Another inconsistency is a Disney SW comic showed the Imperials burning lightsabers outside the ruined Jedi Temple, the last one being Yoda’s lightsaber which caused a huge explosion; however we see it completely undamaged when Luke presents it to Grogu in the Book of Boba Fett
Went to a book store the other day and saw how many old books have the legends rebrand, some have been republished multiple times now. So at this point, if Disney can republish these books and sell them, they are still canon. And you know what? Since they came first I can elevate their continuity to be higher than the nu-star wars content.
That doesn’t mean they have the rights to reuse the ideas the rights nightmare tangle withe the original authors like how with the original movie George retained sequal rights to make darivitive products from them
I wrote a 15 page essay titled The Inconsistencies of the Star Wars Canon Timeline for one of my classes. It’s crazy, especially when looking at the initial announcement. The reason the EU was made “Legends” was because of inconsistencies between stories, and they claimed the new canon timeline would have no such inconsistencies… and yet here we are.
Thank you for your comment! Actually the reason they discount continued the expanded universe was because they wanted to do whatever they want and they wanted to surprise the audience. Which I think could be done while keeping elements of the expanded universe. They did say in the article that discontinued the expanded universe that they kept fighting to make expanded universe consistent with the films and if you look into a lot of the recon that they worked into it it is very impressive
@ that’s a good question thank you for your comment! In my video I don’t just have 4 contradictions. I just put them in four points to kind of group them together. To make for a simpler video. I will post some videos in the future, going over different continuity errors in Star Wars and how the EU fixed it versus how the Disney Canon doesn’t care about it. I also wanted to give a brief history and context to the quote from Sam and how Dave changed the announced one canon universe to just a jumbled up mess of tales and legends
@@Aewon84 it’s mostly details from novels contradicting other novels and some television. I don’t want to go through everything but you might make me actually start a list
I remember when Hidalgo finally said their (Story Group's) job wasn't to guard and coordinate the continuity and thinking what the hell is it then, wasn't that the promise, when EU was declassified for one continuity of equal canonicity?
I mean, apparently the Story Group did stop JJ from blowing up Coruscant, instead making the system destroyed in TFA the Hosnian system, which gives us our system of rotating capitals for the New Republic, so there's that. There's like, one other thing I can't remember, but was a thing they did.
They’ve been releasing unabridged audio versions of the X-Wing books on audible and listening to those has been bringing me back to the early exciting days of the Star Wars EU.
Thank you for your comment! Yes I love those books and am so glad we have the full book now. Del Rey and all the publishers know what we want but Disney needs to give the green light for more new stories!
No, this just Filoni treating the current canon like he originally treated the EU, which was supposed to be canon back then, this is just inconsistencies in the canon.
Thank you for your comment. I do think that he doesn’t respect anything that is canon. But I do think this is the new rule moving forward because he is the chef creative officer
@@fineadditions People say that The Clone Wars is Lucas's project, but I disagree. I think George just gave Filoni his blessing and freedom to play around with Star Wars setting, threw a few ideas at him and then his involvement was quickly diminishing. Filoni in his turn abused that trust by essentially making The Clone Wars not about adding to George's story and expanding it, but by finding ways to retcon not only the EU (if he even acknowledged EU even a single time) , but even the movies to fit in his own characters and ideas. That it the problem to this day: he basically ignores anything that isn't TV series produced by him.
@ I see what you mean I think Lucas was involved but there were to many people that were scared to say there would be problems also Dave used Lucas as an excuse whenever people would criticize the concepts in his show
Treating TCW as in universe propaganda, or as secondary canon instead of T-canon for legends are honestly the best ways to keep it if you want material Filoni didn't have a hand in creating to also be canon.
@@1000g2g3g4g800999 Or you can do what comicbook authors did for years, take a multiverse approach. The original 6 movies exclusively is Universe 1, the original 6 + parts of EU is Universe 2, 3, 4 or 5 (depends on what exactly do you want to include), and TCW universe will include all Filoni TV shows and a hypothetical remakes of the original trilogy by FIloni.
I consider all Star Wars stories to be the retelling of events told by the Whills. I imagine the Whills arguing about inconsistencies. “That’s not how I heard it” as it were.
Star Wars isn’t like a typical single author, book to movie adaptation. Rather Star Wass has always been collaborative. George has been selling his right to his own world for a long time, since Splinter of the Minds Eye. While I love George, appreciate his world, and effort for consistency, he can no longer be the sole voice of what is or isn’t canon. He literally sold Star Wars. It is indeed up to the fans now to sort it out. I just hope we get a proper KOTOR 3 out of this with Chris Avellone 😄
Thank you for your comment. Yes for the most part. If anything they are just putting the Star Wars canon in the same level of the George Lucas - Lucas film Star Wars , In the we dont care about it just give us money level
The „more than one universe“ idea would have worked a lot better if it was so from day one like with transformers where from day one you had different continuities telling different stories that weren’t set in the same exact universe, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE SAME FOR STAR WARS AND YOU CANT CHANGE TUNE AFTER 35 YEARS OF STORYTELLING
Like with the Abrams Trek movies, where they had the courtesy to split a new timeline from the get go... Now there has been a World Between Worlds for years but hasn't used it... argued several timelines would be confusing for people, so they can't continue old EU storylines, yet continue packing bookstores with "Legends" books and special essentials editions and game rereleases and ports etc. I just hate that dishonesty.
@mechadeka The distinction between real Star Wars and derivative works (I'd say fan content but most of the disney creators are not fans) isn't what you do and don't like, it's what George Lucas made himself or sanctioned the creation of and what he did not. You're as divorced from reality as disney fans who think those movies are as legitimate as George's.
I would love to get adaptations of the greatest Legends novels, like Heir to the Empire and X-Wing. Similar to how Rogue One was labeled "A Star Wars Story" to indicate it was a spin-off, they should label these adaptations "A Star Wars Legend"
If you cared about Canon, you checked out in 2014, which is why few people were nitpicking the new novels. Filoni has never cared about continuity. He's always been a wrecking ball destroyed the continuity that others at Lucasfilm had worked hard to piece together. It was obvious from the sequel trilogy they were incapable of consistency. Abrams and Johnson weren't worried about continuity even with G-canon or each other. The promise of a more consistent continuity was a nice idea, but Disney showed immediately they were not willing or capable of managing it.
Disney canon is trash... I just love how they claimed that there was "no source material" but then they turn around and completely rip off expanded universe stories... These people can't even keep their own continuity in order😂🤦🏻
Thank you for your comment! Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t know what she has. George Lucas told Disney that at the time Star Wars was worth more than marvel which I would agree with
Star Wars is a disaster. The fact that all of this has to be combed through, and explained is just proof of that. Too many cooks in the kitchen at this point.
@@marvolomethodJRR Tolkien died and rings of power isn’t canon. The Star Wars is like lord of the rings The four books are like the Star Wars 1-6 The Christoper Tolkien books are like the EU Disney Star Wars is rings of power for the most part
When they announced that the old EU would be deemed non-canon in favor of a unified timeline across all media, I was fine with it as there were various inconsistencies in the old EU. A decade later and the new canon is falling into the same trap of new projects overruling old ones to the point where I wish they had just kept the old EU intact or better yet, make use of the "Legends" branding by going the multiverse route that superhero franchises do. Properly label each project as part of a specific timeline and you can have different writers play in different sandboxes. Then Dave Filoni's comment about these being tall-tales makes perfect sense as we'd have different stories on how the Empire returned, how the Death Star Plans were acquired, etc. Personally I don't force myself to stay up to date with everything, never have so I treat Star Wars the same as I always have: Form a headcanon based on the projects I like, ignore/try to justify any inconsistencies formed by said projects.
Thank you for your comment. I think you make a good point except I will have to disagree with you on the inconsistencies and the expanded universe. To my knowledge, all of them have been recon and resolved to make it more cohesive.
The Thing is the Expanded universe wasnt nearly AS inconsistent AS people Claim IT was ,they actually Put a good amount of effort into making IT consistent,rewrote earlier books to make it fit better. A Lot of the EU haters Bring Up random books that were clearly never Cannon to BE begin with and Cherrypick examples, the Star wars Universe was pretty consistent before filonis TCW Show compared to Other Franchises but TCW Bulldozered all over the Cannon and i think George Lucas didnt Care at that Point about Star wars anymore that much given how Just a few years later when TCW started IT was Sold to the devil aka Disney.
Filoniverse and disney has nothing to do with the Expanded Universe canon and are functionally separate. Any forced retcon injections can be easily disregarded since it is usually replacing answers and info that already exists
Thank you for your comment! The only thing Filoni that is legends is TCW because of the legends TCW tie in’s this can work because Dave says it is like a tall tale and a legends gaming book hints it is propaganda
It is worth noting that "T cannon" was created for Filoni. He refused to be confined to a lower level of canon and have to work with other writers/creators. He would then use this new "power" to end projects that didn't adhere to his canon. So for me and many others (while having cool moments or story arc) the clone wars is was never canon.
More like it was made for George Lucas. He didn’t mind adding to the lore but didn’t want to be restricted when he wants to do something. Almost all of the the retcons of the EU in the show were confirmed to be decisions by George himself after all. I think Dave just carried on his philosophy into Disney's era because that's just how George did things.
