I'm happy to finally see someone who recognizes all of the wonderful moments between these two besides just the kiss. Their feelings for each other were so clear I'm amazed some people still managed to be surprised when the kiss did happen. It's interesting that you bring up that whole "infertility" thing. I never really thought about it that way. Maybe because I never considered her immunity to be genetic... After all, this is a parasite we're talking about, so I would think this is a consequence of a fault with the parasitic organism itself rather than with Ellie's biology. This is why I was always sceptical about the fireflies developing a cure or a vaccine too. Not everyone thinks about Ellie's "infertility" as permanent as you btw. I saw a guy suggest it was selfish of Ellie to "choose" to be a lesbian during the apocalypse. "She should put her personal feelings aside and have sex with men in order to reproduce." Needless to say I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw that comment... Though it should be said: lesbians can still choose to reproduce and it doesn't even have to include sex with a man (as the cretin above seemed to be suggesting). A simple syringe with some donated sperm will do the trick just as nicely. You'd need a willing donor of course but hey... it would be selfish of a man to refuse donating his sperm during an apocalypse. ;) (just to be perfectly clear, I'm only saying this to poke fun at the guy with the puke inducing comment)
If they had the facilities she could donate a whole ton of eggs. Regardless of sexuality or willingness, it is simply not feasible for one woman to have enough children to fix the whole human race, but with like two hundred couples, each one using a donated egg and different sperm, maybe.
@@OniKensei "it is simply not feasible for one woman to fix the human race" Bruh have you ever read this thing called, The Bible? You know most of the modern world is descended from Genghis Khan alone right? One person can do plenty of repopulating, male or female.
@@Antiformed I'm just saying it would take a lot longer with one woman. You get about one baby every nine months. And Eve didn't have competition. Everybody else is having kids, so it would be like vaccinating one kid out of a million. It wouldn't fix anything. You got to have high numbers on your side with genetics.
@@Antiformed Oh yeah of course! Awesome! Ellie’ll just whore herself into a perpetual baby factory and supposing it’s even possible to pass on genetically, the whole human race should be immune in about a thousand years. Yeah, fucking genius solution…
My friend, you are very much under-appreciated. I hope people will discover this channel in greater numbers soon, because you are very talented and deserve recognition for your work. Keep it up, cuz we who are here love ya. k..? ok...
Holy moly thank you so much! I love you guys too! You're the second person to call me talented-I'll let my mom know you agree with her! :D Believe me man, I have no intention of stopping. I love doing this stuff and seeing all of your guys' awesome comments makes me want to go 10x faster. Seriously, thank you for your support!
***** You got it! :D I was working on my next video when I saw a notification for this comment pop up. It should be ready in the next few weeks. I'm happy you stumbled upon this series too! I really appreciate the support! :D Thank you!
I absolutely love your videos...I've seen a few tonight, and this one struck me hard. I've played everything The Last of Us and Left Behind have to offer, but the things I've seen in both just...didn't sink in until now. The real beauty and method behind these experiences, and what they actually mean. All I can really say is thank you.
Thank you for seeing the beauty and importance of this DLC. So many people got wrapped up and outraged at Ellie's sexuality as if Naughty Dog threw it in there just because. As if Naughty Dog ever make decisions without proper meaning! You're totally right about there being signs of their relationship well before the kiss too. The signs were subtle, but they made me question their relationship much before the kiss. It was beautifully done and the DLC made Joel's words of "you don't know what loss is", sting that much more, because to Ellie, she lost her whole world the day Riley died.
I...I don't even, I don't even know how to explain the way your analysis on Left Behind (and The Last of Us as a whole) moved me. I'm not even kidding, I'm crying. You're absolutely right in that pictures can't replace the memories of those rare moments we experience. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me remember those moments I had with my dad, revisiting them. Nothing can replace that. You deserve far more recognition than you have but more than anything I want to tell you, that I wish/hope/want you to be happy.
The more of these videos you make, the more recognition you will get. People are going to love you your great, your views and ideas on the humanities inside the videos of this channel are unique and intelligent. Your growing in to one of my favorite you tubers, keep it up.
There is a recording near the end that says 12 test subjects were tested and all failed... Joel didnt want to risk that failing again and also loosing Ellie
I was a bit disappointed by the ending, very abrupt and all choice is pretty much taken away from the player. I didn't like that you don't get any alternate choices in the ending to give closure to whatever the player cares most about in the story.
Another video suggested that the lack of choice is a good thing. Your hesitation in playing is Joel's hesitation in his mind, like with killing the surgeon. I hesitated thinking i could punch him and run but then i killed him... Thought it was interesting. And yes i know this is 2 months late but i just finished the game lol
@@Antiformed - That was the whole point of the story, though. I know it's been 2 years since you made this comment. But still. Giving you a choice would destroy the story built up until that point. The game is about Joel and Ellie's relationship. About Joel going from a completely closed off person, with all his possible defenses up, because of how his survival story started. The death of his daughter. Joel, unknowingly lowers his defenses, and he notices he actually cares Ellie in the scene where Ellie says that everyone she loves has either died or left her. Everyone, expect for Joel. That's when their relationship flourishes, and both of them lower their defenses almost entirely. Their relationship culminates in the David scene. Where he ends up literally calling her "baby girl", just like he did Sarah.
... the ending has nothing to do with establishing or revealing that the entire story is a father-daughter surrogate redemption story. That is literally established and made stupidly obvious the second his daughter dies and is instantly replaced by Elie. It's nowhere near as deep as you're trying to make it sound. The ending is Joel taking away Elie's agency and deciding for her that she isn't allowed to sacrifice herself for the greater good, killing probably the last qualified surgeons in the world in the process. I didn't like it because I don't agree with Joel and as a player I was not given the option NOT to kill people I think have way more right to live than Joel does. The ending was seriously so shit that when I finished it, I thought I got a Bad Ending and went to run through it again, trying not to kill people, and you can't. It's just boring. They put Joel and Elie into this situation by forcing the plot to happen that way just to be like "oh man, joel is really concerned about elie now!!" like no shit, he obviously was concerned about her the whole game. I dunno why Japan understands how to write a tsundere character and the US thinks it means "i vocally talk as if i don't care when i clearly do from the very start" instead of him genuinely not caring and then having his concern slowly become genuine.
Wow. That ending, it really moved me and hit something deep inside. This analysis is absolutely brilliant, and really heartbreaking at the same time. I don't even know how to adequately put my feelings into words here, but what you said about being hostages of time... I don't think I'll ever forget that.
Children of Men is probably my favorite film! I'm a big fan of Alfonso Cuaron's work. Anyway, when I first played the Last of Us, I was completely engrossed and stunned yet something about it felt so familiar. Then I rewatched Children of Men and realized that TLOU is essentially a retelling of the story in the film, but much more grounded in the characters. I mean, besides the main plot and concept, TLOU borrows key moments, themes, and visuals from the movie and then builds on them, fleshing them out by making you--the player--experience them yourself. Thank you so much for this analysis! I'd love to see a video comparing and contrasting TLOU and Children of Men even further. There's a lot of meat there! But a video about the Wasteland and Children of Men would be rad too. Keep up the stellar work, SolePorpoise!
About the kiss: I don't think it was about being gay or not being gay. I think your buddy Grant Voegtle got it exactly right in his dissection of Left Behind: it's about the fact that Ellie cares about Riley (and vice versa) more than as just a friend...doesn't have to be sexual, but it could be, we don't know. It's about deep love between the two. Clearly I wasn't the only one to see that kiss coming from almost the very beginning of Left Behind, and I had zero idea it would happen prior to playing either of these games. You analyzed it nicely.
He1boy Creative director Neil Drunkman confirmed she was gay. However I watched Grant Voegtle's video on Left Behind and I thought he summed it up amazingly.
So far I've only watched 3 minutes of this, I just have to commend you on your analysis on the photographs. Absolutely brilliant. So glad I found this channel, we seem to share a similar view of how deep and thoughtful a game's design can be. I'll definitely be watching your other videos, keep up the fantastic work.
***** Thanks so much! That's generous of you to say! I'm definitely keeping it up and my next video should be out in the next few weeks--I'm extremely excited about it. Thanks again for the support man! :D
Awesome video dude there was so much detail that no really realised in Left Behind and a lot of things bond up to that moment keep doing videos like these :D
Less than three weeks ago, a very important person in my life died and your conclusion really resonated with me. It’s hard scrambling for photos and audio recordings of that person and realizing that it’s never going to be enough and that death of people you love can happen at anytime. That we should appreciate the time spent with them while we can.
Photos are more like markers that our memory can use to remember things that may slip and fade away. We forget so much and photos are a more efficient way to remember. Also aids in seeing ourselves like others see us, if only superfluously. Beautiful sentiment that you expressed in the video none-the-less.
