The Hormone Hangover: A Detrans🦎Story | with Grace
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2021
- Find Grace on twitter @HormoneHangover
hormonehangover.substack.com/
Learn more about the Gender Care Consumer Advocacy Network (GCCAN) at www.gccan.org
Part of a series of Detrans Stories: bit.ly/DeTransStories
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#DetransStories #60Minutes
I’m so, so grateful I grew up before all of this. 😳
Me too. This would have destroyed my life.
Ditto
Big Facts.
I'm just glad i dont live in the states that promote this stuff. I'll be homeschooling any kids of mine just in case though.
My thoughts exactly
Damn back in the day we were just emo.
I say goth as well
Yes! And did piercings to be unique and edgy. Now is everything about hormones and surgeries
I de-Emo’d after realizing it wasn’t who I was
now it's emo on steroids. literally.
@@ilfautdanser9121 😂 Oh sh*t.
The public needs to demand that 60 Minutes air the entire footage of the interviews with Garrett, Grace and Rachel. They have all been done a great disservice, and they do not deserve having their words edited out. Brava, Grace, we wish you all good health, all happiness in life.
This made up innate "Gender Identity" is LITERALLY being taught to children from an early age.
The internet will destroy more people than we know
Ok let's do it then.
@@ahmarcamacho8404 Agreed. The internet, and social media, is the big Tabaco of the 21st century. Hopefully one day we will look back and wonder what were we thinking. Social Media has been a net negative to society.
@@michaelknight2897 The problem is, there is no way to destroy this thing. Too many thoughts, too many ideas being shared simultaneously, too many positions being argued back and forth. Not to be pessimistic but unless you go full totalitarian and limit internet usage on civilians, then this will never end.
Problem: I don't feel comfortable being me.
-Solution: Learn to accept myself.-
Solution: Become not me.
Right? It teaches people to reject their own bodies. It's not healthy.
“If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t, embrace it.”
This. This has been my problem with the transgender community all of this time and you have finally expressed it.
@@gillianomotoso328 biggest problem is that doctors are telling people they can change it when they can't.
@@katrinaxharhus3747 oh God i know. This girl is lucky she can still pass as a woman because alot of formerly transitioned people cant ever really do that again.
Gosh- ‘profound loss’ - it just reminded me of my mum relating to us as teen girls how her best friend. who had to have a mastectomy because of breast cancer, and how she struggled with the grief of feeling like a part of her womanhood was gone forever, and that she never looked in the mirror again when she put on her prosthetic bra each day. So sad. I remember a time when women could not even get services or spaces to talk about big things like this that were actually outside of their control. We seem to be in that place again . I think about how My mum grieved when she had to have a hysterectomy for health reasons- having had it all work well for her through 6 successful pregnancies. Connection to our bodies in space is a huge deal. We do need to teach young girls and boys to be attached to and contented with their bodies moving them through this life.
I hope you also consider the male prepuce.
@@rm9308 the foreskin by any other name :) totally agree. circumcision is ( in all but the rarest cases) an unnecessary trauma inflicted upon our baby boys.
Thank you Benjamin for giving these people a voice!
Ben, you are such a gem of an interviewer. You ask incredibly insightful questions, with compassion and kindness, which doesn't seem to be too abundant when centering on detrans stories.
It is very hard to maintain political stereotypes when confronted with individual human beings with individual human stories.
I appreciate her realization about how we are all struggling. It’s terrifying to imagine being offered a permanent solution to the temporary desperation of isolation of the maturing brain.
Listening to detransitioners telling their stories always makes me so irritated with the educated adults in their lives who are just going along and not questioning things enough. I understand many feel compelled to work with gender questioning youth in that way because of the hostility towards anything but affirmation, but still! All of us who are adults have gone through childhood, puberty, adolescence, and being young adults. Many of us have struggled with stuff in our lives and with mental health, stress, anxiety, our place in society, feeling like impostors, etc. We know that changing yourself superficially, whether it's presenting as the opposite sex or losing weight will not change the problems you have deep within yourself, at least not in the long term. It may give a temporary confidence boost and it may make you happy for a while but deeper sh*t that's going on will still be there and you're still gonna have to deal with it.
Unfortunately they've been coached by online transers to use the suicide card to get their way. What parent wants to test that one.
@@jackiebiggs7071 My mom would have 100 % told me to not be so stupid and stop being so full of myself, and her mom killed herself after a lifetime with mental illness so she’s very familiar with suicidal ideation. I’m not saying that’s perfect either but it’s something.
My sister is a principal and she tells me about poor parents coming crying to her because their kids are threatening to call the CPS on them and lie about abuse for not buying them iPhones and expensive clothes. Parents obviously need to stand up to their kids and stop letting them run the household by fear.
@@MathildaFlow agree. This started back in the 90s. My daughter tried it on me after a no smacking law had come in. Lol she thought if she reported me she'd be able to go stay at her friend's house. She was somewhat disappointed when I informed her she wouldn't get to choose where she went, lol she was a young teen by then and I wasn't smacking her anyway. Authority has been handed to the kids. Gods save us.
Exactly!!!
anxiety, depression, eating disorders, childhood abuse .. these are the issues that once addressed caused young women i know to stop transitioning. it's *criminal* that the "professionals" who facilitate transitioning do not address these (and other) issues seriously B4 transitioning.
