Which is better: Formula or ILF Recurve Bows?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 тра 2022
- Is the @hoytarcheryofficial Formula bow better than the ILF bow? Lets find out if the Hoyt Formula Series Riser and Limbs are any better than the ILF Riser and Limbs. I put the Hoyt Xceed and Velos Limbs up against the Hoyt Formula Xi and Velos Limbs to lay this debate to rest!
Check out the Xceed here: collabs.shop/o5afyh
RCore Grips Can be found HERE: rcore.co?aff=5
Use code kaminski for 10% off!
Consider Supporing my Channel
UA-cam Membership: / @jakekaminskiarchery
Check out my website jakekaminski.com for the many ways to support my channel; Books, Apparel, Patreon, Digital Coaching and more!
Check out new Apparel:
www.zazzle.com/store/Jake_Kam...
Support this channel on Patreon:
/ jakekaminski
*Send Cool Stuff To:
Jake Kaminski
P.O. Box 742
Bronson, FL 32667
Send me Cryptocurrency!
Bitcoin Wallet: bc1q43y5ktt760gf2e4g6rclwv4hkg6hm5ljg4ldhx
Ethereum Wallet: 0x4144237C85978c43671206D69D666fe6E0e50355
Dogecoin: DJf31rygfsWwSRqudLCC9FYekJfLBXVAQJ
Bitcoin Cash: qz2wy3568wnfp3dzmk6m5h7nq2u8wm34xq3urkppzz
Ethereum Classic: 0x118A4a0cA5Ad03FE401Db5059f83E28D61859cc6
(if you have others I can post other wallets)
Social media links:
/ kaminskijake
/ jake_kaminski_
**Disclaimer: Jake Kaminski participates in the Amazon Associates Program, Links to amazon.com or amazon businesses and advertising fees are given to the owner of this channel. Affiliate links are helpful to this channel, and is a way for you, the individual to contribute to this channel by clicking on links and doing normal amazon shopping (without spending any money outside of your norm.)
*Items sent to my P.O. Box cannot be returned.
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #97 ЧЁРНАЯ МАТЕРИЯ [Анти Скинт] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k4MjXCzKsYw/mqdefault.jpg)
I love these analytical videos, nobody else is doing anything like it for archery. A database for draw force curves would be awesome and I wish manufacturers would just publish them, I've seen Border do it at least.
I second that
The Tradlab is
Agreed great video, but yes Cody at the Trad Lab is doing this as well with a very wide variety of single-string bows. Go check it out here, at The Push podcast and on his website.
I have owned 5 pairs of Velos formula limbs. And have found that they can vary considerably from their marked poundage. For example, a 38# set in the same riser measured 38# with bolts at the mid setting. 42# limbs measured 42# with the bolts fully out. The problem for me was that I was trying to move up in draw weight. My 38# limbs drew 40# with the bolts fully down. I figured that if I moved up to 42# limbs I should be able to get them down to 40# with the bolts turned fully out. But as mentioned above, the lowest they would go was the 42# marked on the limb with bolts out 8 turns. (Yes I know, 2 more than recommended)I questioned this with Hoyt as this left me with a 2# space in weight between limbs. They advised (both their distributor and Hoyt USA) that they have a 5% weight tolerance on all of their limbs. And would therefore not consider swapping them out. I ended up having to buy 40# limbs to fill the gap.
Putting aside the terrible customer service from Hoyt, your result of 1-2% difference is less than Hoyts own 5% tolerance. Which means your results could vary considerably with different limbs and I would be very careful using them as justification for buying Formula over ILF. The weight range results were very interesting though, and given the minor and possibly tainted results for efficiency and speed would seem to support buying ILF.
I can't think of anyone in the archery community who has put out as much high level info as you have, which is saying a lot because there are dozens and dozens of really excellent channels.
It's GREATLY appreciated by so many of us. Thanks Jake!! Can't wait till you crack 100,000 subs.
