A review of Thomas Talbott's chapter 5 in The Inescapable Love of God, probably the best presentation of universal salvation in the Christian faith. (Faith&Reality20171105)
What I wrote to our brother Thomas Talbott... Dear brother Talbott, Im 66, and been a self conscious christian since 1975 - making my way through being a Baptist, then becoming a reformed Presbyterian, without even knowing such existed - I really thought I went off the deep end! Lately I’ve become a Universalist or convinced that it is at least the most God honoring, bible honoring, paradigm to work from. I love your book! Youre thought process is beautiful to behold, and you make a great argument - but do so while leaving so much ammo on the table. Im at the part after discussing the parable of Lazarus, where you tackle 2 Thes. I dont believe this passage is talking about the individual at all, but the coming of Judgement of 70ad. The coming of Judgement and at the same time the unleashing of the Kingdom of God. Yes I also lean towards a preterist view here. I’ve read up to this point and no mention of the promise to Satan in the presence of Eve concerning the disparity between injuries, blow to the heel vs a death blow to the head. Thats the first pattern of things to come, and most consider this a solace to Eve. However, most Christians have this backwards as they twist almost all of Romans 5, not just verse 18, which shows again the disparity between Adam and Jesus. Their Jesus clearly has the head wound and gets beat up quite badly in the contest with Adam. And you have not mentioned 2Cor 5 either, and this passage is another clear Universalist position of Paul, and so important to Paul that he states, “This is our message!” So, I’ll probably find in a bit you’ll mention the above, but I wanted you to hear this also. Proper doctrine will lift Christ up, andhe being lifted will in turn “draw”. I’ve never been more drawn to Jesus than through the revelation of what he has actually accomplished, and i do believe that proper doctrine should carry its own vitamins to the believer. It changes his reality, one is not the same any longer. In one argument (a pleasant one) i had with one who thought I was off on heresey, I said: Ok, consider that youre right, and I’m a heretic destined for hell. The only thing you can point to to claim your spot in heaven is something that you have done, and not what Jesus the Christ, has done. You therefore must admit that, when it comes right down to it, you believe in works - righteousness. No answer to that, as the revelation took us both by surprise. But the really exciting thing to happen, while contemplating the finished work of Christ, was the unleashing of the love of God for my fellow man, and to my saviour. I didnt expect it. My only worry now is, having been affected emotionally, can I possibly still hear reason? So back to your book - thank you for the reasoning! Yours in Christ, Bob Parsons, Jazz musician Sign painter Political cartoonist Father of 6 Husband of 40 years
Bob, your story and even your age is identical to mine. I've been posting my above questions to comment strings of various CU friendly video posts. Have you found anything on-line that will help people like us to gather and interact and fellowship in their local areas?
Dan and Bob: Amazing - I too was a Baptist > Presbyterian (pastor)>Christian Universalist! And I am 64 years old. Is this just coincidence or is there something else going on? Maybe we could have a Google meetup sometime and share our stories? My name is Wayne Fair I have a (very poor) blog at Www.sovereignlove.org
Interesting how many people absolutely HATE hearing GOOD NEWS. If Jesus wants and CAN saves everyone, you would think Christians would rejoice!!! But no, we are committed to believing Gods Anger, Wrath, Judgement and Eternal Fire. We want our Hell, we need our Hell. And we Want most of humanity (that don’t agree with our doctrine) to go to hell. Funny how hell is not found in the Bible (Hebrew/Greek origin language), and Hell originated from paganism! If you look deeper into the scriptures, God will eventually redeem all mankind. Why? Because he wants to and he can!!! Salvation is not mans business, it is Gods. Salvation is through the actions of God and his Christ, not through the actions or belief of man! This is an outstanding video and an excellent logical explanation of the scriptures! Not only was Paul a universalist, most of the early church Fathers were as well. Blotting line, GOD IS LOVE AND IS A BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN WE CAN THINK OR IMAGINE!! Happy 2021 everyone.
They are the whitewashed tombs from Matthew 23:27. Also, they are the best advocates for the existence of hell, because I can't know what God has in his mind, but he definitely does not want sadists in Heaven.
I’m listening to this 5 years later. 50 years ago I was in a house group that believed in ultimate reconciliation and many viewed us as a cult. I’ve always believed this deep down but never made a fuss about it. This Good News is so much greater than we have yet imagined or believed
Shalom my brothers and sisters in Christ. Peace be to you. Thank you for this uploaded video. God is the savior of the world. He will reconcile everyone to Himself, all in their own order. No exceptions. How can you know this you might ask. It is the faith OF Christ, not the faith in Christ that ultimately saves everyone. Know the difference. Let no man deceive you...please. May you all come to the knowledge of the Truth that is in Christ, Jesus our Lord. Amen.
God had a plan and purpose right from the beginning, and he does not leave his plans unfinished. He has ages to come in which to complete the work of saving all, because He will be All in all.
At no point did Rob ever say that Talbott was absolutely 100% flawless in his understanding or approach to this topic. Calm down! There’s a lot there in Romans to digest. I’m tired of hearing things like; “He’s a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” “Heretic” or “Deceiver of the Elect”…blah, blah blah…….If one’s faith & mind are so weak, that you’re not even willing to look carefully and calmly at another’s idea about such matters, then what does it say about your own ‘Spiritual’ state? I have had correspondence with Talbot and I can assure you that he is a friendly & sensible level-minded man who struggles with the deeper questions like anyone else. When examining the scriptures, especially soteriology, eschatology and the like, it’s important keep an open mind. Do you think any of us have all the answers and a full & complete post-mortem knowledge of how it’s all going to go down? No, and neither Rob or Talbott are claiming they do either. Suggesting that somehow the “Devils going to get in” because you’ve simply studied another’s viewpoint is childish and asinine. No one is going to “snatch you from his hand” as Jesus promised. I have had many Mormon friends and colleagues over the years who have been eager to share their faith with me. I’ve listened very carefully, read some of their material, prayed and come to the conclusion, that it’s not for me. I simply and firmly disagree with their theology….. and that’s fine. At no point should I ever feel threatened or bamboozled into taking onboard ideas that contradict the Self-Sacrificial Love of the Father in Christ. If the Holy Spirit of Truth & Reconciliation is in you, then you’ve got nothing to worry about! This idea that these sneaky enemies of the Faith are somehow nefariously leading you away from The Cross and into Hell-fire Apostasy, is metaphysically nonsensical, logically incoherent and just simply paranoid. I suggest one read as well, after finishing Talbott - “That All shall be SAVED” by David Heart Bentley. He’s a Contemporary Philosopher & Orthodox guy who's got a firm grip and understanding on what Universal Reconciliation is all about. If you never encounter some rapids or different currents on your journey of faith, then how will you ever learn to navigate your boat when the storms of life come?
Well said David!! We can only hope that The Spirit, Who alone changes hearts, lands on the truth you have spoken here. I thoroughly enjoyed “That All Shall be Saved” as well. Although DBH is a top flight intellectual, I found the book accessible, compelling and for those of us that are persuaded that “mercy triumphs over judgement”, it is like a cup of cold water on a hot day---irrefutable.
@Rob I believe that you were meant to be one of God's great messengers. You are absolutely the most interesting and thorough scholar of philosophy and religious studies I've ever seen! Please keep it going, you have a wonderful talent for this!
This is truly an amazing talk. The speaker (what is his full name?) brings up so many valid arguments and things to consider. I’m not 100% sold on universalism but I’m really starting to lean in that direction.
Thanks for uploading this video. I felt like God led me to it. Yes, when I had jesus in front of me( if you've seen jesus, you've seen the Father) , saw love that I can't explain. But I experienced such pain regarding the people i hurt, I first hurt Jesus and it felt like it was a personal attack against him. But all the while he wasn't counting my sin against me, but showing me that he was totally qualifying me and holding me there. A great exchange was happening, everything that he is, his righteousness, his blameless, he was giving it to me. GOD HAS MADE ME HIS FRIEND and has continued to reveal his personality. He does this because he is just love. And because he is love, i couldn't see people not being saved. But his love transforming us from glory to glory. But yeah going out into churches was hard because the God I saw is much better than they believe and its been a warefare to keep holding on to what God has taught me and continues to. But God is so patient and never gives up on me and continues to be himself for me. Love never fails. THERE TRULY IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE IN CHRIST. I hope this encourages everyone. Our God is Good.
Everything you said here I amen 100%. Don't give up what God has shown you unless you find it to be unbiblical in which case it was not God showing you it. You have to test the spirit. Everything you said here is Biblical as far as I can tell and so I do believe it was God who showed it to you. Just keep reading your Bible and praying and serving God and your neighbor with all of your heart. Don't backslide and don't let anyone steel the truth from you.
@@artbyrobot1original comment said , that because of Jesus he saw was love, that's why he couldn't see how anyone could be - NOT SAVE - looks like agreeing with point of this video - salvation for all , so can you explain me sir- where you standing? Salvation for all or only for those who willingly accept process of sanctification? I'm not trying be smart at all, that's absolutely genuine question, I seen your previous comment to someone and your are only different voice so far on this thread, and I'm only humble seeker of Our Havenly Father Truth 💚 if you have it in your will- please share your view
@@karolinaszczudlo9871 In my understanding, probably 0.0001% of all people endure to the end and only he that endures to the end shall be saved. So only 0.0001% of all people enter by the narrow gate into the next life and receive rewards. The rest of the 99.9999% of all people go straight to hell where they begin their sanctification process. Hell is purgatorial, correctional, lovingly administered, time of shame and reflection and sobering. Then at the time of the 2nd resurrection, all who are in hell are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire for the final phase of their correction and while there, anything in them that remains that is not of God is removed and they are brought to total humility before God and they are overwhelmed by His love and grace and become saved by grace through faith and not of themselves but by the gift of God they receive eternal life.
Agreed! - You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. - Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. These are not threats! They're promises!
@@Jordan-hz1wr If these scriptures doesn't turn the crazy way you think, I don't know what will! 1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren ( AND JORDAN ) ye have no need that I write unto you 1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
@@Jordan-hz1wr Judge on what is written and take heed! Where will you run when you see fire and brimstone raining down from the sky, coming from every direction! Psa 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.Psa 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.Psa 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
I am so glad for your teaching for years I have had it wrong all because I have never heard some thing so simple that God has given through Jesus salvation and forgiveness For years I have tried to do it my way impossible I now realize. Thank you so much keep up your great teachings
This guy is fantastic! Too bad these students look like their parole officer made them attend. Ha! How is it possible to not laugh and cheer with such a teacher as this? Loved it!
It's a somber topic. If what he is saying is true, and it is, then the majority of the church for centuries has been teaching doctrines of devils and most of the western church is in extreme error on this. It is serious. Not only that, but if you choose to believe this or rather become fully persuaded it is true, you will be labeled a heretic and on your way to hell and the vast majority of Christians will condemn you and most will not even fellowship with you again. That also is somber.
Very glad to see the likes on this channel heavily outweigh the dislikes. It does surprise me a little considering how mainstream modern Christianity has become, but this gives me hope that more are starting to understand the truth.
So good, an excellent ‘argument’ for want of a better word ( I always say the gospel is not an intellectual argument) this is really helpful in my own journey of reconstruction! Bless you
What a fantastic breakdown. Truly engaging. I have studied the likes of George MacDonald and others that share this similar sentiment. I think you have something here. And I am happy to share it as well, as a scholar of religious epistemology.
