Cultish: Ellen G. White & The Millerites
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- In the 1st part of this long-awaited series, we look into the historical origins of Ellen G White & the underlying worldview that formulated the 7th Day-Adventist church.
Whether you are a former or active Seventh-day Adventist, or just generally curious about the Seventh-day Adventist church, we invite you to listen in and be part of this conversation.
Be sure to like, share, and comment on this video.
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Before this podcast I was considering supporting, but now you will never get my support. Makes me wonder about the validity of any of your content because I know firsthand how wrong this one is.
@@dr.g1482 You are one of the few INTELLIGENT people on here for not being influenced by the radical critics of Adventism who are convinced that their telling a lie often enough about Adventists will eventually be accepted as the truth.
ua-cam.com/video/p1fzHbSo9lM/v-deo.html
A lot better unbiased representation
@@charity2275
Dr G has been exposed as a fake account using multiple accounts, and making claims about others without any form of justification through sources
@@nicetry620 I don't know anything about any Dr. G. Whoever he is, he is correct about this video.
I left SDA church last year. I was born as a 3rd generation, and after 40 plus years I left. These two ladies helped me a lot. I listen to their Former Adventist Podcast. My relationship with Jesus has never been on this level. I absolutely love reading my Bible every single day, and I finally understand what it says. I know I am saved because of what Jesus did, and because He gave me the Holy Spirit who is my guarantee of my salvation. I could never go back to the SDA and I could never unsee what I see now in Scripture.
I am delighted to see Colleen and Nikki have helped you leave Adventism and point you in the right direction.
well come back as you are now in babylon as all sunday churches are babylon and will soon receive the mark of the beast? Are you looking forward to receive the mark of the beast and end up in hell?.
I see you fulfil prophecy in our hearing
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
@@annettemacintosh117 That is right and bible prophecy does warn us against the false doctrine of our day, be it Adventist, Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses. False religion abounds and Adventistm is just one among many of the false religions.
@@AcademyApologia Amen! They mean well, but like all counterfeits, they try to earn God's favor by their own efforts & merit. May the Lord open their eyes to see the beauty of Grace ❤️
I am an SDA and that these Ladies say, that SDA talk to insiders other than outsiders is a blatant lie. I have no problem to tell whomsoever about Adventist history and doctrine.
Troll account ⚠️👆
The saddest part of leaving a fellowship of eople you love sincerely. I had the break the news to a few members I'm leaving. It's heart breaking 💔
Answering adventism is a great channel
Hello I am a former sda and seriously and honestly with all respect i can tell you that this is the most distorted podcast I ever heard. Please it will be good if you can invite a former well educated sda just to clear all misconceptions that have bee spoken. THANK YOU, MAY THE LORD CONTINUE BLESSING YOU ALL
You are a HONEST person.
If this is wrong, why did you leave the SDA church?
Man I was a former SDA to and stop defending that heretical cult
Adventists the most hated on earth, even Satan shudders 😂
Great video I’m an ex Adventist and I had to deconstruct and reconstruct because it s a mind control church and your not even aware of it and now I thank God I’m now a Christian
+
Booyah
So how did they control you?
@@martinduplooy259they tell you Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and if you don’t keep the sabbath you loose your salvation salvation is also your been vegetarian and they put fear in because they say if your not an Adventist you’re lost
@@hectorromero4375 to be honest these ladies are just all over the place. For example they say sda believe something like Jesus died on the cross and now a door has been opened where we can now keep the law of God. I have never heard that and I listen to many sda posters all over the world. The law show us our sins because transgression of the law is SIN but it only show us what we are doing wrong it can not save us, we are saved by his blood (grace) and our faith (following Jesus) daily. Not sure what she was saying about the holy spirit leaving and coming back, if you harden you heart toward Jesus yes you'll become more separated from him but Jesus will always take you back if you repent with a sincere heart, David was an example. We do belive you need to be obedient to God's law and that it's not a burden as you will have a master but up to you who is your master is, Truth or error. The Great Controversy is correct, Satan rebelled against God and if God just destroy him his created begins will serve him out of fear and not love. We know there is a law in heaven because the ark of the covenant has a mercy seat on it and in Hebrews it say the original sanctuary is in heaven and we only had a copy of it.
Before the sda church was formed there were many protestants people that followed the teaching of Muller about cleansing of the sanctuary as in Daniel 8:14. They where wrong because they teached at that time the sanctuary is earth, but after the great disappointment they learned that in Heberew they say the sanctuary is in heaven and they got that wrong. So hear is where the people started splitting up and started other churches but those who continued to believed Jesus is coming they just had the even wrong they continue to study and then Ellen White started getting the prophetic visions. The SDA start foundation is Daniel 8:14. And after the they formed the SDA church. They never agreed on the Trinity because it was not the message to give, they believed was the 3 Angel's message Revelation 14:6,7,8. A lady called Rachel Oakes Preston was responsible to introducing the Sabbath to the Millerites, she was Sevenday Baptist. If you read the Paper the produced as a church at that time you can see how they started finding important truths like the God head, (3 persons one God). So to say that the are found on anti-tritian is not true but did they had people on both sides at that time because they come from different backgrounds.
Anyway this is really a disappointment interview and really hard to watch theses two miss present the church, its history and points out how they miss understand the Doctrines which is all biblical. I know people in my own church have been there 30 years they will not be able to tell you the fundamentals, it's not a case that you are in the church and now you know what is happening, as many people sleep. These ladies doctrine are blown like wind. But these attacks are expected. Act 24:5 KJV For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: blessing.
I have been attending the SDA church in Mexico and upper MICHIGAN for over a year. I must explore this much deeper because I really do not see the great inconsistencies. To me SDA is the true remnant church which will endure to the end. God protect and guide us. JESUS IS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
I was born & raised in the movement. I Left and heard the gospel for the first time about five years ago. Please do your research! Don’t be convinced by the kind and beautiful people or the culture. Please learn real whole church history and orthodoxy- meaning the unchanging foundations of a Christian faith. Not what the SDA church teaches you about church history. Also please know and believe that Jesus Christ life death and resurrection is a complete atonement for your sins past present and future and that your salvation wholly and truly rest in Him.
Can’t be the remnant because sda church gives authority to Ellen g white.
I see a lot of SDA gaslighting in the comments. Great episode, looking forward to the next.
My mom would be crushed if I show her this podcast.
I go to SDA church. It doesn’t surprise me people nay saying. The SDA church I go to is actually the most normal church I’ve ever been to. I’ve been to every type of church as well and SDA
Follow the
Bible. These
Two should
Consider that maybe it’s
Just the
Church
They went
To
Amd
Not
All of SDA
Same
@@featheredfriend1310You can't get away from Ellen white in the Sabbath school it's in the literature world wide. They also teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel. It was in one of the Sabbath school books.
@@SFayeLewis I’ve not seen it but will be on the look out for what you shared with me. I tried to go back to church on Sunday and that’s not sitting well with me.
I don’t understand why it matters if Ellen G White is mentioned or not. To me she’s just like any other Christian Author/publisher. Besides, no one wants to quote someone without bringing up the original author
@@featheredfriend1310 I don't feel right going to church on Sunday either I still keep Sabbath I just don't go to any sda church anymore unless it's for a wedding/ funeral/ other. I go to a Seventh day Baptist Church still doing my research on them now
(9:11) just a gentile reminder that all genuine followers of Christ have been labelled a cult/sect/heresy as pointed out by Paul and recorded by Dr Luke the gentile historian in
NLT
Acts 24:14“But I admit that I follow the Way, which they call a cult.
I worship the God of our ancestors, and I firmly believe the Jewish law and everything written in the prophets.
15I have the same hope in God that these men have, that he will raise both the righteous and the unrighteous.
16Because of this, I always try to maintain a clear conscience before God and all people.
NKJV
Acts14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect,
so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
15I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
16This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.
KJV
14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy,
so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
So don’t think that this that you do is a new thing, it’s not! And btw the way that you know that Seventh-day Adventists are Gods remnant is by examining the historical timeline in Revelation 10:11
The message we are commissioned to teach as the everlasting gospel (Revelation 14:6-12)
The fact that we have the gift of prophecy in our midst (Revelation 12:17; 19:10)
The biblical doctrines that we teach in harmony with what Christ taught (Luke 24:27) and commissioned Saul of Tarsus/Paul to teach to the gentiles (Galatians 2:8) as Peter taught it to the Jews as pointed out in (Acts 24:14-16)
That we are the only “Tota sola scriptura” (the whole Bible only) Protestant Christian denomination upholding the original Bible doctrines of Christ as the Protestant reformers did, not having forgotten our Protestant roots (Psalm 119:105)
If you can find another movement that fits the criteria then join them but until you can do so know this, that the Seventh-day Adventists and not the orthodox believers is the flock into which God is calling you today (John 10:16) choose you this day whom you will serve (Joshua 24:15; 2 Corinthians 6:2)
I was actually doubting that SDA was a cult until I read the last sentence of your comment, and it made me realize there really is some thought control going on there. "Us vs them" thinking is a major thought control device.
It's also true of every Christian based cult to find some new or changed rule and make it super important.
So after reading your response specifically, I'm more convinced SDA is a cult. Thank you for shining the light on it.
Ellen G. White, whatever her shortcomings, is a collective center of people who call themselves Seventh-day Adventists. If religion’s role in society is to bind people through the power of utterance or writings, Ellen white has already accomplished that goal. She may not have united all Christians but Mrs. White has significantly helped to create a community of millions of the faithful. She gave encouragement to people who were deeply disappointed following the failure of William Miller’s prophecies. In that way, she has served humanity. As a Baha’i interested in human unity, I celebrate Mrs. White’s achievement.
The problem is that her and her husband's teachings lead to people calling themselves remnant and dooming everyone to hell, including Bahai faith practitioners like yourself. She was also a massive hypocrite who ate pork and oysters while telling her followers to not do so, and to only buy her books (which allowed the Whites to become millionaires). The denomination was founded as a grift and a grift it is.
I'm not Adventist but I believe alot in there doctrine like keeping the commandments and that death is a sleep those are biblical
In Revelation it’s those who keep the testimony of Christ and who keep God’s commandments that make it to the first resurrection.
@Ben Z the bible clear were not saved by the law we keep the law because we love God and the holy spirt moves us away from sin but we're saved by grace through faith
@@benz8421 Yes, Adventist in fact preach and do that keep the testimony of Christ and who keep God’s commandments
Can't wait for the Episode 2.
52:45 Systematic benevolence was developed by JN Andrews and a team through study of the word, not Ellen White.
I'm a X-JW, born again Christian. Thank you for this video.
35 minutes in. Fascinating stuff. How they clearly state that the churches doctrines were developed through bible study yet somehow still laying it at Ellen Whites feet.
Dear friends
I am SDA. I was raised SDA. I struggled with the SDA message for some time but through study and prayer I intellectually continue in this faith and not with “blind devotion. It is my prayer you will with open mind read what I have to say in response to these episodes.
The first question I have is why are these “SDA experts” featured? Why is not a current SDA member on the panel for discussion? Over the years I’ve been exposed to individuals such as these ladies and rarely can an objective discussion ensue due to overwhelming bias. In fact the majority of the “facts” presented here are skewed to fit their narrative. Where is the balance? It is clear the Apologia hosts have already made up their minds before the conversation could even give anyone the opportunity to make an informed decision? Where are the biblical texts to back up the information presented? Where are the historical documents?
We should have learned over the past few years,in particular, that ad hominem,“character” attacks should alert to the fact something is amiss; this is exactly what’s going on here.
It should also be noted that anyone who’s “ministry” is for the primary purpose of discrediting a group might ought to raise some eyebrows as well. Aren’t there usually two sides to a story?
For instance they call attention to “insider” Sabbath school lessons and other written materials. The sole purpose for this is to make it seem secret or insider or cultish; these “experts” would have you believe there is some conspiratorial information ONLY for SDAs. I find this laughable. A simple Google search and you’ll find this “insider” information. The fact is anyone can acquire these items at adventistbookcenter.com/ and most of it on Amazon; not so insider…
These “experts” would have you believe Adventists hold some distorted view of the soul when in fact we hold the biblical view of soul sleep. (Ecc. 9:5) www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4987/t/are-the-dead-really-dead-
They would have you believe the Sabbath doesn’t matter. (Ex 20:8-11). They poke fun at the idea of a great controversy between Christ and Satan. But doesn’t the Bible introduce such an idea in Genesis 3:1? Did God really say? (Questioning God’s authority); What about Satan presenting himself in the councils of God regarding Job (Is anyone loyal to God?) Job 1:6-12); Lucifer wanting to ascend to the heavens (Be like the Most High) Isa. 14:14; The temptations of Christ (who will you worship?) Matt 4:1-11; Or how about Michael and his angels? (physical battle) Rev 12:7. Do these not at least allude to a struggle? Paul admonishes us not to forget we do not fight against flesh and blood (Eph 6:12). What about Christ sweating as it were great drops of blood in Gethsemane? Is that only from physical strain or perhaps He’s become the Sacrifice and the sins of the world are laid upon His head? Lk 22:44
There is spiritual battle. 1 Peter 5:8-9.
Again I ask is it too hard to believe in a controversy between Christ and Satan? If that’s not too much of a stretch then ask yourself why do these experts along with the hosts of Cultish poke fun; ad hominem.
I would suggest reading The Great Controversy for yourself with Bible in hand.
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/132.2?ss=eyJwYXJhbXMiOnsicXVlcnkiOiJUaGUgZ3JlYXQgY29udHJvdmVyc3kgIiwibGFuZyI6ImVuIn0sInNnX2luZGV4IjoiMCJ9#2
They would have you believe William Miller came up with a “theory” of a day for a year to back up his end time predictions. A day for a year is not his “theory” but is in fact supported by the Bible itself. 1844madesimple.org/year-day-principle/
Another point. Does not Apologia Church hold to sola scriptura ( I’m not trying to attack this church; the question needs to be asked)?
If so then why do it’s pastors not teach Sabbath observance? Did not God say, “Remember the Sabbath day…? (Ex 20:8-11) Is there any biblical text(s) giving evidence to authority to remember the Sunday? Did Christ come to abolish the law or fulfill it? (Matt 5:17-20) Which law did he come to fulfill? Is Christ not the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? (Rev 13:8); Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system. He did not nail the Decalogue to the cross.
Jesus has identified His faithful remnant as those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:17).
He did not say keep part or almost or do away with one of the commandments or it’s okay to keep a human tradition ( because it commemorates His resurrection)…no He has said if you love me keep commandments. (Jn 14:15). Nowhere in my Bible is there mention of commemorating His resurrection day on Sunday. I am not admonished in my Bible anywhere to honor a man made custom in lieu of. I just can’t find it anywhere and if evidence can be shown to the contrary I’d happily keep Sunday if that is God’s command.
So why do Protestants keep Sunday? By what authority? Where is the command found? These questions need to be asked.
Have you looked at the history regarding Sunday keeping? Do some digging.
