Nine Features of the Narcissist / Borderline Couple | Romance & Personality Disorders
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2019
- This video answers the question: Can I discuss the nature of the narcissistic personality disorder/borderline personality disorder romantic relationship? The NPD/BPD couple presents special challenges to mental health counseling. Here I will be using an example couple, in which the individual with NPD is a man an individual BPD is a woman. This, of course, is not the only type of structure for these relationships.
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Narcissism, narcissist, narcissistic personality disorder, cluster B personality disorder, romantic relationships, staying with the narcissist, feeling trapped, manipulation, gaslighting, guilt trips, narcissistic abuse, grandiosity, entitlement, needing admiration, pathological lying, envy, resentment, distrust, superficial charm, feeling special or unique, fantasies of success and power, mental health, counseling
Borderline Personality Disorder.
In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), we see nine symptom criteria for borderline personality disorder and five have to be met for a diagnosis. The symptom criteria include frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, unstable relationships, identity disturbance, impulsivity in two areas that are potentially self-damaging, suicidal behavior, affective instability, chronic feelings of emptiness, inappropriate or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger, and paranoid ideation or dissociation.
The narcissists infidelity triggered my paranoia and devaluation cycle. My intuition would cause me to believe he was cheating and when I would have proof he would always deny, gaslight and project.
You have to understand you are capable of being wrong. Pwbpd connect dots and fulfill their abandonment cycle. Sabotaging themselves and relationships. He may have cheated but also may not have.
I have proof, literally eating me up, I hardly recognise myself right now. Even slept next door yesterday....unthinkable for me normally but just aching all over, sad and angry etc.
@@cognitiveharmony2950 mine actually said in front of me, my ex is in town.. I asked if he was going to … her and he looked at me with a maybe look.. how am I to think he doesn’t cheat? He’s on Badoo, I caught him..
@@christinagior42 then cut him off ✂️
@@cognitiveharmony2950 Oh, I did.. thanks
BPD and NPD couple waving their 2 year flag with pride. Being diagnosed, self aware, and eager to work hard to be your best you for the people you love regardless of the hand you’re dealt in life makes a huge difference. Never use your diagnosis as an excuse, it’s just gives your brain a different tool box then what most people work with. One of our biggest tricks for working together through our symptoms is to approach any and all conflict as “You and Me VS The Problem”. The very few arguments we’ve had only stay heated for a few minutes because after the flames spark we deconstruct the issue together to figure out why it made us uncomfortable in the first place and brainstorm better ways to approach that kind of tension in the future.
So you're saying... THERE'S HOPE FOR BORDERLINE GF AND ME? 😮
On a more sincere token, this is excellent news indeed. We've agreed that there are certain things about one another that cannot be changed, things we don't want changed, and problems that could arise as a result of "I've changed my mind about you". I've introduced her to the Dynamic Maturation Model of attachment styles and she knows that I may get paranoid and intense with her. We've decided that no emotion or sentiment is taboo - even outright hatred.
She did mention a two-layer split in her identity - a whole labile personality on top which includes her "meat suit" as we call our physical beings, and a sort of inner essence within that cannot be harmed. I made an oath no matter the things I may want to do to her, that this inner essence is 100% safe from my wrath. This is a fascinating sort of dark fantasy demon/demon relationship we have so far, and both of us want it to last. Once again, excellent news!
My boyfriend and I were raised by narcs, have had relationships with narcs, so we both have triggers as well. It definitely works when respect for your partner is the most important thing in your relationship. We have had 5 disagreements in 5 years of being together. It definitely helps to break it down. It also helps me because I understand his issues are very similar to mine.
Good, I hope it's still good 4 years later and going forward.
I have BPD and was in a relationship with someone with NPD. He fed my insecurities, created new ones. Then he got tired of me challenging his point of view but also being chaotic and anxious. When I confronted him about our relationship he just flew away like a (still self-righteous) coward. It gave me the opportunity to fully realise how toxic and dangerous he was and to fully comprehend the depth of my emotional desregulation.
The difference between us two is that, I always wanted to get better, to improve myself; he never saw any of his toxic behaviours as bad or something that should be changed. His abuse would have ramped up, preventing me from healing and transforming me into an extension of himself, an empty husk and nothing more.
This is sad but it's a blessing that I met him at a very chaotic moment in my life and it was enough to make him go. I sometimes wonder how my life would have turned otherwise. I think I wouldn't have been half the woman I am today, that's for sure.
Same !
Yes..
exactly same happened with me
Such a shame he lacked the self awareness he'd need to treat you right. Some simple effort would probably go a long way, but the entitlement probably got in the way of that.
Yep, same here (me, male bpd/her npd)
As someone with BPD I feel I will never be loved or be in a healthy long term relationship, this video made me cry. But it was nice of you to end it on a positive, hopeful note.
Same
I follow God and am so much better off being single. Nothing else will help
You will. We get better dont worry (:
@@stevearcher6100 I don't think I have a sense of self, I change what I want to study and continually have new interests in what job or what I think I want in my life, and it fluctuarates so extrememley, it creates instability. This is only my opinion or experience. I am happy to keep an open mind as I am only studying this subject to understand
I don't agree with this guy at all.. I have bpd
I have bpd traits im in recovery i just broke up with my bf because he triggers me so much. I felt the only way for me to heal is to remove all severe personality disorder people from my close circle of people. This explained our relations to the tee. Which is why i broke up with him. I used to fall right into the pattern of him withdrawing when i criticized him even in a non judgment way. He would get angry and become manipulative tell me im crazy ect. I would go with it and suck up to him not wanting to be alone. I went to get help thinking i was just crazy and yes i had some issues but what i asked was simple things any woman would be concerned about like cheating ect. Long story short i discovered this exact pattern with us and removed myself. Ive improved so much and his manipulation dont work anymore.
