Sansa's Prudence and Jon's Honor (The Future of House Stark) Game of Thrones
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2022
- This video (original version was created on August 23, 2018) is more about why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale. She didn't tell him because she didn't trust Baelish nor Jon's decision making. Sansa knew who Ramsay is, and she would not risk telling this information to Jon knowing his "brother" would be careless against Ramsay's battle plans. She may also be certain Jon would not accept the help from the guy who sold his sister to the Boltons. As for Littlefinger, he had planned about the battle in Winterfell long before when Stannis was going to attack the Boltons. His plan (telling to Cersei) was to wait for the two sides to battle each other until one is victorious. This is the definite reason why the Vale army had arrived late or came at the nick of time when the Boltons were unprepared.
Peter Baelish wanted himself to be the Warden of the North, but in order to achieve that, he needed either the Starks to win against the Boltons (for Ramsay would surely not give him that title) or the Boltons to defeat the Starks (with Cersei's promise). He definitely chose the Starks side due to Sansa. He was confident that if he helped Sansa, she would be proclaimed to be the Queen in the North, and his plan to take Winterfell will be to marry her or be rewarded for saving the Starks army. What he didn't expect and miscalculated was the Northern Houses and Bannermen chose Jon Snow to be the King in the North.
The second half of the video is about the future of House Stark, especially the foreshadowing and hints of Sansa becoming a Queen someday. Cersei's prophecy was foretold that there will come another, younger and more beautiful, to cast her down and take all she hold dear.
My interpretation was that Cersei loved all her children, but Joffrey was the one she held dear, mostly. And Sansa was the sole responsible of his death, unknowingly, once she told Lady Olenna and Margaery that "Joffrey is a monster." This gave the Queen of Thorns (and Littlefinger) a plan of conspiracy to poison the King and maybe put a blame to Tyrion. But that's just a theory/interpretation about the prophecy, which may not be true at all, just like many prophecies have turned out.
[My original description from the old video]
I made this video to show Sansa's prudence (her cautiousness of the future of House Stark) and her true intentions of why she lied to Jon (his honor was bound to make stupid mistakes-mistakes that both Ned and Robb lost their heads for it) and why she had kept the information about the Knights of the Vale. "Only a fool would trust Littlefinger."
Petyr Baelish's original plan was to attack the remaining forces of Stannis or Roose at the last second: "Let [them] battle. Let the enemies slaughter each other, and when they're done, sieze Winterfell from whichever thief survives." This is why the Knights of the Vale showed up very late intentionally. It was Littlefinger's brilliant plan.
(Please watch the video first before reading this.)
Regarding Cersei's prophecy:
"You have to leave home, you have to leave me, and so would you." -Catelyn
"You left your home to come here, and I'd be queen someday. Please make father say yes. Please, please. It's the only thing I ever wanted."
-Sansa (S1E1)
"Yes, you'll be queen for a time, and comes another... younger, more beautiful to cast you down and take all you hold dear."
-the witch (S5E1)
The casting you down and take all you hold dear: It's all about Joffrey. Cersei loved her children, but not as much as Joffrey. (Same reason Catelyn pleaded emotionally for Robb's life: He's my son. My first son.)
Sansa was the sole responsible for his death. Not literally, but the product of it. Remember the scene where she met the Tyrells. She told the Queen of Thorns while sobbing, "He's a monster." That directly gave Lady Olenna a motive for killing Joffrey. To protect her granddaughter. Margaery was a red herring. (Tricky George RR Martin.)
Sansa will be queen at the end, whether in the North or the Seven Kingdoms-either way, she will be Queen. (These are merely speculation/prediction; I'm quite adamant these things will be wrong.)
#GameOfThrones #HouseoftheDragon #Sansa #JonSnow - Розваги
I like the fact that when Sansa calls Tommen a bastard too, Ramsay doesn't argue with her. She would know the best out of the pair since she's been to King's Landing, she's seen Robert, Tommen, Cersei, and Jaime, she can actually tell he's a bastard
I’m glad you showed the scene of Sansa sending the Raven. People forget about that as it was a Hail Mary.
