Octavian is the politician that every character in GoT could ever aspire to be. He doesn't need cruelty or to be a great warrior in order to gain power in it's true form. He strike from the shadow .... Cunning and manipulative but is still being perceived as a literal Living God by the people.
Not only Rome... still cant believe there are 8 seasons of GoT, but no good show about Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, which was one fu*king big Game of Thrones whole time.
Octavian would annihilate the big players in AGOT, only baelish and varys have the political savvy and intelligence to meet him on the political battlefield, and even then they lack the force to back themselves up.
I'd say that Tywin and Tyrion would prove to be difficult to deal with, even for Octavian. But I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a way to outmaneuver them. In terms of wits and forces at their disposal they are all matched, but Octavian has a key advantage: charisma. People would side with him.
Gus Villa Perhaps. But Octavian is a skilled manipulator and both Tyrion and Tywin (while both very intelligent and politically savvy) have serious character flaws that he'd exploit.
The look on Antony's face when he realizes that, for all his strength, for all his skill at spilling blood... it is utterly useless against a master of cunning and manipulation like Octavian. The ultimate insult for a warrior is to have someone defeat you so utterly without having to raise a finger to do it.
Although to be fair Atia becomes a lot more likeable in the 2nd season compared to the 1st. I think that's partly due to other female characters (like Servilla) really lowering the bar for morals, but I liked Atia and Anthony as a couple in this show and even sympathized with her in the end when Anthony dumped her for Cleopatra and wouldn't even grant her an audience in Egypt (used as a bargaining chip and humiliated). All of this after in the first season my opinion of her was pretty much "cold hearted greedy manipulative bitch", and I think even the way in which her character evolved is reflective of the great writing quality of this show.
@@Vict0r1984 she deserves everything she's got, she was a horrible mother and a stupid lover, even after everything anthony did she still "blamed" her son, she let her lover beat up her own son, that's just messed up.
@@Archonsx My memory of the show is a bit fuzzy given that I finished watching it about an year ago, but if I remember correctly she actually tried to make Octavian's alliance with Antonius work and did not support Octavian more overtly also because she feared he would lose a war against the former, so she obviously cared about her son in her own way. Secondly, I think you misunderstood my argument - I wasn't saying Atia was a "great mother" or morally upstanding by our contemporary standards (if you judge them by that 90% of ancient Romans would look like unstable egotistical maniacs, most of all the male patricians and generals who made most decisions), but that she was a likeable character. Likeable does not in any way equal moral or dutiful - series aren't real life and often times a character's unique personality will bring life to a show and offer the audience a great window into an otherwise alien mindset, and I will often like such characters due to the value they bring to the story and their unique traits even if they happen to be cold blooded serial killers. Of course it is anyone's subjective opinion what characters they like based on demeanour/personality/political views etc, but what I'm saying is that I don't judge characters in a story solely based on morals (especially modern ones in a historic setting). Also, very moral characters, if they do not have other saving graces, tend to be far less complex than Atia and therefore more boring and worse. I find most "great mothers", "incorruptible officials", "loyal soldiers" and other dutiful character tropes to be far worse characters than Atia for example, as they are far less fleshed out by the writers, and I was glad this show tried to portray Rome as close to how vulgar, pragmatic, dangerous and largely morally-vacuous it really was and did not implement almost any of the aforementioned clichés or morally sanitize characters for the eyes of a modern audience. Another show that did this very well in my opinion - portray historical societies as close to reality as possible as opposed to making them more palatable to modern tastes - is "Borgia: faith and fear" by Canal+ and Sky Italia. It's in English, has three seasons and is much better than the American-produced "The Borgias", and I recommend it to you if you're also an avid history lover like myself. Finally, of course you are entitled to your own opinion about Atia and we can just respectfully disagree - cinema is art after all and there is no universal right or wrong in art...
She was a Claudian, she would be used to it. They were known as being either the best of the Romans or the worst of them. Plus, she was willing to divorce her husband to marry up (although she made sure that HER son, not his, took over the family business). Just as shark-like as Octavian, if not ultimately more so.
Livia was the greatest victim of the series premature ending. She was a skilled politician and a perfect parntner for Octavian. She could be one of the best characters.
I love when Antony grabs Octavian. Octavian has utterly outmatched and outmaneuvered Antony and the looks on their faces show that both of them know exactly that.
Fun story: one day Augustus, the former Octavion, saw his daughter dressed rather revealingly and expressed his disapproval. The very next day he saw her dressed more modestly and told her that this attire was "More becoming the daughter of Augustus." She replied "Today I'm dressed for my father's eyes-yesterday it was for my husband's."
+Daniel Ryan Another fun story: One day Augustus went to dine at someone's house that was a newish acquaintance, the person served him sardines to which he said "I had no idea we were such good friends".
+Daniel Ryan yeah it was in ancient Rome, they were pawns at best in a vast political game,pawns at best,Roman marriages were broken/annulled at a dizzying speed.
I think the implication is that her sexual freedom will be restricted moreso than anything else. She’s an unmarried woman and relies on her sordid affairs for male company. With the guards and spies around, men won’t be able to come in and out like they did before.
Probably one of the best moments in the series. When Octavian cleans up the bloody mess of corruption and depravity that is his family and screws over Anthony for what he did to him earlier.
*Antony was portrayed perfectly in this series, especially in this scene.* Finally, for the first time in his life, Mark Antony is powerless and under the thumb of his enemy. I felt so bad for him.
@@MAwwwww11 so is Trump but that does not make them good politicians. Anthony withheld the grain supply and starved his own people just to get back at Octavian. That's pretty low on my scale. No so funny.
HBO Rome: *Octavian asks Livia on a party to marry him* History: *Octavian hunts Livia all over the empire to marry her and leaves his wife Scribonia at the same day his daughter Julia is born*
To be fair. Livia did wanted to marry Octavian. She and her husband hated each other due to their marriage being political in nature. Her husband was more than happy to "sell" her to Octavian in exchange for money and sponsorship in his political career - which he got.
"My father was a nobody, his father was a slave. There's not a drop of good blood in me. You are the sister to Gaius Octavian Caesar." -Agrippa My boi Agrippa was the most wholesome dude on this whole show.
And then he married Octavian's daughter. Though, to be fair, this was arranged by Octavian in order to neutralize Agrippa as a potential rival without having to kill him.
''Agrippa had in every way clearly shown himself the noblest of the men of his day and had used the friendship of Agustus with a view to the greatest advantage both of the emperor himself and of the Commonwealth.'' Cassius Dio, Roman History 54.29.1 "He was a man of distinguished character, unqongurqble by toil, loss of sleep or danger, well disciplined in obedience, but to one man alone, yet eager to command others; in whatever he did he knew no such thing as delay, but with him action went hand in hand with conception." Velleius Paterculus, on Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
Well, the real Octavian was not known to be cruel and he meted out justice as it was deserved, so maybe he'd let Tyrion be and chop Joffrey's balls off. Joffrey would be allowed to live, but with no family jewels.
Octavian have grow some balls, is surprising how shy he was in the first season, but well, in my experience living in a family like that or you become a reclusive or you become like Octavian.
Very true. He knew he had to embody a firm but just patriarch to thrive in such a circumstance. Octavian also wanted the legacy of Julius Caesar to continue and understood Roman politics were incredibly brutal, he had to become strong.
