I have a 10 year old petrol car. I do less than 50 miles a WEEK, I put petrol in my tank about every 6 to 8 weeks... just how is spending £30,000 on an EV going to save me money?
Where have you seen an EV for £30,000? I won’t buy an EV Apparently there isn’t enough chemicals in the world for the batteries to supply the coming demand? 😮
Yes you do inderectly because they are funded by Governments. We dont vote for the heads of big tec, AI or the oil corporations, sovereign wealth funds, either, and they are the ones who really control the worlds economy.
It doesn't matter which Party for government you voted for; they ALL have the same policy. So, no, there wasn't a Democratic option to vote against it.
@@coffinman5007 get a used EV. They're worthless and cost next to nothing to buy and much cheaper than an equivalent age and mileage ICE car, as they have depreciated like dead fish and they also cost 8 times cheaper to fuel than a mechanical piston engined car, 1000 miles for £14 on Octopus energy Intelligent Go tariff.
@@coffinman5007 Keep telling yourself that. I am no EV evangelist BTW, I run a Hybrid and my dream car is a Ferrarri 812. I also know that EVs aren't that bad and have their place.
Here in Ireland, admittedly a very small market, but still within the EU, we have had a Green minister for transport for the whole of the current government term. That’s almost 4 years. Right from the start, this government has been actively narrowing roads and tightening junctions, removing filter lanes and merging lanes, replacing yield signs with stop signs, changing roundabouts for traffic lights and so on. This is in stark contrast to the previous 40 years, during which we have been widening roads, opening out junctions, creating filter lanes and merging lanes, using yield signs on swept junctions and roundabouts, all in an effort to avoid traffic coming to a full stop and having to start from a standstill. Over those 40 years, our road deaths have been falling consistently. Over the last 3 years they’ve been rising almost exponentially. Anyone care to guess why? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with all the road improvement works that have been undone, now, could it? Having slow and stop start vehicles share space with through traffic shouldn’t cause any conflict, right? Moving opposing lanes of traffic closer together should be fine, right? If the reasoning that has imposed this catastrophic policy on us is in favour of EVs, that’s all I need to know! Mr Ryan is an advocate of 15 minute cities and doesn’t approve of rural dwellers, other than essential agricultural workers. He’s in power because of an unfortunate political situation that developed, last time out and a coalition with his party was seen as the least worst option. He could collapse the government at any time, by simply voting against his coalition partners, so he can call the shots, despite only having a minuscule amount of public support. The country is overrun with unused cycle lanes and greenways, because of this and thanks to our weather, typically wet and windy most of the year, they will continue to be mostly unused. They work well in urban areas, where the buildings provide some shelter from wind and the distances to be covered are small. Very few people are keen on cycling between cities, however. The weeds are already growing on most of those, leading to chemicals having to be used, to keep them open. Green my ass!
recently in my small town. in southwest lower Michigan, US. they started do similar crap, took better flowing 4 lane roads and made them 2 lane with a center turn lane and NEVER USED WASTE OF SPACE bike paths on both sides? WTF? the center turn lane is also never used (hardly) on this road, because its only homes. since this change traffic flow rate just crashed, now if you stuck behind someone slow, no way to pass. and when busy, one lane per side just don't work. they did the name thing on a few other roads throughout this area... all any of it did was make everything WORSE.
Spot on Duncan! I was back in the UK last month and was stunned how difficult it has become to drive over there. The camera warnings are continuous, the signage is simply overwhelming and the 20 Zones are everywhere. I tried, really tried to observe all limits etc. but it’s impossible to take it all in. The message is clear: we are taking your freedom and your money. The UK has become a land of ‘boiling frogs’.
Whenever you can't understand what's going, start with the outcome, assume it's intentional, and infer the motive. Let's be clear, the intention is not that everyone has an EV. The intention is that most people don't have a car at all.
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Most European/advanced economies are entirely dependent on personal transport. Not even the Tories would be stupid enough to close down the car industry. Seriously, forget the automakers, just the ancilliary industries are big enough to run a significant part of most countries' economies. It is no surprise that developed economies that have no auto industries work really, really hard to create them, and that any economy which aims to develop rapidly looks straight to automating. Japan, Korea and now China and India have all used the auto industry to develop their industrial base far more quickly than would be normal. This route to rapid development is now so well established that it has become a standard for economic development.
@@vociferon-heraldofthewinte7763 no I mean where is this written down in policy? Which overarching regulating body (or whomever) has cooked up this wicked plan and started to actually carry this out? That should not be mired in the usual conspiratorial clouds....
Maybe, but there also isn’t enough land to put all the solar panels and wind farms you’d need for an EV transition either. Nor is there enough mines for all the extra rare earth minerals you need for them and the transformers and the EV batteries themselves.
Im 54 and enjoyed 35 years of motoring so far and feel sorry for the young having to own EV's in the future. I am definitely not buying an ev in the future, i would rather have no car at all, and the goverment can shove their ev's where the sun don't shine. Good things don't last forever. Enjoy petrol/diesel while you can folks.
Totally agree. I’m the same age as you. Just ordered a gti 8.5 for delivery in February. I will spend my hard earned cash where I want and not where the government want. Sad times ahead.
Im 56 and i have the exact same opinion as you do, over my dead body that i ever would by a vibrator on wheels! Why are there only stupid people working in the goverments! Petrolhead forever! 👍🤘✌️
Yes, I'll be using my horse to go 22 miles to the store and back to just buy groceries. No EV charge stations within 20 miles of here and we don't have enough power to hook up any more power outlets on our farm. So I'd have to go 20 miles and spend 2 hours doing nothing just to charge a vehicle? Insane! And how do I travel 6 hours in the winter when it is -10 degrees to go back and forth to work in the snow? It would be dead on the side of the road in a week. Vote for people that are living in OUR world.
@@Eco-m5m Yes. Such is the true cost of burning fossil fuels. On a large scale, taking into account their impact, they are not cheap, and we are fooling ourselves if we think they are.
The biggest problem with cars regardless of fuel type is that they are massively over priced, even if you halved the RRP’s they’re over priced! I personally wouldn’t spend the same monthly repayments that I do on my mortgage, on a car, whether you can afford it or not, it’s irresponsible.
@@reececollison5101 - I’m really not precious about what other people doing 🤷🏼♂️ If people want to go back to stopping at stations to put liquid in their cars, at super high tax rates, then so be it 🤣 Would be nice if they didn’t share their tailpipe pollution with everyone else enough 😬
My 15 year old BMW purchased for £4000 6 years ago, gets 60 mpg. same as your poxy hybrid and £21000 less coin. Keeping old cars running and not constantly buying new shite is way way greener. We are totally being mugged. Oh forgot to mention the 900 mile range as well.
Just buy a new or used ICE car in 2029 look after it and will last you 10 - 20 years +. If you are the same age as me and Ped then you just get an electric mobility scooter after 😂😂
If EVs were the 'answer' private buyers would be falling over themselves to purchase. The epic depreciation summarises it all. It ends this whole discussion.
Are private buyers falling over themselves to buy new petrol & diesel cars 🤔 What is the data on these? New car deprecation impacts all vehicles - whatever the fuel type, for the last 5+ decades
@@grandprix1337 they are the answer to some and not others. It depends on your situation/needs. I think the main reasons private sales are struggling are cost to buy new vs depreciation and the amount of misinformation out there scaring people off.
I totally agree that depreciation is an issue, but it also a great opportunity to purchase an ex lease for less than 50% of the original price. Let the leasing companies take the hit and get at high spec car which is cheap to run if you charge at home.
consider the plight of the caravan market. Currently it is virtually impossible to charge the ev car on a long journey whilst towing a caravan, due to having to find somewhere (safe & secure) to un-hitch the caravan while you charge the car, especially on the motorway system.
@fredyellowsnow7492 my box doesn't wobble, I pull it with a camper van. Love it, gets us away cheaply every fortnight. Also provides satisfying restorative justice against impatient angry drivers.
@7755ian1 I love my caravan, it gets me away cheaply every fortnight and impatient drivers are taught to drive more respectfully and are brought to heel can't beat it !
Speak about the UK, nowhere else in the world. Sooner the Brits get rid of the stupid Starmer government the better, get some sanity back into the country.
You think the conservatives were better? They were a complete shit show of incompetence and corruption. I don't think Labour have been great but they are definitely better.
Germany is running out of parking space for unsold new German EV's. See "German media reveal the full extent of the German car crisis" from the Electric Viking's channel.
I am a salary sacrifice model 3 owner. Lease is up, car is going back, going back to a private ICE. Went used not new. I used to buy a new ICE car every 2 years on a PCP. Not anymore; chronic depreciation of EV makes them far far worse a prospect on a PCP. EV is exposing the reliance of the manufacturers on PCP…I am now in a 4 years old ICE on a personal loan and I won’t be buying new again. For me it’s not about characteristics of the car or the environment. It’s my back pocket. I’m out.
Do you not think that depreciating EVs will also accelerate the depreciation of your ICE. I recently sold my ICE. Had to knock it down 20% from book price. Once the ICE and EVs have price parity, depreciaton will surely affect both equally.
@jerrymyahzcat nice thought. But they aren't. EVs are holding quite well. They will depreciate to ICE price but any sane individual will take an EV over an ICE. EV depreciaton only happened because they were laughably overpriced. A correction was inevitable. Over 1 million EVs in the UK. Familiarity drives popularity. Economics drives sales. You may not like EVs (irrational), but that is likely to leave you trying to sell an ICE vehicle for which there is no demand. I bet you're still waiting for your Blackberry to come back into fashion 😏
@@truebrit3670 the depreciation numbers people give for EVs are based upon the sticker price rather than what people actually pay. Also, the EV market is one that's evolving very quickly so the "best EV on the market" when bought new 3 years ago isn't necessarily that great compared with the choices on the new market today. That puts a downward pressure on their values.
As manufacturers reduce ICE output to meet EV %, the cost of all vehicles will rise as demand outstrips supply. Owning a vehicle was always a possibility/ necessity it will soon become a privilege for many..
@@LonelyTreeSunset I hope you're right. As an EV owner who won't ever go back to gas, I don't want EVs to become mainstream. Being part of a niché market has perks that go away with mass adoption. This being said, if you guys want gas cars, horses, or even public transportation, go for it. They're better for the environment, sound better and most important of all, they're prettier.
If the government really wanted us to all drive evs for environmental reasons, they would allow cheaper MG and BYD cars for example into the UK tax and import duty free. They would make up for the loss of this tax revenue by pushing up the tax on ice vehicles and increasing the price of fossil fuels above inflation every year. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but people would buy bev’s if they were cheap enough and public charging had a subsidised price for anyone not permitted /impossible to have a home charger. But conspiracy theorists might think that halving the number of cars on the roads is an unwritten aim of governments which neatly side steps the crying need for a big investment in UK roads. And think of all those car parks converted into social housing….
Well a few things I disagree with but main one is your statement that we voted in politicians backing this drive but we didn’t as current government didn’t have this in their manifesto it was only pushed hard by Milliband after they won. My view is it is a scam
It was stated by Starmer well before the election that they will bring the date forward. He also said he wants 20 mph to replace 30 mph in England to match Wales. Reform is the only party that will scrap this nonsense.😅
Correct !!! No matter what they mandate WE ARE NOT GOING TO BUY ANY EV AT ALL ! We are going to avoid them AT ALL COSTS ! Hey people, Remember THE "BUYING FORCE" IS IN YOUR HANDS ! THE "BUYING FORCE" IS IN THE CONSUMERS' HANDS !
Big car manufacturers won't allow themselves to go bust without a fight. It'll take a brave government to put 100's of thousands of workers on the dole for an ideology.
Drivers who do really small milages ( like 1000 miles a year ) will opt out of car ownership, and Uber everywhere, rather than suffer the economic shock of depreciation. Also, I think that drivers who own a car, will stick with it, rather than take the risk of buying the wrong car in the next 5 years.
What worries me, is "they" will actively drive ICE cars off the road (no pun intended..!) with either legislation or use the g0vernment nudge unit... 😢
@@Trev5 yes that’s absolutely certain. Ice vehicles will be judged as “pollutants” and will not be allowed into built up areas without incurring massive fines. That would be perfectly logical from a clean air perspective.
Electric vehicles remain out of reach for the majority due to serious challenges with charging infrastructure and constrained mileage range. It raises the question: which dictatorship could compel us to adopt these vehicles?
What happens when the Army are dealing with a conflict and they only have EV's. I can't see them asking the opposition to stop fighting for a bit while they put their tank on charge.
They'll be hoping the enemy also need a recharge... New age warfare will be fought and won with software, the body bags are only for governments to trim the herd in the name of...
Anyone with half a brain realises we cannot continue extraction and burn. If we move the lesser cars such as anything under a V6 to EV it makes sense. I’m an EV owner of 4 yrs and they work for the majority. If we use synthetic fuels for more of the cars we like to hear and drive. Jay Leno put it best by using an EV for daily and super cars at the weekend.
@@EcoFP33 Agreed. I wanted to make a point for repairing things. Nobody needs a new car every two years. Owning and repairing instead of leasing, whatever the technology, that is sustainable.
How does this make sense? You're saying it's not the policy makers, it's the WEF. Okay, then how does the WEF affect anything if they don't make policy?
@@clintoncoker6 the wef have some dystopian idealouges, on how things should be, and have politicians around the world in their pockets because it suits the vested interests. .. Example; all of the companies that "profited" during that virus thing.
As an oldish car owner, low mileage driving, retired person it makes perfect sense to keep my modest petrol estate car. For for the odd UK holiday I can also drive long distances without range anxiety, or charger availability worries. Though for 95% of the year a small EV would be perfect for most retired people. And, I would happily buy one second hand. But unfortunately its going to take several years for pensioner friendly size/priced / insurance group vehicles to find there way into the used car market, as most modern EV's are powerful barges. Yes there are Corsa's and similar Stellatis 'also ran' models, Dachia Spring maybe, but that's barely acceptable as a second car. The reality is that we need to create a strong market for low cost Chinese EV's if the Government want mass adoption of BEV technology. Though my fear is the moment we reach a point where BEV's gain more than 50 percent of the new car market, petrol and road taxes for ICE cars will rise dramatically, forcing people like me off the few roads I am allowed to drive down due to every town and city adopting a money raising ULEZ zone.
Many motorhome and caravan business are already going bust, due to declining sales. Towing accommodation around the country is just wasteful - rent a place already at your location.
@@SDK2006bthe difference in cost of renting a place for a week for a family of four and a dog, versus staying on a campsite in a 20 year old caravan is the difference between being able to take my family on holiday as opposed to not taking them on holiday.
Just for the record, a lot of EVs tow these days, many more weight than an equivalent ICE vehicle. However as a EV is about ⅛ of the running costs, simply dump the toilet on wheels and stay in a hotel instead.
@@SDK2006bthat’s mostly because they had a massive boom during Covid, owners are now offloading those used units & the market has responded accordingly
Starmer needs to do his next jaunt out of his London bubble in an EV , on the motorways and experience mixing with the general public in service stations waiting to charge…then he might get it …its crap!
He hasn't been in for a month yet - don't blame Starmer (yet)- at least the new government are going to think about this country (compared to the bunch of crazies we just voted out). Politicians live on the same planet these decisions have been made worldwide not just in the UK. The Chinese have invested in new tech - we in this country didn't invest in clean power - we even closed down a factory making wind generators - which means we have to buy from .... China.
Listening is one thing....one must have brain cells to think about what is said. Just looking at his `blank canvas` face is enough to tell anyone he is clinically dead & following a script.
@@markclevedon81And look at the links between ex politicians and the co2 Lobby; like ex Lib Dem’s getting hugely paid part time sinecures as soon as out of office, and Clegg’s wife running an international Spanish based company specialising in legal practice for the climate peddlers iirc.
Also check to see if policy makers past and present are invested in fossil fuels in any way and have a look at how enthusiastic they are/were on renewables.
@@kevinmair7571Absolutely they run themselves into the ground and then either had to be sold like MINI brand or died and embarrassingly came back to the roads with MG owned by China who are building great cars. Gone are oh the quality is not there it is now matching anything European has to offer.
Not only the motor industry, but a massive chunk of our manufacturing industry which will lead to mass unemployment, poverty levels will go through the roof, life expectancy will plummet. People will starve and freeze to death in numbers not seen since the Great Depression of the 1920s. The guy is mentally deficient and obsessed with achieving the impossible, no matter the cost.
I have to agree with you. The policy makers seem to think that everyone has off-street parking and easy access to a wall charger, but how many people live in flats, terraced houses or the like. The rush to EVs being the answer for all situations is just not sensible in any way.
