I love the slaanehi detachment in terms of flavor! One thing to note is the redirecting damage strat is great with the contorted epitome because it is converted into mortal wounds. Her 4+fnp finally gets useful
@@beefymrjam6 inch deep strike is still a 6 inch charge as you have to deploy wholly outside of 6 inches, so at least 6.1 inches away, making it still a 6 inch charge
Correction for the nurgle one: the aura is only for enemies. Enemies within 9” of the nurgle units are considered in the shadow. Does not mention allies. Correction for Slaanesh one: The map wide battleshock thing: most of your units would have around 6 leadership and an innate +1 from being in shadow in the warp so you’re mostly testing battleshock on a 6. It’s honestly a good chance of passing and regenerating models. Still risky though yeah.
@@auspextactics Other small correction, the Blood Legion enhancement that makes your deadly demise go off on a 2+ only gets boosted if you've killed an enemy unit, not just a model.
@@stephenhumphreys9149 Put it on winged daemon prince and have him kill a leader with precision and watch the bloodflow when it inevitably dies around 4 enemy units
Art of War seems to think that the Tzeench one is pretty darn strong, especially with the Strat that takes two units out of engagement range into reserves. If you do this at the end of the opponents turn, you can also just impose that your opponent has a flux token, and gain either 1 or 2 if you have the enhancement.
Okay looking through the abilities of just nurgle demons you could theoretically cause a maximum of 7 battle shock a battle round on one unit. Plus if you can mange it, all those test could theoretically be at -2 to the leadership roll. If you’re lucky and have the Cankerblight enhancement then that could be 7 models removed(excluding monsters or vehicles) for just one unit
@@Silverdragon83X Can't score when you're dead and there's almost nothing here to keep Nurgle daemons alive longer. They don't do enough damage either and the new rules do very little to help that. Spamming battleshock is too unreliable to be a build-around theme. Just ask Night Lords "How's that workin' for ya?" (Use Dr. Phil's voice)
Its funny how the Slaanesh and Khorne aura relic is essentially the same except the Slaanesh one is just +1 to wound instead of lance. They gave Slaanesh a rule to be able to fall back and charge in the same turn but decided to give the lance one to Khorne. Oh, and the Slaanesh one is 5 less points.
It's worth noting that for the Slaanesh battleshock strat, it only effects units in the shadow so you'll be getting a +1 to your role. In addition, Seekers and daemonettes have a banner that brings their leadership to 6+, so in effect everything that's not a Chariot or fiends will be testing on a 5+ which is very reliable. Its pretty much a 1CP armywide heal
There's a mostly overlooked aspect of the Slaanesh detachment I haven't seen a lot of people talking about so far: you can afford to let your opponent attack first in combats with fewer attacks but more dangerous hits because the entire army has invuln saves, so you're much more likely than any standard army to just bounce nasty hits that would otherwise shred squads
You have a 5+ invlun save sure, but you're lacking any armor save to help you against the weaker attacks, even a squad of guardsmen can take down some daemonettes, and now you're suddenly having to do the math on if losing some of your daemonettes before the attack will still make you profit damage from the rerolls, especially when daemonettes already have rerolling 1s to hit, or rerolling all hits on an objective. For such a fast moving low toughness glass cannon army I think this ability is overrated and a bit of a trap.
The Improbable Shield is a bit better than it's being given credit for here, I think. Since it's a 4+ FNP against Mortals it makes it a lot safer for Tzeentch Daemons to throw around their Hazardous psychic powers, which could be particularly impactful for models like the Changecaster who only has 3 Wounds. There's also pretty much no army in the game that doesn't have access to some version of Grenades and/or Tank Shock, which are both attractive ways to get past the high Toughness and 4++ of most big Daemons.
I like that the blurb says "they don't work with mortals" in the article when all indications and rumors are they will very much be working with mortals in some capacity in the future
Except that if they don't fail, you get nothing. Historically every single save or suck based setup has been shit. Since you can't halfway battle shock. No consistency.
I want to make a joke about how Nurgle is dirty...... but yes it definetly got the weakest. If it works it's alot of MW's and healing and objective control.... but if it doesn't you basically got nothing.
I swear to God, I’m trying to enjoy the new toys but I’m literally seeing red at the prospect of my newest, favorite army potentially not getting a codex.
I feel you, it's driving me nuts that it's even being speculated. My big peeve has always been how the traitor legions are called Chaos Space Marines, but not every legion embraces chaos and now on top of it, we might get all the daemon units stuffed into our Astartes codexes, blurring the lines even further.
It's not going away. 4 detachments doesn't mean shit. GW said they are usable WITH a codex so everyone assumes Daemons won't get one. This is GW. They could go back on their word and copy/paste the 5 detachments into a codex, update/change datasheets, add new datasheets (like every codex has received) and charge us $60 for what is essentially free right now. It's how the indexes have worked so far. 😅😅
What's the problem here? You have 5 detachments, and that's really all the faction could ever be. 1 for undivided, 4 for each god. Can't really expand Daemons beyond that. You have everything your faction could ever want, and it's all going to be tournament legal no matter what. So stop fucking complaining.
I wish the tzeench one just had another paragraph in the rules that added like 6" to their ranged attacks or something. they are the ranged demons but they for the most part have 12"range which is abysmal
18 годин тому+1
It’s an enhancement that goes on monsters. Lets you pick an ally within 6” and use them to determine range for shooting. Seems like it’ll mostly be good on LoC but the extra cast distance should be nice
The lack of direct damage buffs to the Tzeench one screams overcorrection for the dominance Flamers of Tzeentch have had as allies and direct detachments. I don't think the Flux gimmick is as game-killing as you think it is, but the detachment does feel like it's avoiding direct damage buffing as a result of all the template-esque weapons Tzeentch has been throwing about lately.
I do wish we had some additional rule that gave us a psychic damage buff or extra range, but lets not act like "+3S and -1AP" to any models attack is not a significant damage buff to anyone. S8 AP 2 Flamers? S13 LoC or Kairos? S9 Screamers. It's costly but that is a huge damage buff when you really want to use it.
@ I can currently but it looks like we’re heading towards the AoS route were Chaos Daemons are split up by god and put with the mortal followers. I’m hoping that we will still in the future be able to play Chaos Daemons as we can now
Nurgle/Death Guard design seems to just completely stump GW. Can’t let them have any actual damage capability because then we’re stepping on the toes of other chaos armies whose only thing is damage. Can’t be too tanky because then tournament sweatlords and casuals alike hate dealing with things that can’t die easily to a swift breeze and thus take up their time. What are they suppose to or allowed to do?
9:31 no it's not like heroique intervention bacause you can declare a charge in the movement of the opponent. You can use this strat on the unit that was in engement range and recharge the unit that fellback so you are still in combat before the shooting phase.
@@salamanda550 yeah, like they did with world eaters, starting from few berzerker models(or single one, can't remember), and showing us whole range soon after that. But they might as well show us whole initial range right away, or at least part of that range.
Tz Ficklefire might allow you to shoot out a blocking unit and then assault some expanding Pinks/blues/yellows onto an protected unit holding an objective behind.... (or engage a protected shooting unit to prevent fire).
I think these detachment rules shows how GW shouldn’t split the deities for daemons. Maybe have rules for when they link up with their respective CSM legion. But keep a chaos undivided mixture.
I feel like if they started with the daemons being in each legion book it would have made sense to add more variety to those armies and so they can make them fit the army rules better. But it seems kind of lame to give the ability to play a mix of them and take that away. I don’t know if I’d ever actually get around to it, but I like the idea of a Chaos Undivided daemon list more then one mixed with Chaos Space Marines if I ever got some Daemon models.
We are going to get Something shitty... They did Literrally Change nothing at Points or Stats... So GW does Not Care and will Just give another detachment which might be fluffy, but Not helpfull
I'd say that Khorne detachment is probably the final nail in the coffin of Bringers of Flame. Trying to get all a unit's models within 6" for the Strength boost seems basically suicidal against it.
