games still and hum both of their soundtracks. It's been what, a month this I beat Tooie and I'm still humming the tracks to myself. I will definitely check out that video as I love both games
Tooie's so tonally, graphicaly, atmospherically phenomenal but man the first title is such a nice and neat linear platformer with little to no fluff.
For a hypothetical Banjo Threeie I'd prefer an episodic approach like Mario 64/Sunshine/etc. Camera pans around when you start the level, you get an idea of what to do, the whole stage can be deliberately designed around that one jiggy. I love how weird with it Sunshine got, how one episode of Pianta Village the whole stage is just casually on fire.
I think I'm gonna "cheato" "suberbanjo" my way out of it
In B-K you'll get an adventure while you're out collecting things.
In B-T you'll find some things to collect while you're out on an adventure.
you need the superbanjo cheat for speed
Every time I play this game I now unlock the Superbanjo cheat so that traversing the landscape takes half the time and you can get a couple of traditionally out of reach jiggies earlier
When I was a kid, I preferred Tooie for two main reasons. I love how big and interconnected the world was. It's an adventure and I loved that aspect of it a lot. It was also easier than Kazooie. Clankers, for me, was the breaking point of that game since water controls weren't super smooth. Not terrible but Clankers requires you to deep dive to "unlock" the level. And that's a lot to ask for a kid. The water sets a limit on time and doesn't allow for mistakes.
Anyways, when I last replayed the games (2 years ago) I preferred Kazooie a lot more for being such a concise game that doesn't overstay it's welcome and creates challenge in a way that is inviting most of the time. It's levels are layed out super well and I don't ever feel like the game is trying to pull a fast one on me (most of the time). I have been replaying the game tho and the challenge of the levels are starting to feel more intimidating but I think it's all in my head. Tooie felt like a slog. I just wanted to get to the next objective since I knew where they were and what to do. I still enjoyed it but the huge worlds and time dump were my complaints too. It's my favorite aspect of the game but maybe when I was younger. I do think if I replayed it, I would accept it's game design more but still prefer Kazooie for it's absolute dedication to delivering on being a platformer collectathon and being just that.
When I was a kid I definitely preferred Tooie, I loved the elaborateness of the world. Now I see how it could annoy people, especially later in the game, and how Kazooie's tighter experience could be better if you like that. I love both, I still prefer Tooie, but I think they've become closer to equal in my mind.
i love banjo kazooie content and i wanna start making youtube videos so thumbs up for inspiring someone to make something
Good luck in your endeavours friend!
As I’m…ironically currently playing through the game again, I have been reflecting on my relationship with this game. Not only is it my favorite game of all time but I’ve ALWAYS preferred this one to Kazooie. I think, maybe the tone or look of the game always grabbed me. I love the interconnection that the game offers. It makes me feel like this is a WORLD (or Island) as opposed to some disconnected stages. I think, the puzzle box almost Metroidvania type of feel was always super gratifying. To line everything up and then start knocking it down to watch everything add up.
And I love the straightforwardness of BK. The charm. It’s a lot more vibrant. I think BK has better levels than BT. I just like playing Tooie more.
I grew up pretty poor and was shocked when we got a second hand system and had this. Loved it so much. People complain about the amount of collecting. I say i got more than my money's worth. I also liked quest. Frustrating as hell but was alright. Oot was magical. I even learned context clues and good English from that game. And then conkers bad fur came and i learned that games can be good comedy too. Not a single section i didnt get a good chuckle. Probably why i like god hand so much
God Hand is probably my second favorite game ever made its so good
There is no problem. Banjo-Tooie is perfect. The best video game sequel of all time.
Correct opinion. Tooie tries to do too much, but at least it does it well. Interesting to think about it similar to Ocarina of Time, where Kazooie is more like Mario 64. Most people are going to prefer the more straightforward experience.
