We recorded this half a year ago now, so this one's a littler rougher around the edges than our more recent material. It's nice to finally be able to let you all see it though. Part 2, recorded much more recently, will be up next week. I hope you enjoy our thoughts on the series.
Fanalysis i remember during one of your Plagueis review videos, one of you mentioned that you'd be uploading forcecast episodes much more frequently. I've laughed ever since, but glad to see it actually happening.
Reti4 - I love her at times, but most of the time she's portrayed as a snarling berserker assassin. I prefer the Ventress that's worked through most of her issues and had some of the ol' Kenobi wit rub off on her nearing the end of the Clone Wars.
I remember one of the most infuriating things about a certain reaction video to this series: "Can they talk? Why don't they talk? How can I like them if they don't talk? I don't understand? What are they doing? They seem to have character." To which my reaction was: "Gee. It's almost like they're meant to be efficient faceless soldiers"
I love the microseires. This should have been the true episode 2 (AOTC is episode 1, ROTS is the same). It best represents the character arc of Anakin Skywalker. AOTC represents the origin of the Jedi Anakin Skywalker as a cocky and annoying Padwan, the Microseries represents his knighthood and his rise as a war hero, and ROTS represents his fall to the darkside.
hahaha well if you look at the episode that Padme and Yoda reunite she totally is crushing on him. She's overly happy to see him. And in Episode II see her brought warm feelings to his heart.
The thing with Anakin that you guys are talking about shows the problems with how he was raised and part of an incomplete education that he receives. Grow up till he is 10 as a slave and then when he joins the Jedi order they have no clue how to deal with the turmoil that he has gone through. If he came into being during a different Jedi order he could have developed quite differently. Basically the Jedi needed to work with professional psychologists and have group sessions to both learn together and help teach. An emotionally healthy Anakin would have taken him from the ultimate potential to the unquestioned G.O.A.T. in the universe.
this micro series is what laid the foundation and planted the SEEDS for me into becoming a Star Wars fan.......... looking back at it I just think to myself how well done it was, and still is :D
I don't think Mace or Grievous are really presented as overpowered in this series, but I don't feel like going into full analysis as to why, but I'll do a quick rundown. Mace using force enhanced martial arts to rek super battle droids and why they don't really shoot at him: Powerful Force users can augment themselves to move at supersonic speeds, I doubt B2's can actually get a good shot on him, especially not without risking shooting each other. His crazy force leaps: In a universe where Luke can patch a black hole, reborn Sidious can create a Force storm that can affect a planet and a multi mile long super ship, Nihulus can drain a whole planet of Force energy/life, Yoda can levitate 5 multi ton statues at an age passed 800 (I believe he could lift all 6 before his 700's). Hush, child, Jedi can lift and hurl stuff that weighs many tons, I'm sure someone on Mace's level can throw himself a mile or two. Grievous fighting 6 Jedi: Grievous is probably the best lightsaber duelist of his time and this is before his severe organ crush by Mace. The Jedi he was fighting at the time were tired and not super impressive in the first place (besides Shak-Ti and Ki to a lesser extent, who are pretty powerful). Grievous had fought Mace to a stalmate, even closely mimicking his Vapaad in literal seconds and causing Mace to become concerned, implying Mace feared that if he continued fighting Grievous, he would perfectly copy Vapaad and not only possibly kill him, but go on to kill others with Vapaad. I can go into depth on just how dangerous and powerful Grievous is anytime, if there's any doubts.
Anakin vs Ventress is perhaps my favorite fight in Star Wars, it is a beautiful combination of lightsaber dueling, use of the force and tactics/environment, with some real character progression and great use of the score. I also like how the miniseries made Shaak Ti really cute.
Reti4 - Anakin Vs Ventress is definitely one of the epic duels of the setting, for sure. Not sure about cute, but Shaak Ti certainly makes my top 10 favourite SW characters list. She is awesome incarnate.
Reti4 - Off the top of my head and in no particular order, these are top favourites of mine: Shaak Ti, Luke Skywalker, Plo Koon, Tallisibeth Enwandung-Esterhazy, Obi-wan Kenobi, Jaina Solo, Vima Sunrider, Siri Tachi, Ahsoka Tano, Mon Mothma, Yoda. There are definitely more, but it's difficult to remember everyone in the moment.
Jensaaeai said it best for me. With the Microseries and TCW, here was always my thoughts about Greivous (before the microseries was moved to Legends). Greivous was NEVER meant to be taken seriously... this is gonna take some explaining. Everyone who ever met Greivous, died. He was meant to take his opponents by surprise, and he used that shock to his advantage killing his opponents. He was purely a weapon of intimidation. Then the Battle of Hypori happened. And, for the first time, as far as I know, Jedi survived encountering him. And those survivors relayed Greivous' existence to the other Jedi. And that was the first domino that set off this effect. Now that people know about him, he's lost his element of surprise. And that always explained Greivous' transformation from cold, calculating killer to sniveling coward in TCW. Because no one is surprised anymore, he doesn't have that intimidation, which means he's lost everything that made him an effective weapon. (Also poor/ lazy writing XD. Every situation Greivous was placed in, it felt like the writers forgot until the very end, "oh wait! He has to survive to make it to Revenge of the Sith, get him out of there.")
You know, Grievous' performance on Hypori is way overblown. Yeah it looks good but when you really look at it. You have Shaak Ti: Ataru which she is too exhausted to use and Makashi with Grievous hitting like a truck) K'Kruhk: Not the greatest duelist, even if he was likely the least exhausted. Aalya: Not really top tier either. Also uses Ataru so exhaustion cripples her. Ki-Adi: Ataru, which he can't use due to exhaustion. Makashi, Grievous once again hits like a truck. Soresu, which he actually *does* hold out for a fair bit with. Then you have the fodder. No explanation needed. In the grand scheme of things it's not *that* good.
Yeah, the really impressive part is how he is able to fend them off simultaneously or in quick succession and how quickly he overpowered them once forced into a 1vs1. Makashi is still very dangerous and I doubt they were totally unable to use Ataru. Coupled with his performance on Coruscant I think his performance is only slightly overrated.
