The "competitive 40k is the only kind of 40k" thing has always been weirdly prevalent. I recall one time some friends ran a pretty loose casual game to give me a try (basically a three way deathmatch), and we decided to use one of the standard game modes but ignore the deployment zone rules in order to fit three armies on one board. This other guy hanging out with us in the store, bless his heart, just couldn't wrap his head around it. "Wait, that's not how the deployment rules work." "We know, we're just house ruling it for this game." "No, but the rulebook says that you-" "Yes, we know this isn't how it's done in the rulebook, it's okay, we've all agreed to ignore this specific rule for this specific game." (Visible confusion)
That mindset is so baffling. I saw a guy online asking how to play a certain situation. He wanted to give a character a relic that replaces a chainsword, but the character was equipped with an astartes chainsword. This is a toy soldier game that's 99 percent dependent on dice rolling. I wouldn't be able to take it that serious if I tried.
For me, the one important part about matched/competitive is the point cost. They are always wonky, but the best metric for deciding how "fair" a game is. Beyond that, when playing with friends, fun is the rule nr 1. "hey, my tau pathfinder just killed a terminator in close combat, can I give him a better profile for the rest of the game cause he is obviously a badass?" "Sure".
Hi Ian, I am a dodgy old bloke in his sixties and not at all into playing 40k ( Tricorne hats and muskets are more my thing), however I do find the lore fascinating. I just wanted to drop you a quick note to say how much I enjoy your video's and to tell you what a great narrating/story telling voice you have. If you are unhappy in your present employment you should really consider a career in narrating audio books, I have listened to many of these and have to say your voice is much better than a lot of voice's that I have heard. Anyway as I said thanks very much for putting out some great video's, I would really like to send you a few quid but being a pensioner and yadda yadda moan groan etc. Anyway keep up the great work, all the best Rory.
I was a 5th Edition kid, but my first foray into 40k was a 3rd Edition rulebook given to me by a local wizard, I knew 3rd edition rules better than I do the current ruleset! I'd love to actually play a few games of 3rd edition
I'd recommend playing 3rd. with the Chapter Approved and various supplements/White Dwarf articles, also known as 3.5 Edition. There's some serious problems with the initial release of 3rd. Terminators don't have invulnerable saves. Rapid fire weapons are useless. Vanilla Orks and vanilla Space Marines are unplayable unless you go all-in on cheese (like six 5x man Tactical Squads with Lascannons, 3x Dreadnoughts, and 3x Predators cheese). Transports are goofy since rules for access and fire points were missing (Chimeras have 6 lasguns modeled for passengers to use....but you can't actually use them because it's not written anywhere 😂). Still prefer 4th. over 3rd. because of the rules changes to vehicles and the codices were balanced a bit more, along with the scoring used for missions.
In case anyone is wondering WHY they stopped listing author names on their books... just mention the name 'Matt Ward' in basically any hobby community and watch the ensuing firestorm.
@@MAST3RKAITO Basically he made a lot of really over the top and overpowered codexes (Necrons and Grey Knights), but also made a lot of silly fluff that was more about fitting his own headcannon than actually telling a story that made sense. But then because 40k nerds love to take their little toy soldiers far too seriously, people thought it'd be a good idea to send the guy a deluge of hate mail and death threats. This caused GW to stop putting names on books for the safety of their own staff.
3rd Edition player here, Dark Eldar from day 1 with my best mate at the time being obsessed with the Craftworld Eldar from the White Dwarf feature (although the yellow and blue cover art being confused for a LEGO magazine on the school bus annoyed him no end) Great video as ever Ian, interesting to get some context for the changes and editions that I wasn't actively playing
One of the things that never seems to get mentioned about old 40K is the introduction in 1st edition of the Battle Manual, (which streamlined a lot of the rules of 1st edition that were previously in supplements, like a first-draft proto-2nd edition) and Vehicle Manual (which was a completely bonkers vehicle rules update, with vehicle silhouettes and a giant transparent plastic crosshair template you positioned over them on the bit you wanted to hit). These were very much my era, and were (for me and my mates, anyway) a really huge deal.
I just made a comment about this, I should have read the other comments first! In retrospect the Battle Manual in particular seems like a dry run for 2nd edition. Ignoring the targetting templates and silhouettes (which were admittedly the main part of the supplement) the Vehicle Manual's rules are pretty similar to the 2nd edition's vehicle rules. The silhouette stuff probably got dropped because while it was OK to use in skirmishes involving a vehicle or two at most per side GW probably had their eye on making vehicles a much more important part of the game in 2nd edition and onwards, so a quicker system was needed.
I remember that transparent targeting thing. I remember seeing a similar thing in a tabletop RPG about a decade ago, something to do with the wild west called Aces & Eights
I started Playing in 1996. I felt that the change over to 3rd, was less Grim Dark. it was less about the Fluff of the game and more about the game play itself that lead to that feeling. The simpler game felt like you had urgency and dire consequences, it felt more like just a game
Agreed, I felt 3rd made everything very bland compared to how alive the setting felt in 2nd. Orks especially got it the worst with the importance of the clans being minimized for several editions
2nd may have been less balanced, but the games were like stories playing out while you played. Less models but more individual, wacky wargear and better unique characters. It was less armies fighting each other, more heroes and their small retinues clashing with each other.
@@stryke-jn3kv 3rd edition was more serious in tone than 2nd, made it feel more Grim Dark but also omitted a lot of the fluff from the first 2 editions that added to the wacky 2000 AD feel
Still got all the Battle for Macragge stuff when I was a wee lad, I repainted it all a few years back and most of it is still used! The crashed shuttle terrain is great terrain 👌
Going to have to argue against Finecast being equivalent to Forge World resin. FW kits have their issues, but Finecast is bad, brittle resin, and the moulds are tooled really badly, especially for the models that were originally in metal. The amount of shims between detailed parts is crazy. Working on some Eldar Rangers right now, which were originally (highly detailed) metal sculpts and there are times where I basically have to carve detail back in that the shims destroyed.
I feel like this was a subtle dig by Ian about how Forge World is shit and thus Finecast is still shit because it matches Forge World. Like one of the ways to spot if a model is actually from Forge World or is a recast is the recast will be higher quality 🤣😂
Ugh. Finecast. So many bubbles and bent pieces. FW is so hit or miss I don't bother with it. For the price I pay they should be getting rid of the release agent off the model and not have warped pieces to the point where the model is un-buildable.
Everybody forgets that Games Workshop had an audio/record division for a while... some bangers on there: Realm of Chaos by Bolt Thrower, and whatever the album by D-Rok was called... 😆😅🙃
Ah, beloved 3rd edition... Back in 1998 I started my journey into the hobby and while I haven't played a game in ages, maybe 7th or 8th edition, I still love the universe. Even done some cosplay.
The first White Dwarf on display in this video is the first one I ever bought, issue 116, from August 1989. Ah, the memories. 🙂 In some ways the shift from 1st to 2nd edition wasn't particularly sudden or abrupt. The game's rules were getting changed quite regularly via White Dwarf in its early days and prior to the release of 2nd edition the Battle Manual and the Vehicle Manual replaced almost all of the rules that were in the Rogue Trader rulebook and 2nd edition was clearly inspired by those books. Consolidating the chaotic collection of books, compilations and White Dwarf articles that comprised the 40k ruleset at the end of 1st edition into one big accessible box set was a major step forward though.
Reminds me a lot of the transition between Original D&D and 1e Basic/Advanced D&D. The designers were figuring out a whole new hobby as they went along, and throwing ideas in via supplements or magazine articles. Until a complete game (or games, in the case of Basic vs Advanced) solidified and all the supplemental material was included in the main books. Like, the original "three brown booklets" were revolutionary, sure, but they were barely functional rulesets. (The initial plan was to run combat off a completely different book, Chainmail, before a "Get You Buy" set of combat tables were added last minute as a concession to those who didn't own Chainmail). Certainly barely recognizable as D&D as we've come to know it.
I also got into 40k in 1989 (my first WD was 111, with the Squat army list), and when I told my mate (who was a big modeller) that I'd gone out and bought the rule book, his response was "Why? The only bit you need is the rule summary at the back, and I could have photocopied you that", and suggesting that I get White Dwarf for the army lists. The game we played felt way closer to rules in the Battle Manual than the RT book, and I was always annoyed that we never used the "RPG bit" at the back, because I liked the look of all that stuff.
@@arfived4 For me the RPG bits were some of the most interesting and we continued to play what's sort of referred to as 'narrative play' today right through to the end of 2nd ed, complete with a GM, random incursions onto the board by various wildlife or rouge soldiers and a campaign map. It's a shame nobody really plays it like that anymore.
