Good info. I just repaired an old Schumacher unit using a 9ah battery and got a result on my load tester right on the weak/bad line. I guess that's just what these do.
The voltage on the baby Noco is normal, Lithium packs are lower voltage. This also brings up a warning most don't realize... they charge @ lower voltages... a regular lead acid or AGM battery jump pack like the JNC660 can be left on the jumped vehicle for a minute or so after it starts & use the cars alternator to recharge the jump pack.( it has a built in charger too).. if you did that with any of the Lithium jump packs... it'll damage the life of the battery inside. Lithium packs are also VERY temperature sensitive.. they won't turn on if they're cold & they also won't turn on if they're hot from ambient temps or from long cranking of an engine. The JNC 660 is significantly better all around jump pack. It's the #1 most trusted in the towing industry which uses them daily. Noco uses "fuzzy math" to list thier output ratings.... it's actually rated in Joules of energy over time.... they're really nowhere near that powerful. The JNC is rated @425 cranking amps & 1700 peak burst. They also use 2 Guage welding cable ( fine angel hair copper wires) they stay flexible in sub zero temps & they are significantly more efficient @ transferring amperage. Even the Big 4000A ( recently reduced to300A ) Noco jump pack struggles to start bigger vehicles or in winter temps.. it will give one or two decent cranks... but if it doesn't fire... it doesn't have much reserve capacity to keep trying. They also take significantly longer to recharge vs a regular jump pack. The JNC will crank over a Light duty pickup Diesel in winter. It also will crank for a longer time than the Lithium. Yes it's bigger, but it's built like a tank... I've used em for decades & they're very reliable & last for years. I have one that's used almost daily that's almost 10 years old & it's my go to 75% of the time over my newer bigger Noco. The JNC is also about half the price of the bigger Noco genius....the only benefit to choosing the Noco is the "smart" safety electronics for unknowledgable people that may not know what they're doing... if ya hook it up wrong.. it won't turn on (unless you manually hold the bypass) I've been in the towing/roadside business over 35 years up in Minnesota where our winters are Very, very cold ... I currently own 3 JNC 660s & 2 Noco GB150s ( two of them failed in less than a year old... 1 was warranted by bthe manufacturer & the other was junk) & my JNCs are 10x more trustworthy at half the price & they work even when it's sub zero.. if you want compact & cute... ok.. but if you want performance & long life & built like a tank... JNC 660 is King.
The genius 1000 amp jump starter actually puts out about 325 cranking amps. Not enough to start a v6 with a really dead battery. I actually just bought a 2000 amp jump starter which puts out 650 cranking amps.. (I stand corrected - 200)
That JnC600 unit.. once the ~20ah SLA inside goes bad, it'd be good to see someone on youtube replace it with a ~20ah 12.8v LFP battery, and connect the load straight to cells (bypass its BMS), use a big fuse of course, thick wires, and have the charging circuit still go through the BMS. I haven't seen any cheap LFP jump starter packs. -- Have you got one of those cheap (but effective) low current CCA testers? (Such as TopDon or KingBolen.) If so it would be interesting to see what it thinks the GB40 in this video can push. Still, like you say, it didn't start the car you mentioned early on. I'm just wondering if it would manage to push >300A and still hold up ~9v.
It's false advertising; there's not enough amps in these tiny jump packs. They have their own way of measuring, just like other manufacturers do. Like Milwaukee with their, "Nut Busting" torque, instead of just normal torque, or "Peak HP" on a shop-vac. I'm starting to think it's better to just carry around an extra battery that fits my vehicle and some cables/tools. I see you're into generator's; HD's having a sale today. Thank you for this video.
Something else I kinda glossed over in the video was that the voltage was low. volts x amp = power. Even if it was closer to 100 amps on the load test the power still would have fell short. Wish companies would just state the facts.
@@jcondon1 That voltage was very low for a lithium pack. I've got two different ones and when fully charged they are at 14.7 VDC. Did you verify your pack was charged?