LISA MOORE I have bpd and I was dating a narcissistic bipolar guy. Every time he’d get mad he’d block me. And I kept taking him back even tho it meant triggering my eating disorder. Finally I chose recovery over that madness
Good for you and may God bless you. I'm bpd and I'm with a mnpd and I'm getting help now but I'm still with him and reading what you wrote gives me hope. One thing I've often feel is hopeless so thank you for sharing.
Yes and be careful labeling yourself bpd. I find narcissistic people brings out bpd behavior in any woman they deal with. You could just have codependency and cptsd
This too, is my life to a T. Onky difference is me and mine have 2 kids togethed... I cant just walk away .
Or I would honey!
Drives me a bit crazy listening to his sensible video’s and then paying therapists $200 an hr. that have more issues than ones self!
Dr. Grande just has a way of making things crystal clear 👍
Excellent information! It seems to me that the NPD and the BPD feed off each other's weaknesses. That's why this relationship can work. It's still an unhealthy relationship.
This was 100% spot on. Extremely accurate. And to such detail that it's flabbergasting that you either haven't lived this yourself or you've somehow been able to witness this sort of relationship between two people 24/7 like a fly on their wall. Obviously it's neither, you're just extremely good at what you do. To an almost scary point. Like, have you been spying on me and my partner for the entirety of the 8 years we've been together, and have gone completely undetected?! Do you hide under our bed? In the closet? Never needing food or water, to use the bathroom. Maybe youre some sort of psychic, and have been watching us in your crystal ball almost like you're watching a movie. Obviously I know that's all ridiculous, like I already said. But it was all just SO spot on, every detail of every single thing you spoke about, that it's scary. 🧐🤯😵💫💯🧠🧙🏼♂️🔮
Dr. Grande explains things with immense clarity, where you not only intellectually understand the idea, but feel it too. Really appreciate that
Dr. Grande you are brilliant. I finally understand. Thank you for saving my sanity, my future relationships, and my mental and physical health.
Thank you for this video it really made me realize a lot about a couple of my past relationships especially as a borderline person with multiple diagnoses including OCD, ADHD, and beginning to wonder if I am also autistic, and recently sober from multiple addictions and drug abuse habits. I have been in at least two romantic relationships with people who had NPD and other comorbid diagnoses, as well as alcohol and substance abuse issues. This was very eye-opening to me especially that these things are seen clinically at high enough rate that they could be reported in this way. I really appreciate your videos and your approaches to Cluster B personality disorders where you are trying not to stigmatize us. Thank you so much and I look forward to your next video.
I found that within my relationship with a person high on the cover narc scale, I began to display symptoms characteristic to BPD. I had lived my life without these characteristics up to age 50. My relationship with the NPD started at age 46. I have read that a victim who is experiencing NPD abuse shows signs of Complex PTSD...its interesting that CPTSD and BPD have similar characteristics. I left the relationship 2 years ago (after 8 years)...I have finally gotten my self back and show no signs of BPD. It's important to note that Narc abuse can result in temporary issues in the victim.
This is happening to me. I know now, I’m not crazy. So helpful to find this information. Thank you for sharing.
Wow this is great insight ! Please tell us how to heal it !!
I’m in the middle of wondering the same exact thing ! How can I tell if I’m
Post traumatic or borderline???
You surely show that victim mentality of BPD while being toxic yourself. Offcourse you never had these traits till 46 when suddenly you found a man to put all the blame on. If you have any guts ask people you know for years if you did show BPD traits and why they might not be in your life anymore.
Do you really believe you became BPDish because of a man with NPD? Did you even once thought you also did anything wrong in the relationship or that you might have hurt your ex partner who suffers from NPD? Yes, suffers because people with NPD suffer as well.
@@aboetarikske well actually, if you do the research,,extensively, it's a fact. And, it's not really science that anyone who encounters any type of abuse or trauma,, even in a single event, does experience emotional and mental repercussions, to a certain degree. Depending on the duration, and severity of the abuse.
Phew, so much information, I had to watch it twice and might have to go for the third! It must be a difficult job to do well, so many symptoms, overlaps, and comorbidities to consider before coming to an accurate diagnosis. Luckily for your clients, and your youtube subscribers, I think you have nailed it. I found it fascinating to know that grandiose narcissism can temporarily swing into vulnerable narcissism making them, for that time, sensitive to criticism, why can't they stick to one list of traits!. I can understand how it must be easy to get vulnerable narcissism mixed up with BPD I suppose clinical experience must help.
Another great video. I'm recommending your channel left and right, to both my friends and colleagues from my university.
I so very much appreciate your attention to the nuances present within these personality disorders and what happens when people with personality disorders come into relationship with one another. Your insights and viewpoint on the possibility of recovery within these individuals is really nice to see, especially in the sea of information and opinions stating that there is no hope and people with cluster B personality disorders don't recover. I have witnessed recovery in many folks who seemed "hopeless", so I know it is possible.
this is absolutely fascinating and i understand my last relationship so much more
Omg…I have diagnosed BPD and I’m pretty sure my boyfriend has narcissistic traits and you just described our relationship perfectly 🤯
NPD/BPD - a couple from hell.
😢😢😢
@Jon B - I dont know - maybe - maybe they where a psycho and a soziopath. Psychopath is the leader and the soziopath fallows -
they can cope together because they torture and kill all others.
BPD & NPD - they torture also eachother -
Maybe in some cases, but I don't believe that's the case for everyone.
@@katarinatibai8396 But not everyone with bpd or npd tortures their partner or anyone else, so then what?