Third Edition was when I got into the game, I remember reading the rule book in bed late at night and being entranced by the lore and the artwork, to this day opening up that book floods me with deep nostalgia. My army of choice was chaos space marines, in particular Thousand Sons since I've always been a fan of cerebral and magic/psychic based characters... Plus blue and gold is a great colour combination! I never actually played a game of it sadly, just collected the models. None of my friends were interested and the store was too far away to go there for anything than to buy things, but I did often spectate battles that were happening! Vintage times.
I think the change in tone over the years, from whimsical and somewhat cartoony to super-dooper serious, is because the creators grew up with this stuff as a hobby, whereas people these days have grown up with this as a way of life. Consequently, since this is so important to peoples' egos now, they want it to be taken seriously and not seen as 'playing with toys on a table'.
@@moretarwe’re talking about a universe where churches the size of the Vatican literally stand up and walk. I think of it like this: Certain stories can be very dark, and depressing… horrifying at times… but the setting as a whole is just- goofy as all heck.
I’m 24 and do not care how I look painting, and playing with literal plastic men. Maybe it’s because so many people grew up in a time where “being a Nerd” meant getting shoved in a locker, but that is not how things work today.
I would say it's because the lore was developed and people realised that it's actually a very interesting sci-fi setting. Once people realised it could (and has) depth, it stopped being so silly. It still is silly, but it's only natural that people started to take it more seriously when the setting began to show how much could be done with it.
I love these videos. Only a person like you, who has been invested in the hobby for decades, are able to transmit this type of "chronological analysis". Keep 'em coming, this is something you can create that most others WH content creators in this platform can't.
With the way 40k has been getting progressively more and more bloated I decided to pick up some 5th edition books and have been having a blast playing it. I never realized how much I had to juggle with warlord traits and stratagems, and only having to remember a handful of universal special rules was much less taxing. The only thing I wish I could do would be play some armies that aren't available in older editions like Admech. I'd like to try and write a 5th edition codex for them, but I have no experience in writing and balancing a rulebook.
Similarly, it's been really interesting playing 5e warhammer fantasy on out TOFG series. WAY simpler rules, tons less stress when playing. But also way more likely that something just isn't covered by the rules and you need to roll or or make it up or something, so it totally suits casual gaming but wouldn't work in today's comp scene.
@@ArbitorIan I think it’d be really cool to see something like a fan patch that fills in the holes of some of these rules and also add in newer armies to be around the same level of complexity as an older edition.
As someone that played 5th a bit GW wasnt stellar at balancing a codex either so just give it a go. that is what testing is for. Chaos was underpowered in 5th so much so that i ended up playing my chaos nightlords as a jump pack based blood angels instead. If you can find some kind of power lvl ranking of codexes from 5th look at what the middle range books did and aim for that. Avoid emulating Matt Ward. Best of luck to you
I tried Grimdark Future by One Page Rules recently and for me it definitely gave me nostalgia for 5th edition days. If you haven't already tried it I would definitely recommend having a look
I started playing at the end of 2nd edition. I miss it tremendously....I went all in on 3rd and then just kind of set it aside, life always gets in the way. Now, some years later, my two sons are getting into it and so that means I will as well. Love this channel, Ian, very well done, and your lore series are top notch! Oh, I remember playing a fun game one day with friends, I fielded an eldar army against the 4 assassins'whew what a match....imagine now days if a model could get amped up on drugs and charge across a 8ft table....ahhhh GREAT times! Keep up the stellar work!
Love the framed Rogue Trader art in the background - great video to give people context here. The whole issue around rules bloat is just part of the business model (which is not a criticism, GW are a business after all). New edition > new books to sell models > bloat rules over time > reason to release subsequent edition
Your videos on 40k are my favorite. I literally found myself reminiscing about my beginnings in 3rd, my departure from the game during the end of 6th, and now my return in 9th. Thanks. And please keep making 40k content. I always feel you talking directly to me.
I must've by pure fluke started playing just after the 2nd edition came out - two memories of things that looking back were a bit 'odd' to me even back then: 1) not all the models in the rulebook were released, so I saw the assassin, thought they looked good, sent Dad off to a GW store and they sold him a psyker as "it didn't have much weaponry, just like an assassin" 2) the painting guide I had was maybe from an old edition as the Blood Angels were terracotta with a [something] orange wash. I was the kid with the brown Blood Angels...!
Top video as always Ian. I'm pretty sure 9th Edition dropped in June or July of 2020 rather than somewhen in 2021, but bar that you were on point as far as I remember it. Great stuff. :)
I think it’s a sign of the times when you say 9th was released in 2021 when really it was two years ago in 2020! What did happen in the last two years? Great video, thank you!
Great video. I still would like an hour+ video going into fine detail about the exact rules of play in each edition but this was nice to the point and informative .
Great retrospective; got my start in Rogue Trader with the tan-plastic Beakie Marine boxes, but to date the bulk of my playing was with 3rd edition Tau. I have fond memories of the Eye of Terror world-wide campaign.
A concise and very fair summary Ian. If I was to put on a 40K game next month I would probably use Rogue Trader or Third. The basic rules for 9th are solid - it's too bad they insist on strapping on all the stupid game-breaking special case codex rules to drive sales.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane! I found your channel last week and have been enjoying the back catalogue. You mentioned in an older video about maybe doing a tale of four gamers series where you play the same scenario in all the different editions and I just wanted to say I think that's a great idea!
Really good overview. I think I would have been worth mentioning the kind of version 1.5 though. From memory the book was called the 'Battle Manual' although there might have been more than one. It introduced vehicle datasets and the targeting grid to Rogue Trader, and I think a load of streamlined weapons profiles too. Possibly even changed other core rules. Really paved the way for second edition. I'll try to find the books to send you some photos if you're interested and don't know what I'm referring to!
5th edition was my entry into 40k. Didn't realize at the time I had joined in pretty late and 6th was on the horizon. I ended up taking a break from the hobby and missed 6th and 7th. Joining back again with 8th, just as 9th was on the horizon. Turns out I have great timing when it comes to editions being over.
Started in 2e and played regularly until 6e when I got a bit fed up with the rules and also moved country and lost my old gaming group. 8e made me pay attention again but a few different elements of how it works put me off from playing it, mostly being required to re-base my old stuff honestly! I play One Page Rules now but I still consider that to be 'playing 40k', just a different design branch than the main game.
I started 40k in 6th, but really hit my hay day with it in 7th and 8th. I know people say 7th was bad, but given what’s been going on with 9th as of late my group has returned to 7th (and Horus Heresy) - minus the formations. We found that formations really killed the edition- without them it’s actually fine.
I got introduced to 40k in either 1999 or 2000 by a school friend. I remember spending the best part of a year pouring over the 1999 Citadel Miniatures Catalogue (which I recently found still mostly in-tact in my shed!) and trying to work out what armies I wanted to collect. I got totally spoiled that year, getting the 3rd Ed boxed set, a paint set with the monopose plastic marines, a Command Squad (in retrospect, what a bloody good set: Captain, Veteran Sgt, Apothecary and Tech Marine and Standard Bearer) , and Drazhar to go with the Dark Eldar. Plus the Space Marine (and the Dark and Blood Angels) Codex. And I think I got a Razorback (the plastic/metal hybrid kit) from my grandad as well. I was in love with the universe and went on to collect a small Necron and Chaos army as well. Started reading the Ghosts novels at some point along the way too. Sort of fell out of it at the end of high school and with 5th edition coming on, until finally falling back into the hobby just prior to 8th Edition. I updated and expanded my old Necrons, badly painted a bunch of 2nd hand Dark Angels and began an Admech army... and it all very sadly got stolen. But I kept on and now I'm a hopeless plastic addict with a bunch of Primaris Marines and Orks and a handful of Eldar that I might have to expand with the new releases. Anyway. Apologies to all for the ramble, just unlocked some memories about how long this hobby has been with me. Top stuff as always Ian, your videos are informative and well produced and this gives a nice overview of how the game has evolved over the years... and the endless cycle of bloat/purge the rules seem to go through.
I'm 45 & finally played 40k during the late 3rd into 4th ed time frame. I used to play 40k, Necromunda, Inquisition, & BFG. I still love the lore, but as a father of nine the minis, books & my poor painting skills make it too expensive of a hobby to justify getting back into though I would love to get my kids into it! I really enjoyed & appreciated your timeline as it brought a bunch of things to memory like fielding my first Fallen, & Death watch armies after photocopying the pages from my buddies White Dwarf.
