Tank Chats
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- Curator David Willey is back with another Tank Chat. This time, he will be discussing the Sonderkraftfahrzeug 251, which is more commonly referred to as the Sd.Kfz. 251.
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00:00 | Intro
00:26 | Halftrack Origin
03:20 | Development
13:36 | Production and Use
Footage:
Replica Shakedown - German Sd.Kfz 251 (Czech Tatra OT-810)
By @WW2Armor
#tankmuseum #tankchats #DavidWilley #Sdkfz
Hey Tank Nuts! Let us know what you think about this vehicle.
This is a long awaited Tank chat. Thanx!
I ❤ it
Pretty iconic tbh.
it's interesting that people are still talking about the supposed vulnerability of open topped vehicles to indirect fire after 50+ years of images of soldiers riding on top of their enclosed APCs and IFVs because they believe riding around in an enclosed box actually makes them more vulnerable. If you're convinced your survival depends upon hitting the dirt or shooting first riding on top makes perfect sense: You can see better, bail off instantly if you come under fire, and have an extra layer of armor plus whatever junk is inside between you and a mine. And an open-topped vehicle is mostly vulnerable to indirect fire in less common circumstances like air bursts or direct hits. The top is generally regarded as the least vulnerable side of any vehicle, which is why it usually gets the thinnest armor.
The front wheels made perfect sense for a high speed tracked vehicle of that era. They provide the driver with steering feedback and a way to follow most roads without throwing the passengers around and maybe throwing a track or just causing extra wear and tear on the vehicle. Just imagine the hammering constant skid steering would have done to those delicate needle bearings. The front wheels enabled the high speed running that made the needle bearings both necessary and possible in a way that was fairly cheap and easy to implement and allowed them to get away with simple steering brakes when track braking was required. The Universal Carrier used track warping for most of the same reasons.
As for the interleaved roadwheels I'd just note that no one else ever bothered with them because the practical problems outweigh the theoretical benefits. Even the US, which tested the hell out of everything and shamelessly copied anything that worked gave overlapping roadwheels a pass. I suspect the Germans stuck with overlapping wheels because their torsion bar metallurgy wasn't up to the task without them.
I always kind of thought the idea of a half-track was a bit silly. This really put the idea more in perspective. As much as I don't want to commend Nazis, this idea really ended up slotting into their idea of mobile warfare being the future. When they weren't being forced to build absolute nonsense in fear of a leader gone mad (Leading to questionable vehicles like Maus, Elefant and the Jagdtiger), German engineering was really ahead of its time.
Interesting to see a non-tank tank chat about a type of vehicle vital to mobile warfare; the APC and IFV had to originate from somewhere and this a fine presentation of such an example.
APC came from need to deliver infantry in safety to where they were needed and IFV came from need to carry infantry with tanks and as tanks were very likely opponents when your own tanks are going you need something that can threaten tanks and carry that infantry.
Its has tracks therefore its tanks 😅
@@samholdsworth420 *hides the bulldozer to avoid misclassification*
@@samholdsworth420 If you really think that, you need to learn a lot more about tracked vehicles and AFVs in general. Here is a video that explains why the terminology is important.
ua-cam.com/video/hEna9T4zSM0/v-deo.html
@@jacquesstrapp3219 I think he's just joking around, lol.
I had the opportunity to drive an OT810 (Czech copy) and had a blast. It was very intuitive and was easy to drive..... great fun.
Great fun without any flying bullets. 😅
@martinbrode7131 You had to pay extra to have the bullets too - *obviously*
It's not really a Czech copy, this one was made also in the Czech Republic during WW2 and the OT is just an improved version.
Still cooler looking than anything before or since.
Agree ….some what Star Wars look
when you design thing on cocaine ...no cocaine m113...
@@lena19191 I think its the other way around. Star Wars took lots of inspiration from Nazi Germany for its evil Empire designs. Both vehicles and uniforms. I mean, the Galactic Empire is meant to be Nazis in space.
@@lena19191 that’s why I love Star Wars. Some of the designs and scenes are inspired by ww2 and ww1
@@swagguy2171 yep agree
I've always had a soft spot for the 251. As a modeler, It just looks so boss and menacing next to a Panzer 3 or Panzer 4 in Afrika Korps colors. I'd love to drive or ride in one someday.
