my favourite piece of old-warhammer trivia is where the whole idea of chaos came from. The story goes that basically, back in the day, designing and printing unique models was much more expensive, too early to justify at this early stage, so they needed a reason to include 2 near identical armies in the same box as enemies, hence we got space marines and chaos space marines (I think it actually might've been titans, but you get the idea), and the Horus heresy was written just to justify a cost saving
Chaos had already existed in Warhammer before they made rogue trader. You might be thinking of the fact space marines were designed initially to resemble sci fi chaos warriors.
Designing and printing? I think you mean sculpting and casting! The plastic titans were literally identical sculpts, but half were blue and half were red. Plus you got six Warlords for £10.
I still remember the Fantasy-40K connection back in the day that you could find warriors of chaos with plasma pistols, dark elves with power fist, and the story that Sigmar came from space and may have been a lost primarch... good times.
@@abcdodd if you ever get the chance, read the background lore in the 6th ed WHFB rule book. It’s implicated subtly that Sigmar Heldenhammer crashed landed as a baby.
One of the old fantasy short story collections featured a chaos champion of khorne fighting his way across the wastes to become a Daemon Prince, and one thing he found during his journey was essentially a laser. Plus, in the old Realm of Chaos books, a chaos champion could be directly gifted items such as chainswords by their patron.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't at some point, the world of classic Warhammer be implied to be a world inside the 40k universe, surrounded by a warp storm that essentially cut it off from the rest of the world?
@@evanharrison4054 Basically, yeah. The old Realm of Chaos books makes it pretty blatant, near enough the first page of Slaves to Darkness talks about how the 'Old Slann' (the Old Ones nowadays) travelled between worlds and set up gateways on each world they visited, then describes how they collapsed on the fantasy battle world creating links to warpspace. The text even ends describing how the Imperium of Man is also assailed, so it was clearly in the same universe in the lore at the time.
The tone of incredulity in this video surprises me. I mean, even today, it's a game with Space Knights, the Space Empire, Space Elves, Space Undead, Space Orks, and, yes, Space Dwarves (a race of short, doughty miners with very Nordic naming conventions? Still dwarves).
You know, Horus Heresy takes up too much oxygen in the fandom and lore these days. Bring back focus on the Badab War and Age Of Apostasy. Return to tradition.
I’m still waiting for a book series on the Badab War. Seriously BL need some books focusing on the massive span of time between the HH and “Modern” 40k. Sure we have The Beast Arises series but…I mean come on
@@parkermaisterra8532 agreed, right now the timeline of the Imperium feels both too front loaded and too back loaded. Hell, I'd like a shorter series about the First War Of Armageddon. A lot of important figures in the current era were around for that.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary honestly, Vraks is another one for me. The FW campaign books fleshed that one out a lot and it would be cool for some fiction about it.
Speaking of goofy Space Marines: Back in the era of Space Hulk 1st ed (I think just before WH40K 2nd ed) there was an article in Dragon magazine for a Space Hulk campaign in which your marines wore normal beaky armor and carried a boom box because their objective was to fight their way into a space hulk to literally dance in face of humanity's enemies and terminator armor is too bulky to dance properly.
@@Shoutatclouds Haha, omg, yes. I hadn't read that for 30 years, but found the archived pdf: The Space Marine Recreator Squad " In short, the Recreators enter Genestealer Space Hulks and dance, just to prove they can. A squad broadcasts to Space Marine chapters throughout the Imperium demonstrates its courageous triumphs over the enemy." "The Recreators' special armor, customized by the Imperium's Adeptus Mechanicus, gives the waist flexibility they need to perform their lumbering but strangely majestic dances."
NGL the idea of Chaos Cultist Genestealers sounds absolutely incredible. Like imagine an Aberrant who worships Khorne and got blessed- it’d be ridiculous
Chaos was very random on the early editions, lots of charts. So you could have say a Patriarch possessed by a Daemon but you could roll a Bloodthirster or a Nurgling.
Hi. Complete Eldar simp stuck in the 80's and former GW employee here. I have a few notes on this video (as I happen to be going through the 1st edition book anyway) 1. Sisters of battle are in the Rogue Trader. Or rather Adepta Sororitas. Page 269 2. Space marines, if anything have gotten FAR more weird since "1980s commandos in sci fi powered armour" Now we have Space vampires with wings? 3. The Eldar were glorious; they were simply better, more expensive, etc. 4. The most important bit is how fair things were, because there was ONE wargear list, one Psionics list, etc. 5. Any and everyone could be in a chaos band, but there were no 'keywords'. there REALLY should be Chaos Everyone now. 6. Rogue Trader was not an RPG 7. ZOATS!!!! (Still in my Corsairs army) Some things you may have missed: a. Jokaero b. Flora and fauna (Gyrinx, Catachan Dev.....everything, etc) c. off board support weapons d. ROBOTS (you had to write a flowchart program for them. they got their own phase. e. Psicannons were tiny pistols with bullets coated in emperor excrement. f. Everyone had dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts were what we might call Invictor warsuits' today. g. Mentor Legion.
You really hit the nail on the head - I'd also add the following things missed - a. Vortex grenades b. plasma grenades c. conversion beamers d. power fields on dreadnoughts and robots e. didn't dreadnoughts have jump packs back in the day? f. The game board sized vehicles you could use as a map g. Flight packs! h. All the ork bionics
h. Warp storms worked almost the other way around: the disturbances kept dangerous Warp creatures _away_ in the same way that birds will fly away from a tornado. The Eye of Terror was actually the safest place in the galaxy from malevolent Warp entitites, it was just impossible to use Warp travel inside it because of the storms.
Honestly, 38,000 years in the future and all those names are derived from the myths of old. It's basically like being named Gilgamesh or Hercules. Hell, we have kids now who were named Dovahkiin by their parents, why couldn't this dude's parents just really do him like that and name him after their favorite ancient movies?
@@chaoticantifreezeehhh kinda, it’s more like they view civilians as resources to be expended in war (letting a bunch of Orks rampage a refugee camp so they can have the Orks in one spot to blow them all up with artillery) still fucking evil tho
@@bingusmingus2937 Why do Salamanders, Lamenters, and Imperial Fists even allow the Marines Malevolent to keep going? I feel like Vulkan would absolutely wreck their primarch if they had one.
Considering the Tau's colony ships and scouting ships are travelling father then ever before the Tau are looking for any good possible colony worlds even in the remote ends of space, it's probably not long before the Tau stumble onto some remote worlds with small populations of Zoats on them...
@@heitorpedrodegodoi5646 Originally in 40k they were the old ones but then they got retconned to just be a servant race of the Old Ones. Like in the modern day 40k continuity the Slann still exist, they just got rid of most of their technology and live simple lives on fringe worlds (or at least they did before the Great Rift was formed.)
I kinda love the idea that space marines being these "stoic warrior monks" is propaganda and that in reality they're just these knuckle dragging, beer-chugging fratboy asshole space cops Just has that grimark satire edge that is slowly being sanded away from the setting so it can be more "heroic"
its absolutely possible there's a successor chapter somewhere that is just like this. ESPECIALLY if they're rolled in with the local guard or pdf. Is it standard, hell no, is it totally possible and almost likely at least somewhere? absolutely. someone should just write that, astartes trained and raised right along guard, who are just cigar smoking, booze pounding, mega bro's.
This was the actual canon of 3rd, basically. So much of the lore we know is/was meant to be exaggerated imperium propaganda. This was part of the whole satire element of 40K. In fact, the designers have pretty much stated outright that in early 40K the intent was the emperor is meant to be secretly straight up dead. There's lots of hints of this in the earlier lore, references to the golden throne breaking down, there's a pretty strong undercurrent that the general superstitions of the imperium are just that. There was an edge of cynicism that was meant to strongly contrast the future envisioned by star trek specifically. Star Trek is basically optimistic, egalitarian, scientific. 40K is pessimistic, hierarchical, superstitious. If you can find the book "heavenfall" for the spin off game inquisitor and read through the lore in there, it gives more background than is typical of lore books at the time, and it makes clear that, for instance, a bunch of Space Marines are brought in the put down a revolt (a revolt that begins because imperial mismanagement and climate change is killing and starving what was once a verdant paradise), they do this by killing half the planet's population, and it doesn't actually make anything better on the planet, but after the marines leave the remaining population is made by imperial priests to worship the marines as their saviors.
Yes, they were a parasitic race from the moon of Ymgarl, and the native "base" form had a leech-like head and a long tail. Eventually these "Ymgarl Genestealers" were retconned as an aberrant offshoot of the Genestealer genus.
Honestly, I still recommend Ian Watson's 40k book, because despite some of the gross stuff, they give you that sort of "First Time Experience" akin to watching Apocalypse Now, for the first time. You are descending into this demented world, full of horrors, following demented characters who can only partially comprehend the world around them, being warped by it, both mentally and physically. There's this quite existential, psychedelic horror atmosphere to them. Moreover, Watson made W40k WORK. Like think about it, at the time w40k was, as of yet, a shapeless mass of ideas snatched together from Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers, Elric Of Melnibone, Aliens, DnD, Dune, Lovecraft and probably more. Then, they gave that bag of clustefuck to a writer who drops Acid like it's gummy bear - and yet, it somehow worked. (P.S: I, for one, do wish that GW would bring back the 80's metal vibe, even if only in terms of aesthetics.)
The recipe for old 40k was: 1 part space. 1 part fantasy. 1 part post apocalypse, like Road Warrior. Add a dash of satire. Add a teaspoon of spoof. Bake around a game table with lots of laughs. Serve garnished with mohawks and bright colors. For dessert, be - perhaps - surprised it takes off with the fans and needs years of development to become an entirely different dish.
