I almost had a mental breakdown bc of years and years of obsessively thinking about the horror of billions of souls in eternal torment. I felt like I was living in a nightmare I could never escape from. I am still recovering from the constant psychological torment I was under even though I no longer believe in eternal conscious torment.
@@JasonGabler Actually you are totally wrong. I was raised a fundamentalist and told it was evil to even consider their views. Their views made more sense to me when I was a fundamentalist. I just took time to find the courage to change my beliefs. Fundamentalist spend a lot of time threatening people with hell but I eventually left
If Christ is the lens through which we are to understand all of Scripture, and Christ himself speaks of hell as eternal and full of misery (for the moment, ignoring Bell's and others textual gymnastics), then we must figure out how hell is a part of God's compassion and mercy. This attempt to diminish or entirely do away with hell as a horrible, eternal thing just might be a way that we diminish or entirely do away with something very important about Jesus which we have not yet been faithful enough to grasp. (That's really all I want to say, but some addition thoughts are...) I realize that universalism and its variations are nothing new, but the dominant understanding has always or at least long been that hell is full of misery and it is eternal. That a view is declared orthodox by majority in council doesn't automatically make it God's view (at least not for Protestants), but I do believe it means we cannot brush aside so many centuries of wisdom, as I put it before, with very tenuous conclusions from fancy textual gymnastics -- even if those conclusions resonate with my understanding of justice and mercy. This especially rings true for me when we are wrestling with the spoken words of Jesus. I do realize that for many centuries the Church was happy to wish destruction on non-believers. Fortunately, God has raised up powerful voices inside and outside the Church to show us that we have really missed the boat when it comes to loving the World outside the church. Thank God the Church has become far more compassionate in the last couple of centuries. While there remains a long way to go, I think we have to be careful that we're not brushing aside hard fought tradition(al understanding of Scripture) simply because we want to appease the world's understanding of love. We've heard it a million times, God is odd. He will not line up with the world. Right, Aslan is not a tame line, etc. and so on. Well, this is true, not only when it's cheeky, but when it's very hard to swallow. I don't think any of us have yet discovered the reality of hell and what God is doing with it.
@@JasonGabler Well, to be honest, the lens through which we should view scripture (in my opinion) is through that of our best modern scholarship/science, honest open inquiry, open mindedness, prayerfullness, and the presumption that God is mercyful in a real meaningful sense. Viewed from this lens the bible and Jesus cannot be understood in the traditional sense. However, viewed from a traditional lens the existance of an eternal hell seems very much to be the case when you read an English translation of the bible. However, the original Greek is a lot more ambiguous - their word for eternal can and mean "for a long time". Yet, I'm not saying that the bible does not talk of an eternal hell but it is definitely much more ambiguous on the matter than traditional prechers threaten. So from a traditional point lens I think we have to say that an eternal hell might exist but it's not completely clear. From the other lens I mentioned it is impossible to believe in an eternal hell.
This guy is just brilliant. His message needs to become as widely available as possible, particularly in Christian churches. If Jesus told us to love our enemies, then why would God hate his enemies and consign them to eternal hell? The logic of eternal hell breaks down right there and cannot be reconciled with infinite love.
Possibly because God respects our free will to choose ourself not God. The gates of hell are locked from the inside and people are free to choose it, that's how God loves us
@@lutherkayban2788 Perhaps God respects our free will to choose "life" vs "death", not Life in bliss vs life in misery.... It doesn't work that God says "I love you, I love you so much and I want nothing more than to be in relationship with you for all eternity, however, the choice is yours, you can either choose to be in that relationship with me in heavenly bliss OR I can have you tormented for all eternity, but the choice is yours, just remember I love you". This is such a twisted view of God and Scripture
@@lutherkayban2788 God respects our free will but torments us against our free will. ?? Mkay.....eternal hell is inconsistent with the gates locked from inside..
God is the creator of all that is. Everything in existence or has been created. The only thing that is not of God is the unexistent. Even if you are in torment in hell or in blissful harmony in heaven, all experiences and realities can only thought of and be desired because it first came from God. Even to deny this comment is only possible bc it was first thought of from God. Nothing in creation, whether of rebellion and hate or love and trust it’s thw creator are only possible to be desires and chosen bc they were first thought of by God. Anything within the confines of existence can only exist bc they were original possibilities first available from the mind of God itself. To say otherwise is to say we created something out of nothingness. Even if you chose evil and God didn’t, to be able to do evil and exist means God first created it because you cannot create something original that exists yourself bc you can’t create anything out of nothing. Even if you are tormented in hell and rejecting God. If you feel it, think it and believe it, all of that is only possible bc God first thought of it for it to be able to be a choice or spiritual disposition that cake from yourself. Anything that exists or is created can only be so bc God thought of it first as a possibility. Any new thoughts of good or evil can only be thought of bc it was already created as a possibility hidden within the fabric of existence. All is of God, even rejecting God and being miserable can only be so because it was a possible outcome first thought of by God. Also God seems to be freed and without the confines and restrictions created by being influenced and seduced with going back and forth between good and evil. Also if god created free will to choose or be seduced with the pleasures of evil in the name of free will then that choice to do evil has actually led to enslavment of our minds, bodies, emotions and souls. Although we may have chosen it. That choice only comes from suffering, envy, lusts, pride stubbornness, weakness, pleasure seeking and so forth. Essentially, it’s from seeking the easy way out, the way that feels right. So obviously to rid all those desires, free will is ironically granted. So the free will argument actually contradicts itself. Look at God. He created evil, because the only thing that God did not create is that which does not exist. Even rebellion was a created choice. Yet if that’s out of free will and looking at the miserable and suffering state of mankind bc of choosing evil, we have lost our free will. To eliminate the choice of evil everyone could freely create without being bounded by the hippocracies and enslavment of one another in the name of free will. Essentially this is my argument. God cannot be tempted by evil or do evil so he can’t even make the choice to do evil bc it’s not his nature. Is GOD therefore a slave and us humans free? We can make a free will choice that takes away our free will but he cannot freely be tempted or have the desire to do evil and is pretty free in my opinion. The justification of our free will makes us slaves yet his lack of free will to be tempted or have a heart of evil makes him free. See the irony and contradiction. By eliminating this choice and desire GOD creates not only free will but also equality and fairness. God makes us just like him. If God truly created fairness and equality then man nor Satan or Lucifer could have any other desire than to have he willpower that which is of love. If GOd made us in his image then self righteousness and evil could not even be a possible temptation or develop in our hearts. By removing this so called “free will” god makes us just like him. Unless you want to argue that God is a space and has no free will? But keep in mind, although man may have made poor choices to indulge in evil, to even make a choice is only possible bc it was a created variable within the fabric of existence. So why create it if only creation can be tempted by it when the one that created it cannot be tempted by it. Anything within the programming of creation can allow those with consciousness to even decide upon good or evil. If it’s not in Gods programming why was it put in our programming?
It’s not only the only way to make sense of salvation, it’s the only way to make sense of God. It’s so ironic that hyper-Calvinists see themselves as the best defenders of God’s sovereignty, but in fact cannot even allow themselves to entertain the notion of an ACTUALLY sovereign God who SUCCEEDS in reconciling all of being and thus demonstrating God’s sovereignty as All in All.
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 I offer another view of that passage that is often quoted in the manner at hand: Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, often taken as doctrine. Even if there "was" a great chasm, it says nothing about its permanence. Shortly after this tale was told, Christ in fact did cross the chasm and preached to the dead! :) Indeed, the dead arose and were seen and heard by all.
@@awolarn8016 Question: How about the texts in the Bible that speak about hell? They seem to speak of it as a place of eternal damnation. It also seems that if everyone eventually goes to Heaven, then it makes no sense to send people to hell. Also, what, then, is hell? In addition, what about folks who genuinely don’t want to be with God or who just don’t want to do right? Good can’t force them to love him. What about them? I find universal salvation interesting and, frankly, appealing. However it just doesn’t seem to be scriptural. I look forward to your or anyone else’s response. All the best to you.
On the last question of suicide, it’s disappointing that no one realized two things: 1) if a person truly believed that love, connection, and eternal life were the destination of all things, wouldn’t this inspire hope and/or the realization that, whether in this plane of conscious reality or the next, what we want and are designed for us to be in loving relationships with each other? 2) how in the world should we think that a person’s suicidal ideation is a suffering solved by rational or logical processes? Give the person a hug, LISTEN to this person’s sorrows, mourn with those who mourn, seek professional therapy and psychological understanding and entheogenic healings that can resolve the traumas, depression, and anxieties that plague humanity. When people are hopeless on any level, what they are most often lacking is empathy and understanding from others and empathy and understanding from within and for themselves. HAVE / PURSUE / EXTEND MERCY and COMPASSION. Co-suffer with someone who feels alone. This is how we solve existential feelings of isolation-this and the psychological deepening of awareness and hope.
Be careful recommending psychedelics. Me and a bunch of friends took mushrooms a while ago. We are all changed permanently. Some change is good, but some negatives have definitely presented as well. But I agree with the part about sharing empathy and co-suffering with those who need it!
I often cry out of pure joy because of the message of Reconciliation of all things... why not start today ❤️🕊️ and make a difference? I you have a spare minute, pray for a stranger, and unknown person or an unmet need somewhere in there world, then trust that God has met the need... 🙏📕❤️
I am absolutely certain ALL people will be saved. He who knows and hears from the Holy Spirit knows when the Spirit speaks to him. I know the Holy Spirit told me that ALL will be saved. When the Holy Spirit speaks to us, there's no way to deny what He tells us. I know most of you have not received such revelation, but it's not I who speaks, but the truth revealed within me by the power of the Holy Spirit, and my Father knows my heart. 🙌🙌♥️♥️ There's no need for logic, reasoning, and carnal understanding when the Spirit speaks to us. If the Holy Spirit told me to tell my sister she would murder me in 7 months, and that this would eventually bring her to know Yahweh intimately, then I would surely speak this out loud even if the whole world told me I was crazy.
The weird thing is I just replied to a comment on a Chris Date video, and that commenter was arguing the exact opposite of what you said, in favour of ECT and that the Holy Spirit made it clear to him. I will stick to what the actual word of God says first and foremost. One person claims this and another person claims that and backs it up because "Holy Spirit said so". When the only way to know for sure is the sword of the Spirit, the word of God.
@@1234567mrbob Is ignorance bliss? What are the "dont's" getting that the "get's" aren't in order for God to be just and fair or does being just and fair invoke necessity of the next age or ages for God's fairness to rule instead of making guest appearances and if so does God's current unfairness qualify him for sin , of course not as sin and evil are not the same thing or there wouldn't be separate titles for them, maybe the so many people is the most important part of your statement which is what DBH was just on about so I'm sure tolerance must be a part of a hearty Amen. I still can't find that word hell in the original scripture. Don't think for one moment I'm saying God is currently unfair, i waas just phrasing a question and I could go on , but thank God and don't forget me, i won't lol I can see why David said he can't outline the entirety of the argument in an hour and half
Take heart! None will be lost! Salvation is the work of God and He will not fail to save all. Like the story of the lost sheep, the good shepherd searches “until he finds” the lost. God did not create man to depend on self effort or works of any kind to be saved. So, relax and let the love of God encourage you. His justice is perfectly merciful and His mercy is perfectly just.
I think the free will argument for hell is perfectly coherent as an explanation why hell exists. The only problem is to jump to the conclusion that this means one is stuck in that state. Nothing stands still, nothing is stuck. Even a door locked from the inside will be eaten away by moth and rust. And I also agree that this hellish door, is precisely made out of a participation in the divine Logos, and it must come undone because of that. This is why "the end is nigh", always, and when that last door gives in, there will be judgement, but there is no avoiding it.
Really appreciate that someone took the time to film this. Can we please take an additional 5 minutes and pan both mics (the on camera mic and the lav on his tie) to center, so the image is more focused and less distracting?
Really appreciate the time and effort of all the people involved to make this free 90minute video available to me in my comfort called home. But I digress it is not good enough you must spend 5 more minutes editing the audio so I’m not distracted. Your type is insufferable. Fake gratitude to make yourself feel worthy of your self entitlement.
Does anyone know what book of his he is referring to? It sounds like he has written a book on Universalism and the problem of conscious eternal torment, but I have searched Amazon and google and have come up empty. Does he have a working title? I would love to read it!
Here is the link to the Yale page: yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300246223/all-shall-be-saved You can also pre-order it on Amazon as well as other places I assume.
I think it is hope that wins. We don't live in a deterministic world. Being in a hellish state is always possible. So it's potentially true that someone remain in that state. But it is hope that will finally penetrate any darkness and get the final person to let go and enjoy the party. The party he is already in, hell is not a place but just how some people perceive the fact that they shall be in eternity with everyone else. Most people will find that difficult, but hope will make them grow in that. And it's the hope of the faithful that finally will reach all corners of every person.
Book on the theme available for pre-order (release Nov ) www.amazon.co.uk/That-All-Shall-Saved-Universal/dp/0300246226/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2C5RJZS41J0JQ&keywords=david+bentley+hart+that+all+shall+be+saved&qid=1567430787&s=gateway&sprefix=david+bentley+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-1
you mean you didn't memorize it lol? If you leave out the big words he just said Love God because he first loved us and you may as well love your neighbor, and if I'm not mistaken we can't do it without God, wish he would hurry up aye I hate myself in comparison to him hahaha
So true, I was reading tens of people bash a girl because she had to be vaccinated in order to work, so She wouldn’t weigh on her parents by moving back home. How is this bearing the image of Christ? Unbelievable (of course they are certain it is the mark of the beast).
DB Hart is an esteemed scholar. I have much respect for him. He needs to argue for Universalism using the Scriptures. He did not do this at all, in this talk. Consider, Romans 10:9-10, and 13 (Part of the Romans Road way of explaining the gospel, the kerygma. "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved ... For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (NLT) The explicit implication in these passages is that there are the saved and the unsaved. The qualifier between the two being the individual's choice to live by faith in Jesus. Whatever one "feels" about Universalism is fine, but to me it must square up with Scripture and the Armenian view of the Gospel.
