How to Handle the DARVO Method
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- DARVO is an acronym for Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim Offender. It is a term first coined by Psychologist Jennifer Freyd in the 1990's.
A common tactic of narcissists, it refers to a form of manipulation which is aimed at shifting the focus from any wrong doing, to avoid any consequences, and attacking the victim in ways that allows them to switch roles. So the aggressor become the victim, the victim the aggressor.
This video outlines some ideas to help manage yourself and your boundaries better when dealing with someone using the DARVO method.
What causes Narcissistic Collapse?
• What Causes Narcissist...
What happens when you ignore a narcissist?
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Please feel free to suggest any topics you might like me to cover in future videos
Eating disorders in perfect families.
How to maintain customer care tone of voice during the attack phase of DARVO.
Darren, your videos have been so helpful. Thank you. Suggestion: how to love and cope when your adult children are the main flying monkeys. ❤
The death of the PN parent and how it. How to manage the brother, and family. Please.
The addictions of the golden child. Too.
you made a video about INFJ, what about the other 15?
'There's no shame in being lied to or lied about.' Thanks for that, because it can sure feel humiliating.
It's NOT your fault. These people are sick AF. I'm Yarrg, The Workplace Abuse Expert. :) I deal with these types all of the time
Yeah it suck
Understanding DARVO is a game changer. It brings the control back to yourself as the innocent one. What’s crazy is I’ve seen it play out so much with little kids but I would never recognize it in adults because part of me thought why on earth would an adult behave like a toddler? Lol
"Pointing out their actions, the impact of their actions, setting a boundary, to them, is the most cruel, selfish, unkind, evil thing anyone could ever do to a fellow human being. But they honestly think that that's being unreasonable. Then just be unreasonable." Wow, words to live by. Thank you so much.
Indeed here Darren describes a cognitive disfunction which we need to be aware of, in order to avoid uselessly exhausting ourselves in a way that is but a game to them, making folks their toys .
@@danswhite8544 Yes, academic degrees sometimes merely feed ego, an attitude of anything less than a cerebral understanding and an active capacity to empathize does not equal compassion, hence does not yield respect for a patient . Clients are humans first and
will respond heartfully, when they are first
heard.
I had to tell the person what they done t me..as it was making me ill
This is true of people with BPD, also. They have a huge streak of narcissism.
BPD people.will do long term conspiracies, setting up for years and years to get revenge on someone.
They enjoy destroying a person and will continue to destroy their reputation long after they're even dead.
People with BPD are quite dangerous.- they're classification as in the dark cluster B personalities.
There's a lot of power in being able to calmly say: "that's not true."
Rule # 1: believe in yourself enough to disregard anything they say about you.
Maybe instead, know yourself to such an extent that it becomes easy to tell apart abusive blame-shifting/gaslighting from sincere feedback about your real mistakes or shortcomings.
@@Minisynapseexactly. I think once you’ve become aware after repeating cycles, it’s hard to ignore. I’m not sure how majority of cruel people end up in relationships with sensitive and caring people. But it’s something to remember when you’re made to feel like you’re “the bad guy” and all you wanted to do was have a normal, healthy adult communication.
“There is no shame in being on the wrong side of a narcissist” - Thank you! I get mad at myself for “having let myself be fooled”
So do I.
@@frankG335 they prey on the most empathetic among us.. Don't be ashamed bcs empathy is the nobliest human emotion 💓
We must show Our True Selves the empathy that narcs exploit endlessly💓
As an academically trained family therapist myself, although I have not practiced for many years, I employed the Darvo method protections without even knowing what it was. I was trained never to show fear when dealing with abuse from a mentally ill person. So I never showed fear when dealing with my covert narcissist, abuser. Also, I did not engage with him as I realized very quickly I was wasting my breath. Additionally, I would never reinforce his behavior by acknowledging the pain He worked so hard to inflict on me. I would always look at him directly, and calmly, and say to him, I will not allow the ugly in you to take away from the beauty in me. That was my mantra that I repeated over and over and over during the one year of his abuse before I was able to escape him.
“I will NOT allow the UGLY IN YOU to take away from the BEAUTY IN ME” 🏆🥇💥☄️🔥
Powerful mantra, thank you!! ❤
@@spaideman7850 that would be exhausting
@@TYGZus777 no choice, that venomous snake felt its her rights to control/destroy anybody she wishes, and she just won't listen.
There's a difference between a client or patient yelling at you and an abusive partner. With the former, you don't assume a tough, "I'm not scared of you" posture. You do your best to remain calm and de-escalate.
it is wild. learning narc abuse is like learning a martial art you don't know how to defend, attack it without training and practice.
Yes, I call it mental Kung-Fu.
Yes it was painful to discover id been smeared to cousins and aunts. Its so unfair.
5:50 "using your 'customer care' tone of voice" ...YES, that's perfect.
This is a brilliant idea, and it also reminds you much you need to keep your focus in the moment and don’t show any reaction
OMG yes I do that without being aware of it! 😂😂😂
Sometimes it‘s the only way to be heard and not loose your cool…
"Wets the bed and blames the blanket." ahahaha ROFLOL accurate tho. Perfectly accurate.
