OTH: The Last of Us on Human Nature (Feat. Grant Voegtle)
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- On this episode of Oh The Humanities I take on the critically acclaimed game The Last of Us. And even if you just played The Last of Us Remastered you're still in luck! This analysis works for that, too!
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HUGE thanks to Grant Voegtle for his contribution to this video. His video link: • The Last of Us Changed...
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This video is a masterpiece! Not only did you further my understanding of the characters, but you also furthered my understanding of man. Joel was neither right or wrong with his decision he was just human. He needed Ellie to survive, to keep fighting and to continue on with his life without feeling empty or robbed again. I believe that the most "right" rather than wrong end to the game would have been letting Ellie decide her own fate, but Joel and the fireflies feared too much that she wouldnt side with them and that they would lose what they wanted or arguably needed. Humans are complex and this game does an absolutely amazing job of showing it. We love, we need, and we often make choices based on those feelings. Is morality important, of course it is but in a world where youve been denied those luxuries you have to act on love or hate or fear. Joel is made human, and thats why this game is so captivating and beautiful and true! Thank you for such a thought provoking and satisfying view to the ending of a phenomenal, life changing game. I will take what ive learned on with me through my life :) Thank you
Mary El Nelligar Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for the support and the extremely kind words! :D
SolePorpoise No problem man! Keep up the great vids. This game and this video have really opened my eyes about a lot of things and have impacted me greatly. Thank you.
Mary El Nelligar I agree, this video truly is a masterpiece
The fight for survivial is if anything just another form of zombification. Whether infected or not, both humans and infected act equally grotesque, and at what cost?
Edit: Also, seeing the childrens drawing of Ishmael as their protectors affected my like nothing else. It wasn't drawn out, overly dramtic or complex, yet it hit a chord like nothing else has. All it took was one photograph. That was it. Wonderful visual storytelling.
What frustrated me, was that the decision was not Joel's or the fireflies to make. It was Ellie's! The humane thing to do in that situation would have been to wait for Ellie to wake up, inform her of the implications the surgery would have and then accept whatever she decides.
The fact that the fireflies were about to perform the surgery without Ellie's consent, justifies Joel's actions for me:)
yeah. Guess both sides were in too much of a rush, though....
Ellie also would have absolutely gone through with the surgery.
Ryan Olivier But, because of her guilt, Ellie would have gone through the surgery. That isn't any better than them making the choice. Guilt would have made the choice for her, not Ellie.
What bothers me the most about this decision is that that isn't how you'd go about making a cure. You don't kill the only source of a cure. You test their blood for starters, and exhaust all avenues. Ellie just arrived at the facility, "Oh, lets kill her straight away. We know what we're doing even though we're not running extensive testing which would normally takes years in fully funded facilities. No, no, we good". To kill the source of a cure you'd have to be 100% sure it would work because by killing Ellie you only get one shot at it, there are no do overs. Killing them is a no-brainer since they're not smart enough to realise the flaw in their own plan so Ellie's sacrifice would not be worth it with such a low possibility of success.
Tersch
I feel like that's en excuse to avoid the hard decision that the game presents to you. The game's infection is unlike any here, the lore could decide that the Fireflies were wrong (a la MGS4 "the info that we found that the Patriots were dead was a bunch of bull" type of retcon) but that would deeply hurt the narrative. It's this strong because of that final decision, and taking that away because of our inability to let go would be doing ourselves a great disservice in self-exploration.
Exceptional video dude, very thought provoking. I found myself going back and listening to different parts a second or third time to fully gather and understand the points. I loved how you came to a conclusion on the subject too. Morality will always be highly debatable but your points were very constructive in coming to that conclusion. It's incredible how stimulating The Last of Us is and the array of ideas it presents. These videos only reinforce how special The Last of Us really is so you should feel proud of your contribution. Thanks for making the video!
Thanks so much for saying that, man! That's a really nice thing to say! :)
A short way to explain The Last Of Us, the world took something Joel, so Joel took something from the world.
T. V. No it's not like that
T. V. i would say its more like humanity took something from joel, so joel took something from humanity
Better said :)
Bruh, Joel didn't have time to analyze all that. He only wanted Ellie. That's why he saved her
aashrith madagiri clearly you're missing the point of the story itself then.
Something that I think is interesting to think about, is if Ellie was immune to the virus, and if she had kids in the future would they also be immune?
Totally! It's something I talk about in my analysis of The Last of Us: Left Behind. If you played that game, make sure to check out that video too because it sounds like it'd be right up your alley. :)
Darth Vader Unfortunately for the humans (once again), she wouldn't be interested in breeding with a human male.
Nick J u kno that bisexuality is a thing right
Franz Roth She seemed to be much more of a lesbian type though.
Nick J The general consensus is that she's isn't gay, nor is she bisexual. Nor is she straight, really. Riley was somebody she loved, regardless of her gender. In a world starved of affection, she had strong feelings for Riley. Her best friend. Possibly her only real friend.
There wasn't much of humanity left in this world, definitely not enough to sacrifice Ellie without 100% guarantee of successful cure development. I was actually satisfied with Joel's choice. In these circumstances i would have done the same.
Spirit1515 yes that what makes u human you care for thr ones you love there wasnt even any indicator that itd work anyways
I agree completely
Also how much vaccine could they make from just Ellie? How would they distribute it around when it took them almost a year to travel around America? Not to mention there is no definite evidence that the surgery would have worked. Joel was right.
And to top it off, that's not how you'd go about making a vaccine.
This is why the last of us is the absolute best game of the last few decades. Probably of all time
pyramidhead13579 I'd say bloodborne is a fair rival. but a slightly inferior one though
@@pablozayas815 Bloodborne is good, but it's a very different type of game so I'm not sure whether to compare them. Gameplay focus vs narrative focus is a bit hard in that regard. Both are great for different reasons, though.