Thanks for the support and the Super Thanks!
Thank you for making this channel! I am finally looking at starting up archery and your videos have been so informative!
This is a great comparison, thank you.
I wanted to also suggest doing a force curve test and speed test of the concept you explained earlier of 27" riser + short limbs giving you a more efficient feel while maintaining forgiveness, compared to 25" riser and long limbs for example. A good idea would also be to match the draw weight of each of the combinations for the test, so we can test what what configuration at a certain draw weight feels like in terms of efficiency, and how much speed benefit we can actually gain with wiser equipment decisions.
For most people, its not particularly convenient to test several limbs, pondages and riser lengths to understand what's actually going on and how it would feel and help debunk some deeper workings of archery.
hey jake, great video with really in depth data, thanks for putting in the effort.
i instantly remembered, when you were shooting the xi at 70 first time on video you said you apparently feel strong today because it feels easy to get through the clicker, that fits your data from the draw curves :D
Always enjoy the review's, great information, thank you Jake.
I love how much detail you put into your content. I got interested in ILF vs Formula a week ago, when a buddy showed up at the range with a pimped-out olympic bow featuring Hoyt Formula (dunno which riser or limbs it had exactly).
Thank you for the video.
Thanks for the Super Thanks!
Great video Jake! Very useful and clarifying data!
I was one of those that asked for this video Jake, thank you for listening!
Love the information that you compiled.
Great job, congratulations !! I am grateful that I found your video, because I am going to move up in my equipment and I did not have a clear view between ILF and Formula bows, but your data I made up my mind. You have great graphics and I praise your dedication and effort to make this video. Congratulations again. Greetings from Mexico city
What about your experiences regarding your decisions? What did you buy ?
i have a hoyt tiberon which i use always bare bow but now but I'm just buying an exceed because of the fact of limb availability mainly but after watching this video and the outcome
it will be interesting to see the difference.
thank you,great info
Thanks for the comparison/analysis !
Hi Jake, great video as usual! I think it would be nice to compare top level limbs from different brands because if hoyt is trying to promote the formula system, it is logical that the performance is better than ILF. But maybe between hoyt formula and ILF MK, WW, Fivics, the result is different?
Keep the videos coming! You are a great role model as an archer, as a teacher and as a expert person who shares their knowledge for free.
Excellent comparison video, I would love to see the same comparison all peripherals equal except between the Exceed riser and the sanlida miracle for a comparison.
Fantastic video. I had a bit of buyers remorse going for the formula system as i've realised how expensive it is to grow with my bow. This helps me justify it a little. But it seems I'd you have deep pockets a formula is slightly the better choice. Ilf can take you from learning to competitive and to the Olympics for a lot less. Thanks Jake for some great content and I'm really glad you didn't compare shot against shot as there are too many factors.
Hey Jake, great comparison between the two. Tried both of them and definitely liked the Formula more. Quick question about the string tension technology: do you think the draw force curve changes between string tension settings?
Recently been switching between a ilf and a formula Ion-x. Find the formula to feel much more sweeter and forgiving. Smoother during draw and compatible at anchor. Tuning took a bit of endurance but glad I didn't give up on the formula. Really enjoy shooting with it. Limbs are X-tour shorts on formula 25 riser, 26" draw. Great comparison video as usual, thank you so much.
GREAT Info, super comprehensive comparison!!!Awesome to see you back tinkering with the science toys again BTW! So for me, quite happy with my ILF, mainly love having the variety of options and being able to experiment with new stuff, and knowing I can source a pair of short term limbs on the cheap if I need to drop down due to injury or experiment with tune setup or something. But after seeing this, formula seems more compelling than it did before. Less variety, exclusively top tier prices, higher efficiency, less range of adjustment... all seems geared for top tier shooters who know exactly what they want. Maybe if I get good enough one day formula will draw me in.
