Beyerdynamic DT880 600Ω _(Z Reviews)_ ⚡ G. O. D. ⚡
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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Have an old Speaker amp? YOU CAN RUN THESE!! Just assemble these two things.
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My advice however is still not to exceed 100wpc and know that Class AB (full size) amps will work better then Class D most likely. Since 600Ω load on a 50wpc(8Ω) is about ~500mw of power.
IE DON'T BLOW YOUR HEADPHONES UP!! START SMALL AND LOW.. MOVE UP. BE SAFE.
I use them with my xduoo xd-05 plus und I love them :-)
@Richard Gilbert I'm doing the same, though I do notice the general noise floor of the amp, have ordered some 25 Ohm resistors rated 25W to try kill it, happens even without any input signal, hence the resistors, have you had a similar issue?
@Redpill Progressive The obvious ones are there. Its when there are 3-4 sounds a minute. THATS when you realize.
@Blue See the M200 review I put out 3 days ago. I released out of order.
balanced mod them m8
I've been tellin ya about these for 3 years! They're SOOOOO GOOOD
we all know Zeos has shitty ears :))) just mocking around Zeos !!! to me they a bit to bright and boring....
Can the 250 ohms or 32 ohms sound as good as the 600? Thanks :)
Suck it DMS
david rasura yes, sure
I'm really curious what you power them with
Resistance (or impedance which is basically complex resistance that depends on frequency) tells you how much current will flow through the headphones at a given voltage. The relation is given by current = voltage/resistance. The power is the current times the voltage, or voltage^2/resistance. Audio amplifiers amplify the voltage, and the current will depend on the load.
Voltage is the "electrical force" over the headphones and the current is defined by how many electrons actually move through them. Think of it like a hose with a nozzle. The pressure would be the voltage, the water flowing out would be the current and how tight the nozzle is would be resistance.
What this means is that low impedance headphones can cause the current to be the limiting factor for when clipping occurs in the amp, while high impedance headphones require larger voltage swings to achieve similar power levels.
These headphones for example are rated for 100mW max power. This equates to 7.75V. That same voltage level (same volume setting on the amp) in a 25 Ohm headphone would result in roughly 2.4 watts, or 2400mW (as long as the amp can provide the current).
Therefore it is so much harder to power high impedance headphones, even if the sensativity is high.
That is what Ohm's law boils down to. But I think the explanation sounds a bit backwards? The voltage drops on resistance not the current. If you have a linear resistor, proportionally to the current the voltage will drop. On a non linear resistance the current will drop in relation to the logarithms of the current. If you think you current as how many electron move, putting them in wire at X Volt and then making the wire much longer so that the resistance goes up, your still putting in the same number on electron and they don't disappear, so the voltage has to go down.
@@miagi1337 aahh yess, brings back memories about the RLC diff eq, laplace, even Fourier ❤️
Thank you. Saved me the time.
ELI5!
How does ohm affect sound quality? Would you say that high ohm sounds better?
Vote this up. So he can do a AMP contest with all the AMP's he have and the Beyer DT 880 600Ohm. That would be awsome,!
X2
Yeah, no point using amazing headphones if the amp is underpowered.
I’ve owned these for almost a year and you made me doubt if I’ve ever actually listened to these before...
You may need a better (or different) amp tbh
Jared Ferguson I’ve been using them through an atom amp mostly. More powerful than the 789 but yeah, probably need a new amp lol
@@ethanwasserman4054 789 is loads more powerful than the Atom.
@@CristianGarcia-cs7ke atom is slightly more powerful single ended
@@ethanwasserman4054 yeah I mean sometimes it's not even about power, some amps just react differently with some headphones
So I bought the DT880s and the Emotiva BasX and installed the jumpers.
Everything Zeos says is pretty damn accurate.
There's nothing remarkable about these headphones on an JDS Labs Atom, even though it has enough to power them. The Emotiva just provides crystal clear power and gives these headphone life. The response is so neutral that you can listen to your songs louder than with other headphones, and details just flow out from the noise floor effortlessly. The DT990s also sound phenomenal on the BasX.
I read a lot of forum posts of people looking to amp match with the DT880s and the consensus seems to be "Zeos is crazy, just use an Atom/Magni/Fiio". I can't overstate how terrible of a sound my Atom produces on these compared to the BasX. Don't rob yourself of an amazing experience - if you have these, get an Emotiva to push it to the brink. Everything else is just training wheels.
I also have this combo and agree completely. It truly sounds fantastic. I got the DT880s and then read about the DT990 600ohm and had a little bit of buyers remorse. Which set do you prefer on the BasX?
@@Rickcscott The DT990s have a lot of "wow" factor because it's so V-shaped, but honestly I can't listen to them longer than 5 minutes. You can only turn music up until the cymbals and snare almost kill you and even then, the lows and mids are often too quiet to hear. Would not recommend (as someone who's owned them for 9 years).
@@TheRagingPeen Thanks for the reply!
Without spending crazy money, what’s the best DAC to run with the BasX if I get the dt880 600ohm? I currently use a sennheiser HD58x jubilee with a sennheiser gsx1000 amp/dac combo so this will be a big jump for me. Thanks!
Which amp variant do you have! They have the basX100 all the way up to 500.
I don't watch z reviews all the way through usually, but when I started watching and saw the wallpaper I knew I had to go all the way.
Honestly upon re-watch for links.. I think I undersold these. I was so afraid that people would hear the BUCKETS OF PRAISE, buy them, not power them right and say I am wrong. I never turned it up to the 13 that these require. They are God-Tier, S-Class Stupid. You have however already been warned about the prereq.
Now go back and try the treble heavy murder cans that are dt990s 600 ohms with the Emotiva BasX A-100. I freaking hate them unless I'm using the Emotiva with the resistor bypass. The highs become tamed yet keep their amazing detail and the lows are unreal. I used the second gen Schiit stack with them and could barely get sound at any worthwhile volume. They sound like straight crap out of the Jotunheim single ended as well as about six different amps I've tried, including the DarkVoice - I had high hopes for it. But damn does the Emotiva make them sing. Anybody who's trying to drive this from their PC and says they're good are either flat-out crazy, have no idea what good sound is, are lying, or a combination of all these things.