I don't have the models for Slannesh, but I love the idea of taking them against a Tau list that can't fight at all, although you probably don't need the buffs vs them. Khorne is my go to and I like the theme and ideas for that detachment. I'm not sure it will be any stronger than the Mixed detachment but should be fun. I'm also thinking the Nurgle one will be worth a try, I have a Knight abominant and a couple of skull cannons to force more tests. Beasts, plague drones, a soul grinder, Belakor and GUO should make for a horrible list with high durablity that can just sit and control the mid board and dish out mortals and chip damage.
Who is actually asking for daemons to be split? In no world do i want tzeentch daemons with my thousand sons. They dont fill gaps in roles and make balancing the army a hell of a lot harder. Just started building world eaters, and same issue. They do the same thing, no additional roles are filled.
It also means neither World Eaters or 1kSons will see any new actual CSM models until at least 12th edition at the very earliest opportunity as well... There's mounting evidence that part of GW's dragging out the releases for 10th has been to soften the "oops - sorry, no more daemons as a stand alone army!" blow for those players. They wait to begin this whole 'folding in' process with EC's, who odds are, won't launch until August/Sept next year, leaving only about 4-5 months or so of 10th to go by the time the full general release is on store shelves. Then GW would use the, "hey, you're getting like 12+ units of Daemons - shut up about more models!!" as an excuse to ignore giving attention to DG/1kSons/WE's in 11th So yeah, we get to keep enjoying our 2-4 datasheet option "armies", meanwhile factions who don't need any more models like Guard, Eldar, 'Nids, 'Crons, Orks, etc... will all get another 20+ release waves. >.>
@@fateweaver9844 You say that like GW won't deliberately kill a whole part of their market for BS reasons. Just ask Age of Sigmar fans of Beasts of Chaos, whose whole army are being banished to The Old World, seemingly just to make it so the main studio and Special Games Studio aren't selling the same model range. Despite that there's almost certainly a bigger market among AoS customers than Old World ones, simply due to OW's bigger barriers to entry. Corporations are not hyper-rational, doing everything for the purpose of eking out more money. They make frequent and catastrophic mistakes.
Ficklefire lets your Burning Chariot fire while engaged, which it usually can't due to being Mounted. And you are free to safely fire at other things than whatever chaff is tagging you, which you can still deal with in the Fight Phase.
@@Basically_Anybody in 10th they’ll prob just keep the index around for him/undivided daemons, and assuming daemons still don’t have a codex in 11th they’ll probably put him in codex chaos space marines like vashtorr.
Good on them to realize the easy cheese of the flux rules would be to force your oppone to use their tokens then just horde them so the player can't use stronger strats and more re-rolls. So they remembered to still give you one if the opponent is holding any of them. But I also like theidea that the opponent can benefit from flux as well, though obviously the tzeentch player will have the most value out of them.
I stand ready to serve the prince of pain and pleasure. I'm so in love with this detachment! I'm pretending all my nurgle models can't see what's happening, but the Raucous Bacchus Company will be eating great!
Concerning the Slaughterthirst Aura; it overlaps with the Bloodmaster's ability which can be attached to a unit of bloodletters; the Skullmaster is the one that can be attached with the bloodcrushers. I'd love for someone to tell me where I'm wrong, because I'd love run a leaner but stronger list, but it seems odd that it costs 35 points. I guess you could surround a Bloodthirster with weaker units for +1 to hit and wound, though since the unit itself wouldn't benefit I don't know how useful that'd be.
Maaan. I didnt start demons to play an army with no variation. All in one colour, the same themes. I have a very diverse army, and I love it. If this is real, then I won't have 4 armies, I will have the forgotten elements of 4 other armies. How would Marine players feel if their armies were split into "fast", "melee", "shooty", "tough", and they had no way of combining them going forward? Or Aeldari for that sake? Absolute horseshit. If GW actually presses this button, then that will probably be it for me and my involvement in their games. If I wanted to play World Eaters, I would play world eaters. I don't. If I wanted to play Thousand Sons, I would play Thousand Sons. I do in fact have some Thousand Sons, and it is a miserable army to play for me and my opponent, and has been for all of 10th. No thanks. If I wanted to play Death Guard, I would play Death Guard. I don't. If I wanted to play EC, I would play EC. I don't.
JUST PLAY FUCKING INDEX DAEMONS YOU NUMBSKULL, THIS SET OF DETACHMENTS ISN'T REPLACING THAT! GW THEMSELVES SAY THESE WORK _ALONGSIDE_ INDEXES NOT REPLACING THEM! YOU THINK TSONS PLAYERS ARE GONNA ONLY BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GROTMAS DETACHMENT NOW?
18 годин тому
You don’t have an army right now. You have a mess of character datasheets divided into 4 distinct sections with no synergy. If they folded the codices you would have 4 armies to play with distinct rules instead of the illusion of choice where you always stack one *maybe* two gods
Not about Khorne enchant: You can not get +2 to wounds, since your capped to +1 -1 to wound rolls as well. Blood master gives his squad +1 to wounds as his leader ability. Lance gives +1 to the wound roll. So this kinda isnt the best use since the only time it does anything is if your getting -1 to wound. Not the best. Can put it on a Demon prince whos giving stealth, then you can basically skip Blood masters. OR you can put it on a Demon prince with wings and push him forward with blood hounds
Ok for balance tzeentch isnt the strongest, but for dumb fun it seems the most entertaining. We both reroll, and i can just say no to a random number for melee its just really funny.
Add to the rumour of 4 daemon codex ? Feels more like the opposite to me. They've just proven they can make deity specific detachment for a single daemon codex.
I don't see them getting four Detachments as evidence that they're not getting a codex, mostly because I don't see what they could have given them that wouldn't have been a total miss for most Daemon players.
This is honestly the main thing staying my hand from being _certain_ it's proof of a squatted codex. They could have gone with a "Legion of Bel'akor" detachment, but people would have groaned at the thought of yet another Undivided detachment.
Charge a unit with two slaanesh units. Let's say demonettes and fiends. Attack with demonettes, chose seduce with fiends. Activate thieves of pain to shove damage off of fiends. Hit wil full reroll full hp fiends. Orgasm.
Yeah, a lot of people complaining about Slaanesh units being paper and unable to resist a counterattack before their swing really aren't considering Thieves of Pain. The ability to have a cheap, throwaway unit that can fight and then absorb the counterattack on someone else is extremely good even before we factor in the full rerolls. The one "shame" (so to speak, it's reasonable) is that the KoS can't benefit from it, though the Exalted Chariot can.
I really feel sorry for the people collecting Daemons Undivided. I doubt it will be a Deathwatch situation where the fan outcry makes GW make a revised index that still works in 10th. Chaos doesn't really get the same treatment the loyalists do. Though it still feels like this blunts the blow at least a little bit.
Definitely some usability in these but the main detachment is better in almost every way. I think the Nurgle detachment is the biggest loser. It simply doesn’t make sense fluff wise. They needed some clouds of flies with some types of negatives to hit or a FNP or a type of Damage reduction. Anything that is actually based on Nurgle! Huge missed opportunity, unfortunately. Will still try to make some cool lists with the other detachments though.
The main detachment is pretty reliant on deep strike shenanigans and only has 2 usable stratagems now… with the right army list these ones definitely can compete with it, swapping out secondary shenanigans for area denial and actual damage boosts (except for poor nurgle, I dunno why GW keep trying to make battleshock detachments work they are always the weakest). EDIT: I wouldn’t say the nurgle one isn’t fluffy, despair is apart of nurgle’s domain and representing disease as battleshock isn’t a hard sell… the only issue is that battleshock sucks as a mechanic
@@jacket2848 no, I completely understand it and the power. Mixing KOS and fiends, demonettes and such can be very powerful mixing who attacks first and getting the re rolls. Definitely strong. I’m just thinking of the overall strength of the index detachment. It has a good mix of ways to get to combat, extra ap, better saves, pick up and down and ways to get the army where it has to, when it has to and be able to survive walls of shooting. New detachments can put out damage, I just feel they’re not as flexible .