Think of the challenge for the children who have to struggle up to build a good life while the dysfunctional parents constantly drag them back down to serve their own purposes, including taking the blame and absorbing intense abuse.
My parents
This is extremely helpful in helping me understand my parents relationship. They're both deceased now, but it helps me understand the nature of their relationship.
Wow, he is such a quiet genius. Every single word, every single observation every single dissection of this awful combination of npd bpd he had right and was spot on, at least from my perspective. thank you so much for making these videos
What combination isn't awful with NPD?
I didn’t feel fully myself and empowered until I looked closely at the dynamics of both my parents and grandparents marriages and how it effected me mentally, physically and emotionally.
I made it out due to recovery in AA, tons of therapy and a willingness to face the painful truths and change. 33 years, finally feel real joy, and deeply grateful for the mental health community.
Thank you for the work you do to raise awareness and educate the public.
Dr. Grande- Can you talk more about NPD/BPD and CPTSD? I know you've been discussing "narcissistic abuse" and it's dynamics. However, I would really like to get your perspective on how one develops CPTSD from narcisstic abuse, and then how someone who has been through that cycle sets them up for longer-term relationship dynamics with NPD/BPD persons. Thanks!
Yes!!!! I second this! I always wondered why C-PTSD folks with no co-morbid PDs keep attracting Cluster B PD folks and are equally as attracted to Cluster B PD folks.
@@StephLovesLife007 Well I have a guess, partially from my own personal experience. It has been said that people tend to look for traits in partners that they see in their parents. Now in my case, I developed bpd and cptsd from being abused by my narcissistic parents, and now I keep finding myself attracted to people who have narcissistic traits. Maybe it's because human nature is set up so that I seek people like my parents and unfortunately for me, they didn't set the best example. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing because some people with cluster b's, including npd, are still good people. I mean I have bpd and I don't hurt anyone but myself.
@@nicorizzo5402 I have CPTSD from being married to a very sophisticated psychopath. Neither of my parents have low empathy or low remorse. My choice here had nothing to do with the way I was raised. I am an empathetic person who I believe he targeted because of these traits, and he fully tried to take advantage of me to get what he wanted. I got married later in life, after having several long-term healthy relationships. So to suggest that my partner selection in this case was based on any previous precedent is just not true. I think this may be the case for some people, but I caution you not to overgeneralize.
@@misse7154 You misunderstand. You got your cptsd from your abusive relationship, not your parents. We're discussing why people who have cptsd from being abused by their parents often go on to have abusive relationships later in life.
@@nicorizzo5402 ok! Neither I or the other commentor said anything about CPTSD from being raised by narcissistic parents. So I didn't know that's what we were supposed to be referring to.
Great explanation, as the son and brother of BDP/NPD relationships I would add that they bond bc of those traits. They share a belief that people are either inherently bad or worthless, it’s from that lens that they approach socializing. My parents were classic examples of shit talkers all the way up to the door of the extended family gathering and then again all the way home. Sister w/ NPD bf did the exact same thing. They see it as something everyone does. In an odd moment of self reflection you would think I’m doing the same thing right now but my wife never ever does this , there is a very clear distinction between her pro social attachment and my family’s history of disorganized attachments. She often reminds me not to engage with this behavior as well. The way out of it is to earn a secure attachment to someone with secure attachment. Otherwise these pathologies just keep playing out and no one is the wiser who is afflicted.
Nailed it
Interesting. I have bpd and have a huge crush on a guy with npd, and he says he has feelings for me too but thinks it would be a bad idea for us to date. Maybe he's right.
And? Did you end up together or did you both do the right thing? I ask because I show signs of BPD (not diagnosed) and I always make the wrong choice in this regard and just curious ;)
@@karlielawless8134 We did not end up together.
@@nicorizzo5402 well done, I'm crushing on someone who I think is normal lol but I'm scared of myself, plus he is Indian and I'm white and his family is strict and I know I'm the opposite of what they would want for him. I always do this to myself lol. I'm already splitting (or so I think, as I said not diagnosed). I so badly want to be happy in a relationship, but alas, I sabotage them with my behaviours even when I say next time I won't . It's almost automatic. Sigh...
@@karlielawless8134 Are you able to look into therapy? I highly recommend it.
@@nicorizzo5402 You dodged a bullet there.
Wow, this describes my Son and his wife with substance abuse in the mix and they have two children. I actually had to back away from the two of them. Way too much drama for me, They don’t go for help. It’s a constant roller coast ride. They get everyone involved in their drama, then they’re lovey dovey It’s crazy town at their house...
I'm in a NPD/BPD relationship and I'm the NPD. We connected almost immediately. We meet at a party, two days later we had a date and kissed for the first time. In a week we started to have a lot of instense sex. We got engaged within a month.
But suddenly, in less than 3 months, arguments and fights started to scalate exponentially. Then I had a couple of affairs, which I let her know.
Now, our relationship is a year old. And we still hate/love each other, but non of us wants to leave.
Leave, there are better women out there
@@sirrantsalott he cheated on her bruh
@@mateoruales9120 exactly 😂😂😂
@@sirrantsalott go away
@@mateoruales9120 Exactly, she hasn’t left either at the time he wrote that message. They’re both so trauma bonded and she put up with his shenanigans. Neither of them deserve each other. He is the original poster, he wrote something he needed to get resolved for himself. It’s him that is the center of attention, and I’m not going to play white knight for some woman who we don’t have a clue about. At least this man has the balls to own up to his crap. It’s an awful relationship to be in. He deserved a better woman, a woman who will actually call him out and dump his ass that maybe he’d have a chance to transform his ill ways. They’re both spiraling down into an awful place. It is sad, I’ve been in the shoes of this man. And yeah I found a better woman who did exactly what I needed to heal my narcissistic traits. Your comment is seriously uninsightful. I have no clue how you think victim blaming this man will help him see a path to heal.