Remember "affirmative support" and ONLY affirmative support, you can't question, only affirm.
The Canadian govt has adopted this ideology- it's the most irresponsible decision and poorly thought out legislation EVER passed. It will be the shame of the Liberal party and government for decades to come. PMJT absolutely dropped the ball here, he should have ousted Jody Wilson Raybould long before she had a chance to propose this irresponsible and irreparably damaging bandwagon mentality foolishness- She showed her true colours so many times, she's the idiot in the room who wanted so badly to 'play with the big boys, do something "important", something "meaningful" make a name for herself' She's been the cause of so many ruined lives- She made herself a name alright- Pariah, Unforgivable, Life ruiner- she'll be remembered alright and it won't be for anything good or beneficial to our nation 🙄🤨
@@itsnotyouitsmesues6868 You don't get how bad it is. Not only have they jailed the leader of the only opposition party that is actively against any of this. These critical theory people will lie cheat, steal and even kill to get what they want. And we are too infested at this point to turn this around in any way that doesn't look totalitarian. Canada in particular is screwed.
This is a cultural crusade, and they dont care about these people - only the crusade.
They can't because they will be prosecuted and lose their license
Imagine how many people YOUNG PEOPLE this will destroy, and the backlash that will form from it
That is why this bizarre belief system should not be introduced and marketed to kids in schools. Even very smart kids don't have the life experience to see that they are being lied to.
As a 50 year old biological male who gets testosterone replacement therapy, I agree it definitely does all the things she mentioned. Aggression is a bit greater. Sexual desire is up. Fear is down. It’s interesting to hear a woman's perspective, having walked a mile in a man's shoes for almost a year. Thanks for the video!
Thank you grace for sharing your story and once again thank you Ben for giving these people a platform. I hope one day society can come to its senses about the nuance that is these peoples experiences.
i've listened to a lot of detransitioners and i'm struck by their intelligence. and then i'm also struck by the disconnection from reality, like how on earth did Grace EVER think she would pass as male? i have learned so much from detransitioners, thank you Grace, thank you Benjamin, and all the other _stunning and brave_ young people who shared their stories with you.
just wish i could pass as male, knowwhatimean? hahaha
Don't make the mistake in thinking that passing to your eyes or the eyes of others is the critical factor. Likely it's not, tho sometimes it is. The bigger part is how they see themselves.
Many of these young females are anxious, isolated, engage in self-harm (cutters), suffered trauma/sexual abuse/harassment, anorexics, have autism, and other conditions that make it difficult for them to relate to the rest of the world and understand things like social relationships, expressions, and things like biological sex. I have also noticed that many of the women report having been exposed to pornography at a young age, specifically pornography that either romanticized gay male relationships and/or depicts women as weak etc. Dr. Debra Soh has further information and is continuing to speak out despite attempts to "cancel" her, she can be found on various UA-cam channels (interviews).
@@user-tx2dc3vm7m love Dr Soh. She's amazing
Their online community props up their delusion by pretending they pass, no one is honest with them.
6:50
I watch this to study English
I am Korean
Today I learned the phrase "precipitating factor"
I looked it up on a English-Korean dictionary
Well done. 저눈 한국어도 공부하고 있습니다. 그런데, 건단한 대와 만 알어요
Good for you!
@Plainglasswindows thanks!!
@Plainglasswindows thanks!!!!
@@funstuffonthenet5573 Awesome!!! Lovely!!! 한국어 잘 하시네요!!! ^*
I keep coming back to this idea of gender identity being an info-hazard. I think it might go further than that. I think perhaps the concept of identity in general is an info-hazard. If one of your primary goals in life is to "find yourself" or "discover who you are", you will be driven to obsession and despair pursuing a question with no answer.
True!
I will tell you a story. When I was 12 I watched a movie about a woman who had an eating disorder. It literally taught me how to have an eating disorder. I looked in the mirror one day and snapped and panicked that I was fat. Do i think these things are done on purpose and the powers that be want all this chaos? The answer is yes. The ones at the top worship Satan. He wants all this pain. He hates us.
The answer to this problem is, Buddhism. Also, Jordan Peterson has mentioned that there is a very strong correlation between thinking about yourself and anxiety. Like obsessing over your identity is a one way ticket to anxiety and depression.
Grace really lives up to her namesake in this interview. I feel privileged to have witnessed her account. She describes having extreme social anxiety, but throughout this video, all I saw was a charismatic and open person. Whether that is from personal growth or whether she had simply underestimated her own appeal, it is gratifying to see someone who can go through hell and come out stronger for it.
Grace’s detrans story becomes a transformation revealing yet another lovely, thoughtful, and wise individual. The personal growth exhibited by so many of the guests you interviewed gives my heart hope as I know each has suffered great loss. I hope their clear, strong and very young voices will influence our medical, social, psychological and political institutions to practice safeguarding against irreversible bodily damage. What we are doing to children and young people is criminal.
Thank you Grace and Benjamin for providing me with an opportunity to deepen my understanding of this issue.
the whole narrative is falling apart, once we get past the "what the hell is going on" stage (for the normies), i fully expect anger then law suits. start with universities and medical/pharma institutions, we need people in prison over this. also the media and politicians who assisted this mess.
I’m in total agreement. That stage can’t come soon enough!
Yes. Heads should role over this one, and I'd start with the gender therapists and then the male to female trans crowd who brainwashed vulnerable girls and women online.