What a professional presentation. Great dialectics, good lung power. Acting skills & "masterful oratory". All invested in the Truth of Christ. ~Steven of Montreal
This isn't about the "Truth of Christ." This is heresy. "professional presentation. Great dialectics, good lung power. Acting skills & "masterful oratory" What has ANY of this to do with biblical truth...not Steven's or Mel's version of self-truth?
@@Spartanthermopylae Are you talking about the modern day translation Bibles, or the actual original language Scriptures? Even Alan Hess can prove it with a freaking KJV. You still have your head up your azz, eh?
@@Spartanthermopylae Spartan 300: This isn't about the "Truth of Christ." Q: To which part of the video do you pit this assertion? Q: Do you object to folks groping for The Truth; for if we are blind, then where is your compassion? Q: Isn't it strangely absolutist to say that it's not even "about" the "Truth of Christ", because if you find fault with any specifics, then how can you even know what you yourself is talking "about." Spartan 300: This is heresy. Q: When you say, "this", to what are you reffering? Can you specify? Spartan 300: "professional presentation. Great dialectics, good lung power. Acting skills & "masterful oratory" A: You conviently left out: "All invested in the Truth of Christ," which followed directly after your partial quote. Besides, I just happened to notice the clarity and orderly manner in which he conveyed the information -- "All invested in..." Spartan 300: What has ANY of this to do with biblical truth Q: Short answer: Nothing, if you deliberately censor "All invested in the Truth of Christ". Q: Are you insinuating that I would assume that the Speaker in the video is speaking truth on the basis of Oratory Skill? Q: And if it just so happens, that Truth is spoken with clarity and orderliness; would it be so out of order for anybody to commend these qualites? Spartan 300: ...not Steven's or Mel's version of self-truth? Q: Am I to understand that the entire video represents what a couple of people believe? Q: Or, that Christian Universalism is based on what just a couple of people believe? Q: Or, are you just being "catty" -- LOL... (?)
Great job articulating the universalistic position was of Paul. I’m not sure if you believe this... I kept waiting for a “but.” :) I’m convinced that this is an acceptable position to hold as a Christ follower. Anyway, I’m looking forward to the next lecture. Thank you.
Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open if you are dead, you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday! V 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. v Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. v Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
@@OperationReapSinners777 What value does obedience out of fear have? If you stress judgment as God's means for destroying people who will serve God out of love instead out of fear? Where there is love there is no fear. People are judged according to their deeds may also mean that they will have to realize what impact their deeds had and by this understanding bring them back on the right way. This makes much more sense for me. If I out of love already today act in accordance with God's laws, I need not fear judgment. If I don't then discipline for what I did is necessary. What is missing in your arguments is a logical explaination for the "universalist" texts. How do they fit into your believe system without saying that the Bible is contradicting itself. Just take 1 Tim 4,10 that God is the saviour of all especially those who believe? If he does not save all, how can he rightly be called the saviour of all men? The context does not provide any means for reducing the "all" to some. And even if, the text still says that unbelievers are saved. How do you explain that? It will one day be as in the story of the lost son when the "faithful" brother asks his father after the return of the prodigal son why he receives him back and provides the best for him. This reveals the disposition of this brother's heart. He does not love therefore his "judgment" is the welcoming of his prodigal brother. There is judgment for all, in different ways. Greetings of brotherly love, Thomas
@@Thomas_Zscheile you say "What value does obedience out of fear have?" --- by this you infer that we can obey God while fearing God and that if one fears God they cannot possibly be one that also loves God. This is a false dichotomy. One is able to love God and fear God at the same time. The Bible teaches the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The Bible teaches that if you love Him you will keep His commandments. The apostles did fear the Lord and said: Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Also, the Bible teaches some save by compassion, making a distinction, and some save by fear pulling them from the flames. So then, warning people of the coming wrath is Biblical and fearing entering into that wrath was taught consistently in the Bible. Paul says explicitly do not be arrogant but be afraid, for you stand by faith and if you do not remain in His goodness you too shall be cut off! We are commanded explicitly to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. You are plainly opposing all these scriptures about the fear of God. Obedience by fear and by love combined is best. Obedience toward God has great reward and one should always fear the Lord. He is holy and He is just and He is able to reward but also well able to mete out His righteous wrath if you do not submit to Him. You say "who will serve God out of love instead out of fear?" --- again, you prove ignorant of scripture for plainly you assume that anyone who fears God cannot and must not also love God. Nothing can be further from the truth. The two are married. You are divorcing them. We are to both fear and love God perfectly and these two things are harmonious. You say where there is love there is no fear. Your understanding of this notion is flawed. You are referencing this verse: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." --- this verse is not teaching that we should not fear the Lord as you wrongly suppose. What it is teaching is that when you are walking in perfect obedience and serving the Lord wholeheartedly, you are not presently afraid that God is going to punish you because you are in rightstanding and walking in His favor and goodness and He is revealing Himself to you and showing you His love for you. However, even while in that place of perfect love, you still fear what will happen if you fall away, have your faith shipwrecked, return to your vomit, are cut off for not bearing fruit, build up what you have torn down, etc. Therefore, knowing the goodness and severity of God, you work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You don't get cocky. It says if you think you stand take heed lest ye fall. So there is that concern even when you are standing strong that you could fall if you don't continue to stay focused and serious about walking the narrow path. And you do know that God is more than willing to unleash his wrath on you if you willfully sin after having come to a knowledge of the truth. You say "People are judged according to their deeds may also mean that they will have to realize what impact their deeds had and by this understanding bring them back on the right way" --- I agree that this is one for sure way they are judged - particularly in the Lake of Fire judgement, however, it is not the only way. For example someone can get STDs for fornicating. That is a reaping of what you have sewn and being judged according to your deeds. Also the severity of the judgement of the age to come is greater for some than others depending on what they were given and to those whom much is given much is required.
Thank you! Best regards from Sout-West of Germany! Here you are alone when you believe and talk about the neverending love of God, the father of our LORD Jesus.
This and everything around this is making me giddy as a kid in a 59 year old body, i could never quite reconcile God losing the majority of the human race, His creation to either death or eternal torment, how is that, love winning exactly?
Yahweh is not the Father. Find the N.O.G. Bible (Names of God) and check out the switches between God, LORD and Yahweh. Yahweh is angry, murderous, a plunderer, etc. this is not the God the Father that Jesus describes in the NT. Does God change? No....He is the same yesterday, today and forever ❤ God bless you!
Great job explaining (within context) how the universal scope of “all” is determined by context. “All” in these verses cited actually means “all”. There is no way around it. You have to do some amazing scriptural gymnastics to do away with the parallelism that is so clearly communicated by Paul!
@@chadpugh443 you ask "So what is he saying? That ALL will be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven?" ---yes, but most do not enter until after fiery judgement in the afterlife for a long time and only then, after their punishment and after their surrender and submission and repentance and faith in Christ, only then, are they all ultimately saved in the fullness of time. You ask "Like EVERY SINGLE PERSON " --- yes, every single being, fallen angels and the devil as well will all repent and be saved in time You ask "believer or not?" --- no, we are not saying while unbelieving people are saved. This is the type of strawman argument that gives us a bad name. Nobody can come while in rebellion. We are merely claiming God will end the rebellion in every heart and every heart will belond to Him eventually in the life to come. Only a FEW hearts ever belong to Him in this life like the Bible teaches. But His love never gives up on the rest and they all eventually come around. All flesh shall see the salvation of the Lord.
You're right on 2 Thes 2. It's about an apostate within Judaism defiling the Temple, helping to provoke Rome into attacking and delivering the eschatological judgement.
An absolutely incredible display of all of these key points that make even the most Fundamentalist Christians at least consider and question their current views on hell. I'm not a Universalist now too, AMEN! Need to get that book.
There are a number of good books that I have read and own concerning this subject ( some written over 100 years ago) . One that I recommend as a first book to read is a relatively recent book titled 'Heaven's Doors' by George Sarris ( or check him out on utube and also a guy called Robin Parry) .
The only position we can know to be false is the Eternal Conscious Torment position(as normally stated). We know that God is ontologically Agape, and that Agape always seeks the welfare of the other. Therefore we know that God's intention must always be salvation for all(albeit this doesnt necessarily conclude to universalism). So one proposing ECT MUST either deny that God is ONTOLOGICALLY agape, reject the definition provided, or show how suffering forever could be seen as well-being .
Say Brother, right around the 1:40 mark you refer to the “infinite” love of God twice w/in a minute of each other. Considering the referencing of Mr. Talbot as the text it might have been more apropos to have referred to the “inescapable” love of God, don’t you think? Or perhaps the infinite inescapable love of God! Wow now there’s a wallop. You certainly deserve a “do over” if you want w/ such a fine presentation. Very well done. Really appreciated the small intimate gathering for the setting as well. A very courteous captivated audience.
I had a dream of a seed, a plant sprouted out of that seed and then was “reversed back in”, back to the original seed, I’m not saying it was from God but I had a strong feeling it was upon waking up. And this was before I even know such a thing as universalism. Existed.. maybe now I know where God was leading me.
When his majesty visited Julian of Norwich,he held out his hand and opened it to reveal a mixture of seeds. He then said to her; "This is all that there is" . The seed is symbolic of so much of our Kings character. I would say that dream was a blessing to be sure. Love.
sounds to me like someone losing their faith which starts as a seed and grows into a plant. If that reverses because they don't persevere, the faith could return to the state of being just a seed again, no longer growing. We have to endure and remain in the faith and keep working out our faith with fear and trembling.
@@kathyheavner3585 I agree. But did the Apostle Paul believe and repent in Jesus? Or did Jesus knock him off his horse , and then blind him ? As he was off to kill sinners?
For those of you quoting judgement and atonement scriptures, keep in mind that for the Christian universalist that salvation for all is only available because of the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Also, they do believe in hell and the lake of fire. It’s just that the fire is remedial and purgatorial and not eternal since the Greek word means for an age. So there is a final judgment and a Book of Life and all believers will go straight to heaven but the rest will be cast into the lake of fire for a period of time according to the light received and rejected and gravity of sins. Eventually though all will be saved. As the Church Father Origen states: “nothing is impossible for the Omnipotent; no being is incurable for the One who created it.” This was the predominant view of the church until around the 5th century and even Augustine admits this.
Universal Reconciliation, many may be surprised to find this out, but it was the prevailing doctrine of the early church, they say for at least the first five centuries, I recommend with love you look first, But it is not a false doctrine, and God is good to all and His compassion rests on all He has made the Bible says, I recommend doing more research, especially into the first languages of the Bible before they were translated into latin, Koine Greek is the first language of the New Testament, and forever separation from God is not in there, it's in part due to a false translation of the word "Aionon" which does not mean forever with punishment, it also is used for Age, and those of us who have seen know that in Psalm 139:8 it says " If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." but this is just the beginning there is much more, like 1 Timothy 4:10 which in it it sys He is the savior of "all men, especially of believers" so not only but especially, and this will help you see, we need salvation from judgment, and also at times deliverance from earthly death, but if we go off the scriptures God Himself said He will save all in that verse I just showed, so now about the especially part, this means those worthy in Christ don't have to go through judgement they pass from death straight into life, because they have been born again already, we died in our baptism with Jesus, but now everyone else must be born again, they will die, then die again to themselves, a "second death" do you now see? and it shows them on the outside of the kingdom in the last pages of Revelation, after the lake of fire, remember this "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is Love" (The Total Victory Of Christ) Channel on UA-cam has the answers.