No one forgot that. We just know it was absolutely pathetic to claim that she's the reason they won the battle of the bastards. Her withholding information from Jon and sending the raven too late cost thousands of lives, give or take, and didn't make her a hero. It made her selfish, childish, and an awful tactician. Not only that she swore she'd keep Jon's secret and was telling Tyrion within an hour of learning it. Nothing about her happy ending is deserved.
@@billbrobaggins221 everything about her ending was deserved because she played the game in order to get it, hence the title of the show is ‘Game of Thrones.’ Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.
@@jjh2456 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely none of her ending was deserved because the writing was abysmal. Yes, they wrote that she was amazing and we were meant to simply accept it like when Arya quite literally says “She’s the smartest person I know”. That’s bad writers telling you how to feel instead of showing you. What we were shown indicates that she’s of low to at best average intelligence, has little to no honor, and would never have earned the support of the hardened northern lords.
We are told she deserves what she got and they forcibly made little finger a complete moron to ensure Sansa could “outsmart him in the end” but little finger was only as smart as the writers on the show. The same writers who had Varys sending dozens of scrolls by raven flagrantly announcing his betrayal and guaranteeing his execution.
Sansa is one of the worst characters in the show. Her ending arch was objectively unearned and absolutely terrible. She didn’t play the game of thrones and win. The writers were just bad at their jobs and not actual fans.
Another example; The writers also had the Unsullied sailing to the isle of Naath where within a day or two of landing they’ll all be suffering and dying from butterfly fever (google it if you like). They’re morons.
@@billbrobaggins221 it’s clear that you like Marvel movies. Go there for your cliches.
@@jjh2456 Says the one trying to defend the writing in season 8
It made no sense sansa didn't tell Jon about knights of Vale
Agreed, she seemed more concern with her own position than defeating the Boltons.
@@mytube650well if he is half as smart as she sometime looks like
she knew that card, was traped
it's only with the litle brother return and it's info + being strongh enough she probably realised how much and could act
How Jon Snow became lord commander is just crazy n Sansa didn’t even know until Ramsey told her
The utter irony of olenna stating how horrible one myst be to kill a man at his own wedding, as she was killing a man at his own wedding 😂
olenna, tyrion,arya and jon avenged the red redding
People don't give Sansa enough credit for undoing clan Bolton.
Yeah because that nowhere near equals the amount of things she has F'd. And halfof it was intentional. She lacks th most valuable and greatest quality of all...integrity
Listen man. She knew she had the knights of the Veil. Had she told Jon, he would have changed his battle plan and they would have come out on top without losing as many people as they did. All those deaths are on her hands.
What credit? Littlefinger wanted to get into her pants, and happened to be in control of the most potent winter fighters in Westeros(Knights of the Vale), whom he directed into battle for her.
She has some attributes, but careful where credit is given.
Peaple agree that she fuxks up more
I did notice that scene where she sows the seed of doubt in Ramsey
Sansa, the one Stark who actually got "THE GAME"....This was a good edit.
Except she didn't? She just suddenly started acting like everything she said was smart when she actually was trying to force thr wrong decision at every single turn.
@@mistermonologue2442 She was right to want Winterfell back. It was the seat of power in the North. She knew Cersei was a liar and her and Arya's instincts about Dany were true.
@maestroclassico5801
Lmao everyone knew Cersei is a liar and it's a testament to her stupidity that it took Sansa so long. Her "instincts" regarding Dany were jealousy and fear of something being higher up the chain of command than her (which she extended to Jon nearly getting him killed trying to be a Lannister and play their games instead of building her family). Which she didn't even learn a lesson from because she destabilized the north at every turn because she would rather be the leader she doesn't deserve to be than back Jon up.
Fr. Sansa saw the truly game of thrones being played down in Kingslanding.
@@mistermonologue2442 I can definitely tell its one of dumb and dumber rushed character development. She was pure nonsense and luck, like she just woke up in s6 and started talking big.
This is one of the best GoT edits I have ever seen!
This is such a beautiful montage!
one of your best; gonna have to watch more than twice
Thanks. If only there's a way to make all of them 4k or 1080p.