Hey James Just came across this tutorial I have replaced all the batteries in our shop JNC 660s. About a dozen or so. New ones fail within several jumps. I think it was due to bad charging systems. I ordered the upgraded kits and batteries. We went with Mighty Max Lithium 12v 22ah units. They get plenty of use and abused. It’s been several years on some and showing wear. Since all these lithium fires we are replacing with high grade lead acid. I think it’s a better choice in jump packs.
Hey James. Late to the party and just my 2c. Lithium and LA voltages are very different, a 3s Lithium battery which is probably what's inside that genius is only 12.6 VDC at full charge where as an LA at full charge ie just off a charger for both cases is 14,4 VDC. the other drawback that I can see for the lithium pack is that there is probably a soft switch between the pack and those clamp leads, which as everyone that has had experience with any form of solid state switch will tell you that when it comes to raw power those Solid State Switches just completely suck at delivering any type of decent power. The other down fall I could see would be the size of those thin clamp cables, given the distances from one battery to another it should not make to much of a difference but...... It could. Depending on the cells used in that power pack those numbers are grossly over exaggerated. looking at a high end consumer lithium cell the Samsung 30Q, These cells can deliver up to 30A each but this is not constant for a constant it would be 15A, so if this would be a 4P 3S assembly then I would expect to see the kind of amps shown, This is however as you correctly stated NOT enough to deliver any kind of starting power to a battery, My question is this. Why do the manufacturers of these devices not rather do a proper pack of 8 to 10P at 3S to give us a proper cranking battery, it just does not make sense, the only place this pack would work is on a vehicle that has a semi flat battery that just needs a topup, so I don't think it is correctly advertised as a jump pack... Rant over.... 😂😂
Samsung 30Q cells, totally inaccurate. These use Pouch cells commonly found in radio controlled models. They have a much higher peak output perfect for cranking a starter motor on a car or truck. The more expensive lithium jump packs even have internal heaters to warm the pouch cells up to temp in order to deliver the high cranking power possible!
Don't underestimate that local it's got a 2000 150 milliamp battery inside the battery inside is three lithium-ion cells in series which is not 12 volts I started my 150 Ford van 5.4 l in the summertime without a battery of it 12 times on the Noco the pack overheated wait until I cooled off it starred in additional 15 times and then three more after cooled off again
That Jump N Carry will start a diesel truck with no problem. I jumped my neighbor who had a 7.3L diesel that had a completely dead battery with the 660.
Also one thing I did not consider at the time is that watts = volts x amps. The lithium jump pack voltage was a lot lower. Even if the amps were the same the overall power (watts) would be lower.
My EverStart Maxx 600 amp lithium jumper started a 4.8L V8 2003 Chevy Silverado that had a completely dead battery. The battery under the hood had zero volts.
Hi James First of all I love all your videos, I was wondering if by chance you ever run across a Dual Fuel Generator that you needed to bring back to life? Thanks Robert
All lithium batteries have a much higher power density than any lead acid battery. The issue is they're very expensive so these jump units have tiny little batteries in them. If they had the same size battery in watt-hours that the lead acid jump packs did they'd cost £2k plus.
I realize that this was a long time ago but having taking apart and replaced the batteries in that style pack before I would say that it simply is a 9-12 amp hour sealed lead acid(SLA) battery. They're not rated in cranking amps however as long as the cables that they use can handle the current generated they can be used as a starting battery even though that's not they're designed purpose. SLA AGM are used in the packs because they have a lower self discharge voltage than a starting battery would in this situation. They do loose. Total capacity over time and hit 50% after about 5 years. the deeper packs have a 20-24 amp hour SLA. Both packs should be hooked between the frame and positive, otherwise the two batteries will balance out if left that way for too long resulting in two batteries that are too low voltage to crank.
