She gave her no respect as a rival. She told her straight out that she had defeated far better women than her. Think she considered her an equal to Cleopatra or Servilia? Hell no she didn't.
sir I think you are mixing up (Plowbeast) Statement I think she said that far better women than you have try. Meaning Servilia and maybe Cleopatra. ps do you mean that Atia thinks that she is better Cleopatra and Servilia?
I think you might have the names confused: Atia told her son's wife Livia that she, Atia, had defeated far better women than Livia, particularly Servilia and Cleopatra. She's showing respect to those who are dead and gone, not her son's wife, who she hates.
"far better woman than you have sworn to do the same" Such an great line. In her last line of the show she shows the deepest respect for Servillia she is capable of.
Except, Atia had been dead for more than a decade. She died in 43 BC, barely a year after Julius Caesar. While I loved the character in season one, she gets so much screen time in season two, it's really off-putting, since in reality she wasn't even alive.
@@legionarybooks13 The sources we have about her life are describing her as a very pure and virtuous woman, so yeah they took a lot of creative freedom in her regards. Im fine with that, because her character is so bad ass!
I like how Octavia is not really a bad person, in rome standards or even by today standards and she still truly loves her mother. The satisfaction she shows in her face near the end when she sees her mother is back to her vicious old self... I love Rome!!!
Some of my women cousins are the sweetest people in the world. Theyre all "turn the other cheek" and "karma" and all that nonsense. They don't approve of my temper, but I tell you what, when somebody messes with them and their cousin Big R shows up and takes care of it, they cant help but love it. Not approve...but they love it. I think that's similar to what Octavia is thinking in regard to her mother.
It's also a sign that Octavia has grown herself as a person and understands the nature of Roman society and one day she may have to dethrone her mother and take her rightful place. Such was the nature of Rome. She loves her mother but she realizes that the relationship of daughter/mother must end and the relationship of ally/rival must begin.
@@Shan_Dalamani Since she was married to Marc Anthony, Augustus' rival, she kinda was. Although in that alternative history, Cleopatra basically has already usurped her.
Because Atia is a survivor. She's not always a winner - but she's unstoppable because she can turn any situation into one where she is the superior force. Who knows what could have happened if we saw her under the rule of Augustus.
@@rileygardner2103 , the gods favor those who help themselves. Servilia, more than once, resort to calling the gods in curses and whatnot to get back at Caesar and Atia. Atia on the other hand, never call the gods in her struggles. She just dive right in and take no prisoners.
Historically, Atia had been dead for more than a decade, having passed away just a year after her uncle, Julius Caesar. So no, she wasn't exactly unstoppable.
Modern consensus among historians is that she never murdered any of her family members.. Robert Graves is mostly at fault for people believing that, same as Augustus never killed her son Drusus. Lots of Romans died in their youth, the early Julio-Claudians were simply unfortunate in that regard. unfortunate.
Atia: ‘I won’t let a vicious little trollop like you walk ahead of me.’ Livia: ‘Well, now I’m definitely getting your granddaughter exiled and tormenting you for eternity when Claudius makes me a goddess.’
“I’m going to massacre the entirety of your family and become a goddess while my own flesh and blood son on the imperial throne, displacing your bloodline, bitch.” - Livia
Yeah, because Augustus is clearly the kind of guy who gets manipulated into exiling his own daughter. It could never possibly have been his own choice…
@@ulyssesocounter8488 thanks for the suggestion. I wasn’t referring to history, though. If I was referring to history, my comment would look like this: Atia: [is dead] Livia: [is not talking to a corpse]
This is, and always will be, the GOAT ending to a TV series. The way she says "go and look for them now", and then the music kicking in, the smile from her daughter. All time great ending.
In real life Atia died before her son's crowning ceremony. Also, she was reported to be a good virtuous woman, not the ruthless schemer she is in the show.
They really needed to do a few seasons of the life of Agippina, from Tiberious marrying her off to a horrible man 30 years her senior, through watching her brother caligua come to power, becoming insane and plotting his removal, to her seducing her uncle Claudious, becoming the defacto leader of rome and eventually her son Nero finally killing her after multiple attempts.
The first series cost HBO and the BBC £9,000,000 an episode. They had to choose between another three watered down series or just the one more done properly.
I'm glad they didn't do more seasons because there was no way they could have followed up a virtually perfect season 1 without disappointing the fan base. I'm happy that it happened, I don't mourn what could have been.
The history may be a little flawed, but the sense of pageantry and inner power struggles is very real and gives a sense of the tensions within the ruling families.... Loved it, wish there were more productions like this.
I like that Livia was left as a decent character in the show. If it had continued she would have run down Atia and Octavia. Historically it's like she was both Servilia and Atia in the show.
Strange how it's almost exactly the same scene as the one with Cersei & Margaery in tone and character. The alpha bitch queen mother and the young power hungry newcomer.
Paul Walsh Why? Being a "power hungry newcomer" is nothing new or inherently bad in Game of Thrones universe :) Actually, we don't know that much about Margaery in the books, she's a much more distant presence than in the series, where it's made clear that she's a complex and intelligent woman who's not immune to the game of thrones' charms and dangers. But yeah, she's way more likeable than her counterpart in Rome :)
Far from insulting Margaery, you are insulting Atia by the comparison to Cersei. For while the tone might be broadly similar, Cersei's foolishness in so brazenly threatening Margaery is not akin to this triumph of Atia over Livia. And we do know plenty of Margaery from the books. Despite not being a point-of-view character, she is not at all distant. Yes confrontations such as that you refer don't happen, but we get more than a good idea about her in those confrontations that do take place between she and Cersei, as well as her incredibly subtle ways of besting Cersei in their game of thrones.
