Karen Carpenter was indeed was of the finest drummers of all time. She combined the best of jazz and rock into everything she did. Her timing and feel where absolutely impeccable! The "great one", Buddy Rich, said she was one of his favorite drummers.
She put her heart in everything she did that 's why she was so awesome. I love the way she was so humble while being so incredible. She was so natural in the spotlight, she was definetely a superstar.
Not only were they really nice people but master musicians. The talent in a brother and sister is almost unmatchable. Richard was a genius of an arranger and keyboard player and Karen..a voice that will never be equaled and drumming skills that rival the best in the business. We are so lucky to have their music!!!
@hornerinf Oddly within recent years ( that I notice) the name "Karen" has become some word to describe certain bad characteristics in a person such as ignorance and naivete and lack of understanding and lack of political soundness, the name "Richard" too.
In 1973, I was the G.M. of a radio station in Wyoming, right next to the Utah border and about 80 minutes out of Salt Lake City. I wrote a note to the University of Utah offering to help them with publicity for any events at the school that might be of interest to our community. To my surprise, about a week later a package showed up thanking me for the note and help and the U. included 2 tickets for each of 3 upcoming concert appearances on the campus. So that year I took in concerts by the Fifth Dimension (with Paul Williams) and The Lettermen, both were fantastic with lots of great hits. But, best of all, the third one was the Carpenters. 43 years later, I still give thanks that I was able to see Karen and Richard in a live appearance. She sounded great, looked beautiful and the hits sounded like they were supposed to. I miss her so much, will always love here, and deeply appreciate the wonderful music she left us. Thank you, Karen
I saw them in November, 1973 at Florence(Alabama) State University, now University of North Alabama. I was about 20 feet from the stage, could see her expressions, and thoroughly enjoyed the show. They were wonderful. On my way back to Huntsville,Al where I live, I was stopped at the traffic light to take the road back to Huntsville when this Lincoln pulls up to the light. In the back was a girl, a guy ,abd another girl. I looked over and saw Karen sitting at the left rear passenger door, Richard in the middle, and the other girl on his right. Not sure who she was, maybe his girlfriend. Anyway, l caught Karen's eye, gave her a thumbs up. She smiled and waved, Richard leaned forward and waved, then the light changed. They went straight,I turned onto U.S. 72 W to Huntsville, and they went back to wherever they were headed. That was oh, so long ago, but I remember that night as clear as if it was yesterday. I am SO glad I got to see them live. Karen was beautiful, so healthy then. They are the BEST in my opinion,and No one compares to them.
Johnny Carson really liked them. He knew/respected their talent. But he liked them personally. It shows. It's like the old saying - nice poeple like nice people. Just because they're all legends doesn't change a thing.
Oh her talent! Listen to the singing, obvious!. Listen to the drumming, less obvious! Listen to the time and rhythm changes, even less obvious. Put them all together in just this one song and pull out the measuring stick!
This live version is just Outstanding!!!!!... Times just shows how great and special they were. Karen looks so comfortable and happy behind the drums. Richard's arrange is spotlessly BRILLIANT on this one. LONG LIVE CARPENTERS!!! we love you forever.
There seem to be quite a few videos of Karen playing the drums, and the one thing that stands out is that she would use different setups and play them without being fazed, whereas most drummers tend to setup the same way every time out of habit. This is undoubtedly a testament to her unbelievable talent. The joy on her face as she plays the drums is palpable.
That voice made you believe she knew all there was to know about life. She really could sing you the phone book and make it sound essential. AND she could really play!!! Don't even get me started on the talent of her brother......
Wow, this was great to see. I remember begging my Mom to let me stay up to watch Johnny Carson because The Carpenters were on! She did let me. She was an amazing drummer, one of the reasons I played the drums. Only wish I could've played half as well as her!
Good Lord, this is just incredible. Totally live, as evidenced by all those Kustom amps and other equipment, and small variations in the vocals compared to the studio recording. Is ANYONE nowadays performing at this level? Well, to be fair, there are many now performing with great skill, and of course things are different now after the passage of this much time. So perhaps what I'm really saying is that there is a magic evident in this Carpenters performance that may never be duplicated, but should always be appreciated.
