Yo TG your audio on this vid is way too low. Needed headphones on this 1. Much love tho! keep pushin forward yo! You and Virhtue (not the others who profit solely on made up bullsh**) be spittin facts! Remind me of the golden era of Swag&Seth. Definitely a fresh revival for the community! God Speed
Whats with the offbrand walmart discount kermit in thor's armor we keep seeing? I thought this was about the naruto series not offbrand walmart kermit!
It's a shame that Sasuke never used his armored Susanoo after the Zetsu skirmish. It's so ominous and menacing. I want to see him to use it in the war but no, Sasuke sticks to his humanoid Susanoo
It's legit just stronger than the one that shoots arrows, and against Obito it wouldn't have benefited him. I do agree the design is masterclass and completely underutilized.
This man was able to tank a Burning Ash Jutsu from an alive Madara and didn't even use Suusano while Sage Mode Naruto got blown back. He was able to react to SOSP Obito and match KCM Naruto. EMS Sasuke is slept on. Please make a video on how strong would Indra be if he got half of Hagaromo's powers
@@tobi2992 Okay and? That kind of shit is expected of Naruto, he's the main character. Him fighting around the battlefield and fighting the whole day isn't as impressive as Sasuke considering he has a whole ass tailed beast to back him up while Sasuke is relying on his own powers (with a little help from here and there). But again, Sasuke is the one who reacted to SOSP Obito and saved Naruto's life.
@@braveneworldbetalfa5209and it was only sage mode Naruto too. Not bijuu sage mode. They compare sage mode naruto to ems sasuke lol. Compare him with bijuu sage mode naruto instead.
Sasuke is one of, if not my favorite character in Naruto. Thanks for the vid TG. EMS Sasuke’s storm ultimate goes crazy too. Bro also got the quotables “These eyes see the darkness quite well”
@@Necromancer4267 he was handing compliments and insults around,that dude likes the sounds of his own voice,i think sasuke being the reincarnation of indra is probably a bigger factor lol
By "choku tomoe straight pattern" Madara was likely referring to the EMS because both him and sasuke got a more straight pattern after getting EMS. Especially madara since his MS pattern is really round.
Yeah I actually had a lore section added for that, discussing the different comma's and how that relates to Madara/Sasuke now maybe I'm thinking I should have left that in LMAO
Yo TG, great to see that you finally made this video,i remember last year we were discussing it in the comments. Really good stuff too. Top tier, in depth analysis. Some minor takes regarding some of the points raised: - The reason Itachi could move while Sasuke couldn't during Kabuto's White Rage attack is because he was standing a bit behind Sasuke while the latter was tanking the full brunt of the attack. In addition to being a reanimation with dulled pain receptors (as per Madara). - 12:00 It's not an anti-feat for Sasuke because he wasn't the target of the attack, so there was no reason for him to react. Itachi made a mistake here by misreading Kabuto's intentions, which he himself admits. It's strange that this situation is used as an argument against Sasuke. - Sasuke's performance vs Kabuto is severely underrated. He and Itachi both saved each other 3 times. Itachi seemed more relevant to the fight because of Izanami and the strategy he came up with to which Sasuke had to adapt his otherwise super-aggressive style, but that doesn't tell us much about power levels. - Great points regarding Sage Mode/Curse Mark and how their effects get absurdly misrepresented. Even just on a common sense level, nothing in the manga implies that BSM Naruto suddenly became 10 times stronger than BM Naruto and the same goes for Senjutsu Susano'o. Or that CS2 Hebi Sasuke is 10 times stronger than base Hebi Sasuke. It clearly has diminishing effects the stronger the user is. - The Kyuubi cloak cope just needs to die off. In addition to your arguments, Sasuke actually lost it mid fight with zero effects on his performance. And like you said, it makes no sense mathematically because you get absurd stuff like V3 Susano'o + Cope Cloak = KCM2 Avatar, which is actually the equivalent of thousands of such cloaks.So V3 Susano'o = thousands of cloaks but also V3 Susano'o + 1 cloak = BM Avatar. It's completely absurd. In conclusion, the biggest problem is that fans ignore the fact that Susano'o develops in stages and that Sasuke was very much still developing while Naruto had already reached his peak with B(S)M. This is something even Orochimaru states word for word. But according to some people The Cope Cloak and Juugo's budget SM are responsible for everything EMS Sasuke achieved.
Appreciate that my MAN and yeah I agree with a lot here. People just aren't grasping a lot of narratives, growth, or overestimating the "buffs" sasuke gets
Excellent vid! EMS Sasuke is the most slept on character I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen people say that he would lose to pain lmao. I’ve been trying to argue that he is underrated for the longest
One of your best videos people underrate ems sasuke a lot people don’t like it when you say peak ems sasuke is relative to kcm 2 sage mode naruto and has the perfect susanoo even though it’s true keep up the great work
Yeah the writing implies that they are around similar strengths which each of their power ups. SM naruto is relative to ms sasuke. Kcm is slightly above that then Naruto gets kcm2 and sasuke gets his perfect susanoo. Sasuke couldn’t believe how much chakra he was controlling lol
I always took the gemstone bubble on the susanoo's forehead to be an indicator of a perfected one. All the other versions have the user floating in the torso from what i can tell
Hey TG. Didn't get to hit you with a wall of text for this one because you dropped it the day I went on vacation. I'm not sure how the algorithm works exactly, but I wanted to make sure to give this video a comment and a like because you had been talking about it for like a full year. Normally I would dissect the video a bit, provide some additional details about things that might have been left out, and offers some counter points for inaccuracies or interpretations that are a little far out, but not this time. It was a treat to get to hear you go on about your guy for the hour. The core argument of "EMS Sasuke needs to be tiered differently depending on which part of the War Arc you're talking about." is solid and it's odd that the community doesn't already do it considering how hair splitting they are over Chuunin Exams versions of character. If I had to guess, it's because of all the glaring flaws with the War Arc on top of just how long it is. The War is 215 chapters and Part 2 until the War is 239 chapters. You scratch the surface of this point as well during the Acclimated and Ultimate EMS sections of the video and I think it's also a reason why the different tiering doesn't happen, is that it is generally annoying to attempt to scale any character during that section of the series due to Naruto's influence on them being simultaneously arbitrary and unquantifiable between each chapter and how much being an Edo Tensei actually matters being similarly tricky to navigate. You mentioned wanting to a dedicated video about all the problems with power scaling Naruto, and that probably needs to be a major section of that video. Anyway, there's the wall of text I promised in stream. This is one of my favorite videos from you and I hope you're satisfied with how it turned out too.
Hey! I just got back from a trip myself appreciate the comment and glad you enjoyed! Yeah it was more of a passion vid for me so I was glad everyone actually loved it.
Great video bro. For the longest I always thought EMS Sasuke was one of the most overrated characters in the war arc but after seeing this he’s lowkey kinda underrated lol. Still a Madara selfie stick victim though LOL 🤳🏾
Great video! Got a video suggestion I think could be interesting. Chunnin exams matchups randomized. Put each fighter in a name spinner and talk about fights we never got to see.
i never thought about the series as anything more than a regular shonen. the lore that powerscalers help make sense of makes the series so much more interesting. great vid
TG you went off on this on bro! You know I've been waiting on this video for damn near a year haha! Of course, I agree as these are things I've had to comment on continuously to the point I made it my username profile a couple years back. Now on to the video. I also want to say THANK YOU and your translator. I'm tired of people going by these faulty translations. As someone who knows Japanese myself, it's refreshing to see the actual Japanese text. As you and your translator know, sometimes Japanese doesn't directly translate in English so noting that too is a big help in interpreting a panel/scene These are some points I think could've also been added into the video and I would like to know yours (and everyone's) opinions on it. The character growth of Sasuke in EMS is I think great even though people don't fully understand it. It's cause the fruits of this character growth and ideals is fully realized in the Final Valley once he's obtained his six paths power to make that fight truly a fight for ideals not just power. But I digress, here are the points: - It is noted by the "original" white zetsu watching over Sasuke that he actually took off his bandages quite early. Meaning that even though with the bandages on he's noted quite stronger than when he fought Danzo then Kakashi, that had he waited a lot of his lower feats in the war would've just been past him. Even still, like you said when he first awakens his EMS he's automatically superior to his Kage Summit version - Me personally, the points you listed out are the exact reasons that Sage Kabuto is just a tier below initial (or unmastered) EMS Sasuke and Itachi. Not to mention Kabuto has the terrain advantage that caters to his fighting style. I almost don't even want to include any feats that happen after the izanami is initially casted before the second loop to actually start the jutsu cause at that point anything that happened was already a checkmate for Itachi. So yeah I don't even think that he scales to them - Note too relevant but I would say "Base" Byakugou is relative to "Base" EMS and Mastered KCM given the narrative, what's stated in the databook and the next couple scenes with the New Threeway Deadlock - With the Juubito fight, there's a couple things that I think are important to note too. First is, the chakra that everyone is getting is not just Naruto & his Kurama, but a combination of Naruto's, Minato's and BOTH HALVES of Kurama. The shinobi alliance notice it. Clone Hashirama's quote is in reference to the combination of all of there chakra being almost as much as his and he notices it. Bee and Gyuki also notices it. Still for Sasuke to not think that chakra would do much is impressive - I do sorta disagree on the senjutsu amps that Naruto and Sasuke gets. With Sasuke, this in no way powers his EMS but just his susano'o. I also do think that Bijuu Sage Naruto is stronger than Mastered KCM2 by a bit to the point that KCM2 Minato is considered strong support when just prior they are implied just equal. Sage Mode is just furthering boosting Naruto's KCM2 powers so there has to be a definitive amp. I think this also makes EMS Sasuke on his own more impressive especially with my next point - During the Sage Majestic Attire, yeah Bijuu Sage Naruto is AMPED. He actually takes pretty much all of the Kurama chakra in Minato for the time being to the point that Minato goes out of KCM. We know that Majestic attire is perfect susano'o armor so EMS Sasuke powers up on his own and Naruto powers up via outside source. I think they are just blatant equals bare minimum with this last point potentially making Sasuke the stronger fighter
I like a lot of this I think the senjutsu stuff was maybe misinterpreted, I wasn't arguing it wasn't an Amp. I was arguing the AMP it provides is not very substantial compared to their FP avatars respectfully & would not put them tiers above themselves without the amps. Glad you enjoyed the vid man!