I think the part where they're talking about Grievous running away, I mean...he was up against Anakin and Obi-Wan at the beginning, taking out his ship by destroying the front glass then launching all escape pods is honestly the absolute smartest and most impressive thing he could've done. In TCW he has no excuse to run away and be a coward.
I think Reti4 is giving his Jedi bias too much credit when concerning Grievous, Grievous moves faster, learns faster and thinks faster than any organic being, no matter how powerful a Jedi is, it's not a simple "Any high master can use the Force, done" He can move faster than a normal being can see, the only reason Jedi can keep up with him in combat is because of their precognition, using a Force ability anywhere near strong enough to hurt him, let alone kill or immobilize him takes too much time, skill, accuracy and just outright power than nearly any Jedi can muster in time to use it against him. If you notice, Mace was able to crush him because Grievous wasn't expecting the Force, he was expecting Mace to actually come at him with his lightsaber, this is a mistake that he made that he immediately learned from. The prerequisites and requirements needed by a Jedi to kill Grievous with a "simple" application of the force are extremely high and unlikely to happen unless he fought Yoda or Mace, but even against Mace it's more or less proven that Grievous can close the gap and engage before even Mace can use a lethal Force ability and with Grievous never giving him an opening, he couldn't possibly use the Force against him. I mean, you see multiple times Jedi try to use the force in the micro series against Grievous and he almost always dodges it and it took a Council Master to time it right just in order to slow him down, not even hurt him. If Shak Ti and two other Jedi couldn't kill or ragdoll Grievous with the Force while he was running down a hallway, what makes you think it's so easy for any high level Jedi to completely destroy him with ease?
@Jensaari1 On your point of Jace Malcolm leading that charge against the Sith Forces at around 1:03:00, From what I'm aware there were only small republic Guerilla teams on Alderaan at that point, and they were trying to stall the Sith to buy time for reinforcements to arrive. This is why he leads his squad head on into the enemy: A shock-and-awe assault that will allow them to devastate the enemy's ranks and their morale with their limited numbers.
Reti4 - A brief return to the "style" I had for more than a decade, yes. This was recorded 6+ months ago so the change to my current appearance had yet to have been made.
Reti4 - I love both in different ways. The Microseries is definitely less flawed, but it's also many, *many* times shorter, so you can't give it too much credit for that.
Fanalysis Don't get me wrong I like Tcw as well. But I enjoyed clone wars more then TCW. But there is just some things that Tcw did that infuriated me; Example Grievous in this they made Grievous look like a little bitch seriously he can't take down YOUNGLINGS but in the microverse he is this Cyborg that u should fear look at the padawan he stomped he was like "W-ww-we can't face him. Also in my opinion bringing Maul back in TCW was really frigging stupid he got chopped that should be the end look at Snoke. But for its flaws that doesn't mean it was all bad look at the Mortis arc with the Ones that was amazing, also liking what they did with Bariss Offee becoming a rogue Jedi bombing the temple, I will say in the eu she was just another but in TCW she was interesting character and had good points about the order
Reti4 - You're not wrong, but the Geonosis arena is an example of low-balling the Jedi no matter what standard you work from. Again, I point you to Mace, Kit and co's charge across the plain after Yoda dropped them off. I don't care what anyone says, their forces would have been slaughtered without a Jedi Master miracle or ten.
To be fair if we take that battle seriously as it is presented in the films, than there is not really a reason for why the jedi are relevant in the war at all.
+Fanalysis The Seps couldn't build droid armies faster than Mace could single-handedly destroy them. Mace destroys an army, breaks for tea, goes to another planet and destroys an army, netflix and chills, destroys another army. Seps see the writing on the wall and surrender a week into the war. :)
(I feel like I'm DB6195 with my comments) General Grevious is one of the greatest badasses in Star Wars. Basically the terminator with a lightsaber. What people forget about Greivous is not only does he psychologically undermine you (on Hypori, Jedi were exhausted), but he is also an RNG killing machine. You need to put everything you had into physical combat or else he will wreck you. Any smart force wielder can just grip you and rip him apart, but how many of those are there? Mainly the Council Masters and that's about it. And even then, not all of them can pull it off.
1:53:00 when you guys talk about Grevious's fighting style, something else cool is that every fight until the very final chapter he didn't use all 4 of his arms in lightsaber fights, and when he does the 2 Jedi he fights are imediately dominated
Yay! I was looking forward to this! The microseries was and is honestly one of my favorite star wars media things. I remember watching it when it aired and being so taken! Oh gosh lol there's like, so much i wanna say about it, but i forgot cause i watched through to the end and like every five minutes i'd think of another comic. So for now! I'll say one of my favorite things was the style, the atmoshphere. I thought it felt so, mythic? Idk. Like since it's connected to samurai jack, it was that feeling which i think works super well for star wars, especially with jedi and sith. I'd have loved to see an entire show in this style. Grevious was an amzing villain in this, like you said, nearly on par with vader in terms of what the threat felt like. And off topic but yes! The Old Republic trailers are what i think of too for like, the force standard. Cause for me, the movies are actually kinda meh in it's depiction of the force. More than anything i want to see the force expanded. Not to force unleasehd levels XD But expanded! Great video lol im out!
Reti4 - Apologies for the long wait, I hope you enjoyed our analysis. It's great to see people's enthusiasm for all the content we cover. Sharing in the enthusiasm for the different works is the best part about doing these videos for me.
TheNuisanceBird I think quantities in this series is just the animation style though. I mean look how many star fighters the republic cruisers launch! Way more than they supposedly hold.