They work fine off my Magni 2. Unless I'm missing something. And from what I've read I'm not alone. And before I bought the Schiit I asked them if it could power these. They said, "yeah no problem."
They do a 32 ohm and a 250 ohm
Clinton Moffat 32 or 250 don’t sound the same.
can i hear god with these?
I just wanted to say that I watch this review once a week. The quirkiness of the 600 ohms video is everything that is fun and interesting about the hobby. Easily my favorite headphone review and the reason I keep coming back to the channel.
I rewatch many of his reviews LOL
I like to imagine that when Z runs these the lights in the whole neighborhood start to flicker.
Lol. It's funny, but no. Your fridge consumes more power.
A 600-ohm headphone maximizes the BL product of the transducer - the product of the magnetic field strength in the gap (B) and the length of conductor immersed in the magnetic field. This increases the load on the amplifier but also increases efficiency of the transducer somewhat to compensate. The BL product is equal to the number of newtons of force per ampere of current that the coil can exert on the diaphragm. But adding more turns of wire also turns the speaker into a more effective generator, and when driven by an amp with low output impedance, that makes the coil a very effective electromagnetic brake. This means the coil has a ton of control over the small speaker diaphragm in the headphone driver, and this will change the bass character of the headphone to a more damped character. Less tubby or fluffy, and more tight and precise. This is provided that you can supply enough voltage for the speaker or headphone driver to make enough output.
Zeos, send those to Custom Cans in the UK - they specialize in converting those to fully balanced. Amazing work. They're working on a pair of 1990s for me right now.
got mine from custom cans, they are so good its hard to believe 👀
I learned a long time ago to not underestimate Beyers, they have absolutely fantastic drivers. Any of the mid-tier Beyers, especially the 600 Ohm versions can punch way above their price point in terms of sheer fidelity.
I gotcha'.
An ohm is the unit of measurement for electrical resistance. You can think of it as the ratio of voltage to current.
Placing 1 volt across 1 ohm will yield 1 amp of current flow.
Placing 1 volt across 2 ohms will yield 0.5 amps of current flow.
Placing 5 volts across 8 ohms will yield 5/8 amps of current flow.
Importantly, power is the product of voltage and current. At higher resistance, a higher voltage is required to create the same current. In fact, power is voltage squared divided by resistance. (P = V^2/R).
Edit:
2V/80ohm = 0.025A (or 25mA) -> .05W (audible)
2V/600ohm = 0.003A (or 3mA) -> 0.006W (inaudible)
[End edit]
All of this assumed a non-reactive (purely resistive) load. Capacitance and inductance change this relationship based on frequency.
Well since the sensitivity is typically around 90-110dB/mW the inaudible part is not really true. These headphones for example are 96dB/mW so with the 6mW @ 2V you get about 104dB SPL which is very audible. Nice and clear explaination otherwize :)
There is also the point of dimishing returns when it comes to power. An increase of 3 dB always requires twice the power.
You shouldn't use gain III when your DAC is feeding more than 2.1Vrms into the 789, that's why it's distorting (clipping, actually). It can only push a maximum of 1.3W @ 32 Ohms out of SE outputs when using 2Vrms input and gain III. That's barely enough for the 600 ohm DT 880.
An Asgard 3 would be a much better amp for these.
I totally agree with this review.
I thought I was insane for thinking that these old 600 ohm beyer dt880 were at the highest of levels.
And true they do need a power plant to be driven properly.
I would also suggest that a well driven hd650 sound amazing too, cause they scale with power.
But I would take the dt880 cause it's more comfortable to me, and it sounds close to a z1r just with a bit more treble.
A Z1R ??! Are we talking about the bassy sony closed cans ?
Nah, Z1r is way more colored, so less neutral and less natural sounding with a smaller soundstage (closed) ans the bass is slow and bloated in comparison. 70mm drivers are hard to control, to hard for Sonys approach.
Besides that comparing a 160 EURO DT 880 600ohm (here in germany) to a 1500 - 2000 EUR Z1r closed back is out of proportion.
Its not overly bassy.
Once provided with more power than required lol.
I mean yeah the drivers are huge but once enough power is fed into it.
It starts to sound huge and extremely impressive.
The dt880 600ohm isn't that good but it's great in it's own way, I still like the t1 2nd gen more, but still for the little amount of money you pay for it.
Its amazing.
The woo audio wa22 + z1r = audio nirvana, it's just weird how amazing that set up sounds especially to my ears, and I've 40+ top end headphones and I'm still shocked by the z1r.
What's a cheap way to power them?
@@jaredferguson2999 thx aaa 789 or the 887.
At the very least.
You can enhance the quality by using a quality dac.
If you cheap out a little with the amplifiers.
Use something like an rme adi dac or mytek Brooklyn dac+
I pulled the trigger on these as soon as i saw the Tygr review. That sneaky mention of them made it obvious these really tickled your beak :D I do have the basx a100, cant wait!
Ok. I have several hours clocked with this combo. This could well be a damn near perfect listening experience for me, every thing is just THERE. Comments made in this vid around the presentation of those normally recessed details are 100% accurate, without exaggerating or over-blowing other aspects of the mix.
Fuck this is good. Or do i mean G. O. D.
The power hunger is very real tho; im at -12 on a D50s and at 12 o'clock on the emotiva...it is not at all 'loud'.
@@Beardman56 how'd you get on? Im finding hard to put em down.
Also got this combination. They sound phenomenal for the price.
@Taffey Lewis hey. Could you do me a huge favor and tell me everything i need for these to work? I buy the dt 880s? (what if i got the 600 ohm 990s instead?) then i buy the basX. then i have to buy a dac too? and plug it all into my sound card on my pc? Im confused.
@@teejjonson8523 I have no idea bout the 990 600ohm, so cant vouch for them.