The narcs in my family are just like this. My mother will drop something on the floor then turn around to me and say "Now look what you made me do!".
Keep a journal. Truthful note-taking helps you stay on track in the face of lies. Narcissists will relentlessly try to make you believe their lies and they may succeed at making you doubt yourself. Record events faithfully and factually so that when the narcissist in your life starts to gaslight you or deny events, go to the date they are talking about and read what actually happened. It's immensely helpful. You don't have to share the record with anyone but yourself. Do not tell the narcissist about your journal. Keeping a journal will provide you with a record you can read. It will keep you sane until you can get away from that particular narcissist. Getting away and ending it should be the goal.
You don't need a journal as EVERYTHING they ever say is a lie or a manipulation. Literally no truth ever comes out of their mouths. You may have a rare admission of who they are once in a blue moon (my father once said 'I am only happy when others are suffering') but they will never ever admit they said it ever so don't waste your time. Don't bother calling them out as they will outwit you every move. Unless you want to become an arch manipulator yourself then there is no point wasting any breath on them. They have utterly wasted their own lives, don't let them waste yours. Don't take revenge, God will do that. The best revenge is having joy in your life that they can never touch or have for themselves. Your joy and peace eats away at them and every good thing that happens to you is their death by a thousand cuts. If you want to imagine who they really resemble most, think of Satan and then you won't be far off. They are anti-human and anti-christ.
In front of witnesses, see yourself as being a good example for them with how you handle the narcissist (this is especially important when kids are witnessing it), and you WILL BE a good example. They likely have to deal with the same narcissist, so you’re helping them. This keeps you from thinking emotionally, keeps your body chemicals calm (which you, as an adult, are responsible for controlling your own body chemicals - children aren’t able to), and it prevents you from worrying that others are taking the side of the narcissist.
You can only control yourself, not others, so don’t waste your time trying to change/control what others think - that’s what narcissists do, spend your time on growing spiritually (inner self), and everything in your life will fall into place as long as you seek to grow and live life to your full potential.
I really appreciate this video is not about how to win against a narcissist. Thank you for the reminder that trying to win is a losing tactic.
You can't win. They are so pathetic that this is all they live for, to win this 'game'. They have no other purpose in life but a toxic defence which usually gets them to strike first. They are paranoid and terrified of being unmasked. There is little point trying to unmask them though as then it will be a scorched earth fight to the death. The best thing to do is to cut all Narcissists out of your life for good and learn to spot them more easily to avoid them in the future. Be careful with making any new attachments as these types are everywhere now.
I have managed to whittle it down and it is only my Narc dad I have any real contact with. I have cut out all the others. The only reason I still see my dad is so I can help my mum but she already has fleas. I have told her that if she becomes as abusive as him then I won't visit her either. She is the only relationship in my family that is real, I have already lost my sister to a Narcissist. If my mother becomes one too then I will move on without them all.
@@lastthingsbiblestudy I can relate so much. hope you're ok!
@@thescapegoatclub thank you so much for your concern. I am sorry but I was very angry when I wrote that last comment. I have realised that I have watched what seems like millions of videos about narcissism and I still feel that they 'run rings round me'. Even the ones who aren't well educated 'run rings round me'. I have come to the conclusion that this is actually a war against us and the thing we are dealing with isn't human but has a far superior but evil intelligence. The narcissist is human of course but has become a 'host' to an entity that isn't. I believe that the narcissist invited this entity inside them at a moment of crisis (possibly in childhood). One UA-cam commenter said something that blew my mind on this. He said that there are three parts to a narcissist 1) the false self 2) the frightened child 3) the dark entity.
We rarely see the true narcissist human self, that is the frightened 'inner child' that sits on the back seat terrified all the time. We do see this true part of the Narcissist, their true self during a Narcissistic collapse, during decompostion. There may be times when we see this person come and go, probably the times when the Narcissist is acting very immature for their age and during the tantrums and childish demands and neediness for example.
The rest of the time we either see the false self (the grandiose/ perfect mask) or the dark entity.
We see the masked false self during lovebombing, intermittent reinforcement and hoovering. It is this mask that people fall for and love. It is a total illusion and a mere reflection of your own self that the narcissist has learned to mimic, the mask is fake.
During the devaluation and discard phase we see the dark entity. It is clear that this dark entity that has possessed the frightened child wants one of two things : 1) our worship 2) our destruction
I study the Bible a great deal and I think Narcissism is clear cut demon possession. The problem is we live in modern times now that no longer believes in such things and uses fancy psychiatric terms that only a hundred or so years ago was described as a spiritual possession not a crisis of personality.
You know that the Narcissist has no personality. If you research Borderlines you will see that they struggle with their personality too but have a different maladaptive pattern to cope with this fact.
It seems with Cluster B's that the 'inner child', the real personality is completely stunted because the demon drives the car so to speak. What people love in a narcissist is a demon pretending to be a human. Not just a human, a super human. A god even. We fall for this illusion of Mr or Mrs wonderful or the perfect parent but then it all goes sour. They were never wonderful but they gave us a show of what we think wonderful should be.