20:04 That's really my main complaint about this series. A lot of the characters and even the Jedi are exaggerated with so many feats. The Jedi are superheroes like Superman where nothing can really hurt them except for another superpowered being like Durge or Grievous or Ventress. Like, did Mace Windu even need an army? Did Anakin really need the fleet? I like my heroes to be more down-to-earth and realistic but when that's the clones who are droid-like and at times also exaggerated (the tank attack) then it's hard for me to relate to them. This exaggeration isn't just on the characters though. It's given to the armies and the battles. You have numbers in the tens of thousands on land, sea, or space; there are massive weapons like the Quarren superweapon or the sinkhole machine (mini World Devastator). When people die, it's just perceived as "Oh, they're dead. Well, that's a minor inconvenience compared to all the numbers we have. Push on!" There isn't a sense of danger or urgency for these people when facing such odds. While at first I liked how the ARC troopers (and the clones for the most part) were silent, it indicated that they weren't much different than droids. That's why I liked TCW's portrayal of clones as being more expressive individuals while sharing the same features. As I grew older I understood that being commandoes on a top-secret mission, they couldn't really communicate using their comlinks in case the droids picked it up. They could only do so to update the status of their mission and that was only for extremely brief moments. So, I don't really have a problem with it anymore but the clones in the main battles should still have some voices. And the tactics in this series is...well, there's none at least concerning the Republic. In the Battle of Muunilinst, the clones are running up to meet the droids just like Geonosis but this time with no air cover and no tank support. It's in the later stages that they finally do use both as well as artillery, and they begin to fight smarter by taking cover and blowing up their "bunkers." I would call the Battle of Dantooine a Pyrrhic victory as it looks like just Mace Windu survived. They didn't have tanks or air support, which could've really helped them to take out the mini World Devastator. The Battle of Mon Cala I actually had little to no trouble with other than that the Republic looked to be incredibly unprepared for a water invasion and only used their numbers of clones. They didn't bring in any equipment or machines to help them through the water like the droids did. Really, it's telling when TCW shows better tactics in their battles (still terrible in many aspects, of course) than this and better use of their soldiers. They show that this is a galaxy spanning war so you're only ever going to send in large armies on heavily defended worlds. The numbers in the Battle of Muunilinst work because it is a planet of importance to the Separatists with foundries, space stations, and factories with a massive defense force. But in the other battles, did the Republic really need to send in 50k troops onto a single planet? That's like a tenth of their total fighting force in the war. The jousting was absolutely ridiculous to the point of unbelievable. I honestly can't believe that they took the term "Jedi Knight" literally by making Obi-Wan a knight in armor with a spear. And the spears can destroy whole AT-TEs and scratch the armor of artillery? It's ridiculous. I can't believe that James Luceno referenced that instance in _Labyrinth_ _of_ _Evil_ . I liked Kit Fisto so much that I got his toy. He's the only shirtless Jedi that I have in my collection. And the only Kit Fisto. But I'm with Reti4 when it comes to the Mon Calamari, and Jensaarai made some good points. While as I kid I didn't realize that they were advanced shipbuilders, but now given what I know I'm surprised that they weren't as teched up as the Quarren. This is also a fault in TCW now that I think about it. Durge was the ultimate badass. I got his toy where he is riding his speeder and carrying a lance. While his proportions are somewhat beefed up from his comic look, it fits with both the character and the art of the show. He is the literal big, unstoppable bad guy with an assortment of weapons. Obi-Wan has to struggle to take him out not once but twice. When it's revealed that he's actually some sort of monster made of muscles it just amps up his danger-factor as he can rapidly heal himself and extend his body. I agree on your comments with Anakin. He's a warrior who leads, and not a leader who can fight. He definitely loves to "get high on his own success" and definitely loves to get praise from Palpatine. Obi-Wan's early point of Anakin not being ready for the responsibility of leading the fighter squadron is clearly indicated when Anakin chases Ventress and is drawn out from the battlefield. However, I do find his duel with Ventress to be too lengthy for Padawan level or almost Knight-level Jedi and Dark Jedi. If it had been just the duel at the temple, I would be okay with that. As it stands, there should be indications of fatigue for these characters after jumping, leaping, pushing, fighting, and running even with the Force. I understand that Anakin is supposed to be a Jedi prodigy but he's not yet at his prime. Of course, there's a lot invested in these characters and it's really great to see them being matched against each other. General Grievous definitely gets the most exaggeration (he's 16 feet tall!) and for good reason. Lucas wasn't done with ROTS and I think at the time of writing that episode, he wasn't done finalizing his character. This is how we got the superb fighter and relentless, calculating general that we got in the series and the rest of the Clone Wars multimedia project which contrasts sharply with the mustache-twirling, cowardly villain that we see in the film and TCW. Genndy wasn't told how Grievous was going to be, which gave him leeway to make him awesome. He also did it in a way that has some of the same qualities. In the finale, Grievous didn't attack the Jedi when they were ready and prepared. He outmaneuvered them, destroyed their army, and relentlessly pressed the attack until they were at the point of exhaustion and stuck closed together. You see this with their tattered robes, resting posture, sweat dripping down their skin, and K'kruk breathing hard. They are also scared to where they can't effectively use the Force. The only people able to do this are the masters, but even they can only do so much before Grievous targets them. These Jedi aren't bringing their A-game into this fight which was how he was able to take them down. Other commentators have pointed out how he managed to easily win in each scenario as all they are bringing in is Ataru, which they can't use now. The Padawan was easy pickings as he was afraid of Grievous, ran out into the open, and was jumped on by the droid general. K'kruk was next and he wasn't that skilled of a fighter, so Grievous overstretched him, wounded his flank, and then went in for the killing blow (yes, I realize he survived by going into a Jedi hybernation technique). He blocked Shaak Ti's telekinetic attack before swinging around to grab the next Jedi Knight by his face when he had his sword up, stomped him into the ground, and then launched both him and Aayla into the back wall. So, this is another case of him outmaneuvering his opponents through superior agility and speed when they are tired and can't use Ataru to the greatest effect. This left him only the Masters, which he then separated by kicking Mundi back, and then went in on raining hard blows on Shaak Ti. I do agree that they set him up brilliantly with just his voice and the sound of his approach.
Reti4 my dude, you have not used my favorite character in a vs. video which makes me sad. So I'll will need to recommend it. Zayne Carrick vs. Kanan Jarrus, the Battle of the Not Exceptional.
Do you consider it a plot hole that K'kruhk wasn't saved, given that the other Jedi likely knew about his abilities in force-hibernation? I mean, this is probably not the fault of the writers of the microseries, as they probably intended him to die, but instead a plot hole created by those writers who resurrected him.
+cloudftw113 idk about that. Alucard (non abridged at least) is vulnerable to soul and mind fuckery which force sensitives have in spades. Also, in speed, Alucard is massively hypersonic, Jax Pavan (a jedi knight) has mid relativistic reactions. Also, TFS Alucard vs Admiral Ackbar or other memetic characters would be hilarious.
