Wiring a relay: How & Why You Should Use Them On Your Project Tech Tip Tuesday
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Whether you are building a cruiser, a racecar, or a bruiser. Using relays in your wiring can improve the performance of whatever component is wired to it (such as a fuel pump, a fan, water pump, and more) as well as make the wiring more robust, durable, and functional.
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such an underrated channel! thank you for that, very nice!
This young man clearly knows his stuff..It's always been a dark art to me, but this does shed some light on it..Thank you..UK
Ditto
Just to clarify what you said about PWM, it doesn't exactly give you different voltages but instead gives you different duties. So for instance it will continually cycle from +12V to 0V hundreds or thousands of times per second and based on the commanded duty (0-100%) will determine the split between how long the pulse width stays at +12V versus 0V for each cycle. I'm just using +12 & 0 as nominal voltages here but think of it as high & low voltage depending on the application.
Who has the guts to even dislike this video? Man those tips are the best thanks motion raceworks
Very good... Your explanation is the best so far. At first I was thinking your wrong about 16;02 . But as I got to listen to you more, ok,,, the other videos I was listening to are wrong. Yours is right.
??????? WHERE ARE THE LINKS YOU SAID YOU WOULD ADD. ??????
Good knowledge!
I'll probably buy a 40 amp relay with a pigtail to learn more how electronic specs work.
excellent video thanks. you guys are helping me build my car.
Great vid.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Great video, thanks
Hi Doug , I’m putting in a gang switch box . How would I do a relay for this ? The box will be on the ceiling/ above the rear view mirror. 2 switches = KC Day Lighters then the other switches mainly led lights
Where would I place the relay ?
My 70' Nova, has the original resistance wire the ignition coil, now I have an Hei Distributor it needs better power would it be safe to use a relay and reliable. If relays are used for fuel pumps why not for a Coil.
Thanks clear defined video
My biggest takeaway was to remember some under hood lighting... @5:12 good info for all to know...electronics are my least favorite thing to deal with.
Your diagram shows 85 is for the switch but every other diagram I’ve seen shows 85 is ground ?
Congratulation to you
Thanks for the link 🥴
I thought 85 was ground and 86 switch?? Does it matter?
uhhh... Where does the FUSE come into Play, when Ur wiring That??!!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👀👀😁
Great video. Thank you
Where are the links? Great video but was disappointed at the end when I went to look for the links you spoke about..
Me too. Very frustrating.
Some things to take into consideration:
Length of wire in a circuit includes + and -. Remember when calculating voltage drop.
Design each circuit for 25% additional load over the fuse or circuit breaker rating.
Avoid any high amperage equipment in the passenger area.
I strongly recommend GXL or SXL crosslink polyethylene coated wires.
Use IP67 rated enclosures for your components rather than that marine grade crap which offers little to no dust or moisture protection.
Prewired relay sockets force you to use wires that are all the same colors which hinders repair.
87A is on DPDT relays. It is had never been used in SPDT relays. DPDT relays may be rare to you but they are not rare at all. Often used in interlock systems where you want to shut something off when another is switched on.
Relays and be bought with a resister or diode on the coil circuit to protect electronics from surges.
Micro relays can switch up to 40 amps and use the metric 280 configuration blades, terminals, and spacing. Amazing space savings can be achieved.
High power relays are great for switching loads of 100 amps but, the safest way to wire the system is to go directly to the starter motor through a battery switch like a Cole-Hersey M750 and then take power from the starter for your system. This not only will keep maximum loads off of electronics but, will allow you to crank the engine without energizing anything else for compression checks, etc.
I learned some hard lessons about automotive wiring in 50+ years since 1972 when I first got into drag racing. Got out of racing but have been in the industry one way or another my entire career in manufacturing and dealer support. Just retired last year so I actually have time to watch videos on the subject (I had no desire to "entertain" myself on off time with work related stuff). I thought your presentation was much better than most I watch. Obviously I don't totally agree but certainly enjoyed a video on the subject that didn't make me laugh.