Wouldn't Drukari be classified as Chaos Eldar of Slannesh? Extreme emotional highs: ✅ Debauchery: ✅ Masters of t0rture: ✅ Fast and nimble: ✅ Devouted to pleasing Slannesh:* ✅ *Because otherwise they would die
Other old school 40k things: 1. Eldar used lasguns rather than shuriken catapults as their basic weapon. Space marines could use shuriken catapults if they wanted, Orks had boltguns, and plasma cannons. 2. Tyranids could deploy "mind slaves" which were enslaved units from other races, thus you could use Orks, or Chaos Space Marines in a Tyranid army. 3. Space Marines had jetbikes. 4. The Imperial Guard used Ork mercenaries, typically Blood Axes, who would in turn mimic imperial guard uniforms, armour and equipment. 5. Blood Axes also used Rhinos rather than Battlewagons as their transport vehicle in Epic Space Marine. 6. Ork wierdboyz were terrified of combat because the waaagh energy was dangerous and caused them signifcant pain, they had to be escorted into battle by "Minderz" who would keep the wierdboy in the fight and occasionally aim him like a canon at the enemy, if all the minderz were slain the wierdboy would run off.
Speaking of metal, warhammer editions in lore, tone and style literally are like the discographies of most 80's and 90's metal bands; - they peak with the debut, radiating with youthful passion and originality - they slowly refine their style with the two followups - get more serious and professional by finding their niche in any given subgenre - do some experimental shit that pisses all their fans off - and eventually they fail spectacularly in trying to get old fans back with a poor attempt at replicating their original style but infused with nu, core or power metal elements to also impress the zoomers, turning it into a complete clusterfuck that somehow still takes off Warhammer is metal af indeed
Hell, Bolt Thrower named themselves after bolters, and made a whole album about Chaos Space Marines (Realms of Chaos), it doesn’t get any more metal than that!
Honestly I miss the level of detail and freedom of the old edition. The fact that you learn what certain peoples rations are like and you can have someone in your army pick up an ork gun just makes the world feel more lived in to me. Nowadays every faction has some rigid lore about how they wouldn’t even touch another’s weapons but it just makes each faction feel like it’s in its own universe completely separate from the others
Tau 8ed codex has a whole page about their language and names. Tau 9ed codex is a disappointment. They had a high level of detail up until recently, but detail doesn't make money.
yes in lore but how often do you see it on the tabletop? During the older editions the lore and gameplay seperation was non existent. So yeah a space marine or an ork could field an eldar shuriken rifle. If the the player could field the points. @@ElishaFollet
Part of that came from (at least on the model side) the fact that they didn't have any. The company couldn't make unique things for every army, which is why everyone have bolters and Rhinos. But I think the other change is how toyetic 40k has gotten over the years. Everyone started getting their own wargear in 3rd editon, but this has gone absolutely nuts in recent editions. Entire units existed because their bolter was different from every other bolter, and that happened because GW needed more things to sell. I'm doing a back-conversion to 2nd edition, and it's so refreshing to write "X is just a power axe," or "this thing is a bolter."
Space Marines now: The emperor protects, also, I gotta get my armor blessed by techpriests before battle so that I won't die (hopefully). Space Marines then: Hold on, I gotta rub the blood of the elderly onto my bolter so that I won't miss a shot and baby feces onto my visors so that I can see better.
Your forgot to mention some interesting stuff about the Orks, like the Khornate ork boys that were seen as teenargers in aphase and ork genestealer cults with severals arms. It's very important to remember about the genestealers that they were not Tyranids yet, they were their own race from the moons of Ymgarl, wich is interesting
You're talking about the ork stormboyz - they were not necessarily followers of Khorne, but you could also have 'stormboyz of khorne' in your army lists. There were also ork mutants and ork/genestealer hyrbid models (which were two different things)
In the companion/compendium/white dwarfs harlequins could bring looted vehicles like orcs…. Except you had to role at the beginning of the turn to see if it broke down…. Literally a clown car… they were a circus sub faction of Eldar before the aspect warriors became a thing.
Don't forget there was some really cool stuff like vampires being warp creatures and lots of flora and fauna for death worlds. I miss these aspects of 40K.
The goofy vibe and art style speak to my inner 80s kid, love it. In moderation it could offset the grimdark and bring more people into the lore. Caiphas Cain, ect.
Hah, yeah man. Highly recommend all his stories - it gets even better. Keep the garbage California modernity out off 40k at all costs. Striking that gallows humor balance with the classic gut wrenching grimdark go authentically and naturally together. Remember that warhammer young adult bs run they tried? Brilliant marketing... ah hahah.
The grim, depressing, and utterly bleak hopelessness of Rogue Trader got to me as a teenager on an existential level - that I would fade before I was noticed, and replaced with newer, brighter lights, and that the future held nothing more than a greater grinding misery than the present, got under my skin in a way that body horror or gore of the later editions has never managed. The "grimdark" that came later has always felt somewhat like catnip for edgy teenage boys.
I miss the sheer lunacy of the early editions. It's like GW forgot that Warhammer is supposed to be fun. They need to embrace a bit of the silliness, sometimes let things be grimderp for the sake of being grimderp. What 40K needs is its own variant of Blood Bowl. Maybe make a Warhammer 40,000 pro-wrestling board game.
FR. why did they have to take the comedic relief out of every faction but the orks. i like old fantasy lore being so silly (the changeling whoopie cushioning khorne with a nurgling is canon lore) and fantasy really mixed the darkness with the absolute absurdity of the setting quite well so i never felt it was completely serious.
I came up with a lore idea for a 40k Blood Bowl years ago that I think fits will. A radical Inquisitor comes across a Dark Eldar fighting arena and thinks that's just fine. He works with the Dark Eldar to codify the rules, ultimately creating a game that looks suspiciously like space football. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only FOOTBAAAAAAAALL!
@@rrwholloway they definitely are 2nd ed. I had the white dwarf where you got a free warrior when they came out. If you Google necron raiders 2nd ed you will see some in 2nd ed blisters etc
Ok I agree, with a few notes. Firstly, 1st and 2nd were grimdark as hell. Despite the odd humor present sometimes. Yeah, 1st edition was also pretty weird. But don't mistake a bright paint pallette for something it's not. Look at some Heavy Metal magazine from the era. For the length of the video, this was a pretty good summary. Forgot to mention Chaos Androids which looked like Necrons. Also, in 1st edition, you could play Ork mercenaries, rogue Space Marines that weren't necessarily Chaos, Eldar pirates and corsairs and mercenaries, and Slaan, who in lore at that time WERE the Old Ones. Also the Eye of Terror was smaller. And the original Legions were different. Everybody had way fewer vehicles because the models didn't exist, and GW wasn't set up to be able to make a bunch of different plastic kits easily. The standard armor you are referring to is Mk VI armor, which everybody should know. Tyranids actually were ALWAYS an extragalactic threat, you were just only given snippets of lore. Canonically, Zoats were diplomats of some of the early hive fleets. Also you could encounter free zoats that presumably were refugees. While the Horus Heresy was barely a footnote at first, it became more of a big deal when they released the original Adeptus Titanicus. I miss Squats, they were cool. They had some lore. I think they actually got more lore in the Space Marine 2nd edition (epic) supplement Ork & Squat Warlords than they did in 40k, although I'm sure there were several White Dwarf articles. I'm not completely familiar with the Leagues of Votann lore, but it seems to be written so that these are the survivors from when the Squat homeworlds got overrun by Tyranids. Maybe that was just marketing, though. I didn't catch at what point the Squats were integrated. Last I knew they were allied with the Imperium. I'm sure it's there, I just don't remember having read it. I didn't really see a lot of lore updates in 3rd other than the introduction of Dark Eldar. Necrons came in at the end of 2nd. 2nd was almost a reboot, though. Rules-wise it was a clean-up of all the evolutions of 1st edition rules, with a lot of streamlining applied. I still like 2nd edition best out of all of them, although 8th comes in a close second. And Lord knows there are problems with both of those. Oh! And on Orks, which also ties in to Tyranids, there was a now apocryphal story (the Space Marine novel is also no longer canin, but you knew that), wherein an Imperial probe sent beyond the galactic rim detects some stuff that might be Tyranids, and much to the horror of the tech-priests, Ork signals from every nearby galaxy (which in terms of galaxies is a looooong distance, I'm sure). The implication everything outside the Milky Way is either Tyranids or Orks. Every nearby galaxy is dominated by Orks unless it's be eaten by Tyranids. I guess the Old Ones spread the Orks to a bunch of places.
So as someone who got Rogue Trader at its release event can I just say you did a great job. I do feel sometimes some of the rough and ready feel of early 40k has been lost over the years. But it's still fun.
Not only did everyone get bolters, they also could get shuriken rifles, even space marines. And there were humans that painted themselves green and joined an ork warband. And the orks were happy to see them.
Equipment in RT was limited by tech level not race. So a fast play style was not limited to eldar Squats on powerboards and marines on jet bikes were insane. You need to read RT alongside the compendium and companion to really understand it.
my headcannon is that the drawrves/squats from 1st edition left the Emperium and joined a private mining corporation on some distant unexplored sector of the 40k galaxy. here they kill bugs, mine all day, and drink beer.