Reti4 -- I'm to blame for that one, I got Jen hooked on Hellsing Abridged a few years ago and he's been throwing references at me ever since. Such a great abridged.
+Fanalysis Thank you so much Reti4 for teaching Jen the wonders of Hellsing Abridged. Though speaking of TFS, we need a Mr.Popo vs any memetic Star Wars character now. I'm going with Liam the Padawan or Darth Jar Jar. But then again...pecking order ftw.
Reti4 - No full list per se, though that's definitely something we should put out there for people at some point... I cannot recommend the following enough though: *Dark Rendezvous* - Masterpiece of an exploration of Yoda and the best portrayal of him in anything as far as I'm concerned. Also stars Tallisibeth Enwandung-Esterhazy aka Scout, one of my favourite Jedi of all time. *Thrawn Trilogy* - The bedrock on which the entire EU is built, particularly the post-RotJ material. Slightly dated in some ways but still the greatest single example of recapturing the magic of the Original Trilogy you'll find if you ask me. I felt like I was watching a sequel trilogy to the originals as I was reading those books.
The Knight Of Darkness I’d say that Fisto is decisively ahead of Darach. I’d say that Qui-Gon’s superior technical skill is the deciding factor in this duel.
I disagree with the statement that we never got to see the separatists as a genuine threat and having victories in TCW. A massive part of season 1 is that the war is actually in the separatists favour a lot of the time. Many battles lost and also many montages detailing it.
Reti4 - "Never" was definitely too strong a word. But Jen is right in saying that the show massively undercut its villains and the Separatists as a whole *many* times. I know I barely bought the idea of the threat they posed half the time, and I enjoy the series.
Finally, we get some REAL Star Wars stuff -- unlike that pathetic disgrace of a Star Wars movie that came out last week (and pretty much every Star Wars movie put out by Di$ney).
We recorded this half a year ago now, so this one's a littler rougher around the edges than our more recent material. It's nice to finally be able to let you all see it though. Part 2, recorded much more recently, will be up next week. I hope you enjoy our thoughts on the series.
Fanalysis i remember during one of your Plagueis review videos, one of you mentioned that you'd be uploading forcecast episodes much more frequently. I've laughed ever since, but glad to see it actually happening.
I love this series the Microseries, and I am hoping to see you return to vs series!
Crazyscotsman the VS series isn't done or gone. Something can't return if it's not gone
Yeeeah... Failure to organise properly was the cause of failure on that one, apologies for that. Rest assured we're here to stay this time.
Fanalysis completely understandable
To this day, the fight between Anakin and Ventress is one of the best duels in the entire franchise and never fails to give me chills.
Reti4 - I'm right with you on that one. A true epic. And I don't even like the characters involved really. Says a lot for the execution.
Fanalysis How can one not like Asajj Ventress?
Reti4 - I love her at times, but most of the time she's portrayed as a snarling berserker assassin. I prefer the Ventress that's worked through most of her issues and had some of the ol' Kenobi wit rub off on her nearing the end of the Clone Wars.
I remember one of the most infuriating things about a certain reaction video to this series:
"Can they talk? Why don't they talk? How can I like them if they don't talk? I don't understand? What are they doing? They seem to have character."
To which my reaction was: "Gee. It's almost like they're meant to be efficient faceless soldiers"
The ACR troopers? That's a silly complaint if that's what you're referring to.
"I'm covered in somebody's gore. what's for lunch?"
-Jensaarai 2017
omg im laughing so hard rn
Reti4 - Kenobi nails that dry wit.
@@Reti4 it's scenes like that which make me ask what ideas were rejected for being too over the top.
I wonder if Qui-Gon would have volunteered for Vos' assignment. Dooku would accept him in a heartbeat.
Oh man, AWESOME idea
If Jinn hadn't died, Dooku wouldn't have left the order in the first place.
Daniel Huffman oh right
Reti4 - Almost certainly. It'd be very interesting to see how that might have played out.
I love the microseires. This should have been the true episode 2 (AOTC is episode 1, ROTS is the same). It best represents the character arc of Anakin Skywalker. AOTC represents the origin of the Jedi Anakin Skywalker as a cocky and annoying Padwan, the Microseries represents his knighthood and his rise as a war hero, and ROTS represents his fall to the darkside.
Yeah. The prequels should've started with Anakin as a Jedi.
You're wrong. To understand Anakin you need episode 1. He isn't Luke his journey begins earlier
Honestly Volume 1 is Episode I. Volume 2 is Episode II and ROTS is Episode III.
I got you Jensaari. The answer is that Yoda was NTRing Padme so they were on a lovers rendezvous.
Reti4 - There are so many things wrong with that image...
hahaha well if you look at the episode that Padme and Yoda reunite she totally is crushing on him. She's overly happy to see him. And in Episode II see her brought warm feelings to his heart.
I LOVE Anakin's custom starfighter in this. Easily my favorite Starship design ever
Windu jumps like 300 ft in the air onto the seismic tank and then jumps like 2 miles up onto an overlooking hill
Reti4 - As one does.
The thing with Anakin that you guys are talking about shows the problems with how he was raised and part of an incomplete education that he receives. Grow up till he is 10 as a slave and then when he joins the Jedi order they have no clue how to deal with the turmoil that he has gone through. If he came into being during a different Jedi order he could have developed quite differently. Basically the Jedi needed to work with professional psychologists and have group sessions to both learn together and help teach. An emotionally healthy Anakin would have taken him from the ultimate potential to the unquestioned G.O.A.T. in the universe.
this micro series is what laid the foundation and planted the SEEDS for me into becoming a Star Wars fan.......... looking back at it I just think to myself how well done it was, and still is :D
Reti4 - The Legends material being callously discarded aside, it's a pretty timeless show. I know I keep returning to it every now and then.
Definitely rewatching this series. Would love to see more of this kind of Star Wars animation.
Reti4 - It's always a treat to re-watch. I hope you enjoy(ed) our analysis on it!
I don't think Mace or Grievous are really presented as overpowered in this series, but I don't feel like going into full analysis as to why, but I'll do a quick rundown.