Hope you do this with more bows and show the data like a list for wich is best like hoyt vs others
Very interesting video. At least the formula-system holds up to Hoyts marketing.
A couple years ago Hoyt had two different geometries of formula-risers. Would be interesting to have such comparsion of the traditional Hoyt geometry (Formula RX, Prodigy RX, Factor) and the Hoyt performance geometry (Formula HPX, ION-X, Prodigy, Prodigy XT Factor HP).
Good video, I use Kaya 3's they feel way better than their predecessors which is all that really matters to me !
I doubt if you can do enough tests to definitively say, but it would be interesting to see if the test repeats with different limbs, both other sets of the same limbs and alternates, how much of the difference is manufacturing tolerance, effectively does another set of the same have the same result
Many thanks for this video, which is coming for me in the time,when I decide between Xceed and Formula. I am a beginner, so that more flexibility on Xceed would be good for me. BUT the efficiency f Formula were possibly an advantage in the future. I can not ti say which model I will to buy.
Look in the Machinery's Handbook under 'Fulcrums'. There is a leverage factor between the two pocket designs which is why you are getting slight differences. I chose to go with ILF due to limb availability with different manufacturers.
I was surprised that the percentage limb weight change was so different, for the average shooter the greater choice of limb with Ilf would be the deciding factor imo, as the slight efficacy gain in formula will be undetectable.
thanks for the video!, would be interesting if you could test bow lengths in a similar way. say 23 vs 25 vs 27.
I love the analytics Jake, which one feels better in your opinion?
what a great video, thanks! seems like ilf makes sense, maybe formula if you've reached a draw weight you're happy with?
Jake you make great videos. If only my English wasn't so bad so I could learn more
Jake can you please review the Hoyt Arcos riser? Just bought it and I would love to see a review from you!
I love your love on data !
Jake,
I remember in one of your previous video, you had talked about the draw weight measure takes different weight measurement from the actual on finger due to finger shooter the way of contacting the string. The form of actual on finger will give bow more draw weight than a simple hook.
I tested this with the same draw length on the Sam bow, while use a D loop to mimic finger form. It will increase about a pound draw weight. What’s your view about this?
thx jake i am shooting ilf and i tink i gonne stay whit it even te test show good results fore te formula but i can buy e cople limbs and some new arrows for less mony than i have te buy e new riser and new limbs thx for putting up al this content i am learning every week more and more thx to you channel.
This is a bit off topic but can you in the future address yourself to what features one should look for in recurve bows, arrows, and limbs used in barebow in contrast with olympic style archery. Or does it matter at all? Thank you for all you have done for archery.
Love the data!
I’ve got the Xceed ILF, never used the Xi, but at least you switch limbs with the Xceed… awesome riser.
That was really cool to see
Hi Jake, In a previous video, you indicated that it is a rule of thumb that a longer bow is more forgiving. Would be interesting to compaire an 25 inch Exceed riser with long velos limbs with a 25 inch Exceed with extra long velos limbs. It would be interesting if you found a difference that would suggest an explanation for the rule of thumb. Best regards, Sebastian
great video, thanks
I think the difference in draw weight adjustment range was the most interesting takeaway for me. At my club I introduce novices to the sport and am often called upon to guide new archers in their equipment buying journey. I’ve typically steered novices and intermediate archers towards ILF systems for the great variety of options it gives them while they’re developing, and is incredibly important for those that want to enjoy the sport on a budget. The fact that a developing archer would need to go through more sets of limbs with Formula than with ILF is significant. It does reinforce for me the opinion that Formula really is for the better funded archers, and that growing youths and those of us from more modest socioeconomic backgrounds should stick to ILF unless they land sponsorship. Or maybe consider it a luxury upgrade after a developing archer has reached their target draw weight.
I’d be cautious of drawing any real conclusions on the efficiency of Formula vs ILF with such a small sample size and such a marginal difference. I love this test that you’ve done and I definitely think you should continue to do them, but I think that without a larger sample size we don’t know what the manufacturing variation on the limbs is. For example if the manufacturing tolerance is 2% then the difference between your ILF and Formula samples could just be accounted for by manufacturing variation.