One important aspect of the early 40K lore that frequently gets overlooked: there wasn't an existential threat to the Imperium of Man. In the Rogue Trader book, Tyranids were just another race, not a locust swarm poised to devour the entire galaxy. Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar weren't a thing. There were no Traitor Legions trying to destroy the Imperium from the Eye of Terror either (not until Adeptus Titanicus): when demon-like Warp entities got summoned into realspace, their first priority was to try and get _back_ to the Warp because they didn't like it here. Orks were mere barbarians, and the chief reason they were all over the galaxy was that the Imperium wasn't competent enough to keep them in check. IG commissars looked like the Gestapo, not like Napoleonic hussars, and space marines were basically Sardaukar. Everything about the lore made it clear that Imperial propaganda was bullshit, that the Imperium was its own worst enemy and that literally any other political system would have been more effective at protecting mankind from external threats. Of course, when it became clear that WH40K was evolving into a wargame focused on pitched battles between armies, other races had to be beefed up so they could compete with the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines on the tabletop. But taking that route meant validating the Imperium as the "defenders of mankind" because suddenly there _really_ were other factions that could swallow up the galaxy if the forces of the Imperium weren't there to stop them, and for me that weakened the central element of the lore. I enjoy current WH40K, but I do miss the time when the real reason the galaxy was "grim and dark" was not that there were ugly monsters out there, but that the people who were supposed to protect you from those monsters were in fact The Fucking Worst.
You make some really good points. One of the things I like most about 40k is some of the darkly humorous satirical lore stories about how many rich nobles/highborn in 40k are selfish psychopathic weirdos who spend way too much time plotting against each other, unintentionally messing things up for other people through their arrogant incompetence and/or doing dumb heinous $h1+ instead of properly doing their appointed jobs of being the royalty overseeing governments or just peacefully enjoying their lives of wealth and privilege. It's like the setting is making fun of itself. At first glance the setting makes it seem like it's implying that a human galactic empire run by the nobility might actually be a good idea. However the setting then ruthlessly parodies itself and skewers thr idea of the nobility ruling a galaxy by showing that that kind of government would only possibly work out okay if it was run by benign superhumans like the Emperor or one of the Loyalist Primarchs instead of just flawed normal human beings who additionally have messed up views about life due to their inherited wealth and privilege. (Some examples are Herman von Straub, Goge Vandire, Sepheris Secundus, how horribly inefficiently run Terra is, how many Planetary Governors are just selfish psychopathic obese oafs, Duke Severus XIII and the Severan Dominate, the Scintillian Fusiliers, the Ventrillian Nobles and all the lore from about what $h1++y people Lord Gerontius Helmawr and most of the other nobles of Necromunda are like as well as how terrrible Necromunda is in general.) Also I kind of wish there was like 2 lines of warhammer 40k lore like maybe "warhamme40k grimdark" for the modern day lore and like "Warhammwr 40k cartoony" or "warhammer 40k retro" for the more classic style lore.
I liked the old narrative battle generator in the back of the RT book, especially the one involving an administrative error where 2 identical forces are sent to a planet to fight shapeshifting aliens but end up having to slaughter each other instead!
@@SurprisinglyDeep It's not so much that they "had to" but that they each assumed that the _other_ contingent was the shapeshifting enemy. Because neither had been notified of the other's presence.
Rouge trader is really something. I wish 40k still had some of these goofy things still in current setting like the genestealer limos it made 40k feel a little more like a setting that was lived in.
I love the feel of old editions, where they are much closer to playing an rpg with a squad of guys, rather than a single character. The old scenarios even used to include a game master that would have secret knowledge and spring surprises on the players, or play a third faction interfering with whatever the game objective was.
I love the Heavy Metal/Ralph Bakshi era of Sci Fi, and as much as I love what Warhammer is today (for the most part), I do wish that more was being made in that style
Here's how I make Chaos Androids coexist with Necrons in my Warhammer 40k universe: making former Men of Iron that used as physical bodies for warp entities As well making both Rainbow Warriors and Valedictors 2nd and 11th legions respectively
Hot take, but i sorta like the technobarbarian knuckledragger style the old sm had more than modern sm Also, i think you raise a good point with the fast paced playstyle eldar have, because its made me realize that part of the dominance of space marines in general games until now, because sm can play basically any way a player could want.
I feel like you can really see meat of where Warhammer came from when you see theae old editions, other than being more like it's Fantasy counterpart but... in space, you can also see that the people writing it were the same people who worked in 2000 AD.
W40K came out of the very excellent lefty artistic reaction to Thatcherism. Judge Dredd, the RPG paranoia, many, many works of scifi were warning us against top-down conformity and the rising plutocratic class. The snark of these works remains inspirational to this day.
4:04 In early warhammer you really saw it was supposed to be a post-post-post apocalypse. Space Marines did actually degenerate from the heresy and while they were monstrus and grimdark they were the best what humanity had. They are portrayed way too heroically now. 6:33 You say it's silly I say they really tried to sell the post-apocalypse vibe. A lot of early 40k lore weirdly echos stuff from African wars. The sisters of battle and why van Dyke created them clearly mimic African Presidentators with their units of harem bodyguards where they have hundrets if armed wife bodyguards. Or the names of Afrian warlords often being silly like General Buttnaked or Rambo Schwarzengger Terminator. Or my favorite duo: General Mosquito and General Mosquito Spray
As a more recent 40K fan, I can't say that I am a huge fan of the goofy, 80s metal aesthetic or a lot of the heavy fantasy-inspirations. I happen to like grim dark and I prefer my comedy more understated. I like gothic horror, but have always been more lukewarm towards high fantasy. That being said, I found this video fascinating! It is always really interesting to see how an idea evolves over time. Even if the roots aren't my cuppa, I can fully appreciate why people enjoyed it.
Older orks had a lot of fun things going on-orks fallen to chaos, genestealer-ork hybrids, and human mercs are some of my favorites. My blood axes today have some humie mercs as a nod to the older stuff.
The medieval fantasy look mixed with guns is what got me into the games. I liked the old rogue trader look an theme. I like the lore etc now as well, but it doesnt have the same feel to it.
The Marine units were based on infantry units of the day and they all had jump packs. Think Robert A. Heinlein's book Starship troopers where everything was done in a form of power armour ""On the bounce" . They even had Field Police (MP's) and the Legion of the Dammed was a penal legion for Marines The Imperial Guard was more expendable but backed by numbers and Penal Legions (Suicide Bombers) and I can understand why they disappeared after Conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. This is more grim dark for those of us who lived this than anything GW can imagine as the "Penal Legions" were often kids who should have been playing the game not taking part. In all, I loved this version and the RPG elements allowed us to play up to the point of battle, when the tabletop was hastily arranged into a battle ground. Unfortunately, I lost all my books and mini's in a house fire so when my son's became interested I wanted to show them how I used to play but couldn't remember the rules.
I miss some of the goofy stuff, but I also love Orks as they are currently. A lot of the ideas where half baked and got refined for what we have now. I do miss the Trikes that the Squats used to have, and we have more updated version with the Pioneers. The Beaky helmets have always been a favorite of mine seeing the old art from my cousins playing Fantasy and showing me the old White Dwarf books they had.
And they were more along the lines of The Terminator in space initially, with absolutely no ancient Egyptian/ Warhammer Fantasy Undead stuff going on. Also the gauss flayers were pointy. I have one of the original models they released as a free item on the front of the White Dwarf magazine.
@@wolf40k Back as far as I'm talking about there were no lords. They were like prototype necrons. Warriors existed. I don't think scarabs showed up until later. Mind you this was basically White Dwarf content ONLY. They didn't get a rule book until later which is when I assume we got lords and scarabs etc. I might be remembering incorrectly about the scarabs.
I do wish GW would bring back some of the concepts from 1st & 2nd edition. There's a lot of charm in those editions that has been lost throughout the years.
diplomatic orks would have been cool. have roving ork traders or mercenary groups looking for a good fight (and some money for drinking), really make the orks feel closer to a real "chaotic neutral" faction that is really just down with anything that is fun and violent, or work that allows them to buy things that bring fun and violence.
Man, the Rogue Trader/early 40k stuff was fun. I miss the days when things weren't so serious & the setting was a dark parody of sci-fi in general. The miniature rules & setting was such that you could take any miniature army from any time period & put them on the table. I also love the biker Space Dwarves ie Squats.
The Realm of Chaos books were the best. Which you can create random warbands. Which included the real offspring and descendants of the Emperor. They were also the first place the chaos legions and Grey Knights were introduced.
Speaking as a Long Fang I think you've blended some first and second edition lore together here. Stuff like the Age of Apostasy, the Sisters of Battle as we know them and Abaddon weren't first edition. Rogue trader can best be defined by the rulebook, Chapter Approved, the White Dwarf Compendium and two Realm of Chaos books maybe with some Warhammer Siege thrown in. Towards the end of the edition we started to see more on the Heresy but that was mostly built upon via Adeptus Titanicus, then Space Marine which focused on the Scouring then the Realm of Chaos books building further on this. I think RT is probably best divided into early, mid and late edition as a subject matter because unlike later editions it substantially evolved within the edition the closer it got to second edition via White Dwarf unlike all editions that were to follow. Stuff like the Badab War though wasn't as huge as people seem to think, it's more like one of those remember berry moments that people seem to think it was a bigger deal than it was probably due to later exposure of the Forgeworld books.
Most people don't know the environment when Rick and the guys hacked Rogue Trader together. The Slaanesh beasts are the Fendahline from the Doctor Who episode Image of the Fendahl. The Nurgle beast is the monster from the old film The Creeping Terror. Traders, pirates, muties are from various Warrior/2000AD comics like Judge Dredd. Chaos demons and lore are from various Michael Moorcock books such as Elric, Hawkmoon, etc. Space Marines, psi marines, and Tyranids are from Heinlein's Starship Troopers (nothing to do with the film of the same name). Genestealers are from the film Alien.... I'll edit if I remember any more.
I kind of miss the old lore of SM being unhinged roid lunatics on a fundemental level, their loyalty and humanity kept in check only by extensive indoctrination.