@@ThunderGodTG I guess I'm more in the camp that EMS Sasuke at his full capabilities is just equal to Bijuu Sage Naruto (like you). But I think he's just stronger than Mastered KCM2 Naruto by a bit. I think for Naruto it's a pretty good amp just knowing what sage mode can provide as a boost to all stats and overall power. For Sasuke though I agree his senjutsu amp isn't substantial and it literally can't be cause he shows a stronger form right after it. With the tiers, I guess you're right although it's tough cause the only ones stronger than say Mastered KCM2 (pre-The Last) is Edo & Alive Hashirama, Madara, 8th Gate Guy and any Six Paths/Otsutsuki with Rinnegan Obito and KCM2 Minato relative. Slap on sage mode to make it Bijuu Sage Mode and the ones stronger than him are still the same with I believe him stronger than Obito and Minato by a bit and equal to EMS. So in that sense, he wouldn't be tiers above I agree but I think it's enough to where he's not relative to those that are seen relative to his Mastered KCM2 version.
Sasuke is underrated AND UNDERPOWERED for plot reason. Kurama stated that BASE HEBI SASUKE has comparable chakra and visual prowess to EMS MADARA. Meaning that he can put the FULL KURAMA under genjutsu and controlling him with BASIC THREE TOMOE SHARINGAN and later on with the EMS he could use EFFORTELESLY the freaking Perfect Susanoo. Adding amaterasu and kagutsuchi he could probabily overpower mid diff the senjutsu mokujin and losing badly to the freaking shinsuusenju.
@stefanocremonini2656 Well, Nine tails never really said Hebi Sasuke's chakra is to comparable to Madara. He said Sasuke's chakra is more sinister dark chakra than him like Madara. Which implied Sasuke's future potential that he could match Madara's power eventually. Orochimaru stated kind of same thing about Sasuke in part 1. The special thing about Sasuke is that he not only has Sharingan, but also has powerful chakra that Madara and Hashirama had. Which makes Sasuke doujutsu even stronger.
Fantastic video ThunderGod/TG, since I've been introduced to you since Six's Sannin vs Pain video I have really enjoyed your content for showing me different perspectives that I've never even thought about. With all that said, I hate to inform you that I have talked to someone who believes EMS Madara didn't have the Perfect Susanoo, that his Armored Susanoo was wrapped around Kurama, and that the Perfect Susanoo is only granted by the Rinnegan. Edit: If you see this TG what do you think is stronger, the walking Human Susanoo or the Armored Susanoo, I always assumed the walking one, and it might be a stupid question, but it's confused me for the longest time.
Appreciate it! Really great to hear that I actually am made aware of that and just disagree EMS Madara literally manifests it alone in the fight with Hashirama, completely seperate of the Kyuubi so to just say otherwise is VERY weird to me.
Thanks again for speaking the truth. There’s too many that think sasuke isn’t relative to naruto every step of the way in terms of power. And too many thing nature energy and some power ups are multipliers when they are most likely just flat power ups. They only feel like multipliers because the person that got amped was weak enough for that flat increase to make them several times stronger. At least that’s what I’ve been thinking
My man ✊🏻 and that’s precisely what I was saying they’re MUCH more of a blatant power of up for weaker individuals. Sasuke quite literally outgrows his curse mark through just hatred amps people just don’t understand for late war arc characters they’re not that big of a buff.
Typing this before I watch it. Im glad someones making a dedicated video about EMS Sasuke and respecting him more. I always got annoyed when people like Seth and Swag seem to downplay Sasuke. I honestly think he's KCM2 - KCM2 Sage mode (its a stretch but yeah.). Niceee
id disagree that he was on the level of kcm2 with sage mode, but yea i felt like it was strongly implied that at least his combat and reaction speed was kcm 2 level, and his amaterasu was threatening to a full juubi so its not like he cant do damage
Only point I really disagree with is the idea that Obito one shotting Naruto and Sasuke's avatars making them relative in some way. Like... I can one shot an ant and a bird, but that doesn't mean that an ant has relative durability to a bird, it just means that I'm overwhelmingly stronger than both of them. Love your videos man, appreciate you questioning the status quo of the powerscaling even if I disagree sometimes.
Nah no worries broski the main point there is that he legit threw them down with similar force and neither was worse for wear. You can’t body an ant and a bird with the same amount force the bird would def require more. Otherwise here you argue here he arbitrarily held back on Sasuke specifically which makes no zense
@ThunderGodTG Yeah for sure, I was gonna say I don't think that's what you meant, it might have just been the way it was communicated that made it sound like a false equivalency. I agree though, Sasuke wasn't turned to paste so while it doesn't necessarily imply relativity, you do make a good point that it does *at least* imply they aren't worlds apart in power at this point, which I 100% agree with, the downplay is wild for Sasuke. I also think they are pretty close at this point in the narrative, I just wanted to clarify what you meant there because I felt like the point was a little muddy Thanks for the reply man 👍 I've enjoyed being in this community the last few months 🫡
Yeah no worries at all my man & that's my main point dudes are acting like it's a night and day difference when Sasuke is just as relevant in that fight. That was just maybe some poor wording on my part.
Dude this is peak!!! Btw I have a interesting request for you, can you do beginning of shippuden Naruto(no nine tails amp) vs beginning of shippuden sakura if not then could you do adult sakura(boruto era) vs edo itachi
36:00, "it's like arguing madara didn't have perfect susanoo... you would never argue that" little do you know, there are actually i***ts that would argue that
I actually understand the arguments for it, I’ve talked with some people and it’s basically that EMS Madara only has the True Form Susano’o which is what wraps around the Kyuubi but, Madara himself very blatantly states while in the P.S that Hashirama was the only one to stop it/him along with him confirming to Onoki he did have it even while alive.
What a really good and well thought out video. Unfortunately for you I hate Sasuke so he’s a Sage Kabuto victim. Jk, one of the most interesting things about Sasuke you did touch on was the development of his character coincided with his eyes. He goes form directing his hatred to his brother, to the elders and then the village, to finally turning that back on himself and combining all his influences to redirect the worlds hatred onto himself. It’s a very interesting character development that you do not see often in Shounen. So it sucks to see him getting simplified into being “emo”. Imo he’s the best and most consistently written character in the entire manga.
I'm glad TG pointed out the curse mark is nto a straight 10x amp like other creators seem to regurgitate without thinking. EMS Sasuke is not 10x weaker than Naruto lol. TG the best scaler rn
I actually wonder how would late war arc EMS Sasuke fare against the entire Akatsuki. Can he beat all of them at the same time or is OM Obito still stronger than him?
This is a good question the war arc power scaling is so rapid and sasuke barely spends time with each new form so we don’t really get a good feel for his limits > like yea madara bodied him but it’s madara sasuke pretty much dosent fight anyone else other than madara Kabuto (with itachi) & obito (with naruto) I’d say he’s good until he gets to kisame then it’s high diff or L from then on out. Itachi prob dubbing him Nagato is cracked (please understand) Kisame could win somehow via samehada but not likely
Neither He nor Kcm2 Naruto is beating all Akatsuki at the same time. The ones they would have trouble is the Top 3. Pain goes down when they understand the whole dynamic. Pain could win if he can absorb things like Susano arrow and stuff. Itachi is tough and his Hax prevails. MS Sasuke is already more powerful than OM obito. Obito just has that broken hax.
I never get why Sasuke and Itachi should be containing against Kabuto, he has Orochimaru's power plus sage mode plus some more kekei genkai minus the genjutsu weakness. He has the Orochi sub to avoid Totsuka or amaterasu (both should know this since Sasuke used it to avoid Itachi's amaterasu), he can tank with the sage mode durability, Kimimaro's bones and melt like Suigetsu, and can regenerate like he used to do, like Orochimaru could or like Karin can and avoid damage with his sage mode senses (He casually avoided one of Sasuke's fastest attacks, if not the fastest) . Kabuto is just so strong, but using gigantic mechas or turning on fire inside the cave its just a bad idea. Join me and spread the word of respect on Kabugoat's name.