Both games are great, but no doubt time has been kinder to Kazooie than Tooie. Back when you could only get one game for possibly months at a time, it was practically a requirement for devs to make it last as long as possible and cram as much as they could into it. A game being a commitment wasn't just acceptable, it was _expected._ In that sense Tooie was a great sequel. Now we're in an age of digital libraries, Steam sales, Game Pass, and acceptance of busy adults (not just children) playing games. People of today want to play as much as they can in as short a time as possible, which makes Kazooie's snappier pacing and shorter length shine brighter.
Banjo-Tooie is the better of the two titles in my eyes.
Been seeing very small CC in my feed lately and glad you came up. Keep it up 🎉
Thanks Friend
We have resonated into the moments where we can support small content creators
I had both these carts as a kid, and I played the hell out of both of them, and I still have them now. I've played through both on N64, Xbox, and now the Switch. I love these games, B-K was a fantastic platformer collect-a-thon, and B-T seemed to me like a natural expansion and improvement on the formula. I prefer B-T a bit more because the movement is a bit more fluid, being able to control Banjo's roll attack for example.
Plus the Breegull Bash. I mean, come on, it's the best move in the game.
I've always preferred Tooie specifically because it isn't 100%ed in one afternoon like Kazooie. Also because I like the bossfights, despite them being easy.
The first game feels like an appetizer for the second one.
This is the same reason I couldn't ever get into DK64. I saw some see this as a precursor to Elder Scrolls, another entire game format I can't get into.
Banjo Kazooie and its tight level design that respects your time is what I consider perfect. It also doesn't take anything seriously at all. There's kinda a weird tonal whiplash between these two games.
Grunty's like fine I'll stop rhyming now. And there's unnecessary amounts of world building like honeycomb expansion. It's fine I guess but nothing is particularly added while lots of your time is taken away. The one major addition being the more logical world-building of the gigantic areas with beautiful draw distances and cast shadows. A lot of this is how I feel about Bethesda games I've never been able to get into.
I can see DK64 As being a lot like this too.
Banjo by comparison was a giant joke. A simple premise of sister saving, an amazingly nonsensical bad ending where tooty's "beauty" is transferred to Gruntilda with moan based dialog, which I much prefer to random "babe" designs throughout Tooie like Wumba and Honey B. Jinjos are a nonsensical collectible that deux ex machina Grunty at the end, when you help people Kazooie treats everyone as incompetent weirdos but the need is still there, gotta save Banjo's sister.
Again, it's fine if you like these changes but it's a weird shift to have happen in one series. To go from a game that makes fun of the idea of these kinds of games to building a serious world out of it.
Just goes to show how Tooie and DK64 are sister games and I guess in a way B-K and Conker's BFD are possibly more related than I initially thought. Conker is another game I consider to be perfect and doesn't go overboard with giant vistas and hardly delivers on collecting while upping the ante on tongue-in-cheek comedy and high concept gameplay pretty much exclusively. It almost has RE4 gameplay before re4 existed with over the shoulder laser sight zombie-shotgun gamepla, rather than copying some weak goldeneye analog to both Tooie and DK64...
I wish you could transform back ATLEAST to the bear and bird when going in water, like in Yooka-Laylee.
I consider both as one giant, incredible game.
Quick glance at that tier list, it's seems to be decided by how much you can actually do when you first go to a world, which makes sense for your point.
I LOVE both games because the first one is amazing and the sequel is a sequel DONE RIGHT!! It's different sure but that is why I love it so much! And I love how connected the world is!
I totally agree: Witchyworld is the absolute GOAT!!
Fair enough. I always hated Grunty Industries. And I get your points! But still Banjo Tooie ist my favorite. Its basically Kozooie with.. more. Maybe too much in some places but still.. love it.
With how ambitious and grand scale Tooie is i always thought the best route for a Banjo Kazooie remake was make Banjo Kazooie but have the post-game be Tooie with a playable Tootie.
