Choose BEST Subwoofer for YOU - Thiele / Small Parameters Advanced Lesson
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- How do you choose the right speaker or subwoofer for your application? Well of course you have to know the size and power handling... but what do the rest of those numbers mean? These are the Thiele Small parameters and once you understand these speaker parameters you can pick the perfect subwoofer for YOU. Here's what Fs, Qts, Qms, Qes, Vas, SPL and the rest of the subwoofer specs mean!
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UPDATE: I was able to make the speaker anatomy video! I got an awesome cutaway subwoofer that shows all the inside components, check out the video here: ua-cam.com/video/XMTjFxpRADI/v-deo.html
Excellent work. Catching back up on the vids :)
CarAudioFabrication I'm trying to find replacementnwoofers for some home stereo speakers I built back in the 80's. They are a 12" 3 way design with 1.4 cu ft sealed enclosures. The original drivers worked very well after stuffing the boxes with fiberglass. F3 was around 30 hz. Not as low as I would like, but tight, accurate and warm. Can you recommend a replacement?
CarAudioFabrication could you do a video on how to find some thiele small parameter of a subwoofer that doesn’t come with any
@CarAudioFabrication
Hi,
Is there a way to predict therse, Parameters? I want to build a costum subwoofer with parts from the lord of bass or from some other place where i can get speakerparts. And now I don't know how to chose the right parts for my needs. The subwoofer is supposed to be for my home theatre. It should be a 15inch sub in a sealed box that plays down to 15 hz at 125db+
Maybe you can help me. I love you videos!
I wish my local shops were as knowledgeable as you
They are but they wont teach you thrir tricks causr no matter how much money you spend dey dont want yours sound as good or better than theirs
This video explains in 14min what it took me many years to understand through independent research, modeling designs, & hands on fabrication. Well done man!
Thanks for the kind words, that was my goal. Glad it helped!
@@CarAudioFabrication Thank god, finally a good video that explains all of this
So so good and detailed could not expect any better explanation to be very honest ❤️
This guy breaks down very technical concepts into something I can grasp. Very well done! I understood some of the TS parameters, but this video helped fill in many gaps.
If you could also give the reference values for an starting range reference inch sub !
PLEASE make more technical videos like this Mark!
I have been installing sound systems professionally for 5 years but still always learn something new when i watch your videos.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I've been installing since 1986, and I still learn new things from Mark, he keeps me up to date as well.
👍🏼👍🏼 dude the only way I can describe these videos it’s like the third time I took college algebra, and I was like.....ohhhhhhh, why couldn’t everyone explain it like that....
People charge for this type of information.....👍🏼👍🏼
Bravo Mark! I have been listening T/L speaker parameters explanations over the UA-cam channels, and you are the first one I encountered so far able to explain it in a simple lay man's term. Great job and thanks!
The smartest person on UA-cam, you and the guy who explains import and American muscle car stuff.
By far the best explanation of ts i have ever heard, very knowledgable 10/10
Diaphragm (I will not call it a cone in this case) acts as a piston, so when talking about effective cone area, it really doesn't matter if the diaphragm is actually a cone, or a flat circle, if the diameter is the same, Sd will be the same. Deeper cone will not move more air.
Other than that, very well made and very educational. Just to add one more thing - the unit of the Bl is not only Tm (which doesn't tell you that much, it's magnetic force x length of the wire), but also N/A - which actually equals to Tm, but the unit tells you what force you generate by a specified current applied. So 10Tm = 10N/A tells you that 1Amp of current through the coil will generate 10N of force (~1kg)
I prefer to describe BL and the amount of magnetic flux (B) affecting the number of turns (L) within the motor. On a SGLC motor topology some of the voice coil will likely be outside of the fringe field.
Though I've learned most of the anatomy of a speaker by now, an in depth video would definitely be something that I could have used back when I first got into this stuff. I think it's a great idea.
Best explanation I've ever heard for T/S params. Well done and thank you.
Totally loved nerding out to this video! Always enjoy your content!
Thank you ... I have been trying to find a way to educate myself on how best to maximize my quality-$$$ ratio and your videos are JUST what the doctor ordered!