The concept that everyone has to charge at home is driven by fossil fuel lobby. Jim Farley says average USA family do only 4 trips per year are over 150miles. In other words with a 500km range, charging once per week is feasible. Sure, charging at home is cheaper than at public chargers and it's up to govt to address this inequality. Here in Oz we get free electricity between 11-2pm so are saving on running costs, our EV has depreciated from 50 to 40 in two years. Our next EV will have 100km more range, longer warranty, is larger, charge faster, more comfort features and advanced adas for 55k on the road. ($60k for even longer real world range of 620km ) It seems there is pressure by vested interests to keep Britain in the dark ages, hopefully govt can deliver safe smooth quiet modern motoring to the public.
And, it assumes everyone has electriciy. In Africa huge parts have hardly any electricity and old peugeot 404 and 504s abound. How is that going to work? How too are African farmers going to farm with electric tractors? Its all so idiotically rash it just blows my mind. Where, for example did the dates come from? Deepand considered investigation and scientific research and planning? No, just some EU drone deciding on a date because it wouldn't mess with their wedding or something equally scientific.
@@mickjoebills Be careful of statistics like what you quoted. A person may not drive over 150 miles from home very often, but most people need to take several trips per day. They don't have time to let the car charge in between these trips, thus the assumption that a person could survive with one charging per week is false. This assumption ignores the reality of how often people need their cars.
@@GameWithViiP3R Of course flats will install more chargers as the proportion of EVs increase. Profits from petrol stations will transfer to owners of EV chargers. That's already happening in places with higher EV adoption.
@@LonelyTreeSunset So, what exactly would the benefits or advantages be to a Government, restricting the freedom of people's movement? You seem to have completely overlooked the fact that you're *already* restricted, because you are chained to the oil industry. If the Government wished to restrict your freedom of movement, they could do it from tomorrow by limiting the times, or the amounts of petrol you could buy. Why would they specifically need to wait for full EV adoption?
Can someone please tell me when they’re going to restrict me travelling around in a car because at the moment I seem to be able to go where and when ever I want?
I thought we'd left the EU - why are we still following their rules? Hardly any mention of Electric long distance lorries/buses/coaches etc. and what about air travel - how are they going to fit a battery into an intercontinental airliner?
The first question that no one has asked is "In reality, how much do our ICE cars contribute to airborne pollution?". The reality is that it's a single digit number in % terms. So why are cars being attacked without there being a return on investment that makes ANY sense?
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 The whole point of public transport is efficiency; i.e. it's supposed to be for times when lots of people are heading in the same direction. 10 lanes of "freeway" (read parking lot) traffic in LA is exactly the situation that public transport is for. obviously it doesn't do away with cars, but it can replace 65+% of daily traffic if done well.
@@TankEnMate Good luck getting to A&E if there aren't "lots of people heading in the same direction", then. I guess you think that's a small price to pay for "efficiency".
@@stevemawer848 if you need to get to the emergency department quickly then you call an ambulance. i think it is patently obvious that public transport doesn't fit all possible transport requirements, and even suggesting as such (in a backhand way) means you're not serious.
But do policy makers listen to the people? I think not. Who asked for this in all truth? When do policy makers do what people ask and when do they simply do something to appear 'cool' and 'trendy'? I think the latter is massive.
As well as as the above comment we vote for someone to do there best for us NOT to do what you want as an individual and this is a very important distinction and why the people say they don’t do what we want. Not true.
"...cool and trendy" - I'm afraid the truth is somewhat more sinister. More like the vast majority of the civilised world is beholden to the same master.
I don't know what UK charging prices are like but a Tesla Y Long Range in Australia will cost you around $AUD48 and take 27 minutes. That will take you around 316 miles. An equivalent ICE SUV In size would be a Kia Sportage. The Kia 2.2 Diesel would use 32 litres of Diesel times $AUD1.84 per Litre or $AUD59. This gap is the narrowest in two years as Australian electricity prices are rising faster than Ron Jeremy's appendage. The Kia would also take you another 59km before a fuel stop meaning one stop between Sydney and the warmth of sunny Gold Coast in winter time whereas the Tesla would require 2 stops just to be on the safe side. The much lauded large operational savings of an EV simply are not there!
To be fair, charging at home is really, really cheap -- as in $1-3 AUD per charge. Especially using your home solar systems (in which case free apart from the system cost and cahrger cost of about $2000 AUD). Home solar systems in Australia are HEAVILY subsidised by the Government (to the tune of 50-60% IIRC). Obviously home solar may not be quite so useful in sunny England!
@TassieLorenzo Except that many EV owners live in apartments or innercity terraces with no off-street parking so charging is either not possible or not really cheap.
@@TassieLorenzo Yeah, but who cares about those creeps (btw are they still walking around on all fours??).. the tyrannical oligarchy running everything have garages.. Sheesh..
New UK EVs - Dacia - £15k, forthcoming Renault 5 - £25k. Recent depreciation is partly a factor of deliberate price cutting of new models (esp Tesla) meaning a sudden big drop in 2nd hand values. The big price cuts were a specific one-time factor that aren't going to be repeated. For the over-priced old-school manufacturers there is a bit of reckoning coming - the Chinese and Tesla are making a profit at the reduced prices they can now charge - old-school manufacturers are making loss even at the high prices they charge.
California invested heavily in hydrogen. Flop. Synthetic fuel will always be more expensive than EV, because it requires 4x the electricity. Still creates air pollution. It's a zero emissions mandate, IE zero at the tailpipe, it doesn't exclude hydrogen. Hydrogen is only talked about as a delay to people switching to Bev's. Manufacturers have billions in engine plants and would prefer not to change. So they bleat about hydrogen combustion or fuel cells to delay them having to bother switching to EV. It's an insanely difficult molecule to have to deal with. If delivering liquid hydrogen to a forecourt it would take 14x as many trucks to deliver the same energy. Shell have removed their hydrogen stations from the UK and California as it's a huge flop. California is selling hydrogen at $36 per kg or 40p a mile. It's unaffordable. Sorry but 60mpg is not a good enough change. My petrol swift did 60mpg anyway. Plug in hybrids simply aren't used, barely anyone bothers plugging them in. EU data showed they were barely better in real world use than a petrol car. The MG4 starts at £26k right? So it's no more expensive than your hybrid. The hybrid batteries don't last as long, each cell within them has to do 4x the discharge rate Vs an EV to accelerate and likewise regen. They need 4x as many cycles to go the same lifetime distance, so they wear out more quickly. Hybrid's had their place, but 1997 wants it's technology back. Sorry Ped but this shows how much you still have to learn about the technicals of these alternative fuels. Do a deep dive on them with Moggy or something. Also, no one cares if tractors don't go EV as quickly, they barely matter. HGVs are beginning to go EV, gridserve are launching a trial of a HGV national service. There's planning permission in for wetherby services to have an extension for 100 HGV chargers to be put in. Have a look.
And all this because of a fundamental flaw in emissions calculations, which means the country that “uses” but doesn’t “produce” all the parts of that vehicle doesn’t have to account for anything but tailpipe emissions. We are here because electrifying personal transportation was the lever governments could pull to keep their legal climate targets without having to do too much / anything themselves.
EV’s on average produce less carbon emissions at around 2 years or 24,000 miles when including production. Sadly this is in comparison to the tailpipe emissions of an ICE vehicle. It does NOT include the production emissions of the ICE vehicle.
I’m law abiding but i guarantee the way it’s going many law abiding citizens will be driving with no insurance, false plates, no tax & the government will have no idea how this happened…
They are building systems that are so easy to work around it's crazy. AI is being relied on to multi evaluate identity through FRT, mesh networks that encompass IOT, phone, car, personal products and even household goods, but those essential links are easily disjointed and suddenly their infallible system is fu**ed. As a small side note, the above is what is behind all the new mega data centres popping up globally.
As a wheelchair user, charging is the overriding issue Pete. My apartment can't support a charge point being installed unless radical thinking is incorporated. Public Charing also is an issue in terms of negotiating cables and plugging points into the charger. No problem getting out of my car at a petrol station on my own. If the two points I've raised were fully addressed then I'd be thinking of my next lease being electric ⚡
Not sure I fully understand how a charging station is more difficult for a wheelchair user than a petrol station. Many charging stations have dedicated bays for wheelchair users to give the extra space needed.
@@MikeF1sher I assume that he isn't planning on sitting by the car the entire time it's charging, so he would have to negotiate his way past a big charging cable. At a fuel station, he would fill the car and then be off.
@@MikeF1sherMaybe because you are not a wheel chair user you don’t understand. Maybe accept the opinion of the person that is a wheel chair user that it would be really difficult to navigate.
Anyone who thinks that using plants to grow fuel in any useful quantity is just dreaming. A multipronged approach is essential, no one wants to see good land gobbled up with solar farms for hundreds of kilometers. So a combo package of wind, hydro, solar, tidal, nuclear, storage batteries of various types etc. is the smart answer, you utilize resources that are available. This way your grid is more robust and immune to total failure.
The BEV market is saturated so who is going to buy all these new BEVs that they have to sell? The number of new ICE cars will have to fall to avoid the fines. This is madness. How many manufacturers will shut down? But fortunately the far east will be sending over nearly new ICE cars for us to buy. Toyota have said they will run the new cars round the block and send them over as used.
The percentage figures are what they have to make, not sell. Once made, they'll be sold at whatever price point they can be sold at, which should push the prices down. And as build percentages ramp up, economies of scale also ramp up, and they'll be able to make them cheaper. But I think the government have done it wrong. They need to tax ICE, so that people buy EV because it's cheaper. And freezing fuel duty for over a decade doesn't do that. Also, government should incentivise the dirtiest vehicles off the road, by perhaps providing grants, favourable loan or tax breaks to relpace or retrofit things like delivery vans and busses with EV tech, to replace the dirty diesels that are producing toxic gasses around cities.
This all started at the wrong end of the market. A cheap single seat commuter vehicle would have boomed leading to a bigger take up by people in the long run.
Exactly, China EVs manufacturers have created a EV super mini for around 12k. but the motor manufacturers, and the EU are putting tariffs on those cheap cars because 1/ western manufacturers.cant compete on price or technology. 2/ claims of Chinese government subsides artificially lowering the EV manufacturer.
The price of second had ICE cars will increase when the supply of new cars is limited to ev’s. The government will then increase fuel duty to force people in to EV’s.
At which people will start brewing their own fuel mix from Ethanol, hooch is easy and if you are not drinking it, it is difficult to go wrong, or biodiesel from cooking oil
Well the alternative would be to leave it all as it is now, and you happily continue paying one of the highest rates of fuel duty each time you fill up.........
@@Brian-om2hhIt doesn't matter. The cost of owning any vehicle is going to be down to what it's depreciated by, not what it costs to fill up. It's bizarre how people say how cheap it is running an EV but they never factor the biggest cost of ownership which is, of course, depreciation.
@@huwsparky175303Buying an EV to sell on in a few years indeed is not very cost effective. But if you are looking to keep that vehicle a considerable amount of time (and with low service cost and low maintenance costs why wouldn’t you) then over the lifetime that saving over an ICE is definitely there).
I was almost given an old low mileage Subaru Liberty a few years ago, it's in good condition as it sits in my garage and only gets a drive up my road about once a month. Since the great scam I've had so many people offering to buy it at more than ten times the price I paid, I feel I should have bought more oldies when they were cheap. I also have a 60's car that will be my lifetime of driving car, it should get me to the end and beyond. happy days.
A friends neighbour had a focus diesel, that did the job perfectly, then she got an electric Hyundai Kona, I think, had the equipment installed at home, all was fine, until she went to her daughter in wales, from north Manchester. She got there ok, but when she was heading home the car was saying 10% remaining just a few miles into the journey, she was panicking , a woman in her 60s , on her own , in an area she didn’t know , in the dark , in a car that wasn’t going to get her home . She found a petrol station where the staff were very helpful, they phoned the AA, she is a member, who simply put the car on a trailer and took her home . She had done this journey many times in the Focus without problems. She now has a Hyundai i20.
@@jerrymyahzcat not the brightest are you . She lives in Radcliffe, charged at home , like I put ! Got to her daughter’s house , but wasn’t going to make it back. She had never charged away from home during the short time she had the car . Her previous car did the round trip on less than half a tank .
@@timrothwell33 She just bought a car, missold, it would seem, as it did not have the ability to meet her needs in the way a normal car would have done.
I have an apartment where I asked about installing a charger point on the outside of my ground floor property. Before I actually paid for the installation of the charger itself the admin costs were circa £5k. Think not.
and you would have put up your house insurance, and everyone else's too! If I was your neighbour and you did that, I would be demanding the difference from you!!
@@suecharnock9369 The hint was "I think not" They even had the brass neck to ask me if I thought my neighbours would agree to them installing charging points on our parking bays. At £5k a pop on service charges I think not. Can you see the theme here.
To be able to fit a EV charger that can charge at 7kW you need a minimum of 60a mains fuse that's not shared with neighboring properties. That 5k probably incorporates all the extra work required to upgrade you for that. Either that or they gave you a silly price to put you off.
In europe we use 230v 3-phase 16A total 11 kw. That's the most common electric connection for a house. Usually we lower the charging to 8 amps, 5,5 kw, that's enough for over night charging. It's only 1,8 kw from each phase from 3-phase system. 3-phase charging cable is about 150 euros, you just push the connector to 3-phase socket and you are ready to charge.
The idea that the targets are a firm line in the sand is total nonsense. The auto industry can lobby the government to change the rules and if they don't we can vote them out.
You're right, my neighbour let me drive his and I was really impressed. The only thing I don't embrace is the total reliance on a smart phone and the ability of the manufacturer to immobilize the vehicle remotely.
Taking a test drive and actually buying are two entirely different situations. I just bought a diesel because it suits my needs better and it is cheaper to run. What is happening to the car market is similar to the farming industry, it’s been manipulated to the point where the business is sterile and does not function as a competitive entity. This leads to the consumer being charged more through taxation and the producer reduces quality to save costs. As always, it is a race to the bottom and the politicians cream off what they can as long as the situation allows. A little simplistic maybe, but am I actually wrong?
There is no doubt EVs are fantastic bits of equipment. Fantastic acceleration, quiet, fewer moving parts etc. But once you consider ownership, upfront cost, depreciation and range anxiety, start to become real. Yup. I certainly am afraid of that kind of change.
@@richardhemingway6084Ownership costs are low as servicing costs are minimal and electric is cheap, buy used and you benefit from depreciation rather than suffer from it. And as to range anxiety, in the last 10 months the charging network has gone from 50k chargers to 66k. As I said, some people avoid change because they see issues rather than opportunity. It’s a state of mind.
I am viewing this from Queensland Australia. England can easily fit in a corner of Southern Queensland. Our travel distances are far greater than England and we travel further to our far flung towns and cities than people in England. EVs just don't measure up yo our needs. The infrastructure is extremely weak if present at all in our rural areas and the chargers are so slow it takes up to 12 hours to charge an EV in our rural areas. In the city and for someone who never leaves the City an EV may be fine but fast charging in Australia works out more expensive than premium petrol which is 95 octane. Governments want EVs to be a one size fits all and that will never work. The whole EV thing needs a massive rethink by governments especially as they are mandating one technology to the exclusion of all others and it may be one of the others that works better and fits the needs of more people in the long term.
My friend's Tesla is broken. It's been broken for 3 weeks now. No garage is able to repair it. But just the troubleshooting has already cost 2000 euros. Is that economical?
The ability of garages to repair BEVs at battery cell level, battery management system level and interverter board level is certainly a problem (especially when OEMs like Tesla use proprietary). stuff). It's basically a wholesale shift from repairing mechanical engineering based devices to electrical engineering devices. But in time, the expertise should be there. There are already "battery enthusiasts" who love balancing cells and building inverters, as opposed to the typical petrolheads who love building engines and tuning carburettors. 🙂
Where are these battery enthusiasts? They should already exist everywhere throughout Europe. But they don't. Talking about the possibities in the future, is just wishful thinking.
@@vask3863 Refer to Robert from Aging Cars here on UA-cam! From collecting three electric Codas, souping up his electric lawn mower, repairing his electric Twike, and now building a twin-Tesla-motor Ford Escape -- he is a typical of a battery enthusiast. He seems to love nothing more than building battery packs! There's another battery enthusiast who showcases their battery-swapped 2003 VW Passat they built in 2008. There's a wonderful DIY setup of inverters, fuses, chargers etc in the boot. He does work for Tesla, but that should be no impediment to battery enthusiasm.
At 68, and have a pension…. I could muster 4k as a deposit… Now what 150- 200 quid out my pension each month till I die ?? It’s my old petrol fiesta for me I’m affraid , that’s an issue for thousands of us -
It’s not the people anymore - start with the WEF who are using “your government “ to gain “global” control. Listen to what Trump tells you. Taking it further - try and find real information which proves a climate problem. My own research has only given me emotional and not facts to prove there is while I can find plenty of facts (no emotion) to prove there isn’t a climate problem.