Livia knows what Octavian likes in the bedroom so she can indeed manipulate him if need be and historically does. She, however, succeeds where others fail because she doesn't openly defy him. Atia got her wish a strong son who rules Rome and its vast empire, but she has no control over him and he has no further need for her unless its for ceremonial purposes.
brent catherman i dont think stuff in the bedroom could manipulate octavian though since he was a known womanizier and was sleeping with almost every powerful mans wife or daughters in rome at the time theres even a story about octavian at a dinner party with a powerful senator and the senators wife goes to use the bathroom and octavian leaves to then they both come back together 20 mins later and her hair was all messed up and she was blushing so much her cheeks were red
Masterchief, I love English accents but it is kind of insulting to say a roman character should sound like that.I assume you did not mean by accent though. I always wondered what Italians who understand English thought of the show.
PrinceofGreatness Yeah I felt bad for Sevillia until Caesar was assassinated. He may have been a dictator but he cared about the people. He was for the most part a benevolent dictator. One line really defined him for me. When he was questioned on making Lucius Vorenus a senator. "The senate should be made up of the best men in Rome. Not just the richest men in Italy".
PrinceofGreatness Yeah I felt bad for Sevillia until Caesar was assassinated. He may have been a dictator but he cared about the people. He was for the most part a benevolent dictator. One line really defined him for me. When he was questioned on making Lucius Vorenus a senator. "The senate should be made up of the best men in Rome. Not just the richest men in Italy".
PrinceofGreatness After Sevillia had him killed I loved every moment Atia payed her back. Sevillia was a vicious, spiteful, jealous woman, who was willing to throw the entire Roman Republic into civil war because she had rejection issues. She risked her own sons life, insisting he should be the one to kill Caesar, just to get revenge because she got dumped. She ruined the marriage of a good man, who could have protected Caesar, for the same reason. Sevillia is my least favourite character in the series.
Atia is an amazing character. she starts out so outrageous and blatantly conniving that you kinda hate her, but somehow by the very end you realize she's arguably the main protagonist of the whole series and you're wholeheartedly rooting for her. no one goes through as much crap as her, but no one causes as much crap as her either. and somehow despite it all, just when you think she's finally down for the count, she shows she's still got it in her to smush Livia like a bug. the sheer venom in her "Go and look for them now" is pure legend. it's so satisfying to see her smack Livia down, finally give honor to Servilia, and make peace with her daughter... all in the same scene. so, so good.
I just cannot get into this scene, or Atia's entire story arc in the second season, as historically she died a year after Julius Caesar and never even met Livia. So while her dialog is legendary here, it is also complete bollocks.
@@legionarybooks13 ok but this is historical fiction. pretty sure Caesarion wasn't fathered by some rando roman legionnaire either. Enjoy it for what it is!
@@yaburu yeah i always felt like by the time servilia killed herself, her rivalry with atia had become such a constant in atia's life that it was almost a weird sort of close relationship (just a negative one). and it felt like atia was genuinely shocked and horrified when servilia went out like that
If you look at this and I Claudius- both following the dramas of the Imperial Family in a similar style with HBO’s Rome serving as the prequel of events to I Claudius, I like to imagine that Livia may have drawn some inspiration from Atia. They both were motivated to preserve their family’s legacy and fortune sweeping everything out of their way. In this respect they had some major points in common although their personalities clashed. This is an awesome scene, love the play off between these two women and Octavia’s quiet amusement. Absolutely perfect 👌
I, Claudius Livia was MUCH more intelligent than Rome Atia. We know very little about the real Atia since the histories were written after many decades of imperial propaganda trying to paint her as the ideal Roman matron.
@@brucetucker4847 well yes, we do know only what has survived which means the real Atia may well have been cleverer than she’s being given credit for in your analysis. It’s not just brains though is it. Determination and character saw her through a lot of challenges. I can’t imagine she had an easy time of it. Anyway, both such excellent dramas based on real people, I can’t see myself ever tiring of either show.
The real Livia would have destroyed her. She was the only one who rivaled her husband in intelligence. Livia is a thousand times smarter than Atia will ever be.
@@eponinethenardier7037 The real Atia was a completely different woman. She was the classic, proper Roman matron. Faithful to her husband, made sure her children were raised well, not a breath of scandal. Even as a widow, she apparently carried on as before. Roman widows were allowed some slack. Augustus' worst enemies never said a negative word about her, in short nothing to feed the tabs. Yes, real Livia was a remarkable woman. She was Gus' right hand (wo)man; she quietly ran the domestic side of the Empire. Never made a false step. She probably left a couple of bodies in her wake. Her mother-in-law was never a worry. However, we're talking about characters in a TV series, not historical facts. TV Atia ate any threat to herself or her children with garum.
She made a young early version of the infamous Livia . Although Atia was powerful and put Livia in her place , kudos to Livia too as she also showed the beginning of her own strength and manipulative bad ass ways.
Such an amazing show. Practically all the characters are monsters by modern standards, yet they manage to be relatable and likable. Atia has some of the best character development is TV history and the way her relationship with Octavia evolves is just great. While Octavia hates Atia's guts in season 1, in the end they pretty much only have eachother and they become as close as Pullo and Vorenus.
I don’t know…Julius Ceaser who was known for his mercy would sack Gallic towns that willingly had surrendered and opened their gates for him so that he could repay his debts. Not saying there aren’t a lot of fucked up ppl today, but back then behaviour like that was just the norm
I really wish that HBO would follow Rome up with a reboot of I, Claudius - maybe with some of the original actors from Rome to reprise characters like Augustus and Agrippa? Furthermore, if such were to happen, I wish HBO would cast someone like Zach Galifinakis to play Claudius. Just because it's probably as hard to imagine him in the role as it was to imagine Claudius as Emperor, until it happened.