Fenomenal video, you're pretty much rewriting Naruto powerscaling meta and it seems like this is the most consistent one so far, this kind of topic is pretty interesting as there are many characters that improve over the duration of the war arc which for many people is not as blatant. Main contender would propably be Kakashi, but you can also fit Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke info this category, killer bee's or Sakura's power also does not seem to stay stagnant
Ems sasuke is really strong I don't know if he was able to obtain perfect susano'o or not since we officially saw his perfect susano'o when he had the rennegan. Kcm 2 + sage mode to me will always rank slightly above ems sasuke because of Naruto sharing the kyuubi chakra with thousands of shinobi alliance and fight alongside sasuke at the same time against ten tails juubito.Sasuke might be relative to Naruto but I don't know if he would be able to deal with what Naruto can do e.g like onslaught of giant tailed beast bombs and I don't know if he would have delt with the ten tails tailed beast bomb like kurama avatar did but I know he would be able to survive the ten tails cataclysm.
Do you think it would be worth making a video on how much stronger Sasuke got from the time he fought Naruto on the hospital roof to their first final valley fight ? Like the amp he got in the coffin.
So if you and Naruto fight who would win? Sasuke: If Naruto had the full bijuu mode under control with sage mode he might cause me a little trouble. Would you lose? Sasuke: Nah, I'd win.
I gotta say I Don't think that EMS Sasuke is capable of fully Forming the Perfect Susano'o by himself. For one, him pulling it out once he had the Rinnesharingan was still treated as a big deal, so it would feel a bit weird if he could just do it already. And we do know that in Naruto, teamwork can actually increase the effectiveness of one's abilities as stated for the Sannin, or Ay and Bee with their double Lariat. So my take on the topic is that Sasuke is already on the verge of Achieving the Perfect Susano'o but he can't form the entire Avatar by himself. So that it's basically able to achieve the same defensive and offensive capabilities as a Perfect Susano'o, but it needs the Ninetails Avatar to be formed.
I think that's fair my only contention is that even with Rinnegan Sasuke the form doesn't change at all with the Kyuubi Susano'o so it just seems weird to say one version has it when the other doesn't. Kishimoto also just drops it in one panel, you could potentially say he gained the ability to fly with it or was able to evolve it further to some degree, but he should have the base PS at least imo.
@@ThunderGodTGMadara didn’t have Perfect susanoo in the valley of the end. Both Sasuke and Madara needed the rinnegan for it. And both EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara ‘s armored susanoo manifested shoulder plates and tengu mask only when the kyuubi was making up for their lack of rinnegan.
Madara quite literally showcases the Perfect Susanoo separate from the Kyuubi what are we talking about. Madara also references Hashirama fighting it when he says he was the only one who could stop him when displaying his Max Power.
Final Valley, unless you wanna argue it’s only true for susano’o but even then Madara imply Hashirama has fought it when he whips it out and also confirms he had it when Onoki asks when he held back against him before. The databook also states it comes from the MS so stop this please.
I dont think amaterasu would just kill kabuto if it hits him. He can likely sub out the same way sasuke did in his fight with itachi when he got hit with amaterasu. Other than that lil nitpick fantastic vid
While this is definitely “let’s give Sasuke the best interpretation “ and I don’t agree with some of it I definitely think it’s pretty well done especially explaining the take on the curse mark amp
His Susano'o was boosted by Naruto when they joined. It doesn't make sense to have a full body perfect Susano'o, but to still not have legs on your lower level Susano (and his lower level Susano'o only had legs when boosted by kyuubi chakra) Sasuke being insecure is a major character moment. Receiving a significant chakra buff from his rival is another. There’s a reason we all remembered it that way.
Is it that hard to believe that someone with EMS could use susano with legs? WTF are u on. He didn't even talk about all the chakra Naruto got from Minato before they fought Juubito but no, we only remember when Sasuke go a little cloak🤡
@@cunningfox7838 you're the one claiming all his significant feats was because of Naruto so why won't I involve him. Arguing Sasuke needed kyubi chakra to use susano with legs is beyond insane.
@@elhood4060 no y’all have decided to settle for ambiguous rage amps because there is no explainable answer for Sasukes progression at times besides napping three times for power ups. Got a buff from Naruto and fusion with Orochimarus form of Senjutsu. You have to do mental gymnastics to act like Kishimoto isn’t going to animate the externalization of what those amps provided.
@@cunningfox7838 good point, you can argue he would have been a bit weaker but I don't see any sense in arguing an EMS user needs kurama chakra to use regular susano with legs. Madara was doing it with MS and even no eyes Kakashi and Indara both had perfect susano with just the Ms but Sasuke with EMS having susano with legs is so unbelievable. Did you watch the video? What kind of amp do you think Hashirama is getting from a kyubi cloak? If the cloak is adding 500 to fodders with power levels of 100 of course it'll be significant. Now add 500 to someone who's power levels is 10,000. Or you think Sasuke gets a special cloak?
“Curse mark doesn’t amplify power by ten times” except it does, at least for the sound four, we are told this twice or maybe thrice, I do agree that when it comes to Susano or Kurama or even Hagoromo in the anime using Senjutsu isn’t really a 10x amp
It amplifies the chakra of the users ten times not every stat, this is stated by Jirobo & clarified in the Sakon / Ukon fight. Getting 10x more chakra does not = 10x stronger that’s where chakra control comes in + this is evident via the sound 4 being able to be combated by the Gennin in Base - CM2. Idk why this comment was phrased like this when I clarified it in the vid.
@@ThunderGodTG no? Where does it ever say chakra? Jirobo himself literally says “in this state my power is 10 times greater than it was previously” also the Genin at that point were way above most Genin, consider Sasuke who was stated to be Chunin level by Hayate, and broke through Gaara’s sand by mere punche, the same sand defence that impressed the Chunin and Tokubetsu Jonin running the exams, was considered weak by the sound 4 when they fought him,
Jirobo says he’s 10x stronger which is somewhat vague,however it’s clarified to us in the Sakon / Ukon fight by Kiba that it’s actually a 10x increase in chakra not stats. Ch.203 is where this is clarified if you want to go see. I was just using Genin as a phrase to reference the group not downplay the Sound 4 to clarify. Idk what the rest of this is ngl, Genma & Raido were out of chakra returning from a mission and still forced the sound 4 to go CM2 to beat them, but idk what this has to do with anything.
It’s not really measurable that’s thing about Naruto the amps are huge just not quantifiable, & not every amp boosts jutsu power speed, and AP like SM.
Agree with Most except the Genjutsu Part 💀 Danzo experienced Sasuke's Genjutsu and quite literally classified it as ' Not even close ' to itachi. And we don't even know whether Danzo is talking about Tsukiyomi. Itachi has shown Base Sharingan Genjutsu that is above the likes of MS Sasuke. Like his 30% Chakra clone trapping Kakashi with a base Sharingan in something similar to tsukiyomi. Also, The full extent of Tsukiyomi is unknown and could be very high. The novel says he gave his gf a Lifetime with it. That's leagues above anything Sasuke has shown. Kakashi said itachi could have just killed him using tsukiyomi which Sasuke's Genjutsu was never able to I am not even dignify your " Sakura is relative to Base EMS Sasuke " statement with a Proper response 💀
Bro just missed what I said about that part, I legit mention Obito and by extension Danzo are judging this off what they see not what they know. They see Sasuke’s genjutsu they’re like Itachi’s is > which I do agree with, but not for that reason. I also went out of my way to say why that statement wasn’t true and how I disagree with it lmao so idk if you actually weren’t peeping what I said correctly or what.
@@ThunderGodTG You didn't specify your stand at all. And They may be Judging Sasuke by what they see but they are judging itachi by what they know. 1) it was a death battle. So Sasuke was using the full extent of his power including Genjutsu prowess. No reason to believe he had stronger stuff up his sleeve 2) absolutely no reason to believe thag obito or danzo knew full extent of itachi's capabilities or his limits.
The point of that section was to displace that Sasuke has done something akin to Itachi not that he’s as proficient with it or has an exact replica. I agree with what you’re saying Danzo & Obito have no idea, which lends itself to this. Also using this type of technique also doesn’t aid him in the fight with Danzo as he had to wait out the 10 Minute Timer on Izanagi, using that type of Genjutsu would have awarded him nothing as Danzo would have just passively respawned so it wouldn’t have been useful whereas the subtle Genjutsu was Again I do agree Itachi has better MS genjutsu than Sasuke here but it’s entirely consistent with what’s shown for Sasuke to be rivaling Itachi’s MS entirely with his EMS, the whole novel stuff is inherently contradicted by the fight but is more so predicated on if you actually think the novels are canon. I specified that her “reaching their backs” or being able stand alongside them in battle doesn’t mean she’s on their level. Again idk what you heard, but that’s literally me having a stance.