Great video all up. A shame you lost the footage of the initial tune but your honesty is appreciated. Pleased to see the commitment to integrity!
After watching Jake kaminski at the Olympics while in highschool; I'm watching him make the Project Farm esc channel of archery. Nice.
Great video! I invested too much into ILF to change. I'm a worse archer than the 2% I could gain :P.
Great analysis, Jake. I'm keeping my ILF since it gives me more adjustment range, probably I'll change only when I'm near my desired bow poundage to gain those extras.
The only thing is, now every time I struggle with the clicker ( those days when you're tired and it starts to feel unsurmountable) I'll be thinking "why didn't I bought Formula" 😅
Why Formula have to bee better than ILF regarding the clicker ? Thanks
So forgive me if I missed the information. For the chart, are bolts the tightest?
Hi , I'm going to buy a bow .And I'm wondering about 2 riser : Wns delta LX and Wns delta NX .What should I choose ? Can you please give me some advise ?
Speaking of ILF compatibility. I bought some Hoyt ILF limbs and put them into a W&W riser and it was... painful. The Hoyt limbs fit so snugly into the pocket that at first two people needed to pull on the limbs to get them out - later on I lubed them up to even have a chance.
Trad archer here, used a W&W RCX 17 (a.k.a. Black Wolf) Riser with Hoyt Satori limbs. Now switched to Uukha because of the compatibility issue among other things and these fit perfectly.
I think variation between same model limbs could account for the 1.5% difference in efficiency. The ILF system makes things easier for archers and rather than undermining it, manufacturers would do well to work towards a standardized system of assessing limbs and risers so that we can make informed choices rather than blindly buying into the latest marketing hype. I recently bought a riser which gave me 4# more than expected because of non standard geometry.
hi there: what is the different of the Bamboo limbs and form limbs on a ilf on a 25 inches riser 50 pound limbs?
May I know what's the colour of your XCEED riser? Doesn't seems to match that in Hoyt's official website. Thanks!
Hello Mr. Kaminsky, I am a barebowman and am currently shooting a Gillo GT 25 and would like to shoot the Hoyt Formula XI as a barebow, is that possible? Are there weights and a wooden grip for retrofitting the Hoyt? Please excuse my English, I'm from Germany. LG A.John
There's heaps of data in this video but if you were buying one over the other what you buy based on how each bow felt to shoot?
Thanks!
Thanks for the super thanks!
One other consideration, if you should barebow, Formula has a smaller sight window which may interfere with your ability to aim at certain distances/angles.
My background is more in statistic than engineering, but I think 1.5% to 2% difference in efficiency between the set ups is not significant; especially when you are testing only one bow of each type.
I hear you, but on the flip side 1-2% can make ALL the difference at the top, But does this 1-2% equate to more tens? Nearly impossible to tell!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery also, it's only one set of limbs each. I wonder if it's statistically significant after checking multiple sets of limbs.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery if it's impossible to tell, then you can't reject the null hypnosis, that there is no difference.
You can't buy 10's and Hoyt can't sell them.
@@Waltham1892
But there IS a difference, the only question is 1) can you feel it, and 2) does it equate to higher scores.
Physics and mechanics alone proves that a difference does exist - unless you can prove altering the length of a fulcrum has no effect!?
@@NPC-fl3gq if we accept Jake's findings as correct and representative of both IILF and Formula limbs and risers, the different boils down to 1.5% to 2%.
That's a pretty low bar for "the next big thing in archery".
If I remember correctly, Jake tried Uukha ILF limbs and found a larger increase in efficiency.
Maybe they are the next big thing too?
Or, maybe testing one bow and one set of limbs doesn't tell us much.
Great comparison video, I mean really unless you're Olympic or World Cup level, there's no real reason to shoot Formula?