The North Remembers.
One of the rawest UA-cam videos fr
This is a great edit.
This was a very well done video! Enjoyed! ty
Beautiful edit ❤
This just now hit me at 20:40 . Tormund sees Brienne for the first time. Love at First Sight.
Your edits shine miles above any other Ive seen on UA-cam period.
I truly hate what they've done with Jon in the show. LOOK AT HIM. In the novels, Jon is intelligent, observing and a strategist. While he is honourable he doesn't let it cloud his judgement. Unlike Robb, he can be ruthless when necessary. While Bran is destined to become Three-Eyed-Raven, Jon is destined to become Bloodraven, a king in all but name. You can totally see the parallel between Jon and Bloodraven. In the show, he looks like an idiot. There's a difference between stoic and clueless.
Loyalty. Resolution. Realism. Courage. Love.
I still have no idea why sansa wouldn't just tell jon that she can sway the eyrie army to help them, would make the battle of winterfell so much easier to plan out, but no she keeps a vital secret from him.
If there's one person sansa could trust its always her family, she considers him a stark, sure doesn't seem like it when you keep a secret like that.
You do not make a battle plan with an army you don’t know is coming. You saw her send the Raven in this video and there was no answer.
@jjh2456 they were only planning because they were under the assumption that there was no more forces coming to their side. Regardless if they waited or not. If Sansa talked to him in private even just to say hey wait for a week maybe two, I have contacts in the vale maybe they can help.
It was never shown if she got a raven back or not about the vale. They didn't have to plan around having the vale or not but keeping that a secret is tactically dumb of Sansa.
I think the point was that she didn't want to ask little finger for help. Being what he did to her that makes sense.
In Sansa's position, I wouldn't trust Jon. Jon doesn't play dirty, he's too honorable for that. She can trust him to be loyal to her, but they have been separated for years. They didn't even have a close relationship before they left Winterfell. Sansa doesn't trust Baelish either. She can only trust herself, and she suspected Baelish may come to their defense, or betray them. If Jon thought the Vale army was riding North to help them, he would have made all of his plans with that in mind, which would have been disastrous if Littlefinger did betray them by not bringing the army. Sansa gave herself a trump card and bypassed allowing Jon to make a mistake.
@@Hugo-G I think you make a good point. I was thinking of it more in terms of emotionally, but you're definitely right that she learned that she can't trust him.
On the other hand, why didn't she tell Jon to wait and see if they come?
13:08, this editing was fabulous 😂
1:38 Sansa called Tommen a bastard. Was it widely known then?
Those high enough in the know knew it well enough. An open secret amongst nobles.
King of the North
This edit deserves more views
If you ask me who's the best character in got, I would say it's Tyrion Lannister, without any doubt. He's a good, kind-hearted man with enough brain to keep him alive throughout his journey.
S7-8 got a lobotomy
YASSS!
I find it sort of funny, how the show pretty much does not give a f*** about the other Stark siblings ^^
Not sure what you mean?
Rob’s course was preset by the book, Arya showed tremendous resilience and a warrior spirit, Bran rose from going cripple, to 3-eyed raven and king! Jon…….could’ve been a better, but had his moments!
Rickon’s course (by the book) is no better than running around on the isle of Skaggos, versus dying on the show. He never had a good arc. Everyone else either did very well or died early as expected (Rob).
I know it’s pretty clear d&d only gave Sansa more screen time is because they favoured Sophie turner and her character, in the books it’s Jon & Arya who are the closest in the starks siblings so they gave Sansa the fArya plot, because they found her vale storyline “too boring for tv” hence why George himself was pissed about that decision.
@@thespacewitch2246 makes a lot of sense... yet from a personal story-telling point of view, it always struck me as odd, that even for those characters you don't see that much persepctive towards e.g. Rickons. alomst like they didn't care for him that much as well ^^
@@thetomster7625 Honestly he should of played a bigger part they should of made him King in the north over Sansa, her character is a cersei 2.0 power hungry. She should have honestly died in the long night episode.