Romans 5:18-21 flat out supports universalism and it concludes with the more sin there is, the more grace there is to cover it. Many people confuse "kingdom of heaven" with the afterlife. It's both in the afterlife and here on earth if you do the will of God. Others point to Revelations, but that doesn't tell you anything plainly, it's in code. It's a prophecy. And even if you took it at face value it doesn't talk about everyone, it's talking about those who are alive. And they overlook "Death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire."
Jesus truly is the Savior of the World! - John 4:42, 1 John 4:14, 1 Tim 4:9-11 He won't fail His mission! John 1:29, 3:17, 12:47, Isa 55:11 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:18-19
Gal 6:7 God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. YOU CAN LAUGH NOW BUT YOU WILL SURELY CRY LATER! V Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy....
@@OperationReapSinners777 yes lets sow to the spirit...so that we view death as the start of life in the spirit and not view death as the end. It's a matter of perspective. All were forgiven because of the cross of Christ. Not all know this obviously. But when we do know; there is a change in the way we view life and death in the Lord. Jesus is more than just a potential Savior. He is indeed the "Savior of the world" as the Bible describes. I know you believe in anihilation which is a view of a failed Christ. Jesus was completely successful on the cross. The entire world was forgiven; especially including all of Israel. "The Pearl of Great Price is the world. *The entire floor swept and coins found was the all of Israel and the world *The entire lump leavened is the world. *The entire floor purged is the world.
@@OperationReapSinners777 God is going to work it all together for our good. Sometimes a person has to die literally before they realize God. Death doesn't stop God. God always wins. It is a good thing that this life isn't the only method in which God affects us. You should know this.
@@noahwaters5341 God rained down fire and brimstone on the two cities called Sodom and Gomorrah! Jesus said history will repeat! SINNERS TAKE HEED GIVE YOUR LIFE TO JESUS OUR SOON COMING KING!!! V Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife. Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. THE REMAINS OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH FOUND!!! V ua-cam.com/video/yN9CndSbxpo/v-deo.html
Rom. 8 Verses 38 to 39 [38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As a Christian who has not grew in a church nor with practicing Christians. This is obvious to me as I am not brain washed with dogma. Just read the Bible ✅ God does NOT lie ✅ and He does NOT speak to fill space. The good news is everyone is saved some where some how and your other option will be being deleted. No one will remember sin.
This was an excellent presentation of apokatastasis universalism. I disagreed with some of the irresistable grace and salvation has nothing to do with our accepting it or our free will coming into play whatsoever and we do nothing it just is thrust upon us. That type of teaching I disagree with - I believe it is synergistic - God works in us to will and to do His good pleasure but we also by our own free choice accept the free gift and draw near to God willingly. But outside of that, you presented so many powerful arguments for universalism I shudder to think what I would do to put up a fight with this if I were not already a universalist. Just a powerful and thorough job as a primer. But it does keep going much deeper and much broader. This was just a powerful first battle thrust with many more waves upon waves of arguments and thrusts that can be made to break down and completely destroy infernalism and annihilationism which must happen ASAP or at least would be nice, very nice and very helpful in so many ways for so many.
@@Spartanthermopylae The majority of the early church overwhelmingly believed in the ultimate restoration and salvation of God's creatures for most of the of the first 5 centuries immediately after Christ .
@@richardbuse228 the lake of fire is in Heaven as seen of John in Heaven and the lake of fire judges. Also death destroyed by God.. but in Revelation is said that death is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
@@richardbuse228 The lake of fire is in Heaven as it is seen of John in Heaven and the lake of fire judges ("have their part"). Also "death" is destroyed by God.. but in Revelation is said that death is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
I really enjoyed this in my opinion he presented interesting information. I would like to heard more of his teachings but I can't find his name . What is his name ? Blessings to All,
The Malahat? As in Victoria? Im trying to find a church in b.c. that believes in Universal reconciliation, id love that get plugged into one but not that easy to find.
I teach universal salvation over on my channel. You're right, it does start with Paul. And in fact, Paul warns about "CERTAIN MEN CAME FROM JAMES"... those works guys are awful.
@@TheHumbuckerboy He's referring to Galatians 2:12. But he's interpreting it to mean that James taught them to live under the old Law, which doesn't really make sense. Paul is either just noting a fact, that these individuals resisted James' teachings in Jerusalem, or he's accusing James of not properly communicating the death of the old covenant. The least-reasonable interpretation of this verse is that James was intentionally teaching Jews salvation under the old covenant, which makes no sense, especially considering what James said in Acts 15:19.
The Riley Zone there are several verses that state that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and Jesus said that man shall not live but by every word of God, so it is definitely implied that in order to be completely reconciled back with God, one must be reconciled back with his word.
Why can't you see I believe the words of Jesus, and the clear message from his disciples! 😢 Please believe Jesus, I plead for you. The ending of this chapter is so serious 🙏 1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. V Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Can someone explain Romans 8:21? Does it have something to do with universal reconciliation or is it about something else? Who is the creature referred in this verse?
It is more than universal reconciliation. It is all of creation. It is the undoing of what happened in the fall in Genesis 3:17: To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life." What Paul is talking about in Romans 8:21 is what is talked about at the end of John's Revelation: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” (Revelation 21:3-and following)
Very well done brother. However, the greatest idol, “free will”, must go at some point. He’s not waiting on us to “come around” and finally conform our will. Yahweh alone does that, forcefully, like He did with Paul. He doesn’t ask our permission, ever, in any case. He just does His work in us, and that’s that. We are not His boss, He does not need our consent nor permission to save us. He just does it, reconciling all creation back to Himself through Yeshua His Son. Now that’s the Good News. :). HalleluYah. Amen.
@@Charlie-xp9lq If that's true, then God is evil, and he's making me type this calling him evil. That just doesn't sit right with me. I think God gave creatures freedom to choose between good and evil. But we are no more able to defeat God's plans than I am able to defeat Magnus Carlsen in chess.
@@GreenWeasel11 In our day to day lives we make all sorts of choices , some good some bad . The Father doesn't sweat the little things that don't effect his Will . But he has Total control if we try and step outside of his Will . He will pull the rug out quick smart . And after reading this best you get straight back to getting better at chess .
I’ve only just come across this possibility and I must say it’s very intriguing. I looked for scripture that teaches free will and found nothing that was convincing. It’s a bit of a shocker currently, but is so very interesting an idea!
4. God has already saved all in Christ. We just need to look beyond ego to see it. hell and heaven are realities here and now, depending on whether you identify with ego or that-which-you-really-are.
Careful that reasoning is a slippery slope and definitely dosnt account for deep inquality in this life, some innocent in "hell" / some guilty living in "heavenly" situations.
In 1 Timothy 4:10 it says “we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” Remember God isn’t just loving He is love, search the total victory of Christ Channel on UA-cam, the word Aionon means age, not eternal when talking about punishment it says “Age” in the original and literal translation, nor does it say forever and ever, the Bible was written in Koine Greek, and universal reconciliation is the truth, remember when the Israelites threw their babies into the fire of Baal?, God said it didn’t even come to His mind, and demons tricked them, and satan is deceiving the nations right now, but Jesus says to fear not we are worth more than many sparrows, ❤️ “Love never fails” and the fire is not literal either, God speaks of the slavery in Egypt of the Israelites as an “Iron smelting furnace” He says He finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and He would never torture anyone forever in fire, the kingdom the Christian’s inherit and rule over the nations on the outside, then after it’s done talking about the lake of fire, it says the others are on the “outside” in the last pages of revelation, the word in Koine Greek is “exo”, and it’s used 63 times in the New Testament but never once for death, if you want to, you can help spread this, but either way you are loved by God, and nothing can change that, we are to repent and come out from the worldly ways that are evil, to be set apart because the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and there will be rewards and punishments, but it’s not eternal, God’s justice is always rooted in His nature of love and goodness, and His punishments have the goal of restoration in mind, Jesus says in the unmerciful servant you won’t get out “until” you have paid the last penny, every single being, wicked and righteous will rise from the dead, and those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens and the realm of the dead “hades” does not have literal fire that we are tormented in, God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all the Bible says.
There so so many verses in the Bible that disprove the idea of Universalism. You can introduce any human thoughts into the verses of the Bible and say look, the Bible teaches universalism. It's a result of human intellectualism and human sensitivities. The Bible is full of verses that refute universalism and below are just a couple of them. "holiness without which we will not see the Lord" (Heb 12:14) "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her that he might sanctify her" (Ephe.5:26)
Yes, when I was still a child, my parents were equally clear to me that, if I do not eat all my broccoli' all my teeth are going to fall out! And it worked really well - today I looove broccoli!
The Bible says "And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment" Hebrews 9:27. Note the words "each person....... once and after that". Now back to the verses I quoted, we are made holy here on earth, while living, by the washing by the precious blood of Jesus. The church exists as the bride of Christ only until the bridegroom returns for His marriage.After that there will be no church. Christ sanctifies His church now,and definitely not after His marriage. So the idea that those who are not part of His church now, despite repeated invitation, will get another chance is unbiblical and a heresy. Simply, the chance to be made holy and to be sanctified (to see the Lord) is now.Numerous other verses prove that. Universalism assumes that God will give others a second chance and that's totally unscriptural
Aji D Hebrews 9:27 does indeed say live once and then face judgment. But it doesn’t say that judgment is the end. They don’t get a “second chance” you’re right. It is the time for judgment which implies a sentencing and a punishment to be carried out. Just because they face judgment, a sentencing and punishment doesn’t mean they’re eternally doomed. Once the punishment is up and the debt been paid they are released. There are two types of punishment: retributive and restorative. One seeks revenge for a pain dealt to the offended, the other seeks the rehabilitation and reconciliation of the offender. Which sounds more in character for the God who is LOVE? Look at Revelation 14:11 “and the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever (to the age of ages)” Firstly forever and ever doesn’t exist in the Bible. The Greek word is Aion meaning age. Forever and ever is redundant and incorrect. Secondly that word torment in Greek is basanos meaning to test for purity. Like in proverbs 17:3 “A crucible for silver and a furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the heart.” Its a metallurgical image. The lake of fire is a crucible to burn Sin(impure metals like iron and lead) from the us(Gold). When you use a touchstone to test (basanos) gold the impure metals will smoke. That is the punishment: the medicine that burns. It were better for us to have a millstone tied to our necks and drown than to end up there(Luke17:2) but it isn’t eternal. At some point all the sin will be burnt out.
Since it says that God will add the plagues written in his book to anyone who adds to what he has written, and take your name out of the book of life if you take away from his book, I think i would be VERY VERY careful with this little undertaking here. It sounds really good what you are saying, but there are reasons why people are not too quick to jump on board with you.
I would do my research on the book of revelation if I were you. Most of the book is quite different from Old Testament passages. I wouldn’t trust it 100%
This speaker is in grave danger of Hell fire! It’s okay to keep his belief to himself but to publicly encourage others to believe that in the end, everyone will make it to Heaven is horrific.
@@brianbachinger6357 If I believe in eternal torment or annihilation, at least I can be saved through the Lord Jesus Christ. If I believe in universalism, I don’t need Jesus and I’ll end up in Hell if universalism turned out to be false.
You spend alot of time trying to get the audience to be open minded. Why work so hard when it should be easy to get people to agree to a view that allows non believing loved ones to be with them in heaven. Universalism is the only stance for those Christian's who are truly loving.
When people have been utterly brainwashed to believe in ECT, it is not an easy process to break that down in someone’s mind. Especially because it becomes incased in utter fear for many.