Another thing Jake, have you heard of the Victory VXT arrow that came out a couple years ago? Like a semi X10 with a taper in the rear portion of the shaft and good for both recurve and compound (apparently). Is there a chance you could get a set and test them because you're probably the best person for the job at this moment.
Not sure how feasible this is but I would love to see you compare two pairs of the exact same limb, for example two 40# ilf Velos to see the quality control between pairs.
I started seriously shooting abt 4ish mo ths ago, I picked up a mybo wave, which for my first olympic recurve bow is a tad expensive but i wanted a solid riser that can grow with me. I think the main thing for me with ilf is the availability of limbs, its so much cheaper overall as well, and if I rly start fine tuning and shooting great i dont see a point in changing to something else that i wouldnt feel as comfortable with but i dunno. im biased 😅
I started also seriously shooting at 4ish months ago . I am going to buy xceed, because I expecting, that I will be stronger in some time, so that the flexibility of ILF would be basic advantage.
The differences in DW change between the two was basically a matter of geometry. The draw weight change via the limb bolts comes about from changing the angle of the limb to the riser. Since the Formula limbs move the limb bolt farther from where the limb pivots, because of that and assuming the limb bolts to have the same thread pitch, the "six turns" was bound to make less of a DW change than for the ILF limbs. Tis was a choice Hoyt made by sticking with their "six turns" limitation. By changing to slightly longer limb bolts that would allow more turns, they could have built in more DW change.
As to the measured differences between the two bows, the differences were small, so small that they are probably comparable in size to those you would have acquired had you chosen to compare two pairs of ILF limbs or two pairs of Formula limbs. That is, I suspect that the differences noted are not significant in many cases. Or you might say they were not based upon the limb pocket designs but the normal variations between pairs of limbs.
I want to laud you for doing these tests! Many factory-sponsored archers do not dare as they might end up with data that undermines the manufacturer's selling points. You presentation was neutral, no labeling of one as "best," etc., just that their specifications are different and who might be a good fit for which bow.
Good job, sir!
PS When measuring draw weight, it is generally not a good idea to back up if you get past the draw length you wish to test at (because hysteresis). The standard procedure is to let down and try again. If you have checked out that hysteresis is not a problem, it might have been a good idea to mention that as you are an exemplar for so many, and they might get into bad habits. (A way to check that is to run your draw-force curve program backward. If hysteresis is a problem, you will get two slightly different curves (coming and going).)
what string tension setting was this at....although assuming it would make only a minuscule amount of change
performance setting.
@Jake: If do a test with 2 identical limbs (2 pairs of ILF or 2 pairs of Formula) you will see as well 1% or more difference. This is die to manufacturing.
Yes there is not enough of a sample size to even think of finding the Standard Deviation within the so called "identical limbs". We also don't have a confidence level on whether the difference seen in this test is real or by chance. It is good start, but not enough here to give solid conclusions.
Talking about actual performance, i suggest if possible to use each bow during a full week or two, daily and trace each day score, so that we could see if one system is actually giving more points than the other.
Also is pending the flex plot test, being that the formula most used selling point.
Great video and analysis!!!
I have been shooting a GMX and an ION-X for years, I also own a FAKTOR
In particular, I have now equipped all 3 with XTOUR bamboo
All 3 are fantastic, GMX remains the best ILF ever tried
But the difference between ILF and FORMULA has always been substantial
ION X easier under cliker, gentler in traction, much more effective in speed and performance
The Faktor defends itself well, but is perhaps a step below despite being FORMULA
In my experience, HPX with F4 or F7 is also a good match
Rather dissatisfied with other versions, such as EPIK - PRODIGI - QUATTRO limbs in general ... both products have always given me the impression of not having the advantages found in the rest of the HOYT range
What's weird is that the Formula still showed marginally stiffer, even with higher draw weight and faster speed.