As a Christian I believe that only Jesus is truly wonderful. That as God in the flesh, He loved us enough to die for us. When we read the sermon on the mount, we know that it is wonderful what He says.
The Narcissist version of 'wonderful' is actually a superficial performance of flattery and charisma. How many of us thought they were wonderful at some point? We need to re-examine what it was about them that we thought was so wonderful (we thought was deserving of our praise and worship as a false idol).
It seems that it is a mix of flattery, charisma and our own values and traits being mirrored back to ourselves. Is it true that we are actually falling in love with our own reflection? Maybe when we think they are wonderful we are actually thinking that of ourselves as it is our own reflection? Perhaps.
I am ashamed to say that I have recently fallen for another one. I had an adult education teacher and again I called him 'wonderful'. Why? Because he flattered me, gave me lots of attention, made me feel noticed and special but we now know this to be the lovebombing. There was something else though, he seemed genuinely kind at times and allowed himself to be vulnerable and sensitive around me by sharing his weaknesses after I did. We also know though that this is mirroring our own values and also our weaknesses back to us. I can't believe I fell for it again as I know this stuff!!
It is easier to fall for than you think as what they do is mirror an ideal version of yourself back to you as a 'soul mate'. The problem with this is it actually encourages a type of narcissism in ourselves, a form of idealised self love.
What I have realised is that this 'soul mate' ideal is a fairytale and only a relationship with God can give us this deep and profound loving relationship we all crave. In terms of life partners and family, it is normal and healthy to have people who are different to us and yet are complimentary, nurturing and loving. A mature person (one who is mature spiritually) will have a unique sense of self and be separate from others in themselves and yet can relate deeply to other people who have different personalities to themselves without fear or neediness. This is what I am working on for myself now. I also realise that a Narcissist often comes to us as a saviour. I don't need a saviour as I already have the real deal in Jesus.
I am sorry for the long winded reply, you may not agree with my perspective on this but I hope it has some value and insight on your healing journey. God bless you for your kindness.
If you carefully observe... 1. Narcissist has no self awareness, 2. No identity of their own.... And it's something more than a psychological disorder... Evil elements lurking...just hidden beneath the false facade.
Good analysis and I think the only way out from these kind who have braved out successfully from these types are those who have faith in God.... That says something
One thing I've learned when the DARVO method was being employed against me (not that I knew it was the DARVO method at the time) is to focus on the fact that everybody has an opinion about me. This opinion has nothing to do with me or my personality necessarily. It doesn't define who I am as a person, but it reveals a whole lot about the other person. This viewpoint helped me stay grounded many times, but it takes a lot if practice.
If I have some important things to share with my covert narcissist wife, I find it most helpful to pick one thing and stay laser focused on that one thing. Expect DARVO and stay focused on one idea. And, I say something to the tune of “you can take it for what it’s worth.” With the idea that at least I said the thing. If they accept it they accept. At least I said it.
I have spent many years not saying the thing to avoid the fight or saying the many things and getting lost in the DARVO fight.
One thing per conversation.
I've found that asking them a lot of questions works. Ones that corner them. So that when they answer, it exposes them. Asking someone a question triggers a different part of the brain, and forces them out of their script. And if they continue to whine and cry "victim", you ask the question, "So, are you suggesting that your perception of the issue is the only one that matters?" And so on... It gets easier the more you do it.
Narcissists state their feelings as "facts", which they are NOT. Carefully designed questions (that come off as sincere and caring), but corner them into exposure, is the best!! Quite comical actually 😂
Beautiful. Love it. Thank you!
Love this idea! Throws them off course
@@ginafarley6190 I was recently told I was selfish for having to work instead of coming over 🤦♀️ I had the option not to work, but I need the money to pay a bill, so chose to be responsible. He said, "this just shows who you are. And I owe WAY more than you!" Totally shamed me for doing the right thing and saying we could get together another night. I asked if he considered it wrong to take care of yourself and your obligations. I got no response. 😂 We haven't spoken in days now. Stonewalling me for being responsible. Why? Because he's jealous. His life is a GIANT mess. Not my problem.
They are dreadfully comical characters.
So true!!
I can see how almost every time I used boundaries with certain people it fell into the Darvo formula. Can see how I learned to become silent over time and be left holding the guilt bag.
I can think of so many examples and how they recruit flying monkeys. Good pair of videos.
This is excellent! I appreciate your video. What is so sad is when your own children turn into flying monkeys to please the Personality Disorder who has instilled “blind loyalty (which was in one of the comments).”
I love that your title does not include the word narcissist! 25 years...my kids have been turned into flying monkeys. I was told 10 years ago when I tried to put boundaries in place...he looked at me with cold dead eyes and said...if you leave everyone will know it was your fault. I ended up recording him for hours (500)...he knows I recorded after I left. He is shut down however, he became very vindictive.
Either ways they are vindictive. They are vindictive by nature and choice. Whatever you do is meaningless in that sense. 😢😢
Ughhhhh...I hear ya!
My kids have become flying monkeys too. Alienated from them 12 yrs now.