Anyway, I hope you are keeping up your good work as I see this post is four years old. I'll bet you have learned a lot since you posted this. I was learning new things even as I retired and I loved every minute of it.
Did you know that 3M did a white paper on electrical tape flagging? I found it to be a good read, believe it or not.
Checkout the 280 footprint stuff. It is actually very cost effective. You can pick out an IP rated enclosure that is an open grid. Then you can populate the enclosure with any 280 component like, fuses, relays, jumpers, etc.
I used to make a 3.33" x 4.44" load center that contained 10 fuses (or circuit breakers), 5 relays at 30 amps, all of the seals, terminals, cavity plugs, brackets, with 10' wires for each input and output of the correct size if GXL wire for a total cost of $73.72. The finished product was IP67 rated and could be power washed. It took about 30 minutes to assemble on a normal day. If I didn't need all ten circuits, no problem. If I needed more I also had made up some two circuit relay block and five circuit fuse blocks in advance. Since I already knew what basic circuits I would be using regularly, most of the wire I used as function coded every 6" with its name and number. The additional price for that is included in the cost I gave. Be advised, there is a big learning curve involved with this method but, if you are going to be doing it for a living, your reputation is on the line with each and every thing you do so do it right. It will make the next major advancement that much easier.
Literally the best video on this I've ever seen. Currently wiring my truck, already knew how to use and wire a relay, but this video was great.
At 14:00, it makes no sense to have a larger wire from the battery to the relay than from the relay to the device being powered. The current entering the relay is equal to the current leaving the relay (Kirchhoff’s first law). These wires should be the same size.
Worth noting the electro magnetic coil contacts are interchangeable. 85 & 86, either can be ground or active
This young man has his "stuff"laced up tight. He's good at what he does and doesn't mind teaching others who are not as well informed.
Thank you for clearing up this issue for me Doug. I’ve been dreading a wiring problem for a little too long because the relays and wiring were pretty intimidating. But this clears up a lot of things for me.
Has anyone been able to find the links he was talking about adding to the comments
Nope. I looked too. No link that I can find. He said he was going to add part #s too. They aren't hear either. I've found that is extremely common for UA-camrs to say that they are putting info in the description and not do it. Very frustrating
You have to push "more" in the description, and in this video you have to push it again. Forget it. They are not there.
They’re there.
Great info... the MSD 7564 solid state relays are great compact and easy to wire. 4 in 1 relay
The wire gauge vs. length is key. Previouslyr I didn't know that you can get away with a smaller gauge wire over a short distance. Those Derale fans come with small short wires - and people would think, 'I just match that gauge' to run the wire to where you need to go, but in my measuring I needed a larger gauge. Maybe why a lot of people complain of their electric fans not flowing enough or prematurely failing.
Your built in light location is awesome!
What gauge wire did you use on the derale fans?
@@BALLERXD24 8 gauge copper stranded wire. If you search the web for 12v wire gauge distance voltage drop - you can calculate the specs needed for your application.
8 Guage is large wire. Like for a starter. You mean a # 8 wire?
@@MichiganRay Sorry about that. Not sure why I typed 8. I ran 10 awg from the fans to the fan controller and battery junction. I like run 4 awg to my starter which I'm sure is overkill but I assume 200amps.
But yes, you can't trust anything on the internet these days. 😅
what is the part number for the relay
Mate thank you, you are a legend. I have always get confused with relays but the way you explained it has now been implanted into my head and no longer have an issue. Champion! thanks again
awesome video and explanation of how to properly use relays to cure voltage drop problems. Thank you!!!
Link to the diagram you spoke of?
Just type "4-5 pin relay schematic" in your favorite search engine
@@laneeric Good info but that's not the link or part #'s they promised.
@@ToddKing If you can't decipher a simple 4 or 5 pin relay then maybe electrical wiring isn't for you. It's very simple.