God if there were only one scene why I love Atia this is the one. "I don't let a vicious little trollop like you walk ahead of me. I go first" LOVE IT!!
This was one of the best TV series I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I wish they would do a remake. The second season was not as good as the first and it could go much longer.
the atia´s character got so popular that they have to keep her alive, in history she dies before servilia and cleopatra... "far better women than you have sworn the same, come find them now" GREAT LINE! she was the only actress nominated for an award!
For "I, Claudius" fans, this is a perfect look at a young Livia at the start of a terrific career of poisonings and assassination by proxy. Although Livia was only 21 at this time, she had already been married and divorced and was the mother of Drusus and future emperor Tiberius.
Yeah. Although Octavian/Augustus are very different characters in the two series, Livia in Rome seems like she could easily grow into the character we see in I, Claudius and I think Rome's Atia is quite clearly inspired by I, Claudius's Livia, so this scene feels like sort of a passing of the torch from one femme fatalle to another.
@@eccentriastes6273 LOL. They forgot about Julia's mother (Augustus' wife before Livia). Oops, no Julia. Oops, no rest of the family. They were never born.
@@brucetucker4847 Octavian married Livia for her aristocratic connections. She married him because she saw a way to eventually rule the Empire through her son, Tiberius. All she had to do was spend the next few decades, killing every male heir and banishing the females when they were no longer of use to her. But omitting Scribonia from this series was monumentally stupid.
@@Shan_Dalamani I don't think Tiberius was Livia's plan A; she wanted to bear an heir for Augustus, but the one time she succeeded in getting pregnant by him it ended in a miscarriage. And she was a very effective partner for him as empress (although that title didn't exist at that time). I love I, Claudius and Sian Phillips was fantastic as Livia, but do keep in mind that it's fiction and Graves chose to include every scurrilous rumor about Livia and then add a few of his own creation (e.g. Livilla falsely accusing Postumus of rape, which never happened IRL). Most modern historians think her alleged misdeeds were exaggerated. Also, you might want to remember that she is a goddess before speaking ill of her. ;-)
You probably know that Atia wasn’t even alive at the time of Octavian’s triumph; she died in 43 B.C., the year after Julius Caesar was assassinated, but at least she lived long enough to see Octavian named the successor in Julius Caesar’s will. Despite the time screwup, Polly Walker was SO good. One of the best scenes with the best put-down I’ve ever seen on a television program or in a movie!!!
I think Polly Walker's(Atia) acting was the most important factor that gave the illusion that the characters in this series really lived in Rome. And you can't see this illusion in any other Roman themed production, you only see the scenario of how today's people would be if they lived in Rome.
I just love the "Far better women than you". She defeated Servilia, but she was no idiot: she knew she was dealing with a true rival. Even in death she practically ruined her life. But ATIA PREVAILS!
both of them play the role of "snake in garden of eden" type charachter in different ways, livia in i claudius uses guile and cunning, whereas Atia uses her sexuality and charm more. they're certainly the driving forces behind both series, though Livia takes evil to a whole new level. i also got to i claudius via Rome, and both are fantastic in very different ways.
ATIA OF THE JULII. Power was her ultimate ambition. Heartbreak was her final destiny. 💔 POLLY WALKER DESERVED AN EMMY NOMINATION AS BEST LEAD ACTRESS IN A DRAMA SERIES.
This series twists history so much...Livia Drusilla was the love of Octavian's life, his devoted wife, adviser and depending on which historian you read, a master manipulator. She lived to a grand old age of 80-something, which is like living up to 120 years old today considering women's life span was short at a time when many women died during childbirth. Livia's and Octavia's love story was equally as scandalous as Anthony and Cleopatra's. She was married to a man who was against Octavian, already mother of one son (future emperor Tiberius) and pregnant with another, the future Drussus, (father to Emperor Claudius and grandfather to the infamous Caligula). Octavian saw her, fell in love with her and ordered her husband to divorce her and married her. Three months after the marriage she gave birth to her second son. Although she and Octavian were married for more than 50 years, they had no children. She had a power over Augustus in terms of having his ear and influence over him. She tolerated his affairs although she herself was very faithful to him. She also managed to get her son to become the emperor. Now that's a strong woman! Will we see this powerful woman recreated on the small screen??
FFS. I, Claudius was broadcast over 45 years ago. Sian Phillips played Livia, and I defy any actress now or future to do it better. You can't improve on perfection.
It actually is kinda sad how it all ends. All of atias scheming, her journeys of ambition, and at the end, shes pretty much just exhausted doesnt give two shits anymore. They really did a good job of giving this series good closure
God I love Atia. Always have, and I always will love this scene. She is so amazing. She doesnt fear no one,she is a loving mother ( in her own weird way), and now she has to see her son made emperor and she should love it, but she doesnt. Because Octavian isnt himself anymore, he is turned into Atia in male form. And she doenst like that at all. I love the tears in her eyes when she sees the Antony doll. I felt bad for her.
Tremendous shame that Rome didn't go on into a third season, I would have loved to see what was going to happen with Livia because the poor girl didn't get much of a run in the series (I would have also liked to see Tiberius but all he got was a mention). At any rate the movie is really something to look forward to
"I don't need to destroy you, you do it very well yourself." would have been the correct answer. Atia is an awful snake, who deserved to be brutaly murdered in a dark alley. One of the best moment of the series is when Octavian sends Antonius away from her and got her escorted to her house like a prisonner. There you can see how horrified she is not to be in control anymore.
No way livia would have turned the tables on Atia. Not only does Atia have far more experience, but also I think she scared the shit out of her. Remember, this Livia is in her 20s, she isn't the seasoned pro like she was in Claudius. Livia never really had enemies in Claudius, so we don't know what her courage is like if somebody is on to her. I don't think she wants anything to do with Atia and hopes she just stays away and the sooner she dies on her own, the better.