For all their villainy, they sure had cool looking kit
I did a fine scale model of a 251 back in 1990 when there wasn't much variety (probably a Tamiya) and no 3rd party kits (pre-internet) but I poured over the 1 thin book that I found on the 251 that was only available by mail order. So much had to be scratch made inside that I even made a diorama base for it from plaster of paris in a square mold that I later set in an oak stand. Hmmm don't recall that book even mentioning the ambulance versions. But the 251 was in so many theatres, with so many versions and was modified so much that it is perfect for modelers to get their hands on. Especially after watching the Tank Museum's video on it!
I agree with you. The idea of motorized infantry, especially the pioneer/engineer unit or fast moving assault force is amazing.
@@johnanon6938 Being retired I got back into model building. I've done several of the Tamiya kits. They do have a more recent kit with a better interior detail.
Did the boss of armour troops use these? I didn't realise they were used as command vehicles. I'd love to learn more!
Happy to see more of this. The trucks, jeeps, APC's, prime movers, etc. never get the proper attention they deserve. Just as important to the fight as the tanks.
Logistics wins wars, which is why the side America picks in world wars wins.
Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.
@@stevenschnepp576✡️👃🇺🇸
RIP the third guy to jump out at 8:34 that had to be a painful and scary landing right next to the running gear of that APC.
and the bright light jumping out with his back facing the direction they are traveling... aaaah very well trained i see
That's my all time favorite vehicle of WW2. Iconic machine of blitzkieg, same as ju87.
"You know, the World,🗺 War,💥 Two,2⃣✌ Nazi German,🇩🇪 built,🏢 SD.KFZ 251 half-track mounted with MG34 and MG42 machine gun,🔫 and Flammenwerfer 35 flamethrower,🔥 variants aren't a match for the 1942 World, 🗺 War,💥 Two,2⃣ ✌American,🇺🇸 built,🏢 M1 bazooka anti-tank rocket,🚀 launcher or the M4 General Sherman medium tank,take it out, from the tall bush hedges of the French,🇫🇷 countryside of Nazi German,🇩🇪 occupied France,🇫🇷 during the D-day allied Beach,🏖 landings of Normandy in the date of June six, 6⃣ in the year of nineteen forty-four during the allied liberation,🗽 of France, 🇫🇷 the Netherlands, 🇳🇱 Belgium, 🇧🇪 Luxembourg, 🇱🇺 Denmark, 🇩🇰 Czechslovakia,🇸🇰 and Norway,🇳🇴 from the tyrannical oppressive Nazi German,🇩🇪 third Reich occupation of western Europe in the European theater,🎭 of the year of nineteen forty-four during World,🗺 War,💥 Two,2⃣ ✌?"
"You know the World,🗺 War,💥 Two, 2⃣ ✌Nazi German,🇩🇪 built,🏢 Junkers JU-87 stuka dive bomber,💣 isn't a match for the World,🗺 War,💥 Two,2⃣✌ British, 🇬🇧 Canadian,🍁 🇨🇦 Australian,🌏 🇦🇺 New Zealander,🇳🇿 Jamaican, 🇯🇲 Barbadian,🇧🇧 Indian,🇮🇳 Bangladeshi,🇧🇩 South African,🌍 🇿🇦 Bermuda,🇧🇲 and the Commonwealth of Nations built,🏢 Supermarine spitfire mark 1 and 2 and Hawker hurricane🌀 mark 1 fighter planes, ✈ in air,🛬 battle of great britain,🇬🇧 in the year of fifteen forty, during World,🗺 War,💥 Two,2⃣✌?"
At the end of the day one of the coolest looking armored vehicles ever built.
Following the second war these SchutzPanzers (I don't think any of the kids knew the name beyond 'Jerry Half Tracks' mind) were pretty much iconic of the whole German panzer ethos.
Every comic book, every film which wanted to be taken seriously etc.. Obligatory inclusion 🙄
Another excellent video. Nice to see David back again.