I have a brand new one from Canadian tire 1400 peak. Couldn't start my car the other day. I just load tested the pack to see it under 100. Dog shit unit or I got a bad Chinese pack
@@jcondon1 yes it does look like a Briggs (not the flashiest motor in the grand scheme of thing but they are real workhorses on my farm) I have to do the valves; not too worried about that but just thought you might have done a show on them. Never mind. Keep up the great work mate; love your shows no bullshit just good information. Thank you.
I use the Noco GB70 and I jump start my F-150 pick-up truck with a dead battery no problem, also other car with the same unit. It save my life a couple of time. I like it because it is small and powerful. Never did the Amp test. Maybe if the lead battery in the car is completely dead it would not have enough voltage to power up the computer. But so far it always deliver what I needed.
It has saved me a few times, but not my wife. Her car is a push button computer controlled ignition. The computer did not have enough power to stay on when cranking. Her car was also 100% dead.
@@krecikowi I know this is late, but I have a Gooloo GT4000 and leave it in the truck year round in Minnesota. Take it out to charge it twice a year or so, it has a built in heater that will warm the batteries in the unit up in winter, it takes a couple of minutes if it is really cold and has started several cars, suv's, pickups on the side of the road, winter, summer, etc. Had it for a couple of years now with no issues. Hope this helps.
Good info. I just repaired an old Schumacher unit using a 9ah battery and got a result on my load tester right on the weak/bad line. I guess that's just what these do.
The voltage on the baby Noco is normal, Lithium packs are lower voltage. This also brings up a warning most don't realize... they charge @ lower voltages... a regular lead acid or AGM battery jump pack like the JNC660 can be left on the jumped vehicle for a minute or so after it starts & use the cars alternator to recharge the jump pack.( it has a built in charger too).. if you did that with any of the Lithium jump packs... it'll damage the life of the battery inside. Lithium packs are also VERY temperature sensitive.. they won't turn on if they're cold & they also won't turn on if they're hot from ambient temps or from long cranking of an engine.
The JNC 660 is significantly better all around jump pack. It's the #1 most trusted in the towing industry which uses them daily. Noco uses "fuzzy math" to list thier output ratings.... it's actually rated in Joules of energy over time.... they're really nowhere near that powerful. The JNC is rated @425 cranking amps & 1700 peak burst. They also use 2 Guage welding cable ( fine angel hair copper wires) they stay flexible in sub zero temps & they are significantly more efficient @ transferring amperage. Even the Big 4000A ( recently reduced to300A ) Noco jump pack struggles to start bigger vehicles or in winter temps.. it will give one or two decent cranks... but if it doesn't fire... it doesn't have much reserve capacity to keep trying. They also take significantly longer to recharge vs a regular jump pack. The JNC will crank over a Light duty pickup Diesel in winter. It also will crank for a longer time than the Lithium. Yes it's bigger, but it's built like a tank... I've used em for decades & they're very reliable & last for years. I have one that's used almost daily that's almost 10 years old & it's my go to 75% of the time over my newer bigger Noco. The JNC is also about half the price of the bigger Noco genius....the only benefit to choosing the Noco is the "smart" safety electronics for unknowledgable people that may not know what they're doing... if ya hook it up wrong.. it won't turn on (unless you manually hold the bypass) I've been in the towing/roadside business over 35 years up in Minnesota where our winters are Very, very cold ... I currently own 3 JNC 660s & 2 Noco GB150s ( two of them failed in less than a year old... 1 was warranted by bthe manufacturer & the other was junk) & my JNCs are 10x more trustworthy at half the price & they work even when it's sub zero.. if you want compact & cute... ok.. but if you want performance & long life & built like a tank... JNC 660 is King.
It puts out 1000A just for 3 seconds while you are trying to start the car and your load tester wouldn't even pick that first 3 seconds
The genius 1000 amp jump starter actually puts out about 325 cranking amps. Not enough to start a v6 with a really dead battery. I actually just bought a 2000 amp jump starter which puts out 650 cranking amps.. (I stand corrected - 200)
That JnC600 unit.. once the ~20ah SLA inside goes bad, it'd be good to see someone on youtube replace it with a ~20ah 12.8v LFP battery, and connect the load straight to cells (bypass its BMS), use a big fuse of course, thick wires, and have the charging circuit still go through the BMS. I haven't seen any cheap LFP jump starter packs.