The historical Atia by all accounts was more like Krystle while Rome's Atia was Alexis times ten. Personally, I love the way Atia put that upstart Livia in her proper place....the historical Livia was no match for the fictional Atia, that is for sure.
The literary Livia would just have Atia poisoned, as she supposedly had to do with Augustus, in the end, when he was going to disinherit Tiberius, Livia's son by a previous marriage.
3 GREAT MOTHERS OF EPIC TV DRAMAS : POLLY WALKER as ATIA OF THE JULII in ROME. LENA HEADLEY as CERSEI LANNISTER in GAME OF THRONES. JAIME MURRAY as STAHMA TARR in DEFIANCE.
Such an unbelievable show this was OH, if anyone should happen to read this, I really recommend this podcast called "Emperors of Rome". They go through each emperor, plus a bunch of other topics. They also have a companion pod called "Raising Standards", in which they go through each episode of HBO's Rome, commenting on historical authenticity, accuracy and other stuff.
She does have a point. The Roman civil war was between Atia's family and Sevilla's family. And the war with Egypt was between Atia's son, and Atia's lover Anthony. This lady is at the center of all Rome's politics when she was historically alive.
Same here. When I watched the series the first time, I thought she was a great character, but I didn't like her... until this scene. When I saw Rome a second time, I was very fond of her throughout the entire series.
Atia is what Cersei wants to be, but never can
Wesley Molt
Olenna Redwyne, the Queen of Thorns, is more corresponding with Atia (the actress of Olenna has also been quite a beauty in her youth).
Hahaha!! Brilliantly put! Made my day.
Wesley Molt LMFAO sooooo true
bluerisk Agreed
It's almost touching that in the end, Atia gave a little respect to Servilia as her greatest rival in the show.
She gave her no respect as a rival. She told her straight out that she had defeated far better women than her. Think she considered her an equal to Cleopatra or Servilia? Hell no she didn't.
It seemed respect
sir I think you are mixing up (Plowbeast) Statement I think she said that far better women than you have try. Meaning Servilia and maybe Cleopatra. ps do you mean that Atia thinks that she is better Cleopatra and Servilia?
I think you might have the names confused: Atia told her son's wife Livia that she, Atia, had defeated far better women than Livia, particularly Servilia and Cleopatra. She's showing respect to those who are dead and gone, not her son's wife, who she hates.
Plowbeast exactly. "Even enemies can show respect!"
"far better woman than you have sworn to do the same"
Such an great line. In her last line of the show she shows the deepest respect for Servillia she is capable of.
I'd say it was a nod to Servilla and Cleopatra.
And then Livia proved she was better than them all.
@@Angel-nu7fm she killed atia?!!!
Except, Atia had been dead for more than a decade. She died in 43 BC, barely a year after Julius Caesar. While I loved the character in season one, she gets so much screen time in season two, it's really off-putting, since in reality she wasn't even alive.
@@legionarybooks13 The sources we have about her life are describing her as a very pure and virtuous woman, so yeah they took a lot of creative freedom in her regards. Im fine with that, because her character is so bad ass!
I like how Octavia is not really a bad person, in rome standards or even by today standards and she still truly loves her mother. The satisfaction she shows in her face near the end when she sees her mother is back to her vicious old self...
I love Rome!!!
Some of my women cousins are the sweetest people in the world. Theyre all "turn the other cheek" and "karma" and all that nonsense. They don't approve of my temper, but I tell you what, when somebody messes with them and their cousin Big R shows up and takes care of it, they cant help but love it. Not approve...but they love it. I think that's similar to what Octavia is thinking in regard to her mother.
It's also a sign that Octavia has grown herself as a person and understands the nature of Roman society and one day she may have to dethrone her mother and take her rightful place. Such was the nature of Rome. She loves her mother but she realizes that the relationship of daughter/mother must end and the relationship of ally/rival must begin.
Female vanity.
@@cretinousjester3475 Octavia was never a rival to become Empress.
@@Shan_Dalamani Since she was married to Marc Anthony, Augustus' rival, she kinda was. Although in that alternative history, Cleopatra basically has already usurped her.
Let us never forget the badassery of the Atia of the Julii. That last line was the greatest way to sum up this character. Atia is unstoppable.
Don't you love her? I do! That woman has gone through everything, yet she's still standing.
+Riley Gardner If she's so unstoppable then why did Octavian shamelessly parade her lover's corpse all over the city right after this scene?
Because Atia is a survivor. She's not always a winner - but she's unstoppable because she can turn any situation into one where she is the superior force. Who knows what could have happened if we saw her under the rule of Augustus.
@@rileygardner2103 , the gods favor those who help themselves. Servilia, more than once, resort to calling the gods in curses and whatnot to get back at Caesar and Atia. Atia on the other hand, never call the gods in her struggles. She just dive right in and take no prisoners.
Historically, Atia had been dead for more than a decade, having passed away just a year after her uncle, Julius Caesar. So no, she wasn't exactly unstoppable.
The moment when Livia decided to poison everyone in that family.
best comment ever
@Ashley Spurling Atia died four years before this...they never met
@Ashley Spurling Yes, Livia poisoned and killed the entire Jura branch of her husbands family
Modern consensus among historians is that she never murdered any of her family members.. Robert Graves is mostly at fault for people believing that, same as Augustus never killed her son Drusus. Lots of Romans died in their youth, the early Julio-Claudians were simply unfortunate in that regard. unfortunate.
@@ulyssesocounter8488 Graves wasn't the reason people believe she's a murderer Tacitius is. He was the one who made the hypothesis first.
Atia was like, "Bitch please."
Polly Walker's eyes are like piercing daggers. Wow! One of my favorite scenes.