My ex is BPD. Everything that you say is exactly true.
Although I know all of this, you examined it from a different angle. Very interesting. Thanks.
Wow this was my marriage. So many people would tell me I was so lucky to be with such a charming smart man....didn't help my parents only wanted to start speaking to me only because they knew I was marrying a PhD.
Thank you so much for this one and all the other videos. Very informative.
Thank you Dr. Grande. Appreciate your hard work! Have learnt so much from you!!!
You’re brilliant for explaining this !
I’m in this dynamic
Thank you, again!
You're explanation of so many (for lack of a better term) disorders is very clear and easy to follow.
I often refer to your older videos to better understand what the heck is going on!
Thank you so much!!!
this was WILDLY informative and very appreciated.
From my observation growing up of people who I believe to be very strong with the borderline and covert narcissistic side: I think there is is an interlocking of certain emotional needs but in an environment of ridiculous entitlement and constant conflict, often over absolutely nothing other than the desire for some drama, and the combined force of dysfunction tends to spray out towards any children who are seen more as property or like appliances than as people. As always, I really enjoyed you sharing your insight and experience. Sometimes I wonder how you deal with some of the people you must have to work with in clinical practice, but I'm thankful that you manage to do so.
At 13 i realized i was going to have issues. Ptsd. Initially was my first diagnosis. Than yrars later bpd.
Im beautiful. And uncomfortable saying so.
But everyone i meet says so.
I fall for narcissists. I love them to pieces. Overtime i become unappreciated and neglected.
Ive had serious anger issues.
I am never going to be right.
The narcissist impresses a sense of control over themselves and their emotions that i struggle with.
I want that. And i hope to enmesh myself in them to mirror that.
Im getting old dr grande. And im glad about that. Because i always heard we humans mellow with age.
My pain runs deep.
Thanks once again for another rational informative presentation
In each presentation i find answers. And also reflection
My heart is torn to shreds.
I wish i wasnt alot of times. But i dont go further than wishing i wasnt.
Wow, so relatable. I feel your pain. I hope you are ok and finding help and healing. I am recently out of a relationship with a narcissist. I too have also been lauded for being attractive. It is only now seeing this video that I am learning what a liability that can be in terms of being a magnet for narcissists. It is really a form of torture being with them, they pour salt in our wounds. I have also been impressed by what seemed to be self-control but getting to know them you see that it does not come from a healthy place. If there's one thing that has become clear to me its that its better to focus on tending to ourselves than to look to them for the understanding, sense of security, and validation that we desire.
@@drebugsita ThankYou for sharing your feelings.
God Bless
@Jon michael i decided to just work on myself its a better idea. Lol
Narcissists and Borderlines are like oil and water ‼️
Omg yes, I always tell him "I wish I saw the world the way you do" I'm so jealous how they seem to just float on in life and snap right back with control like nothing happened...while I'm in the fetal position feeling like I'm literally dying and can't go on. I care too much and he doesn't care enough. Mind boggling.
I love the disclaimer you made at the start about traits. People are complex and I don't think it's fair to label people as BPD or NPD, especially if they're undiagnosed.
Great video, thank you for sharing
This is helpful insight into myself and past relationships, Dr Grande. Thank you.
This is so fascinating to me and thank you Dr.Grande! “All personality disorders are a lack of insight” really is the KEY to changing anything. I am trying to educate myself, and the co-morbidity of BPD, PTSD, anger issues and past traumatic sexual abuse at 14 can be over-whelming even with the I sight. Could you explain in your easy to understand way the four main archetypes of personality according to Jung??
Thank u for everything you are putting out!! You are appreciated!!
I’m certainly in NPD/BPD relationship and I’m BPD. But I feel like we’ve overcome a lot of bad things through the years and somewhat made it work
Good to hear! Good luck to you both!
That's rare
That's promising to hear. Good luck to you both.
@JD Jones Some people with personality disorders are actually great parents. Some are not though, like in your case.
@Yaben Jr I am a product of such. BPD codependent, abusive father and NPD, OCD, emotionally abusive mother. All three of us are fucked. My younger sister has been estranged by me and my older sister. She has BPD and Bipolar II. I have had fragile narcissistic tendencies, borderline tendencies, major depressive disorder, and avoidant personality disorder. I used to have OCD and OCPD in my adolescence but I performed CBT methodology on myself to eliminate my OCD and OCPD. My older sister has covert narcissism, OCPD, OCD, and borderline tendencies. So, all in all, don't have kids.
This is an interesting video on these personality disorders. I'm a woman with high functioning Asperger Syndrome and even though I'm still single and don't have these personality disorders, even if this video isn't meant for me, this helps me a lot understand how these personality disorders work. What I find interesting the most is how you explain these toxic behaviors without stigmatising or demonizing the people with these disorders, I still feel that I can't trust them, I still feel that I can't be my real self without being afraid of being stabbed in the back, being blackmailed or made to feel guilty for setting strong boundaries, I have conflicted feelings because on one hand, I believe that people can change for the better and become better human beings if they're given new information or go through a life-changing experience that shatters their old beliefs, but on the other hand, many psychologists and therapists have warned many people to stay away from narcissists because of their lack of empathy and constant emotional manipulation. I may be willing to give second chances to people as long as they're willing to change their *_actions, not words_* but I'd still have my walls up because as someone with Aspergers, I can safely say that we often crave acceptance because of how hard it is for us to make friends due to our lack of emotional intelligence to read other people's emotions, gestures and body language in general, this need to be accepted can lead to us being extremely vulnerable to be abused.