I personally prefer Banjo-Tooie over Banjo-Kazooie, but personally it's because I rather play a game that is more focused on adventure rather than platforming. Don't get me wrong, I love platformers and I absolutely love retro games, especially from the N64 and Gamecube era. Sm64, banjo-kazooie, etc. They are all fun as well, however Tooie feels more like a big exploration/adventure game kinda leaning more into more of a legend of zelda vibe/direction.
Anyways, interesting points talked about in the video, clearly Tooie has a much more different approach than Kazooie.
Lastly, it's nice to see another small CC starting their youtube journey, good luck with your endeavors.
I absolutely get what you mean! Liking adventure games will absolutely make you have a higher chance of liking Tooie more, and there's nothing wrong with that, as the game is great!
Thanks for the comment and have a great day friend
Kazooie is my favourite.
The game being slow is really two separate issues, and both of them are a problem, but the 2nd one is far more annoying to me.
1. Goodies in the game require a lot of steps and many of the steps can feel like busywork. The alien jiggy in the video is a great example. The most annoying ones for me are ones where you have to play the same minigame 3 times, and each time is slightly more difficult. The stone football minigame makes you play it 6 times even.
2. Everything has painfully long unskippable cutscenes attached to them. The video showed the Mumbo cutscene where he levitates a stone, but cutscenes like that all over the game. Every new world you open you gotta watch a long cutscene. Every time you transform with Wumba, you gotta watch a cutscene. Every time you talk to Mumbo you gotta watch the same cutscene again. The most annoying that I recall is in Grunty Industries there's some screws in the ground you remove with the drill ground pound thing. These come in sets of 4, and every time you remove the 1st of the 4 there's a cutscene, and then when you remove the 4th one there's another cutscene of the thing falling down. How about no cutscenes and when you remove the 4th one it just plays a jingle and you hear a crash! sound. At the worst, after you do this for the first time one of the characters could quickly say "I heard something drop down in the room below us!"
Banjo Kazooie feels like a smooth fun adventure
Tooie feels like is trying to go more serious and do more stuff
Tooie for me. It felt like a better Kazooie, and since Kazooie was already awesome, Tooie was and still is the favourite game from my brother and I
😅 when i realized that the bird is kazooie and not a new bird. It was just a play on too
There are a lot of elements that Tooie does better and while there are some elements that its predecessor did better, I definitely think Tooie is the better game because of the amount of content given to us, the hard work put into it, and the overall humor style of the first game is still present and just as good as it was before.
I play games to have an adventure. I don't care if it's an RPG, a shooter, a beat-em-up, a point and click, a platformer, I don't care. I want to get out there and experience stuff and leave with something that sticks out in my head as a memorable experience that changed me somehow. If game doesn't do that it's not my thing, (hence why I don't get into competitive games). All of Rare's work from Goldeneye give me an adventure feel.
Played kazooie and tooie each when they first came out. Love both but im a tooie preferrer. I love how much funnier tooie was and the raised difficulty felt like rare was respecting that i had 2 birthdays since banjo kazooie
Good video! Witchyworld was my favorite level in Tooie as well. Yeah, I like both, but I only ever go revisit Kazooie. I've beaten Tooie 100% _twice_ as a kid and just don't have the drive to ever play it again as an adult. It is a major slog compared to Kazooie. I just prefer the pacing of Kazooie more with less back-tracking, less mini-games, and more condensed levels.
I understand that Rare wanted to make a bigger, better game, but a lot of it felt like needless padding. Some Jiggies just require so many steps to complete that I feel more exhaustion than actual achievement once I succeed. Though, I do appreciate Tooie's charm and the game both looks and sounds amazing for an N64 game!
I like Banjo Kazooie and cannot deny its greater influence, but it pales in comparison to Banjo Tooie. It's a perfect sequel.
I always prefered the first only because it in my opinion had a clearer sense of direction tooie felt more open just for the sake of being more open which personally took away from it
The problem was that even with the small box upgrade it was so large that it was soooo slow. Like too many potato chip.