LOL - the government in the USA is for the rich and only the rich. Just look at your work laws, social care or health care. It's all about money, nothing else. Just google and compare what you call benefits in the USA is what we call human rights in Europe and the rest of the industrial world. BTW the USA signed the human rights charter that health, social, work are human rights, but it's the only country that did not ratify what they signed....
There is a lot to be said for improved hybrid tech. But I utterly disagree with burning gigawatts of electric to produce Hydrogen.... Which is massively explosive and difficult to store.
We have excess renewable energy at times which actually forces wholesale energy prices to go negative. We can't just turn off our nuclear and fossil fuel power stations so what can we do with that excess energy? We can store it in batteries but that's not a great solution but use it to generate hydrogen seems good to me.
Hydrogen tech is getting better all the time it hasn’t had the time and money spent on it like batteries have so far so it will get more and more efficient. Also battery powered vans and Lorrie’s and buses just doesn’t work for long journeys carrying large amounts of weight at all.
@@johnandrews2642 I admit the Cybertruck is stupidly slow in production. But 500 mile range is not nothing. Of course the Auzzie road trains are even bigger... and they are pulling 400miles on electric.... But it will take decades to sort out lorries to something cleaner.
@@stevecade857Hydrogen has a very low theoretical limit to its round trip efficiency. Once you add the building of hydrogen refuelling stations (costs are eye wateringly ridiculous) and transport of hydrogen to those stations, it's clear that hydrogen is way too flawed to compete with BEVs. People need to do a deep dive into the science and economics of why hydrogen. It is then clear why only being funded by fossil fuels companies.
As from 1st April 2025 all EV owners who purchased a car registered after 2017 will pay £190.00 per year vehicle excise duty. As from 1st April 2025 any vehicle registered after that date costing in excess of £40,000 will pay an additional £410.00 per year, which is a total of £600.00 VED
@@theroadsnearyou...5088 You were born with nothing, you will die with nothing, everything inbetween is 'on loan' and thus we should treat it with responsibility.
You couldn't dump them in landfill due to the fire risk as the cells degrade and also the toxicity of the materials. Just one cell going on fire is a major health and safety risk as it can start a chain reaction
@@Rabbitt-d6y It will likely do 3.5 miles per k/wh so 22p a mile. That 80 per k/wh is expensive but not untypical but Teslas would pay about half that. Tbh I don't know what a gallon. I would not be able to get anywhere close to measuring out a gallon.
@@Rabbitt-d6y 80p per kWh is like saying £1.46 per litre. 1 kWh will take an EV 4 miles. 80/4 = 20p per mile. 1 litre will take a car 7.3 miles. £1.46/7.3 = 20p per mile. So he sent a car back because it cost him the same as a petrol car? Especially as 80p per kWh is the highest price seen. Tesla chargers cost 42p per kWh so that is 42/4 = 10.5p per mile and a lot of Tesla chargers are open to his Audi. Half the price of a petrol Audi. Someone at home on an overnight tariff pays 7.5p per kWh. 7.5/4 = 1.87p per mile - 1/10th the cost of petrol for an Audi. He just didn't learn maths at school.
@@Hitstirrer Not my choice, but another factor is the lack of high speed chargers for cars like the Audi e-tron. And it is 10 times more expensive to charge publicly compared to home charging. Rip off
Thanks for bringing this up. I agree, the problem is not EVs, but the government making it mandatory is just wrong! Also, we can not put all the coins in one basket, so as you said, sometimes even a diesel could be a solution for tractors and farm stuff, and every other source of energy could diversity, and therefore reduce the impact. Imagine the strain on the minerals to produce batteries if the whole world goes electric!!!
"Imagine the strain on the minerals to produce batteries if the whole world goes electric" Not a problem and that problem is kind of NOT POSSIBLE! The Minerals used to create batteries keeps CHANGING. FYI LiFePO4 contains Zero Cobalt and Manganese.
It is arguably manufacturer fraud to😮 sell customers a car that lasts 20 years in the year 2030. We won't have enough gasoline to run the car in 2050! Peak oil already happened in ~2012 and we had a temporary reprieve from fracking but now a second peak oil is just about to happen!
I'm glad you mentioned the Renault hybrids. I delivered an Austral and it was ridiculously efficient, using hardly any fuel, while running on electric for much of the journey, and still managing to charge the battery from close to zero to 50% charge. Comfy, fast and well appointed too.
I think the EV manufacturers need to offer much longer warranties on their cars until confidence grows! This would kickstart the second hand EV market and help support the value of them. Nobody wants to take a chance on a secondhand EV incase of a large repair bill or huge depreciation loss. The UK charger infrastructure is also a concern!
EV’s Will Never Achieve More Than 10-15% Market Penetration. Here’s Why: It is currently impossible to manufacture more than 8-12 million 65Kwh (average) EV batteries per year as there simply isn't enough material. By material I am referring to firstly Cobalt (Lithium Ion), then Phospherous (Lithium Iron Phosperous), then Lithium. Cobalt/Phospherous is required to stabilise a Lithium Ion/Iron battery, and prevent heating expansion, thermal runaway and ultimately battery failure and a very big fire. All current lithium Ion batteries require approx 5% of the battery material to be Cobalt. Some may claim 3% (Tesla), but 5% is more realistic. Less than this and the battery simply can not retain charge, deliver the required power, or support the charging cycles required to be of much use, over it's "short" lifetime. The average 65Kwh EV battery weighs in at about 350Kg, so a quick Calc gives us a Cobalt requirement of about 17kg per battery, based on 5% per battery, or 11kg bassed on the lower 3% figure. We are currently able to either mine, dredge (sea bed/the future), reclaim, or recycle about 190,000 metric tones of Cobalt per year. Out of this we use roughly 40% of that for all non EV Lithium Ion batteries (phones, laptops etc). So that leaves us 115,000 metric tones of Cobalt for EV's, that's 115,000,000Kg of Cobalt. Each EV battery requires 11kg-17kg (3%/5%). We'll be generous and take the 3% Cobalt figure, 115,000,000kg/11kg = 10,454,545 (10.5 million) EV batteries. We currently sell about 76 million cars globally. The UK alone sells 2.3 million cars every year, and by 2035 all cars sold will have to be EV's, or PHEV's. Please note I did not say we would be selling 2.3 million EV's in the UK every year, and nor did any government. These facts are conveniently never mentioned in any government statistics, predictions, or manufacturer advertising. This is the reason that EV's are so expensive, and will only become ever more expensive due to supply and very limited demand of EV batteries. This is also the reason why all the investors in British Volt have scarpered. The Chinese have already laid claim to about 75% of all the available EV “Materiel” supply. There is simply no point in building a Giga Factory here in the UK as we won't be able to procure the material (Cobalt/Phospherous/Lithium) required to manufacture EV batteries on a scale required to make it viable. The only places where Cobalt is found in any quantity are countries like DRC, and Cuba, so not the most stable environments on earth, by a long shot. Also the mining and collection of Cobalt in these countries is appalling in terms of Human Rights, and conditions. All this is glossed over by the motor industry and governments. I won't even start of the lack of infrastructure for EV's in the UK. We needed to spend some 2 trillion pounds on our Nation Grid infrastructure to support renewables, and EV's between 2025, and 2035. That was a staggering 90 billion every year for 10 years. We've currently spent virtually nothing! The reason for this are the facts laid out above. The government know all this, were mearly playing for time and praying to god that a miracle occurs in EV battery technology some time soon. Sorry to wee all over the chips (insert joke here), but perhaps people need to start reading factual papers more, rather than following trends, and the trendy. EV sales have now plateaued at about 16.5% of total car sales (265,000), that's because everyone that can afford to buy the latest trendy thing, at an inflated price, has already done so. To get to 2.3 million by 2035 we will need to add an additional 165,000 EV's to the previous years total every year up to 2035. So in 2024 we will need to sell 430,000 EV's, you get the idea? This is clearly not feasible, so by 2035 we may be selling, lets be generous and say 500,000 EV's a year. This will be down to cost and lack of supply. That leaves a yawing 1.8 million people waiting for a new car every year, year on year, because they can't buy a new petrol, or diesel car. This will take us right back to the 1960's USSR where waiting times for a Trabant was 10-15 years. As an aside what ever happened to V2G (Vehicle to Grid)? So 90% of all EV charging is carried out at home. That leaves just 10% of all EV charging to be done at a commercial operator station. No investor in their right mind is going to invest in a business that will only ever see 10% of the total market. Just imagine if 90% of all ICE cars refuelling was able to be carried out at home. Do you think there would be the exact same number of petrol filling stations as there is now, servicing a poultry 10% of the refuelling market? If this stands any chance of success, all “not at home EV charging” will need to be run by each countries state government, not commercial, or private companies. This will all have to be 100% funded by the tax payer! EV's purchased by the public account for
But you've got a smartphone which was almost certainly built in China, or a tablet or laptop perhaps?....You house is full of made MIC products but you won't buy a Chinese car....even though the car you drive today probably has a lot of MIC parts in it.
@@JamesSmith-qs4hx Well it's now the get out clause 'climate change' now so it could get colder as well and man made pollution will still get the blame.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 There's an enormous difference between a company incorporated in a free and democratic country using Chinese made components, and buying a Chinese car.
Nah BREXIT was mainly about racism. That didn't pan out for them so we had the riots from the few numpties that probably still think the economic consequences were a price worth paying to take back control.
@@organickevinlondon MEP's don't have any power at all, they can't actually propose legislation. Nor can citizens nominate them. It's completely a sham to create the illusion of democracy. The actual people in power at EU have zero accountability.
Keeping my old car Dodge Avenger , and just bought a new petrol mg3 , i wont be held hostage by snowball policy . As long as parts available and im able to repair ( im able to do my own work) i will save more money than EV can save .
But it effects other areas of our society. Tail pipe emissions account for 40,000 premature deaths a year. Climate change is the greatest current threat to our food production in the UK. Wouldn't be much of a government if they couldn't act on those facts.
@@willdclarke33what a load of absolute tosh. Vehicles are cleaner now than they’ve ever been. Climate change is nothing but a scam. Non of the predictions have come true. As time goes on it will become more apparent.
Yet they mandated things like catalytic converters and smog regulations, and in the long run that turned out for the best and improved urban air quality, no?
My Vauxhall is in the dealership now having warranty work done. It’s 2012 model with 47k miles lots of life in my car to go 😮 cos it has 52,000 miles to go on the warranty, 12 years and only half way through
Most of the car manufacturers that can't make an attractive EV at a decent price are the ones that said that Tesla would never be able to either. The challenge is there to be overcome by any that are good enough. So, yes, some will likely fail and be restructured, for being second rate. The same applies to governments and countries - those that solve the problems will leap ahead.
Chinese EVs just remind me of when Japanese cars threatened US and UK manufacturers in the 1970s - yes, Toyota and Datsun (Nissan) did eventually put British Leyland out of business - no doubt we will see this happen again... Am I worried, not really, just surprising that Toyota are so blind to the fact as it was this exact same strategy that made them such a large competitive car company in the first place.
If we all had electric cars and heat pumps they would have complete control of what our electricity would cost, do you think they would put the price up for the benefit of the foreign people that own all our energy generated thanks to our government!!
The CEO of Toyota has come out saying at best the total EV fleet will be 30% of the current fleet. Many car makers are already moving back to ICE as no one wants to buy EV. Ford , GM , VW Many EV owners who are second time around are going to hybrid.
But can we talk sense into green politicians? In my experience, they only see their ideology and fully ignore the necessities and facts that reality brings with it.
Have a listen to the Ford CEO in this very recent interview available on You Tube: Ford CEO Jim Farley discusses the rapid evolution of electric vehicles.
Toyota is so far behind with EV technology they have painted themselves into a corner. Of course they are going to push hybrids, that all they have. No conflict of interest here at all. Toyota is also one of the *biggest* anti-EV lobbyists on the planet, right up there with the oil companies.
EV battery will need to be replaced after 10-15 years but it will cost more than the value of the car to replace. So your 10 year old petrol car would still work fine. They should let the product to improve to a point of conversion rather than punish people to buy expensive and not ready product. Now china car is getting better and cheaper but they are being blocked. So do they want net 0 or not?? I would buy a mini electric car for 5k from China rather than 16k here.
I've been told here in the States that there isn't an urban electrical grid in existence that could handle even 1/10 of COMMERCIAL vehicles switching to EV, let alone POV's. The infrastructure just isn't there, and would be insanely expensive to upgrade. Not to mention the ridiculous price of the batteries (in money and environmental damage), the all too frequent and under-reported vehicles that burst into flames out of the blue, the amount of trip time wasted waiting for your charge... I would be all-in IF the technology was mature, stable, and reliable. It isn't, and won't be for the foreseeable future, and these Green idiots know it. They want you home where they can keep an eye on you. Some of them even admit they want to do away with privately owned vehicles in favor of "community shared" vehicles... Welcome to your Socialist Paradise, comrade... but they'll still have their private jets!
"The infrastructure just isn't there, and would be insanely expensive to upgrade." Do you have any concept what the cost is to deal with climate change? Everything from wars that cost trillions to disasters, to climate migration. That's not even getting into destroying our coral reefs, and the arctic, causing millions of species to go extinct, the risks to the food web and ultimately the impact on the commercial fishing industry... Upgrading the infrastructure is paying OURSELVES money and creating domestic jobs here. EVs are coming, either the US gets on board, or the Chinese will completely dominate the market and there won't be a US auto manufacturing sector in 10 years. Mandarin will be the primary language in Michigan, comrade.
@vell0cet517 Sorry, I get your point, but this has been worked on for the last 14 years. Plus, so yes, it can't handle it yet, but it is their and growing and those investing in it are making more than the oil tycoons why else do you think everything going on in the world is the way it is those behind the curtains are in panic mode
@@vell0cet517 you can add this one to the cost of Man Made Climate Change, the next Pandemic, caused by the release of viruses currently unknown to mankind, when the Artic Permafrosts thaw.
There is no such thing as a high quality Chinese car! My neighbour bought a BYD in February, it burnt his driveway in March! If you put your loved ones in an EV make sure you have a window breaker in the car because the electric door release does not work when it goes into thermal runaway.
That’s interesting as aren’t BYD’s supposed to use blade LFP batteries which are mooted as safer, being able to be pierced with a nail with catastrophic consequence. The facts are an EV is less likely to catch fire than a ICE car - remember that multi-storey car park incident that was in fact an ICE vehicle. And vehicle fires in event are a very rare thing. But the truth is an EV battery fire is considerable more difficult to extinguish than a ICE vehicle fire. I’m an EV owner of 2 years and been driving ICE vehicles up till then - a vehicle fire has and still is the least of my motoring concerns.
I don’t have off street parking but I do have a 100mm drain pipe under the footpath that I send my charge cable down and the. I charge my EV on the street. My next door neighbour does the same.
BioLPG in combination with hybrid is something that can be practically be done with little cost or need for much infrastructure...not heard a peep about it though really.
Thanks PP for some balance. I thought you might have mentioned the lack of after sales service, availability of reasonable cost spare parts and repair, which traditionally was an accepted part of the manufacturer's obligations and now appears to be zero for many makes, driving up non-repairable write-offs, driving up insurance and driving down resale. The industry is being forced to manufacture, they also need to be forced to meet 'reasonable' service and repair requirements for at least the period of warranty like they have done and do for ICE vehicles. That may also mean they may need to provide the training and facilities for that to occur. The out the door sales model which relies on being able to sort your issues with remote software access and "if we can't your stuffed", as I see it, is a big part of why buyers are not going there.
Lots of people saying that the grid won’t cope. Current forecasts suggest that if everyone went EV now electricity demand would increase by about 8GW, which would put us back to what we were using in 2002 (demand has been falling since). National Grid has said that they can cope, there’s some interesting documentation provided by them about this.
It depends what is meant by ‘The Grid’. I think the generation end of it would be fine, as you say, but the distribution network could requite a lot of investment in cabling and local transformers to handle the domestic demand for EV chargers. We’re looking at constant loads, not the usual domestic ones that spread across a few hours on average.
Good point - also with 2 million cars plugged into the grid that is a lot of battery storage for electricity that currently goes to waste plus it can be pulled back out the car for use in the morning peak
Good analysis of the situation. Something else to consider, as I have just discovered is the hidden cost of owning an EV or in my case a PHEV. My previous car was a Rav4 Petrol and the insurance was £300 per year. My current car is the Rav4 PHEV and the insurance is now £1,250 per year. I also paid £1,100 for my home charger. The road tax is £410 per year on top of the standard rate, for five years as the car was over £40,000. So over the next 5 years I will be paying an extra £7,900 for helping the environment. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this car, but why are they fleecing me for trying to be green? I have heard that a full EV is even more expensive to insure. This is not the way to encourage us to switch, when a petrol car cost so little to buy and run.
