Timestamps 02:54 ILF basics 08:54 Negatives of being overbowed 10:50 Signs you are ready for more draw weight 13:11 Signs you are overbowed - draw weight 16:49 Signs you are overbowed - mass weight
This is another Kaminski video that feels like Jake's been looking over my shoulder: Just yesterday I ordered limbs 2# heavier than my present ones, having realised (through learning-by-doing last year) that I wasn't ever gonna leap from 28# to 32# limbs in a season without wrecking my already compromised 67-years-old draw-shoulder rotator cuff! Good to be reminded how to use the limb bolts to help manage the transition in the season ahead. So - thanks once again, Jake 👍👍
@@calvinlee3674What was your opinion of the GT? I was looking at that 19" riser, but not sure if the complication is worth it. I'm also of the buy-it-for-life mentality despite extra cost, so curious on the build quality as well.
I shot a 46lb bow over 20 years ago, but coming back after over 20 years away from archery I've started again with a 28lb draw weight and it's working great. I'll see how I feel in a couple of months about going up a few lbs.
I love this sentence : "If the bow is shooting you and not you shooting the bow...", I'll reuse it :). When we are good with the actual draw weight (no shaking, no fatigue...), we should also consider periods with no practice before deciding going to heavier poundage. Personally, if I am confident with my draw weight (around 34lbs) and if I stop shooting during 3 weeks due to many reasons, I am struggling getting back to my draw weight. So I know that I should not go over 34 lbs. In archery, rather listen to our Body than to our Ego before taking any decision... 😉
Thank you for this video, Jake. I have been away from this sport for 50 + years, been racing motocross for + 25 years and currently do power lifting meets, I thought I could get back into it easy enough NOT. I have both of your Books on fitness and tuning both have a wealth of information. I'm fighting this very problem right now, so thanks again for all of you help. Rich
I guess this wont be read as its a year later. But i stupidly started off with a 40lb bow, technich was terrible and burtst a few blood vessel's in my arm..now im using a 20lb bow and getting my form ok...ish..i start my course next moth, was meant to be this month but i put my email in too late. But thankyou for all the knowledge youve helped me with.
Hey Jake, great video mate, thanks for uploading it. I'm a compound archer but I feel a lot of what you said about being over bowed has really given me more confidence in my decision to drop the weight of my new target compound. I dropped 10 lbs because like you said after shooting 30 arrows I was really struggling to draw the bow, hold anchor and get lots of repetitions in. It feels awesome shooting a high poundage bow but it's really doing me no favours when I'm trying to get better at the sport and put up better scores. Thanks again.
Beginner starting archery. Had great fun using the club wood bow to start, could shoot 100+ arrows each session easily with no fatigue. But when I tried the club metal bow, i couldn't shoot more than 50 arrows without my bow arm shoulder raising. The draw weight was fine but the bow weight was simply too heavy even though it was their lightest metal. Thanks so much for mentioning the deltoids, now i know what i need to strengthen.
Jake is a legend: the information he and his wife have provided is superb, so thank you again for the time and energy in providing so much valuable content. Most of all, it's fantastic to have all this presented with such a caring manner. Thank you once again!
I dont see enough archers warm up or stretch before shooting and i think it should really be put in your routine if its not already. For example what happens when you pull cold taffy? It breaks! The same could be said about your muscles, so definitely try it the next time you shoot!
Recently found your channel and really have learned a lot. As a former college swimmer, whitewater canoer, and heavyhander(jogging with handheld weights). I have very strong back and shoulder muscles and can shoot up to 100# pretty easily, but 25 yrs ago I decided that keeping well within what I can easily hold and shoot for hours at a time would be better so I normally shoot 55#. Now in my seventh decade I don’t regret that decision. I also find that when at full draw the weight isn’t much of a consideration between 45#- 75#. I did recently change to the rotational or “C” draw on the advice of a former Olympic archer which turned it to be a blessing when I smashed my collar bone into about five pieces. While trying to get back into archery I learned that the C draw is much easier on your shoulder as well as making it even easier to pull the bow.
Thank you again for the helpful information. I started shooting Asiatic recurves back in may. I went from 25lb at my draw length to 32lbs, then to 57lbs which is what I’ve been shooting since early July. I want to move to a new bow in a couple of weeks, this one measured 74lbs@32”. Just took my 57lb and shot 54 arrows in 30 minutes. I can still keep good form at the end of my session, no shaking and still hit my mark. I’m sore, but not fatigued or hurt, hope I’ll be ready
After decades away from archery, I decided to pick it up again for recreational shooting. The guy at the archery store convinced me that he had the bow that I was looking for. Now I think that he was just trying to off load something that he could not sell. He convinced me to buy a 70lbs Hoyt Dorado. It has caused me shoulder problems and I can’t even draw it once.
Do all limbs measure at the same draw length? My draw is 28 inches. My Win& Win winnex limbs make 35.5 on the fingers and are measured at 34 pounds on a 25 inch riser. My Hoyt limbs show 36 pounds on a 25 inch riser but make the same 35.5 at my draw length with all things being equal. This is on my Hoyt Avalon plus risers as well as the newer Hoyt Arcos risers. I was told once that Win& Win measures at 26 inches. I was also told that Win & Win measure at the minimum tiller bolt setting while Hoyt measures at the middle of the tiller bolt setting. What are your experiences with this?
when you start, your learn the technic attitude, with 18-20# recurve bows (concentration, speed draw, release) if you're a strong teen or an adult, you can take 2# every 6 month so, when you can stay 3 seconds before the release without feeling pain in your shoulder, it's the good draw weight starting with 20, i wen to 22# in 3 months, 3 month later i bought new limbs, now i'm shooting with 28#, because i 'm training twice a week, and i'm a regular crowl swimmer (good complement) and for 18 meters, it's quite fast and precise !
