weird how they made it so infinite is sonic's most threatening enemy through all the feats you mentioned and yet sega did little to nothing substantial with his potential that would prove that bold claim
@@Cruddy129 yeah the writing for sonic in the 2010s was never something to write home about. Thank god the writing in the recent games is a lot better, so if we ever do get an “infinite” again, they will probably be much more intriguing
Bro, what are you smoking? Infinite was a loser who couldn’t even beat shadow. Memphis is the alpha gamer, who killed sonic and no one to this date has killed sonic aside from him.
@@Nagatemshush bro, Alpha gamer that couldn't kill Sonic directly but resorted to cheap tricks, you must be a joker or a blind hater that only sees things in the surface to not see through Infinites power. Gosh some fans really a something else🤦 Forces Sonic is way powerful than 06 that should tell you something man
A lot of people here are really overstating how weak Mephiles is, because the whole deal of him “infinitely loosing” due to his immortality is not a possibility if the opponent does the same thing over and over again. One thing that people sort of forget is just how blinded by rage Infinite is throughout the entirety of Sonic Forces, I mean he became Infinite because Shadow called him weak, like come on, he’s very likely to be relying entirely on his power rather than him being a trained professional with the Phantom Ruby, the abilities are just as unpredictable to him as it is to us. With that being said, Mephiles thanks to his immortality can learn every one of his limited array of tricks and in one scenario make a breakthrough. Throughout 06, Mephiles was simply playing around with everybody for his own amusement and was just observing and learnjng their tricks, likely because Sonic, Shadow and Silver were primary threats to his final form Solaris. He could’ve just killed Sonic this whole time, and the fact he did so in the end showed that he was not only powerful, but unpredictable, he can strike from anywhere at any point, and the element of surprise can get even the most powerful of foes. Remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare, do not underestimate the Tortoise.
Something I want to mention myself is I don't think Infinite is that strong Not to mention the only reason why he is this strong is literally just the Phatom Ruby You can take it away and Infinite is back to being very much weak and he only has combat after Mephiles too has more broken stuff as well And Mephiles even states that his power is infinite At least there's truth to it because he doesn't exactly need the Phatom Ruby and the Chaos Emeralds more mostly upgraded his abilities and Mephiles probably does scale with Shadow since he does share simular stats with him and the only way exactly to beat Mephiles is to seal him away and hopefully he doesn't give you the middle finger and just breaks free from it Mephiles just is better And hell I think any more emeralds and his abilities probably get better and they would expand by alot
To further reinstate your point about Mephiles learning his opponents moves, he’s also a FAST learner at that. In Shadow gen’s, if you mash the doom blast button instead of holding, Shadow will do a flurry of kicks. But if you do that more than once, Mephiles will parry it and counterattack
If anything Mephiles would try to make Infinite join his side so they both can just beat the hell out of Shadow. That'd be funny. Until Mephiles probably steal the Ruby from Infinite...Uh oh
I don't think he would be interested in the Ruby, much like the chaos emeralds they would just be a means to a end in order to fuse with Iblis that has the power to destroy reality. Where as the Ruby seems to have a upper limit when he created a sun which made Infinite "weaker".
@mistermann4163 not really, the ruby he had was a prototype. If he overclocked it like in the fan game Sonic Forces Overclocked you'd see the reality level damage it could cause, it was strong enough to change everything to however Infinite saw fit. The original was still with Eggman and it's stated that it holds more power in it's fragments than the Master emerald itself. Imagine what infinite could do if he had the original, dude would be dropping multiple suns upon them
It's kinda cool that Mephiles returned in SXS Generations, but IMO he should've had a larger role in the story... Maybe have Mephiles and Black Doom team up to fight a stronger Shadow or something
I can see Mephiles taking the Phantom Ruby (the completed version Infinite has and not the actual mania version Eggman used) for himself and maybe even possibly try and fuse it into himself and Iblis when they become Solaris. The Ruby is able to harm Super forms granted Solaris is already able to do that but hey free extra power from him so I can see him doing it anyway
In terms of both the ruby and Solaris being able to damage super forms I’d say it’s basically him taking any threats from the enemy and using it himself
Finally someone who actually explain a proper fight between the two instead of someone saying Mephiles have better writing so technically he's better at anything and will win the fight
@Jayler9o Mephiles tries to manipulate Shadow throughout his story in 06 by bringing up his past and traumatic experience with humans. We actually see get characterized as someone who seems to enjoy the suffering of others, relishes the idea of destruction, and is genuinely pure evil. Infnite has nothing going for him aside from whining like a baby his and design and OST.
@Nerdlee-27 and yet he actually had power to end the resistance unlike Mephiles hiding in the dark like a cockroach to stab Sonic with a knife made to kill giants. 🤷 I mean, dude is a god but has nothing to show for it, his most impressive ability is just time travel
The thing about Infinite is that his power comes from *Phantom* Ruby (also called "Ruby of Illusions"). As stated in Forces, it's a sort of augmented virtual reality that messes with trapped character's perception and 5 senses, not the actual reality, though making them believe it is the real deal with all those hyperboles. Only thing worth about Ruby that I can't wank completely is Null space but I treat it rather as Ruby's pocket dimesnion. And If I remember correctly, they got out mostly because Avatar held the Ruby prototype (which he used later against the fake Sun) as well. Stat wise, yes, If we scale him to base Forces Sonic, even without Ruby's energy tricks, Infinite can damage 06 and Gen Mephiles a lot. But note a thing that even after return in Gens, Mephiles held quite long against base Shadow who is much stronger than 06 one. What stops me from saying Mephiles can get stronger or find a proper power source (most likely both) in the background? Yes, you'd prob come for me saying "He can't get stronger because he does not exists". Thing is, he does. In generations, he's aware of being erased from the timeline. My take is that: If given prep time, Mephiles finds a way to outwit Infinite, given that jackal is not as skilled with it and just spams random bs all over the place. And as other commentator said, Mephiles' one who learns. No prep time and emeralds? If Mephiles is not given context or does not try to go in past as video says, Infinite no-low diffs him in raw contest. Not one shot, bet Meph would still pull a good trick or two, but nah, he def needs prep and context. 2 emeralds given? We have not seen them in Forces at all. Does not guarantees a victory but gives some extent to a fight.
My only thing is, didn't the events and going back to kill the flame of Solaris make it so sonic 06 was erase from everyone's memories... And there's no real proof or confirmation that shadow remembers who Memphiles is in sonic x shadow generations either... So if that holds true then Dr eggman would not have included mephiles in the 1mil/tril times greater analogy because he wouldn't have memories of any of 06 right... Because that entire game erased itself from memory and if I'm correct existence?? Right?? Or am I crazy....
It’s more of a Ninjago Skybound situation where Elise and Sonic are the only ones who have any recollection of it happening. It happened, but the events are diverged from the main timeline.
Hello, and welcome to my yapping session. Feel free to disagree with my brooding or anything I say, I will infact, probably still stand by what I say. People who keep pushing this fight don't understand what it really implies. I hate to be the one shitting on Forces yet again, but the story and how they handled abilities don't do Infinite any favors. The game treats a lot of his feats as flashy, but they lack real substance. Take the whole 'summoning a sun' thing - it sounds huge, but if you look at how the story plays out, it's more of a spectacle than a true power move. Sonic and friends survive it pretty easily, so it doesn't hold the weight you'd expect from something that extreme. Does better story writing equal stronger character? Strength? Probably not. Everything else? I'd argue it does. Now, I'll admit that in a straight one-on-one fight, without any trump cards, Infinite would overpower Mephiles physically. Infinite has the upper hand when it comes to raw strength and brute force - he's designed to be a powerful fighter, especially with the Phantom Ruby boosting his abilities. Mephiles, though, isn't meant to be a brawler. His strength comes from his mind, his patience, and his manipulation of situations. He's more about playing the long game and setting up scenarios where he doesn't need to rely on physical power alone to win. And here's the thing with Forces and Infinite: Forces was written under Ken Pontac, and he's known for focusing on flashy moments over consistency. With writers like Pontac, power levels get exaggerated, and on some occasions, greatly underpresented, to drive the plot or create spectacle, often without much regard for a character's established strengths. We've seen this with Shadow, who's shifted from the powerful, serious rival in earlier games to someone who's often sidelined or reduced to one-liners, almost like a joke version of himself. The same thing happens with Sonic too - his strength fluctuates wildly depending on who's writing him, from unstoppable to barely holding his own. With Infinite, it's almost like he's meant to be the ultimate 'shock-value' villain. His power is all about big, bold displays meant to look impressive, like summoning a sun or warping reality in ways that seem more for show than real danger. That makes Infinite more of a gimmick character - his power feels over-the-top, but without the weight behind it to make it last. If we look at Mephiles's abilities, they're rooted in the story, consistent across different forms, and connected to a clear purpose. Infinite, by contrast, feels almost like he was written as a 'gag villain' - his abilities are impressive but lack depth and depend heavily on his writer's choice to push drama rather than give him any real staying power. So while Infinite might look powerful, his role in the story is more for the spectacle, almost like a plot device. Mephiles, on the other hand, is a serious threat whose abilities carry meaning and consistency. The difference is that Mephiles is there to be a lasting menace, while Infinite feels more like an extreme character written to add temporary tension. (Also, if we're letting Infinite use his almighty power source, the Phantom Ruby, why are we acting as the Chaos Emeralds are a cheap power boost to Mephiles?)
@@StrangestDetriment08..- I don't believe that's the case with Mephiles. It's less about the Emeralds dormant power, and more what he can do with them. If we're assuming this is post 06 Mephiles, he'd easily be able to go back to any point in time during that game using those Emeralds, and that includes uniting with Iblis. I don't think many understand the sheer implications of Solaris. It's a being that surpasses any dimension, due to being present in all time periods at the same time. You'd have to be able to inflict damage to it on a four-dimensional plane, which the main cast was only barely able to do. It took Elise, the person carrying Iblis to actually erase it from existence in the end. What were we to do if she was not present? Also, it's always easy to say "My power level is ten trillion!" but I believe it's also important for said power feat to have something backing it up, which there... isn't that I know of, because of Forces just being shittily written..