I still suspect, but don't have the equipment or resources to test, that most archers will see a similar change in "smoothness" as they would see by switching to Formula by switching to 2" longer limbs (so Formula 25+med and ILF 25+long). This would increase the disparity between efficiency however. Conversely, most archers would see similar additional efficiency by shooting a longer riser (ILF 27+med), but would lose out on the smoothness. The Formula system effectively creates a best of both worlds scenario.
Thankfully, I don't have to use Velos limbs on my Xceed: I can use W&W MXT limbs, which are plenty smooth and fast. IIRC, the showed similar gains in efficiency in your previous tests.
So your better sticking with the ILF fittings as there's more range on the limb bolts and more choice of manufactures.
As there was only a very slight performance advantage with the Formula riser in smoothness through the clicker that Jake didn't even notice.
Once you're good enough that that small difference will matter, Hoyt'll offer you a steep discount.
Brilliant video Jake. A 1% increase in speed is totally *not* worth getting Formula for.
I like the idea of the Formula, and I'm curious if moving the anchor/pivot points, like happens in some compound bows, has a positive impact upon performance and feel. My personal choice is Border CV9H limbs, being just about the most extreme Super Recurve limbs available, and they also have a very short bracing height (6¾" - 7¼" on their own risers, which have a very large deflex. I shoot a Spigarelli Revolution riser, which has a standard deflex, but would love to try the Gray AIX which has zero (or near enough zero) deflex, but incredible damping as does the Spigarelli - which is why I chose it.
Quanto custa um arco deste em reais brasileiro?
So if both were the exact same draw weight, would the bare shafts show more stiff for the formula or the ilf?
More stiff for the formula.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery thank you. Great video by the way. I really enjoy seeing the graph showing the draw weight to draw length for each limb plotted against each other.
I use a Xceed with the limb rockers all the way in (on a side note, this apparently makes them feel more like a formula) and with Uuhka VX1000 xcurve limbs. This means that the same curve should have very little increase in draw weight around full draw. So I believe this makes it more forgiving because the draw weight varies less if you have a bad release... or anything that effects the draw length. On the downside it's much harder to feel when you are going to go through the clicker so I can have an issue with being at full draw for too longer time.
I landed on this idea based off of your graphs on the Uuhka vs the Velos vs the Win&Win limbs. As well as your review of the xceed riser when talking about the limb rockers. It's served me very well in recent competitions.
Thank you for your videos.
Thanks for review! But there is one obstacle in measurements, Formula has shorter working part of shoulder... technically that's about 1" shorter limbs than ILF you compare!
As you say before in other your video, you prefer short limbs with long riser, to get the same string length and string angle at your draw, but shorter limbs store more energy with the same poundage, and gives little bit more speed.
So with this compare ILF vs Formula we have same situation...
Thanks
Good observation. I don't know how he would compensate though. Going up or down limb sizes would be 2". I guess this is how the formula geometry squeezes out performance when comparing the same length limb.
@@bhull302 Looks like, yea
Chart test should be between win&win and hoyt
What's best block or bolt alignment system
Block, much easier to adjust.
Hi Jake, do you reckon 22lb draw weight is sufficient for shooting at 60m or will my arrows just be blow off course?
Seems a bit weak. You have to shoot at least 35lb to become competitive.
I shot 70 with 27lb and while I was shooting the highest of anyone, if I was just better I wouldn't have missed the target as much.
My limiting factor was actually having the correct spined arrows for those limbs
If you're new I would refrain from shooting anything heavier and instead just try to learn on something closer. Otherwise, get something around 35lb at your draw length. I use 28lbs I think and get 37lb at 30inch
@@cam_machi i feel this, i used 22lbs while having a 31-32 inch draw (i am 6ft1) and the arrows u used worked fine, now i shoot 34lbs velos with an xceed and i have no clue where my actual draw weight is at and what spine arrow i should buy
@@cam_machi did you really measure 37lbs at 30 inch draw with 28lbs limbs?