Your problem is the UK insurance industry. The poor regulation and massive aversion to risk leads to these numbers. Just for fun i typed in my details using my dad's nice rural UK address and got insurance quotes for my Tesla. The quotes came back 25% more than i pay in Norway, despite all our ice and snow and hugely high labour rates. Plus the coverage was considerably worse.
Statistics (facts) suggest that Hybrids are about 20 times more likely to catch fire than ice cars, which are more likely to catch fire than BEVs. That will have some impact on your insurance. I went from a diesel straight to a BEV and my insurance went up by about £50. The road tax increase had nothing to do with the PHEV, just the cost of your car. Mine was under £35k and so I've paid nothing in road tax since I bought it.
Why don't the car manufacturers tell the UK government to do one, about being fined £15k per EV not being sold, or they'll pull out of our market. What's Starmer going to do? Force the UK motor industry will go into financial meltdown with potential job losses!
@@stuartd9741 Hi , Stellas or whatever their name is, is already talking of closing the Vauxhall plant at Ellsemere Port most probably want the government to give them more money, which Labour will do, but basically we have no main stream Vehicle manufacturers they are all owned by either China, India or France so closing down the UK would cause them no trouble as even Ford have closed all their factories even the engine factory in Wales.
Liebiur want ti shut down all of our manufacturing capacity, the numpties think that importing everything from China etc is greener than making things here. The UK is going to be like any other 3rd world country.
EV prices will come down with production scales and there will also be the second hand market. Let's be honest, how many of us can afford to buy any new car? Also, who knows what the ownership picture will look like in 10 years time? What about the low cost brands joining the EV sales. Dacia project their EV to be the third cheapest car in the UK ... of all propulsion types. There are just so many variables.
The mandate by the EU/UK is misguided as the achievable reduction in global carbon emissions is less than 3%. Cars and vans contribute only 7% of global CO2 emissions and only some of that will be saved because 1. developing countries will not and cannot adopt, 2. Fossil fuels accounts for a substantial proportion of electricity generation outside the West, 3. EVs have a high initial carbon footprint and will likely have shorter lifespans than fossil cars. Partial adoption EVs in congested urban areas is a better policy in order to cut local emissions.
1. We need to reduce emissions in all sectors. Cars/vans don't get a pass because they're "only 7%". If the world worked this way, all the seven percenters could just put off doing anything until the other higher emitting industries have spent years reducing their emissions. Nonsensical. Every sector matters, has to get on with it, not whine, "no, you first, because you're bigger". 2. Yes, fossil fuels (mainly gas, sometimes coal) account for most electricity production in many places around the world, including high-income countries. In many low-income countries, hydropower accounts for much more than 50% of production. In almost all countries, the one thing that is growing fastest by percentage YoY is solar and sometimes other renewables such as wind. Just as the West (and the UK) is demonstrating how viable decarbonisation of the electricity grid is, those cost reductions will enable renewables to work in lower-middle income and lower income countries too. 3. Lifecycle emissions for conventional fuel cars are consistently higher vs e.g. Tesla (US battery) cars. The argument that EV batteries need replacement after 5 years has been debunked so many times it's unreal. See Carbon Brief's factcheck article, and even that was from 2019. Since then, the EV manufacturing process has become more efficient, uses more locally sourced renewable energy and so you can literally buy a new EV, drive it for a few years at 8,000 miles per year and within 2-5 years you're already emitting less CO₂ than pretty much any conventional car, including the Toyota Prius "Eco"s of the world.
2:00 "It's BOILING out there!" What, 75°? (that's 24°C for the rest of the world) 3:40 You can mandate sales percentages all you want, but you can't mandate people buy them. All this will do is create an enormous black market in ICE cars. 7:00 The full-life carbon footprint of an EV is larger than an ICE car, by a bunch. Nearly twice, in fact. Not only is battery manufacture and disposal environmentally devastating, but you have to replace your EV twice as often as an ICE car. It's not the car per se, but the battery. No one is going to spend the cost of a new car to replace the battery only to have a 10-year-old car at the end. I'm still driving my 50-year-old Alfa GTV (built 50 years ago next month) and it's going strong at 670,000 miles (1,080,000 km). I've had two engine rebuilds (at 165K and 621K) and one transmission rebuild (at 450K). There is no way a battery EV would ever work in my driving situation. 7:30 You want to see the true demand for EV's? Stop subsidizing them. Sales will drop to the low single digit percentages. 11:30 [Folks turning in their EV's for ICE cars] That should tell you all you need to know. EV's meet the transportation needs of about 10% of the population (mostly city dwellers who never have to leave town). A decade ago, when Tesla started becoming a big deal, I made a prediction that EV's would never top 10% of new car sales, for that very reason. Despite all the government incentives, fleet buys and employer perks, that's just about where they topped out and are beginning to slide.
Just a few comments on this. Hydrogen will never be a fuel for personal transportation. The reason for this is that the production, storage and transportation of hydrogen takes far more energy than it does to simply fill the battery in an ordinary EV. Hydrogen can't be produced at a remote location and trucked (like gasoline) to fuel stations. The physics of that make it impossible. Hydrogen is not a liquid that can simply be poured from one tank to another, it is gaseous and it must be stored at 700 bar (10,000 PSI) in a tank. Hydrogen stations currently in use make their hydrogen on the spot, which is then dispensed into fuel cell electric vehicles. It costs $36 per kg for hydrogen and your average hydrogen powered car (Toyota Mirai) holds 5.5 kg of hydrogen fuel and has a range of only 300 miles. You can do the math on that one yourself. Additionally, those hydrogen fueling stations require time to electrolyze the hydrogen out of water, compress it to 700 bar and then finally store it in a small tank for dispensing. It takes 20 minutes to recharge the tank in between each car. So, in short, just get hydrogen out of your mind for personal transportation. Synthetic fuels will never be for anything larger than boutique industries like automobile racing. It's expensive and requires carbon dioxide to be extracted from the air to actually make the fuel. Additionally, synthetic fuels are more expensive than gasoline and once a demand develops, they will be even more expensive than gasoline. Laying the blame on the politicians for EV mandates is not going to solve any problems, and here's why. Currently a Chinese EV is double the price of an ICE car in Europe only because Europe has imposed a 46% tariff on the imports of Chinese EVs. Once the Chinese find a way to get around the tariffs, the gloves are off. Rumor has it that Chinese companies are already building EV plants in Italy. European automakers can certainly insist that the politicians all be voted out, but it won't matter once the Chinese find their way in and start selling a $12K EV. Legacy European automakers who don't realize that this invasion is coming are doomed to failure. So sure, keep buying gassers from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.... They'll all be out of business in less than 3 years if they don't get on their EV game. In China EV sales topped 60% this year (2024) and will be headed to 80% by the end of 2025. The same is going to happen in Australia in the very near future as domestic automakers in Australia simply don't exist anymore and they don't have tariffs on Chinese cars. Yes, there's a problem with EVs for people who don't own a house with access to a charging port, but that is a minor problem considering what's going to happen to your auto industry if you don't get on the stick. Fast charging batteries (10-80% in 5 minutes) are already making their way into Chinese cars and once you have that kind of speed for recharging a battery, the gas advantage of fast fueling falls to the way side.
I'm so glad you mentioned that these policies are made by the politicians that we voted into power, because one of the first things that Kier Starmer announced was the rolling back of the all EV sales from 2035 to 2030. There seems to be an intransigence amongst these politicians to even consider that there could be better and more realistic technologies available.
Hihihi! The argument that “they’re forcing it down my throat!” Is just plain dumb. Ok, I hate automatic transmissions. I think they’re lazy, stupid, and people who prefer them are hopefully physically impaired in such a way that doesn’t allow them to drive a car properly. I also hate air conditioners. They a drain on power and take up space. Do you hear people making the same argument that automatic transmissions and air conditioners are being forced down my throat! If you don’t hear that argument please stop saying it for other automotive evolutions like EVs.
i have an EV and CANNOT charge from home, i depend on public network, its due a change at the end of this year, will i have another?...... hell yeah, 100%, you just have to adapt/change and do your homework on how and when and where to charge, yes its not quite as easy as a fuel station (yet) but its a 5th of the price to do the same mileage in whafting silence with instant acceleration, and for that, until the network catches up, i will persevere
I don’t think you will find the current cost benefit will last, even in Norway, perhaps the most successful to date, are removing the state subsidies and costs are slowly rising. They have a real benefit of lots of cheap sustainable hydro sources. Wind and solar are not scaleable solutions
@@Tracertme The cost-benefit will last here in Norway. They are slowly adding taxes at purchase, but those only apply to more expensive cars for now and the phasing-in will continue to favour cheaper cars (and thus poorer people). We also get a big reduction in road tolls, and the government has committed to those always costing substantially less for EVs. We are also scaling wind power quite heavily 😀
@@pixie706 It's unusual to be rural and not have anywhere to place a charger. They don't build apartments in rural locations very often. If there really is no way to have a charger at home, then you'll have to use a granny lead (not recommended and slow), or you'll have to fine somewhere local to charge.
I have a 10 year old petrol car. I do less than 50 miles a WEEK, I put petrol in my tank about every 6 to 8 weeks... just how is spending £30,000 on an EV going to save me money?
It's better for the planet to not replace cars every few years.
It won't.
Don't do it.
The government will get back to you on that one !
Don't buy new EV if you can help it🎉
Where have you seen an EV for £30,000?
I won’t buy an EV
Apparently there isn’t enough chemicals in the world for the batteries to supply the coming demand? 😮
Having no choice sounds like a dictatorship to me
Do you have the choice to use a car with rocket engines on the street? No? DICTATORSHIP!!!!
@@rolandibanez2509 We also have choice wether we are men and woman
@@jeremybasil241 We have the choice which gender role we play in society, yes. Or are you talking about trans people?
@@jeremybasil241No we don’t a fetus's biological sex is determined at the moment of fertilization, when the sperm and egg meet.
We didn't 'vote in' the WEF, WHO, etc.
Yes you do inderectly because they are funded by Governments. We dont vote for the heads of big tec, AI or the oil corporations, sovereign wealth funds, either, and they are the ones who really control the worlds economy.
They have accerss to data that basically we are all screwed if we do not ditch fossil fuels as soon as possible. It is as simple as tthat.
Anyone voting Cons,or Liebour, did exactly that.
Which is why you must vote out those who did.
It doesn't matter which Party for government you voted for; they ALL have the same policy. So, no, there wasn't a Democratic option to vote against it.
EVs depreciate like dead fish.
@@coffinman5007 get a used EV. They're worthless and cost next to nothing to buy and much cheaper than an equivalent age and mileage ICE car, as they have depreciated like dead fish and they also cost 8 times cheaper to fuel than a mechanical piston engined car, 1000 miles for £14 on Octopus energy Intelligent Go tariff.
Absolute win for the second hand buyer.
@LiquidPinky no ev is a win other than for child mining labour, huge environmental impact and restricting travel through enforced time wastage.
@@coffinman5007 Keep telling yourself that.
I am no EV evangelist BTW, I run a Hybrid and my dream car is a Ferrarri 812.
I also know that EVs aren't that bad and have their place.
Good, that means there are loads of used bargains
Here in Ireland, admittedly a very small market, but still within the EU, we have had a Green minister for transport for the whole of the current government term. That’s almost 4 years.
Right from the start, this government has been actively narrowing roads and tightening junctions, removing filter lanes and merging lanes, replacing yield signs with stop signs, changing roundabouts for traffic lights and so on. This is in stark contrast to the previous 40 years, during which we have been widening roads, opening out junctions, creating filter lanes and merging lanes, using yield signs on swept junctions and roundabouts, all in an effort to avoid traffic coming to a full stop and having to start from a standstill. Over those 40 years, our road deaths have been falling consistently. Over the last 3 years they’ve been rising almost exponentially. Anyone care to guess why? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with all the road improvement works that have been undone, now, could it? Having slow and stop start vehicles share space with through traffic shouldn’t cause any conflict, right? Moving opposing lanes of traffic closer together should be fine, right?
If the reasoning that has imposed this catastrophic policy on us is in favour of EVs, that’s all I need to know!
Mr Ryan is an advocate of 15 minute cities and doesn’t approve of rural dwellers, other than essential agricultural workers. He’s in power because of an unfortunate political situation that developed, last time out and a coalition with his party was seen as the least worst option. He could collapse the government at any time, by simply voting against his coalition partners, so he can call the shots, despite only having a minuscule amount of public support.
The country is overrun with unused cycle lanes and greenways, because of this and thanks to our weather, typically wet and windy most of the year, they will continue to be mostly unused. They work well in urban areas, where the buildings provide some shelter from wind and the distances to be covered are small. Very few people are keen on cycling between cities, however. The weeds are already growing on most of those, leading to chemicals having to be used, to keep them open. Green my ass!
recently in my small town. in southwest lower Michigan, US. they started do similar crap, took better flowing 4 lane roads and made them 2 lane with a center turn lane and NEVER USED WASTE OF SPACE bike paths on both sides? WTF? the center turn lane is also never used (hardly) on this road, because its only homes. since this change traffic flow rate just crashed, now if you stuck behind someone slow, no way to pass. and when busy, one lane per side just don't work. they did the name thing on a few other roads throughout this area... all any of it did was make everything WORSE.
@@duncancremin1708 narrowing lanes enrages me … why not just let people park!!! (oh coz that would narrow the lane!)
Soros Schwab hand rubbing intensifies
Spot on Duncan! I was back in the UK last month and was stunned how difficult it has become to drive over there. The camera warnings are continuous, the signage is simply overwhelming and the 20 Zones are everywhere. I tried, really tried to observe all limits etc. but it’s impossible to take it all in. The message is clear: we are taking your freedom and your money. The UK has become a land of ‘boiling frogs’.
We'll be back to Shank's Mare (walking to me and you)
Whenever you can't understand what's going, start with the outcome, assume it's intentional, and infer the motive. Let's be clear, the intention is not that everyone has an EV. The intention is that most people don't have a car at all.
All part of the WEF plan, have nothing and be happy! Starmer is a disciple of the WEF, who are a mix of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia.
where do we find proof for that 'wisdom'?
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Most European/advanced economies are entirely dependent on personal transport. Not even the Tories would be stupid enough to close down the car industry.
Seriously, forget the automakers, just the ancilliary industries are big enough to run a significant part of most countries' economies. It is no surprise that developed economies that have no auto industries work really, really hard to create them, and that any economy which aims to develop rapidly looks straight to automating. Japan, Korea and now China and India have all used the auto industry to develop their industrial base far more quickly than would be normal.
This route to rapid development is now so well established that it has become a standard for economic development.
@@MdvK13979. The unaffordability, the impracticality and the non-existent benefit to the environment of EVs.
@@vociferon-heraldofthewinte7763 no I mean where is this written down in policy? Which overarching regulating body (or whomever) has cooked up this wicked plan and started to actually carry this out? That should not be mired in the usual conspiratorial clouds....
Hi Pete. I’m a farmer. There isn’t enough land in the world to grow synthetic fuels. They’ll always be niche.
A lot of ocean to put wind turbines on, a lot of desert to put PV panels on.
@@edc1569 why convert it? just store the electricity directly in batteries!
Supercar niche.
But Richard Hammond (multi millionaire) , Rowan Atkinson (multi millionaire) and the vintage Bentley club (@^#*^#) think it's viable😂
Maybe, but there also isn’t enough land to put all the solar panels and wind farms you’d need for an EV transition either. Nor is there enough mines for all the extra rare earth minerals you need for them and the transformers and the EV batteries themselves.
Im 54 and enjoyed 35 years of motoring so far and feel sorry for the young having to own EV's in the future.
I am definitely not buying an ev in the future, i would rather have no car at all, and the goverment can shove their ev's where the sun don't shine.
Good things don't last forever.
Enjoy petrol/diesel while you can folks.
Totally agree. I’m the same age as you. Just ordered a gti 8.5 for delivery in February. I will spend my hard earned cash where I want and not where the government want. Sad times ahead.
Guess climate change is your kids and their kids problem not yours
Im 56 and i have the exact same opinion as you do, over my dead body that i ever would by a vibrator on wheels! Why are there only stupid people working in the goverments! Petrolhead forever! 👍🤘✌️
@@GrantBrown-bj1zp GTI ,8.5 😂 Even a Volvo EX30 EV is twice as fast and cheaper to buy. Fossil fools car.
@@Rexbilly9819 my money, my choice.
Destroying private transportation…that’s the only goal…
Utter, glass half empty rubbish...
lol. whatever
@@mikevale3620 what else to expect with our paedo globalist politicians
EVs have built-in tracking capability-useful for those wanting to know…
By the time the common garden idiot finally realises that was their goal, it will be too late for us all.
