Since there's still a lot of comments around the Bipod / Bait and Switch topic, I'm going to pin this comment too. I don't think Bipod is a bad choice, I actually say it's a good alternative in this video for ease of use as it doesn't require any fancy rotation to pull off, it's just shoot and reload a bunch. Once you run out of ammo for Bipod though, it's DPS will fall off tremendously as you're left with a special weapon damage - may that be Fusions, Snipers or Shotguns. If you're concerned with hitting every single rocket, or you don't feel comfortable proccing Bait and Switch during a damage phase, use Bipod. Bait and Switch is what I'll personally be running in the raid, as statistically it is the better choice, and since I'm going for World's First and use Bait and Switch weapons a lot, this is the clear choice for me. For optimal Bait and Switch though, you do want to do a damage rotation (with Snipers or Fusions). Aegis has some damage rotations to try, but for a Day 1 I suggest omitting one of the special weapons and just running a primary weapon too. Gmeiners put out a great video on Bipod vs Bait and Switch, and if you're still confused what the best choice for you is, check it out: ua-cam.com/video/fUpB6E38SC0/v-deo.html At the end of the day, the chances whether you run Bait and Switch vs you run Bipod is the difference between you clearing the raid and not is Horseman glitch. Between the three weapons, Fourth Horseman is the most likely one I would use. Q: Double special rotations deal much more damage, why don't you suggest them? A: Because in Day 1 raids usually running double special isn't the best idea. You're welcome to run it, I won't stop you - but take it from an experienced Day 1 raider that having a primary is always a great idea. Q: Couldn't you just do special finishers and swap to double special for damage? A: Yes you could.
Can't stress enough how realistic low maintenance loadouts will be more beneficial to 99% of teams than any loadouts focused on high damage output. Great takes & video ATP!
Something that I suggest, is unrelenting on a machine gun. I see a lot of people struggling simply trying to survive. Having a weapon that can keep you alive while killing is a HUGE plus. Day 1 Kings Fall was made simpler because of this perk
Sunbracers + infinite restoration Oh your a Hunter? Arc with assasins cowl, solar with assasins cowl Oh your a Titan? Solar with bonks (use the burning maul exotic)
Finally, someone brings up the sleeper GOAT. Riskrunner is going to go SO HARD in this raid because you're almost always going to be taking arc damage. thralls, Knight cannons, you name it, you'll very likely have infinite uptime on this SMG.
Something to note for "complex" damage rotations is that the players who can spread their damage over multiple weapons will be able to clear easier than players that can't. So while Bait and Switch goes crazy still, bipod might allow for easier spreading of damage. Additionally, the total damage between Bait and Switch and bipod are basically the same now (20,000 more damage for Bait) due to the gally stealth nerf. Testing might show Bait as king but that's because we're talking four phases over damage, not one
The difference is more around 200k than 20k. But Bait and Switch actually benefits for easier spreading of damage because you can do a simple Izanagi - Rocket rotation which pushes a lot of your damage off your rocket and into the sniper. Also when we're comparing 4 phases to 1 phase, you're going to need to consider the ammo economy for all 4 phases. Bait and Switch rockets require less bricks to reach full ammo than a Bipod rocket, so Bait and Switch has a better ammo economy too.
Still gonna bend over backwards to flex the damage on my team bc that's always been my thing, especially with izanagis, a solar gl and b&s apex predator.
This will be my friends (and my) first attempt at a day one raid. Really looking forward to it. I'm happy to see that a lot of the weapons/loadouts I feel comfortable with made it on this list which takes a lot of the stress out of it. We're not going in to finish in a good time, but just to have a good time (and hopefully make it to the end).
If the day one goes on long enough for your team, i cannot stress enough but make sure you guys eat n stuff. Especially if you've been in there awhile and you don't think you are close to beating an encounter. Don't want hangry and stressed out people.
Great video, dropping facts with the part at the beginning regarding realism in loadouts. People like Aegis have created cool spreadsheets that showcase the upper limits of what you can do in the game but they also put weird shit like double sniper rifle or 4th horseman or etc. and don’t take into account actually having to do mechanics or kill adds, like no I’m not using all 3 weapon slots for dps weapons in a day 1 scenario. That said you didn’t have to do leviathans breath that dirty…it’s good! Realistically it’s an outright better version of linears as far as point and click ease of use goes and you can even swap from a bipod rocket and maintain full ammo if you want to use an exotic primary pre dps!!
They actually fixed the Bipod interaction this season (max only gets you 7 reserves in Leviathan's Breath now) which is why I included Linears as a choice since they're Legendary to begin with, but I included my reasoning for not including Leviathans Breath in the replies to the other comment (which I saw you also replied to). I love Levi's Breath (used it for the Solo Flawless Master Ghosts of the Deep), but for this specific Raid I don't see it being used.
Bro most of aegis’ loadouts on that spreadsheet are very useable in a day 1 setting - we have ad clear loadouts for every class that require 0 ammo usage at all - think sun bracers , bonk hammer , assasins cowl arc or solar It isn’t that hard and if there is a barrier / unstop you can always swap off of your loadout to kill that then swap back - the ammo loss isn’t bad in any way lol
@@jashjesus6929 I've done every single Day 1 raid with relatively high placements except for Last Wish, Garden, and Crown, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Focusing on an only-ability based ad-clear during Day 1s rarely goes well - especially for the average player (which is who this guide is designed for). The best way to get through a Day 1 is to have an actual consistent source of getting to damage, and then a consistent source of dealing damage. If you're capable of doing all the loadout swaps on Aegis' spreadsheet, then this video isn't for you. This video is designed for the casual player who wants to try their best at getting a clear on the raid, someone who isn't used to running double special the entire time.
I like your opening statement. It's important to do the tradeoff on how much more dps your loadout can do against how much it hurts your survivability.