Desperate Housewives of Rome.
underrated comment
I'd watch that
😂😂😂
More like Real Housewives of Rome. Atia gives off serious Vanderpump vibes
💀 🤣🤣
Love this scene. It screams "THE BITCH IS BACK"
The best "Oh my god, I hate my mother-in-law" moment ever. And the best closing scene for a television villaness as well.
Atia: ‘I won’t let a vicious little trollop like you walk ahead of me.’
Livia: ‘Well, now I’m definitely getting your granddaughter exiled and tormenting you for eternity when Claudius makes me a goddess.’
“I’m going to massacre the entirety of your family and become a goddess while my own flesh and blood son on the imperial throne, displacing your bloodline, bitch.” - Livia
Yeah, because Augustus is clearly the kind of guy who gets manipulated into exiling his own daughter. It could never possibly have been his own choice…
@@ulyssesocounter8488 I’m guessing you haven’t seen _I, Claudius_ then.
@@Cybermat47 I suppose you never read any serious historical biography then. Read Antony Barrett’s Livia, it’s a good start.
@@ulyssesocounter8488 thanks for the suggestion. I wasn’t referring to history, though. If I was referring to history, my comment would look like this:
Atia: [is dead]
Livia: [is not talking to a corpse]
This is, and always will be, the GOAT ending to a TV series. The way she says "go and look for them now", and then the music kicking in, the smile from her daughter. All time great ending.
Atia has no idea how powerful Livia will become.
History has nothing to do with them. Atia was completely different in real life.
@array s?
In real life Atia died before her son's crowning ceremony. Also, she was reported to be a good virtuous woman, not the ruthless schemer she is in the show.
@array s and where did I say smth opposite to this?
array s yes no instead people should trust random armchair Wikipedia historians in the comments section 🙄
Atia was the whole show... great character and Polly did an amazing job
I always loved Atia. I remember seeing this scene for the first time and just being in awe of her...gets me every time.
I loved this series and wish it had been continued. the acting, the history, the cosuomes and sets are spectacular.
They really needed to do a few seasons of the life of Agippina, from Tiberious marrying her off to a horrible man 30 years her senior, through watching her brother caligua come to power, becoming insane and plotting his removal, to her seducing her uncle Claudious, becoming the defacto leader of rome and eventually her son Nero finally killing her after multiple attempts.
The first series cost HBO and the BBC £9,000,000 an episode. They had to choose between another three watered down series or just the one more done properly.
Same here..bad move on hbos part. They should consider it again. I've watch it at least 5 timed
I'm glad they didn't do more seasons because there was no way they could have followed up a virtually perfect season 1 without disappointing the fan base. I'm happy that it happened, I don't mourn what could have been.
@@MegaMoose1989 WTF are you talking about? Agrippina married her cousin Germanicus. If you mean Agrippina the Younger, say so.
Such a perfect transition for Rome to the Livia in I Claudius
The acting on this show was a masterpiece
All those British actors raised the standards.
The history may be a little flawed, but the sense of pageantry and inner power struggles is very real and gives a sense of the tensions within the ruling families.... Loved it, wish there were more productions like this.
I like that they added this scene, yet in history, Livia pretty much had the last laugh over everyone
This series meshes so well with I Claudius and the actress playing Livia is magnificent in that.
@@gm2407 yeah I watch I Claudius as a sequel to this lol
I like that Livia was left as a decent character in the show. If it had continued she would have run down Atia and Octavia. Historically it's like she was both Servilia and Atia in the show.
Did she
@@paulcalder9697 she killed like 6 of Augustus’ heirs until her own son got the job so…
Oh this makes me wish they'd continued the show into Octavian's reign just to see livia and atia go head to head more often!
They'd have had to explain the absence of Octavian's daughter, since they eliminated her mother.
We have I, Claudius for that!
Strange how it's almost exactly the same scene as the one with Cersei & Margaery in tone and character. The alpha bitch queen mother and the young power hungry newcomer.
Kind of insulting Margery there aren't you?
Paul Walsh Why? Being a "power hungry newcomer" is nothing new or inherently bad in Game of Thrones universe :)
Actually, we don't know that much about Margaery in the books, she's a much more distant presence than in the series, where it's made clear that she's a complex and intelligent woman who's not immune to the game of thrones' charms and dangers.
But yeah, she's way more likeable than her counterpart in Rome :)
Far from insulting Margaery, you are insulting Atia by the comparison to Cersei. For while the tone might be broadly similar, Cersei's foolishness in so brazenly threatening Margaery is not akin to this triumph of Atia over Livia.
And we do know plenty of Margaery from the books. Despite not being a point-of-view character, she is not at all distant. Yes confrontations such as that you refer don't happen, but we get more than a good idea about her in those confrontations that do take place between she and Cersei, as well as her incredibly subtle ways of besting Cersei in their game of thrones.
Livia knows what Octavian likes in the bedroom so she can indeed manipulate him if need be and historically does. She, however, succeeds where others fail because she doesn't openly defy him. Atia got her wish a strong son who rules Rome and its vast empire, but she has no control over him and he has no further need for her unless its for ceremonial purposes.
brent catherman i dont think stuff in the bedroom could manipulate octavian though since he was a known womanizier and was sleeping with almost every powerful mans wife or daughters in rome at the time theres even a story about octavian at a dinner party with a powerful senator and the senators wife goes to use the bathroom and octavian leaves to then they both come back together 20 mins later and her hair was all messed up and she was blushing so much her cheeks were red
This scene still gives me the chills after seeing it originally on HBO.
Watch I Claudius and you will not feel sorry for livia.
@@AK-tf3fc You will by the 6th episode.
Atia: " Who died and made you first woman of Rome?"
Livia: "..."