Mace using force enhanced martial arts to rek super battle droids and why they don't really shoot at him: Powerful Force users can augment themselves to move at supersonic speeds, I doubt B2's can actually get a good shot on him, especially not without risking shooting each other.
His crazy force leaps: In a universe where Luke can patch a black hole, reborn Sidious can create a Force storm that can affect a planet and a multi mile long super ship, Nihulus can drain a whole planet of Force energy/life, Yoda can levitate 5 multi ton statues at an age passed 800 (I believe he could lift all 6 before his 700's). Hush, child, Jedi can lift and hurl stuff that weighs many tons, I'm sure someone on Mace's level can throw himself a mile or two.
Grievous fighting 6 Jedi: Grievous is probably the best lightsaber duelist of his time and this is before his severe organ crush by Mace. The Jedi he was fighting at the time were tired and not super impressive in the first place (besides Shak-Ti and Ki to a lesser extent, who are pretty powerful). Grievous had fought Mace to a stalmate, even closely mimicking his Vapaad in literal seconds and causing Mace to become concerned, implying Mace feared that if he continued fighting Grievous, he would perfectly copy Vapaad and not only possibly kill him, but go on to kill others with Vapaad.
I can go into depth on just how dangerous and powerful Grievous is anytime, if there's any doubts.
Grievous and Windu aren't overpowered. They're antagonists in ROTS after all. A shame neither of them fought Anakin.
They perfectly summed up why TCW was so disappointing in terms of how they use the force
Anakin vs Ventress is perhaps my favorite fight in Star Wars, it is a beautiful combination of lightsaber dueling, use of the force and tactics/environment, with some real character progression and great use of the score. I also like how the miniseries made Shaak Ti really cute.
Reti4 - Anakin Vs Ventress is definitely one of the epic duels of the setting, for sure. Not sure about cute, but Shaak Ti certainly makes my top 10 favourite SW characters list. She is awesome incarnate.
Fanalysis who else is on your top 10 Star Wars characters list?
Reti4 - Off the top of my head and in no particular order, these are top favourites of mine:
Shaak Ti, Luke Skywalker, Plo Koon, Tallisibeth Enwandung-Esterhazy, Obi-wan Kenobi, Jaina Solo, Vima Sunrider, Siri Tachi, Ahsoka Tano, Mon Mothma, Yoda.
There are definitely more, but it's difficult to remember everyone in the moment.
Fanalysis I don’t mind Scout, but my favourite character from Dark Rendezvous is definitely Jai Maruk.
Jensaaeai said it best for me. With the Microseries and TCW, here was always my thoughts about Greivous (before the microseries was moved to Legends). Greivous was NEVER meant to be taken seriously... this is gonna take some explaining. Everyone who ever met Greivous, died. He was meant to take his opponents by surprise, and he used that shock to his advantage killing his opponents. He was purely a weapon of intimidation. Then the Battle of Hypori happened. And, for the first time, as far as I know, Jedi survived encountering him. And those survivors relayed Greivous' existence to the other Jedi. And that was the first domino that set off this effect. Now that people know about him, he's lost his element of surprise. And that always explained Greivous' transformation from cold, calculating killer to sniveling coward in TCW. Because no one is surprised anymore, he doesn't have that intimidation, which means he's lost everything that made him an effective weapon.
(Also poor/ lazy writing XD. Every situation Greivous was placed in, it felt like the writers forgot until the very end, "oh wait! He has to survive to make it to Revenge of the Sith, get him out of there.")
You know, Grievous' performance on Hypori is way overblown. Yeah it looks good but when you really look at it.
You have Shaak Ti: Ataru which she is too exhausted to use and Makashi with Grievous hitting like a truck)
K'Kruhk: Not the greatest duelist, even if he was likely the least exhausted.
Aalya: Not really top tier either. Also uses Ataru so exhaustion cripples her.
Ki-Adi: Ataru, which he can't use due to exhaustion. Makashi, Grievous once again hits like a truck. Soresu, which he actually *does* hold out for a fair bit with.
Then you have the fodder. No explanation needed.
In the grand scheme of things it's not *that* good.
Ataru probably wasn't used during the initial battle. K'Kruhk is a pretty good duelist. Just not near Grievous.
Yeah, the really impressive part is how he is able to fend them off simultaneously or in quick succession and how quickly he overpowered them once forced into a 1vs1. Makashi is still very dangerous and I doubt they were totally unable to use Ataru. Coupled with his performance on Coruscant I think his performance is only slightly overrated.
Exactly grievous nearly beating ROTS Obi Wan is way more impressive
But he wasn't close to beating kenobi tho
You guys should do a video dedicated to The Old Republic Trailers, they really are awesome :D
Reti4 - We almost certainly will, just a question of when really. Watch this space. (We're sticking around this time, honest.)
I think the part where they're talking about Grievous running away, I mean...he was up against Anakin and Obi-Wan at the beginning, taking out his ship by destroying the front glass then launching all escape pods is honestly the absolute smartest and most impressive thing he could've done.
In TCW he has no excuse to run away and be a coward.
I think Reti4 is giving his Jedi bias too much credit when concerning Grievous, Grievous moves faster, learns faster and thinks faster than any organic being, no matter how powerful a Jedi is, it's not a simple "Any high master can use the Force, done" He can move faster than a normal being can see, the only reason Jedi can keep up with him in combat is because of their precognition, using a Force ability anywhere near strong enough to hurt him, let alone kill or immobilize him takes too much time, skill, accuracy and just outright power than nearly any Jedi can muster in time to use it against him.
If you notice, Mace was able to crush him because Grievous wasn't expecting the Force, he was expecting Mace to actually come at him with his lightsaber, this is a mistake that he made that he immediately learned from.
The prerequisites and requirements needed by a Jedi to kill Grievous with a "simple" application of the force are extremely high and unlikely to happen unless he fought Yoda or Mace, but even against Mace it's more or less proven that Grievous can close the gap and engage before even Mace can use a lethal Force ability and with Grievous never giving him an opening, he couldn't possibly use the Force against him.