@@ThunderGodTG and i am disagreeing you on the matter of Sasuke having Genjutsu capacity as itachi. Novels aren't canon. It is classified as that but it a whole other medium. Its the same as considering anime add ons as canon. Its not written by kishimoto so its not a part of Naruto manga. Tsukiyomi is on a whole different lvl. Its not same as normal Genjutsu. And other than the novel part Sasuke has nothing making him close to it. I can agree that ems sasuke has the raw potential to be as good as Sharingan Genjutsu as itachi EXCEPT Tsukiyomi. If he had Genjutsu that strong, He could control danzo him self to deactivate izanagi like Itachi did with Kabuto.
You see the novels being non canon is a different topic. If you feel that way fair enough that’s all you would need to say. The novel feat was just more so pushing the narrative I was pushing in the vid especially with their genjutsu clash, my main premise was that EMS Sasuke would rival Itachi genjutsu wise not MS do that Danzo point is mute since Itachi would have greater genjutsu at that point, also time space genjutsu doesn’t inherently just mean you can mind control every opponent but small micro nitpick. Kabuto was already in the izanami loop and could be mind controlled very easily so again it’s not a 1:1 We can just agree to disagree I got a read on your argument and we ain’t gonna benefit from any more comments back and forth other than time wasted.
a lot of the hatred amps or whatever you're calling it came from juugo's operation on sasuke to save his life vs killer b. he repaired sasuke's organs with cells from his own body, resulting in this freaky nature energy using berserker sasuke which amplified his powers in a way not too dissimilar to that time when orochimaru had a curse mark on sasuke.
Naruto was active in the war for FAR longer than Sasuke was, naruto took on multiple kage or stronger than kage level opponents before fighting juubito. the fact that Sasuke didn’t outshine him blatantly after having one fight where itachi did all the heavy lifting is kind of a red flag imo. Naruto also replenished his chakra during the war lol. And yes naruto had kurama helping him but Sasuke literally had a power that originated from the otsutsuki clan, and his eyes have 0 negative side effects besides feeling pain and bleeding while being used. I’d say those advantages cancel each other out. I mean it’s pretty clear Naruto was superior because they both got half of SO6P chakra at the end of the story but Naruto had to hold back in the final fight in order to get Sasuke back, and that was after he fought kaguya for twice as long as Sasuke did. Fresh Naruto with no fatigue and 100% chakra would have folded Sasuke in a 1v1 at any point after awakening KCM2 and in all forms beyond imo
I agree Naruto was active way more but, Naruto actually had his reserves just recharged over and over by Kurama. At one point even actually stealing all of Minato's Nine Tails Chakra so while he is fighting for longer, the constant influx of chakra that is directly tied to his stamina kept recharging him. Exemplified when he was about to pass out with the most notable fatigue in the series against White Mask Obito and unlinking the seal completly replenished him. So while your right in some aspects, in others I just do not agree.
The Kurama Avatar is durable sure but I don't believe it has the "perfect defense" lore that the Susanoo has, let alone the full-body one. I think that if they were equal the Susanoo should be more durable but it's not
do you have the raw kanji for the statement about EMS sasuke being > edo itachi in ninjutsu + genjutsu? cause the translation im getting is ninjutsu and dojutsu, not genjutsu.
I really wish we knew what that jutsu was that Hashirama gave him. Also, during Sasuke and Itachi's fight, Itachi mentions a new visual jutsu that Madara acquired after obtaining EMS. I want to know what EMS jutsu Madara acquired after gaining the EMS. I was really interested in seeing the jutsu.
Yeah it would have been really nice all we know is that Hashirama gave him some of his chakra and a technique that would bind Madara. Storm Generations implies Madara has some sort of ability to see a little into the future like past what the Sharingan does with its Kinetic Vision
Kabuto is a tier above Itachi and Saskue with his full arsenal.Kabuto with his full arsenal includes all of his edo tensei …….. So if ur gonna say Itachi and Saskue were nerfed ,Kabuto literally had his strongest assets not available for that fight .Imagine Itachi and Saskue fighting sage kabuto with all of the edo from the war ,not even giving him Madara,It’s literally a low diff fight if we want to be fair to everyone and give everyone their arsenal. When doing Orochimaru vs battles ,people give him his edo summonings but never do the same for Kabuto which is not fair.
Edo tensei takes time to set up it’s literally like giving prep time to the characters so the only way to make that fair is to give itachi koto which he can then use to just brainwash kabuto… in a random encounter kabuto does lose with prep he beats virtually everyone
As a reminder naruto has been in the war and fighting a bit longer than sasuke. So tiny nid bits about him being blown back or whatever shouldn’t really matter. Than man also has been exerting more chakra and sharing with the entire alliance. He’s waaay more fatigued than sasuke.
Hot take EMS sasuke is just as strong as EMS madara. The only difference is Madara has a perfect sussano but to be fair madara is in his mid-20s where Sasuke is a teenager. If Sasuke were to train for 10 years, he would be just as strong as madara. Thoughts?
This is an interesting take that should be talked about more ,but In my opinion that would mean Ems sasuke is around alive hashirama level which kinda doesn’t work.
I finally rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe
While i dont fully agree with the glazing, i’ll admit Sasuke is much stronger that i originally put him
That's all I ask of people 🙏🏻 give me a chance 😂
Yo TG your audio on this vid is way too low. Needed headphones on this 1. Much love tho! keep pushin forward yo! You and Virhtue (not the others who profit solely on made up bullsh**) be spittin facts! Remind me of the golden era of Swag&Seth. Definitely a fresh revival for the community! God Speed
Man I ain't even know I thought the audio was fine LMAO, appreciate the love my man!
Whats with the offbrand walmart discount kermit in thor's armor we keep seeing? I thought this was about the naruto series not offbrand walmart kermit!
It's a shame that Sasuke never used his armored Susanoo after the Zetsu skirmish. It's so ominous and menacing. I want to see him to use it in the war but no, Sasuke sticks to his humanoid Susanoo
His humanoid susanoo is stronger so he uses it more obviously.
@@justinarzola4584or maybe because it has legs he uses it more lol
@@poodie3887 Good point, didn't think of that.
@@justinarzola4584Definitely more practical for fights on that scale, but he’s talkin aesthetics and I agree it did looks menacing
It's legit just stronger than the one that shoots arrows, and against Obito it wouldn't have benefited him. I do agree the design is masterclass and completely underutilized.
EMS Sasuke gets too much disrespect in the community, good on you for clearing the facts for the people.
Saw someone arguing he loses to pain, I almost lost my mind 😂
@@elhood4060Well, Without any prior info, it would be hard for him beat pain
People on reddit seem to thing pain arc sm naruto vs ems sasuke is a close extreme diff battle 😂
@@coin4898people just ignore how Naruto pre Kuubi Amp got bodied by pain lol
This man was able to tank a Burning Ash Jutsu from an alive Madara and didn't even use Suusano while Sage Mode Naruto got blown back. He was able to react to SOSP Obito and match KCM Naruto. EMS Sasuke is slept on. Please make a video on how strong would Indra be if he got half of Hagaromo's powers
Indra would supremely broken
dude, naruto has been fighting all day. around the world... DUDE
@@tobi2992 Okay and? That kind of shit is expected of Naruto, he's the main character. Him fighting around the battlefield and fighting the whole day isn't as impressive as Sasuke considering he has a whole ass tailed beast to back him up while Sasuke is relying on his own powers (with a little help from here and there). But again, Sasuke is the one who reacted to SOSP Obito and saved Naruto's life.
madara used his attack only on naruto, not on sasuke pay attention.
@@braveneworldbetalfa5209and it was only sage mode Naruto too. Not bijuu sage mode. They compare sage mode naruto to ems sasuke lol. Compare him with bijuu sage mode naruto instead.
Sasuke is one of, if not my favorite character in Naruto. Thanks for the vid TG. EMS Sasuke’s storm ultimate goes crazy too.
Bro also got the quotables
“These eyes see the darkness quite well”
Bro ong that’s why I had to start the vid with that bro just spitting iconic lines out left and right
Sasuke having a "straight comma" Sharingan is one of the few truly completely unexplained aspects of the series to date.
its probably not that big a deal
Big enough deal for Madara Uchiha to compliment it in the most important battle in Shinobi World History. @@TheBillhs
@@Necromancer4267 he was handing compliments and insults around,that dude likes the sounds of his own voice,i think sasuke being the reincarnation of indra is probably a bigger factor lol
By "choku tomoe straight pattern" Madara was likely referring to the EMS because both him and sasuke got a more straight pattern after getting EMS. Especially madara since his MS pattern is really round.
Yeah I actually had a lore section added for that, discussing the different comma's and how that relates to Madara/Sasuke now maybe I'm thinking I should have left that in LMAO
Dude i seriously commend you. Your videos are super interesting and have kept my love for naruto alive. And the fact that you are so consistent 🔥🔥🔥
My man humbled by the words🙏
Yo TG, great to see that you finally made this video,i remember last year we were discussing it in the comments. Really good stuff too. Top tier, in depth analysis. Some minor takes regarding some of the points raised:
- The reason Itachi could move while Sasuke couldn't during Kabuto's White Rage attack is because he was standing a bit behind Sasuke while the latter was tanking the full brunt of the attack. In addition to being a reanimation with dulled pain receptors (as per Madara).