My brother and I (been playing since 2nd edition) have just introduced a new friend to 40k, he loves it and 9th is his first time playing 40k or anything like it. It's amazing how much game knowledge you take for granted when you've been playing for 27+ years. The level of complexity for playing Crusade with Necrons is nuts and there are so many "add-on" rules aside from just trying to learn how to move, shoot, apply AP modifiers, charges, cover, not even to mention army building which can be complicated on its own. Then the add-ons - stratagems, , reanimation protocols (seriously, just make it FnP....), command protocols, cryptek arkana etc etc etc. When it coms to books, FAQs and supplements well, it's pretty obvious why certain illegal sites exist on foreign countries servers with all of the rules laid out in a fantastic, understandable way, regularly updated.
This channel is a blessing! I was looking for a brief overview of all the editions and just like that the algorithm gives me this amazing channel. Keep up the good work :)
This is actually a really handy video to cover the years where I fell out of the hobby! I got into 40k as a kid back in 3rd edition, and that is still the edition I think of as "proper" 40k (I guess everyone feels this about their 1st version!). I stopped around the time I went to university and only discovered it again in the last year or two when I hit my 30s, always wondered how the game changed so much in the years I was out of it!
I feel like 7th and 8th were kind of the peak of GW refining the game, and 9th and 10th have been more "we're replacing things on a 3 year cycle now, give money pls" editions.
refining? 7th was more like the most relaxed edition ever. bring what you want, do what you want, in terms of army composition. it got out of hand very quickly and ruined the tournament scene. but if you stuck to the force org from 6th, and didnt do invisibility stars, it was better than 6th due to less jinking skimmers.
THANK YOU! I've been looking everywhere for this history lesson. I'm surprised that Guilliman's been back for seven years already. How about a follow on video explaining the real world dates that the lore has evolved?
Great video, thanks. I find all your work well-researched, comprehensive and thoughtful - maybe the vid editing a bit jump-cutty for this old git, but I really like your presentational/discursive style. I started with Rogue Trader in 87, Epic Space Marine and Space Hulk. Loved it, but drifted out of the Hobby a year or two before 2e. Back with a vengeance now with my son, Kill Teaming and painting like never before.
I rememember going into my local games work shop store 2-3 times a week to play games in there. I started in 1991 but as I was a young kid I had no money. They used to let me play with the shop's armies and when the 2nd edition came out they game me a free copy!!! The Leeds Game workshop guys were complete legends !
I jumped into 40k in 3rd edition. I think 5th was the high point. The distance between 6th and 7th editions was just too short. I remember armies getting a codex that was out to date just a few months after coming out. 8th was my second jump on point. I'd left the hobby in 7th. Dude who remembers templates? Or the vehicle damage table,??? Some of those rules were pretty cool but it also would suck watching your big tank get taken off the board with one lucky shot
I too dislike how matched play is the baselines, especially since every who plays matched play complains about how terrible the balance is or how poorly GW does with designing the game. It annoys me to hear the people who frustrates my ability to embrace a more relaxed or narratively focused version of the game continually criticise a problem they created and contribute to.
I've definitely gotten the feeling that lots of people who play 40k seem to be incapable of either trusting of one other to run a fair and balanced game in absence of good codex balance OR they are incapable of shaking the delusion that GW know the best way that everyone whould play 40k.
Yep totally agree. Like I always say, if you want balanced warhammer buy a 40K chess set. 40K is a narrative game. Nobody plays 40K because the mechanics are good, it is all about the setting and the dice are the storytellers.
@@Dagenham_Swish people do not understand the meaning of the word. We have a crusade campaign going on in our local club and straight up from the first tour we already have a limit of nemesis dreadknights for GK player, Hive guard limit for tyranid and much more your typical tournament stuff. Without hard restrictions and moderation, a lot of folks view narrative as a game mode where “I win, everybody else lose”. It’s too naive to think that people drop that mentality of victory=fun.
@@Ultra_Hlebus yeah, with my local gaming group, even for Crusade, they always fall into forms of logic like "but why would I take that you when this unit does the same thing but better?" or "Why would i want to bring that if they would just die before they make it into combat? I'll need bring these faster things instead if I want to actually use them in any game." or "these units are niche and rarely useful, and since i'm in a crusade and I want to make sure the units I choose consistently useful, I'll just bring these instead" its sort of a "gamer logic" problem. I see the same thing in D&D a lot. "why would I take this spell/feat/subclass when I could just take this one instead and it just does more damage?"
@@Raikoh067 exactly my thoughts! Without a Game Master, who is watching over the balance and story ark of the campaign, it’s just futile. But all those restrictions and home rules may scare potential players.
I am playing since the 2nd with Tyranids and SpaceWolves. Really loved it. Felt betrayed with 3rd. Came back on 4th. Played 5th. Struggled with 6th. Hated 7th (nearly had me quit at all). Did only some 3 or 4 games in 8th and had a really big comeback with 9th, which i really love. In my Opinion, 2nd was the best, tightly followed by 4th. Let's keep it going!
I love these videos. Thank you for helping keep the history of the hobby alive and helping catch up with the hobby. I would like to highlight though that when you say "this should be getting really familiar now", I haven't played since 4th edition and I actually watch these videos to help learn what's happening in the hobby. I mostly just paint minis now and so it's really nice to hear what's going on from someone as calm and neutral as you. I'm very out of touch with the game itself these days, so thanks for helping me understand it.
Thankyou for this. I bought Rogue Trader when it came out but never actually played it, I just digested and fantasised about it. My brother and a couple of mates become obsessed with second edition but sadly we grew up and haven’t played for many many years. I have a fully painted Blood Angels army with many unavailable models and converts including a jet board riding assault marine in my loft
i remember the 3e box. The local store had it all painted up for demos, and none of us (not even the store workers) could figure out how to win with the eldar against the marines
Your comment at 13:57.. I know this is 2 years old, but THANK YOU.. Lol You have no idea how much I hate these ridiculous names.. They’re silly and make it all feel so.. I dunno, “gamey”? Or more towards video game conventions or something. Everything leans waaay too hard into their gimmick; My Death Guard can’t have standard firearms no.. They need to have a Bile Blaster or Slime Spewer or whatever.. It’s just kinda embarrassing in a manner; Granted it’s not lost on me that I’m playing pretend war with little figures.. But it didn’t have that feel before 8th :/ I hate imagining it ‘in setting’.. ..An Imperial soldier looking toward the enemy through their binoculars before the battle.. “Oh no captain.. They have a Noxious Blightbringer with them!.. Hopefully they don’t have a Malignant Plaguecaster somewhere as well.. What’s that in tow?! Poxwalkers!! Emperor Protect..”
Ik this is a pretty superfluous fix but in games you could try to ignore it a bit, 'I'm gonna shoot this squad with my guns', '20 zombies will charge at you'
Thanks for these videos. I was a Rogue Trader kid but remember 2nd edition the most. My kids have just started to dip a toe into 40K so I’m trying to get back up to speed after 25 years away. It’s interesting to hear all about the stuff I’ve missed along the way.
Third Edition will forever be my favorite era of 40k, all of the work by Andy Chambers and Gav Thorpe were what sold me on buying my first army. The artwork in the main rules book is exactly the style I think of when I first think about 40k, the heavy use of wires, plugs, flags, capes and scale.
This is an amazing fun video for a long beard! :D I lived through the first half of these editions and then took a long break from the game around 5th Edition :D
There was nothing like the 2nd edition Wargear codex. Every weapon had its own unique rules, dice, & blast templates. Now they’re all just a vanilla D6 roll.
This is SUCH a useful resource, thank you so much! I have been trying to get back into the hobby after not playing since third edition and it's been so confusing trying to work out what's the same and what's different and why and how those changes happened.
Goblin green with that flock and yellow drybrush. Truly a cursed vibe. This is really informative as someone who was out of the loop for twenty years or so, thanks
Never realised how early I joined in. I'd been playing Epic for 2 years and then got the 2nd edition box. I do remember a lot of grimdark at this time as John Blanche's art became ubiquitous.
Great video! One minor thing I would note though is that the 5th edition starter set was entirely push-fit from what I remember. I still have many of the ork and space marine models and they have held up great without any glue!
Your channel is awesome. Love your eye for the detail, like the 4 quid lotd Sargent... I personally got in touch with the hobby in 2003 with a 2nd Starter Box which had been kept back for my best friend and me, from his father. So those really where my first experience as a child with tabeltop plus lotr. When I was older I started an more serious atempt on 40k with black reach, which where allready push fit tho I think. Don't konw if its for nostalgia, but I just prefere 2ed, Rouge Trader and some special systems way more over 40k since a long while now again. Just flipping through those black and white pages full of mini artworks and some much desired models on the desk as a kind, gives me so much joy. Channel like yours, let me understand the stuff I was too young for, back in the days. Keep up the great work Mate
My introduction to 40K was the end of RT/1st edition. I bought models and started playing during 2nd edition. My first boxed set was 3rd Edition. I was so proud of it. (I still have the terrain buildings/crashed valkyrie ruins from it and 4th Ed) I stopped playing during 5th Edition (still have the hard book rulebook and the plastic Marine models)
Black Reach was my first set and my friend also got one so we traded halfs to double our forces. I had double orks and it was a great first army to paint and get really into.
