Shadow often questions his own existence, but he probably questions Sonic's existence as well. Shadow was created in a laboratory to be the ultimate life form, he was made from an evil alien's DNA and is basically a living chaos emerald, and then you have Sonic who can do almost everything Shadow can do but a little better and he was born naturally
I mean Sonic was prophoced to stop Chaos before he was born and Shadow stated before he lost his memories that Sonic not him might be the ultimate lifeform. You could make an argument that Sonic is the "chosen one " the one who'll save the world.
The answer to this question is ever-changing due to the nature of writing for popular characters. As of Frontiers, Sonic is the stronger character because he’s had more screentime during games later in the timeline. For all we know the next game could come out and he doesn’t have his cyber powers anymore, and he’ll be completely equal to Shadow. He might even be portrayed as complete equals with Shadow with cyber powers, who knows? The only real satisfying answer we’ll ever get that won’t be outdated after a few years, especially now with the marketing success of the Fearless Year of Shadow, is that they are complete equals *on average.* What I’m most upset with is the complete copium from each side of the argument whenever this topic is brought up. The amount of people I’ve seen ignore the fact that Shadow let Sonic win so he could trick him with the fake emerald in their efforts to prove Sonic is superior during Generations baffles me. Equally so, the amount of people who completely ignore the multitude of implications that Sonic is definitely stronger than Shadow during Forces is baffling. My absolute favorite is when people take the dialogue in ‘06 where Shadow says something along the lines of “We’d stand a chance against Solaris… if he were still alive” completely out of context and paint it as if Sonic is so unbelievably stronger than everyone else in the game combined that he alone would allow them to stop Solaris, despite the fact the reason Shadow said this is because he, Silver, and Sonic would all have to go Super *together* to fight Solaris across the timeline or else they’d be physically unable to kill it.
@@Sarge327 thank you! No matter what, until Sega decides otherwise, they are near equal, outside of whatever gimmick is present in said game. After unleashed and Rush, the debate was Shadow couldn’t boost and had been surpassed, and then a few games later, Shadow is boosting in his boss fight in Generations. I understand people looking for a definitive answer, but just straight up ignoring key details is not going help whatever agenda they are trying to push. But at the same time, Sega not including other playable characters in these games isn’t helping anything either, and Forces kind of labeled every character outside of Sonic as worthless, so I can see where they are coming from
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.because the "boost" from removing the inhibitor rings isn't explained. In Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow is stated to be Sonic's literal equal in strength and power and speed. Meaning only plot armor matters. A literal "equal" has no advantage other than writer preference
Shadow has a Sonic Frontiers level in Shadow Generations and he went through it easily. No difficulty is implied that Shadow had any more difficulty than Sonic
*Sonic vs Shadow isn't a stomp because writers wont make it a stomp.* Even after Frontiers, Sonic vs Shadow is always going to be depicted as a tough matchup
They have their own relationship, like Goku has with Vegeta. At certain points in time, they are comparable, but at the critical moment, Sonic is stronger That's why the guidebooks for STH06 said that only Sonic was capable of defeating Solaris. The fact that he took Silver and Shadow with him was just a flex on his part
All of yall are delusional. Shadow is blatantly stronger than Sonic. How can you possibly think differently? Just because of main character bias, seriously? The one thing you're suppose to obviously ignore just like plot-armor. Shadow can match Sonic's speed and has his whole array of chaos powers on top of that. Tf is wrong with yall? Shadow is literally designed after Super Sonic but with inhibitor rings that suppress some (but not) all of his power. And that's the other thing, those limitor rings... Shadow's full power is constantly suppressed (yet still managing to be stronger than Sonic), let alone what Shadow is capable of with them off. It's no contest. This aint no Goku or Naruto situation. People generalize comparisons with series like that way too much. In terms of competence and power, Shadow is not the Vegeta of the series. A better comparison no-one really uses is they're more like Mewtwo and Mew, though there is surely a better example out there that illustrates the main character is strong while his rival edges him out (Pokemon hasn't quite done that for the Mew pair). Anyways, basically every other media outside the game series properly shows the difference between Sonic and Shadow, like Boom tv show and Prime tv show (both of which Shadow didn't even use all his powers in. Shadow outclassed Sonic in both those shows with purely hand to hand combat, which is also accurate to the canon characterization because Shadow has always had an inherent advantage in close combat).
@@windy3935 stop crying. All of Shadow's canon fights were lost. That said, the STH06 guidebooks clearly stated that only Sonic was capable of defeating Solaris. That's why everyone tried to resurrect him, and that's why Sonic was the one who recreated the multiverse with Alice and Solaris' true form Shadow is so “strong” that there was no way he could prevent Infinite and Eggman from taking over the planet. Shadow is so “strong” that he lost to Knuckles in Sonic Rivals. Shadow is so “strong” that after using Chaos Control in Super Form, he simply passes out, while Sonic feels nothing. I also haven't seen in canon that Shadow was able to use Chaos Control with a fake Chaos Emerald - the only thing I've seen is an overhyped restrictor removal, which didn't make Shadow much stronger
@@windy3935 > Shadow has always had an inherent advantage in close combat Where was that in the canon? > Boom It's very representative of Boom's use of the canon universe, considering they're not even similar. Question - where in there was Shadow stronger than Sonic? Where is the evidence that in Boom Shadow can take off his rings and become stronger like in the game series? Or did you just make that up? > Prime Is this the same Prime where Shadow took most of his punches to the back? How about we look at fights where BOTH characters are set up to fight? I'll even ignore that they had parity in Prime > Shadow can match Sonic's speed It's long been obvious that they have a speed gap - all canon sources say so. The only one who keeps saying Sonic and Shadow are equal (which doesn't work in your favor either, given how you talk about Shadow's superiority over Sonic) is Omega in SxS Generation. Except Omega has already said before in canon that he's unable to analyze and evaluate Sonic's speed, and yes Sonic in Generations != Sonic now. Infinite literally said Sonic got stronger without doing anything. Where did Shadow show that kind of thing? > whole array of chaos powers on top of that Half of which are useless against Sonic, and the other half don't work without the chaos emerald. LMAO No one's arguing that Shadow has a greater arsenal of abilities (if we're talking about Sonic outside of Frontiers, of course) - it's a question of quality. Sonic is nature incarnate, and that's why he's only as strong as his opponent. This is why Sonic in Generations is able to defeat Perfect Chaos in base, and why Shadow had to sell his soul to a chthonic Venom and grow cringe wings to defeat Metal Overlord. Sonic is a Nietzschean ubermensch and child who is authentically unchained. Shadow is a sentimental sociophobe who lives in the past
2:34 Putting on my nerd glasses for this. Actually, Sonic didn't use the Master Emerald to beat Emerl. Tails used the Master Emerald to send Sonic to the Death Egg where Emerl was being held.
@@shadowkirby7210The narrative said Sonic had to survive against Ultimate Emerl, and Sonic was more winded from the end of the fight than Emerl was. Sonic was also teleported to Emerl's location in the finale *WITH* the Master Emerald before Emerl broke it in his outrage.
From an unbiased viewpoint, Sega has already addressed that Sonic and Shadow are equals in speed and strength. It’s also mentioned again in Sonic X Shadow generations. Regardless of how people feel we can’t argue with the creators. It is what it is. Just to shed a little light, for those that aren’t aware, Sonic “winning” against Shadow in SA2 is unfortunately also speculation and misinformation. Especially considering, you have to play both stories, to get the true ending, which are not only contradictory to the true story, but also is completely different, and shows either side fully, stopping the other side in their tracks from “winning”. In the dark ending, you must pick Shadow to defeat Sonic; afterwards, there’s a cutscene showing Eggman blowing up a huge chunk of the earth which could, but never happens. In the hero ending, it’s assumed that Sonic made it to the control room to put the fake emerald where all the emeralds charge the cannon up at, because it was mentioned that was his plan. However, for one’s paying attention the true story, lets the audience know that the Hero’s ending didn’t happen either. It explained that all 7 real chaos emeralds were in the cannon already, and it’s specifically and directly stated that the only reason for the cannon not firing, was because of Gerald Robotnik, who set up the Ark to automatically crash into the earth as revenge. Anything else aside from that, is simply speculation unless Sega directly says so. Most likely both Hero & Dark endings are simply to show what could have easily happened but didn’t. Overall, many miss the point of what Sega said about these two. Hope this helps clear up some things for someone out there at least, take care you all👍
We can argue with that, since Sonic gets to where he intends to go in the final story, regardless of if the seven emeralds are already inside the cannon, he made it to his objective. While the fight in SA2 without them saying so is likely a draw, Sonic is more powerful as a character in general, another point to him in the last story when he can maintain his super form, on top of Shadow admitting Sonic might actually be the ultimate lifeform. I didn't even go into how Shadow is based off of Super Sonic from the mural on Angel Island, or how Sonic canonically beats Shadow in Sonic x Shadow Gens. Sonic comes out on top, even if it's plot armor for being the main character.
@@ExtraordinaryFatebuddy Shadow is the ultimate lifeform the writers even laught about this in a interview of SA2 also Sonic's can't be a win because Shadow told to Rouge that he wanted to fight Sonic in equals terms and Shadow let Sonic take a fake Emerald so Shadow let him win in conclusion Sonic's can't be a win also Omega Stated that Sonic and Shadow are equals and this was also confirmed by the writers
The Characters don't really get "amped" when they have a chaos emerald though, they only really get amped if they actually use Chaos Powers during the fight, if they don't just having the emerald doesn't really make them stronger.
@@TheGamingRift11Chaos is also a massive exception due to its nature as a horrifically mutated Chao. The only other characters who get passively stronger just by having a Chaos Emerald are the Deadly Six, otherwise no one really gets passive power ups from the Emeralds.
Dont forget, Shadow has only tock of his enhibitor rings one time against Mephiles who oneshoted Sonic without using a chaos emerald while he used 2 Chaos emeralds to make his clones and Shadow did easily beat them with taking only tho of his enhibitor rings of (he has 4)
Idk why people use Mephiles killing Sonic as an argument when Mephiles snuck up on and stabbed him when Sonic's guard was down. Mephiles didn't actually try to fight Sonic in an actual fight. Besides, Sonic has beaten a character who had all 7 Emeralds (Ultimate Emerl).
Fun fact: Sonic technically really is the Ultimate lifeform! Well sorta. Its implied that shadow was based on the mural of super sonic in the s3ak hidden palace (that would also explain why his quills are more similar to the super sonic quills than the normal quills). So while shadow is the true ultimate lifeform he was based on sonic which sorta confirms sonic is also in a way the ultimate lifeform. Also just in case i am writing this after watching half of the video so dont judge me if this is mentioned.
this is a theory still not confirmed its a huge popular fan theory that makes a lot of sense but Sega did not confirm this. the main dead give away was when they went super they look completely alike in sa2 and sa1 super sonic even gba versions.
@@DragonLord555 you good bro. its possible one day they can confirm this. i mean we still dont know why he was created to be a hedgehog one of these years we might get the answer but to be honest most of shadow life is already answered. not sure how they gonna just throw in that fact unless they make another shadow game giving us (oh here is a fun fact shadow meant to be a super hedgehog) lol
To be fair, Shadow's Doom Abilities are both over and undervalued if that makes sense. Keep in mind, Shadow JUST discovered he has these abilities. I can see him eventually either evolving his existing ones or getting brand new ones entirely. So they are best placed in a separate "only time will tell" category.
Shadow lost his Doom powers at the end of the game. He's not evolving them. They were a one and done deal, just like every time Sonic gets a power up in one of his games.
Sonic Prime is canon and takes place after Advance 3. Shadow beats Sonic there. Sonic was motivated because Shadow said he was gonna kill alt universe Tails. Shadow also does way better against Grim Metal Sonic and actually defeats it. Sonic Adventure 2 hero ending isn’t canon because Eggman has all of the chaos emeralds in the TRUE ending and the eclipse canon isn’t destroyed. According to Sonic X, Shadow did lose to Sonic but it’s implied that he was only trying to delay Sonic until his real plan came to fruition. Saying he’d kill him was likely just cocky banter cause everyone on Earth was gonna die regardless. In Sonic Heroes, Team Dark actually got to cryptic castle first and Team Sonic followed them. So that could imply that either Team Sonic lost or Team Dark retreated. But I agree with your analysis on Heroes. I agree on Battle as well. In the OG Sonic Gens, the Encyclospeedia states that Sonic and Shadow couldn’t damage each other workout the energy Orbs. So in base they’re actually equal. This was retconned in Shadow Gens but even Rogue reacts with surprise “Sonic defeating you?! What happened?” She’s not use to seeing Shadow outright lose to Sonic because their fights most likely end in stalemates a lot! Also having a Chaos Emerald isn’t an automatic amp. If it was Sonic had 2 chaos emeralds by the time he fought Shadow in Gens. Sonic had 2 from Eggman and Metal Sonic. Simply holding the chaos emeralds isn’t an amp unless you’re specifically drawing from their power. Also IDW is canon and Shadow was able to knock Super Neo Metal out of his Super Form while he bullied Sonic and Knuckles. Also Shadow was able to solo an entire army of Shadow androids that were bullying Sonic and his friends. Shadow was amped by fake Chaos energy but Sonic has that ability as well Sonic and Shadow are always stated to be equals or relative. I believe they can beat each other depending on the circumstances. That’s why games usually have Sonic (us) win but nearly every show (Canon or non canon) portrays Shadow as better
Prime and IDW has too many contradictions to the Canon Shadow didn't beat him in Prime he was trying to take his gear Hero ending is canon...the eclipse Cannon was damaged and Eggman didn't know Sonic was alive He didn't lost in Sonic Heroes it was a tie neither won the fight. Shadow caught Neo Metal off guard. He would have gotten the Same beating Sonic and Knuckles have gotten
Doom wings isn't just him having wings. It's his new super form. He is invincible when using it just like in super form. theoretically if super was stacked on Doom wings it may be similar to cyber super sonic in power. (Key word theoretically.)
His invincibility comes from him having a chaos emerald in combination with his Doom Wings though (hence the yellow glow). That's why he needed it, and had Rouge slip him the fake one.
its not a super form, its just a powerful transformation thanks to his doom powers + a chaos emerald the invincibility feels like its just an excuse to not make it completely overpowered while playing with the wings, same with the rings being drained lol
5:17 Sonic needed a power-boost to beat Shadow in the Sonic Gen, but in Shadow Gen we can see that's not what happen at all, so it doesn't really count
@@LittleMac5 Yeah but like I said, that fight doesn't really count now because of Shadow Gen, that shows what actually happen. And both of them didn't use any power-ups in the fight, Shadow just didn't want to fight at that moment since he has more important things to take care of.
@@NewVision_true I wouldn't say he didn't want to fight since it was obvious he wanted to beat Sonic but chose not to use the doom spear, or chaos control bc he had multiple amps in the game. He wanted hold back and beat Sonic using his base powers which I think included chaos spear and teleportation since he fought Sonic using those said abilities before in base with no amps. He wanted to fight Sonic on an even playing field not one where he has an advantage with the power of a chaos emerald and a fake one, and his doom powers.
Sonic vs Shadow is basically Goku vs Vegeta where Goku is clearly on top but because of semantic arguments and the fact Vegeta has never directly lost to Goku people think Vegeta is stronger. The same is true for this matchup
It's weird how Vegeta is weaker than Goku but when it comes to fighting each other writers feel the need to make Vegeta win. It's starting to feel like Vegeta fan service. "Oh so sorry that Vegeta can't beat/finish off a main villain, but we'll at least make it so that he beats Goku in a 1v1".
Idk, man. The guy who was literally trained by God's since he was a kid, I would think he would be stronger than Vegeta , who prior to super had 0 formal training and was keeping up with just strength training and getting mind controlled. You should give Vegeta his props. Dude kept up with Goku with nothing but his pride and will. Honestly, I think Vegeta has won every one of their encounters. Saiyan Saga (until he got jumped) . Buu Saga ( yes goku had ssj3 but couldn't use it, doesn't excuse him losing to vegeta) and super hero movie ( which is cannon and was a fight in base , so vegeta has a stronger base)
Sega said if shadow's popularity rises they will do more games with him. Maybe from sonic frontiers 2 we'll get multiple playable characters who knows...
I think that’s dumb since wasn’t Shadow always a fan favourite? With some people even preferring him to Sonic? Sonic team really needs to get with the times
It's Sega's problem overall. Majima is the most popular character in Yakuza series, but they still don't understand why, and only now doing 2 game for him where he is playable. Sega surely have a communication issues
@@TheGamingRift11 Right. This whole "year of Shadow" and his "revival" has always been weird to me, since he appeared in almost every Sonic game since his debut. And even games he didn't appear in, like Frontiers, had his VA act as Shadow in the Twitter promotions for that game's release. He never went anywhere, unlike many of the side characters who were actually side lined, on top of being ruined.
sonic surviving the titans is impressive. in the flash backs we see that these weren't made with metal, they were generated completely by the power of the chaos emeralds.
I’m not gonna watch this video so don’t feel the need to read this comment but there’s really no point to arguing about this, they are equals, and are quite clearly equals, sometimes sonic will win sometimes shadow will win. Sonic says in shadow generations he won “this one” which means he wins and loses all the time otherwise he would say I won again. And anyone who thinks shadow is holding back. In sa2 it was a fight to the death and sonic won, why would shadow be holding back then?