Here’s an interesting article written some time ago. www.practicaprophetica.com/books/atj/romes-challenge-why-do-protestants-keep-sunday/
In fact further historical study regarding the Reformation leads to the Council of Trent. You may be shocked as to what was decided. And this may be hard to read but the council found the Protestant Reformation an unwarranted revolt. Why? Because they claimed the scripture alone as sole authority but Protestants stated in the Augsburg Confession they keep the “Lord’s Day” as appointed by the Church (Catholic). Thus the Council of Trent ruled the Reformation as nothing more than a revolt. And look what happened in October 2016; Protestants have gone into ecumenical council with Pope Francis in effect handling over the what remains of the Reformation. You can read more about here: www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/the-council-of-trent
And: amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/29/reformation-luther-pope-francis-catholics
This is a vast subject and I could say a lot more but please do not take my word for it.
This may discredit everything I’ve said thus far but what’s been presented here is false information and false teachings. These well intending individuals are leading folks down the wrong road. Please. Please. Do your own study. I’ve provide links; you can start there. And I’ll provide a few more resources below.
At the very least read the first chapter of The Desire of Ages, entitled, God with Us. Use your Bible compare this chapter with scripture . I challenge you to see if this is “cultish”. If that’s not convincing enough read the whole book or The Great Controversy along with your Bible. There’s no insider, secret information here. Read and study for yourself. m.egwwritings.org/en/book/130.21#21
Resources:
www.practicaprophetica.com/books/atj/romes-challenge-why-do-protestants-keep-sunday/
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/132/toc
rumble.com/vmod4z-wup-66-futurism-dispensationalism-antichrist-and-mark-of-the-beast-indonesi.html
Did you mention the fundamental beliefs and vows? And how egw writings are placed EQUAL to scripture....
Let's see here 🧐...
Vow #8: "I ACCEPT the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the IDENTIFYING MARKS of the REMNANT CHURCH."
Now let's see what fundamental belief #18 has to say about the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH 🤔....
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF #18
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH and was MANIFESTED in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE.
(SO.... here we see that as a member of the REMNANT CHURCH you MUST vow to ACCEPT the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH which was MANIFESTED in ELLEN G WHITES writings)
Now let's see what the spirit of prophecy herself has to to say about her writings....
ELLEN G WHITE:
We "MUST" follow the directions given through the spirit of prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
@KING2RETURN
My comments present sources, "smarty"....the official SDA statements of beliefs.
You on the other hand can't seem to produce not "ONE".
But I get it, you can't back your claims up.. so you point in a different direction attempting to distract the situation 🥱.... typical troll activity.
@KING2RETURN
I already presented the official SDA statements of beliefs (sources)...
So are you going to easily refute me, or continue to talk like a genius?
Last I checked the apostles DEBATED against those teaching a different gospel and ultimately died for doing so in the name of Jesus, against unreasonable people....
Yet here you are responding for that third time running around the bush, like the coward you are.
Like I said.... trolls are exposed by refusing to debate.
Anyone can drop a bunch of links and expect others to read through all that material like it means something....
Few will bring the source and HIGHLIGHT the power points that contradict the entire system.
I've specifically pointed to two statements that contradict the entire SDA church.....yet the coward in you can't produce a response based on sources directly from the fundamentals that refute me.....I understand, you can't, plain and simple.
So your next response will be full of baseless opinions with One statement to back anything up
@KING2RETURN
Nice, you've totally refuted me on this one 😏..
For providing a perfect example of what a troll is, responding with this 👆
Not one source to justify anything, just saying that my information is wrong without any form of justification.
Typical 😏🥱
@KING2RETURN
So then the answer is yes, Ellen G White's writings are to be held EQUAL to scripture. At least you admitted it.
Placing her writings EQUAL to scripture 😏 SMH
The only thing, is that she took the writings of others DENIED doing it and claimed it all came directly from God. Which is against Deuteronomy 18:20
ELLEN G WHITE:
And here I would state that although I am dependent upon the Spirit of the Lord in writing my views as I am in receiving them, yet the words I employ in describing what I have seen ARE MY OWN, unless they be those spoken to me by an angel, which I always enclose in marks of quotation." (Review and Herald, Oct. 8, 1867)
LET'S CONTINUE....
WHITE ESTATES:
The great bulk of her comments deal only with the divine source of her material and tend to deny the influence of human thought and opinion. And, thus, while we have no problem with the fact that Mrs. White did borrow, we do wonder why she appears to have DENIED her borrowing."
Ron Graybill, Associate in the White Estate, Nov 1981 speaking to the Adventist Forum Board
LET'S CONTINUE......
James White:
"If Mrs. White has gathered the facts from a human mind in a single case she has in thousands of cases, and God has not shown her these things which she has written in these personal testimonies." (James White, Life Sketches (1880),
These ladies are spot on with what they say about the SDA church. I was a 3rd generation SDA, educated in the SDA schools and a local elder. I knew SDA theologians like Ed Thiele, I took Des Ford's class on Daniel at PUC. I left Adventism 22 years ago because of theology and have no regrets about leaving.
What is spot on about it? I’m a fifth generation SDA on my Dad’s side and sixth generation on my mom’s side. I heard misinformation and smears.
@@dr.g1482 be specific. Just one example and an explanation on why it false out a smear.
@@kupagaming5643 for starters they claim SDAs don’t believe in the trinity and divinity of Jesus and that is a lie. Jesus is one with the Father. They claim that we believe God has a body which is not true unless they are actually are using a smoke and mirrors trick. We believe Jesus became flesh as John says and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is God one with the Father and Holy Spirit. I guess they believe everyone that listens to their podcast is not going to do the research. Those lies are in the first 10 minutes.
@@kupagaming5643 smears to start with was calling EGW a cash cow. Read the Desire of the Ages. You will realize what fallacious lies have been spouted here.
@@dr.g1482 Thanks for your response. I know These two ladies - on the Trinity they say the SDA started as non tritarian and now have a version of Trinity that is not the orthodox version. If you research in the Andrews University library you will find a document called EG White and God, one, two or three by Denis Fortin. Also watch RC Sproul on Trinity freely available on UA-cam and the. Compare with the God Head theology of the SDA and you will see some differences. On God having a body - read the fundamental beliefs book on the subject and it will be apparent. Also here is a quotation from the SDA prophet in vision: I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus’ countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, “If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist.” Source: m.egwwritings.org/en/book/28.389 . End of Quote. Here is another reference for the evolution and current understanding of Trinity by the SDA: www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2012/04/ellen-white-and-the-personhood-of-the-holy-spirit. Let me know when you have checked EGW’s quote and compared SDA’s Trinity doctrine with orthodoxy as espoused by early fathers like Augustine and also check on the Armenian elements of the current SDA beliefs - use the 28 fundamentals book and all possible Adventist sources.
It appears to me that though these people escaped Adventist doctrine, they haven't escaped the idea that only those with the "correct" theology will make it to heaven.
41:00 I am an Adventist and I am confident in my salvation. I don't think that statement can be made in a general way.
You better repent brother...with that sentence you just blatantly disobeyed Ellen White. “Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, ‘Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.’ Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.)” (COL 155.1) 2.
“We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, ‘I am saved.’ When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, ‘I am saved’ (1SM 314.2).
@@JessicaPottorff030612 She is basically addressing the idea of "once saved always saved". Which is most definitely a dangerous idea as it implies you can blatantly resist the Holy Spirit and live a sinful life, yet still think you are saved because once upon a time you said the sinners prayer... Which clearly denies many Bible verses about being genuinely transformed, repenting and living a new life in Christ. I know people don't like others to say "context!", but we need to keep these statements in context.
1 John 5:13: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
We indeed can know we have eternal life.
(5:07) they didn’t become millerites, they attended the millerite meetings as members of other denominations. Btw the millerites were all called Adventists, quakers, Presbyterians, Seventh-day Baptists, Methodists, abolitionists, Baptists etc.
btw, the word “Adventist” simply means that one believes in the second coming of Christ as all bible believing Protestant Christians do, not excluding Seventh-day Adventists :)
Liar. Ellen and her parents were Millerites who attended the Chestnut street Methodist church in Portland Maine. They were kicked out of the fellowship because they could not control themselves and were continually interrupting the pastor and declaring he did not love the return of Christ, and did not love Jesus. You are a habitual liar.
I believe Jesus came in judgement on Jerusalem and her temple in 70AD just as He prophesied in His Olivet Discourse, this generation shall not pass ..... I’m still looking into a final return at the end of human history..
@@lavieenrose5954 you believe a lie
are you a seventh day adventist?
@@annettemacintosh117
@@annettemacintosh117what do I have to do to go to heaven?
What I love about these two ladies (among other things) is you can see them glancing at each other to see if the other person wants to add something. It's very gracious and shows that they respect each other's input. Just a random observation.
Check out their podcast.
They should have quoted this from Ellen White:
The Lord designs to warn you, to reprove, to counsel, through the testimonies given, and to impress your minds with the importance of the truth of His word. The written testimonies are not to give new light, but to impress vividly upon the heart the truths of inspiration already revealed. Man's duty to God and to his fellow man has been distinctly specified in God's word; yet but few of you are obedient to the light given. Additional truth is not brought out; but God has through the Testimonies simplified the great truths already given and in His own chosen way brought them before the people to awaken and impress the mind with them, that all may be left without excuse. Pride, self-love, selfishness, hatred, envy, and jealousy have beclouded the perceptive powers, and the truth, which would make you wise unto salvation, has lost its power to charm and control the mind. The very essential principles of godliness are not understood because there is not a hungering and thirsting for Bible knowledge, purity of heart, and holiness of life. The Testimonies are not to belittle the word of God, but to exalt it and attract minds to it, that the beautiful simplicity of truth may impress all.
What is their podcast? Looking at the description box to find their names to no avail. This is so great!
@@notonau Former Adventist Podcast
It's always interesting how cults / false religions so often depend upon one person or a few people having some personal experience/vision. Others are supposed to believe them solely on the basis of this personal experience. That should always be a warning bell. What a contrast with biblical Christianity! Biblical Christianity is not based on one person or a few people having subjective experiences. It's based upon the Bible, which consists of 66 books, written by multiple authors, from various backgrounds, in different locations, over a couple thousand years, in Hebrew, Greek, & I believe some Aramaic. It's rooted in geography, history, and fulfilled prophecy. And it's one cohesive, consistent narrative from beginning to end. That speaks to its supernatural origin. Such a thing would be impossible to pull off if it was just from human origin!
The only reason that you would you would include JWs here is because of the lies of people like our hosts. The FACT of the matter is that JWs have always been cessationists believing in closed canon we do not now nor have at any time regarded our leaders as prophets or saints or infallible, you will not find any buildings named after men or any commemorative statues or bust of any man hero worship is totally alien to JW culture the Lord JEHOVAH is our hero.
A counter argument you might hear for this: the Bible itself was created through personal revelations (the authors were inspired and moved by the Holy Spirit to speak the word of God). Exceptions could perhaps be Moses having the witness of the entire Jewish nation, and the Apostles having hundreds of witnesses to the risen Christ, but the majority of Scripture was from personal revelation. God authenticated Scripture through miracles and fulfilled prophecies, so it is very difficult to make this sort of argument without relying heavily on cessationism, which is also quite difficult to argue for. When properly understood, cessationist doctrine is fairly solid and convincing, but it's also extremely nuanced, and is often too complicated for people to understand.
Thankfully, as far as I know, all of these false Christian religions shoot themselves in the foot with various failed prophecies, and by promoting strange doctrines which contradict Scripture. I do love what you said about the miraculous nature of Scriptrue though. Not trying to be discouraging. God bless!
Like I said JWs believe that all prophesying ended with the apostles of Christ and their contemporaries we base our beliefs exclusive on the bible. That is why we are named after the most high God JEHOVAH and not any man. That is why you would never find any commemorative statues or portraits of any man or any building named after any man on any church property. JEHOVAH is our hero and not any man. I am one hundred percent confident that I can defend my beliefs Sola scriptural.
@@aservantofJEHOVAH7849, okay, I'll bite. The NWT translates John 1:1-3 this way: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."
Even with such a blasphemous translation, these verses still refute the JW teaching that Jesus was created. "ALL things came into existence through him (Jesus), and apart from him (Jesus) NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence."
If all created things came into existence through Jesus, and no created things came into existence apart from Jesus, then it is a logical impossibility for Jesus to be something created that came into existence. The text clearly says that everything created was brought into existence by Jesus, and that nothing was created, or brought into existence, without Jesus creating it.
I'm very curious to see the mental gymnastics required to believe the opposite of what your scripture says. I bet it starts with questioning what the text actually says (Gen. 3:1), and then proposing a new idea completely alien to the text, which also happens to contradict the text (Gen. 3:4).
I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ delivers you from false teaching.
No mental gymnastics are required Cory only an adherence to scriptural precedent. For instance genesis3:20KJV"20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of ALL living." Likely you are not as quick to make a hard and fast application of your interpretative logic here. The bible routinely uses the word all with sensible exceptions,even as we do in every day speech. The verse uses a construction that is NEVER used of JEHOVAH when referring to his role in creation. It says that all things were created through(dia) from which we get word diameter the logos this denotes that the logos was not the originator of the information and energy manifest in the creation but JEHOVAH's chosen instrument in applying his power and wisdom.
John1:17KJV"17For the law was given by (dia)Moses, ...." Obviously Moses was not the originator of the law but he was JEHOVAH's chosen intermediary in conveying it to the ancient Hebrews. Contrast that to the Bible's depiction of the role of the God and Father of Jesus in creation
Acts17:24KJV"(the)God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that HE is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; "
Revelation4:11KJV"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
Denoting that he is the originator of all the information and energy manifest in the creation. We observe though that he uses earlier creations as raw materials or instrumentalities to produce later ones the logos is the point at which this process began.
(15:51- 16:06) indeed a huge following and this second great awakening was not limited to the baptist farmer/lay preacher William Miller in New England America alone, it happened in England and in Europe as well as anticipation grew not limited to Millers views alone but in other parts of the world also the common belief was that Jesus would return to cleanse the sanctuary which the majority believed was the earth, so targeting William Miller for getting it wrong is rather biased especially when we consider how the disciples got it wrong centuries prior thinking that Jesus has come to earth to deliver Israel from the Roman yoke and set up His earthly kingdom - hear Jesus in Luke 24:22 say to them after the event
25… “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He [g]expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Does anyone actually register the similarities?
Seventh-day Adventists who are baptized believers in Adventist doctrine (28 Beliefs) are not Christian. Adventism teaches doctrines which are cursed in the bible. For example, the Adventist gospel message of 3 Angels Messages is not found in the bible and according to Gal. 1:6-9 this gospel is cursed. A church which preaches a gospel which is cursed is not Christian. Adventism is not Christian and not part of the larger Protestant Christian community.
Galatians 1:6-9: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Why are you calling the larger Protestant community Christain?
According to you, anyone who believes in the Ten Commandments can not be a Christian.
You have proved that the Ten Commandments do not exist.
But every Protestant church in the larger Protestant community believes and teaches that the Ten Commandments do exist.
Therefore, according to your own teaching, every Protestant church in the larger Protestant community can not be and is not Christian.
So why are you calling the larger Protestant community "Christian"?
@@glenwillson5073 Please read with accuracy. You have not read my comment above with understanding and your comment is a classical non sequitur
@@AcademyApologia
I will take your advice and try to read with more accuracy.
Ok, did you really call the larger Protestant community Christian?
Let's see now, I will read again more carefully, here we go;
"... the larger Protestant Christian community."
Nope, I still can't understand where I am inaccurate.
Perhaps if I try reading more slowly, here we go;
"... the ----- larger ---- Protestant ---- Christian ---- community."