Nah Bloodborne is pretty good too. Everything just works in an organic way. Plus the gameplay just makes it even better. It's just harder to comprehend.
really love your idea for this channel. You seem to have a deeper appreciation for video games than most people. Keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot for the support and the kind words! :D More's coming!
The one thing that we haven't notice is on the town of Jackson. When you first get Jackson Tommy points that they have livestock, crops, and tons of people there. I realized that when Joel and Ellie are coming in from the road and has over look Jackson with the sun shining over it. I think it mean that Jackson is the rebirth of human civilization. Why would it point this out in the game, because it what us to think about how the rest of the mankind is surviving, The Military and Fireflies fighting against each other to gain control over safe zone why mankind isn't doing anything but waiting, the hunters just killing the weak the in order to survivor. David's group eating any survivor that passes thought. But Jackson is the only group or place were people like Tommy or Maria are putting forth the effort in order to live to be human again to love, be happy and live their lives out with out fear or knowing when their going to get their last meal.
I have watched many analyses of TLOU, and this one is by far the best. Your attention to minutiae - like the "rabbit" parallels and symbolism of fire - in addition to your macroscopic observations and questions makes this video, for me, stand out from (and above) all others I have had the pleasure or displeasure (e.g. Errant Signal) of watching. Cheers and thank you for further blossoming my already astromical opinion of this beautiful work of art.
Thank you so much, that's very kind! :D
What does it mean to be human?
To embrace Empathy and Reason.
To see ourselves as individual human beings having intrinsic worth that transcends the whims, "needs", and desires of others. No one has a right to claim your life against your Will nor do you have a right to claim theirs for your selfish desires. Everyone should honor Free Will and the Supremacy of Individual human liberty...not the state, the multinational corporation, the corporate/state-run media, or any of the artificial constructs that only serve to give oligarchs a smokescreen to gather wealth and power over all others against their Will.
As for the Ending I justify it this way:
Ellie owns her life not Joel and not the Fireflies their needs are secondary and irrelevant when compared to her right to her own life in that world and the manner of its end.
If she had been asked to sacrifice herself for the greater good and chose to do so, then she has to accept that her action means Joel dies too since he can no longer survive without her.
There is no such thing as a greater good for the greater number. If others say you must die for us to live and it is immoral for you not to give up your life because the greater number demand it for their own selfish desires then they are sub-human animals who have cast aside their humanity. This is especially true if Ellie refuses to give up her life voluntarily since it is the initiation of force that defines who is Evil and who is Good.
Perhaps given the information available the uncertain hope of a cure resulting from her certain death and the knowledge that she holds Joel's life in her hands, she would refuse the argument that the individual must surrender the right to their existence to fulfill the selfish individual needs of the greater number since it is intrinsically wrong. If you decide to murder one to save the many then you are essentially proclaiming that every individual human life by itself has no value and can always be taken from you when the majority (or in the case of most human history a very rich and powerful minority) find it more useful or expedient to kill you for some tangible benefit.
This is saying that as long as members of a group are sacrificed "for the greater good" one at a time then the group itself disintegrates since the nature of group is an illusion...an artificial construct of civilized social structures. What is a group without any individuals? Without its most basic element, I argue that the group is nothing at all. It is the same here in this situation.
We may only claim the right to our own lives. If we honor the lives of all individuals belonging to humanity and do not initiate force or coercion against one another but react appropriately to defend ourselves from those who do, then we are not only civilized in accordance with what is virtuous and right according to natural values but also with what is in accord with the essential moral and ethical imperatives for the group as well. Viewed within this context, there is no contradiction between so-called artificial values (Collectivistic virtues) from Natural values (Individualistic virtues) since the group derives its core humanity from its smallest element: an individual human life.
What a ridiculously well- articulated and thought-out comment! Here I thought I was being tongue-in-cheek when I said "70,000 words or less"--you did it in 547!
I couldn't agree with you more! I actually never considered your argument about the individual making up the collective. I have to say I agree wholeheartedly.
I love that you've offered an eloquent different perspective and I want people to have healthy debate here and I don't want to imply otherwise because this is terrific. I want to defend my thesis but I think you already know what I think!
Awesome job, and thanks for the sub! :D
I'm late, but this sounds like something Ayn rand would say.... And I love it
To long Jesus Christ. But still a pretty interesting view.
ImpKnt80 cool copy and paste bro...lol anybody read all that?
sub human animals is too much. Being selfish is human too.
Hey dude - so I'll admit I've never studied Humanities in detail, but I found this whole video really interesting.
The one thing I really liked is the whole concept over Humans v Animals, or how we view other people as animals. Like with Joel and Tommy themselves - Tommy still has nightmares of the horrible things he and his brother did in the past, but as far as Joel was concerned he kept them alive. There's no place for nice guys in this world. Further to that, like you were saying about the various groups we come across, only those who take the most extreme approaches are surviving: the Hunters started off as the regular citizens who rose up and drove out the military, but now they're reduced to murdering other people and stealing from them, just to get by. They never set out to take that route, it's just how things ended up. If they hadn't gone that route, they would have died out long ago.
Same with David's group: he says to Ellie that this Winter has been 'especially harsh', so they've only turned to cannibalism recently. But as with the Hunters, if they hadn't turned to cannibalism they would have probably died out before Ellie and Joel came along. They didn't want to make that choice, but again there was no alternative. And David's comment about being 'fewer mouths to feed' was pragmatic: less people means they need to gather less food, and they can exist longer. Survival of the fittest.
You even see it in the Boston QZ at the start: the soldiers show they're willing to shoot people dead on the spot for the slightest infraction (if you try and attack one of the soldiers on the street too many times they literally shoot you dead on the spot), Fireflies or not. Less people to look after, the less people to feed = easier to maintain the quarantine. Ruthlessness exists even in the supposed 'safe' zones.