On the first point: That actually wasn't Shadow's full objective as Shadow was knowledgeable OF Gerald's initiation of the ARK's direct crash course to Earth. It was never stated he wasn't aware and didn't seem surprised, so he really could have been trying to stall Sonic out for it to happen. Even if Sonic DID win, this doesn't mean that Sonic wasn't trying in the fight. Sure Sonic was in a rush to blow up the Eclipse Cannon before it would go off, but surely that's more reason enough to try that much harder to stop it before it does anything. So, I do believe that it was a rather even fight, especially since it's been stated that they were rather equal at the time. A fight is dictated by more than just power, but also circumstance. Also, the last part about Shadow saying Sonic is the Ultimate Lifeform may more just be an act of passing down the mantle as earlier in the Finalhazard fight, it was stated that Shadow was getting tired (this is his first usage of the Super form) and that may have known he might not make it. Either that or it could just be him admitting that in terms of heroism and mentality, that he is more deserving of the title. Especially since they are rather equal in power overall. On the second point: Whether the other endings of Shadow 05 are non-canon or not, I don't think it matters all TOO much. I think the other endings are valid in terms of the possibility of these things happening. Such as Shadow being able to take on Sonic and Diablon at the same time. I believe that it shows the potential of power Shadow is very well capable of reaching. On the third point: The "amping" doesn't really happen. Just because the emerald is within possession, it doesn't automatically mean that one is actually using the power to empower themselves. The only instance of this would be when they actively USE the emeralds' power with Chaos Control. Unless directly stated or shown, I wouldn't say that anyone is amped with the emeralds. Thus, really the fight was still balanced even without the amping. I don't think Shadow lags behind here in terms of power in regards to Sonic either. Shadow did have to clear an entire level, to get to Eggman to interrogate him, rush over to save Sonic (who was definitely struggling against Silver even after knowing his moves and SHOULD have been fast enough to expect his future attacks), and fold the white boy. Not exactly indicative of Shadow on the scaling chain. On the fourth point: Lancelot, if he is anything like Shadow on their first meetup, most likely underestimated a "knave" like Sonic, but the rematch is fair. However, unsure about it's canonicity considering it IS post-game material. Not saying it isn't canon, but I'm just not sure. It's like replaying a boss on hard-mode, though who really knows. This one is fine. On the fifth point: Even taking Shadow Generations into account, neither Sonic or Shadow could really do any significant damage to one another unless they used the Energy Core against one another. Either way, they were equally matched and had to amp themselves to do anything significant. However, still agree with the equalization here. On the sixth point: This isn't implying that Shadow couldn't replicate the same feat. Just because Sonic was shown to kind of match and struggle with the clones, it doesn't mean that Shadow isn't able to do it as well. Nothing really implying power superiority in the intro sequence. He doesn't really tag Infinite either in it since Infinite was just outright finessing him. In Episode Shadow, the example you used isn't exactly a fair comparison since this is Shadow before the 6-months and this was from a sneak attack planned by Infinite and the Sonic you used was after the six months where he's obviously grown in power. Sonic also visibly was trying to protect himself against an attack from the Clone Shadow (which means he recognizes Shadow's power and sees him as a threat if he went against him), to which Shadow bodies immediately. I think there's not too much to conclude who is superior aside from the bad writing of Forces basically rendering any other character that WOULD be relative or equal to Sonic useless. Could say that Sonic might be stronger, but Forces writing is a headache so it just baffles me. Big unsure here. Fight breakdown evaluation: Mephiles analysis is meh. It doesn't translate since Shadow needed Chaos Boost to do significant damage to Mephiles since Mephiles in his monster form was pretty much invulnerable until Chaos Boost is used. Also, it's obvious that these bosses aren't just past version, but versions of them that seem to be stronger as they have new capabilities they didn't originally have before (such as the limbs mutation that Biolizard has). For the Doom powers, Doom Surf is actually more useful than Sonic's water running thing in concept. There's a difference between just running across water and using something like a boat or a more aquatically-tuned vehicle to traverse. It is more practical and allows more advanced maneuvers in water. Logically, it makes sense. It isn't an anti-feat for Shadow either as in the Shadow Rival Battle in Gens, Shadow moves at the same speed as Sonic so it isn't like Shadow is slower or can't do what Sonic does. For Doom Wing, that isn't really an argument. Just because Sonic has fought flying enemies before, it doesn't give him any inherent advantage. Shadow has ALSO fought airborne enemies before. It's the fact that Doom Wing is specifically rather powerful it seems and it ALSO gives Shadow invulnerability in-game, so it is a direct boost in durability and seemingly power due to the final fight. I will say one thing that in Frontiers, there IS idle dialogue that mentions that Sonic "wouldn't mind Shadow's help". This could imply that Sonic sees Shadow as someone that could actually really help right now. Whether it implies power equality, unsure. Though if even Sonic is giving props to Shadow, I think that may make them comparable. Conclusion: This analysis has some issues in my opinion, but it isn't a horrible analysis. It wasn't a toxic exchange where disrespect was thrown towards a character's way nor was it toxic and I do appreciate that from a powerscaling video. Especially one that involves both Sonic and Shadow (as those debates can get rather heated). I like to keep civility, really. However I will say one thing and that the Sonic Verse has never truly had power creep. The world's powerscaling has never been a focus in-verse and most of the time, the characters are comparable to one another and capable of putting up a good fight against one another or threats similar to themselves. It may have some shonen instances, but the Sonic Verse somewhat scales itself and/or leaves the scaling to the side for the sake of gameplay and/or story. Which brings me to my next point, I think taking the context of certain story beats, the intentions and knowledge of characters, and the events that transpire as a result of them into account does help with powescaling in a roundabout way or provides more context to certain feats as the "superior fighter" often doesn't just come down to a winner or loser, but the lead-up. Sorry if this is long, I just thought I should passionately give my review/criticism on this matter as I am rather knowledgeable on many facets of Sonic and Shadow stuff.
Yeah I do agree with some parts but also if Shadow knew about the Eclipse cannons true function, why would he even try stop Sonic from blowing it up? He’d be aware sonic is wasting his time as blowing up the weapon doesn’t prevent the threat that Gerald created
@@TheGamingRift11That is up to interpretation as you can clearly see Shadow is chilling on the ARK after the fight. He isn’t trying to stop Sonic or anything.
@@TheGamingRift11 Again, fighting Sonic means stalling him. Which means less chance of them figuring out anything about Gerald's true intentions of "even if x happens, Gerald had this as a true plan". He would be FULLY aware that Sonic is wasting time and that's the point. Gerald had a real Doomsday Plan ready in case. Shadow DID have his memories specifically altered by Gerald himself and Shadow actually outsmarted Eggman with the plan Gerald had that Shadow followed through on.
SEGA never said it was a tie. Shadow outright said he wanted to end sonic. Sonic is still aIive so if shadow win, why is sonic still here? Make it make sense.
The idea of characters "getting stronger" isn't a good argument. Classic Sonic beat Chaos 0 in one hit, scaling him above Adventure Sonic. These things don't make sense. Characters are only scaled up to the game they are in. Its why Classic Sonic can perform feats above his Sonic Adventure counterpart if thats game the game environment. Put Shadow in Sonic Frontiers and he will sweep it as easily as in Shadow Generations. Because Shadow in Chaos Island scaled up to that Cyber location simply by being in the game
Because it’s basically stated it’s different classic sonic from the one from previous games since that classic sonic was from generations So basically even tho it’s applied that classic sonic and modern sonic are the same generations and forces basically made changed classic sonic timeline so meaning that version of classic sonic is lot different from the one that became modern sonic The chaos island wouldn’t really scale shadow in any way as that’s like saying time eater would solo Solaris by this logic and cyber locations wouldn’t scale shadow either to be honest
funny since the time eater can possibly beat solaris, think about it, sonic was far stronger than his 06 counterpart in gens, to the point where his base form seemingly surpasses his super form from the older games due to effortlessly beating perfect chaos, including the fact that the time eater had the abilityto bring back worlds and beings that were already erased before such as mephiles and that burning city thing from silver's future, also, it's not like it's gonna be that surprisingwhen you remember that even infinite from sonic forces scales above solaris simply because sega or sonic team (don't exactly remember who) has said that infinite is the strongest enemy sonic has ever had which most likely includes solaris, let alone the titans and the end @@hackerninjaexe5791
Classic Sonic beat a replica of Chaos, not Chaos himself. Despite Shadow saying the replicas being as formidable as the originals, that clearly wasn’t the case when the resistance fought the army of replicas
@@iam4026 they actually were comparable to the real ones, but the difference here is that the replicas are nowhere near as intelligent as any other character, because we can see that the real shadow actually had his own techniques and stuff that could destroy most of the army, unlike the replica shadow who only knew how to attack when we saw him attack sonic, besides, zavok was powerful enough to literally be an actual boss fight
Sonic's got a little something called "accelerated development". Sonic literally gets stronger in each game and his friends (some of them) still being comparable to him is proof that they're also getting stronger.
Sonic does beat shadow several times but its impossible to say whos stronger because shadow has never taken off his inhibitor rings against sonic Every time he fights sonic he isnt at full power, and thanks to generations we now see shadow beat metal overlord by himself, something sonic needed to be super for, along with super tails and super knuckles Sega purposely does this, using shadows inhibitor rings to claim them as equals but never letting us really know whos stronger
To be fair in generations the characters seemed way stronger Yes Shadow beat metal overlord by himself in base form but Sonic was able to beat perfect Chaos in base form when he needed a super form initially so they both have stronger base forms now that can compete against bosses that once required super Sega has made it clear either one or the other could win in a fight depending on the circumstances.
To be fair, I don't think taking off his rings would count as a "fair fight" in Shadow's mind. But then again Shadow Generations, Gerald says that taking off them off in the state Shadow is right now. He might explode.
But taking them off also has a drawback of using too much energy, too quickly, and shadow needing to rest. Edit: It all comes down to if shadow beating sonic within the amount of time he has them off or sonic just dodging and waiting for shadow to use up all his energy and take him out while he recovers. Based on this, it's all benefit vs cost
@@TheGamingRift11 we mean they Always sometimes mc so strong nobody can beat them but that is just few sometimes there are gods or older stronger characters but thats just the story thats why
"the doom powers are severely over hyped" THANK YOU!!! Literally every "advantage" those gooey ability's grant Shadow is something he can already do with his rock skates (fly/water run/squid gimmick) or are just flavored up versions of attacks he can already do (chaos spear and chaos punishment). But even then, they give him no edge over Sonic whatsoever, and to top that he looses them at the end of generations anyway.
The in game mechanics of these new abilities doesn't matter. The abilities are literally to supplant Super Shadow. Black Doom is STILL enhancing Shadow beyond the limits of Sonic in Gens. At the bare minimum. Thats what Shadow tells Rouge. It's clear he knows Sonic in his glory as of Sonic Gens. Isnt close to him. He refuses to attack Sonic. When Sonic angers him. He activate his Doom powers literally takes aim and then relatives he'll severely hurt Sonic if he Doom spears him. And Geraldt says Shadow is already so powerful, if he removed the inhibitors he'd burst. Let's be clear while canonically Shadow has only ever done this once. Sonic X is still a Sega sanctioned show. It's supplementary material no different than the comics. And Shadow can be Super and remove the inhibitor rings. So while it's not canon. It does atleast set a precedent. That the Doom abilities grant an inherent power boost that trumps the Super form. Plus Sonic Prime is supposedly a different dimension canon. Just like Mania. Shadow is legitimately stronger than Sonic there as well. Shadow literally performs feats thats better than beating Sonic. Like taking his gear so fast Sonic doesn't recognize it. And Shadow fights off an army that's trying to kill him. Made up of Sonic and others. Sonic gets whopped badly by 1 metal Sonic. Shadow takes on entire army. This argument is always one of semantics. Sonic is the main character and we're only JUST NOW. Coming out of Sega disrespecting and disregarding the rest of the cast. 2 years ago Amy Tails and Knuckles were playable again since 2006. Shadow was in Forces but he played a role of little significance displaying how Infinite became the host of the Ruby.
@@AMAZIAHyeah but then again also if we were to do a modern fight between Sonic and Shadow at the most recent point in time in the timeline can't use the doom abilities so no matter what they're basically useless in this unless you give Shadow is doom abilities but even then you're going to need to give Sonic something because it's unfair to give a shadow something extra and not give Sonic so for Sonic I just give him his cyberspace abilities
I do love the doom powers, and think they aren’t actually that overhyped, as long as you look at them as a cool new set of abilities, instead of some overpowered ones scalable to super sonic.
Well, Shadow only got time to bully his clone once. We don't really see him do that often. And considering how quickly he knocked out his clone, compared to how much it takes Sonic to do the same to Zavok's clone.
There's just one thing you forgot to mention about shadow, His inhibitors rings. When shadow takes off his inhibitors he gains a tremendous amount of power.
Super Sonic 2 or cyber Sonic can already fight a super shadow without the '-' inhibitor rings, besides, this would be more of a weakness than an advantage,Unlike Sonic, Shadow would have a time limit before his body is destroyed '-'
I dunno you didn't mention that the Doom Wings gives Shadow invulnerability like the Super Forms do. Also I thought Eggman was in possession of the final chaos emerald in SA2 after fighting Tails, so doesn't that mean Shadow fought Sonic with zero emeralds in their last fight in SA2 or am I forgetting something? Also Sonic mission was to destroy the Eclipse cannon by shoving the fake emerald in the Eclipse cannon, thus destroying it yet in Shadow 05 the eclipse cannon is still functional so doesn't that mean Sonic failed thus making it a tie?
of course Sonic will have more feats and more impressive ones, he is the main character. How do you know Frontiers Sonic is stronger? You don't, because Shadow might as well be having his own adventure at the same time and facing a stronger foe than The End and the titans. And as Chaos island appears in Generations, I believe we will have a "Shadow Frontiers" game. Than you can compare them. And in the end all of this is pointless, because Sega states that Sonic and Shadow are equals in the end, even in Speed, because Shadow is an artificial Sonic. They are and always will be equals and rivals.
@@Ed_Games234 so we agree that sonic is more experienced with better feats? And yes we do know Frontiers sonic is stronger through getting stronger over time naturally, something confirmed many times in the recent games If your argument is based off speculation then i wouldn’t bother
Note: this fight comes before frontiers. Not to mention shadow wasn’t able to function his doom powers causing his to be distracted by Sonics leap on him. Other than that shadow also said he would fight sonic on equal terms. Meaning fight him without his dooms power. Another thing is that since he is sonic look-a-like he can also use the same powers he gained. Plus his ring inhibitor’s despite total exhaustion.
Sonic being tired in the in the first interaction is an opinion. Sonic didn’t win the 3rd fight. It was confirmed that it was a draw. Even if Shadow the hedgehog endings weren’t canon. It is still theoretically what would happen had they fought at the time. Shadow was stronger than Sonic here.
It seems like the new Doom Powers are kinda crap except Doom Spears. Like, Shadow should be allowed to use Spin Dash and other factors. It's not like he's slow, or spin dash was an ability locked to Sonic. They could've done other things with the Doom Powers.
Sega & Sonic Team: "Sonic & Shadow are still equals in every regard, and that won't change." Fans: "Sonic vs Shadow isn't even close! Shadow stands no chance!" I find it hilarious how fans keep asking who wins for years & Sega/Sonic Team are like: "they're equals in every way so who knows?"
@@LittleMac5 i mean nobody knows who wins in adventure 2 as there is no clear cut stated winner from Sega just rando fan speculation, generations its shown Shadow was holding back and hesitated which gave Sonic his opening to beat him so that barely counts, meanwhile Shadow stomps Sonic with the gun commander backing him up in his own game, and Silver beats Sonic but Shadow claps Silver in 06, and no the win against Lancelot doesn't count as that is not Shadow. soooooooo do you even play the games i wonder?
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.he had WAY more games than shadow and is the main character so that's not really a valid argument for a fight between two characters described as equals
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.then Vegeta is always stronger than Goku, cause by your logic, he canonically never beat him in a one on one…lol there’s factors to these things
We don't even have an up-to-date Shadow and people are saying Sonic beats him. Can we not make conclusions until they both appear in the same game, fight in said game, and see who wins.
I don’t agree that Shadow didn’t wanna fight Sonic in Gens. If that was the case, he would’ve just given Sonic the fake from the jump. Sonic was out running him and putting that pressure on that made him almost use his Doom powers.
I think he didn't want to fight, he wanted Sonic to leave him alone, as he had better stuff to do. When he realised Sonic wouldn't leave him alone, he ran into the portal. Shadows character isn't to just bend over for Sonic and submit to his will 😂
@ he conveniently had 2 emeralds to hand over. A perfect out to be left alone. He wanted the smoke with Sonic bc he’s competitive. Shadow isn’t the type to waste time with no payoff.
@@Soldat4wSonic would just immediately know something is off because Shadow is never just that willing to give something up. Rouge even said Sonic would notice the difference eventually. Shadow had to play it off like he wanted the emerald and then outsmarted Sonic keeping the real one.
I really liked the abilities sonic had in frontiers especially the energy attacks. I hope they expand on them in the next game. And allow them to be used in boost gameplay if it’s there.
i don't know if it's entirely accurate to only use power scaling to settle in-series debates. canon is also important and as far as the series itself is concerned, sonic and shadow are always portrayed as equal, even if sonic has more feats (naturally, he's the main character with the most screentime)
Not only that but y’all forget that those rings on Shadow’s wists hold back his true power,so every time he fights Sonic he’s not even using half of his full power,and he can use Chaos control without the emeralds as shown in the comics which are canon to the games.Shadow also has doom powers,so even if their base physical stats are equal,shadow can use his full power+doom powers+chaos control he stomps Sonic bad😂😂😂
@TheAlphazoneYT because its inconsistent,why? Infinite Base Frontiers Sonic Struggles with this enemies,he actually has to Fight them,and not just jump on them and be on his merry way Infinite is as,or slightly weaker than this Sonic,so he would struggle just as much Generations Shadow Being able to Defeat them in one-shot,would mean he scales above Both,but that can't happen because Infinite Washes Forces Shadow,Who would be Stronger Than Generations Shadow
@ gabrielmachado1247 When did Infinite wash Forces Shadow? Where’d you pull that from? Because it didn’t happen, thus this inconsistency you refer to is nonexistent.