Saved from what? The coming judgement. Are you gonna be on your own or seek legal representation? I have my advocate in Jesus Christ, and he's the best one money CAN'T buy! ❤️🕊️🙏🌅✝️🐑😊
Scripture is the source of most division, fighting and confusion. God is not calling us with a 20th century, English language bible verse. He calls us by spirit. Spiritual understand is the pinnacle of life with Father God and it is free.
Have you ever considered the Apostle Paul never actually followed Jesus? He got all his revelations from visions apparently. So did Joseph Smith. Maybe that’s why there is so much confusion among people trying to decipher what he wrote. Just a thought experiment but judge Christianity through the same lens that you would judge Mormonism with and see what you come up with.
I'd never heard of Mr. Hart before this weekend's Gospel of Relentless Love Conference. Though some seem to find his candor and conviction a bit off-putting, I rather enjoyed this, especially his response to the "hopeful universalists." It has always bothered me when those who have written books and present lecture after lecture on the subject distance themselves from the label of "universalist" or "universalism" in that way. It's almost always seemed more self-serving than honest. I will not only have to buy his book but look for books on the theology of Gregory of Nyssa. Though I knew he held this position, along with other early church Patriarchs, I've never read any of their works and I am quite intrigued by the mention of his understanding of the creation accounts. Almost no one I have ever talked to has even noticed the differences/distinctions between the two accounts, so neither can they explain the reason/s behind them. It sounds like Gregory of Nyssa might have come to, at least, some of the same conclusion about those differences that I have. It will be interesting to see what he had to say on that topic and others. Thanks for providing this.
@@matrixlone I will check out your channel when I get a chance. I had heard that the book was good, but am hesitant to buy any more books on the subject. I have so many already and, for the most part, they all present a view of judgment that I disagree with. I've given up on finding one that shares the same view I hold on judgment.
@@ChrissielaI was wondering if your view of judgement was men learning righteousness Isaiah 26:9 and therefore to be desired as King David prayed "judge me O Lord"
Universal Reconciliation, many may be surprised to find this out, but it was the prevailing doctrine of the early church, they say for at least the first five centuries, I recommend with love you look first, But it is not a false doctrine, and God is good to all and His compassion rests on all He has made the Bible says, I recommend doing more research, especially into the first languages of the Bible before they were translated into latin, Koine Greek is the first language of the New Testament, and forever separation from God is not in there, it's in part due to a false translation of the word "Aionon" which does not mean forever with punishment, it also is used for Age, and those of us who have seen know that in Psalm 139:8 it says " If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." but this is just the beginning there is much more, like 1 Timothy 4:10 which in it it sys He is the savior of "all men, especially of believers" so not only but especially, and this will help you see, we need salvation from judgment, and also at times deliverance from earthly death, but if we go off the scriptures God Himself said He will save all in that verse I just showed, so now about the especially part, this means those worthy in Christ don't have to go through judgement they pass from death straight into life, because they have been born again already, we died in our baptism with Jesus, but now everyone else must be born again, they will die, then die again to themselves, a "second death" do you now see? and it shows them on the outside of the kingdom in the last pages of Revelation, after the lake of fire, remember this "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is Love" (The Total Victory Of Christ) Channel on UA-cam has the answers. And I also make videos on this.
To take issue with something that was raised in the lecture in passing around at the 27th minute. I am not sure why he portrays the stark Calvinistic viewpoint regarding eternal punishment being voiced in the mouth of a 17th century Scottish Highlander. The Scottish Highlands at that period were a bastion of Catholicism. It is the lowlands of Scotland were Calvinism was entrenched. Presumably he references the highlands because they seem in the backwaters, and the harsh landscape mirrors the bleak views he is painting the Calvinists as holding. But note that one contributing factor of the Jacobite rebellions in the Highlands was their Catholicism, against the lowland Protestantism. It is, therefore, not just factually wrong, but does greatly injustice in attributing views to a section of society that would have violently opposed it.
"Presumably he references the highlands because they seem in the backwaters." I believe you're being too uncharitable. A more likely case is that David simply confused the two.
Apocalyptic Plastic Poetry An extract from the Hymn on Paradise by Bernard of Cluny: "The world is very evil; The times are waxing late; Be sober and keep vigil, The Judge is at the gate: The Judge that comes in mercy, The Judge that comes with might, To terminate the evil, And diadem the right." This poem could apply to the Apostolic times of Saint James (the judge is at the door 5:9) and the end of that Age. Unfortunately, it has been taken up by every generation since and the focus has been one of petty Apocalyptic schemes that has created a riot of thoughts concerning the approaching end of our world. Since St. James' time of the ends (plural) of the age ie; the back end of the OT and front end of the NT, we've had a long list of failed and disappointing prognostications about the end time destruction of our world. Should we not learn to take a more positive stance on the developments in the world around us? And perhaps be inspired by the idea that God as Creator and Redeemer is working out His Kingdom purpose in gathering into a unity all its varied strands through Jesus Christ our Lord. In a moment of teachableness ,if we could, I would postulate two things: 1 The Kingdom of God was inaugurated by the coming of Jesus and the end of the OT religious system and its economy 2 The Spirit of truth has been poured out and is still active in outworking all truth. To see all the outworkings we should take a look at the developments of the various disciplines of revealed truth in our world. For instance, the progress from A to Z in Anthropology, Biology, Cosmology, Dermatology, Engineering, Floriculture, Gastroenterology, Hydroponics, Ichthyology, Jurisprudence, Kalololgy, Liquids, Mathematics, Neurology, Obstetrics, Pomology, Qanonology, Radiology, Sphygmology, Theology, Uni Blastology (study of having fun ha), Veterinarianolgy, Wordsmithing, Xbox, Yoga, and last but not least Zen Buddhism just to name a few. Even now (2023) we are on the cusp of developing outer/lower space. How wonderful the potential of that could be! But it needs churchmen to influence it away from evil. The list goes on and on but it does allow ,if we will, a greater and more practical view of our world as we find it today. It is the amazing fact that all this development and progress has taken place in the midst of suffering, disease, famine and war ect. But once you realize the similarity to what happened at Calvary (Power through weakness, ultimate triumph over evil in the midst of suffering) you might want to consider an enlarged view of the Gospel of His Kingdom and its developments in this our "world without end". The true church and its real disciples are always struggling to adjust to the activity of its neighbors in the world and take a stand in relation to them. If we have eyes to see and ears to hear we would come to understand that this is the pattern we have inherited from our forefathers in the faith. And that "the faith bequeath to us is as metal tempered in the fire and just because the fire heats up again it does not mean that the metal melts away". It is in the midst of troublesome times like our present situation that the church and its disciples have come to understand their greater purpose and ,in so doing, find great victories and triumphs in the betterment of our world. Thereby giving glory to God through our Savior Jesus Christ. Isn't this a better approach than all the sowing of discord, bickering and lashing out that goes on in the name of defending the faith. COME ON MAN! As far as I can see, the Mantel of "Defender of the Faith" is now lying in the gutter waiting to be taken up. Who will pick it up depends on being commissioned with the capacity of a titanic personage in service to the operation of divine Wisdom. A prickly vocation I'm sure.
The argument I've heard is that the "unforgiveable sin" is essentially the ability/willingness to accept forgiveness. In the words of the theologian Paul Tillich, it's "accepting acceptance". The necessary precondition to being forgiven is opening oneself up to receive that forgiveness. This is the only way I can make sense of the aforementioned sin without it becoming essentially arbitrary.
Or unforgivable simply means not something simply remitted, such a sin will entail punishment. But that doesn’t entail unsatisfiable punishment, eternal.
John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978 - “Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore the whole of humanity, is redeemed, saved, ennobled to the extent of participating in ‘divine life’ by means of Grace.” John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 4), Dec. 7, 1990 - “The Redemption event brings salvation to all, ‘for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery
Ephesians 6 - 10 - 20 is essential reading. You enemy make no mistake is satan as he is mine. It is dangerous in the extreme to seek to frustrate him, only Jesus can put him in his place.
If divine impassibility were true, I don't think God would bother desiring us in relationship at all. It only makes sense if you believe in a deistic God that stands at a distance and isn't personal.
Divine impassability simply means that God's nature cannot be changed by contingent circumstances. Your latent criticism would only make sense if it were leveled against the god of Plato or Aristotle, who is a blank mysterious logical necessity. The nature of the trinitarian god is presumably one of eternal relationship and self giving love.
@@23Hiya "The god of Plato or Aristotle" is precisely the god of classical theism, and is the source of divine impassibility, because this doctrine is completely absent from Scripture and contradicted by every statement of God's responding to contingent circumstances, for which classical theists invent unjustified explanations of anthropomorphism. Since we're so concerned with "simplicity" perhaps the "simple" answer should do: God is not impassible.
@@ChipKempston the reason that so much of Christianity synthesized the notion of impassability is because if the descriptions of God being made angry or sad as a result of sin or evil are taken completely literally then God, as the necessary ground of all that is, would have His being defined in part by sin and evil making them necessary also. This is also not in the Bible and is in my opinion more destructive to the biblical narrative than the notion that we should have to understand the human descriptions of God's emotional life as something less than literal.
The recording was too muffled in the Q&A but as far as the main lecture goes, despite my being open to the idea and logic of universalism, I cannot possibly be convinced as not one single verse of Scripture was mentioned to support this view. It's not enough that some ancient church leader held this view as they too are human. I need to be convinced from Scripture.
Gregory of Nyssa the Church Father argues based on scripture ... so the secondary exposition by Hart is therefore also based on scripture, in conclusion... 😊🙏❤️
Romans: AS in Adam all dies, SO in Christ ALL will be made alive. Phillipians 2:10-12 together with 1st Corinth.12:3 "... and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." God works all things according to his will. Ephesians 1:11, 1st Timothy 2:4!!!, Ephesians 1:10!!! All means ALL. Ultimate salvation of ALL is consistent with the character of God and His Word. Everything else: judgment, wrath,death - ALL passing and temporary.
You do realize scripture is interpretive. That sometimes we need context and original translation to derive the correct meaning. And of course the spirit to reveal the truth. Please tell me you didn’t ignore the entire moral and ethical dilemma of eternal punishment because he didn’t reference enough scripture 🙄
So you hope you're "unconditionally elected" or your free-will decision is adequate to satisfy God? I would trust neither, only his Justice and Mercy... 🐑🌅❤️✝️🕊️
There are quotes from Augustine, Basil, and Tertulian that there were “many” Christian universalists in their day. DR Ilaria Ramelli has shown that the consensus early on was patristic universalism. The non-Greek speaking Augustine changed that as well as the emperor Justinian.
The question then turns on the relevance of the finite world prior to death. Does it REALLY and ultimately matter? If choices made after death by the soon (relatively of course) to be redeemed from the hell fire leads that soul to salvation by his post death illumination of who God really is, doesn’t that trivialize the innocent suffering of the world? Wouldn’t the innocent then just be instruments of the cosmic salvation of all? Is this question any more “unfair” than Ivan’s question to Alyosha in the Brother’s Karamazov on whether he could accept that all would be happy if it meant the torture of one innocent child? How is this different?
D. B. Hart has already discussed Ivan's objection in his book 'The Doors of the Sea". The problem is different from that of eternal hell. Here is how Hart explained this difference recently: "It is a good mereological rule that to try to understand the whole in terms of its parts and to try to understand the parts in light of the whole are two very different operations of reason (induction and deduction, to be precise). It is one thing to attempt to judge the relative goodness or badness of a discrete evil in relation to some final purposes we cannot see, but another thing altogether to judge the goodness or badness of a supposedly total narrative that pretends to describe the whole rationality of all its discrete events. The former judgment can never be more than conjectural; the latter is a matter of logic. There may logically be such a thing as an evil that is redeemed in the greater good toward which it leads; there is no such thing as an unredeemed evil that does not reduce any good end toward which it might lead to a mere relative value. In the former case, it is logically possible that evil may be non-necessary in the ultimate sense, but a real possibility in a provisional sense-though even then only as a privation that will ultimately be effaced from the "total picture." We may, at least, stipulate as much for the nonce, and assume that the possibility of transient evils is part of the progressive process whereby free spiritual beings are called into existence out of nothingness. But the final state of creation, as a finished totality, will not be redeemed in some yet more ultimate end; in its sheer permanence and finality, it must be accounted as itself the end for the sake of which all the conditional evils and imperfections leading to it were provisionally and temporarily tolerated. So my question remains: does the story Christians habitually tell about God oblige us to believe that he directly intends evil as evil, even if only as a possibility, as a permanent part of his final design for creation. And the reason for asking this is obvious: if God can will any evil as a final unreconciled evil, then he is not the transcendent Good, but only a finite agent possessed of an only relative moral status. And my argument is as simple as it is undeniable: even if God wills a final evil only as a possibility within creation’s design, he has already positively willed it as an intrinsic feature of that pattern, and it is this that touches on who God is".
Not convincing and does nothing to address the the problem of making the finite world irrelevant and unnecessarily cruel if our actions and faith prior to death don't shape ultimate salvation.
@@josephcandito It's a shame that you're not convinced because the argument is perfectly valid. Our evil actions and lack of faith can jeopardize our proximate salvation in the age to come, after the historical judgement, but not our ultimate, eternal salvation: no one, by himself, can deserve eternal punishment any more than eternal reward, eternity lies beyond the capacities of any finite being. The present world is not a place specifically designed to be an ordeal through which we must decide our eternal destiny. It's a world where finite, transient evils can happen because it's a transient state of a progressive process of creation. "We are well aware that the whole creation, until this time, has been groaning in labour pains" (Rm 8,22).
@@homoviator5553" The present world is not a place specifically designed to be an ordeal through which we must decide our eternal destiny." Where do you find this in Scripture? There are too many verses that say the opposite.
In addition, by making the finite world irrelevant in the eternal destiny, it makes your argument and belief irrelevant. If ones fate is determined by the rejection of God in this world and that rejection is sealed at death, believing otherwise can have eternal consequences. Yet if Hart is correct, then believing so won’t matter. So in the shadow of Pascal’s wager, why take the risk of believing otherwise. In other words, why would you think it is unfortunate that I don’t accept the argument? If it is true (soundness does not save), I will meet you at the same place even if it is a little later.