Very impressed with your knowledge of all these terms. I've punched in a lot of these numbers to make custom enclosures and only knew the definition of about half of them. it's nice to get into the weeds sometimes.
I remember my very first enclosure that was tuned to the subwoofers based on the T/S specs. It was a 3.87 ft³ (after speaker volume subtracted) trapezoidal shaped sealed enclosure for a trio of JL Audio 12W6 dual 6ohm voicecoils...the original monsters that set the stage for high end bass. I made 5 sides out of 1" MDF and the top was an original straight JL Audio Triplate fiberglass gelcoat holder designed for three 12W6 subs. Man....that was 25 years ago. Had that running 100% parallel into a 1ohm load, bridged to ½ ohm mono to a Soundstream Reference 10.0 Class A monster. Such clean tight bass from that combo. The entire box was made using high end 3" heavy duty screws. The speakers were bolted with Nylock nuts into the Triplate, which was mounted using epoxied threaded inserts for ease of disassembly for easy access to change the black light or wiring configuration. What a freaking MONSTER box....lol. Sanded, prepped and painted in a body shop with PPG metallic blue and clear coat, and matte titanium white inside. I used a jigsaw and router to make the JL Audio logo...I cut into the front, and backed it with 1" plexiglass on the inside like a plug door and added a black light inside on a toggle switch. I was so super happy when I turned the light on the first time...seeing that JL light up in blacklight purple gave me straight goosebumps....glad I saw it through 100% to the end.
A true monster that looked as good as it sounded, and weighed about 250 pounds....lol
Thanks Mark, I learn a lot from your vids.
Oh dude, I'm sooo glad I found your channel! Thanks for making all these vids, I'm sure people eat em up!
Your videos are very well done. Thank you for all the content!
Excellent video man as usual. Thank you for explaining these terms and measures in precise detail.
I details that I don't understand are actually new things to be learned, not feared.
Any video you want to do, DO IT! Coz we all know it's gonna be loaded full of awesome tips, tricks and knowledge.
Max Respect To C.A.F!
I recently made a purchase with Crutchfield combine watching your videos has help me a lot on determining which direction to go with originally I was going to use all the equipment but now they with technology so advanced and I like to hide most of my systems like the amp so I end up purchasing around $2500 worth of equipment in my 2016 Ford transit cargo van I made A custom speaker box 10 inch W3 rocker Fosgate’s compact.
I was not expecting to spend a lot of money on my system but it’s all well worth it I’m about 70% done currently I’m looking forward to listening to my system.
Good job explaining all of that! When I first started my DIY speakers years ago, it took a long time before I had a working knowledge of the T/S parameters. I have LinearX's LEAP 5, (I replaced LMS with the Parts Express omni-mic) which will give you a real idea of the right box without ever building them. Too bad it works best on win X.P. so I might build another, lower form of computer to run that. LOL
Look up linearX LEAP!! I'll look at your other vids! :-)
this was alot to take in at first but was still very informitive. keep up the good work
Best explanation I've seen, well done.
Thanks for Making this one Mark it certainly helps.
Oh, Yes, very usefull video! Explained very clearly!
Very informative! Great video!
excellent video, *Very* informative!
Great video Mark! I would like to see a video of the anatomy of a subwoofer!
Excellent work!
Would love to see u do a video on the anatomy of a subwoofer! I learn so much watching ur videos! Keep up the great work. I even shared this video to Facebook so some of my friends can learn as well. Always wanted to know what those numbers in my manual meant. Thank u!
Fantastic Channel, real useful information.
I'm learning a lot watching these videos and this was another great lesson - BUT - tho I now know what all these acronyms stand for and what they measure on the speaker - I still don't know how to use them. I wish you explicitly tied it back to how to use these when selecting a speaker. Hopefully you made a video on that too. I'll keep watching your stuff and hopefully you cover that. Thanks Marc!
it all makes sense now, thanks 😀
I *am* a new viewer, and I will definitely watch the crossover video! I'd have to watch this video a few times to *really get an understanding of it, but this video alone has taught me more than the other hour or two of similar videos I have watched. Thank you, well done!