@@thespacewitch2246 well I guess the question is "how much Stark children can one show take" ^^
every one of them has his or her own big story, so to establish yet another character that is cool enough to become King (even if only of the north) would be a lot.
and regarding Sansa: she became this kind of power hungry more and more, but she also plays the game much better then e.g. Jon. He's great, but appart from fighting "the big war" he does not REALLY have a vision. And even less we know of Rickon
Sansa was really stupid in that season(not that she was ever smart to begin with) but i honestly blame the writing for that. Even though season 6 was mostly good, wtf were they thinking? She's like a bipolar.
You have to have some kind of balls to go into a battle KNOWING the numbers are NOT in your favor and do it anyways.
Seen a lot of movies in my life since I was given birth to. But this one movie, will always be at the helm of them all. Kudos to R. R. MARTINS.
? What does this comment even mean? If this is the best TV SHOW you've ever seen you're genuinely got a pretty awful opinion on good TV shows 😂
@@hal0justcal865
My opinion, your headache!
@@belloabdul-hamid2259 it's not an opinion. It's not a movie and his name is George R. R. Martin.. regardless of your awful opinion the phrasing hurts
@@hal0justcal865
I don't care about whatever you think it is.
The freaking title to this upload 😂 this guy Clearly hates Sansa, I mean MEG.
Unfortunately reserved trailblaze power can't go above 2400
Sansa: You abandoning your people!!!!!!
John: I leave them in good hands.
Sansa: Whos???!!!!
John: Yours.
Sansa in her head: Ok John you can leave now. Bye.
Except the bologna with Rickon, who is still alive in the book-verse.
If she would just pulled Jon to the side (alone) and told him the nights of the vale was coming, the battle would have been different. Yes Jon did win, but at the cost of half his force.
Why people keep blaming Sansa for the army of the Vale? She couldn't tell him that was probably selling herself to get army and littlefinger could betray her again. Imagine if they told the army that they would get allies that maybe could betray them. In this video Jon kept saying that they didnt have time to get more people. She wanted to get more people. Jon was also stupid but people keep defending him
Bro that’s so powerful that Sansa lied to Jon and didn’t tell him abt the vale until thousands of men died.
Sansa: “Why haven’t you asked for my advice?”
Jon: “Okay, what should I do?”
Sansa: “iDk aNyThInG aBoUt BaTtLe!!!”
Sansa is so fine
Sansa: "Listen to me, I know the guy!"
Jon: "Then what should we do?"
Sansa: "I dont know! I dont know anything about war!"
She told him to not to try and save Rickon. Are you honestly that dense?
@@jjh2456that's it? Anyone could've given that advice really, and that's part of the plan anyway
John was never lord of winterfell
"has it ever occurred to you that I might have some insight"
and where exactly was she while this war council was happening? And my immediate response would be.
Okay. Here are the battle plans. What would you change? Like ffs I remember this scene being so goddamn pointless. It was just a rant purely just to virtue signal and berate the "patriarchy"
ACTUALLY HAVE THE GIRLS DO SOMETHING. Not hand them little piddly victories and kill steals of the main bad guy.
hey uninstall your editing software thanks
sansa's position is clear, shes been captured by every single enemy in the world, she knows all there is about being captured by every enemy in the world 🤣🤣🤣 i wouldnt listen to a single thing that meat head had to say
LOL you didn't create anything related to the story but think you can fill in what you want & make it there story you want. You are clearly a fan & entitled to your opinion but you saying or reading between the lines doesn't it so. There's a reason especially in TV not everything is explained it draws viewers or readers into the story & allows them to fill in the blanks but doesn't change the real story.
Littlefinger, I think, knew about Lyanna and Rhaegor all along and may have realized Jon's true identity....
If varys didn’t know then little definitely wouldn’t have know.
@@easyevil5943 I bet Varys had suspicions.
There is a theory, that Littlefinger on his way back to the Fingers after being kicked out of Riverrun, walked into Rhaegar and Lyana rendezvous at the Inn at the Crossroads near the Trident. And then when Brandon Stark came looking for him (bc he claimed to have slept with Catlyn and actually got Lysa pregnant), he blurted out about R+L, thus causing Brandon to go to King’s Landing calling for Rhaegar’s head, which then led to the Robert’s Rebellion.