Protect yourself from looking like a fool arounf folks thatr fly or drive RC model planes , cars or helicopters. We have had been offered on the market of RC brushless electric motors for near 30 years. Why they are just now being offered to the car community is beyond me???
70 or 80 amp relay EVERYTHING-this will bulletproof spades falling off and are more reliable-hella and bosch are the brands too use
Excellent Video, I needed a refresh on car wiring specifically my electric fan set up and FI system. Exactly what I needed for the next steps on my 1970 442 revival after sitting in my garage since 2005. Feel free to send donations lol
DIN 72552 standard states 85 should always be ground/negative and 86 should be switch/positive.
If you have a diode suppressed relay, you must ground pin 85 and hook power to pin 86 to energize the relay.
The relay I bought shows ground pin is 85 so I guess I have a diode suppressed relay. But what is a diode/what does it do?
@@cbd4734 diode is a means to unload the magnetic field in the relay coil. When power is disconected from the coil (control) then there is an inductive charge within that coil. If no diode is placed across the coil then you could have upwards of potentially 500v+. Not a big deal if straight to ground, but if the circuit is controled by a transistor/logic circuit then BOOOOOOM! Best practice is to use a diode. IN4001 is just fine between the +ve and -ve of the relay control coil. (Point the diode from -ve ->| +ve.)
@cbd4734 A diode can be compared to a check valve or a one way street. It will allow current to pass in one direction but not the other. Looking at it on a diagram the arrow points in the direction the current flows. Looks similar to this. ->|
Just saw this nice information. Question! PWM signal. I have an Edelbrock Pro-Flo4. It has a fuel pump double lead. A negative and positive feed that plugs into a remote fuel cell that Edelbrock makes. Now, this can be used to trigger a relay. I fallow the schematic it triggers by the negative wire. The ecu has a PWM that can be turned on and off. How can this be wired up to a PWM fuel pump? The fuel pump has a 9 amp limit on it. Only #18 wire. Plus anything more is too much draw through the ecu.
I have a side-by-side CanAm UTV with a 12V battery. There is a power distribution terminal under the dash that will energize when the ignition is on (there's a ground lug near by as well). Also, there are color coded wires passing through the firewall from this location directly to where the battery is located. I wish to provide power to my stereo, light bar, whip lights, back lights and rock lights via this power distribution terminal using rocker switches. My question is this...will this be too much for this terminal, and should I use an individual 30a or 40a relay for each device? Thanks in advance for your advice!!
Another question...regarding the relay...can I jump 87a to 87 to power my stereo even when the ignition key is off? I can power down the stereo manually. Hope that made sense.
What did "Everyone" do, before there were relays?
How did they use starters, fuel pumps, alternators, lights, "anything" you need a relay for now?
I was under the impression runnig the solonoid closet ti the fuel pimp, fan etc was the best wat to go?
I have a 4-pin horn relay and the numbers do not match your standard schematic. The 87 matches, and the 85 matches but my 30 is to the left, and my 86 is on the bottom. I want to get a socket but then the red cable would not match like yours.
Good vid but a bit schizophrenic, you talk as if you are dealing with complete amateur then use terminology that needs to be looked up, pick an audience, if you are trying to educate the average guy then define and explain everything, if more advanced than keep it advanced.
These Tech Tuesday’s are the BEST. Relays always challenge me a bit. Thank you for this Doug!
Great info this is helping me as I'm building a engine harness from scratch, and I actually incorporated a relay fuse box on my harness. I added it for ecu, accessory and fuel pump.
omg, first 12 of repeating the same thing over n over that he said in first min. last ten just gave me a headache, the time spent watching was like listening to classical music while kissing your sister...
Less talk more show. Diagrams etc. Some of us learn by seeing, talking for 20 minutes is painful to listen to.
NO vs NC and the amp ratings? You’d mentioned you were going to talk about it later in the video, but then never did.