Funny, because historically, Atia had been dead for thirteen years by the time this scene would have taken place.
"Bruh"
Checking in. Pangs of nostalgia. Still miss this show.
see, writers of spartacus...this is how a strong female roman character should look and sound like
Masterchief Illythia was awesome.And she caused more harm to Sartacus than anyone else.
Ok, Batiatus aside.
But her stunt with Varro...
Masterchief Why do you think that? In my opinion the female characters in Spartacus were written brilliantly.
maranda ruiz
would that be before or after they got their tits out and became pornstars for 35 minutes?
I thought the writers did fine job with Saxa and Naevia, Licinia and Mira
Masterchief,
I love English accents but it is kind of insulting to say a roman character should sound like that.I assume you did not mean by accent though.
I always wondered what Italians who understand English thought of the show.
Atia being perfect as usual.
I hated her through out the series, in this moment, she became my favorite character.
nah men i hated servilla! she caused all that hell because of cesar rejecting her
PrinceofGreatness Yeah I felt bad for Sevillia until Caesar was assassinated. He may have been a dictator but he cared about the people. He was for the most part a benevolent dictator. One line really defined him for me. When he was questioned on making Lucius Vorenus a senator. "The senate should be made up of the best men in Rome. Not just the richest men in Italy".
PrinceofGreatness Yeah I felt bad for Sevillia until Caesar was assassinated. He may have been a dictator but he cared about the people. He was for the most part a benevolent dictator. One line really defined him for me. When he was questioned on making Lucius Vorenus a senator. "The senate should be made up of the best men in Rome. Not just the richest men in Italy".
PrinceofGreatness After Sevillia had him killed I loved every moment Atia payed her back. Sevillia was a vicious, spiteful, jealous woman, who was willing to throw the entire Roman Republic into civil war because she had rejection issues. She risked her own sons life, insisting he should be the one to kill Caesar, just to get revenge because she got dumped. She ruined the marriage of a good man, who could have protected Caesar, for the same reason. Sevillia is my least favourite character in the series.
Satan Himself and who started the rumors that caused the break up?
Atia is an amazing character. she starts out so outrageous and blatantly conniving that you kinda hate her, but somehow by the very end you realize she's arguably the main protagonist of the whole series and you're wholeheartedly rooting for her. no one goes through as much crap as her, but no one causes as much crap as her either. and somehow despite it all, just when you think she's finally down for the count, she shows she's still got it in her to smush Livia like a bug. the sheer venom in her "Go and look for them now" is pure legend. it's so satisfying to see her smack Livia down, finally give honor to Servilia, and make peace with her daughter... all in the same scene. so, so good.
I just cannot get into this scene, or Atia's entire story arc in the second season, as historically she died a year after Julius Caesar and never even met Livia. So while her dialog is legendary here, it is also complete bollocks.
@@legionarybooks13 ok but this is historical fiction. pretty sure Caesarion wasn't fathered by some rando roman legionnaire either. Enjoy it for what it is!
Dus wasnt the character that went trough most crap that has to be vorenus.
Damn, I hadn't thought of it in that regards. Atia giving honor to Servilia I mean. Nice catch.
@@yaburu yeah i always felt like by the time servilia killed herself, her rivalry with atia had become such a constant in atia's life that it was almost a weird sort of close relationship (just a negative one). and it felt like atia was genuinely shocked and horrified when servilia went out like that
If you look at this and I Claudius- both following the dramas of the Imperial Family in a similar style with HBO’s Rome serving as the prequel of events to I Claudius, I like to imagine that Livia may have drawn some inspiration from Atia. They both were motivated to preserve their family’s legacy and fortune sweeping everything out of their way. In this respect they had some major points in common although their personalities clashed. This is an awesome scene, love the play off between these two women and Octavia’s quiet amusement. Absolutely perfect 👌
I, Claudius Livia was MUCH more intelligent than Rome Atia. We know very little about the real Atia since the histories were written after many decades of imperial propaganda trying to paint her as the ideal Roman matron.
@@brucetucker4847 well yes, we do know only what has survived which means the real Atia may well have been cleverer than she’s being given credit for in your analysis. It’s not just brains though is it. Determination and character saw her through a lot of challenges. I can’t imagine she had an easy time of it. Anyway, both such excellent dramas based on real people, I can’t see myself ever tiring of either show.
"I know who you are... I can see it"
Truly a Roman viper acknowledging another.
I will never forgive this show for showing great Livia like this, but they did a magnificent job in inventing such character as Atia.
We will always have the Livia of I Claudius
Love Octivia's little smirk. "That's my bad ass mom.'
The real Livia would have destroyed her. She was the only one who rivaled her husband in intelligence.
Livia is a thousand times smarter than Atia will ever be.
@@eponinethenardier7037 The real Atia was a completely different woman. She was the classic, proper Roman matron. Faithful to her husband, made sure her children were raised well, not a breath of scandal. Even as a widow, she apparently carried on as before. Roman widows were allowed some slack. Augustus' worst enemies never said a negative word about her, in short nothing to feed the tabs.
Yes, real Livia was a remarkable woman. She was Gus' right hand (wo)man; she quietly ran the domestic side of the Empire. Never made a false step. She probably left a couple of bodies in her wake. Her mother-in-law was never a worry.
However, we're talking about characters in a TV series, not historical facts.
TV Atia ate any threat to herself or her children with garum.
@@graceskerp Real life Atia also dies before the moment depicted in this scene, so she was already out of the picture.
@@eponinethenardier7037 She did destroyed her by killing her sons.
This scene lives in my head rent free. Atia is in my top 3 tv characters of all time.
For the first and final time ever in the series we see Octavia proud of her mother
That end shot, brilliantly filmed.
Shades of I Claudius. I miss both shows.