Nope, that didn't work.
Sorry, I'm still just not understanding.
Perhaps you would be gracious and explain to me where I am not reading with accuracy.
That would be helpful.
Hopefully I can do better and understand the classic nature of my non-sequitur without your help. I will try my best.
Here I go, wish me luck!
+T = Believe Ten Commandments exist
-T = Believe Ten Commandments do not exist
C = Christian
P = Protestant
if +T then not C (your premise)
(P & +T) = P not C (my conclusion)
Sorry, I just can't seem to understand where my conclusion that :-
IF Protestants(P) believe in the existence of the Ten Commandments(+T) THEN Protestants(P) are not Christians(C)
is a non-sequitur.
I know it's asking a lot, but perhaps you would be so gracious as to explain where my logic breaks down here also.
That would be helpful as well.
@@glenwillson5073 You still do not know how to read with understanding. My comment above is critical of the Seventh-day Adventist gospel message and you are free to defend this gosple message.
@@AcademyApologia I thought, it only fair, that since you seem to have a pathological obsession with the SDAs, I should at least have a look to see what all the fuss is about.
(did an SDA person pee in your front garden or something to cause you such long lasting PTSD?)
You did say - "My comment above is critical of the Seventh-day Adventist gospel message and you are free to defend this gospel message." so I thought I would take you at your word.
Don't know about defending anything but it's always good to know stuff. I'm even interested to know what the Protestant Pagans believe the gospel is. You could probably fill me in on that one.
You have said that, "The Adventist gospel message of three angles messages is not found in the bible."
Well I found three angles and they all seem to be saying something so I can only suppose some sort of message is involved:
Rev 14:
6 And I saw another angel ....
7 Saying ....
8 And there followed another angel, saying, ....
9 And the third angel followed them, saying ....
Not really sure why you can't find them?
So the score for now is SDA = 1 You = 0
I take it there must be more to the story?
According to Wikipedia; almost all of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs are the same as other evangelical Protestant denominations. (that's you old son)
And I also noticed that they believe in theTrinity.
The Trinity thing scarred the pants off me. I thought, no way! The SDAs are going full Babylonian Mystery Religion. Who would have thought!
But this must make you feel a bit warm & fuzzy towards them, surely.
I’m so glad y’all got Colleen from FAF, their stuff is so good!
NO, Colleen TInker and Dale Ratzlaff are WRONG and I am writing a book to prove everything they claim is FALSE and I document everything.
I’ve been waiting so long for this! Thank you for taking this on! Do I have to wait another week for the next show?!
Meaning?
6:00 The idea that Adventists believe that Humans have no spirit separate from the body is not true.
Sort of true. It is different than the Catholic interpretation. Good comments btw. Thanks
They think your spirit is just the breath of life God blew into Adam which it also is, but they don't see it as a distinct part of the anatomy of a human being the way Paul describes it when he says the spirit wars against the flesh. They also don't understand the soul and how its not the spirit, a lot of spiritual things seem foolish to them because there still carnal minded trying to justify themselves by the law.
This is not true,
I had no idea. Thanks the information.
I'm not SDA but I do believe the Sabbath is an eternal commandment for all. Read end of Isaiah 66.
When i was young in my faith and very zealous to root out false prophets, i remember finding one of Ellen G White writings and setting out to prove she was a false prophet. I at least wanted to see for myself and not believe what everyone else said but to try her myself.
I remember skimming through a paragraph trying to find something off. I didn't. Then i skimmed through a few more and the more i read the more i became convicted. All i seen in her writings was Jesus. I was floored. I ended up buying a Spirit of Prophecy book and my life was never the same.
I am not an SDA member but I do believe in the Seventh Day Sabbath and I am looking forward to the Second Advent of Christ. I do subscribe to the wise counsel in her writings but the bible is my chief study.
This is what she says about the bible in one quote:
The word of God is to stand as the highest educating book in our world, and is to be treated with reverential awe. It is our guidebook; we shall receive from it the truth. We need to present the Bible as the great lesson book to place in the hands of our children and youth, that they may know Christ, whom to know aright is life eternal. It is the book to be studied by those of middle age, and those who are aged. The word contains promises, warnings, encouragement, and assurances of the love of God to all who accept Him as their Saviour. Then place the holy word in their hands. Encourage them to search the word, and they will in so doing find hidden treasures of inestimable value to them in this present life, and in receiving Christ as the bread of life they have the promise of eternal life. FE 384.2
Here is a writing of hers about Jesus in the Desire of Ages:
Jesus knows us individually, and is touched with the feeling of our infirmities. He knows us all by name. He knows the very house in which we live, the name of each occupant. He has at times given directions to His servants to go to a certain street in a certain city, to such a house, to find one of His sheep. DA 479.3
Every soul is as fully known to Jesus as if he were the only one for whom the Saviour died. The distress of every one touches His heart. The cry for aid reaches His ear. He came to draw all men unto Himself. He bids them, “Follow Me,” and His Spirit moves upon their hearts to draw them to come to Him. Many refuse to be drawn. Jesus knows who they are. He also knows who gladly hear His call, and are ready to come under His pastoral care. He says, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” He cares for each one as if there were not another on the face of the earth.
As an SDA, I've never heard these teachings.
I have SDA friends and am familiar with their teachings. I don't agree with the beliefs concerning E.G. White, and because of this, I do not attend the SDA church. But that said, in my discussions with members, never have I heard these teachings about the spirit or disbelief in the Trinity, as an example. This makes no sense, because the SDA church baptises in the name of Trinity, and their hymnbook has songs with mention of the Trinity. "Holy, Holy, Holy" is one of them. I don't know what these people on the show are talking about - at least where those points are concerned.
There are many who will attack SDA. It’s just the sign of the times.
@@CraigRadala
It's a sign that they the SDA church has been exposed.
Quit trying to deflect.
The bible talks about false prophets, but sda's always leave that verse out, for their own benefit
@@faitheternal3015 The church does believe in the Trinity. Now its true that in the 19th century some members denounced which led to a series of conferences which led to the church accepting that yes the Trinity is biblical and we have followed that belief ever since
@@carlosmedina1281 OK...but why tell me this? I did not say the SDA church rejects the Trinity.
Excellent explanations. I was a member of Worldwide Church of God. I read Proclamation! magazine a while due to this. Some of the materials were helpful but it is really a different belief system in many ways. Both came out of the Restoration movement, though.
i hope you can come out of babylon and enter the 3 angles message group as Jesus says babyllon fell When? IN RE 14 when the sanctuary message was given Who gave a sanctuary judgment message ? William Miller
Did you leave before or after Herbert W. Armstrong died?
@@quest380 I attended as a child until age 12 with my mother. I was allowed to stop attending by my father ( a non-member). I started attending again in 1985 as a young adult. Armstrong died in early 1986. I continued to attend WCG until about 2000.
Here's 2 quotes of Ellen G White 🙂🙏🙏🙏
"The greatest want of the world is the want of men-men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall."
Ellen G. White "Education Ch 7 Paragraph 20"🙂🙏🙏🙏
"Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His.
“With His stripes we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5."
Ellen G White
The Desire of Ages 🙂🙏🙏🙏
She never differs one iota from the King James Version of the Bible 🙂🙏🙏🙏
Ellen White contradicts the Bible over 50 times. Here are two examples:
“Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, ‘Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.’ Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.)” (COL 155.1) 2.
“We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, ‘I am saved.’ When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, ‘I am saved’ (1SM 314.2).
And here are two more:
Did pre-flood humans mate with animals and give birth to new sub-human species and races?
EGW: YES "But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere" (Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 64).
EGW: YES "Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men" (Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 75).
BIBLE: NO Gen 1:24 - 25 (NIV) 24And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Five times in these two verses God states that animals can only reproduce according "to their own kinds." Horses cannot mate with birds and produce offspring -- neither can humans mate with monkeys and produce offspring. Even SDA scientists and the Ellen White Estate admit EGW was simply wrong.
Was the tower of Babel built before the flood?
EGW: YES "This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel" (Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 301).
BIBLE: NO Gen 9:28, 11:4 (NIV) 28After the flood ... they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth"
Note: This was one of the first EGW contradictions that SDAs found and corrected. They claimed it was just a typographical error, forgetting that EGW claimed the "very word" she wrote came from God!
When writing these precious books, if I hesitated, the very word I wanted to express the idea was given to me (Selected Messages, vol. 3, pp. 51,52). 1907).
I am just as dependent upon the Spirit of the Lord in relating or writing the vision as in having the vision (Spiritual Gifts, vol. 2, p. 293).
@@JessicaPottorff030612
These first two quotes are spot on accurate. I have some personal experience with what EGW describes.
@@JessicaPottorff030612 Your accusations around the amalgamation of animals and beasts seems to revolve around your inability to understand English. You're implying what isn't there.
@@JessicaPottorff030612
I need to look into the Babel quotes but if your other accusations are systemic of the type of accusations you're making I assume your also wrong on the Babel quote.
We are so blessed, my brothers and sisters in Christ. So blessed. There but for the grace of God go I....
The guiding angel of Ellen g white is the angel of darkness,(2SG 18.2) my guide opened the door and I passed out.then all things I had left at the door he handed me again.and he also handed me a green cord,coiled up,and he bid me wear it next in my heart,and when I wish to see Jesus (Yahushua in Hebrew),to stretch this cord.i must not it lie still any legth of time,for I should it,it would become knotted and difficult to straighten.i place the cord near in my heart,and joyfully went down the narrow stairway,praising the Lord as I went.and telling all I meet where they could find jesus.i then awoke.(the question is if we want to see our savior we will use the green cord?).the cord magic used in witch craft.
Thank you very much brothers and sisters, watching this video from Zambia Gwembe in particular
Apologia Studios had been such a huge blessing and one of my favourite subscriptions. However, the approach to scrutinising Adventism on this episode is frankly disappointing.
Apologia Studios should have questioned presently acclaimed Adventists scholars/pastors/any Adventist representative who is well-versed in its history and fundamental beliefs and then allow it’s audience to decide whether such a denomination/organisation is a cult.
In any strong and balanced argument, after the right questions have been asked and considered, the purpose of the writer/producer is often implicated by the questions asked as integral to the scrutiny process…
By having guests who are deemed “ex-Adventists” on the onset already assumes and conclusively implies/assert that the SDA church is indeed an occult.
Perhaps what would’ve been better is to have both ex and present adventist/s who are literate in it’s church history and doctrines be guests in this episode…this would’ve been a more reasonable discourse.
Amen
That has been done before and Walter Martin was upset when he realized the Adventist expert and scholar was disingenuous which caused a historical SDA alot of angst !
Not only is it weird to see a dating site promoted here, but to see this on an episode featuring 7th Day Adventism.
They call it a "denomination."
"Anyone is welcome to use Higher Bond! That being said, some of the more popular denominations include:
Anglican/Episcopal
Assemblies of God
Baptist
Catholic
Congregational/Continental
Lutheran
Mennonite/Anabaptist
Messianic
Methodist
Non-Denominational
Orthodox
Other
Pentecostal
Presbyterian
Protestant
Seventh-Day Adventist"
Where did you see a dating site promoted ?
It's a Christian dating site.. The word denomination doesn't change anything.
@@zer.o In this video. Starts about 12:06
@@ureasmith3049 And SDA is not a Christian denomination. It's a different religion. Which is bad enough. But to promote this site on a video specifically speaking about SDA is even worse!
@@Yesica1993 I agree SDA not Christian and a different religion. I'm not sure what the Christian dating site has to do with it. It was just a sponsor of the Cultish podcast.
(9:23-58) The Christian Connection was a Christian movement in the United States of America that developed in several places during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, composed of members who separated from other Christian denominations namely the Baptists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, and Methodists.
It was influenced by settling the frontier as well as the formation of the new United States and its separation from Great Britain.
The Christian Connection professed no creed, instead relying strictly on the Bible.
In practice, members coalesced around shared theological concepts such as an Arminian theological anthropology (doctrine of human nature), a rejection of the Calvinist doctrine of election, and an autonomous church government.
The Connection's periodical, the Herald of Gospel Liberty (first published on September 1, 1808), was among the first religious journals published in the United States.
They later merged with the National Council of the Congregational Churches, to become the Congregational Christian Church. They then merged with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, and became the United Church of Christ….
Through the 1830s and 1840s, practical difficulties associated with the movement's attempt at radical reform led to an erosion of the anti-organizational principles developed by Jones, Smith and others…
Many of the movement's publications were produced by the Christian Publishing Association, based in Dayton, Ohio…
A disproportionate number of Christian Connection preachers in New England were involved in the eschatological stir fueled by speculations of [Baptist] William Miller.
No fewer than seven of the 16 signatories to the 1840 call for an Adventist general conference were Connection preachers.
Many members left the Connection in the mid-1840s, populating emerging denominations such as the Seventh-day Adventists and the Advent Christians….
The Second Great Awakening was a Protestant religious revival during the early 19th century in the United States.
The Second Great Awakening, which spread religion through revivals and emotional preaching, sparked a number of reform movements.
Revivals were a key part of the movement and attracted hundreds of converts to new Protestant denominations.
The Methodist Church used circuit riders to reach people in frontier locations.
The Second Great Awakening led to a period of antebellum social reform and an emphasis on salvation by institutions.
The outpouring of religious fervor and revival began in Kentucky and Tennessee in the 1790s and early 1800s among the Presbyterians, Methodists and Baptists.
It led to the founding of several well known colleges, seminaries, and mission societies.
Historians named the Second Great Awakening in the context of the First Great Awakening of the 1730s and 1750s and of the Third Great Awakening of the late 1850s to early 1900s…
New religious movements emerged during the Second Great Awakening, such as Adventism, Dispensationalism, and the Latter Day Saint movement.
Like the First Great Awakening a half century earlier, the Second Great Awakening in North America reflected Romanticism characterized by enthusiasm, emotion, and an appeal to the supernatural.
It rejected the skepticism, deism, Unitarianism, and rationalism left over from the American Enlightenment, about the same time that similar movements flourished in Europe.
Pietism was sweeping Germanic countries and evangelicalism was waxing strong in England.
The Second Great Awakening occurred in several episodes and over different denominations; however, the revivals were very similar. As the most effective form of evangelizing during this period, revival meetings cut across geographical boundaries.
The movement quickly spread throughout Kentucky, Indiana, Tennessee, and southern Ohio, as well as other regions of the United States and Canada. Each denomination had assets that allowed it to thrive on the frontier.
The Methodists had an efficient organization that depended on itinerant ministers, known as circuit riders, who sought out people in remote frontier locations. The circuit riders came from among the common people, which helped them establish rapport with the frontier families they hoped to convert.
The Advent Movement emerged in the 1830s and 1840s in North America, and was preached by ministers such as William Miller, whose followers became known as Millerites.
The name refers to belief in the soon Second Advent of Jesus (popularly known as the Second coming) and resulted in several major religious denominations, including Seventh-day Adventists and Advent Christians.
Now Bates was a radical Garrisonian abolitionist.
Unlike some abolitionists who were committed solely to the immediate abolition of slavery and had little interest as to the fate of blacks after that, Bates was also an outspoken advocate for equal rights for the oppressed.