Glad you enjoyed it thanks for watching.
Thanks for the video Mark, very informative. I have one question though,
What T/S parameter is most helpful in calculating when the fumes will ignite?
great video mark, need more videos like that
Man, where were you when I was trying to figure all this out 25 years ago? LOL
Absolutely stellar video, Mark! This is going to help a lot of people get a head start in speaker design. :D
Awesome video dude!
Excellent vídeo. Got a subscriber in the first shot here.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🎉✔️
Great info and it was described in an easy to understand kinda way.
Thank you.
I believe the ts info should be the 1st thing any1 getting into car audio should learn.
😎👍👍
awesome break down on the topic.
great stuff keep it up!
Yes please more on the anatomy of a subwoofer!!!!
Spectacular video.
so I've subscribe to both you and Doug's UA-cam channels. I learn a lot more from you, but you have to admit Doug is a character. I describe him as Bam Margera of car audio. and by the way it does look like a kitchen. you even had silverware in the drawer
How can you dislike this video? Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Excelente video!! Me encantó. Saludos
Awrsome video sir!
Boy that’s a lot of terms to remember and understand!
Thank you very much! You had a lot of knowledge about speakers, thank for you your share, if you have time hoping you can help me count the air volume and how big the subwoofer should I make! I bought I from China! One more time thank you for sharing it helps me understand more what the manufacturer writes in the catalog about speakers and opens my Knowledge!
great video!
You should definitely do a video on the anatomy of a sub. Not many videos on that, and I'm sure people would like to see how their subs work
+S!CK3STBA$$ I think it would be a fun informative video
For sure. Maybe you could elaborate on how the AC current moves the voice coils. It makes sense that the current makes them move, but I'm confused as to how the magnets affect the voice coil in conjunction with the current. That would be helpful if you could explain that
S!CK3STBA$$ yea that would be helpful because I had no idea what he were talking about the whole time lol
*their
Dang, don't know how that one slipped lol. Thanks man
Wow what an excellent, Informative, digestible, technical and educational video! Finally someone demystified Speaker technical specifications. Does anyone have this information in a written format ie. a manual guild or better still a chart. The information is a must before making a sub woofer purchase. Would be a great time saver not having to create one myself.
Best explanation I’ve heard yet in T S. Nicely done! I’d really like to see a follow up video on how all these parameters are used for cab design and porting. Adding in differences in performance for cab depth at equal volume, (e.g. distance variations behind the woofer).
Thanks! This was very informative. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this for sometime. Not many explain these topics in an understandable way. At least if you, meaning I, don’t have an engineering background
Should’ve also asked what is the best equipment available to purchase for measuring T. S. when specifications are not available or the manufacturer specifications are questionable
this is wonderfull explanation, many thanks! and the REW software great too... I am yours :-)
Amazing channel. Would love to see you do some testing on results of one these type subs in a passenger footwell area, ultimately to see if an ideal front stage could have results worth while for small coupes and convertibles. Keep the vids coming!
that would be interesting, except that in a small coupe or convertible/ There isn't going to be room for it up front. In some of them there is barely enough room in the trunk area. I have a MKIII Cabriolet, so I have first hand experience trying to get quality sound in a small convertible. Loud is no problem, but with the top down, and moving at highway speeds even decent sound is hard to maintain.
Great job Mark! Please make the video about the anatomy of a subwoofer and try to include the difference in underhung verses overhung voice coils. Thank you for your time.
I love when you do these sorts of videos! I constantly postpone redoing my system just because I'm expecting you to teach me something new next week!
I do wish you had a handful of examples in the video though for using these parameters for selection (you're explanation examples like the spring were great). So for example, if we had limited space that will define the box size, can we use these details to select the sub for the box (and how so)? Or maybe you could have given some generic equipment/system specs and how those details and the Thiele parameters could be used to select your sub. Or maybe, here is the style of build you're going for (SQ for example) and how you'd best match your sub selection to that design using the Thiele parameters. Now I'm not even sure if my suggestions for examples are valid but I'm guessing you could have come up with something and worked in some plugs for Fosgate with an example or two (go go show sponsors!)