It's always such a joy to watch her drumming, not just because she is great at it, but because she just looks so damned blissful while doing it. The drums were her first love and her passion and I wish they would have let her keep playing.
I love this song and this album. It's still hard to believe they would not 'let' her play the drums when she could play like that. In fact, from here on, she played less and less on stage and in studio. So strange and sad.
Fantastic arrangement; one of the best displays of both Karen and Richard Carpenter ... thanks very much for posting. Incredible talent ... miss you Karen!
Imagine in 2012 if a group came on a late night show and said, "sure we'll play some hits for 10 minutes, but we want to play some other obscure number just for our enjoyment for another 5 minutes." Would the host have the sense to give the audience this pleasure (or power to make it happen)? Would the network give them the time instead of running another commercial? Would the group actually want to take such a venture? Just curious.
Thanks for that! Richard's arraingement is brilliant, but Karen on the drums here is genious...her emotion as it tilts with the slaps amd bumps of the drums is .... hell, it priceless!
Her singing is fantastic. ...yet listen to the drums; they are musical, poetic; they sing while she sings. Look at her face: happiness bar none. Drums put that smile on her face. Maybe the eyebrows were the first sign of more yet to come? Johnny played the drums; loved her playing; sympathized, I think, with her more than a little. I wonder what he surmised when she died. I guess we will never know.
She was so beautiful, and you could tell that Johnny really liked them. It’s funny about the eyebrows, it seems to go hand in hand with the body issues. I remember thinning my eyebrows out in college as I battled some of the same demons she did. Isn’t that weird?
@@deserthound2605 really good question. It might be a control thing, or just an attempt at making everything thinner and smaller. Not sure. I remember doing the same thing after losing a ton of weight though.
Excellent! There's very little footage available of Karen singing and drumming LIVE, so this was a real treat. Only the folks who attended their concerts got to see this kind of performance. Thanks for posting.
@@vickiebohy1742 Consider yourself blessed! I was fortunate to have worked on their 1977 Christmas special and I was blown away by their talent. Both of them were brilliant musicians and very sweet people. Decades later I had the opportunity to have dinner with Richard and he remembered every detail of that special and of everything else. He has a photographic mind. A true genius! And not only that, a real gentleman. It's so rare to meet people like that nowadays.
ssoko, I agree! This is supposed to be a "get even" type song! It's actually a beautiful piece of music. I bet the real Mr. Guder was flat-out impressed when he first heard the tune. Probably plays it for his grand-kids. LOL! 'Hey kids, wanna hear a great song that the Carpenters wrote and recorded in my honor?" LOL!
She is missed so much. She had a beautiful voice and a great drum player. God takes the very best !! At least we still have her memories to listen to listen to. She is with the rest in ( Rock & Roll Heaven ) singing lead!!!!
That good song, I love the flute sounds like in this area, there is the joy of Karen as loved and enjoyed his great passion play drums and sing the same time, transmitting all their joy, all his love all that passion that I had in his soul for the music.
Absolutely wonderful! I always liked this song. To see them playing it is so great! This is NOT an easy song to play or sing. Karen does both with finesse and sweet confidence. I'm a professional drummer of 35 years and she is quite good. What a terribly sad loss! Thanks for posting this!!!
She had impeccable technique and an absolutely unshakable sense of tempo. She was a tasty drummer. This particular tune has about a dozen distinct tempos and she shifts from one to the other with consummate ease. Yeah, like it's easy to play those changes so crisply and sing on top of it. She blazed a trail that wasn't followed until much later. There weren't many female drummers on the scene until the middle 70's. (I'm thinking of Alice de Buhr and Brie Brandt of Fanny). She was a PLAYER.
@Trans909 I think Fanny was relatively recently inducted in a Hall of Fame, not sure if it was the Rock Music Music Hall of Fame but for being one of the pioneers of women in Rock and Roll, being an all female band but i also have heard some people say that Fanny was mediocre or less, and though they were one of the first or maybe the first all-women's rock band, their music was not special and they did not really make it big when they were new on the scene.