@TheAlphazoneYT in Episode Shadow,and He Got put into a Bunch of Ilusión levels Its obvious Shadow did not Defeat Infinite,and even if you Argue they did not Fought then,You can see Infinite's Obvious Superiority by the Fact,The resistance Only started winning After Sonic Got out,Eggman Only Started Winning After taking care of Sonic When Infinite talked about Proving his Strength After getting the Phantom Ruby,Shadow started to become much less of a Factor,Infinite,and Much More Eggman,Only Worried about sonic the entire Game To Eggman,the Guy Conquering the World,Shadow was never a factor,To Infinite,he Already proved Shadow was below him,and wanted to Defeat the Big Hog to show he was the Strongest Forces Shadow is Stronger Than Generations Shadow,and in Forces the Game practically shoved into our Throats te Info that Sonic is Him,and that to win we need Sonic,Reason why he also gets saved so early in the story Forces,is a bad story,its badly written,but its canon,and In Forces,which Comes Waaaaay After Generations,and infinite is the strongest Enemy To date,and This is the Sonic,Small Sonic and Avatar show, because everybody else can not do shit
The way I've always understood it was that Shadow has more physical strength, a better connection to chaos energy, greater endurance, and more refined combat techniques than Sonic. With Sonic having higher stamina, equal to or often slightly higher top speed, more experience with the spin dash, and a more adaptable equipment toolkit courtesy of Tails.
@@JayRedGear No absolutly not! Mephiles oneshoted Sonic without using any chaos emeralds while Shadow easily destroyed Mephiles who used 2 chaos emeralds to make his clones
Haven't watched the video yet, but off the top of my head, I'd say Sonic. He isn't relient on the air-shoes for speed, which takes Chaos energy, so Sonic is a bit more "efficent" in a fight, he has higher a durability feet, with the orbital drop where Shadow is put out of commission for a time, while Sonic walks both his orbital drops off, the second time after suffering form cyber corruption for an unknown amount of time and definitely not being at his best. Shadow is certainly more powerful in terms of physical strength and chaos energy projection, but he kind of needs that make up for the durability difference. While Shadow certainly has more combat training, Sonic is just way more experienced at fighting than Shadow, like I think Shadow at most has at least half the combat experience Sonic has. This is all at base, and I'm not even getting into the Super Forms, which would equal most of their stats. Even then, I'd say Sonic since he again just has way more experience, especially with his Super Form, and he can obivously can do more with it than Shadow can at the moment.
You know I'm curious this matchup has been so contentious for so long but after SxSG...I honestly want to know how you feel about Infinite vs Mephiles with all biases aside as quite frankly Mephiles suffers from severe power creep thanks to this game
Both versions of Gens are so shameless when it comes to powercreep. It's probably my least favorite aspect about them. What's the point in having these bosses come back for a hype moment if it's just to highlight how much stronger the protagonist have gotten? Not that it really matter in the case of Mephiles, because Shadow needed his Doom Powers to effectively counter his attacks, and those were external, temporary boost. Base Shadow without the Doom Powers (who lost to Mephiles in 06 and had to be bailed out by Omega), would probably have a significantly harder time (especially since the dialogue suggest Mephiles was toying with him until he realizes he could actually lose toward the end).
I mean generations still comes before forces where the characters scale higher and the infinite statement by sega still exists so i dont think the outcome changes.
I like to think they are both equal and Sonic Team does a great job at implying that because every time one loses to the other the explanation as to why it happened has never been "One is more powerful than the other"
I'm not gonna bother trying to debate this as its gone on for so long that its just annoying now but I will say that the two are equally matched. Sonic is faster but Shadow is fast enough to not get blitzed, Shadow is stronger but sonic is strong enough to match him.
You forgot Doom Wing was also entirely invulnerable to damage though when you brought it up. And if your using 06 then you also need to remember he said his Chaos Control is absolute in 06, and the time stopping power can't be broken, but then we see in Shadow Generations final fight Doom Wing Shadow break a Chaos Control from a much stronger Black Doom, and there were no indications that Shadow used Chaos Control to do it, just that he brute forced it. AND Shadow has inhibitor rings constantly limiting his full power, and we've only seen him remove a max of 2 of them in the games, this being in 06. If Shadow takes off all 4, he'd likely die from it before even reaching his max power, implying Shadow at his 100% is strong enough to kill himself just from the raw power overload alone.
9:18 ngl i find the doom spears pretty weak in gameplay terms its just a better version of chaos spears which the better part is you being able to use 5 they are similar and just stuns the opponent hell it just stuns normal robots for crying out loud
hmm.. i just noticed something, u kind of disrespected doom wings (maybe by accident or forgot how it works), that's basically Shadow's superform, but without emeralds, it even takes ur rings and makes u invincible, so yeah, regular Sonic doesn't stand chance against that
Nice! Although I’d argue the Doom Powers give him a huge amp in power. They practically make him a Super Form, him being invincible, giving off yellow aura, the super electricity, and him even being able to fight Neo Devil Doom who was from the future (Gerald states this apparently), being similar to the Super form. And Sonic implies in Frontiers that Shadow is still relative to him, and as of TailsTube it’s implied they can still bout on equal terms. So I’d say Doom Shadow >>>> Frontiers Sonic
😂 that dosen't mean he is super and the Hedgehog has fought beings that are more dangerous then doom shadow dude like what? And I'm not sure if that's canon also really yellow aura and electricity you do know that wouldn't mean super right and Neo Doom could of been talking about super shadow not just all super form😅
Bro, literally, Doom Spears and Doom Blast are weaker versions of Chaos Spears and Blast. If he didn't win even with the powers of the Emeralds being superior to his Doom powers, why do you think he would overcome him with an inferior power? @@Yes-cj6vr
@ Doom blast isn’t even supposed to be Chaos blast 🤦♂️ also literally every source says Doom spear > Chaos spear, really? Also Shadow literally stated that if he actually fought Sonic, it would’ve been a very unfair fight.
Skill vs experience. Sonic always puts himself out there while shadow for most of his life live peacefully until the raid on the arc and essentially began his quest for revenge in sa2. Also, apparently, generations now takes place after frontier and forces.
@wellingtonafonsodecarvalho9842 I said apparently not that I believe it. Other sonic UA-camrs have made that claim. Honestly, I don't care enough for Sonic Lore. I've only played the games that interest me
L video since we’re comparing two different time periods against each other towards the end instead of just natural stats. If Shadow was in frontiers, then they would just be equal again. If Shadow got his own game past frontiers, he would be “stronger” even though we know the entire cast is getting stronger in the background. These two will always be equal with outside factors determining who wins. Sonic will always have the edge since the series is named after him. Shadow will always be just as strong because he’s the rival and second most popular character. The end
@@daj7237 I compared the strong versions of Sonic and Shadow shown in the games without superforms It’s not the fault of the video that Shadows last canonical appearance was in Forces and Sonics was in Frontiers 🤷♂️
@ but it’s the foolishness of the title of the video itself…”not even close” when they are literally created to always be close and are shown to be close anytime they interact is wild man. You even mention it at the end of the video…
@@TheGamingRift11 Shadow Gens is canon His last appearance was NOT in forces 💀 Also Frontiers Sonic is a victim without the emeralds That's literally the reason why you're spending 80% of the game collecting them to begin with
@@TheGamingRift11its still misleading though? Why even compare 2 people from 2 different times? Who is stronger end of series sasuke or naruto when he first fought haku? Makes no sense If you cant acuratly scale them then dont, dont pretend to have cracked the code if its all misleading at best and flat out wrong at worst. A more usefull video would have been to compare the unique powers they have.
Quick reminder that gerald said that if Shadow where to release his inhibitor rings while the way he was with his doom powers, he would go FUCKING NUCLEAR, which he continues with saying to only remove them unless he ABSOLUTELY needs to, says alot for how terrifying Shadow would be if he truly had nothing left to lose and just removed all of his inhibitor rings and just goes full DBS Broly Mode
Sonic vs Shadow is way too hard than it needs to be. My mindset is either they equally win which is most likely or Sonic wins purely because he has more experience and is faster. Sega keeps saying they’re equal but it just keeps getting debunked over and over and over again.
Yeah, Shadow is gonna need way more adventures and growth in his power if he ever dreams of beating Sonic, and even then Sonic is likely to get far stronger over time so at that point, Shadow, like Metal Sonic, will ultimately be nothing to Sonic power wise.
Yeah, no, shadow wins. *Bruh everyone be talking about shadow needing to use doom surf to go on water and yet sonic couldn't even run on water in frontiers* 💀
Is that a hint of biased opinion I smell? All jokes aside sonic just has way more feats then shadow. Shadow can use all the chaos emeralds he wants but it's no use.
@@lordx8844 Definitely not if we talking frontiers sonic. Any other version of sonic would lose to shadow extreme diff he would have to take off his ring inhibators
@@TanJurine5873 we didn't even see shadow in Frontiers to draw any conclusions on whether or not he had gotten stronger as well. It was stated several times they were equal in every way so that could mean, just like sonic he gets stronger as time passes on.
Gotta correct you on Sonic Battle: Sonic didn't need master emerald to beat the Ultimate Emerl. The original plan was to neutralise the power of chaos emeralds that Emerl was powered on to stop him, but fails since Emerl was able to shatter Master Emerald into the pieces before Sonic could do his plan. This forced Sonic to 1v1 Ultimate Emerl and do enough damage to him before the latter will destroy the Earth in 30 seconds. In less than 30 seconds Sonic was able to defeat something that was considered the strongest weapon to ever exist! Shadow at that time didn't even dared to approach Emerl at that state.
Sonic stomps. Don't let the Shadow glazing from other media fool you, the main game Modern Sonic is a beast. Shadow was created to be the ultimate life form, he was literally built to be the best, and he loses to Sonic. Sonic is the true all natural ultimate life form.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 they're stated as equals ofc in the games there's going to be moments where sonic beats shadow because he's the main character. If we go outside of gameplay instances we are shown they are equally matched like in Sonic Prime which is canon
@@MeepinMehprime contradicts itself with its shit portrayal of sonic. Just cuz sega says its canon, doesnt mean it should be taken seriously considering they play with the canon like its a fucking joke “everything is canon” like come on now.
In the final Sonic vs Shadow fight in SA2, Shadow wasn’t trying to stop Sonic, just delay him until Eggman put the last real emerald in the machine. Shadow knew that the Ark would collide with the Earth and didn’t care if Sonic destroyed the Eclipse Cannon.
Honestly they should be on the same level, make Sonic slighty faster, but Shadow slighty physically stronger It'd make their dynamic interesting & cool
@@LittleMac5 I mean, we haven't seen Shadow after Forces in the canon, but right now based on the last time we've seen Shadow. Then yea Frontiers Sonic beats Forces Shadow
1. More arguments to Sonic's favor: I feel like in SA2 Sonic originally was supposed to be the ultimate life form since everything Shadow did there Sonic did better, he literally can chaos control with a fake emerald and he didn't "die" in the Biolizard fight like Shadow did, I feel like Sonic 06 did retcon that by making Shadow immortal and making Sonic die In ur black night argument u can literally see at the end of the third paragraph in ur screenshot 4:15 that says that Lancelot Shadow can use the chaos control without a chaos emerald, making him even superior to Shadow at the time, he didn't scalate to him, he was actually the better version at the time (I'm sure they made him like that cuz there's no chaos emeralds in the game, but they probably didn't think this through cuz they just made sonic more ridiculously powerful), this implies that Sonic can take a Shadow with a chaos emerald from black night forward with is just ridiculous to think about that his speed can transcend time (I mean we had sonic cd all this time along.. and in Generations his speed restored the stages, and that is just not a gameplay thing since Tails mentions it in a cutscene, now, Shadow does that too but I'm unsure if it's just a gameplay thing or not, if Omega said they are equal in Sonic Gens and if that's truth, that means he's also getting stronger overtime since Black Night, just like Sonic, altho he probably couldn't keep up that it appears 2. Shadow may had one W in Sonic Heroes: Shadow had the green chaos emerald in Sonic Heroes while team Sonic had none, in the aftermatch of their fight, the next team Sonic cutscene is in Hang Castle where Sonic says "Shadow must have gone this way, this sure is the right way" implying he lost sight of team Shadow during the fight, Sonic's team could have been knocked out or Shadow could have used team chaos control to flee, maybe if he was losing idk 👀 (feel free to tell me if u think Shadow would flee from a fight or not, this is the only doubtful situation I can think of) 3. Some arguments in the favor of Shadow: Shadow never took out his inhibitor rings to fight Sonic not even a single time (on screen). So there's that... Plus, the only enemy he did that for was Mephiles in Sonic 06, but in Sonic Gens he didn't even need to do that (cuz of the Doom Powers), so the Doom Powers may actually give the character a boost, just like u get stronger in general by just having the Rinnegan in Naruto (sorry, it was the easiest example I can think of)
(About Lancelot and Shadow, mentioned in 1.) talking about Lancelot again, altho Shadow is probably superior to him nowadays (I mean, we never hear of his universe again, maybe he actually got powerful and is still superior to Shadow, who knows? but talking about the last time we see him on screen), I think is still pretty impressive being able to chaos control without emeralds, it's a feat nor even Shadow or Sonic came close to achieving yet, sure, Shadow can chaos snap, but we know that's not the same thing.
(Part 2 of Shadow and Lancelot) I just did think of this.. I.. wonder if Shadow can do the same thing if he take off the inhibitor rings.. hmmm.. still, Lancelot doesn't need to take them off to do that, so it's still impressive!
Shadow just didn't want to use his doom powers. If he did, he would definitely win against base sonic Edit: Frontiers Sonic should still win against Shadow with his doom powers
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehogI mean he should beat him since we don't even know what current shadow is up to, he's been sideline for a long time. But sonic is the mc so can't really say much
Shadow: I will win on equal terms or not at all. Shadow: also ignoring the fact his skates are the reason they can fight on equal terms in the first place
Because inhibitor rings dont have enough evidence to suggest it would cziose the gap. If sonic no difs shadow, what is the propf inhibitor rings would cIose that gap? Sonic will just beat no inhibitor rings shadow too.
The inhibitor rings would be a death sentence for shadow since whilst yes it gives him a massive boost it also robs him of his immortality since removing the rings for too long is one of the few things that will kill him Also he doesn’t have that great feats with the rings removed anyways
@@LittleMac5 Gerald stated that in regards to how Shadow was at that point. With all the doom powers he had on top of the power he already had? Yeah, of course he'd blow up. Not to say a similar thing wouldn't eventually happen normally, but it would probably be almost immediate with Doom Shadow.
False that is indeed the current shadow SA2 shadow didn't have the boost by that logic modern sonic would be equal to sa2 shadow which we all know is false
most things in this video seems accurate but im sorry, sonic ''holding his own'' against the forces villains is hilarious. the guy got rekt. owned. molly whopped. bullied even. 6 months later after his supposed uncle iroh training arc in prison every enemy he did fight from that og group required a whole boss fight while shadow needed one kick to get rid of his dupe. one that scaled directly to himself when it was created. it's also odd to just accept that sonic has more experience when shadow gens just proved the guy does his own shit in the background too. that all does become moot by frontiers scaling yes but before that it seemed a bit too heavy on the shadow downplay
@@LittleMac5 their first fight infinite treated sonic like a ragdoll, the second fight he beat him in a boss fight only for infinite to go ultra shaggy with the ''that wasn't even 0.001% of my power'' and no diff him in the cutscene afterwards, and finally they'd have all been turned to dust if the rookie didn't happen to have a phantom ruby prototype on him and infinite in his infinite wisdom didn't decide to throw a second sun. also when was shadow afraid of infinite? this isn't a denial i haven't played forces in ages so i don't recall that
@@bluephoenix_z3364 is that the cutscene where shadow says "as it stands there's no way we can win this?" And sonic going "of course we can! We just haven't figured that part out yet?" If it is, that is not fear, that is Shadow being practical and Sonic being optimistic, a rare true to their character interaction for Forces.
Sonic prior to the time skip did briefly hold his own in a 1v5 - with one of those fighters being infinite himself Obviously sonic stood no chance of being victorious but it’s still impressive to mention regardless
@@LittleMac5 i ain't sayin' sonic isn't impressive or trying to downplay the dude, because in that six months he obviously did get stronger which infinite obviously did notice. that increase in strength still amounted to nothing in that fight tho. as for shadow he was working with Rouge during that game to find the source of Infinite's power, that's how they learned about it in the first place. sonic was fighting and losing but still getting stronger while shadow was being tactical which both contributed to the victory at the end of the game
The real pain in the ass thing about this debate is that not only does Shadow have multiple Chaos powers but also that he is limited by his Inhibitor Rings to keep him from tiring himself out. The fact that he’s being held back is an argument people would bring up but it’s hard to agree with considering there’s clearly more focus on Sonic in the games which just adds more fuel to the fire in this debate as while we know Shadow is powerful, it’s hard to reach a definitive answer when we’ve see Sonic pull crazy stuff like outrunning a growing black hole for around 30 seconds while the games haven’t shown Shadow pulling off anything on that level. It’s basically a debate on what you know of one character vs speculations on another. I honestly don’t see us ever getting a definitive answer, which is just how Sega roles with the Sonic series. I mean, we’ll all be dead before they even give us an actual origin to what the heck the Chaos Emeralds are, so I honestly find the true answer to this debate as mute. Doesn’t mean it isn’t fun to come back to ever now and again.
the fact that THE defining game for one of the two characters in the TITLE of the video only gets less than 20 seconds of screen time shows me just how biased this video was before you even started working on it
3:35 I don't think the Emeralds work like that, passively amping characters just by them being in their possession. And there's certainly no indication that Silver or Shadow were powered up. It just gives them access to Chaos abilities provided the user knows how to use them.
