Thank you so much for this comparison! Especially the actual flying weight considering fuel consumption amounts, the weight really comes close to balancing out. Between not mixing fuel and low maintenance this seems like such a win win.
Thanks for sharing your insight. I fly a Simononi engine now, and I can’t complain about reliability but it’s just too loud. EOS Quattro will most probably be the next motor. Greetings from Austria!
Nice comparison between the factory R and the EOS, I currently have a MY19 moster, and an air conception dual start nitro 200. And I’m going to Florida end of this month to get my tandem exemption at one up adventures. Cosmos 300 is my next purchase on a fly products strike
Someone in the comments mentioned a 4stroke with fuel injection. I have seen a ParaTrike with an SwissAuto 250 engine. One cylinder 250cc, 4stroke fuel injection. It was on a Fresh Breeze Bullix.
that's it, i'm getting the EOS. I'm so done with dealing with twostrokes it's either this or going electric, but electric is too heavy and doesn't have the range.
Thank you for this comparison! I just got the Eos quattro and I'm loving it but I too am nervous about the valve adjustment. You mentioned Eos has an instructional video for it. I can't find it. Can you please attach a link for that? I'd really appreciate that!!!!! Thank you again!!
Any updates on the Quattro? I've ordered a Cronus with a Quattro and a Colibri trike. Should be in by the end of January. Wing won't be here till end of February or first of March. Getting the Apco F5. Just curious if you've had a chance to put any more time on it with the cold weather.
Hi Trent, Great video, thank you for all the good information you provide in all your videos. I am about to get into PPG and are looking to start buying equipment. In your opinion, would the EOS 4strke be a good choice for trike flying ?
Awesome thanks! It depends on your elevation and weight. If you're as big as me (6'2" 245 pounds) taking off at nearly 5,000 feet above sea level, I would consider a Factory R or Polini 202 on a trike due to the extra weight. If it's a dedicated trike then the Cosmos 300 or Polini 303. If you're at sea level, you can use the standard Moster or EOS Quattro with no issues with the added weight of the trike.
Great review, you covered everything I could think of, I’d be keen to see how long the Eos lasts and what if any problem it has over the coming months. The sound of a four stroke is so much nicer and less intrusive so it’s hands down a win, as long as it has the reliability, something the the Eos 150 didn’t have..
@@trentwhitney8346 I freaking HATE 2 stroke engines. How is the 4 stroke holding up for you? Im only 125lbs and fly a moster. LOVED my atom, but simply didnt have the power. Im wondering if the quattro is a viable replace for the moster. Not diggin the extra weight (4 lbs?), but I bet its offset in fuel savings for the most part. Keep us updated, I REALLY want a 4 stroker to be a good option.
@@shanesplanetshane3795 I ended up selling the Quattro to try a Polini 202 for fun. I loved the Quattro! It had the best linear throttle so far, but I'm currently really liking the Polini Thor 202.
@@trentwhitney8346 Interesting. I guess being a 4-stroke, doesnt have as much benefit as one would hope. Damn. I really like the idea of a quiet, gas sipping and smooth motor. If the eos was ALL of those things, you'd still have it, tis my guess.
@@shanesplanetshane3795 I will likely have another one in the future. Just waiting for some of the development pains to get ironed out. I absolutely loved the sound, fuel economy, torque and how quiet and pleasant it sounded! My favorite cross country machine!
Great video and information. Where did you purchase the Quattro? Was it an option from Power2fly? If so what is the cost difference between it and the Moster 185?
@@trentwhitney8346 Thanks for the reply. I've gotten in touch with Darren at CarolinaPPG and he's quoted me some prices. Now to decide which way I want to go. I'm really leaning to the EOS. I've had many 2 stoke engines in the past and they are just so temperamental sometime. The readability of a 4 stroke really appeals to me and I like it being a little quieter. Thanks again for the great videos and information. Subscribing to your channel for sure.
Great video. Wondering if you would do a short one on how your wing is hung in your garage for clean out. Being a newer pilot I have yet to find an easy way to do this. Thanks.