This world is not kind to 'nice' people. Joel's lived this long by being a cold, heartless bastard. Ish and his friends in the sewers tried to set up a relatively 'normal' environment for the kids they looked after, but that was doomed to failure. So does that mean Tommy's 'normal' community they're building around the Hydroelectric dam doomed to fail as well sooner or later? Who knows. Either way, the only way to survive effectively in this world is to lose your humanity, to become an animal. But Joel proves he has at least some shred of humanity when he saves Ellie at the very end, showing there is still some hope for mankind.
Just wanted to give my own thoughts on what you talked about.
(P.S On my first playthrough I shot the doctor straight away too. I was just so hyped up on what had happened leading up to it that I felt as though I couldn't just stop then and there).
That was a great video, although I ultimately disagree with your conclusion. Mainly because for me the turning point was not in the car, when we feel relief for Joel's decision (which I did), but later when he lies to her about it. In fact that second turn I felt was written to make you, the player, feel sick for having been relieved.
On that epilogue, I believe Joel begins to show that he is not quite sane, speaking of his daughter almost as if she was alive and speaking of the future as if nothing had happened, failing to acknowledge his actions. This brings another aspect into play: Joel may not have acted upon his passions, but instead acted from TRAUMA, which is an aspect you didn't discuss at all, Joel, as strong as he is, is clearly a traumatized human. And trauma can create all sorts of passions that don't necessarily fall into place with neither natural nor artificial. Passions that do not represent humanity, but instead a deviated humanity.
The fact that Ellie asks him twice about that happened, reveals us that at very least she suspect he is not telling her the truth. And the fact that she exposes her plan which shows yet another tangent which is HER humanity (arguably more moral, than Joel), contrasts starkly with his actions.
He could give in to the passion again, tell the truth, that he killed them all, that he could not live without her, ask her to forgive him, that he wouldn't stomach losing someone he cared for once more (all of which, she is hinted to suspect anyway).
Instead, having him lie again is the final nail on the coffin, I personally read him as him feeling ashamed of what he had done, his rampage, even to himself is disgusting, he is aware of his own monstrosity and his pettiness, he cowers of his deformed humanity, but decides to bite his tongue, and buries his "real" humanity.
At least that's how I read it.
That's why The Last of Us, in my opinion is one of the darkest pieces of media I have ever experienced. Still, great stuff.
Thanks for the great comment!
You're right, I didn't talk about the trauma Joel experienced but I certainly see where you're coming from. Especially when it comes to the moment Joel lied to Ellie.
It feels really uncomfortable because there's a notion that Joel doesn't respect Ellie enough to tell her the truth and make her own decision (at least, that's what I felt the first time I saw it). But, to argue from the perspective of my thesis, I think there's something to be said about honesty being an artificial virtue, and the reason he did it would have been the *very* parental reason of protecting someone he loves-a natural virtue.
With that said, there are the hard to ignore parallels between Sarah and Ellie (playing as Sarah and Ellie at the beginning and end of the game respectively, as well as when Joel carries Sarah just after the beginning of the game and again carries Ellie just before the end of the game), I think it's a decent argument to say that Joel is willing to sacrifice anything to get the second chance of fatherhood like you're saying. But I certainly can't say that's exclusive to that argument; it certainly works in the context of him seeing her as a daughter, and not only as him seeing her as his chance to be happy again.
There's validity to your perspective, especially since it triggers a discussion that I think is worth having. But you already know what I think. :)
Thanks again for the great comment! I hope it sparks some discussion.
SolePorpoise I think that comparing the beginning and end is one of the first things that people do, and that it sends a strong emotional vibe to the player, but i don't only think that he is saving Ellie because he wants a second chance at fatherhood.
Many things provoke a man's passion (e.g. Love, Fear, etc.) but another major thing which provokes it: Failure.
Man loves to get everything right, to feel superior, accomplished, but when they feel Failure, it is powerful.
Evidence of this is with Henry and his brother. Henry stated several times that he just wants to keep his brother safe but inevitably Fails to do so, as his brother is bitten and turned and then killed by Henry. Henry feels a strong sense of failure and cannot live with it, so he kills himself. Reason being is that his brother is the only thing he has been living for, besides (I think) meeting up with his family who were separated.
Henry does not want to admit his failure to the rest of his family or to himself and sees it better to off himself rather than living with it, as Joel thought of doing as well, when he said to Ellie (I hope i didn't butcher the quote) "Its not as easy as you think". when they come across a part where suicide takes place (been a while since i played the game)
Joel also senses his failure in protecting his child: Sarah,so he sees Ellie as a self-redemption pass by saving her. Its kind of like bypassing his mental failure and using Ellie as a blanket to cover up his true failure and trick his mind into thinking he did the right thing, and thus, succeeded. And i think its this mixture of Natural and artificial virtues that collide together that make up this either emotionless or hate-filled (at least for the first half of the game) man.
Spazco101 In the very last scene where Joel talks to Ellie about the emotional anchors in life that are worth fighting for, he briefly touches his watch ;)
Pretty long mate not gonna lie.
Very interesting analysis. It's great to see that there are still people out there who take the time and effort to make videos like yours and Grant's. I really enjoyed it. There'll always be different interpretations and philosophies on what the story is trying to tell us. Anyway, this definitely deserves a lot more views. For what it's worth, it's been added to my Favourites.
The short way of putting how I see it, is that humanity already killed Joel's daughter once, and he wouldn't let that happen a second time. It was not worth saving the very thing that took his daughter away. Was it the right decision, hard to say but Joel being flawed is one of the best parts of the writing for me. Absolutely powerful ending. Great video.
+Joseph Anderson sent me and I am very glad he did. It's two years late but thank you for this video!
That's awesome to hear! Thank *you*!