@@scotiansaint5679 That's kind of the point of these detachments, no? The index is flexible and allows for adjustments, however it lacks a kind of staying power or way to direct the flow of battle. If anybody denies your deep strikes or ability to control objectives, you can't control the battle. In a specialized detachment now you have a prerogative or a goal that has a direct focus. Khorne getting sticky on a kill, deadly demise on 2+, extra charge distance all of which are good for pushing up the board and snowballing. That detachment plays very much like a steamroller spreading across the board like a tide and hammering your opponent into their deployment zone. Tzeentch is focused on resource management for buffing your strats and ability output, with the catch of your enemy having to also use this, which makes you stronger. And if the enemy does not bite, you get even more powerful with an enhancement. Slaanesh, as stated, can do crazy high mortal wound output which is nice for punching above your weight class. Nurgle however seems to be a pseudo-shadow-of-chaos with focus on battleshock, which is not optimal but has a chance to shut down your opponent from using key strats like Reinforcements, Command Reroll, AoC, etc. Battleshock can also potentially steal an objective away on a full health unit (much like a weaker version of Shadow in the Warp for Tyranids). Generalist and flexible detachments are good don't get me wrong, but most of the time they do struggle decently in achieving staying power or pressure. The current index lacks a core rule that isn't reliant on deep strikes, if your opponent knows what they are doing, they will screen you out as best they can to deny your bonuses. I'm sorry for the rant, I have a friend who plays Chaos Daemons and they crafted hundreds of strategies but they also fight lots of horde armies in our current crusade and their Warp Rift maneuvers have been getting denied hard by chaff screens (Orks, BT, T'au, Militarum, Sisters, Necrons, and CSM were what the rest of us play).
Great to see the daemons on the path of mirroring AOS. Get our daemons aligned with specific legions and have rules that properly reflect them without being a compromised mess like the 9th edition codex. Then put Belakor and Daemon Prince in a Chaos Undivided codex with one or two undivided detachments that buff Daemonica allies.
Not so fun when you go from having a diverse army to having scrap for 4 armies - armies you would already have if you so desired. Do the same for Aeldar. For Space Marines. Now you ONLY use Assaulty units marines. ONLY Shooty. ONLY Durable. And you cannot mix and match them. Not very fun for the marine players, is it? And this is not very fun for Daemons at all. Especially not when you can just have detachments that encourage either single god Daemons, or even mixed lists, and still keeping daemons as a coherent army.
@KoltoMephet I have a full demons army mate - have for the past 3 editions - and im excited for the change. This is why ally rules are a thing, to mix and match while still having a clearly identifiable theme to the army: best of both worlds.
@@DPD1 ? That same argument goes both ways, just ally daemons into you X legion lmao. But if Undivided/mixed daemons gets squatted or relegated to Power Armor sidekicks, you will have FEWER options for play, not more. And that is not touching upon people who will go from having a diverse, versatile army with the current ability to mix and match in codex, to having the scraps of several armies they might have no interest in playing whatsoever.
It's not happening. It's not going to be good for Daemon players. It's going to hurt GW sales. You are lying to yourself if you want Daemons as a standalone alone army done away with. GW will win with both Chaos sides if the Daemon codex has flexible allies rules. Too restrictive now.
haha I love that Tzeentch stuff but doesn't sound that great if you actually want to win. lots of rerolls but instead of a normal cost your opponent gets the rerolls you've used
Watch Art of Wars review. The rule is actually quite strong. You are going to use it mainly for buffing your stratagems which are extremely powerful. If your opponent hoards the tokens thinking he'll deny you your buffs you get 2 in command phase. If he uses 1 on a reroll you have 3, he only has 2. As long as you aren't spamming them you will always have token advantage. If he spends all of them you now have 5, he has 0. Spending the tokens on stratagems DOES NOT give any to your opponent. So, spend 4, reroll with one, gives your opponent a token and then next command phase you are at 3 tokens. Rinse, repeat
@@fateweaver9844 No, spending on stratagems absolutely still gives your opponent the token. The rule says "Flux tokens can also be spent to enhance the effect of some stratagems. Each time you spend a flux token reduce the number of tokens you have by one, and your opponent gains one flux token."
As a Slaanesh fan, I was not impressed. The only time to use this would be against things like vehicles that don't fight well, or against things you know you are going to stomp; like mop up duty for a Keeper. Losing the ability to attack first does not seem helpful with models that are not tough or durable. Sure rerolls are cool, but not helpful when ⅔ of your models got killed before they could fight. 🤷🏻♂️
You're right, they are absolut Glas canons and losing Fight First is the Sure death for demonetts... Against some tanks it can be good with syllesske... And in the old detachment the enhancements are much stronger
Yeah. If only you had been given an option to shunt away all damage you're getting. Like, to something with a 4+++ against mortal wounds. Can you imagine that being possible? But sadly it is not possible, and thus the ability to get _full rerolls_ on whichever unit you want is utter trash. Pity. 😮💨
Demons are a hodgepodge army. It makes more sense to update their range peace meal via the dedicated God ranges. If 40k is going to integrate demons and mortals like AoS, that means their "Year of Chaos" can piggy back releases between 8 books over 2 games for 12 months. The 4 detachments could simply be a heads up that the Demon book isn't coming anytime soon, but could come after all the 20 year old kits have been refreshed in like 2026. I don't see why integrating demons and mortals has to assume the dissolution of Chaos Demons as a codex. I could easily be huffing Copium, but I think mixed demons are fun, and it'd be a shame to "legends" the concept.
the tzeentch one is absolutely garbage, giving your opponent free Command points and also giving them a chance to hit you for free, theres no upside to any of these abilities, meanwhile khorne and slaanesh is just pure killing power.
The tranceweaver’s ability only works against battleshocked units… it was already invalidated by itself XD. But it does mean that if you are charging a battledhocked unit you don’t need to risk loosing fight first… so the tranceweaver still has a niche here as a safety net (plus she gives fight first which lets face it is the reason you bring her)
@Swampert919 I was specifically talking about the fights first part. The rules says "loses fights first" instead of something like "does not gain fights first after successfully completing a charge."
@@allenfinkenaur5001 the point of giving a unit the fight first ability in their datasheet is to deter opponents from charging them, not to help them in the charge. So why would it invalidate the tranceweaver to loose her built in fight first when doing the gambit when the entire reason you want fights first is to counter enemy charges… And it def won’t get errata’d, GW 100% worded it like that specifically so units that already have fights first can’t abuse it to get the buff for free.
@@Swampert919 all I meant was there doesn't seem any reason to take her over other options for demonettes since you don't get the gambit rerolls and fights first and her battle shock rule overlaps the detachment one.
@@allenfinkenaur5001 the reason you take her over any other option is the same as always, giving fights first to daemonettes helps protect them from melee threats and when you’re as squishy as daemonettes you need all the protection you can get protection (plus let’s face it, the other options for leading daemonettes are one that only returns D3 models each round which is useless on them, a 4+ FNP vs psychic and mortals which is niche at best, or a named character that’s twice the cost… tranceweaver is still one of the best options for supporting daemonettes and the only viable one that can take enhancements…).
While we're on thd topic of factions not needing a codex to themselves, lets just roll all the space marines into the core coxex from now on. Clearly there isnt a need to separate them into a separate faction if the darmons roster doesnt need to. We already folded harlequins into the eldar, and now daemons too. No reason not to.
@@prestonjohnson1537 it’s not that daemons don’t need a codex, it’s that trying to squeeze 4 completely different armies into the same codex doesn’t exactly work and has caused quite a few issues over the years… splitting them out actually benefits the mono god armies by letting them properly lean into their own identities. Not saying that there isn’t an argument that space marines don’t need so many codexes, but if GW split daemons it’s to try and help them not to spite them.