I'm going to tune out but at least you're not saying relays make more power like some UA-camrs
You said the middle one on relay is not so important and if there is 2 cable power must plug from top to down on the relay cause my e280 mercedes is burning fuse
i wanted to put "parking lights and turn signals on my truck door. right now i just hook it to the turn signals . they blink but i want them on with my headlights and blink with the turn signals
Im trying to wire a trans coolant fan-I want it to come on when I start the car and go off when I kill it- Now I know that one wire goes to the ground One goes to the Batt and one goes to the fan-But I do not know what to wire the fourth wire to that only has power when I start the car-Its a 1999 Isuzu rodeo-thanks to anyone that can help
Great video but where are the diagrams
It would help also if you could mention the recommended wire cross sectional area to amperage usage so guys use the correct wire gauge.
Always use the same size wire if not 2 gauge sizes bigger, depending on your applications and distance between the relay and the battery..... d/c and a/c currents only have one thing in common, they both flow outside the wire not through it.... but thats a different story for a different time..... just like anything, resistance in an electrical system is bad there has to be some sort of balance..... the better the balance the less heat you are gonna generate the more resistance you have the more heat you tend to generate...... so much that, like he says in the video, eventually the wires can't feed or hold the capacity of said or required voltage, either blowing the fuse or causing a fire from melt down of an overloaded circuit..... also, the same goes for grounding situations..... one of the most commonly overlooked things is grounds...... the shorter and bigger the ground, the better and more solid connection will be for your systems..... one thing I've always believed in personally for my own self is always run a ground cable one or three sizes bigger that your positive leads that is required for your system if there's not a place to ground to in a short amount of distance...... last but not least..... soldering is a must for any high-end electrical system the less connections in the circuit the better and less resistance you will have..... in some instances if you wanna use crimp connections.... dont... those are for lazy people that do shit half assed or in emergency situations just to get themselves going in a pinch..... not mention they look like shit......or sometimes its the only thing folks have to get things done..... sometimes beggers cant be choosers..... remember the rules.....measure twice cut once.... do everything right the first time so you ain't sitting on the side of the road at 3am wishing you done it right from the beginning...... 😉 🤙✌
So is the wire that is needed to be a larger gauge the red wire? This maybe why I’m not cooling. And is this wire the one from the relay to the battery?
If you wire a relay with a diode like you are doing the diode wont work, 85 must be ground 86 is trigger
I have a question, I did not see you mention a Spike Diode in there, is not necessary? Thanks..
very well done video!! to clarify, you'd want to wire the relay close to the device you are powering? did i get that right?
Can i run a physical switch on the 85 or 86 and why would you use a switch on one side or the other to complete the circuit?
Thank you for this. It is a great help. Learned a lot. If I run 2 fans is on relay enough?
So I have a c10 where I threw a lm7 in and I have now bought a cpp tank they don’t give u instructions on how to wire there fuel pump it came with a walbro intake pump to give me 60 psi I got the relay you sell but I need to know what is a good 12 volt switch to wire it to I got gauges wired to my light switch so where should I go from there also do I have to run a inline fuse this is my first time wiring
If your wires are melting, you made a really, really bad fuse choice. 😂
Very informative...quick question. If I'm wiring three different set of LED lights would I need 3 relays. If so, would each of them have a wire going from the 30 relay connector to + battery. Please advise. Thx. Or is there a different way to do this.
I was personally taught the opposite way to wire this. Not sure if there is a difference??
How I remember is whatever you want coming out of 30 you put on 87 (12v/ground)
And whatever you use to trigger the relay (85) power or ground 86 is the opposite.
So 12 volt switched output would be
87 12v batt
85 switched 12v (key on & crank)
86 ground
30 output.
I've been doing it this way for year's.. is it not correct/same?? Serious question. Thanks great video!!!
You can do it either way. You can even put ground on 85 and your switch wire on 86. The coil doesn’t care as long as it sees 12v. just like the switching contacts don’t. Good question though. Some people can get confused on control voltage
Terminal 85 is ground & 86 is for the switch.
