Jingles, when I was a young tanker back in the late 70s I had the opportunity to be part of an exchange crew that lived and worked with the 10th Panzer Division (Bundeswehr). For 90 days I got to live and work as a Bundeswehr armor crewman and learned how to drive, gun, and load the (then new) Leopards. I even got to drive the tank underwater, a very surreal experience watching water leak up through the escape hatch seals. We even had to learn how to use emergency escape scuba equipment. How many tanks do you know of that come equipped with their own scuba equipment? But I have to agree, there is no sound like the sound of a Leopard on full throttle. What surprised me was how responsive and freaking fast that tank was. Although the electronic semi-manual transmission took a little getting used to. Still an absolutely GLORIOUS tank to have the opportunity to operate!!
redknight1322, I was in 3rd Armored Division, June 1975-August 1977. I got to see plenty of Leopard 1s; however, it was always at some kind of ceremony, as I was in the Division Band. I envy you! By the time I was commissioned in the Army National Guard in 1985, Armor was not a viable career branch where I was, so I ended up as a Field Artillery officer (which I do not regret). Still, I have always been fascinated by tanks!
Your right about how responsive it is, better than a Leopard 2. It's up at full speed in no time and it doesn't lose much speed when turning. All of my tanks Leopard 1 A3 and A5 DK did over 50 km/h in soft sand or dirt and around 70 km/h on hard ground or road. The leaking under water is a matter of preparation and maintenance.
I remember a few years back, I saw the Dutch army during a small beach landing exercise. They brought a Leopard 1 Driver Training Tank in a landing craft along in case any of the boats got stranded on the sand. Long story short, the large landing craft came back in to pick up the beach crew and the tank and THAT got stuck on a sandbank on its way out (they must have missed the sandbank on the way in). For a couple of minutes, we wondered how they were going to get free when the tank engine started up again (glorious sound) and you could just see the raised cab going backwards and forwards in the craft, rocking the boat. That shifted it :)
Was the driver on a Leopard 1 ARV a few years ago in the Norwegian army. The sound is truly like anything else, the very air in your lungs vibrate when that V10 hits 2200 RPM under load. Will also agree on how responsive they are to driver input. We did not have the same power/weight ratio as the Leo 2's and CV90's we were supporting, but it just bucked and roared off the line while they were still dragging their feet and spooling up their turbos. Off-road I reckon the only armored vehicles that could hang with us would be the upgraded M113's some units had, which had 330 angry ponies pulling 13-14 tonnes around. The Leo 1 is the muscle-car of the tank world.
Bit of trivia for you Jingles. Originally, the Germans wanted to make the Leopard 1 quiet, but couldn't manage it with that mega power pack, so they went the other way. The exhaust is designed to throw the engine noise out, in a barrelling manner (hard to explain). By doing this, as you well know, they sound awesome, but also in the field you can't pin point their direction. All you know is, is that there is a panzer on the battlefield, and you best be proper scared. Had the pleasure of being a driver and loader/operator for a time.
Was going to comment the same thing, drove one in my national service days in the Norwegian army. Instead of making it as quiet as possible the germans decided to use the sound as extra psychological warfare.The exhaust were "thrown out" to the sides as wide as possible both to make it hard to pinpoint the location and also to diffuse the heat signature. From memory it has a 830hp engine which I believe they said originally was designed for use in some boat. Some great engineering, the whole engine could be taken out and replaced in less than 30 minutes by a trained crew.
I was at a Bundeswehr-event last year in Munster, Germany (there is also the german tank museum) where pretty much all euqipment was on display. You could enter all the tanks, including both older and top of the line models, as well as handle multiple small arms. MG3 (modern day MG34), AK, UZI included. One could also roam around some barracks and maintenance hangars. We got to talk (im german) with actual mechanics and a tank officer who where maintaining leopard 2s. The whole engine block was there on the test outdide of the tank and running, so we got first hand lung-flapping expericence, that was the best part of the day! The mechanic was putting it through its paces (we were handed earplugs), and afterwards he and the officer chatted with us. I can only recommend going there, visting the museum was also very nice!
I was recently visiting the Panzermuseum Munster (Germany) which had a similar event, although smaller in scale and with a smaller arena. It's called "Stahl auf der Heide" and it's once a year around early September. You can also visit the museum that day. It's worth a visit if Bovington is too far or if you're curious about post-war German tanks, because this museum basically gets all the prototypes and pre-series-tanks of the Bundeswehr. There's about half a dozen Leopard 1's there, all prototypes and pre-series-tanks, self-propelled guns, a Leopard 2 A4, various types of vehicles based on Leopard 1 & 2 -chassis (engineering tanks, recovery vehicles etc.). Of course you've also got machines from WW1 and WW2, but I guess Bovington has more of those. However, a bonus is that the museum also got lots of East German equipment, so it features a lot of T-54/55's, a T-62, a T-70 and many BMP's and other machines. This year, they drove out the Leo 1, Leo 2, engineering and recovery vehicles, an M48 Patton, a T-62, BMP's and infantry tanks AND the stars of the show, a Panzer IV, a Panzer I (!!) and a Panther. Jingles is right - you really need to be there to hear and experience it. It's worth it.
In the early 70's we would occasionally train in the same area as the Bundeswehr Tankers, they had the Leopard I which did sound like a Formula 1 car in comparison to the Venerable M-60-A1 we rode in. The only problem is that the German Tankers drove their Leopards as though they were F-1's and we frequently saw them scattered about off trail, having spun out while we trundled by clanking up a storm, going a very prudent for conditions, 10 mph. Tanks will slide, and spin, and do everything a car will do on icy roads, and trails.
But Jingles, the MG-34 did have a quick change barrel. Also the Germans did create a simplified version made largely out of stamped sheet metal, its called the MG-42. Funnily enough, the barrel change method on the MG-42 kept it from being adopted on German vehicles (the barrel change mechanism interfered with ball mounts).
an issue with Jingles rattling off the various models of German armor. in the case of the PZ IV, and PZ III mechanically the later models where almost identical to previous models with the main difference being firepower and add on armor packages. a Panzer IV D and a Panzer IV J had the same suspension, the same transmission, and the same engine.
i think you missed my point. Jingles made it sound like each mark of the Panzer III and Panzer IV where different vehicles (which they are, but only in a few respects). my comment was that the Panzer III and Panzer IV in their final variations are very similar to the original variants. the Panzer V and Panzer VI where logistical, mechanical nightmares
Well each of new version is an improvement over the previous version, that is simply how tank development goes and it's no different than from how it went with American, British or Russian tanks.
I have to agree with Jingles on the Leopards sound, I used to live about 2.5km from the local garrisons armored garages in Boden, Sweden, and it used to wake me up when they rolled out the Leopards in the morning. They do sound magnificent!
Yes MJ the Leo sounds wonderful, I recently attended a much smaller, but no less regal, event at the Cairns Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns (that's in Australia Jingles ;-) ) and they run joy rides for customers in their Leo AND their T72 (among many others) they are GLORIOUS tanks to ride in. You really feel like "master of your domain" sitting in the commanders hatch in either of those two.
A bunch of us went down to the museum about 5 weeks ago and they ran the Leopard 1 around the track a few times, wow that noise and when it passes you. awesome can relate + we got to sit in a Chieftain tanks turret for a bit. great day out.
I know there is a group restoring a King Tiger into working condition, my god would that be so cool to see it beside Tiger 131, and give a perspective on the size. Would truly be a Tiger day to remember!
I love the sound of a running tank, i remember the first time i got to see a challenger 2 even nearly 20 years later i still get quite gitty when i see one even though I've been around armoured vehicles most my adult life. During my 21 year career in the army I've ridden on several tanks and armour vehicles but the challenger 2 will forever hold a special spot in my heart.