My buddy has 2 Battle for Macragge boxes (he was missing something small or whatever in the first box, so GW sent him another for free) that he showed me when we were in middle school. We sort of played a small game with all the models, him playing Space Wolves and me playing Tyranids. It was fun enough that I found the Tau and dreamed about it all through high school. After we graduated college, I visited his new house and we went to a nearby game store that has a big wall of GW models. We both realized we had money now and built up our armies at the end of 8th edition. It's nice when dreams come true.
I was there at the start of first edition but then got out of the hobby shortly before second edition, never realising that the whole game would be updated! I then got back into it with the kids in eighth and I’ve continued into ninth.
I ran the tournaments for the US for a number of years. Great times. Lots of drinking. Jerm was my boss’ boss while I was there before he went to the UK. I miss it but I can’t possibly do that job anymore. Settling arguments for an extended weekend at cons is a job for the young.
3rd edition is the best because everyone had a current book, but while I haven't tried it yet I'm thinking the 4th Ed rules and the first print codexes of 3rd for the armies (ie use the green guard book or Catachan vs black cover version), only caveat being the revisions for Dark Eldar and I want to say Dark Angels. Yes, Necrona and Tau will be a bit more powerful this way with their "intended for 4th" books, but they already were so it's really not that big of a change to how it was haha.
I started with Rogue Trader, then 2nd edition, then went to uni and couldn’t afford to game so missed 3rd and 4th..restarted with 5th about 8 years after finishing Uni, been playing solidly ever since, every edition
I hate how 40k changed after 7th. Everything from 8th onwards lost the Grimdark feel, and lost any sort of immersion with their "streamlined" rules, rules which don't actually speed up play time (not a problem), but require more than just two books to play and made it more of a child's game than a proper strategy and tactics tabletop game. 7th Edition was actually very streamlined, and the Universal Special Rules helped combat rules bloat. I don't know why everyone was complaing about that in 7th, I feel like it didn't have rules bloat. New units were added in supplements, which could have been included in the next codex, but in principal, all you needed was the core rulebook and the codex of your choice.
Have you actually played 9th, or even 10th?? Sure that was an issue with 8th edition, I mean- you needed your core book, then your codex, the. Your codexes codex, and so on. But 9th fixed that issue by going mostly digital with the now old 40K, and having that be kept up to date with balance patches, and FAQs. And though I hate 10th because it got rid of a lot of individual army customization, I still think that it’s rules are superior to 7th edition. (Though most of my knowledge of 7th edition comes from the Horus Heresy, which is like- 7.5 edition.)
5th was really the last good edition. granted it started to fall apart when they started to release "for 6th" codexes (Necrons, Grey knights, and Dark Eldar i believe). the rules were easy, yet complex. the codexes were full of customization and allowed solid, yet fair rules. granted the customization in 4th was better, but it was a bit more heroish at that time. once 6th came out they just added more shit rules into the game, each edition getting worse. a few 6th ed rules were nice like the change to power weapons, but most new rules were awful.
My family/friends recently went back to fifth, and it’s fantastic. I played mostly seventh in my teens, and then eighth, and while I enjoyed 8th a lot more for feeling less choked on rules, it was incredibly lethal and lost a lot of the old game’s flavor. Four games in and fifth edition has been a blast. Easily the most fun I’ve had with the game.
Born in 1972, I first started with the 1st edition rulebook. Plus the great Realms of Chaos double volume. I lived through the GW era of the 80s-90s. Then it got too expensive. Still love and follow the Lore, though, and Im a big fan of the Necrons.
Had 2nd edition. Loved the game so much. When Tyranids got their own Codex I was blown away. Before that there were carnifex, Tyranid warrior and genestealers. Suddenly we had lictors, zenomorphs and hive tyrants with all sorts of wonderful upgrades. Wish I’d played the Epic 40k Tyranid army back then too.
Born in 1985, the 2nd. Edition from 1993 will always be my most fondable memory. Today those older plastic models are blend and boring, but the metal models still rock today and im looking for them on the second hand market.
I was a player for almost all for 3rd edition. Seeing this recap just makes me want to find another 3rd edition player, or see if I can find a One Page Rules group to play with.
I got in it in the 4th edition. I didnt realise how few are the minis in the maccrage box compared to the 5th edition boxset. Good to see the history of the game though, thank you for your videos
What a great video! I still have the Rogue Trader book to this day. My school friends and I played up until the mid 90s. After that we didn’t play again. We never got the second or third editions. I painted the miniatures instead for many years after though. So this video was a great walk down memory lane for memories that I don’t have 😂
I got into 40K with Kidhammer, a simplified ruleset based off of 3rd or 4th edition that my dad made, and then got back into 40K with 8th edition recently, since I finally enjoy painting models. We still use simplified rules, using only the strategems in the base rulebook, and my dad will make up datasheets for old models frequently, so we can use models like Squats and weird old robots.
Excellent video! I played 40k from Rogue Trader and finally quit at 5th ed and never came back. I really like your description of the brain bloat concept, and 40k on the outside these days looks to be one of the worst offenders of this.
I started on 2nd edition. I remember a colleague of my mother gave me his old 1st edition armies as a gift which was very nice. His models were very dark, brilliantly painted and clearly more mature than my colourful and trashy paint jobs. Haven't played in 20 years but still have almost all my figures. I pull them out now and again for nostalgia.
2nd edition brings back memories, seeing those boxes and books. The Eldar one brings back memories, but when I got that Chaos one I was so happy. Nice little nostalgic trip 🙂
Absolutely love this video and covering this type of content. I got a brief introduction in 3rd ed but recently picked back up in 9th. I'd love to see an ecosystem history video done in this style. Ie. How does forgeworld, the old spacehulk game, black library, white dwarf, etc all fit together
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason 40K is getting so dark and muted is because they used all the color in 2nd Edition and no one's changed the toner yet.
Lool
Lol
LMAO
This is now my headcanon reason
Who prints in MAGENTA
The "competitive 40k is the only kind of 40k" thing has always been weirdly prevalent. I recall one time some friends ran a pretty loose casual game to give me a try (basically a three way deathmatch), and we decided to use one of the standard game modes but ignore the deployment zone rules in order to fit three armies on one board. This other guy hanging out with us in the store, bless his heart, just couldn't wrap his head around it.
"Wait, that's not how the deployment rules work."
"We know, we're just house ruling it for this game."
"No, but the rulebook says that you-"
"Yes, we know this isn't how it's done in the rulebook, it's okay, we've all agreed to ignore this specific rule for this specific game."
(Visible confusion)
That mindset is so baffling. I saw a guy online asking how to play a certain situation. He wanted to give a character a relic that replaces a chainsword, but the character was equipped with an astartes chainsword. This is a toy soldier game that's 99 percent dependent on dice rolling. I wouldn't be able to take it that serious if I tried.
Dude forgot the most important rule:
Have fun.
For me, the one important part about matched/competitive is the point cost. They are always wonky, but the best metric for deciding how "fair" a game is.
Beyond that, when playing with friends, fun is the rule nr 1. "hey, my tau pathfinder just killed a terminator in close combat, can I give him a better profile for the rest of the game cause he is obviously a badass?" "Sure".
The overlap of people very into 40k and people somewhere on the spectrum is probably fairly high. And I'm not saying that as an insult to anyone.
As someone hinted above me…its a fairly safe bet to assume that about 80% of adults in GW stores have some level of autism
Hi Ian, I am a dodgy old bloke in his sixties and not at all into playing 40k ( Tricorne hats and muskets are more my thing), however I do find the lore fascinating. I just wanted to drop you a quick note to say how much I enjoy your video's and to tell you what a great narrating/story telling voice you have. If you are unhappy in your present employment you should really consider a career in narrating audio books, I have listened to many of these and have to say your voice is much better than a lot of voice's that I have heard. Anyway as I said thanks very much for putting out some great video's, I would really like to send you a few quid but being a pensioner and yadda yadda moan groan etc. Anyway keep up the great work, all the best Rory.
I got into Warhammer in the 90's, was more into the painting and lore myself. Didn't even play that many games, on the table.
What a nice thing to say!
Ian popped up in a video ad for the company in which he seems to have a successful tech career, but he has got quite a good voice. Could be a teacher.
@@CBfrmcardiff His voice and cadence is very comfortable.
And now a new edition will arrive!
3rd edition is where I came into the world of 40k. The artwork from that era has aged exceptionally well
I honestly prefer the Tyranids from back then. I might take a lot of heat for that but I’ll stand by it.
Most of the 3rd edition Necrons codex artwork seemed like this awesome grim-dark style. A lot of the "new" units after seem cartoony.