Great vid. I sometimes feel that to save the many is more animalistic. Seeing how bees and Ants will throw themselves into harms way to save their people, but a mother bear is many times willing sacrifice herself to save her cub. I would guess that both are natural for mankind... But both are not natural for other species... It's one or the other for animals. I guess having both makes us human. And choosing which one to side with is distinct trait. Marlene and Joel example. Who was the hero? That's the wrong question I feel. It was a Bee vs Bear argument... The bee trying only to protect the whole hive. And the mother bear protecting her cub. The stronger won.
Derek Purvis Yuc
This video was magnificent in every single way. The way that you described the essence of humanity within The Last of Us has given me an even deeper appreciation of the game and the actions taken by Joel which led to his final decision at the hospital. I have to admit, throughout the game I teared up because I felt such a strong connection to the characters and what they were going through in order to survive in a world with barely a trace of humanity left in it. I couldn't help but notice the distance between Joel and Ellie in the beginning of the game, and that to me was quite unsettling. I know that Joel was unaware of what Ellie had been through in her past at first, but as the game progressed, you couldn't help but notice the growth between the two of them and the father-daughter relationship which they had built throughout their journey together, and how they came to know each other and learn about their respective past lives and what they had been through. As for myself, while I was going on Joel's rampage to save Ellie, I didn't think of the guards and the Fireflies as people that wanted what was best for society and the world, but the fact that, they too, like the hunters, wanted to end her life, and they were just in my way of stopping that. I felt a sense of redemption and obligation for Joel, as he was able to save Ellie from the hands of the fireflies, which was something he wasn't able to do for his daughter, Sarah, and the countless times which Ellie had saved his life on their journey together. And even though it may not have been the right choice for society, it was the right choice for Joel as he is able to rescue the one he loves and is closest to in this inhumane world. A decision which I would make as well. And again, amazing video. Superbly written and well done. I wish you the best in your use of humanities. This was the first video of yours I have ever watched by the way. Subscribed.
A fantastic analysis of what is probably one of the most narratively sophisticated game ever made. There are just so many ways to read the ending, which is what makes it such a brilliant piece of writing; people will be arguing about it for years to come, which is a mark of its genius.
So accurate! I loved that last part especially discussing Joel's character from hero to human, very impactful bro keep it up :D
SuperSaiyan3985 Thank you!
I'm definitely keeping at it. I have something I'm really proud of in the works right now and it'll be up in the next few weeks! :D Thanks, man!
SolePorpoise Awesome can't wait XD
My two favorite topics fused into one and actually talked about other than with myself to a friend while we're drunk on several occasions; Philosophy and Videogames. Thank you SO MUCH for these. Ive been sharring your videos in my Discord in hopes they spread so you can make more and better videos. Keep this up my friend. :)
+Gurtington you're my hero!
Well written and insightful. Nice job man. The best comprehensive study on humanity with regards to the last of us.
As if I needed something else to love about the game and make me feel connected... This was brilliant.
Yeah, i know the feeling. I love this game too much allready...
I've studied biology and psychology for years. I loved this. Well done sir. This game expresses so many ideals and emotions that I feel it's timeless. David, for me is the character that drove the climax. He pushed Joel and Ellie's relationship to a new level and showed such a strong viewpoint through a charismatic filter you can't help but agree on some level. I'll stop before I ramble but I must say that you sir are a badass.
One more thing, the novella Heart of Darkness by joseph Conrad has some great parallels concerning civility and savagery. Which is what the question "is this moral" deals with. If you haven't read it I would recommend adding it to your winter reading list.
Valkyrie 887 I absolutely love your perspective on the characters. As far as Heart of Darkness goes, I have read it but not in several years. That's a great connection so you definitely gave me the itch to crack it open again, though.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment and the support! :D
Damn, son! This has got to be the best video essay I have yet seen for tlou. I was sorta lukewarm on it when I finally experienced it a few months back. But thankfully you sorted organized and even elevated many of the most salient themes from the text in a brief, digestable format. Bravo! I will now think more fondly of this games story
Hm. I never thought much about the fact that the fungus appeared naturally, and was not some human science experiment gone wrong. Now that I think about, though... Wow. The themes become that much clearer. Great analysis overall!
This and GrantV's video is as high quality as the game itself.
As if the game wasn't making me think and appreciate a lot of thing I didn't knew was existed in me, you two made it ten times more. Thank you
For me the giraffe scene was more than this. It was in this world of chaos, there’s finally peace. There’s finally some humanity. The giraffe scene is WAY more than just nature conquering all, it’s a moment of relief. The fact that you’ve been playing for a LONG time with no humanity, no love, no justice, yet here we are. With the hope that someday? We may get back to normal.
I saw a video about the ending of TLOU and one of the reasons Joel saved Ellie was because he knew that humanity had already learned how to survive, and they are surviving, so why let her die for something redundant that would probably end up causing more conflict
This video influenced me greatly. I'm happy that I was able to find it again.
Crazy how well I remember this specific video after not watching it for almost 5 years.
It's really stuck with me.
You missed the hospital bit, you don’t need to kill the doctors, you can walk straight past them unimpeded...
I was stunned to discover this, an example of the masterpiece this game was. The darkest Easter egg there ever was lol and really makes you think, we all *assumed* they had to die.
Great take! Love this game. The strength of The Last of Us is how they show through a personal story a reflection of what humanity is as a whole. I see it more as character game and the force of nature more like a secondary theme. But is great that you saw it like this. Because your video is the proof that this games has so many layers and each one is treated as equally important ( Sorry for my english)
Damn, just damn....one of the best analysis videos i ha e seen so far, though i only study GCSE (UK) level sociology i totally enjoyed this video, subbed and liked, keep up the great work! :D
teeboh99 Thank you! :D I'm thrilled you enjoyed it!