I love Sam and Dave, but I hard disagree with them about it being good when things don’t line up. I love me some good continuity, and it just rubs me the wrong way when new materials contradicts established material.
Thank you for your comment! I would agree with you but there are to many stories that legends tie in to TCW that it can’t be taken out but if we treat it like how Dave and Sam see it (a tall tale) it can fit into legends where some is true and some is not. This is hinted at in some legends gaming books that TCW could be propaganda
If we’re talking about tcw tie-in material I can understand but as for the clone wars multimedia project that ran from 2002 to 2006 before tcw is bulldosed over by it in many areas and even directly contradicts both attack of the clones and revenge of the sith itself which is g cannon
Those EU Star Wars guidebooks before being branded as Legends were more meant to be accurate into canon, but the undoing of what is canon or not has been happening so many times, is the question we all must ask ourselves, why should the writers have even bothered in going into that detail, if it's just a legend. Out of all the fictional franchises, this has got to be the most nihilistic handling of continuity meaning I have ever seen, because events have no meaning from TCW and onwards.
Thank you for your comment! I’m on the same page! If it was all tales and legends why did Lucas care. I think Dave and Lucasfilm are just cherry picking views that Lucas had that fit there views. Because in the 90s Lucas liked that story tellers wanted to talk Star Wars stories and he gave guidance. Then he flip flopped till he liked it again and even saying that Vader having grandKIDS was part of the saga
@fineadditions The thing is Dave wanted to make a different continuity was not the problem, is the fact that he had it involved with the EU that was his detriment stain on the fanbase, had he just said that TCW was separate from the EU, he could have avoid a lot of heat, but for some reason he didn't want it to be a separate continuity and then DID.
I can count the amount of times they've contradicted canon on one hand. Star Wars is more consistent with its lore than literally every other major franchise.
@@Aewon84 also there are more contradictions that fit in one hand the there’s all the continuity errors in the Ashoka novel, Cobb Vance, Darth Vader in the obi wan show, Rex saying in rebels he didn’t betray the Jedi when in fact he did. Just to name a few more
Yeah you could always just only go by legends. That’s the one you like more, nothing wrong with that. You just can’t say it’s canon, they’re two different continuities.
@@chewy99. Yes you can because the copyright holder doesn't decide canon, YOU DO because you are the one who ultimatly decides what stories matter to you and what stories don't. Most legit Star Wars fans reject Disney and embrace the EU so that settles it.
I remember the year Disney brought star wars .i got into the legends books and i fell in love with stars wars again in a time when i needed an outlet Hollywood/normies cant love star wars like genuine fans so we need to take it back and write our own stories
Honestly, there are some good things in Disney Canon just like they’re good things and legends if they do decanonized everything they built in the new canon I would be really mad so I hope they don’t do that it was enough, losing everything from the old canon. It seems meaningless just to make new stories just for them to be erased. i’m a fan of both. I kind of wish they still made stories for legends and canon. There’s no reason why we can’t have both Marvel has multiple universes. Why can’t Star Wars?
Agreed. I'll agree with anyone that Disney "ruined star wars" but I can't lie and say I hate all of Disney canon. There's a decent chunk of good stuff. They just slowly keep ruining stuff. But if I ignore the sequel era and half the shows it's not too bad 😂
Wow how lazy is Filoni? Using the "tall tales" reasoning is just a way of not having to concern yourself with having to keep up with what other writers have done.
I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I much prefer absolute consistency. On the other, I'm not overly bothered so long as conflicting stories don't actually change the story on some fundamental level to the extent that they couldn't just be different interpretations of the same events. The Kanan stuff is a perfect example of this. The two versions have many differences, but at the end of the day, they're still portraying the same core events. Order 66 happens and the troopers kill Kanan's master while she fights them off so he can escape.
I hate if they’re actually doing that. So far it isn’t really bad, there’s only a few things that are irreconcilably different like a good amount of things from the Ahsoka novel and the order 66 part of the Kanan comics, as well as maybe what happened to Yoda’s lightsaber since it was seemingly destroyed in a furnace in the Vader comics but somehow Luke has it in the book of boba Fett.
Kanan’s first story is entirely gone because Captain Styles no longer exists or at least doesn’t have that same emotional connection (or need) to kill Kanan. Plus Ventress’ existence in the Bad Batch removes Dark Disciple. Other than that everything is consistent. (The Acolyte’s idea are another one that sort of undermines but does not directly contradict the movies.)
@@lord_egg They said Asajj’s survival would be explained. I guess if there’s gonna be someone to die and come back a nightsister is a good candidate since they have weird magick ceremonies and zombies.
@@chewy99. True, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS a retcon. Maul's revival was also a retcon. Explainable and the first of it's kind (which is why lots of people hate Palps return but defend Maul's) but still a retcon.
the interesting thing about the single universe strategy would be that you could plan out and coordinate major long term plans like prophecies and other events. if everything is separate then we perhaps wont get that epic grand scale of old Star Wars.
Thanks for the comment! I do miss the planned out stories we got from the expanded universe but before Disney they gave a group of people some power over the story to fix it if to many cooks make a mess now they just don’t care and they don’t want to tie it all together like the EU
Disney in 2012: We built a new story line where they would all be on the same canon level, so we erased the expanded universe Disney now: F*ck it all, tell them that all the stories are like stories with different visions of stories or some other shit, but SELL THE STORIES TO THEM AND BRING ME A LOT OF MONEY, WE NEED MONEY AND LGBT PROPAGANDA TO FINANCE US!
Thank you for your comment! Dave Filoni is the chief creator at LF so yeah I don’t know why people think he can save Star Wars the mandaloren started going done hill when they introduced his characters
IMO there should be 2 separate SW canons: Legends - everything done before Disney bought SW minus things that continued it's production in Disney era: Dawn of the Jedi comics, KOTOR game and comics, books about Darth Bane, Plagueis, 6 movies, Clone Wars mini-series, many games, Zahn's trilogy, Yuuzhan Vong etc. Disney - everything made during Disney and what was continued under Disney's rule: The Old Republic MMO (whole), High Republic, 6 original movies (duh!), Disney movies and shows, Dave Filoni's Clone Wars (whole), Jedi Survivor and Fallen Oder etc. This would tidy up things. Made it easier to explain inconsistencies to newbies. And it doesn't really divide all works into good canon/lesser canon, as both canons would have true pearls and really bad stuff. But we as a community has to create a canon version of stories, that is easy enough to follow. So that we wouldn't have to argue on case-per-case basis. So that we could welcome new fans without telling them the show they liked is not really canon. And so that we could play RPG together.
It’s less a question of “what is canon” and more “what group do you fit into.” Like how scripture in religion is debated and different groups center around different texts, so is Star Wars Canon no longer effectively determined by a top down dictation. Rather different compilations and groups can and have emerged regarding canon. OT purists 6 film purists. Old expanded universe fans pre TCW. Old eu fans with TCW. Disney canon fans Show canon fans A mix of Disney and EU, favoring Disney. A mix of both, favoring the old EU. Picking and choosing based on one’s own consumption and determination of continuity. Star Wars is wonderful, but any continuity course correction the old EU was making was dashed by TCW. Then Disney finished the Job. Now, Filoni and others are decimating the new canon as well. We can say that it’s based on one’s proximity to, or the word of George Lucas that determines canon… but that cannot be the case. Unlike novels -> films like LOTR which all emerge from one mind, Star Wars has always been collaborative. George worked on films as a team, and his team helped make them great. He permitted the old EU. He sold Star Wars. In short, George has never been the sole voice, and so cannot be the final voice. The tiers of canon was an effort to ‘set things right’ with the release of TCW. This may have worked a bit had it been held to, but in practice it was just permission for certain works to overtake others for better or worse. This is just my opinion, but with so many options and stories, it is less about creating a single coherent world, and more about finding your community of likeminded enjoyers.
Thank you for your comment. I do think that Star Wars moving forward is a group of inconsistent tall tales and legends actually help retroactively feeding the clone wars show into the expanded universe if we simply view it as tall tales
I catagorise Star Wars under two banners; Disney Canon and the Star Wars Expanded Universe. I refuse to use the Disney Legends catagorisation. It devalues the body of work that is the Expanded Universe. Within those two realms, I enjoy what I want to enjoy. And I encourage others to come to the same conclusion. I enjoy some of the Expanded Universe, whilst I loathe some of the Expanded Universe. I enjoy some of Disney Star Wars, whilst I loathe some of Disney Star Wars. The best way to enjoy Star Wars is to enjoy it your way!
@@Aewon84 Eh I’d have to disagree with that, but canon certainly does have a heap of good books. Probably more good than bad in comparison because Legends has so many more books and such a big variety of
The Aftermath trilogy from Wendig was by far my favourite piece of canon media since the switch, he does a lot to set up the return of Palpatine, as well as plenty of foreshadowing of this "extragalactic threat" that Palpatine created the Empire to counter - it felt like a touch of the classic EU novels we all loved. Disney writing that off would be heart breaking.
Thank you for your comment! I enjoyed the aftermath trilogy before I started to really dive into the expanded universe, and I’ve grown to dislike it. I do think that some parts of it would have been written different if they had known that Palpatine would return. I think if Palpatine returning was part of the plan, it would’ve happened at the same way that it happened in dark Empire
@@RoboticPope Chuck definitely isn't a good person, he's a far Left buffoon. But that's the reason he was fired, it had nothing to do with his writing.