@@Swampert919 Except it's not splitting them. It's getting rid of them and making them units in other factions. I have absolutely no faith that they'll do them any good like that just like the kroot in tau don't have much if you wanted to play only them. They'll just be as useless as any faction folded into another. Even in AOS, which people use as justification why they should, the daemons in those armies are just terrible. You only ever take them when the points are made cheap enough to outweigh the awful rules they have.
@ you say the only reason you take them in AoS is when they are cheap enough but that’s literally all chaos daemons are currently, the internal balance of daemons is always bad because there’s no reason to not take the few good units and ignore all the ones with awful rules… which is most of them. the alternative is still better And it is splitting them, you’d still be able to play full daemon armies if you want and even if they are unviable competitively that’s literally no different to mono god armies now… it’s still better for say khorne daemons to be unviable while in an army that gives them access to world eater’s blessings of khorne than them being unviable in an army that’s catering to tzeentch, nurgle, and slaanesh instead.
I disagree about the nurgle detachment it so so flavourful, its a great debuff detachment that wittles down your enemy as they cant kill your units. You win by having beefy things sit on objectives its perfect for nurgle and very flavourful
Should the Flux rule be that each time your opponent uses one Flux dice, you gain TWO? That way ypur opponent is tempted to use this arcane power that's fallen to them, but to do so only makes Tzeench STRONGER...
Id be fine with them breaking up the Chaos Demons into 4 mini codex's. Keep the $60 price tag on it, BUUUUUT when you buy it you get all 4. Since they are going to quite effing small.
Tbf so long as we can still run undivided daemons some how (like an index or a detachment for it in codex CSM) and aren’t forced to take mortals it honestly won’t suck all that much… mono gods is at worst the same and at best far more functional and the undivided players still have an option.
It makes perfect sense for an army though. Yeah, different daemons "working together", or being present together and with a common enemy, is not unheard of. Is it standard or common? No, but neither is, say, blood angels where every special character is present or whatever. Our armies don't have to be typical or everyday. Tyranids aren't forced to bring at 100 gaunts along either now, are they? How come X primarch is present so often, or in such a small engagement? You see my point surely. Whats more, you could just have a detachment for each god that encourages or requires mono god building. Without fing over people who owns the army. Hell, you could then even also have indexes that mixes mortals and daemons. And Undivided one too ("Word Bearers"). But this is absolutely no win for someone who has a daemon army with more than one god in it. And even if you have one that is focused entirely around a single Deity, what makes you think it will anywhere close to fun/playable/competitive if you do not go out and buy marines? GW is horrible with often leaving half a range in the dumpster while the rest is all the good stuff. My Lord Discordant is collecting dust, and MAYBE, MAYBE it might be playable in 11th lmao.
Giving full re-rolls to hit and wound was too powerful on Oath of Moment, though. Don't you worry your little heads. We'll fix it by giving it to everyone else.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but isn't False Majesty just an objectively better Slaughterthirst? 5 points less and it doesn't require a charge. I don't play the Sex Demons so I have no idea what their army plays like.
@@BlackKaiserDrake khorne units hit much harder than slaanesh ones having higher strength, ap, and damage… so while yes slaughterthirst is weaker it’s buffing much scarier melee. Plus slaanesh units are pretty squishy, you’re gonna have an easier time keeping a khorne character alive and near the enemies than a slaanesh one… so makes sense for slaanesh enhancements to be a bit stronger with the assumption they won’t stay around as long.
I love the slaanehi detachment in terms of flavor! One thing to note is the redirecting damage strat is great with the contorted epitome because it is converted into mortal wounds. Her 4+fnp finally gets useful
Note @12:35 - Bloodletters and Skullcrushers already get +1” charge with the instrument, so for them it would be a 6” charge.
So it's a deepstrike at 9" with a 6" charge
Yup, instead of coming 6" away and getting a 5" charge, I like the fluff but I think I'll keep running the index
@@beefymrjam6 inch deep strike is still a 6 inch charge as you have to deploy wholly outside of 6 inches, so at least 6.1 inches away, making it still a 6 inch charge
@@MrReecenator But Bloodletters and Skullcrushers already get +1” charge with the instrument, so for them they would need to roll a 5
@MrReecenator yup but blood letters have a musician with a +1" to charge
In love with the flux rules. Wish we had more mechanics like this
Not +1 to hit or lethal hits I canz not undersea it
Correction for the nurgle one: the aura is only for enemies. Enemies within 9” of the nurgle units are considered in the shadow. Does not mention allies.
Correction for Slaanesh one: The map wide battleshock thing: most of your units would have around 6 leadership and an innate +1 from being in shadow in the warp so you’re mostly testing battleshock on a 6. It’s honestly a good chance of passing and regenerating models. Still risky though yeah.
Cheers, good points - I'd missed those!
@@auspextactics Other small correction, the Blood Legion enhancement that makes your deadly demise go off on a 2+ only gets boosted if you've killed an enemy unit, not just a model.
@@stephenhumphreys9149 Put it on winged daemon prince and have him kill a leader with precision and watch the bloodflow when it inevitably dies around 4 enemy units
Art of War seems to think that the Tzeench one is pretty darn strong, especially with the Strat that takes two units out of engagement range into reserves. If you do this at the end of the opponents turn, you can also just impose that your opponent has a flux token, and gain either 1 or 2 if you have the enhancement.
Okay looking through the abilities of just nurgle demons you could theoretically cause a maximum of 7 battle shock a battle round on one unit. Plus if you can mange it, all those test could theoretically be at -2 to the leadership roll. If you’re lucky and have the Cankerblight enhancement then that could be 7 models removed(excluding monsters or vehicles) for just one unit
If you plan around battleshock you'll never win a game
Night lords be like @@jacket2848
@@jacket2848 you actually do by scoring
@@Silverdragon83X Can't score when you're dead and there's almost nothing here to keep Nurgle daemons alive longer. They don't do enough damage either and the new rules do very little to help that. Spamming battleshock is too unreliable to be a build-around theme. Just ask Night Lords "How's that workin' for ya?" (Use Dr. Phil's voice)
@@JimH. Remember that battleshock in the shadow of chaos does mortal wounds on top of damage.
Its funny how the Slaanesh and Khorne aura relic is essentially the same except the Slaanesh one is just +1 to wound instead of lance. They gave Slaanesh a rule to be able to fall back and charge in the same turn but decided to give the lance one to Khorne. Oh, and the Slaanesh one is 5 less points.
It's worth noting that for the Slaanesh battleshock strat, it only effects units in the shadow so you'll be getting a +1 to your role. In addition, Seekers and daemonettes have a banner that brings their leadership to 6+, so in effect everything that's not a Chariot or fiends will be testing on a 5+ which is very reliable. Its pretty much a 1CP armywide heal
You’d be testing at 6+ as the +1 gets cancelled out by the -1 the stratagem causes… still pretty reliable in total.
@Swampert919 only for units below half strength though, anything else will test on 5s. Also means that enemies below half strength will test at -2
@@norabder8816oh yeah didn’t see that bit. Then yeah it’s very reliable.
@@norabder8816 do fiends have some way of doing -1 LD I don't know about?
@@angelaraiel My bad thats desperate escape not battleshock.
There's a mostly overlooked aspect of the Slaanesh detachment I haven't seen a lot of people talking about so far: you can afford to let your opponent attack first in combats with fewer attacks but more dangerous hits because the entire army has invuln saves, so you're much more likely than any standard army to just bounce nasty hits that would otherwise shred squads
You have a 5+ invlun save sure, but you're lacking any armor save to help you against the weaker attacks, even a squad of guardsmen can take down some daemonettes, and now you're suddenly having to do the math on if losing some of your daemonettes before the attack will still make you profit damage from the rerolls, especially when daemonettes already have rerolling 1s to hit, or rerolling all hits on an objective. For such a fast moving low toughness glass cannon army I think this ability is overrated and a bit of a trap.