A few weeks ago I was in Munster (biggest german tank museum for those who dont know), and my alarm clock there were a few Leopard2A6's on the nearby taining grounds. That engine sounds even better than the Leo 1's. (Plus you can still hear it over half a Kilometer away and it still sounds awesome)
Actually Jingels the comet has a 76.2 mm gun (17 pounder) And 1 thing about the bren and the mg 34 a mg 34 has a belt of 150 rounds the bren has a 30 round magazine if the theoretical rof is 120 rounds for a bren the prectical (with a mag loaded) is 90 tops as you need to load the bloody thing
Also, any machine gun (Bren or MG34) will sit around 99% (say) of its life span doing nothing. At those crucial few times when its really needed to perform the MG34 does perform. Its a design philosophy that is used in all modern weapons today, fighter aircraft especially. Not just German Weapons - ALL of them. Apparently the Germans knew something back then the Allies only applied after WW2.
The mg 34 design is still in use everywhere in the form of the mg3 almost identical to the original but even higher fire rate if i'm not completely mistaken
I had the pleasure to stand next to the track at Militracks in The Netherlands a couple of years ago and a Leopard passed me, that sound is indeed amazing and I could pretty much touch it, it was that close.
Fun fact: german field-Maintenance guide book for eastern front in 1942 contained over million (yes, over 1 000 000) different spare parts to be used in different vehicles.
That's not a Mk. X Valentine, Jingles, there is no MG. That's the gunners sight. Lol. The easiest give-away is the fact that there should be two extensions to the mantlet, one either side of the gun, the one on the (tanks) left is the gunners optics, the one on the (tanks) right is the MG mount.
I loved Tiger day, I took my 67yr old mum, and even she liked it. It was a great day. When the swiss tank came out I turned to a lad and asked if he played WoT but no his dad did, I said 'dad' wow, doesn't that swiss tank look just like the Mutz and he screwed his face as if I was mad and shook his head, so thankyou for the verification on that. I enjoyed the whole day, caught up with some old friends, Cromwell, Black Prince, Chaffee, Churchill. I cannot recommend Bovington tank museum enough. Its a great day out for most of the family. Lol.
Correction: it did NOT take a whole german infantry squad to service one MG-34. The infantry Squad (called Gruppe) was based AROUND the weapon. same goes for the Modern Day German Army. the german infantry company consists of 3 platoons (Zug) and each Zug had 3 Squads and each squad could be split in 2 Trupps if necessary Group Set-Up: Zugführer (Feldwebel or Hauptfeldwebel) 3 Gruppenführer (NCO´s like Unteroffiziere or Stabsunteroffizier 3-6 Truppführer (mostly from the lower ranks, Haupgefreite for example) for the Squad Gruppenführer MG-Schütze 1: brings the weapon into the combat area and fires ist MG-Schütze 2: takes care of Spare Barrels, Breaches, the Ammunition. Loads the Weapon and Changes Barrels. MG-Schütze 3 (not always necessary) transports further ammo and the Tri-pod, the so called "Lafette". Used for turining the MG into a heavy MG (emplaced) to provide sustained covering fire for advancing troops or to lay down fire in a set field of impact (beaten zone) tu supress enemy forces in emplacements/positions. 6-7 Riflemen. thats why an MG is surrounded by 10 Germans
As an audio engineer: It makes clearly sense to make the tank not more silence but more louder and deeper. Its like the subwoofer effect. You have only one subwoofer loudspeaker in your room but it makes you hear the deep sounds everywhere. So in this case you can say, yes, for an example, there are coming maybe 3 tanks from the south, they are 3 miles away, but you cannot say exactly from where! But that information would be very important!
The Mighty Jingles FYI, the designation of light machinegun doesn't refer to its actual weight, or even caliber, so much as its function/role. Both the MG-34 & 42 could and would, on occasion, be employed as heavy machine guns by simply mounting them on a tripod in a defensive position, this despite that the only difference being the addition of a tripod. Theoretically, a Bren could also be employed as a heavy machine gun with the addition of a tripod mount and using it in the defense of a position.
Everyone's commenting on "Never fails to disappoint" and I'm just here like, "Yeah, but he completely rehashed the British tank design philosophy!" Almost word for word, all of it twice.
And even better ... 8 as the 2 lanc's were together a few years ago... glorious day at Eastbourne ... followed by their sister the Vulcan bomber .. just blew me away .. Awesome ..
While Lincolnshire has it's ups and downs, hearing half a dozen Merlins fly over your house while you play warthunder is definitely an up. As for the Vulcan, that is just ridiculously loud. The one plane you could always Identify long before you could see it.
Went to the Swiss Tank Museum and took a lot of pictures of the Panzer58, its successors and other swiss tanks during WW2 :) Nice to see one if them in action! Thanks Jingles!
In 1974, I stood 20m away from a Leopard 1 whose driver pressed the pedal to the metal and accelerated that machine at max, pretty fast, I remember, not much less than my old VW-beetle. Till today I remember well that feelings in my groins and loins from the pervasive deep vibrations of the MTU-engine ...
Hey Jingles, if you ever got the time and money, you should visit the Panzer Museum in Munster. They have an A7V, Sturmtiger and Goliath for example, really nice collection overall (including uniforms and infantry weapons). They also have an annually event called "Stahl auf der Heide" (Steel on Heath) where they show live vehicles similiar to the Tiger Day.
I don't understand why or how someone comes onto videos like this and just dislikes it. This is history of our world, remnants of the past, and whoever disliked this is an actual muppet.
During my military service there was a pioneer unit. With Leo 1 Tanks. Once one drove only two meters past me and it was frightening. Also when we had some lessons outside and they drove the tanks out of the hall, we took a break every time. :D You couldn`t understand a single word. :D
i was a tank mechanic in the bundeswehr 20 years ago, when we still had the gepard aa tank based on the leopard 1 and i can confirm jingles feelings about the engine sound. there is nothing like it. the leopard 2 engine is just no match to it. (the sound i mean)
Best thing I ever heard was the Avro Vulcan at Leuchars.OMG the noise/vibration from the Olympus engines is something i'll never forget.My trouser legs where flapping it was that powerful.We just don't make them like that anymore.
Hey Jingles, I can 100% agree with you in terms f the Leopard C1 MBT, having worked with and along side them for almost a year now I can confirm its exhilarating each time their engines start up (if a little annoyingafter a few months). I enjoy every video you've been posting these past 3 years that I've been subscribed, can't wait for whats next. A good fan from New Brunswick, Canada Pte Robinson, Kent VIII Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's) Royal Canadian Armored Core
Pah, Spitfires. I always preferred the Merlin on the P-51 :P My favorite aviation engine would have to be the Allison engines on the P-38 Lightning, though. Seriously, if you ever get the chance to see one of those in the air, *absolutely* take it. They're downright unsettling in how quiet they are. Planes of Fame down in Chino, CA has one that usually makes the rounds in the region every summer.
Jingles; I have the lucky opportunity of living in Hamilton, Ontario; home to the Lancaster that was sent over to help you guys get yours airworthy! Almost every day our house shakes with the noise of that beast flying over lol, it's amazing. Might be the loudest thing you'll hear in the air above you short of jets on afterburner.
Well outstanding in that most MGs didn't have quick change barrels. The MG34 barrel change system is weird though (flipping open 180 degrees either the back of the gun, or the front), and there is a reason you pretty much don't see it used on any other gun (including its replacement, the MG42). The barrel swap on the Bren in undoubtedly better, hence why all modern GPMs use a similar setup.
The difference between the MG34 and, as an example, the Bren is something you cannot discuss without taking into account the difference in DOCTRINE. The German squads were, in large parts, centered around the MG, rather than having it be supporting the squad. The 6 barrels and 1800 rounds of ammo for the gun was spread out over the squad, not carried by the gunner or even gunner and assistant.