Do you really think that you are explaining something, that you think you make things clear to people who never did anything electrical (in cars)? I've seen 8 minutes of the video and you talk and talk and talk, it never ends. Do I remember what you were talking about? No, absolutely not.
Eplain things in a simple way by showing examples, either on paper or the real stuff. Don't just keep talking because it absolutely doesn't make things clear.
For me too sometimes listening is like being asked to eat a whole pizza in one bite. I slice things into smaller pieces.Hear a little bit. Think a little bit. Make notes or sketches until I can swallow that slice without choking. Then I start on the next slice. Soon I've kind of got it all. Sometimes the AH HA moment shows up way later. I always feel stupid in the beginning knowing that I'll feel stupider in the end, for feeling stupid in the beginning .No matter what, never complain about how a big free pizza is dished out.
Iv'e used the fifth pin on a 5 pin relay to trigger a warning on the dash for a car that had a remote battery cutoff switch. The cutoff switch would drain power if you didn't hit the remote switch to disconnect the battery. I put a flashing light on the dash so when you turn the ign key off the light would flash telling you the battery is still connected and to hit the switch to disconnect the battery. But once you turned the ign key on the flashing light would go out. Was pretty cool to figure out a use for the fifth pin even if it was rare.
Thanks for the great videos. Very informative. I could never understand what a relay was, but you explain it so well. I will use this relay for my fuel pump when I install my EFI while I consult your other videos.
DIN 72552 defines what those numbers mean.
how do you wire up a relay with a built in diode, is the wiring setup the same?
I used to have a very good understanding of relays. Not anymore
If you are having problems with an SSR switching off slowly it is a dead simple fix. Just add a resistor to the power on wire to earth with a high Ohms rating and it will drain the power from the SSR switch wire faster than it can decay. You just have to make sure that it doesn't load the switching power to much. Most SSR 's will have this built in but especially with PWM that isn't adjustable it can help due to the flyback diode . If you want to there are available relay bases from Hella, Navara and Bosch {they are the only ones I know of in Australia there are probably other brands in the US} that you wire and secure to where ever you are going to mount them. They all interlock together. This is good as you don't have to unscrew the relay to change them over and doesn't hang the wires from the connector. They look something like this autoandmarine.com.au/Relays-and-Bases/Relay-Base-With-Terminals
BY FAR, BEST VIDEO YOU WILL FIND ON RELAYS--TYPE, FUNCTION AND WIRING!
Spot on! Get them relays as close as you can to whatever your powering up👍🏻
It’s definitely nice to have nice long pig tails for the relays my old relays had fuses in the power feed..
they do have 100amp relays that you can wiring in as key on or key off definitely I nice option 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Your best tech tip Tuesday thx 🙏🏻 so much.
Every diagram I see on line has the 85 as the ground ?
Basically 30 is line and 87 is load, is that correct?
After many years of learning and using relays wrong. This video made everything very clear.
That car looks like a piece of junk. Does it run?
Awesome video man, Doug does a great job breaking it down Barney style for people like me🤣
😂 Thanks for watching!
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial How about adding the links and part #s you said you would?
finally really understand relays!!! Thanks for the explanation for us simple folks!! You got my sub!!
I was working one with helping a friend who's a painter that said he is constantly blowing out his dual paint sprayer pumps. First thing I notice was his 100 ft extension cord 16 gauge & motors was so hot it would burn your hand😮
After buying the correct gauge extension cord 12 gauge he was good to go. He had a huge voyage drop. The lower your voltage goes the higher the amperes are the motor are toast😮
THANKS , ONE !!!!