"You spend alot of time trying to get the audience to be open minded. Why work so hard when it should be easy to get people to agree to a view that allows non believing loved ones to be with them in heaven." Because it's not biblical! "open minded" is this a euphemism for brain-washing...as in leaving your brains at the front door, Simon?
...i really enjoyed this talk. there was, however, one small error i'd like to address: your reference to Robin Parry. his last name isn't Perry, which is how you presented it; it's Parry. i only mention this because his teaching has meant so much to me, and some of your listeners may try unsuccessfully to find him, if his last name is misspelled. ...and, i'm a grammar nazi. sorry.
And ... he wrote the book titled 'The Evangelical Universalist' under the name of Gregory MacDonald. I had to laugh when James White sought to refute Christian Universalism and he was citing Robin's book but White wasn't even aware that Robin Parry was the real name of it's author. Funnier still was that White obviously hadn't got a clue as to who the 'Gregory' or the 'MacDonald' were or their significance !
What do you do with Romans 10: 9 - 10 ? Also there is "Behold the goodness and severity of god. On those that fell , severity, but on thee goodness. If you continue in his goodness. Otherwise you shall also be cut off." Romans 11 :22. What do we do with that one?
This doesn't answer your question, but one could just as easily quote Romans 11:32, "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all", and ask what we do with that.
Bought the book and audio book the first two chapters definitely do not answer What About or What about, I really hope this gets better, with more scripture evidence because the first two chapters are based off feelings or believing how God should be.... Ugh.... (UPDATE IT does get much better in chapter 4, I hope the rest of the book is good as chapter 4).
@@Pgfracing You're very welcome. BTW the first author's surname is actually spelt ' Sarris' ( I shall go back and edit my original comment which the computer misspelt ). George Hurd also has written an excellent book dealing with Christian Universalism compared with Calvinism and Arminianism titled 'The Universal Solution'.
2 Corinthians 11 : 3 " But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness your thoughts may be corrupted from the simplicity and purity which look to Christ."
John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978 - “Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore the whole of humanity, is redeemed, saved, ennobled to the extent of participating in ‘divine life’ by means of Grace.” John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 4), Dec. 7, 1990 - “The Redemption event brings salvation to all, ‘for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery.’”
What about this?: ◄ Matthew 25 ►41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
While I love Talbott's book, many proponents of this view trip over God's Holy Standard (His law). He will "salt every man with fire". We either judge ourselves now, or will face the lake of fire. www.theplace.ca/copy-of-about-us
not even that think about this look at a child compared to yourself in terms of knowledge u obviously know way more than a child even if there not yours as an adult it’s your responsibility to protect children so if you see someone else’s child about to run into the street being an intellectual superior to that child your suppose to stop them by any means necessary even if that means grabbing them and pulling them away from the road against there will and no judge in there right mind would tell you that you were wrong to violate the child’s free will in that way and God is infinitely more just than any human judge yes the Bible says we can’t understand his ways but that’s because his ways are so great not because they are so different he gave us a sense of right and wrong a moral compass he didn’t ask us to completely abandon that moral compass in order to be saved and my moral compass tells me eternal suffering is wrong even for the person that supposedly wants it
I've thought very similar about this too but almost everyone I know seems to almost "cheer for it" so idk but really feel frustrated and confused since there's so many denominations and beliefs etc and almost every pastor, teacher, etc has a bit different variation on their interpretation of Scripture and I'm definitely no scholar so I have a hard enough time interpreting some of the basics...
1. Let Paul be Paul. 2. This is an entire letter to the Romans and chapter 5 must be taken in the context of the 16 chapters as well as in the sense of Chapter 5. 3. Jesus is the one who is giving the salvation and righteousness. What does he say? In the Sermon on the Mount He says the way is narrow to life and the way is broad leading to destruction. 4. If you want a more meaningful parallel, see Matthew 25, where the greek word for eternal is applied in the same verse to sheep and goats. The sheep to eternal life and the goats to eternal destruction. We all wish unversalism could be true when we think of our loved ones, but the one who must be valued above our loved ones and our own life is the God who is free to express His character and endure with much patience vessels prepared for destruction. He is God of wrath, judgment, holiness, mercy and love. Not just love. The Bible does not say "love, love, love," but it does say of the Lord, "Holy, holy, holy."
1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Heb 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! Heb 12:10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. Heb 12:11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Heb 12:12Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. Heb 12:13"Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed. Heb 12:14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. Now read the conclusion of your message, let Jesus speak. Let God be true and every man a liar. V Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jhn 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jhn 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, YE SPINNES; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Psa 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye SAINTS OF HIS, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness. Psa 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,Jde 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
@@OperationReapSinners777 hey, I’m the past I can find the way that people who believe in ECT very irritating and I can find it difficult to maintain the fruit of self control. Recently, I’ve wanted to really work on this. I’m wondering what people who believe the bible teaches ECT think we are being ultimately saved from? Do they believe ultimately it is being punished in eternal hell?
@@lc2077 I can assure you that there will be no eternal torment, but only the second death. There is no coming back from the second death, because there is no third resurrection mentioned in all of scripture. There only will be two resurrections, at the coming of the Lord. V Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Act 24:15 And I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Act 24:16So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man. Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
at 1 hour 36 minutes you quote II THESS ... here it is in the CONCORDANT LITERAL NEW TESTAMENT: 9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength --
John 14:6 New King James Version 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Doesn’t universalism provide another way other than Christ to come to the father? By eventually raising everyone up to the kingdom once their sins are burned away? Wouldn’t that technically be a third resurrection? Since the lake of fire is considered the second death?
God has given all things unto Christ, as the moral Ruler of the world. “Ask of me, and I will give you the heathen for your inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.” Psalms 2:8 “The Father loves the Son, and has given ALL things into his hand.” (John 3:35) “All things,” here, means all intelligent beings, so say the best commentators. (The word "things" is in italics in the KJV which means it is not in the Greek. We are not talking about trees here.) God gave all beings to Christ that he might save them. “You have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.” (John 17:2) This plainly tells us that it was God’s design, in giving Christ dominion over all flesh, that they should all enjoy eternal life. It is certain that Christ will save all that the Father has given him. “All that the Father gives me, shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will in nowise cast out.” (John 6:37) These three propositions are irrefutable evidence of the final happiness of all men. 1st that God has given all things to Christ. 2nd that all that God has given him shall come to him; and 3rd that him that comes Christ will in no-wise cast out. ..... All are given; all shall come; and none shall be cast out. What is the unavoidable conclusion? --- It is THE WILL of God that all men shall be saved. “Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.” KJV (1 Tim. 2:4) By “all men”, in this passage, it is undoubtedly to be understood all the human race. Salvation comes through the belief of the truth. God wills that all men should come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved thereby. God inspires the hearts of the good to pray for the salvation of all men, and say, as Jesus said, “Thy will be done.” Matt. @. Adam Clarke says, “Because he wills the salvation of all men, therefore he wills that all men should be prayed for; as in 1 Tim. 2:1. “I exhort, therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men.” Would God inspire the hearts of his saints to pray for the salvation of all mankind, if he knew they would not all be saved? Jesus came to do the will of God. “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” John 4:34 “Lo, I come to do they will, O God.” Heb. 10:9 The will of God is, that all men be saved. Thank God!
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, YE SPINNES; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Psa 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye SAINTS OF HIS, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness. Psa 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,Jde 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
A . You can admit someone is "Lord" without loving them. Just ask any power that surrendered to a rival power in war. They really really wish the other power was NOT their Lord. B. If Hitler had conquered the world, his propagandists would have said "he saved the world, especially those who are loyal Nazis" . Looooootta other folks would have experienced Nazi World from behind barbed wire in a pair of striped pajamas though. C. If 10 billion people cease to exist except for like 32 people who love Jesus, that's every knee and every tongue *that exists* . D. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them". "Fear not, little flock, it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom." Quality over quantity. E. Preterism is the correct eschatological hermeneutic. So all of Christ's enemies, including death, were conquered 1900+ years ago. Almost no one is an actual Christian believer and it would only be 1/8 of humanity if you counted every nominal Christian as a real one. Whatever Christ's victory means, it obviously doesn't mean everyone becomes a Christian.
What I wrote to our brother Thomas Talbott... Dear brother Talbott,
Im 66, and been a self conscious christian since 1975 - making my way through being a Baptist, then becoming a reformed Presbyterian, without even knowing such existed - I really thought I went off the deep end! Lately I’ve become a Universalist or convinced that it is at least the most God honoring, bible honoring, paradigm to work from. I love your book! Youre thought process is beautiful to behold, and you make a great argument - but do so while leaving so much ammo on the table. Im at the part after discussing the parable of Lazarus, where you tackle 2 Thes. I dont believe this passage is talking about the individual at all, but the coming of Judgement of 70ad. The coming of Judgement and at the same time the unleashing of the Kingdom of God. Yes I also lean towards a preterist view here.
I’ve read up to this point and no mention of the promise to Satan in the presence of Eve concerning the disparity between injuries, blow to the heel vs a death blow to the head. Thats the first pattern of things to come, and most consider this a solace to Eve. However, most Christians have this backwards as they twist almost all of Romans 5, not just verse 18, which shows again the disparity between Adam and Jesus. Their Jesus clearly has the head wound and gets beat up quite badly in the contest with Adam.
And you have not mentioned 2Cor 5 either, and this passage is another clear Universalist position of Paul, and so important to Paul that he states, “This is our message!”
So, I’ll probably find in a bit you’ll mention the above, but I wanted you to hear this also. Proper doctrine will lift Christ up, andhe being lifted will in turn “draw”. I’ve never been more drawn to Jesus than through the revelation of what he has actually accomplished, and i do believe that proper doctrine should carry its own vitamins to the believer. It changes his reality, one is not the same any longer. In one argument (a pleasant one) i had with one who thought I was off on heresey, I said:
Ok, consider that youre right, and I’m a heretic destined for hell. The only thing you can point to to claim your spot in heaven is something that you have done, and not what Jesus the Christ, has done. You therefore must admit that, when it comes right down to it, you believe in works - righteousness. No answer to that, as the revelation took us both by surprise. But the really exciting thing to happen, while contemplating the finished work of Christ, was the unleashing of the love of God for my fellow man, and to my saviour. I didnt expect it. My only worry now is, having been affected emotionally, can I possibly still hear reason? So back to your book - thank you for the reasoning!
Yours in Christ,
Bob Parsons,
Jazz musician
Sign painter
Political cartoonist
Father of 6
Husband of 40 years
Bob, your story and even your age is identical to mine. I've been posting my above questions to comment strings of various CU friendly video posts. Have you found anything on-line that will help people like us to gather and interact and fellowship in their local areas?
Dan and Bob: Amazing - I too was a Baptist > Presbyterian (pastor)>Christian Universalist! And I am 64 years old.
Is this just coincidence or is there something else going on?
Maybe we could have a Google meetup sometime and share our stories?
My name is Wayne Fair
I have a (very poor) blog at
Www.sovereignlove.org
Bob Parsons, Artist. thank you for writing this!
BOB DO U HAVE NOTES ON FB???? GARY A
Look up John Gavazzoni and Richard Goyette!