@@RoboticPope from what I understand, Chuck Wendig is like a radical communist. The kind of dude to not return to work after a return to work order. Definitely not my favorite guy. But he was fired for those controversial stances, not for his writing being bad. You can separate the art and the artist very easily here.
For me, all disney content is legends excepting the two and a half things they made right, while the rest before Disney is canon. I'll never gonna change my mind, no matter how much disney tells me to do so, i just won't.
Ultimately for me the purest canon is Episode I-VI and The Clone Wars Season 1-6. Those were Lucas‘ projects. I love a lot of other stories, both canon and legends, and disagree with some, both canon and legends. But they are all derivatives.
I think TCWs7 deserves to be in there too because they were all stories that they already had in the works coming down the pipeline, Siege of Mandalore in particular.
I like the idea of the campfire tales, BUT in my eyes it has to be clear that this is a thing and that we as watchers/readers/gamers have a chance to know whenever something is the real deal, if you know what I mean. Also stuff has to be a believable version of what really happened. I had two moments in the same show when something shown in the later season doesn't match up with what was told in the first. But the first instance were objective facts not matching and the second, when i thought a moment about it, was a case of an unreliable narrator.
Despite the hate it got, I actually respect the fact that The Last Jedi had the guts to kill off Luke Skywalker. One movie did what decades of expanded universe stories could not. The same can be said for Han and Leia as well. Obviously they had died since there are stories set a hundred years after the OT. But it would be nice to conclude the stories of the OT heroes in the expanded universe once and for all. When it comes to “canon” I use 3 timelines: 1. Disney Canon: this includes the PT, OT, ST, TCW and everything released after Disney acquired the rights to Lucasfilm 2. Legends Timeline: this is the PT, OT, TCW tie-in material* and everything published/released prior to the Disney acquisition 3: Old EU Timeline: these are the stories prior to the prequels and were retconned by George Lucas when he released the PT
Thank you for your comment The Eu wanted to kill Luke in new Jedi Order but George said no because he wanted to use him in a movie that’s why chewy died
for me Canon is the EU under Lucas, Episode 1-6, Clone wars, Rogue one, the OB1 Tv show = basically everything except sequels if a book is not matching up with a TV show/movie the movie/show wins Luke weds Jade, they had a kid, Liea and Solo had 3 kids, no Rey Palpatine, no Fin, or Poe
By current canon Poe was born on Yavin 4 when the rebels were based there. He would still exist, but be different. My head canon has him train under Wedge.
If this interpretation is to be correct, this would mean that Star Wars canon as a concept would no longer exist. Honestly I hope this is the case because ultimately the Star Wars community for too long has been divided by vitriol and anger. I really like this video because it doesn't leave me frustrated. Perhaps the Sith have been dominating Star Wars discourse, perhaps the words of Yoda be taken into consideration. To let go... Of everything we fear to lose. For our story is one with the force, and all Star Wars media can be considered like how many times we have retold the tales of Robin Hood, Pinocchio, or MacBeth. Star Wars is what George Lucas wanted... Star Wars is truely our modern myths. And the search for purity of our myths is the path of the Dark side. The universe is as mysterious as it is protrayed to be. Canon purity is sith logic. This interpretation of my own now.
Thank you for your comment! I will have to disagree with you George Lucas did want to make a modern myth. However he did motivate the people working on the projects to say consistent with one another. Like for instance they wanted to kill Luke in the book series new Jedi order but George said no because he wanted to use him in his sequels he would give authors sourcebook to stay consistent because he liked the way the universe worked
@ a Sith wants disorder and conflict. A Jedi wants peace and balance. I never thought of putting a faction to it. But imagine watching the original Star Wars learning about the force how it is connected by all living things. we meet Luke who is a boy. Aunt and Uncle were killed by the Empire. But then in Empire strikes back the force comes from a rock, Luke Skywalker as a girl and her aunt Uncle Warren burn alive but frozen to death and he never saw the body’s . And instead of explaining this, they just gaslight you into thinking that it’s good that it’s not consistent. Star Wars would not have continued being great if it didn’t build off the building box of the previous story
I never hate the new canon because it is actually gave us new stories and some new facctions and new characters like the crimson dawn and let's not forget that thanks to disney we have bad batch and one of the best protagonist of all time The mandalorian.
Thank you for your comment. I’m so glad that you enjoyed the Disney Canon. I feel the same way about the expended universe and how they brought in more factions, new characters and even created and or expanded the things that Disney likes to take credit for.
Bad Batch is lame version of Delta and Omega squads from K. Treviss books, and Din Djarin ruined in season 3. That's how Disney treats they own concepts. EU has more than 30 years to have some mess in it, yet new (10 years +-) canon just in the same state with people like Filoni, who just shits on the work of other authors. Only think I can say thanks is Tony Gilroy and Gareth Edwards for R1 and Andor
Thank you for your comment! On the canon level list LEGO Star Wars 1-3 would be under non canon or S Canon and I think the Skywalker saga and force awakens are considered in continuity with the LEGO Star Wars TV shows at least the cut scene parts
I don't want the deaths of Han, Luke, and Leia, but it would be nice to have some stories to sort of wrap up and finish connecting the Legends timeline to a more satisfying conclusion. We know they will die eventually, but I don't need them going out in some over done blaze of glory. Part of the problem with EU is it had gone too bleak and too much was crumbling. I want the OTs story to end with a period of peace, and then let Legacy comics continue to the eventual restoration of the galactic republic because triumvirates are a stupid form of government... maybe necessary for a transitional point in the comics, but for pity's sake let the empire finally die.
I’m conflicted about this. Part of me is upset, part of me isn’t. I love the Disney canon (not every single bit of it) and I like some of the legends stuff. Feels like a bit of a copout. I feel like Disney shouldn’t do this and just ride it out like Kobe and the Lakers. However on the other side of the coin I’m thinking Star Wars has always been a messy franchise with so many contradictions so why not? It is a multiverse afterall. The way I see it is that everything is canon and not canon at the same time. So if this is going to be a continuous thing over the years where they make a new canon and make the previous one legends I wouldn’t mind. I just love Star Wars flaws and all. Every Star Wars fan can like what they want even if it’s that really old Holiday Special. Sorry for this long comment but that’s how I feel.
Thanks for the comment! I’m glad you enjoy canon. From want I’ve seen the eu is not as messy as canon. But I do think the way you look at it is interesting!
@@Lugiamasterbrony When the parts of the whole work or fit together well, it is cohesive.Thanks to efforts of the Holocron contunity database and work of many others,decades of fiction created independently fit together just the way they should
Umm... Didn't the big 3 become one with the force at the very end of the old EU? It was a weird stand alone i ignored as Disney canon was due out to replace it, but i think they technically died there.
Anything done by Dismal Disney/Lucas Fluffs up after George Lucas sold the franchise does not count. All Dismal Disney Star Bores material is political propaganda, and will never be accepted by TRUE FANS, unlike the ACTIVIST based rubbish! All Star Wars stopped when George Lucas sold up! Thank you for your time.❤
I don’t view. This is a bad thing if there are two universes one with legends and one with Disney I’m fine with that because Disney can keep their shitty stories I don’t want anything to do with them, Star Wars legends will always be superior.
Please, please, the 'Sword of the Jedi' trilogy that was supposed to be next after 'Crucible' to be written by Christie Golden. I've got and read most of the post-Endor Bantam/Del Rey era and I just have to know what's next- all we have is the cover art. The fact she's still writing Star Wars Canon novels means she's still available to do it if the opportunity arose. In fact, a surprising number of old EU authors are still around, and some - including Timothy Zahn - have even written for Disney.
George's idea of canon is give or take what I also had in my head. Like yeah, the movies and the books from the movies are the real deal and then the rest depending on how closely George was involved in making them. The expanded universe has some crazy stories that I didn't really like. Also I can't get behind the fan service of bringing Maul back in CW. It never sat well with me and I know that I am a minority in that but it just doesn't make sense in many ways and messes up with the concept of death in the universe. Only thing that saved Maul in my head was Sam's performance which was phenomenal and I was looking forward to it. And I'll say it once more, bringing Maul back was what gave the SW 9:ROS writers the ability and the confidence to bring Palpatine back from the dead in the abomination of a movie that was Episode 9... We've seen him come back in some older books but never on a popular show or movie. It's like starting a chain reaction. One type of canon is not sustainable for the SW Universe. Mistakes will happen, bad stories will be told. Hell, even bad movies will be made (see sequel trilogy). They should bring back the G-Canon for George's stuff (as it's by far the most consistent due to the quantity of the material alone) and then tell stories based on the SW Universe regardless of whether they are consistent or not so anyone can pick whatever they like and just accept that there will never be consistency or one sided stories when you mass produce them without a solid plan and without a team that checks every little detail and has real passion for the source material. Some of the newer projects were colossal failures... I could write a better script with less plot holes than the Acolyte and that's something I firmly believe (although the bar is way too low). I can't consider that show canon... Or whatever Solo was. Was it a fun movie? Probably yeah. Was it a good Star Wars story? Hell no. I refuse to believe that that's how he got his name or the way he met Chewbacca among other stuff. The only SW movie I really enjoyed from Disney was Rogue One. Good script that fills a plot hole and introduces a nicely written protagonist that kicks ass in Jyn, a new but not so important power hungry villain in Krennic and Andor, a good deuteragonist that shows the duality of being a rebel and from whom we also got a great series.