Hi Trent do you give lessons or do you know of some places that would do lessons on paragliding or parameter? I’m just down the road from you in Blackfoot. Thanks
Nice video Trent, I’ve been flying the 185 Vittorazi for around 6 years own two setups both have mild torque on throttle but definitely noisy and vibration is some times to much love flying long flights when i take them out also have been Paragliding for a few years and the nice thing about paragliding is the quiet and no motor vibration. So how much torque is the Quattro putting out more on torque then the 185 ? Thanks
Yes! The EOS is smoother than my 185 and much quieter. If I want to go out and rip around I prefer the Factory R. But I just added a cruise control throttle to my Quattro and it is a dream to fly long flights. Quiet, smooth (especially with a 3-blade), effortless when cruising and the throttle is linear. Want to go upside down and roll? I prefer the Factory R.
Looking to talk with a dealer for the EOS Quattro Trent, haven’t found a dealer in USA any recommendations ? Nice comparison video whats the price over $ 10,000 ? Thanks Trent
@@ChrisJewell7333 Boise Paramotors is the only importer, I believe, in the U.S. I think the machine is now around 9 or 10k. It’s had a couple of price increases and I had the Gen 1 of the current motor. I think they are now on Gen 3 and the price has definitely gone up.
@@trentwhitney8346 Gen 3 how exciting ! I’ll have to look up the Gen 3 see whats new and the pricing I’ll get ahold of Boise paramotors. Side note: as a child leaved in Idaho and would go to winter festivals ice sculpture contests, riding snowmobiles in Caldwell Idaho do they still have the winter festivals?
The EOS Quattro has 30.2 horsepower. The Moster 185 has 25 horsepower. The EOS weighs 19.8 kilograms compared to the Moster 185 dual start at 15.6 kilograms. But loaded up with fuel for 90 minutes of flight they are super close because you’ll carry less fuel in the Quattro.
Sorry, I don’t know. The EOS has a mounting plate between the frame and motor, which I assume adapts it. Not sure if this is something Power2Fly put together or something EOS provided.
Interesting numbers. The factory R just drinks fuel. I've been flying my nitro 200 for 5 years now, and my average fuel burn is 3.2 to 3.5 liters per hour flying a 24m at 310lbs all up.
In my experience, everything I fly drinks fuel up here. My cruise RPMs for level flight are typically 6,000-6,500 where I fly. I’ve only occasionally dropped down to LZ’s that are about 2,000 feet above sea level and my cruise dropped to 5,000 - 5,500 rpm which would be considerably less fuel burn.
I'm not so worried about fuel consumption as I am reliability. Two strokes are notoriously unreliable. Is this 4-stroke Quattro any more reliable? I have two Mosters and have had my fair share of problems and engine outs.
Hi Trent, when you are going to lean it. You'll go from 128 to 126, right? Is it only the main jet you're gonna change? Any other settings to be done as well? Like needle to be set higher/lower etc?
Flying mainly at sea level up to 1500ft. Main jet in use ( standard) is 130. But never reached 8100rpm just being at 7600max and consumption is about 3,3L/h on Dudek Hadron 3 22. My weight might be similar to yours.
@@mike413 I would gradually step it down. Fly a 128 and check your plug after a couple of flights. Then see if you need to drop again. Are you flying a 140cm prop? If yes, I'm not sure they get to 8100rpm. 7650 is the best I ever saw and typically 7300 max at my elevation.
Flying a 130 Prop developed especially for Quattro to reach 8100-8200. Last time when I was checking Plug it was brown with direction to dark brown. My assumption was it can go leaner.
Nice work. I live at 400 MSL and will fly up to 4000 often and 8000 less often. I don't know if I will mess with jets but I'm interested in how hard that is and how it goes for you.
Good stuff! It’s super easy. Flip the carburetor upside down, remove the three bolts that hold on the bowl, remove the bowl and the jet is the highest point. Unscrew it and put in the next size. Super easy, and I had never done it before.
I'll see what I can do. At full power its as loud as anything else due to the propeller tips approaching the speed of sound. At idle it's about as loud as anything with a muffler. It is whisper quite at cruise power and a small climb, or flying over people/animals as long as you're not at full power. Probably so stealthy due to the frequency of the muffler and due to the fact it's pointed straight in the air above you.