I like these. They're all so cool and flavorful, especially Tzeentch and Slaaneesh
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
MILK FOR THE KHORN FLAKES
Pleasure for the pleasure god
Excess for the excess throne
BRASS FOR THE BRASS CITADEL!
BUTTER FOR THE KHORNE ON THE COB
Comments for the comments section, likes for the likes algorithm
The Improbable Shield is a bit better than it's being given credit for here, I think. Since it's a 4+ FNP against Mortals it makes it a lot safer for Tzeentch Daemons to throw around their Hazardous psychic powers, which could be particularly impactful for models like the Changecaster who only has 3 Wounds. There's also pretty much no army in the game that doesn't have access to some version of Grenades and/or Tank Shock, which are both attractive ways to get past the high Toughness and 4++ of most big Daemons.
except its not, MW's are incredibly niche and rare nowadays unless your playing against someone like deathguard or eldar.
I like that the blurb says "they don't work with mortals" in the article when all indications and rumors are they will very much be working with mortals in some capacity in the future
"Chaos Daemons do not share the agendas of mortals"
They're talking about Mortal Wounds. CD don't like their squishy units dealing with _INSTANT DEATH™_
Contorted epitome saves mortals on a 4+, which could be an easy way to keep a unit of daemonettes alive.
I LOVE the flickering reality stratagem for Tzeentch demons. So flavorful
Hell yeah mono god encouragements finally
except for Nurgle ... this is terrible.
encouragment will be an understatment considering theyre probably getting the aos treatment and getting sent to deity legions
@arnaud2987 Dude it's super cool. Forcing battle-shock which removes Oc, strategems, and does D3 mortals all over the place is very exciting.
Except that if they don't fail, you get nothing. Historically every single save or suck based setup has been shit. Since you can't halfway battle shock. No consistency.
They did nurgle dirty
Meanwhile, Slaanesh is sitting pretty and Tzeentch got something nice for a change
And Khorne is kind of in the same vein
I want to make a joke about how Nurgle is dirty...... but yes it definetly got the weakest. If it works it's alot of MW's and healing and objective control.... but if it doesn't you basically got nothing.
At least it's on brand.
I swear to God, I’m trying to enjoy the new toys but I’m literally seeing red at the prospect of my newest, favorite army potentially not getting a codex.
Bear in mind that we'd be getting a chaos undivided codex, just like AOS, with ally rules.
I feel you, it's driving me nuts that it's even being speculated. My big peeve has always been how the traitor legions are called Chaos Space Marines, but not every legion embraces chaos and now on top of it, we might get all the daemon units stuffed into our Astartes codexes, blurring the lines even further.
Ye, seeing everyone hate on undivided daemons really sucks. Having a multicoloured mess is very fun and very chaotic!
It's not going away. 4 detachments doesn't mean shit. GW said they are usable WITH a codex so everyone assumes Daemons won't get one.
This is GW. They could go back on their word and copy/paste the 5 detachments into a codex, update/change datasheets, add new datasheets (like every codex has received) and charge us $60 for what is essentially free right now.
It's how the indexes have worked so far. 😅😅
What's the problem here? You have 5 detachments, and that's really all the faction could ever be. 1 for undivided, 4 for each god. Can't really expand Daemons beyond that. You have everything your faction could ever want, and it's all going to be tournament legal no matter what.
So stop fucking complaining.
I wish the tzeench one just had another paragraph in the rules that added like 6" to their ranged attacks or something. they are the ranged demons but they for the most part have 12"range which is abysmal
It’s an enhancement that goes on monsters. Lets you pick an ally within 6” and use them to determine range for shooting.
Seems like it’ll mostly be good on LoC but the extra cast distance should be nice
The lack of direct damage buffs to the Tzeench one screams overcorrection for the dominance Flamers of Tzeentch have had as allies and direct detachments. I don't think the Flux gimmick is as game-killing as you think it is, but the detachment does feel like it's avoiding direct damage buffing as a result of all the template-esque weapons Tzeentch has been throwing about lately.
I do wish we had some additional rule that gave us a psychic damage buff or extra range, but lets not act like "+3S and -1AP" to any models attack is not a significant damage buff to anyone.
S8 AP 2 Flamers? S13 LoC or Kairos? S9 Screamers. It's costly but that is a huge damage buff when you really want to use it.
I play Daemons for Daemons I really want to be able to keep playing Chaos Daemons and not suddenly have a World Eaters army
... You still can, you know?
@ I can currently but it looks like we’re heading towards the AoS route were Chaos Daemons are split up by god and put with the mortal followers. I’m hoping that we will still in the future be able to play Chaos Daemons as we can now
Nurgle/Death Guard design seems to just completely stump GW.
Can’t let them have any actual damage capability because then we’re stepping on the toes of other chaos armies whose only thing is damage. Can’t be too tanky because then tournament sweatlords and casuals alike hate dealing with things that can’t die easily to a swift breeze and thus take up their time. What are they suppose to or allowed to do?
9:31 no it's not like heroique intervention bacause you can declare a charge in the movement of the opponent. You can use this strat on the unit that was in engement range and recharge the unit that fellback so you are still in combat before the shooting phase.
They have five detachments, this is their codex
Really loving fluffly rules, need more of it
I do wonder if the surprise announcement they teased for Friday might be "surprise, Codex Chaos Daemons, with a bunch of Undivided Detachments!"
We can hope.
Keep hitting that copium
It'll probably just be the official, "Hey, Emperor's Children" that we can all see coming
@Basically_Anybody That's my proper Guess haha. Showing off a model proper. Maybe a single Noise Marine.
@@salamanda550 yeah, like they did with world eaters, starting from few berzerker models(or single one, can't remember), and showing us whole range soon after that. But they might as well show us whole initial range right away, or at least part of that range.
Tz Ficklefire might allow you to shoot out a blocking unit and then assault some expanding Pinks/blues/yellows onto an protected unit holding an objective behind.... (or engage a protected shooting unit to prevent fire).
I see a lot of fun stuff for the khorne codex
I think these detachment rules shows how GW shouldn’t split the deities for daemons.
Maybe have rules for when they link up with their respective CSM legion. But keep a chaos undivided mixture.
I think the Index will remain around, there just won't be a new Daemon codex
Maybe next edition we get a chaos undivided codex along with the deity codexes
That's what the Index is for.
@@FhtagnCthulhu bring back furies!!!
With nurgle i think you missed the value of adding max Poxbringers to the party giving -1 to BS test making it -2
I feel like if they started with the daemons being in each legion book it would have made sense to add more variety to those armies and so they can make them fit the army rules better. But it seems kind of lame to give the ability to play a mix of them and take that away. I don’t know if I’d ever actually get around to it, but I like the idea of a Chaos Undivided daemon list more then one mixed with Chaos Space Marines if I ever got some Daemon models.
Man I really hope the world eaters detatchment is fun at least. If they make us wait this whole time just to drop some trash I'm gonna be really sad.
We are going to get Something shitty... They did Literrally Change nothing at Points or Stats... So GW does Not Care and will Just give another detachment which might be fluffy, but Not helpfull
Love the Flux rule very Narrative trying to tempt the opponent to use the flux as well
I'd say that Khorne detachment is probably the final nail in the coffin of Bringers of Flame. Trying to get all a unit's models within 6" for the Strength boost seems basically suicidal against it.
Oh no, one detachment from one army has killed Bringers of Flame because we all know Sororitas only play against Daemons.
@LordCrate-du8zm More accurately, one detachment from one army has dug up the corpse of Bringers and kicked it one last time for good measure.
@@Majere613 Bringers is still... okay. It's not great. But it's not flat unplayable.