In my Opinion, Banjo Tooie is amazing for what it is. It only depends on the mood what i want to play, either the easier Banjo Kazooie were i dont even have to think about what i have to do, or the more complex Banjo Tooie were i want to challenge my memory were i have to go first. So it is a positive sideeffect, that both games differenciate from each other.
My main problem with Tooie was the tone. Same as Donkey Kong 64, I didn't like how dark it was compared to its predecessors. Also, both games felt like a chore to complete, not fun. I've played Banjo Kazooie over 100 times because I find it fun. But Donky Kong 64 and Banjo Tooie I only completed once just because I'm a completionist, and I have no desire to ever play them again.
And I didn't mind the collectathon part or the vast worlds, or the backtracking, or the extra effort to get jiggies at all. I would have enjoyed those aspects a lot if I actually liked playing the game. But since the game didn't feel enjoyable to me, all of those things just felt that they were unnecessarily dragging out a very depressing and tedious experience.
I also didn't like that most of these vast worlds seemed to just be empty space to get lost in. The notes served no purpose anymore. In Banjo Kazooie, it felt very satisfying because every single part of the world you were in had a purpose for something, and the notes were spread out very strategically over the entire world so you could track your progress. You could tell exactly how much of the world you had covered by what your note count was. If you had 50 notes, you'd explored half the level. If you had 94 notes, you could be sure that there was a small area in that level that you had missed. Banjo Tooie though basically just gave you all 100 notes as soon as you started the level. What's the point of that? Why even have them at that point? And then you have no way of knowing how much of the level you had actually explored.
I haven't played much of Kazooie but I was a huge fan of Tooie growing up. I'll say that, for my part, some of the things people complain about it are things I liked about it.
For example, with the backtracking, I considered that a plus because it makes the game less linear, you see. Levels in the game aren't "single use", they're still in play much later in the game. And the interconnectedness of it all makes it feel like more a lived-in world and creates a strong sense of scope.
Never played Tooie but one of these days I will. Looking forward to the circus world when I do lol!
We love the circus here
Love both, but I do prefer Kazooie's approach more having less walking.
Both are good games but Tooie is far superior, in my opinion. The first game is so much easier and more straightforward, but Tooie has much more interesting of a challenge. It connects the worlds of the game in such neat ways (they’re not connected at all in Kazooie), and the themes of the worlds are great, too. I love how you learn new moves that allow you to split up and do separate moves as Banjo and Kazooie separately!
Tooie > Kazooie
why did you not use ther cheat code in the game to get more speed?
4:12 actually, there is a power up that doubles your speed. It’s called super banjo. Enter cheato and then super banjo in the cheat room in mayahem temple
Also, Grunty industries is the best level in any game ever.
Banjo Kazooie, I'd the game where I could start playing, and 5 hours later, I'm on my 75th Jiggy and still immersed in the game.
Tooie was the opposite because it was too large for its own good, and every single jiggy required a lot of backtracking. It's not a bad game, but it does become tedious.
SUPERBANJO. As a kid this was my go-to cheat
I absolutely agree I should have known this while making a video about Banjo.
But I also believe it should have been a power up and not a Cheato code.
@ That's more than fair. I always enjoyed the mechanics of Tooie though.
People had a lot of time in the 90s and early 2000s lol..I'm just glad I had dragon Kazooie to enhance my gaming experience
I think the key word is ‘convoluted’. Both BT and DK64 were plagued with having puzzles with so many moving parts, often involving some sort of alt control challenge that ramps up drastically in difficulty at the end. Like, it’s not enough to just get to an area and do something with your base kit, you gotta do a button mash or minecart minigame
I think Tooie was a natural level up in terms of difficulty and I think the kids who played Kazooie grew up to be ready to handle Tooie 2-3 years later
I think Kazooie is the better game, but I do also have nostalgia for Tooie as well.