Appreciated this video along with all your others, recently new to archery in any consistency…. Was worried I was pulling more weight than the limbs were marked and couldn’t find any information previously - Jake many thanks from the UK
I've always been against the suggestion of going up in bow weight incrementally. It's a huge moneysink that's better invested in training tools(dumbels, weights, stretching bands) rather then limbs. I'd rather stay at a lowish poundage for a longer time focusing on the shotcyle while strenght training & then shoot up in bow weight to what i want/need. The weights will stick with you for most likely your entire shooting career.
I like stretch tubes that have a specific weight 25# etc as I believe they more closely replicate the drawing of the bow. I can recommend Bob and Brad’s set that has a maximum adjust of 125#. Currently I’m at 35#.
Any rules of thumb for limb weight choices for someone just starting out with recurve? I use a compound bow set at 60 pounds very comfortably, and the bow draw length setting is 29in. I don't have any resources in my city to try the recurve bows out before I purchase so any opinions would be great. As well, any guidance on eventually what poundage I might want to eventually build up to? What might be the minimum pull weight recommended if I want to be competitive at long range shoots?
Generally the draw weight for competitive archers starts from mid-forties. Depending on your physical conditions you may start from low to mid thirties or even from 40#
hi coach, why i felt heavier draw when shooting lighter draw weight barebow comparing to traditional bow. if fact my traditional is 36 lbs and barebow 32 lbs. your corporation is highly appreciated. thanks
Yeah, bow mass has been my big impediment lately. It rose surprisingly sharply after moving on to a target recurve with stabilizers from a wooden club bow. It made shooting feel so much less fun that it's been difficult to get motivated about the physical conditioning to be able to enjoy and practice more again. :/ Maybe barebow recurve with gradually added weights could be one way to make it easier for new archers?
My rule of thumb is: if you can manage to keep your bow arm straight after shot, your physical bow weight is good. More weight is more stable. As simple as that. You will feel tired quicker, maybe you will start shaking quicker (cant aim for to long) etc. You have to find a balance. Do not give up. If you want to have advantage of stabilizers but cant stand to much weight, use as long stabilizer as you can buy and attach less weight to it. Longer stabilizer gives more leverage. Weight of stabilizer itself have less effect than weights attached to it so buy stabilizer as lightweight as possible. Easton Contour CS is lightest I could find at 33".
I am wondering, could you could try some rods that are a bit lighter, but longer to maintain the same balance? I would say that with barebow, you have to add more weight to get the same result since it doesn't have much leverage. It's really pressing the riser into my hand, since I added 11.5oz and my bow still kicks up a bit. I'm a small person, so I will probably need to change my setup to add more stability as adding more weight will be a bit too much at this time. Not an expert, but I do think lighter stabilizers would be easier than barebow from a bow mass-weight perspective. But, I shot without a weight for for the first 8 months of archery, so if you want to join the dark side... :)
Hmm, as I'm still developing and kinda unsure how I best like my stabilizers configured, I have just a set of relatively cheaper Winners SATs (took months to get even those delivered). It's also a pretty clear case of too heavy bow, since the bow arm gets pulled down by the bow post-swing, and I can manage only around 20-30 such reps before bow arm is getting too tired... with lighter club bow I did over 60 arrows before I had to leave for other stuff. But yeah, at this stage it might be ok to have even poorer stabilization, instead of letting the weight bother, as my main goal has been good and consistent technique at very short range (10-15 m) and relatively low poundage (20 lb-ish), first and foremost. At that range, I doubt stabilization will really provide as significant a benefit as with longer ranges. Also, as far as I remember, even using only front stabilizer felt too heavy. Anyway, one of the main reasons I wanted to go for target first was KSL shot cycle and learning a good and safe foundation first, at even longer ranges... to learn at least one thing well, before adventuring into different bow types... so I'm not really against barebow etc. :) But yeah, I'm rambling here... time will tell if i manage to again overcome my bad procrastination habits and get back into the groove, so to speak...
Just don't move from a wooden bow to a metal bow with a full stab setup straight away. Start with the bow, get used to that and then introduce a long rod and then later on the side rods. If you still struggle then honestly you need to do some weight training. I struggled with my bow weight until I took up weight lifting and now it doesn't bother me at all and my bow is pretty heavy.
Look to start off with a lighter mass weight riser, which will increase as barebow weight is applied = risers that are in the 1000 to 1200 gram weight, rather than the usual 1350 gram and above riser weight. For the novice, intermediate, or elder archer, this is where the Gillo GY (32lbs or less holding weight, 1100 grams total riser weight, good youth riser) or GX (42lbs or less holding weight, 1170 grams total riser weight, a fine tournament barebow) risers excel, And their bonus is a full +/- 15% weight increase or reduction in holding weight.
How long should you be a able to hold a bow steady at full draw as an indicator of what lbs to get ??? Ive heard 10 to 15 sec steady, is that correct???
As a compound shooter, I now realize that I am completely over bowed. I had way too much weight on my stabilizers, just because I thought I had to for compound. On 18M indoor, I was dead steady with that weight, assuming I have been able to train on my normal schedule. But going out to 50M or 70M I really struggled to keep the bow still. Gonna take off some weight tomorrow, and see if it's enough.
The original agreement on adjustable limb pockets was the rated poundage was for the limbs bottomed out and the 10% was what could be backed off from there. Has this changed?