At 13:06 you say that a more 'simplified' version was put in to production as the Model C in 1943. I think that you meant to say the Model D as the 'C' came in to service in late 1941 still with the angular sides & rear of the earlier versions i.e. the vehicle you have there.
Came here to say the exact same thing. Other than that, excellent video.
Also, he pics they show to illustrate the 'new' version are also C pictures, not D. (The editor put the right pictures in for the C, so blame the speaker!)
One of these famous yet overlooked vehicles. According to Military History Visualized, 251/1 carried one MG that belonged to the vehicle and was operated by the crew. The rear one, in case it was mounted at all, was the squad MG (or one of the squad MGs).
In the late 1920s through mid '30s, Ford made a track option available for its truck based on the Model A. My Dad remembered seeing them fairly often during the winters in SD. (If you've seen the Rankin-Bass special "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" the mailman is driving one.) I'm sure a similar option was available from Ford for Canadian and Mexican farmers as well.
The Mattracks Museum in my county has one of those on display.
@@Devin_Stromgren COOL! My Dad said they actually were fairly common, at least in the Northern Tier.
I don't know about before the war, but after the war a lot of surplused Bren carriers were used as utility vehicles on Canadian farms.
@@minuteman4199 How cool would that be? Especially in the snow...
Always loved these since I was a kid! Grossly underappreciated in my humble opinion. This had as much of, if not more, of an impact on mechanized warfare as any tank. Even the best, most mobile, tanks are all but useless without infantry support.
Thank you for this upload. 👍
Always been a fan of German halftracks. As a model builder I am now working on a 251/22 D Pakwagen in 1/16.
Can't wait to finish it but lots of time and patience is needed.
DW Looking good as per usual, great to see him😊😊😊
I always wanted to take one of these on the Paris-Dakar rally in what would probably be the height of bad taste. I always thought they were so cool looking. The Germans had the most interesting looking scout and armoured cars.
In case it was not mentioned before: Sd. Kfz. is the abbreviation of “Sonder Kraftfahrzeug”. So basically a “Special powered vehicle”. Maybe they used it to undergo Versailles treaties…nice vid! Cheers from Germany 👍🫶
Special Purpose Vehicle, but the rest is correct.
@@jeffreyestahl Naja - KRAFT Fahrzeug ist ja schon was anderes als ein Eselkarren…😜
Kraftfahrzeug is still official word for cars , lorries and busses, but not common in daily spoken language. Kraftrad is dated word for motorcycle. I personally would translate,Sonder-' in this context as ,extraordinary'.
SdKfz was for (partially) tracked vehicles (armored or not) as well as wheeled armored vehicles, so IMHO "special vehicle" comes closest.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 At least “extraordinary” vehicles no one would use on a daily basis…😜 Except going to war or something else…
Probably not the first to point this out but the two images 5:01 and 5:04 are sd.kfz 250 based off the smaller sd.kfz.10.
That angled 'peak' in the side armour plate is distinctive.
And the 250 was a Demag chassis, while the 251 was the Hanomag chassis.
I've always been fascinated by the Sd.Kfz. 7 German half track that towed the '88 and carried it's crew.
There were never enough of these. Extemely versatile and every variant was successful. One of the important tasks was as a long-range reconnaissance vehicle for Panzer divisions: quite stealthy , faster than a tank and able to defend itself too.
Among all the cool rigs I’d love to have in the backyard, this is high on the list.
I'd love to see your backyard. 😃
Amen, the ultimate lawn ornament! I remember once making a pak 36 entirely out of scrap exactly for such a purpose because we had such snooty neighbors! 😉👍
@@ottovonbismarck2443
And the swimmer version of the kublewagen for beer runs.
I wish my back yard was as large as one of my these.
I typed this and I regressed many years to my youth when "back yard" was a reference to something which these days isn't politically correct. But moving on....
Supposedly one can still get their hands on the Cold War Czhek version.
I have a corgi model of one from the 70s with the artillery gun towed behind 👍👍
Always been one of my favourites
This was sick. I just built a custom 1/18 PAK wagen variant that was 3D printed for me. I've been hoping to see these gentlemen put together a few videos about some of these machines. Truthfully, when I was a kid, I came across a book in the library covering some of the armor used in the 2nd World War and on the cover was a 251 in action. Instantly, I was hooked. Also, my father works on heavy equipment for a living so naturally I feel an inclination to love anything with tracks
Splendid Chat...