Wow this brought me to tears! Another amazing video man! This game is the best game ever and you are one of the best people at explaining it beauty. Well done my friend, this is perfect.
I surprised myself not understanding but just listening to your deep voice :) it's comforting. Your two analyzes are detailed and deep, and none of the statements are opinions: they are just facts! Thanks a lot for this video!
Incredible philosophical/existential analysis of what the last of us stands for. I agree with most of what you said, and you introduced me to new thoughts on the meaning of the game. Well worth the 20 minutes of my time, and if there were more to it (which let's be honest, there is) I would gladly sit and listen once more, as my mind is being reassured by the fact that some consider mere speculation, and over reading the game, is actually based on the designers', and creative team's mindset.
You sir need more attention! Coming from a philosophy class I can say that you nailed everything in this video! I'm also glad you drew comparisons from Children of Men (one of my favorite movies). Left Behind is what DLCs should be and loved your analysis of The Last of Us, well-thought out and intelligent. Have you ever thought about doing a video on Bioshock or even Bioshock Infinite?
Ashton Krueger Awl man thank you so much! I have considered doing a video on the original Bioshock. That was one of the first games to make me realize games can be read as literature, actually! But there's already been so much awesome work done on it I don't know that there's *too* much I can add to the discussion that's worth adding. If I find there's a niche I can fill I'll definitely go for it but as of right now I don't see it happening. As for Bioshock Infinite, I don't think I *got* it, haha. I might revisit that one too but I feel that if I couldn't get the surface-level stuff, I certainly couldn't get the subtext. But that one's on my list to replay so it's a *little* more likely. The more I hear requests for Infinite, the higher it moves on my "to play" list so thanks a ton for the recommendations! Thanks for the kind words and the support! :D
Adam Gallacher Thank you! :D And I hadn't considered something like that but I actually have some ideas, come to think of it. I'll see if I have enough to say to make an entire video. If nothing else, thanks for the suggestion! I'm glad to know there's an interest for something like that. Thanks again, man! :D
The videos you make are of very high quality, I don't know what else there is but maybe further videos on this game on top of the ones you have made already? They are just so interesting X.X
Sir, I applaud you, this was masterfully written. Not often I say that. I was surprised to find myself almost tearful near the end which makes me even more annoyed I can’t use you as an academic source in this paper I’m going to write, but I shall certainly try to find texts that support the points made here. Can’t believe I’m only finding this four years down the line! Hope all is well with you~
i think that Left Behind is after bioshock's Burial at the Sea one of the best dlc i have ever played... and i can definitely imagine how they could make it even more tear jerking, something like Ellie shooting Riley in the end or even worse...
I would be really interested in a video comparing The Children of Men and The Wasteland. Both the film and the poem have meant a lot to me (in addition to The Hollow Men and The Four Quartets). I loved your video with Grant and I look forward to your future videos!
choochootrain64 Hey! Thanks so much for the kind words! :D Good to know that you're interested in a video on Children of Men and The Wasteland! Thanks for that feedback! Also, I'm actually doing another video that touches on The Hollow Men but the readings I've seen aren't all that helpful to my conclusion. But I'll see what I can do to expound on that because I thought I was the only one interested in it. Anyway, thanks for the comment and the support! :D
A decent theory and interesting analysis, though I have issue with the infertility thing. Even if Ellie was straight she couldn't concieve without infecting whoever she mates with, and that still says nothing about how the baby would turn out. That seems to be an often overlooked aspect of the whole story, the fact that the fungus is still INSIDE of her, she is still infected, it just isn't overtaking her.
Another great job SolePorpoise! I really enjoyed this. There was just one thing I disagreed with - your theory that perhaps those who claim that Ellie is not gay do so out of a (subconscious?) desire to see her save humanity through the passing of her immunity onto her future children. As an avid fan of The Last Of Us, I have suffered the reading of a great many of those comments on threads, Facebook posts, Tweets, you name it and have come to one very simple conclusion. These people are homophobic. They may not know it and they may claim not to be, but they are. Keep the vids coming, looking forward to seeing what you produce next.
Thanks, man! As for your point, I'm always reluctant to use the word "homophobic" based on just that information. Because it's a charged term, it can have a chilling effect on the discussion-and I think this is a great one to have! Like you said, it's been a year and we're still having the debate. I can only see that as a positive thing. :) Thanks a lot for the awesome feedback! I'm always glad to see your support on my videos! :D
SkittleBuk1 Well, you do have a point here. And I trust that you'll be as calm and rational as possible while I state my uninvited, but badly needed input. First, are you saying that those who are even of the SLIGHTEST opinion that Ellie may not be gay, are homophobic? And the reason for you in believing that, is because you've read many comments, FB posts, tweets and etc? You claim to know that a person can be homophobic even if they don't claim to be. Well, I don't think you have any evidence for doing so. I don't know what comments you've read, but if it's of the opinion that Ellie isn't gay, I don't see how that's homophobic. The person is just interpreting it in their own way. That is part of the aim of the game, isn't it? If on the other hand, a person says that she CANNOT be gay, and it is inherently wrong to do so, then we can both agree that the person is homophobic. Second, and you HAVE to understand this. Not everyone has the luxury of living in an environment that doesn't have prejudiced people all around. As you may or may not experienced, most of us a prejudiced in one way or another, it just depends on the intensity. Some eventually get rid of their prejudiced views, but how? Through experience, reason. But before one has developed a more valid idea about homosexuality, they may be slightly prejudiced, and it's not entirely their fault either. It's not like they WANT to be prejudiced. They just don't know better, and they don't get offended if they learn of something new, and adapt their views to it. I can argue against Ellie being gay. But I can also argue for the fact that Ellie is gay. How am I inadvertently contributing to a culture of silence and discrimination? I may not be comfortable around gay people, but that's just because we don't have a lot of gay people here. Don't rule out subconscious conditioning, it affects people in a lot more ways than one. You seem like a person who believed there's a lot of black and white answers to these questions. I believe you should take a backseat and observe situations objectively before commenting on them.
CivilisedHumanity (Wei Jin) Perhaps a better way of explaining it would be to say that a culture of discrimination gives way to such assertions being put forward to begin with. Did you misunderstand that? I am labeling a behaviour, not an intention. I accept everything you say about people and the nature of prejudice, but it doesn't change much. I'm not talking about people like you. Perhaps I should have made it clearer at the time, but meh. *shrugs*
CivilisedHumanity (Wei Jin) You're ignoring the fact that Ellie IS gay. No matter what argument you put forward, it doesn't change the fact that the entire production team intended for her to be gay. It's foreshadowed to the point where they may as well have just flashed the word "GAY" across the cutscenes in massive letters. It's not ambiguous, and it's not left open to artistic interpretation. So what's left? Prejudice, and a handful of people who just enjoy pulling pop culture apart piece by piece and exploring all avenues until the fun has been sucked from the bones of it. There are WAY too many "Ellie's not gay!" voices out there to put it down to the latter. You can probably pick my arguments apart here because I'm not the best at intellectual discussion. I get mad and make dramatic, often spurious, statements before thinking them through. But the bones of what I'm saying is true. There is a massive homophobic sentiment behind the majority of the debates on this topic and that's plain for anyone to see.
Like I said, I can make arguments for both sides. I am NOT ignoring the "fact" that Ellie is gay. In fact I have ACCEPTED it. What I'm saying is that there is possibility that her sexuality may change. But of course, I don't like arguing. You have your views, which you will hold on to death. As Dale Carnegie said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". You're gonna hold on to your views, and I respect that, and I will leave it here. -Jin
Here's a bit for your video comparison of Children of Men/The Wasteland if you ever do it: talk about the parallels between the scene at 7:18 and the cover of Pink Floyd's Animals album and therefore the themes and content of the song lyrics within.
Regardless of any official statements made by Naughty Dog, I don't think Ellie is necessarily gay, or rather I don't think its the right word or concept to be applied here. And, I don't think it matters. In the environment Ellie grew up in, all sense of love/happiness was fleeting. She explains through, optional dialogue in The Last of Us, and the main story of Left Behind, that she was raised in an orphanage/military-prep-school, after her parents passed, which seemed to separate housing arrangements by gender. meaning that she spent a lot of time with and getting close, and emotionally attached, to Riley. Ellie put it best, when she was screaming at Joel, at the house in the woods, when she said, "Everyone I have cared for has either died, or left me..!" In Ellie's world when she forms a bond or attachment or love, of any form, for/with another human being, she clings to that for dear life, as it is, quite literally, the only thing she has left, and her only reason to go-on living. That said, I don't think Ellie necessarily prefers one gender over the other. Because in her world, she doesn't have that luxury. So, I wasn't surprised when Ellie Kissed Riley, nor did I care or think anything of it. I was simply happy that she was able to feel those feelings toward someone at all, given all the shit she's had to endure. So, while I'm sure I won't have the last words on this topic, and I hope I don't, I want you all to ask yourself a, very important, question: Does it actually matter if Ellie is Gay, straight, bi, etc.?