There's only the appearance that you have ever really had a friend. Here and now there is no such thing. Unheard of around these parts, at least for now. The more friends you "have" the more diluted you are, not to mention gullible and foolish. I see and hear average folks talk about how this guy is my best friend, my best broski or some crap and a few weeks later that friend takes off disappears hardly saying goodbye. Nor does he care. Then the dipshit finds some new best friends, and the new ones care even less. Probably they secretly hate him. But the guy thinks he has a clique or an entourage. They don't give a hoot about you. All you see is surface. Nothing is more annoying than Logan Paul's whose friends are mocking him and using him as a publicity stunt. Its fine to be an extrovert, but people need to find themselves first. It's your own fault because you're easily hustled.
Lies she killed all of Augustus heirs also so she could make her depressed and cynical son Tiberius the heir List of her victims Marcellus (octavia’s son) Lucius,Gaius and Postumus (Augustus and Agrippas Grandsons) Germanicus (her own grandson)
The show was originally envisioned to be five seasons but its massive budget was too much for HBO to handle at the time and so season two was hastily re-written to conclude the series. In actuality, season three was supposed to be where the alliance between Mark Antony and Octavian fell apart.
The show was sadly rushed and under funded for all of it's ambition. Truly it could've been one of the greatest TV series to ever grace the screen but it was not to be.
@Kira 'gave him the credit' Historically it was the other way around. He took the credit for the victories Agrippa won in Octavians name. Octavian would never have been capable of keeping his power were it not for him, as however cunning he was when it came to the power game, Octavian was a terrible military commander who almost ran the nation into the ground fielding exhausted armies only to lose them against his political enemies.
Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor. For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍
Octavia: ‘You’re marrying a monster.’ Livia: ‘Do you have any idea how many of my stepchildren I’m going to have poisoned, drowned, slutshamed, and falsely convicted as rapists? Don’t eat the figs.’
Yes:) exactly 19.08.0014 ! BTW -as far as disgrace and family matters - it was Julia, Octavian's daughter, who had a relationship with Anthony's son Iulius Antonius who was already a husband to Octavia 's first daughter, Claudia. Octavian could not withstand such dishonor so he made Iulius commit suicide and send his only daughter to exile (Tiberius made her starve to death later!).
+Isabella H even though he disapproved of Ovids poetry he never censored him,but at the same time he sent Julia into exile he called Ovid in and interrogated him himself, no1 knows what was said only that afterwards Ovid was sent to the Danube.
@@dewok2706 Republic would be collapsed without a strong hand monarch(=permanent civil war, corruption, bad public safety(pirates abducted people and sold them as slaves etc.).
I got to say I love how his character develops from being a boy slapped around by Antony into becoming the emperor. The part where his sister laughs in his face when he tells her his plans probably did away with any affection he had for her. He becomes a cold, calculating badass by the end
This scene is amazing. Octavian's voice lightly breaking on the word "gold" shows that, despite his cold facade, he was just as anxious during this confrontation with Anthony as when he was a boy. It adds a lot of character depth, and also shows that Anthony is still a threat, despite being outmaneuvered by Octavian.
A huge difference before when Octavian was an 18-year-old boy who stood up to Antony and almost died at his hands. Now it's Octavian who holds true power over Rome and Antony know it and can't do anything about it.
Certainly in kings landing where politics and subterfuge reigns supreme, hard to say how he would have fared against the fantasy elements threatening him.
This is the scene that just completely sold me on Octavian. I've always loved him as a historical character and there were very good scenes before this with him, but this was just so incredibly badass. Just look at his face when Antony has his hand around Octavian's neck. He's completely unfazed and Antony just lets him go, powerless to do anything except obey.
My favorite word in this scene is "SILENCE"! To me it encapsulates the power that Augustus has and he knows that he has it. Simon Woods' acting is far beyond any other actor who's portrayed Augustus (except perhaps Brian Blessed in I, Claudius). The lack of blinking he uses is brilliant and adds to his character! I wish Simon would return to the silver screen. I've heard he semi-retired. While there were many great characters in the Rome series, in fact they were ALL great, but his performance stands out to me! The sign of a great actor is when the actor needs no lines and his emotion still comes out. That's my opinion, for what it's worth!
Blessed was an excellent actor, of course, but as Emperor he was such a daddy-like nice chap outmaneuvered by Livia. Now we see how Octavian became Augustus. The same Burton as Antony in "Cleopatra", in his sexy mini now looks a bit funny in comparison to Purefoy. I appreciate old movies enormously but they do not provide this touch of authenticity that we can admire in ROME. It's just my opinion. Woods was so great as Octavian. This is really annoying when good actor do not appear on the screen and we still see have plenty of people who are promoted and do not deserve this.
+Isabella H I like him aswell but for me its Roddy McDowell, Jesus the menace of that guy,love that version of Octavian. "WHERE IS EGYPT...SHOW ME..WHERE IS EGYPT".
Max was great. I almost wish they post poned season 2 a couple years to have him continue the role. Woods did a great job, but something about his portrayal made him unlikeable to me (which could be a good thing if thats what they were going for). Pirkis take he pulled off the cold and calculating, but you could root for him.
Agrippa is probably the poorest represented character on the show, historically. He was easily Augustus's most capable strong arm and built many of the successes Augustus is credited with. He's the reason the third Herod in the bible is name Herod Agrippa, because he was famous throughout the eastern Roman empire for his capability. He wasn't knee deep in intrigue, sometimes people are too honorable to be about that life. He was a workhorse and his rule was much appreciated and effective.
As Joffery killed Ned Stark, Cersei could not control her child for the first time, but unlike Octavian, he used his power for the Glory and Prosperity of Rome and her people.
Than that is sweet vengeance from Octavian to Antony after the way the later treated him as a boy. Antony completely underestimated Octavian and it would end in his death and Octavian in absolute control of the Roman Empire. Strange enough, Octavian, who took the name of Augustus Caesar, proved to be a wise and merciful ruler.
Rome is still the best show I've ever seen on broadcast or cable television. Every single character was perfectly cast and brilliantly portrayed by the right actor for the role. I want to say Mark Anthony and Titus Pullo are my favorites, but the young actor as Octavian was fantastic. Lucias Vorenus was awesome. But then I think about Caesar and Brutus the adult version of Octavian and they were all perfectly cast and brilliantly portrayed. Sucks it was cut short but still the best version of ancient Rome I've ever seen.
Each time when I see the statues of Octavian in museums I search in the marble for those ice cold eyes of Simon Woods. Even "Mr Branson" Agrippa reminds a lot of real Agrippa. The next one who looks very similar is the actor performing Marcus Lepidus - there are coins with his profile. As far as Atia - I don't have a problem with a character - just imagine all those "perfect" housewives not so perfect, families who looks like ideal ones for the neighbors but only children know how terrible such mothers can be. All the characters are shown like real people with the perfect psychological background, nothing is left aside. Their motivations come out straight from their experiences. This is outstanding.
I have yet to be disappointed by an actor playing OAC,but my personal favorite is Roddy McDowell, he captures the sheer coldness and brutality if him perfectly in those early years before the defeat of Antony.
By the way, Caesar Octavian, have you borrowed (as dear Antony already mentioned ;) the glory of others and my picture taken of your statue? Admiring you, divine Augustus, I can see the striking resemblance to the pix the minute 7:06 in one of my little YTfilms. No offence;))
I love this scene, partly for the way Octavian says "Silence", partly because after Mark Antony and Atia had been violent and abusive to him for so long now the balance of power has completely changed. Fantastic acting by James Purefoy as Antony, the sheer terror in his reaction is awesome.