Something else noteworthy about the ending is how the journey has affected Ellie and Joel individually. Joel starts off cold and distant, wanting nothing to do with Ellie--while she is naive and lively. In the final chapters of the game, their roles switch. Joel has great concern for Ellie and repeatedly tries to make small talk with her, while Ellie has become detached and tired.
Had the fireflies merely asked Ellie if she wanted to go through with the operation, I wholeheartedly believe she would have done it. It will be interesting to see how their relationship develops as we approach The Last of Us 2.
As a student majoring in philosophy and a general BA in humanities - thank you. I studied a lot of the concepts you mentioned in the video in depth and I love the way you applied it to this amazing game.
SimplyMayaBeauty No, thank *you* for all of your continued support! :D
...#GoHumanitiesMajors!
#totally
Oh my fucking god, what a video! I found myself totally lost in your analysis.
The game NEEDED this report. Thank you for creating this! Your work, together with Grant's, makes The Last of us what it is now, and helps increasingly many people understand the meaning from behind the game.Thank you!
Mihai Krieger Thank *you*! :D
Side note: In an interview with Neil Druckmann, he speaks about Tess wanting to take Ellie as far as she needs to go because she wants redemption, a way back from all the things she has done.
With joel, Neil said Joel feels as though he can't get that redemption.
Theres more to it I can't remember off the top of my head but yeah if you haven't already go check it out
I also found the last scene more potent since it was the first time in the game you played as Ellie with Joel being nearby and not in a coma of sorts.. It made you feel more distant from Joel, in fact I kept thinking a sense of mistrust after the events that transpired in the hospital.
After all we've been through...Everything that I've done, it can't be for nothing
an amazing video for the Best game of all time....
Thank you Naughty dog for creating a masterpiece
The Last Of Us
I really enjoyed this. One thing I think would add an incredible dimension to your analysis is this: mankind IS nature, as much as any other part of nature, and what we're seeing here is a reminder to humans that this is the case and that we're mistaken to draw even a faint, ghostly line between humans and nature.
It’s a crime that only 85k people have viewed this video. Very truly impressive work product; congratulations! Thank you for the incredibly high caliber content.
Right outside the room where Ellie was, I used my listen mode to spot any other guy I hadn't killed yet but when I noticed a smaller outline lying on a bed with the familiar little cross on top I ran and opened those doors and saw the 3 doctors. After all the killing I went through I didn't think twice about it and pulled out my flamethrower and burned all of them to death. I think I really did let all of those passions out with that flamethrower because I really did hated those doctors for what they were about to do
Using a flamethrower in there does seem dangerous though.
Now we just need neil druckmann to retweet this amazing video so it can hit 200k
Haha what I would give for that to happen!
Brilliant with a few piercing arguments. Very well done, man.
2:55 in one of the concept art drawings, that was showing the outbreak and people running away, there was a movie theatre marquis that had the movie title "Girrafic Park"
First off, awesome video. Second, I have to say thanks for the discussion on David. Through it I was finally able to put into words why I absolutely HATE the "Chaos is the natural order" type of antagonists that tend to show up in these wasteland settings.
Thank you very much for this amazing video. You can thank MaverickTen for letting me notice it as not many people did notice this video.
The only thing I need to say is I love the point you made on the very end of the video. And I absolutely agree. Mankind won't make it, but humanity will.
Thank you again.
One of the most interesting videos I have watched in a while. Last of Us has been a great part of my memories from video games and the fact that I'm thinking about studying psychology in the future made it even more interesting for me. I never even thought about most of the things shown on the video, even when I had already done a lot of thinking about the human nature of the characters and their actions. Liked and subscribed
Thanks man! You're awesome! :D
I had already watched Grant's video analysis, and came to a conclusion of what The Last of Us meant to me, but you enhanced what I already knew while also touching on some deep moral ideas that I had never thought of. It is quite difficult to explain what The Last of Us meant to me and if I tried I would have to write an essay, but I have almost the same opinion as you and Grant. Thanks for the Awesome video!
Amazing analysis. But what really got me was the comparison to the rabbit in the beginning of the winter chapter and at the end of the chapter when David tells Ellie "run little rabbit, run". Never noticed that!
Thank you for making this amazing video. I was at first worried your analysis would take apart the story piece by piece in a way that would make me see it differently, but instead this has only made me love it that much more. Great video! :D
Torch bearers of humanity - wow. Nicely done!! Thank you for this awesome review.
I swear at 22:35 it's like Joel and turned and looked at us the players with desperation in his eyes. It gave me chills.
At 22:36 is what I meant to say.
Those last few moments sent a chill up my spine. Well done sir.
So you don't think other animals can express passion, or compassion for their society? Elephants are a prime counter argument in that.
Great video and review on The Last of Us and Human Nature! High quality content too! This really brings home on the real issues we do have as human beings. It's amazing how a videogame can actually give us so many different feelings and thoughts, especially if it's analysed with enough thought and consideration. I've never played a game that is this thought-provoking and emotionally-impactful, and am glad that this game has opened me to various thoughts and perceptions towards human nature. Lastly, I would like to thank you for your contribution of your valuable analyses, inputs, opinions, and efforts that come together into creating this review and also worthy addition to the content related to The Last of Us.
Wow! Thanks so much for all of the kind words! :D I truly appreciate it and I'm humbled when you say I'm contributing to TLoU's content. I had no idea the community was this amazing and thoughtful when I started this project so it's really an honor to think I can offer anything to the conversation.
Thanks for all of the support, man! :D
Thank god stumpleupon took me here, you deserve so much more for this quality stuff
Thanks so much, man! :D That's a really flattering compliment! It's awesome to know where you found this, too, so thanks for that info.
More videos like this and my video on Mass Effect are coming but it takes a *really* long time to do research so don't give up on me! :D Thanks for the sub and share! I won't let you down!