Interesting how many people absolutely HATE hearing GOOD NEWS. If Jesus wants and CAN saves everyone, you would think Christians would rejoice!!! But no, we are committed to believing Gods Anger, Wrath, Judgement and Eternal Fire. We want our Hell, we need our Hell. And we Want most of humanity (that don’t agree with our doctrine) to go to hell. Funny how hell is not found in the Bible (Hebrew/Greek origin language), and Hell originated from paganism! If you look deeper into the scriptures, God will eventually redeem all mankind. Why? Because he wants to and he can!!! Salvation is not mans business, it is Gods. Salvation is through the actions of God and his Christ, not through the actions or belief of man! This is an outstanding video and an excellent logical explanation of the scriptures! Not only was Paul a universalist, most of the early church Fathers were as well. Blotting line, GOD IS LOVE AND IS A BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN WE CAN THINK OR IMAGINE!! Happy 2021 everyone.
That’s the religious spirit doing that to their minds.
They are the whitewashed tombs from Matthew 23:27. Also, they are the best advocates for the existence of hell, because I can't know what God has in his mind, but he definitely does not want sadists in Heaven.
It's a natural problem to man to want to be in the special group.
Hell, is majorly based upon man's lack of faith in God.
I’m listening to this 5 years later. 50 years ago I was in a house group that believed in ultimate reconciliation and many viewed us as a cult. I’ve always believed this deep down but never made a fuss about it. This Good News is so much greater than we have yet imagined or believed
Shalom my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Peace be to you.
Thank you for this uploaded video.
God is the savior of the world.
He will reconcile everyone to Himself, all in their own order.
No exceptions.
How can you know this you might ask.
It is the faith OF Christ, not the faith in Christ that ultimately saves everyone.
Know the difference.
Let no man deceive you...please.
May you all come to the knowledge of the Truth that is in Christ, Jesus our Lord. Amen.
Joseph Kirk and A.E. Knoch have done a fantastic job of teaching THE DOCTRINES OF THE EONS.
Thanks for this.
Awesome! Glory to God he is Victorious in his love and for All.
God had a plan and purpose right from the beginning, and he does not leave his plans unfinished. He has ages to come in which to complete the work of saving all, because He will be All in all.
At no point did Rob ever say that Talbott was absolutely 100% flawless in his understanding or approach to this topic. Calm down! There’s a lot there in Romans to digest. I’m tired of hearing things like; “He’s a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” “Heretic” or “Deceiver of the Elect”…blah, blah blah…….If one’s faith & mind are so weak, that you’re not even willing to look carefully and calmly at another’s idea about such matters, then what does it say about your own ‘Spiritual’ state? I have had correspondence with Talbot and I can assure you that he is a friendly & sensible level-minded man who struggles with the deeper questions like anyone else. When examining the scriptures, especially soteriology, eschatology and the like, it’s important keep an open mind. Do you think any of us have all the answers and a full & complete post-mortem knowledge of how it’s all going to go down? No, and neither Rob or Talbott are claiming they do either. Suggesting that somehow the “Devils going to get in” because you’ve simply studied another’s viewpoint is childish and asinine. No one is going to “snatch you from his hand” as Jesus promised. I have had many Mormon friends and colleagues over the years who have been eager to share their faith with me. I’ve listened very carefully, read some of their material, prayed and come to the conclusion, that it’s not for me. I simply and firmly disagree with their theology….. and that’s fine. At no point should I ever feel threatened or bamboozled into taking onboard ideas that contradict the Self-Sacrificial Love of the Father in Christ. If the Holy Spirit of Truth & Reconciliation is in you, then you’ve got nothing to worry about! This idea that these sneaky enemies of the Faith are somehow nefariously leading you away from The Cross and into Hell-fire Apostasy, is metaphysically nonsensical, logically incoherent and just simply paranoid. I suggest one read as well, after finishing Talbott - “That All shall be SAVED” by David Heart Bentley. He’s a Contemporary Philosopher & Orthodox guy who's got a firm grip and understanding on what Universal Reconciliation is all about. If you never encounter some rapids or different currents on your journey of faith, then how will you ever learn to navigate your boat when the storms of life come?
Absolutely agree. If I'm afraid my faith will crumble like a house of cards, then it is in actuality a house of cards.
“He’s a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” “Heretic” or “Deceiver of the Elect”…
Well said David!! We can only hope that The Spirit, Who alone changes hearts, lands on the truth you have spoken here. I thoroughly enjoyed “That All Shall be Saved” as well. Although DBH is a top flight intellectual, I found the book accessible, compelling and for those of us that are persuaded that “mercy triumphs over judgement”, it is like a cup of cold water on a hot day---irrefutable.
Yes People should have an open mind.
@Rob I believe that you were meant to be one of God's great messengers. You are absolutely the most interesting and thorough scholar of philosophy and religious studies I've ever seen! Please keep it going, you have a wonderful talent for this!
Yes God is using a good teacher.!
You're a great and entertaining speaker! Your channel is officially my favorite! Thank you for sharing this with us!
ua-cam.com/video/OZ7i5YMkwNw/v-deo.html
This is truly an amazing talk. The speaker (what is his full name?) brings up so many valid arguments and things to consider. I’m not 100% sold on universalism but I’m really starting to lean in that direction.
Thanks for uploading this video. I felt like God led me to it. Yes, when I had jesus in front of me( if you've seen jesus, you've seen the Father) ,
saw love that I can't explain. But I experienced such pain regarding the people i hurt, I first hurt Jesus and it felt like it was a personal attack against him. But all the while he wasn't counting my sin against me, but showing me that he was totally qualifying me and holding me there. A great exchange was happening, everything that he is, his righteousness, his blameless, he was giving it to me. GOD HAS MADE ME HIS FRIEND and has continued to reveal his personality. He does this because he is just love. And because he is love, i couldn't see people not being saved. But his love transforming us from glory to glory. But yeah going out into churches was hard because the God I saw is much better than they believe and its been a warefare to keep holding on to what God has taught me and continues to. But God is so patient and never gives up on me and continues to be himself for me. Love never fails. THERE TRULY IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE IN CHRIST. I hope this encourages everyone. Our God is Good.
Everything you said here I amen 100%. Don't give up what God has shown you unless you find it to be unbiblical in which case it was not God showing you it. You have to test the spirit. Everything you said here is Biblical as far as I can tell and so I do believe it was God who showed it to you. Just keep reading your Bible and praying and serving God and your neighbor with all of your heart. Don't backslide and don't let anyone steel the truth from you.
ua-cam.com/video/OZ7i5YMkwNw/v-deo.html
@@artbyrobot1original comment said , that because of Jesus he saw was love, that's why he couldn't see how anyone could be - NOT SAVE - looks like agreeing with point of this video - salvation for all , so can you explain me sir- where you standing? Salvation for all or only for those who willingly accept process of sanctification? I'm not trying be smart at all, that's absolutely genuine question, I seen your previous comment to someone and your are only different voice so far on this thread, and I'm only humble seeker of Our Havenly Father Truth 💚 if you have it in your will- please share your view
@@karolinaszczudlo9871 In my understanding, probably 0.0001% of all people endure to the end and only he that endures to the end shall be saved. So only 0.0001% of all people enter by the narrow gate into the next life and receive rewards. The rest of the 99.9999% of all people go straight to hell where they begin their sanctification process. Hell is purgatorial, correctional, lovingly administered, time of shame and reflection and sobering. Then at the time of the 2nd resurrection, all who are in hell are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire for the final phase of their correction and while there, anything in them that remains that is not of God is removed and they are brought to total humility before God and they are overwhelmed by His love and grace and become saved by grace through faith and not of themselves but by the gift of God they receive eternal life.
Psalm 22 all TURN to the Lord then all bend the knee and worship so it’s willingly.
Agreed!
- You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
- Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
These are not threats! They're promises!
Amen!
@@Jordan-hz1wr If these scriptures doesn't turn the crazy way you think, I don't know what will! 1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren ( AND JORDAN ) ye have no need that I write unto you 1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
@@OperationReapSinners777 I don't judge you friend. Peace to you.
@@Jordan-hz1wr Judge on what is written and take heed! Where will you run when you see fire and brimstone raining down from the sky, coming from every direction! Psa 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.Psa 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.Psa 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Thank you for posting this 🕊☮️
I am so glad for your teaching for years I have had it wrong all because I have never heard some thing so simple that God has given through Jesus salvation and forgiveness For years I have tried to do it my way impossible I now realize. Thank you so much keep up your great teachings
Wow loved the message! Thank you.
Brilliant! Keep up the good work.
thank you so much for this presentation, I totally enjoyed it.
Hello. I've just found your channel and it's a pity that there are only 3 videos in it. What a wonderful initiative!
This guy is fantastic! Too bad these students look like their parole officer made them attend. Ha! How is it possible to not laugh and cheer with such a teacher as this? Loved it!
It's a somber topic. If what he is saying is true, and it is, then the majority of the church for centuries has been teaching doctrines of devils and most of the western church is in extreme error on this. It is serious. Not only that, but if you choose to believe this or rather become fully persuaded it is true, you will be labeled a heretic and on your way to hell and the vast majority of Christians will condemn you and most will not even fellowship with you again. That also is somber.
AAAAMMMMMEEEENNNN!!!! SOOOOO PRACTICAL!!! GORDIAN KNOT IS CUT!!!! FOREVER! THANKS GARY ARONSON
Indiana Jones video clip "he shoots the arab with sword!" Alexander the great revisited!! lol GORDIAN KNOT CUT!!!
Very glad to see the likes on this channel heavily outweigh the dislikes. It does surprise me a little considering how mainstream modern Christianity has become, but this gives me hope that more are starting to understand the truth.
So good, an excellent ‘argument’ for want of a better word ( I always say the gospel is not an intellectual argument) this is really helpful in my own journey of reconstruction! Bless you
What a fantastic breakdown. Truly engaging. I have studied the likes of George MacDonald and others that share this similar sentiment. I think you have something here. And I am happy to share it as well, as a scholar of religious epistemology.
What a professional presentation.
Great dialectics, good lung power.
Acting skills & "masterful oratory".
All invested in the Truth of Christ.
~Steven of Montreal
This isn't about the "Truth of Christ." This is heresy. "professional presentation.
Great dialectics, good lung power.
Acting skills & "masterful oratory"
What has ANY of this to do with biblical truth...not Steven's or Mel's version of self-truth?
ua-cam.com/video/pdhfth3CozM/v-deo.html
@@Spartanthermopylae u have a blind spot.
@@Spartanthermopylae
Are you talking about the modern day translation Bibles, or the actual original language Scriptures? Even Alan Hess can prove it with a freaking KJV. You still have your head up your azz, eh?
@@Spartanthermopylae
Spartan 300: This isn't about the "Truth of Christ."
Q: To which part of the video do you pit this assertion?
Q: Do you object to folks groping for The Truth; for if we are blind, then where is your compassion?
Q: Isn't it strangely absolutist to say that it's not even "about" the "Truth of Christ", because if you find fault with any specifics, then how can you even know what you yourself is talking "about."
Spartan 300: This is heresy.
Q: When you say, "this", to what are you reffering? Can you specify?
Spartan 300: "professional presentation. Great dialectics, good lung power. Acting skills & "masterful oratory"
A: You conviently left out: "All invested in the Truth of Christ," which followed directly after your partial quote. Besides, I just happened to notice the clarity and orderly manner in which he conveyed the information -- "All invested in..."
Spartan 300: What has ANY of this to do with biblical truth
Q: Short answer: Nothing, if you deliberately censor "All invested in the Truth of Christ".
Q: Are you insinuating that I would assume that the Speaker in the video is speaking truth on the basis of Oratory Skill?