You can literally use a completely ability focused ad clear load out and swap to a damage load out right before damage starts and there’s your solution
@@realjevans i said it bc imo its just not true what he said - i run 2 loadouts for all endgame content and its basically a cheat code - have the best ad clear in the game then swap to one of the highest damage loadouts in the game
I took like a 6 month break from the game and started watching all these day 1 prep videos cause Im washed and was so lost cause I didn't think like half the stuff being listed would ever be used in a day 1 scenario to begin with like wilderflight and erianas vow being listed in other videos was crazy to me I thought they got buffed or something without me knowing. Anyway thank you ATP for this simple video, very cool. 👍
His video and his content are very well done - some of the best in the community. I just think it needs to be said that the people looking at these videos probably aren't able to (or aren't comfortable) doing the swaps in a high-stress, high-action environment like a Day 1 raid, and I think those players who are looking at these videos should be aware that there are a lot of other options than doing an RDM rocket dump into 2 snipers into a Malfeasance Lucky Pants.
Couldn't agree more. I was simply noting my humor towards the majority of the options he called must picks being thrown out the window by someone of your stature in the community. The information he provides is absolutely incredible but pulling everything off is easier said then done, especially within the confines of a contest mode raid. I think it is a good thing for someone in your position to inform the vast amount of people going into the day one that consistency and comfort will provide more benefits then the harm that many other creators have led them to believe over the years. Keep putting out the awesome content brotha!
Yeah really good especially if Malfeasance isn't disabled and you do have a Hunter using that as primary DPS for the extra 25%. Could be a good choice for the Abyss too, but I think choices like Riskrunner, Forbearance and Osteo Striga are going to be more usable there since the pool doesn't last nearly as long anymore.
Will have to see what the encounters demand, but my team is defaulting to Leviathan’s breath as DPS of choice. Feels like a statistical powerhouse across the board: DPS, ease of use, ammo-economy, and total damage is sufficient for day 1 bosses. Like thunderlord but 50% more dps in exchange for 10% more skill. I see it as a contender for being best in slot practical-dps against Ir-Yut, just like the GotD final boss.
For riskrunner if you are playing on a low upload connection it might lead to bird error code so use it only if u are sure your connection can handle it
I'm very surprised you said leviathans breath wont be usable. can you elaborate on this? it's got a very high total dmg heavy that can get all its arrows out in a 23 second dmg phase while allowing flexibility in your energy and kinetic slots. with 1 person on tractor and 5 people on breath wouldn't that be enough damage to clear even a boss with 15 million health in contest? thank you for the clarification ahead of time!
His leviathans breath take was the only part of this video that made me go “???”. Levi’s is one of the best dps weapons in the game and crazy easy to use only requires a boss that you can crit.
This is the one heavy weapon I was considering moving out of the "you won't use this" category, because you're right - it does do a lot of damage and is very easy to use. The main concern I have with Leviathan's Breath in this specific Day 1 raid is the idea of needing to hit constant crits to keep Archers Tempo going (since the moment you lose Archers Tempo it goes down the drain). Obviously we don't know about what changes Bungie will make to Ir Yut or Crota, but Crota doesn't have a crit (could change), so Leviathan's Breath loses a lot of potential there, and I'm making the assumption that Ir Yut will have a very tiny crit which is why I removed it there. I struggle hitting crits on Navota with Leviathan's Breath, and I was using her as a base for Ir Yut (and she'll be stronger since it's a Raid not a Strike), so I figured she wouldn't stagger as much making hitting crits a lot harder. Obv could add a Divinity to help there, but at that point I feel like Rockets are just going to be the easier option. Obviously I could be wrong but I hope that provides some insight.
@@AllThePlayers i agree with ir yut. and i see what you mean. my thought process was if crota does have a crit AND possibly he kneels down during damage (assuming damage will not be with the sword) it would be very easy to use breath on him. while also freeing up your other slots to deal with ogres and boomers. ill keep it in my back pocket incase that scenario plays out. thank you for the insight :)
@@Gotexan i was testing it at grasp ogre last night with tractor and a well with a x3 void surge and x4 star eater BB. i was not only able to hit every arrow consistently with void flinch mods but was also able to crank out 3 million total damage with just the super and breath. this was also without the framerate damage boost capped at 80 fps. at the end of it i had full special and all of my abilities still. wich COULD be huge for an upcoming dmg phase or even a final stand
@@johnnyboi7918 Yeah I think if he stays kneeling during damage and damag eis with weapons it would be VERY easy. If that is a change that is made Leviathan's Breath will be a VERY good choice.
Merciless may actually be a sleeper pick for Crota, 1 Person running this could solo the Oversoul so whenever one pops up the rest of the team can just continue whatever they were doing.
The reason I don't suggest Merciless is because to make it shine the most you need an enemy to kill to proc Impetus, whereas other Legendary fusions can roll Controlled Burst which (while is a bit less damage), is comparable. I checked Aegis' sheet and Techeun is about 12% less damage per bolt than Merciless w/ Impetus, so take that as you will. Merciless does get the benefit of Surges, but you could then run Eremite and have the same argument.
@@AllThePlayersyea I don’t have eremite so royal executioner with envious and reservoir should do the job for oversoul. I just recommend running a solar fusion that’s not a rapid fire for the most part
In the vein of ease of use, I really like a tracking rocket. You lose out on DPS compared to a rotation, but if Ir Yut is as mobile as Simmumah, you'll want to land all your shots.
Although I gather alot of this is a rebuttal to another creator's content this is valuable insight. Avg joe looking for a clear and an emblem is not gonna rock double snipers and swap between 5 loadouts per damage phase.
I would say the Energy Weapon part is the biggest "rebuttal" - but yes, I feel like for the average joe who is looking for a clear should recognize that just they don't need to swap their soul away to get a clear, which was the main point I wanted to get across xD.
Depending on how far away the boss is, I would use either a Slug (close), Fusion (medium), or Sniper (far). I don't really use double special so that person would be relying on needing a lot of special for subsequent phases, but with how easy it is to generate orbs (Firepower, Heavy Handed, Reaper, Supers, etc.), getting off some Special Finishers shouldn't be an issue.
I don't want to be that guy, but they literally said the exact opposite: "Increased the cap of player outgoing damage vs. combatants. Keep in mind that the incoming damage cap did not change."
But apex bait and bipod damage difference is only like 15k damage not a big difference even Aegis talk about bipod damage profile it’s not that far from bait and switch
Aegis numbers in his video are wrong (he even addresses this in a comment), additionally Bipod requires you to fire more rockets (depending on the length of the phase you won't get them all off), AND is more ammo intensive (you will need more bricks to get to max ammo). Additionally, while Aegis has said Bipod is better, nearly every other content creator has done their testing and always had Bait and Switch come out on top (not just me, you can include people like gmeiners, Saltagreppo, etc.) I'm not saying Bipod is bad, it's just not as good as Bait and Switch. Also 15k depends on the context. Is it 16000 vs 1000 or is it 150000 vs 13500? (for a single rocket, BnS will do ~47% more than a bipod rocket).