"we voted in the policy makers".
True, but when ALL the policy making parties all have the same policy it's kind of hard to vote for the alternative!
Reform said the will scrap the net zero madness.
Reform
"Policy makers", there is zero chance of Reform ever being policy makers.
We never vote for the policy makers, just the politicians that spout the policymakers policy.
Jamie haggo 🎯.
The uni party have the system rigged to ensure that those outside the clique have next to zero chance of getting into power.
Only the rich will have mobility, the rest of us will be walking.
Yes, I'll be using my horse to go 22 miles to the store and back to just buy groceries. No EV charge stations within 20 miles of here and we don't have enough power to hook up any more power outlets on our farm. So I'd have to go 20 miles and spend 2 hours doing nothing just to charge a vehicle? Insane! And how do I travel 6 hours in the winter when it is -10 degrees to go back and forth to work in the snow? It would be dead on the side of the road in a week. Vote for people that are living in OUR world.
Yup.
Anything, to get the working class off the roads!
good
@@Eco-m5m Yes. Such is the true cost of burning fossil fuels. On a large scale, taking into account their impact, they are not cheap, and we are fooling ourselves if we think they are.
@@RechargableBattery
So, you are happy to be walking everywhere, instead of driving?
The biggest problem with cars regardless of fuel type is that they are massively over priced, even if you halved the RRP’s they’re over priced! I personally wouldn’t spend the same monthly repayments that I do on my mortgage, on a car, whether you can afford it or not, it’s irresponsible.
VW ID3 about £12,000 in China, new Golf about a quarter of the price we pay. That might explains why everyone wants to put tariffs on them.
If EVs were good enough then there'd be no need to force people into them.
Once you try an EV many can't go back to antiquated ICE vehicles
@@SDK2006bbut also huge amounts of people do go back!
Correct !
@@reececollison5101 - I’m really not precious about what other people doing 🤷🏼♂️
If people want to go back to stopping at stations to put liquid in their cars, at super high tax rates, then so be it 🤣
Would be nice if they didn’t share their tailpipe pollution with everyone else enough 😬
@@SDK2006b Some of the charge stations are as expensive as petrol, but I agree with what you say.
My 15 year old BMW purchased for £4000 6 years ago, gets 60 mpg. same as your poxy hybrid and £21000 less coin. Keeping old cars running and not constantly buying new shite is way way greener. We are totally being mugged. Oh forgot to mention the 900 mile range as well.
My Škoda diesel does 67mpg.
@@marklydon435 my Hyundai does 300 mpg. Is this a competition? I think I won. 😂😂
@@marklydon435 my Tesla did 650 miles at a cost of £0.00(solar panels and free charging at destination)
@@Sp_75-76 but more than the OP's 4k to buy it. But I suspect you just pay monthly. Whereas he doesn't, either way he's quids in.
@@georgegently3026 wrong, it was paid for in cash, old ICE cars keep pushing out shite, so are no way greener, not even in the long run
How does a 17 year old buy a car? Me and my mates bought £500 bangers.
This only affects new cars though. Just like those days there’s many years of old petrol cars still to buy as bangers
@@Wdf-76 You do not need insurance or license to drive a car...
@@Triggernlfrl You do if you have the decency to be law abiding, otherwise the rest of us pay for the costly, dangerous mistakes of others who don't.
Just buy a new or used ICE car in 2029 look after it and will last you 10 - 20 years +. If you are the same age as me and Ped then you just get an electric mobility scooter after 😂😂
Unlike now, in 10 years time, 17 year olds with have 15 year old, £500 Tesla's to buy along with all the petrol bangers!
In percentage terms, heavy haulage, bus and coach transport dwarfs car emissions... Cars are simply an easy target for idealistic politicians.
How many MPs own and drive EVs and how many officialgovernment cars are EVs.
If EVs were the 'answer' private buyers would be falling over themselves to purchase.
The epic depreciation summarises it all. It ends this whole discussion.
Are private buyers falling over themselves to buy new petrol & diesel cars 🤔 What is the data on these?
New car deprecation impacts all vehicles - whatever the fuel type, for the last 5+ decades
@@grandprix1337 they are the answer to some and not others. It depends on your situation/needs. I think the main reasons private sales are struggling are cost to buy new vs depreciation and the amount of misinformation out there scaring people off.
Exactly!
I totally agree that depreciation is an issue, but it also a great opportunity to purchase an ex lease for less than 50% of the original price. Let the leasing companies take the hit and get at high spec car which is cheap to run if you charge at home.
The depreciation on a milk float is 4 times the amount on areal car
consider the plight of the caravan market. Currently it is virtually impossible to charge the ev car on a long journey whilst towing a caravan, due to having to find somewhere (safe & secure) to un-hitch the caravan while you charge the car, especially on the motorway system.
Sorry, but any sympathy I feel for wobble-boxers is eclipsed by my scorn.
@fredyellowsnow7492 my box doesn't wobble, I pull it with a camper van. Love it, gets us away cheaply every fortnight. Also provides satisfying restorative justice against impatient angry drivers.
@@FredFox-m9vwhat is so hard about unhiching at a service station?
I would have thought the bigger problem is finding a charger on a busy day.
If EV's can get rid of caravans...great.
@7755ian1 I love my caravan, it gets me away cheaply every fortnight and impatient drivers are taught to drive more respectfully and are brought to heel can't beat it !
Speak about the UK, nowhere else in the world. Sooner the Brits get rid of the stupid Starmer government the better, get some sanity back into the country.
You think the conservatives were better? They were a complete shit show of incompetence and corruption. I don't think Labour have been great but they are definitely better.
Germany is running out of parking space for unsold new German EV's. See "German media reveal the full extent of the German car crisis" from the Electric Viking's channel.
I am a salary sacrifice model 3 owner. Lease is up, car is going back, going back to a private ICE. Went used not new. I used to buy a new ICE car every 2 years on a PCP. Not anymore; chronic depreciation of EV makes them far far worse a prospect on a PCP. EV is exposing the reliance of the manufacturers on PCP…I am now in a 4 years old ICE on a personal loan and I won’t be buying new again. For me it’s not about characteristics of the car or the environment. It’s my back pocket. I’m out.
Do you not think that depreciating EVs will also accelerate the depreciation of your ICE. I recently sold my ICE. Had to knock it down 20% from book price. Once the ICE and EVs have price parity, depreciaton will surely affect both equally.
@@truebrit3670Nah, many ICE cars are going up in value or holding their value as people want them now that EVs are plummeting.
@jerrymyahzcat nice thought. But they aren't. EVs are holding quite well. They will depreciate to ICE price but any sane individual will take an EV over an ICE. EV depreciaton only happened because they were laughably overpriced. A correction was inevitable.
Over 1 million EVs in the UK. Familiarity drives popularity. Economics drives sales. You may not like EVs (irrational), but that is likely to leave you trying to sell an ICE vehicle for which there is no demand.
I bet you're still waiting for your Blackberry to come back into fashion 😏
@@truebrit3670 the depreciation numbers people give for EVs are based upon the sticker price rather than what people actually pay.
Also, the EV market is one that's evolving very quickly so the "best EV on the market" when bought new 3 years ago isn't necessarily that great compared with the choices on the new market today. That puts a downward pressure on their values.
Friend of mine is in exactly the same situation......in fact he isn't allowed time between jobs to top up....has to do it in own time 😮
As manufacturers reduce ICE output to meet EV %, the cost of all vehicles will rise as demand outstrips supply. Owning a vehicle was always a possibility/ necessity it will soon become a privilege for many..
And the policy makers are perfectly happy with that outcome!
That trend is reversing. EVs aren't selling.
That is their plan of course, but will the public stop it and keep buying non-EVs.
@@LonelyTreeSunset I hope you're right. As an EV owner who won't ever go back to gas, I don't want EVs to become mainstream. Being part of a niché market has perks that go away with mass adoption.
This being said, if you guys want gas cars, horses, or even public transportation, go for it. They're better for the environment, sound better and most important of all, they're prettier.
If the government really wanted us to all drive evs for environmental reasons, they would allow cheaper MG and BYD cars for example into the UK tax and import duty free. They would make up for the loss of this tax revenue by pushing up the tax on ice vehicles and increasing the price of fossil fuels above inflation every year. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but people would buy bev’s if they were cheap enough and public charging had a subsidised price for anyone not permitted /impossible to have a home charger.
But conspiracy theorists might think that halving the number of cars on the roads is an unwritten aim of governments which neatly side steps the crying need for a big investment in UK roads. And think of all those car parks converted into social housing….
Well a few things I disagree with but main one is your statement that we voted in politicians backing this drive but we didn’t as current government didn’t have this in their manifesto it was only pushed hard by Milliband after they won. My view is it is a scam
It was stated by Starmer well before the election that they will bring the date forward. He also said he wants 20 mph to replace 30 mph in England to match Wales.
Reform is the only party that will scrap this nonsense.😅
@@Thetyrerepaireryep
It’s not a government thing. These policies are set by all of Europe combined ( including the U.K.)
We didn't vote for it with tories or liebour.
@@Thetyrerepairer All they need is an overall majority in the House of Commons.
They can make as many as they like but if people dont want to buy them then they wont sell them
Simple if you don't buy them they can't sell them. End of story.
Correct !!!
No matter what they mandate WE ARE NOT GOING TO BUY ANY EV AT ALL !
We are going to avoid them AT ALL COSTS !
Hey people, Remember THE "BUYING FORCE" IS IN YOUR HANDS !
THE "BUYING FORCE" IS IN THE CONSUMERS' HANDS !
Big car manufacturers won't allow themselves to go bust without a fight. It'll take a brave government to put 100's of thousands of workers on the dole for an ideology.
@pauld7827 there's a lot of big car manufacturers that already have.
We've got the zealot Ed Milliband in the driving seat for this. I'm not holdiing my breath.
What if the population "cull" takes care of them?
It's that bad!
Look up Georgia guidestones,recently destroyed,too incriminating.
Do electric cars just appear out the ether? Factories and workers are required for electric vehicles too.
@@pedtrog6443but most of the EV’s are from China, so yes we will potentially see large European companies closing down
Drivers who do really small milages ( like 1000 miles a year ) will opt out of car ownership, and Uber everywhere, rather than suffer the economic shock of depreciation. Also, I think that drivers who own a car, will stick with it, rather than take the risk of buying the wrong car in the next 5 years.
no not if you are a petrolhead
@@markhendley6993 owning any sort of non-work related car is a luxury indulgence. Nobody really needs them.
It's unnecessary to sell your existing car. Keep it well maintained instead.
What worries me, is "they" will actively drive ICE cars off the road (no pun intended..!) with either legislation or use the g0vernment nudge unit... 😢
@@Trev5 yes that’s absolutely certain. Ice vehicles will be judged as “pollutants” and will not be allowed into built up areas without incurring massive fines. That would be perfectly logical from a clean air perspective.
Electric vehicles remain out of reach for the majority due to serious challenges with charging infrastructure and constrained mileage range. It raises the question: which dictatorship could compel us to adopt these vehicles?
What happens when the Army are dealing with a conflict and they only have EV's. I can't see them asking the opposition to stop fighting for a bit while they put their tank on charge.
They'll be hoping the enemy also need a recharge... New age warfare will be fought and won with software, the body bags are only for governments to trim the herd in the name of...
Yes the Army will send a formal notification to the enemy to pause fighting while their zero emission tank recharges. LOL
I expect that our army will retrain as archers, bows and arrows are much more environmentally friendly
@dfergie8300 yes in the Battle of the Somme the great saver was filling stations in no man's land.
The electric vehicles was a great choice in Ukraina. The oil and gas demands refineries and oil and gas imports are easily disrupted.
The market always decides.
If not: Have a look at Cuba - there is beauty in old cars...
They were repairable, modern cars are not, if you don't have the dedicated technology.
No beauty in dementia or lung cancer my friend. Food shortages and floods also play a part.
We need a balance thats all
Anyone with half a brain realises we cannot continue extraction and burn. If we move the lesser cars such as anything under a V6 to EV it makes sense. I’m an EV owner of 4 yrs and they work for the majority. If we use synthetic fuels for more of the cars we like to hear and drive. Jay Leno put it best by using an EV for daily and super cars at the weekend.
@@glennhumphries9444 I am keeping my Lancia Kappa alive since 1996.
@@EcoFP33 Agreed. I wanted to make a point for repairing things. Nobody needs a new car every two years. Owning and repairing instead of leasing, whatever the technology, that is sustainable.
It;s not even the policy makers it.s the WEF.
Absolutely correct, politicians are. It making the decisions.
This!
Indeed, they're manipulated by the WEF through blackmail. Pedophilia, anyone?
How does this make sense? You're saying it's not the policy makers, it's the WEF. Okay, then how does the WEF affect anything if they don't make policy?
@@clintoncoker6 the wef have some dystopian idealouges, on how things should be, and have politicians around the world in their pockets because it suits the vested interests.
..
Example;
all of the companies that "profited" during that virus thing.
As an oldish car owner, low mileage driving, retired person it makes perfect sense to keep my modest petrol estate car. For for the odd UK holiday I can also drive long distances without range anxiety, or charger availability worries. Though for 95% of the year a small EV would be perfect for most retired people. And, I would happily buy one second hand. But unfortunately its going to take several years for pensioner friendly size/priced / insurance group vehicles to find there way into the used car market, as most modern EV's are powerful barges.
Yes there are Corsa's and similar Stellatis 'also ran' models, Dachia Spring maybe, but that's barely acceptable as a second car. The reality is that we need to create a strong market for low cost Chinese EV's if the Government want mass adoption of BEV technology.
Though my fear is the moment we reach a point where BEV's gain more than 50 percent of the new car market, petrol and road taxes for ICE cars will rise dramatically, forcing people like me off the few roads I am allowed to drive down due to every town and city adopting a money raising ULEZ zone.
Caravanning will also end because towing and electric cars simply don’t work
Many motorhome and caravan business are already going bust, due to declining sales.
Towing accommodation around the country is just wasteful - rent a place already at your location.
@@SDK2006bthe difference in cost of renting a place for a week for a family of four and a dog, versus staying on a campsite in a 20 year old caravan is the difference between being able to take my family on holiday as opposed to not taking them on holiday.
Just for the record, a lot of EVs tow these days, many more weight than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
However as a EV is about ⅛ of the running costs, simply dump the toilet on wheels and stay in a hotel instead.
Every cloud 🤷🤣
@@SDK2006bthat’s mostly because they had a massive boom during Covid, owners are now offloading those used units & the market has responded accordingly
Kier Starmer needs to listen to this . Politicians live on a different planet to ordinary people.
Starmer needs to do his next jaunt out of his London bubble in an EV , on the motorways and experience mixing with the general public in service stations waiting to charge…then he might get it …its crap!
He knows, but he doesn’t care.
He hasn't been in for a month yet - don't blame Starmer (yet)- at least the new government are going to think about this country (compared to the bunch of crazies we just voted out). Politicians live on the same planet these decisions have been made worldwide not just in the UK. The Chinese have invested in new tech - we in this country didn't invest in clean power - we even closed down a factory making wind generators - which means we have to buy from .... China.
Listening is one thing....one must have brain cells to think about what is said.
Just looking at his `blank canvas` face is enough to tell anyone he is clinically dead & following a script.
Politicians are only the mouth for the criminals running the show.
Just follow the money and see if "policy makers" are heavily invested in renewable energy companies.
Excellent point and the investments will pay dividends but at the expense of the ordinary motorist..
@@markclevedon81And look at the links between ex politicians and the co2 Lobby; like ex Lib Dem’s getting hugely paid part time sinecures as soon as out of office, and Clegg’s wife running an international Spanish based company specialising in legal practice for the climate peddlers iirc.
Also check to see if policy makers past and present are invested in fossil fuels in any way and have a look at how enthusiastic they are/were on renewables.
Good luck with that but you may well find them more heavily invested in fossil fuel companies.
This unfortunately is the truth of the matter in this country.
Ev is NOT the solution.
What is then?? U got something good?? Ffs
Solution to what exactly!
@@Incognito-turnip simple stop buying into propaganda
Mad Miliband will destroy the motor industry because of his obsession for net zero ideology…
They destroyed themselves by dragging their heels and throwing tantrums.
@@kevinmair7571Absolutely they run themselves into the ground and then either had to be sold like MINI brand or died and embarrassingly came back to the roads with MG owned by China who are building great cars. Gone are oh the quality is not there it is now matching anything European has to offer.
Not only the motor industry, but a massive chunk of our manufacturing industry which will lead to mass unemployment, poverty levels will go through the roof, life expectancy will plummet. People will starve and freeze to death in numbers not seen since the Great Depression of the 1920s. The guy is mentally deficient and obsessed with achieving the impossible, no matter the cost.