Q: And if it just so happens, that Truth is spoken with clarity and orderliness; would it be so out of order for anybody to commend these qualites?
Spartan 300: ...not Steven's or Mel's version of self-truth?
Q: Am I to understand that the entire video represents what a couple of people believe?
Q: Or, that Christian Universalism is based on what just a couple of people believe?
Q: Or, are you just being "catty" -- LOL... (?)
Great job articulating the universalistic position was of Paul. I’m not sure if you believe this... I kept waiting for a “but.” :) I’m convinced that this is an acceptable position to hold as a Christ follower. Anyway, I’m looking forward to the next lecture. Thank you.
Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open if you are dead, you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday!
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2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
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Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
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Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
@@OperationReapSinners777 What value does obedience out of fear have? If you stress judgment as God's means for destroying people who will serve God out of love instead out of fear? Where there is love there is no fear.
People are judged according to their deeds may also mean that they will have to realize what impact their deeds had and by this understanding bring them back on the right way. This makes much more sense for me.
If I out of love already today act in accordance with God's laws, I need not fear judgment. If I don't then discipline for what I did is necessary.
What is missing in your arguments is a logical explaination for the "universalist" texts. How do they fit into your believe system without saying that the Bible is contradicting itself. Just take 1 Tim 4,10 that God is the saviour of all especially those who believe?
If he does not save all, how can he rightly be called the saviour of all men? The context does not provide any means for reducing the "all" to some. And even if, the text still says that unbelievers are saved. How do you explain that?
It will one day be as in the story of the lost son when the "faithful" brother asks his father after the return of the prodigal son why he receives him back and provides the best for him. This reveals the disposition of this brother's heart. He does not love therefore his "judgment" is the welcoming of his prodigal brother. There is judgment for all, in different ways.
Greetings of brotherly love,
Thomas
@@Thomas_Zscheile you say "What value does obedience out of fear have?" --- by this you infer that we can obey God while fearing God and that if one fears God they cannot possibly be one that also loves God. This is a false dichotomy. One is able to love God and fear God at the same time. The Bible teaches the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The Bible teaches that if you love Him you will keep His commandments. The apostles did fear the Lord and said: Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Also, the Bible teaches some save by compassion, making a distinction, and some save by fear pulling them from the flames. So then, warning people of the coming wrath is Biblical and fearing entering into that wrath was taught consistently in the Bible. Paul says explicitly do not be arrogant but be afraid, for you stand by faith and if you do not remain in His goodness you too shall be cut off! We are commanded explicitly to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. You are plainly opposing all these scriptures about the fear of God. Obedience by fear and by love combined is best. Obedience toward God has great reward and one should always fear the Lord. He is holy and He is just and He is able to reward but also well able to mete out His righteous wrath if you do not submit to Him.
You say "who will serve God out of love instead out of fear?" --- again, you prove ignorant of scripture for plainly you assume that anyone who fears God cannot and must not also love God. Nothing can be further from the truth. The two are married. You are divorcing them. We are to both fear and love God perfectly and these two things are harmonious.
You say where there is love there is no fear. Your understanding of this notion is flawed. You are referencing this verse: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." --- this verse is not teaching that we should not fear the Lord as you wrongly suppose. What it is teaching is that when you are walking in perfect obedience and serving the Lord wholeheartedly, you are not presently afraid that God is going to punish you because you are in rightstanding and walking in His favor and goodness and He is revealing Himself to you and showing you His love for you. However, even while in that place of perfect love, you still fear what will happen if you fall away, have your faith shipwrecked, return to your vomit, are cut off for not bearing fruit, build up what you have torn down, etc. Therefore, knowing the goodness and severity of God, you work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You don't get cocky. It says if you think you stand take heed lest ye fall. So there is that concern even when you are standing strong that you could fall if you don't continue to stay focused and serious about walking the narrow path. And you do know that God is more than willing to unleash his wrath on you if you willfully sin after having come to a knowledge of the truth.
You say "People are judged according to their deeds may also mean that they will have to realize what impact their deeds had and by this understanding bring them back on the right way" --- I agree that this is one for sure way they are judged - particularly in the Lake of Fire judgement, however, it is not the only way. For example someone can get STDs for fornicating. That is a reaping of what you have sewn and being judged according to your deeds. Also the severity of the judgement of the age to come is greater for some than others depending on what they were given and to those whom much is given much is required.
Thank you! Best regards from Sout-West of Germany! Here you are alone when you believe and talk about the neverending love of God, the father of our LORD Jesus.
Wie ich auch. Grüsse aus Donaueschingen!
Liebe Grüsse nach Donaueschingen aus GD (Schwäbisch Gmünd) @@blue_blue-1
Absolutely awesome....now subscribing to F&R.....so much for me to learn, thank you.😊
Eccentric presentation, but well-argued and engaging.
This is fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!
This and everything around this is making me giddy as a kid in a 59 year old body, i could never quite reconcile God losing the majority of the human race, His creation to either death or eternal torment, how is that, love winning exactly?
May Father YAHweh bless your understanding and show you His Resurrected Son YAHwehShua. Praise Father YAHweh.
Yahweh is not the Father. Find the N.O.G. Bible (Names of God) and check out the switches between God, LORD and Yahweh. Yahweh is angry, murderous, a plunderer, etc. this is not the God the Father that Jesus describes in the NT. Does God change? No....He is the same yesterday, today and forever ❤
God bless you!
Christ undid Adam for all, period. Glory to God Almighty!
YES!!!!!!!! PRAISE GOD
@@kristimuller7980 Aaaamen!!!
What verse is that?
Great job explaining (within context) how the universal scope of “all” is determined by context. “All” in these verses cited actually means “all”. There is no way around it. You have to do some amazing scriptural gymnastics to do away with the parallelism that is so clearly communicated by Paul!
Yes it's hard to argue against the "all"
Unless you believe in eternal torment no matter what ! Unfortunately some still do .
@@salv1able I don't think many infernalists have been presented the arguments in this video. This is powerful and ground breaking stuff.
So what is he saying? That ALL will be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven? Like EVERY SINGLE PERSON believer or not?
@@chadpugh443 you ask "So what is he saying? That ALL will be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven?" ---yes, but most do not enter until after fiery judgement in the afterlife for a long time and only then, after their punishment and after their surrender and submission and repentance and faith in Christ, only then, are they all ultimately saved in the fullness of time.
You ask "Like EVERY SINGLE PERSON " --- yes, every single being, fallen angels and the devil as well will all repent and be saved in time
You ask "believer or not?" --- no, we are not saying while unbelieving people are saved. This is the type of strawman argument that gives us a bad name. Nobody can come while in rebellion. We are merely claiming God will end the rebellion in every heart and every heart will belond to Him eventually in the life to come. Only a FEW hearts ever belong to Him in this life like the Bible teaches. But His love never gives up on the rest and they all eventually come around. All flesh shall see the salvation of the Lord.
@@chadpugh443 Yes, that is exactly what he is saying and what Paul said as well.
You're right on 2 Thes 2. It's about an apostate within Judaism defiling the Temple, helping to provoke Rome into attacking and delivering the eschatological judgement.
I'm only 7 minutes in but I love you sense of humor. 😁
Absolutely loved this, where can I find the teaching on original sin mentioned as being taught the previous month?
An absolutely incredible display of all of these key points that make even the most Fundamentalist Christians at least consider and question their current views on hell. I'm not a Universalist now too, AMEN! Need to get that book.
There are a number of good books that I have read and own concerning this subject ( some written over 100 years ago) . One that I recommend as a first book to read is a relatively recent book titled 'Heaven's Doors' by George Sarris ( or check him out on utube and also a guy called Robin Parry) .
The only position we can know to be false is the Eternal Conscious Torment position(as normally stated).
We know that God is ontologically Agape, and that Agape always seeks the welfare of the other. Therefore we know that God's intention must always be salvation for all(albeit this doesnt necessarily conclude to universalism).
So one proposing ECT MUST either deny that God is ONTOLOGICALLY agape, reject the definition provided, or show how suffering forever could be seen as well-being .
Say Brother, right around the 1:40 mark you refer to the “infinite” love of God twice w/in a minute of each other. Considering the referencing of Mr. Talbot as the text it might have been more apropos to have referred to the “inescapable” love of God, don’t you think? Or perhaps the infinite inescapable love of God! Wow now there’s a wallop. You certainly deserve a “do over” if you want w/ such a fine presentation. Very well done. Really appreciated the small intimate gathering for the setting as well. A very courteous captivated audience.
I had a dream of a seed, a plant sprouted out of that seed and then was “reversed back in”, back to the original seed, I’m not saying it was from God but I had a strong feeling it was upon waking up. And this was before I even know such a thing as universalism. Existed.. maybe now I know where God was leading me.
When his majesty visited Julian of Norwich,he held out his hand and opened it to reveal a mixture of seeds.
He then said to her;
"This is all that there is" .
The seed is symbolic of so much of our Kings character.
I would say that dream was a blessing to be sure.
Love.
sounds to me like someone losing their faith which starts as a seed and grows into a plant. If that reverses because they don't persevere, the faith could return to the state of being just a seed again, no longer growing. We have to endure and remain in the faith and keep working out our faith with fear and trembling.
Jesus saves all sinners, he even saves wannabe christians, Praise God!!
No Jesus does not save all sinners.
Only those that repent and turn to Him.
Repent and be saved......
@@kathyheavner3585 I agree. But did the Apostle Paul believe and repent in Jesus? Or did Jesus knock him off his horse , and then blind him ? As he was off to kill sinners?
@@salv1able He knocks us all off of our high horse, doesn't He?
How else would we know that we need Him ?
@@salv1ablehe repented of course. God changed his mind.
For those of you quoting judgement and atonement scriptures, keep in mind that for the Christian universalist that salvation for all is only available because of the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Also, they do believe in hell and the lake of fire. It’s just that the fire is remedial and purgatorial and not eternal since the Greek word means for an age. So there is a final judgment and a Book of Life and all believers will go straight to heaven but the rest will be cast into the lake of fire for a period of time according to the light received and rejected and gravity of sins. Eventually though all will be saved. As the Church Father Origen states: “nothing is impossible for the Omnipotent; no being is incurable for the One who created it.” This was the predominant view of the church until around the 5th century and even Augustine admits this.
Universal Reconciliation, many may be surprised to find this out, but it was the prevailing doctrine of the early church, they say for at least the first five centuries, I recommend with love you look first, But it is not a false doctrine, and God is good to all and His compassion rests on all He has made the Bible says, I recommend doing more research, especially into the first languages of the Bible before they were translated into latin, Koine Greek is the first language of the New Testament, and forever separation from God is not in there, it's in part due to a false translation of the word "Aionon" which does not mean forever with punishment, it also is used for Age, and those of us who have seen know that in Psalm 139:8 it says " If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." but this is just the beginning there is much more, like 1 Timothy 4:10 which in it it sys He is the savior of "all men, especially of believers" so not only but especially, and this will help you see, we need salvation from judgment, and also at times deliverance from earthly death, but if we go off the scriptures God Himself said He will save all in that verse I just showed, so now about the especially part, this means those worthy in Christ don't have to go through judgement they pass from death straight into life, because they have been born again already, we died in our baptism with Jesus, but now everyone else must be born again, they will die, then die again to themselves, a "second death" do you now see? and it shows them on the outside of the kingdom in the last pages of Revelation, after the lake of fire, remember this "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is Love"
(The Total Victory Of Christ) Channel on UA-cam has the answers.