@@AllThePlayers but the reason I say bipod is for security that you will be able to do consistent damage with out Struggling with rotation on a bait and switch you because it might some new player that might struggle with the rotation and might be able dump most of their rockets
@@AllThePlayers Yea I was very confused on Aegis numbers for a lot of things and none seemed to line up with myself or any other "tester" youtubers. Another thing about bipod is how much ammo you will need to replenish, so adds more strain that its worth imo. So thank you for clarifying. 99% of players realistically aren't gonna be able to pull off the gigachad penta swap, change subclass, change exotic armor mid damage swaps on a day one. How do you feel about him saying solar is bad for day ones (referring to hunter). We've done the past 4 day ones with solar hunters and it was perfectly fine and with monochromatic uptime with solar I was probably gonna go void/solar for the entire raid. Im not really a fan of arc hunter on day ones because I never really feel that threatened enough to justify it tbh. Not saying no one should use arc, its just not my cup of tea outside of when I use it for LS or GMs. Again, thanks for vid
@@muffin0608 Funny you mention Arc because I was planning on doing the entire raid on Arc Hunter xD. Considering our incoming damage isn't being affected, and solar has one of the best burst supers (Blade Barrage) and a free 25% weapon buff (Radiant) and infinite healing (Restoration + Empyrean), I think saying it's bad is a bit harsh. I don't think it's nearly as strong as Void or Arc for non-boss encounters, but for boss encounters it's one of the best classes. As I said I'm planning on doing the entire raid on Arc Hunter, but I'm probably going to make an Assassin's Cowl and a Star-Eater Scales Solar build in case I do think I should swap.
You think you are so good with your bait and switch perk? Yeah well I won't be gaslit by you strat hiding streamers, me and my team WILL be using ratking for dps on crota and you will watch as we get worlds first. Keep coping buddy
Great video but I thought the ommision of Hoosegow was a bit sus. I get you want to keep your strats hidden but as a public figure you should be totally honest with your viewing audience. Be better dude. Yours sincerley Grandad.
Don’t wanna sound like that guy but please do research and actually test correctly - aegis did a vid on is bipod or BnS is better and bipod missed out of a total of 15k ish total dmg and about 10k dps and that means bipod is completely better than BnS for day 1 bc the ammo economy is more than double as good as BnS economy - per brick with scavs and reserves on you will get 7 rockets from a bipod and 3 for a BnS (more than double rockets for bipod that is 60% worse) so bipod is simply better for everything except dps
Don't wanna sound like that guy, but please also do your own research instead of trusting his values. First of all, Aegis admits in the comments of his video that his values for Bipod were wrong, and that the difference is actually quite a bit more than the 15k in the spreadsheet. In terms of total damage it's more around 200k difference NOT 15k. Second of all, myself and a bunch of other high placing Day 1 raiders (including, but not limited to: Saltagreppo, gmeiners, Newo, Nick, and Skarrow9) have all agreed that Bait and Switch is the better option by a quite significant margin. Lastly, in terms of finder bricks, you need an average of 4-5 bricks to fill a BnS rocket, while you need > 7 < to fill a Bipod rocket. Don't come here and tell me to "accurately test things" when I have done this, and you're just blindly taking values without actually testing them for yourselves (or doing any sort of further research into the topic). Also I don't even know why you commented this - I state in the video that Bait and Switch is statistically the better option (it is, you said it, I said it, and Aegis said it), BUT Bipod is an alternative. I never said to not use Bipod.
strongly disagree with the "not optimizing your dmg rotation" loadouts, there is a reason so many teams were not able to complete the warpriest encounter on day one. my team wasnt able to complete the challenge with linears, so we eventually had to use "more complex" dmg rotations with izi + rocket (+fusion nade) swap. Like clearly your video is a reply to aegis complex damage rotations, but he also uploaded a video specifically for day one with super simple damage rotations, where u dont have to even have to keep an eye on damage perk timers nor do your need to swap frame perfect your guns, just simple 2-3 weapon rotations
Yes - but consider the trade off for those 2-3 weapon rotations. Are you going to want to be using an Izanagi's Burden, an Ikelos SR4 and a Bipod rocket for that entire fight? Probably not - so we need to consider what weapons you're going to be using to get to damage that would allow for that. Well we can keep Izanagi's Burden and the Bipod rocket, but you probably don't want to be using 2 snipers and a rocket on a Day 1 to get to DPS (imagine doing that to get to Warpriest damage, or Oryx damage), you're going to need something else. Forebearance can only get you so far, which leaves us with a Trace Rifle - basically. Most (if not all) players who are watching videos that suggest the best weapon suggestions for a Day 1 raid aren't going to be able to run the mechanics leading up to a DPS phase consistently using a loadout like that - they're going to need a primary weapon. Now obviously they could swap to a secondary but then they're going to need special ammo - which likely leads to needing special finishers (you can see where I'm spiraling). In Day 1 Raids, survivability and consistency is always much more important than optimizing your damage rotation. You obviously need to optimize your damage enough to get a kill (shooting Warpriest with Sweet Business wouldn't get you the kill, but LFRs + Div would, or in your case you used Izanagi Rocket because LFRs + Div was just not cutting it with needing to move to the Knights). Izanagi and Rocket is basically the DPS rotation I suggest in this video. I'm not suggesting players go and fire an Izi, reload, then fire 8 Ikelos SR shots, then 2 rockets, and repeat - because for the average player (the player who is watching these videos to get suggestions), that is too much for. For players like you and me who are well-versed in Destiny 2 and have done a lot of Day 1 raids that's an okay suggestion (but I still think that that's a bit ridiculous for a Day 1).
also strongly disagree on not using something like 4th horseman (and merciless) my team used 4th horseman both on nezarek (after clown rocket dumping, we dumped our kinetic special / horseman for the remaining special energy ammo and were taking advantage of our already exisiting arc surge), aswell as atraks. 4th horseman was always especially a great weapon for day ones, especially for final stands.