In my vision and opinion, Shadow wins this fight, he is the Ultimate Lifeform after all. Shadow has the chaos powers and is physically stronger than Sonic, the only thing Shadow doesn't have is the super speed that Sonic has. Sonic is stronger with his speed, Shadow is just stronger and can use his chaos powers such as chaos control that requires a chaos emerald, chaos snap ( short teleportation ) for agility and combat, and other chaos powers. Well, just by watching Shadow fight against the black arms in Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow has combat experience, even Maria asks Shadow when did he learn to fight the way he did. Although Sonic has experience in combat, so does Shadow. I know that in SA2 Shadow and Sonic get exhausted fighting each other and Shadow probbably have never found a chalenge before, but if Shadow had the intention to kill Sonic, he would kill him, but he didn't wanted to do that because of the way he is, regardless his veangeful and hatred feeling for Maria's death, and his mind being manipulated by Gerald, Shadow has a pure heart, he saved Rouge when he could take those chaos emeralds and leave without her. Shadow is soft, kind. To be honest, Shadow only lost to Sonic in Sonic X Shadow Generations because he let him win, It would be too unfair for Shadow to use those doom chaos powers, although it would hurt Sonic a lot more. Also, Shadow tricking Sonic with the fake emerald was a smart move to acomplish his plans without interruptions. I'd say Shadow got a lot stronger over the time just like Sonic. In my vision, Shadow is superior than Sonic, in terms of strenght and power, but not faster than Sonic. Well, this is my opinion and I know I will never change this.
Bruh, Sonic has done some absurd things in Frontiers, and if Shadow can still beat him, it will be much more for Sega.Wanting to match the characters rather than the power of shadow itself. What do Shadow fans call this? Oh yeah, plot armor.
Shadow I think is smarter than Sonic but when it comes to raw power or speed Sonic has him beat, tricking Sonic with a fake emerald is hella funny to think upon.
Here’s one weird thing about comparing Doom Morph to Sonic already being able to run on water. The fight is between Frontiers Sonic and Generations Shadow. Frontiers Sonic isn’t never ran on water. If he was, we would’ve been able to do so and it likely would’ve been really helpful tbh. But he sinks. It’s also pretty clear that the cyber abilities are stronger because they literally are better oriented towards combat, while Shadow’s powers give him a better edge on traversal. He literally becomes better capable of traversing the land, sea and sky with Morph, Surf and Wings and accesses areas otherwise impossible with Spear and Blast. Ironically, Shadow probably would’ve prospered a lot more than Sonic in exploring the open zones of the Starfall Islands (if he at least had the cyloop of course to access puzzles). While Sonic’s cyber powers, besides the cyloop never gave him access to more areas, it was only his standard hedgehog powers he relied on for traversal. Also I wanna point out that the thing you said about Silver getting amped by the blue chaos emerald during his second encounter with Sonic. He’s not. Neither the gameplay nor the story support that. Until they cast chaos control or collect them all to achieve their super form, all they’re holding are glowing rocks.
You nailed it on the head that Sonic's cyber powers just far outstrip anything Shadow has. Neither his natural chaos abilities (which Sonic has always been able to overcome regardless), nor even his best Doom powers come close. Doom spear pales in comparison to Sonic's projectile attacks. Doom blast looks pitiful compared to some of the rush attacks Frontier Sonic can do once he starts going all out, with Sonic being so fast that he can leave dozens of after images at once while attacking, which can even deal physical blows of their own. Sonic's cyloop also is pretty much just free eats if he gets it off, with even its weaker variants being able to completely immobilize foes for extended periods of time, and in the case of Super Sonic, can even materialize physical restraints that can completely paralyze the titans. One of the big things that Shadow always had over Sonic is that his chaos powers grant him an insane amount of versatility that allowed him to compete with Sonic even when the stat matchup was relative between them. But now, Sonic has even MORE versatility than he does, when counting the cyber powers, and the disparity in their stats is just crazy. And the cherry on top is that Sonic DOES still have access to chaos powers- at the very least, chaos control, if he really needs it. So Shadow's biggest strength isn't even an advantage if it comes down to it unless he's the only one with an emerald on hand, which is rarely the case. In practice, Shadow activates chaos control, Sonic activates chaos control to match him, then whoops his ass in what is essentially zero time, to an outside observer.
To be fair, the Doom Wings are very much the "equivalent" of an unique Super form for Shadow. By the way, I think for the 2000s Sonic games you should check the Japanese scripts instead of the English ones, considering the JP scripts were written first.
Well if you scale the 2 based on what happens with games, you could compare how they do on chaos island. Sonic gets stronger the more cyber curruption he takes on and depending on if you talk to tails or not he does it 3 times. Sonic has to hit the basic Chaos Island enemies multiply times to beat them, while doom power amped Shadow from generations (if you call it an amp) can casually destroy those enemies in 1 hit. If you wanna use that to up scale Shadow sure, but that's honestly just a game mechanic thing if you ask me. I do 100% believe Sonic in Frontiers is stronger. But just like Shadow, he looses that power as it was only temporary for the story. So in all honestly they are probably gonna be Iimplied equal all the time. To those who says Shadow with the inhibitor rings off would be stronger, he can't take them off as Gerald in generations says that Shadow has gotten so strong that he'd probably explode if he did. Since it's Gerald I'd take his word on this. This is just an opinion on things, but all this says is shadow in generations with doom abilities might've been stronger than Sonic.
I think there's some things you neglect to mention. Shadow has been wearing limiters almost 90% of the series and he's able to keep up with and fight evenly with Sonic. And you speak on Shadow's Doom abilities as if they are completely useless when those are just in-game mechanics. In Generations, Gerald says Shadow is growing stronger with each power he receives which is all part of Black Doom's original design to make him perfect. In Generations, Doom-amp Shadow is shown to defeat enemies that required Sonic and himself to turn Super using the Chaos Emeralds such as Metal Overlord, and he even defeated Neo Black Doom when the preceding form Devil Doom, Shadow needed to go Super to defeat. The same Black Doom who wasn't fully revived yet but was capable of manipulating the white space, the dimension of the Time Eater, and used it to revive dead Super-level foes. And in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic did not get stronger with his Cyber corruption abilities, he only learned new techniques. It isn't until Master King helps him harness the Cyber corruption and it is only shown to boost his power while he's Super Sonic. Otherwise, the Titans moped base Sonic up completely.
The titans are stated to be the most powerful Sonic bosses in the series, which means they scale beyond bosses like Team Eater and Dark Gaia, also Base Modern Sonic was able to easily beat Perfect Chaos in his base which required Super Sonic beforehand. Shadow's doom abilities are kinda useless in this fight as they are mostly meant for him to move around or fight specific enemies, like the doom spear is literally just a chaos spear but you throw out several.
Tbh shadow at his full power would always allow him to contend with sonic except in 1 scenario. Only if he removes his inhibitor rings, which in every fight he has with sonic, he refuses to do. In 06, shadow was able to beat mephiles while he was amped by 2 chaos emeralds by removing his inhibitor rings so his inhibitor rings can give him soo much of a boost in power that it surpasses the power of 2 chaos emeralds. Sonic can't get a boost in power like that. Only in frontiers could sonic actually rival that kind of power only in his super form. Just imagine the power of 2/7ths of a super form. Do a little bit power scaling and you'll see how much it is. Basically it's the like kaioken but with the flaws of SSJ3. Although shadow will lose against SS2 sonic/cyber sonic regardless since super sonic couldn't even damage the end in his super form and had to go all out to defeat the end. Shadow will not be able to replicate that kind of power.
I’m pretty sure Sonic lost his cyber space abilities since he used all his cyber energy to destroy The End as Super Sonic Cyber. I think this matchup could really go either way, depending on the circumstances. (in Shadow’s defense, we’ve never seen him fight sonic without the inhibitor rings.)
The comics makes this even harder. They have a squabble early on and Shadow gets the edge but neither were trying their hardest. They also rarely fight the same opponents. Closest we get is Metal Sonic. Shadow kinda loses because Metal is retreating with Eggman.
Also Shadow not being able to break free in Forces was not due to power but Shadow's mental hang ups. Also Sonic escaping Null space was because he and the avatar worked together. It wasn't Sonic by himself. It's hard to give Sonic any solo wins because after Sonic is freed he and the avatar work togetherness most of the game. Also as it's been established team work and friendship in the Sonic verse amps your power dramatically.
@@Dripichigo-m7j Dr Eggman- What! It’s impossible to escape from the phantom ruby’s null space! Sonic- *Maybe by myself but I had a little help from my friend* . Something you wouldn’t understand since you don’t have any friends. Sonic outright states that he wouldn’t have been able to escape null space by himself. If you still don’t believe me watch the cutscene right after Sonic escapes from Null Space
Why is the null space argument used when the double boost is withe sonic and someone who can't even boost(if it he was with someone like knuckles, I'd understand). I don't think forces should ever be used in powerscaling because it basically made everyone useless and made everyone look weaker than classic sonic. CLASSIC SONIC, sonic at his weakest and somehow weaker than the avatar.
@@_NormalEditor dude that was Was Eggman saying it was impossible sonic Defeated the clones and infinite so Null Space is child's play and the blue boy was escaped a void where space time dosen't even exist also I don't know if the terms you don't have friends was at Me and also the blue boy could of been joking
One thing I'd like to note with Shadow is that in Shadow generations it's said that Doom wing Shadow was so strong that if he removed his wrist rings it would be dangerous and he could explode. It's a bummer because Shadow with Doom wings, Super form, and no wrists rings combined could have been really powerful for Shadow.
I mean,considering the Súper form's Invulnerability,Maybe you could argue In Súper Shadow Could Survive Using his Doom Powers and taking his inhibitors off
@@hackerninjaexe5791 that Happened because It was his first Time Going super,and he got tired,its implied in Shadow the Hedgehog that When he clashed Down on earth he hit the Planet as Súper Shadow,and that is what allowed him to survive,and then a Eggman robot Found him,and Got him into Eggman's bases,then he got Healed,then heroes happened
@ he still technically got tired and damaged during that tho and that the same would have happened to sonic so shadow going super “the first time” wouldn’t matter So basically him going super having doom powers while having his rings removed would just be too much for him to handle regardless
Ehhh, I'm sure Shadow will catch up a couple games from now assuming SEGA decides his popularity is ascendant enough for him to get deuteragonist status back.
Not gonna watch the video yet because I haven't started Shadow Gens yet, but the answer is eternally Shadow. This is one of those ideas that can't even change without overhauling things on a core. Shadow was literally based on Sonic, which means he will AT LEAST by default always match him. Shadow's growth doesn't have a cap either, so going by simple logic and reasoning this means Shadow is and always will be stronger than Sonic. Shadow isn't Vegeta; he can actually do anything his rival can do, plus some. Shadow is legitimately just a suppressed Super Sonic in his base form. Having more screentime and even new feats to go with that does not automatically make a character stronger, it just makes the character have more accomplishments under their name on a quantitative basis. There is nothing saying Shadow can't replicate those feats and even do them better than Sonic. The screentime (fueled by writer bias) argument has never been valid. It only works if the other character is in someway implied in story to be slacking in their off-screen presence.
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Cope harder. Shadow literally never uses his full set of powers, both WITH and WITHOUT the inhibitor rings, what are you talking about. I don't wanna hear Sonic fanboys talk about "nerfs". Shadow isn't like Vegeta. Sharing a single characteristic, which you're wrong about, doesn't make two characters the same. I'll spare using your logic against you.
@@windy3935 lmao you forgot that Inhibitor Rings Will Drain His Energy It’s comparable to Kaioken and Sonic Can Easily Outrun Shadow and Wait for Shadow to get Exhausted So No that’s Ain’t Happening And You even Forgot that Sonic and Shadow Are comparable To Goku and Vegeta So Using that Logic but won’t work on it So Cope About it so nice try and cope all of that
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Stupid of you to assume I would forget that. Literally has no bearing on my point. Shadow is still nerfed and underpowered. Your argument about exhaustion narrowmindedly assumes Shadow can't finish him off in time, which I can directly counter with Shadow could do it. Shadow isn't comparable to Vegeta because of one characteristic. You literally have no argument and just making nonsensical emotional responses. So yes cope harder.
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Dumb of you to assume I would forget that. Literally has no bearing on my point. Shadow is still nerfed and underpowered. Your argument about exhaustion narrowmindedly assumes Shadow can't finish him off in time, which I can directly counter with Shadow could do it. Shadow isn't comparable to Vegeta because of one characteristic. You literally have no argument and just making nonsensical emotional responses. So yes cope harder.
Shadow often questions his own existence, but he probably questions Sonic's existence as well. Shadow was created in a laboratory to be the ultimate life form, he was made from an evil alien's DNA and is basically a living chaos emerald, and then you have Sonic who can do almost everything Shadow can do but a little better and he was born naturally
Sonic is just built different i guess lol
I mean Sonic was prophoced to stop Chaos before he was born and Shadow stated before he lost his memories that Sonic not him might be the ultimate lifeform. You could make an argument that Sonic is the "chosen one " the one who'll save the world.
EXCELLENT THE GAMING RIFT WORK.
sonic was experimented on just like shadow, Gerald = shadow, eggman = sonic
@gooniethekid but that's just a theory, (don't you dare-)
Basically Sonic is Free to play while Shadow is Pay to play.
Perfectly put...
I don’t get it but I don’t get it
GREAT THE GAMING RIFT WHY SONIC VS SHADOW ISN'T CLOSE VIDEO.
The answer to this question is ever-changing due to the nature of writing for popular characters. As of Frontiers, Sonic is the stronger character because he’s had more screentime during games later in the timeline. For all we know the next game could come out and he doesn’t have his cyber powers anymore, and he’ll be completely equal to Shadow. He might even be portrayed as complete equals with Shadow with cyber powers, who knows? The only real satisfying answer we’ll ever get that won’t be outdated after a few years, especially now with the marketing success of the Fearless Year of Shadow, is that they are complete equals *on average.*
What I’m most upset with is the complete copium from each side of the argument whenever this topic is brought up. The amount of people I’ve seen ignore the fact that Shadow let Sonic win so he could trick him with the fake emerald in their efforts to prove Sonic is superior during Generations baffles me. Equally so, the amount of people who completely ignore the multitude of implications that Sonic is definitely stronger than Shadow during Forces is baffling.
My absolute favorite is when people take the dialogue in ‘06 where Shadow says something along the lines of “We’d stand a chance against Solaris… if he were still alive” completely out of context and paint it as if Sonic is so unbelievably stronger than everyone else in the game combined that he alone would allow them to stop Solaris, despite the fact the reason Shadow said this is because he, Silver, and Sonic would all have to go Super *together* to fight Solaris across the timeline or else they’d be physically unable to kill it.
@@Sarge327 thank you! No matter what, until Sega decides otherwise, they are near equal, outside of whatever gimmick is present in said game. After unleashed and Rush, the debate was Shadow couldn’t boost and had been surpassed, and then a few games later, Shadow is boosting in his boss fight in Generations. I understand people looking for a definitive answer, but just straight up ignoring key details is not going help whatever agenda they are trying to push. But at the same time, Sega not including other playable characters in these games isn’t helping anything either, and Forces kind of labeled every character outside of Sonic as worthless, so I can see where they are coming from
Not to mention Shadow always has his limiter rigns on him. He'd hever took them off against Sonic, people seem to forget that.
Shadow doesnt have the feats or scaling to justify that the boost from the rimgs would be enough to win.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.because the "boost" from removing the inhibitor rings isn't explained.
In Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow is stated to be Sonic's literal equal in strength and power and speed. Meaning only plot armor matters. A literal "equal" has no advantage other than writer preference
Shadow has a Sonic Frontiers level in Shadow Generations and he went through it easily. No difficulty is implied that Shadow had any more difficulty than Sonic
Silver wins,
Testicular torscion.. enough said
Sonic speed blitz lil bro before he has time to think of testicular torsion.😂
I mean yeah testicular torsion is a one shot
Sonic’s balls aren’t exposed
@@apexatrovinator7510 Where the fuck are they then wise guy
@@Bendytube72In his gloves.
*Sonic vs Shadow isn't a stomp because writers wont make it a stomp.* Even after Frontiers, Sonic vs Shadow is always going to be depicted as a tough matchup
Sonic edges out on top tho
They have their own relationship, like Goku has with Vegeta. At certain points in time, they are comparable, but at the critical moment, Sonic is stronger
That's why the guidebooks for STH06 said that only Sonic was capable of defeating Solaris. The fact that he took Silver and Shadow with him was just a flex on his part
All of yall are delusional. Shadow is blatantly stronger than Sonic. How can you possibly think differently? Just because of main character bias, seriously? The one thing you're suppose to obviously ignore just like plot-armor. Shadow can match Sonic's speed and has his whole array of chaos powers on top of that. Tf is wrong with yall? Shadow is literally designed after Super Sonic but with inhibitor rings that suppress some (but not) all of his power. And that's the other thing, those limitor rings... Shadow's full power is constantly suppressed (yet still managing to be stronger than Sonic), let alone what Shadow is capable of with them off. It's no contest.
This aint no Goku or Naruto situation. People generalize comparisons with series like that way too much. In terms of competence and power, Shadow is not the Vegeta of the series. A better comparison no-one really uses is they're more like Mewtwo and Mew, though there is surely a better example out there that illustrates the main character is strong while his rival edges him out (Pokemon hasn't quite done that for the Mew pair). Anyways, basically every other media outside the game series properly shows the difference between Sonic and Shadow, like Boom tv show and Prime tv show (both of which Shadow didn't even use all his powers in. Shadow outclassed Sonic in both those shows with purely hand to hand combat, which is also accurate to the canon characterization because Shadow has always had an inherent advantage in close combat).
@@windy3935 stop crying. All of Shadow's canon fights were lost. That said, the STH06 guidebooks clearly stated that only Sonic was capable of defeating Solaris. That's why everyone tried to resurrect him, and that's why Sonic was the one who recreated the multiverse with Alice and Solaris' true form
Shadow is so “strong” that there was no way he could prevent Infinite and Eggman from taking over the planet. Shadow is so “strong” that he lost to Knuckles in Sonic Rivals. Shadow is so “strong” that after using Chaos Control in Super Form, he simply passes out, while Sonic feels nothing. I also haven't seen in canon that Shadow was able to use Chaos Control with a fake Chaos Emerald - the only thing I've seen is an overhyped restrictor removal, which didn't make Shadow much stronger
@@windy3935 > Shadow has always had an inherent advantage in close combat
Where was that in the canon?