She made a young early version of the infamous Livia . Although Atia was powerful and put Livia in her place , kudos to Livia too as she also showed the beginning of her own strength and manipulative bad ass ways.
Such an amazing show. Practically all the characters are monsters by modern standards, yet they manage to be relatable and likable. Atia has some of the best character development is TV history and the way her relationship with Octavia evolves is just great. While Octavia hates Atia's guts in season 1, in the end they pretty much only have eachother and they become as close as Pullo and Vorenus.
Modern standards have produced some of the worst villains in history- these people are small time game compared to the likes of recent leaders.
I don’t know…Julius Ceaser who was known for his mercy would sack Gallic towns that willingly had surrendered and opened their gates for him so that he could repay his debts. Not saying there aren’t a lot of fucked up ppl today, but back then behaviour like that was just the norm
Poison is Queen
I really wish that HBO would follow Rome up with a reboot of I, Claudius - maybe with some of the original actors from Rome to reprise characters like Augustus and Agrippa?
Furthermore, if such were to happen, I wish HBO would cast someone like Zach Galifinakis to play Claudius. Just because it's probably as hard to imagine him in the role as it was to imagine Claudius as Emperor, until it happened.
Some time later, Atia died of food poisoning after eating a fig
God if there were only one scene why I love Atia this is the one.
"I don't let a vicious little trollop like you walk ahead of me. I go first" LOVE IT!!
“ a vicious little trollop” 😂😂😂😂😂
I LOVE this scene...it's the best in the whole show, and a great way to end the series.
my favorite part of the whole series!!! thanks so much for posting this :D
i think this is atia's greatest moment in the show.
Unfortunately it is NOT so great when you know what Livia accomplishes afterwards.
Attia was the best character and Polly walker did her great justice.
Sorry, but James Purefoy was the best actor in the series by a mile. He was born to play Antony.
This was one of the best TV series I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I wish they would do a remake. The second season was not as good as the first and it could go much longer.
It really is amazing
the atia´s character got so popular that they have to keep her alive, in history she dies before servilia and cleopatra...
"far better women than you have sworn the same, come find them now" GREAT LINE!
she was the only actress nominated for an award!
@Dan ikr. So iconic to be ignored.
For "I, Claudius" fans, this is a perfect look at a young Livia at the start of a terrific career of poisonings and assassination by proxy. Although Livia was only 21 at this time, she had already been married and divorced and was the mother of Drusus and future emperor Tiberius.
Yeah. Although Octavian/Augustus are very different characters in the two series, Livia in Rome seems like she could easily grow into the character we see in I, Claudius and I think Rome's Atia is quite clearly inspired by I, Claudius's Livia, so this scene feels like sort of a passing of the torch from one femme fatalle to another.
@@eccentriastes6273 LOL. They forgot about Julia's mother (Augustus' wife before Livia). Oops, no Julia. Oops, no rest of the family. They were never born.
@@Shan_Dalamani To be fair, Augustus wanted to forget about Julia's mother too. He divorced her the day Julia was born.
@@brucetucker4847 Octavian married Livia for her aristocratic connections. She married him because she saw a way to eventually rule the Empire through her son, Tiberius. All she had to do was spend the next few decades, killing every male heir and banishing the females when they were no longer of use to her.
But omitting Scribonia from this series was monumentally stupid.
@@Shan_Dalamani I don't think Tiberius was Livia's plan A; she wanted to bear an heir for Augustus, but the one time she succeeded in getting pregnant by him it ended in a miscarriage. And she was a very effective partner for him as empress (although that title didn't exist at that time).
I love I, Claudius and Sian Phillips was fantastic as Livia, but do keep in mind that it's fiction and Graves chose to include every scurrilous rumor about Livia and then add a few of his own creation (e.g. Livilla falsely accusing Postumus of rape, which never happened IRL). Most modern historians think her alleged misdeeds were exaggerated.
Also, you might want to remember that she is a goddess before speaking ill of her. ;-)
You know a show is great when it has the audience cheering for a character as morally reprehensible as Atia.
You probably know that Atia wasn’t even alive at the time of Octavian’s triumph; she died in 43 B.C., the year after Julius Caesar was assassinated, but at least she lived long enough to see Octavian named the successor in Julius Caesar’s will.
Despite the time screwup, Polly Walker was SO good. One of the best scenes with the best put-down I’ve ever seen on a television program or in a movie!!!
For some reason, this scene works really well if you think of it as a prequel to the events in "I Claudius".
Nope.
It's so cool that Alice Henley could easily be a young Sian Phillips.
That's simply the best of many best bits of this series .. awesome.
This may be the only time in the entire series Atia has made Octavia smile. Nice to see the poor girl finally get some joy out of her mother.
It is worth watching I Claudius after this.
I think Polly Walker's(Atia) acting was the most important factor that gave the illusion that the characters in this series really lived in Rome. And you can't see this illusion in any other Roman themed production, you only see the scenario of how today's people would be if they lived in Rome.
this show had so many great characters
What's funny is that Atia was long dead by this time. But Servillia was still alive and kicking.
HBO never ceases to amaze me by how well they can blow me away.
love it. one of my favorite parts of the series.
I just love the "Far better women than you". She defeated Servilia, but she was no idiot: she knew she was dealing with a true rival. Even in death she practically ruined her life. But ATIA PREVAILS!
both of them play the role of "snake in garden of eden" type charachter in different ways, livia in i claudius uses guile and cunning, whereas Atia uses her sexuality and charm more. they're certainly the driving forces behind both series, though Livia takes evil to a whole new level. i also got to i claudius via Rome, and both are fantastic in very different ways.
Oh *snap* :D I love Atia
ATIA OF THE JULII.
Power was her ultimate ambition.