I mean you can always use those as options if you want. The reason I don't like Merciless is for Merciless to actually shine you need to proc Impetus, which has the assumption that you're leaving enemies alive to proc Impetus - most players aren't going to want to leave enemies alive to proc Merciless, they'd rather just use a legendary like Techeun Force or Eremite w/ Controlled Burst which will do similar without requiring kills. The reason I don't suggest Fourth Horseman is because I'm making an assumption that you will not be on top of either bosses during their damage phase. If you are, it's a great choice for last second special ammo dump, but considering the two bosses in this raid is a tiny floating wizard, and a knight who will just get up and immediately kill you with his sword, I decided to opt against including Fourth Horseman.
@@AllThePlayers I totally get that point that people should use the most simple loadout possible on a day one and also double special not being as simple anymore as it was for ammo purposes/it restricting u in your build versatility. Like yes, if u make the decision on using double special still, u won’t be able to take advantage of strong primary weapons like osteo striga, sunshot, riskrunner… which are great for add clear & staying alive, but aegis showed off a lot of builds that basically can be ran without weapons (sunbracer warlock, bonk titan & combination blow hunter). running weapons that only complement those playstyles is enough in my opinion (for example if u are using a Bonk titan or combination blow hunter, u don’t need a primary type style of weapon at all (unless the encounter requires u to interact with something by shooting something)I’d probably run something like a sniper for the bridge encounter and a shotgun/blinding gl. Since ur subclass does most of the add clear for u already) ofc if u are not on planning on running any of those mentioned subclasses by aegis and u want more like a weapon based build for whatever reason, I totally get the idea of running a traditional primary-special heavy loadout. Regarding your point with running low on special ammo, have 2-3 people (usually the people that kill adds and don’t focus on the mechanics too much) making special ammo with special finisher constantly is something that people should do regardless of running a primary or double special loadout. But fair enough, if that videos target audience is casual players who maybe never played a day one or a double special loadout before. Still I stand by that point that learning those kind of more difficult damage rotations might make a difference depending on the difficulty on the raid. U were talking about the different weapon rotations from u and aegis both resulting in a 4 phase regardless. But if we look back at kingsfall for example, the difference on having decent damage rotations resulted in clearing the encounter or being stuck on it. A lot of people (I know) were stuck on that encounter while using 5lfrs (cataclysmic or taipan) and one Div. A more complex but also more effective damage rotation can for sure make the difference between clearing an encounter or being stuck at the encounter for multiple hours/not clearing the encounter at all (my clear was the best example) Like ofc you should always prioritize not dying and performing the mechanics as good as possible, but for some encounters u need to make a tradeoff if u struggle with the dps and using these more enhanced/difficult damage rotations, since they can make a difference. So I think you should have atleast mentioned that people use these rotations if they really are desperate and struggling with damage or willing to learn to play that way before the raid.
Are you sure it was the linears? Dont take that as I am attacking you or anyone. Unless you were missing every shot or just not shooting, it was kind of impossible to not kill warpriest with even just a taipan. I mean I get it when some people arent pulling their weight, up until RoN I just did day ones with IRL friends but they never played much so it was kinda rough but we got the clears every time. Idk during a linear/div meta damage was kind of hard to mess up unless people werent staying alive.
The reason I don't suggest Merciless is because to make it shine the most you need an enemy to kill to proc Impetus, whereas other Legendary fusions can roll Controlled Burst which (while is a bit less damage), is comparable. I checked Aegis' sheet and Techeun is about 12% less damage per bolt than Merciless w/ Impetus, so take that as you will. Merciless does get the benefit of Surges, but you could then run Eremite and have the same argument - while still using your Exotic elsewhere (Izanagis, Malfeasance if not disabled, Lumina, Tractor, etc.)
I'll be completely honest, I don't hear it unless I go to a completely quiet room and use my airpods and actually try to hear the background (and even then the fan, which is my PC) is VERY faint.
Since there's still a lot of comments around the Bipod / Bait and Switch topic, I'm going to pin this comment too.
I don't think Bipod is a bad choice, I actually say it's a good alternative in this video for ease of use as it doesn't require any fancy rotation to pull off, it's just shoot and reload a bunch. Once you run out of ammo for Bipod though, it's DPS will fall off tremendously as you're left with a special weapon damage - may that be Fusions, Snipers or Shotguns. If you're concerned with hitting every single rocket, or you don't feel comfortable proccing Bait and Switch during a damage phase, use Bipod.
Bait and Switch is what I'll personally be running in the raid, as statistically it is the better choice, and since I'm going for World's First and use Bait and Switch weapons a lot, this is the clear choice for me. For optimal Bait and Switch though, you do want to do a damage rotation (with Snipers or Fusions). Aegis has some damage rotations to try, but for a Day 1 I suggest omitting one of the special weapons and just running a primary weapon too.
Gmeiners put out a great video on Bipod vs Bait and Switch, and if you're still confused what the best choice for you is, check it out: ua-cam.com/video/fUpB6E38SC0/v-deo.html
At the end of the day, the chances whether you run Bait and Switch vs you run Bipod is the difference between you clearing the raid and not is Horseman glitch. Between the three weapons, Fourth Horseman is the most likely one I would use.
Q: Double special rotations deal much more damage, why don't you suggest them?
A: Because in Day 1 raids usually running double special isn't the best idea. You're welcome to run it, I won't stop you - but take it from an experienced Day 1 raider that having a primary is always a great idea.
Q: Couldn't you just do special finishers and swap to double special for damage?
A: Yes you could.
You know, Salvation’s Grip was my nickname in high school.
ritzzcar you've outdone yourself with this one!
Can't stress enough how realistic low maintenance loadouts will be more beneficial to 99% of teams than any loadouts focused on high damage output. Great takes & video ATP!
Something that I suggest, is unrelenting on a machine gun. I see a lot of people struggling simply trying to survive. Having a weapon that can keep you alive while killing is a HUGE plus. Day 1 Kings Fall was made simpler because of this perk
I feel like Unrelenting itself is such an underrated perk.
Sunbracers + infinite restoration
Oh your a Hunter? Arc with assasins cowl, solar with assasins cowl
Oh your a Titan? Solar with bonks (use the burning maul exotic)
Finally, someone brings up the sleeper GOAT. Riskrunner is going to go SO HARD in this raid because you're almost always going to be taking arc damage. thralls, Knight cannons, you name it, you'll very likely have infinite uptime on this SMG.