@@obscurelyvague Hmm. Bowie seemed to like them. McCartney indicated that he liked them but made no formal endorsement I can recall. Spector was wild about them and wanted to produce them. (There were very brief talks. Phil was pretty far gone by then.) The problem was, they kind of half-managed themselves with a half-assed management company lacking the means to promote and guide them successfully. Here is what I would have done had I been their manager with a BIG budget: 1) Seek a really good PR firm, as hip as possible for the times (I'm thinking Weiden-Kennedy) and work out a three year promotion plan: recording, release album at a prime moment depending on album "theme," maximum viability for release of radio, magazine, TV ads. In other words, plan, strategize for a minimum of 36 months. Time it carefully to ONE album per year, THREE tours opening or headlining if possible. 2)Push for interviews. Kiss Jann Wenner's ass and make him love the band and provide coverage on tours AND the studio, AND compare/contrast the events in their personal lives. Use media to make them accessible and likeable. Relatable, especially to women and male "feminists." 3) USE OTHER SONGWRITERS! You're right; their songs weren't catchy enough. They needed someone with an ear for hooks. Nikki Barclay, their keyboard player and primary songwriter could be a real b***h about getting her songs in and producing them her way, sometimes clashing with the Millington sisters. That shit should have been prevented from the jump. It's a domestic dispute and while they're sniping at each other, the bills and deadlines are piling up. All that passion should have gone into writing and producing good Top 40 tunes. Therefore: hire someone experienced in Top 40 who can discipline them; show them HOW to write the killer hooks and licks. It might change their sound but that could be a GOOD thing, amirite? 4) Find a great studio with a really talented producer. I'm thinking Bill Szymczyk, the guy who produced Joe Walsh and the Eagles at the Record Plant in LA. Or RCA studios. Capitol Records. Todd Rundgren would have been a pretty cool choice for producer too, now that I think of it. Bearsville Studios is a cozy place in upstate New York. Hey, the Caribou Ranch in Colorado was in operation back then, I think. Lots of better places to record good tunes cowritten with a top-flight songwriter, recorded in a top of the line studio, by an expert producer and engineer. 5) Strategize but don't overanalyze. Keep a series of goals in mind along a 36 month path. Keep June and Nikki at peace, keep the collaborations with other players, singer, and songwriters--make a habit of it and it could become their trademark: Who is Fanny gonna work with now? (Hint: a good place to start would be with Bowie. Then some metal slashers. Then a "smoother approach. Countrify? Dare I say adopt the "California Sound" and ask Brian Wilson to give it a listen?) Three Dog Night made a GREAT living off this sort of approach but even they fucked up because they left too many loose edges. Rock bands live on the margins. Their fortunes change like the weather. Fanny needed better prep for a changing climate and they couldn't get past the personal differences to make those changes, much as you've already noted. We agree then. Nice. Slightly different perspectives but the same conclusions, essentially. Whattya know. It CAN be done.
@@Trans909 Wow. You ought to be some kind of manager for music artists. You did mention having other musicians write or somehow make music for them to play and also that they should have made more "Catchy" types of tunes. I have heard of some serious rock artists rejecting such an approach because they did not want to just make music that is like a jingle and thus very commercial and some musicians rather play music they feel is genuine art and has real meaning than music that sells a lot because of "Catchy" lyrics or tunes. That i s considered selling out in some circles.
I always imagine if Led Zepplins John Bonhan became ill and instead of cancelling the shows they asked Karen to fill in on the drums. I think the crowd would have at first been very upset seeing her but as soon as she started hitting the drums the crowd would have been blown away and I think it would have her happiest moment in life performing. I heard she loved Led Zeppelin.
Exactly. She started out when tuba player and friend Wes Jacobs, and Richard, along with Karen were THE DICK CARPENTER TRIO. They were students at the University of California,Long Beach. They were on tv in the College Battle of the Bands. I remember Karen playing drums( her name was on the kick drum). She didn't sing, but she tore up the drums in that jazz number they played. Wes, the last I heard, was playing in a symphony. Of course, we know where Karen and Richard's career went. So thankful. After the Dick Carpenter Trio ended, Richard formed SPECTRUM with 2 other college friends. They them stayed on as part of their studio/ tour band.