Okay, but the problem is, in a fight like this, Mephiles doesn’t really have anything on Infinite. You can talk about his character and all that stuff, but the fact is Infinite can easily overpower Mephiles in any regard. Just because he’s more “consistent” doesn’t mean he wins.
@@lx5323 Nah I feel very sure Mephiles can win honestly He's rather smart and he can still pace with Shadow where Mephiles is basically Shadows equal still in Shadow Generations Hell even the Time Eater was scared of his ass Mephiles also has other abilities where it can fuck with Infinite Not to mention Mephiles also has more defensive options where Infinite cannot touch him And he can then sneak up on Infinite and deal a deadly blow
@ Each Sonic villain/antagonist isn’t more powerful than the previous like Dragon Ball villains are. Like Dark Gaia definitely isn’t anywhere close to Solaris’ level of power, as a matter of fact no one has come anywhere close to Solaris level since. The reasoning for the The End being anywhere close to Solaris’ level is just if you take it’s monologue way too literally which I feel like isn’t something you just automatically do without proper shit to back it up. Especially when Ian Flynn has already said The End is very egotistical and shit so it just has a massive ego lol Also only Sonic and Shadow generally “scale” to each other, everyone else is questionable
@darkchaos3474 They are lol. You're telling me Mecha Sonic MK0 is as strong as Metal Sonic? That the Death Egg Robot and the Time Eater are equally powerful? That the Super Egg Robot is weaker than the Egg Wizard? That Metal Overlord is as powerful as Solaris because he took on three Super Forms? That sounds ridiculous and pure headcanon because there's nothing alluding to this at all. You can literally scale this with math and it's easy to do. Solaris isn't this all-powerful entity you think he is. He's only had a powerful showing, it doesn't mean no other villain isn't more powerful than him. In fact, Solaris is power crept literally the next few games with Dark Gaia. Despite popular belief, Solaris didn't take on three Super hedgehogs at the same time. In fact, it's literally stated that considering Solaris is omnipresent throughout all of time, each hedgehog had to take Solaris on in each era of time. The past, present, and future. They weren't side-by-side, but in those eras. This means Solaris lost each 1v1. In the manual, it even states that Sonic was capable of taking on Solaris on his own, but needed help as taking down ONE Solaris wouldn't work, thus having some extra hands did the trick. Meanwhile, Dark Gaia took on two Super-level beings (the Emerald-powered Gaia Colossus and Super Sonic). This time, both at the same time. Even then, Super Sonic didn't really kill Dark Gaia, but put it to sleep and needed help from Chip to even do so. The same logic can be applied to the Egg Wizard, as it took on two Super-level threats at once, with the Time Eater scaling above all of that due to erasing all of time and rendering it to a pure White Void casually, something that Solaris was going to do and this was before Eggman improved upon it with cyborgization. If your logic is that none of the villains are more powerful than the other, this should also apply to Solaris, which you immediately go back on and say he's the strongest. This train of thinking doesn't make much sense. Sonic scaling is super easy, nobody just wants to actually take time to do it. Also, Ian Flynn statements aren't the be-all end-all lol. This is coming from the same guy that says Sonic loses to Kid Goku or that or that Sonic is only planet level, despite the fact that Sonic has shown he's literally not. Word of God isn't everything and requires contextual analysis. Just because he says that The End is overconfident, it doesn't make his placing in scale less valid. This could literally mean anything, but from what we do know is that The End is a conceptual embodiment of Death and has passive fate hax. The End most likely was going off of the presumption that Sonic couldn't make a meaningful victory that wouldn't get triumphed over by the fate hax. Sage even states that Sonic is defying fate and causality itself, which tracks with The End's insinuating of being unable to be denied. Sonic actually COULDN'T even win unless he got that power-up and started winning. Most threats Super Sonic faces usually do not pose as much of a threat to him. But this time around, he was powerless against The End until using the Starfall/Cyber Super forms. Based off of the comparison in the damage he deals to The End when in Super to Starfall, we can see that it is hundreds of times more powerful than the normal Super Form, something that no other threat in Sonic history has EVER faced. Also, again, this logic at the end is contradictory to your point of "there is no power creep". If by your word that there is no power creep, then they would all absolutely scale to one another. Not that it matters because the Sonic Verse doesn't pay attention to powerscaling. All of them are able to harm one another, keep pace, and have superior stats in one or more regards. It's a verse with checks and balances.
"This ultimate weapon will pay back all history of defeats and memories of humiliation to you a trillionfold!" To me this line does not read as Eggman stating that Infinite is a trillion times stronger than past Sonic villians but instead Eggman saying that all the pain he's been through will be inflicted upon Sonic a trillion times. At no point in the statement that you provided does Eggman ever mention another past villian or compare Infinite to said past villian. Eggman is not speaking about Infinite's power here otherwise he would have said something more along the lines of "compared to your past encounters, Infinite's power is trillions of times stronger than them" or something along those lines. The statement you provided is too vague to conclude that Infinite is a trillion times stronger than past Sonic villians (I know that's not what you concluded, just thought it worth mentioning).
Yeah, this is intended as him saying it will be inflicted upon Sonic a trillionfold more than what he's done to him, but even so, Infinite scales multiple sets of infinity above nearly every single one of the previous villains besides maybe the one just before Forces.
Except we also have a guide outside of Eggman where it’s outright stated that Infinite is superior to all of Sonic’s previous opponents. Regardless of how you interpret Eggman’s statements, Infinite is in fact stronger.
@@playerback7722 He does scale above Solaris and Time Eater quite casually, hell, even Solaris is scaled higher by the Egg Wizard, Egg Dragoon, Egg Robos from Colors, like there's ALOT
People forget mephiles has control over time as well and can see through illusions he literally forced himself back into existence via time eaters meddling despite his time line being erased by the super hedgehog trio
Hate has also blinded them from seeing what he could do as a villain and those that do that refuse to accept it just whine like toddlers in mental clinics
Mephiles is truly evil where infinite the jackal is just a heartbroken canine who has lost his way. Infinite lost his mind because shadow murdered his family
I still don't like Infinite and still think he's one the worst villains in the series, and let's be real, Eggman's comment of him "being a trillion times stronger" is nothing but an exaggeration. Having said that, yes, Infinite still claps Mephiles, as much as I hate to admit it. So does this mean Sage claps both Infinite and Mephiles?
Don't forget the fact that the Phantom Ruby's power is theoretically stated by Eggman even surpassing the power of the Master Emerald or on par with it
Given that I don't think Infinite would rely on Null Space against a weaker opponent, and Mephiles just doesn't like the hands on approach, I think there's a good chance that Mephiles dips out of time before Infinite traps him in Null Space. But there is also the question of how much Mephiles can alter the past, because even with time travel, my understanding is he was stuck in a time loop, so it's very possible that everything he changes through time was always going to happen and only when combined as Solaris could he actually overcome time.
Solaris is still the strongest Sonic villain in general. We even got Ian Flynn directly stating as such when asked about The End vs Solaris. Nearly 2 decade old villain btw
haven't watched the video yet, so This is my prediction. Infinite would win. I know infinite has shitty writing, But the guy's power is actually SUPER broken. It has a stupid description in the game, but it's basically just reality warping. Hell, with the "big wave" operation, it's shown as really STRONG reality warping, with kaiju Infinite's everywhere, reversing gravity, and other such BS. Mephiles is strong, no doubt, but (alone, I'm not counting Solaris) he can't really stand up to just straight up reality warping. an argument against infinite is that he actually needs to hit you with his power first, but there's no evidence that mephiles is nearly fast enough to dodge it (after all, sonic got hit with the thing several times and he's SONIC) Another thing In Infinite's corner is that he can summon exact copies of some of Sonic's greatest foes with seemingly no problems. as in the game, "They may have no soul, but their just as strong as the originals" Thats some SEROIUS power, an exact copy of Shadow, Zavoc AND Chaos? that's insane! In fact, just the fact that infinite can copy shadow is all the win condition he needs, as we can see that shadow beats mephiles no problem in shadow gen, now imagine 5 copies or even more of Shadow vs mephiles. Mephiles's clone trick doesn't even work here cause Infinite can literally do the exact same thing. I'm not even gonna count Null Space or dropping the Sun, because those things needed preparation by Dr Eggman. frankly, I think even Solaris would have trouble against those two things, as Null Space is basically just a blackhole into total nothingness, and again, dropping the *freaking SUN* But again, i'm not including Solaris or those two feats as they are different then mephiles and Infinite. Null and sun Is an infinite with prep time, which i'm not giving him, and Solaris is NOT Mephiles, and Iblis isn't happening in this discussion.
Infinite is sorry asf. He got beat by a base form Sonic and a roomie Avatar, you cannot convince me he is beating an evil malevolent half of a sun time god
@@groudonor12 To add to this, Mephiles is implied to be a coward. Blinding Sonic with an Emerald, before attacking Sonic from behind (which in itself is an act of cowardice), sending Silver to kill Sonic, instead of doing it himself. Mephiles knew that someone like Sonic would give him trouble, and Infinite beat Sonic in the first round, with his only past experience fighting super-sonic hedgehogs being when he got stomped by Shadow.
@@Khronen-r3umephiles is honestly a fraud power wise, he can't do anything himself, if he was this all powerful god why didn't he fight sonic himself? Why couldn't he kill Team Dark? Why did he have to recuit people to do his deeds if he could effortlessly do it himself
@@Sonicishellagoatedbecause he enjoys making people suffer he very well could have killed everyone himself he just wanted to "play with his food" which I will admit was his downfall
The hardest part about this debate is Infinite's side of things mainly cause The Phantom Ruby is probably the most *inconsistent* mcguffin in the franchise's history. Literally all the in-universe explanations contradict each other in some way. The most accurate, but simplified, way of putting it is that The Phantom Ruby can create *holograms with mass* and can even copy the physical characteristics of whatever he's copying, with him being able to expand its area of effect to basically make himself a veritable god in his own little pocket dimension. And even that doesn't cover the full bag of tricks this thing has. Now, as its alredy covered with the power creep, I do think that in terms of sheer stats Infinite probably takes it outside of durability (since Mephiles is straight up immortal) However, if this was a more non-traditional battle then I can see Mephiles taking it for one reason: *his cunning* Keep in mind, thoughout Sonic 06 there are several points where Mephiles meets Shadow and Silver out of chronological order and still manipulates them successfully. He plays on Silver's desperation and Shadow's doubts to *try* and make them pawns in his grand scheme. He only fails because they grew past their flaws and saw him for the monster he really was. A monster that couldn't *understand* that fundimental hope and desire to do good because he's s consumed with hate & a lust for destruction. But Infinite? He's an insecure manchild who became a supervillain cause Shadow whopped his arse and called him weak one time. He is EXACTLY the type of person Mephiles could run circles around. He could swallow his pride and present himself as a "humble advisor" to "the avatar of strength" , playing to Infinite's ego, goading him to go cause havoc and take on Sonic & Shadow. Then once they whop his arse *again* , Mephiles steals the Phantom Ruby and disappears to ready his next big plan. *That* is how Mephiles would approach someone like Infinite. Why do all the hard work when you have others to do it for you? That's not even considering that, while The Phantom Ruby can seemingly travel dimensions/alternate universes(?) , there is nothing to suggest it can travel through time. So all Mephiles would have to do is send Infinite to a distant point in time, like the far future, where he's just a non-factor.