I don't have the models for Slannesh, but I love the idea of taking them against a Tau list that can't fight at all, although you probably don't need the buffs vs them. Khorne is my go to and I like the theme and ideas for that detachment. I'm not sure it will be any stronger than the Mixed detachment but should be fun. I'm also thinking the Nurgle one will be worth a try, I have a Knight abominant and a couple of skull cannons to force more tests. Beasts, plague drones, a soul grinder, Belakor and GUO should make for a horrible list with high durablity that can just sit and control the mid board and dish out mortals and chip damage.
Who is actually asking for daemons to be split? In no world do i want tzeentch daemons with my thousand sons. They dont fill gaps in roles and make balancing the army a hell of a lot harder.
Just started building world eaters, and same issue. They do the same thing, no additional roles are filled.
It also means neither World Eaters or 1kSons will see any new actual CSM models until at least 12th edition at the very earliest opportunity as well...
There's mounting evidence that part of GW's dragging out the releases for 10th has been to soften the "oops - sorry, no more daemons as a stand alone army!" blow for those players. They wait to begin this whole 'folding in' process with EC's, who odds are, won't launch until August/Sept next year, leaving only about 4-5 months or so of 10th to go by the time the full general release is on store shelves.
Then GW would use the, "hey, you're getting like 12+ units of Daemons - shut up about more models!!" as an excuse to ignore giving attention to DG/1kSons/WE's in 11th
So yeah, we get to keep enjoying our 2-4 datasheet option "armies", meanwhile factions who don't need any more models like Guard, Eldar, 'Nids, 'Crons, Orks, etc... will all get another 20+ release waves. >.>
They won't be split. This rumor needs to die forever. GW will lose money if they do
@@fateweaver9844 You say that like GW won't deliberately kill a whole part of their market for BS reasons. Just ask Age of Sigmar fans of Beasts of Chaos, whose whole army are being banished to The Old World, seemingly just to make it so the main studio and Special Games Studio aren't selling the same model range. Despite that there's almost certainly a bigger market among AoS customers than Old World ones, simply due to OW's bigger barriers to entry.
Corporations are not hyper-rational, doing everything for the purpose of eking out more money. They make frequent and catastrophic mistakes.
@@Bluecho4 And again this rumor is DOA. Has been DOA since 6th edition. It's only recirculated for clicks and views
@@fateweaver9844 We'll see.
Ficklefire lets your Burning Chariot fire while engaged, which it usually can't due to being Mounted.
And you are free to safely fire at other things than whatever chaff is tagging you, which you can still deal with in the Fight Phase.
If Daemons don't get a codex, then where does Belakor go?
Maybe they'll just move him to AoS and remove him from 40k?
@@michaelfox6332 and throw out that Primaris model on his sprues
In all of them!
@@Basically_Anybody in 10th they’ll prob just keep the index around for him/undivided daemons, and assuming daemons still don’t have a codex in 11th they’ll probably put him in codex chaos space marines like vashtorr.
My first 40K army was Disciples of Be'lakor. My knights are all painted in his house colors... I hope they get SOMETHING.
Good on them to realize the easy cheese of the flux rules would be to force your oppone to use their tokens then just horde them so the player can't use stronger strats and more re-rolls. So they remembered to still give you one if the opponent is holding any of them. But I also like theidea that the opponent can benefit from flux as well, though obviously the tzeentch player will have the most value out of them.
I find myself very glad I’m about to print some Khorne daemon proxies.
With all of the changes to the game both with the data slate and the new detachment’s I’m eagerly looking forward to the new years tier list videos
14:58 first typo i have seen on the channel.
Grotmas finally got him.
As a mono nurgle player i am horribly disappointed but the very thought of regenerating a beast or nurgle makes me very happy
I stand ready to serve the prince of pain and pleasure. I'm so in love with this detachment! I'm pretending all my nurgle models can't see what's happening, but the Raucous Bacchus Company will be eating great!
Glad these guys finally got some fun rules
This is the most ballin shit ever and I will remain hopeful that they have more goodness cooking in the Daemon Codex and won't split the band up.
Concerning the Slaughterthirst Aura; it overlaps with the Bloodmaster's ability which can be attached to a unit of bloodletters; the Skullmaster is the one that can be attached with the bloodcrushers.
I'd love for someone to tell me where I'm wrong, because I'd love run a leaner but stronger list, but it seems odd that it costs 35 points. I guess you could surround a Bloodthirster with weaker units for +1 to hit and wound, though since the unit itself wouldn't benefit I don't know how useful that'd be.
Babe wake up, new Auspex Tactics video
Maaan. I didnt start demons to play an army with no variation. All in one colour, the same themes. I have a very diverse army, and I love it. If this is real, then I won't have 4 armies, I will have the forgotten elements of 4 other armies. How would Marine players feel if their armies were split into "fast", "melee", "shooty", "tough", and they had no way of combining them going forward? Or Aeldari for that sake? Absolute horseshit. If GW actually presses this button, then that will probably be it for me and my involvement in their games.
If I wanted to play World Eaters, I would play world eaters. I don't.
If I wanted to play Thousand Sons, I would play Thousand Sons. I do in fact have some Thousand Sons, and it is a miserable army to play for me and my opponent, and has been for all of 10th. No thanks.
If I wanted to play Death Guard, I would play Death Guard. I don't.
If I wanted to play EC, I would play EC. I don't.
So you can still play Index Demons...
JUST PLAY FUCKING INDEX DAEMONS YOU NUMBSKULL, THIS SET OF DETACHMENTS ISN'T REPLACING THAT! GW THEMSELVES SAY THESE WORK _ALONGSIDE_ INDEXES NOT REPLACING THEM! YOU THINK TSONS PLAYERS ARE GONNA ONLY BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GROTMAS DETACHMENT NOW?
You don’t have an army right now. You have a mess of character datasheets divided into 4 distinct sections with no synergy. If they folded the codices you would have 4 armies to play with distinct rules instead of the illusion of choice where you always stack one *maybe* two gods
*Gateway Unto Damnation 10pts* - Oh, this one a banger!
They really just need to go full digital with rules, and focus on selling plastic crack
The Surge move is once per turn per UNIT right? So each of you khorne Demon units can surge move once?
I can't wait to make a duelist Lord of Change with that melee enhancement and his sword.
Not about Khorne enchant:
You can not get +2 to wounds, since your capped to +1 -1 to wound rolls as well.
Blood master gives his squad +1 to wounds as his leader ability.
Lance gives +1 to the wound roll.
So this kinda isnt the best use since the only time it does anything is if your getting -1 to wound.
Not the best.
Can put it on a Demon prince whos giving stealth, then you can basically skip Blood masters.
OR you can put it on a Demon prince with wings and push him forward with blood hounds
The Nurgle detachment is laughably bad. The Slaanesh one seems the strongest of the four but I would still run index Daemons I think.
Tzeentch can just disapper 2 units every round from melee into reserves using a flux and then get 1flux back next phase.
You can get 2 back guaranteed with the enhancement
I’m probably getting my first ever daemons for Christmas.
Am I making a mistake? 😅
Made a 2 keeper with Shalaxi list for the detachment I wanna see played.
Can you do a break down of the Cauldron of War rules that came out in White Dwarf 506?
I really hope that if we get deity codexes that we can put some non-deity CSM. I like nurgle daemons but hate DG. I prefer EC, TS, and red corsairs.
I’m really new to Warhammer but I’m building deamons, what does this all mean now should I build only korne?
Ok for balance tzeentch isnt the strongest, but for dumb fun it seems the most entertaining. We both reroll, and i can just say no to a random number for melee its just really funny.
The fact that they still require people to buy outdated hard copy books to access ever changing online rules is just astoundingly crooked.
Add to the rumour of 4 daemon codex ? Feels more like the opposite to me.
They've just proven they can make deity specific detachment for a single daemon codex.
Gotta love the art for our own detatchments telling us "you don't matter, go play another flavor of space marines instead".