Jim Southern you were lucky to get to see the Carpenters perform in concert just for writing the note . That was a great thing you did I wish I would have thought of that so I could have seen them in concert. Not every body is lucky enough to get a free ticket to see any concert. I also miss Karen’s music and wish I could have seen them.
Loved this song back then and still to this day! Loved the live version. Karen never sounded better! Wow, how I miss the Carpenters. Can’t wait to get the new CD.
She was certainly a superstar. Probably the best voice since Judy Garland. Also a good drummer. She has been long missed as well a s Mr Johnny Carson...
@unclekk92 This song's called "Mr. Guder" I believe it's from the "Close to You" LP. Man, I'm getting shivers watching this. She was so incredibly talented and unmatched today. There's only been very few singing drummers in the business at that time---Phil Collins of Genesis and Don Henley of The Eagles. I think Karen was one of a handful--if any--who sang at the same time---and so fabulously well!!
Karen seemed happiest when drumming and singing. Saw them twice in concert and they were absolutely perfection.....a joyous experience that I will never forget. thanks for the vid!
She makes the drums look so easy and effortless. Which means she's *really* good.
You see her eyes while doing that drum interlude...pure bliss.
Karen had so much fun behind the drums. The look on her face was real enjoyment!
Karen Carpenter was indeed was of the finest drummers of all time. She combined the best of jazz and rock into everything she did. Her timing and feel where absolutely impeccable! The "great one", Buddy Rich, said she was one of his favorite drummers.
even neil peart thought she was one of the best drummers ever
She put her heart in everything she did that 's why she was so awesome.
I love the way she was so humble while being so incredible.
She was so natural in the spotlight, she was definetely a superstar.
Karen is so beautiful and talented: she was an excellent drummer and singer. We miss her very much...
The best Duo for over time
She seemed happiest when drumming (and singing)! But then again, she always considered herself as a "drummer who sang".
Not really fan, happiest singing opraetta
Accurate! TY
Not only were they really nice people but master musicians. The talent in a brother and sister is almost unmatchable. Richard was a genius of an arranger and keyboard player and Karen..a voice that will never be equaled and drumming skills that rival the best in the business. We are so lucky to have their music!!!
@hornerinf
Oddly within recent years ( that I notice) the name "Karen" has become some word to describe certain bad characteristics in a person such as ignorance and naivete and lack of understanding and lack of political soundness, the name "Richard" too.
@@obscurelyvague Yes, culture has really changed a lot.
In 1973, I was the G.M. of a radio station in Wyoming, right next to the Utah border and about 80 minutes out of Salt Lake City. I wrote a note to the University of Utah offering to help them with publicity for any events at the school that might be of interest to our community. To my surprise, about a week later a package showed up thanking me for the note and help and the U. included 2 tickets for each of 3 upcoming concert appearances on the campus.
So that year I took in concerts by the Fifth Dimension (with Paul Williams) and The Lettermen, both were fantastic with lots of great hits.
But, best of all, the third one was the Carpenters. 43 years later, I still give thanks that I was able to see Karen and Richard in a live appearance. She sounded great, looked beautiful and the hits sounded like they were supposed to.
I miss her so much, will always love here, and deeply appreciate the wonderful music she left us. Thank you, Karen
Jim Southern you are one of the luckiest persons on earth to watch them perform live! What a memory to cherish!
Jim Southern thanks for sharing that precious memory. To see to Karen performing at live is a truly privilige.
Man, youre a lucky sunuvagun
We would have had you every show if allowed anyone to get to me then.
I saw them in November, 1973 at Florence(Alabama) State University, now University of North Alabama. I was about 20 feet from the stage, could see her expressions, and thoroughly enjoyed the show. They were wonderful. On my way back to Huntsville,Al where I live, I was stopped at the traffic light to take the road back to Huntsville when this Lincoln pulls up to the light. In the back was a girl, a guy ,abd another girl. I looked over and saw Karen sitting at the left rear passenger door, Richard in the middle, and the other girl on his right. Not sure who she was, maybe his girlfriend. Anyway, l caught Karen's eye, gave her a thumbs up. She smiled and waved, Richard leaned forward and waved, then the light changed. They went straight,I turned onto U.S. 72 W to Huntsville, and they went back to wherever they were headed. That was oh, so long ago, but I remember that night as clear as if it was yesterday. I am SO glad I got to see them live. Karen was beautiful, so healthy then. They are the BEST in my opinion,and No one compares to them.