I mean, you see multiple times Jedi try to use the force in the micro series against Grievous and he almost always dodges it and it took a Council Master to time it right just in order to slow him down, not even hurt him.
If Shak Ti and two other Jedi couldn't kill or ragdoll Grievous with the Force while he was running down a hallway, what makes you think it's so easy for any high level Jedi to completely destroy him with ease?
It’s nice to see the OG’s back!! Need some more of this.
Reti4 - Glad to *be* back! And here to stay this time. Part 2 will be up next week and much more to come after that. Watch this space.
@Jensaari1 On your point of Jace Malcolm leading that charge against the Sith Forces at around 1:03:00, From what I'm aware there were only small republic Guerilla teams on Alderaan at that point, and they were trying to stall the Sith to buy time for reinforcements to arrive. This is why he leads his squad head on into the enemy: A shock-and-awe assault that will allow them to devastate the enemy's ranks and their morale with their limited numbers.
Reti's old hair!!
Reti4 - A brief return to the "style" I had for more than a decade, yes. This was recorded 6+ months ago so the change to my current appearance had yet to have been made.
Finally, we get to hear your opinions on this great series. I love this series.
Reti4 - I hope you enjoy our analysis!
Microseries>TCW
Reti4 - I love both in different ways. The Microseries is definitely less flawed, but it's also many, *many* times shorter, so you can't give it too much credit for that.
Fanalysis Don't get me wrong I like Tcw as well. But I enjoyed clone wars more then TCW. But there is just some things that Tcw did that infuriated me; Example Grievous in this they made Grievous look like a little bitch seriously he can't take down YOUNGLINGS but in the microverse he is this Cyborg that u should fear look at the padawan he stomped he was like "W-ww-we can't face him. Also in my opinion bringing Maul back in TCW was really frigging stupid he got chopped that should be the end look at Snoke. But for its flaws that doesn't mean it was all bad look at the Mortis arc with the Ones that was amazing, also liking what they did with Bariss Offee becoming a rogue Jedi bombing the temple, I will say in the eu she was just another but in TCW she was interesting character and had good points about the order
Fanalysis Also huge fan of u, GreyJedi, and Jensaarai. U guys are very entertaining
Like I've always said, if Mace could do what micro-series shows, then he could've won the Geonosis arena battle all by himself in two minutes flat. :)
Or less.
Reti4 - You're not wrong, but the Geonosis arena is an example of low-balling the Jedi no matter what standard you work from. Again, I point you to Mace, Kit and co's charge across the plain after Yoda dropped them off. I don't care what anyone says, their forces would have been slaughtered without a Jedi Master miracle or ten.
To be fair if we take that battle seriously as it is presented in the films, than there is not really a reason for why the jedi are relevant in the war at all.
Reti4 - Very true. That's a much simpler defense one can use.
+Fanalysis The Seps couldn't build droid armies faster than Mace could single-handedly destroy them. Mace destroys an army, breaks for tea, goes to another planet and destroys an army, netflix and chills, destroys another army. Seps see the writing on the wall and surrender a week into the war. :)
I’ve been waiting for this one lads.
Reti4 - Sorry to keep you waiting. We're back for good this time. I hope you enjoy(ed) our analysis. Part 2 will be up next week.
Fanalysis It was great man, can’t wait for part 2
I call anakin manakin when hes in a rage because he becomes a manic savage just pounding on his oponents
(I feel like I'm DB6195 with my comments) General Grevious is one of the greatest badasses in Star Wars. Basically the terminator with a lightsaber. What people forget about Greivous is not only does he psychologically undermine you (on Hypori, Jedi were exhausted), but he is also an RNG killing machine. You need to put everything you had into physical combat or else he will wreck you. Any smart force wielder can just grip you and rip him apart, but how many of those are there? Mainly the Council Masters and that's about it. And even then, not all of them can pull it off.
1:53:00 when you guys talk about Grevious's fighting style, something else cool is that every fight until the very final chapter he didn't use all 4 of his arms in lightsaber fights, and when he does the 2 Jedi he fights are imediately dominated
Nice to see you all again
Reti4 - Thanks! It's great to be back. Here to stay this time too.
I have these on dvd. I remember watching the first 10 episodes. Not knowing about episodes 10-20 and then watched 21-25.
I got the alucard reference, Connor!
Yay! I was looking forward to this! The microseries was and is honestly one of my favorite star wars media things. I remember watching it when it aired and being so taken! Oh gosh lol there's like, so much i wanna say about it, but i forgot cause i watched through to the end and like every five minutes i'd think of another comic. So for now! I'll say one of my favorite things was the style, the atmoshphere. I thought it felt so, mythic? Idk. Like since it's connected to samurai jack, it was that feeling which i think works super well for star wars, especially with jedi and sith. I'd have loved to see an entire show in this style.
Grevious was an amzing villain in this, like you said, nearly on par with vader in terms of what the threat felt like. And off topic but yes! The Old Republic trailers are what i think of too for like, the force standard. Cause for me, the movies are actually kinda meh in it's depiction of the force. More than anything i want to see the force expanded. Not to force unleasehd levels XD But expanded! Great video lol im out!
Reti4 - Apologies for the long wait, I hope you enjoyed our analysis. It's great to see people's enthusiasm for all the content we cover. Sharing in the enthusiasm for the different works is the best part about doing these videos for me.
I didn't know that the Council Forcecast changed gears like this.
Honestly the Force wave Windu threw out in the Ryloth episode is plenty comparable to what he did on Dantooine.
There weren't as many droids though.
TheNuisanceBird I think quantities in this series is just the animation style though. I mean look how many star fighters the republic cruisers launch! Way more than they supposedly hold.
Macattack 1 Well, a Venator typically holds 420 starfighters of varying types so it's not that out of place.
20:04 That's really my main complaint about this series. A lot of the characters and even the Jedi are exaggerated with so many feats. The Jedi are superheroes like Superman where nothing can really hurt them except for another superpowered being like Durge or Grievous or Ventress. Like, did Mace Windu even need an army? Did Anakin really need the fleet? I like my heroes to be more down-to-earth and realistic but when that's the clones who are droid-like and at times also exaggerated (the tank attack) then it's hard for me to relate to them. This exaggeration isn't just on the characters though. It's given to the armies and the battles. You have numbers in the tens of thousands on land, sea, or space; there are massive weapons like the Quarren superweapon or the sinkhole machine (mini World Devastator). When people die, it's just perceived as "Oh, they're dead. Well, that's a minor inconvenience compared to all the numbers we have. Push on!" There isn't a sense of danger or urgency for these people when facing such odds.