Thanks for much needed info. The only two parameters I look at when gauging the quality of a speaker is the Fs and frequency response. According to my knowledge about free resonance is the Tacoma Bridge (LOL) -- It's the frequency at which the subwoofer is most efficient. Then there's frequency response: how low can the sub can go, range of the midbass and tweeters. Stats say 20-20K hertz for human hearing, but some some sub can go as low as 15-18 hertz and Mariah Carey can hit notes beyond 20K.
Yesss, i want 3 jl audio w7 13.5 in my home, if i get a custom shop to make the box, what do you recommend me to use to make it work in my home?, amp wires, and the audio player?
Thanks for the info I do want more info on the anatomy of the subwoofer
Thank u for this
Great video
Mark, If you make a video explaining while showing the anatomy of a subwoofer, I will watch it and share it. Been into electronics from age 12, but am beginning to install car audio for others now. Please keep these videos coming; I've found nothing on UA-cam in my feeds more enriching.
Lots of good information! I also would like to see how you would put these parameters to use. Like which subwoofer would be better in a small cab of a truck vs in the trunk of a car. My main focus is in SQ. How to be an audiophile...in a car... with a beer budget. Thanks for all your great videos! (yes, I have watched them ALL!)
Awesome video as always Mark! It would have been great, though, to see a few more things like EBP and MFF. Also efficiency above all could use more explanation because low efficiency subs aren't bad, it depends on application. Hoffman's Iron law would be a great topic for a future video.
Great video keep on going.
I was like 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯😂🤣😂🤣
Thank for the video mark these help me understand a lot next I would like to see and it will help a lot of us bass heads out here is the what is an epicenter and how it affects subwoofers because the fs of the speaker is 38hz and the epicenter chip is 33hz but we want to listen to decaf and in one of your vids you said that that is the lowest that the speaker can go so when can we apply an epicenter and what is the sweep and wide settings and also how to tune it right with the mono block
You have a great knowledge of car audio. I'm in the process of putting a system together and wanted to know what you thought. I little background. My brother bought a couple of orion 12 inch subs with an orion ported enclosure tuned to 35hz I think. He can't use the box as his truck doesn't have enough room. Also I'm buying his old 12" dual voice coil 4 ohm Alpine type R's and the orion box since I have a suburban and plenty of room. He's also selling me his 1000 watt alpine monoblock. Last week we installed a new Kenwood head unit that features time alignment and crossovers. we used jacketed 16 ga wire. It also has a 13 band eq a lot of other features I don't really understand. I also bought 2 new alpine 6.5 door speakers. We haven't installed the amp and subs yet. I'm going to put the 6.5's in the back doors and buy the alpine component speakers for the front. I will be purchasing a alpine 4 channel amp for the door speakers and probably JL power cable install kits for the amps. My main question is do you think the type r's will sound good in the orion box? It's a really nice box. I think it's plexiglass. So that's the layout of the system and I listen to a lot of different kinds of music. I just want the quality of the sound to be superior. More so than the total output. I also used some 3m underlining and sound dampening spray in my jeep that I sold. I applied it to the inside of the sub box and behind the door speakers. It really cleaned up the sound and made the bass very rich and deep. I probably go with some dynamat this time. So, what do you think? Thanks in advance for your expert opinion.
I've measured the TS parameters for a car audio woofer and found that they were different than the manufacture's supplied specifications. I'm guessing those specifications came from a prototype measured before mass production. They were also measurably different between two woofers never re-coned off the same manufacturing run. Do you ever measure your woofers before building important enclosures?
me encanto el vídeo, los sigo hace tiempo material muy útil. y me gustaría el vídeo sobre la anatomía del subwoofer saludos desde Córdoba Argentina
Have you got a video about 4th Gen Camaro/Firebird build? Trying to wrap my thoughts around a good 10 inch subwoofer for a sealed encloser something around .75 to .80 cubic feet.