Each company rates different. 10% is 10% regardless of where the measurement is taken. However limbs are +/- 1# of marked weight in my experience so in a light weight set of limbs you could already see a variance of 5% from marked without even knowing what distance or limb bolt setting or more importantly geometry it was measured at. Assuming 30# limbs on a Exceed with limb bolts maxed out will weigh the same at the same draw length on any other riser, even a Hoyt will be in the same weight is not a safe bet. I’ve been compiling data on risers and the variance in the geometry from year to year is seemingly random.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery The difference is design versus tolerance. I suggest measuring limbs with the limb bolts all of the way in (max) and then as many turns as is allowed out, at the archers actual draw length and then marking the limbs that way (with a Sharpie). In this manner the archer knows what those limbs are actually, for him/her. I also tend to follow the design specifications when giving instructions because then if a limb is actually defective, it will be being measured as the manuf. intended and thus make your case clearer when you are returning those limbs. And I agree with you completely regarding limbs speccing out differently on different risers (the limb behavior is determined by the angle the limb pocket is on the bow and there is no standard for that parameter. The manufacturers don't check limbs on bows, my understanding is they check limbs by measuring limb deflections to see if they meet tolerances.
26.09” is to the throat of the grip. Other manufactures measure to 28” as AMO draw length which his from the string to the throat plus 1.75”. So the Asian measured stuff is done ~27.84” compared to 28” of everyone else... really close to the same in my experience. I’ll have to do a video on the basics to cover this stuff for sure.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I have no near as much experience as you have for sure. Had 4 pairs of limbs so far. NS #36, SF Elite+ #30, KAP Winstorm II #34, Sanlida X6 #26. While Sanlida is lightest it is only slightly easier to draw than NS and hardest to draw is KAP. But weight scale do not lie, with my 33" draw length NS gives me #53 OTF, KAP 49, SF Elite 46, and Sanlida 42. Perhaps my very long draw length has something to do with it but NS vs KAP while only #2 apart on markings are #4 apart OTF. Great video and looking forward to more about differences between limb from different manufacturers, different raiser geometry etc.
Thanks a lot for this video!, I just got new limbs for my riser (cause I wanted to go up in draw weight), and I was wondering if I just bought limbs that were 2 or 4 pounds more of what I can actually draw correctly, but now that I watched your video about the percentage in the tiller bolts, I think I'll make some adjustements and skip the part where I need to buy another set of limbs 🙂
Thanks, Jake for this very useful video. You made great videos about how to make a customized grip. And it will be nice if you could make a video about how to choose the right bow grip type. What kind of techniques(steps) should I apply(do) to figure out if the low or high grip is the right one? What do you think? 😀
I started shooting around 10 years ago using a 34 pound draw. After two months went up to 40 after trying a friends. Seemed fine to draw and my accuracy was not much difference. Ive ordered a 60lb, just waiting for a new string and stringer. After reading comments on draw weights i think ive made a mistake? ive also ordered arrows suitable for Bow. My question is have i gone way over weight . Having thought about this (i didn't buy this as some macho thing!) Im 53 years and medium build reasonable strong and try to keep fit. I suppose i will not know until i draw the bow.
Heya, I don't know if you found your answer to this. But if not, then yes, it'll be best to check your brace height when making any sort of adjustments. I'm fairly new to archery and I'm currently doing through multiple vids from Jake and others about tuning. I found out that my tiller setting was negative, so after changing it to a positive setting, I had to adjust my brace and nocking height again.
Quick question. How do you know when the limb bolts are "all the way in" or "all the way out"? I read somewhere that you have to measure how many threads you can physically see on the limb bolts when screwing it onto the limb pocket. Some other source says that you have to measure the exact millimeter from the bottom to just underneath the top part of the limb bolt.
That information is usually in the product manual for the riser. If you don't have the manual, you can probably download the pdf from the manufacturer's website. My Hoyt Xceed has a max of 6 full turns.
I would completely remove the tiller bolt and measure it's length. Then download user manuals for the more current WNS risers to see if they have the same tiller bolt dimensions. If you find a riser that has the same tiller bolt dimensions, see what it says in that manual about the max amount of turns. They have probably used the same size tiller bolt for years. Please be careful though. On my riser I can go out by 6 turns, but I've never gone past 5; just to be safe.
Less precise than @xrainbowuk - screw the bolt all the way in. Then unscrew it until it falls out, takiing care to record the number of half-turns it takes go from 'all in' to 'falls out'. Divide the count by 2 . . .
What about being under bowed? I feel it's hard for me to get tension against it for a nice release and follow through with mine, setting off the clicker is really easy, I've tried adjusting it further but it just threw my form to the wind. It's like I can't really brace against the weight at all to build any tension. 24# 28" with a 70" recurve.
what is a minimum draw weight for the 70m in your oppinion, keep in mind im a person with disibilites in a wheelchair. which in it self isnt a problem becouse im strong as an ox but still wondering how much i need to improve in technice and endurance. i currently shooting 28# thank you for your answer.
I found 36lb can reach 70m. Even 28lb; but, the problem is the sights doesn’t lift up far enough. My “solution” was to aim at a tree branch above the target in order to land on the target face. I’m happy with my 32lb, I’m happy at 50m.
You could use a compond bow. They shoot a lot flatter, some have smaller axle to axle lenght, so for a wheel chair person, makes it very easy to handle. Easy to draw back and hold in the valley.
Have a look at the Diamond SB-1 compound. It is a very adjustable bow. You can precisely adjust poundage with an allen key. Also have a look at the Mathews mission craze. It is a smaller and yet very adjustable bow.
Someone at my club can shoot at 70m with 28lb draw weight, they just need to have the sight bar all the way in/most of the way down. They do have carbon limbs and arrows though which I think will make a difference if you don't.