Your options would be;
* Use your PC (depending on outputs available from your PC) RCA out from PC -> RCA Input on BASX
* Buy a DAC; (depending on DAC you purchase) USB or Optical out from PC -> Input DAC -> RCA out from DAC -> RCA Input on BASX
Plug in cans. Try not to blow them up. Profit.
11:12 !!! PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: the impedance on DT 880, is marked on 3.5mm jack
I finally got the A-100 and DT880 600Ω, and it sounds great..natural, smooth yet detailed.
p.s.
5 months later I got WA6-SE. More then capable to drive DT880 660Ω if you want a more expensive alternative to A-100
tubes are way better option
@@soulfulfool yes... maybe. Synergy is the overlooked yet most crucial aspect. A-100 with project pre s2digital... great combo. Put an Neo iDSD or evem a Qtest with 1000€ linear PSU and is way too smooth and boring
I have got one of those and balacing modding those mad HUGE difference on my 789. Looking at the output power of the 789 shows why: Single-Ended Output 100 mW, 600 ohms vs Balanced Output 400 mW, 600 ohms
This Review is so hype for me, cause I've been using these DT 880 600ohm with some Schiit Modi1 + Schiit Vali 1 (even had to resold the Raytheon tubes in there) and I always thought I was still missing something.
Now that the Schiit Stack is all faulty, I was searching for dac and amp substitutes and THIS video popped up my feed!!
Why is the stack all faulty?
@@mr_sn4k3s I don't recall why the DAC was faulty, but for the Amplifier shipping from USA to EU wasn't the greatest idea, I had to resold the tubes in there but that's a problem only for Vali 1, they got modular valve amp tubes since Vali 2.
I don't know if I can suggest tube amplifier since they're fragile, consume a lot and get really hot, but the sound it's kind of different from standard amp
@@zempry they are freaking amazing with my Feliks Elise, got them running at half volume so its enough power to go crazy with those amazing cans, in my ranks sound wise its easy S tier 👑 right at top with best headphones
What I love about my beyerdynamics is that open back. Once ive forgot to turn off speakers and put on the headphones... I clicked play button, first I was scared. But then when you can feel the bass and other tones getting thru that open back mixing together with detailed tones from headphones, it was instant goose bumps 🤤
Power Output (headphone output; direct drive mode)
(requires internal jumper; USE WITH CAUTION):
8 Ohms: 50 watts / channel
33 Ohms: 12 watts / channel
47 Ohms: 8.5 watts / channel
150 Ohms: 2.6 watts / channel
300 Ohms: 1.3 watts / channel
600 Ohms: 0.6 watts / channel
Ive had the 880 600 ohms for too long to remember. I had the same feels Zeos is having when I plugged mine into an old Stereo amp hooked up to my record players. Pure bliss. My first and last pair of what I considered high tier headphones. Didnt find a need to upgrade until my amp blew and I had nothing else that would give me the same warmth that my pioneer sa-1000 stereo amp provided. Need to get that thing fixed. Surprised it took Zeos so long to find this out.
I have had the DT880's for years and they never fail to make me smile when used as Zeos describes. I use a Headroom desktop dac/amp and it works pretty good
The Beyer DT series (dt880 and dt250 to my taste) are excellent value for money and sound much more natural/neutral that most headphones. And built very well.
If this the first time you heard of 600ohm from Beyerdynamic, they also sell in Europe 600ohm mmx300 in their customize option
I bought the a100 for my t20rp from your recommendation 2 years ago. But damn, this is one epic combo. I'm not sure if my soul erupted into the flames of passion, but was truly amazed by it. Most spacious and detailed sound I've heard from a headphone
A sensible, non-Drop exclusive, recommendation for something that will power these is something I think your audience would appreciate.
+1 for non-Drop exclusive. I live in Canada and even though we are geographically close, duties, taxes, and just the exchange rate make everything way more expensive. It makes sense to buy stuff that costs like 30% more from Amazon instead.
Chernobyl pre-accident would do.
I'm thinking ifi's new iDSD Signature can do it: 4.1mw output in turbo mode.
I've had these headphones since ~2008 and I got them under the exact same circumstances as you, the buyer hated them. They are always the cans I go back to and love. I'm over the HD650, Denon AH-D7000s, etc etc, I always come back to my beloved DT880 600ohms, I've repaired and replaced so many parts on them, I love them. Now i'm wonder if I need better amperage, THANKS Z >.>
What amp do you use I currently have it and dont use it because I dont have amp, do you think heresy can drive it?
DT880 600 and other 600 Ohm cans needs volts, not amps. They have very low voltage sensitivity so you need an amp that can swing plenty of output voltage - the amp/watt rating does not need to be high.
This is the correct answer. The trick is because speaker amps are designed to put out a lot of power they can do the voltage. I read some other comments that indicated that OTL tube amps could also do the big voltage swings these need as well.
Watching this using my Argon Mk3s + Emotiva A-100 (which I love because power hungry + plenty of power = god tier audio dynamics). Anyway I will update on thoughts once my new DT880 600Ω arrives!
Had them for a few days now,
Fast. Super clean/clear as a bell. Very detailed especially in the upper-mids on upwards. Amazing and immersive soundstage. Vocals and mids sound great, can feel a little bright/treble-forward at times but not in any particularly fatiguing way (it has a bit of texture to it rather than a sudden and painful sharpness). The biggest con of these headphones seems to be how bass-light they are which can make some deeper vocals & bass notes feel a bit dry, but this is much less of a problem if you really crank the volume (hence why Zeos suggested the Emotiva BasX A-100). Switching from amp to amp the main difference you will notice will be in speed, it feels like a slower amplifier like the Darkvoice just kind of holds it back. A cleaner and faster amp like the 789 will show off how fast it can get, but the volume just isn't quite there to compensate for the bass related problems noted earlier. Finally with the BasX A-100 cranked + some digital dB source reduction, you will notice some interesting and more expressive dynamics as described by Zeos, it will feel very slightly slower than the 789 but not to the extent to where it is really holding it back in any significant way.