I don't see them getting four Detachments as evidence that they're not getting a codex, mostly because I don't see what they could have given them that wouldn't have been a total miss for most Daemon players.
This is honestly the main thing staying my hand from being _certain_ it's proof of a squatted codex. They could have gone with a "Legion of Bel'akor" detachment, but people would have groaned at the thought of yet another Undivided detachment.
so if you are lucky. someone has bs or hit on 6+ you use flickering reality get 6 and he cantr hit you...
If you roll a 6 they armies dont get crits against you for a bit but that's it I guess unless they have buffs that change their crit number.
this is ever for the suspicion that demons will be the last to get a codex or won't get one at all...
My khorne and tzeentch daemons are eating good!
Charge a unit with two slaanesh units. Let's say demonettes and fiends. Attack with demonettes, chose seduce with fiends. Activate thieves of pain to shove damage off of fiends. Hit wil full reroll full hp fiends. Orgasm.
As if Slaanesh would ever let you orgasm. Build that anticipation…. Forever
I do get tired jumping through so many hoops...
Yeah, a lot of people complaining about Slaanesh units being paper and unable to resist a counterattack before their swing really aren't considering Thieves of Pain. The ability to have a cheap, throwaway unit that can fight and then absorb the counterattack on someone else is extremely good even before we factor in the full rerolls. The one "shame" (so to speak, it's reasonable) is that the KoS can't benefit from it, though the Exalted Chariot can.
I really feel sorry for the people collecting Daemons Undivided. I doubt it will be a Deathwatch situation where the fan outcry makes GW make a revised index that still works in 10th. Chaos doesn't really get the same treatment the loyalists do.
Though it still feels like this blunts the blow at least a little bit.
Definitely some usability in these but the main detachment is better in almost every way.
I think the Nurgle detachment is the biggest loser. It simply doesn’t make sense fluff wise.
They needed some clouds of flies with some types of negatives to hit or a FNP or a type of Damage reduction. Anything that is actually based on Nurgle!
Huge missed opportunity, unfortunately.
Will still try to make some cool lists with the other detachments though.
You truly don't understand the power in the Slaanesh one. It's the second best of all the Xmas detatchments and rivals the power of the necron one.
The main detachment is pretty reliant on deep strike shenanigans and only has 2 usable stratagems now… with the right army list these ones definitely can compete with it, swapping out secondary shenanigans for area denial and actual damage boosts (except for poor nurgle, I dunno why GW keep trying to make battleshock detachments work they are always the weakest).
EDIT: I wouldn’t say the nurgle one isn’t fluffy, despair is apart of nurgle’s domain and representing disease as battleshock isn’t a hard sell… the only issue is that battleshock sucks as a mechanic
@@jacket2848 no, I completely understand it and the power. Mixing KOS and fiends, demonettes and such can be very powerful mixing who attacks first and getting the re rolls. Definitely strong.
I’m just thinking of the overall strength of the index detachment. It has a good mix of ways to get to combat, extra ap, better saves, pick up and down and ways to get the army where it has to, when it has to and be able to survive walls of shooting.
New detachments can put out damage, I just feel they’re not as flexible .
@@scotiansaint5679 That's kind of the point of these detachments, no? The index is flexible and allows for adjustments, however it lacks a kind of staying power or way to direct the flow of battle. If anybody denies your deep strikes or ability to control objectives, you can't control the battle. In a specialized detachment now you have a prerogative or a goal that has a direct focus. Khorne getting sticky on a kill, deadly demise on 2+, extra charge distance all of which are good for pushing up the board and snowballing. That detachment plays very much like a steamroller spreading across the board like a tide and hammering your opponent into their deployment zone. Tzeentch is focused on resource management for buffing your strats and ability output, with the catch of your enemy having to also use this, which makes you stronger. And if the enemy does not bite, you get even more powerful with an enhancement. Slaanesh, as stated, can do crazy high mortal wound output which is nice for punching above your weight class. Nurgle however seems to be a pseudo-shadow-of-chaos with focus on battleshock, which is not optimal but has a chance to shut down your opponent from using key strats like Reinforcements, Command Reroll, AoC, etc. Battleshock can also potentially steal an objective away on a full health unit (much like a weaker version of Shadow in the Warp for Tyranids). Generalist and flexible detachments are good don't get me wrong, but most of the time they do struggle decently in achieving staying power or pressure. The current index lacks a core rule that isn't reliant on deep strikes, if your opponent knows what they are doing, they will screen you out as best they can to deny your bonuses. I'm sorry for the rant, I have a friend who plays Chaos Daemons and they crafted hundreds of strategies but they also fight lots of horde armies in our current crusade and their Warp Rift maneuvers have been getting denied hard by chaff screens (Orks, BT, T'au, Militarum, Sisters, Necrons, and CSM were what the rest of us play).
Great to see the daemons on the path of mirroring AOS. Get our daemons aligned with specific legions and have rules that properly reflect them without being a compromised mess like the 9th edition codex.
Then put Belakor and Daemon Prince in a Chaos Undivided codex with one or two undivided detachments that buff Daemonica allies.
Not so fun when you go from having a diverse army to having scrap for 4 armies - armies you would already have if you so desired.
Do the same for Aeldar. For Space Marines. Now you ONLY use Assaulty units marines. ONLY Shooty. ONLY Durable. And you cannot mix and match them. Not very fun for the marine players, is it? And this is not very fun for Daemons at all. Especially not when you can just have detachments that encourage either single god Daemons, or even mixed lists, and still keeping daemons as a coherent army.
@KoltoMephet I have a full demons army mate - have for the past 3 editions - and im excited for the change. This is why ally rules are a thing, to mix and match while still having a clearly identifiable theme to the army: best of both worlds.
@@DPD1 ? That same argument goes both ways, just ally daemons into you X legion lmao. But if Undivided/mixed daemons gets squatted or relegated to Power Armor sidekicks, you will have FEWER options for play, not more.
And that is not touching upon people who will go from having a diverse, versatile army with the current ability to mix and match in codex, to having the scraps of several armies they might have no interest in playing whatsoever.
It's not happening. It's not going to be good for Daemon players. It's going to hurt GW sales.
You are lying to yourself if you want Daemons as a standalone alone army done away with.
GW will win with both Chaos sides if the Daemon codex has flexible allies rules. Too restrictive now.
Good times
Why would they get rid of such a popular army?
haha I love that Tzeentch stuff but doesn't sound that great if you actually want to win. lots of rerolls but instead of a normal cost your opponent gets the rerolls you've used
Watch Art of Wars review. The rule is actually quite strong. You are going to use it mainly for buffing your stratagems which are extremely powerful.
If your opponent hoards the tokens thinking he'll deny you your buffs you get 2 in command phase. If he uses 1 on a reroll you have 3, he only has 2.
As long as you aren't spamming them you will always have token advantage. If he spends all of them you now have 5, he has 0.
Spending the tokens on stratagems DOES NOT give any to your opponent. So, spend 4, reroll with one, gives your opponent a token and then next command phase you are at 3 tokens. Rinse, repeat
@@fateweaver9844 No, spending on stratagems absolutely still gives your opponent the token. The rule says "Flux tokens can also be spent to enhance the effect of some stratagems. Each time you spend a flux token reduce the number of tokens you have by one, and your opponent gains one flux token."
Everything with the nurgle keyword apperently has to be stupdly weak on release, a bit of a trend the last couple years
Praise the algorithm gods!
Papa Nurgle!!!
I prefer these to the 9th ed codex but still doesn't compete with daemonic incursion
As a Slaanesh fan, I was not impressed. The only time to use this would be against things like vehicles that don't fight well, or against things you know you are going to stomp; like mop up duty for a Keeper. Losing the ability to attack first does not seem helpful with models that are not tough or durable. Sure rerolls are cool, but not helpful when ⅔ of your models got killed before they could fight. 🤷🏻♂️
You're right, they are absolut Glas canons and losing Fight First is the Sure death for demonetts... Against some tanks it can be good with syllesske...