I never could've imagined this....
The narcissistic " spell" is certainly a real thing.
It's more common than not for them to align with the narc and reject you out of the induced blind loyalty. So sad.
Blessings to you! 🙏
They actually DO pull others into their positions on the relationship. Interestingly the tactics used to isolate does make this threat more effective. I’ve been quite isolated for a variety of reasons so the narcissist’s in my life I’m attempting to distance from really can do harm by bringing mutual connections into their story. Initially the explanation for my distance is by inference expressing “concern” that I’m not doing well. True - I’m not doing well when engaging with persons where I’m consistently being ignored, triangulated and dominated. Ugh. If the she is unwell story doesn’t make sense they superimpose how hard they’ve worked and hurt they are at my response aka distancing. I need friends and social ties badly but the drama, hot and cold along with manipulation among mutual friends carries too high emotional price. I’ve tried to navigate engaging with this personality but there’s just not enough upside. She knows I am new in town and would like company but appears to perversely enjoy excluding me, demanding I follow her multiple rules, intricate transaction monitoring etc. while pretending she wants to engage in a genuine relationship. Pattern of “future faking” casually throwing out ideas for “plans” to do something together which never happens. I do get to listen to a recitation of all the things she’s done and plans to do with other people. Whenever I initiate a specific plan for these activities it turns into a twisting turning back and forth convoluted aversive process of how when and where that winds up I’m going to have to wedge myself in when it doesn’t work well even though I’m very flexible. Oddly despite avoiding any commitment she becomes angry and demands to know WHY she wasn’t included in the very few things I do with mutual acquaintances. Almost always she had been asked but had other plans. It’s obvious she’s not comfortable with my being included. When she is present she behaves exclusively or criticizes my contributions so I’m just done with this pattern. She has made it clear she prefers not to “mix” people. Mutual acquaintances don’t see it, acquiesce or defy her wishes then ignore the fallout. I can’t handle witnessing or experiencing this behavior. It’s very aggressive. People excuse it as just “her” spunky personality but then fawn and do whatever they can to meet her demands and standards for being together. This usually includes very specific foods and wines, freebies are highly desired and limited topics of conversation especially between other people who are present. Also must accept irritable outbursts whenever justified. My nervous system is a wreck just thinking about hanging around someone like this. Now I’m being held accountable by others for declining politely attempting to limit my exposure. They tolerate these “quirks” and see me as the person having a “problem” I guess to explain my intolerance/limits. Suspect there are explanations containing insinuations coming from the individual who acts up. Expected but not welcome.
Likely I’ll lose more than the poison breadcrumbs the “friend” down the street offers me. Acceptance of more isolation is a necessary challenge in this situation.
I basically told me when he used DARVO; I responded " you have every right to feel what you feel, I can understand why you might feel this way, and I have to accept that; I take full responsibility for my part and I stand by my truth as God is my witness. That was the last thing I told him.
Thank you Darren, it's surprising how many people use these despicable tactics. It's hard to escape, but I was trained by the best - my parents. I taught myself as a small child not to react when provoked - for starters. Passive resistance at seven years old Lol 😁 It drove them crazy!! What a kid! Godspeed ✝️🙏♥️
I think my parents know that if we had a conversation, I could gain some ground so they deny attack, reverse victim and offender followed immediately by a 3 year silent treatment.
But the amount of energy needed to defend yourself against these people? Often not worth it. Better to get out of the situation
The problem is not that you can't leave the abuser. The problem is that you THINK/BELIEVE that you can't leave the abuser.
Change your thinking to change your life.
Remember to stay safe. Darren uses the words "Vindictive, callous and sadistic" - he forgot to add violent. Long before I knew anything much about narcissism my brother pulled a knife on me (and actually cut my then girlfriend) because I challenged him. My offense was to tell him and my mother to leave me out of their bickering and sort their problems out among themselves. My mother tried to hit me (I was 35 at the time), but dropped a milk jug instead - and that's when my brother came at me with a carving knife from the kitchen drawer. Lovely people, heh?
When you speak truth devils go ballistic. Gotta watch your back around these devils
Yes, it feels good when the good guys win! Thanks for this video.
Customer Care Tone of Voice 😂😅
Thanks it confirmed a lot. I've been following all this counsell of various life coaches and mental health education so long by now, LOL I should have also expected the part about not attempting to disprove the smear campaign nor defeat their triangulation and flying monkeys but, sadly, this can be hard.
Yes, hard as it may be, just ignore them all.
It is so strange how they ALL follow the exact same pattern.
Not strange when you consider it may be demonic possession
I always say that narcissists are all the same. Non- narcissists are each unique in their own way, yet its the narcissists that consider themselves the "special" ones.
The good advice in this video is very similar to the BIFF method from the High Conflict Institute, which is very helpful and worth checking out.
That is, make your written communication with the narcissist:
- Brief,
- Informative,
- Friendly, and
- Firm
with no:
- Apologies,
- Admonitions, or
- Advice
Doing this takes away all of the ammunition that they can use to abuse you.
The website and podcast from the High Conflict Institute is excellent.