- 12:00 It's not an anti-feat for Sasuke because he wasn't the target of the attack, so there was no reason for him to react. Itachi made a mistake here by misreading Kabuto's intentions, which he himself admits. It's strange that this situation is used as an argument against Sasuke.
- Sasuke's performance vs Kabuto is severely underrated. He and Itachi both saved each other 3 times. Itachi seemed more relevant to the fight because of Izanami and the strategy he came up with to which Sasuke had to adapt his otherwise super-aggressive style, but that doesn't tell us much about power levels.
- Great points regarding Sage Mode/Curse Mark and how their effects get absurdly misrepresented. Even just on a common sense level, nothing in the manga implies that BSM Naruto suddenly became 10 times stronger than BM Naruto and the same goes for Senjutsu Susano'o. Or that CS2 Hebi Sasuke is 10 times stronger than base Hebi Sasuke. It clearly has diminishing effects the stronger the user is.
- The Kyuubi cloak cope just needs to die off. In addition to your arguments, Sasuke actually lost it mid fight with zero effects on his performance. And like you said, it makes no sense mathematically because you get absurd stuff like V3 Susano'o + Cope Cloak = KCM2 Avatar, which is actually the equivalent of thousands of such cloaks.So V3 Susano'o = thousands of cloaks but also V3 Susano'o + 1 cloak = BM Avatar. It's completely absurd.
In conclusion, the biggest problem is that fans ignore the fact that Susano'o develops in stages and that Sasuke was very much still developing while Naruto had already reached his peak with B(S)M. This is something even Orochimaru states word for word. But according to some people The Cope Cloak and Juugo's budget SM are responsible for everything EMS Sasuke achieved.
Appreciate that my MAN and yeah I agree with a lot here. People just aren't grasping a lot of narratives, growth, or overestimating the "buffs" sasuke gets
That feeling when u go back to a video 9 months later cause u remember how fire the video was
Excellent vid! EMS Sasuke is the most slept on character I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen people say that he would lose to pain lmao. I’ve been trying to argue that he is underrated for the longest
Nah him losing to Pain is an unbelievably ass take
One of your best videos people underrate ems sasuke a lot people don’t like it when you say peak ems sasuke is relative to kcm 2 sage mode naruto and has the perfect susanoo even though it’s true keep up the great work
Hey I appreciate that!
Yeah the writing implies that they are around similar strengths which each of their power ups. SM naruto is relative to ms sasuke. Kcm is slightly above that then Naruto gets kcm2 and sasuke gets his perfect susanoo. Sasuke couldn’t believe how much chakra he was controlling lol
I always took the gemstone bubble on the susanoo's forehead to be an indicator of a perfected one. All the other versions have the user floating in the torso from what i can tell
Yessssirrr my fourth favorite character
glad u finally uploaded
Strong enough to NOT go blind!
Best comment
W
I loved this
Isn't that the point of EMS...
@@edwinoliveros4863indeed it is lol
Hey TG. Didn't get to hit you with a wall of text for this one because you dropped it the day I went on vacation. I'm not sure how the algorithm works exactly, but I wanted to make sure to give this video a comment and a like because you had been talking about it for like a full year. Normally I would dissect the video a bit, provide some additional details about things that might have been left out, and offers some counter points for inaccuracies or interpretations that are a little far out, but not this time. It was a treat to get to hear you go on about your guy for the hour. The core argument of "EMS Sasuke needs to be tiered differently depending on which part of the War Arc you're talking about." is solid and it's odd that the community doesn't already do it considering how hair splitting they are over Chuunin Exams versions of character. If I had to guess, it's because of all the glaring flaws with the War Arc on top of just how long it is. The War is 215 chapters and Part 2 until the War is 239 chapters. You scratch the surface of this point as well during the Acclimated and Ultimate EMS sections of the video and I think it's also a reason why the different tiering doesn't happen, is that it is generally annoying to attempt to scale any character during that section of the series due to Naruto's influence on them being simultaneously arbitrary and unquantifiable between each chapter and how much being an Edo Tensei actually matters being similarly tricky to navigate. You mentioned wanting to a dedicated video about all the problems with power scaling Naruto, and that probably needs to be a major section of that video. Anyway, there's the wall of text I promised in stream. This is one of my favorite videos from you and I hope you're satisfied with how it turned out too.
Hey! I just got back from a trip myself appreciate the comment and glad you enjoyed! Yeah it was more of a passion vid for me so I was glad everyone actually loved it.
Great video bro. For the longest I always thought EMS Sasuke was one of the most overrated characters in the war arc but after seeing this he’s lowkey kinda underrated lol. Still a Madara selfie stick victim though LOL 🤳🏾
LMAO, Appreciate it bro!
Been waiting for this video🔥🔥 the editing quality went up too
the most anticipated Naruto video of 2024
Great video! Got a video suggestion I think could be interesting. Chunnin exams matchups randomized. Put each fighter in a name spinner and talk about fights we never got to see.
I actually like this a lot!
bro upgraded from EMS to rinnegan in the span of a couple hours
This is genuinely looking good.
i never thought about the series as anything more than a regular shonen. the lore that powerscalers help make sense of makes the series so much more interesting. great vid
My man appreciate it! 🙏🏻
TG you went off on this on bro! You know I've been waiting on this video for damn near a year haha! Of course, I agree as these are things I've had to comment on continuously to the point I made it my username profile a couple years back. Now on to the video. I also want to say THANK YOU and your translator. I'm tired of people going by these faulty translations. As someone who knows Japanese myself, it's refreshing to see the actual Japanese text. As you and your translator know, sometimes Japanese doesn't directly translate in English so noting that too is a big help in interpreting a panel/scene
These are some points I think could've also been added into the video and I would like to know yours (and everyone's) opinions on it. The character growth of Sasuke in EMS is I think great even though people don't fully understand it. It's cause the fruits of this character growth and ideals is fully realized in the Final Valley once he's obtained his six paths power to make that fight truly a fight for ideals not just power. But I digress, here are the points:
- It is noted by the "original" white zetsu watching over Sasuke that he actually took off his bandages quite early. Meaning that even though with the bandages on he's noted quite stronger than when he fought Danzo then Kakashi, that had he waited a lot of his lower feats in the war would've just been past him. Even still, like you said when he first awakens his EMS he's automatically superior to his Kage Summit version
- Me personally, the points you listed out are the exact reasons that Sage Kabuto is just a tier below initial (or unmastered) EMS Sasuke and Itachi. Not to mention Kabuto has the terrain advantage that caters to his fighting style. I almost don't even want to include any feats that happen after the izanami is initially casted before the second loop to actually start the jutsu cause at that point anything that happened was already a checkmate for Itachi. So yeah I don't even think that he scales to them
- Note too relevant but I would say "Base" Byakugou is relative to "Base" EMS and Mastered KCM given the narrative, what's stated in the databook and the next couple scenes with the New Threeway Deadlock
- With the Juubito fight, there's a couple things that I think are important to note too. First is, the chakra that everyone is getting is not just Naruto & his Kurama, but a combination of Naruto's, Minato's and BOTH HALVES of Kurama. The shinobi alliance notice it. Clone Hashirama's quote is in reference to the combination of all of there chakra being almost as much as his and he notices it. Bee and Gyuki also notices it. Still for Sasuke to not think that chakra would do much is impressive
- I do sorta disagree on the senjutsu amps that Naruto and Sasuke gets. With Sasuke, this in no way powers his EMS but just his susano'o. I also do think that Bijuu Sage Naruto is stronger than Mastered KCM2 by a bit to the point that KCM2 Minato is considered strong support when just prior they are implied just equal. Sage Mode is just furthering boosting Naruto's KCM2 powers so there has to be a definitive amp. I think this also makes EMS Sasuke on his own more impressive especially with my next point
- During the Sage Majestic Attire, yeah Bijuu Sage Naruto is AMPED. He actually takes pretty much all of the Kurama chakra in Minato for the time being to the point that Minato goes out of KCM. We know that Majestic attire is perfect susano'o armor so EMS Sasuke powers up on his own and Naruto powers up via outside source. I think they are just blatant equals bare minimum with this last point potentially making Sasuke the stronger fighter
I like a lot of this I think the senjutsu stuff was maybe misinterpreted, I wasn't arguing it wasn't an Amp. I was arguing the AMP it provides is not very substantial compared to their FP avatars respectfully & would not put them tiers above themselves without the amps.
Glad you enjoyed the vid man!
@@ThunderGodTG I guess I'm more in the camp that EMS Sasuke at his full capabilities is just equal to Bijuu Sage Naruto (like you). But I think he's just stronger than Mastered KCM2 Naruto by a bit. I think for Naruto it's a pretty good amp just knowing what sage mode can provide as a boost to all stats and overall power. For Sasuke though I agree his senjutsu amp isn't substantial and it literally can't be cause he shows a stronger form right after it.