SolePorpoise will do man, I can easily say Last of Us is in my top 3 favorite games ever so I'll probably like this movie. I have seen the Road which also looks like it inspired Last of Us as well.
the choice of Joel in the ending of LoU in some ways i believe mirrors the choice of Kain in the Soul Reaver series to not do "the right thing" and sacrifice himself because some prophecy (Kain as the scion of balance would restore the pillars and thus the balance of the world). In the ending, It was Just a hipothesis. and a lie made by tradition (the Elder god and his Wheel of time manifestation).
I think one thing you forgot about the whole Ellie wont reproduce on her own is that the ideal of the cure in the first one was to cut out the brain and study it. Which would kill her. Sure the ideal of reproduction might help but its not a guarantee since you are getting genes from both the mother and father. Or like in the movie 9 months later. (The zombie movies based in England. There was 21 days later then x months later) The infection started spreading again because one of the main characters wife ended up being immune to the infection and survived. He went in to kiss her and got infected and therefore started spreading the infection again.
Now that i watched it I agree with your points but you know what gets to me? The fact that even though what Joel did was out of love, it wasn't necessarily the right thing. So basically the last of us shows you that humans -unlike animals- don't always do whats the best for their survival throughout the years rather they do what their heart wishes. No matter what. Thanks for the vid loved it.
Hey man! That's essentially what I'm taking away from this. It seems to me that there's a mystical element in our ability to love. I don't mean mystical in the sense that it's supernatural, but in the sense that it inspires wonder and awe. And like I said, it's what's left after the end of the world. It's a really inspiring message-at least, it is to me! :D Thanks again man!
Haha well thanks for your support! I don't know if this is my last video for The Last of Us because every time I play it I pick up on new things. But because I want to give you guys all of my arguments and evidence at once, it leaves me with longer but fewer videos. So to answer your question, I'm not saying never... but this is *probably* all I have in me until we get a sequel. :( Sorry! But again, thanks for the support! :D
idk how we changed but nowadays people forgot that your spirit have to be fed too. you'll see millions of views on some crap on youtube and videos like this where your mind is fed are getting less views. thx for your videos. they used to make movies for the mind nowadays it's just for the eyes
very interesting video, thanks to grant voegle for taking me here :) My personal opinion is ellie is homosexual, the kiss was just out of pure love to the only person in the world she cares about. The last of us and the left behind are just so incredibly well made games, that I think Iam going to play through them again, now for the 11th time....
I believe Ellie is bi, in another way, I believe she loved Riley and that physicality of it wasn't even part of the story yet by that point. Like @Omar Ali said the kiss was there to show how significant the loss of Riley is to Ellie, but it is love regardless. But labeling her as gay doesn't do anything, in fact it undermines the connection that Ellie has to Riley by making it seem as if Ellie's feelings WERENT complicated by her love of Riley, because it surely was very confusing to Ellie. LGBT is all about identifying and understanding one's own orientation and it's not as simple as physical attraction. I think seeing it as young love is what's most important because it then entices you to consider how rare any love would be in TLOU world, plus how important her trust is to Ellie and to see that Riley truly cares by her coming back and telling her the truth out of her own choice.
in my opinion, I don't see Ellie and Riley in a romantic relationship. I see them more as friends basically. I usually have a couple of reasons why I don't particularly ship certain people, it's either I don't see them that way or I ship them with someone else. I started shipping Ells with my oc months after left behind was released. as for Neil's confirmation, I'm not gonna buy into that easily. ND does lie sometimes and we have no idea what could possibly happen in part 2. I am aware that there is gonna be a new lgbt character in part 2 but we shouldn't automatically assume Ellie with have a girlfriend. also in my opinion, as well as a friend of mine, the kiss scene felt kinda forced. so while I still have negativity about that scene, about Ells possibly being gay, (note, I'm not homophobic) a part of me just doesn't care. it hasn't changed anything really on how I feel about Ellie. She's still my favorite character and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in part 2. btw, never noticed the whole pictures thing. good catch.
I feel like the commentary regarding evolution is a little off-base. First off, evolution doesn't just involve directly passing your genes on to another generation, it also involves ensuring the survival and procreation of organisms with similar genes, so family or one's social community. Hence Joel helping Ellie is not contrary to the driving force behind evolution. We evolved to care about those around us because it helps other humans pass on their genes, particularly those who are close to us. Additionally, watching this video was the first time I ever considered whether Ellie's immunity could be passed down to her children. Her immunity is framed with respect to studying her to bring her immunity to everyone, not with the idea that her kin will be the lone survivors on the planet.
everyone's all concerned about how Ellie is gay and I'm just over here like "does that funky song they're dancing to exist in the real world? Is that a real song or was it just made for the game?"
I was thinking about Ellie's kiss after I played left behind I think she's not gay but she knows she won't be able to see Riley, which is her best friend for along time and she did it without thinking about it Anyways awesome content! Keep it up!
I don't think Left Behind is too good for DLC. I personally find the very concept of "too good for DLC" ridiculous. You might as well say "This is too good for a home console" in the first couple of generations, and I have little doubt that the backlash against DLC will seem just as ridiculous once companies figure out that using DLC and micropayments _well_ is good for everyone.
I don't want to believe Ellie is gay because I don't want her to be gay. lol, I am a very simple guy. I have a reasonable explanation for the kiss, it was there because this was the only way they could show how significant the loss of Riley is to Ellie. I won't be broken if my best friend died, however I would if my wife or girlfriend did. They just put huge emphasis on that relationship, it had to be a love story to make sense.
***** The fact that people have different opinions? Consider it done. I'm over it. Voila! Now, back to Ellie. Neil Druckmann said she's gay. Ashley Johnson says she's gay. All of the foreshadowing within the game itself points to Ellie being gay. SolePorpoise says she's gay! She's definitely gay. Gay as gay as gay can be. I'm totally over the fact that other people have different opinions. I'm over the fact that no matter how much you shovel truth into peoples' mouths, they'd still rather spit it out and eat shit instead. So, are you over Ellie being gay yet?
***** I've read a thousand of these comments. Half of it is just plain incorrect, and the rest is grasping at straws. Gay does exist in a pandemic world. It exists in every world you can imagine. Before civilization, during civilization, after it. In the animal world, there is gay. Gay is here to stay, the end of society as we know it won't change that. We don't know that she "only had Riley" - actually we know that to be false as well. Riley and Ellie speak of the other kids at the beginning of Left Behind. I'm sure there were plenty of boys in the Military School, wouldn't ya think? Regardless, her age makes no mind because you see, we can be confused at any age. And furthermore, even THAT isn't the point, because you and others who espouse this theory would never have said "Wait a second guys, maybe Ellie is gay and just confused, she doesn't REALLY like boys, she's only 14" if Sam had been her love interest. Do you see the fallacy? I hope so.
***** It may be that you don't like labeling sexuality. If that is the case, then I can respect that man. That's cool with me. More than cool, I actually like the idea. But if you're just going to prop up the "she's-just-confused-they're-only-friends-she's-too-young-it's-the-apocalypse-and-gayness-died-with-society" bullshit that the homophobes pulled out of their asses last February then you need to reevaluate.
***** SolePorpoise Almost a year after its release and still the debates rage. Whatever side of the fence you choose to sit, I think we can all agree; this is one hell of a game and DLC.
I don't think people don't like Ellie being gay because of some "future of humanity" point. In the better case they don't like it because such a big character part was not something they could see in the base game and with it being "just the part of the dlc" makes it feel shoe-horned (regardless if it makes sense in the DLC itself, as the DLC is just an addon). In other cases they are just butthurt bigots who don't like them homosexuals. That said, I personally didn't feel the humanity deserves to be saved, in the LoU universe. What Joel did was bad in my opinion... but not because he may have destroyed the humanity chance to survive. It was bad only because he lied to her. The ending of LoU has some problems - the biggest one for me is the fact, that even though they try to portrait Joel's action as bad... the context still makes Fireflies worse, because they didn't give Ellie the chance to choose. She might as well know what awaits her, but they kind of took her righ from being unconscious to the operating table to kill her. She wasn't given a choice. And in this moment Joel's action was the right one - he saved her from the future that was thrusted upon her. ...And then he lied to her. But you know what, while it does not excuse him in the least, from the last exchange before the credits I think... she knew. And she CHOSE to accept it.
maybe this game is try to remind us "don't fuck up with the world we have now.. its fucked just enough". The Last of Us, huh...?! so fucking annoying..