@@nancyrobertson9256 for me the type you're describing are opportunistic degenerate hebephillist rapists, they should be arrested however they're simply reacting to a situation or environment that has been setup by the academia, media, politicians and medical "experts, these groups normalised the behaviour.
i'd start with the medical "experts" as you say therapists (i'd add in there endocrinologists) and work backwards through academia, all the while publically shaming those who provided the constant and very loud support provided by mainstream media pundits and politicians (hopefully into retirement).
lately i don't think any of this will actually happen, our society(ies) are in a fatal decline have been for the past century. this nasty mess is just another mechanism of humiliation the west are being subjected to. we've feminised our men, masculated our women, the family unit is being pulled apart, god is now our governments, our celebrities use face-cream containing our son's penis skin, it's all going to fall apart (or be held together with brutal centralised regimes)... either way this will all go away. make good with your neighbours and hope they're competent and dangerous ;).
Sadly I think it will only fade away with no repercussions, like lobotomies
@@clarebear764 well the satanic panic ended with some decent lawsuits at least. It probably depends on how the media ends up representing this period.
Someone should interview the doctors who did her surgery and remind them of the Hippocratic Oath.
"First do no harm" wasn't part of the original, it was added in thr 17th century but it's not included in the modern verson. It does say "Above all, I must not play at God." But that's part of their job too; look at the fertility industry and all the work done in creating life and keeping people alive by tremendous medical intervention. Or should they abide by that part too?
@@Cynnas Point taken- I was referring to the "first do no harm" phrase, but even that is debated for instance in the case of euthanasia. One could use that phrase to argue for both sides: First do no harm could mean for some that euthanasia is unacceptable, but another may look at the same situation and say letting someone suffer is doing more harm than helping them end their life. I guess the way I meant it was, if you're not ABSOLUTELY SURE that a person will suffer more if you don't do the irreversible surgery, then just don't do it, or at least wait long enough to be sure.
This ultimately rests on the definition of harm... which in today's world makes it almost completely useless. All you have to do is redefine harm and anything can be made not just permissible but mandatory.
I think you hit the nail on the head Ben, when you said "Right of passage". Girls and boys don't go through rights of passages anymore, where in history this was pretty predominent for girls/boys to be guided by a right of passage into adulthood, and be able to define who they are, thier place in the world, and thier responsibilities in adulthood.
With my daughter, I discussed with her, her right of passage into adulthood by picking up on what she had an affininity for, and then going through that process with her which would lead eventually to her understanding the adult she would become. I also used a book that we both own, called 'Women who run with the wolves' by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, which goes through the stages of womanhood using old women folktale stories. I think, the wisdom of Elders is really important to help guide others. I highly recommend this book to any women.
I think this is what the LGBTQI's T Ideology fulfills for young people seeking this kind of guidance into adulthood. I think the T Ideology doesn't advocate for young people to grow into adulthood. I think it advocates young people to be stunted in thier growth. Which is pretty dangerous.
You have got to be careful because you maybe taking the path that is not for you, or could be detrimental to your wellbeing, and can have damaging consequences. I don't think its really that necessary to go through the extreme hard school of knocks to learn wisdom. I think there maybe easier paths to take where there is not such irrevesable damage to your mind and body.
By mentioning the "Right of passage" I think you summarised it all. That's single thing all of my male and female friends(we're in our fifties) agree upon,that this lack of having to "earn" the right into adulthood which existed and still exists in all ancient cultures,and was in different itterations existent in our modern cultures seriously undermines young humans ability to "grow up" and that it forces them into the state of perpetual childhood with all sort of consequences for the rest of their lives.
*'rite of passage' (not 'right')
But it's an interesting observation btw.
For a lot of women it's their period, and the wisdom of mothers/grandmother's. For men it's a rite of sacrificial hardship, usually. Girls transition into the mothers and matriarchs of a tribe while boys transition to the guardians and protectors of the tribe.
"I didn't know that many people" - root cause right here
37:50 The main issue is a pretty clearly a lack of dissent. Silencing those closest to them with threats of "transphobia"... even friends/family.
I've listened to several of your interviews with detrans people and have been struck each time by how clear and internally insightful they each have become, through these incredibly powerful experiences.
I'm in my 70's and have little day to day with these issues so I must comment that the poised internal reflections presented are self realizations which have taken me decades of vigilant pursuit to get even close to this level of mindful insight...self-realization comes in many forms one might say...good stuff Benjamin.
Some heterodox (nonwoke) organization needs to conduct a study on the number of girls and women who have transitioned and detransitioned. My hunch is the percentage of detransitioners is growing rapidly.
Yep. The 1% detransition myth is always their arguement as if even that would be OK. I think it's an absolute outrage noone is studying detransitioners, finding out how many there are and bending over backwards to create resources to help them. Literally scared of the activists.
The truth is general society doesn't care and minds their own business (which is generally how it goes). So if something transgressive arises and everyone is saying "no, this a moral action" and then there is us saying "no, this is morally transgressive".
Until 20 years later where someone makes a documentary about how damaging this era's ideas awere and how no one did anything....
Have you read Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier?
@@NPC-30 Yes. It's a wonderful book. I recommend it highly.