Though there were many notable antecedents, historians often attribute the rise of the immediate abolition movement (“immediatism”) to William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879), who began to publish The Liberator, a weekly paper dedicated to immediatism, in Boston in 1831. One year later, Garrison assisted in organizing the New England Anti-Slavery Society (renamed the Massachusetts Anti-Slavery Society in 1835) and in 1833 he co-founded the American Anti-Slavery Society-the first national society devoted to the immediate abolition of slavery in America. Garrison insisted that true Christians could not support the national government or established churches because they sanctioned slavery through law and fellowshipped with people who upheld the “peculiar institution.” In addition to advocating political and ecclesiastical comeouterism, Garrison’s broad-based peace platform also included promotion of pacifism and equal rights for blacks and women. Bates actively supported all of Garrison’s reforms and defended him publicly during the abolition schism of the late 1830s and early 1840s.
In the early 1830s, before he accepted immediate abolitionism, Bates had been an advocate of colonization. Propagated by the American Colonization Society (ASC), this scheme claimed it would gradually eliminate the problem of slavery by compensating slaveholders for their “property” while also making America white by shipping former slaves (most commonly) back to Africa. Many abolitionists had begun their anti-slavery reform in colonization circles, but beginning in the late 1820s, Garrison began to expose the ASC for what it was: a racist cause that actually perpetuated slavery by directly funding it. As he did so, northerners began to propagandize Garrison as a dangerous threat to national peace and northern respectability.
Joshua V. Himes, a close friend and colleague of Garrison’s, convinced Bates-also Himes’ close friend-that colonization was morally bankrupt and that Garrison had the right solution. But immediatism was a very radical scheme in antebellum America and most northerners scorned Garrisonians and sometimes inflicted violence upon them. In October 1835, for example, Garrison was nearly lynched by an angry mob in Boston. After working closely with Garrison for three years, however, Himes was convinced that it was worth the risk to follow Garrison because he “fearlessly and faithfully” exposed the sin of slavery and exhorted Americans “to an immediate repentance.” In February 1835, as Bates became attracted to Garrisonian abolition, Himes encouraged him to resolve “to support Mr. G. in all his efforts to disenthral [sic] and elevate the colored race.”
Convinced of a newfound moral duty, Bates fervently committed himself to Garrisonian abolition. The Garrisonians also immediately accepted Bates into their circle. Joseph and Prudence Bates regularly hosted traveling abolitionists in their home, including Samuel J. May, one of Garrison’s closest friends and confidants. In fact, in April 1835-barely two months after Bates’ conversion to immediatism-May referred to Bates in The Liberator as “our zealous fellow-laborer, Capt. Joseph Bates.”
Read more at: adventistreview.org/joseph-bates-and-adventisms-radical-roots/
The Christian Connection was not a Christian movement. They were Arian heretics. Fundamentally outside the bounds of being Christian.
This is an amazing podcast. I'm working on a piece about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit and the SDA movement. Thank you!
I went to seven Adventist church when little 6-7 but we stopped going I don’t know why. I am a born again Christian since I was 13 . This is new to me about this Adventist church.
It's new to most Adventist because they're not being honest with their assessment. These people are just expressing the pain they have from Bad experiences in the denomination.
@@jonnbobo liar. Most ex Adventists enjoyed being Adventist. Both women left because the doctrines come from hell. You are the Adventist cheerleader who isn’t an Adventist. You are weird.
The information is rock solid true.
@@jonnbobo you can’t identify one inaccurate comment in the video. Man up- put up- or shut up.
@@rayray4192 this comment thread is full of my comments pointing them out. Try being honest for once
1:03:00 Her comments on what we mean by saved by grace don't deserve a response. Ridiculous and erroneous.
This was very informative. Even though I read Kingdom of the Cults as a kid (yeah, I was weird), I tended to focus more on JWs and Mormons, because I had classmates of those religions. We did have some close neighbors who were SDA, and my mom seemed to embrace them as fellow Christians who just had some different practices. It makes sense, though, because my mom was raised in the Church of God, a Pentecostal offshoot. In fact, I couldn’t help but note the similarities between Mary Ellen White’s “visions” and the shenanigans that modern-day hyper-Charismatic pastors and online “prophets” try and pull.
This is miss information 101. You just wasted your time listening to this. On UA-cam is a movie "tell the world" about sda. Much better.
@@martinduplooy259 Tell the World is produced by the SDA church. Nikki and Colleen were correct. I was SDA from ages 24-52. I read a lot of EGW, my husband was a a generational SDA, went to all of the their schools through 4 years of college, and taught in the SDA school system for 25+ years. The SDA doctrines are unbiblical and EGW is a false prophet.
@@mimiwest3256 it's always been a heart issue and how you want to follow the Lord. They Sabbath is biblical.
@@martinduplooy259 The Sabbath is the sign of the Covenant God made with Israel. This is stated several times in the old Testament.
@@mimiwest3256 yes and they were Abraham's seed, in fact if you are circumcised you are also part of Abraham's seed, and circumcised by the heart is also part of Abraham's seed. So if you repent and baptised and follow Jesus (let him change your character) you are a spiritual Jew. So the Sabbath is a sign between him and you. Hope this is a blessing on to you.
I have a friend who is a Sda and they also do not believe in hell, that you will simply be none existent. So thank you for this series it will help with my witnessing.
They believe in hell but they don't believe people will burn forever and ever.
That’s incorrect, SDAs do believe in hell as the Bible teaches it, so if you would like to offer a scripture then we can discuss it and find out what the Bible has to say about it
@April G death is eternal when you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior, burning eternally iits not and it's against the nature of a loving God with His creation.
@ April G the atonement is accomplished by Christ enduring the penalty meant for us in our stead therefore if the penalty meant for us is eternal conscious torment Jesus' losing his physical body for three days would not suffice ,only his being made to suffer eternally would atone for our sins.
@April G the bible declares that the wages of sin is DEATH not me and that the one who has died is acquitted from sin.
Romans6:23KKV"23For the wages of sin is DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." death is the opposite of life. Just as you did not exist before you were born you will not exist after you die that is the eternal punishment.
Ecclesiastes3:20KJV"20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. "
Romans6:7KJV"For he that is dead is freed from sin."
because he has paid for his sins in full and is liable to no further punishment but to remain dead.
Its starting guys, the falling away. I'm a Hebrew descendant and approve of the SDA message. I'm so grateful I grew up in the church when I was young.
@Joel Villarreal How do you know if a prophet is false? I think Ellen G White was able to communicate spiritually.
@@andrewcampbell3100I agree, EG White was the final prophet and just like the prophets of old , they will try to kill her and her writings ( poor God)
@@romandaigle455 do you have any Bible scripture where God promised to send us a final prophet?
Jesus promised to send us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things (John 14:26)
@@romandaigle455
Hebrews 1:1
Watch Lineage Journey seasons 1 and 2.
That's exactly right, adventism uses double speak.
What do you mean?
Dr G.....doesn't even understand what he means himself....
He's just a troll using another account
@@nicetry620 why are you assuming I’m a man. I’m not btw. What is sin? It should be a simple question.
@@dr.g1482
So now we are going to start the whole pronoun thing 😏.... should have known you were one of those.
Sin is what "YOU" do daily?.....yes or no?
I think her so-called “visions” came from getting hit with a rock as a kid.
Or maybe epileptic seizures or some neurological disorder...
As much as I enjoyed watching the podcast, it has left me with mixed emotions. Firstly, it had reinforced my belief about what I’ve always thought about Adventism. Logically it doesn’t make sense to be part of a religious denomination that has been founded on a wrong prediction and continued on by a person’s vision. Secondly, as much as I would like to show this to my family, who are indoctrinated by Adventism, I’m not able to do so which saddens me. The reason why is because they are so indoctrinated, that if you decide to go up against them, it will only lead to an argument. They always believe that they are in the right. If you attack Ellen White, then you attack the 10 commandments. Everything reverts to the Sabbath with them. When they talk about the 10 commandments, in truth it is a smoke screen for sabbath observance to trap people and convince them that they are wrong. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody like Doug Batchelor or Walter Veith, do a you-tube video to counter act this, once the word gets out. I remember the you-tube video Doug Batchelor did in response to the video that was called How Should Evangelicals View Seventh-Day Adventism? When it came to the subject matter of Ellen White, as much as he tried to play it down, he was clearly annoyed. He then tried to play the victim by saying how it was not fair, how Adventism was portrayed like that when it came to the subject matter. His quote was as follows-: “Here is another thing that they say, and I hear it all the time, that we put Ellen White on a par or a level playing field with scripture, or we have to interpret the bible through her writings.” Luckily a gentleman by the name of E.J. Lauriston a former SDA pastor and author of the books hiding in plain sight Vol 1,2 & 3, did a video to counteract this and exposed him for being a liar. With regards to those books, I proudly own a copy of Volume 1 and have to read it in private to avoid family conflicts. Like your podcast, it is an eye opener and I would recommend it to anybody who either wants to leave Adventism, or wants to know about Adventism before making a decision about it.
A failed prediction? They studied the Bible, had the time correct, had the message correct, but had the event wrong. Jesus’ own disciples had the time right (Mk. 1:15) and the message right but had the event wrong (Jesus wasn’t coming to set up an earthly kingdom yet, but was coming to die for sins and establish the kingdom of grace). In fact after the crucifixion, the disciples suffered a terrible disappointment because of this misunderstanding of the event. Until the truth was revealed to them. So if that’s your biggest criticism of the SDA Church then you are also criticizing Christianity at large.
Watch “Babylon to America” that’s all Ellen G white is saying. If you understand that then boom that’s all God wanted to say, now just focus on Jesus and your relationship with Him. The reason your family are so earnest about the Sabbath is not cause they’re legalistic it’s because they actually know their Bible teaches James 2:10. “Sunday is our mark of authority …. The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (The Catholic Record of London, Ontario, Sept. 1, 1923). By keeping Sunday, Protestants submit to the Vatican’s authority over them. SDA are here to tell people not just as Protestants that Pope do be the Anti- but that Sabbath is Saturday. Just like Luther in His time found the Biblical truth that was suppressed by the Catholics that we are a “royal priesthood ” we don’t need to go through priests to forgive our sins we can go directly to God, or how the Baptists found out that we must be born again. And so many more Protestants reformations. Watch Blueprint by Ivor Myers. If you feel the same way you do right now, leave the SDA church, but don’t leave Jesus and His words cause He is what matters. “Love conquers a multitude of sins”
Keep praying for them brother. Walk out your faith in love, spirit and in truth. All that's hidden in darkness will be exposed to the light. Be strong and courageous your God, Jesus walks with you.
@@MrGoodrat Show me in the bible the date of October 22 1844. Everything you need to know about God/Jesus can be found in the bible, so in theory , that date should be in there too.
@@christoffdeklerk1909 The thing with SDA's is that they do things in an insidious manner. They scapegoat, scaremonger and brainwash people. When they preach the message, they have an heir of arrogance and are patronizing and condescending about other denominations. It's all about Ellen White and perfection when the point of the matter is that not everybody in the bible was so. People in the bible had flaws. Most of their preachers will lead you into a false sense of security. They will talk about their past before finding God and quote the bible which is OK. After about 15 minutes in, you will hear either 1 of the 3 terms, Ellen White, the title of 1 of her books, or the most common and most subliminal way of mentioning her, spirit of prophecy. I'm not leaving Jesus, but you've got to be open minded when reading scripture, and not be blinkered by Ellen White's influence, believing that everything she says is gospel. The truth of the matter is that she is the number 1 common denominator as to why people leave Adventism.
The information is getting more accurate. Really appreciate that they are correctly stating the history
You could bash the SDA church and Ellen G. White all you want, but you can't bash the fact that God's 7th Day Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday. The Catholic Church even says, "People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventist, and keep Saturday holy." (St Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995)
Nice attempting to deflect from exposing the sda church, while bashing the Catholic Church.
How about you tell us when the sabbath was COMMANDED and to whom?
Go ahead we'll wait ⏳
(29:20) Seventh day Adventists are NOT Millerites remember that! We are a completely different people a movement moving forward with the message as God unfolds it, we are not a church stuck in the teachings of human leaders, our Leader is Christ alone, we SDAs follow Him so remember that fact!
The subject of the sanctuary was the key which unlocked the mystery of the disappointment of 1844. It opened to view a complete system of truth, connected and harmonious, showing that God's hand had directed the great advent movement and revealing present duty as it brought to light the position and work of His people see Hebrews 9 and Revelation 10
Christ had come, not to the earth, as they expected, but, as foreshadowed in the type, to the most holy place of the temple of God in heaven. He is represented by the prophet Daniel as coming at this time to the Ancient of Days: “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came”-not to the earth, but-“to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him.” Daniel 7:13.
This coming is foretold also by the prophet Malachi: “The Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 3:1. The coming of the Lord to His temple was sudden, unexpected, to His people. They were not looking for Him there. They expected Him to come to earth, “in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel.” 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
Great controversy further states
*****
But Christ still intercedes in man's behalf, and light will be given to those who seek it. Though this was not at first understood by Adventists, it was afterward made plain as the Scriptures which define their true position began to open before them. GC 431.2
The passing of the time in 1844 was followed by a period of great trial to those who still held the advent faith. Their only relief, so far as ascertaining their true position was concerned, was the light which directed their minds to the sanctuary above. Some renounced their faith in their former reckoning of the prophetic periods and ascribed to human or satanic agencies the powerful influence of the Holy Spirit which had attended the advent movement. Another class firmly held that the Lord had led them in their past experience; and as they waited and watched and prayed to know the will of God they saw that their great High Priest had entered upon another work of ministration, and, following Him by faith, they were led to see also the closing work of the church. They had a clearer understanding of the first and second angels’ messages, and were prepared to receive and give to the world the solemn warning of the third angel of Revelation 14. GC 431.3
======
This has already been affirmed in part by the blonde, so now you have yourself a little problem for by calling Ellen White a false prophet you are calling the blonde a false teacher also, for she affirmed exactly this material provided here fyi 🤷♀️
(10:00- 16) The Restoration Movement began about 1800 by Protestants who wished to unify Christians after the pattern of the primitive New Testament church. Restorationism is an indigenous American religious movement that avoids creeds, declaring “no creed but Christ” in the hopes of bringing all Christians into accord with the New Testament pattern described in the book of Acts. Today numerous congregations in Georgia exist as the result of the Restoration Movement.
It began in several places on the frontiers in Kentucky and southwest Pennsylvania. The success of the Cane Ridge Revival (a Kentucky camp meeting) persuaded Barton Warren Stone, who had taught school in Georgia, that all denominations needed to work together in order to reap the harvest of souls on the frontier. Together with several other ministers, he organized the “Christian” (or restoration) movement.
In 1807 Thomas Campbell, a Presbyterian minister of the Seceder Presbyterian Church of Scotland, immigrated to America. He had by this time adopted the idea of restoring the primitive church of the New Testament.
After he was suspended from his Presbyterian ministry for practicing open communion, he formed the Christian Association of Washington (in Washington County, Pennsylvania).
In 1809 he published Declaration and Address, a treatise rejecting denominationalism. That same year Campbell’s son Alexander joined him in Pennsylvania after completing his studies at the University of Glasgow in Scotland, where he had learned about the ideas of James Alexander Haldane and Robert Haldane regarding restorationism.
The Christian Association of Washington was reconstituted as the Brush Run Church, and by the summer of 1812 Alexander Campbell believed that the New Testament mode of baptism was by immersion.
The Campbells joined the Redstone Baptist Association in 1813. The younger Campbell then began preaching and debating publicly throughout Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, and western Virginia.