Thank you. This is good to know.
Thanks for this helpful information 👌
I unknowingly did all this except for the advice part ~ now I know. Thanks for spelling this out ~ makes it so much easier to see a checklist when having to engage via text or email! This and you are awesome!
You described 95% of what I went thru for 9.5 yrs...i didn't realize that's why he was such an a**hole until right before I left him! Wished I knew these things yrs earlier...i'm free now, 7 yrs so far💜
I haven't seen my family for about 7 years. My younger sister called. I was emotional, almost cried- i missed her so much. She said, don't say anything..i know how you are. The reason i've been distant is the cruelty and disrespect from them. She don'ts know me 7 yrs later. She has decided, I am sensitive, so i distanced. Yes, i'm sensitive, but i'm intelligent caring and deserving of basic respect.
Funny you said about chocolate on their face. I used to say my ex was like a three-year-old with chocolate all over his face, swearing he didn't eat the chocolate cake.
Hi Darren ~ Thank you for these two on Darvo. All you say here resonates…esp keeping one’s cool in the face of their aggravated rhetoric. Only after 24 intense hours with this behaviour did I recognise these traits…full blown.
But it felt so toxic that I was reeling from the onslaught and highly skilled manoeuvres as you have so well described in Darvo 1.
Your explanation of ‘toxic amnesia’ was the real breakthrough as I did not know whether this was dementia or as you say, another angle of this behaviour.
It’s been over a week since the tirade and I am still shaken by it.
🙏🙏🙏
Your story about the work environment is stop on in that one should always begin getting things in writing from someone who shows these narcissistic tendencies. Just having them see that there will be an unbiased record of what was requested often leads to less bullying.
I've learned and many I've engaged with validate; when you begin to understand the dynamic at play they will accuse YOU of being the narcissist. It can be absolutely maddening, and is classic DARVO. Thank you Mr. Magee for providing a much needed orienting beacon and anchor.
The only thing that surprised me was when they said they didn’t understand or I was confusing them. I’m notorious for clear communication. This confused me to no end.
Narcissism is incredibly disappointing. They’re made of ironic self defense and are their own worst enemies… so much potential, and zero realization.
Thanks Darren! I work in a toxic work environment, and am prone to calling out the "elephant in the room" (among incompetent superiors, who are also narcissists), am am usually beat down for it. The tools you've provided here will help greatly.
Make yourself a list of “I am” positive affirmations of what you can believe is actually true about you. Like “I am kind, I am compassionate, I am loving, I am honest…” If you have trouble making the list, think of what your best friends would say about you. Read it aloud to yourself whenever you need to. And remember, don’t give the narcissist the pleasure of your reaction to their accusations. That’s exactly what they want! Let yourself have your reaction in private or with a safe person, where it won’t be used as ammo against you or give the narc the satisfaction.
Just set boundaries and the narcissist will leave you alone. Never have any conversation with the flying monkeys. Never try to defend yourself. I know Darren advise to keep evidence. However, what helped me a lot was to avoid keeping evidence because keeping any sort of evidence will make you want to defend / explain yourself more and more whenever the accusations come up. Trust me, those that will try to contact you to find out what happened are still the flying monkeys. So, you will spend more time explaining yourself to the flying monkeys that care less about whatever you have to say.
Great message. I absolutely LOVE that bit at the end about how your friend and her coworkers tackled a common problem that doesn't often get resolved properly.
It was a highly fortunate case indeed, with all of them cohesively coming to handle it so well together.
@@monaqualunque Right --no flying monkeys reporting the activity back to the narc is extremely fortunate!
@@BeingLifted ...and with double standards because they sure don't report vice versa!
@@monaqualunque 😔
My advice is, don't be a novelty, don't take the fall. Stand in your Sovereignty, Love reveals all.
I blocked a person using darvo and she got our whole social circle to call me and say they are concerned about my mental health because they heard I am “erratic” 🙄
I stumbled upon your video (and site). Thank you for the valuable information re DARVO. Your
kind delivery is appreciated, and when you mentioned "shame," that resonated.
In terms of suggestions, I've noticed that many professionals don't cover the issue
of Narc Abuse in non-romantic friendships. You may wish to cover that topic. And also,
I suspect that "shame" and Narc Abuse would resonate for many. Example; I feel lots
of shame for "being stupid," taking so long to recognize it. New subscriber. ThU.
I also don't watch these videoa for "Heartbreak Hotel" reasons, but for sporadic family of origin harassment (even though I live 2300 mi away for two decades from them)
I got ambushed recently and he was insisting that my setting of boundaries was unreasonable and based on inaccuracies. You all know that he was lying! He wants to 'get back to the way things were'. I repeated that that was up to him. I went into my house and even after shutting the door he continued talking. Surreal.
And if they ask to just "talk it through and work it out", you tell them that it's not your job to work out THEIR abusive and patterned behavior. That's on them. Somehow they always insist that YOU need to work it out with them. I finally caught on to this tactic. I always say, I'm not a counselor, please seek professional therapy to work out YOUR asshole issues.