@@biggobmalc8118 yeah! He is a net zero psychopath.!
This mandate affects commercial vehicles as well. Stellantis are already talking about closing van production in UK.
I have to agree with you. The policy makers seem to think that everyone has off-street parking and easy access to a wall charger, but how many people live in flats, terraced houses or the like. The rush to EVs being the answer for all situations is just not sensible in any way.
I live in a flat we have 3 ev chargers there is about 55 cars on the estate imange if there was all ev and needed charging
The concept that everyone has to charge at home is driven by fossil fuel lobby. Jim Farley says average USA family do only 4 trips per year are over 150miles.
In other words with a 500km range, charging once per week is feasible. Sure, charging at home is cheaper than at public chargers and it's up to govt to address this inequality. Here in Oz we get free electricity between 11-2pm so are saving on running costs, our EV has depreciated from 50 to 40 in two years. Our next EV will have 100km more range, longer warranty, is larger, charge faster, more comfort features and advanced adas for 55k on the road. ($60k for even longer real world range of 620km )
It seems there is pressure by vested interests to keep Britain in the dark ages, hopefully govt can deliver safe smooth quiet modern motoring to the public.
And, it assumes everyone has electriciy. In Africa huge parts have hardly any electricity and old peugeot 404 and 504s abound. How is that going to work? How too are African farmers going to farm with electric tractors? Its all so idiotically rash it just blows my mind. Where, for example did the dates come from? Deepand considered investigation and scientific research and planning? No, just some EU drone deciding on a date because it wouldn't mess with their wedding or something equally scientific.
@@mickjoebills Be careful of statistics like what you quoted. A person may not drive over 150 miles from home very often, but most people need to take several trips per day. They don't have time to let the car charge in between these trips, thus the assumption that a person could survive with one charging per week is false. This assumption ignores the reality of how often people need their cars.
@@GameWithViiP3R Of course flats will install more chargers as the proportion of EVs increase. Profits from petrol stations will transfer to owners of EV chargers. That's already happening in places with higher EV adoption.
I’m afraid it’s about restriction of travel.
Exactly...control and limits to freedom of movement. Whatever happened to liberty.
Yeah I often feel restricted driving 23000 miles a year in my EV.
Absolutely agree with your comment 👍
@@LonelyTreeSunset So, what exactly would the benefits or advantages be to a Government, restricting the freedom of people's movement? You seem to have completely overlooked the fact that you're *already* restricted, because you are chained to the oil industry. If the Government wished to restrict your freedom of movement, they could do it from tomorrow by limiting the times, or the amounts of petrol you could buy. Why would they specifically need to wait for full EV adoption?
Can someone please tell me when they’re going to restrict me travelling around in a car because at the moment I seem to be able to go where and when ever I want?
I thought we'd left the EU - why are we still following their rules? Hardly any mention of Electric long distance lorries/buses/coaches etc. and what about air travel - how are they going to fit a battery into an intercontinental airliner?
What if no one buys all these new EV cars do they sit on airfields decaying ?
No, manufacturers' and dealers' parking lots. 🙂
they put them on sale and sell them. just like gas cars.
@@natehill8069 They put them on sale and try to sell them.
@@natehill8069 In Korea after the underground fire more people are selling than buying EV,s !
After a while standing around an EV will self-destruct
The first question that no one has asked is "In reality, how much do our ICE cars contribute to airborne pollution?". The reality is that it's a single digit number in % terms. So why are cars being attacked without there being a return on investment that makes ANY sense?
"So why are cars being attacked without there being a return on investment that makes ANY sense?" -- because you can't do maths ...
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 public transport is good! you might even get to meet people who don't think like you do.
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 The whole point of public transport is efficiency; i.e. it's supposed to be for times when lots of people are heading in the same direction. 10 lanes of "freeway" (read parking lot) traffic in LA is exactly the situation that public transport is for. obviously it doesn't do away with cars, but it can replace 65+% of daily traffic if done well.
@@TankEnMate Good luck getting to A&E if there aren't "lots of people heading in the same direction", then. I guess you think that's a small price to pay for "efficiency".
@@stevemawer848 if you need to get to the emergency department quickly then you call an ambulance. i think it is patently obvious that public transport doesn't fit all possible transport requirements, and even suggesting as such (in a backhand way) means you're not serious.
But do policy makers listen to the people? I think not.
Who asked for this in all truth? When do policy makers do what people ask and when do they simply do something to appear 'cool' and 'trendy'? I think the latter is massive.
MPs we vote for have no say about major policies. They are told what policy to implement.
As well as as the above comment we vote for someone to do there best for us NOT to do what you want as an individual and this is a very important distinction and why the people say they don’t do what we want. Not true.
"...cool and trendy" - I'm afraid the truth is somewhat more sinister. More like the vast majority of the civilised world is beholden to the same master.
You do know nobody is forcing you to by an EV unlike you have no choice about gasoline!
Policy makers do as the megga rich say not us
I don't know what UK charging prices are like but a Tesla Y Long Range in Australia will cost you around $AUD48 and take 27 minutes. That will take you around 316 miles. An equivalent ICE SUV In size would be a Kia Sportage. The Kia 2.2 Diesel would use 32 litres of Diesel times $AUD1.84 per Litre or $AUD59. This gap is the narrowest in two years as Australian electricity prices are rising faster than Ron Jeremy's appendage. The Kia would also take you another 59km before a fuel stop meaning one stop between Sydney and the warmth of sunny Gold Coast in winter time whereas the Tesla would require 2 stops just to be on the safe side.
The much lauded large operational savings of an EV simply are not there!
To be fair, charging at home is really, really cheap -- as in $1-3 AUD per charge. Especially using your home solar systems (in which case free apart from the system cost and cahrger cost of about $2000 AUD). Home solar systems in Australia are HEAVILY subsidised by the Government (to the tune of 50-60% IIRC). Obviously home solar may not be quite so useful in sunny England!
@TassieLorenzo Except that many EV owners live in apartments or innercity terraces with no off-street parking so charging is either not possible or not really cheap.
@@garyquinlan4075 Yes, owning a BEV without a home garage with a charger doesn't make sense at all.
@@TassieLorenzo Yeah, but who cares about those creeps (btw are they still walking around on all fours??).. the tyrannical oligarchy running everything have garages.. Sheesh..
New UK EVs - Dacia - £15k, forthcoming Renault 5 - £25k. Recent depreciation is partly a factor of deliberate price cutting of new models (esp Tesla) meaning a sudden big drop in 2nd hand values. The big price cuts were a specific one-time factor that aren't going to be repeated. For the over-priced old-school manufacturers there is a bit of reckoning coming - the Chinese and Tesla are making a profit at the reduced prices they can now charge - old-school manufacturers are making loss even at the high prices they charge.
Add to the list the Citroen EC3 at under £20k and the BYD Seagull with its sodium battery could be well under £20k when it gets here.
California invested heavily in hydrogen. Flop.
Synthetic fuel will always be more expensive than EV, because it requires 4x the electricity. Still creates air pollution.
It's a zero emissions mandate, IE zero at the tailpipe, it doesn't exclude hydrogen.
Hydrogen is only talked about as a delay to people switching to Bev's. Manufacturers have billions in engine plants and would prefer not to change. So they bleat about hydrogen combustion or fuel cells to delay them having to bother switching to EV. It's an insanely difficult molecule to have to deal with. If delivering liquid hydrogen to a forecourt it would take 14x as many trucks to deliver the same energy. Shell have removed their hydrogen stations from the UK and California as it's a huge flop. California is selling hydrogen at $36 per kg or 40p a mile. It's unaffordable.
Sorry but 60mpg is not a good enough change. My petrol swift did 60mpg anyway. Plug in hybrids simply aren't used, barely anyone bothers plugging them in. EU data showed they were barely better in real world use than a petrol car.
The MG4 starts at £26k right? So it's no more expensive than your hybrid. The hybrid batteries don't last as long, each cell within them has to do 4x the discharge rate Vs an EV to accelerate and likewise regen. They need 4x as many cycles to go the same lifetime distance, so they wear out more quickly. Hybrid's had their place, but 1997 wants it's technology back.
Sorry Ped but this shows how much you still have to learn about the technicals of these alternative fuels. Do a deep dive on them with Moggy or something.
Also, no one cares if tractors don't go EV as quickly, they barely matter.
HGVs are beginning to go EV, gridserve are launching a trial of a HGV national service. There's planning permission in for wetherby services to have an extension for 100 HGV chargers to be put in. Have a look.
And all this because of a fundamental flaw in emissions calculations, which means the country that “uses” but doesn’t “produce” all the parts of that vehicle doesn’t have to account for anything but tailpipe emissions. We are here because electrifying personal transportation was the lever governments could pull to keep their legal climate targets without having to do too much / anything themselves.
Bullseye.
.
EVs are only emissions free at the tailpipe.
@@stuartd9741 So the emissions are deleted from where the majority of people are breathing. Sounds good to me.
or force corporations to pull their weight. Profits over people...
Also the range estimates were outrageously inflated for marketing.
EV’s on average produce less carbon emissions at around 2 years or 24,000 miles when including production. Sadly this is in comparison to the tailpipe emissions of an ICE vehicle.
It does NOT include the production emissions of the ICE vehicle.
Most people in England can not afford ICE cars how are they going to afford an electric car.
I’m law abiding but i guarantee the way it’s going many law abiding citizens will be driving with no insurance, false plates, no tax & the government will have no idea how this happened…
They are building systems that are so easy to work around it's crazy. AI is being relied on to multi evaluate identity through FRT, mesh networks that encompass IOT, phone, car, personal products and even household goods, but those essential links are easily disjointed and suddenly their infallible system is fu**ed. As a small side note, the above is what is behind all the new mega data centres popping up globally.
Man they are fast at scalping sensitive comments...
As a wheelchair user, charging is the overriding issue Pete. My apartment can't support a charge point being installed unless radical thinking is incorporated. Public Charing also is an issue in terms of negotiating cables and plugging points into the charger. No problem getting out of my car at a petrol station on my own. If the two points I've raised were fully addressed then I'd be thinking of my next lease being electric ⚡
Not sure I fully understand how a charging station is more difficult for a wheelchair user than a petrol station. Many charging stations have dedicated bays for wheelchair users to give the extra space needed.
@@MikeF1sher I assume that he isn't planning on sitting by the car the entire time it's charging, so he would have to negotiate his way past a big charging cable. At a fuel station, he would fill the car and then be off.
@@MikeF1sherMaybe because you are not a wheel chair user you don’t understand. Maybe accept the opinion of the person that is a wheel chair user that it would be really difficult to navigate.
Anyone who thinks that using plants to grow fuel in any useful quantity is just dreaming. A multipronged approach is essential, no one wants to see good land gobbled up with solar farms for hundreds of kilometers. So a combo package of wind, hydro, solar, tidal, nuclear, storage batteries of various types etc. is the smart answer, you utilize resources that are available. This way your grid is more robust and immune to total failure.
Cattle and sheep graze equally well in a solar farm as not and in Australia where I am, the panels provide shade for the stock.
@@mikevale3620 mixing livestock and solar farms is not practical at all.
Its all about govts being able to control your life through the charging structure
The BEV market is saturated so who is going to buy all these new BEVs that they have to sell? The number of new ICE cars will have to fall to avoid the fines. This is madness. How many manufacturers will shut down? But fortunately the far east will be sending over nearly new ICE cars for us to buy. Toyota have said they will run the new cars round the block and send them over as used.
The percentage figures are what they have to make, not sell. Once made, they'll be sold at whatever price point they can be sold at, which should push the prices down. And as build percentages ramp up, economies of scale also ramp up, and they'll be able to make them cheaper.
But I think the government have done it wrong. They need to tax ICE, so that people buy EV because it's cheaper. And freezing fuel duty for over a decade doesn't do that.
Also, government should incentivise the dirtiest vehicles off the road, by perhaps providing grants, favourable loan or tax breaks to relpace or retrofit things like delivery vans and busses with EV tech, to replace the dirty diesels that are producing toxic gasses around cities.
Such a nonsence!
This all started at the wrong end of the market. A cheap single seat commuter vehicle would have boomed leading to a bigger take up by people in the long run.
Exactly,
China EVs manufacturers have created a EV super mini for around 12k. but the motor manufacturers, and the EU are putting tariffs on those cheap cars because
1/ western manufacturers.cant compete on price or technology.
2/ claims of Chinese government subsides artificially lowering the EV manufacturer.
Cant put a 1 ton battery in a small car without it being noticed.
The Sinclair C5?
The price of second had ICE cars will increase when the supply of new cars is limited to ev’s. The government will then increase fuel duty to force people in to EV’s.
At which people will start brewing their own fuel mix from Ethanol, hooch is easy and if you are not drinking it, it is difficult to go wrong, or biodiesel from cooking oil
Well the alternative would be to leave it all as it is now, and you happily continue paying one of the highest rates of fuel duty each time you fill up.........
@@Brian-om2hhIt doesn't matter. The cost of owning any vehicle is going to be down to what it's depreciated by, not what it costs to fill up. It's bizarre how people say how cheap it is running an EV but they never factor the biggest cost of ownership which is, of course, depreciation.
@@huwsparky175303Buying an EV to sell on in a few years indeed is not very cost effective. But if you are looking to keep that vehicle a considerable amount of time (and with low service cost and low maintenance costs why wouldn’t you) then over the lifetime that saving over an ICE is definitely there).
I was almost given an old low mileage Subaru Liberty a few years ago, it's in good condition as it sits in my garage and only gets a drive up my road about once a month. Since the great scam I've had so many people offering to buy it at more than ten times the price I paid, I feel I should have bought more oldies when they were cheap. I also have a 60's car that will be my lifetime of driving car, it should get me to the end and beyond. happy days.
Denmark is already living in 2028. Norway is probably even further into the future.
You are a tiny population with higher average earnings than the UK.
And oil is basically paying for the EV future in Norway.
@@ZerofighterviAnd Norway is the world’s 13th largest producer of oil, the biggest in Europe.
@@MrStevecrasher It's like boasting about having a high population of vegans whilst being a leader in the slaughter of whales.
@@Zerofightervi Norway still does kill around 500 whales a year, one of only three countries that still hunt whales.
@@MrStevecrasher Really?
So they're not as right on as I thought.
A friends neighbour had a focus diesel, that did the job perfectly, then she got an electric Hyundai Kona, I think, had the equipment installed at home, all was fine, until she went to her daughter in wales, from north Manchester. She got there ok, but when she was heading home the car was saying 10% remaining just a few miles into the journey, she was panicking , a woman in her 60s , on her own , in an area she didn’t know , in the dark , in a car that wasn’t going to get her home . She found a petrol station where the staff were very helpful, they phoned the AA, she is a member, who simply put the car on a trailer and took her home . She had done this journey many times in the Focus without problems. She now has a Hyundai i20.
Did she not charge the car up while she was in North Manchester?
@@jerrymyahzcat not the brightest are you . She lives in Radcliffe, charged at home , like I put ! Got to her daughter’s house , but wasn’t going to make it back. She had never charged away from home during the short time she had the car . Her previous car did the round trip on less than half a tank .
@@richardhowlett7398 Headline for that story
"Person buys an expensive product but doesn't learn how to use it"
@@timrothwell33 She just bought a car, missold, it would seem, as it did not have the ability to meet her needs in the way a normal car would have done.
@timrothwell33 my guess is that she was sold this by the dealer to meet given targets .
I have an apartment where I asked about installing a charger point on the outside of my ground floor property. Before I actually paid for the installation of the charger itself the admin costs were circa £5k. Think not.
and you would have put up your house insurance, and everyone else's too! If I was your neighbour and you did that, I would be demanding the difference from you!!
@@suecharnock9369 The hint was "I think not" They even had the brass neck to ask me if I thought my neighbours would agree to them installing charging points on our parking bays. At £5k a pop on service charges I think not. Can you see the theme here.
To be able to fit a EV charger that can charge at 7kW you need a minimum of 60a mains fuse that's not shared with neighboring properties. That 5k probably incorporates all the extra work required to upgrade you for that. Either that or they gave you a silly price to put you off.
In europe we use 230v 3-phase 16A total 11 kw.
That's the most common electric connection for a house.
Usually we lower the charging to 8 amps, 5,5 kw, that's enough for over night charging. It's only 1,8 kw from each phase from 3-phase system.
3-phase charging cable is about 150 euros, you just push the connector to 3-phase socket and you are ready to charge.
Uk network provider allows 2-5kw continuous Use per connection , the more you raise continuous use the stress on the grid increases accordingly 🤔
The idea that the targets are a firm line in the sand is total nonsense. The auto industry can lobby the government to change the rules and if they don't we can vote them out.
Bear in mind political parties are all agreed about EV's
cheeks of the same ass.
How many EV desenters have actually driven one? In my experience, very few. They are not afraid of EV, they are afraid of change.