In 1832 the “Campbellites,” or Disciples of Christ, as they preferred to call themselves, joined with the “Christians,” or followers of Stone, at Lexington, Kentucky, and grew rapidly. However, half of Stone’s group did not join the new group, forming instead a Christian fellowship that merged nearly a century later, in 1931, with the (Puritan) Congregational Church (part of the United Church of Christ since 1957).
In 1849 the Disciples organized the American Christian Missionary Society.
The Restoration Movement’s motto, “Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent,” however, led strict restorationists to oppose missionary societies, because the Bible does not explicitly advocate the use of missionaries.
As liberal theology, which encourages the inclusion of modern concepts in and the individual interpretation of religious doctrine, spread in the latter part of the nineteenth century, tensions developed within the movement.
Schism became official in Religious Bodies, a document first issued in 1906 by the U.S. Census Bureau, which listed the strict restorationists as the churches of Christ separately from the Disciples of Christ.
By 1927 the independent Disciples of the “brotherhood” (a term used to avoid “denomination”) who wanted to escape the growing centralization and liberalism of the movement formed the North American Christian Convention.
By 1971 they were listed in the Yearbook of American Churches as the Christian Churches and Churches of Christ.
www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/restoration-movement/
Im an SDA my pastors dont enforce Ellen white writings , i believe in the bible i always go back to the Bible. The bible says to keep the sabbath holy and thats why i go there to fellowship. Hating on Adventist and not calling them christians because of a God fearing woman who always told us to go back to the bible. Sounds bad imho. I went to a sunday church and all of them had different interpretations of the bible its crazy out there. We believe Jesus died for our sins and hes our sole redeemer , Jesus also said if you love me keep my commandments. He didnt say 9 commandments he said commandments which is all 10. God bless if you listen to this idiocy without going to an actual Adventist you're a fool.
Why do you then belong to a chruch which goes against it official teaching? Belief #18 of the 28 is a belief of the so-called gift of Ellen White. Which of the 28 Beliefs do you reject.
Then there is the current chruch manual (19th Edition) on page 45 which requires that the baptismal candidates profess belief of the 28 beliefs before being given the baptismal vows. Are you baptized? Do you now break your vow of professed belief in the Fundamental of SDA belief?
Then there is baptismal vow #8 on page 46 of the church manual, which is the candidates acceptance of the "gift" of Ellen White as the mark of "THE" Remnant chruch. Do now wish to break baptismal vow #8?
Are you a Commandment keeper or a vow breaker? Be careful:
Ecclesiastes 5:4-7 ESV When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow. (5) It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. (6) Let not your mouth lead you into sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands? (7) For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear.
So ur basically collecting a salary from the SDA church and when you baptize new converts, you make them agree to 28 fundamental beliefs you don't really believe in or care about? That's crazy. I mean It's one thing to avoid enforcing Ellen White writings, the question is would you stand on a pulpit and reject her false doctrines and legalism? No you wouldn't.
The less people know how SDA started. The more SDA there will be
@@CPATuttle Well said and I agree the SDA thrive on an ignorance of their foundation. Their foundation is built on false doctrine.
59:04 Seventh-day Adventists Believe is an insider book? Are you serious? 🤣
45:51 Good question regarding how Ellen White came to prominence
(6:30) Read Genesis 1:24-27 and Genesis 2:7, Genesis 2:19.
What similarities and differences can you see between the way God created the animals and humanity?
What does Genesis 2:7 tell us about human nature?
The Genesis account declares that on the sixth day of Creation week the Lord God brought to life land animals and the first human beings, a couple (Genesis 1:24-27). We are told that He “formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky” (Genesis 2:19, NIV). He also “formed a man from the dust of the ground” (Genesis 2:7, NIV).
Although both animals and man were alike made from “the ground,” the formation of the man was distinct from that of animals in two main ways. First, God shaped the man physically, and then “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7, NIV). He was a physical entity before he became a living one. Second, God created humanity as both male and female in the very image and likeness of the Godhead (Genesis 1:26-27).
Genesis 2:7 explains that the infusion of the “breath of life” into the physical body of Adam transformed him into “a living being” (Heb. Nephesh chayyah) or literally “a living soul” (KJV).
It means that each of us does not have a soul that can exist apart from the body. Rather, each one of us is a living being or a living soul.
The claim that this “soul” is a conscious entity that can exist separate from the human body is a pagan, not a biblical, idea.
Understanding the true nature of humanity prevents us from accepting the popular notion of an immaterial soul and all the dangerous errors built upon that belief.
There is no conscious existence of any isolated part of the human being separated from the person as a whole. God created us in a fearful and wonderful way, and we should not speculate beyond what the Scriptures actually say about this specific matter. In fact, not only is the very nature of life a mystery (scientists still can’t agree on exactly what it means for something to be alive), even more mysterious is the nature of consciousness. How does the few pounds of material tissue (cells and chemicals) in our heads, the brain, hold and create immaterial things like thoughts and emotions? Those who study this idea admit that we really don’t know!
I don't know what that's got to do with SDA?
Great video!! Compliments from Brazil 🇧🇷
YYEEEEESSSSS I HAVE BEEN WAITING WAY TOO LONG FOR THIS!
I too was once an SDA and thankfully God broke that spell. Yes it's definitely a spell (curse) they're under as Paul warns us twice.
Galatians 1:8-9 in the King James Version (KJV):
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
This religion had a very siniister beginning... Freemasons. They were Freemasons and the proof of this still exists today. Take some time and look at the old photographs of the old pioneers. Lots of Freemasonry hand gestures and symbolism in their pamphlets and publication art works.
James white died well before EG White and she gave the authority to erect an obelisk on the family grave site. It's still there to this day and speaks volumes to who they served.
41:35 Adventist do not teach that you have to be perfected to be saved or you have to keep the law perfectly to be saved. That is incorrect.
Yes, we do and so does Ellen G White.
"Words once spoken, deeds once done, can never be recalled. Angels have registered both the good and the evil. The mightiest conqueror upon the earth cannot call back the record of even a single day. Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny for weal or woe. Though they may be forgotten by us, they will bear their testimony to justify or condemn." Christ In His Sanctuary, pg. 183
Yes, your church does teach that it's only by passing the Investigative Judgment can one be saved. And in order to pass the "judgment" you have to exhibit the perfect character of Jesus and obey the 10 Commandments perfectly.
(5:19) so what of it?
Martin Luther didn’t keep the Sabbath, God didn’t show him the Sabbath truth, instead He showed him
Habakkuk 2:4 the just shall live by faith,
…today however, God is emphasising His Sabbath and elevating His fourth commandment according to Revelation 14:7 by drawing attention to the fact that the change from Sabbath to Sunday is the mark of the beast, (Revelation 14:9) whom Martin Luther (along with many of his contemporaries in the Protestant reformation) identified in Revelation 13:18 as the papacy.
Now this is a salvific doctrine whereas not understanding the holy trilogy is not a salvific matter (Deuteronomy 29:29)
Martin Luther believed in soul sleep the complete opposite of today’s Christianity. Martin Luther considered people who believed in immortality of the soul heretics. Martin Luther today would resemble a seventh day Adventist more than an average every day American Christian today. Martin Luther would have agreed with the SDA that the Roman papacy is the antichrist. Oh, but today’s Christianity won’t tell you that, the truth basically.
(8:52- 9:05) yes when we ascribe the ability to keep the Ten Commandments to us being able to do it because Jesus did it, yet forgetting that the way to keep the Ten Commandments is in fact a character reformation process (Philippians 2:5) God bringing us back to Himself as we were originally created in Eden clothed in His robe of light (Psalm 104:2) meaning that we have the character of God in us, then we are heading off the narrow WAY and onto the highway to destruction as we see when Moses took credit for supplying the water from the Rock!
In doing so, Moses was stealing Gods glory from Him, and God put him to death as also Aaron who was party to the theft of Gods glory when he failed to admonish Moses and correct the matter.
They both lacked love (Romans 13:10; Psalm 119:151) and because they were both in a position of authority under God, and the people looked to them as the mouthpiece of God, (Exodus 4:16) God dealt decisively with their lawbreaking by death even though not instantly!
To address your comments about diet and sabbath observance, did not Peter make it perfectly clear the he observed the dietary laws? (Acts 10 and 11) and did not God Himself make the distinction between clean vs unclean animals according to Leviticus 20:22-26 telling us why He did so?
Did not Jesus keep the Sabbath? (Luke 4:16; John 15:10)
Did not He and His followers keep the Sabbath according to the commandment even after His death? (Luke 23:54-56)
Did not the early church (both Jews and gentiles) keep the Sabbath decades after Jesus ascended to heaven? (Acts 13:42-48; 16:13-15; 17:2; 18:4)
Did not pagan emperor god Constantine the great, lord of the Roman Empire, declare his day the lord’s day for Romans, him being the lord of Sunday in ad321, in opposition to the Lord’s day of the bible (Isaiah 58:13,14) according to Revelation 1:10; Exodus 16:22-36; 20:10; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:15; ; Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27,28) in which he drew a line of separation between Rome vs Judaism which observed Gods Sabbath of the fourth commandment since Christianity is the most Jewish thing anyone can do realising that salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) and later lord Constantine even decree that no one be permitted to keep the Sabbath and this took place centuries after the apostles had all died?
Btw the Waldenses were also sabbath observant :)
Remember that breaking the fourth commandment is as much a sin as is killing or committing adultery according to James 2:8-12
Oh you're an adventist, I get it now.
OK so let me ask you do you keep the Sabbath perfectly?
I can 100% guarantee you can not nor have you nor will you ever, there's only one person who kept it perfectly and His name is Jesus .
I know Adventists think they keep the sabbath perfectly. But they do not, they travel, they cook, they light fires. Operate machinery, reheat their food. Even cook for "pot luck"
Not to mention the biblical Sabbath according to the Jewish calendar changes by the moon phases, so you do not even worship on the true biblical 7th day.
Bible is quite clear it is not a buffet table where you can pick and choose what you want to honour. You wanna keep the law keep it all. All 600+ laws.
Galatians 3 in particular 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that NO ONE is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.
Now there's nothing wrong with worshipping on the Sabbath if that's what you want to do. But when a denomination states they are the remnant church because they keep a certain law/day. That everyone else is damned (I'd say to hell but SDAs don't believe in that either despite Jesus talking about it, but SDAs don't believe Jesus is the Messiah either they believe Michael is -Hebrews 1 refutes this by the way) because they don't follow that same teaching. That Sunday worship is the motb, even though the first fruits, Jesus, was on ressurection day/ 1st day of the week. What do you do with ressurection Sunday? Ignore what Jesus conquered, payment for your sins and death??
My friend, this is a lot to take in. We don't have any ill feelings towards Adventists we want them to know the truth and be set free in Christ Jesus.
The fourth commandment cannot save you. Take your adventist goggles off and pray earnestly, search the Scriptures. Let scripture interpret scripture. There is a whole kingdom of grace that awaits you. Much love and peace- Donna Abbott
The Lord rose on Sunday (Mark 16:9). The Apostles gathered with other Christians to perform religious services on Sunday (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians16:2).
Sunday Sabbath keeping seems to be very appropriate, since the Lord Jesus Christ entered into His rest on Sunday, having accomplished the work of salvation by His resurrection. But even if Sunday Sabbath keeping is contested, which it likely was even in the Apostolic age, the Scriptures still appear to give us some flexibility in how we are to keep the Sabbath.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." - Mark 2:27
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." - Colossians 2:16
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."
- Romans 14:5
"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."
- Romans 14:5
For a certainty though, the Sunday Sabbath is a far cry from being the Mark of the Beast. Those who are convicted in their worship of the Lord Jesus Christ on Sunday can hardly be considered as "worshipping the beast".
Although we may disagree, I appreciate your well-written argument. God bless you, and Happy Thanksgiving!
@@krazo4Christ Judaism still gathers after the sabbath. That's totally normal. I'm not Seventh-day Adventist and I even know that.
What does Jesus say about anyone who annuls any of the commandments?
@@Over-for-now I am not an SDA so that question was for them, Matthew 5:19 says anyone who annuls the least of these commandments will be least in the kingdom of heaven, the point being as the sda teaches that the Catholic Church changed the sabbath to Sunday therefore annulling one of the commandments they will not go to heaven. But it’s clear even if you do you still get to be in heaven. It’s not about the Law it’s the person that being Jesus Christ
I challenge all of you to read Desire of Ages, Steps to Christ or The Great Controversy , EG White’s writing are beautiful.
The books are beautiful but she plagerised them and said that God gave her the writings which was a lie
Amen I loved that book
Please read Romans 3:4. This is the verse to fall back on whenever there are contradictions about what Jesus Christ has accomplished for us
She stole them and told us God gave to her
at around 6:40 she says Adventists don't believe the father and the son share substance.
She must not have read Ellen white's statement:
"With what firmness and power he uttered these words. The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, “I and my Father are one.” The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes. The Jews understood his meaning, there was no reason why they should misunderstand, and they took up stones to stone him.. ST November 27, 1893, par. 5
If they believe that Satan is the scapegoat, then that means Satan helps achieve our salvation? That's disgusting!
Yes, we believe that Satan is the scapegoat. No, we do not believe that he helped achieve our salvation. And yes if that were true it would be disgusting. But it isn't so it's not.
In the OT sanctuary example the sin if the people were placed on the scapegoat. This scapegoat was led to the wilderness never to be seen again. It was only symbolic of what happens to our sin.
The scapegoat represented Satan, obviously. The symbolismin this is not that Satan is taking our sin on him, rather, sin and the *originator* of sin will both come to an end.
@@Stefan-X24 not its not satan.
The scapegoat was for azazel whos dominion was in the desert. He was the lord of the dead. The scapegoat was sent into the desert, as to bring sin and all unholiness out of the land of God cause their land needed to be holy.
@@lincolnliking then you need to study Leviticus 16 better.
Leviticus 16:5 says BOTH goats are a part of a singular sin offering. You guys want to try and say in the type both goats represented the sin offering, but in the antitype only the "lord's goat" is a part of the sin offering, the scapegoat is Satan.
Make up your mind.
@@answeringadventism you've been throughly refuted on Jesus being Azazel or for Azazel. Ridiculous
I'm an ex-Adventist but I still keep Kosher because the Bible never says otherwise.
1Timothy 4 :Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
Everything is good we're not bound. But if you choose not to eat that's fine. So long as you don't think you're holier than others or you're doing extra special works for your salvation.
With love and peace -Donna
@@markdonnaabbott3977 Shalom Donna, I think you're misinterpreting the verse.
"...require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." Here it's talking about food God said was good to eat (Leviticus 11:1-47)
I haven't looked at this topic in a while so I searched what SDA say about this verse in particular and they make good points. One of them being it can't refer to Kosher as that was / is a teaching of God and not of demons.
@@rager4able shalom my friend. Leviticus is old covenant and for the Jews we are gentiles we were never part of that covenant. And it along with feasts and sacrificial system was to show the Jews what was wrong with their hearts and minds.
When Jesus fulfilled it perfectly He gave us a new covenant and God gave us His Spirit which made us brand new creatures.
But the new covenant says in Romans 14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
So if we were to go out for lunch and I ate say bacon and you are convinced it is not good so therefore you do not touch it. I out of love for you would not eat that in front of you. But neither of us are any better for eating or not eating. We both serve the same Jesus. The rest of Romans 14 touches this.