Not really, Sith are known for embracing passion and emotion while Octavian is all about pragmatism. The actor would probably be great though just not the character.
Octavian's voice and demeanor were a little shaky from that last line to Antony til the end. It shows that he still felt emotion in this scene but kept it under superhuman control, which he only relaxed as Antony left. Watch as Atia walks by him... he opens his mouth as if to say something but doesn't. He was very affected by what had just happened.
Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor. For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍
I loved how they portrayed Octavian in this show, it was like from a young age he fashioned himself into exactly what he needed to be to destroy his enemies
Octavian is my kinda guy. Calls out people for who they really are. Makes you wonder how he could walk dragging those massive balls around with him everywhere lol.
lyon laurent upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Augustus_Bevilacqua_Glyptothek_Munich_317.jpg He also slept with loads of woman, Mark Anthony in a real letter to Augustus suspected by the time his letter arrived to him he would have slept with half the female Roman nobles.
This is one of my favorite scenes. The acting is great, the costumes/setpieces are fantastic and the attention to detail in even the social castes and art are terrific, but what sets this series as arguably the best tv historical fiction is the exceptional writing. The script never steps into cliche and the characters personalities fit their lines to a key, not to mention it never dulls itself down for the sake of an audience. Excellent, excellent show.
At the end of this scene, he tells his wife that she should try the songbird with vague tears in his eyes. As he feels the satisfaction comes from defeating his nemesis but at the same time he understands in this path he has chosen, the relationship between him and his family will never be the same.
Some people think Octavian is a socio or psychopath...acting cold and being unable to express emotions (he clearly had them- think back to when he couldn't stand to see his mother on her knees before him)... He was temperate unless provoked. In reality, Octavian let Antony go to Egypt and it would have ended there had not Antony 'gone native' and in his will, which augustus read, FORMALLY DECLARED FOR CEASARION (which was a direct affront to Augustus), GAVE OFF ROMAN PROVINCES TO HIS OWN CHILDREN WHICH IS TREASON (he had zero right to siphon off provinces), and most importantly, withheld grain shipments to his OWN COUNTRY, sending the Roman people into starvation. And the final insult, divorce Augustus' sister and abandon his family for a foreign wife. Augustus had little choice but to move against Antony. Additionally, he ruled for 6 decades and ushered in the greatest era of peace and prosperity Rome ever knew, the Pax Romana. His rule was characterized by his temperateness and moral judgment. Even people that crossed him he often simply exiled. Many people cry 'but he killed little Ceasarion when he was a child!'. No, he tolerated Ceasarion until he could no longer afford to do so; at which time he did order his death-after Ceasarion moved against him and he WAS 17, NOT A CHILD. The rest of the children by Mark Antony and Cleopatra, HE RAISED THEM IN HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD, WITH HIS SISTER AS THEIR MOTHER, and himself as the 'Pater Familia'. Not very tyrant-ish if you ask me.
Yeah people give Augustus a lot of shit but the man was a genius and brought on the right people to make him look good if nothing else. There's talent in that.
Agrippa was played dirty in the series. He saved Octavian’s ass more times than you can count. When Octavian got his ass kicked in a battle, there was Agrippa saving the day. He never asked for glory or even tried to overthrow Octavian, he was truly a best bro. Hell, he even helped renovate the city and make sure public baths and fountains were sanitary.
He’s at Octavian’s side at the end of the series and the last glance between him and Octavia suggest that they’ll likely rekindle their affair again so he didn’t make out so badly.
The casting of this show was amazing. Great work from James Purefoy and Ray Stevenson as Mark Anthony and Titus Pullo, and the rest of the actors were just as brilliant as them.
Did you promise to serve your citizens a republic but can't or would prefer not to? No problem! Tonight on "Dinner with Octavian" our friendly host Gaius Octavian Caesar will teach you how to disguise your simple military dictatorship as a fancy oligarchic republic! No one will ever know...
FlyingTheDutchman Because Octavian was a master of public relations. He knew that maintaining the facade of the Republic would keep him in the goodwill of the Senate (which was made up of very rich and powerful men who could still cause trouble if they wanted to) and the people of Rome. He was basically emperor in everything but name only.
Porterhouse They were. In this day and age we call them Emperors, but back then they were not seen as Emperors. Given the strong Roman hatred of monarchy, and faith in its republic, taking an authoritarian title, such as "King" or "Emperor", would have been political suicide.
I love this scene because it parallels what Antony did at the start of the season which changed who Octavian was forever. When he was a child, Antony felt powerful enough to nearly strangle to him to death in his own home, and Antony probably would have if not for Atia. Atia saves his life by shouting he is just a boy. It’s clear Octavian had that moment in his head for years, and has been waiting for it to repeat itself. He became the cold and calculating person he is so that when the time came, Antony would be too afraid to hurt him again. Octavian also wanted the respect he always felt he deserved from his family, and in this scene he finally took absolute control. Basically, he got everything he wanted in a single scene.
Simon Woods is magnificent, as was Max Pirkis, in the role of Octavian. To understand history, you have to have characters who live the role, convincingly. A weakness in so telling of this tale, is that Anthony too shallow, too unintelligent and a coward, which is on its face, is ridiculous. Julius Caesar chose both Octavian and Anthony as his heirs(personal and military) because they were smart and had strength of character to withstand the winds which might come upon his passing. Simon, Max and James Purefoy, pull it off brilliantly. And no review would be complete without praising the magnificent portrayal of Atia of the Julii by Polly Walker. I just have a little problem that the real Atia was nothing like that and apparently recoiled at politics. She was more worried about her son. I think she appreciated Julius Caesar and his being Octavian's Mentor. She was right. Of course, there is the issue that she was no longer of the Julii when she married into her husbands family. But well done, excellent entertainment and brilliant acting.
I'm not sure I agree that Antony was portrayed as unintelligent in the show. Octavian is just more cunning. Antony in the show has a temper, but is often also smart enough to know when he's beaten. Like in this scene, the stupid move would have been to strike Octavian, but he doesn't, because he knows it would be politically imprudent.
@Brian O'Hara - Antony had military cunning for miles and miles. He also had political intelligence - *to a point.* He could take on politics in short spurts, but he was unable to play the long game. And that's what caused his downfall.
I think the show alters the character of most important persons. Octavian likely wasn't a total sociopath, he has his flaws, but likely he feel real friendship with Agrippa and has really loved Livia.
@@SacredDaturana Antony on the show was plenty intelligent, it's just that ultimately he was never doing more than playing a a game - a deadly game for very high stakes, but still, a game. That's one thing that never changed for him through the whole arc of the series. Octavian was very good at playing the game but he also took it very seriously on a level beyond that of a game - from the very first episode he shows a great deal of interest in the well-being and political stability of Rome as a nation and a people, just as Julius Caesar did. Antony is also shown, correctly IMO, as unable and/or unwilling to rein in his appetites even wen it is in his political interest to do so. He is lecherous and venal to a fault, as opposed to Octavian, who never lets sex get in the way of his political interest and is greedy only to the extent it serves his need for financial resources for his political and military campaigns. But for Antony, having to restrain himself from stealing or screwing whatever and whoever he feels like would spoil the whole point of being powerful.