Overall a great pair of headphones that are essentially the polar opposite to the Argons that I daily drive, which make them a great companion to have as they both do great things on the A-100. Just make sure that you are in an environment where you can actually blast your open back headphones really loud.
Update:
Tried out some Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads on them and it completely fixed any possible problems with bass (maybe even slightly bass-forward now and a tad V shaped), these things also now move so much air (they already moved a fair bit of air) that you can physically and noticeably feel it on your ears for just about any track now. They also now leak sound like a motherfucker (You might as well use them as mini speakers) so just a warning if you are nearby people.
TLDR: Pad swap to fix any bass problems, the stock pads are very transparent but that also means they let lots of sound (specifically bass) escape from your ears.
@@qazxswedcxzaqws Wow good read thanks for leaving this comment. I have argons with lambskin pads myself but im using the jds labs atom amp I wonder if upgrading my amp would make the argons sound better?
@@MasterMark5 With the argons the biggest difference you would notice would be in width, dynamics, and treble roll-off. The improvement of width in the soundstage is something already quite well known about the argons as many folks online have also mentioned that feeding it more power really does help it open up the soundstage. The dynamics improvement is my favorite part of the A-100, it really helps with your immersion in the sound. The best way I could describe dynamics is: The gap in volume between when somebody is whispering and when somebody is shouting becomes greater, this makes things sound less 'flat'. And finally the treble will noticeably roll-off a bit more, which is honestly a good thing for the argons as their treble can get a little more ear-piercing at times when used on amplifiers with a flatter response.
Some important things to note:
The argons do have a very faint noise floor with the A-100, it will fade away a bit as the A-100 warms up but will still be there.
The A-100 is very big and very heavy, make sure you have room for it.
Other more sensitive headphones could have a greater noise floor that isn't as tolerable.
To get the most out of the A-100 then you have to do the 50w per channel mod described in the booklet you receive with the A-100, then crank the volume to a point where you feel comfortable. (I have mine maxed without issue) But this means you must absolutely digitally limit the DAC otherwise you will seriously damage or even break any headphones you plug in. (e.g. I have typically have my topping D50s set anywhere from -32 dB to -50 dB)
Hope this helps you with your decision!
@@qazxswedcxzaqws Do you think pad swapping will make the dt good with a 789 ?
You were right. They are amazing. I did try some RCA cables. my favorite is the QED Performance 40i stereo ones. Increases the center and bass and removes the fatiguing sharpness. I simply love them. Thank you Zeos :-)
I have the argons mk3, the dt 1990 pro and everytime, i switch back to dt 880. They are that good. Thank you :-)
Ordered my DT880 "Edition" 600Ω headphone three days ago at Byerdynamic in Germany. It arrived Yesterday and boy... you have never been more right about anything Zeos! The energy, the amount of detail revealed, the seemingly natural / flat response, yet not boring. Everything is there. Soundstage and imaging are exceptional. Magic is happening right on your very ears. From the lowest sub-bass to the most crisp highs of cymbals and Hi-Hats. But all in balance. Nothing is exaggerated or emphasised. But the amount of detail it reveals... honestly, I heard things in recordings that I never knew were there! They're a very honest set of headphones in my opinion. What you put into it is what you get out of it. If you put shit into it, you'll get shit out of it. But a perfectly mastered track will come out like magic. My Soundblaster AE-9 is driving the DT880 headphone perfectly at 600Ω. I am totally excited, and it might even get better after some burn-in time. One final word: AMAZING !!!
Then he is not right about that they need that amount of power.... THX 789 with 6 Watts per channel and he is complaining. Your Soundcard is way more weaker (a lot) and you praising it as wery good sounding. That means he is overdramatic about it? Mine are on the way to me..... so time will tell. I have a few 600h Ohm Headphones and drive them well with just 1 Watt per channel. Amp Headphone synergy is the key word here not power. So why we need to pay for for headphones 1.000 and more... snake oil!
@Relentless Hi. It is not that important if device can push up to 600 Ohms. Specialy for the DT 880 it is best when your Dac/Headphone AMP gives higher Ohms resistance on the Headphone Jack. Most company push 1 Ohm and below because of the noise ration. This is true with lower impedance HP trend on the market, but when you have a 600 Ohm gem of a headphone and an AMP pushing 10 Ohm and best 100 Ohm restisten on the Headphone Jack.... You'r golden.... best experiance you can have similar to the realy realy expensive headphones. It is difficult to find such DaC/AMP's. I know one the Beyedynamic 100 AMP and the Topping D30/A30 combo. My AMP is pushin 16Ohms on the headphone jack and it sounds great.... But my dream is to get a 100 Ohm AMP just for the DT 880 600Ohm edition.... Great headphones.
@Relentless Thats why I wrote it is difficult, everybody is following the trend of low impendance. This what I wrote is only applaying for 600Ohm Headphones. Not many people have that kind of headphones and less know thatwith this typ of headphones you need higher output between 10 - 100 Ohm impendance for the headphones to really shine. Power is not an issue 1-2 Watts perchannel is enough everything else is snake oil. Just a new trend to follow and to buy.
@Relentless look for used gear. Topping A30 is cheap and the Beyedynamic 100 AMP is also not that expensive, you can get it between 150-200€ or look for cheaper chinese stuff. It is hard but you have to look for high impendance out of the Headphone Jack thats it for 600 Ohm HP to realy shine or leave it as it is as long as you'r satisfied. I use the DT880 with a Audio GD R2R Dac/Amp with 16 Ohms on the Headphone Jack.... Sounds great.... but the iching how would it sound with a 100 Ohm impendance at the Headphone Jack? One day I will get both Topping A30 and the Beyerdynamic 100 Amp (it is not a coincidence that this AMP has 100 Ohm on HP Jack and that when you use low impendance Headphones on it they sound lifeless and sterile?)
Hi, can you please share your settings? I just got this headphones and I have a SB AE-7. I am using direct mode.