When i read the words of Jesus nowhere do i get the idea that Gods relationship to man is some intelectual, philosophical obstacle course that if you get it wrong its all over. Yet here we are pulling little bits of text from various places in the bible to bolster an argument much like a lawyer would do. What did Jesus say to the rich man that asked about salvation. Be a good Jew, take care of the poor and follow me. Of course Christians dont believe the first, dont practice the second and follow whatever creed the sunday schoolteacher has them memorize. Come to God like children, like the.birds, like the flowers that ive simple lives . Why did Jesus speak in parables? He could have quoted from the bible, could have clarified what it ment but instead he told stories so that we could think for ourselves about how to live, to love each ither to forgive each other to be thankful for each other. A child could understand. What, if anything of value comes out of this sermon that a child could understand? Is it easier to love God who demands only a few hours on Sunday than our fellow man that might have financial problems, be adicted to some bad behavior, might be sick, smell bad, be disagreeable. Better to love Jesus that image of the handsome, kind man in white, there in perfect light above us. Why did Jesus spend the effort telling us to care for the sick, the poor., Those in prison when all he wanted us to do was to love him.
I dont have to be a hopeful universalist. Why are eternal hell believers not hopeful of everyone burning in hell? They teach it like it's a fact when its not...
I just wanted to comment here, that I think David might be a trite bit hard on those who prefer to more cautiously utilize the term ‘Hopeful Universalist’, as opposed to just declaring Universal Salvation an absolute and logically bound salvific conclusion. Actually I do not disagree with anything he has put forward here and I would not ever attempt to even do so - That would be tantamount to trying to out ‘Free Solo’ Alex Honnold up El Capitan or challenging Michael Phelps to a 100 meter swimming contest. However, those who preface their belief with “Hopeful” are not necessarily suggesting, implying or inferring in anyway whatsoever, that God has not been clear and concise and or is lackadaisical in achieving His meta-plan. So much violence has been perpetrated insidiously in the name of this issue, that one should be bold in condemning the aesthetics of Double Predestination but not mimic its proponents’ rigid zeal. ‘Humility’ is the key factor here where any eschatological programme put forward by anyone at any time in history will inevitably result in a certain amount of blind spots and or holes in the Swiss cheese of its theology if you will. Having an absolute “Cock-sure” certitude brings to the table a confrontational arrogance that [leans on our own understanding] and may in some contexts, come across worse than the staunch inflexible Calvanistic Infernalists and or the Dawkinist ideologues that it so aptly challenges. We simply don’t have the full picture and should remain open, organic and flexible in our presuppositions.
Hey bro I hear what you’re saying. And how you’re saying it. And I dig it! I respect your heart and where you’re coming from At the same time. We cannot be flexible about what God has made clear. That Gods heart and dreams and efforts are for the reconciliation of all things. This we must believe in and work for. As we embrace the spirits work in our inner man we can become more. More beautiful and wise to treat others like the children of God that they are. This helping fulfill Gods plan. To have in mind any other end than “God setting things right” is a false vision
There's ALWAYS some inconsiderate person LOUDLY COUGHING over the speaker's points. I'm sorry you're not feeling well, but after the second cough you should leave the building.
@@piquant7103 Yep. I'm not sure what position you're actually taking, whether you're being sarcastic etc. Do you frequently cough loudly and repeatedly during lectures?
If you take a look at John 14:6 New King James Version 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Doesn’t universalism provide another way other than Christ to come to the father?
He always bags on the Gnostics not realizing how Gnostic his own belief system is. If universalism is true it would have to entail reincarnation/pergatory/ toll houses. Otherwise what’s the need for the gospel at all? I’m about 95% Gnostic and believe the gospel of John is a proto-Gnostic text and that’s why it doesn’t fit in with the other Gospels.
@@robertwarner-ev7wp I agree that universalism ultimately contradicts the need for a gospel. But could you explain what you mean by being 95% gnostic? Thanks for your response
One could say that much of Christianity does not make sense. I'm thinking of questions such as (1) Why substitutionary atonement for sins? (2) Why for my sins, and sin that I inherited from Adam? (3) Why would God kill his son? (4) Why did Jesus have to go to hell? (5) What was the purpose of that? What did he do there? To me, the story of Jesus' death and resurrection seems so medieval to me. I think if one were to create a religion today, the foundational stories would be much different. A modern creation would be along the lines of Unitarian Universalism. But who cares about what I think, or the questions I might ask. To be Christian, one must believe the tenants of the faith. These are summed up nicely in the Nicene Creed. For most of it, it does not follow a clear or scientific rational. You simply must believe it. In participating you do experience God, in the Christian sense. It can be beautiful and life changing. Plus you can enjoy the fellowship of like minded believers. Who wants to go solo in a religion of your own making?
Read Hart's book That All Shall be Saved. He covers almost every question you asked and most of those questions are based on false representations of Christianity
This is my first exposure to him. First impression: dude just loves to quote flowery poetic language that furthers a passionate bias. If he interacts with primary canonical texts that challenge his idea, I will be more than willing to listen.
I suspect that he avoids such interaction because he knows anyone not receptive to his broader message won't be persuaded anyway. It's more that he's describing a vision of reality than defending some ultimately arbitrary philosophical stance. Maybe you're the one exception, but I'm tempted to conclude that if you're not receptive to what he says here, then you won't listen to anything else he says about how to interpret the Bible.
He says at the outset that this lecture is only representing one of the 6 chapters of his book on Universalism, and that this chapter is the one which deals with the question in the most affectual, personal and pathetic way, and is the least logical and scripture focused.
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write. " (3:17). Yep, because when I write I always remind people that it's me writing. More to the point, the writer is making this point to separate out the worthy from the unworthy-who's working for God and who's just pretending to work--who is just "looking busy" as opposed to who is "actually" busy. Isn't the writer referring to the Jews who professed Christ, but did not do the "work of the kingdom"? In other words, this verse is calling out Jews who are not "really" believers and not the world in general.
Timothy 4 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things. I maybe wrong but this is my hope.. May God bless you
THE FUTURE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH! GIVE GOD PRAISE! V Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
You missed the bit in 1 Timothy 4... "10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things!" This "heretical" teaching is a commandment BY THE APOSTLE to TEACH in the churches... Other translations have "suffer reproach". If I have to suffer reproach believing this teaching, if a have to be a "heretic" and be separated, I stand with Paul... 🐑✝️🌅😇🕊️🙏😊❤️👍
BELIEVE JESUS WHEN HE SPEAKS! Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD. Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Hey dumbo, have you ever noticed that everyone is entering , I'll repeat that for the twits at the back of the class, everyone is ENTERING , some by the narrow gate and most through the broad road to destruction Matt 7 :13,14. Guess who the ones entering in through destruction are , yes its you you moron because you don't really believe in Jesus , you just think you do but what you say about him makes him a liar and a failure. What, what how do I do that, I can hear you now you twit. Jesus came to save everyone ya know sinners like you, and his Father the Almighty God of love sent him because "God wills all men to be saved" 1Timothy 2:4, right, get that into your thick head. SO, Jesus is God John 1;1 and God is love 1John 4:8, so that means Jesus is love, right dumbo you prize twit hahaha,and guess what LOVE NEVER FAILS 1Corinthians 13:8 but according to numb nuts like you Jesus failed because he didn't save everyone and Daddy will have to fire up the barbeque and toast all those Jesus failed to save even though he is Almighty God and wants to save everyone he just cant because of that lying failure of a Son of his ooh and oops now you have to call the Father a liar too because he says repeatedly that he can and will do whatever he wills , you nutter Isaiah 46:10 , Daniel 4:35 Ephesians1:11. What a nasty little sod you are wanting to burn people forever in the name of God's righteousness and justice no wonder he will say to you I never knew you depart from me. If you don't know love you don"t know God and love never fails you blaspheming unbeliever. Oh that's right you'll be too dumb to know how Jesus can tell you to get lost and you'll still be saved, or actually your probably to dumb to even think of it, but anyway there's two resurrections and that's all I'm going to tell you because your a really merciless, nasty, barbarian brute with a heart as hard as stone, sending people to eternal punishment you horrible little sod, repent now before you find yourself gnashing your teeth and weeping
@@nevbillett7554 2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you ( NEV BILLETT )who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION. UNIVERSALISM IS THE BIGGEST LIE MANUFACTURED BY THE DEVIL! JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING! SINNERS SEEK THE LORD! JESUS SAID BEHOLD I STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART! V 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
@@OperationReapSinners777 Lot of scriptures you got there dumbo but I will just deal with your gates that you first threatened with Everyone is entering in to life,( it says life there's no mention of hell, eternal torment or anything like that in the text, all that is in your stupid head) , a few enter by the narrow gate and most by the broad road to destruction but both roads enter into life Matthew 7:13,14 It starts off saying ENTER IN and advises to do it through the narrow gate because it goes strait to life like the strait gate but the other wide gate leads to life through destruction (you will have to be purged in the lake of fire (God) because you chose the broad road, you wouldn't accept the love of God , you never knew him, you said he wanted to punish people forever , you said his blood was only for you because (somehow in your nutty mind) you managed to merit unmerited favor hahaha ( most fruit cake christians think their personal faith merits the unmerited favor or grace our loving savior saves everyone by ) you are a complete and utter lunatic that would have God carry out your absurd atrocities because you think you deserve undeserved kindness for some crap that you think or have done, hello is anyone home you lunatic hahaha. According to loopies like you other people got a problem with their sins that they just can't solve unless they believe in Jesus just like little goody two shoes you but Jesus saves them by his grace through his faith , not your faith you nut and this is what saving grace does to sin : " Grace super exceeds sin wherever sin is " so there's no sin problem that Jesus's grace hasn't got covered despite nasty little morons like you wanting people to be punished forever
@@nevbillett7554 Gal 6:7 ( NEV BILLETT ) God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. YOU CAN LAUGH NOW BUT YOU WILL SURELY CRY LATER! V Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy....
@@OperationReapSinners777 I'm not mocking God you moron, I'm mocking your stupid belief and your stance against the will of God who wills all men to be saved 1Timothy 2:4 (there it is in black and white for nasty little hell senders to read) and here's three verses that tell you nutters straight out that He is going to do what he wants and you little sods who want to stop him saving everyone may as well push shit uphill all your life Isaiah 46:10 Daniel 4:35 Ephesians 1:11. There you have it God wants to save everyone and he is going to do whatever he wants BUT you morons love pushing shit so on and on you go hahaha
His eliptical way of speaking, his tendency to interrupt his own sentences with parenthetical remarks and oral footnotes, makes him rather difficult and tedious to follow. He is a learned man and an elegant prose stylist, but not really a very good lecturer.
He is a scholars scholar talking to audiences educated in theology, philosophy and metaphysics but i reckon he could dumb it down to talk to me if he wanted but it hasn't done me any harm to google a few words and replay it a few times
Yeah old son, you got preachers telling gizillions of pew warmers every Sunday how to merit unmerited favor (grace) and giz 10% of your wages for being so stupid
By this reasoning, all children who are aborted would burn in hell forever due to the decision of their mother. My mother lost her child at 8 months spontaneously, it was awful for her, it was awful for me because of her state afterwards and the poor child had no say in it. Completely absurd, if this is our god then we need to be very fearful of him and not in a reverent way but in the way one is scared of a sadistic master, but since we see the works of Christ we know that this is not at all his nature, aside from the very proof within creation, where love remains the strongest and most powerful force of bringing life forward. God is a God of the living, not of the dead, he wants us to live, not to die. I also work with some special needs children, one of them is in terrible condition, he is not a repentant Christian like none of us were at 7 or 8 years old, his mind is now declining, aside from his body, bound to a wheelchair and fed through a tube, I don’t know if his parents are Christians, Muslims or atheists, but this child deserves nothing less than Jesus taking him in to his arms one his life is over… a difficult, horrible, short life I would not wish on the worst of men… he will be with Father Jesus, in spite of his inability to make the choice to believe or convert. I am sure of it.
@@gwilliams1001 do u know what a sprecial needs child is ? I have some special needs kids who are incapable of forming a coherent thought, some muslim and some other faiths - absolute angels, its coherent to think they wouldnt burn in etetnal hell
@@gwilliams1001 sorry I misread, the thing lights me up a bit, cant imagine any of those kids getting anything but rest and peace, i agree with u, sorry again!
Hart does an injustice to Balthasar's position. but of course, hopeful universalism makes sense. his dismissive statements obviously are an evasive way of NOT dealing with the position. Balthasar's position is one based on faith, not on knowing. Balthasar is simply saying: we do not know, but we believe, and hope... i would have asked Hart: so you know you will be saved??? no fear and trembling for his own salvation? no wonder he is so dismissive, the arrogance of those who think they are already saved. in this sense, he is the Calvinist one!!!
Hart's answer is simply logical. Here's what he writes in his book: "anyone who hopes for the universal reconciliation of creatures with God must already believe that this would be the best possible ending to the Christian narrative; and such a person has then no excuse for imagining that God could bring any but the best possible ending to pass without thereby being in some sense a failed creator". I guess Hart would also argue that he knows he will be saved because Holy Scripture says so (1 Co. 15; 28 in particular).
@@homoviator5553 indeed, it is simply logical. i just don't see how his position diverges that much from Balthasar's position which he dismisses as if this has no logic of its own. their positions are not all that different, when you come down to it. it is just that Balthasar actually is the more careful thinker here, and more measured in his language, while Hart is the more effusive and exaggerated. a strange thing because in other areas Hart precisely accuses Balthasar of being flamboyant in his language!!! in any case, it seems Hart is mindful of the massive reputation of Balthasar and wants to size him down in order to bolster his own. he called his own "The Beauty of the Infinite" as a minor dogmatics beholden to Balthasar!!!
@@tonydecastro6340 Hart differs from Balthasar mainly in his interpretation of Scripture. Balthasar sees a "dialectical oscillation between two kind of absolute [eschatological] statements, both indissoluble in themselves and each seemingly irreconcilable with the other", that forbids "by piety, by doctrine, by prudence" to decide between them. Hence a hope with no certainty. For Hart (following Origen and Gregory of Nyssa), "the two sides of the New testament's eschatological language represent, not two antithetical possibilities tantalizingly or menacingly dangled before us … but rather two different moments within a seamless narrative, two distinct eschatological horizons, one enclosed within the other". Hence the certainty.