"What's wrong with that guy?" "He stared too long into a 1st edition codex" "FEMALE SPACE MARINES, CHAOS ELDAR EXIST, LEMAN RUSS WAS JUST A NORMAL GUY!" "Nobody's ever been able to decipher the rambling"
Imma be brutally honest. I kinda prefer some of this older lore, it just strikes me as more fun and interesting. I prefer older Squats I like their aesthetic and them just being Dwarfs in space. I'm not the biggest fan of the sleek Votann aesthetic I honestly thought they were Tau auxiliaries when they were first shown. I like the older Eldar Lore were they are much more competent and mystic and I like the idea of Chaos Genestealers because what if a Genestealer eats a chaos mutant or infects a Chaos Cult first. I honestly think this stuff has a place in modern 40k. Now imma not be blind and say its all good like the Poop eating or the silly Inquisitior or the Zoats but there are some concepts I just prefer over the modern setting. Also Beakie armour with visors will always look badass. I wouldn't mind seeing Marines who are more thuggish alongside the more warrior monk style Marines.
Dude, Squats are SO much cooler than LoV. A trike, 2 dwarves, a huge barrel of beer with a heavy machine gun mounted on it... SO SO much better than what we have now.
While the modern setting obviously has a lot more content and development, something about the original version's galaxy feels more alive I guess? As in it feels like the galaxy has a lot more weird stuff going on in it potential for bizzare minor factions showing up, there is a lot more unknown factors going on. I kind of wish the setting had more stuff like that, scale all of the big players back in scope a little bit to open gaps of space that no factions have really looked into in depth yet. I know some examples exist but I'd like to see more minor xeno's empires and breakaway human factions that the imperium hasn't gotten around to deal with for several centuries or even more remnants of pre imperium golden age human civilization. I think stuff like this helps sell that this is a vast galaxy mostly filled with rotten empires that struggling to hold on to what they claim, the Tau in concept are basically supposed to show that new civilizations are growing in the cracks but I think they should be far from the only one. On another note, I really do not like what they have done with the Tyrannids, mostly at a plot and scale level, I have no issue with their concept or designs. The old Galaxy based version avoids the two main issues that I have with the tyrannids, they have no character and there is no real insight into how the hive mind actually thinks. Nerf the hive mind's ability to just create any lifeform the plot demands to make them more dangerous to nesscitate them capturing and enslaving more races to the hive mind like the Zoats to cover weaknesses they currently have. This gives them a reason to not just eat everything because some can be more valuable alive. This only expands the kind of creepy and gross alien horror the tyrranids are supposed to have while allowing them to expand or even "communicate" through other races they have turned into flesh puppets. My second issue with the new tyrannids is the overwhelming extra galactic force they present, while this is grimdark it basically means the most likely outcome is that everyone will be overwhelmed eventually, meaning that in the long term nothing that happens really matters, at least scale them back to coming from only one direction. This also limits the potential of other extra galactic entities possibly showing up, stripping more mystery from the setting. I am personally a fan of the idea that a colony could have been sent outside of the galaxy before the collapse and they (or their AI successors) could possibly return and have diverged so far in the past 20000 years as to be virtually unrecognizeable as humans the imperium.
My favorite thing about old warhammer is specifically that ork portrait with the one ork in the back of the crowd pressing the palm of his hand against the butt of his gun. I absolutely love that stupid little post hes doing and wish it was commonplace for orks trying to control recoil or something. Overall i just really liked the way orks looked back then.
Elaborate and very detailed desciptions of feats, Sex with Shapeshifter, being horny for Genestealers, poop eating ceremonies, killing cats, casually sneaking into the Imperial Palace and being initially ok with turning all of Humanity into a Hive-Mind.
my favourite piece of old-warhammer trivia is where the whole idea of chaos came from. The story goes that basically, back in the day, designing and printing unique models was much more expensive, too early to justify at this early stage, so they needed a reason to include 2 near identical armies in the same box as enemies, hence we got space marines and chaos space marines (I think it actually might've been titans, but you get the idea), and the Horus heresy was written just to justify a cost saving
If true, then it was smart and cost effective marketing.
It explains why several loyalist legions have a straight up evil twin 😂
@@vaiyt Are you Alpharius?
Chaos had already existed in Warhammer before they made rogue trader. You might be thinking of the fact space marines were designed initially to resemble sci fi chaos warriors.
Designing and printing? I think you mean sculpting and casting!
The plastic titans were literally identical sculpts, but half were blue and half were red. Plus you got six Warlords for £10.
I still remember the Fantasy-40K connection back in the day that you could find warriors of chaos with plasma pistols, dark elves with power fist, and the story that Sigmar came from space and may have been a lost primarch... good times.
OMG! That's PERFECT! I never heard that, but I am sold on the idea.
@@abcdodd if you ever get the chance, read the background lore in the 6th ed WHFB rule book. It’s implicated subtly that Sigmar Heldenhammer crashed landed as a baby.
One of the old fantasy short story collections featured a chaos champion of khorne fighting his way across the wastes to become a Daemon Prince, and one thing he found during his journey was essentially a laser. Plus, in the old Realm of Chaos books, a chaos champion could be directly gifted items such as chainswords by their patron.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't at some point, the world of classic Warhammer be implied to be a world inside the 40k universe, surrounded by a warp storm that essentially cut it off from the rest of the world?
@@evanharrison4054 Basically, yeah. The old Realm of Chaos books makes it pretty blatant, near enough the first page of Slaves to Darkness talks about how the 'Old Slann' (the Old Ones nowadays) travelled between worlds and set up gateways on each world they visited, then describes how they collapsed on the fantasy battle world creating links to warpspace. The text even ends describing how the Imperium of Man is also assailed, so it was clearly in the same universe in the lore at the time.
The old 40k art had no right to go so hard, but I'm glad it did.
Surely ahead of its time.
@user-nk7cy9wb2fassblasted much? Today's art is aptly described by what you think art of the past was.
@@secretname2670Modern 40K art looks like generic, concept artist portfolio shit
40k art going too hard is why you probably don't know battletech
Weird thing to say
The tone of incredulity in this video surprises me. I mean, even today, it's a game with Space Knights, the Space Empire, Space Elves, Space Undead, Space Orks, and, yes, Space Dwarves (a race of short, doughty miners with very Nordic naming conventions? Still dwarves).
Can I get a rock and stone?
@@KwadDamyj I don't know ? Can you ? I only have +cat-tallow biscuits+
I don't think he realises most retro british scifi was sort of silly
ROCK AND STONE
Yeah, things are very much the same if you oversimplify and disregard everything that sets them apart.
You know, Horus Heresy takes up too much oxygen in the fandom and lore these days. Bring back focus on the Badab War and Age Of Apostasy. Return to tradition.
I do hope we get books on those events and the scouring
I’m still waiting for a book series on the Badab War. Seriously BL need some books focusing on the massive span of time between the HH and “Modern” 40k.
Sure we have The Beast Arises series but…I mean come on
@@parkermaisterra8532 agreed, right now the timeline of the Imperium feels both too front loaded and too back loaded. Hell, I'd like a shorter series about the First War Of Armageddon. A lot of important figures in the current era were around for that.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary honestly, Vraks is another one for me. The FW campaign books fleshed that one out a lot and it would be cool for some fiction about it.
Yeah by this point just stretching the HH thinly is showing. There's several books adding zero to the overall plot that just exist to exist.
Speaking of goofy Space Marines: Back in the era of Space Hulk 1st ed (I think just before WH40K 2nd ed) there was an article in Dragon magazine for a Space Hulk campaign in which your marines wore normal beaky armor and carried a boom box because their objective was to fight their way into a space hulk to literally dance in face of humanity's enemies and terminator armor is too bulky to dance properly.
Man, that's sounds like it'd be some goofy fandom Chapter lore nowadays.
Any idea what Dragon issue that was in?
April 1994 issue 204 of TSRs Dragon Magazine
@@Shoutatclouds Haha, omg, yes. I hadn't read that for 30 years, but found the archived pdf: The Space Marine Recreator Squad
" In short, the Recreators enter Genestealer Space Hulks and dance, just to prove they can. A squad broadcasts to Space Marine chapters throughout the Imperium demonstrates its courageous triumphs over the enemy."
"The Recreators' special armor, customized by the Imperium's Adeptus Mechanicus, gives the waist flexibility they need to perform their lumbering but strangely majestic dances."
We have Noise Marines now, why not give us Dance Marines?
NGL the idea of Chaos Cultist Genestealers sounds absolutely incredible. Like imagine an Aberrant who worships Khorne and got blessed- it’d be ridiculous
God the imperium would be fucked
Game over man, game over!
Chaos was very random on the early editions, lots of charts.
So you could have say a Patriarch possessed by a Daemon but you could roll a Bloodthirster or a Nurgling.
@@101Mant basically pre demon Fulgrim or OG Angron.
There are still chaos genestealer cults in the lore
I don’t know who this Dreadanon fella is but he sounds handsome AND successful
HEY KARK FOR BRAINS
I CATO SICARIUS FULLY AGREE
So true!
I don’t know who this DreadAnon guy is. that’s it.
You said it pal, no 🧢 about that
Hi. Complete Eldar simp stuck in the 80's and former GW employee here.
I have a few notes on this video (as I happen to be going through the 1st edition book anyway)
1. Sisters of battle are in the Rogue Trader. Or rather Adepta Sororitas. Page 269
2. Space marines, if anything have gotten FAR more weird since "1980s commandos in sci fi powered armour"
Now we have Space vampires with wings?