Her voice 👄 is like an angel. 👼
Johnny Carson really liked them. He knew/respected their talent. But he liked them personally. It shows. It's like the old saying - nice poeple like nice people. Just because they're all legends doesn't change a thing.
Thank God for video tape. It is amazing how Karen changes in appearance from year to year. But that incredible talent is always there.
Oh her talent! Listen to the singing, obvious!. Listen to the drumming, less obvious! Listen to the time and rhythm changes, even less obvious. Put them all together in just this one song and pull out the measuring stick!
a voice and a fantastic drummer!!
What a gem of a performance with Karen drumming away while Richard works the ARP Odyssey synth, plus her rich vocals.
I can't hel but think what if they had another 30 years to make music.
SIMPLY UNREALL!!! the best vocal,harmony group ever!!!!
This live version is just Outstanding!!!!!... Times just shows how great and special they were. Karen looks so comfortable and happy behind the drums. Richard's arrange is spotlessly BRILLIANT on this one. LONG LIVE CARPENTERS!!! we love you forever.
She was so happy playing the drums
There seem to be quite a few videos of Karen playing the drums, and the one thing that stands out is that she would use different setups and play them without being fazed, whereas most drummers tend to setup the same way every time out of habit. This is undoubtedly a testament to her unbelievable talent. The joy on her face as she plays the drums is palpable.
she did a cool hi hat mute thing. ive never seen another drummer do that. awesome
She was so awesome. In every single way.
And Rich is such an awesome arranger/composer.
Equally adept at drumming as well as singing, what a talent.
That voice made you believe she knew all there was to know about life. She really could sing you the phone book and make it sound essential. AND she could really play!!! Don't even get me started on the talent of her brother......
wow her timing is impeccable !.. and to sing on top of that ? !
Wow, this was great to see. I remember begging my Mom to let me stay up to watch Johnny Carson because The Carpenters were on! She did let me. She was an amazing drummer, one of the reasons I played the drums. Only wish I could've played half as well as her!
The 60-second instrumental break starting around 2:18 shows how truly talented Karen was as a drummer - fantastic!!
She's got so much going on in this song, and she nails all of it, every single note, with such joy and enthusiasm. Thanks Rockduo- I love it!!
I'm no great fan of The Carpenters however i can't overlook the fact Karen can really play the drums, and sing! A true Musician!
Good Lord, this is just incredible. Totally live, as evidenced by all those Kustom amps and other equipment, and small variations in the vocals compared to the studio recording. Is ANYONE nowadays performing at this level? Well, to be fair, there are many now performing with great skill, and of course things are different now after the passage of this much time. So perhaps what I'm really saying is that there is a magic evident in this Carpenters performance that may never be duplicated, but should always be appreciated.
It's always such a joy to watch her drumming, not just because she is great at it, but because she just looks so damned blissful while doing it. The drums were her first love and her passion and I wish they would have let her keep playing.
Yes! Totally agree!
man, I miss her voice
KW Buy their music.
Me too!!!
The best singer and drummer, again now in 2018 !! What an exceptionnel and beautiful talent! We miss her. I love her very very much :-)
This is soooooooooooooooooo fuking priceless. She is the only performer, besides Eva Cassidy, who could make me weep when she sang.
Oh really! I thought I was the only one who does this. 😂
Karen and Eva made me weep sometimes.
I can't believe I didn't know she was a drummer. I'm a drummer. and that was amazing and I only heard her play one song wow.
and She does both flawlessly
Brilliant !
Karen is the VOICE. It is a pleasure watching her facial expressions when she is singing and specially if she is behind the drums.
They were so awesome it's timeless.
Nice to hear an actual live performance.
I love this song and this album. It's still hard to believe they would not 'let' her play the drums when she could play like that. In fact, from here on, she played less and less on stage and in studio. So strange and sad.
Brilliant.