I recently went up from 40..45. 40 is much more comfortable was more for the experience the bit more power isn't worth it personally . I am rookie but ..glad I didn't try leap to 50 definitely cooler hitting targets than searching for arrows..
Stability of the bow arm and how long you take time to aim are big factors in this. If your bow arm is not stable, or you aim for 20 seconds, even 30 lbs can be too much, no matter what you are able to draw. I'm old. I shoot 26lbs in the morning and 45lbs in the evening, cause i simply have more energy after lunch. Or maybe i'm a vampire, who knows, haha.
I have a problem with tennis elbow in my bow arm. If I increase draw weight and or bow mass the pain increases. I’ve been doing flex bar exercises and using a elbow brace which has helped. I have noticed that if I push my bow arm toward the target the pain lessens or goes away. Heather, Jake?
I am in a predicament I have homemade 27" wood riser with 60 lb limbs that i built a tiller system to get them to 45 lb, i think i am around a 28 to 29" draw length not sure so I am planning buying new riser and limbs and want to start at the weight I am pulling now at the low end but if my draw weight is 29 that will mess everything up. So how is the manufactor determine the draw lenght so I can compensate. Any help from Jake or others will be appreciated.
Kinda weird question jake, I'm building an olympic style recurve bow, and the draw weight is about 50lbs @29". The thing is that I have never done archery and I did not know that it is really quite heavy. I'm quite athletic, do you think it's too much to start with or is it possible? Thank you, your videos are amazing!😝
That's not quite heavy, it's REALLY heavy. Olympic archers shoot 50lbs, they train all week long. See if there is a club near and learn archery with club bows before buying anything.
If never done archery you should really start with a draw weight around 22- 24 pound. Its really more fun to get good results from technic then shoot like a monkey with high draw weights.
50lbs at start ? - The best way to damage or even deform your body, bones, muscles... Start with 20lbs... I started with 20, then 26, then 30 and now are 34 lbs and it's perfect (for now, my goal is about 40 off finger). Make a easy test - take a bucket, put in 22l water and pick it up several times (only with 3 fingers - that will be a weight, which you must handling)
So I have some sign of overbow like inconsistent draw length/clicker timing and not have a stamina to shoot more than 2 hours session (I shoot non-ILF 34lbs). But I have no serious fatigueness/soreness and still be able to work and doing daily chores just fine. Could I just stick with draw weight I have and train more with weights and core training? (as in your vids on gym session to increase draw weight)
That's one theory. Another one is that their limbs are measured at a shorter draw length. Never seen anyone be able to confirm either theory. Either way, as a general rule of thumb, Win&Win limbs seem to weigh in two pounds heavier than Western made limbs of the same nominal poundage. The same goes for other Korean brands such as MK and Fivics.
This question has nothing to do with mass bow weight, or draw weight. If you were to get serious about competition which riser/ limb combos would you pick for barebow and olympic recurve ?
I can't remember a practice session when I shot fewer than 130 arrows. why is the 100 arrow threshold so important? My warmup is usually 40 arrows at 20 yards for forms practice before I even get to 40-50-60 yards for the actual practice.
Most people need 35+ to shoot barebow at 50 m with a reasonable aiming point, after that some people are looking for flatter trajectory or higher speeds (less wind drift). Many countries also have specific requirements for hunting bow draw weights.
As someone beginning my archery journey at 54 I would just like to say one thing, thank god for Jake Kaminski
I'm 52 and been doing archery about just over a month. And yes he's been my go to for knowledge.
Right! 51 and 5 months in, here!
Timestamps
02:54 ILF basics
08:54 Negatives of being overbowed
10:50 Signs you are ready for more draw weight
13:11 Signs you are overbowed - draw weight
16:49 Signs you are overbowed - mass weight
You’re hired.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery 😂
This is another Kaminski video that feels like Jake's been looking over my shoulder: Just yesterday I ordered limbs 2# heavier than my present ones, having realised (through learning-by-doing last year) that I wasn't ever gonna leap from 28# to 32# limbs in a season without wrecking my already compromised 67-years-old draw-shoulder rotator cuff! Good to be reminded how to use the limb bolts to help manage the transition in the season ahead.
So - thanks once again, Jake 👍👍
Thank you Jake for correcting a misconception. Now I understand 10% ILF adjustment means 5% in each direction instead of 10%.
I believe it depends on brand in fact
@@calvinlee3674 believe Gillo offers a 30 % adjustment.
@@garymickus6412 Yes I tried both GT and GX, didn't precisely measure it but it won't be far even not 30%
@@garymickus6412 +/- 15%
@@calvinlee3674What was your opinion of the GT? I was looking at that 19" riser, but not sure if the complication is worth it. I'm also of the buy-it-for-life mentality despite extra cost, so curious on the build quality as well.
I shot a 46lb bow over 20 years ago, but coming back after over 20 years away from archery I've started again with a 28lb draw weight and it's working great. I'll see how I feel in a couple of months about going up a few lbs.
I love this sentence : "If the bow is shooting you and not you shooting the bow...", I'll reuse it :).
When we are good with the actual draw weight (no shaking, no fatigue...), we should also consider periods with no practice before deciding going to heavier poundage. Personally, if I am confident with my draw weight (around 34lbs) and if I stop shooting during 3 weeks due to many reasons, I am struggling getting back to my draw weight. So I know that I should not go over 34 lbs. In archery, rather listen to our Body than to our Ego before taking any decision... 😉
Knows what he's talking about this guy, impressed by the advice.