> Boom
It's very representative of Boom's use of the canon universe, considering they're not even similar. Question - where in there was Shadow stronger than Sonic? Where is the evidence that in Boom Shadow can take off his rings and become stronger like in the game series? Or did you just make that up?
> Prime
Is this the same Prime where Shadow took most of his punches to the back? How about we look at fights where BOTH characters are set up to fight? I'll even ignore that they had parity in Prime
> Shadow can match Sonic's speed
It's long been obvious that they have a speed gap - all canon sources say so. The only one who keeps saying Sonic and Shadow are equal (which doesn't work in your favor either, given how you talk about Shadow's superiority over Sonic) is Omega in SxS Generation. Except Omega has already said before in canon that he's unable to analyze and evaluate Sonic's speed, and yes Sonic in Generations != Sonic now. Infinite literally said Sonic got stronger without doing anything. Where did Shadow show that kind of thing?
> whole array of chaos powers on top of that
Half of which are useless against Sonic, and the other half don't work without the chaos emerald. LMAO
No one's arguing that Shadow has a greater arsenal of abilities (if we're talking about Sonic outside of Frontiers, of course) - it's a question of quality. Sonic is nature incarnate, and that's why he's only as strong as his opponent. This is why Sonic in Generations is able to defeat Perfect Chaos in base, and why Shadow had to sell his soul to a chthonic Venom and grow cringe wings to defeat Metal Overlord. Sonic is a Nietzschean ubermensch and child who is authentically unchained. Shadow is a sentimental sociophobe who lives in the past
2:34 Putting on my nerd glasses for this.
Actually, Sonic didn't use the Master Emerald to beat Emerl. Tails used the Master Emerald to send Sonic to the Death Egg where Emerl was being held.
Also, Sonic beat Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds.
This. This right here scales Sonic so high it’s crazy.
@@shadowkirby7210The narrative said Sonic had to survive against Ultimate Emerl, and Sonic was more winded from the end of the fight than Emerl was. Sonic was also teleported to Emerl's location in the finale *WITH* the Master Emerald before Emerl broke it in his outrage.
@@yusifudo46yes but dude in the video said “he used it to beat emerl” insinuating he used it mid fight. Just a poor choice of wording nothing more
@@yusifudo46 Which he proceeded to blow his cover and have the master emerald out in the open which chatters it, TO PIECES
From an unbiased viewpoint, Sega has already addressed that Sonic and Shadow are equals in speed and strength. It’s also mentioned again in Sonic X Shadow generations. Regardless of how people feel we can’t argue with the creators. It is what it is.
Just to shed a little light, for those that aren’t aware, Sonic “winning” against Shadow in SA2 is unfortunately also speculation and misinformation. Especially considering, you have to play both stories, to get the true ending, which are not only contradictory to the true story, but also is completely different, and shows either side fully, stopping the other side in their tracks from “winning”. In the dark ending, you must pick Shadow to defeat Sonic; afterwards, there’s a cutscene showing Eggman blowing up a huge chunk of the earth which could, but never happens.
In the hero ending, it’s assumed that Sonic made it to the control room to put the fake emerald where all the emeralds charge the cannon up at, because it was mentioned that was his plan. However, for one’s paying attention the true story, lets the audience know that the Hero’s ending didn’t happen either. It explained that all 7 real chaos emeralds were in the cannon already, and it’s specifically and directly stated that the only reason for the cannon not firing, was because of Gerald Robotnik, who set up the Ark to automatically crash into the earth as revenge. Anything else aside from that, is simply speculation unless Sega directly says so. Most likely both Hero & Dark endings are simply to show what could have easily happened but didn’t. Overall, many miss the point of what Sega said about these two. Hope this helps clear up some things for someone out there at least, take care you all👍
Sonic is faster its even stated in Gen
Sonic was reaching the canon meaning shadow lost
We can argue with that, since Sonic gets to where he intends to go in the final story, regardless of if the seven emeralds are already inside the cannon, he made it to his objective. While the fight in SA2 without them saying so is likely a draw, Sonic is more powerful as a character in general, another point to him in the last story when he can maintain his super form, on top of Shadow admitting Sonic might actually be the ultimate lifeform. I didn't even go into how Shadow is based off of Super Sonic from the mural on Angel Island, or how Sonic canonically beats Shadow in Sonic x Shadow Gens. Sonic comes out on top, even if it's plot armor for being the main character.
@ExtraordinaryFate Sonic has more skill and experience. Plus is faster
@@ExtraordinaryFatebuddy Shadow is the ultimate lifeform the writers even laught about this in a interview of SA2 also Sonic's can't be a win because Shadow told to Rouge that he wanted to fight Sonic in equals terms and Shadow let Sonic take a fake Emerald so Shadow let him win in conclusion Sonic's can't be a win also Omega Stated that Sonic and Shadow are equals and this was also confirmed by the writers
Shadow (Mewtwo): is the ultimate life form with the better abilities.
Sonic (Mew): has plot armour.
Real but mew is technically better so I refuse to say that Sonic is too
The Characters don't really get "amped" when they have a chaos emerald though, they only really get amped if they actually use Chaos Powers during the fight, if they don't just having the emerald doesn't really make them stronger.
@@LittleMac5 they CAN
but just holding an emerald doesnt do that you have to tap into em
Chaos in adventure 1 proves that isn’t the case as he gets stronger the more emeralds are in his possession
@@TheGamingRift11that's the only instance which makes sense considering he comes from the master emerald
It was also stated that he was a guardian of the chaos emeralds
@@TheGamingRift11Chaos is also a massive exception due to its nature as a horrifically mutated Chao.
The only other characters who get passively stronger just by having a Chaos Emerald are the Deadly Six, otherwise no one really gets passive power ups from the Emeralds.
ah yes the battle between equal character vs equal character with plot armor
Dont forget, Shadow has only tock of his enhibitor rings one time against Mephiles who oneshoted Sonic without using a chaos emerald while he used 2 Chaos emeralds to make his clones and Shadow did easily beat them with taking only tho of his enhibitor rings of (he has 4)
Idk why people use Mephiles killing Sonic as an argument when Mephiles snuck up on and stabbed him when Sonic's guard was down.
Mephiles didn't actually try to fight Sonic in an actual fight. Besides, Sonic has beaten a character who had all 7 Emeralds (Ultimate Emerl).
Fun fact: Sonic technically really is the Ultimate lifeform! Well sorta.
Its implied that shadow was based on the mural of super sonic in the s3ak hidden palace (that would also explain why his quills are more similar to the super sonic quills than the normal quills).
So while shadow is the true ultimate lifeform he was based on sonic which sorta confirms sonic is also in a way the ultimate lifeform.
Also just in case i am writing this after watching half of the video so dont judge me if this is mentioned.
this is a theory still not confirmed its a huge popular fan theory that makes a lot of sense but Sega did not confirm this. the main dead give away was when they went super they look completely alike in sa2 and sa1 super sonic even gba versions.
@darkintimebreaker True this was mb and honestly i dont think saga will, ever confirm this but i think its a plausible theory.
@@DragonLord555 you good bro. its possible one day they can confirm this. i mean we still dont know why he was created to be a hedgehog one of these years we might get the answer but to be honest most of shadow life is already answered. not sure how they gonna just throw in that fact unless they make another shadow game giving us (oh here is a fun fact shadow meant to be a super hedgehog) lol
@@darkintimebreaker Cool
Even Shadow himself believes Sonic to be the real Ultimate Lifeform during a dialogue in the Finalhazard fight.
To be fair, Shadow's Doom Abilities are both over and undervalued if that makes sense. Keep in mind, Shadow JUST discovered he has these abilities. I can see him eventually either evolving his existing ones or getting brand new ones entirely.
So they are best placed in a separate "only time will tell" category.
Shadow lost his Doom powers at the end of the game. He's not evolving them. They were a one and done deal, just like every time Sonic gets a power up in one of his games.
Sonic Prime is canon and takes place after Advance 3. Shadow beats Sonic there. Sonic was motivated because Shadow said he was gonna kill alt universe Tails. Shadow also does way better against Grim Metal Sonic and actually defeats it.
Sonic Adventure 2 hero ending isn’t canon because Eggman has all of the chaos emeralds in the TRUE ending and the eclipse canon isn’t destroyed. According to Sonic X, Shadow did lose to Sonic but it’s implied that he was only trying to delay Sonic until his real plan came to fruition. Saying he’d kill him was likely just cocky banter cause everyone on Earth was gonna die regardless.
In Sonic Heroes, Team Dark actually got to cryptic castle first and Team Sonic followed them. So that could imply that either Team Sonic lost or Team Dark retreated. But I agree with your analysis on Heroes. I agree on Battle as well.
In the OG Sonic Gens, the Encyclospeedia states that Sonic and Shadow couldn’t damage each other workout the energy Orbs. So in base they’re actually equal. This was retconned in Shadow Gens but even Rogue reacts with surprise “Sonic defeating you?! What happened?” She’s not use to seeing Shadow outright lose to Sonic because their fights most likely end in stalemates a lot!
Also having a Chaos Emerald isn’t an automatic amp. If it was Sonic had 2 chaos emeralds by the time he fought Shadow in Gens. Sonic had 2 from Eggman and Metal Sonic. Simply holding the chaos emeralds isn’t an amp unless you’re specifically drawing from their power.
Also IDW is canon and Shadow was able to knock Super Neo Metal out of his Super Form while he bullied Sonic and Knuckles. Also Shadow was able to solo an entire army of Shadow androids that were bullying Sonic and his friends. Shadow was amped by fake Chaos energy but Sonic has that ability as well
Sonic and Shadow are always stated to be equals or relative. I believe they can beat each other depending on the circumstances. That’s why games usually have Sonic (us) win but nearly every show (Canon or non canon) portrays Shadow as better
@@LittleMac5yep good video. Just giving my opinion
@@LittleMac5shut yo ass up bro, let this man give his opinion, goddamn. People just hating fr.
Prime and IDW has too many contradictions to the Canon
Shadow didn't beat him in Prime he was trying to take his gear
Hero ending is canon...the eclipse Cannon was damaged and Eggman didn't know Sonic was alive
He didn't lost in Sonic Heroes it was a tie neither won the fight.
Shadow caught Neo Metal off guard. He would have gotten the Same beating Sonic and Knuckles have gotten
Haha imagine talking about sonic prime. Shadow was also stronger in sonic boom too 😂
In SA2, Dark Ending, Hero Ending and True Ending are *ALL* canon, Hero and Dark happen concurrently, True happens last.
Doom wings isn't just him having wings. It's his new super form. He is invincible when using it just like in super form. theoretically if super was stacked on Doom wings it may be similar to cyber super sonic in power. (Key word theoretically.)
His invincibility comes from him having a chaos emerald in combination with his Doom Wings though (hence the yellow glow). That's why he needed it, and had Rouge slip him the fake one.
its not a super form, its just a powerful transformation thanks to his doom powers + a chaos emerald
the invincibility feels like its just an excuse to not make it completely overpowered while playing with the wings, same with the rings being drained lol
@@DLxxx Wrong, if you paid attention to cutscenes, it was Sonic who had the fake emerald, Rogue just swapped them last second
What’s crazy is that I made a short on this exact topic a few weeks ago, it’s awesome to see other peoples opinions on this!
5:17
Sonic needed a power-boost to beat Shadow in the Sonic Gen, but in Shadow Gen we can see that's not what happen at all, so it doesn't really count
@@LittleMac5 Yeah but like I said, that fight doesn't really count now because of Shadow Gen, that shows what actually happen.
And both of them didn't use any power-ups in the fight, Shadow just didn't want to fight at that moment since he has more important things to take care of.
@@NewVision_true
I wouldn't say he didn't want to fight since it was obvious he wanted to beat Sonic but chose not to use the doom spear, or chaos control bc he had multiple amps in the game. He wanted hold back and beat Sonic using his base powers which I think included chaos spear and teleportation since he fought Sonic using those said abilities before in base with no amps. He wanted to fight Sonic on an even playing field not one where he has an advantage with the power of a chaos emerald and a fake one, and his doom powers.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 Yup
@@LittleMac5 One tapped a off-guard Shadow that didn't even fight back, so still I don't take that as real win
Which I acknowledged
Sonic vs Shadow is basically Goku vs Vegeta where Goku is clearly on top but because of semantic arguments and the fact Vegeta has never directly lost to Goku people think Vegeta is stronger. The same is true for this matchup
It's weird how Vegeta is weaker than Goku but when it comes to fighting each other writers feel the need to make Vegeta win. It's starting to feel like Vegeta fan service. "Oh so sorry that Vegeta can't beat/finish off a main villain, but we'll at least make it so that he beats Goku in a 1v1".
@@trueaura369lmao exactly!
Idk, man. The guy who was literally trained by God's since he was a kid, I would think he would be stronger than Vegeta , who prior to super had 0 formal training and was keeping up with just strength training and getting mind controlled. You should give Vegeta his props. Dude kept up with Goku with nothing but his pride and will.
Honestly, I think Vegeta has won every one of their encounters. Saiyan Saga (until he got jumped) . Buu Saga ( yes goku had ssj3 but couldn't use it, doesn't excuse him losing to vegeta) and super hero movie ( which is cannon and was a fight in base , so vegeta has a stronger base)
@ apparently though Vegetas Pride and Will isn’t enough to finish anyone off. 🤷🏾♂️ Goku was putting in work with a heart disease
@1d3r because the writers don't let vegeta get a dub. Cause it's Goku story. Vegeta has done more with less. Just admit it
Sega said if shadow's popularity rises they will do more games with him. Maybe from sonic frontiers 2 we'll get multiple playable characters who knows...
I think that’s dumb since wasn’t Shadow always a fan favourite? With some people even preferring him to Sonic? Sonic team really needs to get with the times
It's Sega's problem overall. Majima is the most popular character in Yakuza series, but they still don't understand why, and only now doing 2 game for him where he is playable. Sega surely have a communication issues
@@TheGamingRift11i think someone said sega did the akira toriyama and the vegeta treament with shadow because they want sonic to have spotlight
@@TheGamingRift11sonic team ditched having the side cast be playable after 06 bombed. ig they just lost faith in everyone including shadow
@@TheGamingRift11 Right. This whole "year of Shadow" and his "revival" has always been weird to me, since he appeared in almost every Sonic game since his debut. And even games he didn't appear in, like Frontiers, had his VA act as Shadow in the Twitter promotions for that game's release.
He never went anywhere, unlike many of the side characters who were actually side lined, on top of being ruined.
sonic surviving the titans is impressive. in the flash backs we see that these weren't made with metal, they were generated completely by the power of the chaos emeralds.
The doom wings also make shadow more resilient as he is able to resist neo devil dooms attacks while losing 0 rings (hebdidn't get dmaged)
I’m not gonna watch this video so don’t feel the need to read this comment but there’s really no point to arguing about this, they are equals, and are quite clearly equals, sometimes sonic will win sometimes shadow will win. Sonic says in shadow generations he won “this one” which means he wins and loses all the time otherwise he would say I won again. And anyone who thinks shadow is holding back. In sa2 it was a fight to the death and sonic won, why would shadow be holding back then?
perfect response
@ballooningen thanks
On the first point: That actually wasn't Shadow's full objective as Shadow was knowledgeable OF Gerald's initiation of the ARK's direct crash course to Earth. It was never stated he wasn't aware and didn't seem surprised, so he really could have been trying to stall Sonic out for it to happen. Even if Sonic DID win, this doesn't mean that Sonic wasn't trying in the fight. Sure Sonic was in a rush to blow up the Eclipse Cannon before it would go off, but surely that's more reason enough to try that much harder to stop it before it does anything. So, I do believe that it was a rather even fight, especially since it's been stated that they were rather equal at the time. A fight is dictated by more than just power, but also circumstance.
Also, the last part about Shadow saying Sonic is the Ultimate Lifeform may more just be an act of passing down the mantle as earlier in the Finalhazard fight, it was stated that Shadow was getting tired (this is his first usage of the Super form) and that may have known he might not make it. Either that or it could just be him admitting that in terms of heroism and mentality, that he is more deserving of the title. Especially since they are rather equal in power overall.
On the second point: Whether the other endings of Shadow 05 are non-canon or not, I don't think it matters all TOO much. I think the other endings are valid in terms of the possibility of these things happening. Such as Shadow being able to take on Sonic and Diablon at the same time. I believe that it shows the potential of power Shadow is very well capable of reaching.
On the third point: The "amping" doesn't really happen. Just because the emerald is within possession, it doesn't automatically mean that one is actually using the power to empower themselves. The only instance of this would be when they actively USE the emeralds' power with Chaos Control. Unless directly stated or shown, I wouldn't say that anyone is amped with the emeralds. Thus, really the fight was still balanced even without the amping. I don't think Shadow lags behind here in terms of power in regards to Sonic either. Shadow did have to clear an entire level, to get to Eggman to interrogate him, rush over to save Sonic (who was definitely struggling against Silver even after knowing his moves and SHOULD have been fast enough to expect his future attacks), and fold the white boy. Not exactly indicative of Shadow on the scaling chain.
On the fourth point: Lancelot, if he is anything like Shadow on their first meetup, most likely underestimated a "knave" like Sonic, but the rematch is fair. However, unsure about it's canonicity considering it IS post-game material. Not saying it isn't canon, but I'm just not sure. It's like replaying a boss on hard-mode, though who really knows. This one is fine.
On the fifth point: Even taking Shadow Generations into account, neither Sonic or Shadow could really do any significant damage to one another unless they used the Energy Core against one another. Either way, they were equally matched and had to amp themselves to do anything significant. However, still agree with the equalization here.