OAC actually gave him the princeps ring he got so ill at 1 stage in his rule,he pulled through. I read somewhere that one of Aggrippa's main building projects was going into the sewer system, he had it was cleaned, expanded so more water could be pumped into the city on 2 new aqeducts. No1 wanted the job except Aggrippa.
+edinscot56789 The funny thing about Agrippa is that historians still try to figure out if he was just loyal to the bitter and to Augustus (since he was the only one who could rival Augustus position) or if he just tried to wait until the always sickly Augustus die a natural way. Bad for him that Augustus survived him a long time.
+Otto Karl Agrippa never needed to be emperor. I think he understood that he had the same powers essentially as Augustus anyway.plus the way it was set up, Agrippa's sons would be emperors and rule the empire after Augustus passed. Why jeopardise that? Because Agrippa was low-born, the empire would never accept him as emperor (but was content to have him as second-in-command) but his sons - through their genealogical connection to the emperor through his daughter Julia - would be accepted as Augutus' heirs.
The son that Tywin always wanted
Oh my god, you're right
Nah. Tywin would of feared him as surely as everyone else did.
Tywin: "What makes a great king?"
Octavian: "Getting rid of a useless grandfather."
Octavian is the politician that every character in GoT could ever aspire to be.
He doesn't need cruelty or to be a great warrior in order to gain power in it's true form.
He strike from the shadow .... Cunning and manipulative but is still being perceived as a literal Living God by the people.
WOW very well said!
Rome is basically Game of Thrones but stripped down into nothing but the political maneuvering and plotting and I love every minute of it.
And it's was real history that taught to leaders of the world.
Pretty much GOT without the magic, the dragons and it's perfect.
And, thankfully, w/o the series ruining ending.
Its the same production team
Not only Rome... still cant believe there are 8 seasons of GoT, but no good show about Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, which was one fu*king big Game of Thrones whole time.
He would win the Game of Thrones.
Happyfunrun Well, before the dragons come, that is.
Octavian would position himself in a way that Daenerys would have no option but to marry him, like he forced Mark Anthony to leave.
Octavian would annihilate the big players in AGOT, only baelish and varys have the political savvy and intelligence to meet him on the political battlefield, and even then they lack the force to back themselves up.
I'd say that Tywin and Tyrion would prove to be difficult to deal with, even for Octavian. But I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a way to outmaneuver them. In terms of wits and forces at their disposal they are all matched, but Octavian has a key advantage: charisma. People would side with him.
Gus Villa Perhaps. But Octavian is a skilled manipulator and both Tyrion and Tywin (while both very intelligent and politically savvy) have serious character flaws that he'd exploit.
The look on Antony's face when he realizes that, for all his strength, for all his skill at spilling blood... it is utterly useless against a master of cunning and manipulation like Octavian.
The ultimate insult for a warrior is to have someone defeat you so utterly without having to raise a finger to do it.
He almost cries there lol
Brawn vs. Brain
Gregory Smith he was 77 years old which was actually an long old age back then.
its a long old age now, "back then" wasn't so long ago,concerning the big picture.
"The true mark of supreme excellence is crushing your enemy's resolve without fighting."
- Sun Tzu
That "Silence." The cold authority with which he delivers that line is palpable.
A comment that is both unrelated and self-contradictory. Nice
@cornelius washington she forgot he was Caesar's son first
@cornelius washington well said
I don't like Octavian. He is very exesive and so cold...
He got that from Julius. He got Ptolemy XIII to be quiet.
The look on Livia's face at 4:07. She's like "I'm marrying a monster? Perhaps. But I'm marrying the future ruler of Rome."
If you know what happens next, Livia is the monster.
@@rory7590 *Scheming to get Tiberius into power intensifies*
@@rory7590 Explain to me why please, I want to know
@@GAPLATER she plotted to kill several capable relatives of Octavian/Augustus until he had no choice left but to make Tiberius, her son, into his heir
she's into that shit clearly
- I'll do no such th...
- SILENCE.
That was good.
Although to be fair Atia becomes a lot more likeable in the 2nd season compared to the 1st. I think that's partly due to other female characters (like Servilla) really lowering the bar for morals, but I liked Atia and Anthony as a couple in this show and even sympathized with her in the end when Anthony dumped her for Cleopatra and wouldn't even grant her an audience in Egypt (used as a bargaining chip and humiliated). All of this after in the first season my opinion of her was pretty much "cold hearted greedy manipulative bitch", and I think even the way in which her character evolved is reflective of the great writing quality of this show.
@@Vict0r1984 she deserves everything she's got, she was a horrible mother and a stupid lover, even after everything anthony did she still "blamed" her son, she let her lover beat up her own son, that's just messed up.
@@Archonsx My memory of the show is a bit fuzzy given that I finished watching it about an year ago, but if I remember correctly she actually tried to make Octavian's alliance with Antonius work and did not support Octavian more overtly also because she feared he would lose a war against the former, so she obviously cared about her son in her own way.
Secondly, I think you misunderstood my argument - I wasn't saying Atia was a "great mother" or morally upstanding by our contemporary standards (if you judge them by that 90% of ancient Romans would look like unstable egotistical maniacs, most of all the male patricians and generals who made most decisions), but that she was a likeable character. Likeable does not in any way equal moral or dutiful - series aren't real life and often times a character's unique personality will bring life to a show and offer the audience a great window into an otherwise alien mindset, and I will often like such characters due to the value they bring to the story and their unique traits even if they happen to be cold blooded serial killers. Of course it is anyone's subjective opinion what characters they like based on demeanour/personality/political views etc, but what I'm saying is that I don't judge characters in a story solely based on morals (especially modern ones in a historic setting). Also, very moral characters, if they do not have other saving graces, tend to be far less complex than Atia and therefore more boring and worse. I find most "great mothers", "incorruptible officials", "loyal soldiers" and other dutiful character tropes to be far worse characters than Atia for example, as they are far less fleshed out by the writers, and I was glad this show tried to portray Rome as close to how vulgar, pragmatic, dangerous and largely morally-vacuous it really was and did not implement almost any of the aforementioned clichés or morally sanitize characters for the eyes of a modern audience.
Another show that did this very well in my opinion - portray historical societies as close to reality as possible as opposed to making them more palatable to modern tastes - is "Borgia: faith and fear" by Canal+ and Sky Italia. It's in English, has three seasons and is much better than the American-produced "The Borgias", and I recommend it to you if you're also an avid history lover like myself.
Finally, of course you are entitled to your own opinion about Atia and we can just respectfully disagree - cinema is art after all and there is no universal right or wrong in art...
YO AR MA DOTHA! YOU WILL DO AS I COMMAND AND YOU WILL MARRY GAIU OCTAVIAN CAESAR!
@@doesnotreallymatterr a fine match, are they not?
What a way to introduce your future wife to your family!
lmfao
She was a Claudian, she would be used to it. They were known as being either the best of the Romans or the worst of them. Plus, she was willing to divorce her husband to marry up (although she made sure that HER son, not his, took over the family business). Just as shark-like as Octavian, if not ultimately more so.
Power move
Liva was pretty cutthroat herself. Watch "I Claudius".
@Junius Argonon I guess the answer to that would depend on how many of the rumours about her are true and how much is false.
Octavia: "You're marrying a monster!"
Me: "Oh Honey...!"
Livia was the greatest victim of the series premature ending. She was a skilled politician and a perfect parntner for Octavian. She could be one of the best characters.