Thank you for this video, Jake. I have been away from this sport for 50 + years, been racing motocross for + 25 years and currently do power lifting meets, I thought I could get back into it easy enough NOT. I have both of your Books on fitness and tuning both have a wealth of information. I'm fighting this very problem right now, so thanks again for all of you help. Rich
Always excellent videos Jake! Thank you!
I guess this wont be read as its a year later. But i stupidly started off with a 40lb bow, technich was terrible and burtst a few blood vessel's in my arm..now im using a 20lb bow and getting my form ok...ish..i start my course next moth, was meant to be this month but i put my email in too late. But thankyou for all the knowledge youve helped me with.
Mission accomplished! You have achieved your goal of making and sharing your archery knowledge on this channel. Another great video. Thanks.
Hey Jake, great video mate, thanks for uploading it. I'm a compound archer but I feel a lot of what you said about being over bowed has really given me more confidence in my decision to drop the weight of my new target compound. I dropped 10 lbs because like you said after shooting 30 arrows I was really struggling to draw the bow, hold anchor and get lots of repetitions in. It feels awesome shooting a high poundage bow but it's really doing me no favours when I'm trying to get better at the sport and put up better scores. Thanks again.
Beginner starting archery. Had great fun using the club wood bow to start, could shoot 100+ arrows each session easily with no fatigue. But when I tried the club metal bow, i couldn't shoot more than 50 arrows without my bow arm shoulder raising. The draw weight was fine but the bow weight was simply too heavy even though it was their lightest metal. Thanks so much for mentioning the deltoids, now i know what i need to strengthen.
So many great takeaways from this video! Thank you for posting this!
Jake is a legend: the information he and his wife have provided is superb, so thank you again for the time and energy in providing so much valuable content. Most of all, it's fantastic to have all this presented with such a caring manner. Thank you once again!
I dont see enough archers warm up or stretch before shooting and i think it should really be put in your routine if its not already. For example what happens when you pull cold taffy? It breaks! The same could be said about your muscles, so definitely try it the next time you shoot!
100%! Agreed whole heartedly. Plus if you warm up, your performance is ON right away with very little time wasted on getting into the rhythm.
Recently found your channel and really have learned a lot. As a former college swimmer, whitewater canoer, and heavyhander(jogging with handheld weights). I have very strong back and shoulder muscles and can shoot up to 100# pretty easily, but 25 yrs ago I decided that keeping well within what I can easily hold and shoot for hours at a time would be better so I normally shoot 55#. Now in my seventh decade I don’t regret that decision. I also find that when at full draw the weight isn’t much of a consideration between 45#- 75#. I did recently change to the rotational or “C” draw on the advice of a former Olympic archer which turned it to be a blessing when I smashed my collar bone into about five pieces. While trying to get back into archery I learned that the C draw is much easier on your shoulder as well as making it even easier to pull the bow.
Thank you again for the helpful information.
I started shooting Asiatic recurves back in may.
I went from 25lb at my draw length to 32lbs, then to 57lbs which is what I’ve been shooting since early July.
I want to move to a new bow in a couple of weeks, this one measured 74lbs@32”.
Just took my 57lb and shot 54 arrows in 30 minutes.
I can still keep good form at the end of my session, no shaking and still hit my mark.
I’m sore, but not fatigued or hurt, hope I’ll be ready
After decades away from archery, I decided to pick it up again for recreational shooting. The guy at the archery store convinced me that he had the bow that I was looking for. Now I think that he was just trying to off load something that he could not sell. He convinced me to buy a 70lbs Hoyt Dorado. It has caused me shoulder problems and I can’t even draw it once.
Thats very unfortunate.
Do all limbs measure at the same draw length? My draw is 28 inches. My Win& Win winnex limbs make 35.5 on the fingers and are measured at 34 pounds on a 25 inch riser. My Hoyt limbs show 36 pounds on a 25 inch riser but make the same 35.5 at my draw length with all things being equal. This is on my Hoyt Avalon plus risers as well as the newer Hoyt Arcos risers. I was told once that Win& Win measures at 26 inches. I was also told that Win & Win measure at the minimum tiller bolt setting while Hoyt measures at the middle of the tiller bolt setting. What are your experiences with this?
when you start, your learn the technic attitude, with 18-20# recurve bows (concentration, speed draw, release)
if you're a strong teen or an adult, you can take 2# every 6 month
so, when you can stay 3 seconds before the release without feeling pain in your shoulder, it's the good draw weight
starting with 20, i wen to 22# in 3 months, 3 month later i bought new limbs, now i'm shooting with 28#, because i 'm training twice a week, and i'm a regular crowl swimmer (good complement)
and for 18 meters, it's quite fast and precise !
Good advice if you can afford new limbs. Maybe used ones can be a less expensive alternative.
Dang, I bought 30# after shooting 20#. Looks like it's too much. Will see when I receive the limbs.
One of my concerns about going up in draw weight is the need (cost) to replace arrows.
I learn a lot from every one of your videos. 👍
Appreciated this video along with all your others, recently new to archery in any consistency…. Was worried I was pulling more weight than the limbs were marked and couldn’t find any information previously - Jake many thanks from the UK
Any hint on how many ounces of mass weight per pound of draw weight?. Just to try to narrow down a bit more how to start or have a reference…
Amazing info Jake....many thanks
Thanks for this video! This was so helpful!
I've always been against the suggestion of going up in bow weight incrementally. It's a huge moneysink that's better invested in training tools(dumbels, weights, stretching bands) rather then limbs. I'd rather stay at a lowish poundage for a longer time focusing on the shotcyle while strenght training & then shoot up in bow weight to what i want/need. The weights will stick with you for most likely your entire shooting career.