Thank you for the Comment! I agree and disagree with you on the statement that there should just be the George Lucas Cannon his films. I wouldn’t say that they are very consistent since he does bring up certain continuity errors between trilogies that do get fed up with C canon. I do think many of people would argue that teach. CW should be a part of the George Lucas Cannon, but that creates even more continuity errors with the films.
Oddly, Maul coming back was supposedly Lucas's plan for the ST from the beginning, it is one of the few confirmed things from Lucas's notes for that trilogy.
I think you might be reading a little too much into it. I don't think it's a bad thing that writers aren't completely confining themselves to making sure everyone completely matches with no contradictions. That's just insane. And let's be real here, the old EU was just as bad, if not worse.
Thanks for the comment! I will have to disagree with you. It is pretty realistic to be able to have a cohesive story, especially if a lot of people are paid to have that job. That was the point of the 2014 story group. Also the writers and story group for the expanded universe continued to keep everything consistent. if there was a inconsistency which there were plenty, they would so it into the story and make it look good unlike the Disney canon.
@fineadditions You mean attempt to make the contradictions work. Like having the death star plans get stolen like ten different times, so they had to make some really stupid explanation about how they were all different pieces of the plans or something or other. Or how about Boba Fett having a doppelganger because they wrote him completely different before his backstory was revealed, so apparently it was actually a different bounty hunter cosplaying as Boba... for some reason. Or my favorite. The Clone Wars in the Thrawn books being not even close to what we eventually got in the prequels. I can't even remember if they tried to handwave that away. I'm kinda glad I don't. Oh yeah, didn't Shaak Ti also die like three separate times in Legends? Once at the Battle of Coruscant in the Clone Wars 2D cartoon, once at the Jedi temple during Order 66, and once by Starkiller on Felucia after she seemingly revived for a second time. Point is, I like Legends, but sitting here saying it was more cohesive than the Disney canon is just hilariously blinded by nostalgia for it.
@ I like your passion but all of the things you just said got fixed Boba Fett was undercover as Jaster for a mission who was named after his grandfather. The Nogri have a different calendar then the galactic calendar And she didn’t die in clone wars she died twice in revenge of the sith but those were deleted so not canon and TFU was her canon death. To my knowledge all the contradictions were fixed and the eu works together
a lot of the EU is utter garbage as well so honestly just come up with your own canons at this rate, love what you love, there will never be a good official canon again
Thank you for your comment! I do agree that there won’t be a good official canon anymore. I do think that they could continue the expanded universe and we could have a good alternative. I do also see a lot of people say that a lot of the EU is garbage. Would you care to elaborate? I’ve read a good chunk of the expanded universe. I would have to disagree the majority of people that make that comment have only heard the concepts out of context and haven’t even read the books and are just repeating what they hear people say. Because if it was that bad, we wouldn’t have had 37 years of it. I am working on a video about the things that people hate about the expanded universe, and I would love to hear your point of view.
@fineadditions one thing I hate is the novel "dawn of the jedi: into the void". Honestly the worst star wars book i have read. I was so excited and left so disappointed. "Knight errant" was also disappointing until the last 3rd of the book
@@tedpogue6531 I can see want you mean, Dawn of the Jedi definitely works better if you read the comics first I don’t know if you’re into that but as a standalone, it is pretty shocking. Also KE I would have to say the same thing to read the comics first and I think they take place chronologically before it so it’s kind of strange that both of those books weren’t just comic books.
@@fineadditions thats fair. I hear the comics themselves are pretty cool. I've been meaning to get around to them but so many damn novels lol. The only comics I've read are the legacy comics and dark empire. (Also, them saying "bitch" in the dawn of the jedi novel threw me off so hard.)
Thank you for your comment! But I’m gonna have to disagree with you. Could you give me a few examples of books and comics that you have read. I’ve read a good majority of legends. There were a few out-of-pocket things. Most of the times someone says that they’ve not read it and just heard someone else say it’s bad.
@@fineadditions I wanted to like legends so bad I hear the opposite actually I hear everyone praise it but I just can’t get into it I hate how messy it is and the timeline for legends is all over the place and I know Disney has shitty stuff and have already retconned some of their material but I just like how much tidy and linear the Disney timeline is and in my opinion some stuff they did better like I prefer Disney thrawn compared to legends thrawn. But some stuff in legends are good like the old republic is way better than Disneys stupid high republic. I don’t wanna make a big comment but stuff like the Yuuzhan Vong i didn’t like and even the forced unleashed games which i love but starkiller being responsible for helping the birth of the rebellion was pretty dumb but im sure that just one of many legends version of the origin of the rebellion which is my point it was too messy but im also the one to hate the many different dimensions in both DC and marvel. Anyways thank you for being respectful I’m not too knowledgeable on legends so please correct me for anything I was wrong in I do apologize
Another inconsistency is a Disney SW comic showed the Imperials burning lightsabers outside the ruined Jedi Temple, the last one being Yoda’s lightsaber which caused a huge explosion; however we see it completely undamaged when Luke presents it to Grogu in the Book of Boba Fett
Thanks for your comment! Yeah I forgot that one and also that they forgot Asajj died in the books too lol and they didn’t care to explain.
Went to a book store the other day and saw how many old books have the legends rebrand, some have been republished multiple times now. So at this point, if Disney can republish these books and sell them, they are still canon. And you know what? Since they came first I can elevate their continuity to be higher than the nu-star wars content.
That doesn’t mean they have the rights to reuse the ideas the rights nightmare tangle withe the original authors like how with the original movie George retained sequal rights to make darivitive products from them
Yup... The EU has more right to Star Wars continuity than anything Disney related 💯
I wrote a 15 page essay titled The Inconsistencies of the Star Wars Canon Timeline for one of my classes. It’s crazy, especially when looking at the initial announcement. The reason the EU was made “Legends” was because of inconsistencies between stories, and they claimed the new canon timeline would have no such inconsistencies… and yet here we are.
Thank you for your comment! Actually the reason they discount continued the expanded universe was because they wanted to do whatever they want and they wanted to surprise the audience. Which I think could be done while keeping elements of the expanded universe. They did say in the article that discontinued the expanded universe that they kept fighting to make expanded universe consistent with the films and if you look into a lot of the recon that they worked into it it is very impressive
I would love to read that essay!
So far they've contradicted canon a total of four times. Where are all these inconsistencies?
@ that’s a good question thank you for your comment! In my video I don’t just have 4 contradictions. I just put them in four points to kind of group them together. To make for a simpler video. I will post some videos in the future, going over different continuity errors in Star Wars and how the EU fixed it versus how the Disney Canon doesn’t care about it. I also wanted to give a brief history and context to the quote from Sam and how Dave changed the announced one canon universe to just a jumbled up mess of tales and legends
@@Aewon84 it’s mostly details from novels contradicting other novels and some television. I don’t want to go through everything but you might make me actually start a list
The only Star Wars canon outside Episodes 1-6 is the Expanded Univerde without Gayve Retconi’s retcons.
Fuck everything else, even the few good stuff
I remember when Hidalgo finally said their (Story Group's) job wasn't to guard and coordinate the continuity and thinking what the hell is it then, wasn't that the promise, when EU was declassified for one continuity of equal canonicity?
Thanks for your comment! What ever lie that makes more money
I mean, apparently the Story Group did stop JJ from blowing up Coruscant, instead making the system destroyed in TFA the Hosnian system, which gives us our system of rotating capitals for the New Republic, so there's that. There's like, one other thing I can't remember, but was a thing they did.
I've simply decided that all which I personally enjoy is Canon, and everything that falls short of my standards is Non-Canon.
It's a peaceful life.
I’ve been pretty random with what I consider canon since Greedo shot first in ‘97.
They’ve been releasing unabridged audio versions of the X-Wing books on audible and listening to those has been bringing me back to the early exciting days of the Star Wars EU.
Thank you for your comment! Yes I love those books and am so glad we have the full book now. Del Rey and all the publishers know what we want but Disney needs to give the green light for more new stories!
No, this just Filoni treating the current canon like he originally treated the EU, which was supposed to be canon back then, this is just inconsistencies in the canon.
Thank you for your comment. I do think that he doesn’t respect anything that is canon. But I do think this is the new rule moving forward because he is the chef creative officer
the star wars canon has always been such a mess than everything may as well be simultaneously canon and non canon
Anything Dave Filoni touches is not canon since it literally contradicts movies
Thank you for your comment! I can see your pov, I look at Dave’s stuff like what he says it is tall tales some is true some is not
@@fineadditions People say that The Clone Wars is Lucas's project, but I disagree. I think George just gave Filoni his blessing and freedom to play around with Star Wars setting, threw a few ideas at him and then his involvement was quickly diminishing. Filoni in his turn abused that trust by essentially making The Clone Wars not about adding to George's story and expanding it, but by finding ways to retcon not only the EU (if he even acknowledged EU even a single time) , but even the movies to fit in his own characters and ideas. That it the problem to this day: he basically ignores anything that isn't TV series produced by him.