@pyropulse fake news
@@joshuec6683 HE WAS A CONSUL OF RO- oh wrong subject
Eyre Borne That channel is a bad joke lol
@@dylans3833 a good* joke. but still a joke
Never, NEVER, invite Octavian to the dinner party.
Wrong invite him and watch everything burn
I love when Antony grabs Octavian. Octavian has utterly outmatched and outmaneuvered Antony and the looks on their faces show that both of them know exactly that.
+Quakekill the interrogation scene from Chris Nolan's Batman films-"You have NOTHING to threaten me with! Nothing to do with all you're strength!"
That snicker at 3:21
but that was manlove.
the guy who plays octavian is an excellent actor silence!!!
Simon Woods. He played Mr Bingley in Pride and Prejudice opposite his ex girlfriend Rosamund Pike who portrayed Jane Bennett.
I love GOT, but for Jupiter sake's, this is FAR superior
Gabriel Hoffman o
this is what made GoT possible as HBO realized the mistake in ending the series so they started looking for something else hence GoT.
I would say the scene where Tywin announces the Lannister marriages or really any scene with him in it is on par with this
Rome was way ahead of its time
Why do u say that
Fun story: one day Augustus, the former Octavion, saw his daughter dressed rather revealingly and expressed his disapproval. The very next day he saw her dressed more modestly and told her that this attire was "More becoming the daughter of Augustus." She replied "Today I'm dressed for my father's eyes-yesterday it was for my husband's."
Daniel Ryan I wouldn't be a good dad if I didn't teach my daughter how to please her husband.
+Daniel Ryan Another fun story: One day Augustus went to dine at someone's house that was a newish acquaintance, the person served him sardines to which he said "I had no idea we were such good friends".
+Andrew M The Roman Empire-one of the most wide open and permissive societies ever, yet also one of the most prudish and judgmental
+Daniel Ryan yeah it was in ancient Rome, they were pawns at best in a vast political game,pawns at best,Roman marriages were broken/annulled at a dizzying speed.
+Daniel Ryan sounds familiar
I find it funny how Atia was so upset over being put on house arrest even though she hardly left her home through the entire show.
I think the implication is that her sexual freedom will be restricted moreso than anything else. She’s an unmarried woman and relies on her sordid affairs for male company. With the guards and spies around, men won’t be able to come in and out like they did before.
well said 👏@@nickimillennium3748
Probably one of the best moments in the series. When Octavian cleans up the bloody mess of corruption and depravity that is his family and screws over Anthony for what he did to him earlier.
He should've done GOT.
tyro apache he would’ve played a perfect Joffrey, a perfect Jaime, even Littlefinger (if aged a little bit)
@@keitht24 Several actors who were in Rome stated they would refuse work in GOT after Rome was cancelled as it was. They felt fairly hard done by.
@@jayd8091 And the ones who did... I can't believe how they portrayed Edmure Tully.
@@JLucas_RS Edmure is a bitch in the books too.
wonderful to finally hear "cuckold" used in a sentence
Like many liberals Soyboy
@@charlesferdinand422 snowflake.
@Viking Song snowflake.
Abigail Sockeye - and "pleb"
@@BoxStudioExecutive The whole Red State vs Blue State is inaccurate though. You should go by county.
*Antony was portrayed perfectly in this series, especially in this scene.* Finally, for the first time in his life, Mark Antony is powerless and under the thumb of his enemy. I felt so bad for him.
It's glorious and no, I don't feel bad for him. He got owned.
I prefer Mark Anthony to Octavian. Octavian is cold and strange (sexually of course 😂) and Mark Anthony is very funny!
Mark Antony was vain and cruel. He's an enjoyable character but I can never feel sorry for him
He got outwitted by Octavian. Brains always truimphs over brawn.
@@MAwwwww11 so is Trump but that does not make them good politicians. Anthony withheld the grain supply and starved his own people just to get back at Octavian. That's pretty low on my scale. No so funny.
HBO Rome: *Octavian asks Livia on a party to marry him*
History: *Octavian hunts Livia all over the empire to marry her and leaves his wife Scribonia at the same day his daughter Julia is born*
To be fair. Livia did wanted to marry Octavian. She and her husband hated each other due to their marriage being political in nature. Her husband was more than happy to "sell" her to Octavian in exchange for money and sponsorship in his political career - which he got.
"My father was a nobody, his father was a slave. There's not a drop of good blood in me. You are the sister to Gaius Octavian Caesar." -Agrippa
My boi Agrippa was the most wholesome dude on this whole show.
He was really humble and cool...I enjoyed him..
Agrippa was the definition of gigachad in real life
He was an absolute monster on the field. Octavian never becomes Augustus without him.
And then he married Octavian's daughter. Though, to be fair, this was arranged by Octavian in order to neutralize Agrippa as a potential rival without having to kill him.
''Agrippa had in every way clearly shown himself the noblest of the men of his day and had used the friendship of Agustus with a view to the greatest advantage both of the emperor himself and of the Commonwealth.''
Cassius Dio, Roman History 54.29.1
"He was a man of distinguished character, unqongurqble by toil, loss of sleep or danger, well disciplined in obedience, but to one man alone, yet eager to command others; in whatever he did he knew no such thing as delay, but with him action went hand in hand with conception."
Velleius Paterculus, on Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
Imagine if this Octavian visits Game of thrones!?He will play Lannisters like a bitch and Starks will only last 1 season,
Jem Johnson He’d be the son Tywin always wanted
j_sia We can only hope he would’ve castrated Jeoffery and not shit on Tyrion
Well, the real Octavian was not known to be cruel and he meted out justice as it was deserved, so maybe he'd let Tyrion be and chop Joffrey's balls off. Joffrey would be allowed to live, but with no family jewels.
@@squamish4244 So Octavian was both righteous and a realist. Go figure.
Damn right. Shows you can be both. I can use Octavian as an example to anyone who calls me a 'libtard' lol
Octavian have grow some balls, is surprising how shy he was in the first season, but well, in my experience living in a family like that or you become a reclusive or you become like Octavian.
Very true. He knew he had to embody a firm but just patriarch to thrive in such a circumstance. Octavian also wanted the legacy of Julius Caesar to continue and understood Roman politics were incredibly brutal, he had to become strong.
There's only the appearance that you have ever really had a friend. Here and now there is no such thing. Unheard of around these parts, at least for now. The more friends you "have" the more diluted you are, not to mention gullible and foolish. I see and hear average folks talk about how this guy is my best friend, my best broski or some crap and a few weeks later that friend takes off disappears hardly saying goodbye. Nor does he care. Then the dipshit finds some new best friends, and the new ones care even less. Probably they secretly hate him. But the guy thinks he has a clique or an entourage. They don't give a hoot about you. All you see is surface. Nothing is more annoying than Logan Paul's whose friends are mocking him and using him as a publicity stunt. Its fine to be an extrovert, but people need to find themselves first. It's your own fault because you're easily hustled.
3:04 you cant win Anthony, Should you strike me down i shall become more powerful than you can imagine.
Petter Svenson lol
Well, Octavian literally was Palapatine. He fought Antony under the guise of "saving the republic" and ultimately destroyed it.
Tim D. Except Sheev was a bitch. Augustus brought about 200 years of relative peace. Sheev couldn't handle a farmboy and some space teddybears.
in anutshell yup .the mobb ( the people of rome ) would have torn him limb from limb .
wrong timmy, palpatine was octavia. Its just to show how manipulative genius octavia was.