Honestly, I like your analysis, but the DLC was very weak. The story runs mainly on assumed empathy for Riley, but the player has no reason to care about her other than what Ellie has said about her. DLC itself was fun during combat, but again, the non-combat sections, while not downright terrible, don't offer much in terms of replayability. And main reason I'm reluctant to call Ellie gay is because there's nothing in the story (main or DLC) that suggests she is gay. Big deal, she kissed a girl. That happens all the time. Guys have kissed guys. Doesn't mean they're gay. She's way too young to even know yet, honestly. Also, they should've shown how Riley died, but for some odd reason, they didn't show that. That was like, the entire point of the DLC. All in all, the DLC is okay, not great. Glad you took something away from it to make this video though, nice work. Great channel!
Sure, Ellie kissing Riley doesn't necessarily mean that she is gay. But, had Riley been a boy and Ellie kissed him, everyone would assume that she is straight (although, obviously no one would say "ellie is straight" after seeing it, because of heteronormativity). So, there is a double standard in what you said. I called out that Ellie was romantically into Riley about halfway into the DLC, so, to me, her being gay or possibly bisexual was pretty clear. As to Riley's death, I didn't feel that how she died was very important. The DLC is about how Ellie was infected and not how Riley died. And the focus was much more on characterizing Ellie than anything else.
Lol we already know how she was infected... showing it provides no closure. We don't know how Riley died, that's the interesting part. Sorry, but what did it add to Ellie's character? I can't even think of anything. We knew she cared for Riley. We knew she had to dig deep to save Joel. The DLC doesn't say anything that we didn't know already. They could've spent more time fleshing out Riley (maybe we would have had to save Riley or something or Riley saves us). There were no stakes and it was completely boring. Or maybe we lose Riley in the mall... honestly the whole thing was just underwhelming. Ellie being gay adds nothing because being gay or straight doesn't matter in the first place.
Oh, I didn't mean that Ellie being gay was what was being characterized. Sure, her sexuality is a bulletpoint, I guess, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about how the DLC shows how she has changed from when she wasn't infected to when she was saving Joel. When Ellie was with Riley, she was much more reliant on Riley and often followed what she said or went along with her. This is shown through the scenes like the mask scene, the dancing scene, or even the opening scene when Riley compels Ellie to go to the mall. This pretty much juxtaposes with the scenes when she's trying to save Joel in which she is self-reliant. Which is interesting, because chronologically, right after that, the player controls Ellie. The DLC also shows her and Riley's ideas of what the world was like and how people were and are like. Furthermore, as someone who is LGBT+ myself, I can attest that being gay, or bi, or trans, or whatever is actually really important to us. It makes up a huge part of our identity. I hear straight people say this a lot: "so what that she's gay or straight? it doesnt matter." Well, to you it doesn't because you're straight and you haven't had to think about this, but for someone who doesn't identify as straight, it is very important. It's much like how race plays a bigger part in the identity of a black person than a white person.
Okay... in my eyes, she acted exactly the same. She still cut a bitch and wrecked zombies. What's the difference. It's not like she was timid or scared or anything in the DLC... All those scenes you're talking about are barely noticeable. She has the exact same personality, she didn't grow by the end of the DLC at all. "The DLC also shows her and Riley's ideas of what the world was like and how people were and are like. " I don't know where you're getting this from. We didn't interact with any other characters besides Ellie and Riley. We were shown more old stuff. We weren't hanging out around the school or going through life on a strict schedule. It just felt like another level where we look at stuff and are supposed to think "oh cool... history/the past!" Eh. Don't agree. You're bringing up moments that, maybe for you were impactful, but for me it was just like, eh. Okay. Thanks for telling us the emotions we're supposed to feel instead of showing us. Boring. But that's fine. On the race thing, I was literally just thinking that. I'm Nigerian/black. I don't care about being black. It's really not a big deal. I'm glad being represented made you feel better, but it doesn't make the game or story better. MLK said judge people by their character and not their skin. And by extension, religion, gender, orientation etc. That goes across all groups so we can all relate. Labels don't connect people. Just my opinion. That's why I wasn't like "this game would've been way better if Joel was black". None of that matters. It's character. That's all I'm saying. Glad you enjoyed the DLC. I was bored by it :/
eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ to each their own. You're right. It must be a taste thing. For me, Ellie did feel like she grew and I was personally immensely satisfied with the DLC. And I don't really give a fuck about representation. I can identify with whatever character is onscreen so long as they are written well, but I was just trying to justify why being LGBT+ does matter to people. I am really irked when people just dismiss the actual importance of a character being lgbt. To me, it is important for Ellie that she is lgbt, and it is important for the game to convey that aspect of her personality, because it is important to lgbt people that they personally are lgbt. I don't really know if I am explaining myself very well, but whatever. I like when characters are more fleshed out.
"Being gay" isn't even a thing. Homosexuality is something you do, not something you are. Anymore than someone can "be vegetarian" just because they only eat vegetables. You can certainly call it that and many do in a pathetic search for identity based on actions, but the correct term is 'choosing to eat only vegetables' or 'choosing to engage romantically only with the same sex.'
nope, being gay is not a choice. being attracted to someone of the same gender as yourself is not an active choice you make. no straight person chose to be straight; they just are.
The Neon Pogo Dancer Yeah that's the politically correct stance to take in the United States alright. It isn't true, but it certainly gets people to nod solemnly and give you approving looks for how progressive you are.
Insomnant, haha thats pretty funny dude. cause, um, i am gay. and i never chose to be gay. in fact, had i had a choice, i would choose to be straight, because my life would be much, much easier. have you ever even talked to a gay person before?
The Neon Pogo Dancer Of course I have. I've worked with quite a few. And I do feel bad for you, not in a condescending way or anything. But you live in a society that tells you that this is something inescapable, unchangeable, unalterable, an immutable fact about who you are. The reason for this was to push acceptance of homosexuality onto a culture based on Christian morality. But it's very harmful for those like yourself who've grown up being taught that your sexuality is hardcoded onto you. It's the same sort of evil as how blacks used to be told that they would never amount to anything, that the best they could hope for is being slaves because their inferiority is part of who they are.
im not saying that homosexuality is "hardcoded into me;" im saying it just isn't a choice. and i did not grow up being taught that being gay isn't a choice as i was brought up in a homophobic household. if it is, indeed, as you said, a choice, then would i become straight if i just tried really hard? because that makes no sense to me. and also, thats a non-sequitur. you made quite the logical leap between telling people that sexuality isn't a choice and telling slaves that they are inferior. those two have little to no connection. i think the reason you made that jump is because you see gay people as inferior to straight people. am i correct?
I've lost someone close to me recently, so the ending to this really hit home for me. The catharsis is real. Awesome work, man. I love your stuff.
xilix First, and most importantly, I'm very sorry for your loss.
Second, I really appreciate your kind words and continued support. It means a lot. :)
I hope your loved one is in Heaven 🙏🏼
I'm still sad about your loss though..
I'm happy to finally see someone who recognizes all of the wonderful moments between these two besides just the kiss. Their feelings for each other were so clear I'm amazed some people still managed to be surprised when the kiss did happen.
It's interesting that you bring up that whole "infertility" thing. I never really thought about it that way. Maybe because I never considered her immunity to be genetic...
After all, this is a parasite we're talking about, so I would think this is a consequence of a fault with the parasitic organism itself rather than with Ellie's biology. This is why I was always sceptical about the fireflies developing a cure or a vaccine too.
Not everyone thinks about Ellie's "infertility" as permanent as you btw. I saw a guy suggest it was selfish of Ellie to "choose" to be a lesbian during the apocalypse. "She should put her personal feelings aside and have sex with men in order to reproduce." Needless to say I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw that comment...
Though it should be said: lesbians can still choose to reproduce and it doesn't even have to include sex with a man (as the cretin above seemed to be suggesting). A simple syringe with some donated sperm will do the trick just as nicely.
You'd need a willing donor of course but hey... it would be selfish of a man to refuse donating his sperm during an apocalypse. ;)
(just to be perfectly clear, I'm only saying this to poke fun at the guy with the puke inducing comment)
If they had the facilities she could donate a whole ton of eggs. Regardless of sexuality or willingness, it is simply not feasible for one woman to have enough children to fix the whole human race, but with like two hundred couples, each one using a donated egg and different sperm, maybe.
@@OniKensei "it is simply not feasible for one woman to fix the human race"
Bruh have you ever read this thing called, The Bible? You know most of the modern world is descended from Genghis Khan alone right? One person can do plenty of repopulating, male or female.