Thank god someone finally said it. Seen people just trying to over complicate shit for day 1 loadouts, like bro the less complex shit the better.
Something to note for "complex" damage rotations is that the players who can spread their damage over multiple weapons will be able to clear easier than players that can't. So while Bait and Switch goes crazy still, bipod might allow for easier spreading of damage. Additionally, the total damage between Bait and Switch and bipod are basically the same now (20,000 more damage for Bait) due to the gally stealth nerf. Testing might show Bait as king but that's because we're talking four phases over damage, not one
The difference is more around 200k than 20k. But Bait and Switch actually benefits for easier spreading of damage because you can do a simple Izanagi - Rocket rotation which pushes a lot of your damage off your rocket and into the sniper.
Also when we're comparing 4 phases to 1 phase, you're going to need to consider the ammo economy for all 4 phases. Bait and Switch rockets require less bricks to reach full ammo than a Bipod rocket, so Bait and Switch has a better ammo economy too.
Saw Aegis's video and I'm glad you made one too!!
Honestly super helpful to get some options that don’t require bending over backwards to min max your damage
Still gonna bend over backwards to flex the damage on my team bc that's always been my thing, especially with izanagis, a solar gl and b&s apex predator.
This will be my friends (and my) first attempt at a day one raid. Really looking forward to it. I'm happy to see that a lot of the weapons/loadouts I feel comfortable with made it on this list which takes a lot of the stress out of it. We're not going in to finish in a good time, but just to have a good time (and hopefully make it to the end).
Have fun!
If the day one goes on long enough for your team, i cannot stress enough but make sure you guys eat n stuff. Especially if you've been in there awhile and you don't think you are close to beating an encounter. Don't want hangry and stressed out people.
@@muffin0608 That makes a lot of sense, I hadn't even thought about the snack situation yet. Thanks Muffin.
Great video, dropping facts with the part at the beginning regarding realism in loadouts.
People like Aegis have created cool spreadsheets that showcase the upper limits of what you can do in the game but they also put weird shit like double sniper rifle or 4th horseman or etc. and don’t take into account actually having to do mechanics or kill adds, like no I’m not using all 3 weapon slots for dps weapons in a day 1 scenario.
That said you didn’t have to do leviathans breath that dirty…it’s good! Realistically it’s an outright better version of linears as far as point and click ease of use goes and you can even swap from a bipod rocket and maintain full ammo if you want to use an exotic primary pre dps!!
They actually fixed the Bipod interaction this season (max only gets you 7 reserves in Leviathan's Breath now) which is why I included Linears as a choice since they're Legendary to begin with, but I included my reasoning for not including Leviathans Breath in the replies to the other comment (which I saw you also replied to). I love Levi's Breath (used it for the Solo Flawless Master Ghosts of the Deep), but for this specific Raid I don't see it being used.
Bro most of aegis’ loadouts on that spreadsheet are very useable in a day 1 setting - we have ad clear loadouts for every class that require 0 ammo usage at all - think sun bracers , bonk hammer , assasins cowl arc or solar
It isn’t that hard and if there is a barrier / unstop you can always swap off of your loadout to kill that then swap back - the ammo loss isn’t bad in any way lol
@@jashjesus6929 I've done every single Day 1 raid with relatively high placements except for Last Wish, Garden, and Crown, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
Focusing on an only-ability based ad-clear during Day 1s rarely goes well - especially for the average player (which is who this guide is designed for). The best way to get through a Day 1 is to have an actual consistent source of getting to damage, and then a consistent source of dealing damage.
If you're capable of doing all the loadout swaps on Aegis' spreadsheet, then this video isn't for you. This video is designed for the casual player who wants to try their best at getting a clear on the raid, someone who isn't used to running double special the entire time.
@@AllThePlayers YOU CLEARLY DONT KNOW WHO JASHJESUS6929 IS BUD, HE CLEARS RAIDS WITH JUST HIS MELEE ABILITY 😎😎😎
but you can tho just swap from a trace rifle and you will keep your special ammo lol
I like your opening statement. It's important to do the tradeoff on how much more dps your loadout can do against how much it hurts your survivability.
You can literally use a completely ability focused ad clear load out and swap to a damage load out right before damage starts and there’s your solution
yeah because its impossible to have 2 different loadouts for an encounter. thanks genius!
@@realjevans i said it bc imo its just not true what he said - i run 2 loadouts for all endgame content and its basically a cheat code - have the best ad clear in the game then swap to one of the highest damage loadouts in the game
@@jashjesus6929 yeah i wasn’t responding to you
@@realjevans mb it pinged me on yt idk why
The intro monologue was great, completely agree. Good vid.
Hey mate, discovered your chanel recently and love the vids. Explanation ones are super helpful and your speedruns are unreal 👌👌
Glad you like them!
I was actually planning on using salvations grip for the whole raid until I saw the thumbnail, thanks ATP!
I took like a 6 month break from the game and started watching all these day 1 prep videos cause Im washed and was so lost cause I didn't think like half the stuff being listed would ever be used in a day 1 scenario to begin with like wilderflight and erianas vow being listed in other videos was crazy to me I thought they got buffed or something without me knowing. Anyway thank you ATP for this simple video, very cool. 👍
Aegis is shaking and quaking rn..
His video and his content are very well done - some of the best in the community. I just think it needs to be said that the people looking at these videos probably aren't able to (or aren't comfortable) doing the swaps in a high-stress, high-action environment like a Day 1 raid, and I think those players who are looking at these videos should be aware that there are a lot of other options than doing an RDM rocket dump into 2 snipers into a Malfeasance Lucky Pants.
Couldn't agree more. I was simply noting my humor towards the majority of the options he called must picks being thrown out the window by someone of your stature in the community. The information he provides is absolutely incredible but pulling everything off is easier said then done, especially within the confines of a contest mode raid. I think it is a good thing for someone in your position to inform the vast amount of people going into the day one that consistency and comfort will provide more benefits then the harm that many other creators have led them to believe over the years. Keep putting out the awesome content brotha!
Witherhoard is my only other suggestion, apart from that your list is great.