If a 'non woke organizations were to start collecting data on how many people are detransitioning and then analyse how many are female to male detransitioning and vice versa the woke mob would be accusing them of faking data to try to negate the experience of successful transitioned. I think a big part of the problem with trans issues is the lack of open communication and the reluctance to acknowledge transitioning doesn't always lead to a solution of dysmorphia or other issues. Hence such a push for transitioning to go ahead and then the devastation of having to detransition.
The trouble with adolescents is that they think they’ve reached the pinnacle of maturity, and won’t be told that they still have a lot of growing up to do.
I’m glad she was able to share her story. How feelings of struggling to accept ourselves is not uncommon. And the freedom you gain through taking ownership of your actions.
This is a human tragedy. A generation has been maimed. Wow.
I agree with the word “maimed” in this context but I disagree that it is a whole generation. There are still many individuals in the Millenial/GenZ age bracket who don’t subscribe to the philosophies that tell us to mutilate our bodies.
When I was a young girl going through puberty, I had lots of questions and curiosity on my mind. I thought boys' toys were so much more fun, I thought they had nicer clothes than girls, I had this idea their life was nicer because they did not have to deal with mean girls in school, etc... But back then, having a hormones treatment and chopping my emerging boobs off would have caused quite the shock and my parents would have strongly opposed, I am sure. Of course, I grew up out of those confusing, developing thoughts shortly after. I love being a woman, a mother, and feel so sad for these new generations that do not have that "wall" or "block" for them to stop and think things over before making a life long wrong decision...
I can tell you growing up as a boy in the 90s was not easy, especially being nerdy. I didn’t fear being teased by mean girls, I feared physical violence from bullying which I had to fight to defend myself all the time. There’s also the additional fear of humiliation through teasing and bullying. The grass always seems greener on the other side. It’s amazing how common this phrase is and how little people truly comprehend it. It’s all just an attempt to escape reality instead of facing it head on. This is definitely at the core of a lot of this madness.
Thanks for covering these important stories, Benjamin, and thank you for your courage, Grace.
I enjoyed the interview. Grace is very beautiful and clever girl! I was convinced once again how important it is to stay true to our natural power, and how sad it that the culture we live in always asks us to change or modify ourselves, when we are already whole. I could relate to Grace's story. Thank you!
Oh wow, she's so different here than in the 60 Minutes interview. Must've been those TV nerves.
Ben has a knack. You can literally see her open up as the interview goes on.
She has a delightful sense of humor that bubbles to the surface because Benjamin conveys genuine respect and concern for his guests. We need more of this in the world!
She’s lovely. I’m glad she saved herself. Strong personality.
She's so cute. I hope she finds peace and lives a wonderful life! ❤️
So on the breasts topic. I felt horrible about mine for years. But in the 2 to 3 years of therapy that I went thru I found that it was because I was MADE to feel uncomfortable about them because of their size. My own family made me feel like they were bad because of their own jealousy. I'm so grateful I went thru therapy instead because now I love just being a buff woman with nice size hooters. My partner suggested when I felt I might be trans that I go see this nice therapist. So I did. And the deeper we dug, the more I felt that I should just keep going to therapy
Tumblr! I lost a lot of good friends in my life because of Tumblr.
the way she describes her fixation on gender and how it is "spiritual" in a way only makes me think of religion and cults
I have no ill feelings toward anyone who has gone through these anxieties and processes, but I just can't help but finding it somewhat sad and somewhat frightening that so many young women in the West have been so sheltered from the realities of life they can make these changes without realizing the implications.
I'm constantly astounded at how poorly young women understand men, especially. And I do believe strongly there is a class aspect to this phenomenon. When we have no real struggles, we will create our own. And I think theres a lot of middle and upper class women that have virtually never confronted true adversity, and so when some ideology comes along and gives you an adversity that you actually have total control over, that's a tantalizing thing. It's so wild that theory and ideology so often trump basic real world experience, and I think shows how the real problem seems to be the opposite of oppression--these girls are literally virgins to fundamental obstacles older generations and young men confront on the daily.
The flipside is that she now has deal with the loss of her original body at her own volition, which is a burden I couldn't imagine.
So well said. Thank you.
Seriously! Elective hormonal/surgical mutilation of primary and secondary sex characteristics - that level of self-immolation would be a tough thing to forgive oneself for… especially upon realizing that the cause for your martyrdom cares nothing for you as an individual person and is only trying to further a political narrative to undermine age-old values in the name of progressive-ism.
No, they face issues just like men do.
what are you talking about, women have tons of struggle and adversity all the time, even middle class and upper class women
Grace, I wish you could transfer your understanding into my daughter's brain. I believe she's on the verge of making exactly the same mistake for exactly the same nebulous reasons :(
I'd recommend finding on YT videos by Sasha Ayad and A Wider Lens podcasts for advice on how to talk to your daughter. Also more interviews with detransitioners who might have some advice for what sort of things reached them, and what things pushed them away.
Ask her to sit down with you and have a long-form conversation. Let her speak, accept what she is saying. But then ask gentle questions: what do you think will change for you if you were to transition? What will hormones do to your body, your voice, etc? Is that a permanent change? Are you considering removal of tissue or other surgeries? Have you seen the results? Do you want to date? Who do you want to date? What groups are you a part of online for support? Have you spoken with anyone who has de-transitioned? Are there groups like that out there? What do they think? What issues are they facing after having gone through this. You need to have a long conversation, set up a few. Psychiatrists won't necessarily probe at the origins of these issues. Ask her to get a full hormone panel.