You had me screaming in my head, "Plug it in the BasX 100!" for 4:35
Just like speakers, headphones and earphones have a certain resistance to the electric current transmitted by the amplifier: this is impedance. Expressed in ohms, it often ranges between 8 and 600 ohms, depending on the model. As they do for speakers, manufacturers measure headphone impedance at 1 kHz (midrange), but in reality, impedance varies according to frequency (from lows to highs). It can double, triple or quadruple as the transducer’s mechanical resonance frequency is approached, which complicates the amplifier’s task by requiring it to produce more power.
Very late to the party here. I just picked up a pair of these a couple of days ago, and have wanted to try them ever since I watched this great and hilarious review. I'm running them with a Schiit Asgard 3, which is rated at 5W into 16 ohms and 300mW into 600 ohms. The Asgard 3 drives these cans effortlessly on either high or low gain mode. So good news, you don't need a 50W amp to run these. 🙂 Mine aren't broken in yet but they have already impressed me.
I can’t get ahold of Schiit gear easily here. The Topping A30 Pro is readily available though 😊
Curse you Zeos. I've been wanting to get the A-100 for two years, but could never find a good reason to. I just ordered one and the DT880s.
i feel you, brother...same here with the emotiva...
Make that a 3rd. I just gotta try em now. The lord Zeos has spoken
he will have the power for sure but this comes with ALOT of noise because the a-100 is a SPEAKER amp and has waay higher noise floor than a thx amp.
I have an Emotiva for my Argons and it’s a trade off. The extra power tightens up the bass a little bit but the noise floor is just awful. Funny, Zeos never talks about the terrible background buzz when he’s hyping up the A100.
@@jeremymanton5320 Joshua Valour did talk about that
Watts is voltage squared divided by resistance( for a speaker you use impedance but you can simplify it to resistance for this). Amplifiers basically just output an ac voltage so if an amp outputs 28.28V into an 8 ohm load it outputs 100 watts, if it outputs 28,28V into a 4 ohm load you get 200 watts but that also means the current doubles and thats why amplifiers not always have double the wattage rating at 4 ohm compared to 8 ohm because they can't handle the current. Some even don't recommend 4 ohm loads at all. A 600 ohm load would result in that that same amp only outputting 1.33 watts so that's why these are basically impossible to drive with most headphone amps. That's also why trying to blow up a headphone speaker with an amp is harder than you might think.
So if you want to simply test the real output of your amp you can hook up an ac volt meter to you terminals, put like a 1000hz test tone into it and measure the output. That of course doesn't take distortion or clipping in consideration.
Hey Zeos, the 789 or smsl sp200 have 6000 mw per channel at 16 ohms.At 600 ohm you only get 220 mw output.
And of course you can identify the 600 ohm version , look at the passage between cable and connector. Here is written 600 ohm.
I didn’t wait for a Bass X owner to comment. I bought them (via affiliate link) with the express purpose of voiding the warranty to balance mod them for dual mono 3.5mm. Everything he describes about background noise is what makes me giddy with my $2800 ZMF Verite Closed. I have to know if they even compete without cost playing a factor.
follow up?
Avocado Tree I did it. Except I used 4 pin miniXLR. 789 powers them now.
@@The4thaggie but how do they compare ??
Following.
THX 789 SE is 100 mW output power for 600 ohms.
I don't think Z realizes that the 789 isn't nearly as powerful when running SE. The Atom has more power.
Meanwhile my BasX is 600mw at 600 ohms and 50w at 8 ohms
@@colin8601 I like them a lot. They aren't the bassiest things around but they are very good. Try out some planars. Once you experience planar bass, you never go back. It's so clean and deep. The Audeze lineup is really good.
They are good on the sp200/m200 combo when using the xlr to connect them. The A100 I have is a bit noisy with the jumper removed but that may be a grounding issue in my setup. The only thing I have that impresses me more is my shp9500 running a bravo v2 with a gold lion tube. The bravo v2 with the gold lion is a really great combo with lots of power.
You get noise on the A100 if the headphones are too easy to power. I usually reserve for 300Ω and above or T50 mods only.
I agree 100%, this is the world's best headphone for the money.
I used to run DT990's on a schiit asgard for gaming and they sounded amazing due to the asgard's 300mw at 600 ohms. Amp shopping for 600 ohm headphones isn't that hard but you need to shop specs at 600 ohms.
I still have my DT990 at 600 Ohm and it started coming alive coming from a liquid spark (which monoprice doesn't show a power output listing at 600 ohm but a few other websites put it at less than 100mw) to the project polaris that nearly puts 400mw into 600 Ohm. It doesn't hurt that it really does have a bit of "tube sound" on a solid state amp :)
@@PastafarianLemur Same setup I'm using. 990 is a little sharp for me so I have no problems EQing it. But I always find my self wanting to pull up the bass and having just a bit more headroom would be nice.
With a 600ohm headphone you need lots of voltage to power them. With hard to drive 50ohm planars you need massive amounts of current.
The 600ohm headphones have an insane amount of resistance. I recommend an OTL amp for them.
Solved your power problem - EVGA Nu Audio sound card, (works a treat for me :) and double thanks for introducing Rodrigo y Gabriela to me :))
Zeos, have you tried these with the Darkvoice (or another tube amp)? I'm curious how they sound with tubes... My own understanding (from a very long time ago) is that high impedance headphones (like the 600ohm dt880, 300ohm hd600, etc) need a lot of voltage swings to make them perform to their best, and low impedance headphones need a lot of current capability to make them shine. Solid state is good at providing current and tubes are good at providing voltage. This is my understanding, it may be wrong - but it explains why my high impedance headphones sound great off tubes and mediocre off of (most) solid state designs.
I Used them with Audiotailor Jade tube amps with ASUS Xonar Essence STX and later STX2 till I got the T1. That is what I have read as well back in the day.
I'm so Happy to finally see you try these !
Damn it Zeos, I bought the Bas-X after you reviewed it 2 years ago for my 650s and then the Enog 2 (and Archel 2.5) after you reviewed those. Stop being the devil on my shoulder! Gahh, where’s my wallet. 🤤
i bought the basx A100 thanks to you...and i shall now own these as well...thank you kind sir
Zeos, maybe you could review Asgard 3 with these? Asgard 3 pairs magically well with DT880 Pro @250ohms. Haven't tried the 600 ohms, but it may work...