Yeah really good especially if Malfeasance isn't disabled and you do have a Hunter using that as primary DPS for the extra 25%. Could be a good choice for the Abyss too, but I think choices like Riskrunner, Forbearance and Osteo Striga are going to be more usable there since the pool doesn't last nearly as long anymore.
Only 2 likes wtf. This dude dropping straight FACTS!! Thx bro
Will have to see what the encounters demand, but my team is defaulting to Leviathan’s breath as DPS of choice. Feels like a statistical powerhouse across the board: DPS, ease of use, ammo-economy, and total damage is sufficient for day 1 bosses. Like thunderlord but 50% more dps in exchange for 10% more skill. I see it as a contender for being best in slot practical-dps against Ir-Yut, just like the GotD final boss.
For riskrunner if you are playing on a low upload connection it might lead to bird error code so use it only if u are sure your connection can handle it
I'm very surprised you said leviathans breath wont be usable. can you elaborate on this? it's got a very high total dmg heavy that can get all its arrows out in a 23 second dmg phase while allowing flexibility in your energy and kinetic slots. with 1 person on tractor and 5 people on breath wouldn't that be enough damage to clear even a boss with 15 million health in contest? thank you for the clarification ahead of time!
His leviathans breath take was the only part of this video that made me go “???”. Levi’s is one of the best dps weapons in the game and crazy easy to use only requires a boss that you can crit.
This is the one heavy weapon I was considering moving out of the "you won't use this" category, because you're right - it does do a lot of damage and is very easy to use.
The main concern I have with Leviathan's Breath in this specific Day 1 raid is the idea of needing to hit constant crits to keep Archers Tempo going (since the moment you lose Archers Tempo it goes down the drain). Obviously we don't know about what changes Bungie will make to Ir Yut or Crota, but Crota doesn't have a crit (could change), so Leviathan's Breath loses a lot of potential there, and I'm making the assumption that Ir Yut will have a very tiny crit which is why I removed it there. I struggle hitting crits on Navota with Leviathan's Breath, and I was using her as a base for Ir Yut (and she'll be stronger since it's a Raid not a Strike), so I figured she wouldn't stagger as much making hitting crits a lot harder. Obv could add a Divinity to help there, but at that point I feel like Rockets are just going to be the easier option.
Obviously I could be wrong but I hope that provides some insight.
@@AllThePlayers i agree with ir yut. and i see what you mean. my thought process was if crota does have a crit AND possibly he kneels down during damage (assuming damage will not be with the sword) it would be very easy to use breath on him. while also freeing up your other slots to deal with ogres and boomers. ill keep it in my back pocket incase that scenario plays out. thank you for the insight :)
@@Gotexan i was testing it at grasp ogre last night with tractor and a well with a x3 void surge and x4 star eater BB. i was not only able to hit every arrow consistently with void flinch mods but was also able to crank out 3 million total damage with just the super and breath. this was also without the framerate damage boost capped at 80 fps. at the end of it i had full special and all of my abilities still. wich COULD be huge for an upcoming dmg phase or even a final stand
@@johnnyboi7918 Yeah I think if he stays kneeling during damage and damag eis with weapons it would be VERY easy. If that is a change that is made Leviathan's Breath will be a VERY good choice.
Merciless may actually be a sleeper pick for Crota, 1 Person running this could solo the Oversoul so whenever one pops up the rest of the team can just continue whatever they were doing.
The reason I don't suggest Merciless is because to make it shine the most you need an enemy to kill to proc Impetus, whereas other Legendary fusions can roll Controlled Burst which (while is a bit less damage), is comparable.
I checked Aegis' sheet and Techeun is about 12% less damage per bolt than Merciless w/ Impetus, so take that as you will.
Merciless does get the benefit of Surges, but you could then run Eremite and have the same argument.
@@AllThePlayersyea I don’t have eremite so royal executioner with envious and reservoir should do the job for oversoul. I just recommend running a solar fusion that’s not a rapid fire for the most part
Yes that would work too if you're allowed to be close enough to actually fusion the oversoul. @@sandburgbilly381
i doubt you woukd be xeno might be the strat for it@@AllThePlayers
In the vein of ease of use, I really like a tracking rocket. You lose out on DPS compared to a rotation, but if Ir Yut is as mobile as Simmumah, you'll want to land all your shots.
A tracking Hothead (or even Apex) is always a good choice too.
Although I gather alot of this is a rebuttal to another creator's content this is valuable insight. Avg joe looking for a clear and an emblem is not gonna rock double snipers and swap between 5 loadouts per damage phase.
I would say the Energy Weapon part is the biggest "rebuttal" - but yes, I feel like for the average joe who is looking for a clear should recognize that just they don't need to swap their soul away to get a clear, which was the main point I wanted to get across xD.
@@AllThePlayers and like you said even for the top tier players like yourself overcomplicating damage rotations is just not usually necessary.
@@stonemason83 Totally agree. And players who can flawlessly do those high skill rotations, probably don't need loadout advice.
I will be using sunshot and blinding gl
When I saw the crossed out salvations grip I knew you would be trolling
Wich 2 weapons would you pair tractor with? I am planning to use it on day 1 for debuff and I cant decide what to run for boss damage
Depending on how far away the boss is, I would use either a Slug (close), Fusion (medium), or Sniper (far). I don't really use double special so that person would be relying on needing a lot of special for subsequent phases, but with how easy it is to generate orbs (Firepower, Heavy Handed, Reaper, Supers, etc.), getting off some Special Finishers shouldn't be an issue.
I don't want to be that guy, but they literally said the exact opposite: "Increased the cap of player outgoing damage vs. combatants. Keep in mind that the incoming damage cap did not change."
We will be dealing less damage but taking the same.
Rat king?
Would only be good in the Abyss to go invis but you can just have a Hunter turn you invis anyway.
What’s going on with malfeasance that it might get disabled? I was hoping to bring it in
Overload HC makes it deal 40% more damage when paired with Lucky Pants. They might disable Lucky Pants instead.
Dam either one being disabled sucks but thanks I had no idea.
Is that 40% applied to the base dmg of malfeasance? Or the buff from lucky pants? If former that’s kinda nuts
Sunbracers are just gonna be op on bridge and deathsinger and entrance. Yeah that's a 3/4 of the raid
Will you be using a new picture of Taylor Swift for the Day 1?
Most likely I will use the same one xD.