3. The Eldar were glorious; they were simply better, more expensive, etc.
4. The most important bit is how fair things were, because there was ONE wargear list, one Psionics list, etc.
5. Any and everyone could be in a chaos band, but there were no 'keywords'. there REALLY should be Chaos Everyone now.
6. Rogue Trader was not an RPG
7. ZOATS!!!! (Still in my Corsairs army)
Some things you may have missed:
a. Jokaero
b. Flora and fauna (Gyrinx, Catachan Dev.....everything, etc)
c. off board support weapons
d. ROBOTS (you had to write a flowchart program for them. they got their own phase.
e. Psicannons were tiny pistols with bullets coated in emperor excrement.
f. Everyone had dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts were what we might call Invictor warsuits' today.
g. Mentor Legion.
If only we still had this kind of cultured, erudite view on the Eldar nowadays.
Thank you! The mention of keywords struck me as bs too.
You really hit the nail on the head - I'd also add the following things missed -
a. Vortex grenades
b. plasma grenades
c. conversion beamers
d. power fields on dreadnoughts and robots
e. didn't dreadnoughts have jump packs back in the day?
f. The game board sized vehicles you could use as a map
g. Flight packs!
h. All the ork bionics
h. Warp storms worked almost the other way around: the disturbances kept dangerous Warp creatures _away_ in the same way that birds will fly away from a tornado. The Eye of Terror was actually the safest place in the galaxy from malevolent Warp entitites, it was just impossible to use Warp travel inside it because of the storms.
excuse me? what was that in letter e about emperor excrement?
do i even want to know... jesus christ man old warhammer is one hell of a drug
Personally I think we need more books on inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau, Imagine the adventures he’s been on.
Does your squig bite?
no
SCHNARLGNASHCHEWRIPGARRGH
I thought you said your squig does not bite?
That is not my squig.
@@throwback19841 me and my dad repeat that joke an awful lot
Honestly, 38,000 years in the future and all those names are derived from the myths of old. It's basically like being named Gilgamesh or Hercules. Hell, we have kids now who were named Dovahkiin by their parents, why couldn't this dude's parents just really do him like that and name him after their favorite ancient movies?
Make him team up with Ciaphas Cain and watch our favorite Commissar get baffled by the First Inquisitor's sheer weirdness. 😂
@@zogwort1522 Oh, now I'm _very_ disappointed. ;/
Make the marines malevolent act like 1st ed marines instead of just being boring evil
Yeah that would be cooler
@jeffbogard8794they kill civilians for no real reason?
@jeffbogard8794they have malevolent in their name what do you mean that they arent evik
@@chaoticantifreezeehhh kinda, it’s more like they view civilians as resources to be expended in war (letting a bunch of Orks rampage a refugee camp so they can have the Orks in one spot to blow them all up with artillery) still fucking evil tho
@@bingusmingus2937 Why do Salamanders, Lamenters, and Imperial Fists even allow the Marines Malevolent to keep going? I feel like Vulkan would absolutely wreck their primarch if they had one.
I would love to see Zoats allied with Tau, especially Kroot. A Zoat packing weapons normally found on a crisis suit would be awesome.
A faction of mercenaries comprising of all the whacky aliens: Slann, zoats, kroot, ur-ghuls and swarms of angry ptera-squrrels.
@@marasmusine Slaan are the old ones.
Considering the Tau's colony ships and scouting ships are travelling father then ever before the Tau are looking for any good possible colony worlds even in the remote ends of space, it's probably not long before the Tau stumble onto some remote worlds with small populations of Zoats on them...
@@heitorpedrodegodoi5646
Originally in 40k they were the old ones but then they got retconned to just be a servant race of the Old Ones.
Like in the modern day 40k continuity the Slann still exist, they just got rid of most of their technology and live simple lives on fringe worlds (or at least they did before the Great Rift was formed.)
Basically the Guardians of the Galaxy faction!
I kinda love the idea that space marines being these "stoic warrior monks" is propaganda and that in reality they're just these knuckle dragging, beer-chugging fratboy asshole space cops
Just has that grimark satire edge that is slowly being sanded away from the setting so it can be more "heroic"
What if all of this is the actual truth, and the 'lore' we know is all just exaggerated Imperium propaganda? 😆
Just look at the Space Wolves. .. and I don't think the White Scars are far behind.
its absolutely possible there's a successor chapter somewhere that is just like this. ESPECIALLY if they're rolled in with the local guard or pdf. Is it standard, hell no, is it totally possible and almost likely at least somewhere? absolutely.
someone should just write that, astartes trained and raised right along guard, who are just cigar smoking, booze pounding, mega bro's.
lol. This is now canon.
This was the actual canon of 3rd, basically. So much of the lore we know is/was meant to be exaggerated imperium propaganda. This was part of the whole satire element of 40K. In fact, the designers have pretty much stated outright that in early 40K the intent was the emperor is meant to be secretly straight up dead. There's lots of hints of this in the earlier lore, references to the golden throne breaking down, there's a pretty strong undercurrent that the general superstitions of the imperium are just that. There was an edge of cynicism that was meant to strongly contrast the future envisioned by star trek specifically. Star Trek is basically optimistic, egalitarian, scientific. 40K is pessimistic, hierarchical, superstitious. If you can find the book "heavenfall" for the spin off game inquisitor and read through the lore in there, it gives more background than is typical of lore books at the time, and it makes clear that, for instance, a bunch of Space Marines are brought in the put down a revolt (a revolt that begins because imperial mismanagement and climate change is killing and starving what was once a verdant paradise), they do this by killing half the planet's population, and it doesn't actually make anything better on the planet, but after the marines leave the remaining population is made by imperial priests to worship the marines as their saviors.
The 1st edition Astartes were cops. Never forget that Warhammer 40k started as a Punk critique.
In that one early picture they weren't even any taller than the punk they were arresting. Doesn't even look like powered armor either, just riot gear.
GW is still very punk and underground now, right? …right?
And then GW made money
I had a rhino with police lights on it. That was fun
ASAB -all spacemarines are bastards
I remember hearing how in Rogue Trader the Genestealers were actually a completely separate race to the Tyranids for a bit before Second Addition
Yes, they were a parasitic race from the moon of Ymgarl, and the native "base" form had a leech-like head and a long tail. Eventually these "Ymgarl Genestealers" were retconned as an aberrant offshoot of the Genestealer genus.
@@Grevnorin fact the leech ones were retconned into a *subtype* of ymgarl genestealers
Tyranids didn t exist as a faction back then.
Yeah, both were just another type of alien monster the players might encounter, the way a D&D player might encounter a bug bear or a displacer beast.
@@leonardovegaolmedo5483They did, just not as we know them now
Honestly, I still recommend Ian Watson's 40k book, because despite some of the gross stuff, they give you that sort of "First Time Experience" akin to watching Apocalypse Now, for the first time. You are descending into this demented world, full of horrors, following demented characters who can only partially comprehend the world around them, being warped by it, both mentally and physically. There's this quite existential, psychedelic horror atmosphere to them.
Moreover, Watson made W40k WORK. Like think about it, at the time w40k was, as of yet, a shapeless mass of ideas snatched together from Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers, Elric Of Melnibone, Aliens, DnD, Dune, Lovecraft and probably more. Then, they gave that bag of clustefuck to a writer who drops Acid like it's gummy bear - and yet, it somehow worked.
(P.S: I, for one, do wish that GW would bring back the 80's metal vibe, even if only in terms of aesthetics.)
Good old biff
I agree. Modern day 40K is too serious. I miss the over the top 2000 AD vibe 40K used to have.
@@bucknasty69same, I miss the satire
@@matthewsmith2979Plus there’s a limit on how serious you can take 40K when everything looks like 40K
@@dajokahbaby1506 very true
"1st Edition Lore Was GLORIOUS" - fixed that for you.
The recipe for old 40k was: 1 part space. 1 part fantasy. 1 part post apocalypse, like Road Warrior. Add a dash of satire. Add a teaspoon of spoof. Bake around a game table with lots of laughs. Serve garnished with mohawks and bright colors. For dessert, be - perhaps - surprised it takes off with the fans and needs years of development to become an entirely different dish.
I think Chaos Eldar could actually return (ie the original Crone World people serving any of the Chaos gods except for maaaybe Slannesh).
Ohhhh maybe! That could be cool
Wouldn't Drukari be classified as Chaos Eldar of Slannesh?
Extreme emotional highs: ✅
Debauchery: ✅
Masters of t0rture: ✅
Fast and nimble: ✅
Devouted to pleasing Slannesh:* ✅
*Because otherwise they would die
Slaanesh would make the most sense to me actually, they worship Slaanesh in exchange for it not eating their souls
There might be an eldar cult that worships slaanesh already, it's been briefly hinted at a couple of times
I want to see the look on an astartes' face when they see a Khornate Banshee or a Khornate Striking Scorpion.
A half-Eldar sounds hilarious when you think of how their parents would have viewed one another in the current setting.
Other old school 40k things:
1. Eldar used lasguns rather than shuriken catapults as their basic weapon. Space marines could use shuriken catapults if they wanted, Orks had boltguns, and plasma cannons.
2. Tyranids could deploy "mind slaves" which were enslaved units from other races, thus you could use Orks, or Chaos Space Marines in a Tyranid army.
3. Space Marines had jetbikes.
4. The Imperial Guard used Ork mercenaries, typically Blood Axes, who would in turn mimic imperial guard uniforms, armour and equipment.
5. Blood Axes also used Rhinos rather than Battlewagons as their transport vehicle in Epic Space Marine.
6. Ork wierdboyz were terrified of combat because the waaagh energy was dangerous and caused them signifcant pain, they had to be escorted into battle by "Minderz" who would keep the wierdboy in the fight and occasionally aim him like a canon at the enemy, if all the minderz were slain the wierdboy would run off.
Imperial guard also had jetbikes. It was a simpler time.