I'm not sure why this video was recommended today for the first time since I've been watching TLoU vids for years now, but I'm glad I finally saw it!
Saving Ellie is the moral choice AND the best choice for all humanity.
Ellie is the only known person who's immune. If this immunity can be passed along to her descendants, then all she has to do is have a few children and Natural Selection would take over and make Ellie the Mother of a New Human Race, forever immune to the cordyceps. A vaccine, on the other hand, would merely kill the only immune person and use that to keep alive people who would otherwise die because they haven't adapted to the new conditions! That would be a waste.
I'm not a big one for commenting on videos but I just wanted to say thank you for such a great video. Such a welcome thought out and presented analysis. The Last of Us really is a game that has a way of getting under your skin. Certainly one of the most important games ever made in my opinion. Thanks again.
SilentSte Thank *you* for deciding in favor of making this comment! :) I couldn't agree more with you more-The Last of Us is one of the defining games for its story and story-telling.
Thanks for the kind words and the support.
To help everyone feel less guilty about not letting them make a cure in the game, I say that you made the correct decision to save Elly. If you really think about it she is an example of co exciting with that virus, I think with time people would have adapted to it with out needing a cure. Plus a lot of people(in real life) are evolution crazy so I don't see why, the game characters didn't think we could just evolve with the virus.
incredible, and great video. So much has been revealed to me it will probably effect my life and choices for years to come. It also showed me one of the reasons why i was universally unhappy for years before i started making more passionate choices. I was "the perfect man" always logical and always choosing the way most aligned with "good sense". This deviation from natural ethics towards artifical ones made me break myself.
You and the guys who made the game both my my eternal gratitude.
Phenomenal video! The Stephen Crane quote is an aspect or an angle I didn't realize applied to this game. Good stuff man!
+Peter Vandenberg Thanks so much man!
Fantastic video. I appreciate how you focused on some of the more poignant themes of the game that you don't really see discussed as often.
3 minutes in and im just sitting here geting my mind blown by this guys words and calming voice
Just found your channel and I love it. Love the music , love the narration, love the arguments that you do . It is a delight and so much food for thought
An amazing video indeed. Really makes me think. Funny when I went in with Ellie on the table I didn't hesitate killing all 3 doctors, this is the first game that I had such an emotional connection with a video game character and how dare they try and take that from me. I am on my 3rd play through right now and watching your and grants videos are making me look at the game differently than my last two. It's amazing how much detail they put into this game and how much you can find. In short thanks and subscribed.
How does this only have 760 views?! Very well done. I like how you discussed competing moral theories obviously at play in the story. I also was relieved when I saw Ellie in the back of the truck. Never thought about how much of a tell that was, but my opinion was the same anyway.
Main issue I have here:
You ASSUME the Fireflies, a group we've only seen be TOTAL fuck-ups to this point, can manage a cure. The only other doctor of theirs we've seen is one who was dumb enough to get bit by a mokey HE INFECTED
No, saving Ellie is moral on that alone, that group was clueless and likely would have failed, killing humanities possible last shot
Amazing video. Loved how you brought up Natural Virtues vs Artificial Virtues and completely agree that Joel's decision of saving Ellie was one of a natural and almost instinctual trait. I feel that if he lets go of Ellie, it will be impossible for him to find another thing in this post-apocalyptic world to fight/live for.
In saying this, I feel that the most morally correct thing to do would be to let Ellie go. This is only due to the knowledge that Ellie would be more than happy to be the cure for humanity. The knowledge that Ellie freely chose and wanted to sacrifice herself for the chance of finding a cure.
It is only with this consent that I find Joel's decision immoral as he chooses himself over Ellie.
I feel in this world that nobody can judge the decisions of others. They are all just doing what they need to in order to survive. For Joel's case, in order for him to survive, he needs Ellie to survive and would literally sacrifice the whole world for her survival. The only flaw in this is that he knew that Ellie wanted to be the cure for humanity and that's where I see Joel's decision as wrong. Necessary for his own survival but selfish as he chooses himself over Ellie's freedom.
True love is the ability to sacrifice oneself for another. Joel's mentality isn't wanting what's best for Ellie but rather what is best for himself and doing what he needs to do to survive which I respect.
What I don't respect is how Joel lies to Ellie for the second time in fear of what she may do. Luckily for Joel, Ellie can look past his bullshit and take Joel's lie as a sign that he can't mentally and emotionally continue surviving without her around.
Awesome video once again dude.
I obviously don't want this, but if you did decide to call videomaking quits, at least we'll always have these beautiful pieces of work. We'll always have effing Paris!!
That was honsetly very emotional for me and I can't even explain why best I've heard on the game it earned you a like and a follow
Man this is really good! After seeing this I think I might start advising humanities students to start reviewing game on youtube haha!! superb
Haha thanks so much, man!
And assuming you're serious, both the humanities and video games can use the credibility that smart voices have to offer! :D
Doing TLOU as a related text for my English area of study. This is awesome and really helped!
Also AWESOME video Sole!!! Would not even thought of those points!
there's a protagonist centered morality effect on players as they're given agency via the playing character they're more emotionally invested in that character and thus tend to adopt/accept his mindset more easily albeit objectively wrong. that's why some people say they feel genuinely in agreement with joel about his decision to save ellie but placed in an objective position in the narrative where they could've stopped joel from rescuing ellie, most probably would have.
I wouldn`t have stopped him .
This is extremely detailed, and thought provoking, and really made me look at the game on a different way.
I knew, after completing the game, there was more to it then just what you see on scene.
I just couldn't quit put my finger on it.
And this video, (along with Grant Voegtle's) really opened my eyes.
I thank you guys for taking so much time in to making these extremely well edited, written, and in depth analysis i have ever seen for a game.