I was a 5th Edition kid, but my first foray into 40k was a 3rd Edition rulebook given to me by a local wizard, I knew 3rd edition rules better than I do the current ruleset! I'd love to actually play a few games of 3rd edition
Do it!
Me too. Do it!
Third edition was gold.
I'd recommend playing 3rd. with the Chapter Approved and various supplements/White Dwarf articles, also known as 3.5 Edition. There's some serious problems with the initial release of 3rd. Terminators don't have invulnerable saves. Rapid fire weapons are useless. Vanilla Orks and vanilla Space Marines are unplayable unless you go all-in on cheese (like six 5x man Tactical Squads with Lascannons, 3x Dreadnoughts, and 3x Predators cheese). Transports are goofy since rules for access and fire points were missing (Chimeras have 6 lasguns modeled for passengers to use....but you can't actually use them because it's not written anywhere 😂).
Still prefer 4th. over 3rd. because of the rules changes to vehicles and the codices were balanced a bit more, along with the scoring used for missions.
I to am a 5th kid. Tbh 9th is my favourite edition
"Finecast is basically like forgeworld"
And that's an improvement? Damn. Finecast must've been catastrophic.
It was horrific.
haha. Forge QA is terrible and the recasters put them to shame
In case anyone is wondering WHY they stopped listing author names on their books... just mention the name 'Matt Ward' in basically any hobby community and watch the ensuing firestorm.
That name is not allowed to be spoken aloud in my house
@@tommccarthy1233 but why? pls explain, since I'm too lazy to google it.
@@MAST3RKAITO he’s the one who made the ultramarines the #1 love child of games workshop… there were NONE better!
@@tommccarthy1233 If you say it three times will he appear and repaint your Marines as Ultras?
@@MAST3RKAITO Basically he made a lot of really over the top and overpowered codexes (Necrons and Grey Knights), but also made a lot of silly fluff that was more about fitting his own headcannon than actually telling a story that made sense.
But then because 40k nerds love to take their little toy soldiers far too seriously, people thought it'd be a good idea to send the guy a deluge of hate mail and death threats. This caused GW to stop putting names on books for the safety of their own staff.
3rd Edition player here, Dark Eldar from day 1 with my best mate at the time being obsessed with the Craftworld Eldar from the White Dwarf feature (although the yellow and blue cover art being confused for a LEGO magazine on the school bus annoyed him no end)
Great video as ever Ian, interesting to get some context for the changes and editions that I wasn't actively playing
I miss that White Dwarf book.
One of the things that never seems to get mentioned about old 40K is the introduction in 1st edition of the Battle Manual, (which streamlined a lot of the rules of 1st edition that were previously in supplements, like a first-draft proto-2nd edition) and Vehicle Manual (which was a completely bonkers vehicle rules update, with vehicle silhouettes and a giant transparent plastic crosshair template you positioned over them on the bit you wanted to hit). These were very much my era, and were (for me and my mates, anyway) a really huge deal.
Never mentioned, but not forgotten! I've still got one on my shelf.
I just made a comment about this, I should have read the other comments first! In retrospect the Battle Manual in particular seems like a dry run for 2nd edition. Ignoring the targetting templates and silhouettes (which were admittedly the main part of the supplement) the Vehicle Manual's rules are pretty similar to the 2nd edition's vehicle rules. The silhouette stuff probably got dropped because while it was OK to use in skirmishes involving a vehicle or two at most per side GW probably had their eye on making vehicles a much more important part of the game in 2nd edition and onwards, so a quicker system was needed.
I remember those transparent aiming templates lol 👍
I remember that transparent targeting thing. I remember seeing a similar thing in a tabletop RPG about a decade ago, something to do with the wild west called Aces & Eights
Yea I don't think we ever played 40k properly until after the Battle Manual came out. That thing was just the best
I started Playing in 1996. I felt that the change over to 3rd, was less Grim Dark. it was less about the Fluff of the game and more about the game play itself that lead to that feeling. The simpler game felt like you had urgency and dire consequences, it felt more like just a game
Agreed, I felt 3rd made everything very bland compared to how alive the setting felt in 2nd. Orks especially got it the worst with the importance of the clans being minimized for several editions
2nd may have been less balanced, but the games were like stories playing out while you played. Less models but more individual, wacky wargear and better unique characters. It was less armies fighting each other, more heroes and their small retinues clashing with each other.
@@stryke-jn3kv 3rd edition was more serious in tone than 2nd, made it feel more Grim Dark but also omitted a lot of the fluff from the first 2 editions that added to the wacky 2000 AD feel
I played in the Eye of Terror campaign back in the day. You really blasted me with nostalgia while talking about 3rd edition.
This is a really good channel, very good review of the lore and the older creative ideas of Games Workshop. Glad I subscribed.
I started playing in 4th ED, and im still very confused about when vehicles stopped having armour and started being monstrous creatures
That would be 8e.
@@r.alexandercorbitt1554I'm a bit late, but I wanted to point out 6E started the idea by making Tau suits into monstrous creatures.
Still got all the Battle for Macragge stuff when I was a wee lad, I repainted it all a few years back and most of it is still used! The crashed shuttle terrain is great terrain 👌
I agree. That downed shuttle is so cool. Recently found a copy of the box and the first thing I painted was the airplane :D
Going to have to argue against Finecast being equivalent to Forge World resin. FW kits have their issues, but Finecast is bad, brittle resin, and the moulds are tooled really badly, especially for the models that were originally in metal. The amount of shims between detailed parts is crazy. Working on some Eldar Rangers right now, which were originally (highly detailed) metal sculpts and there are times where I basically have to carve detail back in that the shims destroyed.
I feel like this was a subtle dig by Ian about how Forge World is shit and thus Finecast is still shit because it matches Forge World. Like one of the ways to spot if a model is actually from Forge World or is a recast is the recast will be higher quality 🤣😂
Forgeworld stuff is Incredible quality, in my experience.
Ugh. Finecast. So many bubbles and bent pieces. FW is so hit or miss I don't bother with it. For the price I pay they should be getting rid of the release agent off the model and not have warped pieces to the point where the model is un-buildable.
Does it still feel like it's lighter than air? that's something I cannot get over with the few FC models I have.
Well at least you’ll hopefully be getting some plastic rangers soon… Finecast is hell…
Everybody forgets that Games Workshop had an audio/record division for a while... some bangers on there: Realm of Chaos by Bolt Thrower, and whatever the album by D-Rok was called... 😆😅🙃
Bolt Thrower wasn't actually on the GW label (RoC came out on Earache), but they sure did crosspromote it plenty!
Lol! I forgot all about that!
Wait? Bolt Thrower was officially licensed? The Album Cover seemed to be more of an attempt to just not getting sued.
Ok turns out I never knew the Original Artwork, that indeed has been done by GW. The re release from 2005 looks so ass
the flush of nostalgia and childhood excitement that I got when Battle for Macragge came on the screen is indescribable
Ah, beloved 3rd edition... Back in 1998 I started my journey into the hobby and while I haven't played a game in ages, maybe 7th or 8th edition, I still love the universe. Even done some cosplay.
The first White Dwarf on display in this video is the first one I ever bought, issue 116, from August 1989. Ah, the memories. 🙂
In some ways the shift from 1st to 2nd edition wasn't particularly sudden or abrupt. The game's rules were getting changed quite regularly via White Dwarf in its early days and prior to the release of 2nd edition the Battle Manual and the Vehicle Manual replaced almost all of the rules that were in the Rogue Trader rulebook and 2nd edition was clearly inspired by those books. Consolidating the chaotic collection of books, compilations and White Dwarf articles that comprised the 40k ruleset at the end of 1st edition into one big accessible box set was a major step forward though.
Reminds me a lot of the transition between Original D&D and 1e Basic/Advanced D&D. The designers were figuring out a whole new hobby as they went along, and throwing ideas in via supplements or magazine articles. Until a complete game (or games, in the case of Basic vs Advanced) solidified and all the supplemental material was included in the main books.
Like, the original "three brown booklets" were revolutionary, sure, but they were barely functional rulesets. (The initial plan was to run combat off a completely different book, Chainmail, before a "Get You Buy" set of combat tables were added last minute as a concession to those who didn't own Chainmail). Certainly barely recognizable as D&D as we've come to know it.
I also got into 40k in 1989 (my first WD was 111, with the Squat army list), and when I told my mate (who was a big modeller) that I'd gone out and bought the rule book, his response was "Why? The only bit you need is the rule summary at the back, and I could have photocopied you that", and suggesting that I get White Dwarf for the army lists.
The game we played felt way closer to rules in the Battle Manual than the RT book, and I was always annoyed that we never used the "RPG bit" at the back, because I liked the look of all that stuff.