@@homoviator5553 i would say Balthasar makes better sense of Scripture then than Hart. Balthasar does make use of Orgen and Gregory as well. But to characterize Balthasar's position as "dialectical oscillation" is wrong. Balthasar, no less than Hart, privileges those scriptural passages that precisely give rise to hope for universal salvation. Again, the issue seems to be between KNOWING WITH CERTAINTY, which certainly IS NOT HOPE. Hart puts too much stock in the human capacity to KNOW ESCHATOLOGICAL REALITIES with CERTAINTY. It seems to me Balthasar is much more careful then about what it is we can ASSERT, but he does not shy from saying the it is COMMANDED that we hope for the salvation of all.
@@tonydecastro6340 your last sentence is precisely the position that Hart rightly criticizes as incoherent (go back to my first comment and the quote). And the certainty about universal salvation doesn't come only from human reasoning or speculation about the last ends, but also from scriptural revelation (1 Co. 15; 28 for example, is a prophesied event, and should be no less certain for a christian than the second coming of Christ). In this regard, and contrary to Balthasar, Hart doesn't have to "privilege" certain scriptural passages, because in his interpretation all makes sense. Hart's position seems daring only because since the 5th century the "infernalist" view has prevailed in Christendom.
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw I need only point out that the eternity of hell is in the Creed (Quicumque) and there have been multiple pronouncements affirming it
Timothy 4 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things. I maybe wrong but this is my hope. May God bless you
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw do you really believe that it's possible that the normative teaching of the Church for the past 1500 years has somehow been wrong and only now a small minority of people like Hart are discovering what the Church "truly" believes? That what every Saint and the entire body of the Church has understood to be the truth this entire time is actually wrong because it wasn't defined precisely enough in the Sixth Council. You are essentially saying that the statements of the Council aren't clear enough for you and so therefor you can reject what the Church has consistently taught for 1500 years? This is arrogance and pride.
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw every Orthodox catechism and every major Saint of the last 1500 years will not teach universalism. Our starting point for truth is not our own personal reason, it is the Tradition passed down to us from Christ through his Apostles. Surely you know the argument I'm making, even if there are a couple dissenting figures in the church, the normative position is not universalism and its been consistent for 1500 years. The promise of Pentecost is the Spirit guiding the Church into truth and so we humbly accept what the Church believes and has always taught. To do otherwise is, factually speaking, arrogance and pride.
Jesus's teachings overrides everything in scripture, and evey book written by mankind. Jesus is God! 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Jesus teachings is all about some people being saved, and about some people being lost. Some people will refuse to take the offer of salvation. When Jesus speaks please believe him! Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD. Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Don't you know anything about the second death? There is no coming back from the second death! Because there is no third resurrection mentioned in all of scripture! V Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Thankyou, this brings me enormous relief. My wife didn't believe. And even though according to the Gospel, i am saved, she is not. Your god is the only 'person' that i ever heard her tell me; "I don't know how you can believe this god of yours is love". She died 17yrs ago. She was the gentlest, wisest, most humanitarian person that i have ever met. She devoted her entire life to others. A paediatric nurse. Heaven cannot be heaven for me without her. Especially if i have to spend it in the knowledge that she is either screaming out in abject agony, or will simply just never exist again. I would rather be with her in her torture, or non existence.
@@spiritof6986 Who will make it into heaven? Mat 5:5 Blessed are the MEEK: for they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting. Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
@@OperationReapSinners777 The meek shall inherit the earth. As long as they believe. My wife was most certainly meek. In every single sense of the word. But she didn't believe. I've been struggling in my faith (not belief. I am still totally convinced of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. And i believe beyond any doubt, that he is the Messiah) since she died. But i am now past breaking point. I've broken. I don't want to be saved and prayed in earnest tonight that my name be erased from the book of life. I can't serve him anymore. I just can't. It's not just my wife. It's friends as well. And also the homosexual man that nursed ME 7 yrs ago. Another beutiful soul. I can't forget the times that i woke up and he was there beside my bed in ICU. I can't forget the gentleness when he gave me bed baths, or the dignity that he showed me when giving them. Or the love i saw in him when he wiped the hair from another patients head or the gentleness with which he supported him when he helped him to the toilet and back. I simply can't be so self centred or ignorant enough to believe that heaven can be heaven for me knowing the fate that awaits him simply because of his sexual orientation. One that he was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, born with. He didn't choose it. I think that maybe some do. That's just my opinion. He didn't. I will still live my life according to the way Jesus would tell me too. But i don't want to, i simply cannot accept salvation knowing that neither my wife, John, his boyfriend or any other gentle soul that hasn't accepted Jesus won't be saved. I just can't. My heart, my empathy, my compassion and integrity just won't allow it.
@@spiritof6986 Please read all not just the meek. Who will make it into heaven? Mat 5:5 Blessed are the MEEK: for they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting. Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
@@OperationReapSinners777 I read all. I am familiar with all verses. The entire bible. Despite Hebrews 6,i am of the opinion that salvation can't be lost. And with what's in my heart, the thought of having to spend an eternity in the Kingdom of god with people like the OP of this video, but without my wife or those that i love who didn't make it there,terrifies me. The second death is exactly that. The death of death. That can only mean that my loved one's spend an eternity in abject agony, a total state of permanent torture without mercy or reprieve. Death is destroyed in the lake of fire. Nobody can misinterpret that fact of doctrine. And i demand that i be there with them. If my demand is refused, then there will be no peace in the kingdom of god for any of you. Only war. Do you understand? Not one of you shall have peace until I'm either killed, or my wife and loved one's are released from thier torture. Not even Hitler, nor child molestors or others that have tortured an animal or even a human being, deserve such an horrific punishment. John wrote that god is love. No. It's not. And god is reported to have said that nothing shall hurt nor harm in all of its holy mountain. It is either a liar, or else the scribe is. It is reported to have commited genocide, even commanding that little children, ones who had been at threat of being sacrificed on the burning alter to baal, be murdered. Just to be mercilessly slaughtered by the 'people of god`, instead. It commamded that a man be stoned to death for gathering sticks for his fire on the sabbath day. Shall i continue? You know your bible, so i should have no need to. But this day, i shall do as i routinely do. Take clothes and food to the homeless in my area. Sit and talk with them,hug some and let them know that they aren't abandoned and that people do still care. I'll smile at strangers, chat with anyone who wants to, show respect to all. If anyone wrongs me, I'll forgive them with sincerety of heart. And a couple of people that will be with me, are gay. They await the same fate as my wife, John, his boyfriend and all others that refuse to worship your god. Have i made myself clear?
Psa 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. Psa 34:16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. 1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 2Co 13:5 EXAMINE YOURSELVES, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2Co 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobate. Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Good stuff. After this video, I plan on using a oujia board to summon the dead, heavily lust after the women that pass by my house, lie if I don't feel like it's hurting people, not forgive anyone who tries to hurt me, and curse God if he so much as THINKS about getting in my way. Anyway, see you all in heaven!
@@MrLoonytoon1024 Most people understand good and choose not to follow, hence sin. Yes, ultimately you pay for sin with not being fit for heaven, hence the Jesus sacrifice.
@@alexmachuca9808 most people do not understand good; they do what they think is good for them. Which means everyone is under some misapprehension or has a defect of will. Neither makes you unfit for heaven
@@MrLoonytoon1024 Every single Christian understands good and yet they still make mistakes, which, according to the Bible, means you can't inherit the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, one must repent of their sin and strive to have a relationship with God to go to heaven. Any non Christian does not do this, which means they cannot be good enough to get into heaven. If it were as you say, and everyone inherits a place in heaven, then we would have a world of hedonists who then kill themselves to go to heaven before earthly punishment.
@@alexmachuca9808 if you think all Christians truly understand good and never fooled or under misapprehensions, or never have a moment of weakness, I'm not sure what to say. And the Bible says being saved is a gift from God; there's nothing you can do to earn it. If you're suggesting there is a way to "earn it" then all are going to fall short; us both included. You don't seem to get it. You aren't good enough for heaven. That's why all will be salted with fire.
The heresy of universalism is one that has been dealt with and condemned by the Orthodox Church at the 5th Ecumenical Council it is also anti-scriptural. You can come up with all sorts of brilliant arguments as Dr. Hart has but at the end of the day what Christ revealed to us in the scriptures. Matthew 25:31-46 (Below) makes it clear that some will be condemned to"everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41. Please do not be led astray by these ideas, remember that we have one life for repentance and I am afraid that thinking there is no such thing as eternal punishment could lead one into a slothful life. Further THE ANATHEMATISMS OF THE EMPEROR JUSTINIAN AGAINST ORIGEN.(1) (Labbe and Cossart, Concilia, Tom. v., col. 677.) "IX. If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration ( apokatastasis ) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema." 31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed,into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” -Matthew 25:31-46
He says all shall be saved after all have repented. So thats correct, impious men and demons would not be saved. However as he says we cannot all be saved unless we rescue the whole body of mankind, according to his view, death cannot interrupt this process. So even the impious and the demon must repent.4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.’’
Justinian? Really? Isn't it strange that it is nations and not "believers" per se--as they are judged by their treatment of Christians (i.e., "the least of these, 'my brethren'") that are being separated out? And is "everlasting" really translated as everlasting?
Guys, read your Bible. 1Col 1:15-22 says Jesus created all things in heaven and earth (powers, principalities) and he's going to reconcile all things (=parts of creation) to himself, weather in heaven or on earth. The "tormented ... lake of fire and brimstone, day and night unto the ages of ages" ... Actually means "tried, tested, for purity" (like one tests gold or silver) Ever notice there's "no more night" in Rev22, the last chapter of the Bible? 😇👍❤️✝️🐑🌅 Yes, that ultimately includes the devil and his angels...
@mineben256 Then we are left with an ultimate vision of God Defeated. Paul rather explicitly states that it is God’s will that all shall be saved. If God’s will does not ultimately prevail; if Paul’s predictions fail and at the end of eons; if all is not in all and all men are not saved through Christ just as all men died through Adam; then we are left with a sort of weak fellow named God up there, unable to prevail at the end of all things.
@mineben256 God, er, does ultimately achieve his desire for evil to be brought to an end, just as he does ultimately achieve his desire for all to be saved. Romans 5 pretty explicitly teaches that just as all were condemned through Adam, all are saved through Christ. Revelation 20:10, properly translated, says they will be tormented day and night, for an eon and another eon. That is, for two lengths of time - or, not eternity.
Take heed people! V 1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. 1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 1Pe 4:9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17¶For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
I almost had a mental breakdown bc of years and years of obsessively thinking about the horror of billions of souls in eternal torment. I felt like I was living in a nightmare I could never escape from. I am still recovering from the constant psychological torment I was under even though I no longer believe in eternal conscious torment.
How come all the "heretics" make the most sense and are the most compassionate?
Maaaaan that is one of the things that i've been thinking about for so many days
Because you already agree with them.
@@JasonGabler Actually you are totally wrong. I was raised a fundamentalist and told it was evil to even consider their views. Their views made more sense to me when I was a fundamentalist. I just took time to find the courage to change my beliefs. Fundamentalist spend a lot of time threatening people with hell but I eventually left
If Christ is the lens through which we are to understand all of Scripture, and Christ himself speaks of hell as eternal and full of misery (for the moment, ignoring Bell's and others textual gymnastics), then we must figure out how hell is a part of God's compassion and mercy. This attempt to diminish or entirely do away with hell as a horrible, eternal thing just might be a way that we diminish or entirely do away with something very important about Jesus which we have not yet been faithful enough to grasp.
(That's really all I want to say, but some addition thoughts are...)
I realize that universalism and its variations are nothing new, but the dominant understanding has always or at least long been that hell is full of misery and it is eternal. That a view is declared orthodox by majority in council doesn't automatically make it God's view (at least not for Protestants), but I do believe it means we cannot brush aside so many centuries of wisdom, as I put it before, with very tenuous conclusions from fancy textual gymnastics -- even if those conclusions resonate with my understanding of justice and mercy. This especially rings true for me when we are wrestling with the spoken words of Jesus. I do realize that for many centuries the Church was happy to wish destruction on non-believers. Fortunately, God has raised up powerful voices inside and outside the Church to show us that we have really missed the boat when it comes to loving the World outside the church. Thank God the Church has become far more compassionate in the last couple of centuries. While there remains a long way to go, I think we have to be careful that we're not brushing aside hard fought tradition(al understanding of Scripture) simply because we want to appease the world's understanding of love. We've heard it a million times, God is odd. He will not line up with the world. Right, Aslan is not a tame line, etc. and so on. Well, this is true, not only when it's cheeky, but when it's very hard to swallow. I don't think any of us have yet discovered the reality of hell and what God is doing with it.
@@JasonGabler Well, to be honest, the lens through which we should view scripture (in my opinion) is through that of our best modern scholarship/science, honest open inquiry, open mindedness, prayerfullness, and the presumption that God is mercyful in a real meaningful sense. Viewed from this lens the bible and Jesus cannot be understood in the traditional sense.
However, viewed from a traditional lens the existance of an eternal hell seems very much to be the case when you read an English translation of the bible.
However, the original Greek is a lot more ambiguous - their word for eternal can and mean "for a long time". Yet, I'm not saying that the bible does not talk of an eternal hell but it is definitely much more ambiguous on the matter than traditional prechers threaten.
So from a traditional point lens I think we have to say that an eternal hell might exist but it's not completely clear.
From the other lens I mentioned it is impossible to believe in an eternal hell.
This guy is just brilliant. His message needs to become as widely available as possible, particularly in Christian churches. If Jesus told us to love our enemies, then why would God hate his enemies and consign them to eternal hell? The logic of eternal hell breaks down right there and cannot be reconciled with infinite love.
Possibly because God respects our free will to choose ourself not God. The gates of hell are locked from the inside and people are free to choose it, that's how God loves us
@@lutherkayban2788 Watch the Q&A. DBH humiliates that belief.
@@lutherkayban2788 Perhaps God respects our free will to choose "life" vs "death", not Life in bliss vs life in misery.... It doesn't work that God says "I love you, I love you so much and I want nothing more than to be in relationship with you for all eternity, however, the choice is yours, you can either choose to be in that relationship with me in heavenly bliss OR I can have you tormented for all eternity, but the choice is yours, just remember I love you". This is such a twisted view of God and Scripture
@@lutherkayban2788 God respects our free will but torments us against our free will. ?? Mkay.....eternal hell is inconsistent with the gates locked from inside..