Fantastic arrangement; one of the best displays of both Karen and Richard Carpenter ... thanks very much for posting. Incredible talent ... miss you Karen!
I loved it when Karen played the drums. She was beautiful and played the drums. And always souned so awesome with that voice.
The truly amazing thing is they're performing without monitors.
Imagine in 2012 if a group came on a late night show and said, "sure we'll play some hits for 10 minutes, but we want to play some other obscure number just for our enjoyment for another 5 minutes." Would the host have the sense to give the audience this pleasure (or power to make it happen)? Would the network give them the time instead of running another commercial? Would the group actually want to take such a venture? Just curious.
Karen is Absolutely Incredible! Also, she is so pretty, healthy, young and has such a Great personality!
Miss you, Karen. ♥️♥️♥️🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
F-ing amazing.
That was the best live "Guder".
Still my favorite live Carpenters clip... KC on drums, RC with the badass Odyssey solo, killer song better than the studio version... Damn.
PURE MAGIC!
Thanks for that!
Richard's arraingement is brilliant, but Karen on the drums here is genious...her emotion as it tilts with the slaps amd bumps of the drums is .... hell, it priceless!
Her singing is fantastic. ...yet listen to the drums; they are musical, poetic; they sing while she sings. Look at her face: happiness bar none. Drums put that smile on her face. Maybe the eyebrows were the first sign of more yet to come? Johnny played the drums; loved her playing; sympathized, I think, with her more than a little. I wonder what he surmised when she died. I guess we will never know.
Chris Andersen what you wrote made me weepy! I miss KC so much.
She was so beautiful, and you could tell that Johnny really liked them.
It’s funny about the eyebrows, it seems to go hand in hand with the body issues. I remember thinning my eyebrows out in college as I battled some of the same demons she did. Isn’t that weird?
@@artistbrindle If you don’t mind me asking, is there a reason that you obsessed on your eyebrows? Is it an extension of seeking self control?
@@deserthound2605 really good question. It might be a control thing, or just an attempt at making everything thinner and smaller. Not sure.
I remember doing the same thing after losing a ton of weight though.
So cool even today
Excellent! There's very little footage available of Karen singing and drumming LIVE, so this was a real treat. Only the folks who attended their concerts got to see this kind of performance. Thanks for posting.
So glad I did in November, 1973. So special!
@@vickiebohy1742 Consider yourself blessed! I was fortunate to have worked on their 1977 Christmas special and I was blown away by their talent. Both of them were brilliant musicians and very sweet people. Decades later I had the opportunity to have dinner with Richard and he remembered every detail of that special and of everything else. He has a photographic mind. A true genius! And not only that, a real gentleman. It's so rare to meet people like that nowadays.
ssoko, I agree! This is supposed to be a "get even" type song! It's actually a beautiful piece of music. I bet the real Mr. Guder was flat-out impressed when he first heard the tune. Probably plays it for his grand-kids. LOL! 'Hey kids, wanna hear a great song that the Carpenters wrote and recorded in my honor?" LOL!
@wildnites558
Interesting that Mr. Guder never sued. Where could he be now?
I think your right. Her drumming passion is bellowing over.
Amazing talent! World-class, effortless!
Yeah and She does it both flawlessly, What an extraordinary talent
She is missed so much. She had a beautiful voice and a great drum player. God takes the very best !! At least we still have her memories to listen to listen to. She is with the rest in ( Rock & Roll Heaven ) singing lead!!!!
The voice of an Angel.......She brings a tear to my eye EVERYTIME.....
Man can She tear up the drums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O. My. God.
Not just great - LEGENDARY.
That good song, I love the flute sounds like in this area, there is the joy of Karen as loved and enjoyed his great passion play drums and sing the same time, transmitting all their joy, all his love all that passion that I had in his soul for the music.
Bob Messenger was the flute player.
Great song---great performance
Thought it was funny that Richard and John wrote that song about their Disneyland boss.
Great to hear Carpenters performing live here.
Buddy Rich liked her drumming
Mongo L:
High praise indeed!
She’s amazing.. seems so hard to coordinate beat and sing melody🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼
Not only that but Frank Sinatra said if he had to pay to hear one singer it would be Karen!