@@Antiformed I'm just saying it would take a lot longer with one woman. You get about one baby every nine months. And Eve didn't have competition. Everybody else is having kids, so it would be like vaccinating one kid out of a million. It wouldn't fix anything. You got to have high numbers on your side with genetics.
@@Antiformed Oh yeah of course! Awesome! Ellie’ll just whore herself into a perpetual baby factory and supposing it’s even possible to pass on genetically, the whole human race should be immune in about a thousand years. Yeah, fucking genius solution…
My friend, you are very much under-appreciated. I hope people will discover this channel in greater numbers soon, because you are very talented and deserve recognition for your work. Keep it up, cuz we who are here love ya. k..? ok...
Holy moly thank you so much! I love you guys too!
You're the second person to call me talented-I'll let my mom know you agree with her! :D
Believe me man, I have no intention of stopping. I love doing this stuff and seeing all of your guys' awesome comments makes me want to go 10x faster. Seriously, thank you for your support!
SolePorpoise Please continue this! I've never been so happy to have stumbled upon a series on UA-cam!
***** You got it! :D I was working on my next video when I saw a notification for this comment pop up. It should be ready in the next few weeks.
I'm happy you stumbled upon this series too! I really appreciate the support! :D Thank you!
I absolutely love your videos...I've seen a few tonight, and this one struck me hard. I've played everything The Last of Us and Left Behind have to offer, but the things I've seen in both just...didn't sink in until now. The real beauty and method behind these experiences, and what they actually mean. All I can really say is thank you.
That's very kind of you to say. Thank you!
Thank you for seeing the beauty and importance of this DLC. So many people got wrapped up and outraged at Ellie's sexuality as if Naughty Dog threw it in there just because. As if Naughty Dog ever make decisions without proper meaning! You're totally right about there being signs of their relationship well before the kiss too. The signs were subtle, but they made me question their relationship much before the kiss. It was beautifully done and the DLC made Joel's words of "you don't know what loss is", sting that much more, because to Ellie, she lost her whole world the day Riley died.
I...I don't even, I don't even know how to explain the way your analysis on Left Behind (and The Last of Us as a whole) moved me. I'm not even kidding, I'm crying.
You're absolutely right in that pictures can't replace the memories of those rare moments we experience.
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me remember those moments I had with my dad, revisiting them. Nothing can replace that. You deserve far more recognition than you have but more than anything I want to tell you, that I wish/hope/want you to be happy.
Thank you! I wish you happiness, too! :D
I'm really happy to know this moved someone so much. Thanks for the awesome feedback!
The more of these videos you make, the more recognition you will get. People are going to love you your great, your views and ideas on the humanities inside the videos of this channel are unique and intelligent. Your growing in to one of my favorite you tubers, keep it up.
Seriously man, thank you so much! That's one of the most amazing compliments I've ever received! I'm honored to have you as a fan! :D
Daamn this was so deep and beautiful
There is a recording near the end that says 12 test subjects were tested and all failed... Joel didnt want to risk that failing again and also loosing Ellie
He didn't know that when he chose to save Ellie, so that proves he didn't think to save Ellie, he just wanted her
I was a bit disappointed by the ending, very abrupt and all choice is pretty much taken away from the player. I didn't like that you don't get any alternate choices in the ending to give closure to whatever the player cares most about in the story.
Another video suggested that the lack of choice is a good thing. Your hesitation in playing is Joel's hesitation in his mind, like with killing the surgeon. I hesitated thinking i could punch him and run but then i killed him... Thought it was interesting. And yes i know this is 2 months late but i just finished the game lol
@@Antiformed - That was the whole point of the story, though. I know it's been 2 years since you made this comment. But still.
Giving you a choice would destroy the story built up until that point. The game is about Joel and Ellie's relationship. About Joel going from a completely closed off person, with all his possible defenses up, because of how his survival story started. The death of his daughter.
Joel, unknowingly lowers his defenses, and he notices he actually cares Ellie in the scene where Ellie says that everyone she loves has either died or left her. Everyone, expect for Joel.
That's when their relationship flourishes, and both of them lower their defenses almost entirely.
Their relationship culminates in the David scene. Where he ends up literally calling her "baby girl", just like he did Sarah.
... the ending has nothing to do with establishing or revealing that the entire story is a father-daughter surrogate redemption story. That is literally established and made stupidly obvious the second his daughter dies and is instantly replaced by Elie. It's nowhere near as deep as you're trying to make it sound.
The ending is Joel taking away Elie's agency and deciding for her that she isn't allowed to sacrifice herself for the greater good, killing probably the last qualified surgeons in the world in the process. I didn't like it because I don't agree with Joel and as a player I was not given the option NOT to kill people I think have way more right to live than Joel does. The ending was seriously so shit that when I finished it, I thought I got a Bad Ending and went to run through it again, trying not to kill people, and you can't. It's just boring. They put Joel and Elie into this situation by forcing the plot to happen that way just to be like "oh man, joel is really concerned about elie now!!" like no shit, he obviously was concerned about her the whole game.
I dunno why Japan understands how to write a tsundere character and the US thinks it means "i vocally talk as if i don't care when i clearly do from the very start" instead of him genuinely not caring and then having his concern slowly become genuine.
Wow. That ending, it really moved me and hit something deep inside. This analysis is absolutely brilliant, and really heartbreaking at the same time. I don't even know how to adequately put my feelings into words here, but what you said about being hostages of time... I don't think I'll ever forget that.
Children of Men is probably my favorite film! I'm a big fan of Alfonso Cuaron's work.
Anyway, when I first played the Last of Us, I was completely engrossed and stunned yet something about it felt so familiar. Then I rewatched Children of Men and realized that TLOU is essentially a retelling of the story in the film, but much more grounded in the characters. I mean, besides the main plot and concept, TLOU borrows key moments, themes, and visuals from the movie and then builds on them, fleshing them out by making you--the player--experience them yourself.
Thank you so much for this analysis! I'd love to see a video comparing and contrasting TLOU and Children of Men even further. There's a lot of meat there! But a video about the Wasteland and Children of Men would be rad too. Keep up the stellar work, SolePorpoise!
You have a beautiful way with words!
Oh my goodness! Thank you! :D
Another great video man! I especially love analysis videos on The Last of Us so i'm really happy you did this!
Thanks so much! :D I really appreciate the continued support!
About the kiss: I don't think it was about being gay or not being gay. I think your buddy Grant Voegtle got it exactly right in his dissection of Left Behind: it's about the fact that Ellie cares about Riley (and vice versa) more than as just a friend...doesn't have to be sexual, but it could be, we don't know. It's about deep love between the two.
Clearly I wasn't the only one to see that kiss coming from almost the very beginning of Left Behind, and I had zero idea it would happen prior to playing either of these games. You analyzed it nicely.
He1boy Creative director Neil Drunkman confirmed she was gay. However I watched Grant Voegtle's video on Left Behind and I thought he summed it up amazingly.
That was unbelievably beautiful, thank you
So far I've only watched 3 minutes of this, I just have to commend you on your analysis on the photographs.
Absolutely brilliant.
So glad I found this channel, we seem to share a similar view of how deep and thoughtful a game's design can be.
I'll definitely be watching your other videos, keep up the fantastic work.
***** Thanks so much! That's generous of you to say!
I'm definitely keeping it up and my next video should be out in the next few weeks--I'm extremely excited about it. Thanks again for the support man! :D
Awesome video dude there was so much detail that no really realised in Left Behind and a lot of things bond up to that moment keep doing videos like these :D
Thank you so much! I definitely have more coming! :D
this is such a good video man!! wow! inspires me to enjoy whats left of my life to the fullest!
Usher Raymond Thank you so much! I'm happy to hear it! :D
Beautifully written don't stop doing these, much love.
Less than three weeks ago, a very important person in my life died and your conclusion really resonated with me. It’s hard scrambling for photos and audio recordings of that person and realizing that it’s never going to be enough and that death of people you love can happen at anytime. That we should appreciate the time spent with them while we can.
This channel is gold! Keep it up bro
Photos are more like markers that our memory can use to remember things that may slip and fade away. We forget so much and photos are a more efficient way to remember. Also aids in seeing ourselves like others see us, if only superfluously.
Beautiful sentiment that you expressed in the video none-the-less.
Wow this brought me to tears! Another amazing video man! This game is the best game ever and you are one of the best people at explaining it beauty. Well done my friend, this is perfect.
thank you for making truly mind-blowing analysis, such amazing content needs more attention and i'll be sure to share it with whom ever i can.
Oliver watson Thank *you*! :D I really appreciate that!
I surprised myself not understanding but just listening to your deep voice :) it's comforting. Your two analyzes are detailed and deep, and none of the statements are opinions: they are just facts! Thanks a lot for this video!