But you see with SDAs they believe Ellen was a prophet and these are her "visions", no pork no meat no seafood, no coffee etc etc but what she says contradicts what God said through His apostles and prophets. And that's the issue we have with that. And if you read Roman and Hebrews and Galatians majority of what sdas hold can be refuted with God's word. And they pressure you to abstain from meats according to their prophet, not according to what God says. Scripture says if we take part in the law any little part we must do all. And we can't. That's why Jesus came.
Like I said before if you're convinced it is unclean for you, you're convinced there's nothing wrong with that.
Your friend Donna Abbott
@@markdonnaabbott3977 do you give tithe?
@@jonnbobo $$ 10% nope. Under new covenant
2 Corinthians 9:7
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Yep. There are way too many younger folks online calling themselves prophets, or saying God told them explicitly about details of future events. Many seem sincere. But sincerely caught up in feelings wanting to be some sort of hero, or insider. Not content with God's final source of His written words that have given themselves up to string delusions.
“Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good.”
1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 ESV
@@nickhanley5407 “test everything”
Try the spirit whether it is from God
(5:34 - 37) REMEMBER that no SDA doctrines come from Ellen White! She as all Seventh-day Adventists, believe and teach the Bible only!
Yes indeed! Ellen White was raised Methodist and that’s why she understood the holy trilogy and never forced anyone else to believe since it’s not a salvific matter!
Read what God showed her though
Ellen White’s early visions
“I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, ‘If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist.’ ” (EW 54)
“The Sufferings of Christ” (1869)
“This Saviour was the brightness of His Father's glory and the express image of His person. He possessed divine majesty, perfection, and excellence. He was equal with God.” (2T 200)
Special Testimonies for Ministers and Workers (1897)
“Evil had been accumulating for centuries, and could only be restrained and resisted by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fulness of divine power.” (SpTA10 25)
(19:56 - 20:10) ahhhh… I wonder if the penny has actually dropped… “kind of a little minority group that coalesced”… God calls these His remnant…
@@Over-for-now who are the Jews according to Romans 2:28,29?
This world perspective and some of the doctrine is very similar to those in the Torah observant community 😮 there must be a connection.
For people who are so anti Catholic, they sure do act like them by saying you must accept THEIR interpretation of scripture and that you as an individual do not have the ability to understand the basic truth of the gospel yourself. Ellen G. White is basically the pope of her religion.
Yawn. You simply regurgitate the same tired old lies that Dudley M. Canright pulled out of thin air when he defected from Adventism in the 1800s. His life ended up a disaster.
@@charity2275 I will shoot you straight, I don't even know who that is. I did not come to that conclusion because of Mr. Canright, again never heard of him. Furthermore, his life falling apart after leaving Adventism is irrelevant, the standard of truth is scripture and not the life of a fallen image bearer of God, as we all are, who could have got into any number of things afterwards. I made the statement based on my observations of the beliefs in both systems, and if I'm not the first to make such a statement, it only strengthens my point, for my statement is backed by 2-3 independent lines of witness. I am naturally distrustful of any system that raises one man, or woman in this case, above every other believer. If you're going to say I'm regurgitating lies, show me scripture, not the name of some random person I never heard of. Point out where I'm wrong, you said nothing that refuted my statement.
@@landonlawson2676 My point is that nearly every critic of Ellen White or the Adventist Church, including Colleen Tinker in the video, quotes Dudley M. Canright who wrote a couple of egregious books more than 134 years ago, including more than 400 pages of hateful, unfounded attacks in his tome titled Seventh-day Adventism Renounced. As for hating Catholics, Adventists don't claim to hate anyone. But they (we) ARE CORRECT that their agenda is to persuade, or FORCE if necessary, everyone to return to what they claim is the "Mother church" instituted by God. I have copies of letters written by the pope saying just that. Every Catholic priest swears an oath to the pope that he will do whatever is necessary against heretics, meaning anyone including Protestants, who doesn't bow to the pope and keep HIS version of religion. But my study of history and archaeology shows that the Roman Catholic Church is FALSE and God says "Come OUT of her, My people, and be not partakers of her sins." The pope holds Catholic traditions, including pagan rites and beliefs, as ABOVE THE BIBLE. Ellen White's writings lead people TO the Bible. She was a very humble, gentle, kind woman who was called to guide the fledgling SDA Church. We Adventists appreciate and respect her dedication to God and His remnant church, but we do not worship or adore her as Catholics do the pope.
@@charity2275
Here we go with your claims without any form of source to back your claims up ... typical Sammy account 😏
How about you quit acting like your other account Dr G and learn to at least act like your someone else smarty-pants...
Your to predictable.
Learn to debate based on facts through sources statements and passages
@@charity2275 I want to make it clear that I never said SDAs "hated" Catholics, I said they're anti Catholic. I myself am protestant, literally protesting the Catholic Church (it's in the name). Printing the Bible in common language for the average person to read was literally one of the forms of protest. The point I was making was that SDA was using some of the same controlling tactics as the Catholic Church by saying that you must submit to THEIR understanding of scripture. You mentioned being pointed to the Bible, I agree with the sentiment, which is one of the reasons I am not SDA. Ellen G. White not only fails the test of a prophet found in Deuteronomy, but the Bible is explicitly clear in in 1 Timothy 2:12-14, women are NOT permitted to teach or have authority over a man. Ellen G. White blatantly ignoring that already raises red flags. Let me also point out that the reason Paul gives for not permitting women to teach in that verse is because they're more easily deceived.
I knew Pastor James was old but I didn't know his wife founded 7th day Adventism 🤣
Jk Pastor James, please don't destroy me 😅
(18:22- 44) Harold camping? How is he even remotely similar to the Bible student named William Miller and where are YOUR calculations of the Daniel 8:14 prophecy brother?
You did not listen with understanding. The false prophecy and prediction of Harold Camping and like the false prophecy and prediction of William Miller. Camping and Miller and kindred false prophets.
@@AcademyApologia the mere fact that you compare HC who was not a student of the Daniel 8:14 prophecy with WM who was a student of the Daniel 8:14 prophecy shows that you have an imbalance in your comparison. It’s important to remember this simple fact when making any comparison always compare apples with apples or you will incorrectly attribute to a simple mathematical oversight the words false prophecy (as you have here illustrated).
Before you can honesty call out false prophet you first need to ascertain if the person ever announced that they are a prophet, if not then it is not honest to call them a false prophet now is it or by your same measure then you too are a false prophet.
Secondly looking at the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 I still don’t see your calculations that I asked you for, yet you are quick to tar and feather William Miller placing the heretics cap on his head and leading him out to the stake to be burned alive …. smacks of the practice of a kangaroo court at work here.
Thirdly they called Jesus Beelzebub and falsely accused Him also of many things just as you falsely accuse William Miller who never claimed to be a prophet at any time, of being a false prophet! This you do unashamedly without providing your own calculations of the Daniel 8:14 prophecy for our inspection thus, by your lack of supporting evidence (no calculations) your charge against William Miller is false and would not stand under the scrutiny of a court of law today which is most likely why as a sensationalist you turn to UA-cam for a following to stroke your enormous ego
So again by your total absence of any calculations of Daniel 8:14, you have placed yourself in a rather precarious predicament with God who identified those who have the character traits of Dan, to be absent from those who will inherit eternal life according to Genesis 49; Revelation 7.
Remember Luke 6:26 and Psalm 105:15 for if you choose to forget these scriptures you will fall foul of the Lords frown
@@annettemacintosh117 Does your organization teach and call Ellen White a prophet? I do grow weary of teaching Adventist about their religion, but IF am here to help:
“It seemed reasonable to me that God would speak to his church now in somewhat the same way as he did in former times. I had no doubt then, nor have I had in all the years which have since intervened, that *Sister White was chosen of the Lord as his special messenger to communicate to his remnant church words of warning and instruction just as truly as were the prophets of old.”*
Thompson, G. B.” Appreciation of the Work of Mrs. E.G. White” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 5 August 1915, p. 2
*“The prophet of the Lord has been laid to rest.* Our success depends upon following the instruction given. Sufficient instruction has been given to carry all safely through who will heed it. "It is not good to distrust even men when they have managed our affairs well thus far; and it is madness to distrust God."
Butler, George. “The Spirit of Prophecy”. Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 12 December 1918, p. 7
*“We thank God that He gave a prophet to the remnant church.* No Seventh-day Adventist should be ashamed of this blessed truth. Rather we should rejoice that the Lord has in this manner visited His people, and again and again warned them of their danger in the midst of the evils which threaten the church at the present time. These messages we believe should be faithfully followed by every believer. Next to the Bible, and in connection with it, they should be- read and studied. They throw a flood of light upon the Sacred Record.”
F. M. W. “The Study of the Bible Aided by the Writings of the Spirit of Prophecy”. Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 17 March 1921, p. 6
*“. . .,so, we believe that Mrs. White was a prophet to the church of Christ to-day.* And the same as the messages of the prophets were received in olden times, so her messages should be received at the present time.”
Wilcox, Francis. “The Source of Mrs. White’s Inspiration.” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11
I have dozens more, so before you make a statement, you should at least read your own literature.
Ellen White is a false prophet
@@AcademyApologia did the leaders of the Jews teach that Jesus had a demon in Him, (John 8:52)
was casting our demons by the prince of demons/Beelzebub? (Mark 3:22)
Now pay attention to Luke 6:26 Jesus said as He kept the commandments of God (John 15:10) so too we are to follow His example (1 John 2:3-6) so do you keep the Sabbath? No? Why then do you call Jesus Lord Lord but do not do what He says?
Isaiah 5:20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
God has a whole Bible to throw at you so at least read His literature before making a statement
Btw you failed to show the literature where Ellen White ever claimed to be a prophet, when you find that we can discuss your false prophet accusation 😂
@@annettemacintosh117 What are you doing? You made a statement about Ellen White being or not being a prophet and I showed you only a small sample of the quotes where Ellen White is identified as a prophet. I accepted your challenge and showed that Ellen White is regarded as a prophet by your organization. Stay on topic...
Ellen White is a false prophet.
You got to ask, how did Miller come up with that exact date of Oct 22?? Why not Oct 19 or 20??
This is how he did it..He asked a couple of Jews about the cleansing of the sanctuary..Yom Kippur..The annual event held on Tishri 10 of the Jewish calendar..
Guess what!! In 1844, that Tishri 10 would have been Sept 23 1844
A whole month off..So the disappointment was even more so because this infamous date is wrong..
What a way to start a cult..
They were advertising a dating sight and having a good old gossip session. And these guys are concerned about a group of people that teach, love God, and love their neighbors through the keeping of God's commandments. Go figure; the Cultish guys teach lawlessness and the keeping of man-made holy days (that aren't holy days)-blind leading the blind.
True
(4:32) the millerite movement was comprised of many denominations. As previously mentioned - William Miller was himself a Gentleman farmer of the Baptist faith who was called by God in 1831 to be a lay preacher.
(8:01-20) the Holy Spirit does not dwell where He is not wanted. When we turn habitually away from God rejecting the promptings of His Holy Spirit Who alone is able to bring us to repentance, (Ephesians 4:30) then we make it clear that we do not wish to be in dwelt by Him (Hebrews 10:26,27) as we see in the case of king Saul who habitually went his own way contrary to the will of God and so eventually God had no option other than to respect king Saul’s wishes and so God withdrew His Holy Spirit from king Saul.
1st Samuel tells the woeful account of a king who had Gods blessing but spurned his Maker persistently, eventually turning to a medium for council who promptly envoked not Samuel, but satan posing as the prophet (2nd Corinthians 11:12-15) for the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6) according to God they go down into silence and do not praise Him (Psalm. 115:17) for the dead sleep (John 11:11-14) until the resurrection (John 11:24; Job 19:25-27) either of the righteous unto eternal life (1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; John 5:25-27; 6:38-40) or unto the resurrection of the wicked and eternal separation from God called the second death (Revelation 20:10-14) from which there is no return.
See in whom the Holy Spirit dwells? It is those who have the character of God (Philippians 2:5) now how do we know that the Ten Commandments represent the character of God? See 1 John 4:16 says the Person who is God, is LOVE and in Romans 13:10 He says Gods Law is Love!
Now what about the truth? Who and what is truth?
John 14:6 Christ is the Truth
John 17:17 The Holy Spirits written word is Truth
Psalm 119:151 The commandments are Truth
What does Gods character do for us?
Psalm 19:7 the perfect (another word for Love) law of the Lord (another way to say Character) converts the soul (another word for person) and makes wise (God is the giver of all knowledge) the simple (they took note that the disciples had been with Jesus - Acts 4:13 - they mirrored God’s Character without which no one can enter the kingdom according to Matthew 7:21-23; 19:16-19)
Now it does NOT depend on how good WE are at all for the Bible says “only GOD is Good” (Matthew 19:16,17)
We humans have no natural goodness in us, we are wicked/rotten to the core!
Luke 11:13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, …
Matthew 7:11If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children…
Daniel 10:8My comeliness was turned in me into corruption
Isaiah 6:5…for I am a man of unclean lips…
Where is there ever any goodness ascribed to humanity? NEVER!
1 John 1:8-10
Is it not written that there is none who seeks God they have altogether become corrupt?
Psalm 14:3; 53:3; 1 Timothy 6:5
This is the very error that Lucifer made believing that he was naturally good (which is a huge mistake to make since any goodness that is seen in anyone is as a direct result of the influence of God not the influence of humanity) for we are desperately wicked which is why we NEED a Saviour and the very reason why God in Jesus (John 1:14) volunteered to become our passover sacrifice, He Himself the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world (Revelation 13:8; Genesis 22:8; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Daniel 9:27).
By what law does James 2:12; Revelation 20:12 tell us that we will all be judged? Is it not by the Character of God as written in stone by the Finger of God whose same Finger writes the character of God on the hearts (mind/character - Philippians 2:5) of those who obey Him? (John 14:15-21; Hebrews 5:9) or is it the lawbreakers/wicked/having the character of Satan (1 Timothy 1:10)? You decide if your guests are being truthful according to scripture or whether they are in fact prevaricating…
She's really terribly twisted. Video doesn't mention that egw was practicing occult and doing direct channeling with demons.
Lol. Honestly there two women have not in the slightest bit accurately portrayed seventh day Adventist history nor beliefs. This would be like talking to a disgruntled member of Jeff Durbin's congregation about the beliefs and teachings of his church. Would they accurately portray Jeff's true beliefs? Or would they spue out of their mouth the disgruntled OPINION AND POSITION THEY HOLD. from the sounds of things the leadership of this ministry did not due their due diligence in finding out truly what true seventh day Adventist teach and belief.
(8:00) what does Revelation 14 say? Who is being judged?
7saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come;
I am quite sure that He says that He is being judged!
Now when Jesus returns at His second coming what does He say about His reward?
Revelation 22:12And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
So if the judgement has not already taken place, how does He know who the righteous are to resurrect?
Right so then Paul says do you not know that you will judge the angels and the world (1 Corinthians 6:2’ so what does that mean?
Obviously if Jesus is assigned the task of judging according to
John 5:22For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
Then we who return with Him to heaven at the second coming, will be judging His decisions not so? Obviously yes!
So the question is this, die hire guests understand how a court of justice actually works? It appears not so let’s educate them now.