Thank you so much for this video. This gives me hope as a borderline that my relationship will succeed 💏
Intriguing analysis as always.
Spot on!! I’m have bpd and my husband is npd. Priceless information I have gotten to understand my marriage. Thank you doctor.
The Psychologist and Malignant Narcissist Sam Vaknin, is married to a Borderline, he says they has empathy and a big heart, but when they gets angry they become a secondary Psychopath ‼️
Interesting, we separated.
My ex was a covert narc, I have bpd, not compatable at all. Interesting 9 signs.
Same for me. I haven’t got out yet.
Is there anyone who is compatible with a covert narc? I genuinely want to know.
Yup
I love how this doctor explains this special topic, is the only channel in youtube I know who can give some sense of hope in these situations and these personalities. I have a bestie who is a BPD and we have many of these little challenges like her feeling devaluated, or getting paranoia of abandonment, literally, I dont reply her message in an hour and she gets the episodes that go from mini to full nuclear blast. So yeah, what we do to sort it out, is to learn more about our personalities, and understand that when we are reacting in a negative way, is not us trying to be a**hole on purpose, is just part of the disorders and to have patience or try to sort out with calm the things. She is getting more understanding on herself, and while i understand that i'm to awesome in the relationship, I also understand that she truly cares about me therefore I have patience with her little tantrums. Everything can improve, we had improved a lot since we started, i'm very positive that is possible!
Fascinating. You're very helpful for therapists.
Both of you should collaborate w each other. Dr Grande seems like he’ll make for a perfect collaboration with Dr. Ramani, at the very least they should know of the other’s existence.
Watching Dr Ramani’s led me to you, EverydayTherapist. I mean youtube did it. Watching you I got recommended to Dr Grande. Guess you have some common audience, to say the least. But irrespective of how we got here.. there’s an educational or narcissistic spark which will serve a collaboration profusely.
You were great in (Do you miss the Narc) video, it was an eye opener and informative. 👍, you should make a video on BPD, don't steal from Dr. Grande 😉,
OMG! This was super helpful! I wish you could see the dynamics in my neighbors, Wendy and Chuck, as well as Pam and Dan. They fit this video to a T!! So much PD going on, it makes your head spin! lol thanks again!
I thought I had BPD but was diagnosed with CPTSD this year. I’ve been through years of therapy and after nearly 4 years of NC I still can’t wrap my head around what happened in my relationship with an NPD guy. I know I held onto my own delusions and ignored red flags but I was also led to believe that he loved me, that he meant what he said, that our relationship was "what people wait their entire lives to experience" (his words not mine) and I just needed to "step it up" to meet him where he was at (I’m chronically ill). It’s like I can’t accept that he was abusive. My brain wants to believe that I was the crappy problematic partner who ruined a good thing.
If you suspect you have BPD traits or CPTSD and you meet someone who you suspect has NPD, keep your guard up. NPD people look out for themselves, always. Have your own back cause if you don’t your NPD partner will destroy you mentally and emotionally. People pleasing a narcissist is like feeding a black hole. They’re never satisfied and eventually you run out of food for yourself.
Narcissists are predators, who prey upon others weakness, they waits for you to fail ‼️A Narcissist want's to control, destroy and dim another humans light ‼️
I am completely controlled by a npd guy. He completely dehumanizes me on a daily basis. I had to quit an awesome job because he thought a bunch of nonsense. Truly. He made me get a new phone that he pays for. So when he gets mad at me for not complimenting him enough he turns it off. I can't keep a steady job because of him. I am trapped. I thought I was out a few months ago and pretty much scared the crap out of the girl I was staying with.. i love him though. What the hell is happening?! I'm educated. I'm insightful. Anybody else going through this?
@@user-xi6jj5fv8d What you're describing is textbook for these types of people. It's no surprise you landed here on this YT video. I hope you find your way out. These relationships are addictive, it feels like love though. Other people have gone through or are going through what you are. I highly recommend finding communities of those people, it helps it make sense. You're still educated and insightful even if he makes you feel otherwise.
Very insightful. Watching them minimize toxic behavior, even crimes, betwixt one another then react to imaginary events was too much. Wish them and those around them luck but I had to take that order to-go.
Wow. Nailed that for sure. I loved that my covert narc was always even-tempered. I thought it was a very strong trailer and would equate to him keeping me calm and safe feeling... boy, was I wrong.
Once again a brilliantly clear presentation. The only regret is that information arrives too fast for a full integration and it would be most helpful to have a transcript of these talks for a careful study
Thankyou, Dr.Grande, for the helpful content. I'm a bipolar senior.
I'm trying to be brief because you've so many followers with so many questions.
My question is:
"Do you feel that the mentally ill have a higher propensity toward pursuing and believing in spirituality?"
I'm a little concerned about chasing rabbits vs. healthier endeavors. The David Icke vid got me wondering because he seems far out but I'm intrigued by the "thoughts have energy"/double slit articles and the way they seem related to the teachings of ernest holmes and eckhart tolle, among others.
Thank you again. Your vids are actually therapeutic salvation for some of us who are in pain.
wow everything you said is spot on. you are really knowledgeable
Wonderful insight; comprehensive and scientific...thank you
I am watching on Netflix Stranger Things Season Three the last episode and I get a notification from Dr. Grande's channel about a brand new video. I stop watching Stranger Things and start to watch this video. Is there anything more to say???
Amazing interesting video Dr. Grande. Thanks. I go back to Stranger Things now doc 😃
LOL, thank you!