ThePhil344 Thank you! :D I'm working tirelessly on the next video right now so it should be up in the next couple days! Thanks again!
Incredible philosophical/existential analysis of what the last of us stands for. I agree with most of what you said, and you introduced me to new thoughts on the meaning of the game. Well worth the 20 minutes of my time, and if there were more to it (which let's be honest, there is) I would gladly sit and listen once more, as my mind is being reassured by the fact that some consider mere speculation, and over reading the game, is actually based on the designers', and creative team's mindset.
You sir need more attention! Coming from a philosophy class I can say that you nailed everything in this video! I'm also glad you drew comparisons from Children of Men (one of my favorite movies). Left Behind is what DLCs should be and loved your analysis of The Last of Us, well-thought out and intelligent.
Have you ever thought about doing a video on Bioshock or even Bioshock Infinite?
Ashton Krueger Awl man thank you so much!
I have considered doing a video on the original Bioshock. That was one of the first games to make me realize games can be read as literature, actually! But there's already been so much awesome work done on it I don't know that there's *too* much I can add to the discussion that's worth adding. If I find there's a niche I can fill I'll definitely go for it but as of right now I don't see it happening.
As for Bioshock Infinite, I don't think I *got* it, haha. I might revisit that one too but I feel that if I couldn't get the surface-level stuff, I certainly couldn't get the subtext. But that one's on my list to replay so it's a *little* more likely. The more I hear requests for Infinite, the higher it moves on my "to play" list so thanks a ton for the recommendations!
Thanks for the kind words and the support! :D
Fantastic video mate. Would love to see you do a piece on what thematic direction they can take the sequel.
Adam Gallacher Thank you! :D
And I hadn't considered something like that but I actually have some ideas, come to think of it. I'll see if I have enough to say to make an entire video. If nothing else, thanks for the suggestion! I'm glad to know there's an interest for something like that.
Thanks again, man! :D
The videos you make are of very high quality, I don't know what else there is but maybe further videos on this game on top of the ones you have made already? They are just so interesting X.X
Wonderful video man
Goddamn that ending was magical.
Sir, I applaud you, this was masterfully written. Not often I say that. I was surprised to find myself almost tearful near the end which makes me even more annoyed I can’t use you as an academic source in this paper I’m going to write, but I shall certainly try to find texts that support the points made here. Can’t believe I’m only finding this four years down the line! Hope all is well with you~
i think that Left Behind is after bioshock's Burial at the Sea one of the best dlc i have ever played... and i can definitely imagine how they could make it even more tear jerking, something like Ellie shooting Riley in the end or even worse...
amazing how well this video connects with your analysis of interstellar especially considering you did this video before the interstellar analysis
I would be really interested in a video comparing The Children of Men and The Wasteland. Both the film and the poem have meant a lot to me (in addition to The Hollow Men and The Four Quartets). I loved your video with Grant and I look forward to your future videos!
choochootrain64 Hey! Thanks so much for the kind words! :D
Good to know that you're interested in a video on Children of Men and The Wasteland! Thanks for that feedback! Also, I'm actually doing another video that touches on The Hollow Men but the readings I've seen aren't all that helpful to my conclusion. But I'll see what I can do to expound on that because I thought I was the only one interested in it.
Anyway, thanks for the comment and the support! :D
Really liked your analysis, mate. Keep it up!
That's amazing!! Beautifully done!
This is a flawless analysis 🙏!!!
i swear i didnt cry
A decent theory and interesting analysis, though I have issue with the infertility thing. Even if Ellie was straight she couldn't concieve without infecting whoever she mates with, and that still says nothing about how the baby would turn out. That seems to be an often overlooked aspect of the whole story, the fact that the fungus is still INSIDE of her, she is still infected, it just isn't overtaking her.
Another great job SolePorpoise! I really enjoyed this. There was just one thing I disagreed with - your theory that perhaps those who claim that Ellie is not gay do so out of a (subconscious?) desire to see her save humanity through the passing of her immunity onto her future children. As an avid fan of The Last Of Us, I have suffered the reading of a great many of those comments on threads, Facebook posts, Tweets, you name it and have come to one very simple conclusion. These people are homophobic. They may not know it and they may claim not to be, but they are. Keep the vids coming, looking forward to seeing what you produce next.
Thanks, man!
As for your point, I'm always reluctant to use the word "homophobic" based on just that information. Because it's a charged term, it can have a chilling effect on the discussion-and I think this is a great one to have! Like you said, it's been a year and we're still having the debate. I can only see that as a positive thing. :)
Thanks a lot for the awesome feedback! I'm always glad to see your support on my videos! :D
SkittleBuk1 Well, you do have a point here. And I trust that you'll be as calm and rational as possible while I state my uninvited, but badly needed input.
First, are you saying that those who are even of the SLIGHTEST opinion that Ellie may not be gay, are homophobic? And the reason for you in believing that, is because you've read many comments, FB posts, tweets and etc? You claim to know that a person can be homophobic even if they don't claim to be. Well, I don't think you have any evidence for doing so. I don't know what comments you've read, but if it's of the opinion that Ellie isn't gay, I don't see how that's homophobic. The person is just interpreting it in their own way. That is part of the aim of the game, isn't it? If on the other hand, a person says that she CANNOT be gay, and it is inherently wrong to do so, then we can both agree that the person is homophobic.
Second, and you HAVE to understand this. Not everyone has the luxury of living in an environment that doesn't have prejudiced people all around. As you may or may not experienced, most of us a prejudiced in one way or another, it just depends on the intensity. Some eventually get rid of their prejudiced views, but how? Through experience, reason. But before one has developed a more valid idea about homosexuality, they may be slightly prejudiced, and it's not entirely their fault either. It's not like they WANT to be prejudiced. They just don't know better, and they don't get offended if they learn of something new, and adapt their views to it. I can argue against Ellie being gay. But I can also argue for the fact that Ellie is gay. How am I inadvertently contributing to a culture of silence and discrimination? I may not be comfortable around gay people, but that's just because we don't have a lot of gay people here. Don't rule out subconscious conditioning, it affects people in a lot more ways than one.
You seem like a person who believed there's a lot of black and white answers to these questions. I believe you should take a backseat and observe situations objectively before commenting on them.
CivilisedHumanity (Wei Jin) Perhaps a better way of explaining it would be to say that a culture of discrimination gives way to such assertions being put forward to begin with. Did you misunderstand that? I am labeling a behaviour, not an intention. I accept everything you say about people and the nature of prejudice, but it doesn't change much. I'm not talking about people like you. Perhaps I should have made it clearer at the time, but meh. *shrugs*
CivilisedHumanity (Wei Jin) You're ignoring the fact that Ellie IS gay. No matter what argument you put forward, it doesn't change the fact that the entire production team intended for her to be gay. It's foreshadowed to the point where they may as well have just flashed the word "GAY" across the cutscenes in massive letters. It's not ambiguous, and it's not left open to artistic interpretation. So what's left? Prejudice, and a handful of people who just enjoy pulling pop culture apart piece by piece and exploring all avenues until the fun has been sucked from the bones of it. There are WAY too many "Ellie's not gay!" voices out there to put it down to the latter. You can probably pick my arguments apart here because I'm not the best at intellectual discussion. I get mad and make dramatic, often spurious, statements before thinking them through. But the bones of what I'm saying is true. There is a massive homophobic sentiment behind the majority of the debates on this topic and that's plain for anyone to see.
Like I said, I can make arguments for both sides. I am NOT ignoring the "fact" that Ellie is gay. In fact I have ACCEPTED it. What I'm saying is that there is possibility that her sexuality may change.
But of course, I don't like arguing. You have your views, which you will hold on to death. As Dale Carnegie said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". You're gonna hold on to your views, and I respect that, and I will leave it here.
-Jin
Here's a bit for your video comparison of Children of Men/The Wasteland if you ever do it: talk about the parallels between the scene at 7:18 and the cover of Pink Floyd's Animals album and therefore the themes and content of the song lyrics within.
Amazing video, keep them coming you're doing great!
Thanks man! :D
Why do all your videos make me tear up?
I can’t love this video more!! You’re a cool dude
"Pull my finger" *Pop!* 😂😂😂
I'm not crying. You are!
Regardless of any official statements made by Naughty Dog, I don't think Ellie is necessarily gay, or rather I don't think its the right word or concept to be applied here. And, I don't think it matters. In the environment Ellie grew up in, all sense of love/happiness was fleeting. She explains through, optional dialogue in The Last of Us, and the main story of Left Behind, that she was raised in an orphanage/military-prep-school, after her parents passed, which seemed to separate housing arrangements by gender. meaning that she spent a lot of time with and getting close, and emotionally attached, to Riley. Ellie put it best, when she was screaming at Joel, at the house in the woods, when she said, "Everyone I have cared for has either died, or left me..!" In Ellie's world when she forms a bond or attachment or love, of any form, for/with another human being, she clings to that for dear life, as it is, quite literally, the only thing she has left, and her only reason to go-on living. That said, I don't think Ellie necessarily prefers one gender over the other. Because in her world, she doesn't have that luxury. So, I wasn't surprised when Ellie Kissed Riley, nor did I care or think anything of it. I was simply happy that she was able to feel those feelings toward someone at all, given all the shit she's had to endure.