“You’re marrying a monster”. Livia was the real monster
Finrod Felagund yeah honestly
Octavia was smiling at the end becsuse now she can be with Agrippa
@@emeraldruby3942 In real life Agrippa married Octavias daughter.
She was a great empress.
Lies she killed all of Augustus heirs also so she could make her depressed and cynical son Tiberius the heir
List of her victims
Marcellus (octavia’s son)
Lucius,Gaius and Postumus (Augustus and Agrippas Grandsons)
Germanicus (her own grandson)
Food was good though.
Lmao you stupid 😂😂😂
Only gripe is the show really didn't demonstrate how important Agrippa was to Octavian's rise to power.
If there was one more season i believe they could've really highlighted the importance of Agrippa
Agreed. Budgetary constraints plus being ahead of your time is not great position to be in.
The show was originally envisioned to be five seasons but its massive budget was too much for HBO to handle at the time and so season two was hastily re-written to conclude the series. In actuality, season three was supposed to be where the alliance between Mark Antony and Octavian fell apart.
The show was sadly rushed and under funded for all of it's ambition.
Truly it could've been one of the greatest TV series to ever grace the screen but it was not to be.
@Kira 'gave him the credit'
Historically it was the other way around. He took the credit for the victories Agrippa won in Octavians name. Octavian would never have been capable of keeping his power were it not for him, as however cunning he was when it came to the power game, Octavian was a terrible military commander who almost ran the nation into the ground fielding exhausted armies only to lose them against his political enemies.
Agrippa needs more movies about him. He was awesome and indispensable to Augustus.
Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor.
For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍
Those 2 literally formed a empire octavian the politician agripa the solider
Octavia: ‘You’re marrying a monster.’
Livia: ‘Do you have any idea how many of my stepchildren I’m going to have poisoned, drowned, slutshamed, and falsely convicted as rapists? Don’t eat the figs.’
My headcanon is that Rome is just a prequel to I’Claudius
Today's exactly 2000 years since the death of Octavian/ Augustus
Yes:) exactly 19.08.0014 !
BTW -as far as disgrace and family matters - it was Julia, Octavian's daughter, who had a relationship with Anthony's son Iulius Antonius who was already a husband to Octavia 's first daughter, Claudia. Octavian could not withstand such dishonor so he made Iulius commit suicide and send his only daughter to exile (Tiberius made her starve to death later!).
+Isabella H even though he disapproved of Ovids poetry he never censored him,but at the same time he sent Julia into exile he called Ovid in and interrogated him himself, no1 knows what was said only that afterwards Ovid was sent to the Danube.
+Isabella H yes and while Augustus was alive she had proper food,furnishings, clothes sent to Julia. When he died she ordered them all returned.
Fuck, I wish I could thumb this up exactly at that comment's post.
i doubt he is dead as after 2000 years u also know who he is
Octavian was the epitome of Rome. Best part of the series, his development from a bookish innocent to the emperor who built the true empire.
"built the true empire" is an insult. Rome was the greatest nation when it was a REPUBLIC...the empire was a joke that went too far.
@@dewok2706 Incorrect. The Republic was weak and corrupted.
@@Jg-jg6jb I don't care.
@@dewok2706 😂😂 republic more like bunch of corrupt senators
@@dewok2706 Republic would be collapsed without a strong hand monarch(=permanent civil war, corruption, bad public safety(pirates abducted people and sold them as slaves etc.).
its awesome when he says " Silence!" with authority!
He was more Caesar than Caesar in that moment. He owned them.
Best part
3:18 I was expecting the "I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" line.
+Agent1W It's pretty much true though.
Agent1W Do you want to kill me?
hahah, age of empire 2, Master of the templar quotes
I was half-expecting (jokingly, of course) for Augustus to whisper: Dew it!
With Education
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
I got to say I love how his character develops from being a boy slapped around by Antony into becoming the emperor. The part where his sister laughs in his face when he tells her his plans probably did away with any affection he had for her. He becomes a cold, calculating badass by the end
This scene is amazing. Octavian's voice lightly breaking on the word "gold" shows that, despite his cold facade, he was just as anxious during this confrontation with Anthony as when he was a boy. It adds a lot of character depth, and also shows that Anthony is still a threat, despite being outmaneuvered by Octavian.
"I'll do no such thing"
"SILENCE!" ❤️
“My ship is large and comfortable”.
A huge difference before when Octavian was an 18-year-old boy who stood up to Antony and almost died at his hands. Now it's Octavian who holds true power over Rome and Antony know it and can't do anything about it.
"You will wear cuckold's horns" honestly I prefer the Chinese approach of a big, green hat.
I love the look in Marc Anthony's eye when he realizes just what level of crazy he's up against.
Crazy Smart!
Crazy like a fox. Octavian was an incredibly shrewd operator.
Why would you want to crush your enemies with an army when you can crush them with your mind?
Anthony met justice in the face
"See what happens." CHILLS. The writing in this series is some of the best ever done.
Octavian would've won GOT in the first two seasons.
Certainly in kings landing where politics and subterfuge reigns supreme, hard to say how he would have fared against the fantasy elements threatening him.
This is the scene that just completely sold me on Octavian. I've always loved him as a historical character and there were very good scenes before this with him, but this was just so incredibly badass. Just look at his face when Antony has his hand around Octavian's neck. He's completely unfazed and Antony just lets him go, powerless to do anything except obey.
My favorite word in this scene is "SILENCE"! To me it encapsulates the power that Augustus has and he knows that he has it. Simon Woods' acting is far beyond any other actor who's portrayed Augustus (except perhaps Brian Blessed in I, Claudius). The lack of blinking he uses is brilliant and adds to his character!
I wish Simon would return to the silver screen. I've heard he semi-retired. While there were many great characters in the Rome series, in fact they were ALL great, but his performance stands out to me! The sign of a great actor is when the actor needs no lines and his emotion still comes out. That's my opinion, for what it's worth!
Blessed was an excellent actor, of course, but as Emperor he was such a daddy-like nice chap outmaneuvered by Livia. Now we see how Octavian became Augustus. The same Burton as Antony in "Cleopatra", in his sexy mini now looks a bit funny in comparison to Purefoy. I appreciate old movies enormously but they do not provide this touch of authenticity that we can admire in ROME. It's just my opinion. Woods was so great as Octavian. This is really annoying when good actor do not appear on the screen and we still see have plenty of people who are promoted and do not deserve this.
patriotpride16t Max Pirkis was also very good as teen Octavian in Season 1.
+Isabella H I like him aswell but for me its Roddy McDowell, Jesus the menace of that guy,love that version of Octavian. "WHERE IS EGYPT...SHOW ME..WHERE IS EGYPT".
Max was great. I almost wish they post poned season 2 a couple years to have him continue the role. Woods did a great job, but something about his portrayal made him unlikeable to me (which could be a good thing if thats what they were going for). Pirkis take he pulled off the cold and calculating, but you could root for him.
Saying that with authority is the power of emperor.
Why make Agrippa look so weak? He was an exceptional war leader, by all accounts.
Kedbuka not exactly weak, but one of Octavian's few genuine friends with a guilty conscience.
Because subordinates need to be kept in line.
Agrippa is probably the poorest represented character on the show, historically. He was easily Augustus's most capable strong arm and built many of the successes Augustus is credited with. He's the reason the third Herod in the bible is name Herod Agrippa, because he was famous throughout the eastern Roman empire for his capability. He wasn't knee deep in intrigue, sometimes people are too honorable to be about that life. He was a workhorse and his rule was much appreciated and effective.