@@Zero_de_Nova Eggman also pops up at the end of the game, claiming that the Ruby was powering his new Death Egg Robot. I'm telling you man, the writers couldn't agree on jack sh!t when it came to the Ruby even in the same game.
@@Zero_de_Nova Looked it up and you're right. Eggman apparently had the original in his possesion, whereas Infinite had a "perfected" Ruby. Would have been nice to have had that info *in the game* instead of outside material -_-
Thank you very much for making this video. Thank you for going for the time and research to put in this video. I agree with every statement that’s in this video.
Recently discovered your channel and I love it! I’m so happy that you actually know about Sonic lore and their feats! You’re actually one of the reasons that made me open my eyes that The End was actually more powerful than Solaris. So thank you for your work my friend! By the way what was that version of Infinite’s theme you used at 2:30? It sounded like a remix/mashup of all of Infinite’s themes into one.
Itt doesn't matter about the facts because it was explained in 06 that's Mephiles possesses the knowledge whilst Iblis held the strength, Mephiles and Iblis were just a half of the villain, The true villain that is the most powerful fo all villains is Solaris.
Just to remind you all. In Japanese, Tails said that they're under the effects of the phantom ruby and that the sun was real to them. The phantom ruby works similar to that of slade's mask in teen titans, where it creates illusions that affect a person hard enough to actually hurt them for real. Though it's unclear how Infinite's able to fly and create nullspace, but I assumed that it might be some kind of manipulated chaos energy. Since chaos emeralds turn thoughts into power, a ruby that can mess with your thoughts makes it also seem to work more like a zombie virus for chaos energy and work like a great evil version of the emeralds.
Infinite: Oh you thought Mephiles was supposed to stop me? I can literally just trap him endlessly, I can also cheat time. There's literally an endless amount of ways I could win this.
Mephiles winning through Time Travel would also have to require him even knowing who Infinite is and what his past is in the first place. In a no prep time scenario, where Mephiles has to come back from nonexistence like in Generations, it’s unlikely he’ll be able to get that info
I don't think those two are fighting each other from the start. I think Mephiles is going to manipulate Infinite, and is going to use Infinite's reality warping to bring back Iblis and become Solaris, Infinite of course hates Shadow just as much as Mephiles so manipulating him is super easy, if he can manipulate Blaze then Infinite is a piece of cake. I think after mephiles has become Solaris and destroys all of time and space that Infinite thinks oh shit maybe I made a mistake and he's probably going to team up with the heroes to defeat Solaris
As much as I hate infinite being stronger then sonic previous better villains Yh make sence for him to be more powerful. Great vid and really good powerscaling in your videos keep up the good work
There was an excellent video depicted by Shadow795 that showed what a fight between these two might look like. Much like how you explained, Infinite can simply trap Mephiles in a pocket dimension where he is in full control. Infinite is definitely an underrated character compared to Mephiles
I find the argument that Mephiles couldn't react to Shadow in sonic x shadow generations somewhat void by the doom power. If Infinite was in the game, I doubt he would be able to react too and even if he did manage to bring shadow into an illusion or into null space, what is saying shadow couldn't break free? I think if the scepter was involved then Infinite could potentially weaken Mephiles to the point he is forced back inside but I could also believe that with enough time (and no scepter) mephiles could recognise a pattern and defeat infinite. Or just break the ruby. Rip it out of his chest. Etc Lol
Okay, I’m sick of people saying “just rip out the Phantom Ruby.” First of all, bold of you to assume Infinite would let someone do that, let alone Mephiles who is slower than him Second of all, if that thing can survive a direct impact from Double Boost, (which can escape Null Space) then it’s not breaking easily Third, you do release that the Ruby is quite literally apart of Infinite, right? That’s like saying you could just rip Sonic’s heart out. Like, yeah, you COULD, but good luck trying to And good luck to Mephiles trying to recognize a pattern when Infinite traps him in Null Space, because that point, that’s his new prison
And then you forget that Mephiles can travel through time at will and kill Infinite the way he wants (plus he's immortal and can't even be sealed at his prime).
So if infinte can use the phantom ruby why cant mephiles have the chaos emeralds as if we compared them without external powerups (phantom ruby and chaos emeralds) mephiles win. It just doesnt make sense why you would powerscale infinte with a external power up but not allowing mephiles to use his external boost.
Mephiles is still superior to Infinite in terms of intelligence and Fan Appeal. Secondly, Infinite's creation could've only been possible because of Paranormal Circumstances, meaning without the Phantom Ruby, Sonic, Shadow, and potentially Mephiles could've easily run circles around Infinite
I'mma do my best to counterpoint this, 'cuz I'm not so sure it's *that* lopsided. Keep in mind that Mephiles isn't a fighter by trade, he's a schemer, and Infinite's power comes directly from the Phantom Ruby, *which is displayed in full view on his chest.* Infinite could wail on Mephiles for the whole fight, bring him to the edge of defeat, and STILL LOSE because something clicked in Mephiles' head that "hey, that Ruby's giving this guy his power; I should probably take that out." One well-aimed shot at the Ruby, and Infinite becomes just a normal, slightly above-average jackal. No more Ruby, means no more illusions, means Infinite's cooked.
I mean literally everyone in forces knew that the ruby was his power source too, and they never got a chance to take it from him because of his superior speed, which is also the case here.
@@polonium9921 They aren't as haxed out as Mephiles though. Memphis Tennnesse could pull some crazy shit like "haha secret clone bitch" and bam that's the end of that Or hell, even time travel. Have another Memphis go back in time to the start of the fight and take out the Ruby while Infinite is preoccupied with the present Memphis
Honestly agree that this isn't close. Infinite was handling a much stronger Sonic effortlessly at the start of Forces. Then Sonic got far stronger between the six months before they fought again and Infinite basically toyed with him, shrugging off all of his attacks and just leaving. The only time Infinite was actually pressed was when his powers were weakened and he'd just weakened them even further by summoning the freaking SUN to kill everybody. Even then it was a close fight, and after, it's implied that Infinite still could have fought, if not for Eggman betraying him. I genuinely think the fight just has infinite realize Mephilis looks like Shadow, summon a clone of Forces Shadow, and grab some popcorn and laugh as that version of Shadow bodies mephilis. If he can SOMEHOW squeak out a win there, Infinite just traps him in null space and forgets he ever existed.
OBJECTION! Can’t Mephilis just go back to before the fight with infinite once he is starting to be weakened? Yes, if infinite starts with the null space portal, Mephilis is dead. But infinite spares using the attack in his fight with sonic, let alone a random hedgehog he’s never met. So, he can teleport back in time once distracting infinite with his little army that they both have, then teleport back in time 1-5 years or so. He can have the upper hand constantly learning how infinite fights, and can slowly but surely win the battle.
I really appreciate it going this way, honestly when I saw the title, I assumed you'd argue the opposite just because people like Mephiles more than Infinate, I apologise for misjudging you. Infinate had a great design, voice acting, and a brilliant concept as the first guy Sonic literally couldn't take down alone in any form - apart from Dark Gia - but his potentual was somewhat wasted with an anticlimactic conclusion and any complexity being religated to supplimental work. If we'd seen sonic struggling throughout the game with the fact he couldn't defeat Infinate, with him trying to challenge him even when advised against it and causing the heroes to lose, then him asking for help could be him setting aside his pride. Instead though, Sonic just keeps going in confident and then pretty much just says "Power of friendship" and it works. Honestly Sonic forces just needed to be a lot longer, both in stages and in story, and it was a weird effect with Infinate overshadowwing Eggman for the entire game only to then have a pretty anticlimactic battle before Eggman becomes the main villain again for the final boss. If you defeated the Death Egg Robot only for Infinate to then break free from Eggman's control and be the final boss, that would be more appropriate. IDK, much like Mephiles, Infinate's too good for the game he was in, except a lot of his best aspects aren't in the game. My final note is that I find Shadow generrations to be somewhat strange for power scaling, he's able to solo Metal Overlord pretty early on, this being the guy who took three super characters to overcome before. And Forces levels also show up in the game, I'm guessing through time travel, it's just somewhat puzzling that he seems so much stronger than other versions of himself, and also Generrations Sonic, the second bosses in those games just seen to be out of parity with the others, Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord should both be way stronger than the other bosses in the game besides the Time Eater.
Mephiles hearing infinite wanting him dead and realizing he’s actually really damn capable of it because he would do research before literally anything just opts to immediately go back in time before the fight even starts and just kick his ass when he was literally effortless for shadow to beat up and ambush him He would not willingly fight a force like infinite head on he’s gonna take his free win just go back in time stab infinite while he’s just a jackal and leave Saying infinite would cast him into null space implied mephiles would make himself known immediately that’s the thing He wouldn’t he never would he’d watch from the background see what he’s capable of doing and take the easy answer when he realizes the fun one is basically suicidal and if mephiles saw null space? Yeah he’s not even approaching infinite with the phantom ruby
Enough of whether Infinite or Mephiles would win in a fight The real question is how many seconds would both of them would last against Shadow without his inhibitor rings
@@gabrielmachado1247 Yeah no he wouldn't Mephiles literally sent clones to hold him there while he deals with Sonic which probably took minutes to do He's intelligent where he can fool you
As much as Eggman can’t say infinite is stronger than mephiles, the only real, in the moment, way that mephiles could win is by damaging the phantom ruby, which would take a LOT of specific actions to be taken in the fight. (Also again, Eggman doesn’t remember mephiles, so his word means nothing. But also again a lot of things have to go right for Mephiles to win)
Even if they said Infinite was 100 times more powerful than any threat Sonic has faced doesn’t matter because Mephiles doesn’t exist anymore in the timeline. But I wonder how powerful Mephiles would be with the Phantom ruby.