With the tiers, I guess you're right although it's tough cause the only ones stronger than say Mastered KCM2 (pre-The Last) is Edo & Alive Hashirama, Madara, 8th Gate Guy and any Six Paths/Otsutsuki with Rinnegan Obito and KCM2 Minato relative. Slap on sage mode to make it Bijuu Sage Mode and the ones stronger than him are still the same with I believe him stronger than Obito and Minato by a bit and equal to EMS. So in that sense, he wouldn't be tiers above I agree but I think it's enough to where he's not relative to those that are seen relative to his Mastered KCM2 version.
You are truly my favorite frog. Thank you for supporting the 🐐
Bro seeing other frogs I’m betrayed
TG To be honest EMS Sasuke is pretty underrated in terms of Power and just in general.
Sasuke is underrated AND UNDERPOWERED for plot reason.
Kurama stated that BASE HEBI SASUKE has comparable chakra and visual prowess to EMS MADARA.
Meaning that he can put the FULL KURAMA under genjutsu and controlling him with BASIC THREE TOMOE SHARINGAN and later on with the EMS he could use EFFORTELESLY the freaking Perfect Susanoo.
Adding amaterasu and kagutsuchi he could probabily overpower mid diff the senjutsu mokujin and losing badly to the freaking shinsuusenju.
Can you believe some people actually think he lost to Deidara but survived with plot armor??
@musamanhique6601 Yeah and they are called Sasuke hater "girls" 😂.
@stefanocremonini2656 Well, Nine tails never really said Hebi Sasuke's chakra is to comparable to Madara. He said Sasuke's chakra is more sinister dark chakra than him like Madara. Which implied Sasuke's future potential that he could match Madara's power eventually. Orochimaru stated kind of same thing about Sasuke in part 1. The special thing about Sasuke is that he not only has Sharingan, but also has powerful chakra that Madara and Hashirama had. Which makes Sasuke doujutsu even stronger.
Fantastic video ThunderGod/TG, since I've been introduced to you since Six's Sannin vs Pain video I have really enjoyed your content for showing me different perspectives that I've never even thought about.
With all that said, I hate to inform you that I have talked to someone who believes EMS Madara didn't have the Perfect Susanoo, that his Armored Susanoo was wrapped around Kurama, and that the Perfect Susanoo is only granted by the Rinnegan.
Edit: If you see this TG what do you think is stronger, the walking Human Susanoo or the Armored Susanoo, I always assumed the walking one, and it might be a stupid question, but it's confused me for the longest time.
Appreciate it! Really great to hear that I actually am made aware of that and just disagree EMS Madara literally manifests it alone in the fight with Hashirama, completely seperate of the Kyuubi so to just say otherwise is VERY weird to me.
@@ThunderGodTG Keep it up king!!!
Thanks again for speaking the truth. There’s too many that think sasuke isn’t relative to naruto every step of the way in terms of power.
And too many thing nature energy and some power ups are multipliers when they are most likely just flat power ups. They only feel like multipliers because the person that got amped was weak enough for that flat increase to make them several times stronger. At least that’s what I’ve been thinking
My man ✊🏻 and that’s precisely what I was saying they’re MUCH more of a blatant power of up for weaker individuals. Sasuke quite literally outgrows his curse mark through just hatred amps people just don’t understand for late war arc characters they’re not that big of a buff.
5:45 The sus reasoning took me out😭🤣🤣😂💯
LMAOOO
Couldn’t kill him but he could swallow him whole 😳
@@hobbyhorse5848 buddy was trippin😭🤣💀🤦🏾♂️
Clicked on this vid so fast, I know you’re about to go crazy🙌
i think learning of itachi's love allowed sasuke to reallocate even more of the hatred he had devoted against itachi now towards konoha
finally people are beginning to give peak EMS Sasuke the credit he deserves
Typing this before I watch it. Im glad someones making a dedicated video about EMS Sasuke and respecting him more. I always got annoyed when people like Seth and Swag seem to downplay Sasuke. I honestly think he's KCM2 - KCM2 Sage mode (its a stretch but yeah.). Niceee
id disagree that he was on the level of kcm2 with sage mode, but yea i felt like it was strongly implied that at least his combat and reaction speed was kcm 2 level, and his amaterasu was threatening to a full juubi so its not like he cant do damage
Let's be real. If Sasuke had the EMS at the Five Kage Summit, then everyone would be dead.
Exactly. He'd also probably beat Bee on his own if he immediately took Itachi's eyes
Sasuke solos
Ohnoki Particle style though.
he has the same sharingan pattern as Indra its not that farfetched
he'd be dead actually because he sucks
Only point I really disagree with is the idea that Obito one shotting Naruto and Sasuke's avatars making them relative in some way.
Like... I can one shot an ant and a bird, but that doesn't mean that an ant has relative durability to a bird, it just means that I'm overwhelmingly stronger than both of them.
Love your videos man, appreciate you questioning the status quo of the powerscaling even if I disagree sometimes.
Bro has never tried punching a bird, huh?
Nah no worries broski the main point there is that he legit threw them down with similar force and neither was worse for wear. You can’t body an ant and a bird with the same amount force the bird would def require more. Otherwise here you argue here he arbitrarily held back on Sasuke specifically which makes no zense
@ThunderGodTG Yeah for sure, I was gonna say I don't think that's what you meant, it might have just been the way it was communicated that made it sound like a false equivalency.
I agree though, Sasuke wasn't turned to paste so while it doesn't necessarily imply relativity, you do make a good point that it does *at least* imply they aren't worlds apart in power at this point, which I 100% agree with, the downplay is wild for Sasuke. I also think they are pretty close at this point in the narrative, I just wanted to clarify what you meant there because I felt like the point was a little muddy
Thanks for the reply man 👍 I've enjoyed being in this community the last few months 🫡
Yeah no worries at all my man & that's my main point dudes are acting like it's a night and day difference when Sasuke is just as relevant in that fight. That was just maybe some poor wording on my part.
I should be studying physics, but this is more important 🙏
nah you gotta study man
My goat STUDY LMAO
As always great vid TG 👍
Dude this is peak!!! Btw I have a interesting request for you, can you do beginning of shippuden Naruto(no nine tails amp) vs beginning of shippuden sakura if not then could you do adult sakura(boruto era) vs edo itachi
36:00, "it's like arguing madara didn't have perfect susanoo... you would never argue that"
little do you know, there are actually i***ts that would argue that
I actually understand the arguments for it, I’ve talked with some people and it’s basically that EMS Madara only has the True Form Susano’o which is what wraps around the Kyuubi but, Madara himself very blatantly states while in the P.S that Hashirama was the only one to stop it/him along with him confirming to Onoki he did have it even while alive.
Thank you for keeping us fed
Great video!
Fire 🔥TG serious on this video
GOAT activity
You're doing God's work with these analysis videos
My man ✊🏻🔥
Its being a little disingenuous for people to say Sasuke wasnt atleast a little nervous when Tobirama flexxed his chakra.
FINALLY! someone who actually knows what's up!
🫡
Thumbnail: The Strongest.
Reality: Got overshadowed by Naruto the whole time once they reunited.
One’s reality is another’s illusion
EMS Sasuke: You’ve Yee-ed your last Haw! 😂
What a really good and well thought out video. Unfortunately for you I hate Sasuke so he’s a Sage Kabuto victim.
Jk, one of the most interesting things about Sasuke you did touch on was the development of his character coincided with his eyes. He goes form directing his hatred to his brother, to the elders and then the village, to finally turning that back on himself and combining all his influences to redirect the worlds hatred onto himself. It’s a very interesting character development that you do not see often in Shounen. So it sucks to see him getting simplified into being “emo”. Imo he’s the best and most consistently written character in the entire manga.
Bro is literally peak fiction I will never understand the hate.
@@ThunderGodTG “Why is Sasuke so upset the village just killed his family” like bro
LMAO it's just trash comprehension idk man
I'm glad TG pointed out the curse mark is nto a straight 10x amp like other creators seem to regurgitate without thinking. EMS Sasuke is not 10x weaker than Naruto lol. TG the best scaler rn
Goated comment fr 🙏🏻
Excellent breakdown!
Now imagine if he actually used his armored Susano'o (probably didn't because Kishimoto felt that humanoid was easier to draw)
I actually wonder how would late war arc EMS Sasuke fare against the entire Akatsuki. Can he beat all of them at the same time or is OM Obito still stronger than him?
EMS probably wins high difficulty
This is a good question the war arc power scaling is so rapid and sasuke barely spends time with each new form so we don’t really get a good feel for his limits > like yea madara bodied him but it’s madara sasuke pretty much dosent fight anyone else other than madara Kabuto (with itachi) & obito (with naruto) I’d say he’s good until he gets to kisame then it’s high diff or L from then on out. Itachi prob dubbing him
Nagato is cracked (please understand)
Kisame could win somehow via samehada but not likely
He beats all individually but I don't think he can solo them combined.
Obito is still stronger and he also definitely cannot take all of them at the same time
Neither He nor Kcm2 Naruto is beating all Akatsuki at the same time.
The ones they would have trouble is the Top 3.
Pain goes down when they understand the whole dynamic. Pain could win if he can absorb things like Susano arrow and stuff.
Itachi is tough and his Hax prevails.
MS Sasuke is already more powerful than OM obito. Obito just has that broken hax.