Speaking of metal, warhammer editions in lore, tone and style literally are like the discographies of most 80's and 90's metal bands;
- they peak with the debut, radiating with youthful passion and originality
- they slowly refine their style with the two followups
- get more serious and professional by finding their niche in any given subgenre
- do some experimental shit that pisses all their fans off
- and eventually they fail spectacularly in trying to get old fans back with a poor attempt at replicating their original style but infused with nu, core or power metal elements to also impress the zoomers, turning it into a complete clusterfuck that somehow still takes off
Warhammer is metal af indeed
Hell, Bolt Thrower named themselves after bolters, and made a whole album about Chaos Space Marines (Realms of Chaos), it doesn’t get any more metal than that!
@@bucknasty69 that fuckin' metal as FUCK dude
The Exodites were in Rogue Trader Eldar Codex. I'd like them back
YES PLS
Seconded
Honestly I miss the level of detail and freedom of the old edition. The fact that you learn what certain peoples rations are like and you can have someone in your army pick up an ork gun just makes the world feel more lived in to me. Nowadays every faction has some rigid lore about how they wouldn’t even touch another’s weapons but it just makes each faction feel like it’s in its own universe completely separate from the others
Tau 8ed codex has a whole page about their language and names. Tau 9ed codex is a disappointment. They had a high level of detail up until recently, but detail doesn't make money.
Don't Orks salvage enemy weapons all the time?
yes in lore but how often do you see it on the tabletop? During the older editions the lore and gameplay seperation was non existent. So yeah a space marine or an ork could field an eldar shuriken rifle. If the the player could field the points. @@ElishaFollet
@@ElishaFollet yea they love looting but they don't like the other factions weapons cuz almost every other faction's weapons are standardized
Part of that came from (at least on the model side) the fact that they didn't have any. The company couldn't make unique things for every army, which is why everyone have bolters and Rhinos. But I think the other change is how toyetic 40k has gotten over the years. Everyone started getting their own wargear in 3rd editon, but this has gone absolutely nuts in recent editions. Entire units existed because their bolter was different from every other bolter, and that happened because GW needed more things to sell. I'm doing a back-conversion to 2nd edition, and it's so refreshing to write "X is just a power axe," or "this thing is a bolter."
Space Marines now: The emperor protects, also, I gotta get my armor blessed by techpriests before battle so that I won't die (hopefully).
Space Marines then: Hold on, I gotta rub the blood of the elderly onto my bolter so that I won't miss a shot and baby feces onto my visors so that I can see better.
They're still like that now, GW just doesn't show it
@@valance10 Cowards 😡
@@johnnobody3078 Yeah the franchise has been really sanitised since the primaris reveal.
@@valance10Trazyn and Orikan killed a whole planet by accident. I'd say that is still pretty grimdark
Your forgot to mention some interesting stuff about the Orks, like the Khornate ork boys that were seen as teenargers in aphase and ork genestealer cults with severals arms. It's very important to remember about the genestealers that they were not Tyranids yet, they were their own race from the moons of Ymgarl, wich is interesting
You're talking about the ork stormboyz - they were not necessarily followers of Khorne, but you could also have 'stormboyz of khorne' in your army lists. There were also ork mutants and ork/genestealer hyrbid models (which were two different things)
I love how every faction in rogue trader got to use rhinos and landraiders because landraiders are fucking cool
In the companion/compendium/white dwarfs harlequins could bring looted vehicles like orcs…. Except you had to role at the beginning of the turn to see if it broke down…. Literally a clown car… they were a circus sub faction of Eldar before the aspect warriors became a thing.
Don't forget there was some really cool stuff like vampires being warp creatures and lots of flora and fauna for death worlds. I miss these aspects of 40K.
The goofy vibe and art style speak to my inner 80s kid, love it. In moderation it could offset the grimdark and bring more people into the lore.
Caiphas Cain, ect.
Dude. I read some of the Caiphus Cain books. Man was so unlucky that he was lucky.
The Grimdark is already going away though.
Hah, yeah man. Highly recommend all his stories - it gets even better.
Keep the garbage California modernity out off 40k at all costs. Striking that gallows humor balance with the classic gut wrenching grimdark go authentically and naturally together.
Remember that warhammer young adult bs run they tried? Brilliant marketing... ah hahah.
@bravoromeo9060 No matter what way you cut the setting just isn't made for kids. I gotta read the books someday, either audible or rent a copy.
The grim, depressing, and utterly bleak hopelessness of Rogue Trader got to me as a teenager on an existential level - that I would fade before I was noticed, and replaced with newer, brighter lights, and that the future held nothing more than a greater grinding misery than the present, got under my skin in a way that body horror or gore of the later editions has never managed.
The "grimdark" that came later has always felt somewhat like catnip for edgy teenage boys.
I miss the sheer lunacy of the early editions. It's like GW forgot that Warhammer is supposed to be fun. They need to embrace a bit of the silliness, sometimes let things be grimderp for the sake of being grimderp.
What 40K needs is its own variant of Blood Bowl. Maybe make a Warhammer 40,000 pro-wrestling board game.
FR. why did they have to take the comedic relief out of every faction but the orks. i like old fantasy lore being so silly (the changeling whoopie cushioning khorne with a nurgling is canon lore) and fantasy really mixed the darkness with the absolute absurdity of the setting quite well so i never felt it was completely serious.
@@sovietunion7643 Urist embodies pure Warhammer
I came up with a lore idea for a 40k Blood Bowl years ago that I think fits will. A radical Inquisitor comes across a Dark Eldar fighting arena and thinks that's just fine. He works with the Dark Eldar to codify the rules, ultimately creating a game that looks suspiciously like space football. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only FOOTBAAAAAAAALL!
IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FORTY SECOND MILLENNIUM THERE IS ONLY SPORTS!!
"Beastmen" as sanctioned abhumans fighting for the Imperium 100% needs to come back.
Fucking yes, please! Necromunda and other cameos aren't enough, I need my mutie legion back! Muties for da emprah!
Unfortunately the 8th edition rulebook basically says that's not going to happen. The Fellgor killteam needs to be retconned, though.
yes, inquisitor, this one right here
Totally agree
They aren’t a humans so they can’t be part of the imperial army?
Oh, and one thing: nowadays we know it as "the Rogue Trader era", but back then nobody called it Rogue Trader. It was simply Warhammer 40.000.
Nercron raiders came out 2nd ed. Scarabs could eat armour on your tanks and there was a chance your weapons would malfunction near any necrons
Probably tied to the Void Dragon if I had to guess 😅
also the first full codex was 3rd edition
@@lucasstr5653 Void Dragon didn't exist. It was just Necrons being Necrons.
Nope, Necrons were definitely 3rd edition.
@@rrwholloway they definitely are 2nd ed. I had the white dwarf where you got a free warrior when they came out. If you Google necron raiders 2nd ed you will see some in 2nd ed blisters etc
Ok I agree, with a few notes. Firstly, 1st and 2nd were grimdark as hell. Despite the odd humor present sometimes. Yeah, 1st edition was also pretty weird. But don't mistake a bright paint pallette for something it's not. Look at some Heavy Metal magazine from the era. For the length of the video, this was a pretty good summary. Forgot to mention Chaos Androids which looked like Necrons. Also, in 1st edition, you could play Ork mercenaries, rogue Space Marines that weren't necessarily Chaos, Eldar pirates and corsairs and mercenaries, and Slaan, who in lore at that time WERE the Old Ones. Also the Eye of Terror was smaller. And the original Legions were different. Everybody had way fewer vehicles because the models didn't exist, and GW wasn't set up to be able to make a bunch of different plastic kits easily. The standard armor you are referring to is Mk VI armor, which everybody should know. Tyranids actually were ALWAYS an extragalactic threat, you were just only given snippets of lore. Canonically, Zoats were diplomats of some of the early hive fleets. Also you could encounter free zoats that presumably were refugees. While the Horus Heresy was barely a footnote at first, it became more of a big deal when they released the original Adeptus Titanicus. I miss Squats, they were cool. They had some lore. I think they actually got more lore in the Space Marine 2nd edition (epic) supplement Ork & Squat Warlords than they did in 40k, although I'm sure there were several White Dwarf articles. I'm not completely familiar with the Leagues of Votann lore, but it seems to be written so that these are the survivors from when the Squat homeworlds got overrun by Tyranids. Maybe that was just marketing, though. I didn't catch at what point the Squats were integrated. Last I knew they were allied with the Imperium. I'm sure it's there, I just don't remember having read it. I didn't really see a lot of lore updates in 3rd other than the introduction of Dark Eldar. Necrons came in at the end of 2nd. 2nd was almost a reboot, though. Rules-wise it was a clean-up of all the evolutions of 1st edition rules, with a lot of streamlining applied. I still like 2nd edition best out of all of them, although 8th comes in a close second. And Lord knows there are problems with both of those. Oh! And on Orks, which also ties in to Tyranids, there was a now apocryphal story (the Space Marine novel is also no longer canin, but you knew that), wherein an Imperial probe sent beyond the galactic rim detects some stuff that might be Tyranids, and much to the horror of the tech-priests, Ork signals from every nearby galaxy (which in terms of galaxies is a looooong distance, I'm sure). The implication everything outside the Milky Way is either Tyranids or Orks. Every nearby galaxy is dominated by Orks unless it's be eaten by Tyranids. I guess the Old Ones spread the Orks to a bunch of places.
Everywhere being just Orks is pretty funny. I like the idea that the implied entities the Nids are running from are just more Orks.
So as someone who got Rogue Trader at its release event can I just say you did a great job. I do feel sometimes some of the rough and ready feel of early 40k has been lost over the years. But it's still fun.
Not sure i agree. Tired returning to 40k in covid.
Found the rules bland, the lore even more muddled and the prices...
Not only did everyone get bolters, they also could get shuriken rifles, even space marines. And there were humans that painted themselves green and joined an ork warband. And the orks were happy to see them.