Do you notice how Octavian's rage was almost all directed at 1) Antony, 2) Octavia, and 3) his mother? He barely even looked in Agrippa's direction.
Sean Simpson the show portraying Cicero as an opportunistic, sniveling coward is a bigger historical offense imo
Atia tries to speak out and suddenly " SILENCE !!" When a mother realises she no longer can control her children.
He was grown and the head of the family
@@mysteryjunkie9808 When he came of age, she really didn't need Antony anymore.
As Joffery killed Ned Stark, Cersei could not control her child for the first time, but unlike Octavian, he used his power for the Glory and Prosperity of Rome and her people.
2:21 "I'll do no such thing-"
"Silence"
Than that is sweet vengeance from Octavian to Antony after the way the later treated him as a boy. Antony completely underestimated Octavian and it would end in his death and Octavian in absolute control of the Roman Empire. Strange enough, Octavian, who took the name of Augustus Caesar, proved to be a wise and merciful ruler.
Octavian was a chad who even Cleopatra couldn't seduce.
Goals before holes
Rome is still the best show I've ever seen on broadcast or cable television. Every single character was perfectly cast and brilliantly portrayed by the right actor for the role. I want to say Mark Anthony and Titus Pullo are my favorites, but the young actor as Octavian was fantastic. Lucias Vorenus was awesome. But then I think about Caesar and Brutus the adult version of Octavian and they were all perfectly cast and brilliantly portrayed. Sucks it was cut short but still the best version of ancient Rome I've ever seen.
The irony of how shocked Augustus's mother looks when he fully becomes the exact person she helped create with the sternly delivered, "SILENCE!"
She really had no idea who she raised to a great extent... she really underestimated him....she did herself in ...in the long game...
Octavian cordially invites you to an evening of fun and games.
Unfortunately the only game Marc Antony plays is "Hump the Hostess"
Each time when I see the statues of Octavian in museums I search in the marble for those ice cold eyes of Simon Woods. Even "Mr Branson" Agrippa reminds a lot of real Agrippa. The next one who looks very similar is the actor performing Marcus Lepidus - there are coins with his profile. As far as Atia - I don't have a problem with a character - just imagine all those "perfect" housewives not so perfect, families who looks like ideal ones for the neighbors but only children know how terrible such mothers can be. All the characters are shown like real people with the perfect psychological background, nothing is left aside. Their motivations come out straight from their experiences. This is outstanding.
I have yet to be disappointed by an actor playing OAC,but my personal favorite is Roddy McDowell, he captures the sheer coldness and brutality if him perfectly in those early years before the defeat of Antony.
By the way, Caesar Octavian, have you borrowed (as dear Antony already mentioned ;) the glory of others and my picture taken of your statue? Admiring you, divine Augustus, I can see the striking resemblance to the pix the minute 7:06 in one of my little YTfilms. No offence;))
Isabella H 7. 06 in this movie???? Of course Octavian borrowed the glory of others,Agrippa did most of the fighting.
I love this scene, partly for the way Octavian says "Silence", partly because after Mark Antony and Atia had been violent and abusive to him for so long now the balance of power has completely changed.
Fantastic acting by James Purefoy as Antony, the sheer terror in his reaction is awesome.
damn....octavian could be a great sith lord.
He would win the GoT and he would kill Palpatine the way he acts
Not really, Sith are known for embracing passion and emotion while Octavian is all about pragmatism. The actor would probably be great though just not the character.
@@X3105i He would dominate the show, but the books have some really intelligent schemers who would make hard competition.
A SITH LORD!?
Emperor Palpatine «Go on strike me»
Emperor Augustus «Go on strike me»
What's with those emperors
2:50 “It was at this moment that Anthony knew he was fucked"
Octavian's voice and demeanor were a little shaky from that last line to Antony til the end. It shows that he still felt emotion in this scene but kept it under superhuman control, which he only relaxed as Antony left.
Watch as Atia walks by him... he opens his mouth as if to say something but doesn't. He was very affected by what had just happened.
Oh, poor Octavian. The women of his family would be his undoing.
Brilliant acting here . They should bring back this series .
I'm still salty we never got the see the badass extraordinaire Agrippa was.
He kicked Antony's ass in the Battle of Actium and sent him crying to Egypt. That was more than enough.
Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor.
For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍
One of my favorite scenes when Anthony realizes Octavian isnt that weak young boy he use to be able to bully.
I loved how they portrayed Octavian in this show, it was like from a young age he fashioned himself into exactly what he needed to be to destroy his enemies
Octavian is my kinda guy. Calls out people for who they really are. Makes you wonder how he could walk dragging those massive balls around with him everywhere lol.
Antony's rage and helplessness at being in a battlefield he is not familiar with is so good. Purefoy carries Season 2.
The actor playing Octavian is so handsome.
lyon laurent So was octavian.
MrAwrsomeness yeah? i haven't read any descriptions of him
lyon laurent upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Augustus_Bevilacqua_Glyptothek_Munich_317.jpg He also slept with loads of woman, Mark Anthony in a real letter to Augustus suspected by the time his letter arrived to him he would have slept with half the female Roman nobles.
+MrAwrsomeness Not bad, he must have been a babe :P
lyon laurent upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Statue-Augustus.jpg Thats the more known statue you can just feel the glory.
and Octavian didn't even blink.
Fucking badass.
Octavian FTW! That's the kind of ruthless manipulative bastard i root for (against other ruthless manipulative bastards!)
This is one of my favorite scenes. The acting is great, the costumes/setpieces are fantastic and the attention to detail in even the social castes and art are terrific, but what sets this series as arguably the best tv historical fiction is the exceptional writing. The script never steps into cliche and the characters personalities fit their lines to a key, not to mention it never dulls itself down for the sake of an audience. Excellent, excellent show.
There are other very good ones:
Les Miserables (2000)
L'homme qui rit (1971)
War and peace (2007 and 2016)
"you are marrying a monster"
Oh, its the other way around.
At the end of this scene, he tells his wife that she should try the songbird with vague tears in his eyes. As he feels the satisfaction comes from defeating his nemesis but at the same time he understands in this path he has chosen, the relationship between him and his family will never be the same.
It had to be done. Not really like he had the best relationship with them anyways
Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you ever imagine
That’s so friggin tough!!!
Go ahead and strike me,, see what happens.. damm that’s gangster right there
that "silence" cut like a knife
Some people think Octavian is a socio or psychopath...acting cold and being unable to express emotions (he clearly had them- think back to when he couldn't stand to see his mother on her knees before him)... He was temperate
unless provoked.
In reality, Octavian let Antony go to Egypt and it
would have ended there had not Antony 'gone native' and in his will,
which augustus read, FORMALLY DECLARED FOR CEASARION (which was a direct
affront to Augustus), GAVE OFF ROMAN PROVINCES TO HIS OWN CHILDREN
WHICH IS TREASON (he had zero right to siphon off provinces), and most
importantly, withheld grain shipments to his OWN COUNTRY, sending the
Roman people into starvation. And the final insult, divorce Augustus'
sister and abandon his family for a foreign wife. Augustus had little
choice but to move against Antony.
Additionally, he ruled for 6 decades and ushered in the greatest era of
peace and prosperity Rome ever knew, the Pax Romana. His rule was
characterized by his temperateness and moral judgment. Even people that
crossed him he often simply exiled.
Many people cry 'but he killed little Ceasarion when he was a child!'.