--
Have you got one of those cheap (but effective) low current CCA testers? (Such as TopDon or KingBolen.) If so it would be interesting to see what it thinks the GB40 in this video can push. Still, like you say, it didn't start the car you mentioned early on. I'm just wondering if it would manage to push >300A and still hold up ~9v.
It's false advertising; there's not enough amps in these tiny jump packs. They have their own way of measuring, just like other manufacturers do. Like Milwaukee with their, "Nut Busting" torque, instead of just normal torque, or "Peak HP" on a shop-vac.
I'm starting to think it's better to just carry around an extra battery that fits my vehicle and some cables/tools.
I see you're into generator's; HD's having a sale today.
Thank you for this video.
Something else I kinda glossed over in the video was that the voltage was low. volts x amp = power. Even if it was closer to 100 amps on the load test the power still would have fell short. Wish companies would just state the facts.
The genius 1000 amp jump starter actually puts out about 325 cranking amps. Not enough to start a v6 with a really dead battery
@@jcondon1 That voltage was very low for a lithium pack. I've got two different ones and when fully charged they are at 14.7 VDC. Did you verify your pack was charged?
Hey James Just came across this tutorial
I have replaced all the batteries in our shop JNC 660s. About a dozen or so. New ones fail within several jumps. I think it was due to bad charging systems. I ordered the upgraded kits and batteries. We went with Mighty Max Lithium 12v 22ah units. They get plenty of use and abused. It’s been several years on some and showing wear. Since all these lithium fires we are replacing with high grade lead acid. I think it’s a better choice in jump packs.
Hey James. Late to the party and just my 2c. Lithium and LA voltages are very different, a 3s Lithium battery which is probably what's inside that genius is only 12.6 VDC at full charge where as an LA at full charge ie just off a charger for both cases is 14,4 VDC. the other drawback that I can see for the lithium pack is that there is probably a soft switch between the pack and those clamp leads, which as everyone that has had experience with any form of solid state switch will tell you that when it comes to raw power those Solid State Switches just completely suck at delivering any type of decent power. The other down fall I could see would be the size of those thin clamp cables, given the distances from one battery to another it should not make to much of a difference but...... It could. Depending on the cells used in that power pack those numbers are grossly over exaggerated. looking at a high end consumer lithium cell the Samsung 30Q, These cells can deliver up to 30A each but this is not constant for a constant it would be 15A, so if this would be a 4P 3S assembly then I would expect to see the kind of amps shown, This is however as you correctly stated NOT enough to deliver any kind of starting power to a battery, My question is this. Why do the manufacturers of these devices not rather do a proper pack of 8 to 10P at 3S to give us a proper cranking battery, it just does not make sense, the only place this pack would work is on a vehicle that has a semi flat battery that just needs a topup, so I don't think it is correctly advertised as a jump pack... Rant over.... 😂😂
Samsung 30Q cells, totally inaccurate. These use Pouch cells commonly found in radio controlled models. They have a much higher peak output perfect for cranking a starter motor on a car or truck. The more expensive lithium jump packs even have internal heaters to warm the pouch cells up to temp in order to deliver the high cranking power possible!
Don't underestimate that local it's got a 2000 150 milliamp battery inside the battery inside is three lithium-ion cells in series which is not 12 volts I started my 150 Ford van 5.4 l in the summertime without a battery of it 12 times on the Noco the pack overheated wait until I cooled off it starred in additional 15 times and then three more after cooled off again
My DBPOWER 800A 18000mAh works great. Has started every car and trunk it was put on. Even cars without batteries attached.
Exactly!
That Jump N Carry will start a diesel truck with no problem. I jumped my neighbor who had a 7.3L diesel that had a completely dead battery with the 660.