I think you forgot that Infinite has a limit to how much of the perfected copy, at least I think since Eggman uses the real one as the final Boss, of the Phantom Ruby he has been using since creating the Sun it requires recharge for his final fight against Sonic and the Avatar Mephiles has shown to create clones without the Emeralds in Generations so I guess that is a boost to his power but not by a lot You also forgot the part that the fragments of the Ruby prototype can fall off as shown in the Silver vs Infinite and Null space doesn't take up a lot of space when being created and it doesn't last long as shown in the cutscene the clones created from Phantom Ruby requires a pretty strong/ weak blow, looking at you Charmy, copies vs the resistance members scene compare to the clones created by Mephiles which Shadow must have hit hard and the Doom Spears packs a punch as well
I still think mephiles wins, as said he can lose infinitely giving him time to break infinite mentaly. Big part of mephilises plan was not doing it straight up, but breaking everyone so they dont do anything to stop him when he pulls the trigger
Base mephiles may be weak however merged as Solaris would make it truly impossible for infinite to beat him because he can't split himself between past present and future and two it took three super forms to beat Solaris while it only took base sonic and the avatar to beat infinite without the chaos emeralds. This might be considered irrelevant as Solaris is generally considered a separate entity but i thought I'd give my take.
Imagine if infinite was a trillion times stronger than the egg wizard, a robot that super sonic himself said "yeah, we can't beat that, just fight and pray for a miracle" a sonic that crushed solaris that is
Infinite messed with Dimensions that erase the concepts of time and space, so I don't see your point here, the entire narrative supports Infinite just obliterating Mephiles, Mephiles got no diffed by Generations era Shadow who didn't need his doom powers or the use of removing his inhibitor rings while Infinite can oneshot Forces Era Sonic and Silver who are very much comparable to Forces Shadow + has overall better hype statements
Dude Mephiles wasn't even at his full power Yes you heard me the only reason why he lost is because of how desperate he was to exist he didn't even use his full power I mean where were the two monster forms in Shadow generations and also to debunk the null space how were Sonic and the custom hero able to escape no space if there was no time I mean if there was no time then he would have never escape the null space so that would be an easy ticket for infinite to get killed
I feel like infinite had a lot of potential, I think it’s just the cartoony silly style of the game and character models and his story and how he acts, for a example imagine infinite in the 06 art style and his backstory was more like maybe he could’ve been part of a royal hackle family known for being a skilled fighter and, in this version he has the mask too before he has the phantom ruby but maybe he was very prideful and boastful. Maybe one day him and shadow fought and he lost making him look embarrassing to his people and family so he became spiteful and vengeful, he discovers the phantom ruby and uses it and there’s somewhat of a backstory. Idk there’s many possibilities
Mephiles will win eventually since he is immortal, however Infinite while mortal is the stronger one so he will win the most battles. Mephiles has to wait until Infinite is finished or use his time powers to finished Infinite before he got the Phantom Ruby.
I don't like Sonic Forces, but with how much power creep and overall scaling in between Sonic games where the characters constantly shown to get stronger in the series, Infinite just from stats alone is superior to Mephiles in every way. Also, Mephiles being a schemer while Infinite is an actual soldier, I think it's clear who is the clear winner. And don't get me started on hax because Nullspace and powerful illusions from the Phantom Ruby is more powerful than anything Mephiles has done without the Chaos Emeralds.
Infinite isnt a TRILLION times stronger than the strongest sonic foes, that was definitely an exaggeration, but he does have feats proving that he is stronger to some extent
Something I want to mention is I don't think Infinite is that strong Not to mention the only reason why he is this strong is literally just the Phatom Ruby You can take it away and Infinite is back to being very much weak and he only has combat after Mephiles too has more broken stuff as well And Mephiles even states that his power is infinite At least there's truth to it because he doesn't exactly need the Phatom Ruby and the Chaos Emeralds more mostly upgraded his abilities and Mephiles probably does scale with Shadow since he does share simular stats with him and the only way exactly to beat Mephiles is to seal him away and hopefully he doesn't give you the middle finger and just breaks free from it and what really tells you more is that he was sealed from Time Eater with a third key needed He is clearly much more threatening enough for the Time Eater going at him and sending him to be sealed away in 3 different ways
Durability is easily going to mephiles the only way to defeat him is to seal him and we saw mephiles tank a bunch of shadow's hits including chaos control also SXSG should be after frontiers and forces because of sun set heights and chaos island meaning that mephiles should've been going up against a stronger version of shadow
First.... if Infinite *_TRULY_* is immortal... and he cannot be destroyed by typical means... like the Emeralds --- I guess... How is Infinite: supposed to kill, or incapacitate Mephiles ??? Mephiles could just keep restoring himself... and even hide in Infinite's Shadow if he wanted. Matter of fact - Mephiles doesn't even have to WIN a fight against him... he just has to make it *LOOK* like he lost... then hide in Infinite's _shadow..._ _then_ when Infinite, drops his guard: Mephiles *_GANKS_* THE SH***t out of him... with his energy swords... _Sonic_ 06 style. 😈 🔥 🗡
When it does come down,ost say Mephiles is better but I say infinite is better, not bc hes better written when it comes to writing but because it makes sense. Any person like him who then lost to Shadow n' shit from the past and kow gained such immense power yet small imagination, hes just gonna be petty and seem dumb. Most people would just act like him, being too cocky and everything and most have a smaller imagination than they think
The context of the line is not that Infinite is a trillion times stronger, its that he will repay the losses Sonic has caused Eggman a trillion times worse, there is a big difference.
Mephiles being immortal only to infinitely (Pun intended) lose against Infinite is a badass way of saying this confrontation is one-sided.
GREAT MEPILES THE DARK VS INFINITE VIDEO.
Mephiles: Drown in darkness!
Infinite: What makes you think I haven’t?
Iconic
I mean, he is the darkest of days.
Ah, a shadow759 fan. Truly you're a man of class
weird how they made it so infinite is sonic's most threatening enemy through all the feats you mentioned and yet sega did little to nothing substantial with his potential that would prove that bold claim
@@Cruddy129 yeah the writing for sonic in the 2010s was never something to write home about.
Thank god the writing in the recent games is a lot better, so if we ever do get an “infinite” again, they will probably be much more intriguing
He should have been shadows enemy not sonics
Bro, what are you smoking? Infinite was a loser who couldn’t even beat shadow. Memphis is the alpha gamer, who killed sonic and no one to this date has killed sonic aside from him.
@@Nagatemshush bro, Alpha gamer that couldn't kill Sonic directly but resorted to cheap tricks, you must be a joker or a blind hater that only sees things in the surface to not see through Infinites power. Gosh some fans really a something else🤦
Forces Sonic is way powerful than 06 that should tell you something man
@@billyboleson2830that's what I believe, cuz his reason for being Infinite was because of what Shadow did to him
A lot of people here are really overstating how weak Mephiles is, because the whole deal of him “infinitely loosing” due to his immortality is not a possibility if the opponent does the same thing over and over again. One thing that people sort of forget is just how blinded by rage Infinite is throughout the entirety of Sonic Forces, I mean he became Infinite because Shadow called him weak, like come on, he’s very likely to be relying entirely on his power rather than him being a trained professional with the Phantom Ruby, the abilities are just as unpredictable to him as it is to us. With that being said, Mephiles thanks to his immortality can learn every one of his limited array of tricks and in one scenario make a breakthrough. Throughout 06, Mephiles was simply playing around with everybody for his own amusement and was just observing and learnjng their tricks, likely because Sonic, Shadow and Silver were primary threats to his final form Solaris. He could’ve just killed Sonic this whole time, and the fact he did so in the end showed that he was not only powerful, but unpredictable, he can strike from anywhere at any point, and the element of surprise can get even the most powerful of foes.
Remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare, do not underestimate the Tortoise.
Something I want to mention myself is
I don't think Infinite is that strong
Not to mention the only reason why he is this strong is literally just the Phatom Ruby
You can take it away and Infinite is back to being very much weak and he only has combat after
Mephiles too has more broken stuff as well
And Mephiles even states that his power is infinite
At least there's truth to it because he doesn't exactly need the Phatom Ruby and the Chaos Emeralds more mostly upgraded his abilities and Mephiles probably does scale with Shadow since he does share simular stats with him and the only way exactly to beat Mephiles is to seal him away and hopefully he doesn't give you the middle finger and just breaks free from it
Mephiles just is better
And hell I think any more emeralds and his abilities probably get better and they would expand by alot
To further reinstate your point about Mephiles learning his opponents moves, he’s also a FAST learner at that. In Shadow gen’s, if you mash the doom blast button instead of holding, Shadow will do a flurry of kicks. But if you do that more than once, Mephiles will parry it and counterattack
@@Exeternal_Beyonder_Of_Doomsday this is just biased, which has no room in powerscaling
is infinite ass? yes
does he beat mephiles? also yes
Infinite sends him to the void ggs lol
@@vegitoblue4601 Mephiles just walks away while he's charging the Null Space portal, now Infinite has to follow him.
I still prefer Mephiles as he's more of a shady manipulator who doesn't rely on raw power to achieve his goals.
@@PauloVitorHMK It can be _both..._
*_Both_* is good.
🗿
@@PauloVitorHMK villains like that lose miserably and in shock cuz you need brawn too. Infinite isn't smarter but his battle IQ is dangerous game
And then you realize Infinite's biggest source of power is not the Phantom Ruby, but the series' shitty writing in the 2010s
If anything Mephiles would try to make Infinite join his side so they both can just beat the hell out of Shadow. That'd be funny.
Until Mephiles probably steal the Ruby from Infinite...Uh oh
Like hell he would, Infinite would know and shove him a thousand feet deep in null space
Phantom Ruby only works on its first user.