I have been checking this motor out, What do you think if it was in a ultralight tractor total empty weight of 253 lbs, you think it would fly a plane like that 170 lb pilot 30 lbs fuel, total weight 453
I know EOS has run bigger props than a 140 on it on ultralights. You might reach out to EOS on Facebook or Messenger. The boss at EOS, Rolland, has been awesome to respond when I’ve had questions. I think it would work fine- especially closer to sea level.
@@trentwhitney8346 thanks I'll check, I'll check e prop also, I talked to them once and if you have all the specs plane and engine they make a prop for it soecifically
honestly something is wrong with your carb high-jet settings if you're burning more than 8l/h on any Moster, even if you're heavy on a wing at altitude... For reference, I'm on an MY20 with a 24M wing, and overweigt range by 20kg on the wing, and still seeing only 4.25l/hr at 3000ft launch
Think about taking off in a 777 with the engines of a 737 and at higher elevation. Both planes have pretty much the same wing loading. They will both glide fine if the engines quit. If the 777 could even get in the air it would be at full power all the time. And burn a ton more fuel. This is across the board no matter what engine I fly. It’s the trust to weight ratio. I’m in the top 1% of all pilots for weight and I fly from high elevations. If wing loading was the only variable we’d all be on Atom 80s. Your cruise for level flight is likely 800-1200 rpm less than me. I need 5900-6100 for level flight. That alone will burn significantly more fuel. I also fly in the mountains.
I will take a 4-stroke over a 2 stroke any day, much more reliable, better fuel economy, no fowled plugs and if you have a 4 stroke on a Trike, you can get a Fuel Injected motor that never needs adjusted for altitude changes..
It’s simply impossible to burn 1/2 the fuel with a 4 Stroke engine . Your 2 stroke must run way way way to rich in part/cruise power .Fouled spark plugs tell the story . The air fuel mixture is approximately the same on both engine types , mor on the rich side with high power setting’s on the 2 stroke .
Thank you so much for this comparison! Especially the actual flying weight considering fuel consumption amounts, the weight really comes close to balancing out. Between not mixing fuel and low maintenance this seems like such a win win.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice review. Thanks for your input. I'm actually looking at that engine for myself. Happy x-mas to you. Many hugs from Sweden. Best regards - Magnus
Thanks much! You too!
Appreciate this thoughtful comparison!
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your insight. I fly a Simononi engine now, and I can’t complain about reliability but it’s just too loud. EOS Quattro will most probably be the next motor. Greetings from Austria!
@@UlfRflying awesome thanks! Enjoy!
That eos sounds amazing, reminds me of a childhood xr75 I rode the wheels off of.
Thanks- It does sound awesome!
Nice comparison between the factory R and the EOS, I currently have a MY19 moster, and an air conception dual start nitro 200. And I’m going to Florida end of this month to get my tandem exemption at one up adventures. Cosmos 300 is my next purchase on a fly products strike
Awesome! Good luck! Thanks!
Someone in the comments mentioned a 4stroke with fuel injection. I have seen a ParaTrike with an SwissAuto 250 engine. One cylinder 250cc, 4stroke fuel injection. It was on a Fresh Breeze Bullix.
@@UlfRflying the Aero 1000 is Fuel Injected from Blackhawk. Too heavy for foot launch.
Sensations my friend.
Your movie it's great.
Hugs from Brazil.
Thanks so much! Fly safe!
that's it, i'm getting the EOS. I'm so done with dealing with twostrokes it's either this or going electric, but electric is too heavy and doesn't have the range.
I find myself flying it more than my Factory R right now.
Thank you for this comparison! I just got the Eos quattro and I'm loving it but I too am nervous about the valve adjustment. You mentioned Eos has an instructional video for it. I can't find it. Can you please attach a link for that? I'd really appreciate that!!!!! Thank you again!!
@@fbrummitt the link I had is not working. Bad link. You might reach out to EOS.
Now I wonder how it would stack up against the Moster new EFI. Thats going to be the next comparison.