I like stretch tubes that have a specific weight 25# etc as I believe they more closely replicate the drawing of the bow. I can recommend Bob and Brad’s set that has a maximum adjust of 125#. Currently I’m at 35#.
Any rules of thumb for limb weight choices for someone just starting out with recurve? I use a compound bow set at 60 pounds very comfortably, and the bow draw length setting is 29in. I don't have any resources in my city to try the recurve bows out before I purchase so any opinions would be great.
As well, any guidance on eventually what poundage I might want to eventually build up to?
What might be the minimum pull weight recommended if I want to be competitive at long range shoots?
Generally the draw weight for competitive archers starts from mid-forties. Depending on your physical conditions you may start from low to mid thirties or even from 40#
Thanks for mentioning "if it's not tp"
So the same checks on a blank bale/blind bale will suffice
hi coach, why i felt heavier draw when shooting lighter draw weight barebow comparing to traditional bow.
if fact my traditional is 36 lbs and barebow 32 lbs.
your corporation is highly appreciated. thanks
Yeah, bow mass has been my big impediment lately.
It rose surprisingly sharply after moving on to a target recurve with stabilizers from a wooden club bow.
It made shooting feel so much less fun that it's been difficult to get motivated about the physical conditioning to be able to enjoy and practice more again. :/
Maybe barebow recurve with gradually added weights could be one way to make it easier for new archers?
My rule of thumb is: if you can manage to keep your bow arm straight after shot, your physical bow weight is good. More weight is more stable. As simple as that. You will feel tired quicker, maybe you will start shaking quicker (cant aim for to long) etc. You have to find a balance. Do not give up. If you want to have advantage of stabilizers but cant stand to much weight, use as long stabilizer as you can buy and attach less weight to it. Longer stabilizer gives more leverage. Weight of stabilizer itself have less effect than weights attached to it so buy stabilizer as lightweight as possible. Easton Contour CS is lightest I could find at 33".
I am wondering, could you could try some rods that are a bit lighter, but longer to maintain the same balance?
I would say that with barebow, you have to add more weight to get the same result since it doesn't have much leverage. It's really pressing the riser into my hand, since I added 11.5oz and my bow still kicks up a bit. I'm a small person, so I will probably need to change my setup to add more stability as adding more weight will be a bit too much at this time.
Not an expert, but I do think lighter stabilizers would be easier than barebow from a bow mass-weight perspective. But, I shot without a weight for for the first 8 months of archery, so if you want to join the dark side... :)
Hmm, as I'm still developing and kinda unsure how I best like my stabilizers configured, I have just a set of relatively cheaper Winners SATs (took months to get even those delivered).
It's also a pretty clear case of too heavy bow, since the bow arm gets pulled down by the bow post-swing, and I can manage only around 20-30 such reps before bow arm is getting too tired... with lighter club bow I did over 60 arrows before I had to leave for other stuff.
But yeah, at this stage it might be ok to have even poorer stabilization, instead of letting the weight bother, as my main goal has been good and consistent technique at very short range (10-15 m) and relatively low poundage (20 lb-ish), first and foremost.
At that range, I doubt stabilization will really provide as significant a benefit as with longer ranges.
Also, as far as I remember, even using only front stabilizer felt too heavy.
Anyway, one of the main reasons I wanted to go for target first was KSL shot cycle and learning a good and safe foundation first, at even longer ranges... to learn at least one thing well, before adventuring into different bow types... so I'm not really against barebow etc. :)
But yeah, I'm rambling here... time will tell if i manage to again overcome my bad procrastination habits and get back into the groove, so to speak...
Just don't move from a wooden bow to a metal bow with a full stab setup straight away. Start with the bow, get used to that and then introduce a long rod and then later on the side rods. If you still struggle then honestly you need to do some weight training. I struggled with my bow weight until I took up weight lifting and now it doesn't bother me at all and my bow is pretty heavy.
Look to start off with a lighter mass weight riser, which will increase as barebow weight is applied = risers that are in the 1000 to 1200 gram weight, rather than the usual 1350 gram and above riser weight. For the novice, intermediate, or elder archer, this is where the Gillo GY (32lbs or less holding weight, 1100 grams total riser weight, good youth riser) or GX (42lbs or less holding weight, 1170 grams total riser weight, a fine tournament barebow) risers excel, And their bonus is a full +/- 15% weight increase or reduction in holding weight.
how about pain in the outer elbow on your bow arm how a can i correct that? thanks jake
Thank you for your explanations. It's help me a lot.
How long should you be a able to hold a bow steady at full draw as an indicator of what lbs to get ???
Ive heard 10 to 15 sec steady, is that correct???
As a compound shooter, I now realize that I am completely over bowed. I had way too much weight on my stabilizers, just because I thought I had to for compound. On 18M indoor, I was dead steady with that weight, assuming I have been able to train on my normal schedule. But going out to 50M or 70M I really struggled to keep the bow still. Gonna take off some weight tomorrow, and see if it's enough.
The original agreement on adjustable limb pockets was the rated poundage was for the limbs bottomed out and the 10% was what could be backed off from there. Has this changed?
Each company rates different. 10% is 10% regardless of where the measurement is taken. However limbs are +/- 1# of marked weight in my experience so in a light weight set of limbs you could already see a variance of 5% from marked without even knowing what distance or limb bolt setting or more importantly geometry it was measured at. Assuming 30# limbs on a Exceed with limb bolts maxed out will weigh the same at the same draw length on any other riser, even a Hoyt will be in the same weight is not a safe bet.
I’ve been compiling data on risers and the variance in the geometry from year to year is seemingly random.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery The difference is design versus tolerance. I suggest measuring limbs with the limb bolts all of the way in (max) and then as many turns as is allowed out, at the archers actual draw length and then marking the limbs that way (with a Sharpie). In this manner the archer knows what those limbs are actually, for him/her.