Great work. Thanks for you effort in putting these segments together
Thank you, it is such a pleassure to listen to David Willey, and a great vehicle to cover. I would like to hear more about the sd. kfz 250 some time, such a cool litle thing.
The Vehicle put into production in 1943 would be the Ausführung D, not Ausführung C.
Great video and what a joy to have DW back. First video I've enjoyed (and been able to watch through) for a while now.
I cant wait to see a more detailed look at the conquerer!
Thanks for all the videos
I thoroughly enjoy these programs. Thank you
I have always loved this one - grew up in the '70's with Warlord, Battle, Commando comics and Sven Hassel books.. It, the Schmeisser, Luger, stick grenades were sooo cool.
Great channel. Always interesting and well explained.
Really enjoy these uploads . Been watching for years . As a kit builder built many tamaya half tracks cheep and easy to modify. Keep these top vids coming 👍
Love this vehicle, thank you for the great video
Greatly ahead of its time. Really cool vehicle.
Er ist kein Mensch,
er ist kein Tier,.....
...Er ist ein Panzergrenadier..
😅
How is it ahead ?
Excellent explanation on the development and use of this vehicle, well done!
I must say, having taken a hiatus from watching the tank museum/tank chats content, the production and visual aesthetics of the videos have really reached a new level! Keep up the great work, I think the improvements are working, and looking forward to more amazing quality content!
Absolutely cracking video. Fascinating stuff. Classic vehicle
Yes, I found this quite fascinating. Thank you!
Another super clear and wonderful video - thank you David!
Great presentation. Very well done and informative.
I love the way half tracks look. I know they have all kinds of issues but claiming the rule of cool they are so neat. Thank you for this one.
The period German term for these half-tracks is Schützenpanzerwagen - SPW, sometimes also known as Panzergrenadierwagen - PGW in the late war. I don't know why it's always called the Sd.Kfz. 251 instead of mittlere Schützenpanzerwagen. Nobody calls the Tiger an Sd.Kfz. 181.
Incredibly well presented and with varied images.
Ausf D was the last version with flatter steel sheet angles and to simplify production.
I never knew, the steering would also involve the tracks, what of course does make a lot of sense.
Fascinating as always, thanks very much!
Yes it's easier to drive than a fully tracked vehicle, so someone who can't drive a tank can drive them.
Thank you for sharing
🎖️🏆🇺🇲🙏
Excellent and very tasteful tie!
Great video!
8:35 The solder that jumped out did a total face plant
Good video. Thank you. Nice to have the ambulance version.
Thank you.
Another Great video
The American M-3 Half Track was also extremely popular and the Allies had well over 38,000 at their disposal...
L' Half Track M3, secondo me, superiore al Skdz 251, avendo la trazione anche all' avantreno, con cingoli in gomma, piu' facilmente sostituibili. Comunque, i tedeschi avevano capito l' importanza di questi mezzi blindati rispetto agli autocarri, usati inizialmente per trasporto truppe, poi declinati in altri ruoli ( artiglieria terrestre, contraerea, proiettore, getta ponte, ambulanza.) Saluti.
The M-3 was basically a 4WD truck transmission with driven fron wheels. The Germans could never have offered the cost of a transfer case and extra differential. The M-3 also had rubber tracks. Germany didn't have any natural rubber to add into synthetic rubber for an all rubber track. The KFZ.251 could operate without front wheels.
Another superb Bovington presentation.
Great vid! Thanks.
Great document !!!👍👍👍
Tanks for your time.
If I had Jeff Bezos levels of funding I would seriously commission a 18 ton "Famo" half track and make it road legal.
Just patronizing a few master mechanics would be worth it.
Think someone makes kits
I want one - like yesterday! I need it to take to take shopping, kids off to soccer games etc when it is raining, muddy. If the ref says l can't park near the goal keeper...
I would build on the kubelwagen and modernize to compete with jeep on the roads again.