Whats better than a leopard tank driving by, well, three of them. Seen them (heard too) along with a slew of other beauties at Aquino in Ontario Canada was extremely impressed with such a low profiled show. With a Tank arena and reenactments galore it was an awesome place / show. Got to say the 50 cal mg firing is also an impressive but different sound. Highly recommend that, hope its as good next year. WOT was there even, but you should come anyway. :)
Jingles you mention 7 different Tiger variants and while that is somewhat true (there where probably a bit more than 7 variants due the various modifications made during its production run) however this is not per se a supply issue as the major components like the engine, transmission, final drives etc... on every tiger 'variant' are more or less the same these 'variants' differed mostly in small things (feifels yes or no, cupola, s-mine launchers, nahverteidungswaffe, etc...) and while the first 250 tigers were produced with a different engine (HL210) Tiger 131 here demonstrates quite handily that those tigers run fine on a HL230(also the difference between a HL210 and an HL230 is not that large). Also while there where a lot of modifications made during the production of the tiger (and other german tanks) they pale in comparison to the humongous mess of various modifications made to the T-34 during its production run which also depends on which factory produced said T-34 these differences could range from the way the hull plates were assembled (StZ factory T-34s from 1942 had interlocking hull plates like on the panther) to the layout of the turret roof and the shape of the turret to the actual tracks used on the tanks.
One of my "I'm about to die aren't I?" moments was being on the outside corner of a dirt road supposedly controlling traffic, when a leopard armoured recovery vehicle towing a leopard 1A3 went screaming into that corner at full speed. But all 80+ tonnes took that corner like a roller coaster on rails. (If my heart was working I probably would have been quite impressed by it.)
jingles if you like the leo1 driving by you should try to find a way to see a leo2 some years ago the Truppenübungsplatz Altmark had an open house event and they were showing of some leo 2A5 at first they showed the tanks, which was already nice to see and feel, but then went one and showed a training battle when you see a 2A5 flying by just a few meters in front of you with over 40km/h offroad is just wow and with flying by i mean driving and jumping :D a god way for you to see a leo2 would probably be the Stahl auf der Heide event from the german tank museum Munster
Mmmm, Merlin Spitfire sounds nice, but the high pitched wailing of the .50 cal gunports combined with the Packard Merlin and the slight whisper of the radiator and oil cooler cowl on the P-51 beat it in my humble opinion.
So the Dark gods are good for weather, Jingles is a lodestone for the Easy 8 and Roz will inevitably walk into your framing... all in the fine print of your Tiger Day disclaimer. Got it. :) Wish I could have been there and thank you for covering it.
I know what about u'r talking good Sir about feeling engine and all that part. When I was in army, I have to oportunity to spend all day with my palls who were crew 2S1 "Gvozdika" (from Russian to English is "Gillyflower" - from the flower). Full power, full speed. And shooting with 2S1 is pure poetry. With a little imagination. Imagine a 15 tons mobile howitzer with weight almost 16 tons doing 60 km/h on road. Something interesting about shooting from this: 2S1 one shell contained a maximum of 5 bags of powder. During shooting I was witnessed, 2 bags were used for practice. In spite of this, standing a few meters away from this mobile howitzer, the earth is shaking from the shockwave. Something unforgetable :) Imagine one shot with 5 bags :D BTW I was sighting officer rocket launcher BM-21 and RM-71 (son and grandson of Katyusha) FYI :)
Hey Jingles, I get where you are coming from regarding the Leopard, Many many moons ago when i was a young infantryman/sig and we were doing Operation Droughtmaster in the Australian outback, our troop of M113's (we had the pleasure of being mounted infantry for the exercise) had a troop of Leopards attached to us, We would play the game very cagey and and as soon as some of our forward elements even heard the enemy (mostly in Scorpions (M113's with a Scorpion turret )) we would sic the Leopards onto them then proceed through the "carnage" they created for us and on to the next objective. It was glorious every morning hearing them start up. and at the end of the exercise they self transported to staging before they were loaded up on trucks and taken home. Look up Yumping Leopard II on google images :-) because thats how most of their trip on the bumpy desert roads of outback Australia was like
You should hear the sound of a Leopard 2 closely followed by a CV90 blasting past at full throttle just feet away from you. That's a glorious experience to say the least
Jingles, there is an even better example of over engineering in German tanks: the tachometer. A complex piece of machinery requiring something like 50 man hours to build that most countries just did without. It's also worth noting about your points about logistics that all of the decisions go back to the lessons learned from WW1. Germany had very limited production abilities due to a lot of reasons and they were left with the choice of focusing on slug throwers or support systems. Being the trailblazers in the field and having learned lessons from the trenches about what is necessary for maintenance and resupply they never could adapt to the new reality after the fighting started. If you think about the panzers operational range and the MG34 requirements in terms of WW1 trench breaking then their abilities make more sense.
(Wall of text) On the whole MG34 thing. Yes, it was expensive, yes it needed barrel changes. But you are forgetting a few KEY elements of its design. Fire reliability, and VOLUME of fire. The MG34, and later the simplified MG42 had the ability to quickly get a large number of rounds downrange. This does exponentially increases the hit probability on a moving target, that really don’t want to get hit. (The MG42’s build inn “circle” spread also helps with this) So, the point is this: If you spot a squad of soldiers at say 400 meters, you want to put as much fire downrange as fast as possible, in the hopes of hitting one of them before they all hit the dirt and take cover. (That’s only going to take a second or two) So, the chances per salvo of actually getting a kill, is greatly increased with weapons of this fire rate. (Especially in aerial combat) This is why the MG34’s/42’s and 3’s are general purpose machine guns, and guns like the Bren and BAR are more in the role of Squad Automatic Rifles. (They have their purpose) Any squad leader worth his salt would take one MG42 into battle vs 2-3 Brens. If he had the choice.
Que the "Actually, Jingles...." A waste of resources, yes. Yet the manner in which the machine guns like the MG34, the first 'General Purpose Machine Gun', was employed were different than that employed by the British and American armies. In the German Army, the gruppe or squad, was built to support the MG because it was deemed as the most effective and lethal weapon. The tactic was to get the gun into a good position and the rest of the squad would support the MG team. Each soldier in the squad could expect to carry a can of ammunition or a spare barrel for it. And the way it was supposed to be fired was in short bursts at moving targets, not long bursts of suppressive fire. While the MG34 was over-engineered, it was still a big step-forward in small-arms development.