Banjo-Tooie was the perfect difficulty/complexity increase for 5 year old me growing into a 7 year old between the two releases. Except Canary Mary. Needed to get my dad to do the Cloud Cuckoo Land ones.
You have people who love Banjo-Kazooie, people who love Banjo-Tooie, & people who love Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. I personally love Tooie and the N64 version of Banjo-Kazooie doesn't hold your hand like the Xbox version does, the N64 version doesn't save your notes unless you get all 100 notes unlike the Xbox version that saves your notes. You could miss one note and without following the other notes you could never find it, I couldn't find the last note in Click clock wood on Xbox but on N64 I had no problem because the notes lead me to it
I just made a Defending DK64 video. And Tooie is next on my list. Seeing your video makes me want to push it out faster. lol
Good video tho sir!
DK64 deserves a good defence. Thanks friend!
@@OrenOfClubs I appreciate having discussions about these games! The more the better!
Personally I consider Banjo-Tooie the superior game. I just love the worlds and their themes, the interconnectivity, the new moves and gameplay elements, its atmosphere and so on. Also its graphics were top notch for N64 standards, especially with its dynamic lighting.
It's basically an open world game on the N64. And a lot of fun.
The only two weakpoints are its story and its performance.
I would've loved to see more evil doings of the witches, to make their presence more prominent.
And the performance is pretty bad, due to going way over what the N64 could handle.
I agree, though. I played tooie before I beat kazooie. I noticed how fast i was getting things in kazooie and easy too. Personally I prefer tooie over kazooie for nostalgia sake, but I still hate canary mary
Witchyworld IS the best and I also like Banjo Tooie more. Coincidence? I think not.
Great video!! As a kid I loved banjo tooie since you could really sink time in the game and playing it. The adventure lasted very long, and as a kid it felt like infinite replayability :)
Thanks! Tooie is really such a long game its surprising sometimes.
Funnily enough I've beaten -Tooie faster by 4 hours than -Kazooie lol
Honestly tho I enjoyed -Tooie so much more, partially cuz it didn't reset the notes count on death _seriously Rusty Bucket Bay Engine Room why do you exist_ but mostly cuz the worlds were absolutely amazing
You're not exploring isolated worlds in an evil witch's castle(?), you're travelling the whole island and visiting lively and wildly different places, some stuck in the past and some just funky
And the interconnectivity only adds to the experience, in fact I liked walking through the island so much I didn't even use the Silos for fast travel, if anything I wish more 3D platformers did the -Tooie level of interconnectivity between worlds
The only thing I'd wish is making Terrydactyland and Grunty Industries bit less confusing, spent like 2h in each just learning the layout
You just let me realize that adventure games are really my thing😂 I liked banjo kazooie its in my top 10 for sure but banjo tooie is next level. Its my all time favorite game. Not even zelda Oot or Botw can beat banjo tooie for me
As a kid there were many jiggies I Ieft on the table just because some of them are just far far more time consuming than others, the game feels like it's telling you, oh don't worry about this one unless you're super serous about fully completing the game, otherwise you're wasting your time.
My favorite thing about Tooie is that feeling of exploring and getting lost in this big world, though kazooie had a better hub world.
I would just like to point out that as great of a game BK is, its not perfect. Need a bring up Rusty "Fuck it" Bay? Still proud I managed to 100% that game back in the N64 days WITHOUT the note saving that the xbox has. In BT's case, its the one jiggy I ALWAYS save for last...Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckoo Land. I couldn't even get that jiggy until 3 years later when I was older and finally understood what causes Mary to rubberband.
It's too f***ing awesome that's the problem.
so true
This is literally why Banjo-Tooie was the superior game.
A quote from El Dorado. "Both. Both is good." They are good by their own merits. I agree strongly though that Grunty Industries took WAY too long to beat. The only level in the game that can take over an hour.
Banjo-Tooie was much better, the game itself was an improvement in every way.