Half-tracks are not good for pure on-road use, the tracks wear down too quickly and get expensive for the owners.
The main advantage of half-tracks is the fact that they are half tank and half regular truck, so a person familiar with truck driving can simply switch over.
But that really was their only strong point, the rest is too much of a compromise to ever excell at anything.
We today have the technologocal base to produce better units with purely wheeled or tracked drive train and the training of drivers is no issue either.
I just love the Sd. Kfz. 251, its my favorit wehikel of the war!
I saw the Pionier version in the German Panzer Museum in Munster once.
Thanks for this Informating Video.
Best regards from Germany 🇩🇪
For those of us of a certain age, 'SPV' is not a translation of 'Sonder Kraftfahrzeug' but 'Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle'.
‘Spectrum is green!’
and we didn't even care if we could see the strings. Filmed in Supermarionation makes it all ok!
Iconic! Thank you!
Very nice looking vehicle, well built and very useful on the battlefield.
As always, fascinating
The 'big brother' of this vehicle was the SdKfz 8. Though this was a specilised gun tractor with an open back. Just open seats for the gun crew and not armoured. Apparently one of these was captured in the Western Desert conflict and brought back to Britain for analysis with a view to making a copy. This didn't go ahead as British industry would have had to re-tool to make a similar vehicle, and (as David says in his video) it took a lot of field maintence to keep it going. A lot of what I know about AFVs' I learnt from a series of 'magazines' from the publisher, Hylton Lacey. They produced a huge number of "...in Profile" series in the 1960's and 1970's. Before going bust. "Armour in Profile" had reached nearly 150 in the series. Sad they stopped producing these - they were both informative and entertaining. They gave a background of development, production, and use in warfare of each vehicle as well as a full colour centre spread of each vehicle in combat colours and markings.
So Glad you did a video on this
Great video, great to a DW video again
We saw that 251 at the Tank Museum some yeas ago. Sadly its not been fully restored yet but hopefully one day may be so.
Great picture of the German guy getting in the rear of a 251 at 15.01, he's probably asking who ripped the material on the seats.
Love this channels Tank Chats so very well done and informative.
I see you have what looks like an L-3 in the back ground I would love to know more about it.
Marvellous as usual
Great video. I think it is interesting that they decided for half tracks to angle the armour to increase armour thickness and for deflection purposes, but didn't bother doing that for tanks.
It's another fine proof that sloped armor wasn't invented on T-34. There were still some issues with welding thick sloped armor plates, as you can see on T-34 wrecks. If the welding isn't done well, that sloped armor gets you nowhere.
From a production aspect, it was easier to build a rectangular box.
Well, it was originally a czech design... Thank them for it
@@HarborLockRoad I'm afraid it wasn't. You should watch the video. The Czechs continued to build them after the war, so many of what you see in museums and in movies today is of post WW2 Czech origin.
They did do it on their early tanks. Look at the glacis plates, bow sections, and turret sides on a Panzer III or IV; they're not vertical, but are in fact set with a shallow slope. The Germans simply decided to compromise in favour of interior volume rather than maximum protection.
@@kw9849 That's a good point. I should have just looked up. I have a 1/16 scale model of a Panzer I, and sure enough, it was a lot more sloped than I had remembered.
I was at School of Armour in South Africa back in 89/90.
I have always been fascinated by armoured vehicles, but did not know how two rubber tyres could steer a half-track.
Thanks to your video I now understand.
beautiful vehicle!
Great chat 💬 I’ve got 6 of these in a bolt action German grenadier army lol 😂
The ww2 reenactments group i used to belong to had a converted czech skoda ot-810. I recall the diesel fumes were so bad, i was too nauseous to participate in events if we had to use it! At one event, i remember a column of national guard army reservists on a weekend drill stopped their entire column of m113s to check it out. That was pretty cool.
My older brother was nuts about modelling German WW2 armor and aircraft. He must have had over 25 different 1/35 scale Sd. Kfz. 251s in different camouflage schemes, different kinds of stowage and that was just the basic infantry variants. Even had a massive diorama with a column of these encountering some British ambush.