While at first I liked how the ARC troopers (and the clones for the most part) were silent, it indicated that they weren't much different than droids. That's why I liked TCW's portrayal of clones as being more expressive individuals while sharing the same features. As I grew older I understood that being commandoes on a top-secret mission, they couldn't really communicate using their comlinks in case the droids picked it up. They could only do so to update the status of their mission and that was only for extremely brief moments. So, I don't really have a problem with it anymore but the clones in the main battles should still have some voices. And the tactics in this series is...well, there's none at least concerning the Republic. In the Battle of Muunilinst, the clones are running up to meet the droids just like Geonosis but this time with no air cover and no tank support. It's in the later stages that they finally do use both as well as artillery, and they begin to fight smarter by taking cover and blowing up their "bunkers." I would call the Battle of Dantooine a Pyrrhic victory as it looks like just Mace Windu survived. They didn't have tanks or air support, which could've really helped them to take out the mini World Devastator. The Battle of Mon Cala I actually had little to no trouble with other than that the Republic looked to be incredibly unprepared for a water invasion and only used their numbers of clones. They didn't bring in any equipment or machines to help them through the water like the droids did. Really, it's telling when TCW shows better tactics in their battles (still terrible in many aspects, of course) than this and better use of their soldiers. They show that this is a galaxy spanning war so you're only ever going to send in large armies on heavily defended worlds. The numbers in the Battle of Muunilinst work because it is a planet of importance to the Separatists with foundries, space stations, and factories with a massive defense force. But in the other battles, did the Republic really need to send in 50k troops onto a single planet? That's like a tenth of their total fighting force in the war.
The jousting was absolutely ridiculous to the point of unbelievable. I honestly can't believe that they took the term "Jedi Knight" literally by making Obi-Wan a knight in armor with a spear. And the spears can destroy whole AT-TEs and scratch the armor of artillery? It's ridiculous. I can't believe that James Luceno referenced that instance in _Labyrinth_ _of_ _Evil_ .
I liked Kit Fisto so much that I got his toy. He's the only shirtless Jedi that I have in my collection. And the only Kit Fisto. But I'm with Reti4 when it comes to the Mon Calamari, and Jensaarai made some good points. While as I kid I didn't realize that they were advanced shipbuilders, but now given what I know I'm surprised that they weren't as teched up as the Quarren. This is also a fault in TCW now that I think about it.
Durge was the ultimate badass. I got his toy where he is riding his speeder and carrying a lance. While his proportions are somewhat beefed up from his comic look, it fits with both the character and the art of the show. He is the literal big, unstoppable bad guy with an assortment of weapons. Obi-Wan has to struggle to take him out not once but twice. When it's revealed that he's actually some sort of monster made of muscles it just amps up his danger-factor as he can rapidly heal himself and extend his body.
I agree on your comments with Anakin. He's a warrior who leads, and not a leader who can fight. He definitely loves to "get high on his own success" and definitely loves to get praise from Palpatine. Obi-Wan's early point of Anakin not being ready for the responsibility of leading the fighter squadron is clearly indicated when Anakin chases Ventress and is drawn out from the battlefield. However, I do find his duel with Ventress to be too lengthy for Padawan level or almost Knight-level Jedi and Dark Jedi. If it had been just the duel at the temple, I would be okay with that. As it stands, there should be indications of fatigue for these characters after jumping, leaping, pushing, fighting, and running even with the Force. I understand that Anakin is supposed to be a Jedi prodigy but he's not yet at his prime. Of course, there's a lot invested in these characters and it's really great to see them being matched against each other.
General Grievous definitely gets the most exaggeration (he's 16 feet tall!) and for good reason. Lucas wasn't done with ROTS and I think at the time of writing that episode, he wasn't done finalizing his character. This is how we got the superb fighter and relentless, calculating general that we got in the series and the rest of the Clone Wars multimedia project which contrasts sharply with the mustache-twirling, cowardly villain that we see in the film and TCW. Genndy wasn't told how Grievous was going to be, which gave him leeway to make him awesome. He also did it in a way that has some of the same qualities. In the finale, Grievous didn't attack the Jedi when they were ready and prepared. He outmaneuvered them, destroyed their army, and relentlessly pressed the attack until they were at the point of exhaustion and stuck closed together. You see this with their tattered robes, resting posture, sweat dripping down their skin, and K'kruk breathing hard. They are also scared to where they can't effectively use the Force. The only people able to do this are the masters, but even they can only do so much before Grievous targets them. These Jedi aren't bringing their A-game into this fight which was how he was able to take them down. Other commentators have pointed out how he managed to easily win in each scenario as all they are bringing in is Ataru, which they can't use now. The Padawan was easy pickings as he was afraid of Grievous, ran out into the open, and was jumped on by the droid general. K'kruk was next and he wasn't that skilled of a fighter, so Grievous overstretched him, wounded his flank, and then went in for the killing blow (yes, I realize he survived by going into a Jedi hybernation technique). He blocked Shaak Ti's telekinetic attack before swinging around to grab the next Jedi Knight by his face when he had his sword up, stomped him into the ground, and then launched both him and Aayla into the back wall. So, this is another case of him outmaneuvering his opponents through superior agility and speed when they are tired and can't use Ataru to the greatest effect. This left him only the Masters, which he then separated by kicking Mundi back, and then went in on raining hard blows on Shaak Ti. I do agree that they set him up brilliantly with just his voice and the sound of his approach.
I do think the Mace Windu fighting off the entire droid army was completely bullshit
In the Novel version of the Kit vs Grievous fight Kit gets his ass royally kicked by a still damaged to the point of smoking Grievous.
Damn it’s been awhile
Reti4 - It has! Apologies for that. We're here to stay this time though, so I hope you enjoy(ed) our analysis. Part 2 will be up next week.