Heartbreak was her final destiny. 💔
POLLY WALKER DESERVED AN EMMY
NOMINATION AS BEST LEAD ACTRESS
IN A DRAMA SERIES.
This series twists history so much...Livia Drusilla was the love of Octavian's life, his devoted wife, adviser and depending on which historian you read, a master manipulator. She lived to a grand old age of 80-something, which is like living up to 120 years old today considering women's life span was short at a time when many women died during childbirth. Livia's and Octavia's love story was equally as scandalous as Anthony and Cleopatra's. She was married to a man who was against Octavian, already mother of one son (future emperor Tiberius) and pregnant with another, the future Drussus, (father to Emperor Claudius and grandfather to the infamous Caligula). Octavian saw her, fell in love with her and ordered her husband to divorce her and married her. Three months after the marriage she gave birth to her second son. Although she and Octavian were married for more than 50 years, they had no children. She had a power over Augustus in terms of having his ear and influence over him. She tolerated his affairs although she herself was very faithful to him. She also managed to get her son to become the emperor. Now that's a strong woman! Will we see this powerful woman recreated on the small screen??
if Romans lived past 20, they lived longer than we do
Watch I Claudius
@@raphwalker9123 there’s a new show just about Livia called Domina
@@Kingedwardiii2003 nice i will chek it out thanks
FFS. I, Claudius was broadcast over 45 years ago. Sian Phillips played Livia, and I defy any actress now or future to do it better. You can't improve on perfection.
It actually is kinda sad how it all ends. All of atias scheming, her journeys of ambition, and at the end, shes pretty much just exhausted doesnt give two shits anymore. They really did a good job of giving this series good closure
God I love Atia. Always have, and I always will love this scene. She is so amazing. She doesnt fear no one,she is a loving mother ( in her own weird way), and now she has to see her son made emperor and she should love it, but she doesnt. Because Octavian isnt himself anymore, he is turned into Atia in male form. And she doenst like that at all. I love the tears in her eyes when she sees the Antony doll. I felt bad for her.
When the doors open at the end reminds me of _Elizabeth_ when Queen Elizabeth finally adopts her iconic look.
Tremendous shame that Rome didn't go on into a third season, I would have loved to see what was going to happen with Livia because the poor girl didn't get much of a run in the series (I would have also liked to see Tiberius but all he got was a mention). At any rate the movie is really something to look forward to
A bop to this day. TO THIS DAY!! 😤
"I don't need to destroy you, you do it very well yourself." would have been the correct answer. Atia is an awful snake, who deserved to be brutaly murdered in a dark alley. One of the best moment of the series is when Octavian sends Antonius away from her and got her escorted to her house like a prisonner. There you can see how horrified she is not to be in control anymore.
Dear Atia, my absolute favorite part of this show, next to Pullo. I wish they would have hooked up just once.
go polly go polly !!!!!!!!!!!!
such a shame a third season wasn't made so that we could see livia turn the tables and make atia eat her words.
+jonathan smith - but at least you can see how Livia developed in "I Claudius"
No way livia would have turned the tables on Atia. Not only does Atia have far more experience, but also I think she scared the shit out of her. Remember, this Livia is in her 20s, she isn't the seasoned pro like she was in Claudius. Livia never really had enemies in Claudius, so we don't know what her courage is like if somebody is on to her. I don't think she wants anything to do with Atia and hopes she just stays away and the sooner she dies on her own, the better.
The historical Atia by all accounts was more like Krystle while Rome's Atia was Alexis times ten. Personally, I love the way Atia put that upstart Livia in her proper place....the historical Livia was no match for the fictional Atia, that is for sure.
The literary Livia would just have Atia poisoned, as she supposedly had to do with Augustus, in the end, when he was going to disinherit Tiberius, Livia's son by a previous marriage.
@@BigBadassR Antony had more experience than Octavian, and we all saw how that played out.
The young woman is Livia, and she stayed married to Octavian-Caesar Augustus for 50 years!
This this is magnificent
For me, Atia restored her whole reputation in two minutes.
It’s good to see that she’s back to her normal self
3 GREAT MOTHERS OF EPIC TV DRAMAS :
POLLY WALKER as ATIA OF THE JULII
in ROME.
LENA HEADLEY as CERSEI LANNISTER
in GAME OF THRONES.
JAIME MURRAY as STAHMA TARR
in DEFIANCE.
@d wood Not to be confused with
Livia Soprano portrayed by Nancy Marchand on The Sopranos.
I love Atia. Strong, Vicious, A Survivor.... A woman after my own Heart.
Absolutely, good observation!
Such an unbelievable show this was
OH, if anyone should happen to read this, I really recommend this podcast called "Emperors of Rome". They go through each emperor, plus a bunch of other topics. They also have a companion pod called "Raising Standards", in which they go through each episode of HBO's Rome, commenting on historical authenticity, accuracy and other stuff.
the best moment of the series
Livia will wrap Augustus around her finger in a way Atia never could.
And lovingly tend to his fig 🌳...
Good one - subbed.
I love how she put that bitch in her place and even took a moment to recognise Servilia's value as a rival.
god I miss this show... but I miss Atia even more. she was the main reason why i watched hehe
She does have a point. The Roman civil war was between Atia's family and Sevilla's family. And the war with Egypt was between Atia's son, and Atia's lover Anthony. This lady is at the center of all Rome's politics when she was historically alive.
CHILLS!!!!!
It is an art. An art many try to pull off but few can actually do.
And history will call us wives.
Cool scene and I liked it.
Same here. When I watched the series the first time, I thought she was a great character, but I didn't like her... until this scene. When I saw Rome a second time, I was very fond of her throughout the entire series.
Atia dominated the whole show. Without her i would`ve been much.
Atia never disappoints 👏👏👏
Octavia is so awesome