Jake why did string stops for recurves never take off? You did a promo for one and they work for compound, why not recurve?
They do work, Hoyt dropped the ball on the launch plus instructions on how to setup.... also the first versions broke on peoples bow and could have been remedied if I had my hands on them before launch... Hoyt has strict rules on non employees seeing stuff pre-production, which prevents finding flaws IMHO.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery are they not for sale anymore? I'd like to buy a string stop to try it out but I can't seem to find any online.
I have a few sets. What riser are you shooting?
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Gillo gt 31". I'd buy a set from you if you're willing to sell it. Are there any caveats/drawbacks I should be aware of? The physics of a string stop seems like it would clean up the disconnect between the nock and string, especially with a tight nock fit.
@@yevgeniikisarauskas5085 Yo you have one of those?!?! How do you like it? What length limbs do you have on there? What is your draw length? Haha, sorry but you are the first person I have seen post anywhere that actually owns one.
Not a particularly useful idea but this might be a fun one. Is too do a similar video comparing the bow defunct HP geometry and RX geometry. Want to see what the engineers saw in the bow that the consumer archery didn't
Funny thing… I came up with the geometry. It was half adopted by Hoyt. I’ll expand on it, someday hopefully in the near future.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery that's awesome mate. The videos was amazing, lost footage regardless
i dont even care wich one shoots better, i just fucking love the looks of the exceed lmao
omg, i hate when I love original work!!!!
Even in writing...you may not remember exactly how you wrote something, so you have to recreate an inferior version :(
Very interesting :)
Not even archery companies do tests like this to share and advertise lolol
I think they're just slacking
Note that the smoothness is shown at 29" DL. For folks with shorter draw length it might not matter as much.
It would be interesting for Jake to do this on other "low stacking" limbs like uukha, border, super recurve, etc...
The one Brady Ellison uses.
Since you're getting so many Xceeds, why not sell the pink one to me? lol
I actually have the Hoyt Xceed clone (china). I love it. My archery buddy has the real Hoyt Xceed. We cannot find any difference in shooting both.
Glad to see there is more range in poundage than the expected 10%.
I will be making a comparison video soon about the differences of the Xceed and the clone. I will ask @RyanBon to send you the link once it's done.
Knees deep in regionals at the moment so it might not be next week😉
You uhhhh. Selling those risers once you're done with your videos? It's been 6 months and I'm still on back order
Not yet, but one day possibly
I've been waiting for my new Xceed for 2 months now and I see you with one .... HOYT policy pisses me off!! customers go after the pro staff... and then they send you a message to apologize for the delays, really take us for idiots!!!
I've had mine for well over a year. ua-cam.com/video/WE39p1GKcJ0/v-deo.html
FYI when I was prostaff, I had to wait in line like everyone else....
bro he has had it for like a year and i get it is annoying but there is no need to get mad at people. yelling at him wont make your riser come any sooner.
I would recheck with your local seller maybe, I bought an Xi a month ago and received it within a week... (in Europe)
@@weepinangel4485 I don't blame Jake, it's just an observation that I see with the Pro staf at HOYT .. it's hoyt's policy which is not logical,
i love what jake does, i follow him from the start on his channel
I know some one who was waiting 5 months for his Xceed and when they still couldn't deliver the anodised colour he wanted they offered him the painted Ellison "Arizona Desert" colour instead. Which he took becasue he was sick of waiting. The paint job is pretty bad with multiple spots with coverage issues and a massive machining problem on another spot and they still charged the extra for the colour. He's pretty annoyed to say the least.
Apple make bows now?
I'm biased.. That said, I abhor the formula series.. Ilf all the way..
Can u gift me 1 pair of limb i can't able to purchase 😭
Jake, you do some good stuff but, can you edit out the constant repeating the the same things and slightly different ways, again and again. Just do it, don't keep talking about it. Other than that, cool, keep it up.