I never get why Sasuke and Itachi should be containing against Kabuto, he has Orochimaru's power plus sage mode plus some more kekei genkai minus the genjutsu weakness. He has the Orochi sub to avoid Totsuka or amaterasu (both should know this since Sasuke used it to avoid Itachi's amaterasu), he can tank with the sage mode durability, Kimimaro's bones and melt like Suigetsu, and can regenerate like he used to do, like Orochimaru could or like Karin can and avoid damage with his sage mode senses (He casually avoided one of Sasuke's fastest attacks, if not the fastest) . Kabuto is just so strong, but using gigantic mechas or turning on fire inside the cave its just a bad idea.
Join me and spread the word of respect on Kabugoat's name.
Fenomenal video, you're pretty much rewriting Naruto powerscaling meta and it seems like this is the most consistent one so far, this kind of topic is pretty interesting as there are many characters that improve over the duration of the war arc which for many people is not as blatant. Main contender would propably be Kakashi, but you can also fit Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke info this category, killer bee's or Sakura's power also does not seem to stay stagnant
My GOAT Appreciate it! Deadass really do 🔥
This is probably my favorite form of Sasuke after the Final Valley form
Ems sasuke is really strong I don't know if he was able to obtain perfect susano'o or not since we officially saw his perfect susano'o when he had the rennegan. Kcm 2 + sage mode to me will always rank slightly above ems sasuke because of Naruto sharing the kyuubi chakra with thousands of shinobi alliance and fight alongside sasuke at the same time against ten tails juubito.Sasuke might be relative to Naruto but I don't know if he would be able to deal with what Naruto can do e.g like onslaught of giant tailed beast bombs and I don't know if he would have delt with the ten tails tailed beast bomb like kurama avatar did but I know he would be able to survive the ten tails cataclysm.
Do you think it would be worth making a video on how much stronger Sasuke got from the time he fought Naruto on the hospital roof to their first final valley fight ? Like the amp he got in the coffin.
Bro please make an analysis on the final fight. Show theses people sasuke could had won the final fight
So if you and Naruto fight who would win?
Sasuke: If Naruto had the full bijuu mode under control with sage mode he might cause me a little trouble.
Would you lose?
Sasuke: Nah, I'd win.
LMAOOOO
Lol KCM 2 slams
We’re seeing the darkness clearly with these eyes🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
COOK!
Oh nah it’s game❤❤❤❤
I'm a simple man. I see a TG vid. I like comment and like. Another banger fam
I gotta say I Don't think that EMS Sasuke is capable of fully Forming the Perfect Susano'o by himself. For one, him pulling it out once he had the Rinnesharingan was still treated as a big deal, so it would feel a bit weird if he could just do it already. And we do know that in Naruto, teamwork can actually increase the effectiveness of one's abilities as stated for the Sannin, or Ay and Bee with their double Lariat.
So my take on the topic is that Sasuke is already on the verge of Achieving the Perfect Susano'o but he can't form the entire Avatar by himself. So that it's basically able to achieve the same defensive and offensive capabilities as a Perfect Susano'o, but it needs the Ninetails Avatar to be formed.
I think that's fair my only contention is that even with Rinnegan Sasuke the form doesn't change at all with the Kyuubi Susano'o so it just seems weird to say one version has it when the other doesn't. Kishimoto also just drops it in one panel, you could potentially say he gained the ability to fly with it or was able to evolve it further to some degree, but he should have the base PS at least imo.
@@ThunderGodTGMadara didn’t have Perfect susanoo in the valley of the end.
Both Sasuke and Madara needed the rinnegan for it. And both EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara ‘s armored susanoo manifested shoulder plates and tengu mask only when the kyuubi was making up for their lack of rinnegan.
Madara quite literally showcases the Perfect Susanoo separate from the Kyuubi what are we talking about. Madara also references Hashirama fighting it when he says he was the only one who could stop him when displaying his Max Power.
@@ThunderGodTG He didn’t showcase it against hashirama in the manga. It’s anime filler
Final Valley, unless you wanna argue it’s only true for susano’o but even then Madara imply Hashirama has fought it when he whips it out and also confirms he had it when Onoki asks when he held back against him before. The databook also states it comes from the MS so stop this please.
EMS Sasuke is underrated!
I dont think amaterasu would just kill kabuto if it hits him. He can likely sub out the same way sasuke did in his fight with itachi when he got hit with amaterasu. Other than that lil nitpick fantastic vid
Appreciate it my man!
MS Sasuke by that blind arc was vastly stronger than any of his other MS versions too.
🐸: “yap… yap”
33:36 bro lied 3 seconds later proving this yap scaling ^
Wat
6:35 using the word diction twice is wild.
LMAO bro I be fucking up so much with stuff like that 😭😂
@@ThunderGodTG can’t blame you that was the proper word to use, but in a voice chat with the boys you know you’d be getting flamed for that. lol
😭😭
While this is definitely “let’s give Sasuke the best interpretation “ and I don’t agree with some of it I definitely think it’s pretty well done especially explaining the take on the curse mark amp
Appreciate it, curious which part's didn't you agree with?
10:13
I mean after the white extreme attack, Kabuto could have one hit ko'ed Sasuke so maybe he is a tier above at least Sasuke alone.
In terms of stats, that's just a really strong technique most characters can't counter
Can you do ems Sasuke vs alive minato with sage mode
You can’t use sage mode for minato he barley has feats and Naruto surpassed him with kcm 1 I think
@@CWTempest a lot of people don't believe that and argue hype up minato more than usual,
But yeah naruto has surppased him
His Susano'o was boosted by Naruto when they joined.
It doesn't make sense to have a full body perfect Susano'o, but to still not have legs on your lower level Susano
(and his lower level Susano'o only had legs when boosted by kyuubi chakra)
Sasuke being insecure is a major character moment. Receiving a significant chakra buff from his rival is another. There’s a reason we all remembered it that way.
Is it that hard to believe that someone with EMS could use susano with legs? WTF are u on.
He didn't even talk about all the chakra Naruto got from Minato before they fought Juubito but no, we only remember when Sasuke go a little cloak🤡
@@elhood4060 this isn’t a Naruto versus Sasuke discussion, stick to the plot
@@cunningfox7838 you're the one claiming all his significant feats was because of Naruto so why won't I involve him.
Arguing Sasuke needed kyubi chakra to use susano with legs is beyond insane.
@@elhood4060 no y’all have decided to settle for ambiguous rage amps because there is no explainable answer for Sasukes progression at times besides napping three times for power ups. Got a buff from Naruto and fusion with Orochimarus form of Senjutsu. You have to do mental gymnastics to act like Kishimoto isn’t going to animate the externalization of what those amps provided.
@@cunningfox7838 good point, you can argue he would have been a bit weaker but I don't see any sense in arguing an EMS user needs kurama chakra to use regular susano with legs.
Madara was doing it with MS and even no eyes
Kakashi and Indara both had perfect susano with just the Ms but Sasuke with EMS having susano with legs is so unbelievable.
Did you watch the video? What kind of amp do you think Hashirama is getting from a kyubi cloak? If the cloak is adding 500 to fodders with power levels of 100 of course it'll be significant.
Now add 500 to someone who's power levels is 10,000.
Or you think Sasuke gets a special cloak?
“Curse mark doesn’t amplify power by ten times” except it does, at least for the sound four, we are told this twice or maybe thrice, I do agree that when it comes to Susano or Kurama or even Hagoromo in the anime using Senjutsu isn’t really a 10x amp
It amplifies the chakra of the users ten times not every stat, this is stated by Jirobo & clarified in the Sakon / Ukon fight. Getting 10x more chakra does not = 10x stronger that’s where chakra control comes in + this is evident via the sound 4 being able to be combated by the Gennin in Base - CM2. Idk why this comment was phrased like this when I clarified it in the vid.
@@ThunderGodTG no? Where does it ever say chakra? Jirobo himself literally says “in this state my power is 10 times greater than it was previously” also the Genin at that point were way above most Genin, consider Sasuke who was stated to be Chunin level by Hayate, and broke through Gaara’s sand by mere punche, the same sand defence that impressed the Chunin and Tokubetsu Jonin running the exams, was considered weak by the sound 4 when they fought him,
Jirobo says he’s 10x stronger which is somewhat vague,however it’s clarified to us in the Sakon / Ukon fight by Kiba that it’s actually a 10x increase in chakra not stats. Ch.203 is where this is clarified if you want to go see. I was just using Genin as a phrase to reference the group not downplay the Sound 4 to clarify.
Idk what the rest of this is ngl, Genma & Raido were out of chakra returning from a mission and still forced the sound 4 to go CM2 to beat them, but idk what this has to do with anything.
@@ThunderGodTG so how much of an amp would you say sage mode actually is for people like Jiraiya, Naruto, or Kabuto?
It’s not really measurable that’s thing about Naruto the amps are huge just not quantifiable, & not every amp boosts jutsu power speed, and AP like SM.
Agree with Most except the Genjutsu Part 💀
Danzo experienced Sasuke's Genjutsu and quite literally classified it as ' Not even close ' to itachi. And we don't even know whether Danzo is talking about Tsukiyomi. Itachi has shown Base Sharingan Genjutsu that is above the likes of MS Sasuke. Like his 30% Chakra clone trapping Kakashi with a base Sharingan in something similar to tsukiyomi.