NOT POSITIVE , but I think what you meant to say was the LOWER YOUR RESISTANCE , THE HIGHER CURRENT FLOW .... thicker Guage wire has less resistance and is more CONDUCTIVE ....also the extension cords probably don't want to be EXCESSIVELY LONG .... only what 's necessary ....
my 2013 dodge dart goes in gear but won't move( clutch is good)
could you tell me what problem is
I know letters while trying to rewrite a book. Someone stole my g35 to bring back with kill switches and fuses pulled and most of the wires qre different while wondering size and properly relayed devices lead to a draining fault of bad ground. After this video i can now write a sentence and a day or two paragraph. Thank you. Anychance people make videos using 3d blueprint visuals? That just seems the most logic toretaian much needed info when working on relays
Nice video! I just finished my first relay project. I'm using two SPDT relays to turn off auxiliary power on my Dual Revolution lights when the turn signals flash. One controls the lights on the left and one for the right, they are wired as NC, and they are triggered by voltage going to the turn signal to cut the green light and allow them to be amber/red when the turn signal is illuminated and go back to green between blinks. It was fun to do, it's definitely an attention getter, and I was proud to get my idea completed, but I'm going to change it up slightly and add a strobe controller now.
[ENGINEER HERE]
Doubling up on relays is a risk. Since one contact will always engage first, the initial inrush current will go on that single contact for a short period of time. That degrades the contact faster, making higher resistance. They will not be balanced and have a limited life compared to a single contact of the proper rating.
For low-use applications or if you are only slightly above the single contact rating - it can work. It is, however, a compromise configuration that I am not allowed to use in a commercial application and choose not to do in my hobby projects. Consider getting properly sized relays.
Hey Doug, learned me some knowledge. I was using this MP 1050 double relay to power 2 fuel pumps, a 4303 as my secondary (hobbs switch controlled) and a smaller bosch pump as the primary for my turbo LS. So going to order another 1025 to run the smaller pump and wire the dual relays to feed only the big pump. My question though; throughout your video you keep saying 40 amp relay, but the 1050/1025 relays are actually listed as 30 amp relays. Did you just miss speak or are they listed incorrectly?
He touched on it about mid way through the vid. But most relays are 40amp on the NO (normally open) contacts and 30 on the NC (normally closed).In this case 30 to 87a is NC and 30 to 87 is NO. It’s also common practice (at least in years past) you can use a st85 solenoid. Which is a 80amp continuous duty solenoid that would be used like a starter solenoid on a ford etc. it is essentially the same as your standard relay just with a greater amp rating on the contacts and you only have 1 set of contacts. But super simple to wire. Your small studs would essentially be 86 and 85 on a standard relay and then your large studs one would be battery positive and the other is load side (device to receive power)
Thanks for the vid, very informative. Answered a few questions I had concerning wiring up a couple halogens on a pontoon build using relay a relay.
So my LED lights and Switch will be up front on my eBike handlebar and the relay +fuse and battery will be in the rear rack box. Is this bad? Is it more ideal to use a relay when your setup is: Relay+fuse+battery+lights closer and the switch with flimsy wire far away?
I only watched because you do Cleetus content. Thanks for the Bald eagles
What’s the best way to tie into the factory key switch? A) To retain the factory power distribution, and B) to activate a key on12V distribution block from the main cutoff switch with say, a 2 or 4 gauge wire feed? Thank you!
Most vehicles have an open (unused) power on when ignition switch is on terminal. Mount your relay as close to the component as possible so the heavy gauge (2 or gauge wire) are short (thus allowing the most amperage). The "trigger" line, in this case the 85 pin can be any gauge you want, it's not providing current, only a trigger voltage.
Where's the link to the diagram?
12 volt ninja! Great info guys
I love of he just threw the fuse. HAAHHAHA
Thank you so much for explaining all these in details! I'm planning to make a fuel pump kill switch for my project car, and I was thinking about cutting off the power wire for the fuel pump to insert a kill switch. However, since you mentioned the voltage drop, I realized that increasing the length of the fuel pump wire might not be a good idea. I'll probably insert the kill switch in the wire that goes to 85 (probably the ignition switch?)