Stupidest comment 😊
You're right, my neighbour let me drive his and I was really impressed. The only thing I don't embrace is the total reliance on a smart phone and the ability of the manufacturer to immobilize the vehicle remotely.
Taking a test drive and actually buying are two entirely different situations. I just bought a diesel because it suits my needs better and it is cheaper to run. What is happening to the car market is similar to the farming industry, it’s been manipulated to the point where the business is sterile and does not function as a competitive entity. This leads to the consumer being charged more through taxation and the producer reduces quality to save costs. As always, it is a race to the bottom and the politicians cream off what they can as long as the situation allows. A little simplistic maybe, but am I actually wrong?
There is no doubt EVs are fantastic bits of equipment. Fantastic acceleration, quiet, fewer moving parts etc. But once you consider ownership, upfront cost, depreciation and range anxiety, start to become real. Yup. I certainly am afraid of that kind of change.
@@richardhemingway6084Ownership costs are low as servicing costs are minimal and electric is cheap, buy used and you benefit from depreciation rather than suffer from it. And as to range anxiety, in the last 10 months the charging network has gone from 50k chargers to 66k. As I said, some people avoid change because they see issues rather than opportunity. It’s a state of mind.
I am viewing this from Queensland Australia. England can easily fit in a corner of Southern Queensland. Our travel distances are far greater than England and we travel further to our far flung towns and cities than people in England. EVs just don't measure up yo our needs. The infrastructure is extremely weak if present at all in our rural areas and the chargers are so slow it takes up to 12 hours to charge an EV in our rural areas. In the city and for someone who never leaves the City an EV may be fine but fast charging in Australia works out more expensive than premium petrol which is 95 octane. Governments want EVs to be a one size fits all and that will never work. The whole EV thing needs a massive rethink by governments especially as they are mandating one technology to the exclusion of all others and it may be one of the others that works better and fits the needs of more people in the long term.
My friend's Tesla is broken. It's been broken for 3 weeks now. No garage is able to repair it. But just the troubleshooting has already cost 2000 euros. Is that economical?
The ability of garages to repair BEVs at battery cell level, battery management system level and interverter board level is certainly a problem (especially when OEMs like Tesla use proprietary). stuff). It's basically a wholesale shift from repairing mechanical engineering based devices to electrical engineering devices. But in time, the expertise should be there. There are already "battery enthusiasts" who love balancing cells and building inverters, as opposed to the typical petrolheads who love building engines and tuning carburettors. 🙂
Where are these battery enthusiasts? They should already exist everywhere throughout Europe. But they don't.
Talking about the possibities in the future, is just wishful thinking.
@@vask3863 Refer to Robert from Aging Cars here on UA-cam! From collecting three electric Codas, souping up his electric lawn mower, repairing his electric Twike, and now building a twin-Tesla-motor Ford Escape -- he is a typical of a battery enthusiast. He seems to love nothing more than building battery packs!
There's another battery enthusiast who showcases their battery-swapped 2003 VW Passat they built in 2008. There's a wonderful DIY setup of inverters, fuses, chargers etc in the boot. He does work for Tesla, but that should be no impediment to battery enthusiasm.
At 68, and have a pension…. I could muster 4k as a deposit…
Now what 150- 200 quid out my pension each month till I die ??
It’s my old petrol fiesta for me I’m affraid , that’s an issue for thousands of us -
The Government (at least in the US) is by the people and for the people. The "PEOPLE" (most) don't want to be forced into an EV. Simple enough.
It’s not the people anymore - start with the WEF who are using “your government “ to gain “global” control. Listen to what Trump tells you. Taking it further - try and find real information which proves a climate problem. My own research has only given me emotional and not facts to prove there is while I can find plenty of facts (no emotion) to prove there isn’t a climate problem.
LOL - the government in the USA is for the rich and only the rich. Just look at your work laws, social care or health care. It's all about money, nothing else. Just google and compare what you call benefits in the USA is what we call human rights in Europe and the rest of the industrial world. BTW the USA signed the human rights charter that health, social, work are human rights, but it's the only country that did not ratify what they signed....
@@seanthiar I thought she might want to reconsider that statement.. if not that is absolutely classic bot talk.. LOL
@@alasdair4161 SO, because it's not perfect, opt for fascism? Good idea.
@@seanthiar Those folks in Europe better ne'er forget who saved their butts in 1945...
There is a lot to be said for improved hybrid tech. But I utterly disagree with burning gigawatts of electric to produce Hydrogen.... Which is massively explosive and difficult to store.
We have excess renewable energy at times which actually forces wholesale energy prices to go negative. We can't just turn off our nuclear and fossil fuel power stations so what can we do with that excess energy? We can store it in batteries but that's not a great solution but use it to generate hydrogen seems good to me.
Hydrogen tech is getting better all the time it hasn’t had the time and money spent on it like batteries have so far so it will get more and more efficient. Also battery powered vans and Lorrie’s and buses just doesn’t work for long journeys carrying large amounts of weight at all.
@@johnandrews2642 I admit the Cybertruck is stupidly slow in production. But 500 mile range is not nothing. Of course the Auzzie road trains are even bigger... and they are pulling 400miles on electric.... But it will take decades to sort out lorries to something cleaner.
@@stevecade857 With the excess.... Definitely, why not. It's made, so it has to be used.
@@stevecade857Hydrogen has a very low theoretical limit to its round trip efficiency. Once you add the building of hydrogen refuelling stations (costs are eye wateringly ridiculous) and transport of hydrogen to those stations, it's clear that hydrogen is way too flawed to compete with BEVs.
People need to do a deep dive into the science and economics of why hydrogen. It is then clear why only being funded by fossil fuels companies.
As from 1st April 2025 all EV owners who purchased a car registered after 2017 will pay £190.00 per year vehicle excise duty. As from 1st April 2025 any vehicle registered after that date costing in excess of £40,000 will pay an additional £410.00 per year, which is a total of £600.00 VED
Don’t worry, You will own nothing and be happy! 😁
Most new cars (ICE or not) are over £40k. That banding really needs to change.
@@theroadsnearyou...5088 You were born with nothing, you will die with nothing, everything inbetween is 'on loan' and thus we should treat it with responsibility.
I'm happy I don't live in the UK.!
Unfortunately, you lot are being taken by the throat and "Throttled" by the Politicians AND the EU AND the WEF. I'd say you are in a NO-WIN situation.
One of the big problems will be how to dispose of the batteries.,landfills are not the answer.
You couldn't dump them in landfill due to the fire risk as the cells degrade and also the toxicity of the materials. Just one cell going on fire is a major health and safety risk as it can start a chain reaction
Friend went to charge his Audi GT. got charged 80p per k/wh. It’s going back now and he is getting an ICE Audi. Crazy
@@Rabbitt-d6y It will likely do 3.5 miles per k/wh so 22p a mile. That 80 per k/wh is expensive but not untypical but Teslas would pay about half that. Tbh I don't know what a gallon. I would not be able to get anywhere close to measuring out a gallon.
@@Rabbitt-d6y At home you’ll pay around 7p per kw/h if charging overnight in the UK. So paying over well over 10 times that in public charging.
@@Rabbitt-d6y 80p per kWh is like saying £1.46 per litre. 1 kWh will take an EV 4 miles. 80/4 = 20p per mile. 1 litre will take a car 7.3 miles. £1.46/7.3 = 20p per mile. So he sent a car back because it cost him the same as a petrol car? Especially as 80p per kWh is the highest price seen. Tesla chargers cost 42p per kWh so that is 42/4 = 10.5p per mile and a lot of Tesla chargers are open to his Audi. Half the price of a petrol Audi. Someone at home on an overnight tariff pays 7.5p per kWh. 7.5/4 = 1.87p per mile - 1/10th the cost of petrol for an Audi. He just didn't learn maths at school.
@@Hitstirrer Not my choice, but another factor is the lack of high speed chargers for cars like the Audi e-tron. And it is 10 times more expensive to charge publicly compared to home charging. Rip off
@@Hitstirrer Why did have to be an arse with the last sentence??
Thanks for bringing this up. I agree, the problem is not EVs, but the government making it mandatory is just wrong! Also, we can not put all the coins in one basket, so as you said, sometimes even a diesel could be a solution for tractors and farm stuff, and every other source of energy could diversity, and therefore reduce the impact. Imagine the strain on the minerals to produce batteries if the whole world goes electric!!!
"Imagine the strain on the minerals to produce batteries if the whole world goes electric" Not a problem and that problem is kind of NOT POSSIBLE!
The Minerals used to create batteries keeps CHANGING. FYI LiFePO4 contains Zero Cobalt and Manganese.
It is arguably manufacturer fraud to😮 sell customers a car that lasts 20 years in the year 2030. We won't have enough gasoline to run the car in 2050! Peak oil already happened in ~2012 and we had a temporary reprieve from fracking but now a second peak oil is just about to happen!
There is only one EV charging station in the Australian Outback and it is powered by a diesel generator!😂😂🤣🤣
Do some math on the minerals. It is comparable less then e.g. iron.
I'm glad you mentioned the Renault hybrids. I delivered an Austral and it was ridiculously efficient, using hardly any fuel, while running on electric for much of the journey, and still managing to charge the battery from close to zero to 50% charge. Comfy, fast and well appointed too.
I think the EV manufacturers need to offer much longer warranties on their cars until confidence grows! This would kickstart the second hand EV market and help support the value of them. Nobody wants to take a chance on a secondhand EV incase of a large repair bill or huge depreciation loss. The UK charger infrastructure is also a concern!
EV’s Will Never Achieve More Than 10-15% Market Penetration. Here’s Why:
It is currently impossible to manufacture more than 8-12 million 65Kwh (average) EV batteries per year as there simply isn't enough material. By material I am referring to firstly Cobalt (Lithium Ion), then Phospherous (Lithium Iron Phosperous), then Lithium. Cobalt/Phospherous is required to stabilise a Lithium Ion/Iron battery, and prevent heating expansion, thermal runaway and ultimately battery failure and a very big fire.
All current lithium Ion batteries require approx 5% of the battery material to be Cobalt. Some may claim 3% (Tesla), but 5% is more realistic. Less than this and the battery simply can not retain charge, deliver the required power, or support the charging cycles required to be of much use, over it's "short" lifetime.
The average 65Kwh EV battery weighs in at about 350Kg, so a quick Calc gives us a Cobalt requirement of about 17kg per battery, based on 5% per battery, or 11kg bassed on the lower 3% figure.
We are currently able to either mine, dredge (sea bed/the future), reclaim, or recycle about 190,000 metric tones of Cobalt per year. Out of this we use roughly 40% of that for all non EV Lithium Ion batteries (phones, laptops etc). So that leaves us 115,000 metric tones of Cobalt for EV's, that's 115,000,000Kg of Cobalt. Each EV battery requires 11kg-17kg (3%/5%). We'll be generous and take the 3% Cobalt figure, 115,000,000kg/11kg = 10,454,545 (10.5 million) EV batteries.
We currently sell about 76 million cars globally. The UK alone sells 2.3 million cars every year, and by 2035 all cars sold will have to be EV's, or PHEV's. Please note I did not say we would be selling 2.3 million EV's in the UK every year, and nor did any government.
These facts are conveniently never mentioned in any government statistics, predictions, or manufacturer advertising.
This is the reason that EV's are so expensive, and will only become ever more expensive due to supply and very limited demand of EV batteries. This is also the reason why all the investors in British Volt have scarpered. The Chinese have already laid claim to about 75% of all the available EV “Materiel” supply. There is simply no point in building a Giga Factory here in the UK as we won't be able to procure the material (Cobalt/Phospherous/Lithium) required to manufacture EV batteries on a scale required to make it viable.
The only places where Cobalt is found in any quantity are countries like DRC, and Cuba, so not the most stable environments on earth, by a long shot. Also the mining and collection of Cobalt in these countries is appalling in terms of Human Rights, and conditions. All this is glossed over by the motor industry and governments.
I won't even start of the lack of infrastructure for EV's in the UK. We needed to spend some 2 trillion pounds on our Nation Grid infrastructure to support renewables, and EV's between 2025, and 2035. That was a staggering 90 billion every year for 10 years. We've currently spent virtually nothing! The reason for this are the facts laid out above. The government know all this, were mearly playing for time and praying to god that a miracle occurs in EV battery technology some time soon.
Sorry to wee all over the chips (insert joke here), but perhaps people need to start reading factual papers more, rather than following trends, and the trendy.
EV sales have now plateaued at about 16.5% of total car sales (265,000), that's because everyone that can afford to buy the latest trendy thing, at an inflated price, has already done so. To get to 2.3 million by 2035 we will need to add an additional 165,000 EV's to the previous years total every year up to 2035. So in 2024 we will need to sell 430,000 EV's, you get the idea? This is clearly not feasible, so by 2035 we may be selling, lets be generous and say 500,000 EV's a year. This will be down to cost and lack of supply. That leaves a yawing 1.8 million people waiting for a new car every year, year on year, because they can't buy a new petrol, or diesel car. This will take us right back to the 1960's USSR where waiting times for a Trabant was 10-15 years.
As an aside what ever happened to V2G (Vehicle to Grid)?
So 90% of all EV charging is carried out at home. That leaves just 10% of all EV charging to be done at a commercial operator station. No investor in their right mind is going to invest in a business that will only ever see 10% of the total market.
Just imagine if 90% of all ICE cars refuelling was able to be carried out at home. Do you think there would be the exact same number of petrol filling stations as there is now, servicing a poultry 10% of the refuelling market?
If this stands any chance of success, all “not at home EV charging” will need to be run by each countries state government, not commercial, or private companies. This will all have to be 100% funded by the tax payer!
EV's purchased by the public account for
Ah, telling the truth is not viable in government circles
LiFePo batteries don't use cobalt.
@@allencrider So ?
@@keithjenkins7919 Anybody home?
China is the largest car market in the world and already has 37% EV penetration. The batteries are on the way.
It will be a cold day in hell before I by a Chinese EV.
You don't want one then as batteries don't work as well in the cold. Best to get one now while global warming is keeping temperatures nice and toasty.
But you've got a smartphone which was almost certainly built in China, or a tablet or laptop perhaps?....You house is full of made MIC products but you won't buy a Chinese car....even though the car you drive today probably has a lot of MIC parts in it.
@@stevecade857 If global warming returns, enjoy it while you can, because the alternative is quite chilling.
@@JamesSmith-qs4hx Well it's now the get out clause 'climate change' now so it could get colder as well and man made pollution will still get the blame.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 There's an enormous difference between a company incorporated in a free and democratic country using Chinese made components, and buying a Chinese car.
Was anyone ever voted into the EU? I thought one of our bugbears with the EU was that it had too much power given to unelected bureaucrats?
You do realise that there were elections for your European Member of Parliament.
Nah BREXIT was mainly about racism. That didn't pan out for them so we had the riots from the few numpties that probably still think the economic consequences were a price worth paying to take back control.
@@organickevinlondon As opposed to most of the English government which is NOT elected.
@@natehill8069 WHAT Planet are you on ????
@@organickevinlondon MEP's don't have any power at all, they can't actually propose legislation. Nor can citizens nominate them. It's completely a sham to create the illusion of democracy. The actual people in power at EU have zero accountability.
Keeping my old car Dodge Avenger , and just bought a new petrol mg3 , i wont be held hostage by snowball policy .
As long as parts available and im able to repair ( im able to do my own work) i will save more money than EV can save .
That view is spectacular. I think the government should stay out of it and let the market decide.
But it effects other areas of our society. Tail pipe emissions account for 40,000 premature deaths a year. Climate change is the greatest current threat to our food production in the UK. Wouldn't be much of a government if they couldn't act on those facts.
@@willdclarke33 isn’t 40k a good outcome?
@@willdclarke33what a load of absolute tosh. Vehicles are cleaner now than they’ve ever been. Climate change is nothing but a scam. Non of the predictions have come true. As time goes on it will become more apparent.
If they did that last time around we would all be driving horses because cars need roads.
Yet they mandated things like catalytic converters and smog regulations, and in the long run that turned out for the best and improved urban air quality, no?
Money to be saved, BUT, insurance has gone up by fifty percent, so WHERE is that saving?
There’s one thing you can always rely on government to mess up
My Vauxhall is in the dealership now having warranty work done. It’s 2012 model with 47k miles lots of life in my car to go 😮 cos it has 52,000 miles to go on the warranty, 12 years and only half way through
Most of the car manufacturers that can't make an attractive EV at a decent price are the ones that said that Tesla would never be able to either. The challenge is there to be overcome by any that are good enough. So, yes, some will likely fail and be restructured, for being second rate. The same applies to governments and countries - those that solve the problems will leap ahead.