Jingles, if you really want to talk about reliability then please don't go with the nonsense that the T-34 was so realiable because it simply wasn't, they were breaking down at an alarming rate. Russian commanders themselves commented in '42 and '43 how they envied the German tanks because they could do roadmarches without breaking down. British tank also suffered from a lot of reliability issues, especilly up till the middle of the war, and even the much vaunted M4 had a risk to break down after a short roadmarch. 3AD records from '44 and '45 even show a loss of 40% of their tanks for doing a less than 100km roadmarch. 'A task force of 50 tanks moving thirty to forty miles (50-60km) a day will have between 15 and 20 tanks drop out during the day just for maintenance and repair. These repairs could include everything from the minor changing of spark plugs and V belts to the actual replacements of transmission and track suspension elements." Also, the T-34 does not do 400km on single tank, might want to add that this is with the external fueltanks added, and while the T-34 can do this in theory the reality was that the tank's automotive components couldn't handle this, the oil filters on the tank were terrible to the point that the engine needed to be suppleid with extra oil to prevent it from destroying itself, often meaning that a T-34 would be lucky to do 200km. The tracks themselves were fragile and would snap during roadmarches. And I'm not even going to start on the issue that in '41 for instance T-34's had an extra transmission strapped to the engine deck. Another issue, which seems to be ignored everytime people start comparing reliability between german and allied tanks, is that the allied tank units had the advantage that their armored units could rest and give periodic maintenance to their tanks, something that is vital and needed for every tank regardless of its design. Every tank, even the M4 needs periodic maintenance in order to keep rolling, if its not given this the tank will breakdown in short notice. This is the problem that many german tank units faced, they could not provide their tanks with the periodic maintenance that these vehicles needed but this is not the fault of reliability in german tanks design but a consequence of strategic circumstances. Tiger I was almost as reliable as PzKpfw IV, provided it received the needed logistic support and was correctly maintained by its crews. The logistic support required for Tigers and Panthers was generally greater than that required for PzKpfw IV. Disruption to that support therefore tended to adversely impact serviceability rates for Tigers and Panthers, more than the Panzer III or IV. In other words, under relatively favourable conditions the Tiger was not significantly less reliable but under unfavourable conditions this changed. In particular, regarding Tiger I, in its first several months of service it certainly had some 'teething problems'; to be expected with any new model and especially one as sophisticated as this. However, once these were resolved the Tiger I became fairly reliable under suitable conditions and I recall seeing serviceability rates nearly as good as those for PzKpfw IV. Tiger II does not seem to have done as well, but it still was not as bad as many would have us believe. Its service came later in the war, when things were much more desperate and many of the problems the tank already had were considerably aggravated, and added to, by conditions that had little to do with the tank itself. Panther also did not generally perform as reliably as Tiger and one issue in particular, regarding its final drives, was never properly resolved. Nevertheless, prodigious efforts still at times allowed it to run serviceability rates of around 70 percent or slightly better. This may not seem spectacular and it isn't, but nevertheless it was a huge improvment on the dismal reliability of Panther in the first months of its service. Finally, because of the different reporting system, the technical reliability of german tanks can't be directly compared to that of amercian or british tanks, yet people constantly do. A damaged or broken down tank in a amercian or british unit that could not be repaired in under 24 hours was simple written-off from the inventory and sent off to the rear. This keeps the records clean but it paints the false picture that allied tanks did not have to undergo long term repairs. While the allied commander had in effect lost a tank it did not show up as such in the records, in contrast a german commander could show up at teh workshop every evening and 'beg for' or 'demand' the workshop's personnel's best efforts to keep the tank there and not have it sent off to the rear because at that point they would lose it. This broken down tank stays on the workshop's roster for days or even weeks for a moment that it can be repaired, giving the false impression that the repairs last that long despite that these might not take more than a couple of hours or maybe half a day There are several good books written on German tank maintenance with information from historians such as Jentz or Friedli, I can ighly recommend them.
The Mighty Jingles has got a point I mean replacing a transmission on the Sherman took 2 hours and replacing a transmission on a panther took 6 hours. No matter how you want to look at it overall German tanks broke down more and had longer and more complicated repairs.
How quickly you could replace a transmission on a tank has little to do with 'reliability', that is 'ease of servicibility' which is a different thing. German tanks did not break down all that more than their allied or russian counter parts and this is supported by works from historians such as Jentz, Doyle, and Friedli, who are some of the best historians when it comes to German WWII armor.
When I was a kid at CFB Borden, us kids MUCH preferred the leopards over the old Centurions.. cos the Centurions were all bass... and bass is unidirectional.. when we were out on the tank trails we couldn't tell which way one was coming to run out of the way. The Leopards have that higher pitched burble and we could always tell which way it was coming from. Easier to avoid.
just got a mastery in my Tiger 131 in "WOT" but on the NA server, but king off the battel was the artys that fought to the bitter end, thank you TJN32TA and krriz for a super interesting game.
Jingles, right when you were saying 'the only thing I've heard that's more impressive than the Leopard is...' I immediately thought P-51D..... but then, that's still a Rolls Royce Merlin...... Also, you should come to the EAA Airventure fly-in some year..... largest airshow in North America, loads of warbirds. This year the only 2 airworthy B-29's were there.....
As I was watching this video,I heard a warbird and looked outside as a P-47 Thunderbolt flew over. It's not a spitfire but it still sounds pretty great! (I live 10 minutes away from Duxford)
I would love to get your reaction being on board an American flight deck between catapults 1 and 2 when they start shooting off. There probably would not be anymore Prowlers, they rattle your entire body and a person could lose a filling if they were not careful, but It is still pretty impressive. Final Checking was probably the best job I ever had. /end Wardaddy voice
The Leopard 1 tank sounds like you could hear it coming from 25 miles away! How about the high pitched whine of an M1A2 Abrams... Couldn't be more different...
That Leopard has a distinct Jag V12 sound, albeit much louder, ya the hair on my neck stood up too! Love it. I better see that that Spitfire video posted. :D
/ActuallyJinglesVoice Actually Jingles, the T-34/76 only had to close to 1600 yards to put a round through the front of a Tiger I. Source, Tanks! on Discovery History (might be Battlefields, I've seen them all like 5 times because theres bugger all else on during the day)
I heard the S tank up close. It was pretty impressive, with its twin engine power. Gas turbine and a conventional. I suspect that the leopard 1 got the S tank in the sound department.
If you get a hankering for a visit to the colonies, I can take you to military day at the NAS Oceana airshow, the USS Wisconsin, and Norfolk Naval Station for a haze grey overload all in one weekend!
Jingles, when I was a young tanker back in the late 70s I had the opportunity to be part of an exchange crew that lived and worked with the 10th Panzer Division (Bundeswehr). For 90 days I got to live and work as a Bundeswehr armor crewman and learned how to drive, gun, and load the (then new) Leopards. I even got to drive the tank underwater, a very surreal experience watching water leak up through the escape hatch seals. We even had to learn how to use emergency escape scuba equipment. How many tanks do you know of that come equipped with their own scuba equipment?
But I have to agree, there is no sound like the sound of a Leopard on full throttle. What surprised me was how responsive and freaking fast that tank was. Although the electronic semi-manual transmission took a little getting used to. Still an absolutely GLORIOUS tank to have the opportunity to operate!!
The sound of a Leopard is really something that goes thru your body...Always impressive, that's for sure. Greetings from an ex-tanker...
redknight1322, I was in 3rd Armored Division, June 1975-August 1977. I got to see plenty of Leopard 1s; however, it was always at some kind of ceremony, as I was in the Division Band. I envy you! By the time I was commissioned in the Army National Guard in 1985, Armor was not a viable career branch where I was, so I ended up as a Field Artillery officer (which I do not regret). Still, I have always been fascinated by tanks!
Your right about how responsive it is, better than a Leopard 2. It's up at full speed in no time and it doesn't lose much speed when turning. All of my tanks Leopard 1 A3 and A5 DK did over 50 km/h in soft sand or dirt and around 70 km/h on hard ground or road. The leaking under water is a matter of preparation and maintenance.
I remember a few years back, I saw the Dutch army during a small beach landing exercise. They brought a Leopard 1 Driver Training Tank in a landing craft along in case any of the boats got stranded on the sand.
Long story short, the large landing craft came back in to pick up the beach crew and the tank and THAT got stuck on a sandbank on its way out (they must have missed the sandbank on the way in). For a couple of minutes, we wondered how they were going to get free when the tank engine started up again (glorious sound) and you could just see the raised cab going backwards and forwards in the craft, rocking the boat. That shifted it :)
Was the driver on a Leopard 1 ARV a few years ago in the Norwegian army. The sound is truly like anything else, the very air in your lungs vibrate when that V10 hits 2200 RPM under load. Will also agree on how responsive they are to driver input. We did not have the same power/weight ratio as the Leo 2's and CV90's we were supporting, but it just bucked and roared off the line while they were still dragging their feet and spooling up their turbos. Off-road I reckon the only armored vehicles that could hang with us would be the upgraded M113's some units had, which had 330 angry ponies pulling 13-14 tonnes around. The Leo 1 is the muscle-car of the tank world.
Bit of trivia for you Jingles. Originally, the Germans wanted to make the Leopard 1 quiet, but couldn't manage it with that mega power pack, so they went the other way. The exhaust is designed to throw the engine noise out, in a barrelling manner (hard to explain). By doing this, as you well know, they sound awesome, but also in the field you can't pin point their direction. All you know is, is that there is a panzer on the battlefield, and you best be proper scared. Had the pleasure of being a driver and loader/operator for a time.