No, he tolerated Ceasarion until he could no longer afford to do so; at
which time he did order his death-after Ceasarion moved against him and
he WAS 17, NOT A CHILD. The rest of the children by Mark Antony and
Cleopatra, HE RAISED THEM IN HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD, WITH HIS SISTER AS THEIR
MOTHER, and himself as the 'Pater Familia'. Not very tyrant-ish if you
ask me.
Yeah people give Augustus a lot of shit but the man was a genius and brought on the right people to make him look good if nothing else. There's talent in that.
Kids like GOT. Men Like Rome.
Im a adult and liked both .. but then again, check out my last name
Octavian has always been one of my favorite characters.
Agrippa was played dirty in the series. He saved Octavian’s ass more times than you can count. When Octavian got his ass kicked in a battle, there was Agrippa saving the day. He never asked for glory or even tried to overthrow Octavian, he was truly a best bro. Hell, he even helped renovate the city and make sure public baths and fountains were sanitary.
He’s at Octavian’s side at the end of the series and the last glance between him and Octavia suggest that they’ll likely rekindle their affair again so he didn’t make out so badly.
Octavian: Silence!
the World: .....
He wanted to be a poet. But once he decided he was going to play the game, he was in it to win it.
The casting of this show was amazing. Great work from James Purefoy and Ray Stevenson as Mark Anthony and Titus Pullo, and the rest of the actors were just as brilliant as them.
-Silence!
octavian was the importants roman politican and has build a imperium, that has 200 years peace and prosperty. one great person of the history.
subsidia learn English fool
Did you promise to serve your citizens a republic but can't or would prefer not to? No problem! Tonight on "Dinner with Octavian" our friendly host Gaius Octavian Caesar will teach you how to disguise your simple military dictatorship as a fancy oligarchic republic! No one will ever know...
AVE IMPERATOR AUGUSTUS!!! FIRST CLASSICAL EMPEROR OF MANKIND!!!
No no no no, never "imperator", always "priceps" or "first among equals".
Then why aren't emperors called princeps, eh?
FlyingTheDutchman Because Octavian was a master of public relations. He knew that maintaining the facade of the Republic would keep him in the goodwill of the Senate (which was made up of very rich and powerful men who could still cause trouble if they wanted to) and the people of Rome. He was basically emperor in everything but name only.
112steinway He took the title, "The First Among Equals"
Porterhouse They were. In this day and age we call them Emperors, but back then they were not seen as Emperors. Given the strong Roman hatred of monarchy, and faith in its republic, taking an authoritarian title, such as "King" or "Emperor", would have been political suicide.
I love this scene because it parallels what Antony did at the start of the season which changed who Octavian was forever. When he was a child, Antony felt powerful enough to nearly strangle to him to death in his own home, and Antony probably would have if not for Atia. Atia saves his life by shouting he is just a boy. It’s clear Octavian had that moment in his head for years, and has been waiting for it to repeat itself. He became the cold and calculating person he is so that when the time came, Antony would be too afraid to hurt him again. Octavian also wanted the respect he always felt he deserved from his family, and in this scene he finally took absolute control. Basically, he got everything he wanted in a single scene.
Simon Woods is magnificent, as was Max Pirkis, in the role of Octavian. To understand history, you have to have characters who live the role, convincingly. A weakness in so telling of this tale, is that Anthony too shallow, too unintelligent and a coward, which is on its face, is ridiculous. Julius Caesar chose both Octavian and Anthony as his heirs(personal and military) because they were smart and had strength of character to withstand the winds which might come upon his passing. Simon, Max and James Purefoy, pull it off brilliantly. And no review would be complete without praising the magnificent portrayal of Atia of the Julii by Polly Walker. I just have a little problem that the real Atia was nothing like that and apparently recoiled at politics. She was more worried about her son. I think she appreciated Julius Caesar and his being Octavian's Mentor. She was right. Of course, there is the issue that she was no longer of the Julii when she married into her husbands family. But well done, excellent entertainment and brilliant acting.
I'm not sure I agree that Antony was portrayed as unintelligent in the show. Octavian is just more cunning. Antony in the show has a temper, but is often also smart enough to know when he's beaten. Like in this scene, the stupid move would have been to strike Octavian, but he doesn't, because he knows it would be politically imprudent.
@Brian O'Hara - Antony had military cunning for miles and miles. He also had political intelligence - *to a point.* He could take on politics in short spurts, but he was unable to play the long game. And that's what caused his downfall.
I think the show alters the character of most important persons. Octavian likely wasn't a total sociopath, he has his flaws, but likely he feel real friendship with Agrippa and has really loved Livia.
@@SacredDaturana Antony on the show was plenty intelligent, it's just that ultimately he was never doing more than playing a a game - a deadly game for very high stakes, but still, a game. That's one thing that never changed for him through the whole arc of the series. Octavian was very good at playing the game but he also took it very seriously on a level beyond that of a game - from the very first episode he shows a great deal of interest in the well-being and political stability of Rome as a nation and a people, just as Julius Caesar did.
Antony is also shown, correctly IMO, as unable and/or unwilling to rein in his appetites even wen it is in his political interest to do so. He is lecherous and venal to a fault, as opposed to Octavian, who never lets sex get in the way of his political interest and is greedy only to the extent it serves his need for financial resources for his political and military campaigns. But for Antony, having to restrain himself from stealing or screwing whatever and whoever he feels like would spoil the whole point of being powerful.
That silence to his mother was savage.
2:24 "SILENCE"
lol if i tried that at home I think I wouldn't see anymore daylight...
Lmao
This dude was perfect casting would have loved to seen more
This is the scene where Octavian proves himself a worthy successor to his adoptive father, Julius. Brilliant.
I love the reaction marc anthony gives when octavian says hes to marry - so sarcastic
The one qualm I have with this show is that it made Octavian out to be a monumental prick, while descriptions of him called him charming and polite.
3:37-With the way he steps aside, he’s basically saying, “Now get the fuck out of my house!”
That was a fantastic dinner by the way, Octavian...
"I may be weak now, Antony, but when you're dead, I shall ascend this mortal flesh and become greater than Jupiter - I shall become *Brian Blessed*!"
Yeah, but Antony's great-grandson would become Zeus himself.
Best Thanksgiving family reunion ever :D
Even though Antony's hands were on Octavian's throat, Octavian was choking Antony with his stone cold reptilian death stare.
Ave Imperator!
Agrippa - the Ceasar who never was.
OAC actually gave him the princeps ring he got so ill at 1 stage in his rule,he pulled through. I read somewhere that one of Aggrippa's main building projects was going into the sewer system, he had it was cleaned, expanded so more water could be pumped into the city on 2 new aqeducts. No1 wanted the job except Aggrippa.
+edinscot56789 The funny thing about Agrippa is that historians still try to figure out if he was just loyal to the bitter and to Augustus (since he was the only one who could rival Augustus position) or if he just tried to wait until the always sickly Augustus die a natural way. Bad for him that Augustus survived him a long time.
+Otto Karl Agrippa never needed to be emperor. I think he understood that he had the same powers essentially as Augustus anyway.plus the way it was set up, Agrippa's sons would be emperors and rule the empire after Augustus passed. Why jeopardise that? Because Agrippa was low-born, the empire would never accept him as emperor (but was content to have him as second-in-command) but his sons - through their genealogical connection to the emperor through his daughter Julia - would be accepted as Augutus' heirs.