Equipment in RT was limited by tech level not race. So a fast play style was not limited to eldar
Squats on powerboards and marines on jet bikes were insane.
You need to read RT alongside the compendium and companion to really understand it.
surfing squats!?
@kudosbudo yep - flying surfing squats :-)
Half Eldar bout to be coming back when Grandpa Smurf knocks up Space Galadriel
I love how we all as a fandom have tacitly but not officially acknowledged that Yvraine and Gorillaman are banging
You know that just because a man and a woman have a strong friendship, it doesn’t mean they have sex.
@nikogarcia201 shut
my headcannon is that the drawrves/squats from 1st edition left the Emperium and joined a private mining corporation on some distant unexplored sector of the 40k galaxy.
here they kill bugs, mine all day, and drink beer.
So you mean the game Deep Rock Galactic.
@@mistermcking8445 You got the joke.
One important aspect of the early 40K lore that frequently gets overlooked: there wasn't an existential threat to the Imperium of Man. In the Rogue Trader book, Tyranids were just another race, not a locust swarm poised to devour the entire galaxy. Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar weren't a thing. There were no Traitor Legions trying to destroy the Imperium from the Eye of Terror either (not until Adeptus Titanicus): when demon-like Warp entities got summoned into realspace, their first priority was to try and get _back_ to the Warp because they didn't like it here. Orks were mere barbarians, and the chief reason they were all over the galaxy was that the Imperium wasn't competent enough to keep them in check. IG commissars looked like the Gestapo, not like Napoleonic hussars, and space marines were basically Sardaukar. Everything about the lore made it clear that Imperial propaganda was bullshit, that the Imperium was its own worst enemy and that literally any other political system would have been more effective at protecting mankind from external threats.
Of course, when it became clear that WH40K was evolving into a wargame focused on pitched battles between armies, other races had to be beefed up so they could compete with the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines on the tabletop. But taking that route meant validating the Imperium as the "defenders of mankind" because suddenly there _really_ were other factions that could swallow up the galaxy if the forces of the Imperium weren't there to stop them, and for me that weakened the central element of the lore. I enjoy current WH40K, but I do miss the time when the real reason the galaxy was "grim and dark" was not that there were ugly monsters out there, but that the people who were supposed to protect you from those monsters were in fact The Fucking Worst.
You make some really good points.
One of the things I like most about 40k is some of the darkly humorous satirical lore stories about how many rich nobles/highborn in 40k are selfish psychopathic weirdos who spend way too much time plotting against each other, unintentionally messing things up for other people through their arrogant incompetence and/or doing dumb heinous $h1+ instead of properly doing their appointed jobs of being the royalty overseeing governments or just peacefully enjoying their lives of wealth and privilege.
It's like the setting is making fun of itself.
At first glance the setting makes it seem like it's implying that a human galactic empire run by the nobility might actually be a good idea. However the setting then ruthlessly parodies itself and skewers thr idea of the nobility ruling a galaxy by showing that that kind of government would only possibly work out okay if it was run by benign superhumans like the Emperor or one of the Loyalist Primarchs instead of just flawed normal human beings who additionally have messed up views about life due to their inherited wealth and privilege.
(Some examples are Herman von Straub, Goge Vandire, Sepheris Secundus, how horribly inefficiently run Terra is, how many Planetary Governors are just selfish psychopathic obese oafs, Duke Severus XIII and the Severan Dominate, the Scintillian Fusiliers, the Ventrillian Nobles and all the lore from about what
$h1++y people Lord Gerontius Helmawr and most of the other nobles of Necromunda are like as well as how terrrible Necromunda is in general.)
Also I kind of wish there was like 2 lines of warhammer 40k lore like maybe "warhamme40k grimdark" for the modern day lore and like "Warhammwr 40k cartoony" or "warhammer 40k retro" for the more classic style lore.
I liked the old narrative battle generator in the back of the RT book, especially the one involving an administrative error where 2 identical forces are sent to a planet to fight shapeshifting aliens but end up having to slaughter each other instead!
@@alfredpotts6136 Why did they have to slaughter each other?
@@SurprisinglyDeep It's not so much that they "had to" but that they each assumed that the _other_ contingent was the shapeshifting enemy. Because neither had been notified of the other's presence.
@@ArkadiBolschek
Oh I see.
Remember the good old days when the Head Librarian of the Ultramarines was a Half Eldar Space Marine Psyker?
Rouge trader is really something. I wish 40k still had some of these goofy things still in current setting like the genestealer limos it made 40k feel a little more like a setting that was lived in.
You missed mutants. They got their own section in the original rulebook. You can make some fun things with those tables.
I love the feel of old editions, where they are much closer to playing an rpg with a squad of guys, rather than a single character. The old scenarios even used to include a game master that would have secret knowledge and spring surprises on the players, or play a third faction interfering with whatever the game objective was.
That's pretty much a description of how me and my family play it, but we use rules based off of Kill Team, with minor changes.
Space Marine senior: You wanna join the Space Marines? YOU GOTTA EAT DA POO POO!
I love the Heavy Metal/Ralph Bakshi era of Sci Fi, and as much as I love what Warhammer is today (for the most part), I do wish that more was being made in that style
SAME
God DAMN those OG marines look so cool. Corvus Pattern is my favorite armor in the series so it’s great seeing the beaks
Here's how I make Chaos Androids coexist with Necrons in my Warhammer 40k universe: making former Men of Iron that used as physical bodies for warp entities
As well making both Rainbow Warriors and Valedictors 2nd and 11th legions respectively
I really like the og space marine design the visors are so cool and I've always liked the little horus heresy shoulder balls
Hot take, but i sorta like the technobarbarian knuckledragger style the old sm had more than modern sm
Also, i think you raise a good point with the fast paced playstyle eldar have, because its made me realize that part of the dominance of space marines in general games until now, because sm can play basically any way a player could want.
I feel like you can really see meat of where Warhammer came from when you see theae old editions, other than being more like it's Fantasy counterpart but... in space, you can also see that the people writing it were the same people who worked in 2000 AD.
7:30, ah I see you are a man of culture fellow Gav Thorpe hater.
Not to be pedantic but i believe the Tau were introduced in 2001, 3rd edition. I remember Sangunius' finest ripping through such xenos scum.
Thank you! Oh my God that was bugging me.
Definitely 3rd, since I stopped playing in around 1998 and definitely remember them being in white dwarf
3.5 technically
@@murphy7801 not technically, since there technically is no 3.5.
W40K came out of the very excellent lefty artistic reaction to Thatcherism. Judge Dredd, the RPG paranoia, many, many works of scifi were warning us against top-down conformity and the rising plutocratic class. The snark of these works remains inspirational to this day.
Funny how the left became the very thing they criticized.
4:04 In early warhammer you really saw it was supposed to be a post-post-post apocalypse. Space Marines did actually degenerate from the heresy and while they were monstrus and grimdark they were the best what humanity had. They are portrayed way too heroically now.
6:33 You say it's silly I say they really tried to sell the post-apocalypse vibe. A lot of early 40k lore weirdly echos stuff from African wars. The sisters of battle and why van Dyke created them clearly mimic African Presidentators with their units of harem bodyguards where they have hundrets if armed wife bodyguards.
Or the names of Afrian warlords often being silly like General Buttnaked or Rambo Schwarzengger Terminator.
Or my favorite duo: General Mosquito and General Mosquito Spray
6:33 The Eldar had harem armies?
i knew about general butt naked but was there really a guy who nickamed himself Rambo Schwarzengger Terminator?
4:31 there were no legions back then is why. The Heresy became the big thing after the Realm of Chaos books came out.
This, to me, is real Warhammer.
OGhammer
As a more recent 40K fan, I can't say that I am a huge fan of the goofy, 80s metal aesthetic or a lot of the heavy fantasy-inspirations. I happen to like grim dark and I prefer my comedy more understated. I like gothic horror, but have always been more lukewarm towards high fantasy. That being said, I found this video fascinating! It is always really interesting to see how an idea evolves over time. Even if the roots aren't my cuppa, I can fully appreciate why people enjoyed it.
Yeah more Warhammer to listen to while working ❤
MY JOB HERE IS DONE
Older orks had a lot of fun things going on-orks fallen to chaos, genestealer-ork hybrids, and human mercs are some of my favorites. My blood axes today have some humie mercs as a nod to the older stuff.
Rogue Trader era is the best Warhammer.
The medieval fantasy look mixed with guns is what got me into the games. I liked the old rogue trader look an theme. I like the lore etc now as well, but it doesnt have the same feel to it.
The Marine units were based on infantry units of the day and they all had jump packs. Think Robert A. Heinlein's book Starship troopers where everything was done in a form of power armour ""On the bounce" . They even had Field Police (MP's) and the Legion of the Dammed was a penal legion for Marines
The Imperial Guard was more expendable but backed by numbers and Penal Legions (Suicide Bombers) and I can understand why they disappeared after Conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. This is more grim dark for those of us who lived this than anything GW can imagine as the "Penal Legions" were often kids who should have been playing the game not taking part.
In all, I loved this version and the RPG elements allowed us to play up to the point of battle, when the tabletop was hastily arranged into a battle ground. Unfortunately, I lost all my books and mini's in a house fire so when my son's became interested I wanted to show them how I used to play but couldn't remember the rules.
The sh*t eating was a parody of Rugby Lad culture and the notorious inituation ceremonies of Rugby teams at University.
3:35 CURSE YOU IAN WATSON
Definitely a dark chapter in 40k
I saw this comment right as I heard his name said
Ian Watson was insane with a lot of his stories, I still remember the inquisitor story covered by Alfabusa
The wackiest edition. Basically a marine from starcraft making a sci fi setting while high
I do miss some wackier elements ngl
Well starcraft marines are based off space marines
I miss some of the goofy stuff, but I also love Orks as they are currently.