This video was spot on. I have B.P.D. and C-PTSD and I have been in a relationship with a younger man with N.P.D. for several years, and it has literally driven me insane. He never sees anything wrong with his behavior, but I'm constantly apologizing for my behavior, or for my reaction to his abuse. Sex is the main component of our relationship. I feel like I'm in a trauma bond with him. I obsess over him, and I devalue him at the same time. It has become mentally exhausting to be in a relationship with a person with N.P.D. because they don't think anything they do is wrong. They just get upset when you object to the things they do like constantly lying, and cheating on you. He has also manipulated me to spend large amounts of money on him which has made me even more resentful towards him. I feel like I love him, and I hate him both at the same time. Which is very hard for anyone without B.P.D. to understand how that feels. It's a terrible situation I pray that I don't get myself into ever again because it has caused me a lot of heart ache. I don't feel like I'll ever truly get over him. He will move on from me because he has N.P.D. and he's 23 years younger than me. I'm not sure if I can ever trust another person again for a relationship after the manipulation, and narcissistic abuse he has put me through.
I’m sorry. I have bpd and I have been in a relationship with a narcissist for 9 years that I am trying to get out of. I know now that it’s a trauma bond which as addicting as drugs are if not more. It’s really hard to get out of this situation but I am trying my best…
I am sure you will find someone that will treat you right! Just give yourself time to heal and you just have to keep yourself busy and try to keep him off you’re mind, I know it’s hard but it’s necessary. Therapy helps a lot.
Devalue him ..he will start spending on you. Never love you but at least you will get gifts
@@renee2641 well 4 years after devaluing and complaining he's never there for me he only brought me food a few times never took me out properly 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you so much Dr. Grande !! .. you have taught me a lot 🙆🏻♀️💪🏼
You are quite welcome!
Thanks Dr. Grande.
Your talk is absolutely awesome. 🇪🇬
This makes my last relationship make so much more sense. I understand why it was so hard to let go of now.
Love this video. Thank you so much. I know a couple. They have love hate love relationship, everything made so much sense.
I love when doctors make videos on UA-cam. It’s so helpful. And clearly they take the time to do this without getting paid.
Yep we’ve been at it 48 yrs, I’m trying to own my shit & have a few good years, we have survived a love hate relationship for so long but are really struggling now to find a common ground. What we had in common is no more. it’s so late in the game. Finding a counselor for guidance seems impossible. Thank you for your videos!
BUT CPTSD after being with an NPD person looks like BPD.
Yes, they have a lot of symptoms in common, and most people with bpd also have cptsd.
Gwen13061 this is true
I am sure I have CPTSD. My ex a overt narc. Mother a covert narc. Seeing this video think I may have BPD.
All of it is just CPTSD
I agree I thought I was bpd. But im not it’s actually cptsd.
VERY GOOD TOPICS FOR A VIDEO ON PERSONALITY DISORDERS!
This was very helpful, thank you
I'm a covert narc (diagnosed by three professionals 'til now) and I was in an intense relationship with someone with strong antisocial traits: is it common? P.S.: I love your videos.
This video saddens me - i had a relationship that i believed could be the one and only, my second half, true love and stuff like that. But it didnt work. I always wondered why, because we never really had a chance to talk about it. Now my therapist said to me that i have traits of BPD and the description of this relationship fits so well.
This is really interesting, thanks. You seem very smart.
If you have a diagnosis of BPD or BPD traits and you realize that you are dating a person with NPD or traits...Run like helll and don't turn back. They will destroy you without hesitation and have very little remorse about it. You'll become the psycho ex, while they've forgotten all about you, while they're with their new victim. I hate people with NPD they're destructive.
BPD responds to treatment still. Being with a narcissistic is like banging your head on the wall. It may work out like Dr. Grande pointed out, but very well be at the expense of the BPD individual. It will entail BPD to stay that way, unless they don’t wanna heal it will be difficult ride with NPD. The relationship may work but their mental health won’t
Idk, I've met some people with npd who are nice people and are responding to treatment. Some are destructive as hell though (cough cough my parents).
@@nicorizzo5402 In a relationship sense NPD seems the same as dismissive avoidant attachment type/emotionally unavailable, I wonder if Dr.Grande could clarify if this is true.
@@skimmedmilk7716 Hmm that may explain why my npd friend/crush sometimes ignores me and flakes on me...
Been here , done this. Lol. Thankfully its over! Not being in a relationship ( romantic ) isnt for me. Thanks Dr G.
You're welcome :)
Thank you. That's a very informative explanation. You mention in passing how all personality disordered individuals lack insight. However, I wonder that the issue is as much to do with 'ownership' or more specifically 'lack of ownership' of the noxious behaviours/characteristics? As someone who has been on the receiving end of others' projections, I wonder whether, had I been better informed, I might have seen these projections as direct 'offloading' of the characteristic which the personality disordered person disowns. Whilst not having true insight, the disordered person nevertheless has been forced to acknowledge some aspect of their own dysfunction - e.g. they may receive verbal criticism, non-verbal criticism (frowns and stares) etc. not own it, but then project that criticised characteristic onto another whom they want to devalue/control?
Great insights - thank you. 😃
Thank you for this. This is my relationship to a t!
Gosh I love your videos. I soak them up like a sponge. 😊
Thank you so much!
My one true great love is exactly NPD/BPD relationship where I’m BPD. I have managed to keep myself stable and continue working on things like splitting and paranoia through being more conscious and educated about my disorder and also I’ve noticed that the biggest role in my mental health healing played healthy lifestyle. In fact I’ve become a professional personal trainer and a qualified nutritional therapist in order or by trying to help myself feel better. It saddens me to see how far the modern medicine protocol is from prescribing healthy lifestyle and diet as the first step and primary step in helping patients with mental health issues despite mountains of evidence that that’s what works best. Would be interesting to see your thoughts on nutritional approach as a way of adjusting biochemical imbalances in patients so they are more responsive to other types of therapies like talk therapy etc. I can say from my experience that a brain on sugar and deficient in Omega-3 can’t respond as well to talk therapy as a brain of a person who walks everyday and eat a well balanced diet. Thank you for this episode! As always, very informative!