I've been using Beyer DT 880 250ohm for 13 years, and I decided to finally get a new pair and upgrade to 600ohm. I'm really glad I decided in advance to get them recabled for 'balanced' drive (4-pin XLR) instead of single-ended, because after the recable my THX 887 has no trouble making them sing. They were just awful on the same amp before the recable.
"Hear the music HARDER" - That's a good slogan
I'm back with a balance modded DT 880 600 ohms. Z is not wrong, these are ridiculously good. Currently running a Denafrips Ares 2 R2R dac to a Topping A90 running on high gain. This setup is so incredibly detailed, clean and still has good bass. If you want to balance mod them there is a modding thread on HiFiGuides that will show you how to do it. It's worth the effort if you don't want to throw a bunch of money at a super powerful single ended amp.
Topping a90 still might be underpowered. Because these are single ended cans. A90 gets much less output in single ended. A30pro is the way to go.
fullscreen wallpaper, special occasion wow
People have already explained but in simplified terms, the higher the impedance the higher the voltage but lower the current amp has to push; meaning the phones with higher impedance would in theory on perfect amp with unlimited gain be easier to drive, unfortunately the amps have limited gain (maximum output voltage) therefore limited volume. That should not result in distortion however, your amp is distorting because you are over saturating it's input, if you set the gain on a dac to amp's spec (4v for xlr, 2v for rca) the distortion would be reduced but amp would not be able provide enough gain to get those phones up to a listening level. modding those phones to take balanced would probably fix that issue.
Correction Drop THX AAA 789 input specs are up to 4v for both xlr and rca.
I run the DT-770-600Ohm on the Monolith THX Portable and it's got enough gain and power to run these at substantial volume. He's totally overdriving the 789, I've got it and the Emotiva as well, limitation is with the end user, not the amp. ; )
I re-signed up for patreon just to see a review of this, even though I own it anyway. So happy that Z likes them too. I listen to all the sound demos on it. I think it is good at revealing the various tonalities. But for some music, it is a hair bright.
100% agree. At some tracks the highs can be a bit piercing.
You've sold me, Mr Z - *DT880-250* incoming, regardless of this vid and DMS' feedback re the 'lesser models' notorious DT880 treble. I swore a very long time ago (think HE-6) that any headphone that needed an effing SPEAKER AMP to power it had no place under my roof and you've basically limited the BASX to 3 headphones max (my speakers are powered - again, thanks for the recc). Finally, I'd like to thank you for another totally gonzo review - you normally only gush like this over speakers, but Beyerdynamic is clearly pushing your buttons this month. The only caution I would add for newbies to the channel is that you (like many of us) have a long history of falling madly in love with gear only to ditch it a month or two later for the next 'must have' : as I said, we've all been there. Comparing these to the HE-1 and somewhere north of the LCD-4 will only fan the flames of many on the forums, but I still love your work - far more entertaining than the measurement crowd will ever be. Thanks for the review.
600 Ohm review has been the Elephant in the room for Zeos for more than 3 years! And they say 600Ohm at the end of the cable.
Simplest explanation: Amplifiers (usually) amplify voltage. Ohms dictates how much power/watts a speaker or headphone will take/draw from the amplifier at a given voltage. High ohms draw LESS power at the same voltage.
The issue is headphone amps tend to be low voltage since low ohm headphones will still draw the needed power and headphones don't need "speaker power". Any amp that can drive speakers will typically use higher voltage, and therefore high ohm headphones will get the high voltage they need to draw the power they need. If you want to run DT-880s the easiest thing to do is find an amp that can power speakers. It doesn't need to be high wattage...even amps as low as 15W should be using voltages high enough to drive the DT-880s with ease.
what i take away from this is finding the headphone amp that delivers specs for 8 ohm loads. assuming those amps actually handles low ohms and theresfor have current capability.
that's why i think the 789 is not that powerful amp, no 8 ohm specs and 16 and 32 ohms balanced has the same output for some reason.
for example my amp does 20 watts in 8 ohm and 500mW in 600 ohm, that is 5 times the 789 output unbalanced.
Ok, i have a DT880 600Ω, a magni heresy, and an A-100. Long Story short, just get the heresy if you want the DT880s (you should).
Ok long story
First are the specs.
The heresy can output 215mW at 600Ω
The A-100 can out put a hellofalotmoarrr!!!! at 600Ω
The 789 as a reference can do 100mW at 600Ω
On quiet songs you will max out the heresy
On normal songs (95% of songs) the heresy will give you the power you need and will only distort at unhealthy volumes.
The A-100 can go louder than the heresy but will start to distort at the same db level as the heresy.
I can imagine that the 789 might have issues powering the DT880s since it has half the power of the heresy.
Now for Sound quality between the amps . . .
FUCK I DONT KNOW!
They might be the same, they might be a little different. I did not prefer one over the other. I'm no seasoned audiophile with a wall of amps and headphones.
The DT880 600Ω are totes epic thoo.
My main rig is an L700 and i wouldn't mind going a few days without it with the DT880s around.
I've been trying to find out for a while if it's worth having the hd58x AND the dt880? I love my 58x and reeeally want a dt880 but I feel like they fit the same purpose/price range within a headphone collection? Any thoughts? :) The Tygr also complicates things now
Felt the same way with my A-100 vs my 789 using argons. Zeos says they sing on the A-100 but honestly I don't notice any difference except the noise floor of the A-100 drives me nuts. It's currently sitting in it's box and haven't felt like getting it out at all. Maybe I'll pick up the 880s and give it another shot. I just keep it around for the possibility of needing that power some day.
@@Feenicks30 Never Had the 58x but i have read that the 58x are warmer and have more bass.
Aidan O' Keeffe I sold my 58x’s and bought the 880’s. Don’t regret it one bit!
@@ethanwasserman4054 ooh no way? Would you consider them better in most aspects? What do you drive them with?