Chinese EVs just remind me of when Japanese cars threatened US and UK manufacturers in the 1970s - yes, Toyota and Datsun (Nissan) did eventually put British Leyland out of business - no doubt we will see this happen again... Am I worried, not really, just surprising that Toyota are so blind to the fact as it was this exact same strategy that made them such a large competitive car company in the first place.
If we all had electric cars and heat pumps they would have complete control of what our electricity would cost, do you think they would put the price up for the benefit of the foreign people that own all our energy generated thanks to our government!!
The CEO of Toyota has come out saying at best the total EV fleet will be 30% of the current fleet.
Many car makers are already moving back to ICE as no one wants to buy EV. Ford , GM , VW
Many EV owners who are second time around are going to hybrid.
Exactly, total reversal. Money talks.
But can we talk sense into green politicians? In my experience, they only see their ideology and fully ignore the necessities and facts that reality brings with it.
Have a listen to the Ford CEO in this very recent interview available on You Tube: Ford CEO Jim Farley discusses the rapid evolution of electric vehicles.
Really, where is the evidence?
Toyota is so far behind with EV technology they have painted themselves into a corner. Of course they are going to push hybrids, that all they have. No conflict of interest here at all. Toyota is also one of the *biggest* anti-EV lobbyists on the planet, right up there with the oil companies.
EV battery will need to be replaced after 10-15 years but it will cost more than the value of the car to replace. So your 10 year old petrol car would still work fine. They should let the product to improve to a point of conversion rather than punish people to buy expensive and not ready product. Now china car is getting better and cheaper but they are being blocked. So do they want net 0 or not?? I would buy a mini electric car for 5k from China rather than 16k here.
I've been told here in the States that there isn't an urban electrical grid in existence that could handle even 1/10 of COMMERCIAL vehicles switching to EV, let alone POV's. The infrastructure just isn't there, and would be insanely expensive to upgrade. Not to mention the ridiculous price of the batteries (in money and environmental damage), the all too frequent and under-reported vehicles that burst into flames out of the blue, the amount of trip time wasted waiting for your charge... I would be all-in IF the technology was mature, stable, and reliable. It isn't, and won't be for the foreseeable future, and these Green idiots know it. They want you home where they can keep an eye on you. Some of them even admit they want to do away with privately owned vehicles in favor of "community shared" vehicles... Welcome to your Socialist Paradise, comrade... but they'll still have their private jets!
Look into charge point (company) and blink then tesla storage factory etc the info structure is on its way
"The infrastructure just isn't there, and would be insanely expensive to upgrade."
Do you have any concept what the cost is to deal with climate change? Everything from wars that cost trillions to disasters, to climate migration. That's not even getting into destroying our coral reefs, and the arctic, causing millions of species to go extinct, the risks to the food web and ultimately the impact on the commercial fishing industry...
Upgrading the infrastructure is paying OURSELVES money and creating domestic jobs here. EVs are coming, either the US gets on board, or the Chinese will completely dominate the market and there won't be a US auto manufacturing sector in 10 years. Mandarin will be the primary language in Michigan, comrade.
@vell0cet517 Sorry, I get your point, but this has been worked on for the last 14 years. Plus, so yes, it can't handle it yet, but it is their and growing and those investing in it are making more than the oil tycoons why else do you think everything going on in the world is the way it is those behind the curtains are in panic mode
@@vell0cet517 you can add this one to the cost of Man Made Climate Change,
the next Pandemic, caused by the release of viruses currently unknown to mankind,
when the Artic Permafrosts thaw.
There is no such thing as a high quality Chinese car! My neighbour bought a BYD in February, it burnt his driveway in March! If you put your loved ones in an EV make sure you have a window breaker in the car because the electric door release does not work when it goes into thermal runaway.
Did it aye?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I would never buy an EV
That’s interesting as aren’t BYD’s supposed to use blade LFP batteries which are mooted as safer, being able to be pierced with a nail with catastrophic consequence.
The facts are an EV is less likely to catch fire than a ICE car - remember that multi-storey car park incident that was in fact an ICE vehicle. And vehicle fires in event are a very rare thing.
But the truth is an EV battery fire is considerable more difficult to extinguish than a ICE vehicle fire.
I’m an EV owner of 2 years and been driving ICE vehicles up till then - a vehicle fire has and still is the least of my motoring concerns.
@@michael.randall5034 you don’t have to for 10yrs. Even then there will be second hand ice cars so you do you.
I don’t have off street parking but I do have a 100mm drain pipe under the footpath that I send my charge cable down and the. I charge my EV on the street. My next door neighbour does the same.
Smart. You should probably wrap the cable in something to protect it from damage.
BioLPG in combination with hybrid is something that can be practically be done with little cost or need for much infrastructure...not heard a peep about it though really.
Thanks PP for some balance. I thought you might have mentioned the lack of after sales service, availability of reasonable cost spare parts and repair, which traditionally was an accepted part of the manufacturer's obligations and now appears to be zero for many makes, driving up non-repairable write-offs, driving up insurance and driving down resale. The industry is being forced to manufacture, they also need to be forced to meet 'reasonable' service and repair requirements for at least the period of warranty like they have done and do for ICE vehicles. That may also mean they may need to provide the training and facilities for that to occur. The out the door sales model which relies on being able to sort your issues with remote software access and "if we can't your stuffed", as I see it, is a big part of why buyers are not going there.
I wouldn't buy an EV until I could take apart and put back together the components myself.
Lots of people saying that the grid won’t cope. Current forecasts suggest that if everyone went EV now electricity demand would increase by about 8GW, which would put us back to what we were using in 2002 (demand has been falling since). National Grid has said that they can cope, there’s some interesting documentation provided by them about this.
The "lots of people" are the people with no actual knowledge of the subject
It depends what is meant by ‘The Grid’. I think the generation end of it would be fine, as you say, but the distribution network could requite a lot of investment in cabling and local transformers to handle the domestic demand for EV chargers. We’re looking at constant loads, not the usual domestic ones that spread across a few hours on average.
And that's not accounting for the replacement of gas boilers with ASHP's.
Good point - also with 2 million cars plugged into the grid that is a lot of battery storage for electricity that currently goes to waste plus it can be pulled back out the car for use in the morning peak
Good analysis of the situation.
Something else to consider, as I have just discovered is the hidden cost of owning an EV or in my case a PHEV. My previous car was a Rav4 Petrol and the insurance was £300 per year. My current car is the Rav4 PHEV and the insurance is now £1,250 per year. I also paid £1,100 for my home charger. The road tax is £410 per year on top of the standard rate, for five years as the car was over £40,000. So over the next 5 years I will be paying an extra £7,900 for helping the environment.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this car, but why are they fleecing me for trying to be green? I have heard that a full EV is even more expensive to insure. This is not the way to encourage us to switch, when a petrol car cost so little to buy and run.
Your problem is the UK insurance industry. The poor regulation and massive aversion to risk leads to these numbers. Just for fun i typed in my details using my dad's nice rural UK address and got insurance quotes for my Tesla. The quotes came back 25% more than i pay in Norway, despite all our ice and snow and hugely high labour rates. Plus the coverage was considerably worse.
I have a 73 plate rav4 phev and totally agree with you in every way.
You aren't being green you are being conned.
Statistics (facts) suggest that Hybrids are about 20 times more likely to catch fire than ice cars, which are more likely to catch fire than BEVs. That will have some impact on your insurance.
I went from a diesel straight to a BEV and my insurance went up by about £50.
The road tax increase had nothing to do with the PHEV, just the cost of your car. Mine was under £35k and so I've paid nothing in road tax since I bought it.
@@15bit62 Could it be that Norway for the most part is governed by sensible people?
Great video, very informative as always. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Why don't the car manufacturers tell the UK government to do one, about being fined £15k per EV not being sold, or they'll pull out of our market. What's Starmer going to do? Force the UK motor industry will go into financial meltdown with potential job losses!
IKR.
You'd have thought the manufacturers would stick two fingers up at governments,
They usually do regarding paying taxes..
They might have but the government are not going to tell the plebs
@@stuartd9741
Hi , Stellas or whatever their name is, is already talking of closing the Vauxhall plant at Ellsemere Port most probably want the government to give them more money, which Labour will do, but basically we have no main stream Vehicle manufacturers they are all owned by either China, India or France so closing down the UK would cause them no trouble as even Ford have closed all their factories even the engine factory in Wales.
Liebiur want ti shut down all of our manufacturing capacity, the numpties think that importing everything from China etc is greener than making things here. The UK is going to be like any other 3rd world country.
@@grahamconnolly3241 Stellantis 😆
EV prices will come down with production scales and there will also be the second hand market. Let's be honest, how many of us can afford to buy any new car? Also, who knows what the ownership picture will look like in 10 years time? What about the low cost brands joining the EV sales. Dacia project their EV to be the third cheapest car in the UK ... of all propulsion types. There are just so many variables.
The mandate by the EU/UK is misguided as the achievable reduction in global carbon emissions is less than 3%. Cars and vans contribute only 7% of global CO2 emissions and only some of that will be saved because 1. developing countries will not and cannot adopt, 2. Fossil fuels accounts for a substantial proportion of electricity generation outside the West, 3. EVs have a high initial carbon footprint and will likely have shorter lifespans than fossil cars. Partial adoption EVs in congested urban areas is a better policy in order to cut local emissions.
1. We need to reduce emissions in all sectors. Cars/vans don't get a pass because they're "only 7%". If the world worked this way, all the seven percenters could just put off doing anything until the other higher emitting industries have spent years reducing their emissions. Nonsensical. Every sector matters, has to get on with it, not whine, "no, you first, because you're bigger".
2. Yes, fossil fuels (mainly gas, sometimes coal) account for most electricity production in many places around the world, including high-income countries. In many low-income countries, hydropower accounts for much more than 50% of production. In almost all countries, the one thing that is growing fastest by percentage YoY is solar and sometimes other renewables such as wind. Just as the West (and the UK) is demonstrating how viable decarbonisation of the electricity grid is, those cost reductions will enable renewables to work in lower-middle income and lower income countries too.
3. Lifecycle emissions for conventional fuel cars are consistently higher vs e.g. Tesla (US battery) cars. The argument that EV batteries need replacement after 5 years has been debunked so many times it's unreal.
See Carbon Brief's factcheck article, and even that was from 2019. Since then, the EV manufacturing process has become more efficient, uses more locally sourced renewable energy and so you can literally buy a new EV, drive it for a few years at 8,000 miles per year and within 2-5 years you're already emitting less CO₂ than pretty much any conventional car, including the Toyota Prius "Eco"s of the world.
All this BS for what, 3% Carbon apparently. Wow, looks like these politicians failed their maths at school.
2:00 "It's BOILING out there!" What, 75°? (that's 24°C for the rest of the world)
3:40 You can mandate sales percentages all you want, but you can't mandate people buy them. All this will do is create an enormous black market in ICE cars.
7:00 The full-life carbon footprint of an EV is larger than an ICE car, by a bunch. Nearly twice, in fact. Not only is battery manufacture and disposal environmentally devastating, but you have to replace your EV twice as often as an ICE car. It's not the car per se, but the battery. No one is going to spend the cost of a new car to replace the battery only to have a 10-year-old car at the end. I'm still driving my 50-year-old Alfa GTV (built 50 years ago next month) and it's going strong at 670,000 miles (1,080,000 km). I've had two engine rebuilds (at 165K and 621K) and one transmission rebuild (at 450K). There is no way a battery EV would ever work in my driving situation.
7:30 You want to see the true demand for EV's? Stop subsidizing them. Sales will drop to the low single digit percentages.
11:30 [Folks turning in their EV's for ICE cars] That should tell you all you need to know. EV's meet the transportation needs of about 10% of the population (mostly city dwellers who never have to leave town). A decade ago, when Tesla started becoming a big deal, I made a prediction that EV's would never top 10% of new car sales, for that very reason. Despite all the government incentives, fleet buys and employer perks, that's just about where they topped out and are beginning to slide.
This guy can't find any shade
24 is cool here in Oz. He needs to experience 40plus.
@@partymanau - 24C is cool everywhere. It's just that Britain has an odd sense of "hot".
This guy needs to provide the sources of his claims to sound remotely credible!
Just a few comments on this. Hydrogen will never be a fuel for personal transportation. The reason for this is that the production, storage and transportation of hydrogen takes far more energy than it does to simply fill the battery in an ordinary EV. Hydrogen can't be produced at a remote location and trucked (like gasoline) to fuel stations. The physics of that make it impossible. Hydrogen is not a liquid that can simply be poured from one tank to another, it is gaseous and it must be stored at 700 bar (10,000 PSI) in a tank. Hydrogen stations currently in use make their hydrogen on the spot, which is then dispensed into fuel cell electric vehicles. It costs $36 per kg for hydrogen and your average hydrogen powered car (Toyota Mirai) holds 5.5 kg of hydrogen fuel and has a range of only 300 miles. You can do the math on that one yourself. Additionally, those hydrogen fueling stations require time to electrolyze the hydrogen out of water, compress it to 700 bar and then finally store it in a small tank for dispensing. It takes 20 minutes to recharge the tank in between each car. So, in short, just get hydrogen out of your mind for personal transportation. Synthetic fuels will never be for anything larger than boutique industries like automobile racing. It's expensive and requires carbon dioxide to be extracted from the air to actually make the fuel. Additionally, synthetic fuels are more expensive than gasoline and once a demand develops, they will be even more expensive than gasoline. Laying the blame on the politicians for EV mandates is not going to solve any problems, and here's why. Currently a Chinese EV is double the price of an ICE car in Europe only because Europe has imposed a 46% tariff on the imports of Chinese EVs. Once the Chinese find a way to get around the tariffs, the gloves are off. Rumor has it that Chinese companies are already building EV plants in Italy. European automakers can certainly insist that the politicians all be voted out, but it won't matter once the Chinese find their way in and start selling a $12K EV. Legacy European automakers who don't realize that this invasion is coming are doomed to failure. So sure, keep buying gassers from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.... They'll all be out of business in less than 3 years if they don't get on their EV game. In China EV sales topped 60% this year (2024) and will be headed to 80% by the end of 2025. The same is going to happen in Australia in the very near future as domestic automakers in Australia simply don't exist anymore and they don't have tariffs on Chinese cars. Yes, there's a problem with EVs for people who don't own a house with access to a charging port, but that is a minor problem considering what's going to happen to your auto industry if you don't get on the stick. Fast charging batteries (10-80% in 5 minutes) are already making their way into Chinese cars and once you have that kind of speed for recharging a battery, the gas advantage of fast fueling falls to the way side.
I'm so glad you mentioned that these policies are made by the politicians that we voted into power, because one of the first things that Kier Starmer announced was the rolling back of the all EV sales from 2035 to 2030. There seems to be an intransigence amongst these politicians to even consider that there could be better and more realistic technologies available.
Do remember that the Tories signed us up for net zero in 2019. One of the only good things they ever did.
Nothing like a bit of virtue signaling
Hihihi! The argument that “they’re forcing it down my throat!” Is just plain dumb. Ok, I hate automatic transmissions. I think they’re lazy, stupid, and people who prefer them are hopefully physically impaired in such a way that doesn’t allow them to drive a car properly. I also hate air conditioners. They a drain on power and take up space. Do you hear people making the same argument that automatic transmissions and air conditioners are being forced down my throat! If you don’t hear that argument please stop saying it for other automotive evolutions like EVs.
i have an EV and CANNOT charge from home, i depend on public network, its due a change at the end of this year, will i have another?...... hell yeah, 100%, you just have to adapt/change and do your homework on how and when and where to charge, yes its not quite as easy as a fuel station (yet) but its a 5th of the price to do the same mileage in whafting silence with instant acceleration, and for that, until the network catches up, i will persevere
I don’t think you will find the current cost benefit will last, even in Norway, perhaps the most successful to date, are removing the state subsidies and costs are slowly rising. They have a real benefit of lots of cheap sustainable hydro sources. Wind and solar are not scaleable solutions
I cannot charge at home and live extremely rural over 12 miles from nearest just single chargepoint. Solution please
@@Tracertme The cost-benefit will last here in Norway. They are slowly adding taxes at purchase, but those only apply to more expensive cars for now and the phasing-in will continue to favour cheaper cars (and thus poorer people). We also get a big reduction in road tolls, and the government has committed to those always costing substantially less for EVs.
We are also scaling wind power quite heavily 😀
@@pixie706 Why can't you charge at home, out of interest?
@@pixie706
It's unusual to be rural and not have anywhere to place a charger. They don't build apartments in rural locations very often.
If there really is no way to have a charger at home, then you'll have to use a granny lead (not recommended and slow), or you'll have to fine somewhere local to charge.
why do you need such high horse power outputs for battery electric vehicles ?
Very good question!
You do not! The Dacia Spring battery electric has a generous 45bhp output! A scintillating 59bhp is optional.