Great video, but I feel that 'Universalism' should not be confused with 'Christian Universalism'.
They hold 2 completely different meanings.
To Charles Hodge’s point about all not including Jesus, Jesus died also. Kind of a big part of the plan actually.
Romans 5:18-21 flat out supports universalism and it concludes with the more sin there is, the more grace there is to cover it.
Many people confuse "kingdom of heaven" with the afterlife.
It's both in the afterlife and here on earth if you do the will of God.
Others point to Revelations, but that doesn't tell you anything plainly, it's in code.
It's a prophecy.
And even if you took it at face value it doesn't talk about everyone, it's talking about those who are alive.
And they overlook "Death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire."
Well done.
Jesus truly is the Savior of the World!
- John 4:42, 1 John 4:14, 1 Tim 4:9-11
He won't fail His mission!
John 1:29, 3:17, 12:47, Isa 55:11
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
- Romans 5:18-19
Gal 6:7 God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
YOU CAN LAUGH NOW BUT YOU WILL SURELY CRY LATER!
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Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy....
@Corey Friend No doubt whatsoever!
@@OperationReapSinners777 yes lets sow to the spirit...so that we view death as the start of life in the spirit and not view death as the end. It's a matter of perspective. All were forgiven because of the cross of Christ. Not all know this obviously. But when we do know; there is a change in the way we view life and death in the Lord. Jesus is more than just a potential Savior. He is indeed the "Savior of the world" as the Bible describes. I know you believe in anihilation which is a view of a failed Christ. Jesus was completely successful on the cross. The entire world was forgiven; especially including all of Israel.
"The Pearl of Great Price is the world.
*The entire floor swept and coins found was the all of Israel and the world
*The entire lump leavened is the world.
*The entire floor purged is the world.
@@OperationReapSinners777 God is going to work it all together for our good. Sometimes a person has to die literally before they realize God. Death doesn't stop God. God always wins. It is a good thing that this life isn't the only method in which God affects us. You should know this.
@@noahwaters5341 God rained down fire and brimstone on the two cities called Sodom and Gomorrah! Jesus said history will repeat! SINNERS TAKE HEED GIVE YOUR LIFE TO JESUS OUR SOON COMING KING!!!
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Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
THE REMAINS OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH FOUND!!!
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ua-cam.com/video/yN9CndSbxpo/v-deo.html
This teacher is awesome! What is his name?
Robert friterer
In the end of World there is redumption reconciliation and restoration,that God May be all in all
Yes it has to have a happy ending mankind reunited under God.
Rom. 8 Verses 38 to 39
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Great! Also made vids on this too
where can i listen to more of this guy?
dunno.who is he ?..hes great !
As a Christian who has not grew in a church nor with practicing Christians. This is obvious to me as I am not brain washed with dogma. Just read the Bible ✅ God does NOT lie ✅ and He does NOT speak to fill space. The good news is everyone is saved some where some how and your other option will be being deleted. No one will remember sin.
This was an excellent presentation of apokatastasis universalism. I disagreed with some of the irresistable grace and salvation has nothing to do with our accepting it or our free will coming into play whatsoever and we do nothing it just is thrust upon us. That type of teaching I disagree with - I believe it is synergistic - God works in us to will and to do His good pleasure but we also by our own free choice accept the free gift and draw near to God willingly. But outside of that, you presented so many powerful arguments for universalism I shudder to think what I would do to put up a fight with this if I were not already a universalist. Just a powerful and thorough job as a primer. But it does keep going much deeper and much broader. This was just a powerful first battle thrust with many more waves upon waves of arguments and thrusts that can be made to break down and completely destroy infernalism and annihilationism which must happen ASAP or at least would be nice, very nice and very helpful in so many ways for so many.
Great presentation !
ua-cam.com/video/pdhfth3CozM/v-deo.html
Sadly, it's a false teaching and was rejected by the early church as a heresy.
@@Spartanthermopylae The majority of the early church overwhelmingly believed in the ultimate restoration and salvation of God's creatures for most of the of the first 5 centuries immediately after Christ .
Yes the Cross of Christ was sufficient for the sins of the world; no secondary measures needed.The Lake of Fire is symbolic for God.
Where do you get that?
@@richardbuse228 the lake of fire is in Heaven as seen of John in Heaven and the lake of fire judges. Also death destroyed by God.. but in Revelation is said that death is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
@@richardbuse228 instead if just saying "that" can you be more specific?
@@noahwaters5341 Where do you get that the Lake of Fire is symbolic for God?
@@richardbuse228
The lake of fire is in Heaven as it is seen of John in Heaven and the lake of fire judges ("have their part").
Also "death" is destroyed by God.. but in Revelation is said that death is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
I really enjoyed this in my opinion he presented interesting information. I would like to heard more of his teachings but I can't find his name . What is his name ?
Blessings to All,
The Malahat? As in Victoria? Im trying to find a church in b.c. that believes in Universal reconciliation, id love that get plugged into one but not that easy to find.
I teach universal salvation over on my channel. You're right, it does start with Paul. And in fact, Paul warns about "CERTAIN MEN CAME FROM JAMES"... those works guys are awful.
What chapter and verse does Paul give this warning pleases ?
@@TheHumbuckerboy He's referring to Galatians 2:12. But he's interpreting it to mean that James taught them to live under the old Law, which doesn't really make sense. Paul is either just noting a fact, that these individuals resisted James' teachings in Jerusalem, or he's accusing James of not properly communicating the death of the old covenant. The least-reasonable interpretation of this verse is that James was intentionally teaching Jews salvation under the old covenant, which makes no sense, especially considering what James said in Acts 15:19.
The Riley Zone there are several verses that state that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and Jesus said that man shall not live but by every word of God, so it is definitely implied that in order to be completely reconciled back with God, one must be reconciled back with his word.
Why can't you see I believe the words of Jesus, and the clear message from his disciples! 😢 Please believe Jesus, I plead for you. The ending of this chapter is so serious 🙏
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
V
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Can someone explain Romans 8:21? Does it have something to do with universal reconciliation or is it about something else? Who is the creature referred in this verse?
It is more than universal reconciliation. It is all of creation. It is the undoing of what happened in the fall in Genesis 3:17:
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life."
What Paul is talking about in Romans 8:21 is what is talked about at the end of John's Revelation: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” (Revelation 21:3-and following)
Is this the only video of Universal Restoration Rob has?
Very well done brother. However, the greatest idol, “free will”, must go at some point. He’s not waiting on us to “come around” and finally conform our will. Yahweh alone does that, forcefully, like He did with Paul. He doesn’t ask our permission, ever, in any case. He just does His work in us, and that’s that. We are not His boss, He does not need our consent nor permission to save us. He just does it, reconciling all creation back to Himself through Yeshua His Son. Now that’s the Good News. :). HalleluYah. Amen.
Absolutely , free will is a Myth . Ask Pharoh , the 12 disciples and Paul .etc etc
God's Will , will be done wether we like it or not .
@@Charlie-xp9lq If that's true, then God is evil, and he's making me type this calling him evil. That just doesn't sit right with me. I think God gave creatures freedom to choose between good and evil. But we are no more able to defeat God's plans than I am able to defeat Magnus Carlsen in chess.
@@GreenWeasel11 In our day to day lives we make all sorts of choices , some good some bad .
The Father doesn't sweat the little things that don't effect his Will . But he has Total control if we try and step outside of his Will .
He will pull the rug out quick smart .
And after reading this best you get straight back to getting better at chess .
I’ve only just come across this possibility and I must say it’s very intriguing. I looked for scripture that teaches free will and found nothing that was convincing. It’s a bit of a shocker currently, but is so very interesting an idea!
@@lc2077 Read Romans 9 : 10 to 24
4. God has already saved all in Christ. We just need to look beyond ego to see it. hell and heaven are realities here and now, depending on whether you identify with ego or that-which-you-really-are.
Careful that reasoning is a slippery slope and definitely dosnt account for deep inquality in this life, some innocent in "hell" / some guilty living in "heavenly" situations.
In 1 Timothy 4:10 it says “we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” Remember God isn’t just loving He is love, search the total victory of Christ Channel on UA-cam, the word Aionon means age, not eternal when talking about punishment it says “Age” in the original and literal translation, nor does it say forever and ever, the Bible was written in Koine Greek, and universal reconciliation is the truth, remember when the Israelites threw their babies into the fire of Baal?, God said it didn’t even come to His mind, and demons tricked them, and satan is deceiving the nations right now, but Jesus says to fear not we are worth more than many sparrows, ❤️ “Love never fails” and the fire is not literal either, God speaks of the slavery in Egypt of the Israelites as an “Iron smelting furnace” He says He finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and He would never torture anyone forever in fire, the kingdom the Christian’s inherit and rule over the nations on the outside, then after it’s done talking about the lake of fire, it says the others are on the “outside” in the last pages of revelation, the word in Koine Greek is “exo”, and it’s used 63 times in the New Testament but never once for death, if you want to, you can help spread this, but either way you are loved by God, and nothing can change that, we are to repent and come out from the worldly ways that are evil, to be set apart because the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and there will be rewards and punishments, but it’s not eternal, God’s justice is always rooted in His nature of love and goodness, and His punishments have the goal of restoration in mind, Jesus says in the unmerciful servant you won’t get out “until” you have paid the last penny, every single being, wicked and righteous will rise from the dead, and those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens and the realm of the dead “hades” does not have literal fire that we are tormented in, God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all the Bible says.
This was great! I gave very few disagreements
ua-cam.com/video/pdhfth3CozM/v-deo.html
Jerry Walls is NOT a universalist. Remove him from the list.
There so so many verses in the Bible that disprove the idea of Universalism. You can introduce any human thoughts into the verses
of the Bible and say look, the Bible teaches universalism. It's a result of human intellectualism and human sensitivities.
The Bible is full of verses that refute universalism and below are just a couple of them.
"holiness without which we will not see the Lord" (Heb 12:14)
"Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her that he might sanctify her" (Ephe.5:26)
Yes, when I was still a child, my parents were equally clear to me that, if I do not eat all my broccoli' all my teeth are going to fall out!
And it worked really well - today I looove broccoli!
And how does that disapprove? I don't get it.
How do either of these passages refute Christian Universalism?
The Bible says "And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment" Hebrews 9:27.
Note the words "each person....... once and after that".
Now back to the verses I quoted, we are made holy here on earth, while living, by the washing by the precious blood of Jesus.
The church exists as the bride of Christ only until the bridegroom returns for His marriage.After that there will be no church. Christ sanctifies His church now,and definitely not after His marriage. So the idea that those who are not part of His church now, despite repeated invitation, will get another chance is unbiblical and a heresy. Simply, the chance to be made holy and to be sanctified (to see the Lord) is now.Numerous other verses prove that.
Universalism assumes that God will give others a second chance and that's totally unscriptural
Aji D Hebrews 9:27 does indeed say live once and then face judgment. But it doesn’t say that judgment is the end. They don’t get a “second chance” you’re right. It is the time for judgment which implies a sentencing and a punishment to be carried out. Just because they face judgment, a sentencing and punishment doesn’t mean they’re eternally doomed. Once the punishment is up and the debt been paid they are released. There are two types of punishment: retributive and restorative. One seeks revenge for a pain dealt to the offended, the other seeks the rehabilitation and reconciliation of the offender. Which sounds more in character for the God who is LOVE? Look at Revelation 14:11 “and the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever (to the age of ages)”
Firstly forever and ever doesn’t exist in the Bible. The Greek word is Aion meaning age. Forever and ever is redundant and incorrect. Secondly that word torment in Greek is basanos meaning to test for purity. Like in proverbs 17:3 “A crucible for silver and a furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the heart.” Its a metallurgical image. The lake of fire is a crucible to burn Sin(impure metals like iron and lead) from the us(Gold). When you use a touchstone to test (basanos) gold the impure metals will smoke. That is the punishment: the medicine that burns. It were better for us to have a millstone tied to our necks and drown than to end up there(Luke17:2) but it isn’t eternal. At some point all the sin will be burnt out.