Any updates on the Quattro? I've ordered a Cronus with a Quattro and a Colibri trike. Should be in by the end of January. Wing won't be here till end of February or first of March. Getting the Apco F5. Just curious if you've had a chance to put any more time on it with the cold weather.
Yes! I've flown it several times in the cold and snow, including on New Years Day. It's been awesome! I climbed up to almost 8000 feet that day.
Nice review.
Thanks much!
Hi Trent, Great video, thank you for all the good information you provide in all your videos. I am about to get into PPG and are looking to start buying equipment. In your opinion, would the EOS 4strke be a good choice for trike flying ?
Awesome thanks! It depends on your elevation and weight. If you're as big as me (6'2" 245 pounds) taking off at nearly 5,000 feet above sea level, I would consider a Factory R or Polini 202 on a trike due to the extra weight. If it's a dedicated trike then the Cosmos 300 or Polini 303. If you're at sea level, you can use the standard Moster or EOS Quattro with no issues with the added weight of the trike.
Great comparisons, thx 👏
Thanks!
Great review, you covered everything I could think of, I’d be keen to see how long the Eos lasts and what if any problem it has over the coming months.
The sound of a four stroke is so much nicer and less intrusive so it’s hands down a win, as long as it has the reliability, something the the Eos 150 didn’t have..
Thanks! We shall see!
@@trentwhitney8346 I freaking HATE 2 stroke engines. How is the 4 stroke holding up for you? Im only 125lbs and fly a moster. LOVED my atom, but simply didnt have the power. Im wondering if the quattro is a viable replace for the moster. Not diggin the extra weight (4 lbs?), but I bet its offset in fuel savings for the most part. Keep us updated, I REALLY want a 4 stroker to be a good option.
@@shanesplanetshane3795 I ended up selling the Quattro to try a Polini 202 for fun. I loved the Quattro! It had the best linear throttle so far, but I'm currently really liking the Polini Thor 202.
@@trentwhitney8346 Interesting. I guess being a 4-stroke, doesnt have as much benefit as one would hope. Damn. I really like the idea of a quiet, gas sipping and smooth motor. If the eos was ALL of those things, you'd still have it, tis my guess.
@@shanesplanetshane3795 I will likely have another one in the future. Just waiting for some of the development pains to get ironed out. I absolutely loved the sound, fuel economy, torque and how quiet and pleasant it sounded! My favorite cross country machine!
Great work bro
Thanks bro!
Great video and information. Where did you purchase the Quattro? Was it an option from Power2fly? If so what is the cost difference between it and the Moster 185?
Contact Boise Paramotors and Zman can get you accurate pricing. I think mine was only $200 more than a Moster 185 dual start on a Power2Fly Cronus.
@@trentwhitney8346 Thanks for the reply. I've gotten in touch with Darren at CarolinaPPG and he's quoted me some prices. Now to decide which way I want to go. I'm really leaning to the EOS. I've had many 2 stoke engines in the past and they are just so temperamental sometime. The readability of a 4 stroke really appeals to me and I like it being a little quieter. Thanks again for the great videos and information. Subscribing to your channel for sure.
Awesome! Happy to help!
@@trentwhitney8346was it really that close in price? Can you let us know a rough price?
If it really is that close its a no brainer
@@vauxscott I believe it's $300 more for the dual start EOS Quattro over the dual start Moster.
How big are the hoops from these 2 0:29 with the 140props? 150 or 155
The hoop is 155cm.
Great video. Wondering if you would do a short one on how your wing is hung in your garage for clean out. Being a newer pilot I have yet to find an easy way to do this. Thanks.
Sure, I'll see if I can do that in the next week or so.
EOS Quattro 4-Stroke Paramotor Engine, engine price with prop?
I’m not a dealer, but I’m guessing $4500-$5000 with a prop.
Who is the dealer ?@@trentwhitney8346
Hi Trent do you give lessons or do you know of some places that would do lessons on paragliding or parameter? I’m just down the road from you in Blackfoot. Thanks
I don’t personally give lessons, but I can give you recommendations. Call me at Idaho Water Sports in Idaho Falls.