On the sixth point: This isn't implying that Shadow couldn't replicate the same feat. Just because Sonic was shown to kind of match and struggle with the clones, it doesn't mean that Shadow isn't able to do it as well. Nothing really implying power superiority in the intro sequence. He doesn't really tag Infinite either in it since Infinite was just outright finessing him. In Episode Shadow, the example you used isn't exactly a fair comparison since this is Shadow before the 6-months and this was from a sneak attack planned by Infinite and the Sonic you used was after the six months where he's obviously grown in power. Sonic also visibly was trying to protect himself against an attack from the Clone Shadow (which means he recognizes Shadow's power and sees him as a threat if he went against him), to which Shadow bodies immediately. I think there's not too much to conclude who is superior aside from the bad writing of Forces basically rendering any other character that WOULD be relative or equal to Sonic useless. Could say that Sonic might be stronger, but Forces writing is a headache so it just baffles me. Big unsure here.
Fight breakdown evaluation: Mephiles analysis is meh. It doesn't translate since Shadow needed Chaos Boost to do significant damage to Mephiles since Mephiles in his monster form was pretty much invulnerable until Chaos Boost is used. Also, it's obvious that these bosses aren't just past version, but versions of them that seem to be stronger as they have new capabilities they didn't originally have before (such as the limbs mutation that Biolizard has).
For the Doom powers, Doom Surf is actually more useful than Sonic's water running thing in concept. There's a difference between just running across water and using something like a boat or a more aquatically-tuned vehicle to traverse. It is more practical and allows more advanced maneuvers in water. Logically, it makes sense. It isn't an anti-feat for Shadow either as in the Shadow Rival Battle in Gens, Shadow moves at the same speed as Sonic so it isn't like Shadow is slower or can't do what Sonic does.
For Doom Wing, that isn't really an argument. Just because Sonic has fought flying enemies before, it doesn't give him any inherent advantage. Shadow has ALSO fought airborne enemies before. It's the fact that Doom Wing is specifically rather powerful it seems and it ALSO gives Shadow invulnerability in-game, so it is a direct boost in durability and seemingly power due to the final fight.
I will say one thing that in Frontiers, there IS idle dialogue that mentions that Sonic "wouldn't mind Shadow's help". This could imply that Sonic sees Shadow as someone that could actually really help right now. Whether it implies power equality, unsure. Though if even Sonic is giving props to Shadow, I think that may make them comparable.
Conclusion: This analysis has some issues in my opinion, but it isn't a horrible analysis. It wasn't a toxic exchange where disrespect was thrown towards a character's way nor was it toxic and I do appreciate that from a powerscaling video. Especially one that involves both Sonic and Shadow (as those debates can get rather heated). I like to keep civility, really. However I will say one thing and that the Sonic Verse has never truly had power creep. The world's powerscaling has never been a focus in-verse and most of the time, the characters are comparable to one another and capable of putting up a good fight against one another or threats similar to themselves. It may have some shonen instances, but the Sonic Verse somewhat scales itself and/or leaves the scaling to the side for the sake of gameplay and/or story.
Which brings me to my next point, I think taking the context of certain story beats, the intentions and knowledge of characters, and the events that transpire as a result of them into account does help with powescaling in a roundabout way or provides more context to certain feats as the "superior fighter" often doesn't just come down to a winner or loser, but the lead-up.
Sorry if this is long, I just thought I should passionately give my review/criticism on this matter as I am rather knowledgeable on many facets of Sonic and Shadow stuff.
Yeah I do agree with some parts but also if Shadow knew about the Eclipse cannons true function, why would he even try stop Sonic from blowing it up?
He’d be aware sonic is wasting his time as blowing up the weapon doesn’t prevent the threat that Gerald created
It was confirmed to be a tie (SA2).
@@TheGamingRift11That is up to interpretation as you can clearly see Shadow is chilling on the ARK after the fight. He isn’t trying to stop Sonic or anything.
@@TheGamingRift11 Again, fighting Sonic means stalling him. Which means less chance of them figuring out anything about Gerald's true intentions of "even if x happens, Gerald had this as a true plan". He would be FULLY aware that Sonic is wasting time and that's the point. Gerald had a real Doomsday Plan ready in case. Shadow DID have his memories specifically altered by Gerald himself and Shadow actually outsmarted Eggman with the plan Gerald had that Shadow followed through on.
SEGA never said it was a tie. Shadow outright said he wanted to end sonic. Sonic is still aIive so if shadow win, why is sonic still here? Make it make sense.
The idea of characters "getting stronger" isn't a good argument. Classic Sonic beat Chaos 0 in one hit, scaling him above Adventure Sonic. These things don't make sense.
Characters are only scaled up to the game they are in. Its why Classic Sonic can perform feats above his Sonic Adventure counterpart if thats game the game environment.
Put Shadow in Sonic Frontiers and he will sweep it as easily as in Shadow Generations. Because Shadow in Chaos Island scaled up to that Cyber location simply by being in the game
Because it’s basically stated it’s different classic sonic from the one from previous games since that classic sonic was from generations
So basically even tho it’s applied that classic sonic and modern sonic are the same generations and forces basically made changed classic sonic timeline so meaning that version of classic sonic is lot different from the one that became modern sonic
The chaos island wouldn’t really scale shadow in any way as that’s like saying time eater would solo Solaris by this logic and cyber locations wouldn’t scale shadow either to be honest
funny since the time eater can possibly beat solaris, think about it, sonic was far stronger than his 06 counterpart in gens, to the point where his base form seemingly surpasses his super form from the older games due to effortlessly beating perfect chaos, including the fact that the time eater had the abilityto bring back worlds and beings that were already erased before such as mephiles and that burning city thing from silver's future, also, it's not like it's gonna be that surprisingwhen you remember that even infinite from sonic forces scales above solaris simply because sega or sonic team (don't exactly remember who) has said that infinite is the strongest enemy sonic has ever had which most likely includes solaris, let alone the titans and the end @@hackerninjaexe5791
Classic Sonic beat a replica of Chaos, not Chaos himself. Despite Shadow saying the replicas being as formidable as the originals, that clearly wasn’t the case when the resistance fought the army of replicas
@@iam4026 they actually were comparable to the real ones, but the difference here is that the replicas are nowhere near as intelligent as any other character, because we can see that the real shadow actually had his own techniques and stuff that could destroy most of the army, unlike the replica shadow who only knew how to attack when we saw him attack sonic, besides, zavok was powerful enough to literally be an actual boss fight
Sonic's got a little something called "accelerated development". Sonic literally gets stronger in each game and his friends (some of them) still being comparable to him is proof that they're also getting stronger.
Sonic does beat shadow several times but its impossible to say whos stronger because shadow has never taken off his inhibitor rings against sonic
Every time he fights sonic he isnt at full power, and thanks to generations we now see shadow beat metal overlord by himself, something sonic needed to be super for, along with super tails and super knuckles
Sega purposely does this, using shadows inhibitor rings to claim them as equals but never letting us really know whos stronger
To be fair in generations the characters seemed way stronger
Yes Shadow beat metal overlord by himself in base form but Sonic was able to beat perfect Chaos in base form when he needed a super form initially so they both have stronger base forms now that can compete against bosses that once required super
Sega has made it clear either one or the other could win in a fight depending on the circumstances.
To be fair, I don't think taking off his rings would count as a "fair fight" in Shadow's mind.
But then again Shadow Generations, Gerald says that taking off them off in the state Shadow is right now. He might explode.
@sonicthehedge yea butn any other fight against sonic he could take them off but never has, which keeps him from being at full power
@shazaz1059 well sonic also does get stronger with each game
But considering metal required 3 suer forms I'd say that's a bigger point toward shadow
But taking them off also has a drawback of using too much energy, too quickly, and shadow needing to rest.
Edit: It all comes down to if shadow beating sonic within the amount of time he has them off or sonic just dodging and waiting for shadow to use up all his energy and take him out while he recovers. Based on this, it's all benefit vs cost
Of course Sonic wins. He's the main character.
That’s not how that works
@@TheGamingRift11sometimes yeah and not you know what we mean
@@DEMOMLORD7actually no idk what people mean by that. Since in a lot of verses the main character can die… with sonic ironically being no different
@@TheGamingRift11 What do you mean? Sonic has the power of the plot by his side. That's why he wins. 😑😑
.... It's a joke by the way.
@@TheGamingRift11 we mean they Always sometimes mc so strong nobody can beat them but that is just few sometimes there are gods or older stronger characters but thats just the story thats why
"the doom powers are severely over hyped" THANK YOU!!! Literally every "advantage" those gooey ability's grant Shadow is something he can already do with his rock skates (fly/water run/squid gimmick) or are just flavored up versions of attacks he can already do (chaos spear and chaos punishment).
But even then, they give him no edge over Sonic whatsoever, and to top that he looses them at the end of generations anyway.
The in game mechanics of these new abilities doesn't matter. The abilities are literally to supplant Super Shadow.
Black Doom is STILL enhancing Shadow beyond the limits of Sonic in Gens. At the bare minimum. Thats what Shadow tells Rouge. It's clear he knows Sonic in his glory as of Sonic Gens. Isnt close to him. He refuses to attack Sonic. When Sonic angers him. He activate his Doom powers literally takes aim and then relatives he'll severely hurt Sonic if he Doom spears him.
And Geraldt says Shadow is already so powerful, if he removed the inhibitors he'd burst. Let's be clear while canonically Shadow has only ever done this once. Sonic X is still a Sega sanctioned show. It's supplementary material no different than the comics. And Shadow can be Super and remove the inhibitor rings.
So while it's not canon. It does atleast set a precedent. That the Doom abilities grant an inherent power boost that trumps the Super form.
Plus Sonic Prime is supposedly a different dimension canon. Just like Mania. Shadow is legitimately stronger than Sonic there as well. Shadow literally performs feats thats better than beating Sonic. Like taking his gear so fast Sonic doesn't recognize it. And Shadow fights off an army that's trying to kill him. Made up of Sonic and others. Sonic gets whopped badly by 1 metal Sonic. Shadow takes on entire army.
This argument is always one of semantics. Sonic is the main character and we're only JUST NOW. Coming out of Sega disrespecting and disregarding the rest of the cast. 2 years ago Amy Tails and Knuckles were playable again since 2006. Shadow was in Forces but he played a role of little significance displaying how Infinite became the host of the Ruby.
@@AMAZIAHyeah but then again also if we were to do a modern fight between Sonic and Shadow at the most recent point in time in the timeline can't use the doom abilities so no matter what they're basically useless in this unless you give Shadow is doom abilities but even then you're going to need to give Sonic something because it's unfair to give a shadow something extra and not give Sonic so for Sonic I just give him his cyberspace abilities
@@AMAZIAHShadow took off the Rings in Sonic 06 and plowed through multiple Mephiles clones. 1 alone is enough to take out even Sonic.
I do love the doom powers, and think they aren’t actually that overhyped, as long as you look at them as a cool new set of abilities, instead of some overpowered ones scalable to super sonic.
Well, Shadow only got time to bully his clone once. We don't really see him do that often. And considering how quickly he knocked out his clone, compared to how much it takes Sonic to do the same to Zavok's clone.
Shadow Generations takes place in 2011 when forces wasn't out yet
I’m aware…. What’s your point?
@ well I have seen people compare the strength to Frontiers Super Sonic and complain about Infinite not being in when he arrived in 2017
@@Mephiles_as_Terios
Well there are stages in Shadow Generations from the future like Forces
@ yeah which is odd I thought only the stuff from the past could be pulled into white space
@@TheGamingRift11meaning shadow from generations is pre forces shadow
There's just one thing you forgot to mention about shadow, His inhibitors rings. When shadow takes off his inhibitors he gains a tremendous amount of power.
Super Sonic 2 or cyber Sonic can already fight a super shadow without the '-' inhibitor rings, besides, this would be more of a weakness than an advantage,Unlike Sonic, Shadow would have a time limit before his body is destroyed '-'
I dunno you didn't mention that the Doom Wings gives Shadow invulnerability like the Super Forms do. Also I thought Eggman was in possession of the final chaos emerald in SA2 after fighting Tails, so doesn't that mean Shadow fought Sonic with zero emeralds in their last fight in SA2 or am I forgetting something? Also Sonic mission was to destroy the Eclipse cannon by shoving the fake emerald in the Eclipse cannon, thus destroying it yet in Shadow 05 the eclipse cannon is still functional so doesn't that mean Sonic failed thus making it a tie?
of course Sonic will have more feats and more impressive ones, he is the main character. How do you know Frontiers Sonic is stronger? You don't, because Shadow might as well be having his own adventure at the same time and facing a stronger foe than The End and the titans. And as Chaos island appears in Generations, I believe we will have a "Shadow Frontiers" game. Than you can compare them. And in the end all of this is pointless, because Sega states that Sonic and Shadow are equals in the end, even in Speed, because Shadow is an artificial Sonic. They are and always will be equals and rivals.
@@Ed_Games234 so we agree that sonic is more experienced with better feats?
And yes we do know Frontiers sonic is stronger through getting stronger over time naturally, something confirmed many times in the recent games
If your argument is based off speculation then i wouldn’t bother
So basically the winner is the plot and whoever is writing it.
Note: this fight comes before frontiers. Not to mention shadow wasn’t able to function his doom powers causing his to be distracted by Sonics leap on him. Other than that shadow also said he would fight sonic on equal terms. Meaning fight him without his dooms power. Another thing is that since he is sonic look-a-like he can also use the same powers he gained. Plus his ring inhibitor’s despite total exhaustion.
Sonic being tired in the in the first interaction is an opinion.
Sonic didn’t win the 3rd fight. It was confirmed that it was a draw.
Even if Shadow the hedgehog endings weren’t canon. It is still theoretically what would happen had they fought at the time. Shadow was stronger than Sonic here.
You can see sonic panting after beating the gun robot and after evading gun for presumably the whole afternoon
Shadow beat sonic in shadow with 6 chaos emeralds in his possession…
@@yvng_hero305so shadow is that weak that he needs six emeralds to beat one guy?
@@Dripichigo-m7j i mean probably less but he still had 6😭
@@Dripichigo-m7jyes and that guy was still holding back 😭
It seems like the new Doom Powers are kinda crap except Doom Spears.
Like, Shadow should be allowed to use Spin Dash and other factors. It's not like he's slow, or spin dash was an ability locked to Sonic.
They could've done other things with the Doom Powers.
We all know just base form shadow is way more skilled than Sonic period.
Sega & Sonic Team:
"Sonic & Shadow are still equals in every regard, and that won't change."
Fans: "Sonic vs Shadow isn't even close! Shadow stands no chance!"
I find it hilarious how fans keep asking who wins for years & Sega/Sonic Team are like: "they're equals in every way so who knows?"
@@LittleMac5 i mean nobody knows who wins in adventure 2 as there is no clear cut stated winner from Sega just rando fan speculation, generations its shown Shadow was holding back and hesitated which gave Sonic his opening to beat him so that barely counts, meanwhile Shadow stomps Sonic with the gun commander backing him up in his own game, and Silver beats Sonic but Shadow claps Silver in 06, and no the win against Lancelot doesn't count as that is not Shadow. soooooooo do you even play the games i wonder?
Death of the author fallacy
Okay so then we look at the next best thing, whos won. And shadow has canonically never besten sonic. So there. Simple.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.he had WAY more games than shadow and is the main character so that's not really a valid argument for a fight between two characters described as equals
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.then Vegeta is always stronger than Goku, cause by your logic, he canonically never beat him in a one on one…lol there’s factors to these things
We don't even have an up-to-date Shadow and people are saying Sonic beats him. Can we not make conclusions until they both appear in the same game, fight in said game, and see who wins.
Yeah but it’s still a restless community
I don’t agree that Shadow didn’t wanna fight Sonic in Gens. If that was the case, he would’ve just given Sonic the fake from the jump. Sonic was out running him and putting that pressure on that made him almost use his Doom powers.
I think he didn't want to fight, he wanted Sonic to leave him alone, as he had better stuff to do. When he realised Sonic wouldn't leave him alone, he ran into the portal. Shadows character isn't to just bend over for Sonic and submit to his will 😂
@ he conveniently had 2 emeralds to hand over. A perfect out to be left alone. He wanted the smoke with Sonic bc he’s competitive. Shadow isn’t the type to waste time with no payoff.
@@Soldat4wSonic would just immediately know something is off because Shadow is never just that willing to give something up. Rouge even said Sonic would notice the difference eventually. Shadow had to play it off like he wanted the emerald and then outsmarted Sonic keeping the real one.
I really liked the abilities sonic had in frontiers especially the energy attacks. I hope they expand on them in the next game. And allow them to be used in boost gameplay if it’s there.
I agree - kinda like how as shadow you could use doom spears whilst at high speeds
Firing energy projectiles whilst running and completing parkour etc
i don't know if it's entirely accurate to only use power scaling to settle in-series debates. canon is also important and as far as the series itself is concerned, sonic and shadow are always portrayed as equal, even if sonic has more feats (naturally, he's the main character with the most screentime)
@@LittleMac5 Shadow loses because he either holds back or is too injured to go all out.
And are you really trying to argue with canon? lmao
Not only that but y’all forget that those rings on Shadow’s wists hold back his true power,so every time he fights Sonic he’s not even using half of his full power,and he can use Chaos control without the emeralds as shown in the comics which are canon to the games.Shadow also has doom powers,so even if their base physical stats are equal,shadow can use his full power+doom powers+chaos control he stomps Sonic bad😂😂😂
I…. Did use canon events as well as scaling?
@@LittleMac5main character syndrome:
This changed the moment shadow was given his own game btw where he fights sonic and something else(idr the name)and won
It is close- it's always been close- 💀
Shadow generations Shadow one shotting Sonic Frontiers enemies kind of puts a wrench into this though.