Hi Mark. I didn't see a video around sub box types. I'm curious when would someone want to build a TLine vs ported vs bandpass vs sealed vs etc etc.
thank you sir
I think ur a legend man can u tell me what sub box would be amazing meaning setting off alarm for a tundra double cab lol the back seat is so hard to get subs there was looking into stealth box from jl but heard that when u put allot of power to them they tend to burn out please help design a custom box for this truck or give me some advice I’m going crazy lol
Does box and port tune determine what Hz will we lisen?Should speaker Fs and box and port should have similar frequency?
Love to see anatomy of the sub bring it up mark.....
Hey... I just starting watching ur vidz and wanna say keep up the good job! Can u help me figure out the best way to go for subs in a 99 accord v6 coupe? I would appreciate it.
very educational
Very knowledgeable ! Any ideas for a box for 2 JL Audio W7 12s? I NEED IDEAS .! Who better then mark
I would like to see you touch on EBP = efficiency bandwidth product some time, and how it compares to Qts.
Well, as im moving towards your videos i just cant stop :D so i came up with a question that i think is quite important, do you think that it is possible to make a system that covers as much Frequency as possible? Like there wont be a big gap between bass and mids or highs and mids?
So I always wondered about SPL... Usually it is db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter. Is there a particular freq this is done at?
hey man I have been trying to get a low shaking bass not a high bass but low and shaking any glues
Awesome intro into ts parameters! Do you ever replace a cone or surround in your subs/speakers?
You should do a video on how to wire up active systems, like +8 speakers and do subwoofer setups for SQ, like Infinite baffles and such, to many spl Ported Boxes, so little SQ systems
do you have a video to help me understand THD from the amplifier? I think I can understand it if it came from you.
What in your opinion, is the best enclosure for an '11 Silverado crew cab?
Can u do a tundra double cab sub box that can fit 4 shallow jl speakers
Question please: If I have to choose four (4) T/S parameters to compare how close 2 woofers perform, what will these be? (I know these are rules of thumb, but I would still like to know.) Thanks.
What would you put in a 2010 chevy cobalt?
What's a good website to see or get the wiring diagram for my vehicle I have an infinity Q70
killer this going to help a lot . I have a older subwoofer that I can't find enclosure specs on it's a mac audio maximus reference 12.
PARTS EXPRESS sells test equipment for that...call tech support
Hey I got one Rockford fosgate p2d2 12inch 2 ohm 400w sub,what's the best amp to use ....I'm new inn this and need some help thanks
I have a 1960 Rambler cross-country Station Wagon, I'm running JL Audio 4xc2650 with the Rd400/4 with JL Audio's RD 500/1 ....what sub should I run? Confused!
@caraudiofabrication I have been watching a lot of your videos and you are awesome. I am in need of your help. I purchased and had installed a Kicker VSS system for my 2017 RAM 1500 quad cab. I got the soundstage with the sub and the DSP amp for the door speakers. I spent a lot of money on it as I wanted the closest to factored look possible. I also had JBL 6x9 doors installed. I am so unhappy with this. I had more bass with pure factory. What I was wondering is if you think it's possible to replace the 10in square sub which I believe to be an single 4 ohm L3 with an single 4 ohm L7? Also would placing some poly in the box help? I also want to ditch the JBL doors. What would you do? Do you have any experience with the Kicker VSS systems?
So if I buy a kicker comp Q with a 39hz FS and put it into a custom box tuned to 32-34hz.... Will it hit the low lows? Because that's my current plan.... But I still have time to change the sub
Anatomy of a SUBWOOFER would be COOL!
Looking at 10" thin subs for my truck, stuck between the Solo-Baric L7, the Fosgate shown in this video, and the JL 10TW3-D4's. All good quality. Have used L7's for SPL, JL's always sound good, and that Fosgate is beefy and looks like it would pound, but have never used Fosgate subs and it's almost twice the price of the JL's and 3x's the price of the L7's. Wanting 3 of them, and wanting the best bang for my buck. Would all be in small sealed enclosures, any recommendations? 2020 Toyota Tundra.
I have a 2004 G35 sedan with 6 1/2 speakers ...what size xtc baffles should i put in because theirs 2 different kind, large frame and small frame...
I’m looking to run 2 shallow mount subs 200rms dual 2ohm what amps would you suggest?