Also, The full extent of Tsukiyomi is unknown and could be very high.
The novel says he gave his gf a Lifetime with it. That's leagues above anything Sasuke has shown.
Kakashi said itachi could have just killed him using tsukiyomi which Sasuke's Genjutsu was never able to
I am not even dignify your " Sakura is relative to Base EMS Sasuke " statement with a Proper response 💀
Bro just missed what I said about that part, I legit mention Obito and by extension Danzo are judging this off what they see not what they know. They see Sasuke’s genjutsu they’re like Itachi’s is > which I do agree with, but not for that reason.
I also went out of my way to say why that statement wasn’t true and how I disagree with it lmao so idk if you actually weren’t peeping what I said correctly or what.
@@ThunderGodTG You didn't specify your stand at all.
And They may be Judging Sasuke by what they see but they are judging itachi by what they know.
1) it was a death battle. So Sasuke was using the full extent of his power including Genjutsu prowess. No reason to believe he had stronger stuff up his sleeve
2) absolutely no reason to believe thag obito or danzo knew full extent of itachi's capabilities or his limits.
The point of that section was to displace that Sasuke has done something akin to Itachi not that he’s as proficient with it or has an exact replica. I agree with what you’re saying Danzo & Obito have no idea, which lends itself to this. Also using this type of technique also doesn’t aid him in the fight with Danzo as he had to wait out the 10 Minute Timer on Izanagi, using that type of Genjutsu would have awarded him nothing as Danzo would have just passively respawned so it wouldn’t have been useful whereas the subtle Genjutsu was
Again I do agree Itachi has better MS genjutsu than Sasuke here but it’s entirely consistent with what’s shown for Sasuke to be rivaling Itachi’s MS entirely with his EMS, the whole novel stuff is inherently contradicted by the fight but is more so predicated on if you actually think the novels are canon.
I specified that her “reaching their backs” or being able stand alongside them in battle doesn’t mean she’s on their level. Again idk what you heard, but that’s literally me having a stance.
@@ThunderGodTG and i am disagreeing you on the matter of Sasuke having Genjutsu capacity as itachi.
Novels aren't canon. It is classified as that but it a whole other medium. Its the same as considering anime add ons as canon. Its not written by kishimoto so its not a part of Naruto manga.
Tsukiyomi is on a whole different lvl. Its not same as normal Genjutsu. And other than the novel part Sasuke has nothing making him close to it.
I can agree that ems sasuke has the raw potential to be as good as Sharingan Genjutsu as itachi EXCEPT Tsukiyomi.
If he had Genjutsu that strong, He could control danzo him self to deactivate izanagi like Itachi did with Kabuto.
You see the novels being non canon is a different topic. If you feel that way fair enough that’s all you would need to say. The novel feat was just more so pushing the narrative I was pushing in the vid especially with their genjutsu clash, my main premise was that EMS Sasuke would rival Itachi genjutsu wise not MS do that Danzo point is mute since Itachi would have greater genjutsu at that point, also time space genjutsu doesn’t inherently just mean you can mind control every opponent but small micro nitpick. Kabuto was already in the izanami loop and could be mind controlled very easily so again it’s not a 1:1
We can just agree to disagree I got a read on your argument and we ain’t gonna benefit from any more comments back and forth other than time wasted.
oh shit this came out of nowhere lol (I have thermodynamics hw to do tg cmon g) 😭
a lot of the hatred amps or whatever you're calling it came from juugo's operation on sasuke to save his life vs killer b. he repaired sasuke's organs with cells from his own body, resulting in this freaky nature energy using berserker sasuke which amplified his powers in a way not too dissimilar to that time when orochimaru had a curse mark on sasuke.
That would be cool but sadly it’s not the case
At this point you probably couldn’t define the word miss. 🔥🔥
Naruto was active in the war for FAR longer than Sasuke was, naruto took on multiple kage or stronger than kage level opponents before fighting juubito. the fact that Sasuke didn’t outshine him blatantly after having one fight where itachi did all the heavy lifting is kind of a red flag imo. Naruto also replenished his chakra during the war lol. And yes naruto had kurama helping him but Sasuke literally had a power that originated from the otsutsuki clan, and his eyes have 0 negative side effects besides feeling pain and bleeding while being used. I’d say those advantages cancel each other out.
I mean it’s pretty clear Naruto was superior because they both got half of SO6P chakra at the end of the story but Naruto had to hold back in the final fight in order to get Sasuke back, and that was after he fought kaguya for twice as long as Sasuke did.
Fresh Naruto with no fatigue and 100% chakra would have folded Sasuke in a 1v1 at any point after awakening KCM2 and in all forms beyond imo
I agree Naruto was active way more but, Naruto actually had his reserves just recharged over and over by Kurama. At one point even actually stealing all of Minato's Nine Tails Chakra so while he is fighting for longer, the constant influx of chakra that is directly tied to his stamina kept recharging him.
Exemplified when he was about to pass out with the most notable fatigue in the series against White Mask Obito and unlinking the seal completly replenished him. So while your right in some aspects, in others I just do not agree.
Um no naruto didn’t hold back at all. They ended up in the same condition 😂😂😂😂
The Kurama Avatar is durable sure but I don't believe it has the "perfect defense" lore that the Susanoo has, let alone the full-body one. I think that if they were equal the Susanoo should be more durable but it's not
do you have the raw kanji for the statement about EMS sasuke being > edo itachi in ninjutsu + genjutsu? cause the translation im getting is ninjutsu and dojutsu, not genjutsu.
I’ll update the description with it sometime soon my b for not immediately posting it
@@ThunderGodTG gotcha, thanks
Finally he stopped being lazy and uploaded this smh 🙄 Anyway hyped to watch this lmao
LMAOOO
I really wish we knew what that jutsu was that Hashirama gave him.
Also, during Sasuke and Itachi's fight, Itachi mentions a new visual jutsu that Madara acquired after obtaining EMS.
I want to know what EMS jutsu Madara acquired after gaining the EMS. I was really interested in seeing the jutsu.
Yeah it would have been really nice all we know is that Hashirama gave him some of his chakra and a technique that would bind Madara.
Storm Generations implies Madara has some sort of ability to see a little into the future like past what the Sharingan does with its Kinetic Vision
Oh? Then why did he avoid the Hidan Fight?
LMAO
How strong is anakin solo the prodigy child
I love that front :)
Kabuto is a tier above Itachi and Saskue with his full arsenal.Kabuto with his full arsenal includes all of his edo tensei …….. So if ur gonna say Itachi and Saskue were nerfed ,Kabuto literally had his strongest assets not available for that fight .Imagine Itachi and Saskue fighting sage kabuto with all of the edo from the war ,not even giving him Madara,It’s literally a low diff fight if we want to be fair to everyone and give everyone their arsenal. When doing Orochimaru vs battles ,people give him his edo summonings but never do the same for Kabuto which is not fair.
Edo tensei takes time to set up it’s literally like giving prep time to the characters so the only way to make that fair is to give itachi koto which he can then use to just brainwash kabuto… in a random encounter kabuto does lose with prep he beats virtually everyone
Bros been promising this video for 3 months i swear
LMAO
Make a how strong is Naruto kcm2 or just Naruto in the war arc period 🙏🏾
Already done on the channel 👌🏻
Ooo them amps bit is quite controversial
Ay early gang here at 5:20 AM
GOATED
As a reminder naruto has been in the war and fighting a bit longer than sasuke. So tiny nid bits about him being blown back or whatever shouldn’t really matter. Than man also has been exerting more chakra and sharing with the entire alliance. He’s waaay more fatigued than sasuke.
Naruto got his chakra replenished multiple times in the war arc
Bro kabuto was doing the same thing he needed sasuke alive so he could absorb the rest of orochimaru chraka
This drawing on paper is impressive
But has no chance against a real dwarf
EMS Sasuke vs. King The Wildfire
Hot take EMS sasuke is just as strong as EMS madara. The only difference is Madara has a perfect sussano but to be fair madara is in his mid-20s where Sasuke is a teenager. If Sasuke were to train for 10 years, he would be just as strong as madara. Thoughts?
This is true
Itachi didn’t need EMS to go armored unlike sasuke due to experience
If it were itachi who got the EMS he definitely would unlock the PS
I have been thinking this for the longest time, but I’ve never heard anybody bring it up. I agree with the Itachi perfect sussano.
This is an interesting take that should be talked about more ,but In my opinion that would mean Ems sasuke is around alive hashirama level which kinda doesn’t work.
No he’s not lmfao. Sasuke is no where near Hashiramas lvl of power at this point. Madara was
@@CelestQB yes I agree but if he got to train until his prime around his mid 20s he would be just as strong if not stronger.
paid the pateron discord invite dont work😭😭
Discord is not set up yet LMAO I apologize I am working on it, I appreciate you hoping on the membership
Make a vid for Kcm Naruto
Already on the channel
Hear me out...swap the Sasuke Retrieval and Gaara Retrieval Squads.
Ems Sasuke stomps bee