@@arfived4 For me the RPG bits were some of the most interesting and we continued to play what's sort of referred to as 'narrative play' today right through to the end of 2nd ed, complete with a GM, random incursions onto the board by various wildlife or rouge soldiers and a campaign map. It's a shame nobody really plays it like that anymore.
@@memitim171 I've been turning those bits into an actual rpg...
And now a new edition will arrive!
I love hobby/fandom history like this, be it wargaming or speedrunning or strange internet happenings. Even better when it's about a game I love!
Third Edition was when I got into the game, I remember reading the rule book in bed late at night and being entranced by the lore and the artwork, to this day opening up that book floods me with deep nostalgia. My army of choice was chaos space marines, in particular Thousand Sons since I've always been a fan of cerebral and magic/psychic based characters... Plus blue and gold is a great colour combination! I never actually played a game of it sadly, just collected the models. None of my friends were interested and the store was too far away to go there for anything than to buy things, but I did often spectate battles that were happening! Vintage times.
I think the change in tone over the years, from whimsical and somewhat cartoony to super-dooper serious, is because the creators grew up with this stuff as a hobby, whereas people these days have grown up with this as a way of life. Consequently, since this is so important to peoples' egos now, they want it to be taken seriously and not seen as 'playing with toys on a table'.
And yet fans miss the stupid bullshit of earlier editions
I mean, 40k is a horror story and every horror story gets a little silly when you think too much about it.
@@moretarwe’re talking about a universe where churches the size of the Vatican literally stand up and walk.
I think of it like this:
Certain stories can be very dark, and depressing… horrifying at times… but the setting as a whole is just- goofy as all heck.
I’m 24 and do not care how I look painting, and playing with literal plastic men.
Maybe it’s because so many people grew up in a time where “being a Nerd” meant getting shoved in a locker, but that is not how things work today.
I would say it's because the lore was developed and people realised that it's actually a very interesting sci-fi setting. Once people realised it could (and has) depth, it stopped being so silly. It still is silly, but it's only natural that people started to take it more seriously when the setting began to show how much could be done with it.
I love these videos. Only a person like you, who has been invested in the hobby for decades, are able to transmit this type of "chronological analysis". Keep 'em coming, this is something you can create that most others WH content creators in this platform can't.
With the way 40k has been getting progressively more and more bloated I decided to pick up some 5th edition books and have been having a blast playing it. I never realized how much I had to juggle with warlord traits and stratagems, and only having to remember a handful of universal special rules was much less taxing. The only thing I wish I could do would be play some armies that aren't available in older editions like Admech. I'd like to try and write a 5th edition codex for them, but I have no experience in writing and balancing a rulebook.
Similarly, it's been really interesting playing 5e warhammer fantasy on out TOFG series. WAY simpler rules, tons less stress when playing. But also way more likely that something just isn't covered by the rules and you need to roll or or make it up or something, so it totally suits casual gaming but wouldn't work in today's comp scene.
@@ArbitorIan I think it’d be really cool to see something like a fan patch that fills in the holes of some of these rules and also add in newer armies to be around the same level of complexity as an older edition.
As someone that played 5th a bit GW wasnt stellar at balancing a codex either so just give it a go. that is what testing is for. Chaos was underpowered in 5th so much so that i ended up playing my chaos nightlords as a jump pack based blood angels instead. If you can find some kind of power lvl ranking of codexes from 5th look at what the middle range books did and aim for that. Avoid emulating Matt Ward. Best of luck to you
Try grimdark future it's supposed to be quite simple and similar to 3ed but has rules for the new 40k factions.
I tried Grimdark Future by One Page Rules recently and for me it definitely gave me nostalgia for 5th edition days. If you haven't already tried it I would definitely recommend having a look
I started playing at the end of 2nd edition. I miss it tremendously....I went all in on 3rd and then just kind of set it aside, life always gets in the way. Now, some years later, my two sons are getting into it and so that means I will as well. Love this channel, Ian, very well done, and your lore series are top notch! Oh, I remember playing a fun game one day with friends, I fielded an eldar army against the 4 assassins'whew what a match....imagine now days if a model could get amped up on drugs and charge across a 8ft table....ahhhh GREAT times! Keep up the stellar work!
I like how you handled the whole codexes/codices argument. No matter which way it is said some people will say it's wrong.
Brilliant overview, particularly love the shade thrown at matched/competitive play.
40K is a narrative game, always has been.
And now a new edition will arrive soon!
Love the framed Rogue Trader art in the background - great video to give people context here. The whole issue around rules bloat is just part of the business model (which is not a criticism, GW are a business after all).
New edition > new books to sell models > bloat rules over time > reason to release subsequent edition
Your videos on 40k are my favorite.
I literally found myself reminiscing about my beginnings in 3rd, my departure from the game during the end of 6th, and now my return in 9th.
Thanks.
And please keep making 40k content.
I always feel you talking directly to me.
I must've by pure fluke started playing just after the 2nd edition came out - two memories of things that looking back were a bit 'odd' to me even back then:
1) not all the models in the rulebook were released, so I saw the assassin, thought they looked good, sent Dad off to a GW store and they sold him a psyker as "it didn't have much weaponry, just like an assassin"
2) the painting guide I had was maybe from an old edition as the Blood Angels were terracotta with a [something] orange wash. I was the kid with the brown Blood Angels...!
Thank you for talking about preferring less serious/more narrative 40k play to matched/tournament. Breath of fresh air, it is.
Top video as always Ian. I'm pretty sure 9th Edition dropped in June or July of 2020 rather than somewhen in 2021, but bar that you were on point as far as I remember it. Great stuff. :)
Yeah definitely. I remember 9th dropping during the first covid lockdown period and I think it’ll be remembered as the covid edition!
I think it’s a sign of the times when you say 9th was released in 2021 when really it was two years ago in 2020! What did happen in the last two years?
Great video, thank you!
Ha! Hold on 2020 was two years ago? 😂
Love this video, was like a walk down memory lane. Got into the hobby at the end of Rogue Trader era, got out at 3rd the back in again at 5th edition.
Great video. I still would like an hour+ video going into fine detail about the exact rules of play in each edition but this was nice to the point and informative .
Great retrospective; got my start in Rogue Trader with the tan-plastic Beakie Marine boxes, but to date the bulk of my playing was with 3rd edition Tau. I have fond memories of the Eye of Terror world-wide campaign.
A concise and very fair summary Ian. If I was to put on a 40K game next month I would probably use Rogue Trader or Third. The basic rules for 9th are solid - it's too bad they insist on strapping on all the stupid game-breaking special case codex rules to drive sales.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane! I found your channel last week and have been enjoying the back catalogue. You mentioned in an older video about maybe doing a tale of four gamers series where you play the same scenario in all the different editions and I just wanted to say I think that's a great idea!
Really good overview. I think I would have been worth mentioning the kind of version 1.5 though. From memory the book was called the 'Battle Manual' although there might have been more than one. It introduced vehicle datasets and the targeting grid to Rogue Trader, and I think a load of streamlined weapons profiles too. Possibly even changed other core rules. Really paved the way for second edition.
I'll try to find the books to send you some photos if you're interested and don't know what I'm referring to!
Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. I paused this a couple times to locate the books or mins from several of the early editions.
5th edition was my entry into 40k. Didn't realize at the time I had joined in pretty late and 6th was on the horizon. I ended up taking a break from the hobby and missed 6th and 7th. Joining back again with 8th, just as 9th was on the horizon. Turns out I have great timing when it comes to editions being over.
Started in 2e and played regularly until 6e when I got a bit fed up with the rules and also moved country and lost my old gaming group. 8e made me pay attention again but a few different elements of how it works put me off from playing it, mostly being required to re-base my old stuff honestly! I play One Page Rules now but I still consider that to be 'playing 40k', just a different design branch than the main game.
Pretty much my story too! The rules bloat in 6ed was insane.
I started 40k in 6th, but really hit my hay day with it in 7th and 8th. I know people say 7th was bad, but given what’s been going on with 9th as of late my group has returned to 7th (and Horus Heresy) - minus the formations.
We found that formations really killed the edition- without them it’s actually fine.
I really can't believe they did a whole clown elf army before we got a single dinosaur elf sculpt
I got introduced to 40k in either 1999 or 2000 by a school friend. I remember spending the best part of a year pouring over the 1999 Citadel Miniatures Catalogue (which I recently found still mostly in-tact in my shed!) and trying to work out what armies I wanted to collect. I got totally spoiled that year, getting the 3rd Ed boxed set, a paint set with the monopose plastic marines, a Command Squad (in retrospect, what a bloody good set: Captain, Veteran Sgt, Apothecary and Tech Marine and Standard Bearer) , and Drazhar to go with the Dark Eldar. Plus the Space Marine (and the Dark and Blood Angels) Codex. And I think I got a Razorback (the plastic/metal hybrid kit) from my grandad as well.