Yup!
What is the name of this presenter/lecturer?
Dr Rob Fitterer
Since it says that God will add the plagues written in his book to anyone who adds to what he has written, and take your name out of the book of life if you take away from his book, I think i would be VERY VERY careful with this little undertaking here. It sounds really good what you are saying, but there are reasons why people are not too quick to jump on board with you.
I would do my research on the book of revelation if I were you.
Most of the book is quite different from Old Testament passages. I wouldn’t trust it 100%
This speaker is in grave danger of Hell fire! It’s okay to keep his belief to himself but to publicly encourage others to believe that in the end, everyone will make it to Heaven is horrific.
@@brianbachinger6357 If I believe in eternal torment or annihilation, at least I can be saved through the Lord Jesus Christ. If I believe in universalism, I don’t need Jesus and I’ll end up in Hell if universalism turned out to be false.
You spend alot of time trying to get the audience to be open minded. Why work so hard when it should be easy to get people to agree to a view that allows non believing loved ones to be with them in heaven. Universalism is the only stance for those Christian's who are truly loving.
When people have been utterly brainwashed to believe in ECT, it is not an easy process to break that down in someone’s mind. Especially because it becomes incased in utter fear for many.
"You spend alot of time trying to get the audience to be open minded. Why work so hard when it should be easy to get people to agree to a view that allows non believing loved ones to be with them in heaven." Because it's not biblical!
"open minded" is this a euphemism for brain-washing...as in leaving your brains at the front door, Simon?
@@Spartanthermopylae wrong..its veey Biblical
In 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 The New American standard version added the word away to make it fit church doctrine.
...i really enjoyed this talk. there was, however, one small error i'd like to address: your reference to Robin Parry. his last name isn't Perry, which is how you presented it; it's Parry. i only mention this because his teaching has meant so much to me, and some of your listeners may try unsuccessfully to find him, if his last name is misspelled. ...and, i'm a grammar nazi. sorry.
And ... he wrote the book titled 'The Evangelical Universalist' under the name of Gregory MacDonald. I had to laugh when James White sought to refute Christian Universalism and he was citing Robin's book but White wasn't even aware that Robin Parry was the real name of it's author. Funnier still was that White obviously hadn't got a clue as to who the 'Gregory' or the 'MacDonald' were or their significance !
who is the guy doing the presentation?
What do you do with Romans 10: 9 - 10 ? Also there is "Behold the goodness and severity of god. On those that fell , severity, but on thee goodness. If you continue in his goodness. Otherwise you shall also be cut off." Romans 11 :22. What do we do with that one?
This doesn't answer your question, but one could just as easily quote Romans 11:32, "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all", and ask what we do with that.
exactly what does 'cut off; mean ?.doesnt say lost forever
@@TheBlueCreamits temporary
Keep reading. The whole point is they will be ingrafted again. So ALL Israel will be saved.
Bought the book and audio book the first two chapters definitely do not answer What About or What about, I really hope this gets better, with more scripture evidence because the first two chapters are based off feelings or believing how God should be.... Ugh.... (UPDATE IT does get much better in chapter 4, I hope the rest of the book is good as chapter 4).
A book that I recommend is Heavens Doors by George Sarris 😃 I am currently reading an excellent book titled The Triumph of Mercy by George Hurd
@@TheHumbuckerboy thanks for recommendation...
@@Pgfracing You're very welcome. BTW the first author's surname is actually spelt ' Sarris' ( I shall go back and edit my original comment which the computer misspelt ). George Hurd also has written an excellent book dealing with Christian Universalism compared with Calvinism and Arminianism titled 'The Universal Solution'.
2 Corinthians 11 : 3 " But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness your thoughts may be corrupted from the simplicity and purity which look to Christ."
John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978 -
“Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and
therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore the whole of humanity, is
redeemed, saved, ennobled to the extent of participating in ‘divine life’
by means of Grace.”
John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 4), Dec. 7, 1990 -
“The Redemption event brings salvation to all, ‘for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery.’”
What about this?:
◄ Matthew 25 ►41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
No universalist touching that one?
I’m not sure the audience were that open to his ideas
Who is this presenter? Where is this filmed? Thanks.
I just asked the same question and then found that he is called Dr Rob Fitterer
While I love Talbott's book, many proponents of this view trip over God's Holy Standard (His law). He will "salt every man with fire". We either judge ourselves now, or will face the lake of fire.
www.theplace.ca/copy-of-about-us
Who is this talk by?
Dr Rob Fitterer
Who is this preacher ?
not even that think about this look at a child compared to yourself in terms of knowledge u obviously know way more than a child even if there not yours as an adult it’s your responsibility to protect children so if you see someone else’s child about to run into the street being an intellectual superior to that child your suppose to stop them by any means necessary even if that means grabbing them and pulling them away from the road against there will and no judge in there right mind would tell you that you were wrong to violate the child’s free will in that way and God is infinitely more just than any human judge yes the Bible says we can’t understand his ways but that’s because his ways are so great not because they are so different he gave us a sense of right and wrong a moral compass he didn’t ask us to completely abandon that moral compass in order to be saved and my moral compass tells me eternal suffering is wrong even for the person that supposedly wants it
I've thought very similar about this too but almost everyone I know seems to almost "cheer for it" so idk but really feel frustrated and confused since there's so many denominations and beliefs etc and almost every pastor, teacher, etc has a bit different variation on their interpretation of Scripture and I'm definitely no scholar so I have a hard enough time interpreting some of the basics...
1. Let Paul be Paul. 2. This is an entire letter to the Romans and chapter 5 must be taken in the context of the 16 chapters as well as in the sense of Chapter 5. 3. Jesus is the one who is giving the salvation and righteousness. What does he say? In the Sermon on the Mount He says the way is narrow to life and the way is broad leading to destruction. 4. If you want a more meaningful parallel, see Matthew 25, where the greek word for eternal is applied in the same verse to sheep and goats. The sheep to eternal life and the goats to eternal destruction.
We all wish unversalism could be true when we think of our loved ones, but the one who must be valued above our loved ones and our own life is the God who is free to express His character and endure with much patience vessels prepared for destruction. He is God of wrath, judgment, holiness, mercy and love. Not just love. The Bible does not say "love, love, love," but it does say of the Lord, "Holy, holy, holy."
Is this Rob Bell?
no
This guys voice sounds just like Megamind!
1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Heb 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!
Heb 12:10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.
Heb 12:11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Heb 12:12Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.
Heb 12:13"Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.
Heb 12:14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Now read the conclusion of your message, let Jesus speak. Let God be true and every man a liar.
V
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jhn 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jhn 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Who is this speaker please? He is very good. God bless 💜🙏
Rob Fitterer? I am not sure
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, YE SPINNES; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Psa 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye SAINTS OF HIS, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.
Psa 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,Jde 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
A false teacher Jesus warned us about!
@@OperationReapSinners777 hey, I’m the past I can find the way that people who believe in ECT very irritating and I can find it difficult to maintain the fruit of self control. Recently, I’ve wanted to really work on this. I’m wondering what people who believe the bible teaches ECT think we are being ultimately saved from? Do they believe ultimately it is being punished in eternal hell?
@@lc2077 I can assure you that there will be no eternal torment, but only the second death. There is no coming back from the second death, because there is no third resurrection mentioned in all of scripture. There only will be two resurrections, at the coming of the Lord.
V
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Act 24:15 And I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Act 24:16So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
at 1 hour 36 minutes you quote II THESS ... here it is in the CONCORDANT LITERAL NEW TESTAMENT:
9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength --
John 14:6
New King James Version
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Doesn’t universalism provide another way other than Christ to come to the father? By eventually raising everyone up to the kingdom once their sins are burned away? Wouldn’t that technically be a third resurrection? Since the lake of fire is considered the second death?
I'm from no doctrine only reading my Bible and I am 💯 sure Judas has repented therefore saved ✅
Ps it's in the gospel of Matthew, he repented and killed himself
Change translations until you find repented or go to young literal translation
He wasn't saved because he despaired. It's not the same thing as repentance. But will be saved despite this.
God has given all things unto Christ, as the moral Ruler of the world. “Ask of me, and I will give you the heathen for your inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.” Psalms 2:8 “The Father loves the Son, and has given ALL things into his hand.” (John 3:35) “All things,” here, means all intelligent beings, so say the best commentators. (The word "things" is in italics in the KJV which means it is not in the Greek. We are not talking about trees here.) God gave all beings to Christ that he might save them. “You have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.” (John 17:2) This plainly tells us that it was God’s design, in giving Christ dominion over all flesh, that they should all enjoy eternal life. It is certain that Christ will save all that the Father has given him. “All that the Father gives me, shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will in nowise cast out.” (John 6:37) These three propositions are irrefutable evidence of the final happiness of all men. 1st that God has given all things to Christ. 2nd that all that God has given him shall come to him; and 3rd that him that comes Christ will in no-wise cast out. ..... All are given; all shall come; and none shall be cast out. What is the unavoidable conclusion? ---
It is THE WILL of God that all men shall be saved. “Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.” KJV (1 Tim. 2:4) By “all men”, in this passage, it is undoubtedly to be understood all the human race. Salvation comes through the belief of the truth. God wills that all men should come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved thereby.
God inspires the hearts of the good to pray for the salvation of all men, and say, as Jesus said, “Thy will be done.” Matt. @. Adam Clarke says, “Because he wills the salvation of all men, therefore he wills that all men should be prayed for; as in 1 Tim. 2:1. “I exhort, therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men.” Would God inspire the hearts of his saints to pray for the salvation of all mankind, if he knew they would not all be saved? Jesus came to do the will of God. “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” John 4:34 “Lo, I come to do they will, O God.” Heb. 10:9 The will of God is, that all men be saved. Thank God!
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, YE SPINNES; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Psa 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye SAINTS OF HIS, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.
Psa 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,Jde 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
A . You can admit someone is "Lord" without loving them. Just ask any power that surrendered to a rival power in war. They really really wish the other power was NOT their Lord.
B. If Hitler had conquered the world, his propagandists would have said "he saved the world, especially those who are loyal Nazis" . Looooootta other folks would have experienced Nazi World from behind barbed wire in a pair of striped pajamas though.
C. If 10 billion people cease to exist except for like 32 people who love Jesus, that's every knee and every tongue *that exists* .
D. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them". "Fear not, little flock, it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom." Quality over quantity.
E. Preterism is the correct eschatological hermeneutic. So all of Christ's enemies, including death, were conquered 1900+ years ago. Almost no one is an actual Christian believer and it would only be 1/8 of humanity if you counted every nominal Christian as a real one. Whatever Christ's victory means, it obviously doesn't mean everyone becomes a Christian.
You can get the book for one credit on audible
All Israel being saved…ok. Why can’t that mean spiritual Israel meaning all those who choose. Why can’t people choose not to be grafted in?