I like that break with the J.S. Bach style vocal acopella thing at the end. Very cool.
Due to Richard's genius as an arranger.
man this song really showed off her chops! good stuff!
She looks like she is thoroughly enjoying it.
Absolutely wonderful! I always liked this song. To see them playing it is so great! This is NOT an easy song to play or sing. Karen does both with finesse and sweet confidence. I'm a professional drummer of 35 years and she is quite good. What a terribly sad loss! Thanks for posting this!!!
She had impeccable technique and an absolutely unshakable sense of tempo. She was a tasty drummer. This particular tune has about a dozen distinct tempos and she shifts from one to the other with consummate ease. Yeah, like it's easy to play those changes so crisply and sing on top of it.
She blazed a trail that wasn't followed until much later. There weren't many female drummers on the scene until the middle 70's. (I'm thinking of Alice de Buhr and Brie Brandt of Fanny).
She was a PLAYER.
@Trans909 I think Fanny was relatively recently inducted in a Hall of Fame, not sure if it was the Rock Music Music Hall of Fame but for being one of the pioneers of women in Rock and Roll, being an all female band but i also have heard some people say that Fanny was mediocre or less, and though they were one of the first or maybe the first all-women's rock band, their music was not special and they did not really make it big when they were new on the scene.
@@obscurelyvague Hmm. Bowie seemed to like them. McCartney indicated that he liked them but made no formal endorsement I can recall. Spector was wild about them and wanted to produce them. (There were very brief talks. Phil was pretty far gone by then.)
The problem was, they kind of half-managed themselves with a half-assed management company lacking the means to promote and guide them successfully.
Here is what I would have done had I been their manager with a BIG budget:
1) Seek a really good PR firm, as hip as possible for the times (I'm thinking Weiden-Kennedy) and work out a three year promotion plan: recording, release album at a prime moment depending on album "theme," maximum viability for release of radio, magazine, TV ads. In other words, plan, strategize for a minimum of 36 months. Time it carefully to ONE album per year, THREE tours opening or headlining if possible.
2)Push for interviews. Kiss Jann Wenner's ass and make him love the band and provide coverage on tours AND the studio, AND compare/contrast the events in their personal lives. Use media to make them accessible and likeable. Relatable, especially to women and male "feminists."
3) USE OTHER SONGWRITERS! You're right; their songs weren't catchy enough. They needed someone with an ear for hooks. Nikki Barclay, their keyboard player and primary songwriter could be a real b***h about getting her songs in and producing them her way, sometimes clashing with the Millington sisters. That shit should have been prevented from the jump. It's a domestic dispute and while they're sniping at each other, the bills and deadlines are piling up. All that passion should have gone into writing and producing good Top 40 tunes. Therefore: hire someone experienced in Top 40 who can discipline them; show them HOW to write the killer hooks and licks. It might change their sound but that could be a GOOD thing, amirite?
4) Find a great studio with a really talented producer. I'm thinking Bill Szymczyk, the guy who produced Joe Walsh and the Eagles at the Record Plant in LA. Or RCA studios. Capitol Records. Todd Rundgren would have been a pretty cool choice for producer too, now that I think of it. Bearsville Studios is a cozy place in upstate New York. Hey, the Caribou Ranch in Colorado was in operation back then, I think. Lots of better places to record good tunes cowritten with a top-flight songwriter, recorded in a top of the line studio, by an expert producer and engineer.
5) Strategize but don't overanalyze. Keep a series of goals in mind along a 36 month path. Keep June and Nikki at peace, keep the collaborations with other players, singer, and songwriters--make a habit of it and it could become their trademark: Who is Fanny gonna work with now? (Hint: a good place to start would be with Bowie. Then some metal slashers. Then a "smoother approach. Countrify? Dare I say adopt the "California Sound" and ask Brian Wilson to give it a listen?)
Three Dog Night made a GREAT living off this sort of approach but even they fucked up because they left too many loose edges. Rock bands live on the margins. Their fortunes change like the weather. Fanny needed better prep for a changing climate and they couldn't get past the personal differences to make those changes, much as you've already noted.