God is the creator of all that is. Everything in existence or has been created. The only thing that is not of God is the unexistent. Even if you are in torment in hell or in blissful harmony in heaven, all experiences and realities can only thought of and be desired because it first came from God. Even to deny this comment is only possible bc it was first thought of from God. Nothing in creation, whether of rebellion and hate or love and trust it’s thw creator are only possible to be desires and chosen bc they were first thought of by God. Anything within the confines of existence can only exist bc they were original possibilities first available from the mind of God itself. To say otherwise is to say we created something out of nothingness. Even if you chose evil and God didn’t, to be able to do evil and exist means God first created it because you cannot create something original that exists yourself bc you can’t create anything out of nothing. Even if you are tormented in hell and rejecting God. If you feel it, think it and believe it, all of that is only possible bc God first thought of it for it to be able to be a choice or spiritual disposition that cake from yourself. Anything that exists or is created can only be so bc God thought of it first as a possibility. Any new thoughts of good or evil can only be thought of bc it was already created as a possibility hidden within the fabric of existence. All is of God, even rejecting God and being miserable can only be so because it was a possible outcome first thought of by God. Also God seems to be freed and without the confines and restrictions created by being influenced and seduced with going back and forth between good and evil. Also if god created free will to choose or be seduced with the pleasures of evil in the name of free will then that choice to do evil has actually led to enslavment of our minds, bodies, emotions and souls. Although we may have chosen it. That choice only comes from suffering, envy, lusts, pride stubbornness, weakness, pleasure seeking and so forth. Essentially, it’s from seeking the easy way out, the way that feels right. So obviously to rid all those desires, free will is ironically granted. So the free will argument actually contradicts itself. Look at God. He created evil, because the only thing that God did not create is that which does not exist. Even rebellion was a created choice. Yet if that’s out of free will and looking at the miserable and suffering state of mankind bc of choosing evil, we have lost our free will. To eliminate the choice of evil everyone could freely create without being bounded by the hippocracies and enslavment of one another in the name of free will. Essentially this is my argument. God cannot be tempted by evil or do evil so he can’t even make the choice to do evil bc it’s not his nature. Is GOD therefore a slave and us humans free? We can make a free will choice that takes away our free will but he cannot freely be tempted or have the desire to do evil and is pretty free in my opinion. The justification of our free will makes us slaves yet his lack of free will to be tempted or have a heart of evil makes him free. See the irony and contradiction. By eliminating this choice and desire GOD creates not only free will but also equality and fairness. God makes us just like him. If God truly created fairness and equality then man nor Satan or Lucifer could have any other desire than to have he willpower that which is of love. If GOd made us in his image then self righteousness and evil could not even be a possible temptation or develop in our hearts. By removing this so called “free will” god makes us just like him. Unless you want to argue that God is a space and has no free will? But keep in mind, although man may have made poor choices to indulge in evil, to even make a choice is only possible bc it was a created variable within the fabric of existence. So why create it if only creation can be tempted by it when the one that created it cannot be tempted by it. Anything within the programming of creation can allow those with consciousness to even decide upon good or evil. If it’s not in Gods programming why was it put in our programming?
Thank God there are more videos on UA-cam of this guy.
It’s not only the only way to make sense of salvation, it’s the only way to make sense of God. It’s so ironic that hyper-Calvinists see themselves as the best defenders of God’s sovereignty, but in fact cannot even allow themselves to entertain the notion of an ACTUALLY sovereign God who SUCCEEDS in reconciling all of being and thus demonstrating God’s sovereignty as All in All.
Look at Luke 16.26 - you CAN'T move from Hell to Heaven
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 I offer another view of that passage that is often quoted in the manner at hand: Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, often taken as doctrine. Even if there "was" a great chasm, it says nothing about its permanence. Shortly after this tale was told, Christ in fact did cross the chasm and preached to the dead! :) Indeed, the dead arose and were seen and heard by all.
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 God CAN move you from hell to heaven.
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 If I recall, there was someone who moved from Hades to heaven, I think his name started with a J . . .
@@awolarn8016 Question: How about the texts in the Bible that speak about hell? They seem to speak of it as a place of eternal damnation. It also seems that if everyone eventually goes to Heaven, then it makes no sense to send people to hell. Also, what, then, is hell?
In addition, what about folks who genuinely don’t want to be with God or who just don’t want to do right? Good can’t force them to love him. What about them?
I find universal salvation interesting and, frankly, appealing. However it just doesn’t seem to be scriptural.
I look forward to your or anyone else’s response.
All the best to you.
The Good Tidings of God's love in Christ = The Good News!
Love hearing from Dr. Hart. Thank-you for posting this.
On the last question of suicide, it’s disappointing that no one realized two things: 1) if a person truly believed that love, connection, and eternal life were the destination of all things, wouldn’t this inspire hope and/or the realization that, whether in this plane of conscious reality or the next, what we want and are designed for us to be in loving relationships with each other? 2) how in the world should we think that a person’s suicidal ideation is a suffering solved by rational or logical processes? Give the person a hug, LISTEN to this person’s sorrows, mourn with those who mourn, seek professional therapy and psychological understanding and entheogenic healings that can resolve the traumas, depression, and anxieties that plague humanity.
When people are hopeless on any level, what they are most often lacking is empathy and understanding from others and empathy and understanding from within and for themselves.
HAVE / PURSUE / EXTEND MERCY and COMPASSION. Co-suffer with someone who feels alone. This is how we solve existential feelings of isolation-this and the psychological deepening of awareness and hope.
Be careful recommending psychedelics. Me and a bunch of friends took mushrooms a while ago. We are all changed permanently. Some change is good, but some negatives have definitely presented as well. But I agree with the part about sharing empathy and co-suffering with those who need it!
I often cry out of pure joy because of the message of Reconciliation of all things... why not start today ❤️🕊️ and make a difference?
I you have a spare minute, pray for a stranger, and unknown person or an unmet need somewhere in there world, then trust that God has met the need... 🙏📕❤️
When people are hopeless, they need hope
Not empathy
Wonderful! Thank you Dr. Hart.
I am absolutely certain ALL people will be saved. He who knows and hears from the Holy Spirit knows when the Spirit speaks to him. I know the Holy Spirit told me that ALL will be saved.
When the Holy Spirit speaks to us, there's no way to deny what He tells us. I know most of you have not received such revelation, but it's not I who speaks, but the truth revealed within me by the power of the Holy Spirit, and my Father knows my heart. 🙌🙌♥️♥️
There's no need for logic, reasoning, and carnal understanding when the Spirit speaks to us. If the Holy Spirit told me to tell my sister she would murder me in 7 months, and that this would eventually bring her to know Yahweh intimately, then I would surely speak this out loud even if the whole world told me I was crazy.
Yep Holy Spirit revealed this truth to me too which is partly why I am here in this comment section
You dead yet been 6 months.
The weird thing is I just replied to a comment on a Chris Date video, and that commenter was arguing the exact opposite of what you said, in favour of ECT and that the Holy Spirit made it clear to him. I will stick to what the actual word of God says first and foremost. One person claims this and another person claims that and backs it up because "Holy Spirit said so". When the only way to know for sure is the sword of the Spirit, the word of God.
Hell is just a classroom where we learn that God is the only good worth desiring.
That's some classroom!
The greatest, not only.
Amen! You get it! So many people don't!
@@1234567mrbob Is ignorance bliss? What are the "dont's" getting that the "get's" aren't in order for God to be just and fair or does being just and fair invoke necessity of the next age or ages for God's fairness to rule instead of making guest appearances and if so does God's current unfairness qualify him for sin , of course not as sin and evil are not the same thing or there wouldn't be separate titles for them, maybe the so many people is the most important part of your statement which is what DBH was just on about so I'm sure tolerance must be a part of a hearty Amen. I still can't find that word hell in the original scripture. Don't think for one moment I'm saying God is currently unfair, i waas just phrasing a question and I could go on , but thank God and don't forget me, i won't lol I can see why David said he can't outline the entirety of the argument in an hour and half
If only the route between that and Scripture wasn't a circuitous patchwork of disparate verses. Believe me, I do wish it were otherwise.
This is SO profound. What a thought. Wow.
I so so so so so much look forward to his book :o
Me too! I mean, check out the brief reviews included in the description on amazon.
The most intelligent theologian of this century throwing down. Gotta love it!
lol
he is sooo sage like .
Intelligence is a creaturely good
Not a moral good
It has no tendency by itself to bring one closer to or farther away from GOD
49:38 I am not "I' in myself alone but only in all others! Wow!
thanks for sharing
49:38 "I am not I in myself alone, but only in all others. If then anyone is in hell then I too partly am in hell." *This.*
His deadpan delivery hides how hilarious his disses are.
This is what triggered me: a murderer converted to the faith. But his victims are unsaved victims. This would mean forever they are lost
Take heart! None will be lost! Salvation is the work of God and He will not fail to save all. Like the story of the lost sheep, the good shepherd searches “until he finds” the lost. God did not create man to depend on self effort or works of any kind to be saved. So, relax and let the love of God encourage you. His justice is perfectly merciful and His mercy is perfectly just.
I think the free will argument for hell is perfectly coherent as an explanation why hell exists. The only problem is to jump to the conclusion that this means one is stuck in that state. Nothing stands still, nothing is stuck. Even a door locked from the inside will be eaten away by moth and rust. And I also agree that this hellish door, is precisely made out of a participation in the divine Logos, and it must come undone because of that. This is why "the end is nigh", always, and when that last door gives in, there will be judgement, but there is no avoiding it.
"Counsel of moral imbecility"
I love DBH's turn of phrase.
Really appreciate that someone took the time to film this. Can we please take an additional 5 minutes and pan both mics (the on camera mic and the lav on his tie) to center, so the image is more focused and less distracting?
Really appreciate the time and effort of all the people involved to make this free 90minute video available to me in my comfort called home. But I digress it is not good enough you must spend 5 more minutes editing the audio so I’m not distracted.
Your type is insufferable.
Fake gratitude to make yourself feel worthy of your self entitlement.
Does anyone know what book of his he is referring to? It sounds like he has written a book on Universalism and the problem of conscious eternal torment, but I have searched Amazon and google and have come up empty. Does he have a working title? I would love to read it!
Here is the link to the Yale page: yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300246223/all-shall-be-saved
You can also pre-order it on Amazon as well as other places I assume.
I think it is hope that wins. We don't live in a deterministic world. Being in a hellish state is always possible. So it's potentially true that someone remain in that state. But it is hope that will finally penetrate any darkness and get the final person to let go and enjoy the party. The party he is already in, hell is not a place but just how some people perceive the fact that they shall be in eternity with everyone else. Most people will find that difficult, but hope will make them grow in that. And it's the hope of the faithful that finally will reach all corners of every person.
Any better audio?
Does anyone know where I can find the text of this talk?
Book on the theme available for pre-order (release Nov ) www.amazon.co.uk/That-All-Shall-Saved-Universal/dp/0300246226/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2C5RJZS41J0JQ&keywords=david+bentley+hart+that+all+shall+be+saved&qid=1567430787&s=gateway&sprefix=david+bentley+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-1
you mean you didn't memorize it lol? If you leave out the big words he just said Love God because he first loved us and you may as well love your neighbor, and if I'm not mistaken we can't do it without God, wish he would hurry up aye I hate myself in comparison to him hahaha
Go to Description of this talk. Transcript button is available on (my) mobile device.
Remember, God has already displayed His consummate divine judgment by “baptizing” the past cruel sinners evermore in the flood of Noah.
Are you seriously calling all the (a) and (b) slaughtered in the flood "cruel sinners"?
a babies
b unborn
i would like to know what drives Dr. Hart. was he ever in mix up evangelicalism?
I think if most Christians actually understood their Bibles, they would discover - with horror - that they are actually working for the Other Team.
2 Corinthians 3 was an eye opener for me.
So true.
@@dirtydan9153 Which verse in 2 Corinthians 3 and what did it open your eyes about?
So true, I was reading tens of people bash a girl because she had to be vaccinated in order to work, so She wouldn’t weigh on her parents by moving back home. How is this bearing the image of Christ? Unbelievable (of course they are certain it is the mark of the beast).
@@KKKaTTT123 Sad indeed.
Why the right-sided audio? Seriously....
DB Hart is an esteemed scholar. I have much respect for him. He needs to argue for Universalism using the Scriptures. He did not do this at all, in this talk.
Consider, Romans 10:9-10, and 13
(Part of the Romans Road way of explaining the gospel, the kerygma.
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved ... For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (NLT)
The explicit implication in these passages is that there are the saved and the unsaved. The qualifier between the two being the individual's choice to live by faith in Jesus. Whatever one "feels" about Universalism is fine, but to me it must square up with Scripture and the Armenian view of the Gospel.
Saved from what? The coming judgement. Are you gonna be on your own or seek legal representation?
I have my advocate in Jesus Christ, and he's the best one money CAN'T buy!
❤️🕊️🙏🌅✝️🐑😊
Scripture is the source of most division, fighting and confusion. God is not calling us with a 20th century, English language bible verse. He calls us by spirit. Spiritual understand is the pinnacle of life with Father God and it is free.
He made it clear that he was just presenting one aspect of his thesis
Have you ever considered the Apostle Paul never actually followed Jesus? He got all his revelations from visions apparently. So did Joseph Smith. Maybe that’s why there is so much confusion among people trying to decipher what he wrote. Just a thought experiment but judge Christianity through the same lens that you would judge Mormonism with and see what you come up with.
God is the God of the Living, not of the Dead.
I'd never heard of Mr. Hart before this weekend's Gospel of Relentless Love Conference. Though some seem to find his candor and conviction a bit off-putting, I rather enjoyed this, especially his response to the "hopeful universalists." It has always bothered me when those who have written books and present lecture after lecture on the subject distance themselves from the label of "universalist" or "universalism" in that way. It's almost always seemed more self-serving than honest. I will not only have to buy his book but look for books on the theology of Gregory of Nyssa. Though I knew he held this position, along with other early church Patriarchs, I've never read any of their works and I am quite intrigued by the mention of his understanding of the creation accounts. Almost no one I have ever talked to has even noticed the differences/distinctions between the two accounts, so neither can they explain the reason/s behind them. It sounds like Gregory of Nyssa might have come to, at least, some of the same conclusion about those differences that I have. It will be interesting to see what he had to say on that topic and others. Thanks for providing this.