And both of you guys, (especially YOU!) need more people, who don't think that the game has depth, or is even that special of a story.
In my opinion, in all of my 16 years of gaming, this is the greatest game i have ever played.
And i'm glad that videos like this shows one of the reason why that is.
Although you didn't mention anything about the game play, (which is one of the most hated aspect for people who hate the game. I didn't have a problem with it. I found it to be very well engaging, intense, scary, satisfying, challenging, etc.) I still think that this is an amazing video, and you deserves a lot more subs.
100/10 +Like +A New Subscriber.
I hope you will make more of these types of video in the near future :)
Wow! Thanks *so* much for those *very* flattering compliments! :D I'll take this opportunity to thank *you* for your support! I'm thrilled you enjoyed it! Let me untangle this comment in order: (:D)
Thanks for lumping me in with Grant Voegtle! :D That on its own is extremely flattering. I'm thrilled he helped out as much as he did, and, as I said in the video, I'm proud to have worked with him! Hopefully he and I can work on a project again in the future.
Sorry I didn't defend the gameplay! (which I found extremely satisfying, myself) I've heard some call it bland but I didn't know that was a popular opinion for sure.
As far as "deserving more subs" goes: thanks a ton for saying that, too! All I can say is share and tell your friends if you want to help spread the word (If not, that's cool too :D)! From what I can tell, that's a pretty big driver for views!
As far as more videos like this, I'm *definitely* working on them. :D But since you liked this one, I suspect you'll like the one I did on Mass Effect (If you've played that) also. Make sure to check it out!
Again, thanks so much for the kind words and support! I sincerely mean it when I say I'm thrilled to have it from you! :D
SolePorpoise You got it man :)
I'll share it to everybody i know who love The Last Of Us just as much as i do ;)
I have actually never played the mass effect games before, but have always wanted to.
But at the moment, i have no option to do so.
The reason why i haven't is because, i played the demo to the 3 one, and i really don't like the combat controls.
The camera is i big part of that. It just do not feel right for some reason.
I also found the animations to be rather stiff and repetitive to look at.
I don't know why those things bothers me so much, but for a game series with such praise, it really seems half ass-est in my opinion.
(Especially the stiff character animation.)
Plus those games demand 100+hours, which i just don't have the time for at this moment.
But it has always kept me thinking of buying it because everybody seems to love them so much.
Although i know that a demo isn't really something to draw your whole perspective of the entire franchise on, it still makes me question if i will like, and or get use to the combat system.
Anyways, it's great to see channels like yours, were they really show there appreciation for there feed back :D And i'm glad that you read the whole thing even though it was long. (Just like this one sadly....)
I can't wait to see what your next video will be about,
And i hope you the best man ;D
P.s. what you opinion on the upcoming The Last Of Us Movie?
And which actors/actresses would you like to see playing the roles of the characters of the game?
***** That's too bad! The series is the best I've played. And unfortunately the first is so dated at this point, it might be hard for you to get into. But if you ever do check it out (I can't recommend highly enough sometime down the road), the story is phenomenal, and I hope my video on it supports that claim (contrary to the nasty things said about its ending). :) As for bad controls on the demo, I don't exactly know if that changes in the actual game. I never played the demo as I wanted to go in fresh. But I can say the game's solid and a ton of fun all around (again, the first will be harder to get into!).
Thanks for the well-wishes! :D Again, I'm delighted to have your support!
Re: TLOU movie:
I don't have *extremely* high hopes. That's not to say it'll be bad. But this kind of thing happens with media. Movies offer their own unique advantages, and, in my opinion, many more disadvantages (time constraints stand out as a biggie). It's a great medium, don't get me wrong; but historically speaking, video games aren't typically given very good retelling in movies =/. Games, especially ones like this one, do a wonderful job at telling stories. There's always some implied expectation that a movie will leave a larger mainstreamed audience with the same experience as the game did for you. So far I haven't left with that feeling from a game-inspired movie. With that (mouthful) said, I think it'll be fun and I'll definitely be seeing it! :D
As for actors:
Hugh Jackman for Joel (Not sure why but that seems like an obvious choice)
I can't think of an actor young enough to play Ellie, haha
For some odd reason, John Goodman as Tommy
And Glenn Close seems like she's sacrificed a few children in her day, so her for Marlene! :D
Sorry if I'm leaving someone out. How about you?
SolePorpoise Hugh Jackman because of the movie Prisoners. Either him or Josh Brolin from No Country For Old Men. Ellie, i don't even know. But if they pick the wrong actress for that role, the movie would burn...... :/ But Marlene an Tess could basically be played by the same actresses, sense they almost look exactly like the characters in the game. And because of war z (Which was an AWFUL movie btw) Brad Pit could be alright as Tommy.
(Sorry for the wait, i just watched you new video, and then jumped back to this one, only to realise that you had made a new response -.-' )
Made prob to the 11.000 views btw ;)
This was beautiful , good job , I got to watch this thanks to Joseph Anderson's video.
It is looking like the comment section is as interesting as the video. The fact that both are good is a nice gem to find on UA-cam.
Great analysis, explains everything perfectly. You had my attention for the entire video. Great job.
Thanks, man! I really appreciate that! :D
This brought back all of the intense emotions I felt during the game!
First off, You and Grant's analysis have helped me view this game at its deepest. Thank you for that. Very Impressive work.
I know I'm a bit late, but I would like to share some words on how this game affected me, more importantly how the last sequence affected me. This is just my opinion and my personal thoughts.
In Grant's video he talked about how The Last Of Us changed his view on having children. How Ellie made him want to have his own daughter. I think thats extremely powerful. Having children is an extremely difficult challenge and huge responsibility. For a video game to change his mind on that is quite powerful. All I could think when he said that is "me too". Thats just how powerful this game is.