Great comparison providing good information. I was just comparing these two items wondering the same things. Thanks!
Also one thing I did not consider at the time is that watts = volts x amps. The lithium jump pack voltage was a lot lower. Even if the amps were the same the overall power (watts) would be lower.
My EverStart Maxx 600 amp lithium jumper started a 4.8L V8 2003 Chevy Silverado that had a completely dead battery. The battery under the hood had zero volts.
It started by 2016 Flex with a push button starter no problems gb40
Randy on auto auction rebuilds use a similar jump pack to start a turbo diesel Cummins with 2 dead batteries
Must be a larger version. This one would not start my wife’s 3.6 liter 6 cylinder van.
Hi James
First of all I love all your videos, I was wondering if by chance you ever run across a Dual Fuel Generator that you needed to bring back to life?
Thanks
Robert
No duel fuel ones yet.
Thanks for testing, I think that lithium batteries are still not enough in power when you compare lead acid in brute power and instant current.
All lithium batteries have a much higher power density than any lead acid battery. The issue is they're very expensive so these jump units have tiny little batteries in them.
If they had the same size battery in watt-hours that the lead acid jump packs did they'd cost £2k plus.
I realize that this was a long time ago but having taking apart and replaced the batteries in that style pack before I would say that it simply is a 9-12 amp hour sealed lead acid(SLA) battery. They're not rated in cranking amps however as long as the cables that they use can handle the current generated they can be used as a starting battery even though that's not they're designed purpose. SLA AGM are used in the packs because they have a lower self discharge voltage than a starting battery would in this situation. They do loose. Total capacity over time and hit 50% after about 5 years. the deeper packs have a 20-24 amp hour SLA.
Both packs should be hooked between the frame and positive, otherwise the two batteries will balance out if left that way for too long resulting in two batteries that are too low voltage to crank.
Great video, and I already felt this was the case. Simply put if the cables are thin gauge, you know it’s not going to deliver a high amperage.
I have a brand new one from Canadian tire 1400 peak. Couldn't start my car the other day. I just load tested the pack to see it under 100. Dog shit unit or I got a bad Chinese pack
Odd... I've jumped dozens of cars of all types using cheap chinesium lithium packs.
I ended up getting a cheap Chinese lithium jump pack and it performs much better then the NOCO in this video.
I have the gb40 and ended up buying the gb70 as the smaller one sucked
that brand is known to be a weak jump starter compared to other brands
Thanks for test comparing both types of batteries...I always wondered which would be the most reliable source to jump start a car...
the genius boost ones of these are pretty bad, project farm done a good comparison n a few of these and a couple of brands actually done really well.
Random question mate but have you ever worked on a Honda G200 engine? Cheers.
I have not. It looks a lot like a Briggs flat head.
@@jcondon1 yes it does look like a Briggs (not the flashiest motor in the grand scheme of thing but they are real workhorses on my farm) I have to do the valves; not too worried about that but just thought you might have done a show on them. Never mind. Keep up the great work mate; love your shows no bullshit just good information. Thank you.
I use the Noco GB70 and I jump start my F-150 pick-up truck with a dead battery no problem, also other car with the same unit. It save my life a couple of time. I like it because it is small and powerful. Never did the Amp test. Maybe if the lead battery in the car is completely dead it would not have enough voltage to power up the computer. But so far it always deliver what I needed.
It has saved me a few times, but not my wife. Her car is a push button computer controlled ignition. The computer did not have enough power to stay on when cranking. Her car was also 100% dead.
What about cold, like - 30?
@@krecikowi
I know this is late, but I have a Gooloo GT4000 and leave it in the truck year round in Minnesota. Take it out to charge it twice a year or so, it has a built in heater that will warm the batteries in the unit up in winter, it takes a couple of minutes if it is really cold and has started several cars, suv's, pickups on the side of the road, winter, summer, etc. Had it for a couple of years now with no issues. Hope this helps.