Shaak Ti didn't land her force push by merit of being better so much as having the benefit of going third and seeing how Grievous would dodge.
Reti4 my dude, you have not used my favorite character in a vs. video which makes me sad. So I'll will need to recommend it. Zayne Carrick vs. Kanan Jarrus, the Battle of the Not Exceptional.
FYI. Carrick is my favorite.
Reti4 - Apologies Daniel, I'm a huge fan of Zayne myself but I haven't got any plans to make a VS video for him at the moment I'm afraid.
Fanalysis Sure, just he is so under appreciated as a character. I haven't seen him used in years.
Out of curiosity Callan, whats all that writing on your white board??
The Knight Of Darkness probably math equations /s
Do you consider it a plot hole that K'kruhk wasn't saved, given that the other Jedi likely knew about his abilities in force-hibernation?
I mean, this is probably not the fault of the writers of the microseries, as they probably intended him to die, but instead a plot hole created by those writers who resurrected him.
The ARC troopers that came to rescue them didn't know that.
Could the Council do another reaction/review of fan films, specifically the Legacy of the Force fan film, like you did for Contract of Evil?
13:00
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58:00
1:01:00
1:26:00
I admit a lot of the animations would look ridiculous in live action.
Reti4 - For sure. Some things just can't be done outside of animation.
Kaleesh Synth To be fair, that’s a common trait amongst most action oriented animated productions.
+banethesithari plz tell me a source where it was stated that grievous was even remotely close to beating kenobi. Btw there isn't one
They need to bring this back. Gendy got another season of Samurai Jack if only we got amazing new Star Wars we could get more of this type of stuff.
Clone Wars 2008 was and the people working on it moved onto Rebels. The people who worked on this would be available. I don't see a problem.
Oh well people are gonna have to except it's been canceled for years now.
accept**
Kaox Krul vs Darth Sion. The Mad Marauders. Jensaarai1, Reti4, GreyJedi91 would either of you consider doing this video?
Reti4 - I'm definitely not I'm afraid, but I can't speak for Jensaarai or Greyjedi. They're more interested in both characters than I am.
Fanalysis thanks for saying so, and please if you can tell Jensaarai1 and GreyJedi91, if you could do that I’d really appreciate it
Jensarrai1, omg a Hellsing Abridged reference! Can we use that Allucard in a vs series?
Rob George That’s like using Grandmaster Luke. It would be essential an automatic win for him.
+cloudftw113 idk about that. Alucard (non abridged at least) is vulnerable to soul and mind fuckery which force sensitives have in spades. Also, in speed, Alucard is massively hypersonic, Jax Pavan (a jedi knight) has mid relativistic reactions. Also, TFS Alucard vs Admiral Ackbar or other memetic characters would be hilarious.
Reti4 -- I'm to blame for that one, I got Jen hooked on Hellsing Abridged a few years ago and he's been throwing references at me ever since. Such a great abridged.
Fanalysis Hellsong Abridged is glorious.
+Fanalysis Thank you so much Reti4 for teaching Jen the wonders of Hellsing Abridged. Though speaking of TFS, we need a Mr.Popo vs any memetic Star Wars character now. I'm going with Liam the Padawan or Darth Jar Jar. But then again...pecking order ftw.
When you said your favorite incarnation of Dooku was from Dark Deciple, did you mean from the Cannon novel?
Reti4 - Yeah, I meant Dark Rendezvous. I caught this when I was listening to the video on my way to work and had to slam my head against a wall.
Fanalysis I was like: "Heresy Detected!"
Reti4 - Emperor Protect.
My Armor is Contempt,
My Shield is Disgust,
My Sword is Hatred,
In the Emperor's Name, Let None Survive
Dark Rendezvous Dooku is also my favorite version of the character. That scene when he's telekinetically torturing Ventress is just chilling
Please do the other one even though I know most of you aren't fans
Is there any chance any of you have a reading list of reccomended EU content?
Reti4 - No full list per se, though that's definitely something we should put out there for people at some point...
I cannot recommend the following enough though:
*Dark Rendezvous* - Masterpiece of an exploration of Yoda and the best portrayal of him in anything as far as I'm concerned. Also stars Tallisibeth Enwandung-Esterhazy aka Scout, one of my favourite Jedi of all time.
*Thrawn Trilogy* - The bedrock on which the entire EU is built, particularly the post-RotJ material. Slightly dated in some ways but still the greatest single example of recapturing the magic of the Original Trilogy you'll find if you ask me. I felt like I was watching a sequel trilogy to the originals as I was reading those books.
Fanalysis Thank you! Ill definetly check those out.
34butterfingers the bane trilogy was where I started, and I think it’s a fantastic introduction the so many aspects of the EU.
I disagree with Dooku falling without Quinton’s death.
The question is:
Shaak Ti Vs. Grievous, who would win?
Grievous ftw but Shak gives him one hell of a fight.
Ti stomps
The Knight Of Darkness I highly, highly doubt it.
Ki Adi Sandwich Jokes. Who do u think would win in a fight between Kit Fisto and Kao Cen Darach?? Also Qui Gon vs K Kruhk??
The Knight Of Darkness
I’d say that Fisto is decisively ahead of Darach.
I’d say that Qui-Gon’s superior technical skill is the deciding factor in this duel.
did it just seem that lucasfilm took better care at promoting their material than Disney is?
I disagree with the statement that we never got to see the separatists as a genuine threat and having victories in TCW. A massive part of season 1 is that the war is actually in the separatists favour a lot of the time. Many battles lost and also many montages detailing it.
Reti4 - "Never" was definitely too strong a word. But Jen is right in saying that the show massively undercut its villains and the Separatists as a whole *many* times. I know I barely bought the idea of the threat they posed half the time, and I enjoy the series.
Fanalysis I can see that yeah, especially with Grievous.
Finally, we get some REAL Star Wars stuff -- unlike that pathetic disgrace of a Star Wars movie that came out last week (and pretty much every Star Wars movie put out by Di$ney).
The Space Born just to clarify, disney doesn't care, Kathleen Kennedy is the one to blame
The 2D Clone War Grievous is more amazing than Rey will ever be.
Reti4 - I hope you enjoyed our analysis.
I'm sorry but the micro series is good but TCW is superior