Also, ask her what kinds of medications she'll have to be taking for life. Ask her what the surgeries do to your body longterm. Like a FTM bottom surgery is horrific, completely medieval. Does she want to date men or women in the future? Does she think women will want to sate her with these changes? The answer is no, normal people will pity her. They won't be attracted to her.
Just a long form conversation and actually consider every single little step. Like, what if you just don't alter your body and hormones and work on accepting yourself. You have a good functional body that doesn't need medications every day or constant maintinence.
Big one: how do you imagine sex and sexual pleasure will play out? If you remove your nipples, will you lose a major sensation that both men and women enjoy naturally? So many trans people completely lose their libido, cannot experience sexual pleasure, etc etc. It's one of the biggest parts of being human. And you can lose that, and you lose part of yourself that can never be returned.
You just need to go slow and calm about it. See her perspective and acknowledge it and believe her. Once you do that, she'll be able to move on to other aspects of it, and not just in a combative mode trying to convince you.
Cluniac is another great channel by a man who is kind, intelligent and compassionate who has detransitioned
Ask your daughter to sit down with you and watch some of these de-transition videos - especially this one. Helena was great with explaining her feelings in relation to herself, but this video has a totally different feel of vulnerability and regret. I have 2 daughters (15 and 12) and while they're not questioning their genders at this time, there was a time (right before Covid-19) when my older daughter seemed to question things. I stayed home with them everyday for the entire 2 years they were off school, so I had that lucky time to spend with her to understand how she felt about herself.
It may be important to achnowledge your own influence especially if you don't reflect upon certain types of narcissistic and cluster B personality profiles which you could fit. Narcissists never even consider their own faults whereas children are very rarely bad or to blame for making catastrophic choices if they have a toxic parent/s
Grace is gorgeous.
She's a very feminine, almost frail bird of a woman. I find it astonishing that she ever thought she could turn herself into anything remotely close to a man. It defies all sense and reason.
@Brielle_Zoe Yes. The extrans men usually have horribly deep male voices. The latest frail bird of an actress who's dipping her toes into transgender bending is Emma Corrin who last year played Princess Diana in Netflix's The Crown. She uses the pronouns she and they, and wears a chest binder to flatten her breasts. I just hope she comes to her senses and stops this nonsense before she starts taking hormones or having a double mastectomy.
being terminally online seems to be a run through thread in a lot of these stories
Yep, no shortage of people who will assure you very dangerous ideas are grounded and sensible on Twitter & Reddit etc
The point about Grace’s social circle all following the same affirming script made me think “The Emperor’s New Gender” would be a good story for our time.
Bravo Ben. Really getting to the heart of the topic. Thank you 🙏🙏🙏
Sadly we're going to see a lot more of these stories in the next decade or so.
Yeah, the unfortunate reality
Maybe I’m putting 2 and 2 together in a way that wasn’t intended, but it sounds like creative pursuits are a more wholesome way to self-actualize while profoundly altering your body (with hormones and surgery) is a less ideal method. Thank you for being so articulate and transparent, Grace! :)
Benjamin seems very calm, collected and very much “in a listening mode”. A great interview/conversation example.
Thank you.
As soon as she said Tumblr, I knew it would be trouble. I remember Tumblr became SUPER liberal and heavily LGBT motivated around like 2013. I even questioned my own sexuality and gender because of all the SJW feminist propaganda and androgyny being heavily discussed. I was 19 and my parents sat me down and had to genuinely ask me why I was thinking the way I was, and I couldn’t come up with a plausible answer. I didn’t even question what they were discussing on Tumblr. I figured everything was normal, but that definitely isn’t the case.
Benjamin, I'd like to know if heterosexual psychologists and psychiatrist are behind this surge in transgender dysphoria. I'm from the LGB community. Notice I left off the T. The trans community reflects a whole different disposition than the LGB community. I know nature isn't perfect but this trans mania that is now the face of the gay community is concerning to many of us. It fits a stereotype that many of us fought in the 70s 80s and 90s to dispel.
Great interview
The irony of the UGG pronoun promo gender grooming intermissions isn’t lost on me
Yeah, I got that too
crazy video, amazing. Once again great video, great guest.
3 thumbs up.
Put away the third “thumb”
Grace speaks well and I hope anyone contemplating transitioning would at least listen to her. Those for whom transition is definitely what they want, no harm done. Best wishes to her.
Gender identity is a belief system. Keep it in church or religious studies. I admire the courage of your guest!
I agree. It’s become a state sponsored religion
she's so charming and has a quick wit and overall likeable personality. I'm so sorry she went through all that.
Very nice talk, lovely person. I don't know if she struggled to find the word 'insecure' or if she was trying to avoid it, when talking about not being secure in your positions.
Feeling a lot of respect but also sadness for this woman. The way she said “got my breasts cut off” really hit hard. She was really going through some crappy stuff and no one helped her to accept herself in her own skin, but rather indulged a teenage fantasy. So tragic that so many young people are resorting to body altering surgery whether it be amputation or other cosmetic stuff. All so superficial and in the end is not a “cure”.
Excellent interview. Grace was such a sweet girl. That she revealed her vulnerability and humility made for an interesting talk.
"Trans genocide" is imaginary, but the Tomboy Genocide is SOOO goddam real.