@ I see what you mean I think Lucas was involved but there were to many people that were scared to say there would be problems also Dave used Lucas as an excuse whenever people would criticize the concepts in his show
Treating TCW as in universe propaganda, or as secondary canon instead of T-canon for legends are honestly the best ways to keep it if you want material Filoni didn't have a hand in creating to also be canon.
@@1000g2g3g4g800999 Or you can do what comicbook authors did for years, take a multiverse approach. The original 6 movies exclusively is Universe 1, the original 6 + parts of EU is Universe 2, 3, 4 or 5 (depends on what exactly do you want to include), and TCW universe will include all Filoni TV shows and a hypothetical remakes of the original trilogy by FIloni.
I have my own canon
I consider all Star Wars stories to be the retelling of events told by the Whills. I imagine the Whills arguing about inconsistencies. “That’s not how I heard it” as it were.
They aren't going the way of legends. Dave filioni seems to treat everything as equal by contradicting everything .
Thank you for your comment. Dave has ego canon and doesn’t like to play with others kind of like how Timothy Zahn is lol
Ditching the old EU was a massive mistake. What replaced it is kind of a mess.
Star Wars isn’t like a typical single author, book to movie adaptation. Rather Star Wass has always been collaborative. George has been selling his right to his own world for a long time, since Splinter of the Minds Eye. While I love George, appreciate his world, and effort for consistency, he can no longer be the sole voice of what is or isn’t canon. He literally sold Star Wars.
It is indeed up to the fans now to sort it out. I just hope we get a proper KOTOR 3 out of this with Chris Avellone 😄
So they’re basically just returning to the legends. But instead of bringing it back they’re just deciding to do the same thing with their ‘new’ canon.
Thank you for your comment. Yes for the most part. If anything they are just putting the Star Wars canon in the same level of the George Lucas - Lucas film Star Wars , In the we dont care about it just give us money level
Legends never die
The „more than one universe“ idea would have worked a lot better if it was so from day one like with transformers where from day one you had different continuities telling different stories that weren’t set in the same exact universe, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE SAME FOR STAR WARS AND YOU CANT CHANGE TUNE AFTER 35 YEARS OF STORYTELLING
Thank you for your comment. They had the infinities and visions timelines also the Lego Star Wars timeline
@@fineadditions yeah but thats minor compared to transformers where yu have a new tv show that is a whole new continuity every 3 to 5 years
Like with the Abrams Trek movies, where they had the courtesy to split a new timeline from the get go...
Now there has been a World Between Worlds for years but hasn't used it... argued several timelines would be confusing for people, so they can't continue old EU storylines, yet continue packing bookstores with "Legends" books and special essentials editions and game rereleases and ports etc. I just hate that dishonesty.
"Star Wars" has only 6 episodes.
Thank you for your comment, but I do have to say that two Ewok movies which were made in George Lucas‘s backyard are part of that
Only 6 Episodes and an Expanded Universe free from a Cowboy’s influence
Three, zoomer.
@@mechadeka #FakeFan
@mechadeka The distinction between real Star Wars and derivative works (I'd say fan content but most of the disney creators are not fans) isn't what you do and don't like, it's what George Lucas made himself or sanctioned the creation of and what he did not. You're as divorced from reality as disney fans who think those movies are as legitimate as George's.
Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
I would love to get adaptations of the greatest Legends novels, like Heir to the Empire and X-Wing. Similar to how Rogue One was labeled "A Star Wars Story" to indicate it was a spin-off, they should label these adaptations "A Star Wars Legend"
At the very least they needed to finish the books, games etc... that were in progress.
well done, your one of the first I've seen cover this. Disney just made the EU into Legends so they could repack and resale it. And it failed.
God. Star Wars is such a mismanaged franchise.
If you cared about Canon, you checked out in 2014, which is why few people were nitpicking the new novels. Filoni has never cared about continuity. He's always been a wrecking ball destroyed the continuity that others at Lucasfilm had worked hard to piece together. It was obvious from the sequel trilogy they were incapable of consistency. Abrams and Johnson weren't worried about continuity even with G-canon or each other. The promise of a more consistent continuity was a nice idea, but Disney showed immediately they were not willing or capable of managing it.
Failoni only cares about his OCs
Disney canon is trash... I just love how they claimed that there was "no source material" but then they turn around and completely rip off expanded universe stories... These people can't even keep their own continuity in order😂🤦🏻
Thank you for your comment! Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t know what she has. George Lucas told Disney that at the time Star Wars was worth more than marvel which I would agree with
We need force unleashed 3, I wouldnt be mad if it was a comic.
Star Wars is a disaster. The fact that all of this has to be combed through, and explained is just proof of that. Too many cooks in the kitchen at this point.
Thanks for your comment! They can fit it but they need a Kevin Feige and I don’t think Dave is their guy
Only George Lucas can deside What’s Canon or not!🙏🏻
Even when he dies ? That’s the problem with you people
@@marvolomethodJRR Tolkien died and rings of power isn’t canon. The Star Wars is like lord of the rings
The four books are like the Star Wars 1-6
The Christoper Tolkien books are like the EU
Disney Star Wars is rings of power for the most part
When they announced that the old EU would be deemed non-canon in favor of a unified timeline across all media, I was fine with it as there were various inconsistencies in the old EU.
A decade later and the new canon is falling into the same trap of new projects overruling old ones to the point where I wish they had just kept the old EU intact or better yet, make use of the "Legends" branding by going the multiverse route that superhero franchises do.
Properly label each project as part of a specific timeline and you can have different writers play in different sandboxes. Then Dave Filoni's comment about these being tall-tales makes perfect sense as we'd have different stories on how the Empire returned, how the Death Star Plans were acquired, etc.
Personally I don't force myself to stay up to date with everything, never have so I treat Star Wars the same as I always have: Form a headcanon based on the projects I like, ignore/try to justify any inconsistencies formed by said projects.
Thank you for your comment. I think you make a good point except I will have to disagree with you on the inconsistencies and the expanded universe. To my knowledge, all of them have been recon and resolved to make it more cohesive.
@@fineadditions i think the fan will gona start to build thier own canon. Just putt what story and characters you like.
@ I somewhat like that just as long as we get more legacy books
The Thing is the Expanded universe wasnt nearly AS inconsistent AS people Claim IT was ,they actually Put a good amount of effort into making IT consistent,rewrote earlier books to make it fit better. A Lot of the EU haters Bring Up random books that were clearly never Cannon to BE begin with and Cherrypick examples, the Star wars Universe was pretty consistent before filonis TCW Show compared to Other Franchises but TCW Bulldozered all over the Cannon and i think George Lucas didnt Care at that Point about Star wars anymore that much given how Just a few years later when TCW started IT was Sold to the devil aka Disney.
@@laisphinto6372 yeah that’s about right also TCW is just tall tales and propaganda know so yeah that makes was George’s idea
Filoniverse and disney has nothing to do with the Expanded Universe canon and are functionally separate. Any forced retcon injections can be easily disregarded since it is usually replacing answers and info that already exists
Thank you for your comment! The only thing Filoni that is legends is TCW because of the legends TCW tie in’s this can work because Dave says it is like a tall tale and a legends gaming book hints it is propaganda
So the One-Universe Canon under Disney is just a facade for what LucasFilm has been doing since the Holocron Continuity Databasetism thing.
Thank you for your comment! Yes it is
1-6 for me & the older books.
It is worth noting that "T cannon" was created for Filoni. He refused to be confined to a lower level of canon and have to work with other writers/creators. He would then use this new "power" to end projects that didn't adhere to his canon. So for me and many others (while having cool moments or story arc) the clone wars is was never canon.
Karen Traviss deserved better.
More like it was made for George Lucas. He didn’t mind adding to the lore but didn’t want to be restricted when he wants to do something. Almost all of the the retcons of the EU in the show were confirmed to be decisions by George himself after all. I think Dave just carried on his philosophy into Disney's era because that's just how George did things.
I love Sam and Dave, but I hard disagree with them about it being good when things don’t line up. I love me some good continuity, and it just rubs me the wrong way when new materials contradicts established material.
The clone wars is firmly a part of the new Disney canon now and shouldn’t be lumped in with legends because it contradicts way too much even the films
Thank you for your comment! I would agree with you but there are to many stories that legends tie in to TCW that it can’t be taken out but if we treat it like how Dave and Sam see it (a tall tale) it can fit into legends where some is true and some is not. This is hinted at in some legends gaming books that TCW could be propaganda
If we’re talking about tcw tie-in material I can understand but as for the clone wars multimedia project that ran from 2002 to 2006 before tcw is bulldosed over by it in many areas and even directly contradicts both attack of the clones and revenge of the sith itself which is g cannon
Those EU Star Wars guidebooks before being branded as Legends were more meant to be accurate into canon, but the undoing of what is canon or not has been happening so many times, is the question we all must ask ourselves, why should the writers have even bothered in going into that detail, if it's just a legend. Out of all the fictional franchises, this has got to be the most nihilistic handling of continuity meaning I have ever seen, because events have no meaning from TCW and onwards.
