The 146 runs an efficient schedule to get an hourly service out of 1 bus. Extending the route to Biggin Hill would add 30 minutes to the round trip time, meaning either reducing the frequency to 90 minutes, or running more buses. You could viably have 3 buses interworking the 146 and R8, running Bromley > Biggin Hill > Orpington > Biggin Hill > Bromley on a 3-hour cycle, giving an hourly service on each route and a half-hourly service between Downe and Biggin Hill, but that seems like overkill for the very low passenger numbers. A village like that in Not London would be lucky to get 3 or 4 buses a day, at best!
Agreed on the first point, the 146 I got also happened to be 15 mins late arriving to Downe and the drivers were really flooring it to keep to schedule. I think the R8 going to hourly might be more preferable than the 146 going to Biggin Hill, but might mean excess stand time at each time! (as extra bus would be necessary) Thanks for your comment :)
May I add that the 146 also serves Hayes school which is one of the highest achieving schools in SE London. My brother actually went there for sixth form and got all A's.
I think that’s been binned but it was discussed about 20 years ago IIRC. No point given an increase in frequency on the 464 would do more than enough to cater for any increase in demand (remains to be seen how they’ll navigate Saltbox though)
Thanks for covering this delightful route. Growing up around Sevenoaks, this was not unfamiliar territory, and I remember double-deck RTs on the 146 which ran, I'm sure, more often than half-hourly. For the present, I would have thought that more frequent buses would generate more passengers. It is great though that the timetable is from 6am to nearly midnight. Maybe better, though, to increase the R8 to hourly and have it connect reasonably with the 146. I know that TfL are probably wrestling with the practicalities of staff schedules and how to get quarts out of pint-pots, but this is an era when we need to get people out of cars and into public transport, and frequency is a key generator of custom - even on rural routes. And for individual passengers, their travel needs are mostly the same whether they live on an urban estate or in a cottage down a lane. What I'd really like is for TfL to use the bus numbering system to give an idea of frequency - like the 600 series are generally school buses. So maybe 500s for hourly, 400s for half-hourly, 300s for quarter-hourly etc.. I'm not sure that the letter prefixes (R etc.) have ever stood for anything useful! But to look at a bus map, or the list of route numbers on a bus stop flag, and to be able to see immediately which buses are most likely to come soon, would make bus travel a lot easier and more popular.
@@ricktownend9144 Yeah I’d agree re the R8, I’ll be reviewing it in the future but an hourly frequency might be slightly better. Granted the R2 which always seems rather empty does Orpington to Biggin Hill a lot more directly than the R8, but I suppose it’s not all about end to end journeys. Interesting about the 146, I suspect they were the shorts to Keston and Bromley? Bus there was also a split between the 146 and 146A, obviously most of the original 146 is now part of the 246 to Westerham Hill. Agree on numbering being used to signify frequency although quite a lot of the less frequent routes are actually more recent additions (327, 347, 375, 389, 399) so are obviously placed as higher numbers based on how new they are whereas the 146 goes back almost a decade! Thanks for your insightful take on this :)
Another little route to add to my list of ones you do a video on - going to do all of these just because I can really... Also, love how the shot of the red car on the corner shows it has a parking ticket
The 146 runs an efficient schedule to get an hourly service out of 1 bus. Extending the route to Biggin Hill would add 30 minutes to the round trip time, meaning either reducing the frequency to 90 minutes, or running more buses. You could viably have 3 buses interworking the 146 and R8, running Bromley > Biggin Hill > Orpington > Biggin Hill > Bromley on a 3-hour cycle, giving an hourly service on each route and a half-hourly service between Downe and Biggin Hill, but that seems like overkill for the very low passenger numbers. A village like that in Not London would be lucky to get 3 or 4 buses a day, at best!
Agreed on the first point, the 146 I got also happened to be 15 mins late arriving to Downe and the drivers were really flooring it to keep to schedule.
I think the R8 going to hourly might be more preferable than the 146 going to Biggin Hill, but might mean excess stand time at each time! (as extra bus would be necessary) Thanks for your comment :)
May I add that the 146 also serves Hayes school which is one of the highest achieving schools in SE London. My brother actually went there for sixth form and got all A's.
Congratulations to him! Yeah it does go past Hayes School on the way down to Keston
This was one of the first LT bus route Awarded om competitive tender. When Crystal's won the route in the 80s
@@johnrafferty8087 really? What happened to Crystals by the way. Noticed that one of their Solos I believe off the B14 or R6 is now preserved.
There is a proposal to push the tramway on from New Addington to Biggin Hill Valley. As always it's a question of money.
I think that’s been binned but it was discussed about 20 years ago IIRC. No point given an increase in frequency on the 464 would do more than enough to cater for any increase in demand (remains to be seen how they’ll navigate Saltbox though)
Thanks for covering this delightful route. Growing up around Sevenoaks, this was not unfamiliar territory, and I remember double-deck RTs on the 146 which ran, I'm sure, more often than half-hourly. For the present, I would have thought that more frequent buses would generate more passengers. It is great though that the timetable is from 6am to nearly midnight.
Maybe better, though, to increase the R8 to hourly and have it connect reasonably with the 146. I know that TfL are probably wrestling with the practicalities of staff schedules and how to get quarts out of pint-pots, but this is an era when we need to get people out of cars and into public transport, and frequency is a key generator of custom - even on rural routes. And for individual passengers, their travel needs are mostly the same whether they live on an urban estate or in a cottage down a lane.
What I'd really like is for TfL to use the bus numbering system to give an idea of frequency - like the 600 series are generally school buses. So maybe 500s for hourly, 400s for half-hourly, 300s for quarter-hourly etc.. I'm not sure that the letter prefixes (R etc.) have ever stood for anything useful! But to look at a bus map, or the list of route numbers on a bus stop flag, and to be able to see immediately which buses are most likely to come soon, would make bus travel a lot easier and more popular.
@@ricktownend9144 Yeah I’d agree re the R8, I’ll be reviewing it in the future but an hourly frequency might be slightly better. Granted the R2 which always seems rather empty does Orpington to Biggin Hill a lot more directly than the R8, but I suppose it’s not all about end to end journeys.
Interesting about the 146, I suspect they were the shorts to Keston and Bromley? Bus there was also a split between the 146 and 146A, obviously most of the original 146 is now part of the 246 to Westerham Hill.
Agree on numbering being used to signify frequency although quite a lot of the less frequent routes are actually more recent additions (327, 347, 375, 389, 399) so are obviously placed as higher numbers based on how new they are whereas the 146 goes back almost a decade!
Thanks for your insightful take on this :)
Another little route to add to my list of ones you do a video on - going to do all of these just because I can really...
Also, love how the shot of the red car on the corner shows it has a parking ticket
Oh I didn’t notice that! Glad I inspired you to do the 146 though!
I literally did this the other day
Did you? What did you think
@@somenorthlondoner Very beautiful place, absolutely nothing to do