Having listened to several of these stories the common theme is they all seem to have been heavily influenced by social groupthink.....just as Abigail Shrier details in her books. Basically socially awkward teenager's finding their gang and getting swallowed whole
Who isn't heavily influenced by groupthink, tho?
@@basementmadetapes me
@@tryordiegarage lol. Sure.
@@basementmadetapes I am autistic I am my group you are all mostly wrong
@@basementmadetapes I'm not influenced by groups mainly because I'm a highly isolationist person, I hate crowds and groups because there are too many people for me to know personally and unless I know and trust a person I tend to shy away from them.
Thank you so much for sharing Grace you are a blessing as well as you Benjamin
That was a personal comment to those two people listen to the whole video and tell me what you think
Your family is the ultimate community. Everyone else will drift away over time, it is inevitable and rightly so. Glad you had their support. 🤟🏻
As well, I wanted to add that you are a wonderful and beautiful person. Glad you are becoming comfortable with yourself.
Watch out of the class action lawsuits coming down the pipe in the years ahead....
Right. I keep saying that this is severe negligence and mistreatment of disabled ppl, aka the mentally ill.
I heard tom boys are just future trans. This makes me shudder as I was very tom boy. I do think some are trans, while others are just gay, and the rest straight. I loved boy activities, and hated girl activities. But I also enjoyed the shock expressed when I “cleaned” up. “Trans” people today need a certain amount of push back. If for no other reason than to question themselves.
Interesting, informative and even made me laugh along with her. I learned quite a bit and it all made me think.
I feel so bad for her. Imagine how upsetting that would be.
Yes. Think of the permanent cosmetic damage that is inflicted on thousands of girls and women like Grace. No breasts, receding hairline, coarse facial hair, unfeminine jawline, deepened voice.
Luckily for her, the androgens don't seem to have effected her voice or hairline (more difficult to tell) and her face looks like how it was before.
May as well bring back phrenology and going on about balancing the humours of the body if we are willing to let kids be taught this gen der garbage.
Hopefully one day gender politics will universally seem equally absurd as early medical “treatment.”
Benjamin, great interview - and a great interview subject. She seems a fantastic young woman, with great insight and eloquence, and I hope she can go on to realise her leadership potential in whatever professional endeavour she chooses.
The way she describes her experience confirms my suspicion that what the person who wants to transition is really dealing with is a crisis of self-confidence. They feel socially anxious and awkward, and what they're picturing is themselves being transformed into a confident, outgoing, very social and popular person. All the things they feel that they currently aren't but want to be. In other words, they feel the way most of us feel when we're a teenager .
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us Grace.
"Some people are worried about The Patriarchy and I'm like well what do you do about death?"
Live?
I feel Ben came Super close to saying Gender Studies does harm *bell*
Wow. Thank you for sharing Grace.
The more I listen to interviews with transgender and detransitioning young people, the more I feel these are bright, introspective kids who are struggling with growing up in this crazy world and looking for ways to survive.
56:27 this is an incredible gem of a Boyce anecdote:
I was 19 or something and a nearby library had the internet. I spent all day on it manifesting my will, I was as a god!
There's an alternative dimension where Benjamin Boyce has his own program on prime time TV.
Wonder how he deals with the stress
@@BenjaminABoyce Quoting Rick James:"Cocaine's a hell of a drug"
Is he Bizarro World's Teri Gross?
The Lovely Grace, thank your voice is a lights in the darkness.
Awe, a deer in the field 🌿 how picturesque!
Thank you Grace.
Thanks Grace for being so honest
Another great channel to check out is Cluniac. He is kind, compassionate and another very intelligent detransitioner who has a great testimonial. I think he was interviewed on this channel as well. His name is Isaac.
God bless everyone ✌🏻💚
I was hoping to get a 60 Minutes follow-up from you and Grace. Good deal!
Hey! Do you know where to find the original video? I can't find it on UA-cam. Thanks
@@millag93 My guess is that CBS has it behind a paywall since it aired a few months back. It won't be on UA-cam. It'll be on CBS.
Maybe you’re not a label Grace but a human being!
Blessings to you on life’s journey❤️
52:28 Definite "mic drop" moment. The framework of ideas that we build have very major real-life consequences.
everyone used to talk about fluidity, learning to just be people and dissolving these categories. now we're taught they're all that matter.
As the mom of a young adult woman, I'm so relieved that Grace was able to escape from her turmoil relatively unscathed, compared to so many other women.
I realize this may be a delicate topic but at what point does taking testosterone irreversibly deepen the voice? I used to work in investigative journalism
as a fact checker (long before anyone had ever even heard the term) and I want to learn as much as possible about what is and isn't true. There is so much harmful misinformation
about gender identity and transition.
I've also been married to a primary care physician forever, which is another reason why it's important to me to get the medical facts right-insofar as that is possible.
I want to start constructive conversations about this now that we're all starting to gather together again.
Thanks for sharing your story
67yo gay man here. I can so relate to so much Grace had to say: About recognizing how difficult she was to "reach". About imagining there was a way (I would say "a silver bullet") to once and for all change her internal state and be at peace.