We agree then. Nice. Slightly different perspectives but the same conclusions, essentially. Whattya know. It CAN be done.
@@Trans909 Wow. You ought to be some kind of manager for music artists.
You did mention having other musicians write or somehow make music for them to play and also that they should have made more "Catchy" types of tunes. I have heard of some serious rock artists rejecting such an approach because they did not want to just make music that is like a jingle and thus very commercial and some musicians rather play music they feel is genuine art and has real meaning than music that sells a lot because of "Catchy" lyrics or tunes. That i s considered selling out in some circles.
RIchard: "My group wasn't getting very far." Karen: "Nowhere!" Heh... she knew who they would soon come for.
I always imagine if Led Zepplins John Bonhan became ill and instead of cancelling the shows they asked Karen to fill in on the drums. I think the crowd would have at first been very upset seeing her but as soon as she started hitting the drums the crowd would have been blown away and I think it would have her happiest moment in life performing. I heard she loved Led Zeppelin.
All the subtleties of tempo and rhythm changes--WITH TWO DRUMMERS!
@caveatemp
Is Karen pretending to play the drums while the guy on the drums in the background is doing the work?
@@obscurelyvague No, Karen is on trap. The other guy is playing misc. perc.
fantastic without question
Buddy Rich actually said that? Wow, that indeed is a compliment!
such a cool lady.
So much talent . . . so much joy. I love this!
Oh boy Karen sure is SO TALENTED BOTH IN SINGING AND PLAYING THE DRUMS
Love it!
I could see "Genesis" doing this song! With Gabriel on the flute! Great performance.
Masterful.
What a unique song! And Karen looked at home on the drums.
I believe she was the drummer for the group Richard was talking about. She was a performing drummer before she was a singer.
Exactly. She started out when tuba player and friend Wes Jacobs, and Richard, along with Karen were THE DICK CARPENTER TRIO. They were students at the University of California,Long Beach.
They were on tv in the College Battle of the Bands. I remember Karen playing drums( her name was on the kick drum). She didn't sing, but she tore up the drums in that jazz number they played. Wes, the last I heard, was playing in a symphony. Of course, we know where Karen and Richard's career went. So thankful. After the Dick Carpenter Trio ended, Richard formed SPECTRUM with 2 other college friends. They them stayed on as part of their studio/ tour band.
I love Karen Carpenter
I'm speechless...Wow!
Jim Southern you were lucky to get to see the Carpenters perform in concert just for writing the note . That was a great thing you did I wish I would have thought of that so I could have seen them in concert. Not every body is lucky enough to get a free ticket to see any concert. I also miss Karen’s music and wish I could have seen them.
Karen can do it all, and I'm also struck by once again how polite and gracious she and Richard are. Johnny seems to genuinely like them.
Damn... what a great drummer.... besides the wonderful voice!
always loved this song so unusual
Loved this song back then and still to this day! Loved the live version. Karen never sounded better! Wow, how I miss the Carpenters. Can’t wait to get the new CD.
I think if I'd been mr Guder i would have been proud to have my name in a song performed by the carpenters.
RIGHT???!!!!!! :)
What a fantastic technique and sound!!! Jazzy progressive sound with Hammond B3, Wurlitzer piano, Flute and vocals. They was the best!!!
The sound engineer did a great job. It's great they are live, and not lip-syncing like so many other shows did then.
She was certainly a superstar. Probably the best voice since Judy Garland. Also a good drummer. She has been long missed as well a s Mr Johnny Carson...
Better than Judy Garland by far in my opinion. Judy can't compare to Karen.
@unclekk92
This song's called "Mr. Guder" I believe it's from the "Close to You" LP.
Man, I'm getting shivers watching this. She was so incredibly talented and unmatched today. There's only been very few singing drummers in the business at that time---Phil Collins of Genesis and Don Henley of The Eagles. I think Karen was one of a handful--if any--who sang at the same time---and so fabulously well!!
One word:Bravo!
Karen seemed happiest when drumming and singing. Saw them twice in concert and they were absolutely perfection.....a joyous experience that I will never forget. thanks for the vid!
hee hee hee so awesome they wrote that song lol Karen had a great sense of humour!