@@moonstone4684 exactly. Not my zoo. Not my monkeys. I said 'It's up to you' knowing full well that he will blame me. Don't give a shit. People here know me.
@@wendysimpson6395 Before I caught on, I'd spend 5 hours on the phone until 3am, or in person, trying to get him to understand me, take accountability, always rewording things for him, giving him analogies, asking how "he would feel" if it was done to him, etc. It was pure madness!! Exhausting. And nothing ever got solved. He would always point blame to my "reaction", which was nothing more than calling him out on his bullshit. No screaming, yelling or breaking things. Nothing more than facts shown to him. And then I'd get the "what? You just took that wrong"
Once I started researching narcissism I got it. He's a covert with a victim mentality. Super generous to everyone, but will later say "I did all these things for others, and no one is here for me when I need it". Meaning he spent too much money on GIFTS for others, to get supply and admiration, and when he ran out, said THEY all used him and he was just too nice and such a wonderful person. Truth is, he went through $450K in one year drinking tequila and gambling and pretending to be a rock star, and now blames everyone else for being broke. He was in another state the entire time. And somehow, in his twisted mind, by sending me flowers and chocolate occasionally, I'm also a "user" too 🤦♀️
We hardly talk now, and I told him I'm done being emotionally abused. I ended up with tremors, exhaustion, depression, joint pain and gut health issues. I'm finally getting myself normal again, and I'll be damned if he's going to destroy that.
Love your videos thank you for your help . I state my opinion or concerns or pointing out what he did then I done with the conversation I walk away. He does this thing where he screams over everything I say I’m not aloud to be heard so I walk away this is the only way he can win is screaming over me . Then I walk away he will go on screaming his lies about me bringing up past things he lied about 20 years ago!! 😢 Their are really pathetic!
Another great observation of human behaviour Darren. Watch your posts regularly. Everything you described here, and in previous posts relating to narcissistic people, I have experienced to a degree or so, with a couple of family members, one of whom, I recently got in touch with at a family funeral. Always heard the word narcissist being used without understanding the full real meaning, and this just nails the characteristics, traits and behaviours of these people in society, and families.
10 out of 10. I've always wonder what makes certain people follow these traits and behavioural patterns in life.
it sure does feel good when the good guys win.
Brilliant video thank you!
Thank you so much..im the family scapegoat. i must continue living with them and since they'll Never change, i mist find ways to simply hurt less around them. Ive subscribed to your channel. I would recommend a new book written by Dr Ramani Durvasula entitled It's Not You: Identifying and healing from narcissistic people (Viking 2024). I can't afford therapy and this book is a great help to me, acting as my survival guide. Thanks for providing the information and support we need in order to survive narcs, Darren! 💐
Great tips to accually have some recourse, thank you again. And for your suggestions on responding ( or not) to avoid escalations. I dont have contact now, only through flying monkeys ( which is hard to discern, I've been pretty reactive, seems like his flying monkeys all have the same attitude, though).
I really appreciate videos like this. I knew someone who was targeted by a narcissistic person and they got their friends involved and spread many lies on social media about the target. Once that fire was lit there was nothing the target could do and they ended up losing their job even. It was so sad to see and they used the darvo method as well and everything they said the target did to them, it was what those toxic people did to the target (and I assume to others too). I wish there was a way to get back the target's reputation after people spread lies. They were so ashamed and scared after so many just believed the lies. I was worried the target would end up hurting themselves because it was just so awful and those narcs got away with it!
Excellent story at the end! Another great video. Thank you.
Thank you for this insightful video Darren. I've only been practicing protection and healing from my abusive mother for a few months and it looks like I'm on the right track. She's definitely noticed the change in my behaviour (I keep catching her looking sideways at me) and has been trying every trick in her book to figure out which tack to take. She usually reverts to DARVO but at the moment she's love bombing me and gift giving which feels weird but at least I can see whats going on now. As she learns that I can't be bought it'll be interesting to see what she tries next😏.
Thanks again for this great resource ❤🖖
I am so glad I discovered your channel. Your information is extremely helpful and encouraging. Thank you!
This is such good advice!!
Thank you Sir!
This helps a lot!
This Was very helpful and Ty ❤
Excellent video, thank you.
Very useful information, thank you.
Thank you
So helpful 🙏
Thank you Darren❤ God bless you❤
what a good example!
Thank you! I wish I had this knowledge one year ago.
Thank you so very much for this follow up video , very important information . 👍💪🙏
Thank you for your invaluable help and support Darren. It feels good when the good guys win. God bless you❤
This is great info. And I can tell you know and practice this. Thanks for the supportive calm logical tone.
Powerful Message!
Having just realized that someone close to me has used DARVO, this video has helped me immensely. Thank you!
Thank you Darren! This video and many others of yours on this topic have brought so much clarity to a situation I have been dealing with for years. In my case, an older brother who displays these behaviors exactly as you’ve described. It was cathartic to hear it explained so clearly. I now feel like I am better able to address any future interactions I will have with him. Thank you again, I am so grateful for your work.
Thank you.