Was going to comment the same thing, drove one in my national service days in the Norwegian army. Instead of making it as quiet as possible the germans decided to use the sound as extra psychological warfare.The exhaust were "thrown out" to the sides as wide as possible both to make it hard to pinpoint the location and also to diffuse the heat signature. From memory it has a 830hp engine which I believe they said originally was designed for use in some boat. Some great engineering, the whole engine could be taken out and replaced in less than 30 minutes by a trained crew.
so they used a failed feature into a usable one. noicely done germans!
"make opportunities from your weaknesses", good job!
Correct! MTU MB 838 CaM 500, 10-cylinder, 37.4 litres, multi-fuel engine
830 PS (819 hp, 610 kW) at 2,200 RPM. More sound - ua-cam.com/video/VVFVlSXaTSo/v-deo.html
Rafael Andrade not full speed but full throttle maybe? You do know that speed doesn't make an engine louder?
I was at a Bundeswehr-event last year in Munster, Germany (there is also the german tank museum) where pretty much all euqipment was on display. You could enter all the tanks, including both older and top of the line models, as well as handle multiple small arms. MG3 (modern day MG34), AK, UZI included. One could also roam around some barracks and maintenance hangars. We got to talk (im german) with actual mechanics and a tank officer who where maintaining leopard 2s. The whole engine block was there on the test outdide of the tank and running, so we got first hand lung-flapping expericence, that was the best part of the day! The mechanic was putting it through its paces (we were handed earplugs), and afterwards he and the officer chatted with us. I can only recommend going there, visting the museum was also very nice!
I was recently visiting the Panzermuseum Munster (Germany) which had a similar event, although smaller in scale and with a smaller arena. It's called "Stahl auf der Heide" and it's once a year around early September. You can also visit the museum that day. It's worth a visit if Bovington is too far or if you're curious about post-war German tanks, because this museum basically gets all the prototypes and pre-series-tanks of the Bundeswehr. There's about half a dozen Leopard 1's there, all prototypes and pre-series-tanks, self-propelled guns, a Leopard 2 A4, various types of vehicles based on Leopard 1 & 2 -chassis (engineering tanks, recovery vehicles etc.). Of course you've also got machines from WW1 and WW2, but I guess Bovington has more of those. However, a bonus is that the museum also got lots of East German equipment, so it features a lot of T-54/55's, a T-62, a T-70 and many BMP's and other machines. This year, they drove out the Leo 1, Leo 2, engineering and recovery vehicles, an M48 Patton, a T-62, BMP's and infantry tanks AND the stars of the show, a Panzer IV, a Panzer I (!!) and a Panther. Jingles is right - you really need to be there to hear and experience it. It's worth it.
In the early 70's we would occasionally train in the same area as the Bundeswehr Tankers, they had the Leopard I which did sound like a Formula 1 car in comparison to the Venerable M-60-A1 we rode in. The only problem is that the German Tankers drove their Leopards as though they were F-1's and we frequently saw them scattered about off trail, having spun out while we trundled by clanking up a storm, going a very prudent for conditions, 10 mph. Tanks will slide, and spin, and do everything a car will do on icy roads, and trails.
But Jingles, the MG-34 did have a quick change barrel. Also the Germans did create a simplified version made largely out of stamped sheet metal, its called the MG-42.
Funnily enough, the barrel change method on the MG-42 kept it from being adopted on German vehicles (the barrel change mechanism interfered with ball mounts).
That Leopard seems to be powered by high intensity wubs.
I like to think they are cybertreffen inside
25:26 "and the Leopard never fails to disappoint..."" Its not a Jingles video without a Jinglism
Went to the tank museum around a month ago and loved it, got to see the tiger collection and loved it, thanks Jingles for making me aware of it!
jacob huffer same
Thank you so much for bringing these tanks to us. Many of your viewers living here in NA have no opportunity to see these beautiful tanks in action.
Photobombing like a boss, Roz!
It good to see the ladies came out for a walk for a day again
Leo 1 sound, AMAZING, heard it live at tankfest this year before shaking your hand. Might I say it was a Perfect day :D
an issue with Jingles rattling off the various models of German armor.
in the case of the PZ IV, and PZ III mechanically the later models where almost identical to previous models with the main difference being firepower and add on armor packages.
a Panzer IV D and a Panzer IV J had the same suspension, the same transmission, and the same engine.
i think you missed my point.
Jingles made it sound like each mark of the Panzer III and Panzer IV where different vehicles (which they are, but only in a few respects).
my comment was that the Panzer III and Panzer IV in their final variations are very similar to the original variants.
the Panzer V and Panzer VI where logistical, mechanical nightmares
Well each of new version is an improvement over the previous version, that is simply how tank development goes and it's no different than from how it went with American, British or Russian tanks.
I have to agree with Jingles on the Leopards sound, I used to live about 2.5km from the local garrisons armored garages in Boden, Sweden, and it used to wake me up when they rolled out the Leopards in the morning. They do sound magnificent!
My first reaction to the title was Jingles, the tiger is a tier VII tank.
Alias No.1425 LOL XD
King Tiger
Well, this is more like Tiger II Day, so that could work.
The Tiger 131 is tier VI
My thought was, If only they had a running Panzer VII for Tiger Day VII
"The leopard never fails to disappoint." Sounds like it needs some buffs then.
Was about to ay the same thing
Yes MJ the Leo sounds wonderful, I recently attended a much smaller, but no less regal, event at the Cairns Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns (that's in Australia Jingles ;-) ) and they run joy rides for customers in their Leo AND their T72 (among many others) they are GLORIOUS tanks to ride in. You really feel like "master of your domain" sitting in the commanders hatch in either of those two.
A bunch of us went down to the museum about 5 weeks ago and they ran the Leopard 1 around the track a few times, wow that noise and when it passes you. awesome can relate + we got to sit in a Chieftain tanks turret for a bit. great day out.
I know there is a group restoring a King Tiger into working condition, my god would that be so cool to see it beside Tiger 131, and give a perspective on the size. Would truly be a Tiger day to remember!
Setch Dreskar that'd be glorious
A tank museum in France has an operational King Tiger.
There is already a running Tiger II in Saumur in France.
*Leopard C1 passes by*
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Modified to run on Maple Syrup
Your welcome
Kaito The Kanadian Maple syrup and timbits to be precise :)
Wrong
The Timbits are found as the replacement for the explosive filler in the shells
NWTactical shhhhh
I love the sound of a running tank, i remember the first time i got to see a challenger 2 even nearly 20 years later i still get quite gitty when i see one even though I've been around armoured vehicles most my adult life. During my 21 year career in the army I've ridden on several tanks and armour vehicles but the challenger 2 will forever hold a special spot in my heart.
A few weeks ago I was in Munster (biggest german tank museum for those who dont know), and my alarm clock there were a few Leopard2A6's on the nearby taining grounds. That engine sounds even better than the Leo 1's. (Plus you can still hear it over half a Kilometer away and it still sounds awesome)
Actually Jingels the comet has a 76.2 mm gun (17 pounder) And 1 thing about the bren and the mg 34 a mg 34 has a belt of 150 rounds the bren has a 30 round magazine if the theoretical rof is 120 rounds for a bren the prectical (with a mag loaded) is 90 tops as you need to load the bloody thing
Also, any machine gun (Bren or MG34) will sit around 99% (say) of its life span doing nothing. At those crucial few times when its really needed to perform the MG34 does perform. Its a design philosophy that is used in all modern weapons today, fighter aircraft especially. Not just German Weapons - ALL of them. Apparently the Germans knew something back then the Allies only applied after WW2.
the bren is so far ahead in design its the only (good ?) firearm with the magazine in the top ?
Also where did the shotgun noise go ?
bastex the comet had a 77mm gun not a 17 pounder. It has an identical barrel I think, but definitely a 77mm.
niall coffey HV 77 mm on Comet was a development of the HV 75 mm intended for Cromwell. Comet was designed as it didn't fit on Cromwell.