Thank you for your comment! I’m on the same page! If it was all tales and legends why did Lucas care. I think Dave and Lucasfilm are just cherry picking views that Lucas had that fit there views. Because in the 90s Lucas liked that story tellers wanted to talk Star Wars stories and he gave guidance. Then he flip flopped till he liked it again and even saying that Vader having grandKIDS was part of the saga
@fineadditions The thing is Dave wanted to make a different continuity was not the problem, is the fact that he had it involved with the EU that was his detriment stain on the fanbase, had he just said that TCW was separate from the EU, he could have avoid a lot of heat, but for some reason he didn't want it to be a separate continuity and then DID.
I can count the amount of times they've contradicted canon on one hand. Star Wars is more consistent with its lore than literally every other major franchise.
@@Aewon84 yes but it was way better in the eu and they promised that it would be better then even the EU and it wasn’t
@@Aewon84 also there are more contradictions that fit in one hand the there’s all the continuity errors in the Ashoka novel, Cobb Vance, Darth Vader in the obi wan show, Rex saying in rebels he didn’t betray the Jedi when in fact he did. Just to name a few more
I honestly have faith that one day we will get more Star Wars tales set during the Old Republic.
Thank you for your comment! That would be great! They have the stories from the MMO that would make great novels and comics
I like legends so much more im just gonna consider that cannon personally and go on with my day
Yeah you could always just only go by legends. That’s the one you like more, nothing wrong with that. You just can’t say it’s canon, they’re two different continuities.
Legends is the one true and only legitimate canon
@@chewy99.and “Legends” is the canon continuity
@@chewy99. Yes you can because the copyright holder doesn't decide canon, YOU DO because you are the one who ultimatly decides what stories matter to you and what stories don't. Most legit Star Wars fans reject Disney and embrace the EU so that settles it.
I remember the year Disney brought star wars .i got into the legends books and i fell in love with stars wars again in a time when i needed an outlet
Hollywood/normies cant love star wars like genuine fans so we need to take it back and write our own stories
Thanks for the comment. I started diving deep into the eu in 2012 it was a time!
Star Wars is Lucas and the expanded universe's authors who worked with him at Skywalker Ranch. It is not anything from Disney, so far.
Star Wars is nothing from Disney and Dave Retconi
Honestly, there are some good things in Disney Canon just like they’re good things and legends if they do decanonized everything they built in the new canon I would be really mad so I hope they don’t do that it was enough, losing everything from the old canon. It seems meaningless just to make new stories just for them to be erased. i’m a fan of both. I kind of wish they still made stories for legends and canon. There’s no reason why we can’t have both Marvel has multiple universes. Why can’t Star Wars?
Agreed. I'll agree with anyone that Disney "ruined star wars" but I can't lie and say I hate all of Disney canon. There's a decent chunk of good stuff. They just slowly keep ruining stuff. But if I ignore the sequel era and half the shows it's not too bad 😂
Like Andor
@@Сайтамен or the darth vadee marvel comics, they are pretty good
Thanks for your comments everyone! I wish they did both and it’s funny the stuff does does that is good could fit into legends with little effort
Disney Canon is the equivalent of a botched abortion 💯😂
They are doing things on a whim for the sake of money, they lied to eu fans and it’s biting them cause the stories aren’t as good!
Wow how lazy is Filoni? Using the "tall tales" reasoning is just a way of not having to concern yourself with having to keep up with what other writers have done.
I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I much prefer absolute consistency. On the other, I'm not overly bothered so long as conflicting stories don't actually change the story on some fundamental level to the extent that they couldn't just be different interpretations of the same events. The Kanan stuff is a perfect example of this. The two versions have many differences, but at the end of the day, they're still portraying the same core events. Order 66 happens and the troopers kill Kanan's master while she fights them off so he can escape.
I hate if they’re actually doing that. So far it isn’t really bad, there’s only a few things that are irreconcilably different like a good amount of things from the Ahsoka novel and the order 66 part of the Kanan comics, as well as maybe what happened to Yoda’s lightsaber since it was seemingly destroyed in a furnace in the Vader comics but somehow Luke has it in the book of boba Fett.
Thank you for your comment. It was also supposed to be in Yoda hut.
Kanan’s first story is entirely gone because Captain Styles no longer exists or at least doesn’t have that same emotional connection (or need) to kill Kanan. Plus Ventress’ existence in the Bad Batch removes Dark Disciple. Other than that everything is consistent. (The Acolyte’s idea are another one that sort of undermines but does not directly contradict the movies.)
@@lord_egg lol I forgot about Asajj being brought back from the dead lol I guess that’s want I get for giving up on the books and cartoons
@@lord_egg They said Asajj’s survival would be explained. I guess if there’s gonna be someone to die and come back a nightsister is a good candidate since they have weird magick ceremonies and zombies.
@@chewy99. True, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS a retcon. Maul's revival was also a retcon. Explainable and the first of it's kind (which is why lots of people hate Palps return but defend Maul's) but still a retcon.
Naah, it's just lazy writing & planing in general. They don't care that much.
Star Wars prefers it to be multiple choice for a continuity 😅
Well put
EU is real cannon. DISNEY CANON = MEH
Thanks for the comment! I agree with that. I do like 10% of Disney Star Wars through
the interesting thing about the single universe strategy would be that you could plan out and coordinate major long term plans like prophecies and other events.
if everything is separate then we perhaps wont get that epic grand scale of old Star Wars.
Thanks for the comment! I do miss the planned out stories we got from the expanded universe but before Disney they gave a group of people some power over the story to fix it if to many cooks make a mess now they just don’t care and they don’t want to tie it all together like the EU
Disney in 2012: We built a new story line where they would all be on the same canon level, so we erased the expanded universe
Disney now: F*ck it all, tell them that all the stories are like stories with different visions of stories or some other shit, but SELL THE STORIES TO THEM AND BRING ME A LOT OF MONEY, WE NEED MONEY AND LGBT PROPAGANDA TO FINANCE US!
9:10 and that is one of the many reasons why Star Wars has consistently sucked since Disney bought it.
Thank you for your comment! Dave Filoni is the chief creator at LF so yeah I don’t know why people think he can save Star Wars the mandaloren started going done hill when they introduced his characters
IMO there should be 2 separate SW canons:
Legends - everything done before Disney bought SW minus things that continued it's production in Disney era: Dawn of the Jedi comics, KOTOR game and comics, books about Darth Bane, Plagueis, 6 movies, Clone Wars mini-series, many games, Zahn's trilogy, Yuuzhan Vong etc.
Disney - everything made during Disney and what was continued under Disney's rule: The Old Republic MMO (whole), High Republic, 6 original movies (duh!), Disney movies and shows, Dave Filoni's Clone Wars (whole), Jedi Survivor and Fallen Oder etc.
This would tidy up things. Made it easier to explain inconsistencies to newbies. And it doesn't really divide all works into good canon/lesser canon, as both canons would have true pearls and really bad stuff.
But we as a community has to create a canon version of stories, that is easy enough to follow. So that we wouldn't have to argue on case-per-case basis. So that we could welcome new fans without telling them the show they liked is not really canon. And so that we could play RPG together.
Thanks for your comment! Did you put Swtor under Disney canon?
@@fineadditions Yes, I think so.
@@cyfreusz it is apart of the eu timeline
The Old Republic MMO was made prior to Disney and thus is Legends.
Great video man! I like how organized and focused everything in this video is. That's one thing I wish to have in my writing! Keep making good videos!
Thanks for the comment. Thank you so much for the kind words. You can do it just find want gets you excited and write about it then talk about it
It’s less a question of “what is canon” and more “what group do you fit into.”
Like how scripture in religion is debated and different groups center around different texts, so is Star Wars Canon no longer effectively determined by a top down dictation. Rather different compilations and groups can and have emerged regarding canon.
OT purists
6 film purists.
Old expanded universe fans pre TCW.
Old eu fans with TCW.
Disney canon fans
Show canon fans
A mix of Disney and EU, favoring Disney.
A mix of both, favoring the old EU.
Picking and choosing based on one’s own consumption and determination of continuity.
Star Wars is wonderful, but any continuity course correction the old EU was making was dashed by TCW. Then Disney finished the Job. Now, Filoni and others are decimating the new canon as well.
We can say that it’s based on one’s proximity to, or the word of George Lucas that determines canon… but that cannot be the case.
Unlike novels -> films like LOTR which all emerge from one mind, Star Wars has always been collaborative.
George worked on films as a team, and his team helped make them great.
He permitted the old EU.
He sold Star Wars.
In short, George has never been the sole voice, and so cannot be the final voice.
The tiers of canon was an effort to ‘set things right’ with the release of TCW.
This may have worked a bit had it been held to, but in practice it was just permission for certain works to overtake others for better or worse.
This is just my opinion, but with so many options and stories, it is less about creating a single coherent world, and more about finding your community of likeminded enjoyers.
Thank you for your comment. I do think that Star Wars moving forward is a group of inconsistent tall tales and legends actually help retroactively feeding the clone wars show into the expanded universe if we simply view it as tall tales
I catagorise Star Wars under two banners; Disney Canon and the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
I refuse to use the Disney Legends catagorisation. It devalues the body of work that is the Expanded Universe.
Within those two realms, I enjoy what I want to enjoy. And I encourage others to come to the same conclusion. I enjoy some of the Expanded Universe, whilst I loathe some of the Expanded Universe. I enjoy some of Disney Star Wars, whilst I loathe some of Disney Star Wars.