@@sushivision Makes a lot of sense to me.
Those lines of dialogue are actually taken from one of Ned’s chapters in the first book.
A queen that never fought alongside her people. Heck she never swung a sword.
The fact they made Sansa queen when she was the least stark of all the kids lie the most the least trustworthy is crazy to me still till this day you got the throne by betraying Jon 😂 like wtf
Sophie Turner is one beautiful woman!!!!!!
Sansa is just a play girl for any upper hand person in the game......but snow is beyound anything.....
Every word out of Sansa’s mouth is insufferable even years later
cry about it! you don't understand realism.
But she’s right and it pisses you off.
@@jjh2456 She's only right because she knew info Jon didn't and willfully kept it from him. Jon was also right. His army was all he had and they literally had no other choice but to go the route he planned. Had Sansa not kept quiet, it would be different.
@@ndt7379 cry them salty tears. Sansa only did what Tywin did and Blackwater and Stannis did at the Wall.
@@jjh2456 You're taking this way too personally, are you okay? Tywin and Stannis didn't keep crucial information from his allies or superiors that could risk them losing the war. I don't know how you could make that same comparison.
Sansa have been so stupid whole life then came out saying no one can protect her. She kept on refusing her father’s advice brother’s advice. Only listened to little finger and thought that she learned her lesson. Always wanted to kill Danaerys more than she wanted to kill Cersei just because of jealousy. Worst character of whole series.
😑
Just to be clear Sansa absolutely sucks and her happy ending is completely undeserved. I mean they could have made it decent but absolutely not, no. The writers were awful, they rushed it, and not only does she suck but she absolutely did not deserve to be "Queen in the North" and none of the Northern lords would respect her ascension whatsoever. The writers weren't fans and didn't do their research and it shows. Lets also not forget that her immediate betrayal of Jon when he made his sisters swear not to share his true birthright had a great deal to do with the spiral of Daenerys. She's the least honorable Stark and people who like her are delusional 😇🖤
HONOR?!
Keep malding.
@@daughterofpalestine7130 malding? Not sure what that is but I’ll assume it’s cope for not having a valid counter point. You should aspire to write for Dave and Dan’s next project. Your bar for quality appears similar 👍🎉
Sansa is annoying
People who don't get Sansa's decision making and her character are really stupid, which is the majority of GOT fandom, then again, most people aren't that clever either. People only think they are smart because the writing is on the nose, but they are too stupid to even realize that. Sansa was literally betrayed by everyone she has met since going to kings landing, except for Tyrion. She knew how gullible Stark men were, also how gullible and honorable Jon was. She knew that if she ever told Jon about littlefinger and her intentions to use him, Jon would have never agreed or listened to her. The only thing GOT didn't do right with Sansa was, not give her enough scenes to show her playing the game better than anyone else at that point. It made people think like she was being smart without a background, and make her look like she was betraying Jon, which brings me to my original point of people not being too clever about what they are watching. Perfect example of this is when people thought she was a terrible person for telling Tyrion about Jon, though she did betray his word (which is a bad thing sure), she is the reason why we didn't get a mad queen to rule and North ended up being a free land.
I mean yeah, she learned the game of thrones from little finger and cersei and it made her ruthless, hateful, and condescending. While Jon learned the most import lesson in the show from jeor "when the dead march do you think it will matter who sits the iron throne". Aside from sandor every other character is sacrificed for her minor development, little finger, tyrion, jon. Jon is more desperate then stupid, but sansa is more cersei then catelyn.
Literally thousands died because she didn't tell jon about vale and that doesn't make sense she came with army of the vale to defeat boltons but didn't told jon that was just plain stupidity.
@@mohit6657 literally thousands were gonna die either way. You have no point
@@resulnaki bruh how dumb are you?? Do you know anything about tactics and strategies people use to win war??
every word is correct. there are a lot of passionate GOT fans who came in during its peak in popularity that just have really poor media literacy, and it shows up hard with this subplot.