And in the old detachment the enhancements are much stronger
Yeah. If only you had been given an option to shunt away all damage you're getting. Like, to something with a 4+++ against mortal wounds. Can you imagine that being possible? But sadly it is not possible, and thus the ability to get _full rerolls_ on whichever unit you want is utter trash. Pity. 😮💨
You can really tell in the comments chaos legion player.
Demons are a hodgepodge army. It makes more sense to update their range peace meal via the dedicated God ranges. If 40k is going to integrate demons and mortals like AoS, that means their "Year of Chaos" can piggy back releases between 8 books over 2 games for 12 months. The 4 detachments could simply be a heads up that the Demon book isn't coming anytime soon, but could come after all the 20 year old kits have been refreshed in like 2026. I don't see why integrating demons and mortals has to assume the dissolution of Chaos Demons as a codex. I could easily be huffing Copium, but I think mixed demons are fun, and it'd be a shame to "legends" the concept.
These detachments aren't going to become legends when the God Legion codexes come out.
Kinda mid detachment rules for Slagussy, but the Strats and Enhancements are kinda nuts.
Tried slaanesh today its absolutely awesome, very strong. Khorne looks insane and although im not into the other 2 they definitely can be strong
the tzeentch one is absolutely garbage, giving your opponent free Command points and also giving them a chance to hit you for free, theres no upside to any of these abilities, meanwhile khorne and slaanesh is just pure killing power.
Id honesty play all but the nurgle detachment. It doesn't suit how i play at all
Too late for me been into daemons since the storm of chaos.
RAW it seems like the Slaanesh detachment rule totally invalidates the Tranceweaver, and needs to be errata'ed.
The tranceweaver’s ability only works against battleshocked units… it was already invalidated by itself XD.
But it does mean that if you are charging a battledhocked unit you don’t need to risk loosing fight first… so the tranceweaver still has a niche here as a safety net (plus she gives fight first which lets face it is the reason you bring her)
@Swampert919 I was specifically talking about the fights first part. The rules says "loses fights first" instead of something like "does not gain fights first after successfully completing a charge."
@@allenfinkenaur5001 the point of giving a unit the fight first ability in their datasheet is to deter opponents from charging them, not to help them in the charge. So why would it invalidate the tranceweaver to loose her built in fight first when doing the gambit when the entire reason you want fights first is to counter enemy charges…
And it def won’t get errata’d, GW 100% worded it like that specifically so units that already have fights first can’t abuse it to get the buff for free.
@@Swampert919 all I meant was there doesn't seem any reason to take her over other options for demonettes since you don't get the gambit rerolls and fights first and her battle shock rule overlaps the detachment one.
@@allenfinkenaur5001 the reason you take her over any other option is the same as always, giving fights first to daemonettes helps protect them from melee threats and when you’re as squishy as daemonettes you need all the protection you can get protection (plus let’s face it, the other options for leading daemonettes are one that only returns D3 models each round which is useless on them, a 4+ FNP vs psychic and mortals which is niche at best, or a named character that’s twice the cost… tranceweaver is still one of the best options for supporting daemonettes and the only viable one that can take enhancements…).
While we're on thd topic of factions not needing a codex to themselves, lets just roll all the space marines into the core coxex from now on. Clearly there isnt a need to separate them into a separate faction if the darmons roster doesnt need to. We already folded harlequins into the eldar, and now daemons too. No reason not to.
What a shiet idea
@@prestonjohnson1537 it’s not that daemons don’t need a codex, it’s that trying to squeeze 4 completely different armies into the same codex doesn’t exactly work and has caused quite a few issues over the years… splitting them out actually benefits the mono god armies by letting them properly lean into their own identities.
Not saying that there isn’t an argument that space marines don’t need so many codexes, but if GW split daemons it’s to try and help them not to spite them.
@@Swampert919 Except it's not splitting them. It's getting rid of them and making them units in other factions. I have absolutely no faith that they'll do them any good like that just like the kroot in tau don't have much if you wanted to play only them. They'll just be as useless as any faction folded into another.
Even in AOS, which people use as justification why they should, the daemons in those armies are just terrible. You only ever take them when the points are made cheap enough to outweigh the awful rules they have.
@@lego1999100 Got anything more to say, or do you just like your super speshul marines?
@ you say the only reason you take them in AoS is when they are cheap enough but that’s literally all chaos daemons are currently, the internal balance of daemons is always bad because there’s no reason to not take the few good units and ignore all the ones with awful rules… which is most of them. the alternative is still better
And it is splitting them, you’d still be able to play full daemon armies if you want and even if they are unviable competitively that’s literally no different to mono god armies now… it’s still better for say khorne daemons to be unviable while in an army that gives them access to world eater’s blessings of khorne than them being unviable in an army that’s catering to tzeentch, nurgle, and slaanesh instead.
If we get to keep all5 detatchments then im happy. However I scry no demons in 11th
I disagree about the nurgle detachment it so so flavourful, its a great debuff detachment that wittles down your enemy as they cant kill your units. You win by having beefy things sit on objectives its perfect for nurgle and very flavourful
Should the Flux rule be that each time your opponent uses one Flux dice, you gain TWO? That way ypur opponent is tempted to use this arcane power that's fallen to them, but to do so only makes Tzeench STRONGER...
Why does gw seem to hate nurgle
What's a Detacment?
A detachment is like bonus rules for your armies that give you strategems, rules and enhancements for units.
Id be fine with them breaking up the Chaos Demons into 4 mini codex's. Keep the $60 price tag on it, BUUUUUT when you buy it you get all 4. Since they are going to quite effing small.
It sucks for chaos demon players that it might get divided but it doesn’t make much sense as a faction imo.
Tbf so long as we can still run undivided daemons some how (like an index or a detachment for it in codex CSM) and aren’t forced to take mortals it honestly won’t suck all that much… mono gods is at worst the same and at best far more functional and the undivided players still have an option.
It makes perfect sense for an army though. Yeah, different daemons "working together", or being present together and with a common enemy, is not unheard of. Is it standard or common? No, but neither is, say, blood angels where every special character is present or whatever. Our armies don't have to be typical or everyday. Tyranids aren't forced to bring at 100 gaunts along either now, are they? How come X primarch is present so often, or in such a small engagement? You see my point surely.
Whats more, you could just have a detachment for each god that encourages or requires mono god building. Without fing over people who owns the army. Hell, you could then even also have indexes that mixes mortals and daemons. And Undivided one too ("Word Bearers").
But this is absolutely no win for someone who has a daemon army with more than one god in it. And even if you have one that is focused entirely around a single Deity, what makes you think it will anywhere close to fun/playable/competitive if you do not go out and buy marines? GW is horrible with often leaving half a range in the dumpster while the rest is all the good stuff. My Lord Discordant is collecting dust, and MAYBE, MAYBE it might be playable in 11th lmao.
It makes perfect sense. There is the great rift splitting the galaxy in two. One can imagine some daemon invasion occurring from time to time
Giving full re-rolls to hit and wound was too powerful on Oath of Moment, though. Don't you worry your little heads. We'll fix it by giving it to everyone else.
If you let me hit you first, then maybe I would let you 😂
Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but isn't False Majesty just an objectively better Slaughterthirst? 5 points less and it doesn't require a charge. I don't play the Sex Demons so I have no idea what their army plays like.
@@BlackKaiserDrake khorne units hit much harder than slaanesh ones having higher strength, ap, and damage… so while yes slaughterthirst is weaker it’s buffing much scarier melee.
Plus slaanesh units are pretty squishy, you’re gonna have an easier time keeping a khorne character alive and near the enemies than a slaanesh one… so makes sense for slaanesh enhancements to be a bit stronger with the assumption they won’t stay around as long.
@@Swampert919 Fair enough.
🔥🤘❤️👍