The best way to enjoy Star Wars is to enjoy it your way!
The onlyy good canon books are tarkin, lords of the sith, thrawn trilogy( barely) and dark disciple (barely)
Brotherhood? Master and Apprentice? Rise of the Red Blade? Shadow of the freaking Sith??? Come on now
The difference between canon and Legends is that canon doesn't have bad books.
@@Aewon84aftermath trilogy the last Jedi battlefront 2 I would have to say what I’ve read from the thrawn books they are bad too
@@Freddy3763from want I heard shadow of the sith is just damage control for ep 9
@@Aewon84 Eh I’d have to disagree with that, but canon certainly does have a heap of good books. Probably more good than bad in comparison because Legends has so many more books and such a big variety of
The Aftermath trilogy from Wendig was by far my favourite piece of canon media since the switch, he does a lot to set up the return of Palpatine, as well as plenty of foreshadowing of this "extragalactic threat" that Palpatine created the Empire to counter - it felt like a touch of the classic EU novels we all loved. Disney writing that off would be heart breaking.
Thank you for your comment! I enjoyed the aftermath trilogy before I started to really dive into the expanded universe, and I’ve grown to dislike it. I do think that some parts of it would have been written different if they had known that Palpatine would return. I think if Palpatine returning was part of the plan, it would’ve happened at the same way that it happened in dark Empire
The Aftermath books are terrible and Chuck Wendig is an awful man (Which is why he got fired from SW writing).
@@RoboticPope Chuck definitely isn't a good person, he's a far Left buffoon. But that's the reason he was fired, it had nothing to do with his writing.
@@RoboticPope from what I understand, Chuck Wendig is like a radical communist. The kind of dude to not return to work after a return to work order. Definitely not my favorite guy. But he was fired for those controversial stances, not for his writing being bad. You can separate the art and the artist very easily here.
For me, all disney content is legends excepting the two and a half things they made right, while the rest before Disney is canon. I'll never gonna change my mind, no matter how much disney tells me to do so, i just won't.
Thanks for your comment! The good stuff from Disney is most likely stuff that fits in the eu
Ultimately for me the purest canon is Episode I-VI and The Clone Wars Season 1-6. Those were Lucas‘ projects. I love a lot of other stories, both canon and legends, and disagree with some, both canon and legends. But they are all derivatives.
I think TCWs7 deserves to be in there too because they were all stories that they already had in the works coming down the pipeline, Siege of Mandalore in particular.
Nice Brady!!! 🔥
Appreciate it!!
I’m all for pruning the canon and definitely for one universe but it needs to be in competent hands.
Cool video
Thanks! Scott!!
I like the idea of the campfire tales, BUT in my eyes it has to be clear that this is a thing and that we as watchers/readers/gamers have a chance to know whenever something is the real deal, if you know what I mean. Also stuff has to be a believable version of what really happened.
I had two moments in the same show when something shown in the later season doesn't match up with what was told in the first. But the first instance were objective facts not matching and the second, when i thought a moment about it, was a case of an unreliable narrator.
They could have continued the legends line and pleased everyone, but nope. Also, Timothy Zahn's sequel trilogy vs Chuck Wendig's? HA!
Thanks for your comment! Yeah Aftermath was so rushed chuck bragged he wrote the first one in 40 days
@@fineadditions lol, it absolutely shows. it reads like a first draft where the author was just like, "this is fine"
Despite the hate it got, I actually respect the fact that The Last Jedi had the guts to kill off Luke Skywalker. One movie did what decades of expanded universe stories could not. The same can be said for Han and Leia as well. Obviously they had died since there are stories set a hundred years after the OT. But it would be nice to conclude the stories of the OT heroes in the expanded universe once and for all.
When it comes to “canon” I use 3 timelines:
1. Disney Canon: this includes the PT, OT, ST, TCW and everything released after Disney acquired the rights to Lucasfilm
2. Legends Timeline: this is the PT, OT, TCW tie-in material* and everything published/released prior to the Disney acquisition
3: Old EU Timeline: these are the stories prior to the prequels and were retconned by George Lucas when he released the PT
Thank you for your comment The Eu wanted to kill Luke in new Jedi Order but George said no because he wanted to use him in a movie that’s why chewy died
TCW doesnt even fit into movie canon
for me Canon is the EU under Lucas, Episode 1-6, Clone wars, Rogue one, the OB1 Tv show = basically everything except sequels
if a book is not matching up with a TV show/movie the movie/show wins
Luke weds Jade, they had a kid, Liea and Solo had 3 kids,
no Rey Palpatine, no Fin, or Poe
Thanks for the comment! I do that to for my head canon I like trying to fit R1 and Andor into the eu
By current canon Poe was born on Yavin 4 when the rebels were based there. He would still exist, but be different. My head canon has him train under Wedge.
@@joshuamueller3206 yeah I think the comic he is born in can fit into legends so that could work
If this interpretation is to be correct, this would mean that Star Wars canon as a concept would no longer exist.
Honestly I hope this is the case because ultimately the Star Wars community for too long has been divided by vitriol and anger.
I really like this video because it doesn't leave me frustrated. Perhaps the Sith have been dominating Star Wars discourse, perhaps the words of Yoda be taken into consideration. To let go... Of everything we fear to lose. For our story is one with the force, and all Star Wars media can be considered like how many times we have retold the tales of Robin Hood, Pinocchio, or MacBeth.
Star Wars is what George Lucas wanted... Star Wars is truely our modern myths. And the search for purity of our myths is the path of the Dark side. The universe is as mysterious as it is protrayed to be.
Canon purity is sith logic.
This interpretation of my own now.
Thank you for your comment! I will have to disagree with you George Lucas did want to make a modern myth. However he did motivate the people working on the projects to say consistent with one another. Like for instance they wanted to kill Luke in the book series new Jedi order but George said no because he wanted to use him in his sequels he would give authors sourcebook to stay consistent because he liked the way the universe worked
Wanting a cohesive narrative that doesnt contradict itself?Sith logic i suppose.
@@Yusufqxq Nah, I was just huffing copium.
@ a Sith wants disorder and conflict. A Jedi wants peace and balance. I never thought of putting a faction to it. But imagine watching the original Star Wars learning about the force how it is connected by all living things. we meet Luke who is a boy. Aunt and Uncle were killed by the Empire. But then in Empire strikes back the force comes from a rock, Luke Skywalker as a girl and her aunt Uncle Warren burn alive but frozen to death and he never saw the body’s . And instead of explaining this, they just gaslight you into thinking that it’s good that it’s not consistent. Star Wars would not have continued being great if it didn’t build off the building box of the previous story
I never hate the new canon because it is actually gave us new stories and some new facctions and new characters like the crimson dawn and let's not forget that thanks to disney we have bad batch and one of the best protagonist of all time The mandalorian.
Thank you for your comment. I’m so glad that you enjoyed the Disney Canon. I feel the same way about the expended universe and how they brought in more factions, new characters and even created and or expanded the things that Disney likes to take credit for.
Bad Batch is lame version of Delta and Omega squads from K. Treviss books, and Din Djarin ruined in season 3. That's how Disney treats they own concepts. EU has more than 30 years to have some mess in it, yet new (10 years +-) canon just in the same state with people like Filoni, who just shits on the work of other authors. Only think I can say thanks is Tony Gilroy and Gareth Edwards for R1 and Andor
Let’s not forget the high republic 🙌🏼
I prefer Prince Xizor's Black Sun and Tyber Zann's Consortium for the crime syndicate factions.
What canon level are the Lego star wars games? (Not lego infinity)
Thank you for your comment! On the canon level list LEGO Star Wars 1-3 would be under non canon or S Canon and I think the Skywalker saga and force awakens are considered in continuity with the LEGO Star Wars TV shows at least the cut scene parts
@fineadditions thank you
I don't want the deaths of Han, Luke, and Leia, but it would be nice to have some stories to sort of wrap up and finish connecting the Legends timeline to a more satisfying conclusion. We know they will die eventually, but I don't need them going out in some over done blaze of glory. Part of the problem with EU is it had gone too bleak and too much was crumbling. I want the OTs story to end with a period of peace, and then let Legacy comics continue to the eventual restoration of the galactic republic because triumvirates are a stupid form of government... maybe necessary for a transitional point in the comics, but for pity's sake let the empire finally die.
I’ve pretty much considered everything canon until otherwise said, it just makes it easier to keep up with
I’m conflicted about this. Part of me is upset, part of me isn’t. I love the Disney canon (not every single bit of it) and I like some of the legends stuff. Feels like a bit of a copout. I feel like Disney shouldn’t do this and just ride it out like Kobe and the Lakers. However on the other side of the coin I’m thinking Star Wars has always been a messy franchise with so many contradictions so why not? It is a multiverse afterall. The way I see it is that everything is canon and not canon at the same time. So if this is going to be a continuous thing over the years where they make a new canon and make the previous one legends I wouldn’t mind. I just love Star Wars flaws and all. Every Star Wars fan can like what they want even if it’s that really old Holiday Special. Sorry for this long comment but that’s how I feel.
Thanks for the comment! I’m glad you enjoy canon. From want I’ve seen the eu is not as messy as canon. But I do think the way you look at it is interesting!