EXCELLENT WORK.
I don't think he would be interested in the Ruby, much like the chaos emeralds they would just be a means to a end in order to fuse with Iblis that has the power to destroy reality. Where as the Ruby seems to have a upper limit when he created a sun which made Infinite "weaker".
@mistermann4163 not really, the ruby he had was a prototype. If he overclocked it like in the fan game Sonic Forces Overclocked you'd see the reality level damage it could cause, it was strong enough to change everything to however Infinite saw fit. The original was still with Eggman and it's stated that it holds more power in it's fragments than the Master emerald itself. Imagine what infinite could do if he had the original, dude would be dropping multiple suns upon them
It's kinda cool that Mephiles returned in SXS Generations, but IMO he should've had a larger role in the story... Maybe have Mephiles and Black Doom team up to fight a stronger Shadow or something
That’s actually a fucking cool concept… perhaps for a DLC?
That or have Mephiles be Black dooms backup.
After all he is technically part black arms.
@@benisaac5615 Mephiles is not Black Arms lol
@@Sharpteeth32I think he said that because he copied Shadow
@@gooeybob_drawing3692 It's just wrong though lol
Doesn’t matter, Uncle Ben. Thwomp clears both of them.
I can see Mephiles taking the Phantom Ruby (the completed version Infinite has and not the actual mania version Eggman used) for himself and maybe even possibly try and fuse it into himself and Iblis when they become Solaris. The Ruby is able to harm Super forms granted Solaris is already able to do that but hey free extra power from him so I can see him doing it anyway
In terms of both the ruby and Solaris being able to damage super forms I’d say it’s basically him taking any threats from the enemy and using it himself
Main weakness of Infinite is his easy to burst emotions honestly, and over the roof ego
Infinite and Sonic Forces had so much potential but it was ruined by shi$$y writing and not the best game mechanics
Finally someone who actually explain a proper fight between the two instead of someone saying Mephiles have better writing so technically he's better at anything and will win the fight
Truly
Don't really think so, he just talks shit and came from nowhere, at least infinite has a good soundtrack.
@Jayler9o Mephiles tries to manipulate Shadow throughout his story in 06 by bringing up his past and traumatic experience with humans. We actually see get characterized as someone who seems to enjoy the suffering of others, relishes the idea of destruction, and is genuinely pure evil. Infnite has nothing going for him aside from whining like a baby his and design and OST.
@Nerdlee-27 and yet he actually had power to end the resistance unlike Mephiles hiding in the dark like a cockroach to stab Sonic with a knife made to kill giants. 🤷
I mean, dude is a god but has nothing to show for it, his most impressive ability is just time travel
@@Jayler9omephilles sound track actually fit. Infinites was just them trying to much
The thing about Infinite is that his power comes from *Phantom* Ruby (also called "Ruby of Illusions"). As stated in Forces, it's a sort of augmented virtual reality that messes with trapped character's perception and 5 senses, not the actual reality, though making them believe it is the real deal with all those hyperboles. Only thing worth about Ruby that I can't wank completely is Null space but I treat it rather as Ruby's pocket dimesnion. And If I remember correctly, they got out mostly because Avatar held the Ruby prototype (which he used later against the fake Sun) as well.
Stat wise, yes, If we scale him to base Forces Sonic, even without Ruby's energy tricks, Infinite can damage 06 and Gen Mephiles a lot. But note a thing that even after return in Gens, Mephiles held quite long against base Shadow who is much stronger than 06 one. What stops me from saying Mephiles can get stronger or find a proper power source (most likely both) in the background? Yes, you'd prob come for me saying "He can't get stronger because he does not exists". Thing is, he does. In generations, he's aware of being erased from the timeline.
My take is that: If given prep time, Mephiles finds a way to outwit Infinite, given that jackal is not as skilled with it and just spams random bs all over the place. And as other commentator said, Mephiles' one who learns. No prep time and emeralds? If Mephiles is not given context or does not try to go in past as video says, Infinite no-low diffs him in raw contest. Not one shot, bet Meph would still pull a good trick or two, but nah, he def needs prep and context. 2 emeralds given? We have not seen them in Forces at all. Does not guarantees a victory but gives some extent to a fight.
Here is a suggestion: Iblis from Sonic 06 vs Ifrit from Sonic Rivals 2.
Generations and Forces have made powerscaling really complicated in this series.
Fr neo metal sonic scales above infirme simply because he cooked base sonic and knuckles in the idw comics
Btw The ruby was stated to be superior to Master Emerald by Eggman.
My only thing is, didn't the events and going back to kill the flame of Solaris make it so sonic 06 was erase from everyone's memories... And there's no real proof or confirmation that shadow remembers who Memphiles is in sonic x shadow generations either... So if that holds true then Dr eggman would not have included mephiles in the 1mil/tril times greater analogy because he wouldn't have memories of any of 06 right... Because that entire game erased itself from memory and if I'm correct existence?? Right?? Or am I crazy....
Exactly
It’s more of a Ninjago Skybound situation where Elise and Sonic are the only ones who have any recollection of it happening. It happened, but the events are diverged from the main timeline.
Maybe Erazor Djinn ve Merlinna next?
Shadow vs Blaze would be cool too
Hello, and welcome to my yapping session. Feel free to disagree with my brooding or anything I say, I will infact, probably still stand by what I say.
People who keep pushing this fight don't understand what it really implies. I hate to be the one shitting on Forces yet again, but the story and how they handled abilities don't do Infinite any favors. The game treats a lot of his feats as flashy, but they lack real substance. Take the whole 'summoning a sun' thing - it sounds huge, but if you look at how the story plays out, it's more of a spectacle than a true power move. Sonic and friends survive it pretty easily, so it doesn't hold the weight you'd expect from something that extreme.
Does better story writing equal stronger character? Strength? Probably not. Everything else? I'd argue it does.
Now, I'll admit that in a straight one-on-one fight, without any trump cards, Infinite would overpower Mephiles physically. Infinite has the upper hand when it comes to raw strength and brute force - he's designed to be a powerful fighter, especially with the Phantom Ruby boosting his abilities. Mephiles, though, isn't meant to be a brawler. His strength comes from his mind, his patience, and his manipulation of situations. He's more about playing the long game and setting up scenarios where he doesn't need to rely on physical power alone to win.
And here's the thing with Forces and Infinite: Forces was written under Ken Pontac, and he's known for focusing on flashy moments over consistency. With writers like Pontac, power levels get exaggerated, and on some occasions, greatly underpresented, to drive the plot or create spectacle, often without much regard for a character's established strengths. We've seen this with Shadow, who's shifted from the powerful, serious rival in earlier games to someone who's often sidelined or reduced to one-liners, almost like a joke version of himself. The same thing happens with Sonic too - his strength fluctuates wildly depending on who's writing him, from unstoppable to barely holding his own.
With Infinite, it's almost like he's meant to be the ultimate 'shock-value' villain. His power is all about big, bold displays meant to look impressive, like summoning a sun or warping reality in ways that seem more for show than real danger. That makes Infinite more of a gimmick character - his power feels over-the-top, but without the weight behind it to make it last. If we look at Mephiles's abilities, they're rooted in the story, consistent across different forms, and connected to a clear purpose. Infinite, by contrast, feels almost like he was written as a 'gag villain' - his abilities are impressive but lack depth and depend heavily on his writer's choice to push drama rather than give him any real staying power.
So while Infinite might look powerful, his role in the story is more for the spectacle, almost like a plot device. Mephiles, on the other hand, is a serious threat whose abilities carry meaning and consistency. The difference is that Mephiles is there to be a lasting menace, while Infinite feels more like an extreme character written to add temporary tension.
(Also, if we're letting Infinite use his almighty power source, the Phantom Ruby, why are we acting as the Chaos Emeralds are a cheap power boost to Mephiles?)
Excellent question
Even if Mephy used the emeralds they're useless against the ruby, that gem was stated to surpass the master emerald in power
@@StrangestDetriment08..- I don't believe that's the case with Mephiles. It's less about the Emeralds dormant power, and more what he can do with them. If we're assuming this is post 06 Mephiles, he'd easily be able to go back to any point in time during that game using those Emeralds, and that includes uniting with Iblis. I don't think many understand the sheer implications of Solaris. It's a being that surpasses any dimension, due to being present in all time periods at the same time. You'd have to be able to inflict damage to it on a four-dimensional plane, which the main cast was only barely able to do. It took Elise, the person carrying Iblis to actually erase it from existence in the end. What were we to do if she was not present?
Also, it's always easy to say "My power level is ten trillion!" but I believe it's also important for said power feat to have something backing it up, which there... isn't that I know of, because of Forces just being shittily written..
Okay, but the problem is, in a fight like this, Mephiles doesn’t really have anything on Infinite. You can talk about his character and all that stuff, but the fact is Infinite can easily overpower Mephiles in any regard. Just because he’s more “consistent” doesn’t mean he wins.
@@lx5323 Nah I feel very sure Mephiles can win honestly
He's rather smart and he can still pace with Shadow where Mephiles is basically Shadows equal still in Shadow Generations
Hell even the Time Eater was scared of his ass
Mephiles also has other abilities where it can fuck with Infinite
Not to mention Mephiles also has more defensive options where Infinite cannot touch him
And he can then sneak up on Infinite and deal a deadly blow
I WISH I could argue this, but the power creep does prevail here. Saying otherwise would be a bit of wank, so gotta give it to Infinite here.
I feel the same way
Power creep doesn’t exist in Sonic lol
@@darkchaos3474 I meant in regards to past game threats compared to newer game threats. Generally, all Sonic characters scale relative to each other
@ Each Sonic villain/antagonist isn’t more powerful than the previous like Dragon Ball villains are. Like Dark Gaia definitely isn’t anywhere close to Solaris’ level of power, as a matter of fact no one has come anywhere close to Solaris level since. The reasoning for the The End being anywhere close to Solaris’ level is just if you take it’s monologue way too literally which I feel like isn’t something you just automatically do without proper shit to back it up. Especially when Ian Flynn has already said The End is very egotistical and shit so it just has a massive ego lol
Also only Sonic and Shadow generally “scale” to each other, everyone else is questionable
@darkchaos3474 They are lol. You're telling me Mecha Sonic MK0 is as strong as Metal Sonic? That the Death Egg Robot and the Time Eater are equally powerful? That the Super Egg Robot is weaker than the Egg Wizard? That Metal Overlord is as powerful as Solaris because he took on three Super Forms? That sounds ridiculous and pure headcanon because there's nothing alluding to this at all. You can literally scale this with math and it's easy to do.