I was in love with the universe and went on to collect a small Necron and Chaos army as well. Started reading the Ghosts novels at some point along the way too.
Sort of fell out of it at the end of high school and with 5th edition coming on, until finally falling back into the hobby just prior to 8th Edition. I updated and expanded my old Necrons, badly painted a bunch of 2nd hand Dark Angels and began an Admech army... and it all very sadly got stolen. But I kept on and now I'm a hopeless plastic addict with a bunch of Primaris Marines and Orks and a handful of Eldar that I might have to expand with the new releases.
Anyway. Apologies to all for the ramble, just unlocked some memories about how long this hobby has been with me. Top stuff as always Ian, your videos are informative and well produced and this gives a nice overview of how the game has evolved over the years... and the endless cycle of bloat/purge the rules seem to go through.
16:09
"As 40k goes from being a complex skirmish level game played with metal soldiers to a complex battle game played with overpriced plastic models"
I'm 45 & finally played 40k during the late 3rd into 4th ed time frame. I used to play 40k, Necromunda, Inquisition, & BFG. I still love the lore, but as a father of nine the minis, books & my poor painting skills make it too expensive of a hobby to justify getting back into though I would love to get my kids into it! I really enjoyed & appreciated your timeline as it brought a bunch of things to memory like fielding my first Fallen, & Death watch armies after photocopying the pages from my buddies White Dwarf.
Sorry sir, did you say FATHER OF NINE???
My brother and I (been playing since 2nd edition) have just introduced a new friend to 40k, he loves it and 9th is his first time playing 40k or anything like it. It's amazing how much game knowledge you take for granted when you've been playing for 27+ years. The level of complexity for playing Crusade with Necrons is nuts and there are so many "add-on" rules aside from just trying to learn how to move, shoot, apply AP modifiers, charges, cover, not even to mention army building which can be complicated on its own.
Then the add-ons - stratagems, , reanimation protocols (seriously, just make it FnP....), command protocols, cryptek arkana etc etc etc.
When it coms to books, FAQs and supplements well, it's pretty obvious why certain illegal sites exist on foreign countries servers with all of the rules laid out in a fantastic, understandable way, regularly updated.
This channel is a blessing! I was looking for a brief overview of all the editions and just like that the algorithm gives me this amazing channel. Keep up the good work :)
This is actually a really handy video to cover the years where I fell out of the hobby! I got into 40k as a kid back in 3rd edition, and that is still the edition I think of as "proper" 40k (I guess everyone feels this about their 1st version!). I stopped around the time I went to university and only discovered it again in the last year or two when I hit my 30s, always wondered how the game changed so much in the years I was out of it!
I feel like 7th and 8th were kind of the peak of GW refining the game, and 9th and 10th have been more "we're replacing things on a 3 year cycle now, give money pls" editions.
refining? 7th was more like the most relaxed edition ever. bring what you want, do what you want, in terms of army composition. it got out of hand very quickly and ruined the tournament scene. but if you stuck to the force org from 6th, and didnt do invisibility stars, it was better than 6th due to less jinking skimmers.
THANK YOU! I've been looking everywhere for this history lesson. I'm surprised that Guilliman's been back for seven years already. How about a follow on video explaining the real world dates that the lore has evolved?
Great video, thanks. I find all your work well-researched, comprehensive and thoughtful - maybe the vid editing a bit jump-cutty for this old git, but I really like your presentational/discursive style. I started with Rogue Trader in 87, Epic Space Marine and Space Hulk. Loved it, but drifted out of the Hobby a year or two before 2e. Back with a vengeance now with my son, Kill Teaming and painting like never before.
I rememember going into my local games work shop store 2-3 times a week to play games in there. I started in 1991 but as I was a young kid I had no money. They used to let me play with the shop's armies and when the 2nd edition came out they game me a free copy!!! The Leeds Game workshop guys were complete legends !
I jumped into 40k in 3rd edition. I think 5th was the high point. The distance between 6th and 7th editions was just too short. I remember armies getting a codex that was out to date just a few months after coming out. 8th was my second jump on point. I'd left the hobby in 7th. Dude who remembers templates? Or the vehicle damage table,??? Some of those rules were pretty cool but it also would suck watching your big tank get taken off the board with one lucky shot
fantastic history of the editions. Thank you for this!
I too dislike how matched play is the baselines, especially since every who plays matched play complains about how terrible the balance is or how poorly GW does with designing the game. It annoys me to hear the people who frustrates my ability to embrace a more relaxed or narratively focused version of the game continually criticise a problem they created and contribute to.
I've definitely gotten the feeling that lots of people who play 40k seem to be incapable of either trusting of one other to run a fair and balanced game in absence of good codex balance OR they are incapable of shaking the delusion that GW know the best way that everyone whould play 40k.
Yep totally agree. Like I always say, if you want balanced warhammer buy a 40K chess set.
40K is a narrative game. Nobody plays 40K because the mechanics are good, it is all about the setting and the dice are the storytellers.
@@Dagenham_Swish people do not understand the meaning of the word.
We have a crusade campaign going on in our local club and straight up from the first tour we already have a limit of nemesis dreadknights for GK player, Hive guard limit for tyranid and much more your typical tournament stuff. Without hard restrictions and moderation, a lot of folks view narrative as a game mode where “I win, everybody else lose”. It’s too naive to think that people drop that mentality of victory=fun.
@@Ultra_Hlebus yeah, with my local gaming group, even for Crusade, they always fall into forms of logic like "but why would I take that you when this unit does the same thing but better?" or "Why would i want to bring that if they would just die before they make it into combat? I'll need bring these faster things instead if I want to actually use them in any game." or "these units are niche and rarely useful, and since i'm in a crusade and I want to make sure the units I choose consistently useful, I'll just bring these instead"
its sort of a "gamer logic" problem. I see the same thing in D&D a lot. "why would I take this spell/feat/subclass when I could just take this one instead and it just does more damage?"
@@Raikoh067 exactly my thoughts!
Without a Game Master, who is watching over the balance and story ark of the campaign, it’s just futile.
But all those restrictions and home rules may scare potential players.
I am playing since the 2nd with Tyranids and SpaceWolves. Really loved it. Felt betrayed with 3rd. Came back on 4th. Played 5th. Struggled with 6th. Hated 7th (nearly had me quit at all). Did only some 3 or 4 games in 8th and had a really big comeback with 9th, which i really love.
In my Opinion, 2nd was the best, tightly followed by 4th.
Let's keep it going!
loved the video, wonder what some of your deeper thougths on the underlying company growth along this timeline would have looked like.
I love these videos. Thank you for helping keep the history of the hobby alive and helping catch up with the hobby. I would like to highlight though that when you say "this should be getting really familiar now", I haven't played since 4th edition and I actually watch these videos to help learn what's happening in the hobby. I mostly just paint minis now and so it's really nice to hear what's going on from someone as calm and neutral as you. I'm very out of touch with the game itself these days, so thanks for helping me understand it.
If I recall correctly, super heavy vehicles and flyers were first introduced in Apocalypse which I think was during 4th or 5th.
Nah they both had official rules in 3rd from Forgeworld.
Thankyou for this. I bought Rogue Trader when it came out but never actually played it, I just digested and fantasised about it. My brother and a couple of mates become obsessed with second edition but sadly we grew up and haven’t played for many many years. I have a fully painted Blood Angels army with many unavailable models and converts including a jet board riding assault marine in my loft
i remember the 3e box. The local store had it all painted up for demos, and none of us (not even the store workers) could figure out how to win with the eldar against the marines
Your comment at 13:57..
I know this is 2 years old, but THANK YOU.. Lol
You have no idea how much I hate these ridiculous names..
They’re silly and make it all feel so..
I dunno, “gamey”?
Or more towards video game conventions or something.
Everything leans waaay too hard into their gimmick; My Death Guard can’t have standard firearms no.. They need to have a Bile Blaster or Slime Spewer or whatever..
It’s just kinda embarrassing in a manner; Granted it’s not lost on me that I’m playing pretend war with little figures.. But it didn’t have that feel before 8th :/
I hate imagining it ‘in setting’..
..An Imperial soldier looking toward the enemy through their binoculars before the battle..
“Oh no captain.. They have a Noxious Blightbringer with them!.. Hopefully they don’t have a Malignant Plaguecaster somewhere as well.. What’s that in tow?! Poxwalkers!!
Emperor Protect..”
Ik this is a pretty superfluous fix but in games you could try to ignore it a bit, 'I'm gonna shoot this squad with my guns', '20 zombies will charge at you'
Thanks for these videos. I was a Rogue Trader kid but remember 2nd edition the most. My kids have just started to dip a toe into 40K so I’m trying to get back up to speed after 25 years away. It’s interesting to hear all about the stuff I’ve missed along the way.