Yes Dealing with the Narcissist is very very difficult situations but Rmb first we have to protect our mental health talk to the people that care about you as a human been. Anything they lied is for attack your confidence. Rmb you do not need their validation Thank you for your channel 🎉❤ God bless you 🙏❤🎉💥💫🧚♂️
OMG… this is what she says to me
“Stop Bullying ME”. She also will so , I am not going to let your anxiety ruin my good time”. Etc…or you’re the one he cheated not me…. ( she keeps thinking I cheated with a friend of mine , who I met with to ask if she thought my wife was a narcissist).
Thank you again
Keeping info.....is the best idea, just in case. You never know how sneaky and calculated the narc is.
Peace be with you Darren. 🙏
It helped me tremendously to learn & understand that a covert narc. is really a dysfunctional sociopath and has certain patterns of behaviour (like DARVO). This knowledge gives me strength and calmness, to counter them with the DEEP-technique: Don't Defend / Explain /Engage / Personalize
Works so far for me.
Thank you so much for this video too, brilliant indeed! Is sad but is true, I have a twin that fits everything you described, makes me wonder where is my share with this, cause is scary - we don't look alike physically, we never did, mentally speaking ... how is that possible? Is terrifying, we grew aside, with the same people and same food, the impact of traumas are so different, he always been like a shadow stalking behind my back and can't get rid of him, everybody says "is your twin brother ". I am a surviving scapegoated child, and I know I am a hero, but still, it is sad...
I really find your videos very helpful and I am learning a lot, your suggestions and advices, like for this one for instance, are very valuable and precious and I need to watch this one again many times, is particularly important for me. ❤ So thank you gratefully, Darren F Magee
Thank you 🙏🏼
When the narcissist catches on that you are "handling" them you must be very precise in your responses. When you correct them with, I did not use those words, I said this and this is exactly what I meant. The Narcissist will do the same back to you and then say , see how it feels.
Currently dealing with this and I am surprisingly already using your tactics. I'm not engaging it and I'm documenting everything to my leadership and blind copying emails. This employee goes behind my back saying that I'm bullying her when I'm actually trying to get her to do her job which is drive her teams performance. She wants to fake like she's working when she actually is doing very little. I'm glad the documenting is working because they now see that she's not credible accusing me of micro-managing and bullying. I have also introduced the term DARVO to my management. So they can also now define the behavior in the organization.
I dealt with a covert female narc in a surpervisor position who used the induced conversation technique and played the victim as she maintained a work environment filled with gossipping and wasnt actually doing her job description. I avoided the office as much as possible and only communicated through text messages. That worked until she would frequent my ex's job to pry into my personal life and gossip about me with him. I confronted her after i left that job to update my address and recorded the conversation. She is still in that role unfortunately as they run through workers because no one healthy wants to deal with that level of toxicity but avoid them as much as you can and dont let these unsavory people ruin your day.
Darren,
Could you do a series of educational video about the fact that darvo or any other destructive method that dominates individuality IS a hypnotizing METHODOLOGY!!!!!
This is absolutely tremendous, Thank you so much for this Darren, You're absolutely beautiful, Peace, love to you and everyone, Thank you universe 😊🛸⚽️💚🌈💞🌹🐉✨️🌌⚘️😍🧝♀️🦄😃🧿🐺🥰👁🦄😀🐴😊
My question: how and when can I expect to exit the "loop" of self-blame for agreeing to enter my toxic ex-relationship, for trusting him while I shouldn't have (and that was VERY important issue to him) and at the same time recognizing and being able to interpret numerous gaslighting and manipulative situations with him in my rear window? And move on? When? These days it has been a year since I decided enough is enough
Personally, my experience is learning to forgive myself which, as you've pointed out here, is not as easy as it can be for other relationships which were likely to have been less personal or painful. I'm still struggling but in recognition of a few factors, I'm making progress. I see the failures of others that created the scenario where I allowed myself to get into the narcissists snare. AND last but in no means least: I haven't forgotten that our Creator loves me. In spite of my shortcomings; all my failures. Hope that helps you too. He loves all of us it's just hard to know it, ESPECIALLY after a narc attack. Support groups like here on this channel comments has provvento
Perhaps radical acceptance?
It’s not linear. Different people heal differently. But generally, when you have placed your self in a situation that is so much better and you have worked on yourself to the point that you know you are so much better than the person you were being with the toxicity, you can carve neural pathways into a growth mindset.
For example, yes, it sucked that the me in the past ignored red flags, was a bit of a people, pleaser, chose things for not all of the best reasons, and made mistakes. And also, I’ve seen what that leads to, I’m not accountable for what somebody else does, and I needed to go through that self and externally inflicted adversity to become the person I am now, and be what I am for myself and others - all of whom benefit from my growth. And while the toxic person who, ironically and unintentionally shocked me into this growth cycle wouldn’t agree, my holding them accountable and setting boundaries and demanding a certain level of accountability and respect is probably the best thing I can do for them as well. It’s the opposite of enabling their behavior by giving them the meaning for consequence of losing access to myself, not because I am so great, but because I am good enough.
People talk about loving your self, and accepting your self but you can’t truly do this if you aren’t taking all of the measures to be true to your authentic self.