So danger zone thresh? got it
You mean I can't bring salvations grip?
based as hell
Graviton crying in chat
Friday?
The raid launches on Friday, September 1st.
@@AllThePlayers oh, sweet. I thought it was up on Weekly reset.
not taking the bait!
no, I will use salvation and NOBODIES GOING TO STOP ME
Lol no way you said warpriest wasnt a dps check. We did the same thing you said is essy but did not work.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
sunshot is also crazy right now for ad clear, so I think that should have been an energy exotic mentioned
I mention it at 7:55, just not part of the main 3 :)
@@AllThePlayers thanks ritzzcar
Lol i thought your name stood for Adenosine tri phosphate
But apex bait and bipod damage difference is only like 15k damage not a big difference even Aegis talk about bipod damage profile it’s not that far from bait and switch
Aegis numbers in his video are wrong (he even addresses this in a comment), additionally Bipod requires you to fire more rockets (depending on the length of the phase you won't get them all off), AND is more ammo intensive (you will need more bricks to get to max ammo). Additionally, while Aegis has said Bipod is better, nearly every other content creator has done their testing and always had Bait and Switch come out on top (not just me, you can include people like gmeiners, Saltagreppo, etc.)
I'm not saying Bipod is bad, it's just not as good as Bait and Switch.
Also 15k depends on the context. Is it 16000 vs 1000 or is it 150000 vs 13500? (for a single rocket, BnS will do ~47% more than a bipod rocket).
@@AllThePlayers but the reason I say bipod is for security that you will be able to do consistent damage with out Struggling with rotation on a bait and switch you because it might some new player that might struggle with the rotation and might be able dump most of their rockets
@@ghosty6031 Yes I agree on that part (I think I mention in the video it's a good alternative).
@@AllThePlayers Yea I was very confused on Aegis numbers for a lot of things and none seemed to line up with myself or any other "tester" youtubers. Another thing about bipod is how much ammo you will need to replenish, so adds more strain that its worth imo. So thank you for clarifying. 99% of players realistically aren't gonna be able to pull off the gigachad penta swap, change subclass, change exotic armor mid damage swaps on a day one.
How do you feel about him saying solar is bad for day ones (referring to hunter). We've done the past 4 day ones with solar hunters and it was perfectly fine and with monochromatic uptime with solar I was probably gonna go void/solar for the entire raid. Im not really a fan of arc hunter on day ones because I never really feel that threatened enough to justify it tbh. Not saying no one should use arc, its just not my cup of tea outside of when I use it for LS or GMs.
Again, thanks for vid
@@muffin0608 Funny you mention Arc because I was planning on doing the entire raid on Arc Hunter xD.
Considering our incoming damage isn't being affected, and solar has one of the best burst supers (Blade Barrage) and a free 25% weapon buff (Radiant) and infinite healing (Restoration + Empyrean), I think saying it's bad is a bit harsh. I don't think it's nearly as strong as Void or Arc for non-boss encounters, but for boss encounters it's one of the best classes.
As I said I'm planning on doing the entire raid on Arc Hunter, but I'm probably going to make an Assassin's Cowl and a Star-Eater Scales Solar build in case I do think I should swap.
Btw only barrier champs in the raid
Bro there will be no boss damage,
just killing ads for the whole raid
Bro... You're living under a Rock If you Believe that
Grand overture maybe???
I mean, this isn't really a burst dps raid
If they change this to a burst heavy raid, it's a good idea but Parasite would likely be the better option.
You think you are so good with your bait and switch perk? Yeah well I won't be gaslit by you strat hiding streamers, me and my team WILL be using ratking for dps on crota and you will watch as we get worlds first. Keep coping buddy
atp when are we playing brawlhalla
tomorrow
@@AllThePlayers bet
Great video but I thought the ommision of Hoosegow was a bit sus. I get you want to keep your strats hidden but as a public figure you should be totally honest with your viewing audience.
Be better dude.
Yours sincerley
Grandad.
I excluded the Sweet Business, Phyllotactic Spiral, Hoosegow combo so that others don't know the best option, but thanks for ruining everything.
Don’t wanna sound like that guy but please do research and actually test correctly - aegis did a vid on is bipod or BnS is better and bipod missed out of a total of 15k ish total dmg and about 10k dps and that means bipod is completely better than BnS for day 1 bc the ammo economy is more than double as good as BnS economy - per brick with scavs and reserves on you will get 7 rockets from a bipod and 3 for a BnS (more than double rockets for bipod that is 60% worse) so bipod is simply better for everything except dps
Don't wanna sound like that guy, but please also do your own research instead of trusting his values.
First of all, Aegis admits in the comments of his video that his values for Bipod were wrong, and that the difference is actually quite a bit more than the 15k in the spreadsheet. In terms of total damage it's more around 200k difference NOT 15k.
Second of all, myself and a bunch of other high placing Day 1 raiders (including, but not limited to: Saltagreppo, gmeiners, Newo, Nick, and Skarrow9) have all agreed that Bait and Switch is the better option by a quite significant margin.
Lastly, in terms of finder bricks, you need an average of 4-5 bricks to fill a BnS rocket, while you need > 7 < to fill a Bipod rocket.
Don't come here and tell me to "accurately test things" when I have done this, and you're just blindly taking values without actually testing them for yourselves (or doing any sort of further research into the topic).
Also I don't even know why you commented this - I state in the video that Bait and Switch is statistically the better option (it is, you said it, I said it, and Aegis said it), BUT Bipod is an alternative. I never said to not use Bipod.
strongly disagree with the "not optimizing your dmg rotation" loadouts, there is a reason so many teams were not able to complete the warpriest encounter on day one. my team wasnt able to complete the challenge with linears, so we eventually had to use "more complex" dmg rotations with izi + rocket (+fusion nade) swap. Like clearly your video is a reply to aegis complex damage rotations, but he also uploaded a video specifically for day one with super simple damage rotations, where u dont have to even have to keep an eye on damage perk timers nor do your need to swap frame perfect your guns, just simple 2-3 weapon rotations
Yes - but consider the trade off for those 2-3 weapon rotations.
Are you going to want to be using an Izanagi's Burden, an Ikelos SR4 and a Bipod rocket for that entire fight? Probably not - so we need to consider what weapons you're going to be using to get to damage that would allow for that.