I've also made videos on A Larger Hope. That is also a Good book
@@matrixlone I will check out your channel when I get a chance. I had heard that the book was good, but am hesitant to buy any more books on the subject. I have so many already and, for the most part, they all present a view of judgment that I disagree with. I've given up on finding one that shares the same view I hold on judgment.
@@Chrissiela Do you mean scriptures view, stating judgment is learning righteousness Isaiah 26:9
@@nevbillett7554 hi. If I understand your question correctly, I was referring to how and judgement comes.
@@ChrissielaI was wondering if your view of judgement was men learning righteousness Isaiah 26:9 and therefore to be desired as King David prayed "judge me O Lord"
15:20 on the making of what? sure you got the title right there, buddy?
5:40 - Skips the introductions.
thank you good sir
Cheers.
Thanks
Thanks men!
30:37 Aquinas reference
1:09:03 bookmark
Universal Reconciliation, many may be surprised to find this out, but it was the prevailing doctrine of the early church, they say for at least the first five centuries, I recommend with love you look first, But it is not a false doctrine, and God is good to all and His compassion rests on all He has made the Bible says, I recommend doing more research, especially into the first languages of the Bible before they were translated into latin, Koine Greek is the first language of the New Testament, and forever separation from God is not in there, it's in part due to a false translation of the word "Aionon" which does not mean forever with punishment, it also is used for Age, and those of us who have seen know that in Psalm 139:8 it says " If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." but this is just the beginning there is much more, like 1 Timothy 4:10 which in it it sys He is the savior of "all men, especially of believers" so not only but especially, and this will help you see, we need salvation from judgment, and also at times deliverance from earthly death, but if we go off the scriptures God Himself said He will save all in that verse I just showed, so now about the especially part, this means those worthy in Christ don't have to go through judgement they pass from death straight into life, because they have been born again already, we died in our baptism with Jesus, but now everyone else must be born again, they will die, then die again to themselves, a "second death" do you now see? and it shows them on the outside of the kingdom in the last pages of Revelation, after the lake of fire, remember this "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is Love"
(The Total Victory Of Christ) Channel on UA-cam has the answers.
And I also make videos on this.
To take issue with something that was raised in the lecture in passing around at the 27th minute. I am not sure why he portrays the stark Calvinistic viewpoint regarding eternal punishment being voiced in the mouth of a 17th century Scottish Highlander. The Scottish Highlands at that period were a bastion of Catholicism. It is the lowlands of Scotland were Calvinism was entrenched.
Presumably he references the highlands because they seem in the backwaters, and the harsh landscape mirrors the bleak views he is painting the Calvinists as holding. But note that one contributing factor of the Jacobite rebellions in the Highlands was their Catholicism, against the lowland Protestantism. It is, therefore, not just factually wrong, but does greatly injustice in attributing views to a section of society that would have violently opposed it.
"Presumably he references the highlands because they seem in the backwaters."
I believe you're being too uncharitable. A more likely case is that David simply confused the two.
The word "pedantic" comes to mind....
Pretty sure he just misspoke. He usually catches himself, but the occasional slip sometimes goes unnoticed
Apocalyptic Plastic Poetry
An extract from the Hymn on Paradise by
Bernard of Cluny:
"The world is very evil;
The times are waxing late;
Be sober and keep vigil,
The Judge is at the gate:
The Judge that comes in mercy,
The Judge that comes with might,
To terminate the evil,
And diadem the right."
This poem could apply to the Apostolic times of Saint James (the judge is at the door 5:9) and the end of that Age.
Unfortunately, it has been taken up by every generation since and the focus has been one of petty Apocalyptic schemes that has created a riot of thoughts concerning the approaching end of our world.
Since St. James' time of the ends (plural) of the age ie; the back end of the OT and front end of the NT, we've had a long list of failed and disappointing prognostications about the end time destruction of our world. Should we not learn to take a more positive stance on the developments in the world around us?
And perhaps be inspired by the idea that God as Creator and Redeemer is working out His Kingdom purpose in gathering into a unity all its varied strands through Jesus Christ our Lord.
In a moment of teachableness ,if we could,
I would postulate two things:
1 The Kingdom of God was inaugurated by the coming of Jesus and the end of the OT religious system and its economy
2 The Spirit of truth has been poured out and is still active in outworking all truth.
To see all the outworkings we should take a look at the developments of the various disciplines of revealed truth in our world.
For instance, the progress from A to Z in
Anthropology, Biology, Cosmology, Dermatology, Engineering, Floriculture, Gastroenterology, Hydroponics, Ichthyology, Jurisprudence, Kalololgy, Liquids, Mathematics, Neurology, Obstetrics, Pomology, Qanonology, Radiology, Sphygmology, Theology, Uni Blastology (study of having fun ha), Veterinarianolgy, Wordsmithing, Xbox, Yoga, and last but not least Zen Buddhism just to name a few.
Even now (2023) we are on the cusp of developing outer/lower space. How wonderful the potential of that could be! But it needs churchmen to influence it away from evil.
The list goes on and on but it does allow ,if we will, a greater and more practical view of our world as we find it today.
It is the amazing fact that all this development and progress has taken place in the midst of suffering, disease, famine and war ect.
But once you realize the similarity to what happened at Calvary (Power through weakness, ultimate triumph over evil in the midst of suffering) you might want to consider an enlarged view of the Gospel of His Kingdom and its developments in this our "world without end".
The true church and its real disciples are always struggling to adjust to the activity of its neighbors in the world and take a stand in relation to them.
If we have eyes to see and ears to hear we would come to understand that this is the pattern we have inherited from our forefathers in the faith. And that "the faith bequeath to us is as metal tempered in the fire and just because the fire heats up again it does not mean that the metal melts away".
It is in the midst of troublesome times like our present situation that the church and its disciples have come to understand their greater purpose and ,in so doing, find great victories and triumphs in the betterment of our world.
Thereby giving glory to God through our Savior Jesus Christ.
Isn't this a better approach than all the sowing of discord, bickering and lashing out that goes on in the name of defending the faith.
COME ON MAN!
As far as I can see, the Mantel of "Defender of the Faith" is now lying in the gutter waiting to be taken up. Who will pick it up depends on being commissioned with the capacity of a titanic personage in service to the operation of divine Wisdom.
A prickly vocation I'm sure.
This guy 😳
Does anyone think that even those who do the Unforgivable Sin will be reconciled?
The argument I've heard is that the "unforgiveable sin" is essentially the ability/willingness to accept forgiveness. In the words of the theologian Paul Tillich, it's "accepting acceptance". The necessary precondition to being forgiven is opening oneself up to receive that forgiveness. This is the only way I can make sense of the aforementioned sin without it becoming essentially arbitrary.
Or unforgivable simply means not something simply remitted, such a sin will entail punishment. But that doesn’t entail unsatisfiable punishment, eternal.
26:47 marker
John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978 -
“Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and
therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore the whole of humanity, is
redeemed, saved, ennobled to the extent of participating in ‘divine life’
by means of Grace.”
John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 4), Dec. 7, 1990 -
“The Redemption event brings salvation to all, ‘for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery
You’re quoting him out of context. In the first he is referring to our nature in the second to the universality of the offer.
@@bman5257 Out of context of what?These are John Paul’s words,I didn’t add any of my own words.Have a good day.
@@streamscreen You quoted them as if he believed in universalism when he doesn’t, and putting these quotes in context shows that.
@@bman5257 I take the words for what they say,you can draw your own conclusions.Thanks.
@@streamscreen Okay I’ve thought about this more. You had a good point. :) sorry
Ephesians 6 - 10 - 20 is essential reading. You enemy make no mistake is satan as he is mine. It is dangerous in the extreme to seek to frustrate him, only Jesus can put him in his place.
How is "Absolute moral detachment from all other persons" substantially different from Divine Impassibility?
Great Question.
If divine impassibility were true, I don't think God would bother desiring us in relationship at all. It only makes sense if you believe in a deistic God that stands at a distance and isn't personal.
Divine impassability simply means that God's nature cannot be changed by contingent circumstances. Your latent criticism would only make sense if it were leveled against the god of Plato or Aristotle, who is a blank mysterious logical necessity. The nature of the trinitarian god is presumably one of eternal relationship and self giving love.
@@23Hiya "The god of Plato or Aristotle" is precisely the god of classical theism, and is the source of divine impassibility, because this doctrine is completely absent from Scripture and contradicted by every statement of God's responding to contingent circumstances, for which classical theists invent unjustified explanations of anthropomorphism. Since we're so concerned with "simplicity" perhaps the "simple" answer should do: God is not impassible.
@@ChipKempston the reason that so much of Christianity synthesized the notion of impassability is because if the descriptions of God being made angry or sad as a result of sin or evil are taken completely literally then God, as the necessary ground of all that is, would have His being defined in part by sin and evil making them necessary also. This is also not in the Bible and is in my opinion more destructive to the biblical narrative than the notion that we should have to understand the human descriptions of God's emotional life as something less than literal.
The recording was too muffled in the Q&A but as far as the main lecture goes, despite my being open to the idea and logic of universalism, I cannot possibly be convinced as not one single verse of Scripture was mentioned to support this view. It's not enough that some ancient church leader held this view as they too are human. I need to be convinced from Scripture.
Get his book. He has a whole chapter on scripture that supports universalism.
Gregory of Nyssa the Church Father argues based on scripture ... so the secondary exposition by Hart is therefore also based on scripture, in conclusion... 😊🙏❤️
@@user-pk3ru9zu8m the fact is, this video on its own has no scripture.
Romans: AS in Adam all dies, SO in Christ ALL will be made alive. Phillipians 2:10-12 together with 1st Corinth.12:3 "... and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." God works all things according to his will. Ephesians 1:11, 1st Timothy 2:4!!!, Ephesians 1:10!!! All means ALL. Ultimate salvation of ALL is consistent with the character of God and His Word. Everything else: judgment, wrath,death - ALL passing and temporary.
You do realize scripture is interpretive. That sometimes we need context and original translation to derive the correct meaning. And of course the spirit to reveal the truth. Please tell me you didn’t ignore the entire moral and ethical dilemma of eternal punishment because he didn’t reference enough scripture 🙄
So sad nobody took the effort of recording a video with desent sound...
Immensely clever- but not very patient with Toll Booths (understandably).
So yes or no?
it seems so, according to dbh at least!
@@tanner955It's the will of God old son 1Timothy 2:4 can't be stopped Isaiah 46:10, Daniel 4:35, Ephesians 1:11
The consensus of the Saints is clear on the matter. Universalism is utterly rejected.
So you hope you're "unconditionally elected" or your free-will decision is adequate to satisfy God?
I would trust neither, only his Justice and Mercy... 🐑🌅❤️✝️🕊️
@@user-pk3ru9zu8m are you orthodox?we trust in the grace of God for all things to work through us. We are nothing without grace.
There are quotes from Augustine, Basil, and Tertulian that there were “many” Christian universalists in their day. DR Ilaria Ramelli has shown that the consensus early on was patristic universalism. The non-Greek speaking Augustine changed that as well as the emperor Justinian.
@@cherryswirlchale9511imagine actually believing in this. Universalism is a condemned heresy.
What consensus? Which saints? Show me the scriptures that reject universalism.
The question then turns on the relevance of the finite world prior to death. Does it REALLY and ultimately matter? If choices made after death by the soon (relatively of course) to be redeemed from the hell fire leads that soul to salvation by his post death illumination of who God really is, doesn’t that trivialize the innocent suffering of the world? Wouldn’t the innocent then just be instruments of the cosmic salvation of all? Is this question any more “unfair” than Ivan’s question to Alyosha in the Brother’s Karamazov on whether he could accept that all would be happy if it meant the torture of one innocent child? How is this different?
D. B. Hart has already discussed Ivan's objection in his book 'The Doors of the Sea". The problem is different from that of eternal hell. Here is how Hart explained this difference recently:
"It is a good mereological rule that to try to understand the whole in terms of its parts and to try to understand the parts in light of the whole are two very different operations of reason (induction and deduction, to be precise). It is one thing to attempt to judge the relative goodness or badness of a discrete evil in relation to some final purposes we cannot see, but another thing altogether to judge the goodness or badness of a supposedly total narrative that pretends to describe the whole rationality of all its discrete events. The former judgment can never be more than conjectural; the latter is a matter of logic. There may logically be such a thing as an evil that is redeemed in the greater good toward which it leads; there is no such thing as an unredeemed evil that does not reduce any good end toward which it might lead to a mere relative value. In the former case, it is logically possible that evil may be non-necessary in the ultimate sense, but a real possibility in a provisional sense-though even then only as a privation that will ultimately be effaced from the "total picture."
We may, at least, stipulate as much for the nonce, and assume that the possibility of transient evils is part of the progressive process whereby free spiritual beings are called into existence out of nothingness. But the final state of creation, as a finished totality, will not be redeemed in some yet more ultimate end; in its sheer permanence and finality, it must be accounted as itself the end for the sake of which all the conditional evils and imperfections leading to it were provisionally and temporarily tolerated. So my question remains: does the story Christians habitually tell about God oblige us to believe that he directly intends evil as evil, even if only as a possibility, as a permanent part of his final design for creation. And the reason for asking this is obvious: if God can will any evil as a final unreconciled evil, then he is not the transcendent Good, but only a finite agent possessed of an only relative moral status. And my argument is as simple as it is undeniable: even if God wills a final evil only as a possibility within creation’s design, he has already positively willed it as an intrinsic feature of that pattern, and it is this that touches on who God is".
Not convincing and does nothing to address the the problem of making the finite world irrelevant and unnecessarily cruel if our actions and faith prior to death don't shape ultimate salvation.
@@josephcandito It's a shame that you're not convinced because the argument is perfectly valid.
Our evil actions and lack of faith can jeopardize our proximate salvation in the age to come, after the historical judgement, but not our ultimate, eternal salvation: no one, by himself, can deserve eternal punishment any more than eternal reward, eternity lies beyond the capacities of any finite being.