I am so angry (and so terribly sorry for all who have or will fall victim to the "false promise" of "finding your gender identity", being that "silver bullet" and the dangerous, life altering, life damaging methods suggested to accomplish this. The arrogance, irresponsibility, stupidity, psychopathology of the "experts", some of our "dear leaders" here makes me furious and sick to my stomach
I was sent down a different spiritual path (the "gender-non-conforming" challenge was part of it, being faced with imminently being throw through a windshield (averted at the last moment), was another. I am fortunate to not be a young person today
lovely lovely lovely . . thank you
42:47 - “I think going through a period of profound suffering and grief helps you have more grace towards others” 🥳🥳🥳
I'm not sure 'brave' is the right word, so I'll say I'm grateful that Grace decided to speak about her experience on this impotrant topic. It is obvious that something catastrophic has gone wrong with our western education system and the way it teaches/indoctrinates our most vulnerable population - our adolescents. The silver lining is that Grace does appear to have reached some greater understanding of the meaning of femininity/musculinity and her relationship to herself. Thank you Benjamin, and thank you Grace.
It's messed up when you are celebrated and supported for transitioning but not for detransitioning. If you support someone taking steps to be more comfortable in their bodies, it should go both ways. Also - detransitioning is not recognized as a word by spell check which I find interesting. Webster's needs to catch up.
2:00 brunches with a couple of other detransitioners "in my town"!
I thought detransition was supposed to be super rare. How big is this town?
I liv on an island with 2,000 winter residents and 8,000 summer.
We have about 15 kids in grades 1- 5 that are 'trans' or so their mother says ( for me this whole thing seems a bit over blown and pushed by the mothers, almost like it's a kind of munchousin byproxy and attention getting by the parents )
Then we have about 35-40 kids grades 6-12 that identify as trans...we also have a very large adult population....this started about 10 years ago and has slowly gotten worse.
I know 4 men to women trans adults that live in my area and have since gone back to being male ( due to the fact they were never told the open wound they are told is their vagina is constantly trying to close and must be forced open daily, its usually badly and painfully infected more often than not, and their sex drive vanished after having their testes removed, which stopped their female underwear fetishes which was the driving force behind wanting to be women and it was no longer pleasurable after they could no longer achieve orgasm. )
I know 2 women to men, who have since changed back...they were disgusted by the comments made by other men when they assumed they were speaking to fellow perverts. Once these women saw the 'inside track' they realized they could 'never be one of those pigs '.
@@c.a.greene8395 wow. That is staggering. This used to be so rare but it sounds like you're having an epidemic of gender confusion. Thanks for sharing that.
@@fluffymcdeath I am sure there are some real people with gender issues, but the vast number I am seeing in my community leads me to believe this is a trend.
Secondly, it seems to me many are confusing gender with sexual orientation as gender is assigned at birth and is a constant where sexuality is fluid and changes with experience, age and time
She lives in New York City. So very large diverse population
Detransitioning is not as rare as the trans community makes it seem. Its a huge issue they choose to ignore
I wonder what new world of problems will be unearthed once these young ladies decide to have kids. Removing the Breasts , thus making impossible the necessary developmental process (for the infant) of breastfeeding, is bad enough, but i doubt that all that chemical showering of the overlies and the uterus will leave no issues for both mothers and the fetuses during pregnancy. Of course the worse part will be any abnormal development of fetuses due to hormonal imbalances (caused by the transition therapies) or problems caused during the pregnancy due to underdeveloped reproductive organs.
The topic of the sensual experience(dare I say for some women almost a separate but parallel sexual experience to sex) of breastfeeding is taboo in our society.
Very important perspective
Great channel 🙌🏻
How many lives has Tumblr ruined?
Real question
🙌
The testosterone hasn't lowered her voice as much as other detransitioners I've heard. They all seem to have very deep voices and have to work on their voices to get them higher again. She's fortunate in that sense. Something I've always wanted to ask a detransitioner is would they have reconstruction surgery to get breasts again, if that's possible. If I had had surgery to remove my breasts, that would be one of the first things I'd want to do after detransitioning. But I haven't heard anyone mention it.
I think you can restore breasts as cancer victims have reconstructive surgery.
To answer your question. I am a transgender man who stopped testosterone and had a mastectomy a few years ago. I have decided to stop with my transition because I don't want to be a medical patient for life. Although I don't regret the mastectomy because my breasts were very large and that was also not healthy for me and if I chose for a reduction I also would have lost the sensation in my nipples.
Teach critical thinking and debating techniques from a young age. I think it might be a game changer for these susceptible and anxious young females. They seem so nebulous in ALL of their thinking. They seem to have been Totally ungrounded. It is like they never fully take up residence inside their own bodies, and when they finally try to take a stand for themselves in their teens, they end up planting themselves heavily in a mound of utter BS. they have had no faculties to see that this is the case because they have never really engaged with a range of conflicting ideas. Physical outdoor play and mud and mess might be quite useful too. Encourage females to keep playing sports or doing dance in healthy studios who encourage bodily strength and do not shame or hyper sexualise girls bodies. save women’s sports from the trans army. Never tell kids that gender is really a thing or something that is ‘assigned’ at birth. Teach empirical biological facts. Sex is recorded at birth. No one is born in the wrong body- we are born in the body we get and we have to deal with it in all of its complexities, flaws and often in its pain . Talk about brain development in adolescence- forewarn ten year olds that things are about to get really messy, but that this too shall pass.
There Endeth my recommendations for today.