Brilliant analysis and insight. It gives me a lot to think about in navigating "healthy" relationships. Thank you. I have identified someone with NSSI, a BPD suspect. I find them delightful..........POW, incendiary, I suspect......bad for both NPD, and BPD.........etc.....I'll stay away, in the interest of humanity....
I know plenty of these combinations amongst my relatives & friends. It's dysfunctional yet I works on the surface level
It is like parallel play in toddlerhood...parallel perceptions of a relationship based on fantasy and denial...Most interesting...still, something links them. I suppose more research is needed to understand what factors influence or impede the success of such relationships. Thanks!
Thank you for informing us and putting it so clearly, Dr. Grande. I'm happy to subscribe. Our experience with a NPD/BPD couple in the family is full of much grief. Clarity and naming the issue helps.
Excellent! Thank you!
Omg this is my life to a T. My fiance and I are just about, word for word, demonstrating these disorders or traits.. I mean this is eerie... wow. . I'm SHOCKED.
A former friend of mine was diagnosed with bipolar disorder for many years. When the therapy and meds were not working, she sought help and was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I got engaged during our friendship & she immediately got a very negative vibe from my boyfriend. To the point that she ended the friendship (this would be the second time she ended our friendship). My husband did nothing but say negative things about her after our fallout, despite knowing very little about her & spending maybe a few hours together over a span of a few months. Later, during my marriage, I was able to see that my now husband was a full blown narcissist. I found this to be very interesting. It wasn't until I watched this video that I was able to see their similarities & differences. This has helped me greatly in the last hour. I am able to see why they were adversaries, why they attracted my friendship, and why I attracted their company. I gotta say, I've never had more fun in my entire life that with her & him. That's for sure. I feel very blessed that I was able to recognize the toxic nature of our relationships. And I have had no contact with her for several years. I divorced my ex after only 3 1/2 years of being a couple. I did so when I had my son. I saw how they treated me & did not want my son to think "that's how friends & spouses act towards my mom." I have also taken full responsibility for my part in these relationships & have used Law of Attraction to guide me towards healthier relationships. I still have PTSD due to these interactions, but I've been working on that for 5 years. If anyone is reading this, I highly recommend studying LOA. It will change your entire life.
Thank you Dr Grande, or rather, Dr Grandiose! A Velly impressive shirt if I do say so myself!
You're welcome!
I can't see why somebody would give you a thumbs down. It's like not liking that two and two make four, Todd (*.*)
Oh dear... This was disturbing... I feel like Dr.Grande had been spying on, and diagnosed my husband and I... He might claim not to be diagnosing anyone particularly... But this is so close to home 😂 we struggled for years with substance abuse... Now with lots of counseling and sobriety we ARE finally finding success and happiness in our relationship... Great analysis 👍 you pretty much reflected everything our in-person counselor said about us
Watched this twice and now accepting this. It's so difficult. I am thankful he ended this on a positive note but it is difficult to be positive at all right now. I am going to get counseling again and will stick with it this time. $120 per session though is $500 a month which makes it even more difficult to stick with but I don't have any choice at this point. Love goes out to all of us suffering with mental illness. We didn't choose to have shitty parents or childhoods. Most of us were abandoned, ignored and/or abused which doesn't mean we are choosing this behavior but we don't even know we are doing it.
Just for your knowledge I am a borderline who not only recognized my traits on my own but also got help. I noticed you said we lack insight . I don’t agree . But I notice my narcissist lacks insight , and uses my borderline issues as his crutch for his own reactions rather than seeing he has a narcissistic baseline . We are over now and I’m seeking therapy , he is moving on coldly and saying he’s not a narcissist. Hope this helps you see things from a borderlines direct experience. We actually can enable a narcissists bad behaviors. Narcissists hate weakness and at times I appear weak when I’m in my deep feelings of abandonment . He would actually become more cruel when I was in need. It’s a toxic dynamic and one that borderlines attract to , due to childhood wounding that makes the narcissist seem
Familiar. In my case I was looking to heal my father wound.
Congrats on therapy. Maybe you had less insight before you got treatment?
Me too same thing
You sound very high functioning. Best wishes.
Narcissists are predators, they prey upon others weakness, and waits for you to fail ‼️Dr Judy Rosenberg have good videos about Narcissism and Narcissistic mothers, she says Borderlines are daughters of Narcissistic mothers, they are destroyed and fragmented inside ‼️
@@tovenrvik6336 I love Judy WT Freud! She and I spoke on the phone once . And yes she is correct my mother was and still is a raging narc who was also a borderline . I'll agree I'm
Fragmented . Putting back my pieces now and God has left me standing alone to heal , allowing al my toxic people to fall away . I am now left to look at me myself and I . Im 50 and have never been alone. I pray for Gods mercy in this healing journey .
Those are my parents. Thanks for explaining, because boy does this stump me!
The last three relationships I was involved in were with narcissists though I wouldn't necessarily classify them as having full npd. I have many traits of bpd but I also came to terms and no longer have the impulsive, overly intense emotional outbursts like I had in my late teenage and early 20 years. The first and third relationships were with overt narcissists and the 2nd was overt. In my experience, they were the ones who devalued me, especially with the two overts. A lot of other things you brought up I could relate to. Only after we broke up did I come to the full realization that the 2nd male was an overt. He was cruel and mentally manipulative aterwards. Guess everyone has different experiences.