The present world is not a place specifically designed to be an ordeal through which we must decide our eternal destiny. It's a world where finite, transient evils can happen because it's a transient state of a progressive process of creation. "We are well aware that the whole creation, until this time, has been groaning in labour pains" (Rm 8,22).
@@homoviator5553" The present world is not a place specifically designed to be an ordeal through which we must decide our eternal destiny." Where do you find this in Scripture? There are too many verses that say the opposite.
In addition, by making the finite world irrelevant in the eternal destiny, it makes your argument and belief irrelevant. If ones fate is determined by the rejection of God in this world and that rejection is sealed at death, believing otherwise can have eternal consequences. Yet if Hart is correct, then believing so won’t matter. So in the shadow of Pascal’s wager, why take the risk of believing otherwise. In other words, why would you think it is unfortunate that I don’t accept the argument? If it is true (soundness does not save), I will meet you at the same place even if it is a little later.
Christianity without compassion is heresy.
When i read the words of Jesus nowhere do i get the idea that Gods relationship to man is some intelectual, philosophical obstacle course that if you get it wrong its all over. Yet here we are pulling little bits of text from various places in the bible to bolster an argument much like a lawyer would do. What did Jesus say to the rich man that asked about salvation. Be a good Jew, take care of the poor and follow me. Of course Christians dont believe the first, dont practice the second and follow whatever creed the sunday schoolteacher has them memorize. Come to God like children, like the.birds, like the flowers that ive simple lives . Why did Jesus speak in parables? He could have quoted from the bible, could have clarified what it ment but instead he told stories so that we could think for ourselves about how to live, to love each ither to forgive each other to be thankful for each other. A child could understand. What, if anything of value comes out of this sermon that a child could understand? Is it easier to love God who demands only a few hours on Sunday than our fellow man that might have financial problems, be adicted to some bad behavior, might be sick, smell bad, be disagreeable. Better to love Jesus that image of the handsome, kind man in white, there in perfect light above us. Why did Jesus spend the effort telling us to care for the sick, the poor., Those in prison when all he wanted us to do was to love him.
I dont have to be a hopeful universalist. Why are eternal hell believers not hopeful of everyone burning in hell? They teach it like it's a fact when its not...
great point
I just wanted to comment here, that I think David might be a trite bit hard on those who prefer to more cautiously utilize the term ‘Hopeful Universalist’, as opposed to just declaring Universal Salvation an absolute and logically bound salvific conclusion. Actually I do not disagree with anything he has put forward here and I would not ever attempt to even do so - That would be tantamount to trying to out ‘Free Solo’ Alex Honnold up El Capitan or challenging Michael Phelps to a 100 meter swimming contest. However, those who preface their belief with “Hopeful” are not necessarily suggesting, implying or inferring in anyway whatsoever, that God has not been clear and concise and or is lackadaisical in achieving His meta-plan. So much violence has been perpetrated insidiously in the name of this issue, that one should be bold in condemning the aesthetics of Double Predestination but not mimic its proponents’ rigid zeal.
‘Humility’ is the key factor here where any eschatological programme put forward by anyone at any time in history will inevitably result in a certain amount of blind spots and or holes in the Swiss cheese of its theology if you will. Having an absolute “Cock-sure” certitude brings to the table a confrontational arrogance that [leans on our own understanding] and may in some contexts, come across worse than the staunch inflexible Calvanistic Infernalists and or the Dawkinist ideologues that it so aptly challenges. We simply don’t have the full picture and should remain open, organic and flexible in our presuppositions.
Hey bro I hear what you’re saying. And how you’re saying it. And I dig it! I respect your heart and where you’re coming from
At the same time. We cannot be flexible about what God has made clear. That Gods heart and dreams and efforts are for the reconciliation of all things. This we must believe in and work for.
As we embrace the spirits work in our inner man we can become more. More beautiful and wise to treat others like the children of God that they are. This helping fulfill Gods plan.
To have in mind any other end than “God setting things right” is a false vision
@@gwilliams1001 agree. Appreciate you
There's ALWAYS some inconsiderate person LOUDLY COUGHING over the speaker's points. I'm sorry you're not feeling well, but after the second cough you should leave the building.
@@piquant7103 Yep. I'm not sure what position you're actually taking, whether you're being sarcastic etc. Do you frequently cough loudly and repeatedly during lectures?
Haha. Ever been to church?
Nick, church goers are the worst offenders of them all lol
You are a better man for suffering through it, and the blessing is you didn't need to sit behind a guy with a big head
🤜 😷
DBH solidified my belief in God. I can't fully agree with him on this, but I sincerely hope he is correct.
If you take a look at
John 14:6
New King James Version
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Doesn’t universalism provide another way other than Christ to come to the father?
He always bags on the Gnostics not realizing how Gnostic his own belief system is. If universalism is true it would have to entail reincarnation/pergatory/ toll houses. Otherwise what’s the need for the gospel at all? I’m about 95% Gnostic and believe the gospel of John is a proto-Gnostic text and that’s why it doesn’t fit in with the other Gospels.
Sorry but I have no clue what you mean by "gnostic" in the context that you use it.
@@robertwarner-ev7wp I agree that universalism ultimately contradicts the need for a gospel. But could you explain what you mean by being 95% gnostic? Thanks for your response
Universalism says we are all saved through Christ
@@tookie36 so what defines saved because when people rise in the second resurrection into condemnation are they saved??
One could say that much of Christianity does not make sense. I'm thinking of questions such as
(1) Why substitutionary atonement for sins?
(2) Why for my sins, and sin that I inherited from Adam?
(3) Why would God kill his son?
(4) Why did Jesus have to go to hell?
(5) What was the purpose of that? What did he do there?
To me, the story of Jesus' death and resurrection seems so medieval to me. I think if one were to create a religion today, the foundational stories would be much different. A modern creation would be along the lines of Unitarian Universalism.
But who cares about what I think, or the questions I might ask. To be Christian, one must believe the tenants of the faith. These are summed up nicely in the Nicene Creed. For most of it, it does not follow a clear or scientific rational. You simply must believe it. In participating you do experience God, in the Christian sense. It can be beautiful and life changing. Plus you can enjoy the fellowship of like minded believers. Who wants to go solo in a religion of your own making?
Don’t join Christians, be with God who is calling you. Christians don’t know much about God but they love their “rightness” and idols of doctrine.
Read Hart's book That All Shall be Saved. He covers almost every question you asked and most of those questions are based on false representations of Christianity
This is my first exposure to him. First impression: dude just loves to quote flowery poetic language that furthers a passionate bias. If he interacts with primary canonical texts that challenge his idea, I will be more than willing to listen.
I suspect that he avoids such interaction because he knows anyone not receptive to his broader message won't be persuaded anyway. It's more that he's describing a vision of reality than defending some ultimately arbitrary philosophical stance. Maybe you're the one exception, but I'm tempted to conclude that if you're not receptive to what he says here, then you won't listen to anything else he says about how to interpret the Bible.
He says at the outset that this lecture is only representing one of the 6 chapters of his book on Universalism, and that this chapter is the one which deals with the question in the most affectual, personal and pathetic way, and is the least logical and scripture focused.
2 Thessalonians 3 : 2 " For the faith is not for everyone."
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write.
" (3:17).
Yep, because when I write I always remind people that it's me writing. More to the point, the writer is making this point to separate out the worthy from the unworthy-who's working for God and who's just pretending to work--who is just "looking busy" as opposed to who is "actually" busy.
Isn't the writer referring to the Jews who professed Christ, but did not do the "work of the kingdom"? In other words, this verse is calling out Jews who are not "really" believers and not the world in general.
Timothy 4
9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
11 Command and teach these things.
I maybe wrong but this is my hope..
May God bless you
2 Timothy 2:13
if we are faithless, he remains faithful- for he cannot deny himself.
Purgatory is not found anywhere in the Bible.
2 Maccabees 12: 39-46
“They will be saved but through fire.” 1 Corinthians 3
THE FUTURE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH! GIVE GOD PRAISE!
V
Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Terrible audio. Not tolerable!
It's bad at the first - but when Dr. Hart speaks, it is fine... to me anyway.
cotton buds with a bit of baby oil or a letter to the President
2 Timothy 4 : 4 " They will avert their ears from the Truth, and they will turn to extravagant tales."
The doctrines of Calvinism and an eternal hell *are* quite extravagant tales.
You missed the bit in 1 Timothy 4...
"10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things!"
This "heretical" teaching is a commandment BY THE APOSTLE to TEACH in the churches...
Other translations have "suffer reproach". If I have to suffer reproach believing this teaching, if a have to be a "heretic" and be separated, I stand with Paul...
🐑✝️🌅😇🕊️🙏😊❤️👍
BELIEVE JESUS WHEN HE SPEAKS! Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Hey dumbo, have you ever noticed that everyone is entering , I'll repeat that for the twits at the back of the class, everyone is ENTERING , some by the narrow gate and most through the broad road to destruction Matt 7 :13,14. Guess who the ones entering in through destruction are , yes its you you moron because you don't really believe in Jesus , you just think you do but what you say about him makes him a liar and a failure. What, what how do I do that, I can hear you now you twit. Jesus came to save everyone ya know sinners like you, and his Father the Almighty God of love sent him because "God wills all men to be saved" 1Timothy 2:4, right, get that into your thick head. SO, Jesus is God John 1;1 and God is love 1John 4:8, so that means Jesus is love, right dumbo you prize twit hahaha,and guess what LOVE NEVER FAILS 1Corinthians 13:8 but according to numb nuts like you Jesus failed because he didn't save everyone and Daddy will have to fire up the barbeque and toast all those Jesus failed to save even though he is Almighty God and wants to save everyone he just cant because of that lying failure of a Son of his ooh and oops now you have to call the Father a liar too because he says repeatedly that he can and will do whatever he wills , you nutter Isaiah 46:10 , Daniel 4:35 Ephesians1:11. What a nasty little sod you are wanting to burn people forever in the name of God's righteousness and justice no wonder he will say to you I never knew you depart from me. If you don't know love you don"t know God and love never fails you blaspheming unbeliever. Oh that's right you'll be too dumb to know how Jesus can tell you to get lost and you'll still be saved, or actually your probably to dumb to even think of it, but anyway there's two resurrections and that's all I'm going to tell you because your a really merciless, nasty, barbarian brute with a heart as hard as stone, sending people to eternal punishment you horrible little sod, repent now before you find yourself gnashing your teeth and weeping
@@nevbillett7554 2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you ( NEV BILLETT )who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION.
UNIVERSALISM IS THE BIGGEST LIE MANUFACTURED BY THE DEVIL!
JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING! SINNERS SEEK THE LORD! JESUS SAID BEHOLD I STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART!
V
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
@@OperationReapSinners777 Lot of scriptures you got there dumbo but I will just deal with your gates that you first threatened with Everyone is entering in to life,( it says life there's no mention of hell, eternal torment or anything like that in the text, all that is in your stupid head) , a few enter by the narrow gate and most by the broad road to destruction but both roads enter into life Matthew 7:13,14 It starts off saying ENTER IN and advises to do it through the narrow gate because it goes strait to life like the strait gate but the other wide gate leads to life through destruction (you will have to be purged in the lake of fire (God) because you chose the broad road, you wouldn't accept the love of God , you never knew him, you said he wanted to punish people forever , you said his blood was only for you because (somehow in your nutty mind) you managed to merit unmerited favor hahaha ( most fruit cake christians think their personal faith merits the unmerited favor or grace our loving savior saves everyone by ) you are a complete and utter lunatic that would have God carry out your absurd atrocities because you think you deserve undeserved kindness for some crap that you think or have done, hello is anyone home you lunatic hahaha. According to loopies like you other people got a problem with their sins that they just can't solve unless they believe in Jesus just like little goody two shoes you but Jesus saves them by his grace through his faith , not your faith you nut and this is what saving grace does to sin : " Grace super exceeds sin wherever sin is " so there's no sin problem that Jesus's grace hasn't got covered despite nasty little morons like you wanting people to be punished forever
@@nevbillett7554 Gal 6:7 ( NEV BILLETT ) God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
YOU CAN LAUGH NOW BUT YOU WILL SURELY CRY LATER!
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Jde 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jde 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jde 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jde 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jde 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jde 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jde 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jde 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jde 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jde 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy....
@@OperationReapSinners777 I'm not mocking God you moron, I'm mocking your stupid belief and your stance against the will of God who wills all men to be saved 1Timothy 2:4 (there it is in black and white for nasty little hell senders to read) and here's three verses that tell you nutters straight out that He is going to do what he wants and you little sods who want to stop him saving everyone may as well push shit uphill all your life Isaiah 46:10 Daniel 4:35 Ephesians 1:11. There you have it God wants to save everyone and he is going to do whatever he wants BUT you morons love pushing shit so on and on you go hahaha
His eliptical way of speaking, his tendency to interrupt his own sentences with parenthetical remarks and oral footnotes, makes him rather difficult and tedious to follow. He is a learned man and an elegant prose stylist, but not really a very good lecturer.
Well put
Your style of writing is also a little convoluted and intellectually spiced. Just sayin' dude. KISS!
True, this.
How wrong you are my dear friend!
He is a scholars scholar talking to audiences educated in theology, philosophy and metaphysics but i reckon he could dumb it down to talk to me if he wanted but it hasn't done me any harm to google a few words and replay it a few times
2 Timothy 4 : 5 " They will avert their ears from the Truth and they will turn to extravagant tales.
Yeah old son, you got preachers telling gizillions of pew warmers every Sunday how to merit unmerited favor (grace) and giz 10% of your wages for being so stupid
By this reasoning, all children who are aborted would burn in hell forever due to the decision of their mother. My mother lost her child at 8 months spontaneously, it was awful for her, it was awful for me because of her state afterwards and the poor child had no say in it. Completely absurd, if this is our god then we need to be very fearful of him and not in a reverent way but in the way one is scared of a sadistic master, but since we see the works of Christ we know that this is not at all his nature, aside from the very proof within creation, where love remains the strongest and most powerful force of bringing life forward. God is a God of the living, not of the dead, he wants us to live, not to die. I also work with some special needs children, one of them is in terrible condition, he is not a repentant Christian like none of us were at 7 or 8 years old, his mind is now declining, aside from his body, bound to a wheelchair and fed through a tube, I don’t know if his parents are Christians, Muslims or atheists, but this child deserves nothing less than Jesus taking him in to his arms one his life is over… a difficult, horrible, short life I would not wish on the worst of men… he will be with Father Jesus, in spite of his inability to make the choice to believe or convert. I am sure of it.