Solaris isn't this all-powerful entity you think he is. He's only had a powerful showing, it doesn't mean no other villain isn't more powerful than him. In fact, Solaris is power crept literally the next few games with Dark Gaia. Despite popular belief, Solaris didn't take on three Super hedgehogs at the same time. In fact, it's literally stated that considering Solaris is omnipresent throughout all of time, each hedgehog had to take Solaris on in each era of time. The past, present, and future. They weren't side-by-side, but in those eras. This means Solaris lost each 1v1. In the manual, it even states that Sonic was capable of taking on Solaris on his own, but needed help as taking down ONE Solaris wouldn't work, thus having some extra hands did the trick. Meanwhile, Dark Gaia took on two Super-level beings (the Emerald-powered Gaia Colossus and Super Sonic). This time, both at the same time. Even then, Super Sonic didn't really kill Dark Gaia, but put it to sleep and needed help from Chip to even do so. The same logic can be applied to the Egg Wizard, as it took on two Super-level threats at once, with the Time Eater scaling above all of that due to erasing all of time and rendering it to a pure White Void casually, something that Solaris was going to do and this was before Eggman improved upon it with cyborgization. If your logic is that none of the villains are more powerful than the other, this should also apply to Solaris, which you immediately go back on and say he's the strongest. This train of thinking doesn't make much sense. Sonic scaling is super easy, nobody just wants to actually take time to do it.
Also, Ian Flynn statements aren't the be-all end-all lol. This is coming from the same guy that says Sonic loses to Kid Goku or that or that Sonic is only planet level, despite the fact that Sonic has shown he's literally not. Word of God isn't everything and requires contextual analysis. Just because he says that The End is overconfident, it doesn't make his placing in scale less valid. This could literally mean anything, but from what we do know is that The End is a conceptual embodiment of Death and has passive fate hax. The End most likely was going off of the presumption that Sonic couldn't make a meaningful victory that wouldn't get triumphed over by the fate hax. Sage even states that Sonic is defying fate and causality itself, which tracks with The End's insinuating of being unable to be denied. Sonic actually COULDN'T even win unless he got that power-up and started winning. Most threats Super Sonic faces usually do not pose as much of a threat to him. But this time around, he was powerless against The End until using the Starfall/Cyber Super forms. Based off of the comparison in the damage he deals to The End when in Super to Starfall, we can see that it is hundreds of times more powerful than the normal Super Form, something that no other threat in Sonic history has EVER faced.
Also, again, this logic at the end is contradictory to your point of "there is no power creep". If by your word that there is no power creep, then they would all absolutely scale to one another. Not that it matters because the Sonic Verse doesn't pay attention to powerscaling. All of them are able to harm one another, keep pace, and have superior stats in one or more regards. It's a verse with checks and balances.
"This ultimate weapon will pay back all history of defeats and memories of humiliation to you a trillionfold!"
To me this line does not read as Eggman stating that Infinite is a trillion times stronger than past Sonic villians but instead Eggman saying that all the pain he's been through will be inflicted upon Sonic a trillion times. At no point in the statement that you provided does Eggman ever mention another past villian or compare Infinite to said past villian. Eggman is not speaking about Infinite's power here otherwise he would have said something more along the lines of "compared to your past encounters, Infinite's power is trillions of times stronger than them" or something along those lines.
The statement you provided is too vague to conclude that Infinite is a trillion times stronger than past Sonic villians (I know that's not what you concluded, just thought it worth mentioning).
Agreed
Yeah, this is intended as him saying it will be inflicted upon Sonic a trillionfold more than what he's done to him, but even so, Infinite scales multiple sets of infinity above nearly every single one of the previous villains besides maybe the one just before Forces.
@@inksinkanimates8921 not everyone in general....Solaris and Time Eater for example
Except we also have a guide outside of Eggman where it’s outright stated that Infinite is superior to all of Sonic’s previous opponents. Regardless of how you interpret Eggman’s statements, Infinite is in fact stronger.
@@playerback7722 He does scale above Solaris and Time Eater quite casually, hell, even Solaris is scaled higher by the Egg Wizard, Egg Dragoon, Egg Robos from Colors, like there's ALOT
People forget mephiles has control over time as well and can see through illusions he literally forced himself back into existence via time eaters meddling despite his time line being erased by the super hedgehog trio
Being immortal. Doesn't make you immune to be knocked out lol
The Infinite hate is getting too horrendous, WE NEED THIS JACKAL TO GET A RETCON NOW
He's one of my favorite villains in the whole Sonic franchise.
Hate has also blinded them from seeing what he could do as a villain and those that do that refuse to accept it just whine like toddlers in mental clinics
He was reconciled with Neo Metal Sonic with new moves and a new suit now.
@@Lemuel928 so you played Forces Overclocked?
Mephiles is truly evil where infinite the jackal is just a heartbroken canine who has lost his way. Infinite lost his mind because shadow murdered his family
I still don't like Infinite and still think he's one the worst villains in the series, and let's be real, Eggman's comment of him "being a trillion times stronger" is nothing but an exaggeration. Having said that, yes, Infinite still claps Mephiles, as much as I hate to admit it. So does this mean Sage claps both Infinite and Mephiles?
You didn't have to add how you hated the character lol
Infinite is Mephiles’ canonical secret successor..
Sage??? Hmmm
Sage doesn't seem much like a fighting type tbh
Mephiles' just shit, at least Infinite has a really good soundtrack and doesn't keep talking shit.
Black doom>>>>>both.
Mephilies isn't a fighter he's a schemer. His other half Iblis holds all his strength while he is the brains.
Mephiles could just rip the phantom ruby out of his chest or he could just destroy it completely
Acting as if infinite would just stand and take it
Yeah, and I shoot at Sonic the Hedgehog in the face, killing him instantly
@@lx5323W, i threw a knife at solaris, one shotting him effortlessly
@@Sonicishellagoated Used a flamethrower on Perfect Chaos, absolutely sweeping him.
@@josueproductions5007 threw a grenade at Shadow The Hedgehog, blowing him up and killing him instantly
Don't forget the fact that the Phantom Ruby's power is theoretically stated by Eggman even surpassing the power of the Master Emerald or on par with it
Given that I don't think Infinite would rely on Null Space against a weaker opponent, and Mephiles just doesn't like the hands on approach, I think there's a good chance that Mephiles dips out of time before Infinite traps him in Null Space. But there is also the question of how much Mephiles can alter the past, because even with time travel, my understanding is he was stuck in a time loop, so it's very possible that everything he changes through time was always going to happen and only when combined as Solaris could he actually overcome time.
Power scaling in a nutshell: Newer > Older
Not always
Not always the case
Solaris is still the strongest Sonic villain in general. We even got Ian Flynn directly stating as such when asked about The End vs Solaris.
Nearly 2 decade old villain btw
@@Your7T7 gets contridicted by other material sadly
@@Your7T7 Someone inform the power scalers, we got a word of god statement.
haven't watched the video yet, so This is my prediction. Infinite would win. I know infinite has shitty writing, But the guy's power is actually SUPER broken. It has a stupid description in the game, but it's basically just reality warping. Hell, with the "big wave" operation, it's shown as really STRONG reality warping, with kaiju Infinite's everywhere, reversing gravity, and other such BS.
Mephiles is strong, no doubt, but (alone, I'm not counting Solaris) he can't really stand up to just straight up reality warping. an argument against infinite is that he actually needs to hit you with his power first, but there's no evidence that mephiles is nearly fast enough to dodge it (after all, sonic got hit with the thing several times and he's SONIC)
Another thing In Infinite's corner is that he can summon exact copies of some of Sonic's greatest foes with seemingly no problems. as in the game, "They may have no soul, but their just as strong as the originals" Thats some SEROIUS power, an exact copy of Shadow, Zavoc AND Chaos? that's insane! In fact, just the fact that infinite can copy shadow is all the win condition he needs, as we can see that shadow beats mephiles no problem in shadow gen, now imagine 5 copies or even more of Shadow vs mephiles. Mephiles's clone trick doesn't even work here cause Infinite can literally do the exact same thing.
I'm not even gonna count Null Space or dropping the Sun, because those things needed preparation by Dr Eggman. frankly, I think even Solaris would have trouble against those two things, as Null Space is basically just a blackhole into total nothingness, and again, dropping the *freaking SUN* But again, i'm not including Solaris or those two feats as they are different then mephiles and Infinite. Null and sun Is an infinite with prep time, which i'm not giving him, and Solaris is NOT Mephiles, and Iblis isn't happening in this discussion.
Do some Archie match ups next. Enerjak vs The End.
Infinite is sorry asf. He got beat by a base form Sonic and a roomie Avatar, you cannot convince me he is beating an evil malevolent half of a sun time god
You do realise that 0'6 Sonic is weaker than Forces Sonic. Plus, the guy sent a freaking sun over the resistance..
@@groudonor12 To add to this, Mephiles is implied to be a coward. Blinding Sonic with an Emerald, before attacking Sonic from behind (which in itself is an act of cowardice), sending Silver to kill Sonic, instead of doing it himself. Mephiles knew that someone like Sonic would give him trouble, and Infinite beat Sonic in the first round, with his only past experience fighting super-sonic hedgehogs being when he got stomped by Shadow.
@@Khronen-r3umephiles is honestly a fraud power wise, he can't do anything himself, if he was this all powerful god why didn't he fight sonic himself? Why couldn't he kill Team Dark? Why did he have to recuit people to do his deeds if he could effortlessly do it himself
@@Sonicishellagoatedbecause he enjoys making people suffer he very well could have killed everyone himself he just wanted to "play with his food" which I will admit was his downfall
@@newlondowraith22 yet he couldn't even beat 06 shadow without catching him off guard + literally lost to team dark + lost to omega
The hardest part about this debate is Infinite's side of things mainly cause The Phantom Ruby is probably the most *inconsistent* mcguffin in the franchise's history. Literally all the in-universe explanations contradict each other in some way.