Nice video Trent, I’ve been flying the 185 Vittorazi for around 6 years own two setups both have mild torque on throttle but definitely noisy and vibration is some times to much love flying long flights when i take them out also have been Paragliding for a few years and the nice thing about paragliding is the quiet and no motor vibration. So how much torque is the Quattro putting out more on torque then the 185 ? Thanks
Yes! The EOS is smoother than my 185 and much quieter. If I want to go out and rip around I prefer the Factory R. But I just added a cruise control throttle to my Quattro and it is a dream to fly long flights. Quiet, smooth (especially with a 3-blade), effortless when cruising and the throttle is linear. Want to go upside down and roll? I prefer the Factory R.
@@trentwhitney8346 thanks for your input Trent.
Looking to talk with a dealer for the EOS Quattro Trent, haven’t found a dealer in USA any recommendations ? Nice comparison video whats the price over $ 10,000 ? Thanks Trent
@@ChrisJewell7333 Boise Paramotors is the only importer, I believe, in the U.S. I think the machine is now around 9 or 10k. It’s had a couple of price increases and I had the Gen 1 of the current motor. I think they are now on Gen 3 and the price has definitely gone up.
@@trentwhitney8346 Gen 3 how exciting ! I’ll have to look up the Gen 3 see whats new and the pricing I’ll get ahold of Boise paramotors. Side note: as a child leaved in Idaho and would go to winter festivals ice sculpture contests, riding snowmobiles in Caldwell Idaho do they still have the winter festivals?
@@ChrisJewell7333 I'm on the other side of the state in Pocatello, so I'm not sure. We have events like that here. Good luck!
Wow that 4 stroke sounds so much better. Like an actual airplane...
Yes! Sounds awesome!
hi whats the hp rating? compared to a moster 185? and weight?
The EOS Quattro has 30.2 horsepower. The Moster 185 has 25 horsepower.
The EOS weighs 19.8 kilograms compared to the Moster 185 dual start at 15.6 kilograms. But loaded up with fuel for 90 minutes of flight they are super close because you’ll carry less fuel in the Quattro.
Great video. Are the mounts/mounting bolts same fit as the Moster Plus?
Sorry, I don’t know. The EOS has a mounting plate between the frame and motor, which I assume adapts it. Not sure if this is something Power2Fly put together or something EOS provided.
Hey Bob…👋 been a while since I’ve seen you on UA-cam.
@@ChrisJewell7333 im keeping a low profile. 😂. Actually this cold snowy weather puts me in hibernation here in Ohio. Hope you’re doing well.
@@Ohio-PPG-Trike-Adventures yup doing great Bob weather here is pretty challenging for flying also. Good to see yeah.
Interesting numbers. The factory R just drinks fuel. I've been flying my nitro 200 for 5 years now, and my average fuel burn is 3.2 to 3.5 liters per hour flying a 24m at 310lbs all up.
In my experience, everything I fly drinks fuel up here. My cruise RPMs for level flight are typically 6,000-6,500 where I fly.
I’ve only occasionally dropped down to LZ’s that are about 2,000 feet above sea level and my cruise dropped to 5,000 - 5,500 rpm which would be considerably less fuel burn.
11:44 getting on the pipe
I'm not so worried about fuel consumption as I am reliability. Two strokes are notoriously unreliable. Is this 4-stroke Quattro any more reliable? I have two Mosters and have had my fair share of problems and engine outs.
Time will tell. But it seems reliable so far!
Hi Trent, when you are going to lean it. You'll go from 128 to 126, right? Is it only the main jet you're gonna change? Any other settings to be done as well? Like needle to be set higher/lower etc?
Correct. I did not change anything else. I would consult with EOS regarding your elevation and density altitude.
Flying mainly at sea level up to 1500ft. Main jet in use ( standard) is 130. But never reached 8100rpm just being at 7600max and consumption is about 3,3L/h on Dudek Hadron 3 22. My weight might be similar to yours.
@@mike413 I would gradually step it down. Fly a 128 and check your plug after a couple of flights. Then see if you need to drop again. Are you flying a 140cm prop? If yes, I'm not sure they get to 8100rpm. 7650 is the best I ever saw and typically 7300 max at my elevation.