Ew... Disney canon is the equivalent of a botched abortion😂
Star Wars is(Was) a singular cohesive saga,not a Multiverse. Unfortunetly Disney seems to disaggre.
@ it really was never cohesive
@@Lugiamasterbrony When the parts of the whole work or fit together well, it is cohesive.Thanks to efforts of the Holocron contunity database and work of many others,decades of fiction created independently fit together just the way they should
Always has been, disney crap is just bad fanfics
Umm... Didn't the big 3 become one with the force at the very end of the old EU? It was a weird stand alone i ignored as Disney canon was due out to replace it, but i think they technically died there.
Thank you for your comment. They didn’t die then it would have been a good place being the last book but sadly no
They essentially retired from being main characters, handing over the reins to the next generation of characters.
Anything done by Dismal Disney/Lucas Fluffs up after George Lucas sold the franchise does not count. All Dismal Disney Star Bores material is political propaganda, and will never be accepted by TRUE FANS, unlike the ACTIVIST based rubbish! All Star Wars stopped when George Lucas sold up! Thank you for your time.❤
Thank you for your comment! I wouldn’t say all the stories are political propaganda also marvel 108 was a really good story.
I don’t view. This is a bad thing if there are two universes one with legends and one with Disney I’m fine with that because Disney can keep their shitty stories I don’t want anything to do with them, Star Wars legends will always be superior.
Please, please, the 'Sword of the Jedi' trilogy that was supposed to be next after 'Crucible' to be written by Christie Golden. I've got and read most of the post-Endor Bantam/Del Rey era and I just have to know what's next- all we have is the cover art. The fact she's still writing Star Wars Canon novels means she's still available to do it if the opportunity arose. In fact, a surprising number of old EU authors are still around, and some - including Timothy Zahn - have even written for Disney.
George's idea of canon is give or take what I also had in my head. Like yeah, the movies and the books from the movies are the real deal and then the rest depending on how closely George was involved in making them. The expanded universe has some crazy stories that I didn't really like. Also I can't get behind the fan service of bringing Maul back in CW. It never sat well with me and I know that I am a minority in that but it just doesn't make sense in many ways and messes up with the concept of death in the universe. Only thing that saved Maul in my head was Sam's performance which was phenomenal and I was looking forward to it. And I'll say it once more, bringing Maul back was what gave the SW 9:ROS writers the ability and the confidence to bring Palpatine back from the dead in the abomination of a movie that was Episode 9... We've seen him come back in some older books but never on a popular show or movie. It's like starting a chain reaction.
One type of canon is not sustainable for the SW Universe. Mistakes will happen, bad stories will be told. Hell, even bad movies will be made (see sequel trilogy). They should bring back the G-Canon for George's stuff (as it's by far the most consistent due to the quantity of the material alone) and then tell stories based on the SW Universe regardless of whether they are consistent or not so anyone can pick whatever they like and just accept that there will never be consistency or one sided stories when you mass produce them without a solid plan and without a team that checks every little detail and has real passion for the source material.
Some of the newer projects were colossal failures... I could write a better script with less plot holes than the Acolyte and that's something I firmly believe (although the bar is way too low). I can't consider that show canon... Or whatever Solo was. Was it a fun movie? Probably yeah. Was it a good Star Wars story? Hell no. I refuse to believe that that's how he got his name or the way he met Chewbacca among other stuff.
The only SW movie I really enjoyed from Disney was Rogue One. Good script that fills a plot hole and introduces a nicely written protagonist that kicks ass in Jyn, a new but not so important power hungry villain in Krennic and Andor, a good deuteragonist that shows the duality of being a rebel and from whom we also got a great series.
Thank you for the Comment! I agree and disagree with you on the statement that there should just be the George Lucas Cannon his films. I wouldn’t say that they are very consistent since he does bring up certain continuity errors between trilogies that do get fed up with C canon. I do think many of people would argue that teach. CW should be a part of the George Lucas Cannon, but that creates even more continuity errors with the films.
Oddly, Maul coming back was supposedly Lucas's plan for the ST from the beginning, it is one of the few confirmed things from Lucas's notes for that trilogy.
Nice video!
Thank you so much!
Just reading ur title and immediatly thinking and feeling: ppllss, this should be a reality! Looong over due. didn't even watch ur video yet.
Luke and Obi-Wan are gay now didnt you know!?
And Ahsoka is their Lesbian daughter, which is why she is the last Skywalker
According to Kathleen Kennedy (south park version) they're now two cringe lesbians
Huh?
I think you might be reading a little too much into it. I don't think it's a bad thing that writers aren't completely confining themselves to making sure everyone completely matches with no contradictions. That's just insane.
And let's be real here, the old EU was just as bad, if not worse.
Thanks for the comment! I will have to disagree with you. It is pretty realistic to be able to have a cohesive story, especially if a lot of people are paid to have that job. That was the point of the 2014 story group. Also the writers and story group for the expanded universe continued to keep everything consistent. if there was a inconsistency which there were plenty, they would so it into the story and make it look good unlike the Disney canon.
@fineadditions You mean attempt to make the contradictions work. Like having the death star plans get stolen like ten different times, so they had to make some really stupid explanation about how they were all different pieces of the plans or something or other.
Or how about Boba Fett having a doppelganger because they wrote him completely different before his backstory was revealed, so apparently it was actually a different bounty hunter cosplaying as Boba... for some reason.
Or my favorite. The Clone Wars in the Thrawn books being not even close to what we eventually got in the prequels. I can't even remember if they tried to handwave that away. I'm kinda glad I don't.
Oh yeah, didn't Shaak Ti also die like three separate times in Legends? Once at the Battle of Coruscant in the Clone Wars 2D cartoon, once at the Jedi temple during Order 66, and once by Starkiller on Felucia after she seemingly revived for a second time.
Point is, I like Legends, but sitting here saying it was more cohesive than the Disney canon is just hilariously blinded by nostalgia for it.
@ I like your passion but all of the things you just said got fixed
Boba Fett was undercover as Jaster for a mission who was named after his grandfather.
The Nogri have a different calendar then the galactic calendar
And she didn’t die in clone wars she died twice in revenge of the sith but those were deleted so not canon and TFU was her canon death. To my knowledge all the contradictions were fixed and the eu works together
@fineadditions Yeah but it's really dumb.
@@tristanskywalker1998 also there were several parts to the Death Star plans
a lot of the EU is utter garbage as well so honestly just come up with your own canons at this rate, love what you love, there will never be a good official canon again
Thank you for your comment! I do agree that there won’t be a good official canon anymore. I do think that they could continue the expanded universe and we could have a good alternative. I do also see a lot of people say that a lot of the EU is garbage. Would you care to elaborate? I’ve read a good chunk of the expanded universe. I would have to disagree the majority of people that make that comment have only heard the concepts out of context and haven’t even read the books and are just repeating what they hear people say. Because if it was that bad, we wouldn’t have had 37 years of it. I am working on a video about the things that people hate about the expanded universe, and I would love to hear your point of view.
37 years of work that kept the franchise alive.
Garbage because you havent read shit.Sure.
@fineadditions one thing I hate is the novel "dawn of the jedi: into the void". Honestly the worst star wars book i have read. I was so excited and left so disappointed. "Knight errant" was also disappointing until the last 3rd of the book
@@tedpogue6531 I can see want you mean, Dawn of the Jedi definitely works better if you read the comics first I don’t know if you’re into that but as a standalone, it is pretty shocking. Also KE I would have to say the same thing to read the comics first and I think they take place chronologically before it so it’s kind of strange that both of those books weren’t just comic books.
@@fineadditions thats fair. I hear the comics themselves are pretty cool. I've been meaning to get around to them but so many damn novels lol. The only comics I've read are the legacy comics and dark empire. (Also, them saying "bitch" in the dawn of the jedi novel threw me off so hard.)
Most of legends was trash though ngl
Thank you for your comment! But I’m gonna have to disagree with you. Could you give me a few examples of books and comics that you have read. I’ve read a good majority of legends. There were a few out-of-pocket things. Most of the times someone says that they’ve not read it and just heard someone else say it’s bad.
Have you even read any to begin with? Or are you just parroting Disney Shills and NPCs?
me and you both know you haven't read any of it.
@@fineadditions I wanted to like legends so bad I hear the opposite actually I hear everyone praise it but I just can’t get into it I hate how messy it is and the timeline for legends is all over the place and I know Disney has shitty stuff and have already retconned some of their material but I just like how much tidy and linear the Disney timeline is and in my opinion some stuff they did better like I prefer Disney thrawn compared to legends thrawn. But some stuff in legends are good like the old republic is way better than Disneys stupid high republic. I don’t wanna make a big comment but stuff like the Yuuzhan Vong i didn’t like and even the forced unleashed games which i love but starkiller being responsible for helping the birth of the rebellion was pretty dumb but im sure that just one of many legends version of the origin of the rebellion which is my point it was too messy but im also the one to hate the many different dimensions in both DC and marvel. Anyways thank you for being respectful I’m not too knowledgeable on legends so please correct me for anything I was wrong in I do apologize
@@claytonveno3710 i wouldn’t have commented if i didn’t or i would just plain out say Disney Star Wars is the best