The mg 34 design is still in use everywhere in the form of the mg3 almost identical to the original but even higher fire rate if i'm not completely mistaken
Actually Jingles,
-MG34 had quickchange barrel
-the Comet has a 76mm gun, not a 75
-T-34s had a tendency to break down like nothing else
I had the pleasure to stand next to the track at Militracks in The Netherlands a couple of years ago and a Leopard passed me, that sound is indeed amazing and I could pretty much touch it, it was that close.
Fun fact: german field-Maintenance guide book for eastern front in 1942 contained over million (yes, over 1 000 000) different spare parts to be used in different vehicles.
@The Mighty Jingles 3:30 That Centurion is a Mark 3, recognizable by the, among other things, 20 pounder gun.
So glad I was here to witness all these awesome machines in action. A really great day out...
That's not a Mk. X Valentine, Jingles, there is no MG. That's the gunners sight. Lol.
The easiest give-away is the fact that there should be two extensions to the mantlet, one either side of the gun, the one on the (tanks) left is the gunners optics, the one on the (tanks) right is the MG mount.
Well that explains it, thank you.
No problem, Jiggles. Love your videos!
I loved Tiger day, I took my 67yr old mum, and even she liked it. It was a great day. When the swiss tank came out I turned to a lad and asked if he played WoT but no his dad did, I said 'dad' wow, doesn't that swiss tank look just like the Mutz and he screwed his face as if I was mad and shook his head, so thankyou for the verification on that. I enjoyed the whole day, caught up with some old friends, Cromwell, Black Prince, Chaffee, Churchill. I cannot recommend Bovington tank museum enough. Its a great day out for most of the family. Lol.
Correction: it did NOT take a whole german infantry squad to service one MG-34. The infantry Squad (called Gruppe) was based AROUND the weapon. same goes for the Modern Day German Army.
the german infantry company consists of 3 platoons (Zug) and each Zug had 3 Squads and each squad could be split in 2 Trupps if necessary
Group Set-Up:
Zugführer (Feldwebel or Hauptfeldwebel)
3 Gruppenführer (NCO´s like Unteroffiziere or Stabsunteroffizier
3-6 Truppführer (mostly from the lower ranks, Haupgefreite for example)
for the Squad
Gruppenführer
MG-Schütze 1: brings the weapon into the combat area and fires ist
MG-Schütze 2: takes care of Spare Barrels, Breaches, the Ammunition. Loads the Weapon and Changes Barrels.
MG-Schütze 3 (not always necessary) transports further ammo and the Tri-pod, the so called "Lafette". Used for turining the MG into a heavy MG (emplaced) to provide sustained covering fire for advancing troops or to lay down fire in a set field of impact (beaten zone) tu supress enemy forces in emplacements/positions.
6-7 Riflemen.
thats why an MG is surrounded by 10 Germans
As an audio engineer: It makes clearly sense to make the tank not more silence but more louder and deeper. Its like the subwoofer effect. You have only one subwoofer loudspeaker in your room but it makes you hear the deep sounds everywhere. So in this case you can say, yes, for an example, there are coming maybe 3 tanks from the south, they are 3 miles away, but you cannot say exactly from where! But that information would be very important!
The Mighty Jingles FYI, the designation of light machinegun doesn't refer to its actual weight, or even caliber, so much as its function/role. Both the MG-34 & 42 could and would, on occasion, be employed as heavy machine guns by simply mounting them on a tripod in a defensive position, this despite that the only difference being the addition of a tripod. Theoretically, a Bren could also be employed as a heavy machine gun with the addition of a tripod mount and using it in the defense of a position.
Everyone's commenting on "Never fails to disappoint" and I'm just here like, "Yeah, but he completely rehashed the British tank design philosophy!"
Almost word for word, all of it twice.
There's one thing better than hearing a single Merlin on a Spitfire...
Four Merlins on a Lancaster. ;)
And even better ... 8 as the 2 lanc's were together a few years ago... glorious day at Eastbourne ... followed by their sister the Vulcan bomber .. just blew me away .. Awesome ..
Also the two Merlins on a Mosquito ;)
All the spitfires a few years ago
While Lincolnshire has it's ups and downs, hearing half a dozen Merlins fly over your house while you play warthunder is definitely an up. As for the Vulcan, that is just ridiculously loud. The one plane you could always Identify long before you could see it.
I call and raise you one Boeing B-29 named Fifi.
Went to the Swiss Tank Museum and took a lot of pictures of the Panzer58, its successors and other swiss tanks during WW2 :) Nice to see one if them in action! Thanks Jingles!
Loved it....thanks for all the stats and for sharing
In 1974, I stood 20m away from a Leopard 1 whose driver pressed the pedal to the metal and accelerated that machine at max, pretty fast, I remember, not much less than my old VW-beetle. Till today I remember well that feelings in my groins and loins from the pervasive deep vibrations of the MTU-engine ...
Hey Jingles, if you ever got the time and money, you should visit the Panzer Museum in Munster. They have an A7V, Sturmtiger and Goliath for example, really nice collection overall (including uniforms and infantry weapons).
They also have an annually event called "Stahl auf der Heide" (Steel on Heath) where they show live vehicles similiar to the Tiger Day.
LOOK AT ALL THESE BIG ANGRY HOUSES WITH EVEN BIGGER AND ANGRIER GUNS!!!! AND YOU WONDER WHY THEY WERE MADE
As a Retired Canadian Infantry Soldier, I would agree with you, no question that the Leopard C1 is the nicest sounding Tank!!! Cheers,
The Valentine is a Mark III model IX. Checked my pictures from Bovington Tankfest back in 2012
I don't understand why or how someone comes onto videos like this and just dislikes it. This is history of our world, remnants of the past, and whoever disliked this is an actual muppet.
I can't thank you enough for sharing this with us. I don't know when I'll be able to make it to Bovington any time soon from the U.S. Cheers.
Ahhhh..... The sound of the Leopard 1.... I'm so gonna touch myself tonight....
During my military service there was a pioneer unit. With Leo 1 Tanks. Once one drove only two meters past me and it was frightening. Also when we had some lessons outside and they drove the tanks out of the hall, we took a break every time. :D You couldn`t understand a single word. :D
i was a tank mechanic in the bundeswehr 20 years ago, when we still had the gepard aa tank based on the leopard 1 and i can confirm jingles feelings about the engine sound. there is nothing like it. the leopard 2 engine is just no match to it. (the sound i mean)
Beautiful engine sounds: RR Merlin, RR Griffon, the Olympus "howl" of a Avro Vulcan and the roar from a Leopard C1.
I come to watch the tanks and stay to hear Mr Jingles giving me history lessons and great information, thank you sir :)
I love how UA-cams subtitles wrights Music when the tanks drive by
Best thing I ever heard was the Avro Vulcan at Leuchars.OMG the noise/vibration from the Olympus engines is something i'll never forget.My trouser legs where flapping it was that powerful.We just don't make them like that anymore.
That's a Canadian Leopard C2, Jingles. The C1 was essentially the Leopard 1A4. The C2s were made by combining C1 hulls with new Leopard 1A5 turrets.
Hey Jingles,
I can 100% agree with you in terms f the Leopard C1 MBT, having worked with and along side them for almost a year now I can confirm its exhilarating each time their engines start up (if a little annoyingafter a few months). I enjoy every video you've been posting these past 3 years that I've been subscribed, can't wait for whats next.
A good fan from New Brunswick, Canada
Pte Robinson, Kent
VIII Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's)
Royal Canadian Armored Core
The Leopart never fails to disappoint...? I might misunderstand the english language, but what...?
you heard right^^
Jingles please never change^^
I could see never ceases to amaze
Mixture between "Never fails to amaze me" and "never disappoints me"
its the jingles effect it happens
Classic Jingles moment... :)
I was at the first Tiger day of the year, and I nearly came in my pants when the Leopard 1 came roaring by the barrier.