The most accurate, but simplified, way of putting it is that The Phantom Ruby can create *holograms with mass* and can even copy the physical characteristics of whatever he's copying, with him being able to expand its area of effect to basically make himself a veritable god in his own little pocket dimension. And even that doesn't cover the full bag of tricks this thing has.
Now, as its alredy covered with the power creep, I do think that in terms of sheer stats Infinite probably takes it outside of durability (since Mephiles is straight up immortal)
However, if this was a more non-traditional battle then I can see Mephiles taking it for one reason: *his cunning*
Keep in mind, thoughout Sonic 06 there are several points where Mephiles meets Shadow and Silver out of chronological order and still manipulates them successfully.
He plays on Silver's desperation and Shadow's doubts to *try* and make them pawns in his grand scheme.
He only fails because they grew past their flaws and saw him for the monster he really was. A monster that couldn't *understand* that fundimental hope and desire to do good because he's s consumed with hate & a lust for destruction.
But Infinite? He's an insecure manchild who became a supervillain cause Shadow whopped his arse and called him weak one time. He is EXACTLY the type of person Mephiles could run circles around. He could swallow his pride and present himself as a "humble advisor" to "the avatar of strength" , playing to Infinite's ego, goading him to go cause havoc and take on Sonic & Shadow. Then once they whop his arse *again* , Mephiles steals the Phantom Ruby and disappears to ready his next big plan. *That* is how Mephiles would approach someone like Infinite. Why do all the hard work when you have others to do it for you?
That's not even considering that, while The Phantom Ruby can seemingly travel dimensions/alternate universes(?) , there is nothing to suggest it can travel through time. So all Mephiles would have to do is send Infinite to a distant point in time, like the far future, where he's just a non-factor.
Is the Ruby not locked to infinite? Eggman did say that.
@@Zero_de_Nova Eggman also pops up at the end of the game, claiming that the Ruby was powering his new Death Egg Robot.
I'm telling you man, the writers couldn't agree on jack sh!t when it came to the Ruby even in the same game.
@filipvadas7602 That was the real ruby from mania, right? Not the fake that infinite has.
@@Zero_de_Nova Looked it up and you're right. Eggman apparently had the original in his possesion, whereas Infinite had a "perfected" Ruby. Would have been nice to have had that info *in the game* instead of outside material -_-
@@filipvadas7602 Yeah, or at least as bonus or extra comic in the games options.
Infinite could make a second scepter of darkness, then seal him inside and then toss it in null-space
Thank you very much for making this video. Thank you for going for the time and research to put in this video. I agree with every statement that’s in this video.
Recently discovered your channel and I love it! I’m so happy that you actually know about Sonic lore and their feats! You’re actually one of the reasons that made me open my eyes that The End was actually more powerful than Solaris. So thank you for your work my friend!
By the way what was that version of Infinite’s theme you used at 2:30? It sounded like a remix/mashup of all of Infinite’s themes into one.
Itt doesn't matter about the facts because it was explained in 06 that's Mephiles possesses the knowledge whilst Iblis held the strength, Mephiles and Iblis were just a half of the villain, The true villain that is the most powerful fo all villains is Solaris.
Just to remind you all. In Japanese, Tails said that they're under the effects of the phantom ruby and that the sun was real to them. The phantom ruby works similar to that of slade's mask in teen titans, where it creates illusions that affect a person hard enough to actually hurt them for real.
Though it's unclear how Infinite's able to fly and create nullspace, but I assumed that it might be some kind of manipulated chaos energy. Since chaos emeralds turn thoughts into power, a ruby that can mess with your thoughts makes it also seem to work more like a zombie virus for chaos energy and work like a great evil version of the emeralds.
Infinite: Oh you thought Mephiles was supposed to stop me? I can literally just trap him endlessly, I can also cheat time. There's literally an endless amount of ways I could win this.
Mephiles winning through Time Travel would also have to require him even knowing who Infinite is and what his past is in the first place. In a no prep time scenario, where Mephiles has to come back from nonexistence like in Generations, it’s unlikely he’ll be able to get that info
I don't think those two are fighting each other from the start.
I think Mephiles is going to manipulate Infinite, and is going to use Infinite's reality warping to bring back Iblis and become Solaris, Infinite of course hates Shadow just as much as Mephiles so manipulating him is super easy, if he can manipulate Blaze then Infinite is a piece of cake.
I think after mephiles has become Solaris and destroys all of time and space that Infinite thinks oh shit maybe I made a mistake and he's probably going to team up with the heroes to defeat Solaris
Infinite seems more like the one that will be joined up into Mephiles because Solaris was too weak against Sonic and co.
@@justice8718 Not exactly
It still required the Hedgehogs and he can even hurt their super forms
Infinite is a fodder lmao. Mephiles negs that fraud
I wish we could see Infinite again, he is such an underrated cool character and we need more of him!
If sxsh gens gets a dlc i hope he shows up as some secret level
I have an idea for a fight you could do next, you should do Erazor Djinn [Secret Rings] vs Dragon Ball as a whole🔥
We see even without chaos emeralds mephiles could summon basically unlimited clones
As much as I hate infinite being stronger then sonic previous better villains Yh make sence for him to be more powerful. Great vid and really good powerscaling in your videos keep up the good work
There was an excellent video depicted by Shadow795 that showed what a fight between these two might look like. Much like how you explained, Infinite can simply trap Mephiles in a pocket dimension where he is in full control. Infinite is definitely an underrated character compared to Mephiles
This should be a interesting match
I find the argument that Mephiles couldn't react to Shadow in sonic x shadow generations somewhat void by the doom power. If Infinite was in the game, I doubt he would be able to react too and even if he did manage to bring shadow into an illusion or into null space, what is saying shadow couldn't break free?
I think if the scepter was involved then Infinite could potentially weaken Mephiles to the point he is forced back inside but I could also believe that with enough time (and no scepter) mephiles could recognise a pattern and defeat infinite.
Or just break the ruby. Rip it out of his chest. Etc
Lol
Okay, I’m sick of people saying “just rip out the Phantom Ruby.”
First of all, bold of you to assume Infinite would let someone do that, let alone Mephiles who is slower than him
Second of all, if that thing can survive a direct impact from Double Boost, (which can escape Null Space) then it’s not breaking easily
Third, you do release that the Ruby is quite literally apart of Infinite, right? That’s like saying you could just rip Sonic’s heart out. Like, yeah, you COULD, but good luck trying to
And good luck to Mephiles trying to recognize a pattern when Infinite traps him in Null Space, because that point, that’s his new prison
The thing about mephilis is that shadow is immortal so the attacks that shadow gets hit by might hurt but can’t kill him
And then you forget that Mephiles can travel through time at will and kill Infinite the way he wants (plus he's immortal and can't even be sealed at his prime).
Can you please do a zavok vs bowser please, I’d be very curious which one would win
So if infinte can use the phantom ruby why cant mephiles have the chaos emeralds as if we compared them without external powerups (phantom ruby and chaos emeralds) mephiles win. It just doesnt make sense why you would powerscale infinte with a external power up but not allowing mephiles to use his external boost.
Acting as if Mephiles has the chance to use them anyway without getting oneshotted
@@Sonicishellagoated Acting as if if if he can acting if he can act
Mephiles is still superior to Infinite in terms of intelligence and Fan Appeal.
Secondly, Infinite's creation could've only been possible because of Paranormal Circumstances, meaning without the Phantom Ruby, Sonic, Shadow, and potentially Mephiles could've easily run circles around Infinite
I'mma do my best to counterpoint this, 'cuz I'm not so sure it's *that* lopsided.
Keep in mind that Mephiles isn't a fighter by trade, he's a schemer, and Infinite's power comes directly from the Phantom Ruby, *which is displayed in full view on his chest.* Infinite could wail on Mephiles for the whole fight, bring him to the edge of defeat, and STILL LOSE because something clicked in Mephiles' head that "hey, that Ruby's giving this guy his power; I should probably take that out." One well-aimed shot at the Ruby, and Infinite becomes just a normal, slightly above-average jackal. No more Ruby, means no more illusions, means Infinite's cooked.
I mean literally everyone in forces knew that the ruby was his power source too, and they never got a chance to take it from him because of his superior speed, which is also the case here.
@@polonium9921 They aren't as haxed out as Mephiles though. Memphis Tennnesse could pull some crazy shit like "haha secret clone bitch" and bam that's the end of that
Or hell, even time travel. Have another Memphis go back in time to the start of the fight and take out the Ruby while Infinite is preoccupied with the present Memphis
Honestly agree that this isn't close. Infinite was handling a much stronger Sonic effortlessly at the start of Forces. Then Sonic got far stronger between the six months before they fought again and Infinite basically toyed with him, shrugging off all of his attacks and just leaving. The only time Infinite was actually pressed was when his powers were weakened and he'd just weakened them even further by summoning the freaking SUN to kill everybody. Even then it was a close fight, and after, it's implied that Infinite still could have fought, if not for Eggman betraying him. I genuinely think the fight just has infinite realize Mephilis looks like Shadow, summon a clone of Forces Shadow, and grab some popcorn and laugh as that version of Shadow bodies mephilis. If he can SOMEHOW squeak out a win there, Infinite just traps him in null space and forgets he ever existed.
Say, how’d you feel about doing a review vid on Death Battle’s Bowser vs Eggman when it comes out? 👀
If you going to use shadow generation use sonic forces Overclocked feats for infinite to.
Mephiles is far better villain then infinite who was just a joke of a villain from the start in my opinion.
Infinite has the best and most debatable statements in sonic history
Now we know who'd win this fight, here's my question: how much of a threat would both Mephiles and Infinite pose if they fused?
@@bigcammy007 a super sonic threat
OBJECTION!
Can’t Mephilis just go back to before the fight with infinite once he is starting to be weakened? Yes, if infinite starts with the null space portal, Mephilis is dead. But infinite spares using the attack in his fight with sonic, let alone a random hedgehog he’s never met. So, he can teleport back in time once distracting infinite with his little army that they both have, then teleport back in time 1-5 years or so. He can have the upper hand constantly learning how infinite fights, and can slowly but surely win the battle.
I really appreciate it going this way, honestly when I saw the title, I assumed you'd argue the opposite just because people like Mephiles more than Infinate, I apologise for misjudging you.