The one to get is the all black Special Edition with the different Amiron style headband! One of the most comfortable and gorgeous headphones ever, and even 50g lighter than the Amiron home.
The 990 version is amazing too with stronger, solid bass and the most enjoyable treble I have heard on any Beyerdynamic.
Zeos, please mod these headphone to balanced. I'm very curious how these will sound with a balanced mod, which will give more power.
If your amp can do voltage swing over 5V. You will be good with these. Your amp power rating is current and voltage gain combined and normally manufactures don't tell you what their products are good at. My tube amp can swing 9.5V @300ohm even it is only rated 300mw max power output. Modern headphones more rely on current and that's what these solid state amps are good at.
Did you ever get to listen to the 250 Ohm version of them? I have been eyeing the DT880's ever since i got into headphones, but never got to actually try them.
He's said before that higher ohm versions are superior.
250ohm version is brighter and making it too bright. 600ohm is a bit brighter than neutral but not too much.
There are two videos concerning the 250Ω model:
Initial video: ua-cam.com/video/wLot10pwujs/v-deo.html
Sound Demo: ua-cam.com/video/2HtQAUyFOYw/v-deo.html
Had them for year and a half. Tried countless other since and I keep going back to my 880s. I love them. I have the 250ohm coiled one
@@ulpsb What amp do you pair them with? I also have the 250 Ohm version.
Emotiva just just came out with a new/replacement amp (also with jumper-able headphone out) for the one talked out here. Be interesting to revisit this review with that amp.
This is no magic. Also, it’s all about ohm’s law baby. power vs dampening factor (amp output impedance vs headphone driver impedance). These 600 ohm 880s are really not that hard to drive. They are easier to drive than many planar magnetic with far lower impedance but far greater power demands. It’s just that most of todays good headphone amps are optimized for lower impedance but higher current while these need higher voltage but less current. They sound great on almost any OLD integrated or receiver with a headphone jack that taps the speaker outputs even with step down resistors (so long as not stepped down too much for todays typically lower impedance headphones); that’s because back in the day (60s, 70s, mid 80s (until Walkman roughly) big headphones were designed to be used with with such things which have relatively high impedance compared to today. The rule of thumb is you want the headphone impedance to be 6-10 times or greater than the output impedance of the amp. The step down resistors of integrated/receivers tapping speaker out (and I suspect the headphone output of the emotive amp even with those resistors jumped) reduce the output to non-driver blowing levels while at the cost of increasing the output impedance many fold while maintaining voltage m. For low impedances (most current headphones under 150ohm or any speaker ) this will be bad, lowering dampening for tubby bass while smushing/blurring the highs. But the 600ohm Dt880 is so high an impedance the dampening is maintained. And the phones were obviously designed with such sources in mind, thus the otherwise often shrill upper end is softened while the often thin bass and lower mid increases without becoming tubby. Similar to how electrostatic speakers often sound great with tube amps of low power in terms of watts but high voltage and high output impedances. The 600ohm dt880 are 600ohm because the wire of voice coil is incredibly thin but low mass. with the proper source amp, the result achieve s electrostatic-like clarity (they also have very light diaphragms) with typical yet good standard sources such as in studio equipment, receivers and integrated. And without a special electrostatic amp to provide the high bias voltage to the stators of an electrostatic headphone driver.
Beyerdynamics own very expensive headphone amps have output impedances that are laughably high relative with relatively low current compared to something like a Schiit Heresy. They are not good amps for anything but high impedance driver headphones as a result. They sound great with 600ohm dt880s.
Warning, using the dt880s on an amp these long term without the step down resistors may seriously shorten the lifespan of the drivers as they are receiving FAR more power than that thin wire is designed for.
I wonder how the DT990 Edition 600Ω would compare?
I highly recommend Dekoni Elite Hybrid Pads ( EPZ-DT78990-HYB ) for this headphone. Great comfort and cool for hours and rounds out the bottom end.
Zeos, is the king of hype....
There must be something wrong with your 880s, Zeos. I just got them today and I can confirm 100% that I have the 600 ohm version, I have the original box and it`s even written "600 Ω" on the jack plug. They don`t require insane power, I can comfortably power then with an Aune X7S in medium gain. At 1 O`clock on the volune knob they are too loud for me. Yet the X7S doesn`t distort in the slightest, I totally get what you said about how they sound. These do things that I have never heard in any other headphone, the details are lighting fast and they sound transparent yet like every sound has texture of some sort. Every detail has a detail in itself, they almost sound FREAKY.
0:42 An attached 3.5mm cable with an adapter for 600 ohms headphones?! What were they thinking?
Also, I think the whole description of the sound suggests these are bright headphones, which the graphs show clearly.
12:49 Zeos has really jumped the shark lol.
770/990 bright yes. 880 pleasant, at least for me
it's not that bright watch DMS his review. The 250 ohm version probably would qualify as bright,
I got these and they are amazing but the left channel stopped working randomly 4 days after I got them so I need to send them to get repaired. I powered them with an old high end Denon Reciever and it worked great. Definitely the best headphone for the price if you can power them. Amazing imaging, great soundstage, and crazy detail.
Its true they are very hard to drive with the same amount of power they were probably about 6-10 decibels quiter than my Argons depending on the amp so they require a lot more power.
I wonder how different the 250 ohm version is compared to this. I have the 250 ohm version which I use with my v30, and i really enjoy it
I had the 250 ohm. They where fine, but not the best I've had imo. So I guess the 600 ohm must be better... If they get enough power. Makes me think of me trying planars on low wattage amps. Where it sounded god awful. I could get enough volume, but so tinny. Until I trie them on powerful amp, then godlike. Such a contrast.
I love my 250ohm 880s. My main
I’ve actually been planning on getting the basx For bookshelf speakers. 50 watts for $229 seems like a good deal since I have a couple of DACs. I chose it because of the headphone out. Now that I’ve seen this review I will definitely get the 880’s. Dammit Z why can’t what I have ever be enough LOL. Your channel has definitely caused some divorces I swear. I didn’t tell my wife about my audeze lcd-x purchase and she’s seen me wear them sitting right next to her and never noticed. 🤞🏻
“600 Ohm” ID is on the plug in mine.. 👍🏼
Just get the bayerdynamic A20. It will solve your problems. Its not about power of the amp but about impedance. You need a high impedance amp thats all. Long story short. Get the A20 amp from bayerdynamic.