Once judgement has been passed then sentencing takes place and that is where we who examine the books get to determine each sentence!
Interview Doug Bachelor for understanding SDA beliefs. I’m sure he would come if invited. Also, SDAs do believe in hell. We don’t believe that a person burns forever. God is a loving god. He would not punish someone for eternity. That’s a lie from the devil.
God also has had a whole group of people killed who are we to decide what love looks like?
Please show in scripture what you said. In other words, prove it.
Have you read the book of Matthew?
Matthew 13:41-42 ESV
[41] The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, [42] and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:49-50 ESV
[49] So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous [50] and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:41 ESV
[41] “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
These are the words of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and you're attributing them to the devil.
@@crystal9626 Still waiting for your biblical proof.
@@ThatOne77check Ezekiel 33:11 KJV.
Interesting a podcast about “apologetics” by asking people who don’t believe in the doctrines. It’s like having a debate with someone you agree with.
Seventh-day Adventists who are baptized believers in Adventist doctrine (28 Beliefs) are not Christian. Adventism teaches doctrines which are cursed in the bible. For example, the Adventist gospel message of 3 Angels Messages is not found in the bible and according to Gal. 1:6-9 this gospel is cursed. A church which preaches a gospel which is cursed is not Christian. Adventism is not Christian and not part of the larger Protestant Christian community.
Galatians 1:6-9: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Just because you make a statement that Seventh Day Adventists are not a part of the “Protestant community” doesn’t make it a fact. SDA’s in fact came out of several Protestant doctrines. It is by its very nature a Protestant community because it is not catholic.
I take it then your Bible does not have the book of Revelation as that is where you find the 3 angels message?
You never did explain exactly what the “accursed” message is. It certainly isn’t the 3 angels message.
I'm sure you could find someone that left the church that the "cultish" guys belong to, that believes that church is a cult. Because someone doesn't like the church they left doesn't make that church bad or a cult, necessarily.
I think that any church that entertains christmas and easter has strayed from the truth.
@@scottandchels6813 You misunderstand. Everyone I have encountered who has departed the SDA chruch has done so due to the heretical SDA doctrine. The SDA chruch is a non-Christian church which teaches such heretical doctrines as a Christ who did NOT die on the cross for the sins of mankind an a 3 Angels gospel which is not found in the bible.
Galatians 1:6-9: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, *let him be accursed.* As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, *let him be accursed.*
@@AcademyApologia Yeshua fully preached and taught true torah, unpolluted by man-made traditions. The Jewish Shepherds lead the people astray, just as the Christian shepherds do today.
The gospel that is different leads people to lawlessness. Do you belong to a lawless cult?
Mat 7:22-23 TS2009 22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ 23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!' Psa. 6:8.
I was in the SDA Church from about 10 years old till I was around 21. I fell away not really because of doctrine or because it is a false church. My following always was more because of a false conversion. However I always knew something wasn’t quite right. In a lot of ways after looking back it did very much feel like a Cult. I would have considered myself pretty well studied in the SDA beliefs and history. However later, and including today after watching this I realize that what I was taught was Not The entire story. The church was very legalistic and harsh. I honestly, looking back, cannot ever remember a sermon or teaching on Grace. Was never told that we were unable to be good enough to keep the law. But I do very much for a member the stringent rules surrounding Sabbath keeping and what we ate as a means to be good enough to make it to heaven. I do remember being taught that the church was God‘s remnant Church and that Ellen White was a prophet who’s writings were equal to scripture. I also remember the manipulation and mental abuse that was rampant in the church. I know it’s not exclusive to this denomination, but there was also a very alarming case of sexual aabuse. i’m in my mid 40s now. It has been within the last five years that I found my way back to God and heard the true gospel and realizing that I had a false conversion and been a part of a cult.
You are absolutely correct in your views of Adventism. My husband and I left about 20 years ago. He was a generational SDA and taught in their schools. It is legalistic, unbiblical in their unique doctrines, and I too really never heard the Gospel. C hurch was always, "I'm so thankful for the Sabbbath". The Sabbath was always the main thing!
From my understanding while I was a SDA is they do teach about grace. Grace through faith. And that it isn't necessarily your actions that save you but they are fruit of your faith. Your "works" are a evidence of your faith another words. Faith without works is dead.
I do feel like they do have a lot right but there is a lot I don't agree on. This is why I left the church
@@mimiwest3256 agree it always irked me "happy sabbath" like seriously... Sabbath points to our eternal rest in Jesus. But then again they believe Michael is Jesus so false christ false gospel. It's so so sad I pray they will find the true meaning of grace through Christ...
@@rager4able lovely, I like your comment, it’s genuine.
Please may I know what it is in the Bible doctrines that Seventh day Adventists teach, that you find challenging so that I might understand..thank you
@@mimiwest3256 the Sabbath is the main thing because God has made it the main thing see Revelation 14:7,12 God has elevated the Sabbath not to harm us but to reconcile us to Himself, He is trying the best way possible to call His people away from the tree of death which in this case is the so called “Christian sabbath” which will be the destruction of many many souls.
We must always listen to what we are told or read in scripture to hear Gods voice speaking to us in order to save us because that’s the only reason why God keeps on sharing His sabbath truth which is growing louder and louder and louder by the day, it’s almost all one hears these days because Jesus is coming soon, do you really want to be found denying that He is the creator God and our redeemer by your practise of disobedience? Doesn’t Hebrews 5:9 say that salvation is for those who obey God?
(3:35) Ellen White never started any religious group, she was a pork eating sunday keeping Methodist teen, 16 years of age in 1844 at the time of the great disappointment, who together with her parents (also pork eating sunday keeping Methodists), attended the millerite meetings frequented by many different denominations such as quakers, Presbyterians, seventh day Baptists, Christian connection, abolitionists etc…and William Miller the main speaker was himself a gentleman farmer who, in 1810 began to studied the Daniel 8:14 prophecy in earnest.
After years of Bible study he began to preach in 1831 that the present world would end “about the year 1843.” He based this belief primarily on a passage in the Book of Daniel (8:13,14). He published a pamphlet in 1833 and a book of lectures in 1836, the first of many publications.
God called William Miller as a lay preacher to share what he had discovered, establishing the date of the decree in Ezra 7 and calculating the timeline and arriving at the end of the 2300 prophetic day/literal year of the prophecy. No one to date has been able to show the error in Baptist lay preacher William Miller’s calculations, though many like to cry false prophet!
Now just to set the record straight for your guests and yourself - Joseph Bates is the founder of the Seventh-day Adventist movement which just btw is a Protestant Christian denomination which is distinguished by its observance of the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening), the seventh day of the week in the Christian (Gregorian) and the Hebrew calendar, as the Sabbath day, and its emphasis on the imminent Second Coming (advent) of Jesus Christ.
Now go find out what the difference is between “founder” vs “co-founder” and then once you understand the difference, perhaps you can tell us why you pick on co-founder Ellen White, who is one of three co-founders yet you don’t seem bothered at all by the founder of Adventism Joseph Bates nor JN Andrews nor James S White who were all authors just as Ellen White was, nor do you focus any attention on any of the pioneers such as Uriah Smith, Owen Crosier, Sylvester Bliss, William Foy etc… why is that? Might your actions and those of your guests, not perhaps be a fulfilment of
Luke 6:26”Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.”?
Are we not admonished by God in
Psalm 105:15Saying, “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.”?
This is what always astounds me with these types of sensational talks is that the information is right there at the source , in the EGW foundation library for all to find yet what route do you choose to take?
m.egwwritings.org/en/folders/16
Is this that you and your guests do here, judging Gods people and causing the gospel message to fall backwards (Genesis 49:16,17) not considered dumpster diving in Satan’s trash as those posing as apostles of God yet more aptly described in 2 Corinthians 11:12-15?
"Tell the World"
I am SDA too but I just want to comment some of your points here. Firstly, they do mention Joseph Bates and James White in their explanation of the rise of the Millerite movement and commodification of Ellen White’s visions. The reason why they speak more on Ellen White is because she is undeniably the face of Adventism. The other individuals you memtioned, i.e Uriah Smith, are not as prominent, nor are their works as utilized as Ellen White’s.
Secondly, God does command that His anointed ones and prophets not be touched nor be harmed. But we should not conflate this with meaning their teachings/actions cannot be scrutinized. Any one who claims to speak or act on behalf of the Lord should be subject to scrutiny so that they can be proven to not be a false prophet. The SDA co-founders are not above reproach or criticism, no how matter how true we feel their teachings are. For example, Moses was still punished by God for striking the rock twice. Should his behavior not have been inspected just because he was a prophet? Similarly, David murdered a man and stole his wife. He was anointed since his youth. Should his subjects, much less God, have not called him out? As soon as we think any one besides God is above criticism, that opens opens up a dangerous slippery slope to manipulation and even idolatry. I believe Psalm 105: 15 is referring to physical harm but that’s beside the point. Using that verse implies that the podcasters’ criticism of the SDA founders is harming them in some way. They’re dead.
Thirdly, I don’t necessarily think it's wrong for the podcasters to "judge God's people." We must judge what is biblically right and wrong, no? As SDAs, we do it all the time. We consider every other denomination to not have the truth, only we have it. That is a judgement; we have judged their beliefs as wrong. Those denominations might think WE are the ones causing the gospel message to fall backwards. I must admit, it's not a nice feeling when it's our doctrines that are being picked apart, but that's the way religious discourse works.
They do mention them. Perhaps in the other episodes they will talk about how JN Andrews was ANTItrinitarian and that the SDA religion's flagship university STILL bears the name of that antitrinitarian
"The White Lie"- Walter T. Rea, an interesting read
Hiding in plain sight vol.1 ,2 & 3 by EJ Lauriston is also a good read.
@@calvindonaldson9879 Else Jr. Lauriston was a gang member and never appreciated anything Adventists did to help him. He is a lost soul who eats disgusting pork and rants false teachings.
Meaning?
@@calvindonaldson9879 do share
@@annettemacintosh117
EJ Lauriston was a former SDA pastor that was well grounded in the teachings of Ellen G. White. While studying Greek, he found a substantial amount of errors in her writings when interpreting scripture in Greek.
There might need a part 3? This is deep do this ladies have a channel.
Former Adventist Podcast is a podcast as well as on UA-cam 🙂
57:27 Thank you so much for actually reading the official Seventh-day Adventists position on salvation by grace alone through faith alone.
This was a very entertaining episode. Looking forward to Part 2 👍🏾
Yeah that’s what the Romans said in the colosseum while the true Christians were being torn to shreds by wild beasts
@@annettemacintosh117
Seriously? 😂
@@cooperchoo9898 seriously! that was their entertainment
@@annettemacintosh117 As a Seventh-day Adventist I personally found it hilarious 😂
@@annettemacintosh117
LOL 😂 I laugh but it’s true, it was their sick entertainment..
I was standing outside, when Coleen spoke of Orion so I looked at it. A shooting star streaked from the Belt at that moment. It's a sign! Um, no... But what a coincidence. 🙏
I really wish they would stop this insider outsider non-sense.
Yea!! Thank you so much. This is great as i have been wading through the 7th day Adventists abhorrent doctrine with my Bio family for years now. I look forward to yet more ways to reach them in thier lostness with the reality of Jesus Christ. Cheers!
What Bible doctrine is abhorrent please?
(17:28- 18:07) hear say - citation is needed for this comment of your guest where she claims that the orthodox grew weary of the millerites and called the Christian’s babylon please.
Yawning
How many religions, apart from the Jews and Seventh Day Adventist keep the Sabbath on Saturday?
ADVENTISM: World's largest Ostrich Preserve. Head in sand, butt in the air.
The apostles literally believed Jesus was coming within their lifetime.
@@jonnbobo proves nothing
@@sandman9390 actually it does. In fact Paul gives advice based on this fact.
@@jonnbobo I understand that The Apostles thought Jesus would be back during their time, but they didn't give a date for it, did they!? No!....because Jesus told us "NO man knows the date or the hour..."....so, what you are implying to justify false Prophets is just sophistry🤷♂️ what you stated proves nothing ....and , at the end of his life, Paul was aware that The LORD would not be back in his time, but still thought soon, because He wrote to Timothy about it & what to look for before Christ's return😉 We should all look forward to the return of Christ, but making false prophecies about it just brings confusion & disillusionment to folks.
In 1845 Elder Israel Dammon, a Millerite adventist, faced charges by the State of Maine that he was a "vagabond and idle person," "a common railer or brawler," "neglecting his employment," "misspending his earnings" and did not "provide for the support" of himself or his family. His trial was reported, in abridged format, in the Piscataguis Farmer of Dover, Maine, March 7, 1845. The published record provides a fascinating contemporary account of some of the fanatical activities known to have been associated with certain ex-Millerite factions. What is of particular interest to Seventh-day Adventists is that the record mentions young Ellen Harmon (later White) as being present at one of the meetings.
It should be noted that none of the witnesses in the record of Israel Dammon's trial allege any fanatical activity by 17-year-old Ellen Harmon. But the question arises whether Ellen Harmon's attendance at meetings where fanaticism was evident should be construed as an endorsement of such behavior. We think not. When the Lord instructed Ellen Harmon to relate her first vision (received December 1844) to the Advent believers, He did not exclude the fanatics from her ministry. Ellen White refers to numerous occasions when she was directed to bear her testimony to those mistakenly caught up with fanatical ideas and practices. For example:
"In the period of disappointment after the passing of the time in 1844, fanaticism in various forms arose. Some held that the resurrection of the righteous dead had already taken place. I was sent to bear a message to those believing this, as I am now bearing a message to you [certain persons advocating strange doctrines in 1901]. They declared that they were perfected, that body, soul, and spirit were holy. They made demonstrations similar to those you have made, and confused their own minds and the minds of others by their wonderful suppositions. Yet these persons were our beloved brethren, and we were longing to help them. I went into their meetings. There was much excitement, with noise and confusion. One could not tell what was piped or what was harped. Some appeared to be in vision, and fell to the floor. Others were jumping, dancing, and shouting. They declared that as their flesh was purified, they were ready for translation. This they repeated again and again. I bore my testimony in the name of the Lord, placing His rebuke upon these manifestations" (Selected Messages, book 2, p. 34).
Ellen Harmon's association with Israel Dammon at this time may also be understood in light of the fact that while most Millerites had rejected their past experience, he was among a handful of leaders who still believed that Bible prophecy had been fulfilled in 1844--one of the few who would listen to the message of Ellen Harmon's first vision.
It's interesting that you mentioned "selected messages bk 2"🤔...
Because in selected messages bk 1 we see how this so-called messenger of god took the writings of others yet claimed it all came directly from God.
ELLEN G WHITE:
If you refuse to believe until every shadow of uncertainty and every possibility of doubt is removed, you will never believe. The doubt that demands perfect knowledge will never yield to faith. Faith rests upon evidence, not demonstration. The Lord requires us to obey the voice of duty, when there are other voices all around us urging us to pursue an opposite course. It requires earnest attention from us to distinguish the voice which speaks from God."
(EGW, Selected Messages, bk. l, p. 27.)
Now, compare.......
DANIEL MARCH:
"We must not defer our obedience till every shadow of uncertainty and every possibility of mistake is removed. The doubt that demands perfect knowledge will never yield to faith, for faith rests upon probability, not demonstration.... We must obey the voice of duty when there are many other voices crying against it, and it requires earnest heed to distinguish the one which speaks for God."