I also tend to follow the design specifications when giving instructions because then if a limb is actually defective, it will be being measured as the manuf. intended and thus make your case clearer when you are returning those limbs.
And I agree with you completely regarding limbs speccing out differently on different risers (the limb behavior is determined by the angle the limb pocket is on the bow and there is no standard for that parameter. The manufacturers don't check limbs on bows, my understanding is they check limbs by measuring limb deflections to see if they meet tolerances.
Without a question of doubt "over bowing" is a major deal breaker for any archery discipline.
WiaWis top shelf limbs (NS depicted included) are marked at 26.09" draw length so #30 are more like #34 at 28" DL.
26.09” is to the throat of the grip. Other manufactures measure to 28” as AMO draw length which his from the string to the throat plus 1.75”. So the Asian measured stuff is done ~27.84” compared to 28” of everyone else... really close to the same in my experience. I’ll have to do a video on the basics to cover this stuff for sure.
Good question and answer, as I had previously thought W&W/WNS measured to 26" too until recently, until I understood the difference why.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I have no near as much experience as you have for sure. Had 4 pairs of limbs so far. NS #36, SF Elite+ #30, KAP Winstorm II #34, Sanlida X6 #26. While Sanlida is lightest it is only slightly easier to draw than NS and hardest to draw is KAP. But weight scale do not lie, with my 33" draw length NS gives me #53 OTF, KAP 49, SF Elite 46, and Sanlida 42. Perhaps my very long draw length has something to do with it but NS vs KAP while only #2 apart on markings are #4 apart OTF.
Great video and looking forward to more about differences between limb from different manufacturers, different raiser geometry etc.
If u use different style of archery like englaih long bow, u can draw high with different form
Thanks a lot for this video!, I just got new limbs for my riser (cause I wanted to go up in draw weight), and I was wondering if I just bought limbs that were 2 or 4 pounds more of what I can actually draw correctly, but now that I watched your video about the percentage in the tiller bolts, I think I'll make some adjustements and skip the part where I need to buy another set of limbs 🙂
Thanks, Jake for this very useful video. You made great videos about how to make a customized grip. And it will be nice if you could make a video about how to choose the right bow grip type. What kind of techniques(steps) should I apply(do) to figure out if the low or high grip is the right one? What do you think? 😀
I started shooting around 10 years ago using a 34 pound draw. After two months went up to 40 after trying a friends. Seemed fine to draw and my accuracy was not much difference. Ive ordered a 60lb, just waiting for a new string and stringer.
After reading comments on draw weights i think ive made a mistake? ive also ordered arrows suitable for Bow.
My question is have i gone way over weight . Having thought about this (i didn't buy this as some macho thing!)
Im 53 years and medium build reasonable strong and try to keep fit.
I suppose i will not know until i draw the bow.
This was very informative. Thank you.
Question: if I am moving my tiller bolts in or out, do I have to modify my brace height as well?
Heya, I don't know if you found your answer to this. But if not, then yes, it'll be best to check your brace height when making any sort of adjustments.
I'm fairly new to archery and I'm currently doing through multiple vids from Jake and others about tuning. I found out that my tiller setting was negative, so after changing it to a positive setting, I had to adjust my brace and nocking height again.
Quick question. How do you know when the limb bolts are "all the way in" or "all the way out"? I read somewhere that you have to measure how many threads you can physically see on the limb bolts when screwing it onto the limb pocket. Some other source says that you have to measure the exact millimeter from the bottom to just underneath the top part of the limb bolt.
That information is usually in the product manual for the riser. If you don't have the manual, you can probably download the pdf from the manufacturer's website.
My Hoyt Xceed has a max of 6 full turns.
@@RainbowArcher252 unfortunately, I have an entry-level, discontinued riser from WNS. It doesn't come with any manual. So.. tough luck?
I would completely remove the tiller bolt and measure it's length. Then download user manuals for the more current WNS risers to see if they have the same tiller bolt dimensions. If you find a riser that has the same tiller bolt dimensions, see what it says in that manual about the max amount of turns.
They have probably used the same size tiller bolt for years. Please be careful though. On my riser I can go out by 6 turns, but I've never gone past 5; just to be safe.
Less precise than @xrainbowuk - screw the bolt all the way in. Then unscrew it until it falls out, takiing care to record the number of half-turns it takes go from 'all in' to 'falls out'. Divide the count by 2 . . .
@@RainbowArcher252 I couldn't find anything on the tiller/limb bolt on their website or newe model's manuals either..
Would it be possible to shoot longer distances accurately with a ridiculously low GPP? Instead of increasing bow weight.
What about being under bowed?
I feel it's hard for me to get tension against it for a nice release and follow through with mine, setting off the clicker is really easy, I've tried adjusting it further but it just threw my form to the wind.
It's like I can't really brace against the weight at all to build any tension.
24# 28" with a 70" recurve.
what is a minimum draw weight for the 70m in your oppinion, keep in mind im a person with disibilites in a wheelchair. which in it self isnt a problem becouse im strong as an ox but still wondering how much i need to improve in technice and endurance. i currently shooting 28# thank you for your answer.
I found 36lb can reach 70m. Even 28lb; but, the problem is the sights doesn’t lift up far enough.
My “solution” was to aim at a tree branch above the target in order to land on the target face.
I’m happy with my 32lb, I’m happy at 50m.
You could use a compond bow. They shoot a lot flatter, some have smaller axle to axle lenght, so for a wheel chair person, makes it very easy to handle.