That amp is only 100 mW at 600 ohms, just 1/6th the power of the Emotiva A-100 600 mW at 600 ohms. 600 mW at 600 ohms appears to the be the sweetspot for these headphones.
I use these alot on my darkvoice , with a tungsol and Ken rad.
Zeos i have found a couple of decent amps to run my DT880 600Ω. The first amp is the Marantz PM6006 UK Edition and the second is the Cambridge Audio AXR100.
The song at 3 o'clock on the volume knob was "Plum Wine", from the Mechwarrior 2 OST, yw.
You just made me remember how much I loved that OST back in the day. It has got to be 20 years now that I listened to that, as I never included it in my collection. Out I go to dig out that old baby. Thank you for that.
I had these but I swore to never use them again because somehow my ear hit a coil winding and it gave me the biggest shock of my life.
That's shocking!
No freaking way! I just received mine in the mail :0
This gotta be DESTINY!
I'm comfortably running them on my X6 and Little Dot MK2
And, it says 600Ω on the cable (right next to the tip :)
@@burgulize you mean the FX Audio DAC-X6?
@@progste Yes.
8 months later - still amazing.
Ya'll. It's so good he didn't even complain about the fucking wire at the beginning for 10 minutes.
I can hear the cough with my 250 Ohm version of the DT 880s, though it doesn't stand out very much.
Simple rule to have in mind: High impedance headphones needs amplifier with good amount of voltage, low sensitivity headphones needs an amplifier with hig current (Amperes). High impedance and low sensitivity headphones needs a nuclear central... I would prefer you made first sonic impressions and later the cons of power the DT880 (600 ohm).
yes
I modified them balanced and I think they can do properly on thx aaa 888. They do need power even balanced though. My dx160 on high gain 100percent volume is not deafening
These do sound great. I have the DT990 in 600 ohms. I have done the detachable dual cable mod with internal dampening removed. I run these through a FOSI HD-A1 amplifier. Its also 50 watt per channel. Sounds spectacular.
I put the stock M1060 pads on my 990's and i love it, you should maybe try that.
Just got the DT880 600Ω for my Emotiva BasX-100 and holy shit you are right.
These devices are a match made in heaven.
High amp cost is hard enough, but non-detachable cable is deal breaker for me.
I plan on getting them and modding it to have a detachable cable because I already have a BasX
The schiit asgard puts out 3x more power at 600ohms SE than the 789 for $200. That will most likely do the trick unless you want to go all the way and get the emotiva.
Jaden Kowalski Yo, do the dual input mod if you weren’t already planning on it. More versatility for pretty much no downside.
I own some, and modding them is very easy. I've never modded headphones before, but it is easy on these. Its just a few clips to pull of a plastic ring and the driver just falls out. There's also plenty space for a 3.5mm female. Headband disassembly is also easy, just 2 screws per side.
What exactly do you do with your headphones that you need a detachable cable so badly? I've owned my pair for 11 years and the cable is pristine.
With a dremel, a soldering iron, a mini xlr connector and A LOT of patience you can turn them into balanced.The stock cable has 3x enameled wires, so it needs to be replaced, not just reterminated.
What about the crack amp? It powers my 600ohm 990s fine. Or is this a different animal? Those mx 300s are great btw thanks for that!
OTL tube amps are made for high impedance headphones. The voltage output increases proportionally with the headphone impedance which is why your crack has no problem with them. Apparently Zeos doesn't know this because he didn't plug them into his darkvoice which would also be able to drive those cans to ear bleeding levels.
You can make them balanced by ordering a right ear cup and using it on the left side, removing the L to right connection. Then you can even make the cable detachable by using your choice of connectors.
I have these paired with a Hersey and 9:00 is plenty loud enough. Sound is amazing. You definitely don't need an expensive amp for these
do you have the 600 ohm model?
@@BrianButterz yes
I don't agree. I have the Magni 3+, so close enough and the same power output, from the same company. It does get loud enough. It does not sound good enough.
Plug them into your dark voice. High impedance cans are better with tubes amps. Tube amps have the voltage that will drive them well. The schiit lyr also powers these.
Confused: Your last review of 250 ohm was 2017. And the consumer versions have coiled cord and the Pro Version has straight cord on Beyer website. There was no THX amp in 2017 for the review. Website says 600 ohm for direct amp use as you said. So, does the 250 ohm on current headphone amps sound just as good.
Seriously considering getting these and modding to a balanced cable right away, to power it with the A90. Sure, it's not a speaker amp, but 500mW@600Ohm when balanced, should be good!
If you could convert these DT880-600ohm to balanced, do you think the THX 789 could power them?
Audio GD NFB 1, and the Gustard H 20 both work well with these. I think Class A or tubes are the key.
I can't believe these would be different then my DT-990 600 ohm. I drive mine with SMSL SP200 on high gain on 10-11 o'clock without any distortion. Z try 990s 600 ohms. You will love the bass.
He did those already 5 years ago but on a bad amp.
I've had both the 990s (32ohm) and the DT 1990 Pros and God damn Beyer does bass better than anything else I've tried.
An Ohm simply put is resistance on electrical flow. Think of a garden hose, it just flows slowly out of the end without a nozzle. You put a nozzle which adds resistance and then holy wowzers powerful water comes out. Now imagine that with electric. The 789 amp doesn't have enough flow to put pressure on the nozzle to power the headphones. Edit: that is the simple part, then you get to the point where your matching different hoses, flows and nozzles. That explains why Audiophiles pair amps to headphones like wine and cheese.
Any headphone amp that isn't designed to add distortion and has ample power to drive the headphones will sound the same. The pairing is so absolutely overhyped in this hobby it makes me sad. So many people have wasted money on amps because subjective reviewers with financial interests in selling more products tell them they need to make a specific match.