I still loved it when I got it as a kid. But it took me until like 2023 to finally beat it lol
My problem with banjo tooie and rare’s other collectathons after Kazooie is that they thought “bigger=better” instead of trying to innovate and improve on kazooie, bigger does not always mean better
You get double the number of your moves, split pads, an absolute armory of eggs, a hell of minigames to play with your friends, an integrated 007 style FPS 4-player game.. dude, Tooie absolutely overdid Kazooie.
Tooie is amazing don’t understand this.
For me, Banjo Kazooie is not an enjoyable game. Meanwhile, I played the shit out of Banjo Tooie. And then I actually found a way to make Banjo Kazooie very enjoyable for me - save states in an emulator. I noticed that the things I really hated about BK was
1. the amount of time it can take to get back to a specific challenge and
2. notes not being saved and having to be recollected because of that score thing
Once I used save states and the game was more about overcoming platforming challenges instead of tediously re-gathering all the nonsense once I failed if that resulted in death, I really really liked what BK offered in its worlds.
Also, one thing imo BK really dropped the ball on vs. e.g. Super Mario 64 was that iirc, you needed like 900 out of 1000 notes to challenge the final boss, meaning you could only skip one stage if you got everything in every other stage, or just beat 90% of the game. Super Mario needed 80/120 or 150 (remake), and that gives soo. muuch. flexibility which I love when i do different kinds of runs, and imo that also lets Super Mario 64 stave off "burnout" way easier than having to complete 90% of BK every time you play it.
Banjo Tooie is imo just DK64 but fixed - not a stupid amount of collectibles locked behind specific characters and all that nonsense, and the sheer connectedness making it feel like a 3D metroidvania? Call me biased because I love metroidvanias, but it suckered me in. I'm also a huge sucker for gimmick levels, so the different things Banjo Tooie tried out and threw you into? Loved it. I actually love it more than DK64, Banjo Kazooie, or any other N64 platformer, yes even the iconic Mario 64.
Witchyworld really is Peak
before you flipped your critique into a praise I was thinking man this guy doesnt like adventure. I never knew there were people that didn't like Tooie until the last few years. I think this is a newer phenomenon where the bigger levels don't really impress like they used to now that we have crazy hardware capabilities and draw distances. I hear this a lot more frequently about Tooie nowadays but I never used to hear it. The thing I remember as a criticism was that the fairytale aspect from Kazooie was lessened without the characters rhyming. People used to always bring that up as a point of possible contention.
I have never heard someone say banjo AND tooie before 😂
sorry i loved Tooie as well as Kazooie and i find Tooie to be a way better step in tha right direction over Nuts & Bolts
Wooo, Witchyworld!
Best world
@@OrenOfClubs It really is. Has the puzzling adventure elements without feeling barren, convoluted, or tedious. And I always like a villainous theme park.
4:50 I believe this is the player's fault. If you know what you have to do and are good at orientation this level is no different than any other. You said it took you an hour to "get things rolling".
For me it took a little over an hour to 100% it. Once you know where all the paths lead you'll get to that moment where it just clicks. The problem is this level tries to make you do things out of order by design, so doing one thing after another is very helpful to not lose track.
i like bolth games
The quiz section of the banjo games are so ridiculous. Why should I have to answer questions that are made up about gruntilda?
They are funny once. On repeat playthroughs they can easily get annoying I feel
This game would have been better had they not messed up the controls
I grew up with bajo kazooie, never played tooie, tried tooie with the rare collection but couldnt get latched onto it, but your video makes me want to give it a second chance. Maybe i just wanted it to be ine thing but it wasnt that so i was turned off. But the way youre explaining things makes me think its doable now but i just hit that powerup problem you spoke of and that seems like a big issue.
I hope you enjoy the game! it is good. I feel like it isn't too bad if you do what I do and just chill and take it slow while trying to get the power ups first. There is also a cheat code that makes Banjo go double speed apparently if it really gets that bad for you.
There is a double speed power up actually. Its the superbanjo cheat code.