At that Point,one really has to question what is Valid,and what is Gameplay
@gabrielmachado1247 Gameplay is based on what characters can & can’t actually do. And has been used to scale Sonic. Why treat Shadow any differently?
@TheAlphazoneYT because its inconsistent,why? Infinite
Base Frontiers Sonic Struggles with this enemies,he actually has to Fight them,and not just jump on them and be on his merry way
Infinite is as,or slightly weaker than this Sonic,so he would struggle just as much
Generations Shadow Being able to Defeat them in one-shot,would mean he scales above Both,but that can't happen because Infinite Washes Forces Shadow,Who would be Stronger Than Generations Shadow
@ gabrielmachado1247 When did Infinite wash Forces Shadow? Where’d you pull that from? Because it didn’t happen, thus this inconsistency you refer to is nonexistent.
@TheAlphazoneYT in Episode Shadow,and He Got put into a Bunch of Ilusión levels
Its obvious Shadow did not Defeat Infinite,and even if you Argue they did not Fought then,You can see Infinite's Obvious Superiority by the Fact,The resistance Only started winning After Sonic Got out,Eggman Only Started Winning After taking care of Sonic
When Infinite talked about Proving his Strength After getting the Phantom Ruby,Shadow started to become much less of a Factor,Infinite,and Much More Eggman,Only Worried about sonic the entire Game
To Eggman,the Guy Conquering the World,Shadow was never a factor,To Infinite,he Already proved Shadow was below him,and wanted to Defeat the Big Hog to show he was the Strongest
Forces Shadow is Stronger Than Generations Shadow,and in Forces the Game practically shoved into our Throats te Info that Sonic is Him,and that to win we need Sonic,Reason why he also gets saved so early in the story
Forces,is a bad story,its badly written,but its canon,and In Forces,which Comes Waaaaay After Generations,and infinite is the strongest Enemy To date,and This is the Sonic,Small Sonic and Avatar show, because everybody else can not do shit
The way I've always understood it was that Shadow has more physical strength, a better connection to chaos energy, greater endurance, and more refined combat techniques than Sonic. With Sonic having higher stamina, equal to or often slightly higher top speed, more experience with the spin dash, and a more adaptable equipment toolkit courtesy of Tails.
Conclusion: Sonic wins
Shadow: *remove his enhibitor rings*
Sonic: oh sh*t
Sonic wouldn't have any problem and he can outran shadow until he runs out of power so cap
No inhibitor rings Shadow is featless so nah
People seriously overrate Shadow without Inhibitor Rings.
@@JayRedGear thank you
@@JayRedGear No absolutly not!
Mephiles oneshoted Sonic without using any chaos emeralds while Shadow easily destroyed Mephiles who used 2 chaos emeralds to make his clones
Haven't watched the video yet, but off the top of my head, I'd say Sonic.
He isn't relient on the air-shoes for speed, which takes Chaos energy, so Sonic is a bit more "efficent" in a fight, he has higher a durability feet, with the orbital drop where Shadow is put out of commission for a time, while Sonic walks both his orbital drops off, the second time after suffering form cyber corruption for an unknown amount of time and definitely not being at his best.
Shadow is certainly more powerful in terms of physical strength and chaos energy projection, but he kind of needs that make up for the durability difference.
While Shadow certainly has more combat training, Sonic is just way more experienced at fighting than Shadow, like I think Shadow at most has at least half the combat experience Sonic has.
This is all at base, and I'm not even getting into the Super Forms, which would equal most of their stats.
Even then, I'd say Sonic since he again just has way more experience, especially with his Super Form, and he can obivously can do more with it than Shadow can at the moment.
You know I'm curious
this matchup has been so contentious for so long but after SxSG...I honestly want to know how you feel about Infinite vs Mephiles with all biases aside as quite frankly Mephiles suffers from severe power creep thanks to this game
Thanks for the idea!! Maybe I’ll dedicate a video to it!!
Both versions of Gens are so shameless when it comes to powercreep. It's probably my least favorite aspect about them. What's the point in having these bosses come back for a hype moment if it's just to highlight how much stronger the protagonist have gotten?
Not that it really matter in the case of Mephiles, because Shadow needed his Doom Powers to effectively counter his attacks, and those were external, temporary boost. Base Shadow without the Doom Powers (who lost to Mephiles in 06 and had to be bailed out by Omega), would probably have a significantly harder time (especially since the dialogue suggest Mephiles was toying with him until he realizes he could actually lose toward the end).
I mean generations still comes before forces where the characters scale higher and the infinite statement by sega still exists so i dont think the outcome changes.
I like to think they are both equal and Sonic Team does a great job at implying that because every time one loses to the other the explanation as to why it happened has never been "One is more powerful than the other"
I'm not gonna bother trying to debate this as its gone on for so long that its just annoying now but I will say that the two are equally matched. Sonic is faster but Shadow is fast enough to not get blitzed, Shadow is stronger but sonic is strong enough to match him.
You forgot Doom Wing was also entirely invulnerable to damage though when you brought it up.
And if your using 06 then you also need to remember he said his Chaos Control is absolute in 06, and the time stopping power can't be broken, but then we see in Shadow Generations final fight Doom Wing Shadow break a Chaos Control from a much stronger Black Doom, and there were no indications that Shadow used Chaos Control to do it, just that he brute forced it.
AND Shadow has inhibitor rings constantly limiting his full power, and we've only seen him remove a max of 2 of them in the games, this being in 06. If Shadow takes off all 4, he'd likely die from it before even reaching his max power, implying Shadow at his 100% is strong enough to kill himself just from the raw power overload alone.
I honestly forgot he had 4 inhibiter rings. The ones on his ankles.
9:18 ngl i find the doom spears pretty weak in gameplay terms its just a better version of chaos spears which the better part is you being able to use 5 they are similar and just stuns the opponent hell it just stuns normal robots for crying out loud
hmm.. i just noticed something, u kind of disrespected doom wings (maybe by accident or forgot how it works), that's basically Shadow's superform, but without emeralds, it even takes ur rings and makes u invincible, so yeah, regular Sonic doesn't stand chance against that
Nice! Although I’d argue the Doom Powers give him a huge amp in power. They practically make him a Super Form, him being invincible, giving off yellow aura, the super electricity, and him even being able to fight Neo Devil Doom who was from the future (Gerald states this apparently), being similar to the Super form. And Sonic implies in Frontiers that Shadow is still relative to him, and as of TailsTube it’s implied they can still bout on equal terms. So I’d say Doom Shadow >>>> Frontiers Sonic
😂 that dosen't mean he is super and the Hedgehog has fought beings that are more dangerous then doom shadow dude like what? And I'm not sure if that's canon also really yellow aura and electricity you do know that wouldn't mean super right and Neo Doom could of been talking about super shadow not just all super form😅
@ That’s a very coherent sentence you got there man
@@Dripichigo-m7j Coherent sentence this is not.
Bro, literally, Doom Spears and Doom Blast are weaker versions of Chaos Spears and Blast. If he didn't win even with the powers of the Emeralds being superior to his Doom powers, why do you think he would overcome him with an inferior power? @@Yes-cj6vr
@ Doom blast isn’t even supposed to be Chaos blast 🤦♂️ also literally every source says Doom spear > Chaos spear, really? Also Shadow literally stated that if he actually fought Sonic, it would’ve been a very unfair fight.
Skill vs experience. Sonic always puts himself out there while shadow for most of his life live peacefully until the raid on the arc and essentially began his quest for revenge in sa2. Also, apparently, generations now takes place after frontier and forces.
Generations still takes place before Forces and Frontiers dude
@wellingtonafonsodecarvalho9842 I said apparently not that I believe it. Other sonic UA-camrs have made that claim. Honestly, I don't care enough for Sonic Lore. I've only played the games that interest me
@@omarruiz1394 my bad
L video since we’re comparing two different time periods against each other towards the end instead of just natural stats. If Shadow was in frontiers, then they would just be equal again. If Shadow got his own game past frontiers, he would be “stronger” even though we know the entire cast is getting stronger in the background. These two will always be equal with outside factors determining who wins. Sonic will always have the edge since the series is named after him. Shadow will always be just as strong because he’s the rival and second most popular character. The end
@@daj7237 I compared the strong versions of Sonic and Shadow shown in the games without superforms
It’s not the fault of the video that Shadows last canonical appearance was in Forces and Sonics was in Frontiers 🤷♂️
@ but it’s the foolishness of the title of the video itself…”not even close” when they are literally created to always be close and are shown to be close anytime they interact is wild man. You even mention it at the end of the video…
@@TheGamingRift11 Shadow Gens is canon
His last appearance was NOT in forces 💀
Also Frontiers Sonic is a victim without the emeralds
That's literally the reason why you're spending 80% of the game collecting them to begin with
@@TheGamingRift11its still misleading though? Why even compare 2 people from 2 different times?
Who is stronger end of series sasuke or naruto when he first fought haku? Makes no sense
If you cant acuratly scale them then dont, dont pretend to have cracked the code if its all misleading at best and flat out wrong at worst.
A more usefull video would have been to compare the unique powers they have.
@@chrisuki4831yeah no base Sonic slams shadow
Quick reminder that gerald said that if Shadow where to release his inhibitor rings while the way he was with his doom powers, he would go FUCKING NUCLEAR, which he continues with saying to only remove them unless he ABSOLUTELY needs to, says alot for how terrifying Shadow would be if he truly had nothing left to lose and just removed all of his inhibitor rings and just goes full DBS Broly Mode
Sonic vs Shadow is way too hard than it needs to be. My mindset is either they equally win which is most likely or Sonic wins purely because he has more experience and is faster. Sega keeps saying they’re equal but it just keeps getting debunked over and over and over again.
I think Sonic slams low diff
@ see that’s what I always think but I keep hearing people say things about Shadow that gets me thinking even though I KNOW Sonic can counter em
@@NeonAi08 Sonic is shadow’s biggest weakness 😭
@@john_negs7720 💀
@@NeonAi08 I honestly see no wincon for shadow I’m not even trying to be biased.
I cant ignore Shadows inhibitor rings on his wrists. If hes fully allowed to let loose his chaos energy theres a genuine fight in my eyes
Yeah, Shadow is gonna need way more adventures and growth in his power if he ever dreams of beating Sonic, and even then Sonic is likely to get far stronger over time so at that point, Shadow, like Metal Sonic, will ultimately be nothing to Sonic power wise.
Be a monk, and wait for many years of your expectations.
Shadow and Sonic are confirmed to be equals in the games and also by the writers buddy
Both are just as strong
Yeah, no, shadow wins. *Bruh everyone be talking about shadow needing to use doom surf to go on water and yet sonic couldn't even run on water in frontiers* 💀
Is that a hint of biased opinion I smell? All jokes aside sonic just has way more feats then shadow. Shadow can use all the chaos emeralds he wants but it's no use.
@@whezzerbloxxer7472 Two words, ring inhibators. Other than that sonic would win.
@ nah he'd win
@@lordx8844 Definitely not if we talking frontiers sonic. Any other version of sonic would lose to shadow extreme diff he would have to take off his ring inhibators
@@TanJurine5873 we didn't even see shadow in Frontiers to draw any conclusions on whether or not he had gotten stronger as well. It was stated several times they were equal in every way so that could mean, just like sonic he gets stronger as time passes on.
Gotta correct you on Sonic Battle:
Sonic didn't need master emerald to beat the Ultimate Emerl. The original plan was to neutralise the power of chaos emeralds that Emerl was powered on to stop him, but fails since Emerl was able to shatter Master Emerald into the pieces before Sonic could do his plan. This forced Sonic to 1v1 Ultimate Emerl and do enough damage to him before the latter will destroy the Earth in 30 seconds. In less than 30 seconds Sonic was able to defeat something that was considered the strongest weapon to ever exist! Shadow at that time didn't even dared to approach Emerl at that state.
Sonic stomps. Don't let the Shadow glazing from other media fool you, the main game Modern Sonic is a beast. Shadow was created to be the ultimate life form, he was literally built to be the best, and he loses to Sonic. Sonic is the true all natural ultimate life form.
It's been stated how many times by Sega they were equal
@@MeepinMeh
And it gets contradicted, your point?
@@bluephoenix_z3364 they're stated as equals ofc in the games there's going to be moments where sonic beats shadow because he's the main character. If we go outside of gameplay instances we are shown they are equally matched like in Sonic Prime which is canon
@@MeepinMehcook
@@MeepinMehprime contradicts itself with its shit portrayal of sonic. Just cuz sega says its canon, doesnt mean it should be taken seriously considering they play with the canon like its a fucking joke “everything is canon” like come on now.
In the final Sonic vs Shadow fight in SA2, Shadow wasn’t trying to stop Sonic, just delay him until Eggman put the last real emerald in the machine. Shadow knew that the Ark would collide with the Earth and didn’t care if Sonic destroyed the Eclipse Cannon.
Shadow literally says that he can’t let Sonic live.
@ trash talking. Even if he intended to do it, he technically didn’t need to.
@@Hynotamawhether he needed to or not doesn’t matter. If he intended on killing Sonic, he failed to do so.
It used to be close..... Now it's a slaughter
Honestly they should be on the same level, make Sonic slighty faster, but Shadow slighty physically stronger
It'd make their dynamic interesting & cool
@@LittleMac5 Boy, you glazing Sonic too much💀
@@LittleMac5 I mean he is the Best written character In the franchise, so he deserves praise
@@LittleMac5 I mean, we haven't seen Shadow after Forces in the canon, but right now based on the last time we've seen Shadow.
Then yea Frontiers Sonic beats Forces Shadow
They're literally stated to be equals in every way to this day lmao
1. More arguments to Sonic's favor:
I feel like in SA2 Sonic originally was supposed to be the ultimate life form since everything Shadow did there Sonic did better, he literally can chaos control with a fake emerald and he didn't "die" in the Biolizard fight like Shadow did, I feel like Sonic 06 did retcon that by making Shadow immortal and making Sonic die
In ur black night argument u can literally see at the end of the third paragraph in ur screenshot 4:15 that says that Lancelot Shadow can use the chaos control without a chaos emerald, making him even superior to Shadow at the time, he didn't scalate to him, he was actually the better version at the time (I'm sure they made him like that cuz there's no chaos emeralds in the game, but they probably didn't think this through cuz they just made sonic more ridiculously powerful), this implies that Sonic can take a Shadow with a chaos emerald from black night forward with is just ridiculous to think about that his speed can transcend time (I mean we had sonic cd all this time along.. and in Generations his speed restored the stages, and that is just not a gameplay thing since Tails mentions it in a cutscene, now, Shadow does that too but I'm unsure if it's just a gameplay thing or not, if Omega said they are equal in Sonic Gens and if that's truth, that means he's also getting stronger overtime since Black Night, just like Sonic, altho he probably couldn't keep up that it appears
2. Shadow may had one W in Sonic Heroes:
Shadow had the green chaos emerald in Sonic Heroes while team Sonic had none, in the aftermatch of their fight, the next team Sonic cutscene is in Hang Castle where Sonic says "Shadow must have gone this way, this sure is the right way" implying he lost sight of team Shadow during the fight, Sonic's team could have been knocked out or Shadow could have used team chaos control to flee, maybe if he was losing idk 👀 (feel free to tell me if u think Shadow would flee from a fight or not, this is the only doubtful situation I can think of)
3. Some arguments in the favor of Shadow:
Shadow never took out his inhibitor rings to fight Sonic not even a single time (on screen). So there's that...
Plus, the only enemy he did that for was Mephiles in Sonic 06, but in Sonic Gens he didn't even need to do that (cuz of the Doom Powers), so the Doom Powers may actually give the character a boost, just like u get stronger in general by just having the Rinnegan in Naruto (sorry, it was the easiest example I can think of)
(Answering 2.) he did flee in SA2 in Prison Island, but I won't count that, different situation.
(About Lancelot and Shadow, mentioned in 1.) talking about Lancelot again, altho Shadow is probably superior to him nowadays (I mean, we never hear of his universe again, maybe he actually got powerful and is still superior to Shadow, who knows? but talking about the last time we see him on screen), I think is still pretty impressive being able to chaos control without emeralds, it's a feat nor even Shadow or Sonic came close to achieving yet, sure, Shadow can chaos snap, but we know that's not the same thing.
(Part 2 of Shadow and Lancelot) I just did think of this.. I.. wonder if Shadow can do the same thing if he take off the inhibitor rings.. hmmm.. still, Lancelot doesn't need to take them off to do that, so it's still impressive!
Jet the Hawk claps them both
No
Are you drunk lil bro
It just occurred to me that the only character with a positive record against Sonic is the guy who got killed by a fucking Thwomp.
In the end, if both were to tap into their full potentials…. Sonic comes out on top pretty much every time.
Shadow just didn't want to use his doom powers. If he did, he would definitely win against base sonic
Edit: Frontiers Sonic should still win against Shadow with his doom powers
Sonic Beats Shadow It’s literally far cry that how Powerful that Sonic Frontiers Is So Sonic Stomps Shadow
based opinon
@not an Opinion It’s Facts Buddy Go Play the Games
thats not what i meant but all right
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehogI mean he should beat him since we don't even know what current shadow is up to, he's been sideline for a long time. But sonic is the mc so can't really say much
You are literally Sonic
Shadow: I will win on equal terms or not at all.
Shadow: also ignoring the fact his skates are the reason they can fight on equal terms in the first place
Interested to know, why you didn't mention the inihibitor rings?
@@LittleMac5 I mean he didn't blow up, when he did it in 06😂
Also nice username, Punch-Out fun af
Because inhibitor rings dont have enough evidence to suggest it would cziose the gap. If sonic no difs shadow, what is the propf inhibitor rings would cIose that gap? Sonic will just beat no inhibitor rings shadow too.
The inhibitor rings would be a death sentence for shadow since whilst yes it gives him a massive boost it also robs him of his immortality since removing the rings for too long is one of the few things that will kill him
Also he doesn’t have that great feats with the rings removed anyways
@@LittleMac5 Gerald stated that in regards to how Shadow was at that point. With all the doom powers he had on top of the power he already had? Yeah, of course he'd blow up.