Pah, Spitfires. I always preferred the Merlin on the P-51 :P My favorite aviation engine would have to be the Allison engines on the P-38 Lightning, though. Seriously, if you ever get the chance to see one of those in the air, *absolutely* take it. They're downright unsettling in how quiet they are. Planes of Fame down in Chino, CA has one that usually makes the rounds in the region every summer.
Jingles; I have the lucky opportunity of living in Hamilton, Ontario; home to the Lancaster that was sent over to help you guys get yours airworthy! Almost every day our house shakes with the noise of that beast flying over lol, it's amazing. Might be the loudest thing you'll hear in the air above you short of jets on afterburner.
MG34 did have a quick change barrel...
That doesn't change the overheating of the gun...
I didn't say that it did?
not the first model, the one with the quick change barrel was the follow-up model MG42
grossesTennis mg34s still have it. They are different then the mg42 but it still had one
Well outstanding in that most MGs didn't have quick change barrels. The MG34 barrel change system is weird though (flipping open 180 degrees either the back of the gun, or the front), and there is a reason you pretty much don't see it used on any other gun (including its replacement, the MG42). The barrel swap on the Bren in undoubtedly better, hence why all modern GPMs use a similar setup.
The difference between the MG34 and, as an example, the Bren is something you cannot discuss without taking into account the difference in DOCTRINE. The German squads were, in large parts, centered around the MG, rather than having it be supporting the squad. The 6 barrels and 1800 rounds of ammo for the gun was spread out over the squad, not carried by the gunner or even gunner and assistant.
Poor Roz having to put up with Jingles must drive her mad lol
The PZ61 was at the tank festival in the netherlands last year as well
Whats better than a leopard tank driving by, well, three of them. Seen them (heard too) along with a slew of other beauties at Aquino in Ontario Canada was extremely impressed with such a low profiled show. With a Tank arena and reenactments galore it was an awesome place / show. Got to say the 50 cal mg firing is also an impressive but different sound. Highly recommend that, hope its as good next year. WOT was there even, but you should come anyway. :)
This is just absolutely awesome. I would have loved to have been there.
Jingles you mention 7 different Tiger variants and while that is somewhat true (there where probably a bit more than 7 variants due the various modifications made during its production run) however this is not per se a supply issue as the major components like the engine, transmission, final drives etc... on every tiger 'variant' are more or less the same these 'variants' differed mostly in small things (feifels yes or no, cupola, s-mine launchers, nahverteidungswaffe, etc...) and while the first 250 tigers were produced with a different engine (HL210) Tiger 131 here demonstrates quite handily that those tigers run fine on a HL230(also the difference between a HL210 and an HL230 is not that large). Also while there where a lot of modifications made during the production of the tiger (and other german tanks) they pale in comparison to the humongous mess of various modifications made to the T-34 during its production run which also depends on which factory produced said T-34 these differences could range from the way the hull plates were assembled (StZ factory T-34s from 1942 had interlocking hull plates like on the panther) to the layout of the turret roof and the shape of the turret to the actual tracks used on the tanks.
One of my "I'm about to die aren't I?" moments was being on the outside corner of a dirt road supposedly controlling traffic, when a leopard armoured recovery vehicle towing a leopard 1A3 went screaming into that corner at full speed.
But all 80+ tonnes took that corner like a roller coaster on rails. (If my heart was working I probably would have been quite impressed by it.)
jingles if you like the leo1 driving by you should try to find a way to see a leo2
some years ago the Truppenübungsplatz Altmark had an open house event and they were showing of some leo 2A5
at first they showed the tanks, which was already nice to see and feel, but then went one and showed a training battle
when you see a 2A5 flying by just a few meters in front of you with over 40km/h offroad is just wow
and with flying by i mean driving and jumping :D
a god way for you to see a leo2 would probably be the Stahl auf der Heide event from the german tank museum Munster
Mmmm, Merlin Spitfire sounds nice, but the high pitched wailing of the .50 cal gunports combined with the Packard Merlin and the slight whisper of the radiator and oil cooler cowl on the P-51 beat it in my humble opinion.
Ive heared a leo 1 at Stahl auf der Heide this year. Even Leo 2 sucks in sound against that beast
So the Dark gods are good for weather, Jingles is a lodestone for the Easy 8 and Roz will inevitably walk into your framing... all in the fine print of your Tiger Day disclaimer. Got it. :) Wish I could have been there and thank you for covering it.
I know what about u'r talking good Sir about feeling engine and all that part. When I was in army, I have to oportunity to spend all day with my palls who were crew 2S1 "Gvozdika" (from Russian to English is "Gillyflower" - from the flower). Full power, full speed. And shooting with 2S1 is pure poetry.
With a little imagination. Imagine a 15 tons mobile howitzer with weight almost 16 tons doing 60 km/h on road.
Something interesting about shooting from this: 2S1 one shell contained a maximum of 5 bags of powder. During shooting I was witnessed, 2 bags were used for practice. In spite of this, standing a few meters away from this mobile howitzer, the earth is shaking from the shockwave. Something unforgetable :) Imagine one shot with 5 bags :D
BTW I was sighting officer rocket launcher BM-21 and RM-71 (son and grandson of Katyusha) FYI :)
Hey Jingles, I get where you are coming from regarding the Leopard, Many many moons ago when i was a young infantryman/sig and we were doing Operation Droughtmaster in the Australian outback, our troop of M113's (we had the pleasure of being mounted infantry for the exercise) had a troop of Leopards attached to us, We would play the game very cagey and and as soon as some of our forward elements even heard the enemy (mostly in Scorpions (M113's with a Scorpion turret )) we would sic the Leopards onto them then proceed through the "carnage" they created for us and on to the next objective. It was glorious every morning hearing them start up. and at the end of the exercise they self transported to staging before they were loaded up on trucks and taken home. Look up Yumping Leopard II on google images :-) because thats how most of their trip on the bumpy desert roads of outback Australia was like
You should hear the sound of a Leopard 2 closely followed by a CV90 blasting past at full throttle just feet away from you. That's a glorious experience to say the least
Jingles, there is an even better example of over engineering in German tanks: the tachometer. A complex piece of machinery requiring something like 50 man hours to build that most countries just did without.
It's also worth noting about your points about logistics that all of the decisions go back to the lessons learned from WW1. Germany had very limited production abilities due to a lot of reasons and they were left with the choice of focusing on slug throwers or support systems. Being the trailblazers in the field and having learned lessons from the trenches about what is necessary for maintenance and resupply they never could adapt to the new reality after the fighting started. If you think about the panzers operational range and the MG34 requirements in terms of WW1 trench breaking then their abilities make more sense.
That Leopard's engine sound is absolutely euphoric.
(Wall of text) On the whole MG34 thing. Yes, it was expensive, yes it needed barrel changes. But you are forgetting a few KEY elements of its design. Fire reliability, and VOLUME of fire.
The MG34, and later the simplified MG42 had the ability to quickly get a large number of rounds downrange. This does exponentially increases the hit probability on a moving target, that really don’t want to get hit. (The MG42’s build inn “circle” spread also helps with this)
So, the point is this: If you spot a squad of soldiers at say 400 meters, you want to put as much fire downrange as fast as possible, in the hopes of hitting one of them before they all hit the dirt and take cover. (That’s only going to take a second or two) So, the chances per salvo of actually getting a kill, is greatly increased with weapons of this fire rate. (Especially in aerial combat)
This is why the MG34’s/42’s and 3’s are general purpose machine guns, and guns like the Bren and BAR are more in the role of Squad Automatic Rifles. (They have their purpose)
Any squad leader worth his salt would take one MG42 into battle vs 2-3 Brens. If he had the choice.
Ahh that sound of the Leopard 1...brings back memories of my servicetime in the dutch army!
Que the "Actually, Jingles...."
A waste of resources, yes. Yet the manner in which the machine guns like the MG34, the first 'General Purpose Machine Gun', was employed were different than that employed by the British and American armies. In the German Army, the gruppe or squad, was built to support the MG because it was deemed as the most effective and lethal weapon. The tactic was to get the gun into a good position and the rest of the squad would support the MG team. Each soldier in the squad could expect to carry a can of ammunition or a spare barrel for it. And the way it was supposed to be fired was in short bursts at moving targets, not long bursts of suppressive fire.