Well we can keep Izanagi's Burden and the Bipod rocket, but you probably don't want to be using 2 snipers and a rocket on a Day 1 to get to DPS (imagine doing that to get to Warpriest damage, or Oryx damage), you're going to need something else. Forebearance can only get you so far, which leaves us with a Trace Rifle - basically.
Most (if not all) players who are watching videos that suggest the best weapon suggestions for a Day 1 raid aren't going to be able to run the mechanics leading up to a DPS phase consistently using a loadout like that - they're going to need a primary weapon. Now obviously they could swap to a secondary but then they're going to need special ammo - which likely leads to needing special finishers (you can see where I'm spiraling).
In Day 1 Raids, survivability and consistency is always much more important than optimizing your damage rotation. You obviously need to optimize your damage enough to get a kill (shooting Warpriest with Sweet Business wouldn't get you the kill, but LFRs + Div would, or in your case you used Izanagi Rocket because LFRs + Div was just not cutting it with needing to move to the Knights). Izanagi and Rocket is basically the DPS rotation I suggest in this video. I'm not suggesting players go and fire an Izi, reload, then fire 8 Ikelos SR shots, then 2 rockets, and repeat - because for the average player (the player who is watching these videos to get suggestions), that is too much for. For players like you and me who are well-versed in Destiny 2 and have done a lot of Day 1 raids that's an okay suggestion (but I still think that that's a bit ridiculous for a Day 1).
also strongly disagree on not using something like 4th horseman (and merciless) my team used 4th horseman both on nezarek (after clown rocket dumping, we dumped our kinetic special / horseman for the remaining special energy ammo and were taking advantage of our already exisiting arc surge), aswell as atraks. 4th horseman was always especially a great weapon for day ones, especially for final stands.
I mean you can always use those as options if you want. The reason I don't like Merciless is for Merciless to actually shine you need to proc Impetus, which has the assumption that you're leaving enemies alive to proc Impetus - most players aren't going to want to leave enemies alive to proc Merciless, they'd rather just use a legendary like Techeun Force or Eremite w/ Controlled Burst which will do similar without requiring kills.
The reason I don't suggest Fourth Horseman is because I'm making an assumption that you will not be on top of either bosses during their damage phase. If you are, it's a great choice for last second special ammo dump, but considering the two bosses in this raid is a tiny floating wizard, and a knight who will just get up and immediately kill you with his sword, I decided to opt against including Fourth Horseman.
@@AllThePlayers I totally get that point that people should use the most simple loadout possible on a day one and also double special not being as simple anymore as it was for ammo purposes/it restricting u in your build versatility.
Like yes, if u make the decision on using double special still, u won’t be able to take advantage of strong primary weapons like osteo striga, sunshot, riskrunner… which are great for add clear & staying alive, but aegis showed off a lot of builds that basically can be ran without weapons (sunbracer warlock, bonk titan & combination blow hunter). running weapons that only complement those playstyles is enough in my opinion (for example if u are using a Bonk titan or combination blow hunter, u don’t need a primary type style of weapon at all (unless the encounter requires u to interact with something by shooting something)I’d probably run something like a sniper for the bridge encounter and a shotgun/blinding gl. Since ur subclass does most of the add clear for u already) ofc if u are not on planning on running any of those mentioned subclasses by aegis and u want more like a weapon based build for whatever reason, I totally get the idea of running a traditional primary-special heavy loadout.
Regarding your point with running low on special ammo, have 2-3 people (usually the people that kill adds and don’t focus on the mechanics too much) making special ammo with special finisher constantly is something that people should do regardless of running a primary or double special loadout.
But fair enough, if that videos target audience is casual players who maybe never played a day one or a double special loadout before. Still I stand by that point that learning those kind of more difficult damage rotations might make a difference depending on the difficulty on the raid. U were talking about the different weapon rotations from u and aegis both resulting in a 4 phase regardless. But if we look back at kingsfall for example, the difference on having decent damage rotations resulted in clearing the encounter or being stuck on it. A lot of people (I know) were stuck on that encounter while using 5lfrs (cataclysmic or taipan) and one Div. A more complex but also more effective damage rotation can for sure make the difference between clearing an encounter or being stuck at the encounter for multiple hours/not clearing the encounter at all (my clear was the best example)
Like ofc you should always prioritize not dying and performing the mechanics as good as possible, but for some encounters u need to make a tradeoff if u struggle with the dps and using these more enhanced/difficult damage rotations, since they can make a difference. So I think you should have atleast mentioned that people use these rotations if they really are desperate and struggling with damage or willing to learn to play that way before the raid.
Are you sure it was the linears? Dont take that as I am attacking you or anyone. Unless you were missing every shot or just not shooting, it was kind of impossible to not kill warpriest with even just a taipan. I mean I get it when some people arent pulling their weight, up until RoN I just did day ones with IRL friends but they never played much so it was kinda rough but we got the clears every time.
Idk during a linear/div meta damage was kind of hard to mess up unless people werent staying alive.
Thunderlord 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣jajajjjaja
How dare u say that you won’t use merciless
All you need is literally 1 ad and it does dps comparable to rocket dps
Literally only 1 ad
The reason I don't suggest Merciless is because to make it shine the most you need an enemy to kill to proc Impetus, whereas other Legendary fusions can roll Controlled Burst which (while is a bit less damage), is comparable.
I checked Aegis' sheet and Techeun is about 12% less damage per bolt than Merciless w/ Impetus, so take that as you will.
Merciless does get the benefit of Surges, but you could then run Eremite and have the same argument - while still using your Exotic elsewhere (Izanagis, Malfeasance if not disabled, Lumina, Tractor, etc.)
Downvote cuz they’re using linears and doing damage at bottom floor instead of on the same platform as war priest
Pretty sure every team who placed Top 10 in King's Fall Challenge did Linears from the bottom, and not Rockets from the top.
dude next time you hit record point the industrial fan away from your mic shit sounds like you're in an airplane
I'll be completely honest, I don't hear it unless I go to a completely quiet room and use my airpods and actually try to hear the background (and even then the fan, which is my PC) is VERY faint.
Idk what you're talking about, I can't hear anything in the background.
You sure its not ur fan?
If they dont add another Encounter, Strand or solar titan with Monte is Meta lol.
Just punch crota back to hell.