So, while I'm sure I won't have the last words on this topic, and I hope I don't, I want you all to ask yourself a, very important, question: Does it actually matter if Ellie is Gay, straight, bi, etc.?
Well said
What happened to the planned comparison mentioned in this video?
Awesome video man, definitely gotta check out that movie now.
Thanks, man! :D You really should see it if you haven't already. The experience is made even better if you're a fan of TLoU.
SolePorpoise will do man, I can easily say Last of Us is in my top 3 favorite games ever so I'll probably like this movie. I have seen the Road which also looks like it inspired Last of Us as well.
the choice of Joel in the ending of LoU in some ways i believe mirrors the choice of Kain in the Soul Reaver series to not do "the right thing" and sacrifice himself because some prophecy (Kain as the scion of balance would restore the pillars and thus the balance of the world).
In the ending, It was Just a hipothesis. and a lie made by tradition (the Elder god and his Wheel of time manifestation).
Gosh I love these videos.
I think one thing you forgot about the whole Ellie wont reproduce on her own is that the ideal of the cure in the first one was to cut out the brain and study it. Which would kill her. Sure the ideal of reproduction might help but its not a guarantee since you are getting genes from both the mother and father. Or like in the movie 9 months later. (The zombie movies based in England. There was 21 days later then x months later) The infection started spreading again because one of the main characters wife ended up being immune to the infection and survived. He went in to kiss her and got infected and therefore started spreading the infection again.
Hey, just saying, you got talent and an eye for analysis, I ran into your channel completely by mistake,
but I think I'm staying.
Children of men is such an underappreciated film.
Now that i watched it I agree with your points but you know what gets to me? The fact that even though what Joel did was out of love, it wasn't necessarily the right thing. So basically the last of us shows you that humans -unlike animals- don't always do whats the best for their survival throughout the years rather they do what their heart wishes. No matter what. Thanks for the vid loved it.
Hey man!
That's essentially what I'm taking away from this. It seems to me that there's a mystical element in our ability to love. I don't mean mystical in the sense that it's supernatural, but in the sense that it inspires wonder and awe. And like I said, it's what's left after the end of the world. It's a really inspiring message-at least, it is to me! :D Thanks again man!
Name of song at the start?
+Matt D'Elia ua-cam.com/video/cMN8Y46gZaw/v-deo.htmlm40s :D
That ending bit hit too close to home
6:48 “the way to cure his infertility is through seeking the infinity gauntlet”
Grant Voegtle Sent me! And I can say that I really love your videos man!
Sipher Thank you so much! :D
u r doing good job!thank u
Can you explain what Riley lashed out on Ellie for maybe
Amazing video
made me cry.
Is this your final The last of us video,if it's not please make more??!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haha well thanks for your support!
I don't know if this is my last video for The Last of Us because every time I play it I pick up on new things. But because I want to give you guys all of my arguments and evidence at once, it leaves me with longer but fewer videos. So to answer your question, I'm not saying never... but this is *probably* all I have in me until we get a sequel. :( Sorry!
But again, thanks for the support! :D
idk how we changed but nowadays people forgot that your spirit have to be fed too. you'll see millions of views on some crap on youtube and videos like this where your mind is fed are getting less views. thx for your videos.
they used to make movies for the mind nowadays it's just for the eyes
DAEMON33 Thank *you* for your support! :)
Thank you.
thank you
very interesting video, thanks to grant voegle for taking me here :)
My personal opinion is ellie is homosexual, the kiss was just out of pure love to the only person in the world she cares about. The last of us and the left behind are just so incredibly well made games, that I think Iam going to play through them again, now for the 11th time....
thank you man
fuckin beautiful man
I believe Ellie is bi, in another way, I believe she loved Riley and that physicality of it wasn't even part of the story yet by that point. Like @Omar Ali said the kiss was there to show how significant the loss of Riley is to Ellie, but it is love regardless. But labeling her as gay doesn't do anything, in fact it undermines the connection that Ellie has to Riley by making it seem as if Ellie's feelings WERENT complicated by her love of Riley, because it surely was very confusing to Ellie. LGBT is all about identifying and understanding one's own orientation and it's not as simple as physical attraction. I think seeing it as young love is what's most important because it then entices you to consider how rare any love would be in TLOU world, plus how important her trust is to Ellie and to see that Riley truly cares by her coming back and telling her the truth out of her own choice.
in my opinion, I don't see Ellie and Riley in a romantic relationship. I see them more as friends basically. I usually have a couple of reasons why I don't particularly ship certain people, it's either I don't see them that way or I ship them with someone else. I started shipping Ells with my oc months after left behind was released. as for Neil's confirmation, I'm not gonna buy into that easily. ND does lie sometimes and we have no idea what could possibly happen in part 2. I am aware that there is gonna be a new lgbt character in part 2 but we shouldn't automatically assume Ellie with have a girlfriend. also in my opinion, as well as a friend of mine, the kiss scene felt kinda forced. so while I still have negativity about that scene, about Ells possibly being gay, (note, I'm not homophobic) a part of me just doesn't care. it hasn't changed anything really on how I feel about Ellie. She's still my favorite character and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in part 2.
btw, never noticed the whole pictures thing. good catch.
epic video
why am i crying?
I feel like the commentary regarding evolution is a little off-base. First off, evolution doesn't just involve directly passing your genes on to another generation, it also involves ensuring the survival and procreation of organisms with similar genes, so family or one's social community. Hence Joel helping Ellie is not contrary to the driving force behind evolution. We evolved to care about those around us because it helps other humans pass on their genes, particularly those who are close to us.
Additionally, watching this video was the first time I ever considered whether Ellie's immunity could be passed down to her children. Her immunity is framed with respect to studying her to bring her immunity to everyone, not with the idea that her kin will be the lone survivors on the planet.
everyone's all concerned about how Ellie is gay and I'm just over here like "does that funky song they're dancing to exist in the real world? Is that a real song or was it just made for the game?"
holy shit you're good
Even if she is gay she can still realize that she can save the human race by having children.
YES!!
I was thinking about Ellie's kiss after I played left behind I think she's not gay but she knows she won't be able to see Riley, which is her best friend for along time and she did it without thinking about it
Anyways awesome content! Keep it up!
Would kiss your friends, even your best friend, in the mouth if you thought you would never see them ever again?
Neil Druckmann and Ashley Johnson have both confirmed that Ellie is gay.
I don't think Left Behind is too good for DLC. I personally find the very concept of "too good for DLC" ridiculous. You might as well say "This is too good for a home console" in the first couple of generations, and I have little doubt that the backlash against DLC will seem just as ridiculous once companies figure out that using DLC and micropayments _well_ is good for everyone.
It's a shame what they did whit the sequel, to put it lightly.
I don't want to believe Ellie is gay because I don't want her to be gay. lol, I am a very simple guy.
I have a reasonable explanation for the kiss, it was there because this was the only way they could show how significant the loss of Riley is to Ellie. I won't be broken if my best friend died, however I would if my wife or girlfriend did. They just put huge emphasis on that relationship, it had to be a love story to make sense.
She's gay. Get over it.
***** The fact that people have different opinions? Consider it done. I'm over it. Voila! Now, back to Ellie. Neil Druckmann said she's gay. Ashley Johnson says she's gay. All of the foreshadowing within the game itself points to Ellie being gay. SolePorpoise says she's gay! She's definitely gay. Gay as gay as gay can be. I'm totally over the fact that other people have different opinions. I'm over the fact that no matter how much you shovel truth into peoples' mouths, they'd still rather spit it out and eat shit instead. So, are you over Ellie being gay yet?
***** I've read a thousand of these comments. Half of it is just plain incorrect, and the rest is grasping at straws. Gay does exist in a pandemic world. It exists in every world you can imagine. Before civilization, during civilization, after it. In the animal world, there is gay. Gay is here to stay, the end of society as we know it won't change that. We don't know that she "only had Riley" - actually we know that to be false as well. Riley and Ellie speak of the other kids at the beginning of Left Behind. I'm sure there were plenty of boys in the Military School, wouldn't ya think? Regardless, her age makes no mind because you see, we can be confused at any age. And furthermore, even THAT isn't the point, because you and others who espouse this theory would never have said "Wait a second guys, maybe Ellie is gay and just confused, she doesn't REALLY like boys, she's only 14" if Sam had been her love interest. Do you see the fallacy? I hope so.