Infinate had a great design, voice acting, and a brilliant concept as the first guy Sonic literally couldn't take down alone in any form - apart from Dark Gia - but his potentual was somewhat wasted with an anticlimactic conclusion and any complexity being religated to supplimental work. If we'd seen sonic struggling throughout the game with the fact he couldn't defeat Infinate, with him trying to challenge him even when advised against it and causing the heroes to lose, then him asking for help could be him setting aside his pride. Instead though, Sonic just keeps going in confident and then pretty much just says "Power of friendship" and it works. Honestly Sonic forces just needed to be a lot longer, both in stages and in story, and it was a weird effect with Infinate overshadowwing Eggman for the entire game only to then have a pretty anticlimactic battle before Eggman becomes the main villain again for the final boss. If you defeated the Death Egg Robot only for Infinate to then break free from Eggman's control and be the final boss, that would be more appropriate. IDK, much like Mephiles, Infinate's too good for the game he was in, except a lot of his best aspects aren't in the game.
My final note is that I find Shadow generrations to be somewhat strange for power scaling, he's able to solo Metal Overlord pretty early on, this being the guy who took three super characters to overcome before. And Forces levels also show up in the game, I'm guessing through time travel, it's just somewhat puzzling that he seems so much stronger than other versions of himself, and also Generrations Sonic, the second bosses in those games just seen to be out of parity with the others, Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord should both be way stronger than the other bosses in the game besides the Time Eater.
mephilies who thought generations shadow was most likley amped since bio lizard recieved a simular boost
Mephiles should win
Mephiles hearing infinite wanting him dead and realizing he’s actually really damn capable of it because he would do research before literally anything just opts to immediately go back in time before the fight even starts and just kick his ass when he was literally effortless for shadow to beat up and ambush him
He would not willingly fight a force like infinite head on he’s gonna take his free win just go back in time stab infinite while he’s just a jackal and leave
Saying infinite would cast him into null space implied mephiles would make himself known immediately that’s the thing
He wouldn’t he never would he’d watch from the background see what he’s capable of doing and take the easy answer when he realizes the fun one is basically suicidal and if mephiles saw null space?
Yeah he’s not even approaching infinite with the phantom ruby
Enough of whether Infinite or Mephiles would win in a fight
The real question is how many seconds would both of them would last against Shadow without his inhibitor rings
Mephiles would last 0.5 seconds just for sheer Gameplay reasons
Infinite would Kill Shadow
@@gabrielmachado1247 Yeah no he wouldn't Mephiles literally sent clones to hold him there while he deals with Sonic which probably took minutes to do
He's intelligent where he can fool you
@@gabrielmachado1247 Infinite would not kill Shadow lol
Shadow beating up Infinite is the reason hw started his villian arc. Shadow can beat him again.@@gabrielmachado1247
@@gabrielmachado1247 “Infinite would kill Shadow” funny joke
As much as Eggman can’t say infinite is stronger than mephiles, the only real, in the moment, way that mephiles could win is by damaging the phantom ruby, which would take a LOT of specific actions to be taken in the fight. (Also again, Eggman doesn’t remember mephiles, so his word means nothing. But also again a lot of things have to go right for Mephiles to win)
Even if they said Infinite was 100 times more powerful than any threat Sonic has faced doesn’t matter because Mephiles doesn’t exist anymore in the timeline. But I wonder how powerful Mephiles would be with the Phantom ruby.
Good points but mephiles is MY GOAT🔥🔥
Should do STH Black Doom vs Mephiles, really curious about your reasoning of that one
Can you please make an Insomniac Peter & Miles vs Sinister Six video?
It's embarrassing I thought Infinite was clapped, due to how abhorrently written Forces was.
I wonder what would happen if Mephiles took the Phantom Ruby?
I think you forgot that Infinite has a limit to how much of the perfected copy, at least I think since Eggman uses the real one as the final Boss, of the Phantom Ruby he has been using since creating the Sun it requires recharge for his final fight against Sonic and the Avatar Mephiles has shown to create clones without the Emeralds in Generations so I guess that is a boost to his power but not by a lot
You also forgot the part that the fragments of the Ruby prototype can fall off as shown in the Silver vs Infinite and Null space doesn't take up a lot of space when being created and it doesn't last long as shown in the cutscene the clones created from Phantom Ruby requires a pretty strong/ weak blow, looking at you Charmy, copies vs the resistance members scene compare to the clones created by Mephiles which Shadow must have hit hard and the Doom Spears packs a punch as well
Excalibur Sonic vs King Mickey from Kingdom Hearts
I still think mephiles wins, as said he can lose infinitely giving him time to break infinite mentaly. Big part of mephilises plan was not doing it straight up, but breaking everyone so they dont do anything to stop him when he pulls the trigger
Base mephiles may be weak however merged as Solaris would make it truly impossible for infinite to beat him because he can't split himself between past present and future and two it took three super forms to beat Solaris while it only took base sonic and the avatar to beat infinite without the chaos emeralds. This might be considered irrelevant as Solaris is generally considered a separate entity but i thought I'd give my take.
Thwomp: *Nah uh, I’d win*
Imagine if infinite was a trillion times stronger than the egg wizard, a robot that super sonic himself said "yeah, we can't beat that, just fight and pray for a miracle" a sonic that crushed solaris that is
Stuff like this is why i say That the Sonic Franchise has such horrible levels of Powercrept that It makes Dragón Ball Super Seem like Peak
Mephiles Tennessee messed with time,Infinite the Jackal messed with dimensions..Your verdict?😒
Infinite messed with Dimensions that erase the concepts of time and space, so I don't see your point here, the entire narrative supports Infinite just obliterating Mephiles, Mephiles got no diffed by Generations era Shadow who didn't need his doom powers or the use of removing his inhibitor rings while Infinite can oneshot Forces Era Sonic and Silver who are very much comparable to Forces Shadow + has overall better hype statements
Could you make perfect chaos vs the biolizard?
Can you debate Insomniac Spider-Man vs Raimi Spider-Man
Should have gotten Enerjak instead.
Dude Mephiles wasn't even at his full power Yes you heard me the only reason why he lost is because of how desperate he was to exist he didn't even use his full power I mean where were the two monster forms in Shadow generations and also to debunk the null space how were Sonic and the custom hero able to escape no space if there was no time I mean if there was no time then he would have never escape the null space so that would be an easy ticket for infinite to get killed
So he's not weak? 🤔🤔
Not at all. Honestly i like Mephiles more, but i do admit Infinite is the superior one in terms of power.
He was weak pre phantom ruby
Yet more bullshit being fed here
I feel like infinite had a lot of potential, I think it’s just the cartoony silly style of the game and character models and his story and how he acts, for a example imagine infinite in the 06 art style and his backstory was more like maybe he could’ve been part of a royal hackle family known for being a skilled fighter and, in this version he has the mask too before he has the phantom ruby but maybe he was very prideful and boastful. Maybe one day him and shadow fought and he lost making him look embarrassing to his people and family so he became spiteful and vengeful, he discovers the phantom ruby and uses it and there’s somewhat of a backstory. Idk there’s many possibilities
Mephiles will win eventually since he is immortal, however Infinite while mortal is the stronger one so he will win the most battles. Mephiles has to wait until Infinite is finished or use his time powers to finished Infinite before he got the Phantom Ruby.
I don't like Sonic Forces, but with how much power creep and overall scaling in between Sonic games where the characters constantly shown to get stronger in the series, Infinite just from stats alone is superior to Mephiles in every way. Also, Mephiles being a schemer while Infinite is an actual soldier, I think it's clear who is the clear winner.
And don't get me started on hax because Nullspace and powerful illusions from the Phantom Ruby is more powerful than anything Mephiles has done without the Chaos Emeralds.
Infinite isnt a TRILLION times stronger than the strongest sonic foes, that was definitely an exaggeration, but he does have feats proving that he is stronger to some extent
Something I want to mention is
I don't think Infinite is that strong
Not to mention the only reason why he is this strong is literally just the Phatom Ruby
You can take it away and Infinite is back to being very much weak and he only has combat after
Mephiles too has more broken stuff as well
And Mephiles even states that his power is infinite
At least there's truth to it because he doesn't exactly need the Phatom Ruby and the Chaos Emeralds more mostly upgraded his abilities and Mephiles probably does scale with Shadow since he does share simular stats with him and the only way exactly to beat Mephiles is to seal him away and hopefully he doesn't give you the middle finger and just breaks free from it and what really tells you more is that he was sealed from Time Eater with a third key needed
He is clearly much more threatening enough for the Time Eater going at him and sending him to be sealed away in 3 different ways
Durability is easily going to mephiles the only way to defeat him is to seal him and we saw mephiles tank a bunch of shadow's hits including chaos control also SXSG should be after frontiers and forces because of sun set heights and chaos island meaning that mephiles should've been going up against a stronger version of shadow
Can you scale mephiles now with a twomp?
First.... if Infinite *_TRULY_* is immortal... and he cannot be destroyed by typical means... like the Emeralds --- I guess...
How is Infinite: supposed to kill, or incapacitate Mephiles ???
Mephiles could just keep restoring himself... and even hide in Infinite's Shadow if he wanted.
Matter of fact - Mephiles doesn't even have to WIN a fight against him...
he just has to make it *LOOK* like he lost...
then hide in Infinite's _shadow..._
_then_ when Infinite, drops his guard:
Mephiles *_GANKS_* THE SH***t out of him... with his energy swords...
_Sonic_ 06 style.
😈 🔥 🗡
Infinite could simply trap Mephiles inside Null Space
@marguya4643 Mephiles could literally teleport him and/or Infinite to another time and place...
and _come back_
*_Indefinitely._*
How about throwing Dark Sonic against some enemies?
When it does come down,ost say Mephiles is better but I say infinite is better, not bc hes better written when it comes to writing but because it makes sense. Any person like him who then lost to Shadow n' shit from the past and kow gained such immense power yet small imagination, hes just gonna be petty and seem dumb. Most people would just act like him, being too cocky and everything and most have a smaller imagination than they think
The context of the line is not that Infinite is a trillion times stronger, its that he will repay the losses Sonic has caused Eggman a trillion times worse, there is a big difference.