(Daniel March, Night Scenes in the Bible; Philadelphia: Zeigler, McCurdy & Co., 1823; p88)
HERE WE SEE THE EXACT SAME STATEMENT 👆....
@@nicetry620 These accusations have already been answered by the EGW Estate. Joel. I quote:
"Because she included such selections from other authors in her writings, critics have charged Ellen White with plagiarism. But the mere use of another's language does not constitute literary theft, as noted by Attorney Vincent L. Ramik, a specialist in patent, trademark, and copyright cases. After researching about 1,000 copyright cases in American legal history, Ramik issued a 27-page legal opinion in which he concluded "Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy." Ramik points out several factors that critics of Ellen White's writings have failed to take into account when accusing her of literary theft or deceit. 1) Her selections "stayed well within the legal boundaries of 'fair use.'" 2) "Ellen White used the writings of others; but in the way she used them, she made them uniquely her own"--adapting the selections into her own literary framework. 3) Ellen White urged her readers to get copies of some of the very books she made use of--demonstrating that she did not attempt to conceal the fact of her use of literary sources, and that she had no intention to defraud or supersede the works of any other author."
"Ellen White "did not copy wholesale or without discrimination. What she selected or did not select, and how she altered what she selected" reveals that she used literary sources "to amplify or to state more forcefully her own transcending themes; she was the master, not the slave, of her sources" (Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, p. 461)".
@@JonDorsett
SDA THEOLOGIAN ROBERT BRIMSMEAD:
"It is true that there is evidence of literary borrowing by different biblical authors. But in such cases they used material that was the heritage and common property of the covenantal community. It was not private property, and there was no pretense of originality. With Mrs. White, however, the circumstances were much different. Without acknowledgment she used the literary product of those outside her own religious community, copyrighted it, and demanded royalties both for herself and her children. Right and wrong are to some extent historically conditioned, but we do not have to surmise the literary ethics demanded in Mrs. White's day. The facts are not ambiguous. She did not conform to acceptable literary practices."
Robert Brinsmead, Adventist Theologian, "Judged by the Gospel", p. 172
@@nicetry620 Brimsmead isn't an Adventist theologian.
He is a former Adventist turned farmer.
Yet, on matters of plagiarism, one who specializes in the matters of patent, trademark, and copyright cases would be able to give a more reliable commentary. Which is why I supplied the statement from Attorney Vincent L. Ramik.
@@JonDorsett
Did Brinsmead not enroll in theology at Avondale College in 1955 when he was in his mid-twenties?
Do your homework.
But if that's not enough...
Donald McAdams, president of Southwestern Adventist College:
"The historical portions of The Great Controversy that I have examined are selective abridgments and adaptations of historians. Ellen White was not just borrowing paragraphs here and there that she ran across in her reading, but in fact following the historians page after page, leaving out much material, but using their sequence, some of their ideas, and often their words. In the examples I have examined I have found no historical fact in her text that is not in their text. The hand-written manuscript on John Huss follows the historian so closely that it does not even seem to have gone through an intermediary stage, but rather from the historian's printed page to Mrs. White's manuscript, including historical errors and moral exhortations." Donald R. McAdams, "Shifting Views of Inspiration", Spectrum (magazine) 10, No. 4 (March 1980) p. 34
It was good, but lots of what appear to be statements with no support. Give us examples from White's writings to show what she believed. More evidence of what they actually said. Glad there is a part 2. Will give that a shot to see if they get more in depth.
I heard a historian say that in the days of Joan of Arc and the Hundred Years War, there were several young women in France claiming to have "visions from God." It is quite notable in history where people demand a deviation from Christian doctrine through a "new vision" or "prophecy."
(20:17-19) that’s right just as in AD31 the date was right, the event was wrong (Luke 24:21) so too in 1844 the date was right (22 October 1844 - the Jewish day of atonement) but the event was wrong, (Hebrews 9)
Now what’s so hard to understand about that?
History repeating itself, humans are forever getting things wrong… I mean look at you four here in this podcast, a right royal rooster-up to put it mildly 😝
The TInkers and Dale and Carolyn Ratzlaff have ZERO credibility as far as Adventism and Ellen White are concerned. I have researched them very well and find much controversy in their own personal lives and that they all LOST THEIR JOBS as working for the SDA Church and these biased, nefarious videos and egregious anti-Adventism books they sell are based on their GETTING REVENGE against the SDA Church. And they refuse to be corrected when confronted over their false, wildly speculative claims.
Ellen White "misinterpreted" her 1844 Shut Door vision admits Robert Olson of the White Estate and acknowledged this in the booklet, One Hundred and One Questions on The Sanctuary and On Ellen White, p. 58. He explains on page 65, "The Shut Door":
"Ellen was shown three groups of people:
(a) The living saints, 144,000 in number, who maintained their faith in the October 22 experience,
(b) Former Millerites who looked upon the 1844 movement as a mistake and who claimed that "it was not God who led them out so far," and
(c) "the wicked world which God had rejected."
Ellen misinterpreted this vision. She correctly understood that the day of salvation for the latter two groups was past. For them, the door was shut. (See Selected Messages, book 1, p. 62.) But she incorrectly concluded that no one could accept Christ after October 22, that only the little flock remaining in the household of faith would be saved, and that everyone else would be lost. She somehow failed to see that the figure 144,000, however interpreted, must surely include more than a few small groups of the advent bands. " One Hundred and One Questions on The Sanctuary and On Ellen White, p. 58.
Robert Olson is also wrong when he said that, "She correctly understood that the day of salvation for the latter two groups was past. For them, the door was shut".
Was the day of salvation really past for the latter two groups? God has never closed the door of salvation. It was EGW that "SHUT THE DOOR" of salvation on the world.
Olsen tells us EGW believed for groups (b) & (c) the door was shut.
The (b) group, "the Millerites" started holding evangelistic meetings and winning souls to Christ after 1844, while the Whites held that the door of salvation was closed till to all but their little group. EGW did not open the door of salvation till 1851.
The (c) group, "the wicked world". God did not reject anyone that did not believe in Miller's false date setting message. The door of salvation has never closed since Calvary. EGW did not have anything correct in her vision of the Shut Door!
The Investigative Judgment does not enlighten God.
Heb 4:13 (NIV) Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
The Investigative Judgment does not enlighten Angels. Angels know what is written in the Books.
The Investigative Judgment does not enlighten the dead or the Living of their status with God.
What the I J does do is this: It keeps the Adventist members in a state of uncertainty to whether or not their sins have been forgiven. The I J robs them of the assurance of their sins being forgiven and blotted out immediately. EGW tells her followers that their "repentant" sins are not canceled and will not be blotted out till the White Throne Judgment in Revelation 12. This is heresy! The sins of repentant sinners are forgiven and blotted out immediately by Christ.
EGW: The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel the sin; it would stand on record in the sanctuary until the final atonement; so in the type the blood of the sin offering removed the sin from the penitent, but it rested in the sanctuary until the Day of Atonement.
In the great day of final award, the dead are to be "judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12. Then by virtue of the atoning blood of Christ, the sins of all the truly penitent will be blotted from the books of heaven. Thus the sanctuary will be freed, or cleansed, from the record of sin. In the type, this great work of atonement, or blotting out of sins, was represented by the services of the Day of Atonement--the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary, which was accomplished by the removal, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, of the sins by which it had been polluted. Patriarchs and Prophets, pp, 357,358.
The SDA Church has used EGW's non-Biblical doctrine to explain the failure of Christ Second Coming in 1843,1844 and in 1845 and to support their prophet's vision.
There will be a Judgment after the Second Coming of Christ, called The a "Great White Throne" where the books are opened and where the wicked were thrown in the lake of fire. See, Revelation 20:11. Opening the books is not to inform God or Angels of the saved or the lost, but as a witness against those that are lost.
The passages of Scripture relied upon to justify the I J teachings under consideration are by no means numerous. A careful examination of the few that are relied upon will reveal that these passages either entirely disprove the theory, or else provide for it no support whatever.
Acts 3:19 (NIV) Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 2:38 (NIV) Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter was not telling his listeners that "blotting out of sins" was a future event, but a present event when the times of refreshing would take place. This is when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. This was not an 1844 event for the dead in an I J.
@@JessicaPottorff030612 I’d like you to show me where Ellen White ever calls herself a prophet please, and while you’re about it consider 2 Samuel 7; 1 Chronicles 17 and tell me if we should call Nathan a false prophet? then turn to the book of Jonah who made a prediction which didn’t come true, and tell me, shall we call him a false prophet as well?
Let’s hear what a non SDA has to say -
Prophets aren’t Fortunetellers or Meteorologists (by C. A. Strine)
How does one explain with any intellectual honesty a Second Coming that Jesus said would come soon but didn’t? …..we believe it comes down to how one understands “predictive prophecy.”
We think that the statements about Jesus’ return in the Gospels are prophecies, which aren’t meant to be predictions of future events. Now that really sounds weird.
Except, it isn’t.
When most people read something called prophecy, especially predictive prophecy, they assume that the statements about the future intend to describe accurately what the prophet understands, through divine inspiration, will actually happen in the future.
We tend to think of prophets like divine meteorologists providing a long-term forecast. Predictions of doom and gloom or images of abundant blessing are taken to be statements about what the future will be like. That’s what prophets do: they tell us now about what things will be like then, some time in the future.
Only that’s not what the Old Testament tells us.
The Book of Jeremiah comes closest to giving a model for how predictive prophecy works, and it is rather different than the “predict the future” model.
Indeed, Jeremiah makes it very clear that some predictive prophecy *** is not meant to come pass at all.***
Let’s look at Jeremiah 18:5-10. This passage explains that God reserves the possibility to change course even after the prophet who speaks on God’s behalf predicts blessing or cursing.
Then the word of the LORD came to me: Can I not do with you, O house of Israel, just as this potter has done? says the LORD. Just like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.
In other words, God may not send the predicted punishment if the people repent, or conversely withhold a predicted blessing if the people do evil in God’s sight.
Statements about the future are descriptions of how bad it might be, or how abundant God’s blessing could be. It all depends on what people do.
Prophecies are conditional statements. Predictive prophecies explain what is on offer, not what has already been decided.
This dynamic is highlighted later in Jeremiah (ch. 26, to be exact). After having prophesied the destruction of the Temple-obviously not a popular position in Jerusalem-the priests, the prophets, and all the people condemn Jeremiah to death (vv. 7-9) because of his prediction of doom.
But then the elders of the land recall that Micah had predicted a similar fate for Jerusalem. They also recall that, on that occasion, Hezekiah (the king reigning at that time) didn’t try to eliminate Micah because he was irked by his dire prophecy; rather, the threat of destruction provoked Hezekiah to plead with God to spare Jerusalem.
And God did. Crisis averted.
Micah’s prophecy didn’t come to pass, but drove Hezekiah to change his ways. And that made him a good prophet. A very good one indeed.
Prophecy does not simply seek to predict the future, but to change the present. The potential of future disaster is meant to change current behavior, to motivate people to repent, to turn back to God, and to live in a way that will persuade God to hold back judgment.
Or, when blessing is promised, prophecy aims to encourage people to persevere in following God’s commands, to do so with all the more conviction, and to remind them that backsliding into rebellion might convince God not to bestow the good things offered to them at all.
Prophets want to activate certain behaviors in their audiences, not prognosticate future events. They are like parents warning children against foolish behavior and encouraging good behavior, not weather forecasters attempting to tell you whether or not you’ll need an umbrella at noontime tomorrow.
======
Now I ask you by contrast to show that God did not point out Ellen Gould Harmon White as His chosen vessel in His role given her in 1 Corinthians 14:3 and that she is not identified by Him in His very own words spoken in
Numbers 12:6Then He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream.
…to be doing His work according to His purpose being lead by the same Holy Spirit who inspired Martin Luther and the other protestant reformers as also The many many ministers in His service whom we are instructed not to judge since to Him alone they give account and not to us.
Is it not written to hold onto that which is good?
1 Thessalonians 5:
19Do not quench the Spirit.
20Do not despise prophecies.
21Test all things;
***hold fast what is good. ***
22Abstain from every form of evil.
So is this what you are doing or are you perhaps finding yourself nurturing the character traits of the tribe of Dan which is excluded from entering into the kingdom of God according to Revelation 7, identified as
Genesis 49:16“Dan shall judge his people
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17Dan shall be a serpent by the way,
A viper by the path,
That bites the horse’s heels
So that its rider shall fall backward.
As those who cause the gospel message to fall backwards hmmm?
Remember Amos 3:7; John 14:6; 17:17; Psalm. 119:105,151 are quite clear - now if you do wish to say something then tell me if you keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, the one Jesus kept (Luke 4:16; 23:54-56; John 15:10) and told us to keep (John 15:19; 1 John 2:3-6) or be called liars…hmm?
@@JessicaPottorff030612 btw you can read more of this theory in Daniel 7:9-10, Ezekiel 18:4-32, Revelation 20:11-15, Matthew 7:2, 21-23, Matthew 25:31-46.
Now, which of those theories about judgement are you standing against? I would hope none of them.
No, the bible clearly teaches that there is a great day of Judgement, it teaches that there are books in Heaven, and if your name is not found in the book of life, you are judged according to your sins.
Now if a judgement is pre-decided we call it a kangaroo court. God does not run a kangaroo court.
In God’s court each case is carefully and thoroughly studied, or in other words, investigated. No other way would be acceptable to God Who does everything in the light where it is visible to all. He does not do this for himself, he does this for all the universe to see so that everyone will acknowledge that his judgement is righteous.
This is what every father, mother, brother, sister, husband or wife has a deep interest in. Everyone should have a deep interest in a thorough investigative, deep and fair judgement.
@@annettemacintosh117 Summary of Doctrinal Beliefs, Number 20. "The church is to come behind in no gift, and the presence of the gift of the Spirit of prophecy is to be one of the identifying marks of the remnant church. (I Cor. 1:5-7; 12:1-28; Amos 3:7; Hosea 12:10, 13; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.) Seventh-day Adventists recognize that this gift was manifested in the life and ministry of Ellen G. White."
As you can see the candidate is taught that Ellen G. White had the "Spirit of Prophecy." But when the candidate is quizzed before the church they use the "Vows" which does not mention EGW in the "Baptismal Vow and Baptism number 8".
Vow number 8. "Do you accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and do you believe that the gift of prophecy in the remnant church is one of the identifying marks of that church?" (See pp. 39, 40, 293.)
To the candidate, the remnant church is the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and the gift of prophecy is given to Ellen G. White their prophetess. So if you did not hear Ellen G. White mentioned in your vows, this is the reason, you had already agreed to it in your indoctrination. And when the church hears the vows it is assumed by all that you have accepted Ellen White. If any non-Adventist visitors are present they will not think anything cultic has transpired, which they would if the pastor asked, "do you accept Ellen G. White as having the "Spirit of Prophecy"? They would ask, "Who is Ellen G. White," that you are accepting before you can be baptized into Christ?
You need to invite a proficient SDA leader like Doug Batchelor on your show instead of “I think” or “I’m not sure” so called x-SDAs. These are obviously way off.
Why are you removing my comments apologia, I taught you weren't afraid of debate?
I'm an ex Adventist but i was only there for a year. I grew up jw so i ask, what church can i look for? God bless