While the MG34 was over-engineered, it was still a big step-forward in small-arms development.
Jingles, if you really want to talk about reliability then please don't go with the nonsense that the T-34 was so realiable because it simply wasn't, they were breaking down at an alarming rate. Russian commanders themselves commented in '42 and '43 how they envied the German tanks because they could do roadmarches without breaking down. British tank also suffered from a lot of reliability issues, especilly up till the middle of the war, and even the much vaunted M4 had a risk to break down after a short roadmarch. 3AD records from '44 and '45 even show a loss of 40% of their tanks for doing a less than 100km roadmarch.
'A task force of 50 tanks moving thirty to forty miles (50-60km) a day will have between 15 and 20 tanks drop out during the day just for maintenance and repair. These repairs could include everything from the minor changing of spark plugs and V belts to the actual replacements of transmission and track suspension elements."
Also, the T-34 does not do 400km on single tank, might want to add that this is with the external fueltanks added, and while the T-34 can do this in theory the reality was that the tank's automotive components couldn't handle this, the oil filters on the tank were terrible to the point that the engine needed to be suppleid with extra oil to prevent it from destroying itself, often meaning that a T-34 would be lucky to do 200km. The tracks themselves were fragile and would snap during roadmarches. And I'm not even going to start on the issue that in '41 for instance T-34's had an extra transmission strapped to the engine deck.
Another issue, which seems to be ignored everytime people start comparing reliability between german and allied tanks, is that the allied tank units had the advantage that their armored units could rest and give periodic maintenance to their tanks, something that is vital and needed for every tank regardless of its design. Every tank, even the M4 needs periodic maintenance in order to keep rolling, if its not given this the tank will breakdown in short notice. This is the problem that many german tank units faced, they could not provide their tanks with the periodic maintenance that these vehicles needed but this is not the fault of reliability in german tanks design but a consequence of strategic circumstances.
Tiger I was almost as reliable as PzKpfw IV, provided it received the needed logistic support and was correctly maintained by its crews. The logistic support required for Tigers and Panthers was generally greater than that required for PzKpfw IV. Disruption to that support therefore tended to adversely impact serviceability rates for Tigers and Panthers, more than the Panzer III or IV. In other words, under relatively favourable conditions the Tiger was not significantly less reliable but under unfavourable conditions this changed.
In particular, regarding Tiger I, in its first several months of service it certainly had some 'teething problems'; to be expected with any new model and especially one as sophisticated as this. However, once these were resolved the Tiger I became fairly reliable under suitable conditions and I recall seeing serviceability rates nearly as good as those for PzKpfw IV.
Tiger II does not seem to have done as well, but it still was not as bad as many would have us believe. Its service came later in the war, when things were much more desperate and many of the problems the tank already had were considerably aggravated, and added to, by conditions that had little to do with the tank itself.
Panther also did not generally perform as reliably as Tiger and one issue in particular, regarding its final drives, was never properly resolved. Nevertheless, prodigious efforts still at times allowed it to run serviceability rates of around 70 percent or slightly better. This may not seem spectacular and it isn't, but nevertheless it was a huge improvment on the dismal reliability of Panther in the first months of its service.
Finally, because of the different reporting system, the technical reliability of german tanks can't be directly compared to that of amercian or british tanks, yet people constantly do. A damaged or broken down tank in a amercian or british unit that could not be repaired in under 24 hours was simple written-off from the inventory and sent off to the rear. This keeps the records clean but it paints the false picture that allied tanks did not have to undergo long term repairs.
While the allied commander had in effect lost a tank it did not show up as such in the records, in contrast a german commander could show up at teh workshop every evening and 'beg for' or 'demand' the workshop's personnel's best efforts to keep the tank there and not have it sent off to the rear because at that point they would lose it. This broken down tank stays on the workshop's roster for days or even weeks for a moment that it can be repaired, giving the false impression that the repairs last that long despite that these might not take more than a couple of hours or maybe half a day
There are several good books written on German tank maintenance with information from historians such as Jentz or Friedli, I can ighly recommend them.
Russians have a different standard for "reliability". Yeah the T-34 broke down, but it could be fixed by a farmer with a hammer.
The Mighty Jingles has got a point I mean replacing a transmission on the Sherman took 2 hours and replacing a transmission on a panther took 6 hours. No matter how you want to look at it overall German tanks broke down more and had longer and more complicated repairs.
“Quantity has a quality all its own.”... quote attributed to Joseph Stalin c. 1943-44.
How quickly you could replace a transmission on a tank has little to do with 'reliability', that is 'ease of servicibility' which is a different thing. German tanks did not break down all that more than their allied or russian counter parts and this is supported by works from historians such as Jentz, Doyle, and Friedli, who are some of the best historians when it comes to German WWII armor.
I was at the multi period event at bovington last year where they ran TWO leopards round the area at the same time, lets lust say that left a mark
When I was a kid at CFB Borden, us kids MUCH preferred the leopards over the old Centurions.. cos the Centurions were all bass... and bass is unidirectional.. when we were out on the tank trails we couldn't tell which way one was coming to run out of the way. The Leopards have that higher pitched burble and we could always tell which way it was coming from. Easier to avoid.
just got a mastery in my Tiger 131 in "WOT" but on the NA server, but king off the battel was the artys that fought to the bitter end, thank you TJN32TA and krriz for a super interesting game.
Jingles, right when you were saying 'the only thing I've heard that's more impressive than the Leopard is...' I immediately thought P-51D..... but then, that's still a Rolls Royce Merlin...... Also, you should come to the EAA Airventure fly-in some year..... largest airshow in North America, loads of warbirds. This year the only 2 airworthy B-29's were there.....
As I was watching this video,I heard a warbird and looked outside as a P-47 Thunderbolt flew over. It's not a spitfire but it still sounds pretty great! (I live 10 minutes away from Duxford)
I would love to get your reaction being on board an American flight deck between catapults 1 and 2 when they start shooting off. There probably would not be anymore Prowlers, they rattle your entire body and a person could lose a filling if they were not careful, but It is still pretty impressive. Final Checking was probably the best job I ever had. /end Wardaddy voice
The Leopard 1 tank sounds like you could hear it coming from 25 miles away!
How about the high pitched whine of an M1A2 Abrams... Couldn't be more different...
Love it good to see handy cap man just now get to see thank you.
in 131 they may binned any demolition charges they were told to take because they didnt want any more items that go boom than they needed in the tank
That Leopard has a distinct Jag V12 sound, albeit much louder, ya the hair on my neck stood up too! Love it. I better see that that Spitfire video posted. :D
This video greatly changed my opinion on my beloved German tanks
I was there on saturday and im still in awe of the sound of the leopard 1
/ActuallyJinglesVoice Actually Jingles, the T-34/76 only had to close to 1600 yards to put a round through the front of a Tiger I. Source, Tanks! on Discovery History (might be Battlefields, I've seen them all like 5 times because theres bugger all else on during the day)
Took my Dad for his 60th. Had a great time and managed to leave about two minutes before the monsoon that hit at about 4...!
I heard the S tank up close. It was pretty impressive, with its twin engine power. Gas turbine and a conventional. I suspect that the leopard 1 got the S tank in the sound department.
The Tiger is such a gorgeous tank.
If you get a hankering for a visit to the colonies, I can take you to military day at the NAS Oceana airshow, the USS Wisconsin, and Norfolk Naval Station for a haze grey overload all in one weekend!
I dont know jingles, an R2800 has a pretty lovely sound as well.
At the mention of the french resistance, a thought popped into my head. That thought was:
"Which one?"
Damn! That Leopard 1 sound gave me goose bumps.
I love how the automatic subtitles says "Music" when you can here the engine of the leopard.