Flying a 130 Prop developed especially for Quattro to reach 8100-8200. Last time when I was checking Plug it was brown with direction to dark brown. My assumption was it can go leaner.
Nice work. I live at 400 MSL and will fly up to 4000 often and 8000 less often. I don't know if I will mess with jets but I'm interested in how hard that is and how it goes for you.
Good stuff! It’s super easy. Flip the carburetor upside down, remove the three bolts that hold on the bowl, remove the bowl and the jet is the highest point. Unscrew it and put in the next size. Super easy, and I had never done it before.
Which direction does the propeller spin? Counter-clockwise?
Yes - counterclockwise.
Thanks, well done. Any crankcase oil blowby? How is it to pull start?
Yes, if you overfill past halfway of the oil fill window, it will come out of the pcv valve in small vapor droplets.
It’s easy to pull start. It has an automatic compression release.
Any chance you could take a decibel reading of both motors at idle and full power?
I'll see what I can do. At full power its as loud as anything else due to the propeller tips approaching the speed of sound. At idle it's about as loud as anything with a muffler. It is whisper quite at cruise power and a small climb, or flying over people/animals as long as you're not at full power. Probably so stealthy due to the frequency of the muffler and due to the fact it's pointed straight in the air above you.
What is the price of the Quattro estart?
The price is listed at $4,650.
I have been checking this motor out, What do you think if it was in a ultralight tractor total empty weight of 253 lbs, you think it would fly a plane like that 170 lb pilot 30 lbs fuel, total weight 453
I know EOS has run bigger props than a 140 on it on ultralights. You might reach out to EOS on Facebook or Messenger. The boss at EOS, Rolland, has been awesome to respond when I’ve had questions. I think it would work fine- especially closer to sea level.
@@trentwhitney8346 thanks I'll check, I'll check e prop also, I talked to them once and if you have all the specs plane and engine they make a prop for it soecifically
Where can I get a Quattro?
I got mine from Boise Paramotors. They were great to work with!
How do you log your flights?
Gaggle and manual logs.
Gracias!@@trentwhitney8346
How does it compare to the moster when it comes to vibrations?
Great question! It's butter smooth. Smoother than my Factory R, except at idle. I've run a 3-blade propeller too and I can't tell much difference.
New sub! Excellent video!
Thanks!
honestly something is wrong with your carb high-jet settings if you're burning more than 8l/h on any Moster, even if you're heavy on a wing at altitude...
For reference, I'm on an MY20 with a 24M wing, and overweigt range by 20kg on the wing, and still seeing only 4.25l/hr at 3000ft launch
Unless he's just wide open throttle for most of the flight.
Think about taking off in a 777 with the engines of a 737 and at higher elevation. Both planes have pretty much the same wing loading. They will both glide fine if the engines quit. If the 777 could even get in the air it would be at full power all the time. And burn a ton more fuel.
This is across the board no matter what engine I fly. It’s the trust to weight ratio. I’m in the top 1% of all pilots for weight and I fly from high elevations.
If wing loading was the only variable we’d all be on Atom 80s.
Your cruise for level flight is likely 800-1200 rpm less than me. I need 5900-6100 for level flight. That alone will burn significantly more fuel. I also fly in the mountains.
where did you get your quattro
Boise Paramotors- Zman has been great to work with!
@@trentwhitney8346 yes I found him before I found you, but wasn't sure if he was going to be a source, I'll check with him thanks
Wish i could fly this
wow, it is much more quieter than the 185. I'm on a trike anyway.
It would be great on a trike!
I will take a 4-stroke over a 2 stroke any day, much more reliable, better fuel economy, no fowled plugs and if you have a 4 stroke on a Trike, you can get a Fuel Injected motor that never needs adjusted for altitude changes..
Agreed!
It’s simply impossible to burn 1/2 the fuel with a 4 Stroke engine . Your 2 stroke must run way way way to rich in part/cruise power .Fouled spark plugs tell the story . The air fuel mixture is approximately the same on both engine types , mor on the rich side with high power setting’s on the 2 stroke .
You are welcome to come fly with me as your opinion may change.