Nobody knows better than you what you need to do to be good with yourself and what you were doing. If you were filling your life with things that you know you should be doing and are good for you, that is intrinsically going to change the way you see yourself and your direction in life each and every day.
The only thing that we should have radical acceptance for in terms of ourselves that we aren’t perfect. But that’s not going to make you feel good in and of itself if you aren’t trying, what you consider to be your best. You can’t trick yourself like that for very long. That’s why we have all of this acceptance culture. That’s also so polarizing and so bitter and negative and literally unhealthy.
It’s one thing to have acceptance that we aren’t perfect where we are at and we are trying our best to be better than where we are. It’s another thing to say that whatever we are doing is perfectly amazing and great..
Not only is that harmful because we often do harmful things, and that enables those harmful things to be done to others, and ourselves, but delusional thinking, will lead to delusional thinking outcomes.
Whether it’s fat acceptance, promiscuity acceptance, antisocial acceptance, none of the stuff is good when we don’t draw the line at you shouldn’t be unnecessarily mean to people or yourself.
It’s perfectly fine to realize that you are an imperfect person just like everybody else and that you have room to grow and that’s OK ! It’s not perfectly fine for people to say that they are imperfect and that’s just how it’s going to be and everybody else needs to change or else. That’s more along the lines of a narcissist.
@@monaqualunque Well, I went no contact even before learning about narcissistic circles of emotional abuse and managed to stand my ground. It was very difficult. Luckily, I came across these wonderful online courses which proved to be so helpful and healing. I am also lucky to be good at English, because people without English language skills are truly deprived from great insight like this
Can you do a role play of a conversation of managing darvo please .
"Are they my feet?"
I had a confrontational conversation with narcissistic mother as I had had enough of her narcissistic behaviour she tried all the tactics when she realised that it was no longer working so she slapped me across the face when I turned and walked away she tried to strangle me. She said I deserved the slap because I said something she didn't like and I was angry and scared her so it was my fault and how could she possibly strangle me because she is so much smaller than me how could she possibly reach my neck to strangle me. She has did all the things you have said in the conversation like she was playing bingo
I’m dealing with it right now.
What about if I have email evidence from the narc of a financial promise made including the sum. If I wrote that I am sure they will be honourable in giving it to their daughter?
It's the wording I'm trying to ensure is foolproof against attack & complimentary to their ego.
Great videos, I'm healing from 60 years of his fatherly love
Probably won’t work because they might “change” there behaviour for a while but will only ramp up later.
A lot depends on the fear of what others will think. If your responses to the narcissist are consistently much more plausible and reasonable than the narcissist's points then you have much less to fear from this. Just block their attacks, usually with one short sentence of contradiction, and continue delivering your factual, reasonable points in a calm and focused way. It's the worst thing for them, especially in public. You are saying to them: 'Every time you try one of your tricks I just neutralize it briefly and keep on with my factual, reasonable material. In public you would be lucky to get anyone to take your side.'
Nice Battlestar.
Perfect for a lying, cheating, malevolent and aged parent
Dr. Darren I would like you to speak on how do we deal with or respond to narcissists ghaslighting. Suggest some tactics for people like us who are easy prey to ghaslighting. Please Dr. Darren🙏🏻
Hi I’ve made videos on managing boundaries and gaslighting etc if you’d find those helpful?
Mine left death threats on my life, addressed to our children, on my answering machine. I replaced the tape and kept the one with the threats. Eventually, it was usefulin my divorce trial. My lawyer stood with his finger on the play button- finally the opposing lawyer stipulated that threats had been made.
In my experience, triangulation is their main mode of action. Their enablers behave like adolescent children. All together, their behavior is nothing short of demonic. They go around declaring their superior behavior while at the same time bullying others. It's an absolute nightmare, and I never cease to be amazed by the narc's power of control and persuasion. I honestly don't understand how their immature Mean Girl enablers are unable to see behind their masks. Or, maybe their enablers just get a sense of satisfaction out of joining in the abuse, themselves.
30 plus years I’ve been going through this and I’ve always said, I know I’m not crazy. For the first time in 30 YEARS I knew I was right….i never looked for a reason why she is this way, I kept saying, why is she trying to win? Why do I have to explain what I actually said for hours at a time, why can’t she answer the question and stay on topic, why do I always get the crocodile tears, when I confront her with small….SMALL issues we get into a full blown argument that can last for days, why am I getting blamed for something that occurred 15 years ago, why EVERYTIME she’s confronted, she digs into the past…..
This has been my life for over 30 years and she’s played me every time. I never knew what she was doing had a name and a complete study. I now know what it is and upon revealing it to her she has literally done EVERY SINGLE STEP that has been described. Deny, attack, attack, attack, then switch the narrative to make me the bad guy…..Wow. Did I waste 30 years?
I just learned what it’s called. But i already knew that my ex was doing this. And it got to a point where I had to end it. It’s so baffling but yet comical how ridiculous that someone would act like that even when you have proof of their miss fault and behavior
By ex and sister both! The screen shots I took help keep me sane to this day.