@@gwilliams1001 do u know what a sprecial needs child is ? I have some special needs kids who are incapable of forming a coherent thought, some muslim and some other faiths - absolute angels, its coherent to think they wouldnt burn in etetnal hell
@@gwilliams1001 sorry I misread, the thing lights me up a bit, cant imagine any of those kids getting anything but rest and peace, i agree with u, sorry again!
Hart does an injustice to Balthasar's position. but of course, hopeful universalism makes sense. his dismissive statements obviously are an evasive way of NOT dealing with the position. Balthasar's position is one based on faith, not on knowing. Balthasar is simply saying: we do not know, but we believe, and hope... i would have asked Hart: so you know you will be saved??? no fear and trembling for his own salvation? no wonder he is so dismissive, the arrogance of those who think they are already saved. in this sense, he is the Calvinist one!!!
Hart's answer is simply logical.
Here's what he writes in his book: "anyone who hopes for the universal reconciliation of creatures with God must already believe that this would be the best possible ending to the Christian narrative; and such a person has then no excuse for imagining that God could bring any but the best possible ending to pass without thereby being in some sense a failed creator".
I guess Hart would also argue that he knows he will be saved because Holy Scripture says so (1 Co. 15; 28 in particular).
@@homoviator5553 indeed, it is simply logical. i just don't see how his position diverges that much from Balthasar's position which he dismisses as if this has no logic of its own. their positions are not all that different, when you come down to it. it is just that Balthasar actually is the more careful thinker here, and more measured in his language, while Hart is the more effusive and exaggerated. a strange thing because in other areas Hart precisely accuses Balthasar of being flamboyant in his language!!! in any case, it seems Hart is mindful of the massive reputation of Balthasar and wants to size him down in order to bolster his own. he called his own "The Beauty of the Infinite" as a minor dogmatics beholden to Balthasar!!!
@@tonydecastro6340 Hart differs from Balthasar mainly in his interpretation of Scripture.
Balthasar sees a "dialectical oscillation between two kind of absolute [eschatological] statements, both indissoluble in themselves and each seemingly irreconcilable with the other", that forbids "by piety, by doctrine, by prudence" to decide between them. Hence a hope with no certainty.
For Hart (following Origen and Gregory of Nyssa), "the two sides of the New testament's eschatological language represent, not two antithetical possibilities tantalizingly or menacingly dangled before us … but rather two different moments within a seamless narrative, two distinct eschatological horizons, one enclosed within the other". Hence the certainty.
@@homoviator5553 i would say Balthasar makes better sense of Scripture then than Hart. Balthasar does make use of Orgen and Gregory as well. But to characterize Balthasar's position as "dialectical oscillation" is wrong. Balthasar, no less than Hart, privileges those scriptural passages that precisely give rise to hope for universal salvation. Again, the issue seems to be between KNOWING WITH CERTAINTY, which certainly IS NOT HOPE. Hart puts too much stock in the human capacity to KNOW ESCHATOLOGICAL REALITIES with CERTAINTY. It seems to me Balthasar is much more careful then about what it is we can ASSERT, but he does not shy from saying the it is COMMANDED that we hope for the salvation of all.
@@tonydecastro6340 your last sentence is precisely the position that Hart rightly criticizes as incoherent (go back to my first comment and the quote). And the certainty about universal salvation doesn't come only from human reasoning or speculation about the last ends, but also from scriptural revelation (1 Co. 15; 28 for example, is a prophesied event, and should be no less certain for a christian than the second coming of Christ). In this regard, and contrary to Balthasar, Hart doesn't have to "privilege" certain scriptural passages, because in his interpretation all makes sense. Hart's position seems daring only because since the 5th century the "infernalist" view has prevailed in Christendom.
Someone will defend heresy in every generation and make it sound new and profound.
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw I need only point out that the eternity of hell is in the Creed (Quicumque) and there have been multiple pronouncements affirming it
Timothy 4
9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
11 Command and teach these things.
I maybe wrong but this is my hope.
May God bless you
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw the Synodical Letter of Saint Sophrionous explicitly condemns universalism and was adopted by the Sixth Ecumenical Council.
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw do you really believe that it's possible that the normative teaching of the Church for the past 1500 years has somehow been wrong and only now a small minority of people like Hart are discovering what the Church "truly" believes? That what every Saint and the entire body of the Church has understood to be the truth this entire time is actually wrong because it wasn't defined precisely enough in the Sixth Council. You are essentially saying that the statements of the Council aren't clear enough for you and so therefor you can reject what the Church has consistently taught for 1500 years? This is arrogance and pride.
@Thomas tlimon.westlaw every Orthodox catechism and every major Saint of the last 1500 years will not teach universalism. Our starting point for truth is not our own personal reason, it is the Tradition passed down to us from Christ through his Apostles. Surely you know the argument I'm making, even if there are a couple dissenting figures in the church, the normative position is not universalism and its been consistent for 1500 years. The promise of Pentecost is the Spirit guiding the Church into truth and so we humbly accept what the Church believes and has always taught. To do otherwise is, factually speaking, arrogance and pride.
Jesus's teachings overrides everything in scripture, and evey book written by mankind. Jesus is God! 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus teachings is all about some people being saved, and about some people being lost. Some people will refuse to take the offer of salvation. When Jesus speaks please believe him! Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Don't you know anything about the second death? There is no coming back from the second death! Because there is no third resurrection mentioned in all of scripture!
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Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Thankyou, this brings me enormous relief.
My wife didn't believe.
And even though according to the Gospel, i am saved, she is not.
Your god is the only 'person' that i ever heard her tell me;
"I don't know how you can believe this god of yours is love".
She died 17yrs ago.
She was the gentlest, wisest, most humanitarian person that i have ever met.
She devoted her entire life to others.
A paediatric nurse.
Heaven cannot be heaven for me without her. Especially if i have to spend it in the knowledge that she is either screaming out in abject agony, or will simply just never exist again.
I would rather be with her in her torture, or non existence.
@@spiritof6986 Who will make it into heaven?
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the MEEK: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psa 37:11 But THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
@@OperationReapSinners777
The meek shall inherit the earth.
As long as they believe.
My wife was most certainly meek. In every single sense of the word.
But she didn't believe.
I've been struggling in my faith (not belief. I am still totally convinced of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. And i believe beyond any doubt, that he is the Messiah)
since she died. But i am now past breaking point. I've broken.
I don't want to be saved and prayed in earnest tonight that my name be erased from the book of life. I can't serve him anymore.
I just can't. It's not just my wife.
It's friends as well. And also the homosexual man that nursed ME 7 yrs ago. Another beutiful soul. I can't forget the times that i woke up and he was there beside my bed in ICU.
I can't forget the gentleness when he gave me bed baths, or the dignity that he showed me when giving them.
Or the love i saw in him when he wiped the hair from another patients head or the gentleness with which he supported him when he helped him to the toilet and back.
I simply can't be so self centred or ignorant enough to believe that heaven can be heaven for me knowing the fate that awaits him simply because of his sexual orientation. One that he was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, born with. He didn't choose it.
I think that maybe some do. That's just my opinion.
He didn't.
I will still live my life according to the way Jesus would tell me too. But i don't want to, i simply cannot accept salvation knowing that neither my wife, John, his boyfriend or any other gentle soul that hasn't accepted Jesus won't be saved.
I just can't. My heart, my empathy, my compassion and integrity just won't allow it.
@@spiritof6986 Please read all not just the meek. Who will make it into heaven?
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the MEEK: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psa 37:11 But THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
@@OperationReapSinners777
I read all. I am familiar with all verses. The entire bible.
Despite Hebrews 6,i am of the opinion that salvation can't be lost.
And with what's in my heart, the thought of having to spend an eternity in the Kingdom of god with people like the OP of this video, but without my wife or those that i love who didn't make it there,terrifies me.
The second death is exactly that. The death of death.
That can only mean that my loved one's spend an eternity in abject agony, a total state of permanent torture without mercy or reprieve.
Death is destroyed in the lake of fire.
Nobody can misinterpret that fact of doctrine.
And i demand that i be there with them.
If my demand is refused, then there will be no peace in the kingdom of god for any of you.
Only war.
Do you understand? Not one of you shall have peace until I'm either killed, or my wife and loved one's are released from thier torture.
Not even Hitler, nor child molestors or others that have tortured an animal or even a human being, deserve such an horrific punishment.
John wrote that god is love.
No. It's not.
And god is reported to have said that nothing shall hurt nor harm in all of its holy mountain.
It is either a liar, or else the scribe is.
It is reported to have commited genocide, even commanding that little children, ones who had been at threat of being sacrificed on the burning alter to baal, be murdered. Just to be mercilessly slaughtered by the 'people of god`, instead.
It commamded that a man be stoned to death for gathering sticks for his fire on the sabbath day.
Shall i continue? You know your bible, so i should have no need to.
But this day, i shall do as i routinely do.
Take clothes and food to the homeless in my area. Sit and talk with them,hug some and let them know that they aren't abandoned and that people do still care.
I'll smile at strangers, chat with anyone who wants to, show respect to all.
If anyone wrongs me, I'll forgive them with sincerety of heart.
And a couple of people that will be with me, are gay.
They await the same fate as my wife, John, his boyfriend and all others that refuse to worship your god.
Have i made myself clear?
He seems very concerned with trying to impressive people with his intellectual-esk orating. I find is distracting and annoying.
Psa 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
Psa 34:16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2Co 13:5 EXAMINE YOURSELVES, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2Co 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobate.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Good stuff. After this video, I plan on using a oujia board to summon the dead, heavily lust after the women that pass by my house, lie if I don't feel like it's hurting people, not forgive anyone who tries to hurt me, and curse God if he so much as THINKS about getting in my way. Anyway, see you all in heaven!
If you truly understood the good you'd desire to follow God and just because you might ultimately be saved doesn't mean you won't pay for sin
@@MrLoonytoon1024 Most people understand good and choose not to follow, hence sin. Yes, ultimately you pay for sin with not being fit for heaven, hence the Jesus sacrifice.
@@alexmachuca9808 most people do not understand good; they do what they think is good for them. Which means everyone is under some misapprehension or has a defect of will. Neither makes you unfit for heaven
@@MrLoonytoon1024 Every single Christian understands good and yet they still make mistakes, which, according to the Bible, means you can't inherit the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, one must repent of their sin and strive to have a relationship with God to go to heaven. Any non Christian does not do this, which means they cannot be good enough to get into heaven. If it were as you say, and everyone inherits a place in heaven, then we would have a world of hedonists who then kill themselves to go to heaven before earthly punishment.
@@alexmachuca9808 if you think all Christians truly understand good and never fooled or under misapprehensions, or never have a moment of weakness, I'm not sure what to say. And the Bible says being saved is a gift from God; there's nothing you can do to earn it. If you're suggesting there is a way to "earn it" then all are going to fall short; us both included.
You don't seem to get it. You aren't good enough for heaven. That's why all will be salted with fire.
Blowgut of the highest order.
The heresy of universalism is one that has been dealt with and condemned by the Orthodox Church at the 5th Ecumenical Council it is also anti-scriptural. You can come up with all sorts of brilliant arguments as Dr. Hart has but at the end of the day what Christ revealed to us in the scriptures. Matthew 25:31-46 (Below) makes it clear that some will be condemned to"everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41. Please do not be led astray by these ideas, remember that we have one life for repentance and I am afraid that thinking there is no such thing as eternal punishment could lead one into a slothful life.
Further THE ANATHEMATISMS OF THE EMPEROR JUSTINIAN AGAINST ORIGEN.(1) (Labbe and Cossart, Concilia, Tom. v., col. 677.)
"IX. If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration ( apokatastasis ) will take place of demons and of
impious men, let him be anathema."
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed,into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” -Matthew 25:31-46
He says all shall be saved after all have repented. So thats correct, impious men and demons would not be saved. However as he says we cannot all be saved unless we rescue the whole body of mankind, according to his view, death cannot interrupt this process. So even the impious and the demon must repent.4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.’’
Justinian? Really?
Isn't it strange that it is nations and not "believers" per se--as they are judged by their treatment of Christians (i.e., "the least of these, 'my brethren'") that are being separated out? And is "everlasting" really translated as everlasting?
ua-cam.com/video/4lHWv4zM7iA/v-deo.html....... ua-cam.com/play/PL9XBPBlYMN8j4G6sFpz9ecH5MLC_ni5Jw.html
Guys, read your Bible. 1Col 1:15-22 says Jesus created all things in heaven and earth (powers, principalities) and he's going to reconcile all things (=parts of creation) to himself, weather in heaven or on earth.
The "tormented ... lake of fire and brimstone, day and night unto the ages of ages" ...
Actually means "tried, tested, for purity" (like one tests gold or silver)
Ever notice there's "no more night" in Rev22, the last chapter of the Bible?
😇👍❤️✝️🐑🌅
Yes, that ultimately includes the devil and his angels...
When philosophy becomes your foundation 🤦♂️
I know! It’s pretty great 😊
I know, it's so terrible to have a coherent theology when you could feign devotion to the monstrous God of Calvinism.
@@anahata3478 this is the best reply.
@mineben256
Then we are left with an ultimate vision of God Defeated. Paul rather explicitly states that it is God’s will that all shall be saved. If God’s will does not ultimately prevail; if Paul’s predictions fail and at the end of eons; if all is not in all and all men are not saved through Christ just as all men died through Adam; then we are left with a sort of weak fellow named God up there, unable to prevail at the end of all things.
@mineben256
God, er, does ultimately achieve his desire for evil to be brought to an end, just as he does ultimately achieve his desire for all to be saved.
Romans 5 pretty explicitly teaches that just as all were condemned through Adam, all are saved through Christ.
Revelation 20:10, properly translated, says they will be tormented day and night, for an eon and another eon. That is, for two lengths of time - or, not eternity.
Take heed people!
V
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17¶For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2 Thessalonians 3 : 2 " For the faith is not for everyone."
2 Timothy 4 : 5 " They will avert their ears from the Truth and they will turn to extravagant tales.
2 Thessalonians 3 : 2 " For the faith is not for everyone."