Easy to draw back and hold in the valley.
Have a look at the Diamond SB-1 compound. It is a very adjustable bow. You can precisely adjust poundage with an allen key.
Also have a look at the Mathews mission craze. It is a smaller and yet very adjustable bow.
Someone at my club can shoot at 70m with 28lb draw weight, they just need to have the sight bar all the way in/most of the way down. They do have carbon limbs and arrows though which I think will make a difference if you don't.
Hi, I shoot 60 yards with my 24# limbs, so would of thought with the extra 4# 70 metres would be doable. I have reversed my sight and have uukha limbs
I recently went up from 40..45. 40 is much more comfortable was more for the experience the bit more power isn't worth it personally . I am rookie but ..glad I didn't try leap to 50 definitely cooler hitting targets than searching for arrows..
Stability of the bow arm and how long you take time to aim are big factors in this. If your bow arm is not stable, or you aim for 20 seconds, even 30 lbs can be too much, no matter what you are able to draw.
I'm old. I shoot 26lbs in the morning and 45lbs in the evening, cause i simply have more energy after lunch. Or maybe i'm a vampire, who knows, haha.
It’s definitely the vampire.
I have a problem with tennis elbow in my bow arm. If I increase draw weight and or bow mass the pain increases. I’ve been doing flex bar exercises and using a elbow brace which has helped. I have noticed that if I push my bow arm toward the target the pain lessens or goes away. Heather, Jake?
If I was you, I’d go to a PT or Massage therapist and have them check out my triceps. Tennis elbow’s #1 cause is triceps tightness.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thank you!
Does anyone know how to "reset" the tillers to factory settings in ATF-X. I was playing with tillers and forgot how many turns I made, so I ask.
I am in a predicament I have homemade 27" wood riser with 60 lb limbs that i built a tiller system to get them to 45 lb, i think i am around a 28 to 29" draw length not sure so I am planning buying new riser and limbs and want to start at the weight I am pulling now at the low end but if my draw weight is 29 that will mess everything up. So how is the manufactor determine the draw lenght so I can compensate. Any help from Jake or others will be appreciated.
Thank you
Kinda weird question jake, I'm building an olympic style recurve bow, and the draw weight is about 50lbs @29".
The thing is that I have never done archery and I did not know that it is really quite heavy.
I'm quite athletic, do you think it's too much to start with or is it possible?
Thank you, your videos are amazing!😝
That's not quite heavy, it's REALLY heavy. Olympic archers shoot 50lbs, they train all week long. See if there is a club near and learn archery with club bows before buying anything.
If never done archery you should really start with a draw weight around 22- 24 pound. Its really more fun to get good results from technic then shoot like a monkey with high draw weights.
50lbs at start ? - The best way to damage or even deform your body, bones, muscles...
Start with 20lbs... I started with 20, then 26, then 30 and now are 34 lbs and it's perfect (for now, my goal is about 40 off finger).
Make a easy test - take a bucket, put in 22l water and pick it up several times (only with 3 fingers - that will be a weight, which you must handling)
@@Skarbona15 1 gallon of water = 8pounds
@@RogelioGify Pretty sure, I just converted it into liters (couse Europe)
how or where con a person get longer arrows, my draw length is 36"" ?.
How is it possible? Looks like there's something wrong with how you measured it
So I have some sign of overbow like inconsistent draw length/clicker timing and not have a stamina to shoot more than 2 hours session (I shoot non-ILF 34lbs). But I have no serious fatigueness/soreness and still be able to work and doing daily chores just fine. Could I just stick with draw weight I have and train more with weights and core training? (as in your vids on gym session to increase draw weight)
So if im drawing limb's of 34lbs,,,,and my draw length is 27/ half does this mean im drawing nearly 37 lbs in total,,,,look forward to your replys
GMX 27" is so hard to find now. You can find 25s easy enough.
How about under bow
This is what I heard: W&W limb is weighed when the bolt all the way out, Hoyt limb is weighed when bolt is in the middle.
True or false?
That's one theory. Another one is that their limbs are measured at a shorter draw length. Never seen anyone be able to confirm either theory. Either way, as a general rule of thumb, Win&Win limbs seem to weigh in two pounds heavier than Western made limbs of the same nominal poundage. The same goes for other Korean brands such as MK and Fivics.
@@rickardbrinck2886 I believe they had it on their website at some point but cant find it at the moment.
This question has nothing to do with mass bow weight, or draw weight. If you were to get serious about competition which riser/ limb combos would you pick for barebow and olympic recurve ?
This is like asking a race car driver what his engineering team did to his car. You gotta figure it out for yourself bud 😉
It turns out I'm over-bowed. 😀
I have GPX. Don’t want it?
I don’t need it, but if you ever come to florida I’d like to get some measurements off it!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery That's some long trip from Poland, but i don't say no. Maybe i'll see you ;)
have 20 30 40
Oh! That's neat! Over a 100 huh... I shoot those in like 1.5hrs I can finally up my poundage! XD
sky archery
I can't remember a practice session when I shot fewer than 130 arrows. why is the 100 arrow threshold so important? My warmup is usually 40 arrows at 20 yards for forms practice before I even get to 40-50-60 yards for the actual practice.
Messaged you on discord re the 25" RX
I went from 30 to 36... whoops.
Erm - apart from stroking their own egos, why exactly does *anybody ever* need to go up in draw weight? 🤔
Most people need 35+ to shoot barebow at 50 m with a reasonable aiming point, after that some people are looking for flatter trajectory or higher speeds (less wind drift). Many countries also have specific requirements for hunting bow draw weights.
Come back. Only listen to the people who have your best interest in their mind.