It puzzles me that these transitioners seem to have no gratitude for having a healthy and functioning body. Doesn't it ever occur to them that there are people with handicaps and diseases? You can't take health for granted. You may end up in an accident any moment and be injured for life. How come there are so many people these days that don't seem to consider this aspect of bodily existence at all?
@@Liisa3139 I know- it baffles me.
@@Liisa3139 It's obvious to you because you've already made those connections in your mind. But perspective doesn't come from nothing, you need experience. Think parable of the blind men and the elephant. It's especially bad now with internet echo chambers and recommendation algorithms.
Have you heard about the different ‘learning styles’? Some people being visual, some verbal learners etc? That’s one of the main current theories in education. Back in the 1980’s (and perhaps even earlier) there was an idea that more than teaching people individual subjects, we should be teaching them to ‘critically think’ in general, and then they will be equipped to apply those skills to whatever subject they choose. The problem we found was that nobody knows how to do that and even when people had a coherent idea of how to that it didn’t work.
@@HkFinn83 yes I have heard of the theory of ‘multiple intelligences’ that you are referring to in the first part of your comment. Howard Gardiner is the theorist behind it and I believe even he has moved on from it. I don’t think it is held in much esteem anymore. As with many educational theories, it gets rushed through on teaching staff PD days and generally misunderstood and misapplied in classroom practice. Personally I always hated the term ‘intelligences’ being linked to what was effectively a range of potential ways of attending to the world attentively that any person can be working with concomitantly at any one time. And yet, all we ended up with was a bunch of kids stating with the utmost seriousness and authority that ‘ I am a kinaesthetic learner’ or ‘ I’m such a visual learner’ (insert any ‘intelligence’ you please!) - and then effectively shutting down the mind and believing that if they don’t ‘get’ something on the first try it is because it is not being taught in the manner that they would wish it to be or that suits their ‘ learning style’, or the content just exists outside of the domain they now believe is the ‘one for them’ and they shut themselves off from it. So much educational’theory’ rolls out in this detrimental manner. With regards to teaching critical thinking- I agree- it is
notoriously difficult to teach . Broad conversation and historical knowledge and knowledge of the broader world ( eg talking about current political events between countries) might be a good place to start. Where possible and appropriate, speak to children in the way you would to an adult and expect them to work out what you are saying snd what all the big words mean. Don’t dumb down vocabulary but be precise with it. as it expands the ways that a child can then describe the complexities of the world around them. Teach all students the Socratic method and have them regularly engaging with debating in quite a formal manner to ensure that they must research important topics from different perspectives that they may not actually agree with in the first instance. I think these approaches can go some of the way towards teaching children how to think critically.
Regards, VC
It's so strange that they have to use substitution words for common things; gender for personality, present for dressing like a x/y. I wonder if that helps with indoctrination.
Oh 100%. It’s a complete corruption of language. One of the most insidious parts of this movement is a determined, radicalised and organised attempt to change the scientific consensus AND language surrounding the topic.
Yes. Language is the powerful tool they have; Introducing the word "gender" in the late 90s/early 00's, as a substitute for "sex", was the Trojan Horse that made this whole mess POSSIBLE.
In that era, we USED to consider "sex" and "gender" to be interchangable synonyms, meaning exactly the same. So, if laws and gov't policy swapped the word "sex" for "gender", who cares? They mean the same anyway, right?
...but "sex" is EVIDENCE- BASED, and a hard science term with fixed criteria, which they couldn't re-define... as opposed to "gender", which is vague and murky enough, that they could create a definition to suit their purposes ("just a social construct").
This is why we should NEVER adopt their language. ALWAYS talk in terms of "sex", not "gender". Don't buy into their assumption that SEX-CORRECT pronouns are "the wrong pronouns" and "miagendering". If a biological male wants to be called "she/her", then it is HIM who's wanting to be "mis-gendered" with "wrong pronouns".
Their whole thing is trying to re-define fantasy, into """the REAL Truth""".
A lot of this happens because the brain recieve a rush of hormones it is not used to.
Interesting! Very curious about her self-perception in terms of wanting to be male around sexuality. Since she's a heterosexual woman, did she perceive herself to be a gay man? And more about her relationship with her male fiance during that time.
At the time of recording I was processing a flush of comments under a video critical of me, which comments were insisting I am a “creep,” and so didn’t feel relaxed and confident enough to respectfully ask Grace if she was willing to share that aspect of the topic.
@@BenjaminABoyce Was that video from KD?
@Benjamin A Boyce I'm surprised you care about the opinions of others when they seem so far removed from reality. Why would accusations of being a creep bother you if you're secure in the knowledge that you are not? Remember, you made a pun, some people laughed, some people cried, you didn't flash anyone. Don't lose a sense of perspective just because others around you have.
@@BenjaminABoyce I'm sorry to hear that. You're an excellent interviewer. No creepy vibes whatsoever. You do a great job being respectful.
The tumblr thing sort of makes me think. A lot of social media and trying to get attention revolves around tags. When you mentioned 'fairy-like' I immediately thought of cottagecore because it's a tag I look up on instagram to feel things. There's a million of these -core names to represent aesthetics that is in a way like genders or sexualities. People want to narrow down what they think they are so they can be looked up or look up people of the same type.
Coincidentally a lot of the "cores" will have LGBT people saying it belongs to them.
The first thing a gender identity class teacher should say on the first day, "each look in your pants...that is what you are...class dismissed".