Third Edition will forever be my favorite era of 40k, all of the work by Andy Chambers and Gav Thorpe were what sold me on buying my first army. The artwork in the main rules book is exactly the style I think of when I first think about 40k, the heavy use of wires, plugs, flags, capes and scale.
This is an amazing fun video for a long beard! :D I lived through the first half of these editions and then took a long break from the game around 5th Edition :D
There was nothing like the 2nd edition Wargear codex. Every weapon had its own unique rules, dice, & blast templates. Now they’re all just a vanilla D6 roll.
This is SUCH a useful resource, thank you so much! I have been trying to get back into the hobby after not playing since third edition and it's been so confusing trying to work out what's the same and what's different and why and how those changes happened.
Goblin green with that flock and yellow drybrush. Truly a cursed vibe.
This is really informative as someone who was out of the loop for twenty years or so, thanks
6:20 - I feel at once complimented and called out.
Never realised how early I joined in. I'd been playing Epic for 2 years and then got the 2nd edition box. I do remember a lot of grimdark at this time as John Blanche's art became ubiquitous.
Great video! One minor thing I would note though is that the 5th edition starter set was entirely push-fit from what I remember. I still have many of the ork and space marine models and they have held up great without any glue!
Your channel is awesome. Love your eye for the detail, like the 4 quid lotd Sargent...
I personally got in touch with the hobby in 2003 with a 2nd Starter Box which had been kept back for my best friend and me, from his father. So those really where my first experience as a child with tabeltop plus lotr. When I was older I started an more serious atempt on 40k with black reach, which where allready push fit tho I think. Don't konw if its for nostalgia, but I just prefere 2ed, Rouge Trader and some special systems way more over 40k since a long while now again. Just flipping through those black and white pages full of mini artworks and some much desired models on the desk as a kind, gives me so much joy.
Channel like yours, let me understand the stuff I was too young for, back in the days.
Keep up the great work Mate
My introduction to 40K was the end of RT/1st edition. I bought models and started playing during 2nd edition.
My first boxed set was 3rd Edition. I was so proud of it. (I still have the terrain buildings/crashed valkyrie ruins from it and 4th Ed)
I stopped playing during 5th Edition (still have the hard book rulebook and the plastic Marine models)
Black Reach was my first set and my friend also got one so we traded halfs to double our forces. I had double orks and it was a great first army to paint and get really into.
My buddy has 2 Battle for Macragge boxes (he was missing something small or whatever in the first box, so GW sent him another for free) that he showed me when we were in middle school. We sort of played a small game with all the models, him playing Space Wolves and me playing Tyranids. It was fun enough that I found the Tau and dreamed about it all through high school. After we graduated college, I visited his new house and we went to a nearby game store that has a big wall of GW models. We both realized we had money now and built up our armies at the end of 8th edition. It's nice when dreams come true.
Battle for Macragge. I can still remember getting it for my 11th birthday. I was blown away
I was there at the start of first edition but then got out of the hobby shortly before second edition, never realising that the whole game would be updated! I then got back into it with the kids in eighth and I’ve continued into ninth.
I remember seeing the 2nd Edition of Warhammer 40k in the Argos catalogue for years in the mid 90s
I ran the tournaments for the US for a number of years. Great times. Lots of drinking.
Jerm was my boss’ boss while I was there before he went to the UK.
I miss it but I can’t possibly do that job anymore. Settling arguments for an extended weekend at cons is a job for the young.
3rd edition is the best because everyone had a current book, but while I haven't tried it yet I'm thinking the 4th Ed rules and the first print codexes of 3rd for the armies (ie use the green guard book or Catachan vs black cover version), only caveat being the revisions for Dark Eldar and I want to say Dark Angels. Yes, Necrona and Tau will be a bit more powerful this way with their "intended for 4th" books, but they already were so it's really not that big of a change to how it was haha.
I started with Rogue Trader, then 2nd edition, then went to uni and couldn’t afford to game so missed 3rd and 4th..restarted with 5th about 8 years after finishing Uni, been playing solidly ever since, every edition
I hate how 40k changed after 7th. Everything from 8th onwards lost the Grimdark feel, and lost any sort of immersion with their "streamlined" rules, rules which don't actually speed up play time (not a problem), but require more than just two books to play and made it more of a child's game than a proper strategy and tactics tabletop game. 7th Edition was actually very streamlined, and the Universal Special Rules helped combat rules bloat. I don't know why everyone was complaing about that in 7th, I feel like it didn't have rules bloat. New units were added in supplements, which could have been included in the next codex, but in principal, all you needed was the core rulebook and the codex of your choice.
Have you actually played 9th, or even 10th??
Sure that was an issue with 8th edition, I mean- you needed your core book, then your codex, the. Your codexes codex, and so on.
But 9th fixed that issue by going mostly digital with the now old 40K, and having that be kept up to date with balance patches, and FAQs.
And though I hate 10th because it got rid of a lot of individual army customization, I still think that it’s rules are superior to 7th edition.
(Though most of my knowledge of 7th edition comes from the Horus Heresy, which is like- 7.5 edition.)
5th was really the last good edition. granted it started to fall apart when they started to release "for 6th" codexes (Necrons, Grey knights, and Dark Eldar i believe). the rules were easy, yet complex. the codexes were full of customization and allowed solid, yet fair rules. granted the customization in 4th was better, but it was a bit more heroish at that time. once 6th came out they just added more shit rules into the game, each edition getting worse. a few 6th ed rules were nice like the change to power weapons, but most new rules were awful.
Yep. 5th was the best.
My family/friends recently went back to fifth, and it’s fantastic. I played mostly seventh in my teens, and then eighth, and while I enjoyed 8th a lot more for feeling less choked on rules, it was incredibly lethal and lost a lot of the old game’s flavor. Four games in and fifth edition has been a blast. Easily the most fun I’ve had with the game.
Born in 1972, I first started with the 1st edition rulebook. Plus the great Realms of Chaos double volume. I lived through the GW era of the 80s-90s. Then it got too expensive. Still love and follow the Lore, though, and Im a big fan of the Necrons.
Had 2nd edition. Loved the game so much. When Tyranids got their own Codex I was blown away. Before that there were carnifex, Tyranid warrior and genestealers. Suddenly we had lictors, zenomorphs and hive tyrants with all sorts of wonderful upgrades. Wish I’d played the Epic 40k Tyranid army back then too.
Born in 1985, the 2nd. Edition from 1993 will always be my most fondable memory. Today those older plastic models are blend and boring, but the metal models still rock today and im looking for them on the second hand market.
I was a player for almost all for 3rd edition.
Seeing this recap just makes me want to find another 3rd edition player, or see if I can find a One Page Rules group to play with.
10:45 GW still has a tiny handful of metal models for sale on the site store.
I got in it in the 4th edition. I didnt realise how few are the minis in the maccrage box compared to the 5th edition boxset.
Good to see the history of the game though, thank you for your videos
What a great video! I still have the Rogue Trader book to this day. My school friends and I played up until the mid 90s. After that we didn’t play again. We never got the second or third editions. I painted the miniatures instead for many years after though. So this video was a great walk down memory lane for memories that I don’t have 😂
I got into 40K with Kidhammer, a simplified ruleset based off of 3rd or 4th edition that my dad made, and then got back into 40K with 8th edition recently, since I finally enjoy painting models. We still use simplified rules, using only the strategems in the base rulebook, and my dad will make up datasheets for old models frequently, so we can use models like Squats and weird old robots.
Excellent video! I played 40k from Rogue Trader and finally quit at 5th ed and never came back. I really like your description of the brain bloat concept, and 40k on the outside these days looks to be one of the worst offenders of this.
I used to play 3rd edition and came back to the game recently the sheer rules bloat of 9th is infuriating.
I started on 2nd edition. I remember a colleague of my mother gave me his old 1st edition armies as a gift which was very nice. His models were very dark, brilliantly painted and clearly more mature than my colourful and trashy paint jobs. Haven't played in 20 years but still have almost all my figures. I pull them out now and again for nostalgia.
2nd edition brings back memories, seeing those boxes and books. The Eldar one brings back memories, but when I got that Chaos one I was so happy. Nice little nostalgic trip 🙂
Absolutely love this video and covering this type of content. I got a brief introduction in 3rd ed but recently picked back up in 9th.
I'd love to see an ecosystem history video done in this style. Ie. How does forgeworld, the old spacehulk game, black library, white dwarf, etc all fit together
Great to see it laid out. I've played on and off for 20 years and I didn't even know I missed some editions!
This is great. Last time I played was right before 3rd edition came out. Never really realised there had been so much of a change.