Not to say a similar thing wouldn't eventually happen normally, but it would probably be almost immediate with Doom Shadow.
In the original Generations, it wasn't supposed to the current Shadow that Sonic was fighting, it was SA2 Shadow.
False that is indeed the current shadow SA2 shadow didn't have the boost by that logic modern sonic would be equal to sa2 shadow which we all know is false
@@Codezer0xshinzu I know, but the dialogue is so weird between them two
most things in this video seems accurate but im sorry, sonic ''holding his own'' against the forces villains is hilarious. the guy got rekt. owned. molly whopped. bullied even. 6 months later after his supposed uncle iroh training arc in prison every enemy he did fight from that og group required a whole boss fight while shadow needed one kick to get rid of his dupe. one that scaled directly to himself when it was created. it's also odd to just accept that sonic has more experience when shadow gens just proved the guy does his own shit in the background too. that all does become moot by frontiers scaling yes but before that it seemed a bit too heavy on the shadow downplay
@@LittleMac5 their first fight infinite treated sonic like a ragdoll, the second fight he beat him in a boss fight only for infinite to go ultra shaggy with the ''that wasn't even 0.001% of my power'' and no diff him in the cutscene afterwards, and finally they'd have all been turned to dust if the rookie didn't happen to have a phantom ruby prototype on him and infinite in his infinite wisdom didn't decide to throw a second sun. also when was shadow afraid of infinite? this isn't a denial i haven't played forces in ages so i don't recall that
@@raygrossman4504
Shadow stated to Sonic he doesn't believe they'll win this war bc of infinite. It was in dialogue from the game.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 is that the cutscene where shadow says "as it stands there's no way we can win this?" And sonic going "of course we can! We just haven't figured that part out yet?" If it is, that is not fear, that is Shadow being practical and Sonic being optimistic, a rare true to their character interaction for Forces.
Sonic prior to the time skip did briefly hold his own in a 1v5 - with one of those fighters being infinite himself
Obviously sonic stood no chance of being victorious but it’s still impressive to mention regardless
@@LittleMac5 i ain't sayin' sonic isn't impressive or trying to downplay the dude, because in that six months he obviously did get stronger which infinite obviously did notice. that increase in strength still amounted to nothing in that fight tho. as for shadow he was working with Rouge during that game to find the source of Infinite's power, that's how they learned about it in the first place. sonic was fighting and losing but still getting stronger while shadow was being tactical which both contributed to the victory at the end of the game
The real pain in the ass thing about this debate is that not only does Shadow have multiple Chaos powers but also that he is limited by his Inhibitor Rings to keep him from tiring himself out. The fact that he’s being held back is an argument people would bring up but it’s hard to agree with considering there’s clearly more focus on Sonic in the games which just adds more fuel to the fire in this debate as while we know Shadow is powerful, it’s hard to reach a definitive answer when we’ve see Sonic pull crazy stuff like outrunning a growing black hole for around 30 seconds while the games haven’t shown Shadow pulling off anything on that level.
It’s basically a debate on what you know of one character vs speculations on another. I honestly don’t see us ever getting a definitive answer, which is just how Sega roles with the Sonic series. I mean, we’ll all be dead before they even give us an actual origin to what the heck the Chaos Emeralds are, so I honestly find the true answer to this debate as mute. Doesn’t mean it isn’t fun to come back to ever now and again.
the fact that THE defining game for one of the two characters in the TITLE of the video only gets less than 20 seconds of screen time shows me just how biased this video was before you even started working on it
Which game? 🤔 - also sonic has wayyyy more games than Shadow so that was an inevitable outcome anyways?
XD
If you're reffering to Shadow '05, that's an extremely out-dated game, the feats have all been surpassed and it is now irrelevant in powerscaling
Honestly sonic is faster, but shadow is without a doubt stronger in my opinion.
The Ultimate Lifeform vs The Undefeatable One (The Undefeatable One is called that way for a reason)
I love that comparison
nobody calls sonic that.
No one calls sonic that
@southerncoastproductions7587 I do in case it wasn't obvious, duh
@@Hugo-yz1vb U barely qualify as a person. Don't give yourself that credit rat
3:35
I don't think the Emeralds work like that, passively amping characters just by them being in their possession. And there's certainly no indication that Silver or Shadow were powered up. It just gives them access to Chaos abilities provided the user knows how to use them.
In my vision and opinion, Shadow wins this fight, he is the Ultimate Lifeform after all.
Shadow has the chaos powers and is physically stronger than Sonic, the only thing Shadow doesn't have is the super speed that Sonic has.
Sonic is stronger with his speed, Shadow is just stronger and can use his chaos powers such as chaos control that requires a chaos emerald, chaos snap ( short teleportation ) for agility and combat, and other chaos powers.
Well, just by watching Shadow fight against the black arms in Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow has combat experience, even Maria asks Shadow when did he learn to fight the way he did. Although Sonic has experience in combat, so does Shadow.
I know that in SA2 Shadow and Sonic get exhausted fighting each other and Shadow probbably have never found a chalenge before, but if Shadow had the intention to kill Sonic, he would kill him, but he didn't wanted to do that because of the way he is, regardless his veangeful and hatred feeling for Maria's death, and his mind being manipulated by Gerald, Shadow has a pure heart, he saved Rouge when he could take those chaos emeralds and leave without her. Shadow is soft, kind.
To be honest, Shadow only lost to Sonic in Sonic X Shadow Generations because he let him win, It would be too unfair for Shadow to use those doom chaos powers, although it would hurt Sonic a lot more. Also, Shadow tricking Sonic with the fake emerald was a smart move to acomplish his plans without interruptions.
I'd say Shadow got a lot stronger over the time just like Sonic. In my vision, Shadow is superior than Sonic, in terms of strenght and power, but not faster than Sonic. Well, this is my opinion and I know I will never change this.
Its Shadow. Sonic usually wins by luck or certain circumstances
They are equals buddy lol
Bruh, Sonic has done some absurd things in Frontiers, and if Shadow can still beat him, it will be much more for Sega.Wanting to match the characters rather than the power of shadow itself.
What do Shadow fans call this? Oh yeah, plot armor.
Shadow I think is smarter than Sonic but when it comes to raw power or speed Sonic has him beat, tricking Sonic with a fake emerald is hella funny to think upon.
Here’s one weird thing about comparing Doom Morph to Sonic already being able to run on water. The fight is between Frontiers Sonic and Generations Shadow. Frontiers Sonic isn’t never ran on water. If he was, we would’ve been able to do so and it likely would’ve been really helpful tbh. But he sinks.
It’s also pretty clear that the cyber abilities are stronger because they literally are better oriented towards combat, while Shadow’s powers give him a better edge on traversal. He literally becomes better capable of traversing the land, sea and sky with Morph, Surf and Wings and accesses areas otherwise impossible with Spear and Blast. Ironically, Shadow probably would’ve prospered a lot more than Sonic in exploring the open zones of the Starfall Islands (if he at least had the cyloop of course to access puzzles). While Sonic’s cyber powers, besides the cyloop never gave him access to more areas, it was only his standard hedgehog powers he relied on for traversal.
Also I wanna point out that the thing you said about Silver getting amped by the blue chaos emerald during his second encounter with Sonic. He’s not. Neither the gameplay nor the story support that. Until they cast chaos control or collect them all to achieve their super form, all they’re holding are glowing rocks.
You nailed it on the head that Sonic's cyber powers just far outstrip anything Shadow has. Neither his natural chaos abilities (which Sonic has always been able to overcome regardless), nor even his best Doom powers come close.
Doom spear pales in comparison to Sonic's projectile attacks. Doom blast looks pitiful compared to some of the rush attacks Frontier Sonic can do once he starts going all out, with Sonic being so fast that he can leave dozens of after images at once while attacking, which can even deal physical blows of their own. Sonic's cyloop also is pretty much just free eats if he gets it off, with even its weaker variants being able to completely immobilize foes for extended periods of time, and in the case of Super Sonic, can even materialize physical restraints that can completely paralyze the titans.
One of the big things that Shadow always had over Sonic is that his chaos powers grant him an insane amount of versatility that allowed him to compete with Sonic even when the stat matchup was relative between them. But now, Sonic has even MORE versatility than he does, when counting the cyber powers, and the disparity in their stats is just crazy.
And the cherry on top is that Sonic DOES still have access to chaos powers- at the very least, chaos control, if he really needs it. So Shadow's biggest strength isn't even an advantage if it comes down to it unless he's the only one with an emerald on hand, which is rarely the case.
In practice, Shadow activates chaos control, Sonic activates chaos control to match him, then whoops his ass in what is essentially zero time, to an outside observer.
To be fair, the Doom Wings are very much the "equivalent" of an unique Super form for Shadow.
By the way, I think for the 2000s Sonic games you should check the Japanese scripts instead of the English ones, considering the JP scripts were written first.
Well if you scale the 2 based on what happens with games, you could compare how they do on chaos island. Sonic gets stronger the more cyber curruption he takes on and depending on if you talk to tails or not he does it 3 times. Sonic has to hit the basic Chaos Island enemies multiply times to beat them, while doom power amped Shadow from generations (if you call it an amp) can casually destroy those enemies in 1 hit. If you wanna use that to up scale Shadow sure, but that's honestly just a game mechanic thing if you ask me. I do 100% believe Sonic in Frontiers is stronger. But just like Shadow, he looses that power as it was only temporary for the story. So in all honestly they are probably gonna be Iimplied equal all the time.
To those who says Shadow with the inhibitor rings off would be stronger, he can't take them off as Gerald in generations says that Shadow has gotten so strong that he'd probably explode if he did. Since it's Gerald I'd take his word on this.
This is just an opinion on things, but all this says is shadow in generations with doom abilities might've been stronger than Sonic.
I'd still take the ability to stop time over super speed.
I think there's some things you neglect to mention.
Shadow has been wearing limiters almost 90% of the series and he's able to keep up with and fight evenly with Sonic. And you speak on Shadow's Doom abilities as if they are completely useless when those are just in-game mechanics. In Generations, Gerald says Shadow is growing stronger with each power he receives which is all part of Black Doom's original design to make him perfect. In Generations, Doom-amp Shadow is shown to defeat enemies that required Sonic and himself to turn Super using the Chaos Emeralds such as Metal Overlord, and he even defeated Neo Black Doom when the preceding form Devil Doom, Shadow needed to go Super to defeat. The same Black Doom who wasn't fully revived yet but was capable of manipulating the white space, the dimension of the Time Eater, and used it to revive dead Super-level foes.
And in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic did not get stronger with his Cyber corruption abilities, he only learned new techniques. It isn't until Master King helps him harness the Cyber corruption and it is only shown to boost his power while he's Super Sonic. Otherwise, the Titans moped base Sonic up completely.
The titans are stated to be the most powerful Sonic bosses in the series, which means they scale beyond bosses like Team Eater and Dark Gaia, also Base Modern Sonic was able to easily beat Perfect Chaos in his base which required Super Sonic beforehand. Shadow's doom abilities are kinda useless in this fight as they are mostly meant for him to move around or fight specific enemies, like the doom spear is literally just a chaos spear but you throw out several.
Shadow may only win if he takes off his inhibitor rings
Sonic has been able to run on water in base form since Sonic 3.
If that’s the case he mysteriously forgot that ability for many years 😂
Tbh shadow at his full power would always allow him to contend with sonic except in 1 scenario. Only if he removes his inhibitor rings, which in every fight he has with sonic, he refuses to do. In 06, shadow was able to beat mephiles while he was amped by 2 chaos emeralds by removing his inhibitor rings so his inhibitor rings can give him soo much of a boost in power that it surpasses the power of 2 chaos emeralds. Sonic can't get a boost in power like that. Only in frontiers could sonic actually rival that kind of power only in his super form.
Just imagine the power of 2/7ths of a super form. Do a little bit power scaling and you'll see how much it is. Basically it's the like kaioken but with the flaws of SSJ3.
Although shadow will lose against SS2 sonic/cyber sonic regardless since super sonic couldn't even damage the end in his super form and had to go all out to defeat the end. Shadow will not be able to replicate that kind of power.
9:05 You forgot that Sonic needs to wait for the bosses to come down
And only shadow stays on the ceiling and throws Doom spear
And Doom shadow is invincible to normal attacks
For me Sonic only wins because he has the cyber super sonic form
I’m pretty sure Sonic lost his cyber space abilities since he used all his cyber energy to destroy The End as Super Sonic Cyber.
I think this matchup could really go either way, depending on the circumstances. (in Shadow’s defense, we’ve never seen him fight sonic without the inhibitor rings.)
The comics makes this even harder. They have a squabble early on and Shadow gets the edge but neither were trying their hardest.
They also rarely fight the same opponents. Closest we get is Metal Sonic. Shadow kinda loses because Metal is retreating with Eggman.
Also Shadow not being able to break free in Forces was not due to power but Shadow's mental hang ups. Also Sonic escaping Null space was because he and the avatar worked together. It wasn't Sonic by himself. It's hard to give Sonic any solo wins because after Sonic is freed he and the avatar work togetherness most of the game. Also as it's been established team work and friendship in the Sonic verse amps your power dramatically.
It was never stated sonic couldn't do it on his own and sonic has beated the clones null space is no problem
@@Dripichigo-m7j Dr Eggman- What! It’s impossible to escape from the phantom ruby’s null space!
Sonic- *Maybe by myself but I had a little help from my friend* . Something you wouldn’t understand since you don’t have any friends.
Sonic outright states that he wouldn’t have been able to escape null space by himself. If you still don’t believe me watch the cutscene right after Sonic escapes from Null Space
@@_NormalEditor null space infinite, infinite divided by two is still infinite
Why is the null space argument used when the double boost is withe sonic and someone who can't even boost(if it he was with someone like knuckles, I'd understand).
I don't think forces should ever be used in powerscaling because it basically made everyone useless and made everyone look weaker than classic sonic. CLASSIC SONIC, sonic at his weakest and somehow weaker than the avatar.
@@_NormalEditor dude that was Was Eggman saying it was impossible sonic Defeated the clones and infinite so Null Space is child's play and the blue boy was escaped a void where space time dosen't even exist also I don't know if the terms you don't have friends was at Me and also the blue boy could of been joking
One thing I'd like to note with Shadow is that in Shadow generations it's said that Doom wing Shadow was so strong that if he removed his wrist rings it would be dangerous and he could explode. It's a bummer because Shadow with Doom wings, Super form, and no wrists rings combined could have been really powerful for Shadow.
I mean,considering the Súper form's Invulnerability,Maybe you could argue In Súper Shadow Could Survive Using his Doom Powers and taking his inhibitors off
@@gabrielmachado1247thats only a hypothetical tho since shadow still dies in sonic adventure 2
@@hackerninjaexe5791 that Happened because It was his first Time Going super,and he got tired,its implied in Shadow the Hedgehog that When he clashed Down on earth he hit the Planet as Súper Shadow,and that is what allowed him to survive,and then a Eggman robot Found him,and Got him into Eggman's bases,then he got Healed,then heroes happened
@ he still technically got tired and damaged during that tho and that the same would have happened to sonic so shadow going super “the first time” wouldn’t matter
So basically him going super having doom powers while having his rings removed would just be too much for him to handle regardless
Ehhh, I'm sure Shadow will catch up a couple games from now assuming SEGA decides his popularity is ascendant enough for him to get deuteragonist status back.
Not gonna watch the video yet because I haven't started Shadow Gens yet, but the answer is eternally Shadow. This is one of those ideas that can't even change without overhauling things on a core. Shadow was literally based on Sonic, which means he will AT LEAST by default always match him. Shadow's growth doesn't have a cap either, so going by simple logic and reasoning this means Shadow is and always will be stronger than Sonic. Shadow isn't Vegeta; he can actually do anything his rival can do, plus some. Shadow is legitimately just a suppressed Super Sonic in his base form. Having more screentime and even new feats to go with that does not automatically make a character stronger, it just makes the character have more accomplishments under their name on a quantitative basis. There is nothing saying Shadow can't replicate those feats and even do them better than Sonic. The screentime (fueled by writer bias) argument has never been valid. It only works if the other character is in someway implied in story to be slacking in their off-screen presence.
Sounds Like Someone is Trying to Nerf Sonic to make Shadow Win and Wdym Shadow is not Vegeta you do know they have the same attitude
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Cope harder. Shadow literally never uses his full set of powers, both WITH and WITHOUT the inhibitor rings, what are you talking about. I don't wanna hear Sonic fanboys talk about "nerfs". Shadow isn't like Vegeta. Sharing a single characteristic, which you're wrong about, doesn't make two characters the same. I'll spare using your logic against you.
@@windy3935 lmao you forgot that Inhibitor Rings Will Drain His Energy It’s comparable to Kaioken and Sonic Can Easily Outrun Shadow and Wait for Shadow to get Exhausted So No that’s Ain’t Happening And You even Forgot that Sonic and Shadow Are comparable To Goku and Vegeta So Using that Logic but won’t work on it So Cope About it so nice try and cope all of that
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Stupid of you to assume I would forget that. Literally has no bearing on my point. Shadow is still nerfed and underpowered. Your argument about exhaustion narrowmindedly assumes Shadow can't finish him off in time, which I can directly counter with Shadow could do it. Shadow isn't comparable to Vegeta because of one characteristic. You literally have no argument and just making nonsensical emotional responses. So yes cope harder.
@@BlueSpeedySonicTheHedgehog Dumb of you to assume I would forget that. Literally has no bearing on my point. Shadow is still nerfed and underpowered. Your argument about exhaustion narrowmindedly assumes Shadow can't finish him off in time, which I can directly counter with Shadow could do it. Shadow isn't comparable to Vegeta because of one characteristic. You literally have no argument and just making nonsensical emotional responses. So yes cope harder.