A lot of the ideas where half baked and got refined for what we have now. I do miss the Trikes that the Squats used to have, and we have more updated version with the Pioneers. The Beaky helmets have always been a favorite of mine seeing the old art from my cousins playing Fantasy and showing me the old White Dwarf books they had.
The Necrons were actually introduced towards the end of second edition, just they just didn't get a full army treatment until 3rd
Yep and Tau was 3rd edition not 4th. Hell, I remember seeing a few boxes of tau being sold, surprisingly, in the Wizards of the Coast store.
And they were more along the lines of The Terminator in space initially, with absolutely no ancient Egyptian/ Warhammer Fantasy Undead stuff going on.
Also the gauss flayers were pointy. I have one of the original models they released as a free item on the front of the White Dwarf magazine.
@@DGneoseeker1 they were pretty Egyptian themed with the symbols, scarabs and the lords having fancy headdresses
@@wolf40k Back as far as I'm talking about there were no lords. They were like prototype necrons. Warriors existed. I don't think scarabs showed up until later.
Mind you this was basically White Dwarf content ONLY. They didn't get a rule book until later which is when I assume we got lords and scarabs etc.
I might be remembering incorrectly about the scarabs.
I do wish GW would bring back some of the concepts from 1st & 2nd edition. There's a lot of charm in those editions that has been lost throughout the years.
diplomatic orks would have been cool. have roving ork traders or mercenary groups looking for a good fight (and some money for drinking), really make the orks feel closer to a real "chaotic neutral" faction that is really just down with anything that is fun and violent, or work that allows them to buy things that bring fun and violence.
I could see chaos eldar gods other than Slan. Like a bunch of angry elders boys following Korne and getting their souls protected.
They should create a spin-off series set in the whacky 1st edition universe, comics or something. I'd buy that stuff.
tbh I reckon it'd end up swampin' the newer stuff if they did in a Runescape style scenario so they're afraid to do it.
Man, the Rogue Trader/early 40k stuff was fun. I miss the days when things weren't so serious & the setting was a dark parody of sci-fi in general. The miniature rules & setting was such that you could take any miniature army from any time period & put them on the table. I also love the biker Space Dwarves ie Squats.
The Realm of Chaos books were the best. Which you can create random warbands. Which included the real offspring and descendants of the Emperor. They were also the first place the chaos legions and Grey Knights were introduced.
I miss the levels of crazy of 1st edition stuff. Brings me back to my younger days dropping by hobby/comic book store and seeing these on shelves.
I think I prefer the wacky 40k over grimdark. I loved getting into 40k but I'm a little bit tired of the grim dark setting.
Speaking as a Long Fang I think you've blended some first and second edition lore together here. Stuff like the Age of Apostasy, the Sisters of Battle as we know them and Abaddon weren't first edition. Rogue trader can best be defined by the rulebook, Chapter Approved, the White Dwarf Compendium and two Realm of Chaos books maybe with some Warhammer Siege thrown in. Towards the end of the edition we started to see more on the Heresy but that was mostly built upon via Adeptus Titanicus, then Space Marine which focused on the Scouring then the Realm of Chaos books building further on this. I think RT is probably best divided into early, mid and late edition as a subject matter because unlike later editions it substantially evolved within the edition the closer it got to second edition via White Dwarf unlike all editions that were to follow. Stuff like the Badab War though wasn't as huge as people seem to think, it's more like one of those remember berry moments that people seem to think it was a bigger deal than it was probably due to later exposure of the Forgeworld books.
Most people don't know the environment when Rick and the guys hacked Rogue Trader together. The Slaanesh beasts are the Fendahline from the Doctor Who episode Image of the Fendahl. The Nurgle beast is the monster from the old film The Creeping Terror. Traders, pirates, muties are from various Warrior/2000AD comics like Judge Dredd. Chaos demons and lore are from various Michael Moorcock books such as Elric, Hawkmoon, etc. Space Marines, psi marines, and Tyranids are from Heinlein's Starship Troopers (nothing to do with the film of the same name). Genestealers are from the film Alien.... I'll edit if I remember any more.
I want to see Dorn eating a steaming pile and passing it to Russ.
I kind of miss the old lore of SM being unhinged roid lunatics on a fundemental level, their loyalty and humanity kept in check only by extensive indoctrination.
"What's wrong with that guy?"
"He stared too long into a 1st edition codex"
"FEMALE SPACE MARINES, CHAOS ELDAR EXIST, LEMAN RUSS WAS JUST A NORMAL GUY!"
"Nobody's ever been able to decipher the rambling"
you forgot Robute Guillimans BONES being all that is left of him...
I LOVE Oldhammer stuff. The vibe is what attracted me to the game in the first place.
Honestly this old stuff is grabbing my attention more and more instead of the grimslop that 40k is slowly turning into
Imma be brutally honest. I kinda prefer some of this older lore, it just strikes me as more fun and interesting.
I prefer older Squats I like their aesthetic and them just being Dwarfs in space. I'm not the biggest fan of the sleek Votann aesthetic I honestly thought they were Tau auxiliaries when they were first shown.
I like the older Eldar Lore were they are much more competent and mystic and I like the idea of Chaos Genestealers because what if a Genestealer eats a chaos mutant or infects a Chaos Cult first.
I honestly think this stuff has a place in modern 40k. Now imma not be blind and say its all good like the Poop eating or the silly Inquisitior or the Zoats but there are some concepts I just prefer over the modern setting.
Also Beakie armour with visors will always look badass. I wouldn't mind seeing Marines who are more thuggish alongside the more warrior monk style Marines.
The Marines Malevolent and Carcharadons are kind of thuggish.
Iv'e always preferred the more colourful Iron Maiden vibe of the 80s/90s stuff.
Dude, Squats are SO much cooler than LoV. A trike, 2 dwarves, a huge barrel of beer with a heavy machine gun mounted on it... SO SO much better than what we have now.
Agreed. The more GW move away from the oldschool, the more generic scifi it gets.
12:17 Paul Bonner's artwork is just wonderful. Full of action and character.
While the modern setting obviously has a lot more content and development, something about the original version's galaxy feels more alive I guess? As in it feels like the galaxy has a lot more weird stuff going on in it potential for bizzare minor factions showing up, there is a lot more unknown factors going on. I kind of wish the setting had more stuff like that, scale all of the big players back in scope a little bit to open gaps of space that no factions have really looked into in depth yet. I know some examples exist but I'd like to see more minor xeno's empires and breakaway human factions that the imperium hasn't gotten around to deal with for several centuries or even more remnants of pre imperium golden age human civilization. I think stuff like this helps sell that this is a vast galaxy mostly filled with rotten empires that struggling to hold on to what they claim, the Tau in concept are basically supposed to show that new civilizations are growing in the cracks but I think they should be far from the only one.
On another note, I really do not like what they have done with the Tyrannids, mostly at a plot and scale level, I have no issue with their concept or designs. The old Galaxy based version avoids the two main issues that I have with the tyrannids, they have no character and there is no real insight into how the hive mind actually thinks. Nerf the hive mind's ability to just create any lifeform the plot demands to make them more dangerous to nesscitate them capturing and enslaving more races to the hive mind like the Zoats to cover weaknesses they currently have. This gives them a reason to not just eat everything because some can be more valuable alive. This only expands the kind of creepy and gross alien horror the tyrranids are supposed to have while allowing them to expand or even "communicate" through other races they have turned into flesh puppets.
My second issue with the new tyrannids is the overwhelming extra galactic force they present, while this is grimdark it basically means the most likely outcome is that everyone will be overwhelmed eventually, meaning that in the long term nothing that happens really matters, at least scale them back to coming from only one direction. This also limits the potential of other extra galactic entities possibly showing up, stripping more mystery from the setting. I am personally a fan of the idea that a colony could have been sent outside of the galaxy before the collapse and they (or their AI successors) could possibly return and have diverged so far in the past 20000 years as to be virtually unrecognizeable as humans the imperium.
Xenomorph vs The Red Weed vs Undead Jetwashers is the likely endgame now. I knew there was a reason I always preferred Necromunda.
5:16 in fact it was so heavy metal they had bands like Bolt Thrower providing death metal soundtracks for Warhammer.
I had no idea NileRed was into 40k
That Goofy heavy metal vibe was what attracted me in the 90s
Personally Rogue Trader is what inspires many of my D&D games lol! I love goofy Sci-fi over fantasy.
My favorite thing about old warhammer is specifically that ork portrait with the one ork in the back of the crowd pressing the palm of his hand against the butt of his gun. I absolutely love that stupid little post hes doing and wish it was commonplace for orks trying to control recoil or something. Overall i just really liked the way orks looked back then.
Necrons were introduced in 2nd edition, actually.
But they didn't get a codex until 3rd edition.
Let's not forget literally drawing scarface as a space marine and sponsoring Death Metal band, Bolt Thrower
I am a weirdo grognard that prefers old squats than the new Votann, I just love dwarfs with motorbikes and sunglasses
We know that the real reason Squats were phased out is that they were so cool they made every other faction look bad.
All the inside jokes and the Rainbow Warriors (now Deathstrike)
Ian watson.
The follower of slaanesh.
HE WILL BE VINDICATED
@@livefromtheblacklibrary reddit already did it, about how sexy the new tyranid models look like for them.
Elaborate and very detailed desciptions of feats, Sex with Shapeshifter, being horny for Genestealers, poop eating ceremonies, killing cats, casually sneaking into the Imperial Palace and being initially ok with turning all of Humanity into a Hive-Mind.
The artwork is so amazing - I wish we could go back to oldhammer just for the art style
God I remembered being excited with the Necrons being introduced...