Cool
This had so many variants it's incredible... sdkfz 251/20 is one of the awesome ones.
I think the best halftrack 👍
Precioso vehículo blindado militar me encantan las versiones del skdf tanto de apoyo u ofensiva o reconocimiento del terreno con el oficial… Gracias por compartir,estoy suscrito…
Great guide to their use in combined arms attacks with clear implications for what we're about to see.
Loved this ever since I was a kid, it really has that classic German look
If i had the money i'd buy and modernize one. Or a few. Such an interesting and versatile vehicle! And it looks great.
We called it the Hanomag back in the day. Donnerwetter!
Hanomag was a factory in Hannover that produced them and other machines like Panthers.
I had my photo with David and the m14/41 italian tank on my birthday last month :)
Many German basic designs are used now. Sdkfz 222, Sdkfz 234 and more.
The half track was never going to be around today.
Master lesson about this mythical German vehicle, beautiful design as always
excellent thank you
Hi, I absolutely love your channel, I have a request can you do a video on the history of the M60 tank.
First models and upgraded models.
Keep up the good work all of you are doing!! 🙂👍👍
Love this machine
Nice Video
Incredible.
Wow no way, I just rewatched the Lindybeige video of this today then this pops up :D
Was he the one who said they weren't really that common in German service (outside of panzer grenadier units)?
There was an amusing video of one of these a few years ago driving through a small town in Germany. The track braking system is apparently hydraulic and this particular one was inoperative. The result was hilarious as it tried to make a 90 degree turn onto a side street. It took over 5 minutes of going back and forth while turning the front wheels in small increments, until , at last, it was able to make the turn.
6:34 what a great photograph. Is that the same chassis that also had the 8,8cm flak mounted on it?
I was always curious about the 251. I like them better than the American Half-Track. Thank You.
The American half track was basically a 4WD truck with the rear wheel drive replaced by rubber tracks. The front wheels did all the steering. The German half track were a 2WD truck. Front wheels did the steering for small turns but an adjustable braking circuit progressively applied braking force to the inner track. The differential could be locked. Because of the length of the track and brake steering the German half tracks could be operated with the front wheels flat or removed. The US rubber tracks were maintenance free. The German rubber padded tracks had to be lubricated at each link. Rubber shortage in Germany.
These were rock-hard to come up against in Medal of Honour Underground on PS1 😤
Would love a vid on the Puma Sd. Kfz. Not sure you have it in house, but the APC with a huge gun is just so cool/strange, that I would love a bunch of experts like you, to give opinions and thoughts on it.
I second this
I think the Puma is the Sd.kfz. 234 (more specifically I think it is the '/2' variant) in which case he did a tank chat on it a while ago (#120) but on their 234/3 variant with a different turret. This is the link ua-cam.com/video/D-HPtLPK-Ts/v-deo.html
@@Tinderchaff I know. But that was very short. The 234 vid. I was more thinking in the greater sence of wheeled At/IFV vehicles, that early on. The French was quick on it too, but it was rather novel. At least with that level of gun. Hence the wanting their thoughts and opinions on it in the whole tank/mech/maneuver warfare aspect.
The wet tracks are absolutely wild. Can’t even imagine the maintenance headaches that design choice caused. Would be interesting to know why they stuck with them? As we have the “war” model here with the ausf. C.
The decision to make every pin bear on a set of needle bearings is insane. I question just how well these tracks worked in the long run; I'd wager they were only better than dry-pin for a short period before the needles got contaminated and started brinelling.
Caterpillar does something similar nowadays, but even they use simple bushings.
Always loved this vehicle in Battlefield games, had lots of fun using it as a bus to cap flags and run flanks.
They would constantly get stolen by sweatlord snipers and wasted as they drove them to some far away spot to extreme long range spot all game to make 4 whole kills
Always liked this vehicle, don’t know what it is, the design, the shape, it just looks, well, cool.
What I’ve always wondered though is what the troops that used it thought of it. Ask any US Vietnam era vet about the M113, or any modern vet about the Bradley, and you’ll get … opinions. What did the average troop think of the 251?
Outstanding video and presentation. Great vehicle, one of my favorite German vehicles.