In the last sequence, I felt Joel's rage and impatience. Did I feel remorse when I was mowing down the fireflies to get to ellie. No. The only thing that was important to me was finding Ellie. Didnt second guess shooting doctor when I saw Ellie on the operating table. I even justified killing marlene because she was willing to kill Ellie. As you said it wasnt until I saw Joel in the truck that I felt regret. Then I saw Ellie and that regret turned into relief.
I dont know if that makes me a bad person, but it was undeniably what I felt. I believe it was the humanity in me that led me to that descion. That Ellie was more than a vaccine to me and Joel. I say me and Joel because I felt like I was with Joel and Ellie on a personal level. The last of us challenged me in me so many ways. Me personally, At the end lf the game I felt love, relief and truth because in the end, Ellie was real and Joel was real and thats something that no other video game has ever done to me. Make believe something I know is fiction. Powerful.
Really smart video man. Subscribed and will look forward to your future vids!
Thus far everyone has commented on the excellent content, and rightly so! At this point I doubt I could add anything of value to the discussion that hasn't been stated already. So, I'm going to approach this from a different perspective.
The combination of music and the cadence of your voice, and how you matched them so carefully together helped sell your theory just as strongly as the content itself. In short you're a wonderful orator.
righteousham Oh my goodness! You're very kind! :D Thank you!
Hooooooooly shit. The ending of the video was incredibly thought provoking. It's not only about questioning the outcome of the actions that were taken by Joel in the game, but I was shocked by the observation you mention when we, the player, can't help but feel a sense of disgust and regret when we assume Joel let Ellie die. Which is something I definitely felt and only come to realize through this video.
While people are very split between Kantian and Utilitarian ethics (natural VS artificial), I feel that through this video I've learned that most people would favor natural virtues, even if they're not aware of it, because it's hardwired in our brain. Though I can't speak for everyone and I'm sure in different context/scenario a person could react or think differently, but I really believe it's safe to think most people would think like that.
It's really a shame that this has so little views because the contents is really good. Anyway, I enjoyed it, kudos.
If they had given Ellie the choice, the chance to decide her fate, I think she would have gone through with it- and even that Joel would have allowed it.
As the situation stands however, I have to agree with Joel. What the fire-flies tried to do was no better than a summary execution "for the good of the many." It's the exact same thing as when Sarah was killed at the start, and I'd be damned if I let it go that way twice.
One of the best videos I've seen in a long time, keep doing what you're doing
Amazing video, I learned so much more that I never thought about in the game. You know how to get to the point while keeping it interesting. well done :)
Outstanding video. Bravo. Really, this is amazing!
Thanks so much, man! :D I just finished my script for my analysis on The Last of Us: Left Behind so keep an eye out for that! :D
SolePorpoise alright I will be lookin for it!
I just finished the game and can't let it go. Definitely the best story that I have ever been told. So many great moral debates and humanity included in those characters. I sort of both feel in love with Ellie and wanting her to be my daughter at the same time. I know it's what Neil D was thinking when he wrote it.... and it's so brillant! I was trying to avoid killing the doctors and really did want to save mankind instead of one girl. When I found Ellie on the table though and found out that I had no other choice I still fell glad. Cause Ellie my loved one(Joel's, protagonist,
therefore me) was alive, safe and well. Really a great analysis, keep up the good work!!
Thanks so much for the kind words and support! :D
I know that exact same feeling because that's exactly what I went through after I finished the game. My mind was just buzzing and I couldn't think about anything besides the experience I just had. It's how I know I just experienced art.
I have lost count how many times I have watched your videos. I really enjoy your views on the games, makes me what to replay them again ^^
I'm flattered!! Thanks for the kind words and the support! I'm working on my next video now and expect to have it out in 3 weeks-ish! :D Stay tuned!
^^ I look forward to watching it. I wonder what your view would be on the games Phantom Dust, Panzer dragoon Sage and shadow of the colossus if you have played any of them.
This is some deep, heavy shit man. I love it! Kudos.
Seriously, thanks so much! :D Believe me, I'm thrilled this kind of thing has a niche. I've got more coming, just like it!
You can get to the doctor without killing anyone but the soldier in the cutscene, however you have to kill the doctor
Joel canonically kills the one soldier at the beginning of the hospital, the doctor, and Marlene. Whether or not he kills more people than that is up to you.
As far as I was concerned this world wasn't worth saving. Wanting so badly to survive that you're willing to forsake everything that makes you human make you nothing more than a cowardly animal. Ellie was more than that, and by the end so was Joel.
Incredible work on everything you do. So glad I found this channel.
+Destin Finkbiner You're extremely kind, thank you! I'm glad you found this channel too! :D
+SolePorpoise Please keep making these. :) you should do one on chappie. haha whatever you want. You should read: "Earth Abides" the character Ish is based on the main character of that book.
When I entered the operating room, I instinctively used my flamethrower on all 3 doctors. I didn't realize you could just kill the one with his own scalpel until the 2nd or 3rd playthrough
Amazing analisys. I'm sending this link to all my friend here in Brazil ! Thank you
Thank *you* man! I'm so thankful for support like this! :D
For Joel to let Ellie die is not to sacrifice her but himself. By saving her he saves himself. She was totally ready to die for the cause but it would DESTROY Joel. Imagine to fight for survival for so long and finally finding something meaningful (Ellie as a surrogate daughter) only to have it torn away from you would be absolutely devastating. Remember what Hendry did after he lost Sam?
Joel was saving himself as much as saving Ellie.
Fucking hell this game is simply brilliant!
To tell the truth I felt 50/50 (like Grant said) about killing the doctors . Since Tess died, Joel had no choice but to take care of Ellie until they reached the fireflies. With Ellie being around Sarah's age (14 or so) it had Joel feel as if Sarah was right there with him with the relationship that Ellie and Joel had created.