***** It may be that you don't like labeling sexuality. If that is the case, then I can respect that man. That's cool with me. More than cool, I actually like the idea. But if you're just going to prop up the "she's-just-confused-they're-only-friends-she's-too-young-it's-the-apocalypse-and-gayness-died-with-society" bullshit that the homophobes pulled out of their asses last February then you need to reevaluate.
***** SolePorpoise Almost a year after its release and still the debates rage. Whatever side of the fence you choose to sit, I think we can all agree; this is one hell of a game and DLC.
I don't think people don't like Ellie being gay because of some "future of humanity" point. In the better case they don't like it because such a big character part was not something they could see in the base game and with it being "just the part of the dlc" makes it feel shoe-horned (regardless if it makes sense in the DLC itself, as the DLC is just an addon). In other cases they are just butthurt bigots who don't like them homosexuals.
That said, I personally didn't feel the humanity deserves to be saved, in the LoU universe. What Joel did was bad in my opinion... but not because he may have destroyed the humanity chance to survive. It was bad only because he lied to her. The ending of LoU has some problems - the biggest one for me is the fact, that even though they try to portrait Joel's action as bad... the context still makes Fireflies worse, because they didn't give Ellie the chance to choose. She might as well know what awaits her, but they kind of took her righ from being unconscious to the operating table to kill her. She wasn't given a choice. And in this moment Joel's action was the right one - he saved her from the future that was thrusted upon her.
...And then he lied to her. But you know what, while it does not excuse him in the least, from the last exchange before the credits I think... she knew. And she CHOSE to accept it.
"think how much of a big deal this is" it isn't, sorry but them making a fake website didn't make my experience better lol
maybe this game is try to remind us "don't fuck up with the world we have now.. its fucked just enough". The Last of Us, huh...?! so fucking annoying..
gay women can still have babies the old fashioned way
Honestly, I like your analysis, but the DLC was very weak. The story runs mainly on assumed empathy for Riley, but the player has no reason to care about her other than what Ellie has said about her. DLC itself was fun during combat, but again, the non-combat sections, while not downright terrible, don't offer much in terms of replayability.
And main reason I'm reluctant to call Ellie gay is because there's nothing in the story (main or DLC) that suggests she is gay. Big deal, she kissed a girl. That happens all the time. Guys have kissed guys. Doesn't mean they're gay. She's way too young to even know yet, honestly.
Also, they should've shown how Riley died, but for some odd reason, they didn't show that. That was like, the entire point of the DLC.
All in all, the DLC is okay, not great. Glad you took something away from it to make this video though, nice work. Great channel!
Sure, Ellie kissing Riley doesn't necessarily mean that she is gay. But, had Riley been a boy and Ellie kissed him, everyone would assume that she is straight (although, obviously no one would say "ellie is straight" after seeing it, because of heteronormativity). So, there is a double standard in what you said. I called out that Ellie was romantically into Riley about halfway into the DLC, so, to me, her being gay or possibly bisexual was pretty clear.
As to Riley's death, I didn't feel that how she died was very important. The DLC is about how Ellie was infected and not how Riley died. And the focus was much more on characterizing Ellie than anything else.
Lol we already know how she was infected... showing it provides no closure. We don't know how Riley died, that's the interesting part.
Sorry, but what did it add to Ellie's character? I can't even think of anything. We knew she cared for Riley. We knew she had to dig deep to save Joel. The DLC doesn't say anything that we didn't know already.
They could've spent more time fleshing out Riley (maybe we would have had to save Riley or something or Riley saves us). There were no stakes and it was completely boring. Or maybe we lose Riley in the mall... honestly the whole thing was just underwhelming.
Ellie being gay adds nothing because being gay or straight doesn't matter in the first place.
Oh, I didn't mean that Ellie being gay was what was being characterized. Sure, her sexuality is a bulletpoint, I guess, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about how the DLC shows how she has changed from when she wasn't infected to when she was saving Joel.
When Ellie was with Riley, she was much more reliant on Riley and often followed what she said or went along with her. This is shown through the scenes like the mask scene, the dancing scene, or even the opening scene when Riley compels Ellie to go to the mall. This pretty much juxtaposes with the scenes when she's trying to save Joel in which she is self-reliant. Which is interesting, because chronologically, right after that, the player controls Ellie. The DLC also shows her and Riley's ideas of what the world was like and how people were and are like.
Furthermore, as someone who is LGBT+ myself, I can attest that being gay, or bi, or trans, or whatever is actually really important to us. It makes up a huge part of our identity. I hear straight people say this a lot: "so what that she's gay or straight? it doesnt matter." Well, to you it doesn't because you're straight and you haven't had to think about this, but for someone who doesn't identify as straight, it is very important. It's much like how race plays a bigger part in the identity of a black person than a white person.
Okay... in my eyes, she acted exactly the same. She still cut a bitch and wrecked zombies. What's the difference. It's not like she was timid or scared or anything in the DLC...
All those scenes you're talking about are barely noticeable. She has the exact same personality, she didn't grow by the end of the DLC at all.
"The DLC also shows her and Riley's ideas of what the world was like and how people were and are like. "
I don't know where you're getting this from. We didn't interact with any other characters besides Ellie and Riley. We were shown more old stuff. We weren't hanging out around the school or going through life on a strict schedule. It just felt like another level where we look at stuff and are supposed to think "oh cool... history/the past!" Eh. Don't agree.
You're bringing up moments that, maybe for you were impactful, but for me it was just like, eh. Okay. Thanks for telling us the emotions we're supposed to feel instead of showing us. Boring. But that's fine.
On the race thing, I was literally just thinking that. I'm Nigerian/black. I don't care about being black. It's really not a big deal. I'm glad being represented made you feel better, but it doesn't make the game or story better. MLK said judge people by their character and not their skin. And by extension, religion, gender, orientation etc. That goes across all groups so we can all relate. Labels don't connect people. Just my opinion. That's why I wasn't like "this game would've been way better if Joel was black". None of that matters. It's character. That's all I'm saying.
Glad you enjoyed the DLC. I was bored by it :/
eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ to each their own. You're right. It must be a taste thing. For me, Ellie did feel like she grew and I was personally immensely satisfied with the DLC.
And I don't really give a fuck about representation. I can identify with whatever character is onscreen so long as they are written well, but I was just trying to justify why being LGBT+ does matter to people. I am really irked when people just dismiss the actual importance of a character being lgbt. To me, it is important for Ellie that she is lgbt, and it is important for the game to convey that aspect of her personality, because it is important to lgbt people that they personally are lgbt. I don't really know if I am explaining myself very well, but whatever. I like when characters are more fleshed out.
Gay means you like boys lesbian means you like girls.
Get right bro
"Being gay" isn't even a thing. Homosexuality is something you do, not something you are. Anymore than someone can "be vegetarian" just because they only eat vegetables. You can certainly call it that and many do in a pathetic search for identity based on actions, but the correct term is 'choosing to eat only vegetables' or 'choosing to engage romantically only with the same sex.'
nope, being gay is not a choice. being attracted to someone of the same gender as yourself is not an active choice you make. no straight person chose to be straight; they just are.
The Neon Pogo Dancer Yeah that's the politically correct stance to take in the United States alright. It isn't true, but it certainly gets people to nod solemnly and give you approving looks for how progressive you are.
Insomnant, haha thats pretty funny dude. cause, um, i am gay. and i never chose to be gay. in fact, had i had a choice, i would choose to be straight, because my life would be much, much easier. have you ever even talked to a gay person before?
The Neon Pogo Dancer Of course I have. I've worked with quite a few. And I do feel bad for you, not in a condescending way or anything. But you live in a society that tells you that this is something inescapable, unchangeable, unalterable, an immutable fact about who you are. The reason for this was to push acceptance of homosexuality onto a culture based on Christian morality. But it's very harmful for those like yourself who've grown up being taught that your sexuality is hardcoded onto you.
It's the same sort of evil as how blacks used to be told that they would never amount to anything, that the best they could hope for is being slaves because their inferiority is part of who they are.
im not saying that homosexuality is "hardcoded into me;" im saying it just isn't a choice. and i did not grow up being taught that being gay isn't a choice as i was brought up in a homophobic household. if it is, indeed, as you said, a choice, then would i become straight if i just tried really hard? because that makes no sense to me.
and also, thats a non-sequitur. you made quite the logical leap between telling people that sexuality isn't a choice and telling slaves that they are inferior. those two have little to no connection. i think the reason you made that jump is because you see gay people as inferior to straight people. am i correct?
In this worls Ellie's potential Gayness,is a negative.