To everyone on here who is currently in this situation and able to make it work,.. congrats. That's really what's up.
I have BPD and my husband is a horrible case NPD. He was incredible abusive. I had to finally leave him last year. I got a restraining order and went to a crisis center. I now go to therapy and I’m doing the work to get help.
Oh. Boy so much of this is explains my ex and I. BPD guy with PTSD for flair and an NPD/Traits. Took years for my therapists to nail it all down and now it’s as if it was so clear all along. It sucks. Flat out it’s awful but I’m still putting my pants on two legs and a funny dance at a time and trying. Thanks for great insight. It’s a shame.
Thank you Dr. Grande
You 're welcome!
My parents were the other way around. My dad was bpd and my mom a covert narcissist. Here whole self-worth came from being his fp and being so pure and good she could be the only person who understands him. It was really profitable for him to have a stable relationship without ever having to work on himself.
When I didn’t fit their ideals of a good daughter anymore (by being depressed at 13) it was awful though. He split on me constantly, getting really aggressive, accusing me of hating him when I was just too damn tired to do an activity with him and she treated me like just an extension of herself always trying to gaslight me about my own mental state because “she was the expert” and without even a proper conversation she apparently knew better than me what I was going through.
So yeah even if those couples can be functional I’m worried about what happens when kids enter the equation, with the lack of insight especially and a fragile sort of peace, especially when they’re not in treatment.
Nailed it, not sure if I'm full blown NPD, probably just like you said and I just have some traits. Many of the outcomes my wife and I have are just like you described though so it's at least partially right.
This describes a couple I know. The man is a surgeon from Africa and the woman is a British national living in the US. He seems like he has many narcissistic traits and she is a friend of mine. She's struggles with a lot of depression and I do notice what looks like bpd traits. They lived together and would go through these cycles. He would become very cold with her and she would continuously panic as this occurred. He is likeable man with abundant charm. He's also unfaithful having a lot of attention from women. This video was a real eye opener. Seems textbook. Amazing
Dr. Grande, you talked about that phenomenon of swinging temporarily into vulnerable narcissism and back into grandiose narcissist.
This phenomenon of swinging is something that can makes it difficult to properly diagnose people I think?
Wouldn't it be an idea to talk once in a video about this kind of swinging behaviour(s) in personality disorders in general?
It's obvious to see it in BPD, but more difficult in other PD's? Can you give examples about swinging of traits in other PD's? How does it look like and why and when does it happen?
Has there been any scientific research done about it and what's your personal experiences in counseling with this phenomenon of "the swinging of the traits in personality disorders"?
Thanks doc 😃
He distanced himself and only comes back when he needs something. The feelings on his part has definitely changed allot. I can feel it. And I’m glad there is space for me to work on myself.
I just hope I can stay away even when he tries to fish me back in. I don’t want to stress about how to keep him happy. I need to keep myself happy. Because he has shown a pattern of not caring about me unless there is something in it for him still
I’m going through this right now. crying and praying I’m strong enough to stay away this time.
can you give us an update on how things are going? hopefully good news lol I am struggling with this as we speak
Have you already done the vn vs bpd in women specifically? I think I recall the general, but I really understand there is a lot of differences (& with ADD/ADHD esp in young people?) .
What are your thoughts on the mental - digestive pathology association? Seems to make a lot of sense logically, so- naturally, a scientific explanation is welcomed.
Also thank you. You're great at this.
Oh my God. Yes. Your first point. I have BPD traits and he definitely only has NPD TRAITS. Everyone tries to unofficially diagnose him but I am absolutely sure he does not have the personality disorder as much as just a few traits that pop up from time to time.
exactly, my therapist is saying my ex has it, but I don't think he has the whole thing... but he is acting really narcisistic with me and it's almost driving me to actually kill mself... :(
@@GirlOfShips please leave!!! Please! Mine almost killed me in public when I went back the last time and it finally broke my trauma bond to him. I have never been happier within myself. Please leave.
Would be curious to hear about vulnerable narcissist/bpd couple as well. Thank you for this video !
I have BPD and my ex has strong vulnerable narcissist traits. Our relationship was very pathological. It's similar to trying to have a relationship with an overt narcissist...impossible...omg, it is just pure poison. Their defences are always up. The difference is that the overt narcissist (four years) was a very handsome, successful, charming and self-confident man and didn't lose his temper. They were both fun to be with before the newness of the relationship wore off and the discards began. But the vulnerable narcissist was not handsome, so he was insecure, neurotic and very moody (30 years). They were both subtly manipulative and seeking to stroke their egos and impress their friends. The vulnerable narcissist ended up being very self-righteous, arrogant and controlling, just like an overt narcissist. Both of those relationships ended up being toxic and I became sick and suicidal. Only psych meds have been able to put my CNS back together.
@@faithevolution552 Hi ! Thank you for your answer. I am sorry you had these hard experiences.
I am also someone with BPD and despite my boyfriend claims he doesn't have narcissistic traits, I strongly believe he does.
I feel dismissed, gaslight at times and manipulated; things I didn't feel with other relationships specifically. I would be curious to hear about some examples of yours that you had to deal with, to compare with mine to know more about if my intuition is right about his traits and tendencies, if of course, you would like to share. Thank you !
Yeah, that was the one that got me. he seemed so humble, sweet, and caring 🙄
The Psychologist and Malignant Narcissist Sam Vaknin is married to a Borderline, he says they has empathy and a big heart, but when they gets angry they become a secondary Psychopath ‼️
@@Friponnepolissonne The first red flag on a Narcissist is devaluation after lovebombing, when that comes in you are dealing wt a Narcissist, and it's time to leave ‼️